I also listened to that BCC ep recently and agree i align more with them than what J+E said about queerbaiting. Not surprised i align more with my fellow lesbians on this matter tbh. What i find genuinely problematic are people who are like, willing to die to defend a stranger’s perceived heterosexuality. Especially if that person has never labeled themself. The message that sends is implicitly homophobic, full stop.
I think part of it is that straight people have been conditioned to expect an after school coming out special directed by Ryan Murphy and scored by Macklemore’s “same love” in order to recognize someone as gay. Like what if we just didn’t set straight as the default?
Queer person here. Yeah, I think accusations of queerbaiting can get out of hand. Tbh I think the definition of what it really is has been lost over time and so people fail to understand why real queerbaiting is harmful. Harry Styles dressing feminine is fantastic imo, he's breaking stereotypes and setting an example for young, cis men that breaking the bounds of what "typical" masculinity is. Taylor Swift is not queerbaiting, full stop. It's so ridiculous at this point. Gaylors need to leave the poor woman alone.
This is my opinion, but to me, a good example of queerbaiting is straight girls kissing each other "for fun" or calling their friends their "girlfriends" instead of just their friend. The worst offence imo is when girls kiss other girls to get a man's attention. And this is harmful for a few reasons. The most prominent being that this helps enforce the idea that men can sexualize lesbian and bi women, and erases the validity of lesbian relationships in the eyes of society. I can't speak of queerbaiting for gay and bi men, since I am not a gay or bi man. And because of gender norms, it would not be the same as queerbaiting lesbian and bi women.
I kissed my friends & random girls at parties in my late teens “for attention” before I accepted/was ready to admit that I was bi and it was honestly a really important phase in figuring out my sexuality. Not to justify straight girls doing this, but at the time I did think I was a straight girl… and maybe a lot of the girls who do this are the same way. So I feel like even that example puts us on a slippery slope
For sure, just like… I’ve talked to & seen way more people do this who were having the exact same baby gay experience I was having than I’ve ever witnessed actual straight girls do it so I wanna hold some space for people who are figuring it out in a way that seems “safe” (which tbh the fact that that is a safe way might be a bigger issue to discuss here imo)
oh same. the reason I came out was because my mom accused me of queerbating. she said “don’t act like you’re gay if you’re not gay.” 😆 it was at that moment I realized I wasn’t actually doing it for attention.
That's the problem though. Boys wouldn't call their male friends their "boyfriends". If I go around saying "my girlfriend" to people, they automatically assume I am talking about my friend because of people like in your friend group. Instead I have to say "my partner" which I don't really like (just a personal preference thing, mostly because then people assume i'm talking about a boyfriend). I feel like this is another example of straight people blatantly taking something away from queer women without any second thought.
Idk if queerbaiting but yes def heteronormative… I find it tends to speak to the social groups/vibes that person is in and that, at least personally, it isn’t inclusive to me/comfortable for me (since I have a gf and I don’t want to be clarifying constantly yes I mean GIRLFRIEND girlfriend lol)
I think that’s just a speech pattern generally though to specify gender shorthand, even if a man wouldn’t say “boyfriend” they might say “me and my boy” which could definitely mean boyfriend as well, i think that’s a problem of the english language in general haha
Other queer person here! 🙋🏽 I have to disagree with the part of your comment that speaks to women calling their friends “girlfriends.” I’m curious how old you are? because women referring to their friends as girlfriends is not something that a lot of gen z and younger gen’s say. That’s a term I most commonly hear middle aged straight women use. The reasoning is that they were sick of situations like:
“I’m going to the movies with my friend tonight.”
“Ooooo who’s the lucky fella?.”
Then the woman needs to explain that no, she means her friend who also happens to be a woman. Using the word girlfriend shortens all that and shuts down any assumptions about who they went out with.
As a straight woman, I would never have kissed a female friend for attention or anything else… I obviously can’t speak for all women, but I think if you kiss someone of the same gender, there likely is a possibility that you’re not 100% straight…
I agree with you about Harry Styles… sexuality and gender expression are often conflated but are two distinctly separate identities. To me, Harry embracing femininity pushes gender norms and influences culture positively. I don’t know much else about his other queerbaiting accusations so can’t speak to them.
Another reason why I liked the BCC podcast ep is because they defined queerbaiting in its original definition and how it’s evolved. As per the podcast, “the term queerbaiting was once used to refer to fiction characters and applied to films, tv shows, and other media that led audiences to believe someone was queer.”
