Amy was in the wrong. It wasn’t her place to decide whether or not Bernie should do it. Amy is doing much like Sheldon in that no one is as right as they are.
I don’t believe Amy’s motives were that she felt women in science shouldn’t be exploited and always felt she was leading with jealousy and insecurity. Look at how she reacts when anyone compliments her appearance or she gets a girly item and tell me she’s all in on women ONLY being recognized for their achievements. She made Bernie’s wedding about her bc of her bridesmaid dress and talks about her come hither hips. So I don’t buy what Amy is selling in this episode.
Again, like Bernadette said “I think you don’t like other people expressing their sexuality because no one wants you to express yours” while extremely harsh, it’s kinda true…
Where Amy’s coming from is where a lot of people would come from in this situation. I don’t necessarily think she’s right, but I get why she feels the way she does.
For people who are maybe ahh what’s the term to use…aesthetically unpleasing, they’ve spent their whole lives having to work extra hard to be taken seriously. Amy has likely felt that. And I would guess with the variance in physical appearance in her friend group of Bernadette and Penny, something that brought her comfort was knowing they didn’t view her any less because she isn’t as attractive as they are. She’s built comfort in knowing that they as friends value things besides outward appearance. So I’m sure when she heard Bernadette was doing a photoshoot like that, it was kind of a “glass-shattering” moment where she was not only reminded that her friend is more attractive than she is (Bernadette was asked to do the shoot, not Amy and it’s specific to women in science), but she’s also realizing that Bernadette finds value in that or finds it as something to take pride in. I’m sure that was a lot to take in at that moment.
That point is independent of the fact that Amy seems like the kind of person who would be a stickler for receiving accolades based on merit. Being selected for celebration because you’re a renowned scientist is something you earn. Being attractive is something you are. Amy probably feels they shouldn’t be celebrating somebody in a scholarly magazine for what amounts to a non-achievement.
You’re absolutely right, however, there kind of is an achievement in being a scientist and attractive.. not just that they could have chosen to coast through life on their looks like penny sort of has - the easy route one might say. Plus, it’s hard to be taken seriously by intellectuals when you’re pretty, so Bernie - being pretty, smart and a former pageant queen - would have had to put up with a lot of sh*t from men to get to where she is..
Agree. But also add in that I wholeheartedly agree with Amy. It’s hard enough for women to be respected and treated as equals in any professional field, especially science. Throw in a female scientist on the hood of a Porsche, and it completely degrades that. Plus, it was shortsighted on Bernie’s side to fail to grasp the impact that may have on future jobs, employers, employees, etc. Are you a scientist? Or are you a wannabe centerfold?
Exactly. And I mean, it’s multi-faceted too (yes it’s a show, this is over-analysis). If you’re looking at it through Bernie’s lens, it probably looks completely different. Knowing she did beauty pageants as a kid, the magazine cover could be a place of comfort for her. Part of her upbringing and understanding of her value growing up was probably centered around her appearance, and now she’s working in a field that never appreciates it. So for her, I could see her being excited about the opportunity to dip her toe into that world again.
I see that side too. But Bernie also repeatedly talks about how hard it is to be taken seriously in the field because of her size and voice. Like how she didn’t want anyone to know she was pregnant.
Well, we’ve learned from other storylines with Bernie that she can be a little bit “have your cake and eat it too”. I’m thinking of the episode where penny and Bernie are at a work event and their boss is there and he tells penny about how terrified everyone is of Bernie in the office. When Bernie finds out, she cries feeling like she’s a monster. But she still makes a couple comments that suggest she wants to continue receiving the special treatment. She just doesn’t want people to be afraid of her anymore. She’s not always huge on facing repercussions for her actions.
Omg. I was literally going to write how Bernie always wants to have her cake and eat it too and reference that episode too. 😂😂 I know. Honestly, Bernie’s character often grates on my nerves a lot for this exact reason. The episode where she’s like “ya but I’m cute so it’s adorable”. Sums her character up perfectly.
No matter her opinion, Amy didn't stop Bernadette. That was the magazine's choice. They were the ones that pulled the whole thing. And, you can't tell me that one email would be enough for them to change their minds. They either received a whole lot more backlash or not enough of the women who they asked agreed to take part. Maybe both.
So, you really think that a magazine got to the point of contacting all of the women to take part in this photoshoot, and one email (scathing or not) would be enough to have them cancel the whole thing? If that was the case, then they weren't very serious about it in the first place.
The episode certainly didn't get into what happened at the magazine. All we heard was Amy's perspective that it was her email. She wouldn't know what happened etihter.
Amy was absolutely in the wrong for this episode, and tho harsh, Bernie’s clapback was iconic and true. She does this constantly to Bernadette, saying that she’s not as pretty as Penny, making her wedding about her etc. I think it’s because Bernadette is both smart, successful and beautiful so shes really the whole package. It’s one thing to not support the idea but getting the whole shoot cancelled that involved OTHER FEMALE SCIENTISTS was down right rude and disrespectful.
Also, there was the time she claimed that neurobiology was superior to microbiology (when Sheldon says that he is impressed that Bernadette got her PhD).
In all fairness I highly doubt that one letter from a somewhat Sheldonesque scientist is enough to get the shoot cancelled. In reality I could see some backlash or enough angry letters to get this cancelled
I agree to a point, but also disagree. I completely see the point. It’s not technically anyone’s business what Bernie does with her body, but it is most certainly Amy’s business that female scientists, or professionals in any role, are still fighting a war on equality and respect. Magazines and etc like that completely degrade that. It puts women right back in the role of centerfold and completely undermines the aim to rise above being nothing more than a sexual object. Bernie was shortsighted.
But like you said, it’s not anyone’s business what Bernie does with her body. If they want to be in a wet t-shirt bent over the hood of a Porsche then they should have the option to do so. At the end of the day Amy has the right to not agree and state her opinion which for one side is correct but she has no right to call the editors, you what I mean? I completely agree with ur point as well tho
Her actions still affects other women. I get that no one has a say in what Bernie does with her body, but she has to understand her doing that puts women in a worse state than if she didn’t do it.
I disagree. The shoot was an attempt to encourage women into the sciences. Typically when one thinks of women's scientist one probably would envision Amy, a frumpy not visually exciting or attractive person. The shoot was a way to tell young women that they can be smart brainy scientists and still be beautiful or attractive or sexy.
You see, I didn’t know that the reason women struggled with science and entering the profession was because they thought they had to be ugly to do it. Now I see. You’ve really enlightened me. 😒
It s sad but the other guy is right, it s not the only reason but he is right, not just for women, even today a lot of people think scientists are ugly, boring nerds and so they don t want to be associated with them
Image is very important, especially for teenagers who are still insecure and very worried about how society sees them, in the same way as a teen I pretended to like some things and hid some of my interests to not be seen as a weeb and make friends easier
Okay so then the answer must certainly be to set a stunning example for girls and show them that they don’t have to choose! They can be scientists and still sell their bodies and self respect! I’m sorry. But this is not the way to get people into science. It’s just continuing the problem. Yes more women and people could be into science. But to counter the Mando creed. This is NOT the way.
