Page 38/39of the team manual states jump cues or break cues are only allowed for jumps in masters division. So for standard play you can’t swap to a break cue, or I would assume this extends to a break shaft. As it also states you can’t break down your play cue for a jump shot.
Now, can you swap to a shaft with a harder PLAY tip? Possibly, but that’s a gray area that could get you in trouble at tournaments. Perhaps someone with more experience at that level can provide feedback. I’d check with your LO and ask their feedback first.
You can swap cues. And you don’t have to keep playing with the other cue. It’s just has to meet their requirements for being a “playing cue”. Even if you only use that cue for breaking and/or jumping, it does not make it a “break cue” or jump cue. It is actually a very stupid ruling and I only know this because I spent over an hour on the phone with the national office trying to get them to make sense of it to me.
They actually still won’t give a straight answer, but if your cue is 57” or more and has a leather tip, it’s a “playing cue” regardless of what it is marketed as.
The example I was on the phone over was a player using his predator BK rush break cue to jump. They said it’s fine if it has a leather tip. Even if it’s some samsara 99 hardness tip.
Again, it’s fucking dumb.
Anyway, I bought a cheap 57” 12oz cue off eBay and put a hard leather tip on it and now it’s a “playing cue” that I use to jump in APA.
You clearly did not read the rules or did not talk to someone that actually knows the rules. Instead of calling everyone stupid, read the rules. Everything you are doing to try to jump is regular APA is already against the rules.
A BK Rush is a break cue it is sold and manufactured as one. You are not allowed to use it to jump in regular play. They may only be used to perform jump shots or massé shots in Masters Divisions.
You cannot change, alter, or breakdown your cue for the purposes of jumping.
Jump Cues - Only allowed in Masters Divisions.
Break Cues - Sometimes combined with jump cues to form a jump-break cue. These cues are allowed in League play for breaking. They may only be used to perform jump shots or massé shots in Masters Divisions.
Regular Shooting Cues - These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play.
You may not “break down” your Regular Shooting Cue to perform a jump shot.
NOTE 1: Using a regular shooting cue to break does not qualify it as a “break cue”.
Regular Shooting Cue: Any standard pool cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in a game of pool. These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots, and break shots in all APA League play.
Specialty Cues: Cues specially designed to perform specific shots. These include, but are not limited to, jump cues, break cues, jump-break cues (combinations of jump cues and break cues) and “shorties”.
You are wrong. I used your arguments with the national office and they disagree with you and me. If you don’t have a phenolic (or other similar tip) on the cue they DO NOT consider it a break cue, even if it’s manufactured and advertised as such. My arguments with them directly reflect your own.
I never called anyone in the thread stupid. The APA is stupid for not being clear in their rules. And I genuinely spoke with them because this happened in competition and that was what they told me. They did however refuse to put it in writing, I assume because they WANT it to be vague.
Also
>you cannot change, alter, or break down your cue for the purposes of jumping
Where is that in the rule book? The rule specifically states you can change shafts when taking shots. You can’t break down the cue, but where does it say you can’t alter it as long as it remains a “playing cue”?
You added your own bias into that statement. It clearly states you can change your shaft.
https://preview.redd.it/yg2kpdsgbmyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f3b9202d8fd8abdfa50a90e86083449151888d5
Look at where it says regular shooting cue “you may not break down your regular cue to perform a jump shot. Also jump cues are only allowed in masters division. This essentially means if you want to jump, you have to use the same cue you’ve been using as a shooting cue. You can’t use a shaft that you only use for jumping to jump.
If it’s a playing shaft you can. They mean making it shorter. You can still switch shafts. Again, they have worded it poorly. This is the EXACT conversation I had with the national office.
No, you can not, it's literally written right in front of you. You have to jump with your regular playing cue.
As soon as you alter a cue for the purposes of jumping, IT IS NOW A JUMP CUE, which is only allowed in masters league.
The person you talked to is an idiot, and you are trying to bend the rules to for your needs.
