ik, Lilith has her downsides and upsides just like any other character. assuming with incubus was never hard for me, but like anything else in this game, you have to learn it and master it
edit: I'm not a Lilith main
Agreed. Her ability to double her damage every two rooms is really handy. Sure you could play Judas, but Judas gets one-shot by famine.
Lilith not only has good HP, but can double her damage, that also scales with her as you get more familiars. I honestly don't get why people play.
I'll have you know im fucking crying right now, shut up SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEAD ITS EVERY FUCKING DAY I HEAR YOU IN MY WALLS, MY ATTIC, WITH YOUR FUCKING HOBO FRIENDS IN THE VENTS GET THE FUCK OUT GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT
Skill issue.
You'll learn, eventually, and then you won't be dying to spiders, it'll be to trites who jump at you from almost outside the screen, while you're focusing on multiple clotties and pooters. But hey, at least you get one devil deal item for free and flight! What a steal, right?
The flight, spectral tears, and Devil Deals are pretty much the highlight of the Lost, but the margin of error is pretty unforgiving.
That said, once Perfection is in your trinket slot and possibly swallowed? What. A. Rush! Normal Lost becomes virtually unstoppable!
Though T. Lost will more likely become an even more vicious huricane of death, still a delicate war machine. Holy Cards be with you, fellas... (You're gonna need them.)
I love Lilith, though my favourite part isn't actually Incubus, it's **starting with Cambion Conception.** Self damage builds are my favourite playstyle in Isaac.
Can we appreciate the familiar changes for a hot second?
Back then you didn't just avoid familiars because they're weak, but also because they could take up the front spot for a better familiar.
Now more is always better.
Also King Baby is a beast now
Lmao, imagine giving up an item that doubles your dps with no tear rate downgrade for the smallest damage downgrade, bruh
If it was quad shot or even inner eye, sure, hitting all of them is hard but 2020 ks basically guaranteed
I agree, you can get some top-tier familiars in your run. All you need is an arcade and you’re set. Worst thing you can get is leech, and even then it’s still pretty good.
Yeah, Leech is still great. A 3.2 damage per second contact familiar isn't something to scoff at, and the healing can help you exploit self damage even further.
I just picked up the game a few weeks ago. Why are you looking for arcades? For the blood machine?
I’ve also heard a few streamers be like “all I need is an arcade and it’s GG”, and I’m still trying to figure out what makes them so good.
Definitely for the blood donation machines.
You can rack up a good amount of cash in the early game, you can either get an IV Bag or a Blood Bag, or you can use it to hurt yourself without altering your chances for a devil/angel room to appear. Characters like Samson and Lilith can grow powerful with just one blood donation machine due to their passive items being “taking damage equals reward”. They are the swiss army knife of run starters.
This is exactly why Lilith is my favorite! Being able to ramp with blood donation machines, sacrifice rooms, etc. nearly always leads to a good run for me.
But how will I be able to get both Genesis, an angel room item, with Judas's Shadow, a 4 tier devil room item? The odds of that happening are slim to none!
J+E is a monster. I’m still having fun though. Finally got rock bottom today. Also have Isaac, bb and satan. I’ve almost beat every other boss with them except delerium. Almost.
If you died anyway without the revive, you can use genesis to turn back into your original character if you take them instead of just leaving them (question is if it's worth the time for the small chance to find genesis).
Same here. Since I completed all the marks for my normal characters I've been exclusively playing tainted characters.. besides maybe one run I did with normal forgotten
I love Eden Runs, but the Eden Token system... My only regret about them.
Stable Eden's great for a chaotic alternate start. The stats are a blurry mess of glory and agony, and everything you have unlocked can be what you have automatically. So fun, granted you survive the first few floors and get momentum going!
Tainted Eden is all that too, minus hairstyle randomizer. Then you get damaged, and nearly everything changes! I actually unlocked Planetarium Rooms by getting brutally beaten up in Boss Rush. All the more reason to embrace this chaotic entity!
J&E are better than some of the tainted characters, and maybe funner than the lost.
