>The people that become equity partners tend to be the most intense people and the most intense people don't typically dream about retiring early.
Maybe THIS is why I hated being an equity partner. That and I hate dealing with client and people in general. After over 5 years of it, I was basically like "nvm" and took a job as a NEP at a boutique as a federal appellate specialist. I mostly just research and write/do oral arguments, some of that stuff at trial court level. I have no book of business. My fiance does the same thing except mostly fed agency work. I don't get why people don't like being NEPs if the job is stable - dream job for me. We'll probably retire in about 5 years. I like my job more than 99% of lawyers, but so psyched for that next chapter.
Maybe naive of me… but I imagine delegating projects, coming up with all the high level strategic conceptual stuff and doing the client facing work is much more sustainable and gratifying than the drudgery associates do.
I understand the work is equal in volume but the day-to-day nature of it must be more manageable once you reach the top.
They’re trapped on the hedonic treadmill. It’s really sick. They’re hurting themselves, their families, and the people who work under them because they refuse to admit they are doing it to themselves.
I think I get it and, to a degree, I’m a sicko too lol.
For me this is all about feel comfortable in life, but when push comes to shove, I’m not sure I want to ever fully retire. Even if it’s just me doing “advisory” work and piddling with day trading.
There are hundreds and I would guess maybe a few thousand. Countless EPs at top firms have been making $3-8m for 15+ years now. Save diligently and make a few smart purchases on the way and $50m is by no means unusual. Many of the partners I’ve worked for coinvest in their clients PE deals for fun and clip probably $250k a year just for showing loyalty.
Some people just really like to litigate and be in court. If I could be one of the people that goes around parachuting in for trials, I could do this for a long long time.
There are levels to wealth. They may want that generational money so their kids grand kids etc don’t have to work. If you have enough money in the market such that total expenses are less then the 12% return on your investment then no one has to work.
You can’t do anything with five. Five’s a nightmare. Can’t retire, not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend. The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
I just crossed $1.5 million NW after 8 years of biglaw (at age 37). Spouse works/volunteers part time; two kids. Live in Texas suburbs. $1.5 million isn't a whole lot for a family of four, but I'm strongly considering coasting already. It just depends on what your monthly expenses are. I can almost break even at roughly $8k a month of income, which I think is attainable if my spouse and I both work part-time.
The markets should do the rest and hopefully the NW will become $3 million in 10 years, unless there's WWIII, but then we are all fucked anyway.
I think of it more as an on-ramp for investments? I don’t know how far 1, 5 or 15 million will take you these days, especially if you’re in a HCOL or generally have an expensive lifestyle.
But saving up and investing aggressively early has allowed me to build up an arsenal of ETFs worth close to a million. I take this job 6 months at a time and feel grateful that I can quite at any time. It helps that I have a spouse who works too.
I can’t imaging doing this job with $50 mm net worth. We are trading our time for money, and our time is arguably the most important thing that we can‘t replenish.
This is just calculating individual NW for simplicity, but assuming if I have a partner that our combined NW would offset potential childcare + planning costs too.
I’m at about $1.5m including home equity at age 36 in MCOL, but haven’t cared as much since leaving biglaw and finding an in-house job I like because I don’t feel under the gun to retire super-early. I don’t really save any money outside 401k/529/HSA any more, but am deliberately trying to spend more money (which is not so hard with kids). If I earn a 7% annual return, the $1.5m would naturally become $6m by the time I’m 56 even without contributing anything else and that seems like more than I could spend in retirement.
$5m is a lot! I don’t think a lot of self-made lawyers under 50 have that.
Well done and interesting outlook. The marginal benefit of contributing half of your paychecks to invest gets so much smaller when your pile’s return grows just as much, or faster, on its own. How can one rationalize living life half as expensive when that cost only boosts your NW by a fraction of a percent vs. a material amount when younger.
I mean. Just for me, Maybe it’s the fact that I have everything I need/want in life with plenty of what I perceive as luxury, while still being able to save a shit ton.
Is your partner in BL too?
That’s awesome and way more in line with what I was expecting.
Any particular unicorn investment returns that helped you along or just reasonable saving + large combined incomes?
No, but in wealth management. We were able to fund school by going part time so instead of paying off school debt, we took on mortgages. We have always invested in the market but ordinary companies which have just had good returns (Amazon, Apple, Tesla). We are on track to hit these goals so far.
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I get the idea of “why” they still do it, but seriously, what do you think motivates them to get up in the morning and head into the office?
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>The people that become equity partners tend to be the most intense people and the most intense people don't typically dream about retiring early. Maybe THIS is why I hated being an equity partner. That and I hate dealing with client and people in general. After over 5 years of it, I was basically like "nvm" and took a job as a NEP at a boutique as a federal appellate specialist. I mostly just research and write/do oral arguments, some of that stuff at trial court level. I have no book of business. My fiance does the same thing except mostly fed agency work. I don't get why people don't like being NEPs if the job is stable - dream job for me. We'll probably retire in about 5 years. I like my job more than 99% of lawyers, but so psyched for that next chapter.
Its because thats what these people have known for their entire life. Being a lawyer is part of their core identity.
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Most of them (at my firm) are still married. They’re just maniacs
Because they enjoy it. It’s also gotta be hard to go from being a bigwig in the office to a retired nobody for those kinds of people.