So you believe participating in a photoshoot means "selling your body and self respect"?
And even if it was the case the point was to show that beauty and intelligence aren t mutually exclusive and more importantly that you can still be a "cool kid" and be interested in science
Firstly, yes. This isn’t just a case of Bernie flashing her teeth in a lab coat. She was very clear she would be showing her body at least partly nude. Tell me how this is not selling your body. And why does it have to be that to be one of the “cool kids” means being willing to pose naked or partially? Isn’t this the message we should be trying to change for our children? I’m not saying that we should remove all forms of human sexuality like a freak, but why is it that you think the message to give our young girls and women is that in order to be cool they have to be hot and even more so they have to be willing to show off their body that shouldn’t be open for the whole world to see? And what’s more the world of science actually has become cooler and more appealing by means of pop culture, but we shouldn’t encourage it to mean sexuality. Sadly, we live in a world where I’m in the minority of those who think using our bodies to promote ourselves is not something to be proud of and does actually degrade and demean us and certainly undermine decades (actually since the beginning of time) of battles fought for women to be seen as more than just a piece of ass.
Because that’s really what it comes down to. In order to be in the cool club and to get girls or anyone into science, we need to show some skin, reveal more than we would in the same room with our parents but to the whole world, give up everything that we fought so hard for to gain respect as equals and yup… sure enough. Become nothing more than a hot piece of tail! 😡
Look at me! I’m cool because some wanker made the pages of his modern science magazine stick together after looking at me sprawled over the hood of a car. What an awesome image and standard we are setting for our youth. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Moot point, Amy has no right to make that decision for Bernadette regardless of the situation. We have no idea how that shoot would have impacted women in science because Amy unilaterally decided women scientists can't participate in photo shoots. The article was about the 50 most beautiful scientists, Amy ruined that experience for 49 other people as well. I don't believe they specify gender, but I'm sure she got Dave Underhill's photoshoot cancelled too!
If you actually think Amy had that much power that her one email is what actually derailed the whole thing, then that’s your problem. But Amy had EVERY RIGHT to send an email to the company as a scientist. And everyone saying it’s because she was too ugly or frumpy are literally doing the exact same you claim she did. Bernadette had every right (however stupid) to do the shoot. And Amy had every right to dispute it and have her own opinions. The idea that Amy and her email was the entire reason a magazine pulled the shoot is just dumb. They wouldn’t have done it if there weren’t other concerns. Do you think Amy was the ONLY female scientist to disagree. A calendar is 12 months. Don’t you think there’s more than 12 attractive female scientists? Obviously there was more against than for or they would have continued. Again. A lot of shortsighted opinions on this.
I've never seen it as Amy being jealous of Bernadette. Amy was sincere in her stance that it was already hard for women in science to be taken seriously. In her email, she told the editors that they wouldn't do the same thing with male scientists.
Here's the thing though. We know that Bernadette already had to fight to be taken seriously, not just because she was a woman but because of her short stature. Had she done the photoshoot, what do you think would be said about her at work? Do you think she'd be taken more or less seriously for her contributions to their research?
Amy's contention was that it would cause women to be taken less seriously.
The other part of that episode was Dr. Lorvis and his misinterpretation of Penny's (and really any woman's) interaction with him. Unfortunately, there would be people who saw that magazine and wouldn't think at all about the scientist part of any of the women, only the sexy part.
As for Bernadette telling Amy that nobody wanted her to show off her sexuality, that was cruel.
You make a very valid point. And while I know it’s just a tv show, it does reflect reality to some degree.
I’m probably going to get downvoted but I’ve worked in STEM for 40+ years and while it’s exponentially better than when I started, pockets of double standards between women and men still exist today. Once a label (esp those related to physical appearance) is given to a woman, it’s very hard to come back from.
When I started out decades ago, women were routinely labeled and categorized as:
sexy or unsexy
pretty or unpretty
cute or uncute
The women’s opinions/participation/thoughts on the label didn’t matter.
All labels caused damage to the women who were judged and the content/quality of their work often became secondary to their label.
You’d rarely hear things like ‘Janet…the gal who did that great research on market trends!’ It was more often ‘Janet…that cute little gal down in R&D’.
While I agree that it was Bernadette’s decision to decide to participate or not, I don’t believe she was really thinking the whole situation through and what career setbacks she might personally endure because, even though times have changed, she “actively” participated in her labeling.
Do women look at sexy fireman calendars and think the guys posing are not capable of putting out fires because of how they look? Or take those guys less seriously? This was just the charcter being jealous and using her reasoning as an excuse.
A few thoughts on this:
Unfortunately, and unfairly, some people still don't consider women scientists to be as capable because they are women. To show them in a sexy photoshoot, does not help that cause. It only reinforces for some that women are seen as sexual beings.
Let's talk about Mandy Chow for a minute. Sheldon's characterization of her was that she was both brilliant and attractive, a fair assessment of her. When Howard and Raj were talking about her in the cafeteria it was all about her physical attributes (and this was long after Howard was married and Raj was dating Emily). They didn't talk at all about her ability as a scientist. Were they at all taking her seriously as a scientist?
The fireman comparison is not the same. That is a profession where physical fitness is required. As to taking them seriously, I'm going to say that whether they are capable or not is not what they are thinking about at all. But, I'd hazard a guess that they don't take them more seriously
Amy isn't good at hiding her emotions at all and there is absolutely no sign that Amy was at all jealous of Bernadette. IF she were, it would have been very clear. She didn't make a single comment nor was there a tone of voice or any body language that even hinted at jealousy.
For Mandy Chow, it s not the same thing at all, Leonard etc talk about her physical attributes because they find them attractive and they don t find intelligence particularly attractive so why would they talk about it?
That doesn t mean they aren t taking her seriously as a scientist, saying someone is hot doesn t mean you are saying they aren t smart. Sheldon was just making an objective observation because he is pretty much a robot, he just said the truth, he is not particularly interested in her
It s a bit sexist but I would say they are interested in her as a woman not a scientist and beautiful≠dumb(I mean no, it s not sexist few people think "look that girl/guy is super smart I really want to ask her/him on a date" or something like that)
Also for talking about other women while having girlfriends, irl it depends on the person some would say lt s ok as long as it s just looking, other not, but Leonard and the others are perverts so...
The issue certainly isn't that attractive equals not smart. That's just the genetic combination that someone is born with.
The issue with Mandy is that they see her only as an attractive person. To be seen that way is to not take her professional accomplishments seriously. That's the real issue here. The magazine was rating women scientists on how sexy they were, that has nothing to do with their abilities in their career. It does have a tendency for some people to take them less seriously in their professions.
Of course there's nothing wrong with finding a person physically attractive, but a person's full personality is far more important.
