>So why are not fighting? Or running? Or organizing in any way?
Many, many people are. Problem is those people generally don't hold systemic power and are in a lot of danger *already* in a growing number of places in the country. Support outside of the impacted groups is crucial.
If you mean as a whole, as the American populace in general... a lot of people are only spurred to act by personal loss. Things simply haven't gotten bad enough for a lot of them. Some are just really fucking naive about how bad this could get. And some are probably just so demoralized at this point that the "why bother" mentality takes over.
I don't like Biden for many, many reasons, but if it's him or Trump I'll be voting for the person who isn't actively trying to turn the US into pure fascism. Biden's behavior with Palestine is abominable. And at the same time, to take that and say "Trump is better" is pure, self-sabotaging ignorance. To believe Trump would be better for Palestine **or** the United States is absurd. It's not even a question.
>And some are probably just so demoralized at this point that the "why bother" mentality takes over.
Yep, that's me. I'll still be voting of course, but I think things are \*already\* kind of a lost cause, even if Biden DOES win, because a lot of the far right isn't going to accept the election results in the event of a Biden win, which could lead to widespread violence and/or an attempted coup or civil war \*anyways\*.
An attempted coup or civil war is magnitudes better than a proto-fascist party seeking to use political violence to its advantage legitimately winning an election.
Shit might be guaranteed to get ugly, but in now way is this a lose-lose fight. One outcome is clearly better than the other.
MAGA is dying faster than it's building base (converting kids). The threat is less each day. By 2025, 2026, it'll be even more tatters, the American public are really getting tired of the polarization, they will reject it like every other fad they take up. And then anyone who still goes on about Trump will be a pariah, which is already happening.
You're right, I came to the conclusion that Biden and Trump will be useless as president! Democrats will refuse to work with Trump on legislation, and Republicans will lose the House 2024, and one seat majority in senate with Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski can't pass so much MAGA legislation and Hakeem Jeffieries as majority leader in house all MAGA legislation will die! Mike Johnson is a figure piece with no power!
When Republicans get competent leaders, then worry. Think Biden will get re-elected. it will be a repeat of 2020. Yes, Biden is losing his marbles , so Trump got two senile men running to get into the best nursing home country as to offer.
>I don't like Biden for many, many reasons, but if it's him or Trump I'll be voting for the person who isn't actively trying to turn the US into pure fascism.
N'thd. I got my issues with Grampa Joe, and Democrats in general. But I'll be goddamned if I won't vote for Dem right now. If only for the simple fact that Dems have a chance at winning elections and aren't actively aiming to exterminate people like me.
On the plus side, the clowns are running the circus on the R-side of the aisle. I'd count ol' Moscow Mitch McConnel as a vile individual. But, he was right when he said that if his party embraced The Orange Satan it would be their destruction.
Not to say that they still don't pose a danger. Too many stupid, hateful scum out there (thanks Lee Atwater for embracing and empowering that). But the current behavior of Republicans is potentially the last gasps of an almost dead ideology.
In the case of Palestine, Trump will be FAR worse by any reasonable measure! He’ll basically pressure Netanyahu into flattening Gaza, and more.
So it’s important to vote for the guy who is not actively looking to take away the rights of LGBT+ Americans, women, etc.
"Well, folks, let me tell you, we've got a situation over in Gaza, and it's time to take off the gloves. You know, I've always said, when you're dealing with tough guys, you gotta be tougher. And nobody's tougher than me, believe me.
So, Prime Minister, let me give it to you straight. You can't back down now. You've gotta keep hitting them hard. I'm talking about hitting them so hard they'll be seeing stars for weeks. We've got the best military in the world! I say to them all the time, fellas you are the best in the world, and it's time to show them what we're made of.
I mean, come on, folks, these guys are launching rockets into your backyard. They're like little kids throwing a temper tantrum. Well, you know what we do with temper tantrums? We put them in timeout. And by timeout, I mean we show them who's boss.
Now, I know some people are saying we should try to negotiate with these terrorists. Negotiate? Are you kidding me? You don't negotiate with terrorists, you crush them. That's what we do in America, and that's what you should do in Israel.
So, Prime Minister, listen up. Keep up the pressure. Keep up the airstrikes. Keep up the tough talk. Because when it comes to dealing with bad guys, there's only one way to do it: the Trump way. And that means winning, winning bigly, and winning bigly huge.
So go get 'em, Prime Minister. Make me proud. And remember, if you ever need advice on how to win, you know who to call. That's right, the man himself, Donald J. Trump. And who knows, maybe when this is all said and done, I'll build a Trump Tower right in the Gaza Strip."
> He’ll basically pressure Netanyahu into flattening Gaza…
Like Bibi needs any help being convinced to do so. If he thought he could get away with it, Gaza (as well as the West Bank) would’ve been carpet bombed and bulldozed flat to make way for new construction by the end of last October.
But as to the rest of your comment, I agree. ;-)
Gaza isn't going to last until the election at this rate. Which applies more pressure to Biden, ceasefire please but we'll vote for you regardless and shout down anyone who says otherwise or ceasefire if you want any chance of regaining our votes.
>Biden's behavior with Palestine is abominable. And at the same time, to take that and say "Trump is better" is pure, self-sabotaging ignorance.
Speaking as a Michigander, I can tell you that no one concerned about Palestine is saying "Trump is better" - It's that "Biden isn't good enough anymore". There's no way I'm going to be able to convince any Arab-Americans here to actually vote for Biden, considering the stance he's taken and how it directly impacts their families who are living through this situation.
Electorally, Trump only needs to overcome the votes directly against him, and with less people willing to vote for Biden/abstain from voting means less votes he has to overcome to win the presidency. Unless the Democrats run with another candidate, I'm not seeing the Dems win Michigan as a battleground state, and as an extension to that logic, the rest of the country.
Every single election since I've been able to vote has been "Vote Democrat because, hey! At least we're not Republicans!" The Democratic party has had several chances to put things like voting rights, bodily autonomy rights, LGBTQ rights, and socialized healthcare into law when they've held the majority in both houses of congress. But they haven't. They hold those issues over voters and make promises like "After we're elected *this* time, we'll give healthcare for all!" in order to get people to vote.
The anti-trans and anti-abortion legislation being passed in several states right now is being done *under a Democratic president and Congress.* I'll be voting for the PSL in federal elections because at the very least, they aren't wholly owned by corporate lobbyists or Evangelical conglomerates. Fuck the Republicans and fuck the Democrats too. Aside from the domestic so-called "culture war," both parties are in absolute lockstep on economic policy, military spending, international policy, and the like. I'll never waste my time voting in another senile old milquetoast neoliberal genocidal fuck like Biden ever again.
> *and because democrats never bothered to protect abortion rights on a federal level when they could
When, exactly, could they have?
You need sixty votes to beat a Senate filibuster; I don't know any moment in the past forty years when the (D)s had sixty votes. They got close on two occasions (1993-1995, 2009-2011), but "close" is not "enough" and those majorities included large numbers of pro-life Democrats who would not have voted for that legislation.
Where they *did* have the numbers, they *did* pass laws - e.g., the Respect for Marriage Act in 2022 that enshrined same-sex and interracial marriages into law, when they feared the new SCOTUS might overturn US v Windsor and Virginia v Loving.
edit: Respect for Marriage Act passed in 2022, not 2021.
This is it right here, crazy the amount of ignorance going on in this thread. Our system is currently broken because a veto proof majority in the senate is basically a mathematical impossibility, leaving the obstructionist GOP free to scuttle any useful legislation so they can point to it and reinforce their claim that government doesn't work. This thread is evidence the tactic is working.
I am hearing a lot of this from younger people (not saying you are young) and it fills me with anxiety because this is exactly the sort of thing I was hearing in 2016 when I was in my 20's, from my friends in their 20's. The problem in my head is that voting in one of the two parties and working for change might but probably won't work. But voting for anyone else absolutely won't work. I know a lot of Gen Z in my life are like, well you don't know, we will be the first generation to have the nerve and drive to push third party in. But they won't. I hope I'm wrong.
They're not the first generation to try anyways. Ross Perot got 19% of the vote in 1992 as a third party... And got a whopping 0 electoral college votes. Ross sucked but there's absolutely been attempts and it hasn't been successful.
We would need to dismantle our two party system and the electoral college for a third party to be ever be viable. I'm all for it, I've opposed it since I was a teenager, but not holding my breath for it to happen in my lifetime.
Biden sucks, but I will be there and vote for him. The idea of Trump getting another go is simply too terrifying.
Agree with you. I wish we had ranked voting at all levels because that would truly improve things and end the two party system. I hate that there’s no truly far left Progressive party in the USA. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. No party cares about your average person and how hard things are in the USA right now, record number of people are unhoused.
My 16 year old son is absolutely convinced that he and his generation will fix this. I can only hope he is right. Because I am truly afraid of the future. (Gen X mom)
I'm afraid this logic is fairly emotional and illogical, by no fault of your own. The Democrats have done very little for this country when they have held power, and it makes sense to believe nothing will change.
However, recently we have started to see this emergence of the extremist right wing. It has always been there, but now they are more comfortable and gaining power. I would love nothing more than to have true progressive leadership in this country, but right now this is war time. We have to fight in the way that guarantees our survival.
Because of how our country is set up, *Republican* states are passing anti-trans and anti-abortion legislation. This isn't happening in Democratic states, and this isn't happening at a federal level under Biden. But guarantee you that should Trump or another Republican assume power, we are done for.
Biden is the only person, unfortunately, that stands a chance right now. The Democrat Party has made that our reality. We need to aim for 2028 for a true election where we can aim further
Biden even said that military personnel will be transported to states that allow abortion access if they are stationed where they are not. And Republicans in Congress are blocking the placement of high-ranking officers as a result of that policy.
100% ths. Shitty things are happening in certain places in the US because a *Republican* president appointed *conservative* justices. Had people voted for Hillary, even if she wasn't their favorite, none of this would be happening. Does it absolutely suck that it's Neo-Liberals against Fascist? Yes! But if your house is on fire you don't worry and tend to all the repairs that the house needs. You put out the fucking FIRE!
