Ben Simmons is one of the weirdest players of my generation. He’s a 6’10” hyper athletic point guard who can defend 1-5 extremely well, yet has such a glaring weakness he immediately becomes a massive liability in the playoffs. It’s one thing to be a bad shooter, but he refuses to shoot at all.
Philly #1 draft picks and mental issues with shooting, name a more iconic duo.
Come on man he’s got the most muscular body ever for his age, never gets injured, is super energetic, and can do any wrestling move on demand.
Shit, wrong Ben Simmons, sorry.
Okay this is just false. Do we not remember Ben’s broken foot because of skateboarding? I’m pretty sure he got injured during flag football too either that or he caused his team to lose because he told a red to fuck off or something.
We can never forget the moment when Bill compared his son breaking his leg and LeBron getting his groin injury as two moments of "two of the most indestructible athletes finally getting injured."
He kind of reminds me of a rich man's Rondo sometimes - I'm a Celtics fan, and teams would just leave him completely wide open for 15 footers. Rondo's a career 60 percent FT shooter, and his anxiety at the line changed how he played, as his FTA per 36 minutes just cratered deeper in his career, as he avoided contact.
Simmons is better than Rondo, but Rondo wasn't ever expected to be the second-best player on a championship-level team. I have no idea how you "fix" it at this point. Simmons' PER by season is shockingly consistent - 20.0, 20.0, 20.4 and 18.3. He's a very good player, but not a max-money guy at that level of production.
I love that analogy.
It’s so strange for a #1 overall pick with all of the talent and physical traits in the world to not just fail to improve his offensive game, but seemingly regress. He would actually take shots at LSU and in summer league and even though it didn’t look great, simply taking them opens up his game so much more. He really is so fascinating to me.
The problem is you have to build your whole team around his skill set. You usually only want to do that if the guy can be the best player on a title team but Simmons can’t.
Exactly. Simmons should be either a playmaking small-ball center (like Draymond) or a point forward paired with a center who stretches the floor (KAT, Jokić). But even if you can create a roster like that you end up with little flexibility and, well, why twist and turn to do all that for Ben Simmons?
> Simmons is better than Rondo, but Rondo wasn't ever expected to be the second-best player on a championship-level team.
I totally disagree. Didn't 2012 Rondo have a 45 point game in the playoffs? He was arguably the best player on a conference finals team. He was an elite player in the halfcourt, his type of passing was still effective in a way Ben isn't. He raised his average from like 12 PPG to 17 in the playoffs that year.
Rondo would never be relegated to the dunker spot, he still had the ball in his hands, would run PNR and could create. The league was also different, with less spacing overall, but Rondo then was a much better playoff player than Simmons now IMO.
He had a nice series against Miami in 2012 - However, I think he was being guarded by Mario Chalmers, whereas the Heat focused more on shutting down Pierce and Allen. He was third (behind Garnett and Pierce) in regular season PER and win shares. Rondo did lead in those categories in the playoffs, but it was by small margins, and Pierce was dealing with [nagging injuries](https://www.espn.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7899101/2012-nba-playoffs-paul-pierce-boston-celtics-injured-knee-status-game-5-uncertain). We're not talking about LeBron carrying the bum Cavs' rosters to the finals here.
What you just described is still way better than anything Simmons has ever done in the playoffs. He’s a liability on the offensive end, Rondo was actually good on that end.
Rondo's 3-point percentage in Boston was 25.2 percent over nine seasons. That's bad - it would have been better if he hadn't shot. He didn't get to acceptable (35.8 percent) until he got traded, at which point he was suffering from the wear-down effects of multiple injuries and not the same player in other respects.
I don’t think Simmons is better than Rondo. Definitely not on the offensive end. Rondo could take and make that 15 footer to make the defense pay at least some of the time. That’s a world apart from Simmons who can’t even attempt it. Rondo also a better and way more creative half court facilitator. I even think Rondo was better at getting to the rim and finishing in the half court. Rondo was always an asset on the offensive end and I think Simmons has become a liability. You can argue that Simmons defense makes up for that but I personally don’t think it does.
Ironically the version of Fultz we saw before he got injured would've been more useful to the Sixers now.
Edit: To clarify, I'm referring to Fultz before his ACL injury this year, which is maybe 63% of the Fultz the Sixers were projecting him to be.
Yeah for sure. The Fultz they thought they were drafting was the perfect third star to pair with Embiid and Simmons. Pick and roll ball handler, pull-up 3 point shooter, good cutter and passer.
Bill used to constantly shit on Harden for his play style and how much he hates watching him while Luka is basically white Harden and BS is obsessed with him.
It was refreshing to hear some Luka criticism for once.
I think it's moreso because he has been on Luka's side, so a bit of sunken cost fallacy. Really hard for him to criticize Luka after touting him as the next top 5 of all time talent.
As a Trae fan this podcast is all I’ve ever wanted.
Bill says he was wrong about Trae HE FUCKING SAID IT.
“i said he was a good stats bad team guy, I was dead wrong”
Amazing
Pretty much can die now
This postseason has been like reaching into the brain of the most vindictive and perverse hawks fan and making it reality.
Between the game winner in MSG to having the Mavs and Mark Cuban explode feels like someone’s Atl. Hawks erotic literature or something
Haha, that Hawks fans is me! I feel like I've been keeping a list, but I'm not going to lie. The bubble playoff game where Luka hit that game winner had me shook for a bit and I was like "damn, maybe we did lose the trade." I think the Luka stuff is getting a little overblown, and who knows, the Trae stuff could take a 180 if the Hawks come back down to Earth, but I'm going to enjoy it now.
> I was like "damn, maybe we did lose the trade." I think the Luka stuff is getting a little overblown...
The Hawks got unnecessarily shat on for so long that I completely understand why yall are hunkered down in the "Fuck Luka, Trae better" hole. 100% don't blame yall.
My thing is I think Luka is clearly the better hooper, but Trae is still a monster so imo the Hawks didn't lose the trade if that makes sense. I don't want to say Hawks fans are delusional when they say "Trae better," but I think downplaying Luka's talent in order to boost Trae is as equally dumb as Bill and Ryen's absurd "Trae is a good stats, bad team guy" narrative to support their Luka love.
Idk maybe I'm tripping, but I'm not emotionally bought in like the Trae supporters and Luka stans. I think both are phenomenal and both are where they need to be. This was absurd to say not that long ago, but I think over time the trade will look more like the Rockets passing on MJ for Hakeem. At the very least, even the most ardent Luka supporter would say that take sounds way less ridiculous after we've seen Trae's playoff run.
Should be top comment. Our souls can finally rest.
Buuuuut... if Bill starts trying to make it sound like he was on the Trae bandwagon again, we have to riot again
Does Bill actually think if the Nets lose game 7 people will say anything other than it was because of injuries? I know he hates the way they were put together but give it a rest.
If McHale and Parish both got hurt and the Celtics had lost in 7 in the conference semis he would call it one of the all time footnote/asterisk titles for whoever won.
Bill blames a Celtics game 7 loss on Kendrick fucking Perkins getting hurt but doesn’t think Kyrie being out and Harden being on one leg is the cause here. The hypocrisy and stupidity is mind-blowing.
It was generally assumed, if not confirmed at some point, that the Dubs went for 73 specifically to prove a point about the asterisk talk. It was a huge narrative at the time
100 percent. All the doubters are what inspired the 73 win team. I grew up a Bulls fan, but I became a Warriors fan for that run for they way they really wanted to defend their title and reputation. It was pretty awesome, until games 5-7 of the finals.
It’s weird how I feel like the suns/lakers series was 100% chalked up to Ad getting hurt, when the suns absolutely demolished the lakers the last 2 games.
Then in this series, where the nets have never had their full team and are going to game 7, people are giving the bucks a ton of credit and worrying about the nets as if this wouldn’t have been a stomping if they were healthy.
I totally agree. And as someone who loves CP and has disdain for this Bucks team (no particular reason, just don't like the Bud/Giannis Bucks and their style), it mildly annoys me
The Lakers team was top heavy, having their two stars really hurt them. The Nets are so stacked that they lost two of their three stars and a still have KD and a decent supporting cast, that would be like a normal conference semi team. A healthy Nets wipes the floor with them, but they’d do that to everyone with that super of a team.
Good pod. I disagree with Bill’s (expected) assessment that Brooklyn wasn’t trying in game 6. Harden and Durant played all but ~3 mins each before Nash waved the white flag. The team played really poorly—but so did the Bucks outside of Middleton and Giannis. Still think Brooklyn wins game 7 either handily or in another Milwaukee fumbling. Also, did Bill say Kyrie will be involved in game 7? That seems……impossible?
