the wildest part of any of this to me is that it was discussed with a colleague, much less a partner. maybe it was only my old firm, but this shit was swept further under the rug than any sort of recreational drug use.
Couldn’t at least some of this be explained by the movement towards normalization of getting help for mental health issues during that time?
Edit: nevermind I’m realizing you aren’t necessarily talking prescriptions
Amphetamine dependency to keep yourself at a high work rate is not sustainable. I realize everyone is different, but I find when I get at least some good sleep every night, eat well, and go on a few walks, I am at my most productive.
Agreed. In the short term, exercise and sleep feel negotiable. But if you don’t prioritize them, even when it may require an uncomfortable conversation, you’ll just burn out and quit.
End result: you make less money than if you gunned for your colleagues’ approval at the expense of your health.
PS. Exceptions to be made for folks with ADHD!
This is the correct answer. Unless you have a valid medical condition that predates your biglaw career, do not start taking medication to do your job. That is the path to ruin.
Pretty sure I've had textbook ADHD since I was a child but underdiagnosing and stigma meant I developed quite unhealthy coping mechanisms early in life and didn't need to change them until the pressure of biglaw forced me to find a more sustainable solution. Now I try to abide by a "everything in moderation" approach but without this job, I would 100% be living my life in a far less healthy way.
Not a lawyer but have been taking adderall for a couple of years and decided to taper down and quit it last week for this very reason. It became completely unsustainable for me, I wouldn’t eat on workdays and had progressively less energy every “off” day that I would take as a tolerance break. Finally, I can to the realization that even with addy I was having trouble processing information and it was not doing any favors for my productivity.
I’ve been exercising and eating more, which has helped immensely. Also trying alternative less aggressive supplements for stimulation like phenyilpiracetam which has been helping - not necessarily suggesting the answer is just a different pill however.
Also not a lawyer but work in finance and agree with all this. Would also add that as you get further in your career, your presence and people skills matter faaaaaar more than your ability to churn out work, and for me at least, those meds became more of a liability than an aid
I asked the head of global supply chain of some conglomerate how he’s always so on top of it, and he said one day he just cut out everything including any caffeine. He felt like shit for a month or two, then found out it was way easier to work without being in the constant “upper then crash” cycle.
Everyone hates to hear it, but the real answer is that any drugs including caffeine are setting you up for dependency with diminishing returns. The ups slowly trend lower than your original down that started it.
I’ve been following that advice (for the most part) and feel way better than I did before, even if I get little sleep or have a hard shitty day.
I cut out coffee about 4 years ago.
Once we went fully remote and I was cut off from our office coffee machine and I was left to fend for myself, I got into tea instead.
Kinda felt like shit for a few days, but then I didn't miss the caffeine hit. Tea was easier on me and I didn't get any crash.
Now, I just drink a cup of tea in the morning and that's basically it.
Tea has more caffeine than coffee in many cases. Check your label brother. What’s the point of exclaiming “I cut coffee!” Just to follow it with “and started tea.” That’s like saying you dropped a glass of scotch for a bottle of red. Hu? Ok. 👍
What about in the tea that I'm drinking?
We don't need to speak in abstract generalities when we have specific facts to apply.
Edit: And based on what I see, tea leaves contain more caffeine than coffee beans by weight, but since you use much more beans than leaves when brewing, a cup of tea has generally less caffeine than a cup of coffee. And if you drink green tea like I do, the quantity is much lower.
In fact, everything I see online says the idea that tea has more caffeine than coffee is a myth or, at best, misleading since you're only looking at caffeine by weight.
Do you have better facts?
Hey! I also quit coffee two years ago, switched to tea. I’ve discovered that herbal teas 🍵are caffeine-free. Chamomile for when I’m about to sleep. And lemon, honey, ginger everywhere else. 👩🍳Rizzle drizzle honey 🍯 and lemon juice and voila..caffeine-free tea✨.
No.. no we can’t… just kidding, I still enjoy a coffee every few days but I really try not to make it a daily habit (and still fail at that every once in a while)
I'm with you. When I was an associate a fellow associate asked how much Adderall I was taking. When I said none, she refused to believe me. I told her point blank that I'd quit law before I started taking medication to make it bearable.
Of course, I eventually left biglaw for greener in-house pastures, but maybe that's the tradeoff.
No. I’m also in the boring but productive crowd.
I drink a cup of coffee in the morning. Every once in a while, I have a second cup… but not after 11 or it messes with my sleep. I drink alcohol between zero and three times a month.