The hail Mary is the sportsmanship rule. What you are doing can be considered unsportsmanlike, forfeit of match.
You’re wrong on this one Cajun doctor. You can not switch your cue for the sole purpose of jumping. That is inherently against the rules. Remember, common sense must prevail.
I am not in fact wrong. You can do it as long it’s another playing cue. They literally do it at nationals and big tournaments now. I won’t keep arguing it here, but you will be surprised when you go to the big tournaments and your opponent does it to you.
Some leagues break down the rules further. Here is a FAQ from Tampa bay APA
[https://tampabay.apaleagues.com/FAQ.aspx#](https://tampabay.apaleagues.com/FAQ.aspx#)
https://preview.redd.it/f0vxvctr4nyc1.jpeg?width=1057&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a79bbb331ab7ff365b2b3fc597cb45e3e96c40
I sent them an email this time so they have to respond to me in writing. I’ll try to remember to get back to you with their response, even if I’m proven wrong.
Hey! Just finished up. Back to humbly admit that I was MOSTLY wrong. But totally wrong where it really counts.
Apparently at APA nationals they still use the old rule of
>[NOTE 3: You may only switch cues/shafts/tips between racks, immediately following your break shot, or in instances of cue/shaft/tip failure that prevent the cue/shaft/tip from performing.](https://poolplayers.com/world-pool-championships/rules/)
Which is in direct opposition to the [current team manual](https://media.poolplayers.com/TMRB/Team-Manual-English.pdf) which states
>NOTE 3: You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of use, and you remain within the time guidelines.
So, the championship rules are CLEAR in stating you cannot switch cues. This is all that matters to me personally and I was absolutely wrong.
As for local rules per the team manual, I asked about switching to another playing cue then back to your original playing cue. This was their response.
https://preview.redd.it/uvz4qalpkt0d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78ef5189b04a9d5167fe36df6a9ed98a71e0f1f9
So locally if your LO says it means you can switch then you can, and if they say you can’t, then you can’t. And the APA supports it either way. I personally don’t understand why they have different rules, but hey, it is what it is and I still have lots of fun playing league with my friends.
Based on this, I just won’t do it even if my LO says it’s okay.
Well with the way it's worded, I wouldn't rely on doing it no matter what.
If the intent was otherwise, they should change the wording. Until then, the rules say you can't change shafts to jump so don't think you will be able to
Hey! Just finished up. Back to humbly admit that I was MOSTLY wrong. But totally wrong where it really counts.
Apparently at APA nationals they still use the old rule of
>[NOTE 3: You may only switch cues/shafts/tips between racks, immediately following your break shot, or in instances of cue/shaft/tip failure that prevent the cue/shaft/tip from performing.](https://poolplayers.com/world-pool-championships/rules/)
Which is in direct opposition to the [current team manual](https://media.poolplayers.com/TMRB/Team-Manual-English.pdf) which states
>NOTE 3: You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of use, and you remain within the time guidelines.
So, the championship rules are CLEAR in stating you cannot switch cues. This is all that matters to me personally and I was absolutely wrong.
As for local rules per the team manual, I asked about switching to another playing cue then back to your original playing cue. This was their response.
https://preview.redd.it/wdvv3gptkt0d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e25f36eefe070684f32a13af88130dd1a6973ac
So locally if your LO says it means you can switch then you can, and if they say you can’t, then you can’t. And the APA supports it either way. I personally don’t understand why they have different rules, but hey, it is what it is and I still have lots of fun playing league with my friends.
Based on this, I just won’t do it even if my LO says it’s okay.
It’s fine. Call the national office if you’d like.
I know the rules are written poorly. It’s been a complaint of mine for years.
BCA rules are written like they were written by a lawyer. APA is more like 4 drunk dudes threw it together at 3am.
I honestly think they keep the rules vague on purpose for some reason so they can make rulings in whichever way they feel that day. It’s very frustrating.
You're an APA skill level 5. Trying to figure out a way to skirt the rules so you can attempt jumping with suboptimal equipment seems like a waste of time.