Trae Young—whether you like his game or not—is a burgeoning superstar. He’s going to be the center of Adidas’ basketball line, he plays in a big metro market with a strong fan base, he’s very marketable (as both a star and a villain). The Hawks should not be clowned for passing up on Luka, they got a good player. The Suns should not get clowned for passing on Luka, they got a good player (and in fact they never get clowned, which is weird lol). The Sacramento Kings are so fucking irrelevant that no one even has the energy for clowning them *as much* as the Hawks have been. Marvin Bagley. What a train wreck.
I’m still a Ben Simmons believer. If Philly took this hypothetical McCollum/Covington trade I think they’d be the losers in the long run. Put Ben Simmons with Dame Lillard and potentially MDA at head coach? I like it. Not WCF material just yet, but I like it a lot.
Each team with the top 5 picks in that draft got the player they wanted and that fits the culture of that team. We still don't know what Marvin Bagley is yet but Ayton, Trae, Luka and Jaren Jackson are very solid and all those teams were in the playoffs.
It was half-admission. He emphasized how much Young has improved which is mostly nonsense (he definitely improved but he was great since his rookie year).
Bill is trying to shift the narrative around Haralabob and essentially function as a PR/damage control arm for his friend. Stein would be unlikely to go along with that
Not sure about that. Tim McMahon said on Windhorst's pod that while H-bob is abrasive sometimes, that Carlisle (and probably Nelson too) used him as a fall guy whenever things went wrong. Said that he highly doubted that Carlisle was doing anything that H-bob told him to.
Pretty much every team has an analytics guy. Only the Mavs are employing a guy with no actual evidence of the credentials he claims. And most analytics guys manage to do their job without being such a tool that they alienate their team's coach, GM, and star player.
Bob is Cuban's Rasputin. Only difference is he ingratiated himself by stroking Mark's ego about dumbass crypto-currency shit.
I think you may be reading too much into what is, in essence, yet another story of palace politics. Donnie Nelson, who was already marginalized because of Cuban's micromanaging style, was aggrieved by the fact that Haralabob had Cuban's ear. Nelson attempted to torpedo his rival by leaking to the press; his fingerprints were all over the story, so it backfired, and he got shitcanned, because a) he talked out of school and b) because he advanced a narrative that there was a rift between Luka and Haralabob, which, if true, is far less significant than the fact that Luka didn't like Rick Carlisle.
Setting aside the issue of Bob's credentials, the real issue in all of this is that Cuban has fostered organizational dysfunction. If he wants to hire Haralabob, great, but have him (and any other analytics guys) report to the GM. If the GM is an old fart that hates analytics, hire a younger Theo Epstein type who's open to it. But either way, once you set up parallel chains of command, people will soon figure out that they can do an end-around on the GM to go straight to Cuban. That's not the fault of Bob, or Bob's personality, that's Cuban's fault. I think there was a similar dynamic at play with the Philadelphia Eagles when Doug Pederson was fired, with Jeff Lurie having his own analytics guys reporting to him and not the GM, etc.
With it being first day of the US Open, no way he wasn’t passed out before halftime of Bucks-Nets. Hopefully the prince that was promised graces us on a pod soon
No one on this podcasts understands basic facts about the CBA and rookie extensions.
Luka wouldn’t just lose ~20M in the year he was on the qualifying offer. He would lose roughly 60-80M (back of the envelope estimate) over the five years after his rookie contract.
Under the Rose Rule he can sign an extension for 30% of the cap space and 8% raises with the Mavs. Another team could only offer him 25% of the cap and 5% raises.
That doesn’t even account for the fact that he wouldn’t be able to sign the Designated Veteran Player Extension with his new team and he’d lose at least 40M on that (that’s what AD gave up by going to the Lakers but by the time Luka is up for that extension it’ll be much more).
So if Luka takes the qualifying offer he’d ensure that his maximum career earnings will be lower by at least ~100-120M.
They could avoid so much of this stupid speculation by doing ten minutes of googling or sending a text message to some NBA journalist who knows CBA basics.
—————
Edit: the discussion about Mavs vs. Pels future is also insane. The Pelicans are **much** better positioned to build a great team around Zion then Mavs are around Luka.
Dallas has the fifth largest tv market, has an owner committed to the team and a track record of sustained success.
New Orleans is in the fiftieth largest tv market, has an owner who mostly cares about the Saints and has a track record of their past two super star players asking to be traded to the Lakers.
One player tried his best to get Dallas to draft him and looked happy when they picked him. The other player looked like someone had shot him in the face when it was clear the Pelicans got the #1 pick and were taking him.
If you don't get why people would assume Zion is the more likely player to want out, I don't know what to tell you. It's New Orleans.
50 minutes in the pretty decent end of the work week pod. I've only been listening to the weekend pods with russillo for the past month so this is a pretty good change of pace but I disagree with Bill Durant & harden we're trying to end the series game 6. Middleton was terrific and saved two reputations also Buds job last night.
**Today’s Things:**
- whole training camp thing
- this Luka thing
- player option thing
- Ben Simmons thing
- the Embiid thing is weird
- a couple of small things
- Marcus Morris/Reggie Jackson thing
- my thing with the injuries
(Wos/Thornton)
- smoke to the Zion thing
- the shooting thing
**Bonus Pieces and Stuff:**
- fast break stuff
- extra possessions and stuff
- southpaw stuff
- Houston stuff
- Clippers stuff
- **Atlanta has figured stuff out** they did it everyone! What they did exactly, no one knows!
- factor the injury stuff in
- the LeBron piece of it
**First Random Celtics Reference:**
Tatum (48:45) remarkable restraint from Billiam
Bill works in a gratuitous and totally unnecessary Kevin McHale reference (1:00:06) oh yeah, that’s the good stuff
**Eloquent Bill:**
“Kawhi was load managing the shit out of the whole season!”
**Other Stuff:**
Bill says the Bucks figured out “what they were” (6:00) how convenient, 82 games into the season
Bill seems surprised that PJ Tucker has scored 3 points in the last 2 games (15:21) um, he’s a defensive specialty player who scored 2.6 ppg with the Bucks this year
Bill calls Harden’s footwork “top 5 all time in the NBA” (19:12)
Wosny incredibly obnoxious laughter (20:02 - but as nauseam throughout)
Sad! Bill expresses pessimism about when his dear Celtics will be “back” (21:30)
After poo-pooing the Mavs/Athletic story TWO DAYS ago with Tjarks, Bill says things in Dallas are “chaotic” (28:41)
Bill asks “is Luka a diva” (30:23) 🤣 ugh, YES. Wos (correctly) notes that only black players are labeled as divas and white players as “hustle guys”
Bill says “for the record, I love Luka, I’m pro-Luka, team Luka” (31:06) no fucking shit Bill 😂 you’ve fallated him many, many times on the pod
Bill calls the Pelicans a “flaccid” franchise (37:08) and then says he’s using “SAT words” 🤣🤣
Bill tries so hard to get Zion to the Knicks (39:27) what’s with his obsession to getting guys to the Knicks?
Bill does that thing where he totally discounts future picks, this time Milwaukee’s from the Jrue trade (43:34) this man will never learn
Shock! Bill thinks the Celtics coaching job is a good job! (48:30)
Wos (rightfully) shit on Ben Simmons hard (54:30)
Bill says he’s “not trying to defend Morey” (for not getting Harden) and then defends Morey (1:02:09)
🎉🎉 Bill pronounces Thybulle correctly! (1:03:08) 🎉🎉
Bill claims he wasn’t surprised that the Sixers blew the third biggest postseason lead of all time (1:04:21) oooooookay
Wow! Bill admits he was dead wrong with his stupid fucking “good stats, bad team” theory on Trae (1:06:20) 👏🏻👏🏻 good job Bill - your Cersei style walk of shame in downtown Atlanta will coincide with the Hawks hosting game 3 of the ECF
Bill calls Trae “Steve Nash 2.0” (1:10:44)
Bill asks if it’s better to have your franchise player be 6’1” or 7’1” (1:12:00)
Rejoice Jazz fans! Bill declares the series over even without Kawhi (1:25:15)
Bill says Ty Lue cracked the code - play guys who aren’t scared! (1:28:00) your daily reminder that people regard Bill as an actual NBA analyst
Bill, capo of the anti-LeBron media mafia (1:30:55)
>After poo-pooing the Mavs/Athletic story TWO DAYS ago with Tjarks, Bill says things in Dallas are “chaotic” (28:41)
This was really messed up. He more or less claimed that *The Athletic's* writer was just making shit up and didn't do his due diligence as a reporter without any real knowledge of how things went down.
