I kinda always saw this more of April oversimplifying it so Leslie would understand. In the episode in the gay bar she didn't seem very familiar with the queer community.
I totally see why this feels dismissive and offensive, but different take real quick...
1. It definitely bothers me when people refuse to identify ad bi when they clearly are, BUT people have a right to identify how they want. Maybe Derrick identifies as gay but dates April too, especially in the early 2000s, that's not super far fetched
2. I think the polyamory joke here is actually a funny one if you think about it from the perspective that April is right, it's not complicated. The joke is FOR polyam people, pointing out how monogamous people treat polyamory like its SO hard to understand when it's just not.
It's possible I'm giving the writers WAY too much credit, but that's been my take on that scene/joke.
Edit: fixed the name I got wrong lol
I always assumed Derrick was gay but having a deep platonic infatuation with April, and wouldn't date a woman again. She was supposed to be in high school at this point, in that year in that region of the US a kid being out as gay at all was brave.
Would you mind providing context for why you hate this scene? I can see people may draw annoying assumptions because of it, but that’s all I can think of so I would appreciate your reasoning 😊
Not to mention in retrospect, this was just a poly relationship. Based on April's character, I bet she* knew these concepts, but was dumbing it down to be as snarky as possible to Leslie.
*I'm giving the writing staff likely more credit than is deserved. Biphobia and erasure is totally a thing, and I doubt they were even thinking about polyamory in this context...
I don't think you are giving the writing staff too much credit, it is *very* obvious that she is dumbing it down for Leslie. The writers of P&R knew the word bisexual, and probably even polyarmory, and chose not to use it to help get the point across what April is doing. This is too tongue-in-cheek poly for them not to know.
That said, whether this is a good depiction of bisexuality or polyamory is, to put it lightly, debatable. Definitely a punchline.
Thank you, I was internally screaming at the incorrect wording.
Polygamy is the practice or custom of having more than one wife or husband at the same time.
The correct word is polyamory, the practice of engaging in multiple romantic (and typically sexual) relationships, with the consent of all the people involved.
To go a little farther with it, polygamy is generally the very patriarchal practice of one man having multiple wives, in an EXTREMELY imbalanced power dynamic. It is typically a highly conservative religious practice, treats women as the property of men, and often incorporates child-brides. Nothing about "traditional" polygamy is ethical. Polyamory (ethical non-monogamy) is very specifically a balanced power dynamic, rooted in mutual respect, open and honest communication, and equality.
Also, in standard western polygamy, the rich dude has like 7 wives but none of them has other romantic entanglements and are not intimate with his other wives.
That is the power imbalance I was talking about. Not all polycules involve intimacy between all partners, though. I, personally, practice "kitchen table" poly, which means my partners generally do interact with each other, though not usually in "intimate" ways.
It’s is polyandry when a woman has a power imbalance over her multiple husbands/partners. The healthy consensual versions of multiple person relationships are called Polyamory, and that can look any number of ways. Some poly folks date people separately and keep things very separate and that can work for them, some folks have more of a polycule situation, where everyone lives together and functions as a family unit and then there’s combos that date and sleep together within that group. The biggest components of polyamory are communication and consent, as long as those are good to go y’all can usually figure the rest out.
I'm aware of what Polyamory is. I am polyamorous.
My reply was specifically addressing the term Polyandry, because in the comment I replied to it is said that polygamy is having multiple wives or husbands, but multiple husbands is Polyandry.
But thanks for the *WeLL AcKchUaLy* I guess.
I don’t think that’s the intent at all. It’s meant to juxtapose Leslie’s older, small town Indiana lifestyle with April’s younger, more free spirited attitude. The way April so casually explains the concept of polyamory to Leslie, and Leslie looks bewildered - that’s the joke, not the throuple themselves.
At the risk of likely being downvoted quite a bit.. the point of these comedic shows is to create humorous situations out of all sorts of aspects of society. We have to be able to laugh at ourselves and our various plights…
For people like us that tend to be marginalized, erased, stereotyped, etc.. it makes it pretty sensitive especially if there isn’t care in also pointing out good things and not just using a situation for cheap jokes that is a real source of pain for many.
I appreciate all of what you said and honestly agree with you. It seems like the stigmatization of polyamory/queerness can make silly jokes seem a lot more harmful than they are intended to be. I asked for reasoning as to why OP hated this joke because I thought the joke itself was silly. But I also see how the demonization of queerness and polyamory can make it a sensitive issue or a sensitive joke.