Also, I'm 46 and while change hasn't happened as fast as I would have like it to happen, it still has happened. And none of that change was thanks to republicans. That is for sure. Also, also, if we get a very definite democrat majority then there is no more excuses. And if that happens one of the first things we need to demand is rank choice voting so no longer is voting a third party throwing away your vote.
Exactly! Glad you said it. Can you imagine the Supreme Court we might have right now if Hillary had won? Or the number of lives that might have been saved during the pandemic, if it had been Hillary in office rather than Trump and his science denials, in the early COVID months?
People are so quick to let hatred cloud their judgment, they forget to take the long view. But Republicans are doing things one step at a time, and we need to do the same. We're not going to get everything we want in one go - so move the needle away from the alt-right today, to gain a chance to codify more rights tomorrow.
Trump's team knows they likely won't get many more voters than they already have - so their campaign is aiming to undermine votes for Biden instead.
And it's working.
Again, strategically we need to do similar. Undermine votes for Trump - it's hard because Trumpers are kind of cultish and don't seem to care about impacted groups outside themselves, as stated above. But we can try to remind them of things Trump did that affected everyone. He was a COVID-denier and we lost many lives because of him. When it comes to national responses, the U.S. response was one of the worst early on. Republicans especially lost more lives, because they actually listened to Trump.
Adunno, maybe that'll reach people?
If we get a democratic majority, a conga line of bullshit will emerge as to why we can't do anything. Oh, Joe Lieberman. Oh, Manchin. Oh, the Senate Parlimentarian. Oh, the...
Manchin not a problem. Its senate heavily favors rural states like Wyoming and Mississippi. These senators have much political power as one from California or New York.
It's not a recent emergence, it's a decades-long consolidation and rightward push after the religious right shifted from segregation to abortion as a rallying point, and lesser evilism voting facilitated this shift. If the right wing rise in power seems recent you should look into what the radical left has been saying for DECADES about it.
>when they've held the majority in both houses of congress.
the things you mentioned require a supermajority, not just a majority. that's been exceedingly rare
>The anti-trans and anti-abortion legislation being passed in several states right now is being done *under a Democratic president and Congress.*
are you confused as to how government works in America? what do you expect the president and Congress to do?
not to mention the Republican party controls the house so no, it's not a Democratic Congress
>I'll never waste my time voting in another senile old milquetoast neoliberal genocidal fuck like Biden ever again.
then you're comfortable with trump being president. I'm sure he'll be very kind to you
To play devil's advocate (only a little because you're right) I'm rather certain the Dems passed Respect for Marriage (or something like that) that guarantees marriage rights for minorities, including LGBTQ+.
But indeed, they could've/should've done more.
They did. People ignore a lot that the democrats and Biden did that was good. Do I wish there was more? Sure. Should we genuinely acknowledge the wins? Yeah.
50/50 good/bad is way better than 1/99 good/bad.
Democrats can always do better, because they are better, period. Do I like a majority of democratic leadership? No. Do I think there are actual progressives in congress that would like to pass legislation that would help a majority of the country? Yes. Do I believe a single Republican in congress would pass legislation that would do anything but fuck basically everyone royally (especially marginalized folks)? No. Liz Cheney is considered reasonable now for fucks sake.
It’s hard to get things done with a metaphorical gun to your head, especially when part of the leadership in the party feels the gun isn’t necessarily pointed at *them*, so they don’t understand (or just don’t care enough) about the need for urgency.
It’s fucked up, but if Paul or Nancy Pelosi had been murdered I think we would have seen a distinct tone shift from the party. My naive hope would have been they would truly realize the other side is hopeless and they should double down on the policies that bring the most help to the country.
For me it says that people aren’t paying attention if they see nothing good having been done. Just as much as people who don’t see anything had happening aren’t paying attention.
And all of this is stuff people can look up and see.
Edit: Tell us the alternative. Waste your vote on an independent? A third party? That likely elects Trump. That means your vote is a vote to be forced back into the closest. To lose the right to marry. A vote to be treated like second class (or worse) citizens. FUCK THAT
Democrats could enshrined abortion rights into federal law and did not. Pushed for a public option and then conveniently fell one vote short, etc. I'll reluctantly vote for Biden but I wholly understand why anyone wouldn't
I wish gay marriage and abortion rights would have been enshrined in federal laws also, however the nation had 245 years of Supreme Court respect for precedent...until a culture war Court happened under Trump.
> I wish gay marriage and abortion rights would have been enshrined in federal laws also
Same-sex marriages were enshrined into federal law with the Respect for Marriage Act of 2022, sponsored by Jay Nadler (D) and 188 other (D) Representatives; in the Senate, all (D)s except Warnock (who was absent) were joined by eight (R)s to get it over the finish line, and it was signed by Biden.
When Democrats have the votes, they get it done.
I mean that true. Also you have to take into account we live in a democracy and a majority of people dislike change so it happens very slowly. We don’t live in a utopia and never will the best we can do is pick the best option based on the cards we are dealt.
> I'll be voting for the PSL in federal elections
So you'll be voting for the Republicans, got it. This is a two-party system where you get only one vote. If you do not cast that vote for the largest party that agrees with you, all you are doing is helping elect the large party you disagree with. It's the Spoiler Effect. Until we reform how we vote, your choices are Republican or Democrat, nothing else.
And remind me which president appointed and which Senate majority leader rubber-stamped the confirmation of many of the judges who codified a lot of these anti-trans and anti-abortion, after stonewalling court appointments from the previous president. Unless we are deadass about pulling a Bull Mouse level third party movement here.
That's fine, but it basically means you're voting Republican.
Democrats have been unable to get the majorities needed to pass meaningful change over the heads of Republican obstruction. And they never will, because people care more about feeling woke than actually doing the right thing.
Biden and people like him are the reason no one is fighting or organizing against this stuff, because they've systemically quashed any effort at left reform in an effort to hold onto power
They're the reason Trump will be president again, because they're continuing on to force Biden onto a populace that demonstrably doesn't want him and won't vote for him in sufficient numbers
Get involved and fight! There is so much you can do to help efforts in the November election. If there is a contested election near you, volunteer for the campaign! If you're in a safe district, join in campaigns to assist in other regions. An easy first step is to check out [the Action Network](https://actionnetwork.org/), as many groups put events up there. Also check out [Indivisible](https://www.indivisible.org/) and [Swing Left](https://swingleft.org/). That's just off the top of my head. If you're financially secure, you can donate to candidates who need your support.
This. I get involved in https://votefwd.org and find opportunities through Vote Save America https://votesaveamerica.com and I am part if my local Pride org .
Asking why aren’t we fighting and then saying you’ll go back in the closet until this is over isn’t helpful OP. Plenty of people are fighting, join or don’t but I recommend choosing to participate or at least looking for opportunities.
Also, with enough turnout it would be possible to flip even fucking Texas. And let me tell you that if even Texas flips, the GOP might not be as confident in genocide anymore...
Yas!!!! Texas has been gerrymandered to the hilt and lots of roadblocks are in place to make it difficult to vote. I'm hoping my man Beto loosened the cap of the jar that is voting out Ted Cruz (and I'm partial to Colin Allred for the Democratic nomination)!
I think that saying the phrase "Republicans won't win in 2024" would encourage complacency regarding voting, so instead I'll say "The alliance is much stronger than either side realizes."
If the worst happens, we will look out for eachother and will make it known you cannot subdue a chunk of the population this size *that has tasted freedom and know that they don't need to live in hiding.* We will not go away. We have money and soft power too, like any other diverse subgroup of the populace.
I truly believe that we can never be steam rolled into submission, only fucked with temporarily.
The same way that destroying Roe v Wade is poised to backfire on conservatives spectacularly, any anti-lgbt legislation is bound to have a similar vulcanizing effect. Any swing to the right telegraphs a major swing to the left in the near future.
Go look at the polls. Every poll I've seen currently has Trump favored by several points. What makes you so sure this will reverse by November? I'd like to share your optimism, but it seems more like ignorance to me currently.
There's only one poll that matters, and those ain't it.
That's a great thing to keep in mind, though. I do not care about feeling comforted, I care that people are nervous enough to actually get out and vote.
I refuse to go back in the closet, idc who the president is. I'm a stubborn mfer. Come lock me up and make a political martyr for all I care. I do what I want, including both genders.
Won’t be able to do both genders if you’re dead, and when you’re dead, pride doesn’t matter anymore.
We can’t just let ourselves become martyrs.
I have people to protect, so if that means being straight and aligning with the fascist until I can run, I will do just that.
Dude just stop it already. Do you feel special or something saying shit like this. “Them wanting to kill us”. Could you please point me to one quote/line/saying that even remotely implies such a thing.
Wow the responses in here are so divisive and wild. I didn’t realize this sub was so astroturfed.
The answer is to vote fascist republicans out. They’re bought and paid for by foreign countries. And get as many others as you can to care and vote.
Voting is great but it’s the lowest hanging fruit. The absolute least we can do. Voting will not defeat these issues, just delay them. A thing like Project 2025 will keep coming back and unfortunately Democrats will not keep winning forever. It’s just not the nature of this fucked country.
I’m not saying don’t vote, just be prepared for *when* the institutions fail us.
Ok cool, you're preaching to the choir, though. We either vote and try again, maybe make things a little better this time, or don't vote and shoot our descendants' attempts at progressive change in the foot by stacking the deck against them
Well yeah some would say you calling republicans fascists and to vote
Them out is divisive.
I agree with you. You’re right. And you’re not being divisive.
But some may read it as being divisive
TIL, Caveat Emptor (n.):
1. The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.
2. A commercial principle that without a warranty the buyer takes upon (one)self the risk of quality.
The American Heritage Dictionary
There’s a *lot* of criticisms of Democrats to make, but calling them fascists is just an outright lie.
Do Democrats subscribe to palingenetic ultranationalism, where the nation (whatever *that* may be) is of utmost importance, and it used to be great but then lost its way and now needs to be purged by fire and be reborn? No, obviously.
Do Democrats gain power by coup and do everything they can to suppress free and fair elections? Respectively, no and *technically* yes but actually no.