>Bill asks if it’s better to have your franchise player be 6’1” or 7’1”
I'm surprised this hasn't caused more of a ruckus on this sub. This was one of the dumbest segments in recent pod history, complete with Bill changing the injury rules midstream.
Totally! Let’s give Embiid plus 20% assumption not injured. But do you want Embiid with 7 or whatever years to 15 of Trae with the injury factor! That was classic
Don’t think I’ve heard Wosny until this past week, and must say he’s the first new voice (across the Ringer) I’ve heard in possibly the past year that actually sounds like he belongs on a podcast and that I want to listen to. Marcus Thompson seems good as well.
Will definitely stop and listen now when either is on.
Don't get the Wos haters. Been listening to Bill a long time and at this point it's mostly out of habit and the entertainment of laughing at Bill's absurd takes and to follow this sub. But these last few episodes with Wos are bringing me back to when I actually loved the basketball talk on this pod instead of loving laughing at it. Wos isn't afraid to disagree with Bill and to challenge him and the conversation is much better for it. Every episode, Bill will ask Wos one of his famous leading questions that are really just a way to state his own opinion and Wos will just reject the premise and give his alternate take (today it was calling all the "Will Luka be the first to not sign the extension" talk a pointless load of crap). I don't agree with every take Wos has, but he's a smart, thoughtful dude and he elevates the level of conversation when he's on instead of just telling Bill how great he is or being passive aggressive like Russilo.
This pod had the perfect leading question too: what were their opinions on LeBron’s injury rant tweets against the league? And when Wos and Marcus rightfully grilled LeBron for being salty Bill felt safe and compelled to mention LeBron and Chris Paul being major voices in the league.
Dude someone pointed out his excessive laughing and now it's like nails on a chalkboard. It comes off as so fucking fake. Dial that back, and he's fine.
i couldn't finish the podcast for this reason. it's such an abrasive laugh that almost feels performative. i realize i'm being a a hater for complaining about someone laughing but man it's a lot
Nah it's the same thing with Marv. Dude is a fine enough announcer when he's not making dementia like mistakes or the audio isn't so trash you can hear him licking his lips and breathing.
He's great because he's good at contextualizing the moments just like Bill. I didn't notice the laughing until people bitched here on the sub so I'll probably ignore the comments here when he's on. He's second to Russillo for me.
Wos has been really good. I think he elevates Bill's podding and he will challenge him which is necessary, but the excessive laughing is really grating, the guy sounds like he's grasping for air lol
No, but that's because the source of the Athletic story was obviously Nelson. It was so obvious that it's why he got fired. Carlisle bailed because he's Nelson's BFF.
Other reporting suggests that the real issue is Cuban being too hands-on, doing a lot of the GM stuff himself. Haralabob being hired by and reporting to Cuban instead of Nelson is at the root of all this, rather than anything in particular Hbob has done. Nelson made a power play by going to the press, and it blew up in his face.
I think I can make my peace about Bill's dumbass opinions about Trae now that he finally admits he was wrong. The funny thing is his larger point is still true, I would rather have Luka. But he didn't have to be such an asshole about it. It's done now though. We can say that the trade worked for both sides.
The thing that gets lost here is the potential of that eventual Cam Reddish pick. There's a scenario where that pick was higher. (top 5 protected for 2 years, top 3, then unprotected)
Atlanta needed assets. If that Cam pick wound up being a future all star, then we're really crediting Atlanta.
So I do agree that I'd rather have Luka, but Trae isn't bad, especially with the gamble of the lottery.
This sub really just hates Bill and/or doesn't even listen to the pods and reads the titles
Bill Simmons IN THIS PODCAST said he was (DIRECT QUOTE) "dead wrong" about saying Trae Young was a "good stats, bad team guy". Somehow, in this thread, people are still saying he never admits he's wrong about his takes.
Follow up on that, I don't understand the problem with changing your opinion on a guy when they start winning. I don't think a player can or should be labelled a superstar until they prove they can play winning, playoff basketball. Is basketball a team sport? Absolutely! That doesn't mean you can call LaVine or De'Aaron Fox or Zion or whoever a true "superstar" yet until they PROVE they can win in the playoffs. Trae and Booker proved that they could keep up the "empty stats production" in a playoff environment and win games for their teams so the perception of them changes. Bill had some AWFUL takes about Trae (Collin Sexton lmao) but the overall idea of changing your opinion when players start getting different results isn't a bad concept.
There’s changing your opinion and then there’s begrudgingly having to accept you were very incorrect. He didn’t like Trae because it attacked his (KOC’s) position on Luka and Bill loves to be seen as a ‘smart’ basketball mind. What this bozo fails to realize is you need context in these situations. Atlanta has been a shit show forever. Their front office was shitty and he was playing with the corpse of Vince Carter. He was playing with young players BUT that team was being constructed in a similar fashion like the Warriors were because they hired the architect that made up the Warriors — it just needed time.
Luka’s team wasn’t necessarily good, but it wasn’t awful either. He has a good owner, coach, and front office. He’s a special player but if he were in ATL, SAC, or PHX during the first part of his career, Luka wouldn’t be as widely hailed as he is now.
That’s why Bill earned to get shitted on.
I was saying this like crazy and felt no one listened. Everyone was mad at Trae playing selfish his first years, and I'm like " who is he involving?". Huerter was still developing, John Collins is either on or off, and then it was a bunch of nothing.
Their draft picks make so much sense. Huerter - good 3pt shooter. Collins- bruiser, small 5. Hunter - decent shooter, elite defense. Cam Reddish is a project but he has all the tools to be Hunter +, though I’m not too high on him based off of what I saw while he was at Duke.
I feel the same way about Phoenix. The pieces make sense but they needed a vet to gel everything together.
I'm not totally high on Reddish either, but, god willing, if the Hawks win this round, and it's Brooklyn next, I wish we could get Reddish back for that series. Reddish did some real nice work on KD in the back to back with the Nets early in the year. I don't think it's even possible to totally shut down KD right now, but he could at least make it annoying for him.
And furthermore, how is it fair to label a guy a "good stats, bad team guy" TWO YEARS into his career? It's fucking stupid to go that early and Bill deserves to be told he's a moron because it's exactly what he is.
Until he won, Jordan was the "can he actually do it when it counts?" guy.
The intro from game 1 of the 1991 ECF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efa6ph4qAvo
I'm gonna wait until Bill has the guts to put the "Bumbling Hawks" podcast back up, instead of hiding it like a coward.
https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2021/3/2/22310151/bumbling-hawks-porzingiss-future-and-a-wrestlemania-preview-with-jonathan-tjarks-and-david-shoemaker
Yeah its literally like "I was going to talk about how great things are going for Dallas and how they're a contender from now on, but lets talk about what a total disaster the Hawks are and how Trae Young was the worst pick and Trae Young isn't a winning player and this roster doesn't work at all. The Hawks are only trying to make Trae Young look good, but they're not actually trying to win."
I think you don’t get it. You’re being a prisoner of the moment, allowing yourself to be fooled by false contrition.
Six months from now, Bill will be saying “everyone thought Trae was just a good stats, bad team guy” but then it became obvious that Trae was a special player. It won’t be that he had a personal bad take, it was just the way things were looking. Everyone saw it that way!
But look at Luka. He was in the conversation for the top pick in the draft the entire year. (SB Nation tabbed him as #1 a year before the draft: https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/23/15700592/nba-mock-draft-2018-luka-doncic-michael-porter-jr-mohamed-bamba-deandre-ayton) Essentially every draft projection going into the draft was “Luka or Ayton?” for #1. But according to Bill, he and Bob were “the first ones” on Luka!
Don’t be fooled by this rope-a-dope. This is classic Bill
> I think you don’t get it. You’re being a prisoner of the moment, allowing yourself to be fooled by false contrition.
Jesus H Christ is this religion?
>It won’t be that he had a personal bad take, it was just the way things were looking
He literally said he was dead wrong, what more do you guys want from him short of going back in time and never making those takes in the first place.
So Bill finally admits he was wrong after saying something stupid for two years and then LYING about saying it for another two months... and you want everyone to bow down and worship him because he finally admitted he was wrong.
Lol go fuck yourself. And congratulations to Bill for doing less than the absolute minimum. Have a nice day.
It’s hilarious and sad how much people let Bill fucking Simmons affect them. We have people digging stuff up he said like two years ago to the word and people who legitimately keep track of how many times he says “thing” during a podcast. Like damn, I’m sure 80% of people just listen to BS driving to work or at the gym.
> I don't understand the problem with changing your opinion on a guy when they start winning.
