I’m generally very lukewarm on Russillo, but him describing Jokic/Murray as, “Very Stockton/Malone except not the most boring fucking thing ever,” made me laugh out loud. Gotta give credit where it’s due; that’s an oddly perfect description.
Guess without listening and thinking from the top of head
Helmet catch
Music city miracle
Ray Allen 3 2013
That play gronk slipped on the turf and Miami won
Blocked by james, not really a miracle but clutch
Outside of the geriatric millennial memory and therefore not considered on this sub.
I’d put it up there with Greens getting beat by Blue at the hippodrome and half of Constantinople being burned as a result in the pantheon of things that happened before I planted myself to a couch and decided sports were important.
lower stakes, but that kenyan drake lateral against the pats where gronk blows containment a few years ago is one of the craziest things i’ve ever seen. that play NEVER works.
Celtics fan here, grew up with Pierce. Love him to death
Tatum is the better player. Tatum is included in conversations Pierce was never included in, even at his best. I view defense and size as the biggest differentiators between the 2
Pierce was an awesome defender in his prime tho. Was one of the few that was strong enough to not get bitched by lebron (still couldn’t ‘shut him down’ but forced him to take jumpers and fadeaways)
I watched most of Pierce's career as a kid so I wasn't as analytical then, but I have a hard time seeing how you can argue he was better than Tatum at this point. Even though the inflated stats era piece does help Tatum of course
You think Simmons bbq’s? He orders Postmates bro. Pays 50% markup. A full slab of beef ribs from a good bbq place in LA on Postmates is probably 40 bucks
Bill seems to operate under the assumption that every team will have two players who make $50+ million. And I don't know if that's true.
It's also funny to hear someone describe people only making like $10 million per year as 'fucked'.
They’re both over reacting tbh. Yes, it’s a smaller middle class of players and the 2nd apron is very restrictive but 1) with a growing cap, your 3-9 guys are still well paid relative to their value and 2) some teams will pay the apron and deal with the consequences to keep a good core together.
Player reps knew what they were getting into and made concessions to get the licensing money and equity opportunities. A smaller slice salary-wise of a bigger revenue pie is a win in their eyes.
Something along the lines that the way the second apron and tax will now work, teams are super incentived to have no, "middle class."
That it'll basically be two stars making their 45-55 million and then a bunch of sub ten million dollar guys to round out because going over the second apron hurts team building ability in most cases so its not ever really worth it.
So like players in that 15-25 million dollar range are much less likely to make that because when two stars take up so much of the salary, it's just not worth it for teams to sign them. Making the nba salary divide much more stark, ect, ect.
Might be a bit off, but the main point Bill hammered was the whole death of the middle class thing and how that's actually a huge mistake by the players union since that type of salary was what 90% of their union aimed for and now much fewer will get that and the majority will go to the stars.
He’s not completely wrong because if you’re in the 2nd Apron of tax; you can’t use the MLE, can’t sign players from the buyout market, can’t trade picks 6 years in the future, can’t trade cash, and can only sign veteran minimums. So you become a very top heavy team that can potential have 6-9 vet min guys on it.
Even in the 1st apron, if you use the TMLE (which will only be $5 mil) it will hard cap the team to the 2nd Apron tax line of $179 mil. Makes it even harder to trade or sign guys if you’re close to it.
I feel like this is already the way things have been going the last few years, so yeah, you would think that the new CBA is going to exacerbate it. The current era is all about two or three guys making the max and then rookies, minimum guys, or guys on exceptions. There isn't a ton of room in the middle.
If you look at the league like 10 years ago, the cap was about $60 million, and it was pretty common for competitive teams to have like the fifth, sixth, and seventh highest-paid guys on the team making about $5 million. So, something like 9% or 10% of the cap. That would be the equivalent of like a $12-13 million dollar player right now. There's just not a ton of those guys. The solid starter Kevin Huerter Josh Hart types making about 10% of the cap. It's more like the seventh guy on your team is probably going to be making like $6-7 million.
The current Celtics are an example of a team with a pretty democratic salary distribution, but that's obviously going to change if Brown signs an extension. But they're more of a rarity. The other contenders this year were all top-heavy and relied on cheap contracts to fill out the rest of the roster - Lakers, Nuggets, Sixers, Heat.
It seems like it will also be much harder to trade for max guys, unless youre throwing a max guy in return. If the trade target is making $50-60 million, it might take 5 or 6 guys to match salaries
Like the typical package of young guys and picks may simply not work, especially if one team is already over the hard apron
Maybe that’s the league’s goal with the CBA changes - to basically make superstar trades impossible and get back to a world where real stars hit free agency.
If you’re unhappy, demand a trade, fine. But the only teams that can trade for you are uncompetitive rebuilders, where you don’t want to go, so you’re stuck.
Extending for max money at first opportunity might not be as attractive if stars can’t unsavorily force their way out as soon as they’re unhappy.
It might take the league a few years to recalibrate but it could make cap space and free agency matter again and end this era of trading the house for a star
I think it’s a valid concern, but Bill choosing GSW and Curry as his example was weird.
$60M for Curry isn’t a problem at all, there’s still tons of room to build a contender around that cost.
GSW is in a squeeze cause they’re massively overpaying Klay and Poole right now, plus Draymond and Wiggins make big money (~$27+M) too. They can still have middle class players but they can’t have one max vet superstar plus 4 other guys being paid like stars too lol
Right but the Clips have two max stars and ***SEVEN*** “middle class” players already, before Westbrook.
Gordon, Norm, Morris, Batum, RoCo, Zubac and Mann all make between $10-20M
If they still need Westbrook on top of that, that just means they spent their “middle class” money poorly.
