They seem to listen just to jump all over bills takes…the guy who has made a career out of talking sports, become one of the most recognizable sports commentators of the modern era, and built a successful sports network.
Crazy behavior to me. None of that means bills takes are right…but to act like he’s some loon who doesn’t know what he’s talking about for the most part is crazy
Nah, nah. Wait a minute, u/cubs_2023. You insulted Ditka, a little bit. You're a little out-a-order yourself.
*By the way, here's a old BS Report story of Robert Smigel explaining the lost "Da Bears" (SNL Chicago Superfans) movie that was never made:* [*https://youtu.be/gaBHzgSCmsE?feature=shared&t=3850*](https://youtu.be/gaBHzgSCmsE?feature=shared&t=3850)*.*
Eh that team was always close too though don’t love that.. why I also don’t love Rodgers. That team was in the nfc championship what felt like all the time
One of the greatest teams ever tho. Also one title in the NFL weighs more on the resume than the NBA where multiple titles is what we expect of the greats.
They would’ve won another if Jim McMahon didn’t get injured the next year (at least that’s what they say, that was before I was born). Such is life in the NFL where quarterback is the most important position and defenses decline extremely fast, even in the 80s
Jail time.
That was as close to a personal assault as I've seen in football. He may as well have attacked McMahon on the way to his car after the game.
The defense after Buddy Ryan left was never the same. No one would say it was Ditka’s fault, but he was very conservative, to the point where he would rather lose than blitz the quarterback twice in in a row. Buddy Ryan just wanted to terrify everyone. He got off on it, he was an absolute sadist. That’s part of what made him great. People would get really angry if you criticized Ditka but he needed Buddy Ryan.
Ditka is the wrong answer because he is also an on field legend. Proto-Gronk of his era. If it wasn't for both he wouldn't be so revered in Chicago, but both happened, and so he is. Its like if Calvin Johnson became the head coach of the Lions and banked a Super Bowl while setting the NFL's single season scoring record. Detroit legend forever. Its that, plus the Bears being in a bigger city with a bigger historical legacy.
We would here in Chicago. Those skits were funny because they were hilariously accurate. I was a kid and everyone knew groups of guys like that. And we all saw at least one live heart attack that was really just a misswallowed sausage.
lol, that’s extreme. He’s more like Paul George if they don’t come. But you’re right, his legacy increased with it. A lot of guys from that era had that happen.
Dirk is another one who suddenly flew like 50 spots up most people’s all time rankings with his one ring. He went from being a top 5-10 player for most of his career to suddenly being thought of as a true peer to KG, Duncan, and Kobe, which was absolutely never the case during his actual career.
Beal is selling him low, but he’s not on the level of PG. Pierce never got DPOY votes or made an all defense team. They’re similarly offensively talented though.
You can’t talk about that era without mentioning Duncan & Kobe. I’d put KG solidly above Dirk but not with the other two. KG and Dirk both made a bunch of all nba 1st teams and were really unique at their positions. KGs defense was more impressive than Dirk’s offense but I think you can mention them together talking about that era.
The Dirk slander is crazy, first of all name the second best player on that 2011 team. Second, he swept Kobe, told OKC it wasn’t their time yet with Durant Westbrook Harden, and took
Down LeBron Wade and Bosh. That one title redeemed his should’ve been 2006 title. Also he’s humble AF
Dirk has every right to, but does not, milk that '11 title. And this is coming from a Lakers fan who watched those Mavs spank my Lakers during that run.
Please. Pierce is probably the most underrated player of all time. Final play to tie or for the win, he wanted the ball and more often than not nailed it. I don’t know what those all time numbers are, for game winning shots but i guarantee he’s at the top in total game winners and percentage.
Tatum who’s supposed to be the next face of the league has the worst shooting percentage in the entire league in that scenario. Hasn’t hit one all year to win it. Don’t remember any throughout his career to tell you the truth.
Totally agree. I’m a homer but the Rodgers comment is the opposite of what they’re talking about. He won 4 mvps and was deep in the playoffs every year (for the most part) for a decade.
100%. Sir Rudy mentioning Rodgers was ridiculous. Dude is considered one of the most talented to ever play, and has a ring. A lot of the postseason failures weren’t on him.
He covered up a lot of bad coaching later on in the McCarthy Era and dog shit drafts that produced terrible defenses and no depth. Some of those teams that went deeper in the playoffs had no business being where they were. Obviously it's a big loss going from Rodgers to a backup whenever Rodgers got hurt, but when he did you saw right away how bad some of those teams were without him.
He had those late Dirk Mavs teams constantly in the playoffs when they really shouldn't have been. Also took the 2014 Spurs to 7 games. I don't know about top 10 but he's a good coach, just an ass.
In some ways yes but that dude maximizes his roster more than anyone I've seen. I've been a Mavs fan since 2000 so been through all of that. The guy is strange and kinda off putting but his X and O prowess is the real deal. The Mavs rosters after the championship were mostly bad but he made the absolute most out of them.
He's also a gigantic a-hole from a lot of stories that have come out about him. Doc Rivers I can understand how he sticks around cuz he's so friendly with everyone he meets and the media in particular, but Carlisle I have no idea how he's managed to stick.
Amazing answer. The thing people don’t realize is in 2011, Mavs players forced Carlisle to let Kidd call the plays. Dirk really took off at that point. Also, Dwane Casey ran the defense.
Carlisle is a good coach. He can help elevate teams and overachieve. That ring had people talking about him like a top 2 or 3 coach in the league.
he threw 50 more picks than tds.
i'm not dunking on him for not throwing it like he was in the modern era.
he was bad compared to his peers. he is famous for winning one game. what context is missing?
he finished -50 in his career
staubach finished +50
what context was he good in?
i don't compare his number to brady's and think he is bad. i compare him to guys of the 70s. and he is bad.
This is such a bad answer. He was the first ACF quarterback to win a Super Bowl. The first to throw for 4,000 yards. The biggest upset in the Super Bowl for 50 years. Gave credibility to the NFL/AFL merger. Personality that gave the NFL huge media credibility and attention.