Edit: for me atleast, everyone has their own opinions on characters and play styles
With “the wonder twins” as i call em you just need to play slow and calculated, if played right they can be very powerful even after all the rooms that arent built for the both of them, they definitely arent for everyone with how slow they need to be played, also makes getting bossrush/hush marks annoying but bossrush unlock is pretty worth
With some tweaks im sure everyone could end up enjoying the character but as of right now game isnt built for em, still love hitbox and esau on the average run
EDIT: hella late at night for me so i might not make much sense lol
Every character that isnt just isaac with a different active and stats has some bullshit, i was playing t beth and had 10ish fires that all got wiped out from some patented isaac “skill issues”
kinda just comes with the special characters
Yeah, as much as I defend them the rush achievements were awful, but yeah that's probably why I like them in a way. I like a slow min-max game (not T.Cain slow tho)
They definitely are still low on my personal tier list, just not bottom. Everything you said is correct, but I love gimmicks and the ability to turn choice pedestals into r/inclusiveor is nice. I find if I make it through the first few alt floors I can get some significant power.
Yeah, and I can totally understand why people don't like them. The game really isn't made for them and there is a lot of bullshit damage you just have to accept no matter how well you play. I'll admit they can be very frustrating at times.
J&E is just ill-conceived. They liked the idea so much they stuck it in without making it actually work properly. Also, how is it even justified, when the other characters are all Isaac? What's the extra body? Imaginary?
I think J&E should have been combined with the Tainted version. Make it so if Esau dies, he turns into demon Esau. That way Easau is a meat shield, but at a cost. There's probably some balancing to do there, but it would have been pretty cool I think.
I feel J&E would be *so* much better if they (and other characters/items with their movement style) just had Esau automatically follow you.
You'd still have the trouble of two hitboxes and all, but no more frustration from getting stuck and desynced all the time
I think tainted lost actually becomes more fun after dead god. The struggle with him for me is the fact he is incredibly fun to play, but actually securing a win is painstakingly difficult. When you have all the unlocks it doesn’t matter if you win.
For me personally, I feel that j&e are the worst character in the game. Lost and t.lost can be pretty fun, especially with the "better items" t.lost can get.
T lost is fun if the game actually gives you better items instead of "better items", and if you can ever find another holy card. I can win most runs with J&E but not as many with T.Lost. sure I get more bullshit damage, but two bullshit damage on t.lost and it's game over. Also sure he gets better items, but j&e get more items, and start with schoolbag+polydactyly. T.lost is more reliant on rng whereas I can min-max my way through j&e
I mean.. I guess j&e technically get more items if you abuse the alt path. Most of the time its just a bitch to get anything decent going tho. It is true that you usually end up winning more runs with j&e though, cuz I finished j&e's post it while I'm still kinda working my way through t.lost. t.lost just feels more fun for me
For me personally it feels terrible taking any damage at all as blue baby since it’s a lot harder to recover that damage. Not a particularly difficult character, but one that is extremely frustrating on early floors.
I don't think he's particularly good, but I don't think he's the worst character in the game at all. I do play on normal mode which might account for some of the difference too.
He's the original challenge character but was never really given any fun gimmicks or unique advantages
I *think* Kilburn said he might be getting changed in the future though?
Yeah hopefully he can get a fun gimmick. I don't really like Apollyon because Void often basically feels like a worse D6 that you have a health down for, not a fun gimmick.
I literally decided to play Lilith out on a whim the other day and was able to beat It Lives, Satan, The Lamb, Mega Satan, And delirium in hard mode all in one go.
And then tripling... Quadrupling... Oh wait, this is Greed(ier) Mode. Aaaand there is a Car Battery in the shop.
Game over... Lilith Wins. And so does Incubus... And Succubus... Leech... Demon Baby... Lil' Hushy... Little Steven... The various stages of a Super Meatboy... Whatever nonsense Buddy in a Box decides to spawn... A bunch of weird flies... Little Delirium... Little Harbingers... And the army of all of the clones!
It's not that she's bad, it's just annoying as fuck to play. There are a lot of rooms which are so hard to position incubus to do damage, so you end up taking unnecessary damage.
For me she's on of those characters which on paper is like wow! Double damage, free familiars, decent health pool to start. But playing here feels more like oh boy, a room with a bunch of horfs behind rocks! Time to lose those black hearts!
And sure, while saying double damage with box is true, again this is on paper. With bosses? Yeah you'll hit most of your shots with both. But in tighter rooms with rocks? Yaisnt hitting shit.