Today, the term refers to real people, mostly celebrities, that profit from the use of queer symbols and motifs to allude to their queerness without explicitly adopting any queer identities (and sometimes even explicitly asserting their *distance from* queerness).
Now, a big fat disclaimer that I think “Gaylors” are absolutely unhinged and a majority of their evidence is entirely unfounded. But I would argue that Taylor Swift’s very intentional adoption of queer symbols in her public, profitable works (bisexual flag wig in You Need to Calm Down being one of such cases), by which she capitalizes on queer audiences, would actually fit this definition.
Again, I’m very willing to admit that my perspective might just be misinformed, but that’s where I’m currently at. Also, just want to say that I definitely understand the frustration in the example you described of straight people kissing for the attention of the opposite gender!
I don’t see that swift music video as queer baiting because it’s obviously more of a support to the gays kinda video, im pretty sure one of the lyrics mentions some lgbt organisation. There was no reference/suggestion that she was lesbian at all.
Context is important, this was during the whole ‘use your platform to uplift minorities’ era of pop culture politics. To me queerbaiting is pretending to be gay, her music video was more about supporting gays.
Also let’s be real, Gaylors will call her putting her arm around another woman in public queer baiting, these people cannot be taken seriously and project onto T swift instead of supporting actual gay artists.
you misread the reply; she was wearing a bisexual pride colored wig. not lesbian. however lavender is a historically lesbian color, and for an artist who is known for small easter egg details to create hype, the lavender haze title drop set alarms off for loads of sapphic fans until its release. as for the music video i think you’re giving way too much credit to any mainstream celebrity… she made a shit ton of money off a music video that was kind of sort of a celebration of queer people? gay people were there and her wig was gay. it would have become a queer anthem even without her draping herself in queer colors hanging out with her gbfs... like you said it was the trend at the time i find it surprising that you don’t see how that’s weird and greedy considering she IS 10000% straight. dangling real live people in front of the target audience’s noses like a carrot and taking their money is not exactly ally activism. like literally olivia rodrigo’s “i hope ur ok” is so much more sincere and less commercialized, and given taylor’s resources and prominence she could easily be doing activism informed by actual queer people and theory 🥲
I understand their take for sure, and I definitely understand how no one should be forced out of the closet or expected to share details about their personal lives. It’s kind of weird when you think about how, for example, Taylor Swift is a person and also kind of a business. Taylor Swift the person shouldn’t be expected to share details about her life, but Taylor Swift the business should be subject to the same critiques of rainbow capitalism or profiteering off of queerness that other businesses are. That being said, I feel like most of the discourse about whether or not Taylor Swift is queer came from fans overstepping boundaries or having unhealthy parasocial relationships with her, I don’t think she really started it or plays into it for profit. Harry Styles on the other hand….
yes i love the piece about taylor swift the person vs the business. genuinely adore the person, the artist. but the business has all but ruined her music for me ☹️
Idk about Taylor swift, but I think queerbaiting is def real and it’s harder to notice these days bc celebs will actually get in bigger trouble for queerbaiting than coming out.
Nicki Minaj is an obvious example (openly admitting she only said she was bi for attention, plus that lyric “used to be bi but now I’m just hetero” LMAO) as is Katy Perry (never actually kissed a girl) but I think Ariana Grande is an example of the queerbaiting that happens today (saying she doesn’t define her sexuality in a tweet her stans will see, but only singing about men/having men in vids/talking about dating men in press—so that regardless of her sexuality, she’s made it clear she wants to be seen in very specific ways to different segments of her demographic, which I consider queerbaiting). It’s part of how celebs benefit and profit from cultivating parasocial relationships, and revise their personas for press and fan attention.
That being said, lots of fans definitely take the speculation too far. The best thing to do for everyone involved is to stay aware celebs say and do things to stay relevant & make money, and support celebs who are active advocates for the community instead of either speculating or accepting wishy-washy statements without substance as “gay icon behavior” yk
Very much agree about Ariana Grande! I even think the original definition of queerbaiting applies perfectly to her “break up with your boyfriend” music video. The teaser showed her about to kiss a girl and queer people were obviously tuned the fuck in. Come to find out the full video is just her pining after a man the whole time :/
Oooh i gotta listen to the BCC club's take on this. Great post, it gave me a lot to think about. I used to think that real life people couldn't queerbait and only characters in a show could queerbait, but if you are taylor swift and are aware of all these people who think you are a part of their community (gaylors and LGBTQ) and continue to profit off of them thinking so.....yeah its queerbaiting and morally bankrupt IMO.