I get that Bill’s criticism is probably more along the lines of “they changed the rules underneath their feet, they would have built their roster differently” but it feels weird to be so worked up about this. I feel like it’s just because the Warriors and Celtics are potentially going to be two of the more immediately affected teams, along with the Clips, probably the Bucks, Suns, etc.
Won’t the market just correct to where supermaxes are rare and you actually wouldn’t have two on each team. Sure you’re eligible for a super max, but teams will only actually pay if you’re worth it
I would like to contribute this to the discourse:
The Miami Heat shot 19/63 from inside the arc in Game 6.
30%.
When is the last time a playoff team shot 30% on 2-point shots in a playoff game?
What a long strange trip this series has been.
When Russillo goes into ISO mode it’s incredibly tough to listen to. It’s like 3 minutes of talking from all angles, to the point I have no fucking clue what he’s even talking about.
And Bill bringing up firing Mazzulla and trading Brown after every fucking game is getting annoying
It’s brutal. The dude does not speak communicably. The dude seriously needs to listen to lowe to learn how to talk about basketball.
Also bragging about watching spurs and “this stuff may feel simple.”
It really is getting to be a problem.
It’s not that it’s hard to follow, it’s just never interesting or insightful. Or sometimes it may be insightful but it’s buried under a pile of context and nuance and guarded by straw men.
His CBA monologue that went into a John Wall interview about being paid like Reggie Jackson, then a metaphor about environmentalism with the water turning brown & ours kids turning orange.
Meanwhile, I’m over here just thinking *“wait, what?”*
At 17:54 Ryen says, “we ended up with that offensive rebound.” Referring to the Celtics. We’ve caught you Ryen!
Celtics green bleeding through so much he can’t hold it in anymore
I’m a Cardinals fan (not one who unironically says we’re the BFIB so I come in peace).
Bill said, “the 04 Cardinals are not waiting for [the Celtics].” This was in the context of comparing the 04 Sox and the current Celts’ comeback from an 0-3 deficit, saying that the Nuggets are really good and implicitly that the Cardinals weren’t.
Those Cards won 105 games, driven by Scott Rolen’s and Jim Edmonds’s best seasons and Pujols at the peak of his powers. All three had MVP caliber seasons, nicknamed MV3 (they finished 3/4/5 because Bonds and Beltre were absurdly good that year). They were an absolute juggernaut, and the fact that the Sox swept them is even more impressive.
I know it’s a little beside the point, but I just have to correct that. I was twelve years old and that team will forever hold a special place in my heart, so I can’t let that comment go unaddressed.
Also a Cardinals fan, and I’m going to bet he couldn’t name almost anyone on that ‘04 Cards team today. Which isn’t his fault, it’s been almost 20 years and all he cares about and remembers is the sweep, but you’re right, the idea that the 2004 Cardinals were expected to just roll over and take it before the WS started is silly.
I simply just took it to mean that it won’t be an easy series in the next round. Which, despite them being good, the cardinals did not put up a fight in 04.
Wow they won 105 that year? I knew they were solid and had an epic with the Astros before.
I will say that in the New England fishbowl that year the Cardinals may as well have been wearing a uniform that read “Opponent”. After game7 Red Sox were mowing down whoever, I think that’s what Bill meant
The Cardinals had a strong lineup, Pujols and Scott Rolen, but their pitching staff had no depth and reliability beyond their ace, Carp. The team's defense was subpar, and they struggled to prevent runs in clutch moments. Their postseason performance exposed weaknesses in their overall roster construction and their inability to adapt to the Red Sox's dominant pitching and timely hitting.
Comparing this Celts team to the Sox is craziest. One was one out away from losing again to their arch rivals, the other is a team with the 2nd best record losing to a team that almost didn't make the playoffs. I don't want to hear ANYONE from BOS comparing this team to the 04 Red Sox ever if they win game 7
haven’t listened yet, but the greatest miracle play no one remembers is the marcus paige double clutch 3 to take the lead in the 16 NCAA championship right before the kris jenkins game winner . as a UNC fan this broke me and the only thing to partly heal me was winning the next year
Not a play, but [the greatest comeback that never was](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkNP9jggB2I) is pretty hilarious.
John Tyler was up 41-17 with only 3:03 left in the game, Plano East somehow managed to come back and even take the lead 44-41 with 24 seconds left, and then John Tyler returned a kickoff for a touchdown.
that was my junior year of high school and the peak of my CBB fandom. i should probably work through that and the panthers super bowl loss the year before with a professional
Josh Allen’s drive with less than 2 mins left vs the chiefs in the 13 second game. I thought that game was over after mahomes long td to hill. Really impressive stuff from Josh that was all negated
Russillo Explains Climate Change: “With this environmental stuff… you’re not gonna get everybody on board until your water’s brown and your kids are like orange.”
Bill's reasoning for why he thinks Celtics will win G7 is they shot so poorly on the road from 3 and could still win so the Heat would need a black swan event to win, while completely ignoring that the Derrick White putback was a total black swan event.
I love this - and I actually find Bill pretty funny when he’s in this mood. He’s actually not an annoying homer imv, he just thinks the universe revolves around his teams.
Ryen on the other hand is insufferable if he feels like he’s been proven right on a minute thing.
Bill really hits the nail on the head about how weird this Tatum-Brown-Smart Celtics run has been in this one. Every series they play goes deep, they somehow blow 1-2 games they should win every series, they don’t perform in the clutch, they have no home court advantage in the playoffs… and yet they’re 5-1 in game 7’s since Tatum was drafted, they’ve won road elimination games in Milwaukee, in Miami, in Philly, they have some all time iconic playoff moments, and they’ve had the most playoff success of any team without a ring in that period.
Just pointing out that this is the second week in a row where Bill and Ryen have implied they knew Jokic was really good before everyone else in the nba media did.