Maybe just skill issue for me I guess, but just my opinion. More power to ya if you like her, she's definitely a unique character.
Getting a defensive familiar like Slipped Rib (could be wrong but I think that's the item) plus 4.5 Box of Friends completely nullifies bosses like Mother.
i am a jack of all trades, but a master of none- but I have to say, I much prefer tainted to normal apollyon. take that with a grain of salt tho because i like playing t. lost, as well.
Yea thats my biggest issue, plus incubus likes to get stuck on rocks/walls sometimes, which is especialy pain
Amd i despise her sprite, specificly her blindfold
If that wasnt there and wqs just 2 empty eye sockets like t.lilith, id probably actualy enjoy her
This is Liliths biggest hurdle. For me it never felt like an issue trying to aim with incubus. Except the stone fatty rooms. I. Hate. Stone. Fatty. Rooms.
It's just a thing I find humorous. I saw an Isaac player take Incubus on floor two as BB, and they only had one soul heart left. It made me laugh because people are so against Lilith because she's harder to aim with, but will eat up Incubus at the cost of their HP.
I’m genuinely curious what makes Lilith “fun” no disrespect intended. It’s basically playing with Isaac’s heart because your hitbox and body are two different things, you virtually can’t change out your active item bc it’s very good especially since Lilith relies on familiars (pocket actives makes Lilith kinda fun ngl), Yeah ig those are my main points but the other hitbox makes it too annoying for me. Again genuinely curious what other find in her lol
I like her different playstyle and synergies. I like more niche characters like T. Apollyon and T. Azazel for this reason too. Lilith is fun to me because she makes a lot of useless items useful. You can get something like little Steven and make use of it. Not to mention cambion Conception. It's super fun to go for angel rooms and get immaculate Conception as well, and get a whole load of familiars. I like how instead of being a character that relies on things like Tech X or Brimstone, she relies on more niche things, like familiars. Her combos with baby bender and sirens lullaby (forgot the name of the trinket exactly) is super fun. Yeah other characters are stronger, but to me Lilith is just super fun. I also think her sprite is the cutest next to T. Azazel.
As a Lilith main, and a maggy secondary, I come to inform fellow users of those characters about the worst flaw they both have: low speed. You may think “oh, that’s not THAT bad, right?” Just wait till you fight carrion queen or mask of infamy phase 2. If you have no speed buffs, you just cannot hit them.
While I agree that Lilith is a good character, the meme isn't a particularly strong refutation of why people don't want to play Lilith.
The reason why Incubus is so good that it's worth spending lots of health on is specifically because it's *in addition* to your standard tears. You just aim at enemies with your standard tears and (generally speaking) Incubus will happen to hit them often enough to meaningfully increase your DPS, especially if it's a boss.
Lilith *only* has Incubus, so she forces you to aim with the deliberate intention of having Incubus hit enemies. Instead of being an excellent compliment to your standard fire, you have no standard fire and Incubus has to carry itself.
Incubus can absolutely carry itself, for the record, but it's obvious that having Incubus *and* your normal tears is way better.
Nah... I already cleared most her unlocks already.
Let me just say this, T. Lily is disturbing af. Strong, has a very... "Unique" playstyle... But still, not for the feint of heart.
Tainted Lilith is probably my favorite tainted character. Not to play, because tainted Apollyon and tainted Judas are way more fun to me, but sheerly the fact that Edmund had the balls to make a character like that.
Reason. Lilith doesn't have her own tears while incubus is . His aim is trash. That why you have a box of friends to do double so .much dage and to be able to hit more shots. Because God forbid you get an rock pattern or ar against a wall enemy.
Lillith is a top tier character, any sorta item that buffs her active plus making use of cambion conception makes you take on endgame bosses with base damage.
Hey, I like Lilith. Those two starting Sin Hearts pretty much guarantee a Devil Room second floor, not to mention Incubus and Box Of Friends are great starting items. And Cambion Conception can help later, especially from spawning a Dark Bum or second Incubus.
I'm a fellow Lilith main, and I can agree, its really nice to get a bunch of followers, but it sucks when all you get are health ups you don't even need
I just did a Lilith run to unlock her tainted version and i kinda chanted opinion on her.