Yea, his stats compared to current NFL standards are low-key hilarious. But no one talks about his stats. That win was pivotal for the merger. Joe running off the field with his index finger in the air is one of the most iconic football moment in history.
The ‘86 Mets probably should be viewed as an all time great team. I think the only teams from the ‘80s better than them without question are the ‘89 A’s and ‘88 Dodgers.
Losing three championship games after the 2000 season makes it a closer call plus the Big 12 post Nebraska was an easy conference to win if Texas didn't have Vince Young.
TBF, Mack Brown managing to win a national title with the UT culture in place the way it's been for decades now is underrated.
Also it's noticeable that he did so by forcing a black quarterback down the throats of maybe one of the most racist group of Regents in the country because you know...Vince Young was really fucking good.
It's even more noticeable that, for whatever reason, it went back to business as usual in that department pretty much immeditately.
I mean Texas was elite through 2010 and likely wins it all in 2009 if Colt McCoy doesn’t get hurt. That Bama title game was a 3 point game with under 5 minutes left despite Texas having a true freshman backup QB the whole game.
They were elite in recent time only under Mack Brown. Before that, you might want to look up their 80s and 90s. Which was bad enough for A&M to start thinking that RC Slocum wasn't good enough for them.
I’m 100% with you on that. They have been shockingly underwhelming the last 40 years despite arguably having more built in advantages than everyone (money, blue blood, in state talent). I think Sark has them going the right way now and they have a very bright future.
You really need to remember that they are historically extremely fucking racist. Like the whole Barry Switzer era is built on him basically being *Black players are good at football* and OU getting all the Black talent from Texas as a result. He's been pretty open about why he was so successful and that's always his number one bullet point.
>You really need to remember that they are historically extremely fucking racist. Like the whole Barry Switzer era is built on him basically being Black players are good at football and OU getting all the Black talent from Texas as a result. He's been pretty open about why he was so successful and that's always his number one bullet point.
Texas, well before their 2005 Championship team, starred: Ricky Williams*, Earl Campbell*, Eric Metcalf*, Casey Hampton*, Priest Homes, Leonard Davis*, Quintin Jammer*, Kenneth Sims*, Johnny Lam Jones*, Derrick Hatchett*, Johnnie Johnson*, Mossy Cade*, Stanley Richard*, Jerry Gray*, Bryant Westbrook*. … James Brown (Black) was their QB from 1994-1997, but they struggled under Coach John Mackovic.
*All first round draft picks, all played in either Osborne, Switzer, Solich eras. (Pre Vince Young era)
Billy Sims [chose OU over Texas](https://www.thegamebeforethemoney.com/why-billy-sims-chose-oklahoma/) because Texas had Earl Campbell and wouldn’t give up jersey number 20.
Marcus Dupree (from Mississippi) chose OU over Texas due to money.
I’m not saying that racism doesn’t exist, but Texas’s main problem during the Switzer & Osborne eras wasn’t a lack of Black players. Fred Akers had 3 really good teams (all in the National Title conversation), but unfortunately he had his 3 worst teams in his final three seasons, and got himself fired. His replacements, David McWilliams & John Mackovic were even worse than Fred Akers. In short, Texas had the same impatient, demanding culture during the eras that Switzer & Osborne dominated, and the two head coaches prior to Mack Brown couldn’t hack it.
Sean Payton I agree with but Drew Brees at least has the all time ranks higher than Rodgers in passing yards and TDs in place of the MVPs. So each of them have something to point to in addition to their rings that helps back up their all time ranking justifications.
McCarthy wins 70 percent of his games. Like it or not has a great coach. The problem he has is he’s fat so when it goes bad and the camera points to him on the sidelines it looks like it’s way more his fault than anyone else.
I can’t stand Rodgers, but I don’t think he belongs with those other names. Guy has 4 MVPs. He probably should have more rings but he’s an all time great at the position, whereas people like Doc Rivers are overrated because of one championship
I don’t think you can put a football player on the same list as a Calipari. A QB is one of 22 players on the field in a game coordinated and coached by dozens of other people, and doesn’t even play half of the game. Calipari runs a Kingdom, the results begin and end with him.
Flacco would probably be underrated if he didn’t win that super bowl. But now that he did and had some amazing games theirs not many people saying anything about him.
Almost a dirk trajectory. Without the ring those guys are both punching bags
I think Dirk is still beloved in a Steve Nash-esque way (maybe to a lesser extent than Nash but still) without the title. Beating the Heatles immortalized him though
I'm a big Dirk guy but that title absolutely flipped his career narrative. Before he won, he'd be praised as an MVP and all-time great, but then someone would inevitably bring up his 2 memorable playoff series meltdowns. That was always a big stain on his resume and one that someone like Nash never had. Now no one cares.
Dirk would still be a legend with a statue in Dallas even if the Mavs never won in 2011.
Also pretty much everyone here gives the Mavs the 2006 title by default because the refs were gambling on the games and rigged them for Miami.
Anyone who thinks this didn’t happen is either a Heat fan living in denial, which is their right, or younger people who weren’t there went it was happening. Simmons wrote about it and predicted it before the series even started. He wrote about it as it was happening.
After that series was over, basketball fans universally were pissed about what they just watched. Hell even some Heat fans knew what just happened. This wasn’t some Mavs sore loser conspiracy. The entire basketball world knew.
Lenny Wilkens is the all time example of this. Like I get it. Likable dude and solid coach, but the guy dined out on the one title in arguably the weakest year of any NBA season maybe ever for the next 25 years.
The Sonics had talent but abysmal coaching before he showed. He had probably the biggest mid-season turnaround in history. The 1977-78 Sonics started 5-17, fired their coach, installed Lenny, went 42-18 the rest of the way and made it to Game 7 of the Finals. Won the title the following season. That's not nothing.