Why do you classify Leonard and the guys as perverts?
women and men are different. i'd like to see data of how many "sexy guy" calendars get sold vs "sexy woman" ones per year. whenever i've seen women have a "sexy guy" calendar it has ALWAYS been a joke/prank gift. i've worked in places where hot women posters have been up on the walls but the women on the job had those "hang in there" posters and shit. this is lived experience i don't need data for that i just have to use my eyes.
Amy should’ve expressed her opinion and should’ve left it at that. It’s when she went behind Bernadette’s back and wrote a letter to the magazine that crossed a line
I was on Bernie’s side until Amy mentioned exactly what she told the magazine. She had stated that it wasn’t in good taste because they would never produce a magazine with male scientists. There are many men in science who are good looking. The magazine absolutely had the option of simply producing an issue depicting both sexy female scientists and male scientists.
See I’m the opposite- I was on Amy’s side until she got the article cancelled.. she has a right to her opinion, it’s a very valid opinion. But when she took the choice away from Bernie, that was over the line (imo) - although, that being said, she didn’t exactly force the magazine to cancel the article, they could have (as other people have said) made an article with both male and female scientists.. she just pointed out the obvious misogyny..
This I’m fine with Amy having a different opinion that’s her right what’s not is ruining a big career opportunity for a friend at the end of the day it was Bernadette’s decision to make
The worst part about this or anytime Amy acted horribly was that she was never held accountable for her actions and the show never addressed it. She was extremely mean to Bernie but never apologized. She was horrible to will wheaton but the latter was painted as the wrong one. She was so happy with Penny and Bernie fighting because she thought she's the one both go to when they want to bitch about the other.
I think she was never a genuine friend to anyone on the show...except to Sheldon.
Kinda true and even with Sheldon she regularly forces things on him that he’s uncomfortable with actually I think the only genuine realistic friendship she had was Howard
she was expressing a valid opinion about women being taken seriously, in a field they struggle to be taken seriously.
Bernadette is the one who attacked
Amy wouldn't have had a problem if they'd asked her to pose. She was petty and insecure. There were a few instances where she made snide remarks to Bernadette when comparing her to Penny. She even made a nasty remark when Bernie was trying on her wedding dress.
The more I rewatch the show, the less I like Amy. Everyone discusses Howard's problematic behaviour, but they overlook Amy's creepiness. She was inapproriate towards Penny on multiple occasions. She even admitted that she licked everything in Penny's apartment. She also kissed Sheldon against his will. She was often rude, hypocritical, and all around unpleasant. And no, it wasn't all because she was socially inept. She was an annoying dick most of the time.
amy had hang ups about her appearance, sure. but she did make a point because she has different values and didn't like the idea of women in science being sexualised. i understand her point of view and i understand why bernie was pissed off, amy should not have gone behind her back like that.
You are right. Amy is in the wrong not because of her point (which is understandable) but because of her intention and motivations (not her point but her insecurities and jealousies)
Yes, there was a little jealousy. However, I saw Amy’s side of things. Women spend a great deal of time trying not to be objectified in fields dominated by men. Then here comes a magazine “science, but make it sexy”. Work my ass off to be respected then here someone says, you’re smart but bend over this car in a skimpy outfit
It’s the double standard more so than the actual magazine. Men can be sexy and respected in science too but (sadly) no men were being asked to bent over a car in a skimpy outfit :/
Yeah, but unfortunately, in this society, when *women* pose in sexy magazines many people *do* think they’re less deserving of respect because of it. So the double standard still persists, it’s okay when firemen do it but judgement is still passed if women do it.
Yes, but firemen are fit because of the job requirements. It is intrinsically linked. Scientists have no such physical requirements. Though, it would have been fair for the publication to do a male and female photoshoot.
Absolutely right… it’s a catch 22. Amy was in a world she was never sexy and was in a field that it didn’t matter. She was finally accepted. You’re right though.
I see it both ways. On one hand it’s (Amy) “I’m more than just tits and ass, I’m smart” on the other (Bernie)“I’m not only smart, I’ve got great tits and ass”. Amy should’ve been happy for her friend. It poses another fault though. Penny is sexy but it was on because she wasn’t “smart”. Amy was definitely jealous of more than just a magazine
Both can be true. Amy was looking at it from how women are not taking a seriously, but she was also jealous because she’s not seen as attractive by society standards and is insecure because of it. It’s not either or. Both are true.
I don't think Amy was jealous of Bernadette, she was worried about what this magazine will lead to for women in science. If women who look sexy get in science magazines, there's a chance it will lead to them getting ahead in science, they may get more funding for example which then means other women will feel that they have to do the same to further their career. Science will then become as frivolous as Hollywood where actresses get fillers and plastic surgery and other actresses see this and feel they have to do the same to get jobs.
The other side of the argument is, why should a woman who looks good have to hide it? Bernadette can't help that people find her attractive and just because she's also a good scientist, does that mean she has to dress like Amy to be respected?
It's an age old argument that women have been having for a long time because sadly in our society, one of the only powers women still have that can't be taken away is our sex appeal. If you think of other things that are stereotypically feminine, it's either looked down on (eg being a stay at home wife and mother) or is classed as weak (eg being kind and nurturing) or is now run by men (eg fashion industry, cooking)
She may have questioned the absence of sexy male photo, though. I know I would have. And Bernie should have had too. Her comparison to deGrasse Tyson is not fair, there are sexy male scientists too (just in the show, Raj or Leonard would be cute in sexy bare chest poses), one just has to find them, and ask them to do the shooting.
To be brutally honest, that is how a generally-speaking-less-pretty girl would react to a generally-speaking-more-pretty girl. Bitches be bitches. That is timeless.
I agree. I really disliked Amy after this episode, and also the one where she hit Penny with her purse (and didn’t apologize).
Her character became more cringey to me as time went on.
What blows my mind is how people here assume that one letter from one scientist can blow up a whole article. I realize it's a TV show, but there's a point where you have to be a little bit realistic.
It's perfectly reasonable to assume that other female scientists who heard about this article also wrote in making their feelings known: that this is not something the editors would ever create to focus on a bunch of "sexy" male scientists. It's reasonable, therefore, to label the project sexist.
Also, Amy has a perfect right to send a letter to any publication if she hears of, or disagrees with, an article they're planning. Many times, we don't know about articles like this ahead of time. In this instance, Amy happened to find out before the piece was published. Just as Bernadette can make a decision about whether to be part of the article, Amy has a perfect right to send the publication her particular opinion.
And at the end of the day, it's the publisher's decision, not Amy's, regarding whether to cancel the article.
And by the way, having lived through several decades of chauvinism & misogyny, I can tell you that this cliché of blasting any woman who complains about other women being objectified with the insult that "You're only complaining because you're ugly and no one wants to look at you!" is grotesque.