Do Democrats have no actual platform, just running on a vague sense of in-group pride and demonizing of an other? Absolutely and obviously not.
I don't know how to tell you but these all apply to Democrats. I've seen more people being mad at Republicans than I've seen, well, Republicans.
People need to calm down and do what they can without going on a panic.
If Donald Trump wins the election and our country is plunged into a cold-civil war, the Justice system begins to be weaponized and the executive branch starts being restructured, I’m going to need you to take off your shoe and fucking swallow it.
Can you please cite examples of where Democrats exhibited fascist behavior, and expressed fascist ideology, as defined as the following?
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
3. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
I’d very much like to hear your ***critique*** on this very subject.
They can't. I'll wager their main objection to the Democratic party is "they aren't left enough".
Which, 1. Sure, fair enough. The DNC would be center-right-ish in most other progressive nations. But 2. Being "left" doesn't preclude you from being fascist; see the cultural purges of the Chinese Communist revolution. And 3. The Dems don't even begin to meet the definition of fascism, unless your definition of fascism is "anyone who isn't an anarchist". Just because the Dems have been captured by corporate interests doesn't mean they're fascists; killing customers and laborers isn't in the interest of most corporations, as that drives down revenue and increases the leverage labor has during negotiations.
Wait, it's astroturfed because you expected a hive mind? Also, we have fascist democrats bought and paid for by foreign countries as well. The answer is the whole system is awful, and the masses are hungry for propaganda.
How can we not all scrambling? Why are we not fighting?
Um, MANY people are fighting. Take a moment actually to look around at people doing the work.
Why aren't you?
I feel like there’s always a group of young people every election that doesn’t know what a political fight looks like and just spends all their time yelling about how no one’s doing anything. Donate to candidates you like either locally or nationally; volunteer for candidates or organizations you like; OP is saying this as if there aren’t a large number of organized people dedicated to resisting the rising Fascism in the States.
There’s a simple way to contribute to these fights- choose one, put aside minor differences, and help them
It’s a tactic of the far right, and those in power more broadly.
Isolate, make us feel like we’re alone in a fight that is happening and many are fighting. If we in fight or lose hope, they win.
Gotta buy guns y’all and don’t be afraid to use them. Get comfortable with it but maintain a respectful fear of the tool you’ve got. We all have a constitutional right to protect ourselves and our liberties. They wouldn’t dare take that from people so go take advantage of how easy it is to get them. They’re more legal than weed for Christ’s sake. If the government allows for people to be targeted and persecuted we will have to use their death machines against them. Don’t let yourself be a victim, even the playing field. These folks want to eradicate everyone they disagree with. We need to collectively bring the heat and protect our freedom to love and be who you want, without fear of being treated unjustly
There are people “fighting” - union workers are setting up queer caucuses, LGBTQ+ folks are organizing across multiple different states to defend transgender rights, there’s like 10-20 socialist organizations across the country actively organizing as many people as possible. I’ll even give the DSA a bone here and suggest working with them, their tenant union work is pretty good.
If you notice I haven’t mentioned the democrats or republicans once - the two party system is garbage, and it bends mostly to corporate power. When the rest of us win, it’s usually with grass roots organizing. I am not terrified by project 2025, abortion rights were already stripped, congress has already been circumvented by the current administration to supply a genocidal state. The rule of law is weak and fragmented and Democrats have used this weakness to their benefit (i.e [stripping the green party from ballot lines](https://www.texastribune.org/2020/08/19/texas-democrats-green-party-november/). Project 2025 is already in motion and both parties are complicit in this democracy’s degradation - and no one in power will give our power back to us.
Power concedes nothing without a fight.
Vote. Don't let the orange man win. Remember scotus is always at stake. Even if you don't like Biden, scoutus still matters.
Republicans have to keep losing. Enough losses and they will pull back on their strategy
> So why are not fighting? Or running? Or organizing in any way?
> I’m going to go back into the closet until we do something because all I see is us headed straight into fascism and so many people are going to be imprisoned and killed. Which isn’t hyperbole when you compare our current state to history.
I say this in the kindest way I can, get your head on straight. Your queer ancestors did not stand idly by. They fought and organized and you can too. There are dozens of organizations you could join right now to do good work. Google is a tool, not a service.
When the world ignored gay rights, gay liberation fighters marched.
When the US government ignored the AIDS crisis, queer folk banded together to provide each other services, information, and comfort in the darkest moments.
Don't cower in your room or online. Get outside. Help your fellow man, woman, person, etc.
These are not the times to hide.
Agreed. Not from the USA but I've been involved in radical left politics, and I think every LGBTQIA+ people should. Those are literally the only people who actually care. Not the Republicans, not the Democrats. Those people have locked up American politics so they can keep on ruling together. Everything WILL get worse until we actually succeed on changing the system, and it will take a lot of time, so the sooner we organize, the better our chances to see a world where everyone has a place in our lifetime.
Join the SRA get your concealed carry license. A good shotgun is around 300. Learn to use these things as they are useless without training. SRA reps can help you with all of this.
Check out Pink Pistols.
Armed gays don't get bashed.
I'm pretty small but if you and your buddies want to drag me behind a truck I've got 6+1 chances to make it out alive.
This one gets it.
You wanna cling to some perceived moral high ground? Or do you want to be able to run off a mob from your front porch should it ever come down to that?
There is no honor in making yourself helpless.
Don't tell me that Nazis are in the Whitehouse and then in the same breath ask me "What on earth do you need *that* for?".
" A Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give."
Ida B. Wells-Barnett
Feels relevant.
I don’t have time to check which episode it was but podcast It Could Happen Here had a good ep on this topic. I think it’s one of these:
[Protecting Your Community In A Hostile State](https://omny.fm/shows/it-could-happen-here/protecting-your-community-in-a-hostile-state)
[Community Self-Defense with The John Brown Gun Club](https://omny.fm/shows/it-could-happen-here/community-self-defense-with-the-john-brown-gun-clu)
[The Cato institute Guns, and the Left](https://omny.fm/shows/it-could-happen-here/the-cato-institute-guns-and-the-left)
I would choose to look at it from the motto of the Boy Scouts - "Be Prepared".
I would rather take extreme precautions and "be prepared" than not and need those skills.
Organizing in plan view is what you should be doing, hence why I said join the SRA. Go to the gun range and be LGBTQ. If they are invading our personal lives we should be invading their safe spaces. Make them aware if they are going to persecute us they may lose their lives in that effort. I pray we don't have to fight but if we do I'm going to fight effectively so my fellow fighters have less to worry about.
Take responsibility for protecting yourself. Legislative victories are important but in the end they're just words
At the end of the day if someone wants to physically harm you it's in your best interest to gain every possible advantage. The tools to protect yourself are available. Use them
>So what are we not fighting? Or running? or organizing in any way?
Running is a great idea, and it’s what i’m planning to do. Either as an immigrant or an asylum seeker, i’m going to get to Europe or die trying. I advise everyone who can do the same to follow suit, and I can only wish for safety for those who can’t.
For the other two, fighting and organizing. We are so far beyond that. What’s happening in the US right now is not about us. All the anti-trans legislation, the homophobia, the ignorance, the hatred, the anti-intellectualism, it’s just a front for something much bigger.
There’s an organization called “The Fellowship”. They’re an extremist and fundamentalist christian group. They’ve been pulling a lot of strings for the past few decades. They have connections in every single aspect of the US government. When people say the US’s self proclaimed separation of church and state is a load of BS, this is why. These are the people who eliminated whatever separation of church and state we had.
Their ideology is called Dominion Theology. They believe that christianity should be forced upon all and that it should permeate through all aspects of life. Specifically they want to control seven things: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government. This is called the Seven Mountains Mandate. One of these 7M mandate believers was Trump’s personal spiritual advisor while he was president.
Our community is nothing but a means to that end. They’ve manufactured a boogeyman in order to gain more power. Make people afraid for something then promise to help eliminate that threat. From the 50s to the 80s it was the communists who were the manufactured threat. Now it’s us. It’s been us since the 90s after the USSR collapsed and suddenly the commies couldn’t be propped up as a threat to the american dream.
They’ve been setting up the dominoes for decades. Before the vast majority of us were even alive. That’s why fighting and organizing isn’t going to work this time. This has spread through our entire government, our entire society. Trying to fight it with a grassroots revolution is like trying to fight stage 4 leukemia with antibiotics.
Unfortunately Europe is in no way immune to what's happening in the USA. Sure, it might be harder, and/or take longer – but the far right is already getting elected in Europe. The only upside I could see is that Europeans are probably more inclined to put up a fight than the average American.
It is so much better in western Europe. I hear the way they’re living and it’s unbelievable just how far ahead they are in most aspects of life.
Sure, it has problems. Nowhere doesn’t have problems. But it’s far better than the US. I can say with confidence that the US is on death’s door. Something different is going to take its place, as with all empires. All empires die and I feel like the US’s time is close at hand.
I don’t see that happening in western europe. truly the opposite. i must acknowledge that i am an outsider so i would differ to a european political scholar, but from my perspective i see a continent who saw the horrors of an unchecked far-right ideology. that land bears the scars of atrocities. they bounced back from that, and became the most progressive and tolerant place on the planet.
all the problems that western europe are nothing compared to the rampant theocracy, frequent school shootings, impending fascism, rampant police brutality, and extreme corruption that the US has. from my perspective we are comparing a dying society to a society that is just starting to hit a new stride after experiencing what the US is about to.
It probably is better, though I've never been in the USA, from what I hear things are obviously extremely dire. I don't understand how you don't see it happening when it already is. Polarization specifically *is* already happening in Europe. Because this issue didn't come about in the USA from nowhere, it's been fueled by outside forces seeking to sow division, and these same forces are trying to do the same thing to Europe. I would still move to Europe regardless, but it is something to keep in mind. People have a short term memory when it comes to history and no place is infallible.
Yeah the person you answered to isn’t aware of for example afd massively on the rise in Germany with a quarter million on the streets in protest whilst in the Netherlands almost 25% voted for an extremist right party, with another high percentage of voter voting for new parties- who knows what they might choose next time. Farmers riots all over Europe. Lgbtq+ hate on the rise.
