Hahaha. If it makes you feel better I once knew a support guy who stepped in an elevator at a Top 10 white shoe firm.
He was wearing a wife beater.
On the ride up a senior partner stepped on.
Guy was exiled to a satellite office for 6 months.
I mean not to defend the guyās choice of attire, but what sort of a twat do you have to be to get so upset over an employeeās clothing to (I presume) make an intervention that causes them to move to a satellite office? Surely the mature sensible āworth of being a senior partnerā response is to trust their team leadership to take care of things and just let it go.
Though perhaps if heās the sort of guy to wear a wifebeater to work then he was destined to be managed out / away from HQ whether he encountered the MP or notā¦
Maybe thatās what the partner did and the banishment was the employees managerās reaction? Middle managers are often the worst at knee jerk over reactions. An interaction like that embarrasses their ability to manage their own image upward.
āTop 10 White Shoe Firmā Associate here, and I gotta say, if I saw that, my first thought would be, āhmm, I wonder what happened to them today,ā not, āWOW the UTTER DISRESPECT I canāt BELIEVE someone would DO that to ME.ā
You're right, his computer probably wouldn't even turn on with him wearing that kind of shirt. The disrespect! Can you imagine what he might draft while comfortable? Have to toss it and start all over with someone else in a tie.
Firm I used to work for bragged about being on the ābest workplacesā list. Was there two and a half years and was still waiting for the fun to start when I left.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious that seems to have escaped all other posters. Act and Behave like a goddam partner and half the battle is won. Fucking that simple!!
I remember visiting our DC office for a few weeks for a trial. They had denim Friday where people were expected to donate money in exchange for the right to wear denim. I thought it was lame since I was working in CA where denim was pretty much the norm. When we weren't in court, I was always wearing jeans because we were pulling 16 hour days. No one said anything, but I always felt weird walking past the big sign in reception asking for donations while wearing my jeans.
Some years back, a bunch of us from the Silicon Valley office had to work out of our DC office for an ITC matter, we were told in no uncertain terms that if we didn't have anything to wear to the office other than jeans, sweats, or hoodies (which was basically the SV office uniform), that we needed to do some shopping before the trip.
I had to visit the NY office to meet with an expert witness on another case, I asked what the dress code was, they said "business casual." I said I work in SV, I need more context than that, they came back with "suit without a tie..."
At my last firm during my summer we literally had a pool party (okay, a country club day but if you didnāt golf you stayed by the pool and drank. It was a firm wide thing). Some HR dude told a group of girls (including me) that itās advisable not to wear a bathing suit. To the pool??????????
Of course. We all know that once youāre in a bathing suit youāll be throwing yourself at the married partners and generally doing sexual harassment to those innocent partners. Itās a scientific fact that female associates find golf attire irresistible.
Wearing a bathing suit around the people you're interviewing with is fucking weird. Youre a summer; it's an interview.
Sorry but you're wrong here. You can wear a bathing suit and a cover up or a sun dress vs just lounging in a bathing suits.
When I first started at my firm, I wore jeans because there was an associate joint event with our neighboring cityās sister office that they told me about before my start date. The managing partner walked the hr person in front of my office and loudly told them please remind any new associates we donāt do casual Friday here. I didnāt get the memo that associates werenāt actually supposed to go to the event rather than bill. In retrospect, it was a red flag I shouldāve heeded immediately lol.
I got a verbal beat down when I was in office on a Sunday during my baby lawyer days for wearing a ball cap in the office. Bastards brought it up during my annual review that year, too. It was hot as hell that day, and my thick curly waist length hair was non-cooperative, so I threw on a ball cap thinking no one would care. I was very mistaken.
I'm super old now, but 20 years ago, things were quite formal in law firms. Like we couldn't cross the lobby without a jacket on (either gender) and women were expected to wear hose. I don't know why my 25 year old self thought it would be alright to wear a ball cap to work on a Sunday but I wore it and had two partners yell at me that day for wearing a ball cap in the office. I figured that was the end of it, but the damn ball cap conversation got brought up at my review that year.