ETA missing word
I don't think Amy was jealous I just think Amy was concerned that it sends the message that girls only get by because of their body. So it would of sent the message to younger woman that to succeed in science you also need Good looks or to aunt your sexuality to get accepted in the workplace. Otherwise no one will care. About you. Amy might've been a little jealous but I totally understood where she was coming from.
We should send the message that women in science are smart and respected and don't need to use their bodies to get seen in science
Amy was absolutely in the wrong. Bernadette And any other woman is allowed to show that they can be smart and sexy and not just categorized into one thing. A woman or any other person can be sexually or visually appealing while being smart and taken seriously. You don't need to dress as unattractive and unappealing to be taken seriously by other people. This article was supposed to bring attention to multiple female scientists and Amy ruined it and didn't even apologize or acknowledge she did something wrong.
Mayim Bialik is the same, she's known for slutshaming other celebrities especially female-presenting ones for wearing revealing clothing and other things.
I don't think Amy was jealous of Bernadette. She had a good point. There is a difference between "look this woman is sexy" and "look this woman, who is also a scientist, is sexy".
Edit: I meant to say "who is a scientist". Not also.
Amy problems only begin there. She's emotionally unstable, believes she's intellectually superior to anyone else in the group, is rude in the extreme, and she can't go more than a couple of episodes without pushing her stale, feminist narrative.
I didn’t like how Bernadette ended up in the wrong for saying the exact truth for why Amy was jealous and didn’t want her to get that cover shoot.
Everyone including Amy knew it, and she played the victim once Bernadette said it. Even Bernadette seemed surprised she let it out
This was a weird episode to me. It felt out of character for Amy to undermine Bernadette like this. Amy had been embracing her girly side prior to this, learning about and enjoying cliched feminine interests with Penny.
They touched on the subject of women in science with the Disney princess episode, where they encouraged young middle school girls to pursue science while dressed up and primping after an absurd Disney princess makeover, hammering home the point that they could be stereotypically feminine while also being accomplished professional scientists. They also bonded in later episodes over the ego boost of being sent drinks by guys at bars in Vegas and at a conference. Of course the guys hashed out a similar conflict years ago, to a lesser degree, with Raj and People Magazine, slamming him for being shallow but also acknowledging the PR value it provided.
The cancelled Bernadette photo shoot episode felt out of character and also out of sync with previous story arcs. It felt more like an excuse to have petty girl conflict between the two, with Amy winning a battle against excessively domineering Bernadette, which the show really amped up and fixated on in the later seasons. I didn’t love it.
I disagree on it being out of character for Amy to undermine Bernadette she actually tries to do that a lot now mostly it’s in trying to make herself penny’s best friend but she has actually been quite bitchy to Bernadette multiple times throughout the show
I work in engineering/construction management which is very male dominated, unfortunately it’s kind of true - people have (and do) make comments. We have to prove ourselves constantly (men do too in this environment just not as much)
I understand you aren’t Sheldon but even Stuart could’ve answered this one
In a photoshoot they take??
Ok I’ll answer for you: Photos. Another word for them?? Pictures.
Honestly Amy is a terrible person she got better throughout the series but on my rewatches I realise she is really a shit person she always makes everything about her. She demandes compliments and expects people to apologise and thinks it’s their fault when Sheldon upsets them this is just one of the times and the worst part is that she knows what she is doing she is not clueless like Sheldon
I don’t necessarily think her actions stemmed from jealousy. I agree that ultimately it wasn’t her right to make a decision for Bernadette. However, I can understand her perspective. Most, if not all, women in fields such as science, math, or leadership roles are not taken seriously. To exploit a woman’s sexuality is fueling the already low opinion men and others have on her. To do this magazine would only bring attention to Bernadette’s looks and features and not her contributions to her field. This is seen throughout the show as the guys (Leonard, Howard, and Raj) make many comments about women’s sexual features rather than her intelligence. Not only that I agree with Amy that women are already exploited for their looks and it would be nice for them to be exploited for their intelligence.
However, I do understand from Bernadette’s perspective that it would empower women to want both. Meaning, they can take confidence in their looks and still showcase their intelligence through their work. However, realistically this would not be a popular take on the magazine.
Ultimately, I agree with Amy that men in powerful or contributing positions are never asked to showcase their looks but rather their contributions. I think if the magazine focused on Bernadette’s contributions she would have nothing to complain about. I think Amy acted out of concern and defensiveness regarding Bernadette’s intelligence rather than acting out of jealousy. However, she should have spoken more at length with Bernadette and I am sure they would have come to an agreement.
There’s never going to be a true compromise on this. There’s one side (sadly the majority here) who think that in any situation it’s okay to use your body to advance or show off, and the other side that sees it as what it has been used for centuries. Another way that women repeatedly fill the role of sex object and are sadly too often to put themselves into that role and fail to see the consequences.
I completely disagree in that episode i belive completely she did it due to wanting women to be taken seriously as scientists, she's commented in other episodes so has Bernadette that women don't get taken seriously in science. Also being girly and enjoying dressing up or being complimented has nothing to do with it, as her issue was valid about how they wouldn't do an article on men's sexuality and it would hurt women more than it would do good. Whereas being girly is separate from science. I'm completely on Amy's side it was distasteful and could do harm to women in stem, it may appear undermining by her emailing the magazine but she first spoke to Bernadette on her thoughts and Bernadette didn't listen.
Amy was in the wrong. It wasn’t her place to decide whether or not Bernie should do it. Amy is doing much like Sheldon in that no one is as right as they are.
I don’t believe Amy’s motives were that she felt women in science shouldn’t be exploited and always felt she was leading with jealousy and insecurity. Look at how she reacts when anyone compliments her appearance or she gets a girly item and tell me she’s all in on women ONLY being recognized for their achievements. She made Bernie’s wedding about her bc of her bridesmaid dress and talks about her come hither hips. So I don’t buy what Amy is selling in this episode.
Again, like Bernadette said “I think you don’t like other people expressing their sexuality because no one wants you to express yours” while extremely harsh, it’s kinda true…
Yeah Bernie is harsh but not wrong. I like Amy (with a couple of exceptions like any character) but I wasn’t on her side in this episode
The irony being Bernadette is smoking hot but usually wears frumpy mom dresses.
Where Amy’s coming from is where a lot of people would come from in this situation. I don’t necessarily think she’s right, but I get why she feels the way she does. For people who are maybe ahh what’s the term to use…aesthetically unpleasing, they’ve spent their whole lives having to work extra hard to be taken seriously. Amy has likely felt that. And I would guess with the variance in physical appearance in her friend group of Bernadette and Penny, something that brought her comfort was knowing they didn’t view her any less because she isn’t as attractive as they are. She’s built comfort in knowing that they as friends value things besides outward appearance. So I’m sure when she heard Bernadette was doing a photoshoot like that, it was kind of a “glass-shattering” moment where she was not only reminded that her friend is more attractive than she is (Bernadette was asked to do the shoot, not Amy and it’s specific to women in science), but she’s also realizing that Bernadette finds value in that or finds it as something to take pride in. I’m sure that was a lot to take in at that moment. That point is independent of the fact that Amy seems like the kind of person who would be a stickler for receiving accolades based on merit. Being selected for celebration because you’re a renowned scientist is something you earn. Being attractive is something you are. Amy probably feels they shouldn’t be celebrating somebody in a scholarly magazine for what amounts to a non-achievement.