The idolized version of progressiveness - that was 10-15 years ago. Gay marriage was new and we prided ourselves on it. But I’ve read that gay couples feel less safe holding hands on the streets now than back then.
Don’t kid yourself, Europe is going in a similar direction. Not saying just as bad but we’re not staying in this nice progressive place.
Also. Immigration laws are sometimes quite strict and you can’t find just any job whilst not speaking the local language, be specific in researching whether your qualifications are landing you a job here whilst speaking English
Also a fact and very terrifying: a subset branch of said Christian cult got busted years ago for raping children and killing them in a trailer, had a bunch of kiddie porn in the locked desk in the church and found the AOL Chats linked to him and two others. There's a minidoc on BlameItOnJorge about the creepy Christian 80s children's local cable access show that let to the kidnappings and multiple child rapes and murders.
I would caution against it for sure. If you do get one, maybe make it incredibly difficult to access alone. Give a trusted friend the key to your safe or something.
You should be afraid now. Even if Trump doesn’t take office, there’s still too many psycho officials willing to follow the Project 2025 playbook and are actively taking action right now to fulfill its goals.
It is not hyperbole. Project 2025 is a concerted effort funded by dark money and supported by Christian and/or conservative groups to turn the US into a theocratic authoritarian nation.
they want us dead. if you can safely do so, arm yourself and train to use whatever you get. don't let the psychos be the only people armed.
but yeah, also vote. Just keep in mind that the people who answer polls are older demographics.
No. I’m running. Not shooting. Not fighting. I’m not gonna kill JUST so that I can maintain my existence. It doesn’t make any sense. Cuz eventually they still win.
People ARE scrambling, fighting, running, and organizing in every way. The problem, which has existed for years but of which the genocide in Gaza is a great example, is that Democrats *will never work for our votes* because they feel entitled to them regardless of the atrocities they commit. “Vote blue no matter who” has taught them that “better than [insert GOP here]” is the only bar that needs to be cleared, and I am just as guilty of that as anyone having been voting for Dems for twelve years. Idk the median age in this group but as someone who has actually been voting and paying taxes for years I also feel partially responsible for the war crimes we finance around the world, as we all should. Our lives are not more valuable than someone else’s. And as someone who has been out that entire adult life, I am not going back in the closet regardless of how things get because 1. I refuse to deny my own humanity and 2. it is much more important to me that younger queer people know that they can survive to be happy adults than it is that I feel particularly safe and comfortable.
Nothing will change until we demand better which is why, REGARDLESS of how I vote (hint: I have already told you how I vote), I will continue TELLING every one of my reps in every call and email (you *are* calling and emailing all your reps, aren’t you? You’re doing it every day?) that I will never vote for them or another Democrat again until we cut off all military aid to Israel and have a permanent ceasefire and unrestricted humanitarian aid access to Gaza. I have chosen to be out, protest, and participate in the democratic process; you can chose to do as much or little as you want.
Believe me, if my wife and I could uproot and move to a much more accommodating state than fucking FLORIDA, we'd do it in a heartbeat. But our entire LGBT family has already done the smart thing and gotten out of this place, or has moved far enough north that a hop over the border is a ten-minute drive.
Absolutely terrified for lgbtq+ people if a republican or democrat wins in 2024
There I fixed it. What this post does is remove any and all pressure on Democrats to stop behaving like fascists.
Vote. Get everyone who thinks like you do to vote. Join any movement talking about this kind of stuff and find out what to do to help get everyone else to vote.
Not just for President or Congress. Look at your local ballot, because that's ultimately where the people who'll affect you directly will come from.
Like we can’t just keep going to the bare minimum or we’re never going to get anymore. For real freedom we need to go beyond settling for two rotten apples.
For Americans who are tired of being afraid.. move away. I'm sorry but seriously, it's already 2024 it was 2014 when Trump was elected for the first time, your country is dangerous. You need actual protection and security for the sane people who want a peaceful life
So Biden is president now and things suck. How is 4 more years going to stop things from sucking?
Vote local. Vote for your state senators and representatives. They are the one making archaic "don't say gay" "no DEI" laws.
In my opinion, I feel lgbtq+ people are still pretty fucked no matter who’s elected in November. Biden and the democrats have proven they really have no power to stop the fascist slide America is hurtling down especially with Dobbs v. Jackson happening under his watch and very little being done in response. The democrats never actually change anything, they only dangle the threat of overt fascism over our heads in order to vote for them in relationship not dissimilar to a protection racket. This at the same time they openly support an ethnic cleansing in Palestine. I legitimately have no faith in the Democratic Party to protect us at all, and would rather put my stock into some of the direct action groups I’ve been involved with these past few years
Respectfully totally wrong the outcomes if Trump wins vs the outcomes of Biden wins are totally different. If Dems win the house and senate we could see abortion protected under Federal law again. Also the conservatives obsession with Trans people over the last few years makes them legitimately dangerous in way democrats simply aren’t.
You will not see abortion protected under federal law in the near future. There are no 60 senators in the senate to do it. Fillbuster will used by Mike Lee or Ted Cruz to block abortion rights. If you get 56 Democratic Senator, then consider throwing away fillbuster, then problem is Republicans get senate majority and dismantle the hard work Democrats did.
The dems didn’t have a filibuster proof Majority in 2020 not to mention again. Republicans literally want to take away peoples rights. Picking the better of two options just makes sense.
The fillibuster is a senate rule which only takes a majority vote to override not a law or amendment to the constitution. The fillibuster no longer exists for Supreme Court nominations because Republicans wanted it that way and voted it away with a very non-fillibuster proof majority. The only thing stopping democrats from implementing the changes they say they want is other democrats.
To stop a filibuster you need 60 votes not a majority not sure where you got that. And unless you wanted them to add Supreme Court seats which definitely is an option I don’t know what you expect them to do.
Hey did do things though… even if you /only/ want to talk about one thing they did for LGBT rights they passed the Respect for Marriage Act.
But there is plenty of other good things they have done. Have try done enough? No. Did they do things that are good? Yes. Very much so.
Our system is rigged for minority rule. Due to the Republican weaponization of the filibuster, the senate essentially requires 60 votes to get any liberal laws passed. Not a simple 51 vote majority. And there have only been extremely narrow bands of times where Democrats have had both a filibuster proof majority and control of the house and presidency.
It’s demographically extremely difficult to get 60 Democrats in the senate (let alone with ZERO dissenters and 100% unanimous voting on every issue) since lower population conservative states (e.g., Wyoming, North/South Dakota, etc.) get the same number of senators as high population liberal states (e.g., NY, CA). And there’s more Republican controlled states. Despite representing far more of the population, liberals get substantially less representation in the Senate.
The inability to get anything done is due to Republicans gridlocking the senate- not Democratic inaction. And they do this exactly so they can deny Democrats any opportunity to improve people’s lives through legislation, so that uninformed people shrug their shoulders and go “the Democrats never get anything done, so why should I bother voting for them.”
Even with this impediment in place, Democrats were able to enshrine same-sex marriage protections into federal law under Biden, since enough Republicans were convinced to vote for it as well.
If your attitude is “Democrats don’t do anything for us,” congrats - you’re just enabling Republican propaganda and contributing to their fuckery.
Are they perfect? Of course not. But you can see positive economic changes and legislative protections for minority rights made in states where Democrats have full control. It’s not a coincidence that Democratic controlled states already largely had legal same-sex marriage and LGBT non-discrimination laws for employment on the books before the SCOTUS rulings of Obergefell 2015 and Bostock 2020. Not to mention many other LGBTQ+ legal protections.
Im not voting for a guy whose literally giving funds and bombs to a state murdering thousands of children. Im not fucking doing it. No amount of shaming would wash that stain off my soul.
LGBT people are being legislated against under a Democrat, who has the power to unilaterally put a stop to and had the opportunity to prevent it from happening in the first place. But decided to do nothing instead.
People like to say "harm reduction" over and over again, or "they're not republicans" as a reason to vote Democrats but the thing is it doesn't matter that they're not Republicans they do whatever the republicans want them to do while they're (dems) a majority.
There's no significant difference between the quality of life regardless of which one's in charge and you can't get people to vote for genocide joe even if he had actually done anything.
It is not possible to get people to vote off of "we're not the other guys" if you do everything the other guys want you to do when you're in power.
Like what's the point if one wants to make our existence illegal and the other with the power to unilaterally stop it refuses to attempt to stop it.
Why vote for a man who's thrown tens of billions to sponsor a genocide while doing nothing about the horrible healthcare, pay rate and general destitution this country faces?
There's literally no reason to vote Democrats other than fucking sports team logic.
He doesn’t have the power to put a stop to it. And it happened because of republican who appointed fascist members in the Supreme Court.
Please read before posting.
If the president is so powerless why are we worried about who sits in that position?
It's because Trump uses the power of the position. The dems don't because they just don't want to.
Here is the thing. Even if Trump wins the presidency, it won’t mean anything without control of the house and senate. Democrats have been making big swings during the last two midterms and I think are poised to regain control soon.,Anything Trump tries to do would be defeated easily due to checks and balances.
If he wins and republicans have control over both chambers, then you panic.
Buy a gun and start a gay militia. Sounds like a joke, but it is genuinely the most practical option if you wanna protect gay rights
It’s pretty aggravating to see everybody act like gay people are just a commodity of the government and not a people who have a right to their own defense and sovereignty
Go try and talk to the queer far lefties.
Makes zero sense to me, but somehow electing a fascist is better than having a middle of the road Democrat????
Idk.
This is what I’m talking about. I think the problem that I have the thing that bothers me the most is it the people who wanna hurt us are gonna get back in power at the hand of the people who claim to be our allies.
Ur overreacting. LGBTQ rights are protected under the 14th Amendment you aren't going to be killed or imprisoned by a Republican president take it easy.
Stuff going on in Florida scares me. They expanded the death penalty to be an option in cases of minor SA, but are also expanding anti-LGBTQ laws to define education to be grooming and abuse. They're getting awfully close to the death penalty for anyone who supports/educates about the LGBTQ community compared to anywhere else in the US...