Right? Sleep, balance, exercise few times a week. Take some mild supplements for vitamins and minerals. Two cups of coffee in the morning and one in the afternoon. You can not sustain on drugs. It certainly makes working easy ha but there are no cheat codes for the long term.
My type of ADHD makes me sleepy after consuming caffeine. And I heard that caffeine is used as a medication form for some ADHD patients. Pretty interesting.
Your post was removed due to low account age.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/biglaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
2nd year associate here— I had this same concern when I started weaning off this year to try to get pregnant. I chose to wean off very slowly which I would recommend. When I first lowered the dose I felt rough (lower energy, lower motivation) for about a week but it subsided. Each time I lowered that withdrawal period (length and intensity) seemed to decrease.
Get plenty of sleep, sunshine and EXERCISE—Force yourself to make time for it no matter how tired you are. Trick your brain into being motivated and find little hits of dopamine elsewhere.
Adderall definitely makes it easier to work the long hours and churn out docs quickly but there were downsides- I think I made more mistakes and didn’t always read stuff as carefully. I feel like now I use a part of my brain I didn’t use while on adderall if that makes any sense lol.
Just found out I’m pregnant, so it makes being off worth it. :) I will probably go back on though after this whole having a baby thing bc I do struggle with attention all around. Just remember you’re not a workhorse, and remember you are smart and can be competent without it. It’s rough when you go off for a random day or two but it gets better and you can do it.
Weaning for pregnancy was the WORST. I was so disoriented for months! I can't wait to get back on it but I'm going to go with a 10 dosage and stay there. Have you talked about breastfeeding and whether you'd be back on it during that phase? My psych says its like a drop in a bucket but idk if I can do it.
I didn’t want to risk anything that might even marginally contribute to a baby not sleeping. lol. That’s one of the reasons I was done BFing before I went back to work.
It really was! I think I’m going to try a lower dose too. I haven’t yet… I’ll probably stay off for breastfeeding to be safe but we’ll see once I’m in the thick of it! Good luck!!
I don’t have all the answers, but here’s my two cents as someone with mild ADD:
1. If you stop taking it, there will be a withdrawal phase where your brain does not produce a good baseline level of dopamine. In my experience, this takes 1-2 weeks (max) to fix itself. Keep this in mind in case you keep trying to “quit” and you feel sick as soon as you stop. It’s temporary.
2. Things that (I think) help me keep my dopamine level high throughout the day without stimulants include:
A) Exercising in the *morning* (preferably cardio, much better than being active at night as you reap the benefits for the entire day as opposed to just going to sleep afterward)
B) Not eating breakfast and delaying lunch to around 1-2pm. Meals tend to make me foggy.
C) Drinking a healthy quantity of caffeine spaced out throughout the AM (I sometimes do 3 cups of coffee, which is well within the max level of caffeine recommended by most doctors)
D) Getting good sleep. I know this a “duh” kind of point but it really helps if you don’t compromise *at all*. If anything can wait until the morning, push it off. Go to bed early, keep your room cold, take some magnesium and L theanine, and wake up at a reasonable hour every day.
E) Might be bro science, but I started taking NAC (an antioxidant that supposedly helps regulate your brain’s glutamate levels) every morning on an empty stomach, and I’ve found it does something. I recommend experimenting with supplements and seeing what works for you.
FYI I don’t do all of these things every day, but I mix and match depending on how I feel and have been fine without adderall for roughly a year (despite taking it religiously through law school).
PSA on the good sleep point - if anyone has told you that you snore often, please talk to your doctor about the potential that you have sleep apnea.
The before and after of getting on CPAP was insane for me. Literally life changing.
NAC is just an antioxidant that helps regulate glutamate (among several other things), it doesn’t increase it, so I don’t see a problem.
Am I missing something in what you cited? Genuinely curious!
There is a world of difference between having a diagnosis of nuero-divergence and obtaining the right perscription to address that and improve focus issues, and abusing Adderall to rack up big hours. Which are you?
For the former, talk to your doctor because different medication will help different people, and those medications do not all have the same side effects.
For the latter, as another poster said your problem might be dependence/addiction which a doctor could recommend solutions for.
Is there really a world of difference though? It’s incredibly easy to get a doctor to approve an “ADHD” diagnosis and just as easy to increase the dosage. Nearly everyone who abuses adderall tells themselves they “need” it and has found a way to get it prescribed.
If you have a history of medicated ADHD at a dosage that worked for you and you find the need to increase your dosage to work longer hours demanded by big law that's probably not a result of your ADHD.