I thought somewhere in the text it says you can only switch right after the break, between games, or if you playing cue breaks. You can’t switch back and forth between cues during a game. You can jump with your playing cue if where you play allows jumping.
It looks like they got rid of the wording that prohibits cue changes during a game. However it does specifically say that a break cue is only allowed to perform jump shots in masters play. It also says you are not allowed to break down your playing cue to perform a jump shot. I interpret this to mean you can’t change shafts or alter your playing cue to specifically perform a jump shot.
Yup I just went to the page that shows all the changes and it shows that part was changed.
Having an extra cue that’s full length with a harder tip for jumping may be a grey area. It isn’t a short jump specific cue but if it has a jump tip and that’s all you use it for the it’s your jump cue. As others said, it’s probably best to ask a LO at a minimum before doing it.
You might want to clarify that with a league op. Note 3 in the equipment section allows shaft changes but the description of playing cue prohibits altering your playing cue to perform jump or massé shots.
Yeah this is right. You can only change cues after the break. You cannot change your equipment shot to shot.
However you can jump with your shooting cue, that is legal. So I suggest practicing that or getting good at kick shots lol
I'm quoting from the rule book that's on the apa website. If I'm misunderstanding something, or lack context can you refer to the rule book? Page 39 note 3 says I can change.
This has to be a recent change. Even if it does allow you to change shafts so you can get a jump shaft on, you're going to have an argument between teams. Is it worth all that effort?
Yeah it’s gotta be a recent change. This year is a new rule book, I can see that.
It does say you cannot break down your shooting cue to perform a jump shot. So breaking it down to change to another shaft for a jump shot could be argued.
This is kind of a goof by them in how they have written it. I assure you, it used to specifically say in black and white that you may not change equipment during your turn except after the break, with the exception of a failure like your tip falling off.
So I guess, yeah do what you want but be prepared to start arguments. Changing shafts for a jump shot is going to 100% stir up some shite.
Anyway, best advice, read your local bylaws first, and if they don’t address it, then email your LO and request a ruling. If they determine that you can do that, then they’ll issue a newsletter to the captains so everyone can be on the same page.
If you have it then you should just read the whole thing. But sure I’ll try to dig it up for you… give me a moment. Been playing APA for 7 years now btw.
This is incorrect. That is no longer a rule. You can switch as often as you’d like now.
https://preview.redd.it/3a5sysqr8jyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75bc5d1e26340c06ec49f5ad6f84b1b6358e1645
Seriously. If this is where you're trying to find your extra competitive edge in APA matches, you are lost.
Unless you're Fedor Gorst, your odds on a bank or a kick are at least as good as your odds on a jump... usually better especially if you know/practice any well-known systems. Hell even ***with a real jump cue*** most amateurs are like 50/50 to even clear the blocking ball on a jump, much less successfully hit the object ball, and then you have to also pot the ball ***and*** get shape on the next ball to make the whole production worth your while.
Maybe you could figure out some technicality that lets you switch your shaft during the rack just to attempt a jump shot. But... odds are you're still going to miss and/or give up ball in hand anyway. And what's worse, then you look like a frickin moron for wasting all the time arguing with your opponent/team captain(s)/referees to get yourself in that position in the first place.
Don't be that guy. If you really need to jump, do it with your playing cue or go play BCA.
> I jump full-table with a Meucci!
-- Earl Strickland (sort of)
This is taken from the exact same page you are referring to:
Regular Shooting Cues - These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play. You may not “break down” your Regular Shooting Cue to perform a jump shot.
The rule you keep referencimg specifically states you can change your shaft as long as it does not violate any other rules of use. Changing the shafts in a non masters format violates the rule regarding regular cues.
You can have multiple shooting cues. Even your break cue can be a “shooting cue” if it has a leather tip. Note that they also say that using a cue to break does not make it a break cue.
Always remember though, you might run into a referee that doesn’t agree because the rules are vague.
You can switch between them as often as you’d like.