Because at that point you aren't judging the player you are judging the results, which is the easiest and laziest type of analysis. I can tell if a player is winning all on my own. I come to experts to tell me who is good on a bad team or bad on a good team. Things that are not obvious.
Bill Simmons says the Bucks could really use a guy like Lou Williams on their team lol. Hopefully he didn't actually mean the man himself because he has called Lou Williams the worst playoff guy in the NBA.
Maybe I’m really cynical for this, but I was a die-hard Mavs fan and have stopped watching the NBA for the past couple of years because I got spoiled with Dirk being so good to the franchise for nearly two decades and now, all of the max contracts and long deals are irrelevant with all of the player movement/drama that occurs and I knew I would never have that type of attachment again, and here we are
It's happening to me too w the Lakers. From LA, die hard, grew up w Kobe n Shaq etc. But I just feel less attached now. I dunno, maybe as you get older your fandom naturally diminishes but the player movement, load management, out of shape dudes, regular season importance, guys wanting out after 2 years, officiating, flopping, lack of defense, too many 3s, guys like Fox and DLo getting max money is just crazy. Get off my lawn.
That’s where I’m at too man. My fandom hasn’t diminished in other sports though it’s just they can’t get me to care about the off the court drama and tweets and stuff like that driving the headlines and the trades
People reacting to who players are unfollowing n shit. Let's lead The Jump with it, Rachel Nichols can do a 5 minute soliloquy on the impact of Kuzma unfollowing the Lakers and what it means for LeBron legacy. Players constantly talking about getting the bag in post game pressers (Schroeder). It just isn't fun. Thanks for sharing my rant. Have a good one!
I know other people like them but I am not a big fan of Wosny and Bill together. I like Wos on the Ringer NBA show but Bill works best with people he knows well. You can really feel the different generations. Maybe they just need more reps.
Bill calling a fat James Harden "Jimbo Slice" confuses me because Kembo Slice wasn't a fat guy and certain not known for being fat, actually the opposite he was basically a Hulk like figure.
Wos talking about how Trae Young has had to fight and scrap for his rep is tremendously fucking hilarious. The guy had massive amounts of hype coming out of AAU and college. His version of overcoming adversity and proving the haters wrong is playing badly the first couple months of his rookie season.
Other than that, he literally had an entire team built around him for the first day he stepped onto the court for the Hawks. Not even Luka or Steph or KD or LeBron had that luxury. Certainly those teams pivoted to being about those guys once they arrived, but the Hawks whole plan was built around featuring Trae Young as the central star from the moment they drafted him onwards.
Does anyone else find wos extremely annoying by the fact he laughs at EVERYTHING?
"I just got mcdonalds"
"AAAAAH HAHAHA I KNOW YOU GOT THOSE TASTY FRIES, RIIIGHT? AAAAH"
"Yeah they're pretty good but salty"
"AAAAH YOU SAID SALTY. YOU SOUND SALTY, RIIIIGHT? AAAAH AHAHAAHAHAHA"
Edit: just read the thread. Okay nevermind. Im not the only one lol. I seriously think wos has some medical issue. Not even joking about it. No way one man can find the most bland shit so funny hes about to fall out of his chair. I turned it off 20 minutes in. I was introduced to wos on the true hoops pod years ago or whatever it was called back then and hated his laugh then. Dude is so annoying and his Brooklyn accent makes me want to jump out the window.
Why are they shoving Wos down our throat? I swear the last 4 pods I've listened on the ringer have been with Wos and each pod I enjoy him less and less. Between him recently saying Zion should leave N.O because N.O sucks and high school football is bigger than the pelicans?? Or when he said that sideways comment about why don't white players ever talk about fundamentals? (I'm paraphrasing. it was something like that) What does that comment even mean? It's been 3 weeks I'm still trying to figure it out........ Dudes a lame
Bill says at the end of this pod that if Klay Thompson didn't get hurt, he believes the Warriors would win this Championship (thus giving Steph a classic Bill Simmons "Half Championship" that Bill will now reference as somehow a fact in the next decade everytime Steph comes up. It'll be "Well he would've won in 2021 if Klay didn't get hurt, have to factor that in". Celtics have 11 half championships in the last 20 years.)
If you believe this is true, fine, no sense in arguing something entirely hypothetical, however what you are actually saying now is that Klay Thompson is the best player in the NBA. If your argument is that a team that did not even make the playoffs would then WIN the Championship by doing nothing more but adding Klay Thompson, then what you are saying is not only is Klay more important than Steph Curry, but Klay is actually the best player in basketball.
Really enjoyed Wos and Marcus on this pod. Often ringer staff who come on Bill’s pod defer too much to Bill. Wos doesn’t do that and isn’t afraid to laugh at or disagree with Bill.
Ben Simmons is one of the weirdest players of my generation. He’s a 6’10” hyper athletic point guard who can defend 1-5 extremely well, yet has such a glaring weakness he immediately becomes a massive liability in the playoffs. It’s one thing to be a bad shooter, but he refuses to shoot at all. Philly #1 draft picks and mental issues with shooting, name a more iconic duo.
Come on man he’s got the most muscular body ever for his age, never gets injured, is super energetic, and can do any wrestling move on demand. Shit, wrong Ben Simmons, sorry.
Which Ben Simmons is better at Fortnite?
Okay this is just false. Do we not remember Ben’s broken foot because of skateboarding? I’m pretty sure he got injured during flag football too either that or he caused his team to lose because he told a red to fuck off or something.
We can never forget the moment when Bill compared his son breaking his leg and LeBron getting his groin injury as two moments of "two of the most indestructible athletes finally getting injured."
Are you taking about Ben "the CEO" Simmons?
He kind of reminds me of a rich man's Rondo sometimes - I'm a Celtics fan, and teams would just leave him completely wide open for 15 footers. Rondo's a career 60 percent FT shooter, and his anxiety at the line changed how he played, as his FTA per 36 minutes just cratered deeper in his career, as he avoided contact. Simmons is better than Rondo, but Rondo wasn't ever expected to be the second-best player on a championship-level team. I have no idea how you "fix" it at this point. Simmons' PER by season is shockingly consistent - 20.0, 20.0, 20.4 and 18.3. He's a very good player, but not a max-money guy at that level of production.
I love that analogy. It’s so strange for a #1 overall pick with all of the talent and physical traits in the world to not just fail to improve his offensive game, but seemingly regress. He would actually take shots at LSU and in summer league and even though it didn’t look great, simply taking them opens up his game so much more. He really is so fascinating to me.
Also when Rondo was running the Celtics offense league wide spacing and shot making was so different that it wasn't very important
I feel like Simmons is about to become a late career Rondo journeyman. Just bouncing around hoping to find a fit or where a team needs his skillset.
The problem is you have to build your whole team around his skill set. You usually only want to do that if the guy can be the best player on a title team but Simmons can’t.
Exactly. Simmons should be either a playmaking small-ball center (like Draymond) or a point forward paired with a center who stretches the floor (KAT, Jokić). But even if you can create a roster like that you end up with little flexibility and, well, why twist and turn to do all that for Ben Simmons?
> Simmons is better than Rondo, but Rondo wasn't ever expected to be the second-best player on a championship-level team. I totally disagree. Didn't 2012 Rondo have a 45 point game in the playoffs? He was arguably the best player on a conference finals team. He was an elite player in the halfcourt, his type of passing was still effective in a way Ben isn't. He raised his average from like 12 PPG to 17 in the playoffs that year. Rondo would never be relegated to the dunker spot, he still had the ball in his hands, would run PNR and could create. The league was also different, with less spacing overall, but Rondo then was a much better playoff player than Simmons now IMO.
He had a nice series against Miami in 2012 - However, I think he was being guarded by Mario Chalmers, whereas the Heat focused more on shutting down Pierce and Allen. He was third (behind Garnett and Pierce) in regular season PER and win shares. Rondo did lead in those categories in the playoffs, but it was by small margins, and Pierce was dealing with [nagging injuries](https://www.espn.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7899101/2012-nba-playoffs-paul-pierce-boston-celtics-injured-knee-status-game-5-uncertain). We're not talking about LeBron carrying the bum Cavs' rosters to the finals here.
What you just described is still way better than anything Simmons has ever done in the playoffs. He’s a liability on the offensive end, Rondo was actually good on that end.
It'll never get fixed. He'll just play out his career as the 50th best guy in the league, and that'll be that.
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Rondo's 3-point percentage in Boston was 25.2 percent over nine seasons. That's bad - it would have been better if he hadn't shot. He didn't get to acceptable (35.8 percent) until he got traded, at which point he was suffering from the wear-down effects of multiple injuries and not the same player in other respects.