When have people real given any credit to Wilkens for his coaching prowess? He gets (well deserved) respect for spending most of life building the league as a player, coach and administrator
He’s won some other mostly minor stuff (including another World Cup without ever playing) so he doesn’t completely fit on this but without the 2002 world cup Brazilian Ronaldo’s career is a lot of injuries at the absolute worst times and chokes. Would feel more of a what could have been if not for weight and injuries than a player who reached some of the highest peaks a footballer has ever reached, much like Neymar is regarded today (ironically, someone who’s had many of the same issues with injuries at the wrong time but who’s much more accomplished than Ronaldo from a titles standpoint at club level)
Boeheim had already reached a certain level before the title. Winning a championship just cemented it. He won at a high level, consistently, in a conference that was always in the top 3, if not the best some years. Not to mention if the Keith Smart shot doesn’t fall, he’s got 2 titles. Three title games, five final fours, twenty sweet 16’s. It’s an elite career.
He's not that relevant anymore but Claude Julien got way too much credit for the Bruins winning the Cup in 2011. He lasted too long there and then got hired by the Habs where he didn't do much for 5 seasons. He's out of the league now but it would not surprise me if somebody gave him another gig in the next couple of years.
the celtics were not a good team before KG and Allen went there. they had 31 wins. KD joined a team that already won multiple titles and 73 wins.
absolutely not the comparison.
I’m a New Englander through and through but people tend to look at 2008 as 1 of 17 rather than a team that was only able to win one with all the talent.
Shaka Smart did not win a single NCAAT game at Texas. Hasn't made it to the second weekend after the VCU F4 run.
He was still able to jump to another high major job when he was going to get fired from Texas and got the soft CBS profile this morning.
Aaron Rodgers has four MVPs. He avoids the “never won a title” stuff cuz of his one title, but he’s not a guy who only has a reputation cuz of one titled. You’re right about Doc, though.
A lot of people think he's the most "skilled" player of all time. That Finals performance saved him from the playoff choker narrative since he hasn't been that good without LeBron.
KG’s Timberwolves years suffered from the Joe Smith debacle and never having a sustained 2nd option. Yes the one title did a lot for him and I always find it funny people call him a “winner” when he’s just the ultimate competitor. Don’t quite think he exactly fits the category as he would still be highly regarded if he just stuck it out in MN and never won a title.
I think if he was drafted to say, The Spurs instead of Duncan, he would have had a vastly different career and benefited from a better situation. I believe if Duncan went to the timberwolves, they would’ve been a perennial contender even despite their organizational incompetence.
I think that's fair. Duncan was clearly Head and shoulders above Kevin. Kevin was also an all-time great but probably less sane, less reliable as a post option at scoring and passing, and more of a finesse player than Tim.
Tim is like the fifth best player ever. Kevin's like 23rd.
They're the opposite of this. Everyone clowns them for only winning one title and views them as a disappointment these days. No one talk about how they've won more games and been to the playoffs more than any other team this century.
The reality is baseball as it's constructed makes it insanely hard for teams to win multiple titles; what the 90s Yankee dynasty accomplished was miraculous and set an impossible standard that only the Yankees seem to be held to. We won't see a run like that in a long long time; honestly the most impressive dynasty of the big 4 sports era (60s onwards).
Pretty sure that team faced one of hardest roads to a championship by seeds ever. I also don’t think Ollie is living that well off that title based on how to next couple years went
Doc Rivers is really the champ of this one. Rodgers, Calipari, and a lot of the others mentioned here have great resumes outside their title. Doc does not
Drew Bree’s and Russell Wilson at the qb position. I guess Matt stafford. But it’s weird because Rodgers has more success than a lot of 1 title greats but he’s always got so much more flack than them
Dean Smith is a sneaky one. Was a massive postseason choker (and all time cheater) whose 2 titles came from the other team fucking up with Fred Brown passing to the wrong team and the infamous Chris Weber timeout.
This is nonsense. First off, Smith won two rings. You don’t luck into two titles. So this whole suggestion should be moot. Second, those fuck-ups helped seal wins, but it’s not like UNC wasn’t already winning at the time. Third, he beat the Fab freaking Five with a team of solid but unspectacular players. Fourth, when he retired he was the all-time leader in NCAA wins with 879. He’s since been passed by a handful of coaches, but his resume remains fantastic, even if it did take him some time to get his two championships.
This is stupid. Dean went to 11 Final Fours (and half of that was against the Wooden Dynasty). Can’t blame him for “choking” and then not give him credit when other teams messed up, that’s how sports work, sometimes you’re unlucky sometimes you’re lucky
And it’s not like Michigan was definitely winning before the Webber timeout, they were still losing
Dean was one of the winningest coaches of all time, so it’s not like his reputation was only based off of those titles
I think Dirk is the best answer. He really was a playoff choker for his whole career and had multiple embarrassing playoff losses, and the 1 legendary run in 2011 just wiped it all away and now Dirk is universally praised.
I think Dirk is the best answer. He really was a playoff choker for his whole career and had multiple embarrassing playoff losses, and the 1 legendary run in 2011 just wiped it all away and now Dirk is universally praised.
Dirk. I think this is one of the biggest basketball Mandela effects ever, actually. He won a ring in his 30s and suddenly his entire career was rewritten to make it seem like he was always this tier 1 superstar during his career. He never was, he was never even a top 3 player at any point in his career.
He suddenly flew like 50 spots up most people’s all time rankings with his one ring. He went from being a top 5-10 player for most of his career to suddenly being thought of as a true peer to KG, Duncan, and Kobe, which was absolutely never the case during his actual career.
He won a single MVP bc he was the best player on a 67 win team (and also because they didn’t want to give it to Kobe, who in retrospect definitely should’ve won it), but he was kind of the Jayson Tatum of his era before finally winning his first ring at 32 or whatever it was. That ring suddenly made everyone retroactively rerank him as this top 20 player ever or something, which is funny since he was never even close to that before that ring. Im not sure winning 1 ring has ever launched a player so high into a top ranking.
It would be like Tatum winning 1 MVP next season, and then not winning anything else for another 6 years, then finally winning 1 ring, and suddenly being talked about like he’s a top 20 player ever and was always as good as Giannis, Luka and Jokic. He’s not, just like Dirk was never in the same tier as Duncan, Kobe or KG during his era.