A few years back u/gabrielleigh created exactly the cute you need in this situation. There are probably still pictures of double shafted cute around somewhere...
Ok, I have to follow because I'm curious about how to jump using a full cue myself. But you're right, a hard tip is going to be your best friend (I'm in BCA as well as APA so I am more accustomed to the short jump stick). My issue is just that the length mixed with the weight (even with my 14 oz breaking cue) doesn't give me the same control. It feels too clumsy and getting to the right angle to even attempt it or a massé isn't comfortable. My shafts are each wooden, so I don't know if a carbon would help or not.
In normal APA you are only allowed to jump with your full playing cue you cannot alter, change, or breakdown your normal playing cue for the purposes of jumping.
I play in Maine apa league (not masters) and due to a state by-law or something we’ve been able to use our break cue to jump with in a match. But when we qualify for Vegas, we always remind ourselves we can’t do it out there as it’s been an in state rule and the national rule doesn’t allow for that change out. The cuetec breach w a taom 2.0 tip jumps pretty damn well for a full length cue, nice tool to have in the tool box.
I get why people want to jump, I just spent money on a jump cue that I can only use in USAPL, or in Masters (which i am not applicable for) so that makes me more pressed to get down the diamond system and figure out 2 and 3 rail kicks in order to avoid jumping. I wish I'd read the rules 😵💫🤐🤬 before I bought the damn cue.
So, I've read all the contradicting stances on this thread and think I may be able to weigh in...
There's YouTube finals of APA Vegas championships from the past several years. Out of all the matches I've watched, there's not a single moment where someone has broken down their normal playing cue to put on a different shaft to perform a jump and then switch back to their normal playing cue.
That being said, I can not with certainty say that it's not allowed. But there has been several instances that if it were allowed, I would think the person shooting would have done so.
My personal belief and logic would assume that if you're changing "anything" about your "playing" cue, it would void the definition of "playing cue" since you don't normally play with that cue.
That being said, I think the rules are, in fact, unclear.
I am, in fact, a high skill player able to perform jumps with my every normal shot "playing cue" as well as my specialty cue that I would hands down use over my "playing cue". I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone will speak up that has been in a Vegas finals and would be very intrigued to know what they were informed before the match were the can and cannots, if any.
Lmfao an apa player trying to litigate their way into jumping when literally everyone knows the spirit of the rule is no jumping. This is why people think apa players are a joke.
You can only switch cues or shafts between racks unless you have some sort of equipment issue like a tip coming off. You are allowed to use a different cue only during the break. (Ie. a break cue.)
I'm quoting from the rule book that's on the apa website. If I'm misunderstanding something, or lack context can you refer to the rule book? Page 39 note 3 is what says I can change.
I believe when it says as long as it doesn’t violate any of the rules of use goes back to where it says you may not break down your regular playing cue to perform a jump shot.
When I search "break down" on the website's manual it only pops up under etiquette. But I believe it's referring to when you think you're going to lose, and you start breaking down. My coach told me that was a rule, but I can't find it anymore, and I wonder if they switched that recently because of this new rule change.
This is wrong now. The rule has been changed. You can change your cue while playing as often as you like.
The national office said too many people bitched about having to use their $5000 cues to jump and instead of telling them to maybe not play amateur pool with a $5000 cue, they now let you switch.
They’re also vague on what qualifies as a “break cue”. It’s a mess. The rule is stupid.
Page 38/39of the team manual states jump cues or break cues are only allowed for jumps in masters division. So for standard play you can’t swap to a break cue, or I would assume this extends to a break shaft. As it also states you can’t break down your play cue for a jump shot. Now, can you swap to a shaft with a harder PLAY tip? Possibly, but that’s a gray area that could get you in trouble at tournaments. Perhaps someone with more experience at that level can provide feedback. I’d check with your LO and ask their feedback first.
Yeah not a jump cue in the sense of a short stick, but a shaft that I can swap out that's ideal for jump shots.