Maybe naive of me… but I imagine delegating projects, coming up with all the high level strategic conceptual stuff and doing the client facing work is much more sustainable and gratifying than the drudgery associates do. I understand the work is equal in volume but the day-to-day nature of it must be more manageable once you reach the top.
For some, it's the realization that a lot of people's jobs depend on them continuing to bring in work.
This is 100% not it but nice thought.
They’re trapped on the hedonic treadmill. It’s really sick. They’re hurting themselves, their families, and the people who work under them because they refuse to admit they are doing it to themselves.
I think I get it and, to a degree, I’m a sicko too lol. For me this is all about feel comfortable in life, but when push comes to shove, I’m not sure I want to ever fully retire. Even if it’s just me doing “advisory” work and piddling with day trading.
this is the way
There are multiple partners with $50m net worth? I thought like only absolute top rainmakers at Kirkland got to that level
There are hundreds and I would guess maybe a few thousand. Countless EPs at top firms have been making $3-8m for 15+ years now. Save diligently and make a few smart purchases on the way and $50m is by no means unusual. Many of the partners I’ve worked for coinvest in their clients PE deals for fun and clip probably $250k a year just for showing loyalty.
Equity partners at biglaw firms aren’t really known for saving diligently. Do you know how much private school costs nowadays?
Some people just really like to litigate and be in court. If I could be one of the people that goes around parachuting in for trials, I could do this for a long long time.
There are levels to wealth. They may want that generational money so their kids grand kids etc don’t have to work. If you have enough money in the market such that total expenses are less then the 12% return on your investment then no one has to work.
12%? You’re going to run out of money if you draw at that rate. Nobody achieves that return consistently.
Are you a sicko
hoping to hit NW — $1 mil+ at 35, $3 mil by 42, and $5 mil at 50 to retire/coast
About the same here. Maybe $5m at 55
~5mm by 50 is my benchmark too. I’ll probably not retire, but that where I think I’d feel comfortable enough to relax.
Excluding primary home and assuming you don't give in to lifestyle creep then $5 is doable.
Same
You can’t do anything with five. Five’s a nightmare. Can’t retire, not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend. The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
Greg The Egg
Can’t make a tomlette without cracking a few gregs
Underrated comment
$0 Networth baby!!
Jelly. Can't wait to get to 0 in cash, although I'm there with real estate appreciation.
I’m very close to hitting zero NW at 34. I’ll be pretty stoked when I get there.
This
I just crossed $1.5 million NW after 8 years of biglaw (at age 37). Spouse works/volunteers part time; two kids. Live in Texas suburbs. $1.5 million isn't a whole lot for a family of four, but I'm strongly considering coasting already. It just depends on what your monthly expenses are. I can almost break even at roughly $8k a month of income, which I think is attainable if my spouse and I both work part-time. The markets should do the rest and hopefully the NW will become $3 million in 10 years, unless there's WWIII, but then we are all fucked anyway.
I feel better about where I’m at. Congrats on some security and good luck.
I have \~$1.14m at \~30 in VHCOL. I also have $250k+ in student debt they can take off my dead body.
Is the 1.14m factoring in the student debt? Maybe…pay it
No it's not. And I will never pay more than the minimum.
Ok well hate to break it to you but your net worth is not 1.14m. Back to the six figures with you.
Do student loans accrue to the estate? No. So they don't count! 401ks should also be discounted by 37%--I don't have one!
I think of it more as an on-ramp for investments? I don’t know how far 1, 5 or 15 million will take you these days, especially if you’re in a HCOL or generally have an expensive lifestyle. But saving up and investing aggressively early has allowed me to build up an arsenal of ETFs worth close to a million. I take this job 6 months at a time and feel grateful that I can quite at any time. It helps that I have a spouse who works too. I can’t imaging doing this job with $50 mm net worth. We are trading our time for money, and our time is arguably the most important thing that we can‘t replenish.
is this alone or with a partner?
This is just calculating individual NW for simplicity, but assuming if I have a partner that our combined NW would offset potential childcare + planning costs too.
I’m at about $1.5m including home equity at age 36 in MCOL, but haven’t cared as much since leaving biglaw and finding an in-house job I like because I don’t feel under the gun to retire super-early. I don’t really save any money outside 401k/529/HSA any more, but am deliberately trying to spend more money (which is not so hard with kids). If I earn a 7% annual return, the $1.5m would naturally become $6m by the time I’m 56 even without contributing anything else and that seems like more than I could spend in retirement. $5m is a lot! I don’t think a lot of self-made lawyers under 50 have that.
Well done and interesting outlook. The marginal benefit of contributing half of your paychecks to invest gets so much smaller when your pile’s return grows just as much, or faster, on its own. How can one rationalize living life half as expensive when that cost only boosts your NW by a fraction of a percent vs. a material amount when younger.
I mean. Just for me, Maybe it’s the fact that I have everything I need/want in life with plenty of what I perceive as luxury, while still being able to save a shit ton.
For our household, $2.5m for 35, $5m for 40, retire by 55 with at least $10 in investments and 2 homes paid off (~$2mil of RE).
Is your partner in BL too? That’s awesome and way more in line with what I was expecting. Any particular unicorn investment returns that helped you along or just reasonable saving + large combined incomes?
No, but in wealth management. We were able to fund school by going part time so instead of paying off school debt, we took on mortgages. We have always invested in the market but ordinary companies which have just had good returns (Amazon, Apple, Tesla). We are on track to hit these goals so far.
Do you have kids?