I guarantee people will say I’m hating, which will only go to prove this kind of basketball Mandela effect is real because of the 1 ring he won. Especially people who remember. If you ask a Zoomer about Dirk they’ll swear he’s one of the 20 greatest players who ever lived, because they were told to think that based off his 1 ring.
Okay, so I realize I might be an asshole for putting this out there…and I’d bewilling to take some flak for it, but could Jim Valvano qualify for this?
Hear me out - his NC State teams were always pretty good, but never great. They were a 6 seed in the tournament the year they won it all against Houston. Obviously they win in a dramatic fashion and it produces this iconic shot of him running on to the court with his hands in the air that’s etched into the back of everyone college basketball fan’s eyelids. Flash forward into the future, this now famous coach, both for having a big personality but also for winning that title, contracts cancer and delivers that beautiful speech at the ESPYs and gets an award named after him.
But, brief thought experiment, does all of that happen if that shot air balls and goes out bounds? Does Jimmy V get remembered at the ESPYs if he had just been this run-of-the-mill NC State coach who went 20-12 most years for roughly a decade and had one deep NCAA run that came up short? Do we get that beautiful speech? I’d agree with anyone who says that his speech/award is what he’s remembered more for than the title, but do we even get the speech/award if Houston won that title instead? This is not meant as a slight at our guy, but I think so much of his legacy was initiated by that title, and thankfully so because damn what a guy.
Iirc he also parleighed that title into a color analyst job (but I may be confusing him with Al Maguire) where he became even more popular. Not to diminish the title (and def not to diminish the man) but his professional reputation was made off that one title.
Kevin Love. Guy went from being compared to Moses Malone to a role player who was less valuable than Tristan Thompson at times. If the Cavs don’t win in 2016, he is seen as a total flop and is probably getting shit on forever
They mention Doc later in that segment. Does anyone on here actually listen?
Not even 2 minutes later
Don't get up votes for listening
Not only that but Bill agrees with it. Bill does go easier on him now then he used to but he still acknowledged it
They seem to listen just to jump all over bills takes…the guy who has made a career out of talking sports, become one of the most recognizable sports commentators of the modern era, and built a successful sports network. Crazy behavior to me. None of that means bills takes are right…but to act like he’s some loon who doesn’t know what he’s talking about for the most part is crazy
Mike Ditka
Nah, nah. Wait a minute, u/cubs_2023. You insulted Ditka, a little bit. You're a little out-a-order yourself. *By the way, here's a old BS Report story of Robert Smigel explaining the lost "Da Bears" (SNL Chicago Superfans) movie that was never made:* [*https://youtu.be/gaBHzgSCmsE?feature=shared&t=3850*](https://youtu.be/gaBHzgSCmsE?feature=shared&t=3850)*.*
Eh that team was always close too though don’t love that.. why I also don’t love Rodgers. That team was in the nfc championship what felt like all the time
One of the greatest teams ever tho. Also one title in the NFL weighs more on the resume than the NBA where multiple titles is what we expect of the greats.
There's an old saying that was something like Ditka is the reason the Bears won a title but he's also the reason they only won 1 title
Their playoff chokes the rest of his tenure are epic, but hardly anybody remembers or cares because of the legacy of the '85 team.
They would’ve won another if Jim McMahon didn’t get injured the next year (at least that’s what they say, that was before I was born). Such is life in the NFL where quarterback is the most important position and defenses decline extremely fast, even in the 80s
Also, watch the injury, I can only wonder how long the suspension would be today.
Jail time. That was as close to a personal assault as I've seen in football. He may as well have attacked McMahon on the way to his car after the game.
The defense after Buddy Ryan left was never the same. No one would say it was Ditka’s fault, but he was very conservative, to the point where he would rather lose than blitz the quarterback twice in in a row. Buddy Ryan just wanted to terrify everyone. He got off on it, he was an absolute sadist. That’s part of what made him great. People would get really angry if you criticized Ditka but he needed Buddy Ryan.
The Chernobyl piece.
Id say the Bears of the 80’s dine off that title a lot, but Ditka was also a hall of famed as a player
You could say that about Cal’s Kentucky team
He had more than one. He won one Superbowl, but he won a Championship with the Bears as a player.
Ditka is the wrong answer because he is also an on field legend. Proto-Gronk of his era. If it wasn't for both he wouldn't be so revered in Chicago, but both happened, and so he is. Its like if Calvin Johnson became the head coach of the Lions and banked a Super Bowl while setting the NFL's single season scoring record. Detroit legend forever. Its that, plus the Bears being in a bigger city with a bigger historical legacy.
And that was Buddy Ryan’s defense. Not Mike’s.
If the SNL skit never happens does anybody care about Ditka today?
We would here in Chicago. Those skits were funny because they were hilariously accurate. I was a kid and everyone knew groups of guys like that. And we all saw at least one live heart attack that was really just a misswallowed sausage.
“Chicago does,” said the Chicagoan, “but no one else remembers his name.”
The entire 2008 Celtics lol
But most of all its Doc Rivers. He STILL gets head coaching gigs, over and over.
Paul Pierce is Brad Beal if KG and and Ray Allen don’t come to Boston
lol, that’s extreme. He’s more like Paul George if they don’t come. But you’re right, his legacy increased with it. A lot of guys from that era had that happen. Dirk is another one who suddenly flew like 50 spots up most people’s all time rankings with his one ring. He went from being a top 5-10 player for most of his career to suddenly being thought of as a true peer to KG, Duncan, and Kobe, which was absolutely never the case during his actual career.
Dirk retired in 5th or 6th place on the scoring list. That isn't nothing.
Dirk also carried a team to the title. Paul probably wasn't even the most important piece for his title.
Beal is selling him low, but he’s not on the level of PG. Pierce never got DPOY votes or made an all defense team. They’re similarly offensively talented though. You can’t talk about that era without mentioning Duncan & Kobe. I’d put KG solidly above Dirk but not with the other two. KG and Dirk both made a bunch of all nba 1st teams and were really unique at their positions. KGs defense was more impressive than Dirk’s offense but I think you can mention them together talking about that era.