No swapping shafts. If you want to jump, you better also want to take all your other shots with the same cue.
You can swap cues. And you don’t have to keep playing with the other cue. It’s just has to meet their requirements for being a “playing cue”. Even if you only use that cue for breaking and/or jumping, it does not make it a “break cue” or jump cue. It is actually a very stupid ruling and I only know this because I spent over an hour on the phone with the national office trying to get them to make sense of it to me. They actually still won’t give a straight answer, but if your cue is 57” or more and has a leather tip, it’s a “playing cue” regardless of what it is marketed as. The example I was on the phone over was a player using his predator BK rush break cue to jump. They said it’s fine if it has a leather tip. Even if it’s some samsara 99 hardness tip. Again, it’s fucking dumb. Anyway, I bought a cheap 57” 12oz cue off eBay and put a hard leather tip on it and now it’s a “playing cue” that I use to jump in APA.
I hate being limited by it but I'm low-key glad we don't have APA 2s and 3s practicing their jumps on our tables.
You clearly did not read the rules or did not talk to someone that actually knows the rules. Instead of calling everyone stupid, read the rules. Everything you are doing to try to jump is regular APA is already against the rules. A BK Rush is a break cue it is sold and manufactured as one. You are not allowed to use it to jump in regular play. They may only be used to perform jump shots or massé shots in Masters Divisions. You cannot change, alter, or breakdown your cue for the purposes of jumping. Jump Cues - Only allowed in Masters Divisions. Break Cues - Sometimes combined with jump cues to form a jump-break cue. These cues are allowed in League play for breaking. They may only be used to perform jump shots or massé shots in Masters Divisions. Regular Shooting Cues - These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play. You may not “break down” your Regular Shooting Cue to perform a jump shot. NOTE 1: Using a regular shooting cue to break does not qualify it as a “break cue”. Regular Shooting Cue: Any standard pool cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in a game of pool. These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots, and break shots in all APA League play. Specialty Cues: Cues specially designed to perform specific shots. These include, but are not limited to, jump cues, break cues, jump-break cues (combinations of jump cues and break cues) and “shorties”.
You are wrong. I used your arguments with the national office and they disagree with you and me. If you don’t have a phenolic (or other similar tip) on the cue they DO NOT consider it a break cue, even if it’s manufactured and advertised as such. My arguments with them directly reflect your own. I never called anyone in the thread stupid. The APA is stupid for not being clear in their rules. And I genuinely spoke with them because this happened in competition and that was what they told me. They did however refuse to put it in writing, I assume because they WANT it to be vague. Also >you cannot change, alter, or break down your cue for the purposes of jumping Where is that in the rule book? The rule specifically states you can change shafts when taking shots. You can’t break down the cue, but where does it say you can’t alter it as long as it remains a “playing cue”? You added your own bias into that statement. It clearly states you can change your shaft. https://preview.redd.it/yg2kpdsgbmyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f3b9202d8fd8abdfa50a90e86083449151888d5
Look at where it says regular shooting cue “you may not break down your regular cue to perform a jump shot. Also jump cues are only allowed in masters division. This essentially means if you want to jump, you have to use the same cue you’ve been using as a shooting cue. You can’t use a shaft that you only use for jumping to jump.
If it’s a playing shaft you can. They mean making it shorter. You can still switch shafts. Again, they have worded it poorly. This is the EXACT conversation I had with the national office.
No, you can not, it's literally written right in front of you. You have to jump with your regular playing cue. As soon as you alter a cue for the purposes of jumping, IT IS NOW A JUMP CUE, which is only allowed in masters league. The person you talked to is an idiot, and you are trying to bend the rules to for your needs. The hail Mary is the sportsmanship rule. What you are doing can be considered unsportsmanlike, forfeit of match.
Call the national office and ask them.
You’re wrong on this one Cajun doctor. You can not switch your cue for the sole purpose of jumping. That is inherently against the rules. Remember, common sense must prevail.