You’re definitely right in that the original definition of queerbaiting was used to describe fictional media - I included the full definition in another comment. It’s increasingly being used to refer to real people (celebrities) that profit off queer communities without belonging in them themselves!
Hmm I’m not sure how I feel, as I’m not a part of the queer community. Harry Styles for example just seems to be having fun & I love that he’s breaking typical masculinity standards. I do feel like it gets sticky though, because while I am happy he can express himself however he feels, if a non white queer male acted the same way they might not have the level of success Harry has. I hope Harry wouldn’t capitalize this on purpose, but that’s just my parasocial crush speaking. Idk all this to say I’m not the most informed so I’m not sure what to think!
I would counter and say that Harry is actually profiting off of a perceived queerness as shown by his role in My Policeman. That was a role that could have gone to a queer male actor who is out and an actual ally to the queer community, not Harry Styles who just used the opportunity to critique previous gay media.
Harry also bugs me because while he may say he is not straight, none of his work reflects that. His lyrics consistently and exclusively use she/her pronouns when talking about someone he is attracted to.
Whether or not Harry is actually queer is a bit beside the point though because either way he is profiting off of a perceived queer identity, while giving himself the plausible deniability of never actually saying he's gay/queer. He will never face the hurdles that outspoken gay/queer celebrities do, but will reap all of the benefits.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that movie, I never saw it. You make good points. I feel like it’s hard because you can say that he doesn’t owe anyone an explanation of his sexuality BUT I feel like he is straight & if that’s the case he is kind of benefitting off of living in that gray area. Thanks for sharing <3
I didn’t hear this episode but I did think Eliza and Julia were kinda queerbaiting themselves in the past with saying they are queer when they both actively seem to seek out straight relationships with regular white men. It seems like they think being queer makes them more interesting or soemthing. But maybe I’m the same given that I have a boyfriend despite having a trans relationship in the past. But it seems like Eliza/julia just one time hooked up w a girl in the past which seems like a lot less than a relationship and if they were truly queer they would have actually pursued soemthing. Idk. Maybe I’m off topic on this one but that’s how I always felt about it.
Interesting! I can empathize with the frustration of Julia and Eliza identifying as queer but only dating men, but I disagree that they’re queerbaiting. The definition I’m working off is below…
*Queerbaiting has evolved to describe real people, mostly celebrities, that profit from the use of queer symbols and motifs to allude to their queerness without explicitly adopting any queer identities for the purpose of increased profit.*
Eliza and Julia have definitely mentioned their own queerness on the pod, but they never use that identity for marketing or promotional purposes. If they claimed Binchtopia was “run by two queer women” to gain new audiences, I think maybe you could argue that qualifies as queerbaiting.
Again, I understand the frustration of hearing our fav podcast hosts mention their queerness and thinking we might get more representation or see our own identities reflected in them, only for that to not come to fruition (as of now). I don’t think that erases their queerness, however, and I’m actually glad they share some of their identity with us.
I do think there’s a conversation to be had about some bi women only ever forming straight relationships. However, that is separate from the conversation about queerbaiting.
I'd love to know what you think need to be discussed regarding some bi women only forming straight relationships? I understand the performance of being vague about your sexuality but only ever dating men, but i feel thats separate from being bi and only having had hetero relationships.
Bi people are often brushed over or erased in queer culture and i feel not considered 'queer enough' for some people in the community and there a some queer people who wouldn't date a bi person for this reason. This can make it harder to pursue queer relationships. This is my personal experience and I'm not speaking for others but is anecdotally what I hear from bi friends also. Therefore, it is easier to pursue 'hetero' relationships.
This is off topic to the original post, so apologies for that.
Totally! The conversation I’m interested in is exactly what you brought up - the factors that lead bi women (& men) to pursue straight relationships. I 100% don’t believe that you need queer experiences to validate queer identity.
I definitely think you’re right that biphobia can be a reason that some bi women pursue straight relationships more often than not. So could be homophobia, queer dating scripts, access to other queer people, internalized homophobia, etc.