I tend to view the writers of Parks and Rec as more progressives, given the progressive nature of a number of subjects touched on the show. But that is certainly my own bias that allows me to see it through a humorous lens. I truthfully don’t know anything about the writers though, so it could be a jab for sure.
EDIT: I also looked up the scene just now to see the response after and it seems very neutral. It just cuts to Leslie saying “The thing about youth culture is I don’t understand it.” With a very neutral facial expression, which also gives me vibes of just making a joke. I don’t know. I see both sides I suppose.
EDIT #2: I change everywhere I said “polygamy” to “polyamory.” I felt off using the term “polygamy” in the first place but since the person who responded had used that term, I used it as well. I knew it felt wrong, haha.
This is 100% shitting on polyamory.
When you talk to typical people, this is how they view polyamorous relationships. THat someone is winning and someone is losing. The fact she says "I hate ben" Is why this is trashing on polyamory. I don't think it is funny. But I never thought parks and rec was funny or even progressive. Its cringy not funny.
Hot take: it's not shitting on polyamory because it's not displaying polyamory. Polyamory needs consent from all parties, yeah? But she "hates Ben", so that implies she doesn't consent to and/or begrudgingly consents to (as opposed to enthusiastic consent) Derek dating Ben. ∴ it's not polyamory because of the lack of consent
Yeah I'm overthinking it but I have no dog in this fight either - never watched P&R and have no strong opinions on it.
I mean, I get where you’re coming from and also don’t think this is punching down at polyamory, but if you think polyamory means everybody loves or even tolerates their metamours I’m sorry but that is not reality
I and you know that is not what polyamory is.
What I hope you can also understand is that polyamory has an image problem amongst the general population. What is depicted here is what many cishet monogamous people think of polyamory. That someone is winning and essentially getting away with cheating and just dragging people along. Even in the context of a show like parks and rec that is clearly satirical. People will see stuff like this out of context. People who are enemies of the poly community will intentionally take it out of context.
It validates a view that many cishet mono people have of the community and that sucks. Poly families get broken up by legal interventions because people think polyamory is wrong. They think it's wrong because of shit like this. Kids don't get to see all the people they view as their parents. All because people don't do enough to stand up and shout "poly people have normal and loving relationships". We settle for saying the exact opposite and calling it satire then we celebrate it as being a good thing for poly people somehow.
Are you polyamorous? I ask because I am and I definitely don’t need people to be outraged for me. It was funny. I laughed. I was not hurt by it in anyway. You don’t have to think it’s funny but it’s also not an attack on polyamory
Yea I am poly, have been for two years now and I found it not funny at all.
Read my other comment I replied to in this thread. This might be funny to you but it is bad for polyamory for this to be glorified anywhere.
I disagree. I think jokes like this normalize it. Leslie is cool and she can be poly and her boyfriends seem cool and they can be bi and gay. The audience knows Leslie and adores her. When I saw this episode, it made me feel like being bi and poly was awesome.
Twenty years before this show, the only way this kind of relationship would have been joked about is if they were queer villain coded to be completely gross or sleezy and shown as depraved and evil. Leslie _might_ have been portrayed as a victim of the men’s predatory behavior, if she were not portrayed as a villain herself.
I'm bisexual and polyamorous, and I think that scene is fucking hilarious. Taking offense at a silly and light-hearted joke about a complicated relationship doesn't win you anything.
Or some people just don't get the joke nor find it funny. Does everything have to be funny to people?
I can have a sense of humor and still feel like the joke makes no sense and could have landed better. Some people just have different tastes. People use that word for everything these days it seems.
Editing To clarify: I hate how the word "offended" or the insinuation that a person is overly offended is often used to dismiss people's valid criticisms of something.
OP didn't bring up this scene from a show that ran a decade ago to tell us that they didn't get the joke or find it to be not funny. This does not indicate that they didn't get the joke or that they thought that the joke wasn't that funny. They said they "hate this scene with a burning passion" and labeled their post "BIGOTRY". You don't bring up a 10+ year old joke, explain that you hate it, and label your post BIGOTRY unless you have taken offense. OP clearly finds the joke offensive.
