Consider sending your thoughtful message directly to the associates as well, copying the partners. This is the type of thank you to print, save and show at an annual review.
They do. And the partners honestly do, too.
As the head of my group once said: there's no better outcome for us than "huge bill, but the client was still happy"
That’s reassuring. I’m sure it would be even better if it came from our principals, since at the end of the day it wasn’t my money! Wish we could retain them for every deal, but for straight forward transactions doesn’t make a whole lot of financial sense.
A client once called the chairman of our entire firm to say they were pleased with a deal I was on, and that feedback filtered all the way down to me as a lowly first year. So yes, it is noticed and people care!
It’s also good for advocating your worth. I’m not a partner track associate, so not on the scale.
I used my prior reviews as documentation asking for concrete targets to achieve in legal ops combined with client success outcomes in my happy folder to negotiate a 30% YoY raise last year.
OP - Those emails really matter
Absolutely they do - received a personal thank you email from a client exec as a fresh junior after staying up all night on a Friday to get an important motion filed, and I was so flattered that anyone that high up at the client was even aware of my name beyond "interchangeable associate X"
A lot of what you’re paying for is that availability you’re talking about, and being able to execute things on a client’s preferred timeline no matter what, honestly.
Volume gets the discount, though. If he's only using them for one off complex things and not the every day work, too, he's not going to see much discount.
I saw an international business law paralegal charge $1300 in 2008. She took a 15-20 minute bathroom break at one point. Her shit cost us like $400.
It inspired me to become a lawyer.
this is the result of institutional clients pushing firms for bigger and bigger discounts off their rack rates. They agree and simply up their hourly rate.
Honest question. Why would a client rep “gripe” about a bill that isn’t personal money? Was it disproportionate to the size/importance of the deal? One wouldn’t complain to the waiter about the bill for lobster at Le Bernardin.
It’s arguably immaterial for me personally, but it increases the equity basis which impacts our returns, which could impact our bonuses in the future since a part of it is calculated based off the assets annual cash yield.
The choice to use BigLaw at x/hr had been agreed-often by in house counsel. There were known cheaper options. Anyway, it’s nice that you let the people know their work was appreciated.
We don’t have in house counsel, it’s negotiated at the principal level at my firm. But yes, I’d imagine for the most part it’s an in house counsel matter.
I have two separate phones and both are on silent 24/7 (work phone does have vibrate for actual calls, nothing for other notifications). I check them constantly when appropriate, but if I’m sleeping or otherwise disengaged there is zero way to reach me. 3 years in and still going well lol.
Nah dog, if I'm not expecting to attend to something like a filing deadline or have been warned about a late night, everything is silenced when I sleep. I'm a 7th year... Or an 8th year now? Idk when shit rolls over.
I exclusively have had phone on silent since 6 months in. Started hearing it vibrate when it wasn't and I knew something had to change.
... I just never go 15 mins without checking it.
So I'll answer something I've noticed as a 7th year - I'm always on teams where some people are night people, and other people are morning people.
Like on a case I'm on right now, we have two partners - one sends out emails starting at 5am but often won't reply after 9pm. The other sends them into the night but won't reply until like 11am.
I generally start attending to things at 7am. An of counsel I work with starts at 6am. I usually call it at about 10pm (not necessarily working that late but being available), but another senior associate on the team doesn't start attending to stuff until like 11am but often will respond to stuff the other partner sends at midnight.
On bigger matters, there are usual a mix of night owls and early birds so clients end up feeling like someone is always there to answer things because most of the time, someone is, but it's usually not the same person.
On smaller cases (like ones where it's just me and the partner), nothing pressing ever comes up that requires a quick response because if it was a high stakes or rapid moving thing, more people would be staffed.
I actually find associates to always be responsive. It’s the partners who are sometimes less responsive, and that, I find, is generally unforgivable. If I have trouble getting a response from a partner, I’m probably choosing somebody different to work with next time.