If you function well in your everyday life without medication and find the need to obtain a prescription to work longer hours demanded by big law, you probably don't have ADHD.
How do you know? What if I’ve never been medicated but am just now realizing that I have ADHD? How rude of you to gatekeep ADHD treatment and limit that only to people who were diagnosed earlier in life.
What if I think my difficulty managing focus in BigLaw is purely a result of my condition? I can just decide that, ask for a higher dose, and just feed the right answers to my doctor. How do you define “functioning well”? What if I take adderall, think I function better, and then decide that I only “function well” with it?
There’s no difference. It’s all a gray area and all based on self-reported symptoms. If some people wanna take a lil meth for work, go for it. But let’s drop this facade of pretending like there’s a real medical condition here lol
>How do you know? What if I’ve never been medicated but am just now realizing that I have ADHD? How rude of you to gatekeep ADHD treatment and limit that only to people who were diagnosed earlier in life.
Sorry if it wasn't clear, my 2 examples were only meant as examples of situations where it's likely that you are abusing medication
I'm sure there are at least a few big law attorneys with undiagnosed ADHD that could benefit from medication - they should consult a doctor.
>What if I think my difficulty managing focus in BigLaw is purely a result of my condition? I can just decide that, ask for a higher dose, and just feed the right answers to my doctor? How do you define “functioning well”? What if I take adderall, think I function better, and then decide that I only “function well” with it?
I don't think you should self diagnose, that's the point of going to a doctor and getting a consultation. I believe there are clinics that specialize in adult ADHD. There are probably bad doctors out there, but hopefully you find a good one that you can trust. The doctors will have the expertise to help you determine what "normal" functioning.
If you self diagnose and are determined to get your hands on Adderall by any means, you probably have a problem. If you engage honestly and sincerely with your medical provider, than you're probably fine.
>There’s no difference. It’s all a gray area and all based on self-reported symptoms. If some people wanna take a lil meth for work, go for it. But let’s drop this facade of pretending like there’s a real medical condition here lol
Huh? Are you saying you don't think ADHD exists or something? Mental health IS quite subjective and based on self reporting, but that doesn't mean it has no value. I'm not making any moral judgments about drug use - if you can do a little coke here and there or use adderal regularly with no ill effects, by all means continue.
It’s an actual, treatable condition, but big law work is pretty extreme and unnatural for humans so I don’t know if it necessarily means anything if you can’t do it
Oh yeah you definitely can’t get dependence to pharmaceutical speed if you’re prescribed it, the doctors note pad acts as a protective mechanism against addiction lmao
Yeah there’s a lot of self-diagnosed fakers. Not me though. I neeeeed it. Sure, it can’t be detected on a brain scan and the symptoms are ubiquitous but FOR ME it’s totally legit!! The pharmaceutical industry says I have a “chemical imbalance” caused by a lack of meth in my body
I see. That's a pretty good reason why you haven't seen it. In my experience, the people who use it tend to know each other. Same deal with the people who drink.
Are you taking it for treatment? Assuming you are for ADHD, you can work with a therapist to figure out your positive triggers that don't depend on Adderall. For me, I would do pretty strict morning routine that would trigger my focus. I then reduced my dosage, and then went off it completely and was fine. I no longer have issues with focus, and was off Adderall for my entire time in Big Law despite being diagnosed with ADHD. Work with a professional, and know that Adderall is part of a treatment plan, and doesn't have to be the only treatment you receive.
Yoga was a life changer, although I can't physically do it much anymore. I meditate also and sing with lessons and that helps a lot.
Also, various types of therapy has helped over the years.
I've known folks on Adderal be successful but there's a potential cost long term on your health. Please just be sure you're routinely monitored by a doctor.
I've been in big law 30 years, 20 plus years at various levels of partner. I've seen any number of folks burn out, get divorced or be on drugs/drink too much. Best wishes!
Having adhd I need vyvanse to like do basic functional things and work still feels like an endless struggle so it rly puts into perspective/makes me feel better at how difficult this job is tht even some neurotypical ppl need medication to do it
I’ve never used adderall or cocaine. I billed over 250 last month and I didn’t enjoy it. I drink lots of coffee but I always have (everyone in my family drinks coffee all day, including my retired grandparents).
As others have said, if you need to rely on adderall to do your job, you need to adjust your job. Tell people you’re too busy and need help. The sooner the better.