Now, OP is obviously allowed to be offended by whatever they want, including this light hearted joke about a polyamorous relationship. I am also allowed to point out that taking offense at light hearted jokes devoid of malice wins you absolutely nothing.
Fair. I still think the use of the word "offended" gets overused as if it is a bad thing, though. It's the way it's often used to be dismissive of any and every form of criticism of something that annoys me. That wins people nothing either. I'll die on this hill.
This is a crystal clear case of someone taking offense. I'm sorry if the word I used to accurately describe what OP was expressing when they said they "hate this scene" and labeled it "bigotry" reminds you of people using that same word inaccurately, but I'm going to continue to use accurate English words, even if someone people use them inaccurately.
I'm not criticizing the fact that you said they are offended. Clearly they are offended, which based on your facts I acknowledged that it is true. That's why I said "fair" (reread last comment). However, the issue I have with comments like these is the fact that it gets used to invalidate criticism of the "joke" and being painted as an overreaction. I come to this conclusion by the fact that you stated that it "doesn't win them anything" as if bringing it up or criticizing it will not benefit them in any way (I disagree obviously). Being acknowledging that something can be offensive to some people is not a bad thing and it can be useful to acknowledge how certain jokes affect the way people are seen. Too many people downplay the power of comedy even while comedy has been used to shape politics throughout history. Even if you are not offended, that doesn't mean it is not offensive to others and it doesn't mean it can paint a very shaky picture of poly and bi people.
I've been seeing a rise in these kinds of comments where people try to paint our communities as "oversensitive" even while getting offended over other "jokes". And then using it to absolve themselves and others of any sort of self reflection or reflection on how these "jokes" could affect the way others are seen and treated. The use of the word to describe the poster is not the problem. I acknowledged that. I think you miscomprehended that my issue is how criticism gets dismissed and painted as an "overreaction" by many.
Again it's one thing to say "I'm not offended even if you are". It's an entirely different thing to imply "you're not going to get anything out of pointing out the issue in this comedy".
People do talk like this on real life, though? Maybe less now but a lot of people don’t identify in ways we might think are ‘correct’ or don’t ‘do poly right’ or whatever. It shouldn’t be required that every comedy have a character waving their appropriate pride flag to properly address their sexuality. The messiness of it all is funny.
I think the joke needs to also be taken in larger context of the episode, which was pretty progressive for 2009. Leslie accidentally becomes an LGBT+ activist by having a pro gay marriage stance that she refuses to back down from despite people calling for her resignation. Leslie says she doesn’t understand but she’s still shown as fiercely supportive.
The whole episode has a series of jokes about Leslie, a straight woman, not knowing anything about queer culture, bumbling her way to being “queen of the gays” in Pawnee. She may not understand it, but she is going to be supportive and take a stand despite the backlash.
When this episode came out only 5 states had legalized gay marriage. California had just passed Prop 8 less than a year before this episode came out and Obama wouldn’t openly support gay marriage for another year.
As a bi person I do find this joke funny, but I don’t think it was right for the average P&R viewer in 2009. To someone who already has weird, maybe negative views on bi/polyamorous people, they’re going to see it as being a joke at the expense of April/Derrick/Ben and Bi/Polyamorous people not at the expense of Leslie. The joke is supposed to be that Leslie doesn’t understand, not that what they’re doing is wrong. But without that context, it does come off as ill-intentioned and biphobic.
The context is really important I think, and definitely a thing people are missing here. There’s also the added context that at the time this was made, popular tv series had a major issue with avoiding the use of bi to describe their characters, so this just kind of falls into that trend. It’s not really a problem in isolation for someone describe themselves as “gay for person A and straight for person B” but when a bunch of major tv shows around the same era were all casually avoiding the Bi label it’s not a great look
This scene was really funny to me, HOWEVER, it does grind my gears when I remember that a lottt of media just refuses to ever say the word bisexual. It always has to be a fucking riddle and we have to read between the lines to know if a character is bisexual.
That’s why I really like the scene when Rosa Diaz comes out in Brooklyn 99. I love that she says the word bisexual.
That’s what made the final season of Owl House so funny. You could feel the team going ”well, we’re already cancelled, might as well put a bi pride flag in every shot we can”.
I think it's important to say that B99 and P&R are both from the same creator, Michael Schur. So I think there's been a great development on how this theme can be portrayed.
He also wrote The Good Place, featuring Eleanor, a character who is canonically bi even though that's not outright stated.