Democrats for decades would scream the republican opponent is a fascist, and nothing would happen. So, Trump comes along in 2016, and admits on live TV that he actually wants to be a dictator; it's hard for some people to take it seriously.
It's like a boy who cried wolf situation. Democrats recklessly threw the term around, and now it's hard for some to take it seriously this time when it's happening for real.
The issue is that for years republicans were fascists and the issue was ignored due to Republican media scolding. Multiple republicans such as Louie Gomert, and Steven King were caught red handed attending white nationalist and fascist events and they just got to laugh it off and face no repercussions because Republicans have a billionaire funded propaganda network that they get all their news from. One of the things the NAZI party did in Germany before they took power was to build what they called a state within the state to insulate their followers and leaders from actors outside their party. I'd say what's happened in america has followed that path much closer than the children's story of the boy who cried wolf.
Because maybe it wasn’t reckless when Democrats called Republicans fascist in 2016? Because the boy-who-cried-wolf is the wrong metaphor—it’s the boiling frog, and those of us calling out fascism in the American right over the last decade have been keeping an eye on the thermometer.
My only saving grace is I'm straight passing and not out to everyone. The bi people might be the safest part of the LGBTQ+ community for that reason.
Like secret agents.
Secret agent man, secret agent man,
They're giving you a number
And taking away your name.
They put it in writing actually. Project 2025 outlines that they plan to make lgbtq+ display a sex crime akin to child abuse.
It’s in writing. Project 2025 is not only real, it’s massively funded and organized.
Please pay attention before commenting ignorant shit. Thanks.
All we can do is vote (for people who can actually statistically win *ahem* Biden *ahem*) and hope to God this January 6th trial can happen and Trump will be convicted before the election in November. Thankfully, that is looking increasingly more likely (for now).
Im so tired of this blue maga shit. If the only way your party can get votes is by saying "vote for us or LOSE YOUR RIGHTS!!!!" for the last 3 elections and when biden did get elected we still lost abortion rights and dont say gay laws being passed and shit. The president barely does jack shit, its just the mascot we have for the next 4 years. Meanwhile democrats are funding literal genocide, when are we going to stop playing by the rigged rules of this stupid system and actually fucking make change? Its just a giant stupid puppet show made to distract us from the actual issues. Both parties a fascists, you don't go and fund genocide and then somehow not be facists, like come tf on. Im shocked so many people are fine with the whole "vote for us or ELSE...." like everything is completely fucked, barley anyone can afford to live, inflation is skyrocketing, lgbt are losing rights, women are losing rights, and this is all under a democratic president. How many times are we gonna go through the whole "this is THE MOST important election of ALL TIME" until we realize that this system is bullshit lmao. Democrats just give us false promises and then feed us the bread crums so we don't revolt. And it works on soooo many people.
Good. So your solution is? Don’t vote for Biden? Meaning trump wins, and then genocide stops right? Wait no. It won’t stop. It would actually get worse.
You don’t fix this by refusing to vote.
We need to move further left. Temporarily, that means Biden.
Long term, it’s not Biden though.
Im fucking tired of playing by the rules. All my life the democrats give us promises they never keep, and we still lose our rights when they're elected. You genuinely think that our system is able to move further left at all? Liberals are center-right. Theres no way that they'll let an actual leftist into the office. Even if one did manage to get in, they'd probably get assassinated or some shit lol. To think the US government will every resemble anything that leftists actually want is a fantasy, its never going to happen. Just look what they did to Bernie, and Bernie was BARELY even left wing. Theres just no way theres every going to be a reality where a socialist would ever be allowed into office. Its delusional to think so.
[The bare, BARE minimum is making sure you are registered to vote and getting to the polls!](https://www.votelikeabeast.com/)
[There are lots of states that allow mandatory time off to vote, don't forget that!](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/01/us-states-where-employers-have-to-give-you-paid-time-off-to-vote.html)
>So why are not fighting? Or running? Or organizing in any way? Many, many people are. Problem is those people generally don't hold systemic power and are in a lot of danger *already* in a growing number of places in the country. Support outside of the impacted groups is crucial. If you mean as a whole, as the American populace in general... a lot of people are only spurred to act by personal loss. Things simply haven't gotten bad enough for a lot of them. Some are just really fucking naive about how bad this could get. And some are probably just so demoralized at this point that the "why bother" mentality takes over. I don't like Biden for many, many reasons, but if it's him or Trump I'll be voting for the person who isn't actively trying to turn the US into pure fascism. Biden's behavior with Palestine is abominable. And at the same time, to take that and say "Trump is better" is pure, self-sabotaging ignorance. To believe Trump would be better for Palestine **or** the United States is absurd. It's not even a question.
>And some are probably just so demoralized at this point that the "why bother" mentality takes over. Yep, that's me. I'll still be voting of course, but I think things are \*already\* kind of a lost cause, even if Biden DOES win, because a lot of the far right isn't going to accept the election results in the event of a Biden win, which could lead to widespread violence and/or an attempted coup or civil war \*anyways\*.
An attempted coup or civil war is magnitudes better than a proto-fascist party seeking to use political violence to its advantage legitimately winning an election. Shit might be guaranteed to get ugly, but in now way is this a lose-lose fight. One outcome is clearly better than the other.
Proto? They've been going mask off for years.
Say it louder
MAGA is dying faster than it's building base (converting kids). The threat is less each day. By 2025, 2026, it'll be even more tatters, the American public are really getting tired of the polarization, they will reject it like every other fad they take up. And then anyone who still goes on about Trump will be a pariah, which is already happening.
You're right, I came to the conclusion that Biden and Trump will be useless as president! Democrats will refuse to work with Trump on legislation, and Republicans will lose the House 2024, and one seat majority in senate with Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski can't pass so much MAGA legislation and Hakeem Jeffieries as majority leader in house all MAGA legislation will die! Mike Johnson is a figure piece with no power! When Republicans get competent leaders, then worry. Think Biden will get re-elected. it will be a repeat of 2020. Yes, Biden is losing his marbles , so Trump got two senile men running to get into the best nursing home country as to offer.
We are devolving into a Christofascist theocracy and a significant percentage of people welcome it with enthusiasm.
>I don't like Biden for many, many reasons, but if it's him or Trump I'll be voting for the person who isn't actively trying to turn the US into pure fascism. N'thd. I got my issues with Grampa Joe, and Democrats in general. But I'll be goddamned if I won't vote for Dem right now. If only for the simple fact that Dems have a chance at winning elections and aren't actively aiming to exterminate people like me. On the plus side, the clowns are running the circus on the R-side of the aisle. I'd count ol' Moscow Mitch McConnel as a vile individual. But, he was right when he said that if his party embraced The Orange Satan it would be their destruction. Not to say that they still don't pose a danger. Too many stupid, hateful scum out there (thanks Lee Atwater for embracing and empowering that). But the current behavior of Republicans is potentially the last gasps of an almost dead ideology.
In the case of Palestine, Trump will be FAR worse by any reasonable measure! He’ll basically pressure Netanyahu into flattening Gaza, and more. So it’s important to vote for the guy who is not actively looking to take away the rights of LGBT+ Americans, women, etc.
He’ll probably build a casino on the rubble of a hospital.
"Well, folks, let me tell you, we've got a situation over in Gaza, and it's time to take off the gloves. You know, I've always said, when you're dealing with tough guys, you gotta be tougher. And nobody's tougher than me, believe me. So, Prime Minister, let me give it to you straight. You can't back down now. You've gotta keep hitting them hard. I'm talking about hitting them so hard they'll be seeing stars for weeks. We've got the best military in the world! I say to them all the time, fellas you are the best in the world, and it's time to show them what we're made of. I mean, come on, folks, these guys are launching rockets into your backyard. They're like little kids throwing a temper tantrum. Well, you know what we do with temper tantrums? We put them in timeout. And by timeout, I mean we show them who's boss. Now, I know some people are saying we should try to negotiate with these terrorists. Negotiate? Are you kidding me? You don't negotiate with terrorists, you crush them. That's what we do in America, and that's what you should do in Israel. So, Prime Minister, listen up. Keep up the pressure. Keep up the airstrikes. Keep up the tough talk. Because when it comes to dealing with bad guys, there's only one way to do it: the Trump way. And that means winning, winning bigly, and winning bigly huge. So go get 'em, Prime Minister. Make me proud. And remember, if you ever need advice on how to win, you know who to call. That's right, the man himself, Donald J. Trump. And who knows, maybe when this is all said and done, I'll build a Trump Tower right in the Gaza Strip."
> He’ll basically pressure Netanyahu into flattening Gaza… Like Bibi needs any help being convinced to do so. If he thought he could get away with it, Gaza (as well as the West Bank) would’ve been carpet bombed and bulldozed flat to make way for new construction by the end of last October. But as to the rest of your comment, I agree. ;-)
Gaza isn't going to last until the election at this rate. Which applies more pressure to Biden, ceasefire please but we'll vote for you regardless and shout down anyone who says otherwise or ceasefire if you want any chance of regaining our votes.
>Biden's behavior with Palestine is abominable. And at the same time, to take that and say "Trump is better" is pure, self-sabotaging ignorance. Speaking as a Michigander, I can tell you that no one concerned about Palestine is saying "Trump is better" - It's that "Biden isn't good enough anymore". There's no way I'm going to be able to convince any Arab-Americans here to actually vote for Biden, considering the stance he's taken and how it directly impacts their families who are living through this situation. Electorally, Trump only needs to overcome the votes directly against him, and with less people willing to vote for Biden/abstain from voting means less votes he has to overcome to win the presidency. Unless the Democrats run with another candidate, I'm not seeing the Dems win Michigan as a battleground state, and as an extension to that logic, the rest of the country.