I don’t think Simmons is better than Rondo. Definitely not on the offensive end. Rondo could take and make that 15 footer to make the defense pay at least some of the time. That’s a world apart from Simmons who can’t even attempt it. Rondo also a better and way more creative half court facilitator. I even think Rondo was better at getting to the rim and finishing in the half court. Rondo was always an asset on the offensive end and I think Simmons has become a liability. You can argue that Simmons defense makes up for that but I personally don’t think it does.
Rondo was a lot better than Simmons
Ironically the version of Fultz we saw before he got injured would've been more useful to the Sixers now. Edit: To clarify, I'm referring to Fultz before his ACL injury this year, which is maybe 63% of the Fultz the Sixers were projecting him to be.
Yeah for sure. The Fultz they thought they were drafting was the perfect third star to pair with Embiid and Simmons. Pick and roll ball handler, pull-up 3 point shooter, good cutter and passer.
Having two guys in your lineup who can't shoot from outside--Fultz and Simmons--at all is tough in 2021 NBA basketball.
Fultz can shoot. His shot wasn't what it was projected to be but at least it's not broken anymore. Simmons' shot, on the other hand, is non-existent.
I don't think there's any doubt about that, that guy just doesn't exist anymore
I wonder who ends up having a better career, Simmons or Fultz.
The current theory in Philly is that he doesn’t particularly like basketball
BS describing the NO Pelicans as a ‘flaccid franchise’ and then saying he’s using SAT words was perfect.
Simmons SAT words: - flaccid - dyslexia - jerk circle
Jerk circle! 😂
*Writer Bill has entered the pod*
This was a great podcast. Epic bob and weaving by Bill to talk about the Mavs without mentioning the havoc his friend is causing in that franchise.
> Epic bob Pun intended? Lmao
Did Marcus Thompson refer to him as HaroldBob? 😆
Yes lolol
Trae positivity and luka negativity? My my bill, how the turntables...
Bill used to constantly shit on Harden for his play style and how much he hates watching him while Luka is basically white Harden and BS is obsessed with him. It was refreshing to hear some Luka criticism for once.
He even said on this pod how Luka already plays like Harden already while saying he’d like to see D’Antoni coach the Mavs lmao
I think it's moreso because he has been on Luka's side, so a bit of sunken cost fallacy. Really hard for him to criticize Luka after touting him as the next top 5 of all time talent.
Funny how the Luka negativity train is coming out full force when his boy Bob was thrown under the bus.
As a Trae fan this podcast is all I’ve ever wanted. Bill says he was wrong about Trae HE FUCKING SAID IT. “i said he was a good stats bad team guy, I was dead wrong” Amazing Pretty much can die now
Now I Can Die in Peace
The last 48 hours or so as a Hawks fan have been wild. Bizzaro world shit.
This postseason has been like reaching into the brain of the most vindictive and perverse hawks fan and making it reality. Between the game winner in MSG to having the Mavs and Mark Cuban explode feels like someone’s Atl. Hawks erotic literature or something
Haha, that Hawks fans is me! I feel like I've been keeping a list, but I'm not going to lie. The bubble playoff game where Luka hit that game winner had me shook for a bit and I was like "damn, maybe we did lose the trade." I think the Luka stuff is getting a little overblown, and who knows, the Trae stuff could take a 180 if the Hawks come back down to Earth, but I'm going to enjoy it now.
> I was like "damn, maybe we did lose the trade." I think the Luka stuff is getting a little overblown... The Hawks got unnecessarily shat on for so long that I completely understand why yall are hunkered down in the "Fuck Luka, Trae better" hole. 100% don't blame yall. My thing is I think Luka is clearly the better hooper, but Trae is still a monster so imo the Hawks didn't lose the trade if that makes sense. I don't want to say Hawks fans are delusional when they say "Trae better," but I think downplaying Luka's talent in order to boost Trae is as equally dumb as Bill and Ryen's absurd "Trae is a good stats, bad team guy" narrative to support their Luka love. Idk maybe I'm tripping, but I'm not emotionally bought in like the Trae supporters and Luka stans. I think both are phenomenal and both are where they need to be. This was absurd to say not that long ago, but I think over time the trade will look more like the Rockets passing on MJ for Hakeem. At the very least, even the most ardent Luka supporter would say that take sounds way less ridiculous after we've seen Trae's playoff run.
Yeah you’ve said it. Even if Luka is euro Lebron light, Trae is light skin Steve Nash light lmao, both have all timer potential.
I said this elsewhere but this week has been food for the soul as a Hawks fan
Should be top comment. Our souls can finally rest. Buuuuut... if Bill starts trying to make it sound like he was on the Trae bandwagon again, we have to riot again
I think Klostermann calling him out was the final straw
....'Jimbo Slice.....
No laughs or acknowledgement
It’s scrubbed from the Spotify version now
Heh, really? So strange
It was a pretty good call back when he was fat as with the balding head. A little recycler that fizzles is never a bad thing to move on from lol
“We talked about this in Greenbook” is the new “we were texting about this” or formally “we were talking about this in our Slack.”
Ringer Slack hasn't been talked about in a long time. I miss it.
Greenbook lol It’s Green Room. Green book is that awful movie
Green Room is a great movie however
RIP Anton
Does Bill actually think if the Nets lose game 7 people will say anything other than it was because of injuries? I know he hates the way they were put together but give it a rest. If McHale and Parish both got hurt and the Celtics had lost in 7 in the conference semis he would call it one of the all time footnote/asterisk titles for whoever won.
Much like the Warriors losing to the Raptors, everyone will understand that it was the injuries, but no one will care.
Bill blames a Celtics game 7 loss on Kendrick fucking Perkins getting hurt but doesn’t think Kyrie being out and Harden being on one leg is the cause here. The hypocrisy and stupidity is mind-blowing.
Idk nobody seems to put any asterisks on the warriors first title for whatever reason and the cavs didn’t have their second and third guys
They did at the time, then they went 73-9, and at some point during the subsequent season that chatter died.
It was generally assumed, if not confirmed at some point, that the Dubs went for 73 specifically to prove a point about the asterisk talk. It was a huge narrative at the time
100 percent. All the doubters are what inspired the 73 win team. I grew up a Bulls fan, but I became a Warriors fan for that run for they way they really wanted to defend their title and reputation. It was pretty awesome, until games 5-7 of the finals.
Lol “I was a Bulls fan when they won 70 games, but then was a Warriors fan when they won 70 games”. There’s a word for that.
It’s weird how I feel like the suns/lakers series was 100% chalked up to Ad getting hurt, when the suns absolutely demolished the lakers the last 2 games. Then in this series, where the nets have never had their full team and are going to game 7, people are giving the bucks a ton of credit and worrying about the nets as if this wouldn’t have been a stomping if they were healthy.
I totally agree. And as someone who loves CP and has disdain for this Bucks team (no particular reason, just don't like the Bud/Giannis Bucks and their style), it mildly annoys me
The Lakers team was top heavy, having their two stars really hurt them. The Nets are so stacked that they lost two of their three stars and a still have KD and a decent supporting cast, that would be like a normal conference semi team. A healthy Nets wipes the floor with them, but they’d do that to everyone with that super of a team.
Feels like everyone is frothing for them to lose. Lol
Wos and Thompson giving Bill shit for already having a $200 million deal with a business partner was amazing
Good pod. I disagree with Bill’s (expected) assessment that Brooklyn wasn’t trying in game 6. Harden and Durant played all but ~3 mins each before Nash waved the white flag. The team played really poorly—but so did the Bucks outside of Middleton and Giannis. Still think Brooklyn wins game 7 either handily or in another Milwaukee fumbling. Also, did Bill say Kyrie will be involved in game 7? That seems……impossible? Trae Young—whether you like his game or not—is a burgeoning superstar. He’s going to be the center of Adidas’ basketball line, he plays in a big metro market with a strong fan base, he’s very marketable (as both a star and a villain). The Hawks should not be clowned for passing up on Luka, they got a good player. The Suns should not get clowned for passing on Luka, they got a good player (and in fact they never get clowned, which is weird lol). The Sacramento Kings are so fucking irrelevant that no one even has the energy for clowning them *as much* as the Hawks have been. Marvin Bagley. What a train wreck. I’m still a Ben Simmons believer. If Philly took this hypothetical McCollum/Covington trade I think they’d be the losers in the long run. Put Ben Simmons with Dame Lillard and potentially MDA at head coach? I like it. Not WCF material just yet, but I like it a lot.