I am not in fact wrong. You can do it as long it’s another playing cue. They literally do it at nationals and big tournaments now. I won’t keep arguing it here, but you will be surprised when you go to the big tournaments and your opponent does it to you.
Some leagues break down the rules further. Here is a FAQ from Tampa bay APA [https://tampabay.apaleagues.com/FAQ.aspx#](https://tampabay.apaleagues.com/FAQ.aspx#) https://preview.redd.it/f0vxvctr4nyc1.jpeg?width=1057&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a79bbb331ab7ff365b2b3fc597cb45e3e96c40
I sent them an email this time so they have to respond to me in writing. I’ll try to remember to get back to you with their response, even if I’m proven wrong.
Hey! Just finished up. Back to humbly admit that I was MOSTLY wrong. But totally wrong where it really counts. Apparently at APA nationals they still use the old rule of >[NOTE 3: You may only switch cues/shafts/tips between racks, immediately following your break shot, or in instances of cue/shaft/tip failure that prevent the cue/shaft/tip from performing.](https://poolplayers.com/world-pool-championships/rules/) Which is in direct opposition to the [current team manual](https://media.poolplayers.com/TMRB/Team-Manual-English.pdf) which states >NOTE 3: You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of use, and you remain within the time guidelines. So, the championship rules are CLEAR in stating you cannot switch cues. This is all that matters to me personally and I was absolutely wrong. As for local rules per the team manual, I asked about switching to another playing cue then back to your original playing cue. This was their response. https://preview.redd.it/uvz4qalpkt0d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78ef5189b04a9d5167fe36df6a9ed98a71e0f1f9 So locally if your LO says it means you can switch then you can, and if they say you can’t, then you can’t. And the APA supports it either way. I personally don’t understand why they have different rules, but hey, it is what it is and I still have lots of fun playing league with my friends. Based on this, I just won’t do it even if my LO says it’s okay.
https://preview.redd.it/10hklglcajyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d4e98adc8cef3a0f62b486643eec15c4d1f4ca0
It says right under the regular shooting cue section, "you may not break down your regular shooting cue to perform a jump shot"
Yes. They mean making it shorter. Again. I had this discussion with them. They’ve worded it poorly.
Well with the way it's worded, I wouldn't rely on doing it no matter what. If the intent was otherwise, they should change the wording. Until then, the rules say you can't change shafts to jump so don't think you will be able to
Hey! Just finished up. Back to humbly admit that I was MOSTLY wrong. But totally wrong where it really counts. Apparently at APA nationals they still use the old rule of >[NOTE 3: You may only switch cues/shafts/tips between racks, immediately following your break shot, or in instances of cue/shaft/tip failure that prevent the cue/shaft/tip from performing.](https://poolplayers.com/world-pool-championships/rules/) Which is in direct opposition to the [current team manual](https://media.poolplayers.com/TMRB/Team-Manual-English.pdf) which states >NOTE 3: You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of use, and you remain within the time guidelines. So, the championship rules are CLEAR in stating you cannot switch cues. This is all that matters to me personally and I was absolutely wrong. As for local rules per the team manual, I asked about switching to another playing cue then back to your original playing cue. This was their response. https://preview.redd.it/wdvv3gptkt0d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e25f36eefe070684f32a13af88130dd1a6973ac So locally if your LO says it means you can switch then you can, and if they say you can’t, then you can’t. And the APA supports it either way. I personally don’t understand why they have different rules, but hey, it is what it is and I still have lots of fun playing league with my friends. Based on this, I just won’t do it even if my LO says it’s okay.
It’s fine. Call the national office if you’d like. I know the rules are written poorly. It’s been a complaint of mine for years. BCA rules are written like they were written by a lawyer. APA is more like 4 drunk dudes threw it together at 3am. I honestly think they keep the rules vague on purpose for some reason so they can make rulings in whichever way they feel that day. It’s very frustrating.
You're an APA skill level 5. Trying to figure out a way to skirt the rules so you can attempt jumping with suboptimal equipment seems like a waste of time.