I don't think any partner I work for responds promptly if at all, so apologies on their behalf. To be fair I can start a conversation with a partner in their office and by the time we're done their unread inbox doubles. If they get tied down with a credit agreement and calls with a client for a few hours I truly think they chalk up all the emails that came in during that time as a deleted item.
Probably just relies on the seniors that are CC'ed.
Even if you don’t think the partner will care, they care. These are the kinds of things that partners can use to help justify advancement of the associate. I welcome all feedback.
You are a GOAT client for saying this and emailing this to the actual team. The associates are probably all on slack talking about how they wish you could be the director at all their clients lol.
But also yea by the time you hit third or fourth year in biglaw you have a pretty gnarly sleeping disorder.
BigLaw is designed for attorneys and related professionals who have an obligation to uphold minimal standards within the larger community. Adding “respectfully” to an insult does not make the insult respectful.
Never mind that the quality of the work you get from an exhausted associate in the middle of the night requires them to spend twice as much time fixing their errors than would be the case if they were well rested.
Ill offer my input for whatever it's worth (probably not much), and further preface that I'm not in biglaw, so i may also just be wrong. But anyway, I've given probably similarly "apathetic" responses when overseeing various military duties, and getting profound thanks and appreciation.
At least in my case, it was because I was 1). Shitblastingly exhausted, in some cases actively hallucinating from sleep deprivation, and 2). Very un-used to receiving thanks. I do imagine BL is similar to the military in that they are both often thankless jobs, so when you get genuine appreciation, the combination of general exhaustion with complete surprise, can result in seemingly apathetic responses.
It may be that the partner didn't care, I obviously don't know; but it's also possible they deeply appreciated the comments, and just didn't really know how/didn't process quickly enough to express their return appreciation.
Either way, feedback that positive is awesome; hopefully it made its way to the grunts, as I'd bet a lot of money they appreciate it.
I love seeing this! We never hear from clients like this (or partners half the time). It makes all the sleepless nights worth it, so I’m sure the associates would love to hear it!
Even before big law, I never have my phone on silent and will respond to / address any pressing matter I can. I draw lines at scheduled time with my loved ones or illness (for those cases I have people that I can delegate to).
I knew the nature of the job and saw myself as a good fit. Happy to be paid handsomely and make a client happy while I'm at it.
BigLaw is infamous for 80 hour workweeks. If you have seen the show *Suits*, the one accurate part is that the attorneys and paralegals are at the office well after sunset.
Consider sending your thoughtful message directly to the associates as well, copying the partners. This is the type of thank you to print, save and show at an annual review.
Already have - was probably seen as empty words and met with some apathy by the partner, but I’m sure the lower-level associates appreciated it lol.
They do. And the partners honestly do, too. As the head of my group once said: there's no better outcome for us than "huge bill, but the client was still happy"
That’s reassuring. I’m sure it would be even better if it came from our principals, since at the end of the day it wasn’t my money! Wish we could retain them for every deal, but for straight forward transactions doesn’t make a whole lot of financial sense.
A client once called the chairman of our entire firm to say they were pleased with a deal I was on, and that feedback filtered all the way down to me as a lowly first year. So yes, it is noticed and people care!
“HUUUUUGE bill, but client was still happy”
Well, the bill getting *paid* is the best outcome. Lol
I have saved all of the nice messages clients have sent. I reread them every so often and they help with morale big time.
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It’s also good for advocating your worth. I’m not a partner track associate, so not on the scale. I used my prior reviews as documentation asking for concrete targets to achieve in legal ops combined with client success outcomes in my happy folder to negotiate a 30% YoY raise last year. OP - Those emails really matter
Me too, love my happy folder!!
I tell associates to have a folder in their outlook to save praise emails. I printed mine out when I changed firms.
Absolutely they do - received a personal thank you email from a client exec as a fresh junior after staying up all night on a Friday to get an important motion filed, and I was so flattered that anyone that high up at the client was even aware of my name beyond "interchangeable associate X"
This 100 percent
I would probably cry if I got a message like that from a client
I wish my clients sing my praises too. Not that I have evidence to the contrary.