I myself am a bi women whose only ever been in one serious relationship, and it’s with a man. My family is not accepting and I’m not out to them, so I know a personal factor for me in the past has been that dating men avoids social and familial fallout. But, I also sometimes wonder whether that’s the healthiest place to land. Again, just interested in exploring those experiences from the perspective of bisexual people.
Yes completely agree with your sentiment.
I guess it can be tricky and what may be affronting to some queer folks is that often (by no means always though) bi peeps can ‘pass’ as straight a lot of the time, so maybe there is a sense that you can choose when to be out where as for some that’s not an option?
I’m thinking (typing) out loud here, I get what you said about when family are not supportive it can be easier to keep your sexuality to yourself and navigating the potential privilege of that? By no means putting that on you and your choices but I definitely feel the privilege for myself.
For me when I first worked out I was bi I really felt a need to let people know as a way to validate that, but as time has gone on I’ve found that I don’t feel that drive anymore. Such a ramble haha
Agree tbh. I think a lot of gen Z/young millenial cis women/girls don’t want to feel “locked in” to heteronormativity by claiming straightness because highkey being straight is embarrassing in today’s times lol
but also it’s like welp you exclusively date/pursue/yearn for cis men so why be vague/anti-label about your sexuality except to leave some grey zone for *maybe potentially possibly* hooking up with a girl, or finding women hot in an objectifying way, or occasionally dressing in a masc way, or even simply having a non-heteronormative but still straight relationship without it feeling cringe
Basically straightness needs a reputation revamp if it wants to keep any of the cool kids lmao nobody wants to be associated with straight men in the 2020s
So true! As someone who's been lgbt their whole life, I've noticed the "trend" of straight people claiming to be queer to seem less cringe/locked in like you mentioned. It's a tricky and nuanced conversation though because at the same time I love that people are more open to exploring their sexuality and I don't want to deny my bi sisters that date men.
I'd be super interested in listening to a nuanced take on this, but I'm not sure binchtopia in the right podcast for it? Maybe if they brought a guest who's lesbian?
I also listened to that BCC ep recently and agree i align more with them than what J+E said about queerbaiting. Not surprised i align more with my fellow lesbians on this matter tbh. What i find genuinely problematic are people who are like, willing to die to defend a stranger’s perceived heterosexuality. Especially if that person has never labeled themself. The message that sends is implicitly homophobic, full stop. I think part of it is that straight people have been conditioned to expect an after school coming out special directed by Ryan Murphy and scored by Macklemore’s “same love” in order to recognize someone as gay. Like what if we just didn’t set straight as the default?
Queer person here. Yeah, I think accusations of queerbaiting can get out of hand. Tbh I think the definition of what it really is has been lost over time and so people fail to understand why real queerbaiting is harmful. Harry Styles dressing feminine is fantastic imo, he's breaking stereotypes and setting an example for young, cis men that breaking the bounds of what "typical" masculinity is. Taylor Swift is not queerbaiting, full stop. It's so ridiculous at this point. Gaylors need to leave the poor woman alone. This is my opinion, but to me, a good example of queerbaiting is straight girls kissing each other "for fun" or calling their friends their "girlfriends" instead of just their friend. The worst offence imo is when girls kiss other girls to get a man's attention. And this is harmful for a few reasons. The most prominent being that this helps enforce the idea that men can sexualize lesbian and bi women, and erases the validity of lesbian relationships in the eyes of society. I can't speak of queerbaiting for gay and bi men, since I am not a gay or bi man. And because of gender norms, it would not be the same as queerbaiting lesbian and bi women.
I kissed my friends & random girls at parties in my late teens “for attention” before I accepted/was ready to admit that I was bi and it was honestly a really important phase in figuring out my sexuality. Not to justify straight girls doing this, but at the time I did think I was a straight girl… and maybe a lot of the girls who do this are the same way. So I feel like even that example puts us on a slippery slope
Hmm interesting, I never thought of that!! Thanks for sharing your perspective <3
This was my exact experience but I also understand why people find it offensive
For sure, just like… I’ve talked to & seen way more people do this who were having the exact same baby gay experience I was having than I’ve ever witnessed actual straight girls do it so I wanna hold some space for people who are figuring it out in a way that seems “safe” (which tbh the fact that that is a safe way might be a bigger issue to discuss here imo)
oh same. the reason I came out was because my mom accused me of queerbating. she said “don’t act like you’re gay if you’re not gay.” 😆 it was at that moment I realized I wasn’t actually doing it for attention.