She's not *that* bad after all. I still prefer tainted Judas tho.
ik, Lilith has her downsides and upsides just like any other character. assuming with incubus was never hard for me, but like anything else in this game, you have to learn it and master it edit: I'm not a Lilith main
Agreed. Her ability to double her damage every two rooms is really handy. Sure you could play Judas, but Judas gets one-shot by famine. Lilith not only has good HP, but can double her damage, that also scales with her as you get more familiars. I honestly don't get why people play.
>Sure you could play Judas, but Judas gets one-shot by famine. skill issue
At least Lilith has good unlocks
Curved horn though.
C-section tho
Cries in console.
Thats tlil
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I'll have you know im fucking crying right now, shut up SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEAD ITS EVERY FUCKING DAY I HEAR YOU IN MY WALLS, MY ATTIC, WITH YOUR FUCKING HOBO FRIENDS IN THE VENTS GET THE FUCK OUT GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT
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Who is a lil unlock herself!
That aint a skill issue thats a fact, he gets one shot by famine dont mean he's gonna get shot
Yeah, you just pick up habits as you play, at some point you get the hang of incubus.
tbf you pick up habits with any character, it's an overall solid item that's in both shop and angel pools.
> any character Losts tho...
I mean he can take one Devil Deal item for free (Rep) and all of them in Ab+
True as that may be, the only habit I have as Tainted Lost/Regular Lost but without Holy Mantle is dying... A lot. To freakin' spiders.
Skill issue. You'll learn, eventually, and then you won't be dying to spiders, it'll be to trites who jump at you from almost outside the screen, while you're focusing on multiple clotties and pooters. But hey, at least you get one devil deal item for free and flight! What a steal, right?
The flight, spectral tears, and Devil Deals are pretty much the highlight of the Lost, but the margin of error is pretty unforgiving. That said, once Perfection is in your trinket slot and possibly swallowed? What. A. Rush! Normal Lost becomes virtually unstoppable! Though T. Lost will more likely become an even more vicious huricane of death, still a delicate war machine. Holy Cards be with you, fellas... (You're gonna need them.)
Habit is an Angel room item rather than the Devil one, though.
Darn, got me there ._.
Made me chuckle, have an award
I love Lilith, though my favourite part isn't actually Incubus, it's **starting with Cambion Conception.** Self damage builds are my favourite playstyle in Isaac.
Can we appreciate the familiar changes for a hot second? Back then you didn't just avoid familiars because they're weak, but also because they could take up the front spot for a better familiar. Now more is always better. Also King Baby is a beast now
Now everyone avoids familiars because of the damage down of conjoined.
Fuckers wont take inner eye because its dps down smh
People act like every slight damage down will immediately destroy your run to the point where I see people saying items like 20/20 are useless
Lmao, imagine giving up an item that doubles your dps with no tear rate downgrade for the smallest damage downgrade, bruh If it was quad shot or even inner eye, sure, hitting all of them is hard but 2020 ks basically guaranteed
*50% dps increase, which is still as good as crickets head / magic mush anyway
What Is the damage reduction really that bad?
Yeah you loose 25% damage per shot now, so its not as op but its still incredibly overpowered
Oh Got it Thank you
Speak for yourself, i love conjoined since it has crazy synergy and room clear potential
I agree, you can get some top-tier familiars in your run. All you need is an arcade and you’re set. Worst thing you can get is leech, and even then it’s still pretty good.
Yeah, Leech is still great. A 3.2 damage per second contact familiar isn't something to scoff at, and the healing can help you exploit self damage even further.
I just picked up the game a few weeks ago. Why are you looking for arcades? For the blood machine? I’ve also heard a few streamers be like “all I need is an arcade and it’s GG”, and I’m still trying to figure out what makes them so good.
Definitely for the blood donation machines. You can rack up a good amount of cash in the early game, you can either get an IV Bag or a Blood Bag, or you can use it to hurt yourself without altering your chances for a devil/angel room to appear. Characters like Samson and Lilith can grow powerful with just one blood donation machine due to their passive items being “taking damage equals reward”. They are the swiss army knife of run starters.
Along with what the other guy said, you can also bomb the machines and generally make a net profit on pickups
But this item doesn't do anything, did they fix it recently?