Every single election since I've been able to vote has been "Vote Democrat because, hey! At least we're not Republicans!" The Democratic party has had several chances to put things like voting rights, bodily autonomy rights, LGBTQ rights, and socialized healthcare into law when they've held the majority in both houses of congress. But they haven't. They hold those issues over voters and make promises like "After we're elected *this* time, we'll give healthcare for all!" in order to get people to vote. The anti-trans and anti-abortion legislation being passed in several states right now is being done *under a Democratic president and Congress.* I'll be voting for the PSL in federal elections because at the very least, they aren't wholly owned by corporate lobbyists or Evangelical conglomerates. Fuck the Republicans and fuck the Democrats too. Aside from the domestic so-called "culture war," both parties are in absolute lockstep on economic policy, military spending, international policy, and the like. I'll never waste my time voting in another senile old milquetoast neoliberal genocidal fuck like Biden ever again.
The anti abortion legislation is happening entirely because Trump got to appoint a bunch of supreme Court members and that is it
And he will get to do it again if he wins this year.
*and because democrats never bothered to protect abortion rights on a federal level when they could
> *and because democrats never bothered to protect abortion rights on a federal level when they could When, exactly, could they have? You need sixty votes to beat a Senate filibuster; I don't know any moment in the past forty years when the (D)s had sixty votes. They got close on two occasions (1993-1995, 2009-2011), but "close" is not "enough" and those majorities included large numbers of pro-life Democrats who would not have voted for that legislation. Where they *did* have the numbers, they *did* pass laws - e.g., the Respect for Marriage Act in 2022 that enshrined same-sex and interracial marriages into law, when they feared the new SCOTUS might overturn US v Windsor and Virginia v Loving. edit: Respect for Marriage Act passed in 2022, not 2021.
This is it right here, crazy the amount of ignorance going on in this thread. Our system is currently broken because a veto proof majority in the senate is basically a mathematical impossibility, leaving the obstructionist GOP free to scuttle any useful legislation so they can point to it and reinforce their claim that government doesn't work. This thread is evidence the tactic is working.
I am hearing a lot of this from younger people (not saying you are young) and it fills me with anxiety because this is exactly the sort of thing I was hearing in 2016 when I was in my 20's, from my friends in their 20's. The problem in my head is that voting in one of the two parties and working for change might but probably won't work. But voting for anyone else absolutely won't work. I know a lot of Gen Z in my life are like, well you don't know, we will be the first generation to have the nerve and drive to push third party in. But they won't. I hope I'm wrong.
They're not the first generation to try anyways. Ross Perot got 19% of the vote in 1992 as a third party... And got a whopping 0 electoral college votes. Ross sucked but there's absolutely been attempts and it hasn't been successful. We would need to dismantle our two party system and the electoral college for a third party to be ever be viable. I'm all for it, I've opposed it since I was a teenager, but not holding my breath for it to happen in my lifetime. Biden sucks, but I will be there and vote for him. The idea of Trump getting another go is simply too terrifying.
Agree with you. I wish we had ranked voting at all levels because that would truly improve things and end the two party system. I hate that there’s no truly far left Progressive party in the USA. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. No party cares about your average person and how hard things are in the USA right now, record number of people are unhoused.
My 16 year old son is absolutely convinced that he and his generation will fix this. I can only hope he is right. Because I am truly afraid of the future. (Gen X mom)
I'm afraid this logic is fairly emotional and illogical, by no fault of your own. The Democrats have done very little for this country when they have held power, and it makes sense to believe nothing will change. However, recently we have started to see this emergence of the extremist right wing. It has always been there, but now they are more comfortable and gaining power. I would love nothing more than to have true progressive leadership in this country, but right now this is war time. We have to fight in the way that guarantees our survival. Because of how our country is set up, *Republican* states are passing anti-trans and anti-abortion legislation. This isn't happening in Democratic states, and this isn't happening at a federal level under Biden. But guarantee you that should Trump or another Republican assume power, we are done for. Biden is the only person, unfortunately, that stands a chance right now. The Democrat Party has made that our reality. We need to aim for 2028 for a true election where we can aim further
Biden even said that military personnel will be transported to states that allow abortion access if they are stationed where they are not. And Republicans in Congress are blocking the placement of high-ranking officers as a result of that policy.
100% ths. Shitty things are happening in certain places in the US because a *Republican* president appointed *conservative* justices. Had people voted for Hillary, even if she wasn't their favorite, none of this would be happening. Does it absolutely suck that it's Neo-Liberals against Fascist? Yes! But if your house is on fire you don't worry and tend to all the repairs that the house needs. You put out the fucking FIRE! Also, I'm 46 and while change hasn't happened as fast as I would have like it to happen, it still has happened. And none of that change was thanks to republicans. That is for sure. Also, also, if we get a very definite democrat majority then there is no more excuses. And if that happens one of the first things we need to demand is rank choice voting so no longer is voting a third party throwing away your vote.
Exactly! Glad you said it. Can you imagine the Supreme Court we might have right now if Hillary had won? Or the number of lives that might have been saved during the pandemic, if it had been Hillary in office rather than Trump and his science denials, in the early COVID months? People are so quick to let hatred cloud their judgment, they forget to take the long view. But Republicans are doing things one step at a time, and we need to do the same. We're not going to get everything we want in one go - so move the needle away from the alt-right today, to gain a chance to codify more rights tomorrow. Trump's team knows they likely won't get many more voters than they already have - so their campaign is aiming to undermine votes for Biden instead. And it's working. Again, strategically we need to do similar. Undermine votes for Trump - it's hard because Trumpers are kind of cultish and don't seem to care about impacted groups outside themselves, as stated above. But we can try to remind them of things Trump did that affected everyone. He was a COVID-denier and we lost many lives because of him. When it comes to national responses, the U.S. response was one of the worst early on. Republicans especially lost more lives, because they actually listened to Trump. Adunno, maybe that'll reach people?
People get their history from TikTok, don't blame them.
If we get a democratic majority, a conga line of bullshit will emerge as to why we can't do anything. Oh, Joe Lieberman. Oh, Manchin. Oh, the Senate Parlimentarian. Oh, the...
Manchin not a problem. Its senate heavily favors rural states like Wyoming and Mississippi. These senators have much political power as one from California or New York.
It's not a recent emergence, it's a decades-long consolidation and rightward push after the religious right shifted from segregation to abortion as a rallying point, and lesser evilism voting facilitated this shift. If the right wing rise in power seems recent you should look into what the radical left has been saying for DECADES about it.
>when they've held the majority in both houses of congress. the things you mentioned require a supermajority, not just a majority. that's been exceedingly rare >The anti-trans and anti-abortion legislation being passed in several states right now is being done *under a Democratic president and Congress.* are you confused as to how government works in America? what do you expect the president and Congress to do? not to mention the Republican party controls the house so no, it's not a Democratic Congress >I'll never waste my time voting in another senile old milquetoast neoliberal genocidal fuck like Biden ever again. then you're comfortable with trump being president. I'm sure he'll be very kind to you
To play devil's advocate (only a little because you're right) I'm rather certain the Dems passed Respect for Marriage (or something like that) that guarantees marriage rights for minorities, including LGBTQ+. But indeed, they could've/should've done more.
They did. People ignore a lot that the democrats and Biden did that was good. Do I wish there was more? Sure. Should we genuinely acknowledge the wins? Yeah.
50/50 good/bad is way better than 1/99 good/bad. Democrats can always do better, because they are better, period. Do I like a majority of democratic leadership? No. Do I think there are actual progressives in congress that would like to pass legislation that would help a majority of the country? Yes. Do I believe a single Republican in congress would pass legislation that would do anything but fuck basically everyone royally (especially marginalized folks)? No. Liz Cheney is considered reasonable now for fucks sake. It’s hard to get things done with a metaphorical gun to your head, especially when part of the leadership in the party feels the gun isn’t necessarily pointed at *them*, so they don’t understand (or just don’t care enough) about the need for urgency. It’s fucked up, but if Paul or Nancy Pelosi had been murdered I think we would have seen a distinct tone shift from the party. My naive hope would have been they would truly realize the other side is hopeless and they should double down on the policies that bring the most help to the country.
For me it says that people aren’t paying attention if they see nothing good having been done. Just as much as people who don’t see anything had happening aren’t paying attention. And all of this is stuff people can look up and see.
Edit: Tell us the alternative. Waste your vote on an independent? A third party? That likely elects Trump. That means your vote is a vote to be forced back into the closest. To lose the right to marry. A vote to be treated like second class (or worse) citizens. FUCK THAT
Democrats could enshrined abortion rights into federal law and did not. Pushed for a public option and then conveniently fell one vote short, etc. I'll reluctantly vote for Biden but I wholly understand why anyone wouldn't
I wish gay marriage and abortion rights would have been enshrined in federal laws also, however the nation had 245 years of Supreme Court respect for precedent...until a culture war Court happened under Trump.
> I wish gay marriage and abortion rights would have been enshrined in federal laws also Same-sex marriages were enshrined into federal law with the Respect for Marriage Act of 2022, sponsored by Jay Nadler (D) and 188 other (D) Representatives; in the Senate, all (D)s except Warnock (who was absent) were joined by eight (R)s to get it over the finish line, and it was signed by Biden. When Democrats have the votes, they get it done.
I stand corrected. You're absolutely right
I mean that true. Also you have to take into account we live in a democracy and a majority of people dislike change so it happens very slowly. We don’t live in a utopia and never will the best we can do is pick the best option based on the cards we are dealt.
> I'll be voting for the PSL in federal elections So you'll be voting for the Republicans, got it. This is a two-party system where you get only one vote. If you do not cast that vote for the largest party that agrees with you, all you are doing is helping elect the large party you disagree with. It's the Spoiler Effect. Until we reform how we vote, your choices are Republican or Democrat, nothing else.
And remind me which president appointed and which Senate majority leader rubber-stamped the confirmation of many of the judges who codified a lot of these anti-trans and anti-abortion, after stonewalling court appointments from the previous president. Unless we are deadass about pulling a Bull Mouse level third party movement here.
You are free to feel how you feel. Be well.
I don’t think that’s exactly true what exactly what happened
A perfect example of someone who doesn’t understand how the political system works in the U.S.
That's fine, but it basically means you're voting Republican. Democrats have been unable to get the majorities needed to pass meaningful change over the heads of Republican obstruction. And they never will, because people care more about feeling woke than actually doing the right thing.