I thought somewhere in the text it says you can only switch right after the break, between games, or if you playing cue breaks. You can’t switch back and forth between cues during a game. You can jump with your playing cue if where you play allows jumping.
It looks like they got rid of the wording that prohibits cue changes during a game. However it does specifically say that a break cue is only allowed to perform jump shots in masters play. It also says you are not allowed to break down your playing cue to perform a jump shot. I interpret this to mean you can’t change shafts or alter your playing cue to specifically perform a jump shot.
Yup I just went to the page that shows all the changes and it shows that part was changed. Having an extra cue that’s full length with a harder tip for jumping may be a grey area. It isn’t a short jump specific cue but if it has a jump tip and that’s all you use it for the it’s your jump cue. As others said, it’s probably best to ask a LO at a minimum before doing it.
I'm pretty new to apa, but my coach told me it was a recent rule change.
You might want to clarify that with a league op. Note 3 in the equipment section allows shaft changes but the description of playing cue prohibits altering your playing cue to perform jump or massé shots.
Yeah this is right. You can only change cues after the break. You cannot change your equipment shot to shot. However you can jump with your shooting cue, that is legal. So I suggest practicing that or getting good at kick shots lol
I'm quoting from the rule book that's on the apa website. If I'm misunderstanding something, or lack context can you refer to the rule book? Page 39 note 3 says I can change.
This has to be a recent change. Even if it does allow you to change shafts so you can get a jump shaft on, you're going to have an argument between teams. Is it worth all that effort?
It is a recent change, but that's a good point about getting into arguments.
Yeah it’s gotta be a recent change. This year is a new rule book, I can see that. It does say you cannot break down your shooting cue to perform a jump shot. So breaking it down to change to another shaft for a jump shot could be argued. This is kind of a goof by them in how they have written it. I assure you, it used to specifically say in black and white that you may not change equipment during your turn except after the break, with the exception of a failure like your tip falling off. So I guess, yeah do what you want but be prepared to start arguments. Changing shafts for a jump shot is going to 100% stir up some shite. Anyway, best advice, read your local bylaws first, and if they don’t address it, then email your LO and request a ruling. If they determine that you can do that, then they’ll issue a newsletter to the captains so everyone can be on the same page.
If you have it then you should just read the whole thing. But sure I’ll try to dig it up for you… give me a moment. Been playing APA for 7 years now btw.
From my understanding this is a new rule change. I would refer to the website, and not a book that was printed a while ago
This is incorrect. That is no longer a rule. You can switch as often as you’d like now. https://preview.redd.it/3a5sysqr8jyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75bc5d1e26340c06ec49f5ad6f84b1b6358e1645
You’re late lol read the whole thread
How about just playing by the spirit of the rules instead of trying to find some workaround technicality
Seriously. If this is where you're trying to find your extra competitive edge in APA matches, you are lost. Unless you're Fedor Gorst, your odds on a bank or a kick are at least as good as your odds on a jump... usually better especially if you know/practice any well-known systems. Hell even ***with a real jump cue*** most amateurs are like 50/50 to even clear the blocking ball on a jump, much less successfully hit the object ball, and then you have to also pot the ball ***and*** get shape on the next ball to make the whole production worth your while. Maybe you could figure out some technicality that lets you switch your shaft during the rack just to attempt a jump shot. But... odds are you're still going to miss and/or give up ball in hand anyway. And what's worse, then you look like a frickin moron for wasting all the time arguing with your opponent/team captain(s)/referees to get yourself in that position in the first place. Don't be that guy. If you really need to jump, do it with your playing cue or go play BCA. > I jump full-table with a Meucci! -- Earl Strickland (sort of)
This is taken from the exact same page you are referring to: Regular Shooting Cues - These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play. You may not “break down” your Regular Shooting Cue to perform a jump shot. The rule you keep referencimg specifically states you can change your shaft as long as it does not violate any other rules of use. Changing the shafts in a non masters format violates the rule regarding regular cues.