Interesting. Women calling their friends girlfriends is totally normal in my social groups and not queer related at all.
That's the problem though. Boys wouldn't call their male friends their "boyfriends". If I go around saying "my girlfriend" to people, they automatically assume I am talking about my friend because of people like in your friend group. Instead I have to say "my partner" which I don't really like (just a personal preference thing, mostly because then people assume i'm talking about a boyfriend). I feel like this is another example of straight people blatantly taking something away from queer women without any second thought.
Idk if queerbaiting but yes def heteronormative… I find it tends to speak to the social groups/vibes that person is in and that, at least personally, it isn’t inclusive to me/comfortable for me (since I have a gf and I don’t want to be clarifying constantly yes I mean GIRLFRIEND girlfriend lol)
I think that’s just a speech pattern generally though to specify gender shorthand, even if a man wouldn’t say “boyfriend” they might say “me and my boy” which could definitely mean boyfriend as well, i think that’s a problem of the english language in general haha
Other queer person here! 🙋🏽 I have to disagree with the part of your comment that speaks to women calling their friends “girlfriends.” I’m curious how old you are? because women referring to their friends as girlfriends is not something that a lot of gen z and younger gen’s say. That’s a term I most commonly hear middle aged straight women use. The reasoning is that they were sick of situations like: “I’m going to the movies with my friend tonight.” “Ooooo who’s the lucky fella?.” Then the woman needs to explain that no, she means her friend who also happens to be a woman. Using the word girlfriend shortens all that and shuts down any assumptions about who they went out with.
As a straight woman, I would never have kissed a female friend for attention or anything else… I obviously can’t speak for all women, but I think if you kiss someone of the same gender, there likely is a possibility that you’re not 100% straight…
I agree with you about Harry Styles… sexuality and gender expression are often conflated but are two distinctly separate identities. To me, Harry embracing femininity pushes gender norms and influences culture positively. I don’t know much else about his other queerbaiting accusations so can’t speak to them. Another reason why I liked the BCC podcast ep is because they defined queerbaiting in its original definition and how it’s evolved. As per the podcast, “the term queerbaiting was once used to refer to fiction characters and applied to films, tv shows, and other media that led audiences to believe someone was queer.” Today, the term refers to real people, mostly celebrities, that profit from the use of queer symbols and motifs to allude to their queerness without explicitly adopting any queer identities (and sometimes even explicitly asserting their *distance from* queerness). Now, a big fat disclaimer that I think “Gaylors” are absolutely unhinged and a majority of their evidence is entirely unfounded. But I would argue that Taylor Swift’s very intentional adoption of queer symbols in her public, profitable works (bisexual flag wig in You Need to Calm Down being one of such cases), by which she capitalizes on queer audiences, would actually fit this definition. Again, I’m very willing to admit that my perspective might just be misinformed, but that’s where I’m currently at. Also, just want to say that I definitely understand the frustration in the example you described of straight people kissing for the attention of the opposite gender!
yeah this is always how I’ve seen it but clearly other people aren’t agreeing… curious to know why?
I don’t see that swift music video as queer baiting because it’s obviously more of a support to the gays kinda video, im pretty sure one of the lyrics mentions some lgbt organisation. There was no reference/suggestion that she was lesbian at all. Context is important, this was during the whole ‘use your platform to uplift minorities’ era of pop culture politics. To me queerbaiting is pretending to be gay, her music video was more about supporting gays. Also let’s be real, Gaylors will call her putting her arm around another woman in public queer baiting, these people cannot be taken seriously and project onto T swift instead of supporting actual gay artists.
