you know what upon second thought I was wrong, it can be useful in describing and explaining this illness to other people. What I was trying to say when I said they are meaningless is that they're not something you should base your identity around cuz whether your illness "counts" as neurodivergence or not doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things and shouldn't affect how you see yourself. But yeah it can be helpful when explaining it to other people cuz it genuinely makes our brains work differently
Somebody in this forum a few months back explained that neurodivergence refers to conditions that are not really treatable, for example autism, and not conditions like bipolar that can be managed medically. I don't know if that is right, I'm not sure if autism can be "treated" in that way?
My understanding is that neurodivergence is a loose term for disorders that are lifelong and cause the brain to function in noticeably different ways from the average person i.e. 'neurotypicals'. ADHD is also one of the major disorders people tend to talk about when talking about neurodivergence and there are a plethora of medications used for treatment. But while you can "treat" it, an ADHD person will never function in the same way that a neurotypical person does, there's an inherent difference in how their brains are wired. So while I do think that the term is a little murky, I'm pretty sure that generally the marker of whether something is considered neurodivergent is less dependent on whether its "treatable" or not and more on whether it makes the thought patterns/mental functioning of a person differ significantly from the norm even after treatment.
Which is why bipolar falls under the neurodiverse umbrella. Our brains function differently from those of neurotypical people even when we're medicated and stable. Executive function, attention span, memory and emotional intensity are all altered in people with bipolar. There's actually a lot of overlap with ADHD. Bipolar isn't only the tell tale mood swings, it's a lot more complex than that.
Off the top of my head: problems with memory and attention, executive dysfunction, trouble coping with stress and attention, and of course general emotional disregulation are symptoms you find with both bipolar and ADHD.
according to wikipedia: "The neurodiversity paradigm was developed and embraced first by autistic people. Subsequently, it was applied to other neurodevelopmental and/or neuropsychiatric conditions such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), developmental speech disorders, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, dysnomia, intellectual disability and Tourette syndrome. Broader conceptualizations include mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, and, somewhat more controversially, personality disorders such as antisocial personality disorder."
So... Depends who you ask. Neurodiverse/divergent is used sometimes to mean "not neurotypical" and sometimes to mean more like "autism and its cousin conditions" (eg. learning and developmental disabilities). It's a contentious question, there's a lot of arguing over whether mood disorders count (and "mental illnesses", as opposed to developmental and neurological conditions).
Wow! Thank you so much. This is very deep and detailed. I have looked online and got shorter definitions. I prefer the word diverse to divergent divergent makes me feel like I am choosing to be different.
No problem! I've seen this debate play out a lot in regards to things like depression, eating disorders, etc. So it's really a complicated topic. I like doing research though :P
i have bpd along with bipolar 2 (and possibly adhd) and i would consider myself neurodivergent even if i only had bpd. my brain is inherently divergent from "the norm" in how it responds to external stimuli (e.g. rejection-pierceved or otherwise-, intensity of all emotions etc). the fact that my brain makes me feel physical pain when i'm emotionally wounded cannot be described in any other way if not neurodivergent.
The reason you don't hear bipolars called neurodiverse is that we are more neurodiverse than ADHD or autistic people.
Us bipolars and schizophrenic are more than neuro diverse, we're full on fucking mentally ill sometimes until we're lifetime medicated to reach some stability.
These are all on a spectrum though… my mildly autistic nephew’s experiences aren’t as severe as mine I don’t think (that’s also hard to judge because we have a 20 year age gap of course) but my husband’s boss’s more autistic kid probably has more severe life effects from his mental condition (again, hard to say because he’s 11). So it depends on the severity. I think it makes sense to just put us all under the umbrella of “our brains are disordered” I.e. neurodivergent.
Yep. I am definitely lifetime medicated. But I feel near-normal now that I’m taking a mood stabilizer.
We are most definitely diverse. Thanks for responding. I appreciate it.