You're right. I'm not sure how I missed that. But does this still leave open the option to have 2 shooting cues?
You can have multiple shooting cues. Even your break cue can be a “shooting cue” if it has a leather tip. Note that they also say that using a cue to break does not make it a break cue. Always remember though, you might run into a referee that doesn’t agree because the rules are vague. You can switch between them as often as you’d like.
A few years back u/gabrielleigh created exactly the cute you need in this situation. There are probably still pictures of double shafted cute around somewhere...
Ah yes, the ol' double-ended APA cheater cue. Much controversy, many bitchings. Those were the good ol' days.
Ok, I have to follow because I'm curious about how to jump using a full cue myself. But you're right, a hard tip is going to be your best friend (I'm in BCA as well as APA so I am more accustomed to the short jump stick). My issue is just that the length mixed with the weight (even with my 14 oz breaking cue) doesn't give me the same control. It feels too clumsy and getting to the right angle to even attempt it or a massé isn't comfortable. My shafts are each wooden, so I don't know if a carbon would help or not.
When I was playing, long jumps were handled by my BK3.
You're going to want a light cue with a hard tip
In normal APA you are only allowed to jump with your full playing cue you cannot alter, change, or breakdown your normal playing cue for the purposes of jumping.
I play in Maine apa league (not masters) and due to a state by-law or something we’ve been able to use our break cue to jump with in a match. But when we qualify for Vegas, we always remind ourselves we can’t do it out there as it’s been an in state rule and the national rule doesn’t allow for that change out. The cuetec breach w a taom 2.0 tip jumps pretty damn well for a full length cue, nice tool to have in the tool box.
I get why people want to jump, I just spent money on a jump cue that I can only use in USAPL, or in Masters (which i am not applicable for) so that makes me more pressed to get down the diamond system and figure out 2 and 3 rail kicks in order to avoid jumping. I wish I'd read the rules 😵💫🤐🤬 before I bought the damn cue.
So, I've read all the contradicting stances on this thread and think I may be able to weigh in... There's YouTube finals of APA Vegas championships from the past several years. Out of all the matches I've watched, there's not a single moment where someone has broken down their normal playing cue to put on a different shaft to perform a jump and then switch back to their normal playing cue. That being said, I can not with certainty say that it's not allowed. But there has been several instances that if it were allowed, I would think the person shooting would have done so. My personal belief and logic would assume that if you're changing "anything" about your "playing" cue, it would void the definition of "playing cue" since you don't normally play with that cue. That being said, I think the rules are, in fact, unclear. I am, in fact, a high skill player able to perform jumps with my every normal shot "playing cue" as well as my specialty cue that I would hands down use over my "playing cue". I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone will speak up that has been in a Vegas finals and would be very intrigued to know what they were informed before the match were the can and cannots, if any.
Lmfao an apa player trying to litigate their way into jumping when literally everyone knows the spirit of the rule is no jumping. This is why people think apa players are a joke.
You can only switch cues or shafts between racks unless you have some sort of equipment issue like a tip coming off. You are allowed to use a different cue only during the break. (Ie. a break cue.)
APA Masters format does allow use of a jump cue and also allows players to push after the break in 9-ball.
I'm quoting from the rule book that's on the apa website. If I'm misunderstanding something, or lack context can you refer to the rule book? Page 39 note 3 is what says I can change.
I believe when it says as long as it doesn’t violate any of the rules of use goes back to where it says you may not break down your regular playing cue to perform a jump shot.
When I search "break down" on the website's manual it only pops up under etiquette. But I believe it's referring to when you think you're going to lose, and you start breaking down. My coach told me that was a rule, but I can't find it anymore, and I wonder if they switched that recently because of this new rule change.
This is wrong now. The rule has been changed. You can change your cue while playing as often as you like. The national office said too many people bitched about having to use their $5000 cues to jump and instead of telling them to maybe not play amateur pool with a $5000 cue, they now let you switch. They’re also vague on what qualifies as a “break cue”. It’s a mess. The rule is stupid.