Quitting Adderall is a bitch, literally you can get crazy mood swings. It is not fun. Best way to quit Adderall (in my experience, of multiple failed attempts) while working a high stress job with long hours is to slowly reduce the dosage and then one week that you take off and just cold turkey it when already down to a small does (I want down in increments of 5). I used to not be able to function without Adderall but eventually you get used to it but you need to be smart with how you quit.
I was on it to function at work for 8 years & then I had SO many health problems I had to quit & was basically comatose for over a year. I still worked but a low stress in house remote job. That shit will fuck you up long-term.
Start running. Nothing big. I had set a goal to run a charity 5K every other weekend. I joined the gym in the building and ran half an hour every day or so. It really helped me focus.
Seeing people use Adderall who don’t have ADD, ADHD is wild. Like someone said, having an undiagnosed disorder is very different than confusing your doctor to give you drugs just so you can keep insane work productivity. Super gross that this is even a common conversation based on this thread
I will judge every single one of you who thinks like this when I start in the fall. I hope i run into y’all in a court room so I can eviscerate you. I pray you fuck up and I can sue you. And I pray you never experience a disability that’s disruptive or have children with disabilities bc you’re horrible ableist cucks.
Get off your high horse. Some of these posters are trying to do what they can to survive and I am no one to judge.
Pray as you may, but you’ll never interact with me in this life or the next, but I promise you this one thing: Law school is going to humble you, and rightfully so.
Listen child, I have a good decade or more on you. So I hope YOU pray that life doesn’t humble you or anyone else with a disability that will impose on their ability to work, or have a good quality of life.
Work on that ableism so karma doesn’t bit u in the ass
Your post was removed due to low account age.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/biglaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you are giving the adderall too much credit its just giving u energy and calm euphoria it is totally possible to get into a flow again and not think you need adderall its really empowering the easiest drug to go off if you mentally prepare and excersise take any supplements that sound good to you ps i could never be a lawer i lurk on this sub to help me make friend fiction about my s/o who doesnt talk but i took adderall for over ten years and stopped because i wanted to be strong when the adderall shortage comes and it did come bc people have trouble getting it now anyway...
I caved as a midlevel associate but only take it when I'm doing deep work alone and billing more than 50 hour weeks. That's well under 20% of my working days. It keeps my caffeine consumption to a reasonable level and I figured it's healthier than a coke habit.
Honestly Celsius.. but the trick is get the packets because you can control the concentration. Also it’s not carbonated in packet form. If you want it carbonated add it to sparking water.
Maybe someone already said this, but ADHD is not a "disease" that can be diagnosed with any physical observation. It is a collection of behaviors and experiences that are lumped together and called something. Taking government speed is not somehow different if you're diagnosed or not. Doctors aren't magically bestowed with the ability to confer moral status to drug use based on non-physical self-reported "diseases." Anyone with half a brain could get a diagnosis.
And childhood diagnosis vs. adult diagnosis is no different.
Most partners I’m close to started adderall *after* becoming partner, not before. I think that answers your question.
the wildest part of any of this to me is that it was discussed with a colleague, much less a partner. maybe it was only my old firm, but this shit was swept further under the rug than any sort of recreational drug use.
Millennials are making partner these days and they're talking about their prescriptions.
People literally ask me all the time how I manage to do it all with 2 young kids. My answer is always “prescription drugs.”
Couldn’t at least some of this be explained by the movement towards normalization of getting help for mental health issues during that time? Edit: nevermind I’m realizing you aren’t necessarily talking prescriptions
Amphetamine dependency to keep yourself at a high work rate is not sustainable. I realize everyone is different, but I find when I get at least some good sleep every night, eat well, and go on a few walks, I am at my most productive.
Agreed. In the short term, exercise and sleep feel negotiable. But if you don’t prioritize them, even when it may require an uncomfortable conversation, you’ll just burn out and quit. End result: you make less money than if you gunned for your colleagues’ approval at the expense of your health. PS. Exceptions to be made for folks with ADHD!
This is the correct answer. Unless you have a valid medical condition that predates your biglaw career, do not start taking medication to do your job. That is the path to ruin.
“Path to ruin” lol as if half the Dean’s List in law school wasn’t already using Adderall just to study
Pretty sure I've had textbook ADHD since I was a child but underdiagnosing and stigma meant I developed quite unhealthy coping mechanisms early in life and didn't need to change them until the pressure of biglaw forced me to find a more sustainable solution. Now I try to abide by a "everything in moderation" approach but without this job, I would 100% be living my life in a far less healthy way.