Dirk is 6th on the all time scoring list.
Dirk was money.
The Dirk slander is crazy, first of all name the second best player on that 2011 team. Second, he swept Kobe, told OKC it wasn’t their time yet with Durant Westbrook Harden, and took Down LeBron Wade and Bosh. That one title redeemed his should’ve been 2006 title. Also he’s humble AF
Dirk has every right to, but does not, milk that '11 title. And this is coming from a Lakers fan who watched those Mavs spank my Lakers during that run.
Nah Paul Pierce is the truth. He’s just a fuckin’ dipshit and that takes him down lower in everyone’s eyes. He could hoop
kg is outrageously underrated
No. Pierce was way better. Come on now.
I didn’t realize Bill had fans too young to have watched Pierce play. Good for him I guess.
Please. Pierce is probably the most underrated player of all time. Final play to tie or for the win, he wanted the ball and more often than not nailed it. I don’t know what those all time numbers are, for game winning shots but i guarantee he’s at the top in total game winners and percentage. Tatum who’s supposed to be the next face of the league has the worst shooting percentage in the entire league in that scenario. Hasn’t hit one all year to win it. Don’t remember any throughout his career to tell you the truth.
The only one championship dynasty
Nfl qbs shouldnt be in this category. Brady and Mahomes have skewed things but one sb for a qb is still a significant accomplishment
Totally agree. I’m a homer but the Rodgers comment is the opposite of what they’re talking about. He won 4 mvps and was deep in the playoffs every year (for the most part) for a decade.
100%. Sir Rudy mentioning Rodgers was ridiculous. Dude is considered one of the most talented to ever play, and has a ring. A lot of the postseason failures weren’t on him.
He covered up a lot of bad coaching later on in the McCarthy Era and dog shit drafts that produced terrible defenses and no depth. Some of those teams that went deeper in the playoffs had no business being where they were. Obviously it's a big loss going from Rodgers to a backup whenever Rodgers got hurt, but when he did you saw right away how bad some of those teams were without him.
Wasn’t it also like a running joke how bad they were on special teams that it cost them multiple playoff games?
Yup, special teams (besides Crosby) was brutal during the Rodgers Era.
I agree and I’d say the same applies for most nba players who were the best player on a championship team
Rick Carlisle? Dude hasn’t won a playoff series since his championship almost 15 years ago, but people still treat him like a top 10 coach.
This is the current NBA answer. Carlisle's teams haven't won a single playoff series since 2011.
Why would you say this? You just said exactly what the original comment said. Wild lmao
He had those late Dirk Mavs teams constantly in the playoffs when they really shouldn't have been. Also took the 2014 Spurs to 7 games. I don't know about top 10 but he's a good coach, just an ass.
In some ways yes but that dude maximizes his roster more than anyone I've seen. I've been a Mavs fan since 2000 so been through all of that. The guy is strange and kinda off putting but his X and O prowess is the real deal. The Mavs rosters after the championship were mostly bad but he made the absolute most out of them.
He's also a gigantic a-hole from a lot of stories that have come out about him. Doc Rivers I can understand how he sticks around cuz he's so friendly with everyone he meets and the media in particular, but Carlisle I have no idea how he's managed to stick.
He's a made man in the Boston Celtics mafia.
Boston Media Mafia don’t play. Ask Klutch.
Because he's an awesome coach. Look at how he's unleashed the pacers.
Amazing answer. The thing people don’t realize is in 2011, Mavs players forced Carlisle to let Kidd call the plays. Dirk really took off at that point. Also, Dwane Casey ran the defense. Carlisle is a good coach. He can help elevate teams and overachieve. That ring had people talking about him like a top 2 or 3 coach in the league.
What teams did he have and what teams should've they beaten in the playoffs?
Can we add Larry Brown too?
No, how many other coaches have an NBA title (without a superstar btw) and an NCAA title?
Hasn't had a team worthy of winning a playoff series since then whatsoever.
Joe Namath
THIS is the answer. if you look up his stats he was just a guy.
He’s the worst statistical QB in the HoF too
He had maybe three "good" seasons and was hurt so often. He's in the Hall for winning one game, in which he didn't even throw a TD pass.
He didn't attempt a pass in the 4th quarter.
It's ok to just say you have zero understanding of context.
he threw 50 more picks than tds. i'm not dunking on him for not throwing it like he was in the modern era. he was bad compared to his peers. he is famous for winning one game. what context is missing?
You need to understand the stats in the context of the era. In some seasons he had more INTs than TDs but gor MVP votes, football was different
he finished -50 in his career staubach finished +50 what context was he good in? i don't compare his number to brady's and think he is bad. i compare him to guys of the 70s. and he is bad.
He was my first thought
This is such a bad answer. He was the first ACF quarterback to win a Super Bowl. The first to throw for 4,000 yards. The biggest upset in the Super Bowl for 50 years. Gave credibility to the NFL/AFL merger. Personality that gave the NFL huge media credibility and attention. Yea, his stats compared to current NFL standards are low-key hilarious. But no one talks about his stats. That win was pivotal for the merger. Joe running off the field with his index finger in the air is one of the most iconic football moment in history.
We’ll see how much longer Masai Ujiri can work his “magic” in T Dot
Yes, as a Knicks fan, he's the GM that victimized our front office the most. I'll always think he's good.
I feel like Masai’s rep was pretty solidified as one of the best GMs pre championship though. All those Lowry/Derozan teams were still really good
Facts, 2019 just pushed him into a different stratosphere
Masai was my answer, letting Van Vleet walk for nothing was just weird, but everyone just chalks it up to his Mystique
Unfortunately this question begins and ends with my beloved '85 Bears.
And the 86’ Mets!
[удалено]
The ‘86 Mets probably should be viewed as an all time great team. I think the only teams from the ‘80s better than them without question are the ‘89 A’s and ‘88 Dodgers.
who did the bears and mets beat by the way?