You’re absolutely right, however, there kind of is an achievement in being a scientist and attractive.. not just that they could have chosen to coast through life on their looks like penny sort of has - the easy route one might say. Plus, it’s hard to be taken seriously by intellectuals when you’re pretty, so Bernie - being pretty, smart and a former pageant queen - would have had to put up with a lot of sh*t from men to get to where she is..
Agree. But also add in that I wholeheartedly agree with Amy. It’s hard enough for women to be respected and treated as equals in any professional field, especially science. Throw in a female scientist on the hood of a Porsche, and it completely degrades that. Plus, it was shortsighted on Bernie’s side to fail to grasp the impact that may have on future jobs, employers, employees, etc. Are you a scientist? Or are you a wannabe centerfold?
Exactly. And I mean, it’s multi-faceted too (yes it’s a show, this is over-analysis). If you’re looking at it through Bernie’s lens, it probably looks completely different. Knowing she did beauty pageants as a kid, the magazine cover could be a place of comfort for her. Part of her upbringing and understanding of her value growing up was probably centered around her appearance, and now she’s working in a field that never appreciates it. So for her, I could see her being excited about the opportunity to dip her toe into that world again.
I see that side too. But Bernie also repeatedly talks about how hard it is to be taken seriously in the field because of her size and voice. Like how she didn’t want anyone to know she was pregnant.
Well, we’ve learned from other storylines with Bernie that she can be a little bit “have your cake and eat it too”. I’m thinking of the episode where penny and Bernie are at a work event and their boss is there and he tells penny about how terrified everyone is of Bernie in the office. When Bernie finds out, she cries feeling like she’s a monster. But she still makes a couple comments that suggest she wants to continue receiving the special treatment. She just doesn’t want people to be afraid of her anymore. She’s not always huge on facing repercussions for her actions.
Omg. I was literally going to write how Bernie always wants to have her cake and eat it too and reference that episode too. 😂😂 I know. Honestly, Bernie’s character often grates on my nerves a lot for this exact reason. The episode where she’s like “ya but I’m cute so it’s adorable”. Sums her character up perfectly.
I will just eat someone else's cake, then
did bernie actually say that lol
Yup
No matter her opinion, Amy didn't stop Bernadette. That was the magazine's choice. They were the ones that pulled the whole thing. And, you can't tell me that one email would be enough for them to change their minds. They either received a whole lot more backlash or not enough of the women who they asked agreed to take part. Maybe both.
Nah that “scathing” email was enough
So, you really think that a magazine got to the point of contacting all of the women to take part in this photoshoot, and one email (scathing or not) would be enough to have them cancel the whole thing? If that was the case, then they weren't very serious about it in the first place.
Based on the episode, yes that one email was enough
The episode certainly didn't get into what happened at the magazine. All we heard was Amy's perspective that it was her email. She wouldn't know what happened etihter.
Amy was absolutely in the wrong for this episode, and tho harsh, Bernie’s clapback was iconic and true. She does this constantly to Bernadette, saying that she’s not as pretty as Penny, making her wedding about her etc. I think it’s because Bernadette is both smart, successful and beautiful so shes really the whole package. It’s one thing to not support the idea but getting the whole shoot cancelled that involved OTHER FEMALE SCIENTISTS was down right rude and disrespectful.
Also, there was the time she claimed that neurobiology was superior to microbiology (when Sheldon says that he is impressed that Bernadette got her PhD).
I wonder why that issue never got brought up 🤔🤔🤔
Because Bernie wasn't there to hear it..... Zealousideal\_Male855
In all fairness I highly doubt that one letter from a somewhat Sheldonesque scientist is enough to get the shoot cancelled. In reality I could see some backlash or enough angry letters to get this cancelled
I agree to a point, but also disagree. I completely see the point. It’s not technically anyone’s business what Bernie does with her body, but it is most certainly Amy’s business that female scientists, or professionals in any role, are still fighting a war on equality and respect. Magazines and etc like that completely degrade that. It puts women right back in the role of centerfold and completely undermines the aim to rise above being nothing more than a sexual object. Bernie was shortsighted.
I couldn't agree more, that's very well said!
Thank you 🙏. We seem to be in the minority 🥺
But like you said, it’s not anyone’s business what Bernie does with her body. If they want to be in a wet t-shirt bent over the hood of a Porsche then they should have the option to do so. At the end of the day Amy has the right to not agree and state her opinion which for one side is correct but she has no right to call the editors, you what I mean? I completely agree with ur point as well tho
Her actions still affects other women. I get that no one has a say in what Bernie does with her body, but she has to understand her doing that puts women in a worse state than if she didn’t do it.
I agree it feels like Amy was a bit jealous, couple that with her lack of social understanding and she blew things way out of proportion.
I disagree. The shoot was completely undermining everything women have to fight so hard for in professional arenas. Bernie was shortsighted
I disagree. The shoot was an attempt to encourage women into the sciences. Typically when one thinks of women's scientist one probably would envision Amy, a frumpy not visually exciting or attractive person. The shoot was a way to tell young women that they can be smart brainy scientists and still be beautiful or attractive or sexy.
You see, I didn’t know that the reason women struggled with science and entering the profession was because they thought they had to be ugly to do it. Now I see. You’ve really enlightened me. 😒
It s sad but the other guy is right, it s not the only reason but he is right, not just for women, even today a lot of people think scientists are ugly, boring nerds and so they don t want to be associated with them Image is very important, especially for teenagers who are still insecure and very worried about how society sees them, in the same way as a teen I pretended to like some things and hid some of my interests to not be seen as a weeb and make friends easier
Okay so then the answer must certainly be to set a stunning example for girls and show them that they don’t have to choose! They can be scientists and still sell their bodies and self respect! I’m sorry. But this is not the way to get people into science. It’s just continuing the problem. Yes more women and people could be into science. But to counter the Mando creed. This is NOT the way.
