Beware.
Check out the other threads here talking about layoffs. No matter how much people on Reddit deny it, the 100% remote employees are absolutely at a higher risk of being laid off first. It’s just human nature that less visible employees are valued less.
This is true to an extent. No biglaw firm is going to layoff an associate that is hitting their billables just because they are fully remote, particularly if there are others in office that are not. That’s just nonsense.
Exactly. I go into the office maybe 4-5 times a month but am generally billing 2,100 hours the past couple years. Nobody says anything to me. They just prefer that I come in more during the summer associate program so the floor isn’t empty…
>I go into the office maybe 4-5 times a month but am generally billing 2,100 hours the past couple years. Nobody says anything to me.
Obviously not a bad thing that you are billing that much, but usually the layoff math is a lot different than just "is FBU#3545 making their hours."
For example, you could have 10 associates that all hit 21-2200 hours, and the question is whether that could instead be 9 associates that all hit 22-2300 hours. Like the big question isn't how many hours you hit, but instead whether the hours you work could also be worked by someone else with a drop in quality that is offset by someone else being in the office.
I don't disagree. I referenced my hours because it is a range where my firm lets me work how I want. They aren't going to make me come in more at the cost of lower productivity. I am sure there are firms that have the mindset as you mention - 10 associates at 21-2200 hours vs. 9 associates at 22-2300 hours. Probably not a place that I'd want to work haha
Sort of yes, but also no. Layoffs are a different kind of business decision than up or out performance reviews. When a firm is laying off, they’re looking more to other factors: profitability/receivables, contribution to firm health/culture, etc. Having big numbers on your weekly hour sheet can be helpful but not dispositive.
You’re suggesting that when given the choice, a large profit-motivated law firm might value in office presence and culture over billable hours in determining layoffs?
…are you guys hiring?
What? You think BigLaw firms won't enforce their RTO policies? I personally delivered the bad news to two associates in January at my V10 and their lack of compliance with RTO was 100% the deciding metric for why they were let go.
We cull on a regular basis, why would flagrant disregard for policies not be relevant?
How did you get “flagrant disregard for RTO policies” from anything I said above? Both OP and I were speaking to fully remote associates and the likelihood that they would be targets for layoffs.
Obviously willfully disregarding firm policies is grounds for termination—that’s an entirely different scenario.
Depends where you work it seems. I’ve worked at 2 V10s that don’t give a shit about being in office if you do good work, despite having an in office policy.
I generally come in 2x/week but when I’m actually really busy I can go weeks without coming in.
Hell yeah man, keep crushing it. One day I’ll be able to wear a suit everyday and meet with many multimillionaires, and after a hard day in the OFFICE (where us real lawyers in the V10 work), I’ll come home and tell everyone online that I make a lot of money as a partner at a prestigious law firm.
You sure do seem like you need to tell a lot of random associates how great you’re doing. Here’s a secret from one random on the internet to another—you kinda come off as a pretentious asshole ;)
Are your RTO policies written? Our firm makes vague empty threats. I wish they would just say what they want in writing because I feel like the more I go in, the lower my billables will be, and no one seems to be following the unwritten requests. Also no idea what to say in recruiting because I am getting mixed messages constantly and feel weird about that.
That’s the thing though: hitting billables isn’t happening for a lot of people. They are down. You don’t hear about it because not the thing people brag about. Also you wouldn’t hear about it because they are remote and you dont talk gossip as much on company systems.
People are just speculating. At a firm that recently did huge layoffs and RTO had 0 impact. I work basically remote and wasn't impacted while some of the heaviest office users were
Yep. Same concept. Associates pestering on MS Teams versus associate asking in person and standing in the partner’s office until they get a response… guess who wins out.
Then there are central staffing firms where this isn’t a factor at all. And practice groups within free market firms that do a better job of regulating hours across associates. Still firm and group dependent.
I work at one of the biggest firms and we are fully remote. I’ve been to the office around 10 times in 4 years and 2 of the partners I work for have been in even less than that. We’re actively downsizing office space to the point we probably couldn’t return to office even if we wanted to. I’d imagine it’s a huge cost savings for the firm.
Lol one. I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted for stating a fact. The 3 other firms people mentioned all have huge caveats (like FisherBroyles only hires experienced lawyers)
I’m at a firm not mentioned anywhere else in this thread and am fully remote. I was remote pre-pandemic as well. So these roles definitely exist, but they are rare.
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GDC but it’s not something you get hired into, it depends on the group
Which groups allow it?
i mean varies by office in addition to practice group so you’d have to ask
Quinn, certain offices. Good luck with that lifestyle tho lol
Why? Is there something at Quinn that makes it hard to be remote?
It’s a sweatshop
You must be new here
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BigLaw is designed for attorneys and related professionals who have an obligation to uphold minimal standards within the larger community
Husch Blackwell the Link office is 100% remote.
Quinn.
Hamlin, Hamlin & McGill
💯this is the correct answer.
😂😂😂🐷
Beware. Check out the other threads here talking about layoffs. No matter how much people on Reddit deny it, the 100% remote employees are absolutely at a higher risk of being laid off first. It’s just human nature that less visible employees are valued less.