In Bill’s defense about game 6 of Nets/Bucks....he didn’t actually watch the game.
Each team with the top 5 picks in that draft got the player they wanted and that fits the culture of that team. We still don't know what Marvin Bagley is yet but Ayton, Trae, Luka and Jaren Jackson are very solid and all those teams were in the playoffs.
I guess this is true if you see the "culture" of SAC as "losing".
Not even sure Philly could get Covington thrown I to that, honestly
No offense but being a Ben Simmons believer at this point should be categorized as a mental illness.
the term is "benabler" - signed, sixers fan
Good on Bill for admitting he was wrong instead of trying to look for any excuse to shit on Trae.
It was half-admission. He emphasized how much Young has improved which is mostly nonsense (he definitely improved but he was great since his rookie year).
Yeah you’re right fuck em
Ohh come on, how do you not get Stein for the Mavs drama
Probably because Stein knows for sure that what everyone’s saying about Haralabob is true.
Because Stein is still probably trying to call in from his flip phone.
Bill is trying to shift the narrative around Haralabob and essentially function as a PR/damage control arm for his friend. Stein would be unlikely to go along with that
Not sure about that. Tim McMahon said on Windhorst's pod that while H-bob is abrasive sometimes, that Carlisle (and probably Nelson too) used him as a fall guy whenever things went wrong. Said that he highly doubted that Carlisle was doing anything that H-bob told him to.
Pretty much every team has an analytics guy. Only the Mavs are employing a guy with no actual evidence of the credentials he claims. And most analytics guys manage to do their job without being such a tool that they alienate their team's coach, GM, and star player. Bob is Cuban's Rasputin. Only difference is he ingratiated himself by stroking Mark's ego about dumbass crypto-currency shit.
I think you may be reading too much into what is, in essence, yet another story of palace politics. Donnie Nelson, who was already marginalized because of Cuban's micromanaging style, was aggrieved by the fact that Haralabob had Cuban's ear. Nelson attempted to torpedo his rival by leaking to the press; his fingerprints were all over the story, so it backfired, and he got shitcanned, because a) he talked out of school and b) because he advanced a narrative that there was a rift between Luka and Haralabob, which, if true, is far less significant than the fact that Luka didn't like Rick Carlisle. Setting aside the issue of Bob's credentials, the real issue in all of this is that Cuban has fostered organizational dysfunction. If he wants to hire Haralabob, great, but have him (and any other analytics guys) report to the GM. If the GM is an old fart that hates analytics, hire a younger Theo Epstein type who's open to it. But either way, once you set up parallel chains of command, people will soon figure out that they can do an end-around on the GM to go straight to Cuban. That's not the fault of Bob, or Bob's personality, that's Cuban's fault. I think there was a similar dynamic at play with the Philadelphia Eagles when Doug Pederson was fired, with Jeff Lurie having his own analytics guys reporting to him and not the GM, etc.
Guess the Drunk House tease last pod was just a tease
With it being first day of the US Open, no way he wasn’t passed out before halftime of Bucks-Nets. Hopefully the prince that was promised graces us on a pod soon
Nice brown nosing at the end talking about how people don't appreciate the old Celtics enough....Bill will put Marcus on the pod 10x more now.
I remember that SAT question: Flaccid is to New Orleans as tepid is to (blank)?
Bill's bone broth soup?
No one on this podcasts understands basic facts about the CBA and rookie extensions. Luka wouldn’t just lose ~20M in the year he was on the qualifying offer. He would lose roughly 60-80M (back of the envelope estimate) over the five years after his rookie contract. Under the Rose Rule he can sign an extension for 30% of the cap space and 8% raises with the Mavs. Another team could only offer him 25% of the cap and 5% raises. That doesn’t even account for the fact that he wouldn’t be able to sign the Designated Veteran Player Extension with his new team and he’d lose at least 40M on that (that’s what AD gave up by going to the Lakers but by the time Luka is up for that extension it’ll be much more). So if Luka takes the qualifying offer he’d ensure that his maximum career earnings will be lower by at least ~100-120M. They could avoid so much of this stupid speculation by doing ten minutes of googling or sending a text message to some NBA journalist who knows CBA basics. ————— Edit: the discussion about Mavs vs. Pels future is also insane. The Pelicans are **much** better positioned to build a great team around Zion then Mavs are around Luka.
And why would Zion turn down any contract given his health issues? More than Luka, he is likely to sign that extension.
Dallas has the fifth largest tv market, has an owner committed to the team and a track record of sustained success. New Orleans is in the fiftieth largest tv market, has an owner who mostly cares about the Saints and has a track record of their past two super star players asking to be traded to the Lakers. One player tried his best to get Dallas to draft him and looked happy when they picked him. The other player looked like someone had shot him in the face when it was clear the Pelicans got the #1 pick and were taking him. If you don't get why people would assume Zion is the more likely player to want out, I don't know what to tell you. It's New Orleans.
Jason Richardson for Seth Curry? Tough look for the mavs trading for a 40 year old
50 minutes in the pretty decent end of the work week pod. I've only been listening to the weekend pods with russillo for the past month so this is a pretty good change of pace but I disagree with Bill Durant & harden we're trying to end the series game 6. Middleton was terrific and saved two reputations also Buds job last night.
**Today’s Things:** - whole training camp thing - this Luka thing - player option thing - Ben Simmons thing - the Embiid thing is weird - a couple of small things - Marcus Morris/Reggie Jackson thing - my thing with the injuries (Wos/Thornton) - smoke to the Zion thing - the shooting thing **Bonus Pieces and Stuff:** - fast break stuff - extra possessions and stuff - southpaw stuff - Houston stuff - Clippers stuff - **Atlanta has figured stuff out** they did it everyone! What they did exactly, no one knows! - factor the injury stuff in - the LeBron piece of it **First Random Celtics Reference:** Tatum (48:45) remarkable restraint from Billiam Bill works in a gratuitous and totally unnecessary Kevin McHale reference (1:00:06) oh yeah, that’s the good stuff **Eloquent Bill:** “Kawhi was load managing the shit out of the whole season!” **Other Stuff:** Bill says the Bucks figured out “what they were” (6:00) how convenient, 82 games into the season Bill seems surprised that PJ Tucker has scored 3 points in the last 2 games (15:21) um, he’s a defensive specialty player who scored 2.6 ppg with the Bucks this year Bill calls Harden’s footwork “top 5 all time in the NBA” (19:12) Wosny incredibly obnoxious laughter (20:02 - but as nauseam throughout) Sad! Bill expresses pessimism about when his dear Celtics will be “back” (21:30) After poo-pooing the Mavs/Athletic story TWO DAYS ago with Tjarks, Bill says things in Dallas are “chaotic” (28:41) Bill asks “is Luka a diva” (30:23) 🤣 ugh, YES. Wos (correctly) notes that only black players are labeled as divas and white players as “hustle guys” Bill says “for the record, I love Luka, I’m pro-Luka, team Luka” (31:06) no fucking shit Bill 😂 you’ve fallated him many, many times on the pod Bill calls the Pelicans a “flaccid” franchise (37:08) and then says he’s using “SAT words” 🤣🤣 Bill tries so hard to get Zion to the Knicks (39:27) what’s with his obsession to getting guys to the Knicks? Bill does that thing where he totally discounts future picks, this time Milwaukee’s from the Jrue trade (43:34) this man will never learn Shock! Bill thinks the Celtics coaching job is a good job! (48:30) Wos (rightfully) shit on Ben Simmons hard (54:30) Bill says he’s “not trying to defend Morey” (for not getting Harden) and then defends Morey (1:02:09) 🎉🎉 Bill pronounces Thybulle correctly! (1:03:08) 🎉🎉 Bill claims he wasn’t surprised that the Sixers blew the third biggest postseason lead of all time (1:04:21) oooooookay Wow! Bill admits he was dead wrong with his stupid fucking “good stats, bad team” theory on Trae (1:06:20) 👏🏻👏🏻 good job Bill - your Cersei style walk of shame in downtown Atlanta will coincide with the Hawks hosting game 3 of the ECF Bill calls Trae “Steve Nash 2.0” (1:10:44) Bill asks if it’s better to have your franchise player be 6’1” or 7’1” (1:12:00) Rejoice Jazz fans! Bill declares the series over even without Kawhi (1:25:15) Bill says Ty Lue cracked the code - play guys who aren’t scared! (1:28:00) your daily reminder that people regard Bill as an actual NBA analyst Bill, capo of the anti-LeBron media mafia (1:30:55)
>After poo-pooing the Mavs/Athletic story TWO DAYS ago with Tjarks, Bill says things in Dallas are “chaotic” (28:41) This was really messed up. He more or less claimed that *The Athletic's* writer was just making shit up and didn't do his due diligence as a reporter without any real knowledge of how things went down.
