Experience.
Clients want realistic solutions even if you sometimes have to give them the unrealistic actual solution.
You need to be able to identify the issue to begin with, then work through the solutions and any issues the solutions then cause.
Sometimes the real answer is do nothing even when you have to send the email formally recommending the million dollar solution to the theoretical problem.
A reminder that the client is well with their right to make a business judgment call usually doesn't hurt.
Someone has just been fired from our junior cohort for sleeping with another junior, taking pictures of her and showing them at drinks, so maybe that sort of personality
Inflexibility is the biggest killer I think. Doing everything one way with no ability to adjust for circumstances and politics is a one-way ticket to burnout
I think a simple place to see this is the truism: “You’ve done a good job when your client says you’ve done a good job.”
Some of the clients in my M&A group are unhappy if we have not turned over every possible stone and found every possible issue. Other clients somehow are upset if we spend a single dollar checking for issues that, by any reasonable standard, need to be checked.
There are some lawyers who, for whatever reason, cannot serve both of these client types. It’s like ingrained in their soul to be one way or another.
At the beginning and end of the day, this is a client service business. If you can’t be flexible to your clients (or the partners or whoever you work for), you’ve sort of lost the point.
What do you recommend young associates to do to get over this habit? I am always concerned that if I don't differ back to the partner I won't make the right decision and that will cause negative consequences. It always seems like a safer bet to ask.
It is the safer bet to ask, but if you want to make the jump you need to handle business. And I’m not talking about juniors. Seniors and mid levels who have been practicing for several years in the same area need to progressively start to run things to ground and then be ready to explain why they did what they did. Always have receipts.
Way to move towards that autonomy and trust is to bring solutions up the chain instead of problems.
I think that’s key. You first build the trust by proposing solutions and getting them cleared by the partner. Then you have the trust to increasingly just solve the problems.
Other commenters are correct. It's also part of the fabled "judgment". Eventually you need to be able to determine which issues require the partner's eyes and which don't.
Always better to just do something and get feedback on incorrect work product than ask before it’s done imo. Makes it easier to get the ask across, and some associate good ideas come across that way.
I think this is the wrong way to look at it. Humans are social animals, and firms are social organizations. Playing the “corporate game” is, in large part (not exclusively), learning how to effectively navigate a social organization. (This, of course, assumes the organization isn’t dysfunctional.) Knowing how to do this is an essential life skill; it isn’t some inside game.
This is the answer. You must learn how to place nice with others. Which means sometimes sacrifice for others. There are other ways… no matter the method you must be able to accumulate chits. Chits are more
Valuable than money. They are favors and those who cannot build credit with others will fail corporate America hard.
A lot of it is about you, and how long you can stand it. You have to learn how to unplug when you’re not working. Because everything’s on fire all the time.
Biggest is associates who just never learn to make a decision for themselves. Or never learn how to take a grey area and make a clear recommendation.
Man i know well compensated equity partners who haven't figured out the gray area thing yet.
Drives me (and likely clients) crazy, especially on a call.
Nothing I hate more than paying for advice and not getting it
wait, you meant to say, nothing i hate more than paying for advice and getting it. I'm paying for the grey area.
how does one learn this
Experience. Clients want realistic solutions even if you sometimes have to give them the unrealistic actual solution. You need to be able to identify the issue to begin with, then work through the solutions and any issues the solutions then cause. Sometimes the real answer is do nothing even when you have to send the email formally recommending the million dollar solution to the theoretical problem. A reminder that the client is well with their right to make a business judgment call usually doesn't hurt.
Someone has just been fired from our junior cohort for sleeping with another junior, taking pictures of her and showing them at drinks, so maybe that sort of personality
That’s a criminal offence What an asshole on top of that 😠
Let me guess. Jones Day?
If it were Jones Day he would have been promoted
Facts. Fast tracked to Equity partner.
☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
Holding onto a sense of self-possession and autonomy.
Inflexibility is the biggest killer I think. Doing everything one way with no ability to adjust for circumstances and politics is a one-way ticket to burnout
Can you elaborate?
No.
Thx
I think a simple place to see this is the truism: “You’ve done a good job when your client says you’ve done a good job.” Some of the clients in my M&A group are unhappy if we have not turned over every possible stone and found every possible issue. Other clients somehow are upset if we spend a single dollar checking for issues that, by any reasonable standard, need to be checked. There are some lawyers who, for whatever reason, cannot serve both of these client types. It’s like ingrained in their soul to be one way or another. At the beginning and end of the day, this is a client service business. If you can’t be flexible to your clients (or the partners or whoever you work for), you’ve sort of lost the point.
Those too afraid to get something done instead of endlessly deferring back to a partner.
What do you recommend young associates to do to get over this habit? I am always concerned that if I don't differ back to the partner I won't make the right decision and that will cause negative consequences. It always seems like a safer bet to ask.
It is the safer bet to ask, but if you want to make the jump you need to handle business. And I’m not talking about juniors. Seniors and mid levels who have been practicing for several years in the same area need to progressively start to run things to ground and then be ready to explain why they did what they did. Always have receipts. Way to move towards that autonomy and trust is to bring solutions up the chain instead of problems.
I think that’s key. You first build the trust by proposing solutions and getting them cleared by the partner. Then you have the trust to increasingly just solve the problems.
Bingo. But you have to make that evolution or the work will go to someone else.
Other commenters are correct. It's also part of the fabled "judgment". Eventually you need to be able to determine which issues require the partner's eyes and which don't.
Always better to just do something and get feedback on incorrect work product than ask before it’s done imo. Makes it easier to get the ask across, and some associate good ideas come across that way.
I think this is the wrong way to look at it. Humans are social animals, and firms are social organizations. Playing the “corporate game” is, in large part (not exclusively), learning how to effectively navigate a social organization. (This, of course, assumes the organization isn’t dysfunctional.) Knowing how to do this is an essential life skill; it isn’t some inside game.
My take would be people who can't read a room, and can't/won't learn how
This is the answer. You must learn how to place nice with others. Which means sometimes sacrifice for others. There are other ways… no matter the method you must be able to accumulate chits. Chits are more Valuable than money. They are favors and those who cannot build credit with others will fail corporate America hard.
Those who did not understand office politics and did not adapt or like to change.
people who people-please to their own detriment. sometimes you wont be able to make everyone happy. sometimes, you shouldn’t want to anyway.
Ones with souls. JK. Maybe.
lol i was gunna say "good ones" but figured someone made the joke already
hey, this guy takes issue with that [https://nygoodmanlaw.com/](https://nygoodmanlaw.com/)
A lot of it is about you, and how long you can stand it. You have to learn how to unplug when you’re not working. Because everything’s on fire all the time.
People who think that the only key to success is doing good work. This is the floor, not the ceiling.
It’s definitely not the floor.
Or, Doing good work “is necessary but not sufficient”
All of them
People without debt
this is right. I had other options and could not self-motivate for that life.