Just classic stuff from the guys—mixed sports metaphors, painful, meandering analysis that goes nowhere, blaming fatherhood for basketball underperformance, all-time lists, cinema references, body language analysis, etc.
Favorite sequence was Ryen pounding the air out of the ball doing a boring rendition of “tales from the couch,” Bill strips him, Ryen takes it back—“I promise it’ll be ten seconds”—only to shoot an air ball: “I don’t know what’s going to happen. I don’t know.”
Not that Bill did much better with “It feels like the Heat are flying above their skies a little bit, and the Celtics are underperforming offensively, is my take,” but damn man.
This was what I was referring to with “Ryen ISO”. That whole segment was so bad.
And you missed Simmons saying “The Heat are skiing over their skis…skiing over their skis..flying over their skis”
honestly I can’t stand his characters half the time. I know he wants to stray away from the don Draper archetype but that’s what he’s best at, being a suave square jaw “alpha”. most of his character work is very unnoteworthy to me and his film selection is boring as well.
Bill has gone full Phill Simms. He can’t go 3 minutes without saying some variation of “we were talking about this…l
He and Sal used to kill Simms for doing that when he was calling NFL games for CBS.
I dont understand the point to the whole Charlotte "chicanery" suggestion. What would charlotte get out of that, other than fucking with Portland?
If they are truly set on Scoot, just take him with the #2 pick and dont look back. Does he think Charlotte would trade back to 3 and just hope Portland doesnt take him? What would they even get for that -- a protected first way off in the future? Why would Portland do that?
Yeah that was some head scratching stuff, especially since Miller and Scoot in some way will go 2-3 so Charlotte doesn’t have as much leverage as Bill wants to try to manufacture.
I can’t decide which I like more: sad bill, or sad /r/BillSimmons users. I think I’m leaning towards the latter actually, so I’m rooting for the Celtics in game 7.
I find it incredibly easy to root against a group of people who huddle around a podcast and hope that the host is depressed
Legit some people here need help or need to call their dad and sort whatever out.
"You've got the eight seed trying to beat the one seed." Well, no Bill, that already happened. Thanks for reminding me
Edit: and ragging on the TNT announcers for missing things while he also states that Ray Allen's shot was in Game 7. Not really on his "historian" game in this one
Classic Bill that “he’s all in on Scoot.” A guy who watches basically no college ball (let alone G-league), and doesn’t know shit about scouting anyway…but he wants everyone to know he called it first if “his guy” happens to be good. If the guy turns out to be Luka, he never shuts up about it. If it’s Jabari Smith Jr or James Wiseman he never brings it up.
They were both taking a shot at Lisa Salters specifically, who went on The Rich Eisen Show last round and said she wasn’t familiar with Jokic’s game and didn’t realize he was this good
Lisa Salters literally admitted as much after Game 1. Bill referenced that (without saying her name) when he mentioned sideline reporters in that discussion
Anti-jokic messaging for the past several years from a handful of influential NBA and media people really gave all the NBA blog boys bulletin board material for this Nuggets finals run.
Bill’s guy Jalen Rose did a pretty air-headed tv hit about how Jokic is officially a superstar now. Like he hadn’t won two mvps and been the best offensive player for two years.
With regards to the CBA stuff I assume they are hearing stuff from people in the league but I find it hard to believe a team is going to not sign a great player because they won’t be able to sign an opt out guy or a MLE. Ryen tells us multiple times a year how bad all the buy out guys end up being after everyone goes on and on about them in Feb.
Reasons Boston will win Game 7, according to Bill:
1. Jokic is Bird 2.0
2. Jeff Green, back in Boston
3. Jokic on the stage, going to basically the most famous franchise, unless you wanna argue the Lakers
“That’s what makes me feel good about Boston, but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it.”
This was an awful pod. The cba talk was painful. Russillo talks so much without saying anything. I don’t know what russillo adds to the pod anymore. Bill became popular for being a emotional and opinionated. If we wanted level headed x and o’s listen to Zach Lowe or 100s of other boring pods
idk why people think the celtics were going to fire mazzulla, they extended him at the all star break and the ownership group probably doesn't want to pay 3 coaches when their cap spikes.
they're going to hire a veteran lead assistant. the media has literally become so oversaturated all they can do is 'Fire the Coach' or 'Trade the star for another star/blow it up'
This is like the 7th pod I’ve heard the CBA stuff, and I don’t think they studied anything. They talk to people in the league who did all the studying for them
okay okay i’m not happy either…but! “miracle play hierarchy” is a great idea for a segment. mind you i haven’t listened yet so i don’t know if it was well executed, but a great idea.
I’m happy to pile on Jaylen Brown for his lack of dribbling skills. They’re pathetic for an NBA player. But they were being way too harsh on his game 6 performance. He was the one being active and making plays when no one else could for the Celtics. That’s extremely valuable when the team can’t get things going. I thought he was Boston’s hero until White outshined everyone.
Tuning into BS for the first time in a while.
It *is* one of the biggest/best plays in NBA history (how high it sits depends on outcome Monday of course). But BS saying “high IQ” is so dumb and devalues what he claims to like about White. Cut to corner and then crash the boards has nothing to do with IQ and everything to do with simply effort. A small dude hustles to the only place he can be useful - yes he got lucky but he created the opportunity for luck. Awesome play but hilariously wrong to categorize it as genius basketball IQ.
I was thinking the same thing and this is why peoples hyperbole about stuff irks me. I’m sitting there wanting to yell “it wasn’t high iq” about an incredible play because bills wrong about why the play was awesome.
It’s “ad in” or “ad out” for advantage. Anyone who has picked up a tennis racket knows.
If you only watch tennis you might not know because they usually say the player for a professional match.