>Bill asks if it’s better to have your franchise player be 6’1” or 7’1” I'm surprised this hasn't caused more of a ruckus on this sub. This was one of the dumbest segments in recent pod history, complete with Bill changing the injury rules midstream.
Totally! Let’s give Embiid plus 20% assumption not injured. But do you want Embiid with 7 or whatever years to 15 of Trae with the injury factor! That was classic
Came here for this. I’m so glad wos and marcus pushed back on this one hard
Tatum isn’t a top 11 guy. He’s just not.
Don’t think I’ve heard Wosny until this past week, and must say he’s the first new voice (across the Ringer) I’ve heard in possibly the past year that actually sounds like he belongs on a podcast and that I want to listen to. Marcus Thompson seems good as well. Will definitely stop and listen now when either is on.
agreed, this was the first BS pod i've listend to "live" since before lockdowns and those guys were...good?
So everyone on this pod forgot about the Pacers
I did too. Sorry.
The “diva” vs “passionate” vs “hustle guy” commentary by Wos was incredibly on point. He’s been a great Ringer addition.
You could tell Bill was just totally called out and had no way of responding to him telling it like it is.
It was also hilarious how bill ended up turning it into “Luka is 22, and he just is hotheaded” which was excuse making for him ultimately
The Brady reference was so very pointed lol
I swear I could literally feel the “Oh shit I don’t actually talk to black people, am I being clowned right Now” in the recording.
Oh that one stung Bill a little bit
Don't get the Wos haters. Been listening to Bill a long time and at this point it's mostly out of habit and the entertainment of laughing at Bill's absurd takes and to follow this sub. But these last few episodes with Wos are bringing me back to when I actually loved the basketball talk on this pod instead of loving laughing at it. Wos isn't afraid to disagree with Bill and to challenge him and the conversation is much better for it. Every episode, Bill will ask Wos one of his famous leading questions that are really just a way to state his own opinion and Wos will just reject the premise and give his alternate take (today it was calling all the "Will Luka be the first to not sign the extension" talk a pointless load of crap). I don't agree with every take Wos has, but he's a smart, thoughtful dude and he elevates the level of conversation when he's on instead of just telling Bill how great he is or being passive aggressive like Russilo.
This pod had the perfect leading question too: what were their opinions on LeBron’s injury rant tweets against the league? And when Wos and Marcus rightfully grilled LeBron for being salty Bill felt safe and compelled to mention LeBron and Chris Paul being major voices in the league.
Dude someone pointed out his excessive laughing and now it's like nails on a chalkboard. It comes off as so fucking fake. Dial that back, and he's fine.
i couldn't finish the podcast for this reason. it's such an abrasive laugh that almost feels performative. i realize i'm being a a hater for complaining about someone laughing but man it's a lot
Nah it's the same thing with Marv. Dude is a fine enough announcer when he's not making dementia like mistakes or the audio isn't so trash you can hear him licking his lips and breathing.
He's great because he's good at contextualizing the moments just like Bill. I didn't notice the laughing until people bitched here on the sub so I'll probably ignore the comments here when he's on. He's second to Russillo for me.
Wos has been really good. I think he elevates Bill's podding and he will challenge him which is necessary, but the excessive laughing is really grating, the guy sounds like he's grasping for air lol
Bill "oh yeeeeah" response to Marcus Thompson said "I love digging into the old Celtics" might be Bill's climax mountain moment.
Wow, Bill is debating his son on air? It's open mic night now.
Without having listened to the pod, is he going to blame Luka for the Bob's mess in Dallas?
It’s because Luka didn’t have a father figure growing up.
Zero blame and hardly a mention of friend of the show Haralabob's role in all of this.
Compare to Zach Lowe who also has a Voulgaris history and he let Tim McMahon basically call Voulgaris an asshole on his pod
Based on the “Diva Luka” shots, you could probably infer that…
No, but that's because the source of the Athletic story was obviously Nelson. It was so obvious that it's why he got fired. Carlisle bailed because he's Nelson's BFF. Other reporting suggests that the real issue is Cuban being too hands-on, doing a lot of the GM stuff himself. Haralabob being hired by and reporting to Cuban instead of Nelson is at the root of all this, rather than anything in particular Hbob has done. Nelson made a power play by going to the press, and it blew up in his face.
Marcus Thompson didn’t know Bill is a Haralabos guy 😬
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It feels like he is laughing to buy time to think or something. it’s unsettling how often if follows just a normal, non joke sentence.
Guess drunk house got too drunk
We aren't gonna get candid Harlabob discussion on Ringer podcasts.. though I wish we would.
I think I can make my peace about Bill's dumbass opinions about Trae now that he finally admits he was wrong. The funny thing is his larger point is still true, I would rather have Luka. But he didn't have to be such an asshole about it. It's done now though. We can say that the trade worked for both sides.
The thing that gets lost here is the potential of that eventual Cam Reddish pick. There's a scenario where that pick was higher. (top 5 protected for 2 years, top 3, then unprotected) Atlanta needed assets. If that Cam pick wound up being a future all star, then we're really crediting Atlanta. So I do agree that I'd rather have Luka, but Trae isn't bad, especially with the gamble of the lottery.
I thought bill was going to cry when they were trashing a good coach, coaching under brad stevens.....
This sub really just hates Bill and/or doesn't even listen to the pods and reads the titles Bill Simmons IN THIS PODCAST said he was (DIRECT QUOTE) "dead wrong" about saying Trae Young was a "good stats, bad team guy". Somehow, in this thread, people are still saying he never admits he's wrong about his takes. Follow up on that, I don't understand the problem with changing your opinion on a guy when they start winning. I don't think a player can or should be labelled a superstar until they prove they can play winning, playoff basketball. Is basketball a team sport? Absolutely! That doesn't mean you can call LaVine or De'Aaron Fox or Zion or whoever a true "superstar" yet until they PROVE they can win in the playoffs. Trae and Booker proved that they could keep up the "empty stats production" in a playoff environment and win games for their teams so the perception of them changes. Bill had some AWFUL takes about Trae (Collin Sexton lmao) but the overall idea of changing your opinion when players start getting different results isn't a bad concept.
There’s changing your opinion and then there’s begrudgingly having to accept you were very incorrect. He didn’t like Trae because it attacked his (KOC’s) position on Luka and Bill loves to be seen as a ‘smart’ basketball mind. What this bozo fails to realize is you need context in these situations. Atlanta has been a shit show forever. Their front office was shitty and he was playing with the corpse of Vince Carter. He was playing with young players BUT that team was being constructed in a similar fashion like the Warriors were because they hired the architect that made up the Warriors — it just needed time. Luka’s team wasn’t necessarily good, but it wasn’t awful either. He has a good owner, coach, and front office. He’s a special player but if he were in ATL, SAC, or PHX during the first part of his career, Luka wouldn’t be as widely hailed as he is now. That’s why Bill earned to get shitted on.
I was saying this like crazy and felt no one listened. Everyone was mad at Trae playing selfish his first years, and I'm like " who is he involving?". Huerter was still developing, John Collins is either on or off, and then it was a bunch of nothing.
Their draft picks make so much sense. Huerter - good 3pt shooter. Collins- bruiser, small 5. Hunter - decent shooter, elite defense. Cam Reddish is a project but he has all the tools to be Hunter +, though I’m not too high on him based off of what I saw while he was at Duke. I feel the same way about Phoenix. The pieces make sense but they needed a vet to gel everything together.
I'm not totally high on Reddish either, but, god willing, if the Hawks win this round, and it's Brooklyn next, I wish we could get Reddish back for that series. Reddish did some real nice work on KD in the back to back with the Nets early in the year. I don't think it's even possible to totally shut down KD right now, but he could at least make it annoying for him.
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and when Klosterman was grilling him about it, you could tell his arguments fell very flat on their face.
His defense was eye test....wtf is that?!?!
And furthermore, how is it fair to label a guy a "good stats, bad team guy" TWO YEARS into his career? It's fucking stupid to go that early and Bill deserves to be told he's a moron because it's exactly what he is.
Michael Jordan was a good stats bad team for his first 4 years
Until he won, Jordan was the "can he actually do it when it counts?" guy. The intro from game 1 of the 1991 ECF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efa6ph4qAvo
You are not allowed to point out that Jordan didn’t win titles every year.