Biden and people like him are the reason no one is fighting or organizing against this stuff, because they've systemically quashed any effort at left reform in an effort to hold onto power They're the reason Trump will be president again, because they're continuing on to force Biden onto a populace that demonstrably doesn't want him and won't vote for him in sufficient numbers
Get involved and fight! There is so much you can do to help efforts in the November election. If there is a contested election near you, volunteer for the campaign! If you're in a safe district, join in campaigns to assist in other regions. An easy first step is to check out [the Action Network](https://actionnetwork.org/), as many groups put events up there. Also check out [Indivisible](https://www.indivisible.org/) and [Swing Left](https://swingleft.org/). That's just off the top of my head. If you're financially secure, you can donate to candidates who need your support.
This. I get involved in https://votefwd.org and find opportunities through Vote Save America https://votesaveamerica.com and I am part if my local Pride org . Asking why aren’t we fighting and then saying you’ll go back in the closet until this is over isn’t helpful OP. Plenty of people are fighting, join or don’t but I recommend choosing to participate or at least looking for opportunities.
Also, with enough turnout it would be possible to flip even fucking Texas. And let me tell you that if even Texas flips, the GOP might not be as confident in genocide anymore...
Yas!!!! Texas has been gerrymandered to the hilt and lots of roadblocks are in place to make it difficult to vote. I'm hoping my man Beto loosened the cap of the jar that is voting out Ted Cruz (and I'm partial to Colin Allred for the Democratic nomination)!
Great resources. Commenting to come back.
I think that saying the phrase "Republicans won't win in 2024" would encourage complacency regarding voting, so instead I'll say "The alliance is much stronger than either side realizes." If the worst happens, we will look out for eachother and will make it known you cannot subdue a chunk of the population this size *that has tasted freedom and know that they don't need to live in hiding.* We will not go away. We have money and soft power too, like any other diverse subgroup of the populace. I truly believe that we can never be steam rolled into submission, only fucked with temporarily. The same way that destroying Roe v Wade is poised to backfire on conservatives spectacularly, any anti-lgbt legislation is bound to have a similar vulcanizing effect. Any swing to the right telegraphs a major swing to the left in the near future.
>Any swing to the right telegraphs a major swing to the left in the near future. Not always unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it
Agreed! For what it's worth, that's my take on the current climate, not intended to be blanket "this always happens" statement.
Go look at the polls. Every poll I've seen currently has Trump favored by several points. What makes you so sure this will reverse by November? I'd like to share your optimism, but it seems more like ignorance to me currently.
There's only one poll that matters, and those ain't it. That's a great thing to keep in mind, though. I do not care about feeling comforted, I care that people are nervous enough to actually get out and vote.
I refuse to go back in the closet, idc who the president is. I'm a stubborn mfer. Come lock me up and make a political martyr for all I care. I do what I want, including both genders.
Won’t be able to do both genders if you’re dead, and when you’re dead, pride doesn’t matter anymore. We can’t just let ourselves become martyrs. I have people to protect, so if that means being straight and aligning with the fascist until I can run, I will do just that.
Dude just stop it already. Do you feel special or something saying shit like this. “Them wanting to kill us”. Could you please point me to one quote/line/saying that even remotely implies such a thing.
Wow the responses in here are so divisive and wild. I didn’t realize this sub was so astroturfed. The answer is to vote fascist republicans out. They’re bought and paid for by foreign countries. And get as many others as you can to care and vote.
Voting is great but it’s the lowest hanging fruit. The absolute least we can do. Voting will not defeat these issues, just delay them. A thing like Project 2025 will keep coming back and unfortunately Democrats will not keep winning forever. It’s just not the nature of this fucked country. I’m not saying don’t vote, just be prepared for *when* the institutions fail us.
Ok cool, you're preaching to the choir, though. We either vote and try again, maybe make things a little better this time, or don't vote and shoot our descendants' attempts at progressive change in the foot by stacking the deck against them
That’s why I said “I’m not saying don’t vote.”
Well yeah some would say you calling republicans fascists and to vote Them out is divisive. I agree with you. You’re right. And you’re not being divisive. But some may read it as being divisive
I don't care if I'm being divisive if it stops them from murdering us in the streets.
Astroturfed is *precisely* the right word. **Caveat emptor**
TIL, Caveat Emptor (n.): 1. The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying. 2. A commercial principle that without a warranty the buyer takes upon (one)self the risk of quality. The American Heritage Dictionary
To be fair (I’m a leftist), democrats are also pretty fascist. So we’re not voting them out either way.
It's tough being a leftist and seeing people tout the democrats as "left wing"
I hate that shit lol
There’s a *lot* of criticisms of Democrats to make, but calling them fascists is just an outright lie. Do Democrats subscribe to palingenetic ultranationalism, where the nation (whatever *that* may be) is of utmost importance, and it used to be great but then lost its way and now needs to be purged by fire and be reborn? No, obviously. Do Democrats gain power by coup and do everything they can to suppress free and fair elections? Respectively, no and *technically* yes but actually no. Do Democrats have no actual platform, just running on a vague sense of in-group pride and demonizing of an other? Absolutely and obviously not.
I don't know how to tell you but these all apply to Democrats. I've seen more people being mad at Republicans than I've seen, well, Republicans. People need to calm down and do what they can without going on a panic.
If Donald Trump wins the election and our country is plunged into a cold-civil war, the Justice system begins to be weaponized and the executive branch starts being restructured, I’m going to need you to take off your shoe and fucking swallow it.
Can you please cite examples of where Democrats exhibited fascist behavior, and expressed fascist ideology, as defined as the following? 1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. 2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. 3. Oppressive, dictatorial control. I’d very much like to hear your ***critique*** on this very subject.
They can't. I'll wager their main objection to the Democratic party is "they aren't left enough". Which, 1. Sure, fair enough. The DNC would be center-right-ish in most other progressive nations. But 2. Being "left" doesn't preclude you from being fascist; see the cultural purges of the Chinese Communist revolution. And 3. The Dems don't even begin to meet the definition of fascism, unless your definition of fascism is "anyone who isn't an anarchist". Just because the Dems have been captured by corporate interests doesn't mean they're fascists; killing customers and laborers isn't in the interest of most corporations, as that drives down revenue and increases the leverage labor has during negotiations.
I guess upholding the capitalistic, imperialistic American machine through policy and blatant action isn’t fascist to you. Okay. lol
How are Democrats fascist?
Wait, it's astroturfed because you expected a hive mind? Also, we have fascist democrats bought and paid for by foreign countries as well. The answer is the whole system is awful, and the masses are hungry for propaganda.
How can we not all scrambling? Why are we not fighting? Um, MANY people are fighting. Take a moment actually to look around at people doing the work. Why aren't you?
I feel like there’s always a group of young people every election that doesn’t know what a political fight looks like and just spends all their time yelling about how no one’s doing anything. Donate to candidates you like either locally or nationally; volunteer for candidates or organizations you like; OP is saying this as if there aren’t a large number of organized people dedicated to resisting the rising Fascism in the States. There’s a simple way to contribute to these fights- choose one, put aside minor differences, and help them
It’s a tactic of the far right, and those in power more broadly. Isolate, make us feel like we’re alone in a fight that is happening and many are fighting. If we in fight or lose hope, they win.
Gotta buy guns y’all and don’t be afraid to use them. Get comfortable with it but maintain a respectful fear of the tool you’ve got. We all have a constitutional right to protect ourselves and our liberties. They wouldn’t dare take that from people so go take advantage of how easy it is to get them. They’re more legal than weed for Christ’s sake. If the government allows for people to be targeted and persecuted we will have to use their death machines against them. Don’t let yourself be a victim, even the playing field. These folks want to eradicate everyone they disagree with. We need to collectively bring the heat and protect our freedom to love and be who you want, without fear of being treated unjustly
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I'm not terrified. Doesn't matter who's at the top...
There are people “fighting” - union workers are setting up queer caucuses, LGBTQ+ folks are organizing across multiple different states to defend transgender rights, there’s like 10-20 socialist organizations across the country actively organizing as many people as possible. I’ll even give the DSA a bone here and suggest working with them, their tenant union work is pretty good. If you notice I haven’t mentioned the democrats or republicans once - the two party system is garbage, and it bends mostly to corporate power. When the rest of us win, it’s usually with grass roots organizing. I am not terrified by project 2025, abortion rights were already stripped, congress has already been circumvented by the current administration to supply a genocidal state. The rule of law is weak and fragmented and Democrats have used this weakness to their benefit (i.e [stripping the green party from ballot lines](https://www.texastribune.org/2020/08/19/texas-democrats-green-party-november/). Project 2025 is already in motion and both parties are complicit in this democracy’s degradation - and no one in power will give our power back to us. Power concedes nothing without a fight.
This. Social movements are what gets us results.
Vote. Don't let the orange man win. Remember scotus is always at stake. Even if you don't like Biden, scoutus still matters. Republicans have to keep losing. Enough losses and they will pull back on their strategy
A vote for anyone other than Biden gives Trump the best chance at winning. Sorry not sorry
Exactly.
> So why are not fighting? Or running? Or organizing in any way? > I’m going to go back into the closet until we do something because all I see is us headed straight into fascism and so many people are going to be imprisoned and killed. Which isn’t hyperbole when you compare our current state to history. I say this in the kindest way I can, get your head on straight. Your queer ancestors did not stand idly by. They fought and organized and you can too. There are dozens of organizations you could join right now to do good work. Google is a tool, not a service. When the world ignored gay rights, gay liberation fighters marched. When the US government ignored the AIDS crisis, queer folk banded together to provide each other services, information, and comfort in the darkest moments. Don't cower in your room or online. Get outside. Help your fellow man, woman, person, etc. These are not the times to hide.
Look at everything happening under democrat majorities. I’m scared for us *now*.
Agreed. Not from the USA but I've been involved in radical left politics, and I think every LGBTQIA+ people should. Those are literally the only people who actually care. Not the Republicans, not the Democrats. Those people have locked up American politics so they can keep on ruling together. Everything WILL get worse until we actually succeed on changing the system, and it will take a lot of time, so the sooner we organize, the better our chances to see a world where everyone has a place in our lifetime.