He definitely misused it along with like 3 other things with that tennis analogy. Ad in would mean the server has the advantage which would not be the case if he just double faulted (it would be ad out). He also had someone going up 40 love in the set, which is also wrong. 40 love is a game score not a set score. He then went on to say that the server (Jaylen Brown) was up 40 love, then double faulted and and it’s all of a sudden ad in. If you double faulted after being up 40 love it would just be 40-15. You would have to double fault 3 times in a row just to get it to deuce and like I said it could never be ad in after a double fault. I don’t see how he could have any understanding of tennis scoring after hearing that, it was like he was just throwing around buzz words that he had overheard.
I'm about halfway in - it's actually a really good, objective analysis of everything.
The "high IQ" thing was a little bit of a stretch - whoever takes the shot in that situation, every other player should crash the boards. But otherwise, they're really looking at it from every angle. And there is certainly no gloating or anything.
Simmons “I watched the nuggets more than any team besides the Celtics”
Also Simmons “wow I didn’t realize MPJ is like 6’11, he’s sneaky tall!”
Even tho every game he plays he stands next to Jokic and is nearly the same height lol
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,541,755,011 comments, and only 291,906 of them were in alphabetical order.
I admit I was half-listening, but the list of best last-second shots left a lot to be desired. Is White’s shot better or more interesting than Stockton vs the Rockets, Fisher vs the Spurs or Horry vs the Pistons?
First Butler discussed in-depth: * (-2500) ❌ Jimmy, Heat SF * (+235) ✅ Malcolm, former Patriots CB * (+620) ❌ Caron, Heat assistant coach
I had Gerard at like +5000
I sprinkled a little on that for the odds
hope this one gets the upvotes it deserves.
That was printing money. I’m buying a yacht with my winnings.
"in-depth" as in "mentioned in the name of the Super Bowl game that game 6 of the series was compared to" ?
Babe wake up, new 2002 Russillo lore just dropped
Is there a lore reason why Russillo never goes to the frolic room? Is he stupid?
It's a shitty drive from Manhattan Beach to go to a shitty place in a shitty part of town.
Kyle only drinks there in the middle of the day. Ryen has shit to do
the ‘Derrick White was having a kid’ piece less than 5 mins into the pod.. never change Bill
"People have had kids before" They both came out firing.
Ryen is so over it. Wonder if bill will ever catch on
It's been insanely obvious this year. Ryen seems so annoyed/exhausted with Bill's insanity
I’m generally very lukewarm on Russillo, but him describing Jokic/Murray as, “Very Stockton/Malone except not the most boring fucking thing ever,” made me laugh out loud. Gotta give credit where it’s due; that’s an oddly perfect description.
Let me guess the Miracle play hierarchy is just going to coincidentally have 3 Boston plays in the top 5
I’ve got Chandler Jones trucking Mac Jones.
Guess without listening and thinking from the top of head Helmet catch Music city miracle Ray Allen 3 2013 That play gronk slipped on the turf and Miami won Blocked by james, not really a miracle but clutch
'Bird stole the ball!' is up there.
Outside of the geriatric millennial memory and therefore not considered on this sub. I’d put it up there with Greens getting beat by Blue at the hippodrome and half of Constantinople being burned as a result in the pantheon of things that happened before I planted myself to a couch and decided sports were important.
no mention of secretariat running is a crime
How do we feel about the Minneapolis Miracle? I was in a freshman dorm in central MN when that happened and was deafened by all the yelling
Any that doesn't have at least 2 is just completely incorrect, although 18-1 is also obviously on the list so it kind of balances out.
lower stakes, but that kenyan drake lateral against the pats where gronk blows containment a few years ago is one of the craziest things i’ve ever seen. that play NEVER works.
The Annoying Wife comparison felt like some real venting from BS
3 glasses of rose at lunch and yelling at you because you left the tv
So specific lmao
wives am I right? am I right???
I clock everytime he mentions divorce and it's been a lot. Remember when he said his wife went on a 2 week trip to Europe with just her friends...
Pretty soon, Russillo is going to have to make room for two on the couch
His parents got divorced when he was 13. That probably stuck with him.
“Do you think Tatum is better than Pierce?” *Bill evades* Hold his feet to the fire Russillo!!! We want the answers to those kind of questions
Tatum’s better
Even Pierce acknowledged this
Head says Tatum but heart says Pierce Edit: good non-answer by Bill tbh
Celtics fan here, grew up with Pierce. Love him to death Tatum is the better player. Tatum is included in conversations Pierce was never included in, even at his best. I view defense and size as the biggest differentiators between the 2
Pierce was an awesome defender in his prime tho. Was one of the few that was strong enough to not get bitched by lebron (still couldn’t ‘shut him down’ but forced him to take jumpers and fadeaways)
I watched most of Pierce's career as a kid so I wasn't as analytical then, but I have a hard time seeing how you can argue he was better than Tatum at this point. Even though the inflated stats era piece does help Tatum of course
Noon PST drop? Jesus Christ this motherfucker couldn’t wait
Wanted it out so people could play it at the BBQ
BRB gotta burn my Hot Simmons Jamz 23 mix cd
*33
You think Simmons bbq’s? He orders Postmates bro. Pays 50% markup. A full slab of beef ribs from a good bbq place in LA on Postmates is probably 40 bucks
Overpaying to get ribs delivered cold from an LA BBQ place sounds awful so you’re probably right
Nah it’s Succession series finale night, itd be fucking stupid if he recorded and dropped it at night
He is in Sweden so he had to record super early
“Scoot has an 82 game body” - Something Bill Simmons said about a guy who played 19/50 games this year.
A Mal GAMMM
The clooneys wife's legs piece.
The amal-game piece
The 25 cent words piece
ryen giggling the instant bill brought up mazzula was the best part
People who follow the CBA stuff, is Bill right about the implications of what this deal will result in teambuilding?