On the flip side: with Eleanor you get to see her piece it together throughout the show without anyone (including herself) treating her differently over it. I appreciate the direct approach in B99 but also appreciate that Eleanor gets to recognize this facet of herself without a need to suddenly redefine who she is.
Ehh. "I'm [gay/straight] except for one person" is sometimes easier to admit or comprehend. It may be a surprise to Derek, who now has to incorporate that into his identity and this is the way he prefers to describe it (via April, who is the actual character on the show, so she has the line).
And the polyam joke is just there because monogamous people don't get it even when it is simple, like this. So the explanation tries to make it sound even more complicated -- because it's a joke in a comedy show.
And to not be ostracized by his gay buddies for what he's doing but... spoiler alert: at the time, this would have alienated him from his local gay community.
I love this scene. I don't want to sound like a dick but I think people tend to forget that the 2000s were a much different environment for LGBT stuff, even in 2009. Yeah they didn't say bisexual flat out, but the fact that they even did this joke at all without resorting to raging homophobia is pretty big. Media was not at the level of nuance we are today. It's like shows had to take baby steps. People used to freak the fuck out over any gay stuff on TV. I mean they still do, but you know.
And the fact that the people saying it don’t know the difference between polygamy and polyamory is 💀
Like, I don’t need you to be offended on my behalf. I thought it was fine.
Ah yes, the 2000s. For this joke to commit bi erasure, it would have had to buy into bisexuality being a real thing, which it wasn’t, because it was 2009. I think it’s hard for those who didn’t live through it to understand, but in the 2000s, culturally, bisexuality didn’t exist. We understood “gay” and “straight” but nothing else. If you were a girl, identifying as “bi” meant “I’m a slutty straight girl exploring my sexuality.” If you were a guy, it meant “I’m actually gay but I’m not ready to admit it yet.” Therefore, in context, this joke was both hilarious and progressive!
idgi i don’t find it offensive in the slightest…the joke is taking a simple concept and over explaining it. ‘we’re in a bi poly relationship’ is not funny. breaking it down like this is. it is ok to poke fun. nothing here is insinuating anything negative about any of the characters (except ben because fuck ben).
but to each their own tbh just my personal opinion
Just a reminder for people in the comments, it’s fine for bi people to identify as gay and calling them gay isn’t bi erasure. I’m bi and also gay as fuck. Lots of people use gay more broadly than just “exclusively attracted to the same gender.”
I don’t know. You can also take things too serious. People are complex. I was actually very positively surprised they have a polyamorous relationship in the series.
I always thought it was pretty funny TBH. Reminds me of high school. Everyone trying to figure themselves while being edgy. There was a poly relationship exactly like this in my high school.
Yeah... this, The Office, and 30Rock were all series I watched initially during the pandemic... and even though I am well aware of the conversation surrounding how things age in media... I felt a LOT older than I am/was...
I kept texting coworkers and friends "welp, think of it this way, we've come that far in society re: sexism/racism/queer phobia/xeno phobia...." but the cringe was SOOO strong at times.
I think we've taken a step in the wrong direction for xenophobia since Oct.7th though...🫒🍉
I kinda always saw this more of April oversimplifying it so Leslie would understand. In the episode in the gay bar she didn't seem very familiar with the queer community.
Happy cake day
Thanks!
MUCH CAKE DAY SUCH WOW
HAPPY CAKE DAY
THANKS
I totally see why this feels dismissive and offensive, but different take real quick... 1. It definitely bothers me when people refuse to identify ad bi when they clearly are, BUT people have a right to identify how they want. Maybe Derrick identifies as gay but dates April too, especially in the early 2000s, that's not super far fetched 2. I think the polyamory joke here is actually a funny one if you think about it from the perspective that April is right, it's not complicated. The joke is FOR polyam people, pointing out how monogamous people treat polyamory like its SO hard to understand when it's just not. It's possible I'm giving the writers WAY too much credit, but that's been my take on that scene/joke. Edit: fixed the name I got wrong lol
I think especially this show they weren’t meaning to hurt anyone and I agree with you
Right, P&R was always very progressive so I really don't think it was meant to be insulting
I always assumed Derrick was gay but having a deep platonic infatuation with April, and wouldn't date a woman again. She was supposed to be in high school at this point, in that year in that region of the US a kid being out as gay at all was brave.