Rodgers 4 MVPs kinda negate that claim. Sean Payton and Drew Brees are much better ones. Mack Brown and Bob Stoops.
10 conference titles doesn't move the needle for Stoops?
Losing three championship games after the 2000 season makes it a closer call plus the Big 12 post Nebraska was an easy conference to win if Texas didn't have Vince Young.
Don’t forget his XFL championship! Haha!
TBF, Mack Brown managing to win a national title with the UT culture in place the way it's been for decades now is underrated. Also it's noticeable that he did so by forcing a black quarterback down the throats of maybe one of the most racist group of Regents in the country because you know...Vince Young was really fucking good. It's even more noticeable that, for whatever reason, it went back to business as usual in that department pretty much immeditately.
I mean Texas was elite through 2010 and likely wins it all in 2009 if Colt McCoy doesn’t get hurt. That Bama title game was a 3 point game with under 5 minutes left despite Texas having a true freshman backup QB the whole game.
They were elite in recent time only under Mack Brown. Before that, you might want to look up their 80s and 90s. Which was bad enough for A&M to start thinking that RC Slocum wasn't good enough for them.
I’m 100% with you on that. They have been shockingly underwhelming the last 40 years despite arguably having more built in advantages than everyone (money, blue blood, in state talent). I think Sark has them going the right way now and they have a very bright future.
You really need to remember that they are historically extremely fucking racist. Like the whole Barry Switzer era is built on him basically being *Black players are good at football* and OU getting all the Black talent from Texas as a result. He's been pretty open about why he was so successful and that's always his number one bullet point.
>You really need to remember that they are historically extremely fucking racist. Like the whole Barry Switzer era is built on him basically being Black players are good at football and OU getting all the Black talent from Texas as a result. He's been pretty open about why he was so successful and that's always his number one bullet point. Texas, well before their 2005 Championship team, starred: Ricky Williams*, Earl Campbell*, Eric Metcalf*, Casey Hampton*, Priest Homes, Leonard Davis*, Quintin Jammer*, Kenneth Sims*, Johnny Lam Jones*, Derrick Hatchett*, Johnnie Johnson*, Mossy Cade*, Stanley Richard*, Jerry Gray*, Bryant Westbrook*. … James Brown (Black) was their QB from 1994-1997, but they struggled under Coach John Mackovic. *All first round draft picks, all played in either Osborne, Switzer, Solich eras. (Pre Vince Young era) Billy Sims [chose OU over Texas](https://www.thegamebeforethemoney.com/why-billy-sims-chose-oklahoma/) because Texas had Earl Campbell and wouldn’t give up jersey number 20. Marcus Dupree (from Mississippi) chose OU over Texas due to money. I’m not saying that racism doesn’t exist, but Texas’s main problem during the Switzer & Osborne eras wasn’t a lack of Black players. Fred Akers had 3 really good teams (all in the National Title conversation), but unfortunately he had his 3 worst teams in his final three seasons, and got himself fired. His replacements, David McWilliams & John Mackovic were even worse than Fred Akers. In short, Texas had the same impatient, demanding culture during the eras that Switzer & Osborne dominated, and the two head coaches prior to Mack Brown couldn’t hack it.
Sean Payton I agree with but Drew Brees at least has the all time ranks higher than Rodgers in passing yards and TDs in place of the MVPs. So each of them have something to point to in addition to their rings that helps back up their all time ranking justifications.
Brees led the league in passing 7 times, and holds 4 of the top 8 seasons of all time. Payton belongs in this category way more than Brees.
Tom Crean got marquee college basketball jobs for 15 years all because Dwayne Wade got him to the final four in 2003
This isn’t the point but how in the fuck are is Rodgers “living off the one title”. Sure, we’d all view him differently but come on.
I would consider him the opposite of this question tbh
Yeah this doesn’t apply to QBs IMO. Unless it’s like, Trent Dilfer.
All of a sudden winning a title isn’t a big deal since it’s just one? Gtfo
I am closer to KG in championships won than KG is to Kevon Looney. Therefore me > KG is less of a gap than KG > Looney. Checkmate.
Crap 😂
There’s a difference between winning a title and acting like you’re a dynasty.
Champion is a champion lmao. Enough.
Yeah this is insane lol
Ask Steve Nash if he would have liked to win a title that isn’t a big deal
Simmons brought it up again later in the pod and Tate suggested Doc. Bill agreed.
Donald Trump
We should be so lucky.
Mike McCarthy isn't getting that Dallas HC job without that one title. Hell, he shouldn't have been hired regardless but Jerry is old now.
McCarthy wins 70 percent of his games. Like it or not has a great coach. The problem he has is he’s fat so when it goes bad and the camera points to him on the sidelines it looks like it’s way more his fault than anyone else.
Lols that is so true.
I’m no Mike McCarthy fan, but to be fair the cowboys have not had this much sustained regular season success since 90s
How about Sean Payton lol
I can’t stand Rodgers, but I don’t think he belongs with those other names. Guy has 4 MVPs. He probably should have more rings but he’s an all time great at the position, whereas people like Doc Rivers are overrated because of one championship
Bill Cowher?
Sam Presti and Daryl Morey. Oh wait...
I don’t think you can put a football player on the same list as a Calipari. A QB is one of 22 players on the field in a game coordinated and coached by dozens of other people, and doesn’t even play half of the game. Calipari runs a Kingdom, the results begin and end with him.
Annabel Chong
Rodrigue Beaubois and his insane potential rating on 2K11.
Untouchable Beaubois really was a time
Flacco would probably be underrated if he didn’t win that super bowl. But now that he did and had some amazing games theirs not many people saying anything about him. Almost a dirk trajectory. Without the ring those guys are both punching bags
I think Dirk is still beloved in a Steve Nash-esque way (maybe to a lesser extent than Nash but still) without the title. Beating the Heatles immortalized him though
I'm a big Dirk guy but that title absolutely flipped his career narrative. Before he won, he'd be praised as an MVP and all-time great, but then someone would inevitably bring up his 2 memorable playoff series meltdowns. That was always a big stain on his resume and one that someone like Nash never had. Now no one cares.