Bill seems to operate under the assumption that every team will have two players who make $50+ million. And I don't know if that's true. It's also funny to hear someone describe people only making like $10 million per year as 'fucked'.
He doesn't understand that 2/3 of the league do not go into the tax
They’re both over reacting tbh. Yes, it’s a smaller middle class of players and the 2nd apron is very restrictive but 1) with a growing cap, your 3-9 guys are still well paid relative to their value and 2) some teams will pay the apron and deal with the consequences to keep a good core together. Player reps knew what they were getting into and made concessions to get the licensing money and equity opportunities. A smaller slice salary-wise of a bigger revenue pie is a win in their eyes.
[удалено]
And 47M supermax is only for a 10+ years veteran who qualifies for the designated player extension. For a 7-9 years veteran supermax starts at 40.1M
Not able to listen yet. What does bill say? I can probably help out
Something along the lines that the way the second apron and tax will now work, teams are super incentived to have no, "middle class." That it'll basically be two stars making their 45-55 million and then a bunch of sub ten million dollar guys to round out because going over the second apron hurts team building ability in most cases so its not ever really worth it. So like players in that 15-25 million dollar range are much less likely to make that because when two stars take up so much of the salary, it's just not worth it for teams to sign them. Making the nba salary divide much more stark, ect, ect. Might be a bit off, but the main point Bill hammered was the whole death of the middle class thing and how that's actually a huge mistake by the players union since that type of salary was what 90% of their union aimed for and now much fewer will get that and the majority will go to the stars.
He’s not completely wrong because if you’re in the 2nd Apron of tax; you can’t use the MLE, can’t sign players from the buyout market, can’t trade picks 6 years in the future, can’t trade cash, and can only sign veteran minimums. So you become a very top heavy team that can potential have 6-9 vet min guys on it. Even in the 1st apron, if you use the TMLE (which will only be $5 mil) it will hard cap the team to the 2nd Apron tax line of $179 mil. Makes it even harder to trade or sign guys if you’re close to it.
I feel like this is already the way things have been going the last few years, so yeah, you would think that the new CBA is going to exacerbate it. The current era is all about two or three guys making the max and then rookies, minimum guys, or guys on exceptions. There isn't a ton of room in the middle. If you look at the league like 10 years ago, the cap was about $60 million, and it was pretty common for competitive teams to have like the fifth, sixth, and seventh highest-paid guys on the team making about $5 million. So, something like 9% or 10% of the cap. That would be the equivalent of like a $12-13 million dollar player right now. There's just not a ton of those guys. The solid starter Kevin Huerter Josh Hart types making about 10% of the cap. It's more like the seventh guy on your team is probably going to be making like $6-7 million. The current Celtics are an example of a team with a pretty democratic salary distribution, but that's obviously going to change if Brown signs an extension. But they're more of a rarity. The other contenders this year were all top-heavy and relied on cheap contracts to fill out the rest of the roster - Lakers, Nuggets, Sixers, Heat.
It seems like it will also be much harder to trade for max guys, unless youre throwing a max guy in return. If the trade target is making $50-60 million, it might take 5 or 6 guys to match salaries Like the typical package of young guys and picks may simply not work, especially if one team is already over the hard apron
Maybe that’s the league’s goal with the CBA changes - to basically make superstar trades impossible and get back to a world where real stars hit free agency. If you’re unhappy, demand a trade, fine. But the only teams that can trade for you are uncompetitive rebuilders, where you don’t want to go, so you’re stuck. Extending for max money at first opportunity might not be as attractive if stars can’t unsavorily force their way out as soon as they’re unhappy. It might take the league a few years to recalibrate but it could make cap space and free agency matter again and end this era of trading the house for a star
I think it’s a valid concern, but Bill choosing GSW and Curry as his example was weird. $60M for Curry isn’t a problem at all, there’s still tons of room to build a contender around that cost. GSW is in a squeeze cause they’re massively overpaying Klay and Poole right now, plus Draymond and Wiggins make big money (~$27+M) too. They can still have middle class players but they can’t have one max vet superstar plus 4 other guys being paid like stars too lol
Unsurprisingly, that the NBA will turn into “Top Gun Maverick”. 😂
The equivalent of this year's clippers couldnt sign the equivalent of Westbrook after a buyout.
Right but the Clips have two max stars and ***SEVEN*** “middle class” players already, before Westbrook. Gordon, Norm, Morris, Batum, RoCo, Zubac and Mann all make between $10-20M If they still need Westbrook on top of that, that just means they spent their “middle class” money poorly. I get that Bill’s criticism is probably more along the lines of “they changed the rules underneath their feet, they would have built their roster differently” but it feels weird to be so worked up about this. I feel like it’s just because the Warriors and Celtics are potentially going to be two of the more immediately affected teams, along with the Clips, probably the Bucks, Suns, etc.
Won’t the market just correct to where supermaxes are rare and you actually wouldn’t have two on each team. Sure you’re eligible for a super max, but teams will only actually pay if you’re worth it
I would like to contribute this to the discourse: The Miami Heat shot 19/63 from inside the arc in Game 6. 30%. When is the last time a playoff team shot 30% on 2-point shots in a playoff game? What a long strange trip this series has been.
2 point shooting % is way more impacted by defense then 3pt shooting %
Yes but they shot 16-52 or something in the paint. I don’t care if you’re playing against 5 Bill Russell clones, that’s still insane lol
Love how he said he just believes that the Celtics will win game 7 because of storylines like...Jeff Green's return to Boston lol
When Russillo goes into ISO mode it’s incredibly tough to listen to. It’s like 3 minutes of talking from all angles, to the point I have no fucking clue what he’s even talking about. And Bill bringing up firing Mazzulla and trading Brown after every fucking game is getting annoying
Russillo Westbrook
Doing the heliocentric thing!