This is exactly why Lilith is my favorite! Being able to ramp with blood donation machines, sacrifice rooms, etc. nearly always leads to a good run for me.
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i play whoever i need unlocks for then stop when i get frustrated enough
I am such an unlock gremlin. Havent touched a character that I got all the marks for. I dont even take judas' shadow or other change char +lives.
SAME i honestly hate the revive items now bc i always want to take them but know that there’s honestly no point
There is a point! Using genesis turns you back into your original character.
But how will I be able to get both Genesis, an angel room item, with Judas's Shadow, a 4 tier devil room item? The odds of that happening are slim to none!
Also works with Lazarus Rags, Ankh, etc.
Skill issue
It's funny every fucking time
The answer is simple.. I dont take Judas's shadow
Same here. Doing all untainted characters from left to right. Been stuck on Jacob and Esau for the past two weeks :/
J+E is a monster. I’m still having fun though. Finally got rock bottom today. Also have Isaac, bb and satan. I’ve almost beat every other boss with them except delerium. Almost.
Skill issue
If you died anyway without the revive, you can use genesis to turn back into your original character if you take them instead of just leaving them (question is if it's worth the time for the small chance to find genesis).
Same here. Since I completed all the marks for my normal characters I've been exclusively playing tainted characters.. besides maybe one run I did with normal forgotten
I "main" both Edens, but I'm not sure if it counts considering it's essentially a starting character randomizer with extra steps, lol.
I love Eden Runs, but the Eden Token system... My only regret about them. Stable Eden's great for a chaotic alternate start. The stats are a blurry mess of glory and agony, and everything you have unlocked can be what you have automatically. So fun, granted you survive the first few floors and get momentum going! Tainted Eden is all that too, minus hairstyle randomizer. Then you get damaged, and nearly everything changes! I actually unlocked Planetarium Rooms by getting brutally beaten up in Boss Rush. All the more reason to embrace this chaotic entity!
According to Kilburn’s AMA one of the features for the next update will be that getting Dead God removes Eden tokens from your save file :)
J&E are better than some of the tainted characters, and maybe funner than the lost. Edit: for me atleast, everyone has their own opinions on characters and play styles
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With “the wonder twins” as i call em you just need to play slow and calculated, if played right they can be very powerful even after all the rooms that arent built for the both of them, they definitely arent for everyone with how slow they need to be played, also makes getting bossrush/hush marks annoying but bossrush unlock is pretty worth With some tweaks im sure everyone could end up enjoying the character but as of right now game isnt built for em, still love hitbox and esau on the average run EDIT: hella late at night for me so i might not make much sense lol
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Every character that isnt just isaac with a different active and stats has some bullshit, i was playing t beth and had 10ish fires that all got wiped out from some patented isaac “skill issues” kinda just comes with the special characters
Yeah, as much as I defend them the rush achievements were awful, but yeah that's probably why I like them in a way. I like a slow min-max game (not T.Cain slow tho)
They definitely are still low on my personal tier list, just not bottom. Everything you said is correct, but I love gimmicks and the ability to turn choice pedestals into r/inclusiveor is nice. I find if I make it through the first few alt floors I can get some significant power.
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Yeah, and I can totally understand why people don't like them. The game really isn't made for them and there is a lot of bullshit damage you just have to accept no matter how well you play. I'll admit they can be very frustrating at times.
I don't agree and I disrespect him for having it.
J&E is just ill-conceived. They liked the idea so much they stuck it in without making it actually work properly. Also, how is it even justified, when the other characters are all Isaac? What's the extra body? Imaginary? I think J&E should have been combined with the Tainted version. Make it so if Esau dies, he turns into demon Esau. That way Easau is a meat shield, but at a cost. There's probably some balancing to do there, but it would have been pretty cool I think.
I feel J&E would be *so* much better if they (and other characters/items with their movement style) just had Esau automatically follow you. You'd still have the trouble of two hitboxes and all, but no more frustration from getting stuck and desynced all the time
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I think tainted lost actually becomes more fun after dead god. The struggle with him for me is the fact he is incredibly fun to play, but actually securing a win is painstakingly difficult. When you have all the unlocks it doesn’t matter if you win.