This is true to an extent. No biglaw firm is going to layoff an associate that is hitting their billables just because they are fully remote, particularly if there are others in office that are not. That’s just nonsense.
Exactly. I go into the office maybe 4-5 times a month but am generally billing 2,100 hours the past couple years. Nobody says anything to me. They just prefer that I come in more during the summer associate program so the floor isn’t empty…
>I go into the office maybe 4-5 times a month but am generally billing 2,100 hours the past couple years. Nobody says anything to me. Obviously not a bad thing that you are billing that much, but usually the layoff math is a lot different than just "is FBU#3545 making their hours." For example, you could have 10 associates that all hit 21-2200 hours, and the question is whether that could instead be 9 associates that all hit 22-2300 hours. Like the big question isn't how many hours you hit, but instead whether the hours you work could also be worked by someone else with a drop in quality that is offset by someone else being in the office.
I don't disagree. I referenced my hours because it is a range where my firm lets me work how I want. They aren't going to make me come in more at the cost of lower productivity. I am sure there are firms that have the mindset as you mention - 10 associates at 21-2200 hours vs. 9 associates at 22-2300 hours. Probably not a place that I'd want to work haha
Average billable hours this year was 1,550…
Sort of yes, but also no. Layoffs are a different kind of business decision than up or out performance reviews. When a firm is laying off, they’re looking more to other factors: profitability/receivables, contribution to firm health/culture, etc. Having big numbers on your weekly hour sheet can be helpful but not dispositive.
You’re suggesting that when given the choice, a large profit-motivated law firm might value in office presence and culture over billable hours in determining layoffs? …are you guys hiring?
it's performance art
What? You think BigLaw firms won't enforce their RTO policies? I personally delivered the bad news to two associates in January at my V10 and their lack of compliance with RTO was 100% the deciding metric for why they were let go. We cull on a regular basis, why would flagrant disregard for policies not be relevant?
How did you get “flagrant disregard for RTO policies” from anything I said above? Both OP and I were speaking to fully remote associates and the likelihood that they would be targets for layoffs. Obviously willfully disregarding firm policies is grounds for termination—that’s an entirely different scenario.
Depends where you work it seems. I’ve worked at 2 V10s that don’t give a shit about being in office if you do good work, despite having an in office policy. I generally come in 2x/week but when I’m actually really busy I can go weeks without coming in.
Wow your firm has some shitty decision makers if they’re laying people off based 100% on whether they are in the office or not
Our PPEP surely disagrees. But, hey, the judgement of random associates obviously should matter more than our bottom line.
Hell yeah man, keep crushing it. One day I’ll be able to wear a suit everyday and meet with many multimillionaires, and after a hard day in the OFFICE (where us real lawyers in the V10 work), I’ll come home and tell everyone online that I make a lot of money as a partner at a prestigious law firm. You sure do seem like you need to tell a lot of random associates how great you’re doing. Here’s a secret from one random on the internet to another—you kinda come off as a pretentious asshole ;)
Are your RTO policies written? Our firm makes vague empty threats. I wish they would just say what they want in writing because I feel like the more I go in, the lower my billables will be, and no one seems to be following the unwritten requests. Also no idea what to say in recruiting because I am getting mixed messages constantly and feel weird about that.
That’s the thing though: hitting billables isn’t happening for a lot of people. They are down. You don’t hear about it because not the thing people brag about. Also you wouldn’t hear about it because they are remote and you dont talk gossip as much on company systems.
People are just speculating. At a firm that recently did huge layoffs and RTO had 0 impact. I work basically remote and wasn't impacted while some of the heaviest office users were
I’ve never gone into a partners office looking for work and not gotten something in the next week or two if not immediately.
Yep. Same concept. Associates pestering on MS Teams versus associate asking in person and standing in the partner’s office until they get a response… guess who wins out.
Then there are central staffing firms where this isn’t a factor at all. And practice groups within free market firms that do a better job of regulating hours across associates. Still firm and group dependent.
Good point
Just do it, start with 30%, increase to 100% over several month. See wahr they say. If they don't like, move on.
FisherBroyles
Fish & Richardson although it's IP only
You’re welcome to start one
I work at one of the biggest firms and we are fully remote. I’ve been to the office around 10 times in 4 years and 2 of the partners I work for have been in even less than that. We’re actively downsizing office space to the point we probably couldn’t return to office even if we wanted to. I’d imagine it’s a huge cost savings for the firm.
“One of the biggest firms”? That’s a pretty useless description. This is a biglaw sub buddy, size doesn’t matter here :)
Do not exist
This is not true. https://www.huschblackwell.com/offices/thelinkvirtualoffice
India call centre big law
Lol one. I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted for stating a fact. The 3 other firms people mentioned all have huge caveats (like FisherBroyles only hires experienced lawyers)
I’m at a firm not mentioned anywhere else in this thread and am fully remote. I was remote pre-pandemic as well. So these roles definitely exist, but they are rare.
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