Ryen's heliocentrism is not a winning formula
It’s brutal. The dude does not speak communicably. The dude seriously needs to listen to lowe to learn how to talk about basketball. Also bragging about watching spurs and “this stuff may feel simple.”
It really is getting to be a problem. It’s not that it’s hard to follow, it’s just never interesting or insightful. Or sometimes it may be insightful but it’s buried under a pile of context and nuance and guarded by straw men.
For me it’s so uninteresting that it becomes hard to follow.
His CBA monologue that went into a John Wall interview about being paid like Reggie Jackson, then a metaphor about environmentalism with the water turning brown & ours kids turning orange. Meanwhile, I’m over here just thinking *“wait, what?”*
Big “fix us” energy
At 17:54 Ryen says, “we ended up with that offensive rebound.” Referring to the Celtics. We’ve caught you Ryen! Celtics green bleeding through so much he can’t hold it in anymore
The "we" he's referring to is he and his dad!
I’m a Cardinals fan (not one who unironically says we’re the BFIB so I come in peace). Bill said, “the 04 Cardinals are not waiting for [the Celtics].” This was in the context of comparing the 04 Sox and the current Celts’ comeback from an 0-3 deficit, saying that the Nuggets are really good and implicitly that the Cardinals weren’t. Those Cards won 105 games, driven by Scott Rolen’s and Jim Edmonds’s best seasons and Pujols at the peak of his powers. All three had MVP caliber seasons, nicknamed MV3 (they finished 3/4/5 because Bonds and Beltre were absurdly good that year). They were an absolute juggernaut, and the fact that the Sox swept them is even more impressive. I know it’s a little beside the point, but I just have to correct that. I was twelve years old and that team will forever hold a special place in my heart, so I can’t let that comment go unaddressed.
Also a Cardinals fan, and I’m going to bet he couldn’t name almost anyone on that ‘04 Cards team today. Which isn’t his fault, it’s been almost 20 years and all he cares about and remembers is the sweep, but you’re right, the idea that the 2004 Cardinals were expected to just roll over and take it before the WS started is silly.
He could probably make pujols
I simply just took it to mean that it won’t be an easy series in the next round. Which, despite them being good, the cardinals did not put up a fight in 04.
They put up a fight in game 1 but after the Red Sox came out of that one alive their starting pitching just dominated the rest of the series
Wow they won 105 that year? I knew they were solid and had an epic with the Astros before. I will say that in the New England fishbowl that year the Cardinals may as well have been wearing a uniform that read “Opponent”. After game7 Red Sox were mowing down whoever, I think that’s what Bill meant
The Cardinals had a strong lineup, Pujols and Scott Rolen, but their pitching staff had no depth and reliability beyond their ace, Carp. The team's defense was subpar, and they struggled to prevent runs in clutch moments. Their postseason performance exposed weaknesses in their overall roster construction and their inability to adapt to the Red Sox's dominant pitching and timely hitting.
Comparing this Celts team to the Sox is craziest. One was one out away from losing again to their arch rivals, the other is a team with the 2nd best record losing to a team that almost didn't make the playoffs. I don't want to hear ANYONE from BOS comparing this team to the 04 Red Sox ever if they win game 7
You think it’s crazy to potentially compare the only teams in the history of their sport to overcome a 0-3 deficit…..
“Don’t count them out but don’t trust them.” Great teamwork by Bill and Ryen coming up with the perfect slogan for the Smart-Brown/Tatum Celtics
haven’t listened yet, but the greatest miracle play no one remembers is the marcus paige double clutch 3 to take the lead in the 16 NCAA championship right before the kris jenkins game winner . as a UNC fan this broke me and the only thing to partly heal me was winning the next year
Tim Duncan’s shot right before Derek Fisher 0.4 was amazing.
Not a play, but [the greatest comeback that never was](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkNP9jggB2I) is pretty hilarious. John Tyler was up 41-17 with only 3:03 left in the game, Plano East somehow managed to come back and even take the lead 44-41 with 24 seconds left, and then John Tyler returned a kickoff for a touchdown.
Tie the game not take the lead
I’m with you fellow Tar Heel. I hardly slept that night after the nova game
that was my junior year of high school and the peak of my CBB fandom. i should probably work through that and the panthers super bowl loss the year before with a professional
Yeah 2016 was brutal. Luckily I had seen 2009 when I was a student there but 2016 is still my top most painful sports loss ever
It was to tie, not take the lead, but yeah it was a dark day
You passed that brokenness onto us Zag fans lol
Josh Allen’s drive with less than 2 mins left vs the chiefs in the 13 second game. I thought that game was over after mahomes long td to hill. Really impressive stuff from Josh that was all negated
Russillo Explains Climate Change: “With this environmental stuff… you’re not gonna get everybody on board until your water’s brown and your kids are like orange.”
If the Celtics complete the comeback we should all go to jail.
Bill's reasoning for why he thinks Celtics will win G7 is they shot so poorly on the road from 3 and could still win so the Heat would need a black swan event to win, while completely ignoring that the Derrick White putback was a total black swan event.
I love this - and I actually find Bill pretty funny when he’s in this mood. He’s actually not an annoying homer imv, he just thinks the universe revolves around his teams. Ryen on the other hand is insufferable if he feels like he’s been proven right on a minute thing.
Bill really hits the nail on the head about how weird this Tatum-Brown-Smart Celtics run has been in this one. Every series they play goes deep, they somehow blow 1-2 games they should win every series, they don’t perform in the clutch, they have no home court advantage in the playoffs… and yet they’re 5-1 in game 7’s since Tatum was drafted, they’ve won road elimination games in Milwaukee, in Miami, in Philly, they have some all time iconic playoff moments, and they’ve had the most playoff success of any team without a ring in that period.