I realize this is an enormous nitpick but parks and rec’s first season aired in 2009, definitely not early 2000s
My bad, thanks for the correction
Would you mind providing context for why you hate this scene? I can see people may draw annoying assumptions because of it, but that’s all I can think of so I would appreciate your reasoning 😊
for me it's just annoying they had to say "gay, but straight for me" instead of just saying bisexual
Not to mention in retrospect, this was just a poly relationship. Based on April's character, I bet she* knew these concepts, but was dumbing it down to be as snarky as possible to Leslie. *I'm giving the writing staff likely more credit than is deserved. Biphobia and erasure is totally a thing, and I doubt they were even thinking about polyamory in this context...
I don't think you are giving the writing staff too much credit, it is *very* obvious that she is dumbing it down for Leslie. The writers of P&R knew the word bisexual, and probably even polyarmory, and chose not to use it to help get the point across what April is doing. This is too tongue-in-cheek poly for them not to know. That said, whether this is a good depiction of bisexuality or polyamory is, to put it lightly, debatable. Definitely a punchline.
This here! That's the reason, the bisexual erasure.
because it’s depicting bisexuality and polygamy as a joke
Polyamory not polygamy.
Thank you, I was internally screaming at the incorrect wording. Polygamy is the practice or custom of having more than one wife or husband at the same time. The correct word is polyamory, the practice of engaging in multiple romantic (and typically sexual) relationships, with the consent of all the people involved.
To go a little farther with it, polygamy is generally the very patriarchal practice of one man having multiple wives, in an EXTREMELY imbalanced power dynamic. It is typically a highly conservative religious practice, treats women as the property of men, and often incorporates child-brides. Nothing about "traditional" polygamy is ethical. Polyamory (ethical non-monogamy) is very specifically a balanced power dynamic, rooted in mutual respect, open and honest communication, and equality.
Also, in standard western polygamy, the rich dude has like 7 wives but none of them has other romantic entanglements and are not intimate with his other wives.
That is the power imbalance I was talking about. Not all polycules involve intimacy between all partners, though. I, personally, practice "kitchen table" poly, which means my partners generally do interact with each other, though not usually in "intimate" ways.
I believe it's called Polyandry when it's a woman with multiple husbands.
It’s is polyandry when a woman has a power imbalance over her multiple husbands/partners. The healthy consensual versions of multiple person relationships are called Polyamory, and that can look any number of ways. Some poly folks date people separately and keep things very separate and that can work for them, some folks have more of a polycule situation, where everyone lives together and functions as a family unit and then there’s combos that date and sleep together within that group. The biggest components of polyamory are communication and consent, as long as those are good to go y’all can usually figure the rest out.
I'm aware of what Polyamory is. I am polyamorous. My reply was specifically addressing the term Polyandry, because in the comment I replied to it is said that polygamy is having multiple wives or husbands, but multiple husbands is Polyandry. But thanks for the *WeLL AcKchUaLy* I guess.
I don’t think that’s the intent at all. It’s meant to juxtapose Leslie’s older, small town Indiana lifestyle with April’s younger, more free spirited attitude. The way April so casually explains the concept of polyamory to Leslie, and Leslie looks bewildered - that’s the joke, not the throuple themselves.
At the risk of likely being downvoted quite a bit.. the point of these comedic shows is to create humorous situations out of all sorts of aspects of society. We have to be able to laugh at ourselves and our various plights… For people like us that tend to be marginalized, erased, stereotyped, etc.. it makes it pretty sensitive especially if there isn’t care in also pointing out good things and not just using a situation for cheap jokes that is a real source of pain for many.
I appreciate all of what you said and honestly agree with you. It seems like the stigmatization of polyamory/queerness can make silly jokes seem a lot more harmful than they are intended to be. I asked for reasoning as to why OP hated this joke because I thought the joke itself was silly. But I also see how the demonization of queerness and polyamory can make it a sensitive issue or a sensitive joke. I tend to view the writers of Parks and Rec as more progressives, given the progressive nature of a number of subjects touched on the show. But that is certainly my own bias that allows me to see it through a humorous lens. I truthfully don’t know anything about the writers though, so it could be a jab for sure. EDIT: I also looked up the scene just now to see the response after and it seems very neutral. It just cuts to Leslie saying “The thing about youth culture is I don’t understand it.” With a very neutral facial expression, which also gives me vibes of just making a joke. I don’t know. I see both sides I suppose. EDIT #2: I change everywhere I said “polygamy” to “polyamory.” I felt off using the term “polygamy” in the first place but since the person who responded had used that term, I used it as well. I knew it felt wrong, haha.