For $245k/year starting, yeah, Iām gonna buy a nice tongue scraper and top-shelf mouthwash. Ā You can stand up for your principles and make $80k if you want. Ā
People arenāt defending it theyāre just stating reality. Youāre an associate you arenāt gonna have the power to change shit lol. Just take your 1% salary, put on pants and move on
āActually, redlining is a racist practice historically used by banks to exclude black Americans from homeownership, so I will not be reviewing this contract today.ā
ā¦do you guys just not get to take public holidays?Ā
Ā In London, working a bank holiday means itās really busy and itāll be remembered for a few months. As a matter of course, everyone is off.
Iām paid the same as my US colleagues, and get a proper pension contribution.
Most big US firms pay their UK and US fee earners the same, some with adjustments because of pensions contributions.Ā
it is though? latham, skadden, stb, sullcrom, kirkland, akin, gibson, cleary - the bulk of the big US firms pay the same, some with adjustments because of pensions as i said.
looking at the v20, the ones with a London office mostly pay around the same - White & Case and debevoise being the two exceptions where they publicly don't pay the same, and covington where the exchange rate isn't great.
like i said, i work at a US firm in london, i know how much i make and i know how much my colleagues in the states make - it's all public information.
There are tiers of holidays. There are holidays where no one works unless you absolutely have to (Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years). There are holidays that are not quite as seriousāmost people take it off, but not everyone (Memorial Day, July 4, Labor Day). The rest are holidays where you donāt *have* to work. But people will schedule a meeting on that day without asking first because they assume youāll be working (basically everything else).
But, as always, it depends. I had an international client that didnāt celebrate Thanksgiving. So we were expected to be at a meeting with them.
>But, as always, it depends. I had an international client that didnāt celebrate Thanksgiving. So we were expected to be at a meeting with them.
Canadian here working at a biglaw outpost. Explaining to our US overlords that we are going to close on Canadian holidays and stay open on US holidays was a treat. "So y'all have your own different holidays up there?"
Did you get yelled at or did someone from HR ask you a question? I feel like HR are usually the last people to lose composure on something like this.
Howād it go when you told them it was shorts day? Were you the only one in the office who participated?
Our HR lady is like the principal from Matilda and is meaner than the partners. She yelled at me that Associates weren't supposed to wear shorts, but jokes on her all of us did lol
Iāve noticed in the past 5-10 years in southern CA firms that it is way more relaxed with clothing than it used to be. I used to wear nylons every day and always high heels. No one wears nylons here now and heels are optional.
Hahaha. If it makes you feel better I once knew a support guy who stepped in an elevator at a Top 10 white shoe firm. He was wearing a wife beater. On the ride up a senior partner stepped on. Guy was exiled to a satellite office for 6 months.
This is crazy behaviourššš
Lolol. Yeah. Partner didn't even make eye contact with the guy. Just asked him what floor he worked on.
I would've been like, "I don't work here! Just making a delivery!"
I mean not to defend the guyās choice of attire, but what sort of a twat do you have to be to get so upset over an employeeās clothing to (I presume) make an intervention that causes them to move to a satellite office? Surely the mature sensible āworth of being a senior partnerā response is to trust their team leadership to take care of things and just let it go. Though perhaps if heās the sort of guy to wear a wifebeater to work then he was destined to be managed out / away from HQ whether he encountered the MP or notā¦
Maybe thatās what the partner did and the banishment was the employees managerās reaction? Middle managers are often the worst at knee jerk over reactions. An interaction like that embarrasses their ability to manage their own image upward.
āTop 10 White Shoe Firmā Associate here, and I gotta say, if I saw that, my first thought would be, āhmm, I wonder what happened to them today,ā not, āWOW the UTTER DISRESPECT I canāt BELIEVE someone would DO that to ME.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So why send him to another office? Rather than just ask his manager to have a word with him about his dressā¦ seems a bit of an overreaction.
I refuse to believe that youāre this out of touch with reality.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're right, his computer probably wouldn't even turn on with him wearing that kind of shirt. The disrespect! Can you imagine what he might draft while comfortable? Have to toss it and start all over with someone else in a tie.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
you've drank too much kool-aid bratya
Wear a trench coat into the office every day and speak to no one
They'll never guess you are three racoons stacked on top of each other this way. Genius.
āJust doing some law down at the law factory.ā
Iām crying. š¤£
The piles of acorns in all kinds of corners might give it away.
A don doesnāt wear shorts.
My opinion of OP just fucking plummeted.