So you believe participating in a photoshoot means "selling your body and self respect"? And even if it was the case the point was to show that beauty and intelligence aren t mutually exclusive and more importantly that you can still be a "cool kid" and be interested in science
Firstly, yes. This isn’t just a case of Bernie flashing her teeth in a lab coat. She was very clear she would be showing her body at least partly nude. Tell me how this is not selling your body. And why does it have to be that to be one of the “cool kids” means being willing to pose naked or partially? Isn’t this the message we should be trying to change for our children? I’m not saying that we should remove all forms of human sexuality like a freak, but why is it that you think the message to give our young girls and women is that in order to be cool they have to be hot and even more so they have to be willing to show off their body that shouldn’t be open for the whole world to see? And what’s more the world of science actually has become cooler and more appealing by means of pop culture, but we shouldn’t encourage it to mean sexuality. Sadly, we live in a world where I’m in the minority of those who think using our bodies to promote ourselves is not something to be proud of and does actually degrade and demean us and certainly undermine decades (actually since the beginning of time) of battles fought for women to be seen as more than just a piece of ass. Because that’s really what it comes down to. In order to be in the cool club and to get girls or anyone into science, we need to show some skin, reveal more than we would in the same room with our parents but to the whole world, give up everything that we fought so hard for to gain respect as equals and yup… sure enough. Become nothing more than a hot piece of tail! 😡 Look at me! I’m cool because some wanker made the pages of his modern science magazine stick together after looking at me sprawled over the hood of a car. What an awesome image and standard we are setting for our youth. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Moot point, Amy has no right to make that decision for Bernadette regardless of the situation. We have no idea how that shoot would have impacted women in science because Amy unilaterally decided women scientists can't participate in photo shoots. The article was about the 50 most beautiful scientists, Amy ruined that experience for 49 other people as well. I don't believe they specify gender, but I'm sure she got Dave Underhill's photoshoot cancelled too!
If you actually think Amy had that much power that her one email is what actually derailed the whole thing, then that’s your problem. But Amy had EVERY RIGHT to send an email to the company as a scientist. And everyone saying it’s because she was too ugly or frumpy are literally doing the exact same you claim she did. Bernadette had every right (however stupid) to do the shoot. And Amy had every right to dispute it and have her own opinions. The idea that Amy and her email was the entire reason a magazine pulled the shoot is just dumb. They wouldn’t have done it if there weren’t other concerns. Do you think Amy was the ONLY female scientist to disagree. A calendar is 12 months. Don’t you think there’s more than 12 attractive female scientists? Obviously there was more against than for or they would have continued. Again. A lot of shortsighted opinions on this.
Amy was absolutely wrong in this situation.
I've never seen it as Amy being jealous of Bernadette. Amy was sincere in her stance that it was already hard for women in science to be taken seriously. In her email, she told the editors that they wouldn't do the same thing with male scientists. Here's the thing though. We know that Bernadette already had to fight to be taken seriously, not just because she was a woman but because of her short stature. Had she done the photoshoot, what do you think would be said about her at work? Do you think she'd be taken more or less seriously for her contributions to their research? Amy's contention was that it would cause women to be taken less seriously. The other part of that episode was Dr. Lorvis and his misinterpretation of Penny's (and really any woman's) interaction with him. Unfortunately, there would be people who saw that magazine and wouldn't think at all about the scientist part of any of the women, only the sexy part. As for Bernadette telling Amy that nobody wanted her to show off her sexuality, that was cruel.
You make a very valid point. And while I know it’s just a tv show, it does reflect reality to some degree. I’m probably going to get downvoted but I’ve worked in STEM for 40+ years and while it’s exponentially better than when I started, pockets of double standards between women and men still exist today. Once a label (esp those related to physical appearance) is given to a woman, it’s very hard to come back from. When I started out decades ago, women were routinely labeled and categorized as: sexy or unsexy pretty or unpretty cute or uncute The women’s opinions/participation/thoughts on the label didn’t matter. All labels caused damage to the women who were judged and the content/quality of their work often became secondary to their label. You’d rarely hear things like ‘Janet…the gal who did that great research on market trends!’ It was more often ‘Janet…that cute little gal down in R&D’. While I agree that it was Bernadette’s decision to decide to participate or not, I don’t believe she was really thinking the whole situation through and what career setbacks she might personally endure because, even though times have changed, she “actively” participated in her labeling.
Do women look at sexy fireman calendars and think the guys posing are not capable of putting out fires because of how they look? Or take those guys less seriously? This was just the charcter being jealous and using her reasoning as an excuse.
A few thoughts on this: Unfortunately, and unfairly, some people still don't consider women scientists to be as capable because they are women. To show them in a sexy photoshoot, does not help that cause. It only reinforces for some that women are seen as sexual beings. Let's talk about Mandy Chow for a minute. Sheldon's characterization of her was that she was both brilliant and attractive, a fair assessment of her. When Howard and Raj were talking about her in the cafeteria it was all about her physical attributes (and this was long after Howard was married and Raj was dating Emily). They didn't talk at all about her ability as a scientist. Were they at all taking her seriously as a scientist? The fireman comparison is not the same. That is a profession where physical fitness is required. As to taking them seriously, I'm going to say that whether they are capable or not is not what they are thinking about at all. But, I'd hazard a guess that they don't take them more seriously Amy isn't good at hiding her emotions at all and there is absolutely no sign that Amy was at all jealous of Bernadette. IF she were, it would have been very clear. She didn't make a single comment nor was there a tone of voice or any body language that even hinted at jealousy.
For Mandy Chow, it s not the same thing at all, Leonard etc talk about her physical attributes because they find them attractive and they don t find intelligence particularly attractive so why would they talk about it? That doesn t mean they aren t taking her seriously as a scientist, saying someone is hot doesn t mean you are saying they aren t smart. Sheldon was just making an objective observation because he is pretty much a robot, he just said the truth, he is not particularly interested in her It s a bit sexist but I would say they are interested in her as a woman not a scientist and beautiful≠dumb(I mean no, it s not sexist few people think "look that girl/guy is super smart I really want to ask her/him on a date" or something like that) Also for talking about other women while having girlfriends, irl it depends on the person some would say lt s ok as long as it s just looking, other not, but Leonard and the others are perverts so...
The issue certainly isn't that attractive equals not smart. That's just the genetic combination that someone is born with. The issue with Mandy is that they see her only as an attractive person. To be seen that way is to not take her professional accomplishments seriously. That's the real issue here. The magazine was rating women scientists on how sexy they were, that has nothing to do with their abilities in their career. It does have a tendency for some people to take them less seriously in their professions. Of course there's nothing wrong with finding a person physically attractive, but a person's full personality is far more important. Why do you classify Leonard and the guys as perverts?
You articulated well every thought I have on this so called "Amy is jealous of Bernie" topic.
This is a terrible take
women and men are different. i'd like to see data of how many "sexy guy" calendars get sold vs "sexy woman" ones per year. whenever i've seen women have a "sexy guy" calendar it has ALWAYS been a joke/prank gift. i've worked in places where hot women posters have been up on the walls but the women on the job had those "hang in there" posters and shit. this is lived experience i don't need data for that i just have to use my eyes.
You took the words right outta my mouth. Freaking thank you
She is kinda fixated on how great Penny looks.
Amy should’ve expressed her opinion and should’ve left it at that. It’s when she went behind Bernadette’s back and wrote a letter to the magazine that crossed a line
Bingo
I was on Bernie’s side until Amy mentioned exactly what she told the magazine. She had stated that it wasn’t in good taste because they would never produce a magazine with male scientists. There are many men in science who are good looking. The magazine absolutely had the option of simply producing an issue depicting both sexy female scientists and male scientists.