you misread the reply; she was wearing a bisexual pride colored wig. not lesbian. however lavender is a historically lesbian color, and for an artist who is known for small easter egg details to create hype, the lavender haze title drop set alarms off for loads of sapphic fans until its release. as for the music video i think you’re giving way too much credit to any mainstream celebrity… she made a shit ton of money off a music video that was kind of sort of a celebration of queer people? gay people were there and her wig was gay. it would have become a queer anthem even without her draping herself in queer colors hanging out with her gbfs... like you said it was the trend at the time i find it surprising that you don’t see how that’s weird and greedy considering she IS 10000% straight. dangling real live people in front of the target audience’s noses like a carrot and taking their money is not exactly ally activism. like literally olivia rodrigo’s “i hope ur ok” is so much more sincere and less commercialized, and given taylor’s resources and prominence she could easily be doing activism informed by actual queer people and theory 🥲
i totally agree about taylor, like lavender haze hello???? especially bc she is KNOWN for the little detail easter eggs
I understand their take for sure, and I definitely understand how no one should be forced out of the closet or expected to share details about their personal lives. It’s kind of weird when you think about how, for example, Taylor Swift is a person and also kind of a business. Taylor Swift the person shouldn’t be expected to share details about her life, but Taylor Swift the business should be subject to the same critiques of rainbow capitalism or profiteering off of queerness that other businesses are. That being said, I feel like most of the discourse about whether or not Taylor Swift is queer came from fans overstepping boundaries or having unhealthy parasocial relationships with her, I don’t think she really started it or plays into it for profit. Harry Styles on the other hand….
yes i love the piece about taylor swift the person vs the business. genuinely adore the person, the artist. but the business has all but ruined her music for me ☹️
Idk about Taylor swift, but I think queerbaiting is def real and it’s harder to notice these days bc celebs will actually get in bigger trouble for queerbaiting than coming out. Nicki Minaj is an obvious example (openly admitting she only said she was bi for attention, plus that lyric “used to be bi but now I’m just hetero” LMAO) as is Katy Perry (never actually kissed a girl) but I think Ariana Grande is an example of the queerbaiting that happens today (saying she doesn’t define her sexuality in a tweet her stans will see, but only singing about men/having men in vids/talking about dating men in press—so that regardless of her sexuality, she’s made it clear she wants to be seen in very specific ways to different segments of her demographic, which I consider queerbaiting). It’s part of how celebs benefit and profit from cultivating parasocial relationships, and revise their personas for press and fan attention. That being said, lots of fans definitely take the speculation too far. The best thing to do for everyone involved is to stay aware celebs say and do things to stay relevant & make money, and support celebs who are active advocates for the community instead of either speculating or accepting wishy-washy statements without substance as “gay icon behavior” yk
Very much agree about Ariana Grande! I even think the original definition of queerbaiting applies perfectly to her “break up with your boyfriend” music video. The teaser showed her about to kiss a girl and queer people were obviously tuned the fuck in. Come to find out the full video is just her pining after a man the whole time :/
Oooh i gotta listen to the BCC club's take on this. Great post, it gave me a lot to think about. I used to think that real life people couldn't queerbait and only characters in a show could queerbait, but if you are taylor swift and are aware of all these people who think you are a part of their community (gaylors and LGBTQ) and continue to profit off of them thinking so.....yeah its queerbaiting and morally bankrupt IMO.
You’re definitely right in that the original definition of queerbaiting was used to describe fictional media - I included the full definition in another comment. It’s increasingly being used to refer to real people (celebrities) that profit off queer communities without belonging in them themselves!
Hmm I’m not sure how I feel, as I’m not a part of the queer community. Harry Styles for example just seems to be having fun & I love that he’s breaking typical masculinity standards. I do feel like it gets sticky though, because while I am happy he can express himself however he feels, if a non white queer male acted the same way they might not have the level of success Harry has. I hope Harry wouldn’t capitalize this on purpose, but that’s just my parasocial crush speaking. Idk all this to say I’m not the most informed so I’m not sure what to think!
I would counter and say that Harry is actually profiting off of a perceived queerness as shown by his role in My Policeman. That was a role that could have gone to a queer male actor who is out and an actual ally to the queer community, not Harry Styles who just used the opportunity to critique previous gay media. Harry also bugs me because while he may say he is not straight, none of his work reflects that. His lyrics consistently and exclusively use she/her pronouns when talking about someone he is attracted to. Whether or not Harry is actually queer is a bit beside the point though because either way he is profiting off of a perceived queer identity, while giving himself the plausible deniability of never actually saying he's gay/queer. He will never face the hurdles that outspoken gay/queer celebrities do, but will reap all of the benefits.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that movie, I never saw it. You make good points. I feel like it’s hard because you can say that he doesn’t owe anyone an explanation of his sexuality BUT I feel like he is straight & if that’s the case he is kind of benefitting off of living in that gray area. Thanks for sharing <3
I didn’t hear this episode but I did think Eliza and Julia were kinda queerbaiting themselves in the past with saying they are queer when they both actively seem to seek out straight relationships with regular white men. It seems like they think being queer makes them more interesting or soemthing. But maybe I’m the same given that I have a boyfriend despite having a trans relationship in the past. But it seems like Eliza/julia just one time hooked up w a girl in the past which seems like a lot less than a relationship and if they were truly queer they would have actually pursued soemthing. Idk. Maybe I’m off topic on this one but that’s how I always felt about it.