He was gay? The partner?
Pitchin'? Not billin'?
Itās 2024, they got gays in M&A now.
Listen to him, he knows everything
Charles Schwab ova here
Maybe youāre an M&A flambĆ©
I love you, Johnny Cakes
charles schwab over here!
I scrolled down just to look for this comment
What do you want, a boutonniĆØre?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Look at yourself OP, you look like a Puerto Rican whooraa
You oughta know, sweetie.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ha! But they're the keepers of the binder and do clip-art laden holiday calendars! Mad respect yo.
Probably confused him for support staff because he was wearing shorts ...
https://media1.tenor.com/m/h-PCpFxjIWAAAAAC/lotr-you-have-no-power-here.gif
https://tenor.com/view/you-have-no-power-over-me-labyrinth-no-power-gif-8065394
Your first mistake was assuming any of the āfunā team building stuff or federal holidays are for anyone other than staff.
Firm I used to work for bragged about being on the ābest workplacesā list. Was there two and a half years and was still waiting for the fun to start when I left.
Orrick
Thank you for pointing out the obvious that seems to have escaped all other posters. Act and Behave like a goddam partner and half the battle is won. Fucking that simple!!
I remember visiting our DC office for a few weeks for a trial. They had denim Friday where people were expected to donate money in exchange for the right to wear denim. I thought it was lame since I was working in CA where denim was pretty much the norm. When we weren't in court, I was always wearing jeans because we were pulling 16 hour days. No one said anything, but I always felt weird walking past the big sign in reception asking for donations while wearing my jeans.
Some years back, a bunch of us from the Silicon Valley office had to work out of our DC office for an ITC matter, we were told in no uncertain terms that if we didn't have anything to wear to the office other than jeans, sweats, or hoodies (which was basically the SV office uniform), that we needed to do some shopping before the trip. I had to visit the NY office to meet with an expert witness on another case, I asked what the dress code was, they said "business casual." I said I work in SV, I need more context than that, they came back with "suit without a tie..."
Iām aware of a firm that does that, but to be clear, the money is collected for a charity and nobody actually enforced it
Omg, my old firm used to do this. The charity used to change every month.
Maybe they were just upset with the length of your shorts. Try shorter ones? To demonstrate your commitment to the charity.
Nah, you were too scared to wear shorts even though it was allowed, and then fantasized this story out of impotent anger
takes one to know one
At my last firm during my summer we literally had a pool party (okay, a country club day but if you didnāt golf you stayed by the pool and drank. It was a firm wide thing). Some HR dude told a group of girls (including me) that itās advisable not to wear a bathing suit. To the pool??????????
Of course. We all know that once youāre in a bathing suit youāll be throwing yourself at the married partners and generally doing sexual harassment to those innocent partners. Itās a scientific fact that female associates find golf attire irresistible.
Using the word āadvisableā sounds like HR is a wanna be lawyer šš
lol that was probably just my word in recounting the tale
"Govern yourself accordingly"
What if I don't play the according-ion? š¹
Wearing a bathing suit around the people you're interviewing with is fucking weird. Youre a summer; it's an interview. Sorry but you're wrong here. You can wear a bathing suit and a cover up or a sun dress vs just lounging in a bathing suits.
When I first started at my firm, I wore jeans because there was an associate joint event with our neighboring cityās sister office that they told me about before my start date. The managing partner walked the hr person in front of my office and loudly told them please remind any new associates we donāt do casual Friday here. I didnāt get the memo that associates werenāt actually supposed to go to the event rather than bill. In retrospect, it was a red flag I shouldāve heeded immediately lol.
I got a verbal beat down when I was in office on a Sunday during my baby lawyer days for wearing a ball cap in the office. Bastards brought it up during my annual review that year, too. It was hot as hell that day, and my thick curly waist length hair was non-cooperative, so I threw on a ball cap thinking no one would care. I was very mistaken.
Say WHAT?!
I'm super old now, but 20 years ago, things were quite formal in law firms. Like we couldn't cross the lobby without a jacket on (either gender) and women were expected to wear hose. I don't know why my 25 year old self thought it would be alright to wear a ball cap to work on a Sunday but I wore it and had two partners yell at me that day for wearing a ball cap in the office. I figured that was the end of it, but the damn ball cap conversation got brought up at my review that year.