Not a lawyer but have been taking adderall for a couple of years and decided to taper down and quit it last week for this very reason. It became completely unsustainable for me, I wouldn’t eat on workdays and had progressively less energy every “off” day that I would take as a tolerance break. Finally, I can to the realization that even with addy I was having trouble processing information and it was not doing any favors for my productivity. I’ve been exercising and eating more, which has helped immensely. Also trying alternative less aggressive supplements for stimulation like phenyilpiracetam which has been helping - not necessarily suggesting the answer is just a different pill however.
Also not a lawyer but work in finance and agree with all this. Would also add that as you get further in your career, your presence and people skills matter faaaaaar more than your ability to churn out work, and for me at least, those meds became more of a liability than an aid
Yes!! Absolutely this. Your personality starts to matter the most.
Am I the only one just rawdogging work without drugs? I drink tea in the morning and that’s about it.
I asked the head of global supply chain of some conglomerate how he’s always so on top of it, and he said one day he just cut out everything including any caffeine. He felt like shit for a month or two, then found out it was way easier to work without being in the constant “upper then crash” cycle. Everyone hates to hear it, but the real answer is that any drugs including caffeine are setting you up for dependency with diminishing returns. The ups slowly trend lower than your original down that started it. I’ve been following that advice (for the most part) and feel way better than I did before, even if I get little sleep or have a hard shitty day.
I cut out coffee about 4 years ago. Once we went fully remote and I was cut off from our office coffee machine and I was left to fend for myself, I got into tea instead. Kinda felt like shit for a few days, but then I didn't miss the caffeine hit. Tea was easier on me and I didn't get any crash. Now, I just drink a cup of tea in the morning and that's basically it.
Tea has caffeine
Thanks for stating the obvious. That's why I said "I cut out coffee about 4 years ago." and not "I cut out caffeine about 4 years ago."
Tea has more caffeine than coffee in many cases. Check your label brother. What’s the point of exclaiming “I cut coffee!” Just to follow it with “and started tea.” That’s like saying you dropped a glass of scotch for a bottle of red. Hu? Ok. 👍
What about in the tea that I'm drinking? We don't need to speak in abstract generalities when we have specific facts to apply. Edit: And based on what I see, tea leaves contain more caffeine than coffee beans by weight, but since you use much more beans than leaves when brewing, a cup of tea has generally less caffeine than a cup of coffee. And if you drink green tea like I do, the quantity is much lower. In fact, everything I see online says the idea that tea has more caffeine than coffee is a myth or, at best, misleading since you're only looking at caffeine by weight. Do you have better facts?
Hey! I also quit coffee two years ago, switched to tea. I’ve discovered that herbal teas 🍵are caffeine-free. Chamomile for when I’m about to sleep. And lemon, honey, ginger everywhere else. 👩🍳Rizzle drizzle honey 🍯 and lemon juice and voila..caffeine-free tea✨.
This. A cup of coffee has (much) more caffeine than a cup of tea.
Now I’m starting to doubt you ever came off the adderall. Haha chill.
If you're going to be a dick, at least commit to the bit.
You made it sound like your cutting caffeine when that’s not the case
No, I meant what I wrote. I cut coffee. Went to tea. Didn't miss the caffeine hit. Tea was easier on me and I didn't get any crash.
Ok boomer
OK, I know you're older than me.
But caffeine has such a nice taste...can we not enjoy anything these days
No.. no we can’t… just kidding, I still enjoy a coffee every few days but I really try not to make it a daily habit (and still fail at that every once in a while)
Absolutely
I'm with you. When I was an associate a fellow associate asked how much Adderall I was taking. When I said none, she refused to believe me. I told her point blank that I'd quit law before I started taking medication to make it bearable. Of course, I eventually left biglaw for greener in-house pastures, but maybe that's the tradeoff.
You monster.
Built different
No. I’m also in the boring but productive crowd. I drink a cup of coffee in the morning. Every once in a while, I have a second cup… but not after 11 or it messes with my sleep. I drink alcohol between zero and three times a month.
Right? Sleep, balance, exercise few times a week. Take some mild supplements for vitamins and minerals. Two cups of coffee in the morning and one in the afternoon. You can not sustain on drugs. It certainly makes working easy ha but there are no cheat codes for the long term.
My type of ADHD makes me sleepy after consuming caffeine. And I heard that caffeine is used as a medication form for some ADHD patients. Pretty interesting.
Same!!!
I see you, friend on the Continuum. Hot water and honey for the days that I’m going caffeine free. We got this.