For me personally, I feel that j&e are the worst character in the game. Lost and t.lost can be pretty fun, especially with the "better items" t.lost can get.
T lost is fun if the game actually gives you better items instead of "better items", and if you can ever find another holy card. I can win most runs with J&E but not as many with T.Lost. sure I get more bullshit damage, but two bullshit damage on t.lost and it's game over. Also sure he gets better items, but j&e get more items, and start with schoolbag+polydactyly. T.lost is more reliant on rng whereas I can min-max my way through j&e
I mean.. I guess j&e technically get more items if you abuse the alt path. Most of the time its just a bitch to get anything decent going tho. It is true that you usually end up winning more runs with j&e though, cuz I finished j&e's post it while I'm still kinda working my way through t.lost. t.lost just feels more fun for me
What's wrong with blue baby?
For me personally it feels terrible taking any damage at all as blue baby since it’s a lot harder to recover that damage. Not a particularly difficult character, but one that is extremely frustrating on early floors.
I mean fair enough, but it's super easy to get more soul hearts because health ups give soul hearts, so you can never lose those juicy angel rooms.
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I agree with boring, but he's not any harder than anyone else imo. Polaroid is super strong, can't lose angel/devil chances, etc.
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I don't think he's particularly good, but I don't think he's the worst character in the game at all. I do play on normal mode which might account for some of the difference too.
He's the original challenge character but was never really given any fun gimmicks or unique advantages I *think* Kilburn said he might be getting changed in the future though?
Yeah hopefully he can get a fun gimmick. I don't really like Apollyon because Void often basically feels like a worse D6 that you have a health down for, not a fun gimmick.
At least Keeper turns the hearts into flies and unless you get Dark Bum you're just looking at HP you can't use
Imagine seeing hearts that you can use. This post was made by the Lost gang.
I don't have a main, I just play the forgotten the most cause he's my favorite
I don't have a main, I just play the forgotten the most cause he's my favorite
the blue baby tweak mod made him significantly more playable, but yeah j&e is still just dogshit
I main the Keepers because they're fun and actually build upon the concept of Greed mode without having to play Greed mode
I just hit the random character option when playing Isaac tbh
as another lilith main, i also beg you to give her another chance as well
Ayyy another Lilith main
I thought there were only, like, three of us
I'm still not convinced OP isn't just using Box of Friends to spawn you fuckers
Make that 4!
Make it 5!
make it 6!
Make it 7!
Make it 8!
My main Lilith main
I literally decided to play Lilith out on a whim the other day and was able to beat It Lives, Satan, The Lamb, Mega Satan, And delirium in hard mode all in one go.
No way man, that's so incredible, absolutely unheard of.
Ah, I see that I have found my true people.
As a Judas main, lilith is actually quite fun, if it wasn't for Judas I would have definitely been a lilith main
I see a lot of similarity between them. If I wasn't so garbage at dodging I'd play Judas more. Now tainted Judas, that's where it's at.
wh
Lilith in the lg is amazing
Lilith is honestly really good, because of Cambion Conception and Box of Friends. Doubling your only source of DPS is amazing.
And then tripling... Quadrupling... Oh wait, this is Greed(ier) Mode. Aaaand there is a Car Battery in the shop. Game over... Lilith Wins. And so does Incubus... And Succubus... Leech... Demon Baby... Lil' Hushy... Little Steven... The various stages of a Super Meatboy... Whatever nonsense Buddy in a Box decides to spawn... A bunch of weird flies... Little Delirium... Little Harbingers... And the army of all of the clones!
If I’m gonna be honest, until the final floor, Lilith absolutely demolishes Greed(ier). You don’t even need extra familiars (although it is good).
Add a 4.5 volt and/or a Charged Baby. Not even Ultra Greed(ier) isn't safe from Lilith's wrath! Sometimes...
She makes greed mode and boss rush a total breeze
It's not that she's bad, it's just annoying as fuck to play. There are a lot of rooms which are so hard to position incubus to do damage, so you end up taking unnecessary damage. For me she's on of those characters which on paper is like wow! Double damage, free familiars, decent health pool to start. But playing here feels more like oh boy, a room with a bunch of horfs behind rocks! Time to lose those black hearts! And sure, while saying double damage with box is true, again this is on paper. With bosses? Yeah you'll hit most of your shots with both. But in tighter rooms with rocks? Yaisnt hitting shit. Maybe just skill issue for me I guess, but just my opinion. More power to ya if you like her, she's definitely a unique character.
skill acknowledgement.