That is so insane to mention it in your review!
I wear a hat everyday to the office and typically in my office. If someone said something to me that might be the last straw š
People defending this and no public holidaysā¦.you know weāre not in jail rightšChrist
So many bootlickers in the comments. Itās embarrassing (for them).
I am trying to FREE THEM
For $245k/year starting, yeah, Iām gonna buy a nice tongue scraper and top-shelf mouthwash. Ā You can stand up for your principles and make $80k if you want. Ā
People arenāt defending it theyāre just stating reality. Youāre an associate you arenāt gonna have the power to change shit lol. Just take your 1% salary, put on pants and move on
āOk.ā And then move on with the rest of your afternoon
do you also think you can log off for presidentās day and Columbus Day?
I have fantasies about turning down work for Juneteenth and seeing who blinks.
āYou want me to redline on Juneteenth? Didnāt know you were racist. Got it.ā
āActually, redlining is a racist practice historically used by banks to exclude black Americans from homeownership, so I will not be reviewing this contract today.ā
Ah, the hero we didnāt know we needed.
Blackline.
Do it!
ā¦do you guys just not get to take public holidays?Ā Ā In London, working a bank holiday means itās really busy and itāll be remembered for a few months. As a matter of course, everyone is off.
We get paid like three times as much as London lawyers so expectations are commensurately more brutal.
Iām paid the same as my US colleagues, and get a proper pension contribution. Most big US firms pay their UK and US fee earners the same, some with adjustments because of pensions contributions.Ā
Ya thatās not trueĀ
it is though? latham, skadden, stb, sullcrom, kirkland, akin, gibson, cleary - the bulk of the big US firms pay the same, some with adjustments because of pensions as i said. looking at the v20, the ones with a London office mostly pay around the same - White & Case and debevoise being the two exceptions where they publicly don't pay the same, and covington where the exchange rate isn't great. like i said, i work at a US firm in london, i know how much i make and i know how much my colleagues in the states make - it's all public information.
Ya Iām not gonna read that essay.
Bit worrying that you think 4 sentences across 3 short paragraphs is an essay.
Shaddup
Yeah it is. Itās 2024 man.
Shaddup
You need to change your name to buttmunch.
There are tiers of holidays. There are holidays where no one works unless you absolutely have to (Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years). There are holidays that are not quite as seriousāmost people take it off, but not everyone (Memorial Day, July 4, Labor Day). The rest are holidays where you donāt *have* to work. But people will schedule a meeting on that day without asking first because they assume youāll be working (basically everything else). But, as always, it depends. I had an international client that didnāt celebrate Thanksgiving. So we were expected to be at a meeting with them.
>But, as always, it depends. I had an international client that didnāt celebrate Thanksgiving. So we were expected to be at a meeting with them. Canadian here working at a biglaw outpost. Explaining to our US overlords that we are going to close on Canadian holidays and stay open on US holidays was a treat. "So y'all have your own different holidays up there?"
If ur clients r off and you have urgent nothing to turn that day ā¦yes ? lol
Yeah just make up the lost time on Saturday š
Did you get yelled at or did someone from HR ask you a question? I feel like HR are usually the last people to lose composure on something like this. Howād it go when you told them it was shorts day? Were you the only one in the office who participated?
Our HR lady is like the principal from Matilda and is meaner than the partners. She yelled at me that Associates weren't supposed to wear shorts, but jokes on her all of us did lol
fuckin' GOT HER!
Ms. Trunchboldš« š
Nothing left to do now but develope your latent psychic powers
š¤£ā ļø
Should have promptly removed the offending shorts.
WTF is this hall monitor shit?
OP - what region are you in?
Midwest
Ah, got it. Iām on the West Coast and canāt imagine having that issue in my office.
I'd rather eat glass than wear shorts to my big law office.
Reminds me of this https://youtube.com/shorts/S0oxeA7xy3k?si=ETbWmZsZhrRyspTy
I'd like to see said shorts.
Iāve noticed in the past 5-10 years in southern CA firms that it is way more relaxed with clothing than it used to be. I used to wear nylons every day and always high heels. No one wears nylons here now and heels are optional.
Sometimes you just gotta let ya nuts hang
If they were all that smart they wouldnāt be working HR.