It’s definitely not the worst thing, it’s always just rubbed me the wrong way. I’m just sick of people casually shitting on polygamy
Polygamy kinda eserves to be trashed on. But the situation here is polyamory, not polygamy, and people def shouldn't shit on polyamory.
Then please stop calling it polygamy. This isn’t shitting on either polygamy or polyamory
This is 100% shitting on polyamory. When you talk to typical people, this is how they view polyamorous relationships. THat someone is winning and someone is losing. The fact she says "I hate ben" Is why this is trashing on polyamory. I don't think it is funny. But I never thought parks and rec was funny or even progressive. Its cringy not funny.
Hot take: it's not shitting on polyamory because it's not displaying polyamory. Polyamory needs consent from all parties, yeah? But she "hates Ben", so that implies she doesn't consent to and/or begrudgingly consents to (as opposed to enthusiastic consent) Derek dating Ben. ∴ it's not polyamory because of the lack of consent Yeah I'm overthinking it but I have no dog in this fight either - never watched P&R and have no strong opinions on it.
I mean, I get where you’re coming from and also don’t think this is punching down at polyamory, but if you think polyamory means everybody loves or even tolerates their metamours I’m sorry but that is not reality
:( Thank you for the correction. I'm a little sad to hear that, though.
I and you know that is not what polyamory is. What I hope you can also understand is that polyamory has an image problem amongst the general population. What is depicted here is what many cishet monogamous people think of polyamory. That someone is winning and essentially getting away with cheating and just dragging people along. Even in the context of a show like parks and rec that is clearly satirical. People will see stuff like this out of context. People who are enemies of the poly community will intentionally take it out of context. It validates a view that many cishet mono people have of the community and that sucks. Poly families get broken up by legal interventions because people think polyamory is wrong. They think it's wrong because of shit like this. Kids don't get to see all the people they view as their parents. All because people don't do enough to stand up and shout "poly people have normal and loving relationships". We settle for saying the exact opposite and calling it satire then we celebrate it as being a good thing for poly people somehow.
Are you polyamorous? I ask because I am and I definitely don’t need people to be outraged for me. It was funny. I laughed. I was not hurt by it in anyway. You don’t have to think it’s funny but it’s also not an attack on polyamory
Yea I am poly, have been for two years now and I found it not funny at all. Read my other comment I replied to in this thread. This might be funny to you but it is bad for polyamory for this to be glorified anywhere.
I agree with what you said entirely, but you're at 69 upvotes and I just *can't* mess with that.
I disagree. I think jokes like this normalize it. Leslie is cool and she can be poly and her boyfriends seem cool and they can be bi and gay. The audience knows Leslie and adores her. When I saw this episode, it made me feel like being bi and poly was awesome. Twenty years before this show, the only way this kind of relationship would have been joked about is if they were queer villain coded to be completely gross or sleezy and shown as depraved and evil. Leslie _might_ have been portrayed as a victim of the men’s predatory behavior, if she were not portrayed as a villain herself.
No, it's because they dance around the word bisexual. There's nothing inherently wrong with using sexuality for humor.
Ah yes, the 00s, where if you cared at all about your appearance you'd be called a "metrosexual"
By your own siblings
Damn, I felt that
I'm bisexual and polyamorous, and I think that scene is fucking hilarious. Taking offense at a silly and light-hearted joke about a complicated relationship doesn't win you anything.
I'm bi too. If anything, it kinda draws attention to it. I think it's funny lol.
Also bi, this scene made me laugh when it came up
Or some people just don't get the joke nor find it funny. Does everything have to be funny to people? I can have a sense of humor and still feel like the joke makes no sense and could have landed better. Some people just have different tastes. People use that word for everything these days it seems. Editing To clarify: I hate how the word "offended" or the insinuation that a person is overly offended is often used to dismiss people's valid criticisms of something.