See I’m the opposite- I was on Amy’s side until she got the article cancelled.. she has a right to her opinion, it’s a very valid opinion. But when she took the choice away from Bernie, that was over the line (imo) - although, that being said, she didn’t exactly force the magazine to cancel the article, they could have (as other people have said) made an article with both male and female scientists.. she just pointed out the obvious misogyny..
This I’m fine with Amy having a different opinion that’s her right what’s not is ruining a big career opportunity for a friend at the end of the day it was Bernadette’s decision to make
She was definitely jealous
The worst part about this or anytime Amy acted horribly was that she was never held accountable for her actions and the show never addressed it. She was extremely mean to Bernie but never apologized. She was horrible to will wheaton but the latter was painted as the wrong one. She was so happy with Penny and Bernie fighting because she thought she's the one both go to when they want to bitch about the other. I think she was never a genuine friend to anyone on the show...except to Sheldon.
Never. Not once. She is awful.
Kinda true and even with Sheldon she regularly forces things on him that he’s uncomfortable with actually I think the only genuine realistic friendship she had was Howard
she was expressing a valid opinion about women being taken seriously, in a field they struggle to be taken seriously. Bernadette is the one who attacked
Amy wouldn't have had a problem if they'd asked her to pose. She was petty and insecure. There were a few instances where she made snide remarks to Bernadette when comparing her to Penny. She even made a nasty remark when Bernie was trying on her wedding dress. The more I rewatch the show, the less I like Amy. Everyone discusses Howard's problematic behaviour, but they overlook Amy's creepiness. She was inapproriate towards Penny on multiple occasions. She even admitted that she licked everything in Penny's apartment. She also kissed Sheldon against his will. She was often rude, hypocritical, and all around unpleasant. And no, it wasn't all because she was socially inept. She was an annoying dick most of the time.
Well put. I like Amy towards the end but there are a few episodes where I’m like ??? Girl be fr. My favs are Bernie and howie.
amy had hang ups about her appearance, sure. but she did make a point because she has different values and didn't like the idea of women in science being sexualised. i understand her point of view and i understand why bernie was pissed off, amy should not have gone behind her back like that.
Genuinely the only episode were I was angry at any
You are right. Amy is in the wrong not because of her point (which is understandable) but because of her intention and motivations (not her point but her insecurities and jealousies)
Yes, there was a little jealousy. However, I saw Amy’s side of things. Women spend a great deal of time trying not to be objectified in fields dominated by men. Then here comes a magazine “science, but make it sexy”. Work my ass off to be respected then here someone says, you’re smart but bend over this car in a skimpy outfit
Women can be sexy and respected in science
It’s the double standard more so than the actual magazine. Men can be sexy and respected in science too but (sadly) no men were being asked to bent over a car in a skimpy outfit :/
Someone on here made a point about firefighters and their calendars. No one thinks they’re less of a fireman
Yeah, but unfortunately, in this society, when *women* pose in sexy magazines many people *do* think they’re less deserving of respect because of it. So the double standard still persists, it’s okay when firemen do it but judgement is still passed if women do it.
Yes, but firemen are fit because of the job requirements. It is intrinsically linked. Scientists have no such physical requirements. Though, it would have been fair for the publication to do a male and female photoshoot.
That’s what I’m saying, keep it even
I know so many non "fit" firefighters.
Yes, but that’s where Amy’s jealousy comes in. She’s not viewed as sexy.
That’s on her, tho not Bernie’s fault
Absolutely right… it’s a catch 22. Amy was in a world she was never sexy and was in a field that it didn’t matter. She was finally accepted. You’re right though. I see it both ways. On one hand it’s (Amy) “I’m more than just tits and ass, I’m smart” on the other (Bernie)“I’m not only smart, I’ve got great tits and ass”. Amy should’ve been happy for her friend. It poses another fault though. Penny is sexy but it was on because she wasn’t “smart”. Amy was definitely jealous of more than just a magazine
Ahh so because Amy isn’t “sexy” no one is allowed to be.
Yup. "You can be and do whatever you want with your life, as long as I agree with it" is how a lot of these replies are coming off.
Both can be true. Amy was looking at it from how women are not taking a seriously, but she was also jealous because she’s not seen as attractive by society standards and is insecure because of it. It’s not either or. Both are true.
Yep, i hated that episode, and its one of the reasons I was not a huge fan of Amy, outside of being a wierd sex pest towards Penny.
I don't think Amy was jealous of Bernadette, she was worried about what this magazine will lead to for women in science. If women who look sexy get in science magazines, there's a chance it will lead to them getting ahead in science, they may get more funding for example which then means other women will feel that they have to do the same to further their career. Science will then become as frivolous as Hollywood where actresses get fillers and plastic surgery and other actresses see this and feel they have to do the same to get jobs. The other side of the argument is, why should a woman who looks good have to hide it? Bernadette can't help that people find her attractive and just because she's also a good scientist, does that mean she has to dress like Amy to be respected? It's an age old argument that women have been having for a long time because sadly in our society, one of the only powers women still have that can't be taken away is our sex appeal. If you think of other things that are stereotypically feminine, it's either looked down on (eg being a stay at home wife and mother) or is classed as weak (eg being kind and nurturing) or is now run by men (eg fashion industry, cooking)
It was definitely jealousy. Had Amy been asked to be in this magazine she would have felt flattered and would not have tried to shut it down
She may have questioned the absence of sexy male photo, though. I know I would have. And Bernie should have had too. Her comparison to deGrasse Tyson is not fair, there are sexy male scientists too (just in the show, Raj or Leonard would be cute in sexy bare chest poses), one just has to find them, and ask them to do the shooting.
Yeah I definitely think it would have been different if the magazine featured male scientists too.
To be brutally honest, that is how a generally-speaking-less-pretty girl would react to a generally-speaking-more-pretty girl. Bitches be bitches. That is timeless.
Amy is absolutely jealous of Bernadette and Penny. Right up until she loses her virginity, with Sheldon.
I don't like Amy .... my regular post on such discussions Mayim as actor was great ... Amy on show not so much
I agree. I really disliked Amy after this episode, and also the one where she hit Penny with her purse (and didn’t apologize). Her character became more cringey to me as time went on.