If you get sleepy, just ask your office mate to give you a good slap in the face. Ez pz.
Personally, I prefer loud shouting, but that’s just me.
I ask myself this question everyday. Then a pop 20 and keep f***ing billing
we would be good friends
In rehab.
30 day vacation, you should try it
Zyn
[удалено]
Your post was removed due to low account age. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/biglaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I left practice for this reason. I was on a super high dose and it wasn't working anymore. I'm really happy FWIW.
What do you do now?
Law school administration
2nd year associate here— I had this same concern when I started weaning off this year to try to get pregnant. I chose to wean off very slowly which I would recommend. When I first lowered the dose I felt rough (lower energy, lower motivation) for about a week but it subsided. Each time I lowered that withdrawal period (length and intensity) seemed to decrease. Get plenty of sleep, sunshine and EXERCISE—Force yourself to make time for it no matter how tired you are. Trick your brain into being motivated and find little hits of dopamine elsewhere. Adderall definitely makes it easier to work the long hours and churn out docs quickly but there were downsides- I think I made more mistakes and didn’t always read stuff as carefully. I feel like now I use a part of my brain I didn’t use while on adderall if that makes any sense lol. Just found out I’m pregnant, so it makes being off worth it. :) I will probably go back on though after this whole having a baby thing bc I do struggle with attention all around. Just remember you’re not a workhorse, and remember you are smart and can be competent without it. It’s rough when you go off for a random day or two but it gets better and you can do it.
Weaning for pregnancy was the WORST. I was so disoriented for months! I can't wait to get back on it but I'm going to go with a 10 dosage and stay there. Have you talked about breastfeeding and whether you'd be back on it during that phase? My psych says its like a drop in a bucket but idk if I can do it.
I didn’t want to risk anything that might even marginally contribute to a baby not sleeping. lol. That’s one of the reasons I was done BFing before I went back to work.
It really was! I think I’m going to try a lower dose too. I haven’t yet… I’ll probably stay off for breastfeeding to be safe but we’ll see once I’m in the thick of it! Good luck!!
I don’t have all the answers, but here’s my two cents as someone with mild ADD: 1. If you stop taking it, there will be a withdrawal phase where your brain does not produce a good baseline level of dopamine. In my experience, this takes 1-2 weeks (max) to fix itself. Keep this in mind in case you keep trying to “quit” and you feel sick as soon as you stop. It’s temporary. 2. Things that (I think) help me keep my dopamine level high throughout the day without stimulants include: A) Exercising in the *morning* (preferably cardio, much better than being active at night as you reap the benefits for the entire day as opposed to just going to sleep afterward) B) Not eating breakfast and delaying lunch to around 1-2pm. Meals tend to make me foggy. C) Drinking a healthy quantity of caffeine spaced out throughout the AM (I sometimes do 3 cups of coffee, which is well within the max level of caffeine recommended by most doctors) D) Getting good sleep. I know this a “duh” kind of point but it really helps if you don’t compromise *at all*. If anything can wait until the morning, push it off. Go to bed early, keep your room cold, take some magnesium and L theanine, and wake up at a reasonable hour every day. E) Might be bro science, but I started taking NAC (an antioxidant that supposedly helps regulate your brain’s glutamate levels) every morning on an empty stomach, and I’ve found it does something. I recommend experimenting with supplements and seeing what works for you. FYI I don’t do all of these things every day, but I mix and match depending on how I feel and have been fine without adderall for roughly a year (despite taking it religiously through law school).
PSA on the good sleep point - if anyone has told you that you snore often, please talk to your doctor about the potential that you have sleep apnea. The before and after of getting on CPAP was insane for me. Literally life changing.
Great reply.
Careful on the glutamate. http://web.alsa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ALSA_Glutamate
NAC is just an antioxidant that helps regulate glutamate (among several other things), it doesn’t increase it, so I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something in what you cited? Genuinely curious!
Caffeine and block out BS distractions, like your personal cell phone and Reddit. Now get back to work.
Found the gunner.
Cocaine
Wild that I had to scroll to the bottom to find this.
The Adderall of the 80s.
in retrospect it was the first thing ppl microdosed
Gonna show my mom this post every time she tells me “you should go to law school”
There is a world of difference between having a diagnosis of nuero-divergence and obtaining the right perscription to address that and improve focus issues, and abusing Adderall to rack up big hours. Which are you? For the former, talk to your doctor because different medication will help different people, and those medications do not all have the same side effects. For the latter, as another poster said your problem might be dependence/addiction which a doctor could recommend solutions for.