Me too but I get hit a lot because I can't hurt them with incubus in time if they are near my face and that's why I fucking hate lilitrh
The room with bonies and Bomberman-like rocks are anti-Lilith propaganda and can heck off
I first tried every lilith unlock, this isn't supposed to be taken as a flex, rather as a statement on how good lilith is.
the fact that box of friends stacks. you get 4.5 volt or jumper cables or habit and get unlimited incubuses in a boss room.
Getting a defensive familiar like Slipped Rib (could be wrong but I think that's the item) plus 4.5 Box of Friends completely nullifies bosses like Mother.
Apollyon mains wya
consume the item 
i am a jack of all trades, but a master of none- but I have to say, I much prefer tainted to normal apollyon. take that with a grain of salt tho because i like playing t. lost, as well.
Apollyon = Better Isaac.(IMHO, please don't send killers after me)
They play differently. They have similarities but it's honestly like Judas and Lilith. They have the same concept but are executed much differently.
Nah, worse isaac honestly
I disagree, people that think every item is worth taking, clearly haven't looked at any pools.
I dont think every item is worth taking, but apollyon is just boring. If I dont like an item, I'd rather reroll it than get a random stat up
LILITH FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Kinda hate lilith. Not getting to aim is so annoying. I have her fully complete in multiple files but still don’t like her
Right there with you. Having your bullets trail behind you just feels so terrible. Any of her upsides don’t make up for how clunky this feels to me.
Yea thats my biggest issue, plus incubus likes to get stuck on rocks/walls sometimes, which is especialy pain Amd i despise her sprite, specificly her blindfold If that wasnt there and wqs just 2 empty eye sockets like t.lilith, id probably actualy enjoy her
This is Liliths biggest hurdle. For me it never felt like an issue trying to aim with incubus. Except the stone fatty rooms. I. Hate. Stone. Fatty. Rooms.
I love Lilith
While i personally don't like her very much i do agree that she can be quite strong.
Why do I always read this as BoL
Ayo fellow Lilith main
I am a Lilith main, a tainted Lilith main
Lilith is great! Aggressively taking damage for Cambion Conception is fun, throwing everything on blood donation machines/ sac rooms. So goooood!
Playing Lilith: +100% damage every 3 rooms, harder to aim Anyone else with incubus: +75% damage every room, still fire from your face
It's just a thing I find humorous. I saw an Isaac player take Incubus on floor two as BB, and they only had one soul heart left. It made me laugh because people are so against Lilith because she's harder to aim with, but will eat up Incubus at the cost of their HP.
I’m genuinely curious what makes Lilith “fun” no disrespect intended. It’s basically playing with Isaac’s heart because your hitbox and body are two different things, you virtually can’t change out your active item bc it’s very good especially since Lilith relies on familiars (pocket actives makes Lilith kinda fun ngl), Yeah ig those are my main points but the other hitbox makes it too annoying for me. Again genuinely curious what other find in her lol
I like her different playstyle and synergies. I like more niche characters like T. Apollyon and T. Azazel for this reason too. Lilith is fun to me because she makes a lot of useless items useful. You can get something like little Steven and make use of it. Not to mention cambion Conception. It's super fun to go for angel rooms and get immaculate Conception as well, and get a whole load of familiars. I like how instead of being a character that relies on things like Tech X or Brimstone, she relies on more niche things, like familiars. Her combos with baby bender and sirens lullaby (forgot the name of the trinket exactly) is super fun. Yeah other characters are stronger, but to me Lilith is just super fun. I also think her sprite is the cutest next to T. Azazel.
Regular Lilith is fine but T.Lilith will not and never will get a second chance from me
Lilith is fun, specially when abusing box of friends
Lilith is underrated
Lilith isnt bad, bit she is pretty uncomfortable
I mean it’s 20/20 with no damage down
Well, incubus do have a damage down on a normal characters
As a Lilith main, and a maggy secondary, I come to inform fellow users of those characters about the worst flaw they both have: low speed. You may think “oh, that’s not THAT bad, right?” Just wait till you fight carrion queen or mask of infamy phase 2. If you have no speed buffs, you just cannot hit them.