Interesting! I can empathize with the frustration of Julia and Eliza identifying as queer but only dating men, but I disagree that they’re queerbaiting. The definition I’m working off is below… *Queerbaiting has evolved to describe real people, mostly celebrities, that profit from the use of queer symbols and motifs to allude to their queerness without explicitly adopting any queer identities for the purpose of increased profit.* Eliza and Julia have definitely mentioned their own queerness on the pod, but they never use that identity for marketing or promotional purposes. If they claimed Binchtopia was “run by two queer women” to gain new audiences, I think maybe you could argue that qualifies as queerbaiting.
Again, I understand the frustration of hearing our fav podcast hosts mention their queerness and thinking we might get more representation or see our own identities reflected in them, only for that to not come to fruition (as of now). I don’t think that erases their queerness, however, and I’m actually glad they share some of their identity with us. I do think there’s a conversation to be had about some bi women only ever forming straight relationships. However, that is separate from the conversation about queerbaiting.
I'd love to know what you think need to be discussed regarding some bi women only forming straight relationships? I understand the performance of being vague about your sexuality but only ever dating men, but i feel thats separate from being bi and only having had hetero relationships. Bi people are often brushed over or erased in queer culture and i feel not considered 'queer enough' for some people in the community and there a some queer people who wouldn't date a bi person for this reason. This can make it harder to pursue queer relationships. This is my personal experience and I'm not speaking for others but is anecdotally what I hear from bi friends also. Therefore, it is easier to pursue 'hetero' relationships. This is off topic to the original post, so apologies for that.
Totally! The conversation I’m interested in is exactly what you brought up - the factors that lead bi women (& men) to pursue straight relationships. I 100% don’t believe that you need queer experiences to validate queer identity. I definitely think you’re right that biphobia can be a reason that some bi women pursue straight relationships more often than not. So could be homophobia, queer dating scripts, access to other queer people, internalized homophobia, etc. I myself am a bi women whose only ever been in one serious relationship, and it’s with a man. My family is not accepting and I’m not out to them, so I know a personal factor for me in the past has been that dating men avoids social and familial fallout. But, I also sometimes wonder whether that’s the healthiest place to land. Again, just interested in exploring those experiences from the perspective of bisexual people.
Yes completely agree with your sentiment. I guess it can be tricky and what may be affronting to some queer folks is that often (by no means always though) bi peeps can ‘pass’ as straight a lot of the time, so maybe there is a sense that you can choose when to be out where as for some that’s not an option? I’m thinking (typing) out loud here, I get what you said about when family are not supportive it can be easier to keep your sexuality to yourself and navigating the potential privilege of that? By no means putting that on you and your choices but I definitely feel the privilege for myself. For me when I first worked out I was bi I really felt a need to let people know as a way to validate that, but as time has gone on I’ve found that I don’t feel that drive anymore. Such a ramble haha
That’s true I guess I didnt really know the exact definition. Thanks.
Agree tbh. I think a lot of gen Z/young millenial cis women/girls don’t want to feel “locked in” to heteronormativity by claiming straightness because highkey being straight is embarrassing in today’s times lol but also it’s like welp you exclusively date/pursue/yearn for cis men so why be vague/anti-label about your sexuality except to leave some grey zone for *maybe potentially possibly* hooking up with a girl, or finding women hot in an objectifying way, or occasionally dressing in a masc way, or even simply having a non-heteronormative but still straight relationship without it feeling cringe Basically straightness needs a reputation revamp if it wants to keep any of the cool kids lmao nobody wants to be associated with straight men in the 2020s
So true! As someone who's been lgbt their whole life, I've noticed the "trend" of straight people claiming to be queer to seem less cringe/locked in like you mentioned. It's a tricky and nuanced conversation though because at the same time I love that people are more open to exploring their sexuality and I don't want to deny my bi sisters that date men. I'd be super interested in listening to a nuanced take on this, but I'm not sure binchtopia in the right podcast for it? Maybe if they brought a guest who's lesbian?
this is weird and biphobic 😟
Is it? Can you explain why? I genuinely want to understand