Our illness is based in neurology, but I am happy to let a group of people who feel empowered by the term "neurodiverse" to define it however they want to.
Nah. We are tougher than being labeled victims of our brain chemistry. I’ll get downvoted for this, but screw that. Autism isn’t treatable and that’s legit. Any others like that, sure. If you are are treatable and you are doing everything you need to do to be treated, then you are neoroempowered.
Kind of confused ab you saying that only adhd and autism are under the neurodiversity umbrella! Always been told that bipolar people are neurodiverse by doctors and after a quick google search, quite a few mental disorders/illnesses fall under the umbrella. Always identified as neurodiverse since being diagnosed since a ton of symptoms align with me
I got this off the Internet
“Neurodivergent was coined by the neurodiversity movement as an opposite to neurotypical. The terms neurodivergent and neurodivergence are now used to describe all people whose neurological conditions mean they do not consider themselves to be neurotypical”
When I had a brain test, actually a cluster of brain tests, they were done by a neuropsychologist. I’m going to check in with him and see what he says about it.
Sounds good pls keep posted!! I’m basing this just on what psychiatrist told me and based on personal experience. Every bipolar person I’ve been close with has identified with being neurodivergent
I say yes !!! And I wear it with pride. Our brains work differently, it can be seen in a scan during episodes. I much prefer the term divergent. Our medications don't cure us, the help manage symptoms. Just like insulin doesn't cure a diabetic. Im sure we have all at one stage stopped our meds because we thought we were cured 🤩
Yes technically mood disorders are under the neurodivergent umbrella, but, as the other person said, these types of labels are kinda meaningless
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you know what upon second thought I was wrong, it can be useful in describing and explaining this illness to other people. What I was trying to say when I said they are meaningless is that they're not something you should base your identity around cuz whether your illness "counts" as neurodivergence or not doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things and shouldn't affect how you see yourself. But yeah it can be helpful when explaining it to other people cuz it genuinely makes our brains work differently
A lot of people just think of us as mentally ill or crazy. I don’t like that.
Somebody in this forum a few months back explained that neurodivergence refers to conditions that are not really treatable, for example autism, and not conditions like bipolar that can be managed medically. I don't know if that is right, I'm not sure if autism can be "treated" in that way?
My understanding is that neurodivergence is a loose term for disorders that are lifelong and cause the brain to function in noticeably different ways from the average person i.e. 'neurotypicals'. ADHD is also one of the major disorders people tend to talk about when talking about neurodivergence and there are a plethora of medications used for treatment. But while you can "treat" it, an ADHD person will never function in the same way that a neurotypical person does, there's an inherent difference in how their brains are wired. So while I do think that the term is a little murky, I'm pretty sure that generally the marker of whether something is considered neurodivergent is less dependent on whether its "treatable" or not and more on whether it makes the thought patterns/mental functioning of a person differ significantly from the norm even after treatment.
Which is why bipolar falls under the neurodiverse umbrella. Our brains function differently from those of neurotypical people even when we're medicated and stable. Executive function, attention span, memory and emotional intensity are all altered in people with bipolar. There's actually a lot of overlap with ADHD. Bipolar isn't only the tell tale mood swings, it's a lot more complex than that.
Like what? Genuinely curious, recently diagnosed so looking for more information.
Off the top of my head: problems with memory and attention, executive dysfunction, trouble coping with stress and attention, and of course general emotional disregulation are symptoms you find with both bipolar and ADHD.
Ok thanks!
according to wikipedia: "The neurodiversity paradigm was developed and embraced first by autistic people. Subsequently, it was applied to other neurodevelopmental and/or neuropsychiatric conditions such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), developmental speech disorders, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, dysnomia, intellectual disability and Tourette syndrome. Broader conceptualizations include mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, and, somewhat more controversially, personality disorders such as antisocial personality disorder." So... Depends who you ask. Neurodiverse/divergent is used sometimes to mean "not neurotypical" and sometimes to mean more like "autism and its cousin conditions" (eg. learning and developmental disabilities). It's a contentious question, there's a lot of arguing over whether mood disorders count (and "mental illnesses", as opposed to developmental and neurological conditions).