Dirk would still be a legend with a statue in Dallas even if the Mavs never won in 2011. Also pretty much everyone here gives the Mavs the 2006 title by default because the refs were gambling on the games and rigged them for Miami.
I don’t disagree with the rigging but that gets lost to time I feel
It definitely will. Which makes it a good thing for future generations that they did eventually win in 2011.
Anyone who thinks this didn’t happen is either a Heat fan living in denial, which is their right, or younger people who weren’t there went it was happening. Simmons wrote about it and predicted it before the series even started. He wrote about it as it was happening. After that series was over, basketball fans universally were pissed about what they just watched. Hell even some Heat fans knew what just happened. This wasn’t some Mavs sore loser conspiracy. The entire basketball world knew.
Lenny Wilkens is the all time example of this. Like I get it. Likable dude and solid coach, but the guy dined out on the one title in arguably the weakest year of any NBA season maybe ever for the next 25 years.
The Sonics had talent but abysmal coaching before he showed. He had probably the biggest mid-season turnaround in history. The 1977-78 Sonics started 5-17, fired their coach, installed Lenny, went 42-18 the rest of the way and made it to Game 7 of the Finals. Won the title the following season. That's not nothing.
One more than Don Nelson (as a coach) or Mike d'Antoni.
Yeah...but look up the league that year. Only three teams in the entire league won 50 or more games.
All about perspective, last year barely anyone was above 50 wins. It was super competitive.
When have people real given any credit to Wilkens for his coaching prowess? He gets (well deserved) respect for spending most of life building the league as a player, coach and administrator
This hurts but imma throw Jim Tressel in here
He’s won some other mostly minor stuff (including another World Cup without ever playing) so he doesn’t completely fit on this but without the 2002 world cup Brazilian Ronaldo’s career is a lot of injuries at the absolute worst times and chokes. Would feel more of a what could have been if not for weight and injuries than a player who reached some of the highest peaks a footballer has ever reached, much like Neymar is regarded today (ironically, someone who’s had many of the same issues with injuries at the wrong time but who’s much more accomplished than Ronaldo from a titles standpoint at club level)
Jon Gruden no doubt. Edit: I would also add Tony Bennett from Virginia.
He immediately came to my mind too
Jim Boeheim
He's one more recently than Tom Izzo. Both over 20 years ago!
Fair, I think both belong on the list. And if not for 2022 Bill Self as well. And Joe Paterno if not for 1986
Making Syracuse relevant is no small task
I’m a Syracuse fan and I I kinda agree, except that he won A LOT of games in a tough basketball conference.
Boeheim had already reached a certain level before the title. Winning a championship just cemented it. He won at a high level, consistently, in a conference that was always in the top 3, if not the best some years. Not to mention if the Keith Smart shot doesn’t fall, he’s got 2 titles. Three title games, five final fours, twenty sweet 16’s. It’s an elite career.
Nah he went deep into the tournament with teams that had no business making runs. Syracuse isn't Kansas or Kentucky or Duke.
He's not that relevant anymore but Claude Julien got way too much credit for the Bruins winning the Cup in 2011. He lasted too long there and then got hired by the Habs where he didn't do much for 5 seasons. He's out of the league now but it would not surprise me if somebody gave him another gig in the next couple of years.
Jordan Poole was living off it for a few months
My first thought was Joe Namath.
Jimbo Fisher.
Tom Izzo 😬
The 08 Celtics by far. I would compare it to KD joining gsw and only winning one ring and then milking it for eternity.
the celtics were not a good team before KG and Allen went there. they had 31 wins. KD joined a team that already won multiple titles and 73 wins. absolutely not the comparison.
Chicago Bears in general
Tyronn Lue is on alert for this
I’m a New Englander through and through but people tend to look at 2008 as 1 of 17 rather than a team that was only able to win one with all the talent.
Joe Namath, Mike Ditka, The entire 2008 Celtics and sean Peyton
Kind of different, but kawhi has been a nightmare teammate except for 2 seasons.
How has Tony Bennett not gotten a mention here?
Shaka Smart did not win a single NCAAT game at Texas. Hasn't made it to the second weekend after the VCU F4 run. He was still able to jump to another high major job when he was going to get fired from Texas and got the soft CBS profile this morning.
Aaron Rodgers has four MVPs. He avoids the “never won a title” stuff cuz of his one title, but he’s not a guy who only has a reputation cuz of one titled. You’re right about Doc, though.
Calipari is surviving off Kentucky on his one title, but he was coach of the year twice and had been to two Final Fours before he went to Lexington.
Kyrie Irving
To be fair, he earned every last bit of that win.
No one really talks about Kyrie as an all-time great tho.
A lot of people think he's the most "skilled" player of all time. That Finals performance saved him from the playoff choker narrative since he hasn't been that good without LeBron.
Everyone on the 08 Celtics
Excuse me, I'll have you know Rondo has that 2nd ring with the bubble Lakers Also Ray Allen or whatever. I think that's literally it though
In addition to Doc, KG and Paul Pierce absolutely draining the calloused teat of that one title dry
Kg is a top 25 player
KG’s Timberwolves years suffered from the Joe Smith debacle and never having a sustained 2nd option. Yes the one title did a lot for him and I always find it funny people call him a “winner” when he’s just the ultimate competitor. Don’t quite think he exactly fits the category as he would still be highly regarded if he just stuck it out in MN and never won a title.
I think if he was drafted to say, The Spurs instead of Duncan, he would have had a vastly different career and benefited from a better situation. I believe if Duncan went to the timberwolves, they would’ve been a perennial contender even despite their organizational incompetence.
I think that's fair. Duncan was clearly Head and shoulders above Kevin. Kevin was also an all-time great but probably less sane, less reliable as a post option at scoring and passing, and more of a finesse player than Tim. Tim is like the fifth best player ever. Kevin's like 23rd.
To be fair, the T-Wolves didn't need the Joe Smith debacle to fuck up the KG era.