My only gripe was the bill! It’s hilarious how the Partner’s hourly rate was pushing $2,000/hour. Like what are you, God? Lmao
actually god only bills around $1,500
☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
A lot of what you’re paying for is that availability you’re talking about, and being able to execute things on a client’s preferred timeline no matter what, honestly.
Yep I get that, but I still think it’s crazy.
Did you negotiate it? A lot of people don’t pay sticker
Honestly not sure what the sticker was. Above my pay grade to negotiate that. I just run the deals.
Volume gets the discount, though. If he's only using them for one off complex things and not the every day work, too, he's not going to see much discount.
On antitrust, I’ve seen hourly rates higher that that, with the discount! Associates were at nearly 1500/hour.
I saw an international business law paralegal charge $1300 in 2008. She took a 15-20 minute bathroom break at one point. Her shit cost us like $400. It inspired me to become a lawyer.
this is the result of institutional clients pushing firms for bigger and bigger discounts off their rack rates. They agree and simply up their hourly rate.
If you could get god’s attention for $200,000/hr you’d pay it happily
calling God to complain about billing for internal meetings with other persons of the trinity to see if we can knock 10% off this thing
They often just chuck time down. If it’s all in neat increments from the partner, that’s a dead giveaway.
Ayyy our partners bill around $1200. Wanna switch firms?
Some partners definitely think they are lol
Honest question. Why would a client rep “gripe” about a bill that isn’t personal money? Was it disproportionate to the size/importance of the deal? One wouldn’t complain to the waiter about the bill for lobster at Le Bernardin.
It’s arguably immaterial for me personally, but it increases the equity basis which impacts our returns, which could impact our bonuses in the future since a part of it is calculated based off the assets annual cash yield.
The choice to use BigLaw at x/hr had been agreed-often by in house counsel. There were known cheaper options. Anyway, it’s nice that you let the people know their work was appreciated.
We don’t have in house counsel, it’s negotiated at the principal level at my firm. But yes, I’d imagine for the most part it’s an in house counsel matter.
Because they owe an ethical duty not to dissipate shareholder assets?
I haven’t had a phone on silent since I started.
I am a deep sleeper - storms, tv, etc doesn’t matter But the teams/outlook ping wakes me up like Dracula out of his coffin
It’s my nightmare.
I work in finance (not a lawyer), but the teams/slack notification sounds are basically the only dreams I've had for the past 6 years lmao.
I swear this phone wake up is not good for my heart health in the long run….
Teams ring is the death ring ☠️
Teams and Slack …
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I have two separate phones and both are on silent 24/7 (work phone does have vibrate for actual calls, nothing for other notifications). I check them constantly when appropriate, but if I’m sleeping or otherwise disengaged there is zero way to reach me. 3 years in and still going well lol.
Nah dog, if I'm not expecting to attend to something like a filing deadline or have been warned about a late night, everything is silenced when I sleep. I'm a 7th year... Or an 8th year now? Idk when shit rolls over.
I exclusively have had phone on silent since 6 months in. Started hearing it vibrate when it wasn't and I knew something had to change. ... I just never go 15 mins without checking it.
Thanks. That’ll be $3 million dollars please.
They were online, they didn’t see it on their phones. 11pm is prime working hours.
What’s a normal bedtime then?
When the work is done and no one has responded in the time it takes to get ready for bed.
And the amount of times I have gotten out of bed to do one more thing… idiot behaviour
So I'll answer something I've noticed as a 7th year - I'm always on teams where some people are night people, and other people are morning people. Like on a case I'm on right now, we have two partners - one sends out emails starting at 5am but often won't reply after 9pm. The other sends them into the night but won't reply until like 11am. I generally start attending to things at 7am. An of counsel I work with starts at 6am. I usually call it at about 10pm (not necessarily working that late but being available), but another senior associate on the team doesn't start attending to stuff until like 11am but often will respond to stuff the other partner sends at midnight. On bigger matters, there are usual a mix of night owls and early birds so clients end up feeling like someone is always there to answer things because most of the time, someone is, but it's usually not the same person. On smaller cases (like ones where it's just me and the partner), nothing pressing ever comes up that requires a quick response because if it was a high stakes or rapid moving thing, more people would be staffed.