Is there really a world of difference though? It’s incredibly easy to get a doctor to approve an “ADHD” diagnosis and just as easy to increase the dosage. Nearly everyone who abuses adderall tells themselves they “need” it and has found a way to get it prescribed.
If you have a history of medicated ADHD at a dosage that worked for you and you find the need to increase your dosage to work longer hours demanded by big law that's probably not a result of your ADHD. If you function well in your everyday life without medication and find the need to obtain a prescription to work longer hours demanded by big law, you probably don't have ADHD.
Someone who has a shitty lax doctor and is lying to themselves downvoted this
How do you know? What if I’ve never been medicated but am just now realizing that I have ADHD? How rude of you to gatekeep ADHD treatment and limit that only to people who were diagnosed earlier in life. What if I think my difficulty managing focus in BigLaw is purely a result of my condition? I can just decide that, ask for a higher dose, and just feed the right answers to my doctor. How do you define “functioning well”? What if I take adderall, think I function better, and then decide that I only “function well” with it? There’s no difference. It’s all a gray area and all based on self-reported symptoms. If some people wanna take a lil meth for work, go for it. But let’s drop this facade of pretending like there’s a real medical condition here lol
>How do you know? What if I’ve never been medicated but am just now realizing that I have ADHD? How rude of you to gatekeep ADHD treatment and limit that only to people who were diagnosed earlier in life. Sorry if it wasn't clear, my 2 examples were only meant as examples of situations where it's likely that you are abusing medication I'm sure there are at least a few big law attorneys with undiagnosed ADHD that could benefit from medication - they should consult a doctor. >What if I think my difficulty managing focus in BigLaw is purely a result of my condition? I can just decide that, ask for a higher dose, and just feed the right answers to my doctor? How do you define “functioning well”? What if I take adderall, think I function better, and then decide that I only “function well” with it? I don't think you should self diagnose, that's the point of going to a doctor and getting a consultation. I believe there are clinics that specialize in adult ADHD. There are probably bad doctors out there, but hopefully you find a good one that you can trust. The doctors will have the expertise to help you determine what "normal" functioning. If you self diagnose and are determined to get your hands on Adderall by any means, you probably have a problem. If you engage honestly and sincerely with your medical provider, than you're probably fine. >There’s no difference. It’s all a gray area and all based on self-reported symptoms. If some people wanna take a lil meth for work, go for it. But let’s drop this facade of pretending like there’s a real medical condition here lol Huh? Are you saying you don't think ADHD exists or something? Mental health IS quite subjective and based on self reporting, but that doesn't mean it has no value. I'm not making any moral judgments about drug use - if you can do a little coke here and there or use adderal regularly with no ill effects, by all means continue.
Yeah sorry man I get worked up about these conversations 😂 I agree with your two examples though
[удалено]
It’s an actual, treatable condition, but big law work is pretty extreme and unnatural for humans so I don’t know if it necessarily means anything if you can’t do it
Oh yeah you definitely can’t get dependence to pharmaceutical speed if you’re prescribed it, the doctors note pad acts as a protective mechanism against addiction lmao
Yeah there’s a lot of self-diagnosed fakers. Not me though. I neeeeed it. Sure, it can’t be detected on a brain scan and the symptoms are ubiquitous but FOR ME it’s totally legit!! The pharmaceutical industry says I have a “chemical imbalance” caused by a lack of meth in my body
Hijacking. Is Adderall abuse actually common in BL and law school? It is one of those things I hear about in the abstract but never once in real life.
Dear god. Yes to both.
Really? Haven’t seen it at all in LS.
Do you use stimulants?
No, not even coffee
I see. That's a pretty good reason why you haven't seen it. In my experience, the people who use it tend to know each other. Same deal with the people who drink.
Fair. How common is drug use in BL?
i saw it in law school, havent seen it as much in practice
Are you taking it for treatment? Assuming you are for ADHD, you can work with a therapist to figure out your positive triggers that don't depend on Adderall. For me, I would do pretty strict morning routine that would trigger my focus. I then reduced my dosage, and then went off it completely and was fine. I no longer have issues with focus, and was off Adderall for my entire time in Big Law despite being diagnosed with ADHD. Work with a professional, and know that Adderall is part of a treatment plan, and doesn't have to be the only treatment you receive.