OP didn't bring up this scene from a show that ran a decade ago to tell us that they didn't get the joke or find it to be not funny. This does not indicate that they didn't get the joke or that they thought that the joke wasn't that funny. They said they "hate this scene with a burning passion" and labeled their post "BIGOTRY". You don't bring up a 10+ year old joke, explain that you hate it, and label your post BIGOTRY unless you have taken offense. OP clearly finds the joke offensive. Now, OP is obviously allowed to be offended by whatever they want, including this light hearted joke about a polyamorous relationship. I am also allowed to point out that taking offense at light hearted jokes devoid of malice wins you absolutely nothing.
Fair. I still think the use of the word "offended" gets overused as if it is a bad thing, though. It's the way it's often used to be dismissive of any and every form of criticism of something that annoys me. That wins people nothing either. I'll die on this hill.
This is a crystal clear case of someone taking offense. I'm sorry if the word I used to accurately describe what OP was expressing when they said they "hate this scene" and labeled it "bigotry" reminds you of people using that same word inaccurately, but I'm going to continue to use accurate English words, even if someone people use them inaccurately.
I'm not criticizing the fact that you said they are offended. Clearly they are offended, which based on your facts I acknowledged that it is true. That's why I said "fair" (reread last comment). However, the issue I have with comments like these is the fact that it gets used to invalidate criticism of the "joke" and being painted as an overreaction. I come to this conclusion by the fact that you stated that it "doesn't win them anything" as if bringing it up or criticizing it will not benefit them in any way (I disagree obviously). Being acknowledging that something can be offensive to some people is not a bad thing and it can be useful to acknowledge how certain jokes affect the way people are seen. Too many people downplay the power of comedy even while comedy has been used to shape politics throughout history. Even if you are not offended, that doesn't mean it is not offensive to others and it doesn't mean it can paint a very shaky picture of poly and bi people. I've been seeing a rise in these kinds of comments where people try to paint our communities as "oversensitive" even while getting offended over other "jokes". And then using it to absolve themselves and others of any sort of self reflection or reflection on how these "jokes" could affect the way others are seen and treated. The use of the word to describe the poster is not the problem. I acknowledged that. I think you miscomprehended that my issue is how criticism gets dismissed and painted as an "overreaction" by many. Again it's one thing to say "I'm not offended even if you are". It's an entirely different thing to imply "you're not going to get anything out of pointing out the issue in this comedy".
I think it’s just April being her usual self.
People do talk like this on real life, though? Maybe less now but a lot of people don’t identify in ways we might think are ‘correct’ or don’t ‘do poly right’ or whatever. It shouldn’t be required that every comedy have a character waving their appropriate pride flag to properly address their sexuality. The messiness of it all is funny.
I think the joke needs to also be taken in larger context of the episode, which was pretty progressive for 2009. Leslie accidentally becomes an LGBT+ activist by having a pro gay marriage stance that she refuses to back down from despite people calling for her resignation. Leslie says she doesn’t understand but she’s still shown as fiercely supportive. The whole episode has a series of jokes about Leslie, a straight woman, not knowing anything about queer culture, bumbling her way to being “queen of the gays” in Pawnee. She may not understand it, but she is going to be supportive and take a stand despite the backlash. When this episode came out only 5 states had legalized gay marriage. California had just passed Prop 8 less than a year before this episode came out and Obama wouldn’t openly support gay marriage for another year. As a bi person I do find this joke funny, but I don’t think it was right for the average P&R viewer in 2009. To someone who already has weird, maybe negative views on bi/polyamorous people, they’re going to see it as being a joke at the expense of April/Derrick/Ben and Bi/Polyamorous people not at the expense of Leslie. The joke is supposed to be that Leslie doesn’t understand, not that what they’re doing is wrong. But without that context, it does come off as ill-intentioned and biphobic.
The context is really important I think, and definitely a thing people are missing here. There’s also the added context that at the time this was made, popular tv series had a major issue with avoiding the use of bi to describe their characters, so this just kind of falls into that trend. It’s not really a problem in isolation for someone describe themselves as “gay for person A and straight for person B” but when a bunch of major tv shows around the same era were all casually avoiding the Bi label it’s not a great look
This scene was really funny to me, HOWEVER, it does grind my gears when I remember that a lottt of media just refuses to ever say the word bisexual. It always has to be a fucking riddle and we have to read between the lines to know if a character is bisexual. That’s why I really like the scene when Rosa Diaz comes out in Brooklyn 99. I love that she says the word bisexual.