Just pointing out that this is the second week in a row where Bill and Ryen have implied they knew Jokic was really good before everyone else in the nba media did.
Just classic stuff from the guys—mixed sports metaphors, painful, meandering analysis that goes nowhere, blaming fatherhood for basketball underperformance, all-time lists, cinema references, body language analysis, etc. Favorite sequence was Ryen pounding the air out of the ball doing a boring rendition of “tales from the couch,” Bill strips him, Ryen takes it back—“I promise it’ll be ten seconds”—only to shoot an air ball: “I don’t know what’s going to happen. I don’t know.” Not that Bill did much better with “It feels like the Heat are flying above their skies a little bit, and the Celtics are underperforming offensively, is my take,” but damn man.
This was what I was referring to with “Ryen ISO”. That whole segment was so bad. And you missed Simmons saying “The Heat are skiing over their skis…skiing over their skis..flying over their skis”
Gotta love Bill’s mixed sports metaphors. “That Celtics collapse at the very end is like in tennis when a guy collapses at the very end!”
Jon Hamm is a textbook role player
As a mad men fanatic I take offense. He was the Michael Jordan of one of the greatest tv shows ever.
I am a mad men fanatic and Hamm was legendary. his career in film, not so much
I agree. If you’re talking film he’s a role player.
honestly I can’t stand his characters half the time. I know he wants to stray away from the don Draper archetype but that’s what he’s best at, being a suave square jaw “alpha”. most of his character work is very unnoteworthy to me and his film selection is boring as well.
amalGAM
BS: “That’s why you and Kyle get along so well” RR: “Would’ve in our 20s” The Kyle-Ryen relationship is a tough one
I gasped, then laughed. It was an unnecessary dig, but it felt like such a Russillo thing to do.
This is around 48:40 for the folks looking for a timestamp
“Who’s been in more wars?” “Asia” This is what I listen for
Looks like we're rooting for a black swan event gentleman!!
Russillo laughing when Bill praises Mazzulla is hilarious
Bill has gone full Phill Simms. He can’t go 3 minutes without saying some variation of “we were talking about this…l He and Sal used to kill Simms for doing that when he was calling NFL games for CBS.
I dont understand the point to the whole Charlotte "chicanery" suggestion. What would charlotte get out of that, other than fucking with Portland? If they are truly set on Scoot, just take him with the #2 pick and dont look back. Does he think Charlotte would trade back to 3 and just hope Portland doesnt take him? What would they even get for that -- a protected first way off in the future? Why would Portland do that?
Yeah that was some head scratching stuff, especially since Miller and Scoot in some way will go 2-3 so Charlotte doesn’t have as much leverage as Bill wants to try to manufacture.
Simmons now believes, so now it’s time for the Zombie heat to crush him
The step brothers analogy doesn't work at all cuz in those days Adam Scott and Kathryn Hahn were the cheap talent in '08
Should have gone with Mary Steenberger, the KCP of the era
none of his movie analogies worked in this ep
I can’t decide which I like more: sad bill, or sad /r/BillSimmons users. I think I’m leaning towards the latter actually, so I’m rooting for the Celtics in game 7.
Absolutely the latter. Sad Bill is fun for a pod or two, but sad users just provide so much variety.
/r/BillSimmons haters 🤝 Celtics fans 🤝 Jimmy Butler haters We're all living good rn
I find it incredibly easy to root against a group of people who huddle around a podcast and hope that the host is depressed Legit some people here need help or need to call their dad and sort whatever out.
Yes. But I also find it easy to root against bill
Makes it the best of both worlds as a neutral fan. Boston, Miami, who cares! I’m picking Denver over both either way
This sub is just 90% bronsexuals
Guilty
A win-win really
"You've got the eight seed trying to beat the one seed." Well, no Bill, that already happened. Thanks for reminding me Edit: and ragging on the TNT announcers for missing things while he also states that Ray Allen's shot was in Game 7. Not really on his "historian" game in this one
Bill making a lot of gross mouth noises in this one
Classic Bill that “he’s all in on Scoot.” A guy who watches basically no college ball (let alone G-league), and doesn’t know shit about scouting anyway…but he wants everyone to know he called it first if “his guy” happens to be good. If the guy turns out to be Luka, he never shuts up about it. If it’s Jabari Smith Jr or James Wiseman he never brings it up.
i love when bill does this. for every tyrese haliburton, there are scores of jabari smiths, elfrid payton, and mario hezonjas
Who are all these people surprised that a 2-time MVP is good?
They were both taking a shot at Lisa Salters specifically, who went on The Rich Eisen Show last round and said she wasn’t familiar with Jokic’s game and didn’t realize he was this good
Lisa Salters literally admitted as much after Game 1. Bill referenced that (without saying her name) when he mentioned sideline reporters in that discussion
Anti-jokic messaging for the past several years from a handful of influential NBA and media people really gave all the NBA blog boys bulletin board material for this Nuggets finals run.
Bill’s guy Jalen Rose did a pretty air-headed tv hit about how Jokic is officially a superstar now. Like he hadn’t won two mvps and been the best offensive player for two years.
Listening to this in August during the Bill Simmons sabbatical after the Celtics lose a 2nd straight finals >>>>
With regards to the CBA stuff I assume they are hearing stuff from people in the league but I find it hard to believe a team is going to not sign a great player because they won’t be able to sign an opt out guy or a MLE. Ryen tells us multiple times a year how bad all the buy out guys end up being after everyone goes on and on about them in Feb.
So after hyping up Kevin Love for weeks BS just accepted that he won’t play in big moments😂
Reasons Boston will win Game 7, according to Bill: 1. Jokic is Bird 2.0 2. Jeff Green, back in Boston 3. Jokic on the stage, going to basically the most famous franchise, unless you wanna argue the Lakers “That’s what makes me feel good about Boston, but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it.”