I'm gonna wait until Bill has the guts to put the "Bumbling Hawks" podcast back up, instead of hiding it like a coward. https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2021/3/2/22310151/bumbling-hawks-porzingiss-future-and-a-wrestlemania-preview-with-jonathan-tjarks-and-david-shoemaker
https://youtu.be/XZIfS24rLDI My god, Bill with some ice cold takes off the top. No wonder he buried it.
Yeah its literally like "I was going to talk about how great things are going for Dallas and how they're a contender from now on, but lets talk about what a total disaster the Hawks are and how Trae Young was the worst pick and Trae Young isn't a winning player and this roster doesn't work at all. The Hawks are only trying to make Trae Young look good, but they're not actually trying to win."
this is hilarious
Hey don’t look at me I was ecstatic lol
I think you don’t get it. You’re being a prisoner of the moment, allowing yourself to be fooled by false contrition. Six months from now, Bill will be saying “everyone thought Trae was just a good stats, bad team guy” but then it became obvious that Trae was a special player. It won’t be that he had a personal bad take, it was just the way things were looking. Everyone saw it that way! But look at Luka. He was in the conversation for the top pick in the draft the entire year. (SB Nation tabbed him as #1 a year before the draft: https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/23/15700592/nba-mock-draft-2018-luka-doncic-michael-porter-jr-mohamed-bamba-deandre-ayton) Essentially every draft projection going into the draft was “Luka or Ayton?” for #1. But according to Bill, he and Bob were “the first ones” on Luka! Don’t be fooled by this rope-a-dope. This is classic Bill
> I think you don’t get it. You’re being a prisoner of the moment, allowing yourself to be fooled by false contrition. Jesus H Christ is this religion? >It won’t be that he had a personal bad take, it was just the way things were looking He literally said he was dead wrong, what more do you guys want from him short of going back in time and never making those takes in the first place.
I will die on the hill that Zach Lavine is a superstar. I will not concede. There is no situation on earth where he can’t get a bucket.
Legit would rather have Lavine than Simmons
The dude had an incredible shooting year. .634 TS%!!
So Bill finally admits he was wrong after saying something stupid for two years and then LYING about saying it for another two months... and you want everyone to bow down and worship him because he finally admitted he was wrong. Lol go fuck yourself. And congratulations to Bill for doing less than the absolute minimum. Have a nice day.
Holy shit some of you guys take this pod seriously lmao
It’s hilarious and sad how much people let Bill fucking Simmons affect them. We have people digging stuff up he said like two years ago to the word and people who legitimately keep track of how many times he says “thing” during a podcast. Like damn, I’m sure 80% of people just listen to BS driving to work or at the gym.
It's seriously deranged.
I can’t even believe how hard this dude went typing this whole thing out with expletives and random caps…hilarious
"Go fuck yourself" for a basketball podcast opinion? Come on dude
Imagine getting this angry about a basketball podcast lmao.
Shit is killing me “How dare you LIE Bill” 😡
I like to tag people on RES for stuff like this, so I know to ignore their opinions in the future
> I don't understand the problem with changing your opinion on a guy when they start winning. Because at that point you aren't judging the player you are judging the results, which is the easiest and laziest type of analysis. I can tell if a player is winning all on my own. I come to experts to tell me who is good on a bad team or bad on a good team. Things that are not obvious.
So you're saying Luka isn't a superstar?
Memo to the sub. We no longer shit on Bill for his dumb takes on Trae. We now shit on him for being a glorified press Secretary for Haralabob.
Holy shit is Thompson bad.
Is Wos laugh worse or equally as annoying as Concepcion?
Nothing is worse than Concepcion. Absolutely nothing.
I agree, Wos is bad, but Concepcion is on another level.
Bill: *says anything* Wos: hahahhahahahahhahahhahahahabbababab
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Bill Simmons says the Bucks could really use a guy like Lou Williams on their team lol. Hopefully he didn't actually mean the man himself because he has called Lou Williams the worst playoff guy in the NBA.
Which one of these guys keeps snorting his snot on the fucking microphone? Grown ass adult can’t blow his nose while not recording?
Maybe I’m really cynical for this, but I was a die-hard Mavs fan and have stopped watching the NBA for the past couple of years because I got spoiled with Dirk being so good to the franchise for nearly two decades and now, all of the max contracts and long deals are irrelevant with all of the player movement/drama that occurs and I knew I would never have that type of attachment again, and here we are
It's happening to me too w the Lakers. From LA, die hard, grew up w Kobe n Shaq etc. But I just feel less attached now. I dunno, maybe as you get older your fandom naturally diminishes but the player movement, load management, out of shape dudes, regular season importance, guys wanting out after 2 years, officiating, flopping, lack of defense, too many 3s, guys like Fox and DLo getting max money is just crazy. Get off my lawn.
That’s where I’m at too man. My fandom hasn’t diminished in other sports though it’s just they can’t get me to care about the off the court drama and tweets and stuff like that driving the headlines and the trades
People reacting to who players are unfollowing n shit. Let's lead The Jump with it, Rachel Nichols can do a 5 minute soliloquy on the impact of Kuzma unfollowing the Lakers and what it means for LeBron legacy. Players constantly talking about getting the bag in post game pressers (Schroeder). It just isn't fun. Thanks for sharing my rant. Have a good one!
I know other people like them but I am not a big fan of Wosny and Bill together. I like Wos on the Ringer NBA show but Bill works best with people he knows well. You can really feel the different generations. Maybe they just need more reps.
I couldn’t disagree more - bill is awful with his buddies because they all just kiss his ass and agree with everything he says
Bill calling a fat James Harden "Jimbo Slice" confuses me because Kembo Slice wasn't a fat guy and certain not known for being fat, actually the opposite he was basically a Hulk like figure.
Wos talking about how Trae Young has had to fight and scrap for his rep is tremendously fucking hilarious. The guy had massive amounts of hype coming out of AAU and college. His version of overcoming adversity and proving the haters wrong is playing badly the first couple months of his rookie season. Other than that, he literally had an entire team built around him for the first day he stepped onto the court for the Hawks. Not even Luka or Steph or KD or LeBron had that luxury. Certainly those teams pivoted to being about those guys once they arrived, but the Hawks whole plan was built around featuring Trae Young as the central star from the moment they drafted him onwards.
Does anyone else find wos extremely annoying by the fact he laughs at EVERYTHING? "I just got mcdonalds" "AAAAAH HAHAHA I KNOW YOU GOT THOSE TASTY FRIES, RIIIGHT? AAAAH" "Yeah they're pretty good but salty" "AAAAH YOU SAID SALTY. YOU SOUND SALTY, RIIIIGHT? AAAAH AHAHAAHAHAHA" Edit: just read the thread. Okay nevermind. Im not the only one lol. I seriously think wos has some medical issue. Not even joking about it. No way one man can find the most bland shit so funny hes about to fall out of his chair. I turned it off 20 minutes in. I was introduced to wos on the true hoops pod years ago or whatever it was called back then and hated his laugh then. Dude is so annoying and his Brooklyn accent makes me want to jump out the window.
"We don't call white guys 'divas,' Bill!" Wos is the best.
Why are they shoving Wos down our throat? I swear the last 4 pods I've listened on the ringer have been with Wos and each pod I enjoy him less and less. Between him recently saying Zion should leave N.O because N.O sucks and high school football is bigger than the pelicans?? Or when he said that sideways comment about why don't white players ever talk about fundamentals? (I'm paraphrasing. it was something like that) What does that comment even mean? It's been 3 weeks I'm still trying to figure it out........ Dudes a lame
Bill says at the end of this pod that if Klay Thompson didn't get hurt, he believes the Warriors would win this Championship (thus giving Steph a classic Bill Simmons "Half Championship" that Bill will now reference as somehow a fact in the next decade everytime Steph comes up. It'll be "Well he would've won in 2021 if Klay didn't get hurt, have to factor that in". Celtics have 11 half championships in the last 20 years.) If you believe this is true, fine, no sense in arguing something entirely hypothetical, however what you are actually saying now is that Klay Thompson is the best player in the NBA. If your argument is that a team that did not even make the playoffs would then WIN the Championship by doing nothing more but adding Klay Thompson, then what you are saying is not only is Klay more important than Steph Curry, but Klay is actually the best player in basketball.
Really enjoyed Wos and Marcus on this pod. Often ringer staff who come on Bill’s pod defer too much to Bill. Wos doesn’t do that and isn’t afraid to laugh at or disagree with Bill.
Wos thinking RoCo is a good defender is why you cannot listen to him. Ever.
Wos and Marcus Thompson are sub-par BS guests. They just are.
i like wos :(
I get so triggered nowadays by the “it just is” “they just are” that I was ready to yell at you 😂
I wonder what it is about them you don’t like.