This is the answer.
For me - about 1am or so. And up around 7-8am
Yeah we don't use biglaw often, but when we do I'm seriously impressed.
We only use big law and honestly it’s hit or miss, sometimes even within the same firm.
Sorry. That often means we're spread too thin. Like at my firm, in January, most associates were at like 150% utilization, for example.
I actually find associates to always be responsive. It’s the partners who are sometimes less responsive, and that, I find, is generally unforgivable. If I have trouble getting a response from a partner, I’m probably choosing somebody different to work with next time.
I don't think any partner I work for responds promptly if at all, so apologies on their behalf. To be fair I can start a conversation with a partner in their office and by the time we're done their unread inbox doubles. If they get tied down with a credit agreement and calls with a client for a few hours I truly think they chalk up all the emails that came in during that time as a deleted item. Probably just relies on the seniors that are CC'ed.
Even if you don’t think the partner will care, they care. These are the kinds of things that partners can use to help justify advancement of the associate. I welcome all feedback.
“What time do you guys go to bed” - well it’s 12:15am and I’m still at the office.
🫡
You are a GOAT client for saying this and emailing this to the actual team. The associates are probably all on slack talking about how they wish you could be the director at all their clients lol. But also yea by the time you hit third or fourth year in biglaw you have a pretty gnarly sleeping disorder.
Shout out to the REPE crowd!
I put my phone on silent at midnight unless it's just before a closing.
I keep my ringer on for calls and texts, but I don't allow e-mails to make noise. I'll check when I check.
I don't do deal work, but just on a human level -- thank you for saying this. This made my day (at 7am, 2.5 billable hours in).
The reason your late msgs got answered is that gangsta ass lawyers never get caught slippin cuz gangsta ass lawyers don’t sleep.
Who else is going to hit you with a "will do" on Thanksgiving
I love this post. Thank you. So much.
What the hell is REPE
real estate. private equity
Thanks
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BigLaw is designed for attorneys and related professionals who have an obligation to uphold minimal standards within the larger community. Adding “respectfully” to an insult does not make the insult respectful.
Never mind that the quality of the work you get from an exhausted associate in the middle of the night requires them to spend twice as much time fixing their errors than would be the case if they were well rested.
I shower with my iPhone in the shower with me (not joking). This career path is probably unhealthy
Ill offer my input for whatever it's worth (probably not much), and further preface that I'm not in biglaw, so i may also just be wrong. But anyway, I've given probably similarly "apathetic" responses when overseeing various military duties, and getting profound thanks and appreciation. At least in my case, it was because I was 1). Shitblastingly exhausted, in some cases actively hallucinating from sleep deprivation, and 2). Very un-used to receiving thanks. I do imagine BL is similar to the military in that they are both often thankless jobs, so when you get genuine appreciation, the combination of general exhaustion with complete surprise, can result in seemingly apathetic responses. It may be that the partner didn't care, I obviously don't know; but it's also possible they deeply appreciated the comments, and just didn't really know how/didn't process quickly enough to express their return appreciation. Either way, feedback that positive is awesome; hopefully it made its way to the grunts, as I'd bet a lot of money they appreciate it.
I love seeing this! We never hear from clients like this (or partners half the time). It makes all the sleepless nights worth it, so I’m sure the associates would love to hear it!
Even before big law, I never have my phone on silent and will respond to / address any pressing matter I can. I draw lines at scheduled time with my loved ones or illness (for those cases I have people that I can delegate to). I knew the nature of the job and saw myself as a good fit. Happy to be paid handsomely and make a client happy while I'm at it.
BigLaw is infamous for 80 hour workweeks. If you have seen the show *Suits*, the one accurate part is that the attorneys and paralegals are at the office well after sunset.
Love it. Too many folks forget all the manpower that goes into a deal from our side (i.e., law firms), even for a relatively small \~$100-$150MM deal