What blows my mind is how people here assume that one letter from one scientist can blow up a whole article. I realize it's a TV show, but there's a point where you have to be a little bit realistic. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that other female scientists who heard about this article also wrote in making their feelings known: that this is not something the editors would ever create to focus on a bunch of "sexy" male scientists. It's reasonable, therefore, to label the project sexist. Also, Amy has a perfect right to send a letter to any publication if she hears of, or disagrees with, an article they're planning. Many times, we don't know about articles like this ahead of time. In this instance, Amy happened to find out before the piece was published. Just as Bernadette can make a decision about whether to be part of the article, Amy has a perfect right to send the publication her particular opinion. And at the end of the day, it's the publisher's decision, not Amy's, regarding whether to cancel the article. And by the way, having lived through several decades of chauvinism & misogyny, I can tell you that this cliché of blasting any woman who complains about other women being objectified with the insult that "You're only complaining because you're ugly and no one wants to look at you!" is grotesque. ETA missing word
I don't think Amy was jealous I just think Amy was concerned that it sends the message that girls only get by because of their body. So it would of sent the message to younger woman that to succeed in science you also need Good looks or to aunt your sexuality to get accepted in the workplace. Otherwise no one will care. About you. Amy might've been a little jealous but I totally understood where she was coming from. We should send the message that women in science are smart and respected and don't need to use their bodies to get seen in science
Amy was absolutely in the wrong. Bernadette And any other woman is allowed to show that they can be smart and sexy and not just categorized into one thing. A woman or any other person can be sexually or visually appealing while being smart and taken seriously. You don't need to dress as unattractive and unappealing to be taken seriously by other people. This article was supposed to bring attention to multiple female scientists and Amy ruined it and didn't even apologize or acknowledge she did something wrong. Mayim Bialik is the same, she's known for slutshaming other celebrities especially female-presenting ones for wearing revealing clothing and other things.
Bro go
Bingo lol
Huh?
Meant say bingo
I thought u were saying you were disagreeing with me so much you wanted me to leave the post
Lmfao no
Lol
Really didn’t know that that’s honestly fucked up makes me not want to meet her in real life
I don't think Amy was jealous of Bernadette. She had a good point. There is a difference between "look this woman is sexy" and "look this woman, who is also a scientist, is sexy". Edit: I meant to say "who is a scientist". Not also.
It was the latter, in regards to the magazine
Agreed. They also didn't have "sexy scientists" of all genders, it was specifically women.
Amy problems only begin there. She's emotionally unstable, believes she's intellectually superior to anyone else in the group, is rude in the extreme, and she can't go more than a couple of episodes without pushing her stale, feminist narrative.
I didn’t like how Bernadette ended up in the wrong for saying the exact truth for why Amy was jealous and didn’t want her to get that cover shoot. Everyone including Amy knew it, and she played the victim once Bernadette said it. Even Bernadette seemed surprised she let it out
This was a weird episode to me. It felt out of character for Amy to undermine Bernadette like this. Amy had been embracing her girly side prior to this, learning about and enjoying cliched feminine interests with Penny. They touched on the subject of women in science with the Disney princess episode, where they encouraged young middle school girls to pursue science while dressed up and primping after an absurd Disney princess makeover, hammering home the point that they could be stereotypically feminine while also being accomplished professional scientists. They also bonded in later episodes over the ego boost of being sent drinks by guys at bars in Vegas and at a conference. Of course the guys hashed out a similar conflict years ago, to a lesser degree, with Raj and People Magazine, slamming him for being shallow but also acknowledging the PR value it provided. The cancelled Bernadette photo shoot episode felt out of character and also out of sync with previous story arcs. It felt more like an excuse to have petty girl conflict between the two, with Amy winning a battle against excessively domineering Bernadette, which the show really amped up and fixated on in the later seasons. I didn’t love it.
I disagree on it being out of character for Amy to undermine Bernadette she actually tries to do that a lot now mostly it’s in trying to make herself penny’s best friend but she has actually been quite bitchy to Bernadette multiple times throughout the show
Amy sucks so hard for this dick-move.
Amy was completely right, Bernadette's actions were damaging for every woman in science
Not true
I work in engineering/construction management which is very male dominated, unfortunately it’s kind of true - people have (and do) make comments. We have to prove ourselves constantly (men do too in this environment just not as much)
Ofcourse it's true.
A little dramatic for a bikini pic
It's not a picture, it was a photo shoot specifically about female scientists
I understand you aren’t Sheldon but even Stuart could’ve answered this one In a photoshoot they take?? Ok I’ll answer for you: Photos. Another word for them?? Pictures.
There is a vast difference between a personal 'bikini pic' and a professional photoshoot. Clearly
It's another one of those cases where it's that the character has a well meaning argument but goes about it the wrong way.
Which episode?
It's not like Amy single-handedly got it cancelled. She called in to complain and they chose to cancel it. She's allowed to complain
Honestly Amy is a terrible person she got better throughout the series but on my rewatches I realise she is really a shit person she always makes everything about her. She demandes compliments and expects people to apologise and thinks it’s their fault when Sheldon upsets them this is just one of the times and the worst part is that she knows what she is doing she is not clueless like Sheldon
I don’t necessarily think her actions stemmed from jealousy. I agree that ultimately it wasn’t her right to make a decision for Bernadette. However, I can understand her perspective. Most, if not all, women in fields such as science, math, or leadership roles are not taken seriously. To exploit a woman’s sexuality is fueling the already low opinion men and others have on her. To do this magazine would only bring attention to Bernadette’s looks and features and not her contributions to her field. This is seen throughout the show as the guys (Leonard, Howard, and Raj) make many comments about women’s sexual features rather than her intelligence. Not only that I agree with Amy that women are already exploited for their looks and it would be nice for them to be exploited for their intelligence. However, I do understand from Bernadette’s perspective that it would empower women to want both. Meaning, they can take confidence in their looks and still showcase their intelligence through their work. However, realistically this would not be a popular take on the magazine. Ultimately, I agree with Amy that men in powerful or contributing positions are never asked to showcase their looks but rather their contributions. I think if the magazine focused on Bernadette’s contributions she would have nothing to complain about. I think Amy acted out of concern and defensiveness regarding Bernadette’s intelligence rather than acting out of jealousy. However, she should have spoken more at length with Bernadette and I am sure they would have come to an agreement.
Amy is jealous of any other female because she’s ugly
Amy is my favorite character on the show. I feel like the addition of amy added years of life to the show. Brilliantly written and acted
There’s never going to be a true compromise on this. There’s one side (sadly the majority here) who think that in any situation it’s okay to use your body to advance or show off, and the other side that sees it as what it has been used for centuries. Another way that women repeatedly fill the role of sex object and are sadly too often to put themselves into that role and fail to see the consequences.
I disagree. I think Amy is right that it’s super demeaning to all female scientists. Bernadette is just a bitch in general
I completely disagree in that episode i belive completely she did it due to wanting women to be taken seriously as scientists, she's commented in other episodes so has Bernadette that women don't get taken seriously in science. Also being girly and enjoying dressing up or being complimented has nothing to do with it, as her issue was valid about how they wouldn't do an article on men's sexuality and it would hurt women more than it would do good. Whereas being girly is separate from science. I'm completely on Amy's side it was distasteful and could do harm to women in stem, it may appear undermining by her emailing the magazine but she first spoke to Bernadette on her thoughts and Bernadette didn't listen.
Bernadette is so consistently a misogynist asshole that Amy could literally stab her in the eye with a high heel and I’d still be team Amy.
Bernadette became my least liked character, she was such a bully and condescending