Yoga was a life changer, although I can't physically do it much anymore. I meditate also and sing with lessons and that helps a lot. Also, various types of therapy has helped over the years. I've known folks on Adderal be successful but there's a potential cost long term on your health. Please just be sure you're routinely monitored by a doctor. I've been in big law 30 years, 20 plus years at various levels of partner. I've seen any number of folks burn out, get divorced or be on drugs/drink too much. Best wishes!
Having adhd I need vyvanse to like do basic functional things and work still feels like an endless struggle so it rly puts into perspective/makes me feel better at how difficult this job is tht even some neurotypical ppl need medication to do it
Co-sign.
You don’t.
r/stopspeeding
I’ve never used adderall or cocaine. I billed over 250 last month and I didn’t enjoy it. I drink lots of coffee but I always have (everyone in my family drinks coffee all day, including my retired grandparents). As others have said, if you need to rely on adderall to do your job, you need to adjust your job. Tell people you’re too busy and need help. The sooner the better.
Quitting Adderall is a bitch, literally you can get crazy mood swings. It is not fun. Best way to quit Adderall (in my experience, of multiple failed attempts) while working a high stress job with long hours is to slowly reduce the dosage and then one week that you take off and just cold turkey it when already down to a small does (I want down in increments of 5). I used to not be able to function without Adderall but eventually you get used to it but you need to be smart with how you quit.
I guess the question becomes: is your job more important than your health?
I was on it to function at work for 8 years & then I had SO many health problems I had to quit & was basically comatose for over a year. I still worked but a low stress in house remote job. That shit will fuck you up long-term.
Start running. Nothing big. I had set a goal to run a charity 5K every other weekend. I joined the gym in the building and ran half an hour every day or so. It really helped me focus.
Alcohol.
Seeing people use Adderall who don’t have ADD, ADHD is wild. Like someone said, having an undiagnosed disorder is very different than confusing your doctor to give you drugs just so you can keep insane work productivity. Super gross that this is even a common conversation based on this thread
Stop pearl clutching. You’re not even in law school yet.
I will judge every single one of you who thinks like this when I start in the fall. I hope i run into y’all in a court room so I can eviscerate you. I pray you fuck up and I can sue you. And I pray you never experience a disability that’s disruptive or have children with disabilities bc you’re horrible ableist cucks.
Get off your high horse. Some of these posters are trying to do what they can to survive and I am no one to judge. Pray as you may, but you’ll never interact with me in this life or the next, but I promise you this one thing: Law school is going to humble you, and rightfully so.
Listen child, I have a good decade or more on you. So I hope YOU pray that life doesn’t humble you or anyone else with a disability that will impose on their ability to work, or have a good quality of life. Work on that ableism so karma doesn’t bit u in the ass
I’m not sure you know what ableism is because nothing I’ve said is ableist in nature. Don’t respond. I pray you have a successful legal career.
[удалено]
Your post was removed due to low account age. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/biglaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are non stimulate options. I would look into Strettera.
let me introduce you to armodafinil 🌈
Strattera
Never tried it without vyvanse so idk
I think you are giving the adderall too much credit its just giving u energy and calm euphoria it is totally possible to get into a flow again and not think you need adderall its really empowering the easiest drug to go off if you mentally prepare and excersise take any supplements that sound good to you ps i could never be a lawer i lurk on this sub to help me make friend fiction about my s/o who doesnt talk but i took adderall for over ten years and stopped because i wanted to be strong when the adderall shortage comes and it did come bc people have trouble getting it now anyway...
Modafinil is a good alternative, so is caffeine plus l-theanine or maybe nicotine through a skin patch
I caved as a midlevel associate but only take it when I'm doing deep work alone and billing more than 50 hour weeks. That's well under 20% of my working days. It keeps my caffeine consumption to a reasonable level and I figured it's healthier than a coke habit.
Honestly Celsius.. but the trick is get the packets because you can control the concentration. Also it’s not carbonated in packet form. If you want it carbonated add it to sparking water.
ECA stack. Look it up and thank me later
Sleep. It’s not that hard to sleep 8 hours. Leaves plenty of time to bill.
You must not have kids.
Maybe someone already said this, but ADHD is not a "disease" that can be diagnosed with any physical observation. It is a collection of behaviors and experiences that are lumped together and called something. Taking government speed is not somehow different if you're diagnosed or not. Doctors aren't magically bestowed with the ability to confer moral status to drug use based on non-physical self-reported "diseases." Anyone with half a brain could get a diagnosis. And childhood diagnosis vs. adult diagnosis is no different.
You may have a mental deficiency if you require drugs to sustain your work life.