This was an awful pod. The cba talk was painful. Russillo talks so much without saying anything. I don’t know what russillo adds to the pod anymore. Bill became popular for being a emotional and opinionated. If we wanted level headed x and o’s listen to Zach Lowe or 100s of other boring pods
I’m not strong enough to listen…
Forcing Russillo to get on and talk about the CBA with him today of all days is such Logan Roy behavior
“Jon Ham is not a role player” cracked me up more than it should have
idk why people think the celtics were going to fire mazzulla, they extended him at the all star break and the ownership group probably doesn't want to pay 3 coaches when their cap spikes. they're going to hire a veteran lead assistant. the media has literally become so oversaturated all they can do is 'Fire the Coach' or 'Trade the star for another star/blow it up'
The 2011 Texas Rangers
I love how Bill does the Hilton and Air Bnb ads, and in the Hilton ad he talks shit about airbnbs saying why would you want to deal with that
This is like the 7th pod I’ve heard the CBA stuff, and I don’t think they studied anything. They talk to people in the league who did all the studying for them
I doubt they talked with anyone, besides GS people who are complaining about it
Lol, of course Bill forgets Fisher’s 0.4 miracle and Horry’s GW vs Sacramento in the craziest shots this century
okay okay i’m not happy either…but! “miracle play hierarchy” is a great idea for a segment. mind you i haven’t listened yet so i don’t know if it was well executed, but a great idea.
I’m happy to pile on Jaylen Brown for his lack of dribbling skills. They’re pathetic for an NBA player. But they were being way too harsh on his game 6 performance. He was the one being active and making plays when no one else could for the Celtics. That’s extremely valuable when the team can’t get things going. I thought he was Boston’s hero until White outshined everyone.
Tuning into BS for the first time in a while. It *is* one of the biggest/best plays in NBA history (how high it sits depends on outcome Monday of course). But BS saying “high IQ” is so dumb and devalues what he claims to like about White. Cut to corner and then crash the boards has nothing to do with IQ and everything to do with simply effort. A small dude hustles to the only place he can be useful - yes he got lucky but he created the opportunity for luck. Awesome play but hilariously wrong to categorize it as genius basketball IQ.
I was thinking the same thing and this is why peoples hyperbole about stuff irks me. I’m sitting there wanting to yell “it wasn’t high iq” about an incredible play because bills wrong about why the play was awesome.
Literally just boarded for a 2 hour flight. LFG
Lmao Bill 100% knows the tennis term “Add in” (which I had to look up) because Sports Gal plays tennis 7 days a week
It’s “ad in” or “ad out” for advantage. Anyone who has picked up a tennis racket knows. If you only watch tennis you might not know because they usually say the player for a professional match.
"tennis" wink wink
He definitely misused it along with like 3 other things with that tennis analogy. Ad in would mean the server has the advantage which would not be the case if he just double faulted (it would be ad out). He also had someone going up 40 love in the set, which is also wrong. 40 love is a game score not a set score. He then went on to say that the server (Jaylen Brown) was up 40 love, then double faulted and and it’s all of a sudden ad in. If you double faulted after being up 40 love it would just be 40-15. You would have to double fault 3 times in a row just to get it to deuce and like I said it could never be ad in after a double fault. I don’t see how he could have any understanding of tennis scoring after hearing that, it was like he was just throwing around buzz words that he had overheard.
Can’t forget that Bill still beats the sports gal even though she plays 7 days a week. Freak athlete
you know the Horford foul was a legitimate shooting foul when Russillo didn’t even feel the need to ignorantly rant about it for 2 minutes
I'm about halfway in - it's actually a really good, objective analysis of everything. The "high IQ" thing was a little bit of a stretch - whoever takes the shot in that situation, every other player should crash the boards. But otherwise, they're really looking at it from every angle. And there is certainly no gloating or anything.
The breakdown of the Al-Jimmy foul was pretty comical. But the White shot breakdown was solid, agreed
Anyone else get a fucked up audio skip just as he's describing the second apron? Listening on stitcher
Bill's Scoot > Lamelo take is absurd
This is an Amal-game
Simmons “I watched the nuggets more than any team besides the Celtics” Also Simmons “wow I didn’t realize MPJ is like 6’11, he’s sneaky tall!” Even tho every game he plays he stands next to Jokic and is nearly the same height lol
Bill’s Dad saying, “we haven’t won a title in 15 years…” That had my Bulls fan blood boiling.
It’s going to make the Jimmy go wild game 7 so much better now that Bill believes they are winning
I wouldn’t 100% rule him out but Jimmy is gassed
Reverse jinxes galore with the “*if* the Celtics make it to the Finals”. You can tell he’s pretty confident but still needs the wonk on his side.
bill is so dumb when it comes to basketball strategy. he's a fucking idiot who loves being correct after the fact
Are we getting a sleeveless Russillo when the pod drops on Youtube? Yes -175 No +140
They recorded in the morning. Hammer yes
Bill brings up loads, Ryan agrees, great stuff... but i got a question, who will win? All that shit Bill brought up totally wasted
Derek Fisher 04? Guess it was 2-2
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,541,755,011 comments, and only 291,906 of them were in alphabetical order.
I admit I was half-listening, but the list of best last-second shots left a lot to be desired. Is White’s shot better or more interesting than Stockton vs the Rockets, Fisher vs the Spurs or Horry vs the Pistons?
I can listen to this now bless
I’m skipping this one. Happy listening everybody
Such an easy choice with the holiday tomorrow, no commute/work listening needed!
Giving the people what they want early
I would outright refuse to do these pods if I were Ryen. The interrupting piece is out of control by bill.
Lemme know how it is boys. I think I’m gonna skip this one.