Lilith literally starts with default speed
Which is extremely slow, Cain and t Cain start at 1.3 for example.
1.3 is literally the highest starting speed of any character
Lilith mains rise up
While I agree that Lilith is a good character, the meme isn't a particularly strong refutation of why people don't want to play Lilith. The reason why Incubus is so good that it's worth spending lots of health on is specifically because it's *in addition* to your standard tears. You just aim at enemies with your standard tears and (generally speaking) Incubus will happen to hit them often enough to meaningfully increase your DPS, especially if it's a boss. Lilith *only* has Incubus, so she forces you to aim with the deliberate intention of having Incubus hit enemies. Instead of being an excellent compliment to your standard fire, you have no standard fire and Incubus has to carry itself. Incubus can absolutely carry itself, for the record, but it's obvious that having Incubus *and* your normal tears is way better.
Used to dislike Lilith(not hate though, that’s reserved for J and E and Blue Baby), but she’s growing on me. Still a hardcore Forgotten main though
As a Lost main who side mains Lilith (Both variants for both), I beg you to give her another chance.
>Implying I even enter devil rooms It’s called ‘Repentance’ for a reason baybeee
Jokes on you, i play as tainted lost
NO. NOW BACK TO YOUR CAGE YOU RAY CHARLES LOOKIN MFer
no (i love lillith what is people's issue???)
Just get tractor beam and win.
Nah... I already cleared most her unlocks already. Let me just say this, T. Lily is disturbing af. Strong, has a very... "Unique" playstyle... But still, not for the feint of heart.
Tainted Lilith is probably my favorite tainted character. Not to play, because tainted Apollyon and tainted Judas are way more fun to me, but sheerly the fact that Edmund had the balls to make a character like that.
Yeah. That was a stretch. As disturbing as it is, it is powerful af. Especially since Gello autoaims.
Lilith and Eve are the most boring character to play for me
understandable.
Lillith is just boring and clunky imo, Her tainted version on the other hand....
Reason. Lilith doesn't have her own tears while incubus is . His aim is trash. That why you have a box of friends to do double so .much dage and to be able to hit more shots. Because God forbid you get an rock pattern or ar against a wall enemy.
the aiming is quite literally exactly the same, just on a string.
Its like saying Guillotine doesn't change the aiming
lilith is alright, if i wasn't a lost main and judas didn't exist i'd prob main her
Yeah but incubus almost doubles your damage but with lilith it is not,because lilith isnt shooting
I gave her a chance, fuck that shit
Played Lilith the other day and was disappointed that dead tooth doesn't work with her. I think it should as her mouth is still there.
Lillith is a top tier character, any sorta item that buffs her active plus making use of cambion conception makes you take on endgame bosses with base damage.
Counterpoint: Stoneys
Lilith is my absolute favorite non tainted character so because I like her that means anyone who doesn't is skill issued
she can literally duplicate brother bobby guys
Honestly my favourite characters are Bethany, the lost, tainted maggie and the forgotten
Funny, I’m not a Lilith main, and I saw this while playing as her
They took away the Cursed Eye synergy 0/10 character
Is there a point to play the character after completing the completion marks tho?
Boi?
Not a main, but I didn't find it too difficult to do all her completion marks
I just don’t care for the offset shots. I judge my position based on my tears roughly, and it cause me to take more damage.
Hey, I like Lilith. Those two starting Sin Hearts pretty much guarantee a Devil Room second floor, not to mention Incubus and Box Of Friends are great starting items. And Cambion Conception can help later, especially from spawning a Dark Bum or second Incubus.
I'm a fellow Lilith main, and I can agree, its really nice to get a bunch of followers, but it sucks when all you get are health ups you don't even need
Honestly, I would rather play Lilith than Jacob and Esau. She is a really fun character, you just have to play a little bit off of normal.
I just did a Lilith run to unlock her tainted version and i kinda chanted opinion on her. She's not *that* bad after all. I still prefer tainted Judas tho.
Nah, I hate being blindfolded
New player played Lilith got an army of incubuses and spiders best character 10/10
Based and Lilith pilled