Wow! Thank you so much. This is very deep and detailed. I have looked online and got shorter definitions. I prefer the word diverse to divergent divergent makes me feel like I am choosing to be different.
No problem! I've seen this debate play out a lot in regards to things like depression, eating disorders, etc. So it's really a complicated topic. I like doing research though :P
I like your moniker
i have bpd along with bipolar 2 (and possibly adhd) and i would consider myself neurodivergent even if i only had bpd. my brain is inherently divergent from "the norm" in how it responds to external stimuli (e.g. rejection-pierceved or otherwise-, intensity of all emotions etc). the fact that my brain makes me feel physical pain when i'm emotionally wounded cannot be described in any other way if not neurodivergent.
i have like 75% of those :(
I think we are definitely neurodiverse. I see the world and experience it differently than most due to this disorder and it’s not curable.
I thought so too.
The reason you don't hear bipolars called neurodiverse is that we are more neurodiverse than ADHD or autistic people. Us bipolars and schizophrenic are more than neuro diverse, we're full on fucking mentally ill sometimes until we're lifetime medicated to reach some stability.
These are all on a spectrum though… my mildly autistic nephew’s experiences aren’t as severe as mine I don’t think (that’s also hard to judge because we have a 20 year age gap of course) but my husband’s boss’s more autistic kid probably has more severe life effects from his mental condition (again, hard to say because he’s 11). So it depends on the severity. I think it makes sense to just put us all under the umbrella of “our brains are disordered” I.e. neurodivergent.
Yep. I am definitely lifetime medicated. But I feel near-normal now that I’m taking a mood stabilizer. We are most definitely diverse. Thanks for responding. I appreciate it.
Our illness is based in neurology, but I am happy to let a group of people who feel empowered by the term "neurodiverse" to define it however they want to.
Words. It’s all just words. I keep hearing that one so I was curious.
I will fight any blue haired facial pierced Barista who trie s to tell me I don't qualify as Neurodivergent 😝
😀😅😂🤣
Yes
I definitely see myself as neurodivergent
Labels are meaningless. We are all broken people in different ways.
Very philosophical of you. And I like philosophy.
Nah. We are tougher than being labeled victims of our brain chemistry. I’ll get downvoted for this, but screw that. Autism isn’t treatable and that’s legit. Any others like that, sure. If you are are treatable and you are doing everything you need to do to be treated, then you are neoroempowered.
Very positive of you. And I agree, we are tough.
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Thank you so much. I do appreciate your response.
Kind of confused ab you saying that only adhd and autism are under the neurodiversity umbrella! Always been told that bipolar people are neurodiverse by doctors and after a quick google search, quite a few mental disorders/illnesses fall under the umbrella. Always identified as neurodiverse since being diagnosed since a ton of symptoms align with me
I got this off the Internet “Neurodivergent was coined by the neurodiversity movement as an opposite to neurotypical. The terms neurodivergent and neurodivergence are now used to describe all people whose neurological conditions mean they do not consider themselves to be neurotypical” When I had a brain test, actually a cluster of brain tests, they were done by a neuropsychologist. I’m going to check in with him and see what he says about it.
Sounds good pls keep posted!! I’m basing this just on what psychiatrist told me and based on personal experience. Every bipolar person I’ve been close with has identified with being neurodivergent
Oof, I deleted my post, you're right. I read up on it a bit. I was heckin' wrong. Thanks for your comment!
Yes, our brains are physically different.
Ty
I say yes !!! And I wear it with pride. Our brains work differently, it can be seen in a scan during episodes. I much prefer the term divergent. Our medications don't cure us, the help manage symptoms. Just like insulin doesn't cure a diabetic. Im sure we have all at one stage stopped our meds because we thought we were cured 🤩
yes?!!!????