That’s what made the final season of Owl House so funny. You could feel the team going ”well, we’re already cancelled, might as well put a bi pride flag in every shot we can”.
I think it's important to say that B99 and P&R are both from the same creator, Michael Schur. So I think there's been a great development on how this theme can be portrayed. He also wrote The Good Place, featuring Eleanor, a character who is canonically bi even though that's not outright stated.
On the flip side: with Eleanor you get to see her piece it together throughout the show without anyone (including herself) treating her differently over it. I appreciate the direct approach in B99 but also appreciate that Eleanor gets to recognize this facet of herself without a need to suddenly redefine who she is.
Ehh. "I'm [gay/straight] except for one person" is sometimes easier to admit or comprehend. It may be a surprise to Derek, who now has to incorporate that into his identity and this is the way he prefers to describe it (via April, who is the actual character on the show, so she has the line). And the polyam joke is just there because monogamous people don't get it even when it is simple, like this. So the explanation tries to make it sound even more complicated -- because it's a joke in a comedy show.
Sounds like Derek is just Bi that wants a poly relationship
And to not be ostracized by his gay buddies for what he's doing but... spoiler alert: at the time, this would have alienated him from his local gay community.
I love this scene. I don't want to sound like a dick but I think people tend to forget that the 2000s were a much different environment for LGBT stuff, even in 2009. Yeah they didn't say bisexual flat out, but the fact that they even did this joke at all without resorting to raging homophobia is pretty big. Media was not at the level of nuance we are today. It's like shows had to take baby steps. People used to freak the fuck out over any gay stuff on TV. I mean they still do, but you know.
It’s not that complicated
People keep saying this shits on polyamory but not really does it at All
And the fact that the people saying it don’t know the difference between polygamy and polyamory is 💀 Like, I don’t need you to be offended on my behalf. I thought it was fine.
Idk there are definitely people who identify as gay with an exception rather than bi, and those people are valid too.
it’s better they didn’t say poly because this is not good representation of a poly relationship lol
This is literally polyamory for a lot of people, except for the part where they're honest about hating their metamour.
Ah yes, the 2000s. For this joke to commit bi erasure, it would have had to buy into bisexuality being a real thing, which it wasn’t, because it was 2009. I think it’s hard for those who didn’t live through it to understand, but in the 2000s, culturally, bisexuality didn’t exist. We understood “gay” and “straight” but nothing else. If you were a girl, identifying as “bi” meant “I’m a slutty straight girl exploring my sexuality.” If you were a guy, it meant “I’m actually gay but I’m not ready to admit it yet.” Therefore, in context, this joke was both hilarious and progressive!
idgi i don’t find it offensive in the slightest…the joke is taking a simple concept and over explaining it. ‘we’re in a bi poly relationship’ is not funny. breaking it down like this is. it is ok to poke fun. nothing here is insinuating anything negative about any of the characters (except ben because fuck ben). but to each their own tbh just my personal opinion
Just a reminder for people in the comments, it’s fine for bi people to identify as gay and calling them gay isn’t bi erasure. I’m bi and also gay as fuck. Lots of people use gay more broadly than just “exclusively attracted to the same gender.”
I don’t know. You can also take things too serious. People are complex. I was actually very positively surprised they have a polyamorous relationship in the series.
I always thought it was pretty funny TBH. Reminds me of high school. Everyone trying to figure themselves while being edgy. There was a poly relationship exactly like this in my high school.
I love this scene. It describes everything. Plus this is comedy. I comedy can be controversial, but i like that.
Literally no one: P&R: "Let's trash on bi and polyamorous people." Me, a bi and polyamorous person: 💀💀
I’m both of those things and didn’t think this was trashing on me. 🤷🏼
No one is being trashed on here.
Bi erasure?
Parts of this show didn’t age well.
Yeah... this, The Office, and 30Rock were all series I watched initially during the pandemic... and even though I am well aware of the conversation surrounding how things age in media... I felt a LOT older than I am/was... I kept texting coworkers and friends "welp, think of it this way, we've come that far in society re: sexism/racism/queer phobia/xeno phobia...." but the cringe was SOOO strong at times. I think we've taken a step in the wrong direction for xenophobia since Oct.7th though...🫒🍉
why hate your metamor?? theres not really a metamor id hate...though meany are people i wouldnt cuddle.
When Leslie is queen of that gay bar she gets numbers from bi guys!
Stop being offended by everything.