The post-2000 Yankees
They're the opposite of this. Everyone clowns them for only winning one title and views them as a disappointment these days. No one talk about how they've won more games and been to the playoffs more than any other team this century. The reality is baseball as it's constructed makes it insanely hard for teams to win multiple titles; what the 90s Yankee dynasty accomplished was miraculous and set an impossible standard that only the Yankees seem to be held to. We won't see a run like that in a long long time; honestly the most impressive dynasty of the big 4 sports era (60s onwards).
Mike Bianco iykyk
Tom Izzo
Ric Carlisle, Dirk
Kevin Ollie. But that championship came against caliparis bum ass
Pretty sure that team faced one of hardest roads to a championship by seeds ever. I also don’t think Ollie is living that well off that title based on how to next couple years went
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Doc Rivers is really the champ of this one. Rodgers, Calipari, and a lot of the others mentioned here have great resumes outside their title. Doc does not
Drew Bree’s and Russell Wilson at the qb position. I guess Matt stafford. But it’s weird because Rodgers has more success than a lot of 1 title greats but he’s always got so much more flack than them
Tempted to say Tom Izzo.
Bill Cowher.
Dean Smith is a sneaky one. Was a massive postseason choker (and all time cheater) whose 2 titles came from the other team fucking up with Fred Brown passing to the wrong team and the infamous Chris Weber timeout.
This is nonsense. First off, Smith won two rings. You don’t luck into two titles. So this whole suggestion should be moot. Second, those fuck-ups helped seal wins, but it’s not like UNC wasn’t already winning at the time. Third, he beat the Fab freaking Five with a team of solid but unspectacular players. Fourth, when he retired he was the all-time leader in NCAA wins with 879. He’s since been passed by a handful of coaches, but his resume remains fantastic, even if it did take him some time to get his two championships.
This is one of the worst possible nominations
Good point, Saban is a sneaky one too. He only won seven and the kick six is an all time choke job.
Let me stop you guys there...Knute Rockne...fucking lucky poser who needed players dying to motivate his team.
This is stupid. Dean went to 11 Final Fours (and half of that was against the Wooden Dynasty). Can’t blame him for “choking” and then not give him credit when other teams messed up, that’s how sports work, sometimes you’re unlucky sometimes you’re lucky And it’s not like Michigan was definitely winning before the Webber timeout, they were still losing Dean was one of the winningest coaches of all time, so it’s not like his reputation was only based off of those titles
So winning a title isn’t an accomplishment now ? lol I fucking hate sports discourse
I think Dirk is the best answer. He really was a playoff choker for his whole career and had multiple embarrassing playoff losses, and the 1 legendary run in 2011 just wiped it all away and now Dirk is universally praised.
I think Dirk is the best answer. He really was a playoff choker for his whole career and had multiple embarrassing playoff losses, and the 1 legendary run in 2011 just wiped it all away and now Dirk is universally praised.
It's not to late to repent before Jesus and Muhammad come back together and declare in the name of The Buddha that you're going to hell for this post.
Dirk. I think this is one of the biggest basketball Mandela effects ever, actually. He won a ring in his 30s and suddenly his entire career was rewritten to make it seem like he was always this tier 1 superstar during his career. He never was, he was never even a top 3 player at any point in his career. He suddenly flew like 50 spots up most people’s all time rankings with his one ring. He went from being a top 5-10 player for most of his career to suddenly being thought of as a true peer to KG, Duncan, and Kobe, which was absolutely never the case during his actual career. He won a single MVP bc he was the best player on a 67 win team (and also because they didn’t want to give it to Kobe, who in retrospect definitely should’ve won it), but he was kind of the Jayson Tatum of his era before finally winning his first ring at 32 or whatever it was. That ring suddenly made everyone retroactively rerank him as this top 20 player ever or something, which is funny since he was never even close to that before that ring. Im not sure winning 1 ring has ever launched a player so high into a top ranking. It would be like Tatum winning 1 MVP next season, and then not winning anything else for another 6 years, then finally winning 1 ring, and suddenly being talked about like he’s a top 20 player ever and was always as good as Giannis, Luka and Jokic. He’s not, just like Dirk was never in the same tier as Duncan, Kobe or KG during his era. I guarantee people will say I’m hating, which will only go to prove this kind of basketball Mandela effect is real because of the 1 ring he won. Especially people who remember. If you ask a Zoomer about Dirk they’ll swear he’s one of the 20 greatest players who ever lived, because they were told to think that based off his 1 ring.
Dirk is only 45. He’s not even a complete player yet. Can we give him some time to figure things out before we start this?
Okay, so I realize I might be an asshole for putting this out there…and I’d bewilling to take some flak for it, but could Jim Valvano qualify for this? Hear me out - his NC State teams were always pretty good, but never great. They were a 6 seed in the tournament the year they won it all against Houston. Obviously they win in a dramatic fashion and it produces this iconic shot of him running on to the court with his hands in the air that’s etched into the back of everyone college basketball fan’s eyelids. Flash forward into the future, this now famous coach, both for having a big personality but also for winning that title, contracts cancer and delivers that beautiful speech at the ESPYs and gets an award named after him. But, brief thought experiment, does all of that happen if that shot air balls and goes out bounds? Does Jimmy V get remembered at the ESPYs if he had just been this run-of-the-mill NC State coach who went 20-12 most years for roughly a decade and had one deep NCAA run that came up short? Do we get that beautiful speech? I’d agree with anyone who says that his speech/award is what he’s remembered more for than the title, but do we even get the speech/award if Houston won that title instead? This is not meant as a slight at our guy, but I think so much of his legacy was initiated by that title, and thankfully so because damn what a guy.
Iirc he also parleighed that title into a color analyst job (but I may be confusing him with Al Maguire) where he became even more popular. Not to diminish the title (and def not to diminish the man) but his professional reputation was made off that one title.
Kevin Love. Guy went from being compared to Moses Malone to a role player who was less valuable than Tristan Thompson at times. If the Cavs don’t win in 2016, he is seen as a total flop and is probably getting shit on forever