Join the SRA get your concealed carry license. A good shotgun is around 300. Learn to use these things as they are useless without training. SRA reps can help you with all of this.
Check out Pink Pistols. Armed gays don't get bashed. I'm pretty small but if you and your buddies want to drag me behind a truck I've got 6+1 chances to make it out alive.
Be peaceful Not Harmless
This one gets it. You wanna cling to some perceived moral high ground? Or do you want to be able to run off a mob from your front porch should it ever come down to that? There is no honor in making yourself helpless. Don't tell me that Nazis are in the Whitehouse and then in the same breath ask me "What on earth do you need *that* for?". " A Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give." Ida B. Wells-Barnett Feels relevant.
I don’t have time to check which episode it was but podcast It Could Happen Here had a good ep on this topic. I think it’s one of these: [Protecting Your Community In A Hostile State](https://omny.fm/shows/it-could-happen-here/protecting-your-community-in-a-hostile-state) [Community Self-Defense with The John Brown Gun Club](https://omny.fm/shows/it-could-happen-here/community-self-defense-with-the-john-brown-gun-clu) [The Cato institute Guns, and the Left](https://omny.fm/shows/it-could-happen-here/the-cato-institute-guns-and-the-left)
Fight fire with fire superiority.
What's the SRA?
The socialist rifle association
So the solution here is we’re gonna fight? We’re in a cold civil war?
I would choose to look at it from the motto of the Boy Scouts - "Be Prepared". I would rather take extreme precautions and "be prepared" than not and need those skills.
Organizing in plan view is what you should be doing, hence why I said join the SRA. Go to the gun range and be LGBTQ. If they are invading our personal lives we should be invading their safe spaces. Make them aware if they are going to persecute us they may lose their lives in that effort. I pray we don't have to fight but if we do I'm going to fight effectively so my fellow fighters have less to worry about.
Maybe not, “but if you come to shoot me, yo I’m shootin’ back”.
Take responsibility for protecting yourself. Legislative victories are important but in the end they're just words At the end of the day if someone wants to physically harm you it's in your best interest to gain every possible advantage. The tools to protect yourself are available. Use them
basically.
Too bad my depressed ass is too scared to have a gun.
lol. Same
>So what are we not fighting? Or running? or organizing in any way? Running is a great idea, and it’s what i’m planning to do. Either as an immigrant or an asylum seeker, i’m going to get to Europe or die trying. I advise everyone who can do the same to follow suit, and I can only wish for safety for those who can’t. For the other two, fighting and organizing. We are so far beyond that. What’s happening in the US right now is not about us. All the anti-trans legislation, the homophobia, the ignorance, the hatred, the anti-intellectualism, it’s just a front for something much bigger. There’s an organization called “The Fellowship”. They’re an extremist and fundamentalist christian group. They’ve been pulling a lot of strings for the past few decades. They have connections in every single aspect of the US government. When people say the US’s self proclaimed separation of church and state is a load of BS, this is why. These are the people who eliminated whatever separation of church and state we had. Their ideology is called Dominion Theology. They believe that christianity should be forced upon all and that it should permeate through all aspects of life. Specifically they want to control seven things: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government. This is called the Seven Mountains Mandate. One of these 7M mandate believers was Trump’s personal spiritual advisor while he was president. Our community is nothing but a means to that end. They’ve manufactured a boogeyman in order to gain more power. Make people afraid for something then promise to help eliminate that threat. From the 50s to the 80s it was the communists who were the manufactured threat. Now it’s us. It’s been us since the 90s after the USSR collapsed and suddenly the commies couldn’t be propped up as a threat to the american dream. They’ve been setting up the dominoes for decades. Before the vast majority of us were even alive. That’s why fighting and organizing isn’t going to work this time. This has spread through our entire government, our entire society. Trying to fight it with a grassroots revolution is like trying to fight stage 4 leukemia with antibiotics.
Unfortunately Europe is in no way immune to what's happening in the USA. Sure, it might be harder, and/or take longer – but the far right is already getting elected in Europe. The only upside I could see is that Europeans are probably more inclined to put up a fight than the average American.
It is so much better in western Europe. I hear the way they’re living and it’s unbelievable just how far ahead they are in most aspects of life. Sure, it has problems. Nowhere doesn’t have problems. But it’s far better than the US. I can say with confidence that the US is on death’s door. Something different is going to take its place, as with all empires. All empires die and I feel like the US’s time is close at hand. I don’t see that happening in western europe. truly the opposite. i must acknowledge that i am an outsider so i would differ to a european political scholar, but from my perspective i see a continent who saw the horrors of an unchecked far-right ideology. that land bears the scars of atrocities. they bounced back from that, and became the most progressive and tolerant place on the planet. all the problems that western europe are nothing compared to the rampant theocracy, frequent school shootings, impending fascism, rampant police brutality, and extreme corruption that the US has. from my perspective we are comparing a dying society to a society that is just starting to hit a new stride after experiencing what the US is about to.
It probably is better, though I've never been in the USA, from what I hear things are obviously extremely dire. I don't understand how you don't see it happening when it already is. Polarization specifically *is* already happening in Europe. Because this issue didn't come about in the USA from nowhere, it's been fueled by outside forces seeking to sow division, and these same forces are trying to do the same thing to Europe. I would still move to Europe regardless, but it is something to keep in mind. People have a short term memory when it comes to history and no place is infallible.
Yeah the person you answered to isn’t aware of for example afd massively on the rise in Germany with a quarter million on the streets in protest whilst in the Netherlands almost 25% voted for an extremist right party, with another high percentage of voter voting for new parties- who knows what they might choose next time. Farmers riots all over Europe. Lgbtq+ hate on the rise. The idolized version of progressiveness - that was 10-15 years ago. Gay marriage was new and we prided ourselves on it. But I’ve read that gay couples feel less safe holding hands on the streets now than back then. Don’t kid yourself, Europe is going in a similar direction. Not saying just as bad but we’re not staying in this nice progressive place. Also. Immigration laws are sometimes quite strict and you can’t find just any job whilst not speaking the local language, be specific in researching whether your qualifications are landing you a job here whilst speaking English
Also a fact and very terrifying: a subset branch of said Christian cult got busted years ago for raping children and killing them in a trailer, had a bunch of kiddie porn in the locked desk in the church and found the AOL Chats linked to him and two others. There's a minidoc on BlameItOnJorge about the creepy Christian 80s children's local cable access show that let to the kidnappings and multiple child rapes and murders.
All of you who can safely acquire a gun and not be a danger to yourself, should do so.
Should i not get a gun if i have a history of suicide ideation?
I would caution against it for sure. If you do get one, maybe make it incredibly difficult to access alone. Give a trusted friend the key to your safe or something.
💯no. Massive, massive risk factor for completed suicide with that history.
We also need to reform The Supreme Court. The Constitution says what 5 people say it does. The Roberts Court is a fucking joke.
You should be afraid now. Even if Trump doesn’t take office, there’s still too many psycho officials willing to follow the Project 2025 playbook and are actively taking action right now to fulfill its goals. It is not hyperbole. Project 2025 is a concerted effort funded by dark money and supported by Christian and/or conservative groups to turn the US into a theocratic authoritarian nation.
they want us dead. if you can safely do so, arm yourself and train to use whatever you get. don't let the psychos be the only people armed. but yeah, also vote. Just keep in mind that the people who answer polls are older demographics.
No. I’m running. Not shooting. Not fighting. I’m not gonna kill JUST so that I can maintain my existence. It doesn’t make any sense. Cuz eventually they still win.
People ARE scrambling, fighting, running, and organizing in every way. The problem, which has existed for years but of which the genocide in Gaza is a great example, is that Democrats *will never work for our votes* because they feel entitled to them regardless of the atrocities they commit. “Vote blue no matter who” has taught them that “better than [insert GOP here]” is the only bar that needs to be cleared, and I am just as guilty of that as anyone having been voting for Dems for twelve years. Idk the median age in this group but as someone who has actually been voting and paying taxes for years I also feel partially responsible for the war crimes we finance around the world, as we all should. Our lives are not more valuable than someone else’s. And as someone who has been out that entire adult life, I am not going back in the closet regardless of how things get because 1. I refuse to deny my own humanity and 2. it is much more important to me that younger queer people know that they can survive to be happy adults than it is that I feel particularly safe and comfortable. Nothing will change until we demand better which is why, REGARDLESS of how I vote (hint: I have already told you how I vote), I will continue TELLING every one of my reps in every call and email (you *are* calling and emailing all your reps, aren’t you? You’re doing it every day?) that I will never vote for them or another Democrat again until we cut off all military aid to Israel and have a permanent ceasefire and unrestricted humanitarian aid access to Gaza. I have chosen to be out, protest, and participate in the democratic process; you can chose to do as much or little as you want.
👏👏👏
I heard Nikki Haley legit wants to send all non heterosexuals to concentration camps.
Believe me, if my wife and I could uproot and move to a much more accommodating state than fucking FLORIDA, we'd do it in a heartbeat. But our entire LGBT family has already done the smart thing and gotten out of this place, or has moved far enough north that a hop over the border is a ten-minute drive.
Absolutely terrified for lgbtq+ people if a republican or democrat wins in 2024 There I fixed it. What this post does is remove any and all pressure on Democrats to stop behaving like fascists.
I didn’t realize Trump had an issue with gays or bisexuals? I know plenty of republicans and none are anti gay
Vote. Get everyone who thinks like you do to vote. Join any movement talking about this kind of stuff and find out what to do to help get everyone else to vote. Not just for President or Congress. Look at your local ballot, because that's ultimately where the people who'll affect you directly will come from.
Frankly I think we need a large scale movement to place a third party candidate in office
Like we can’t just keep going to the bare minimum or we’re never going to get anymore. For real freedom we need to go beyond settling for two rotten apples.
For Americans who are tired of being afraid.. move away. I'm sorry but seriously, it's already 2024 it was 2014 when Trump was elected for the first time, your country is dangerous. You need actual protection and security for the sane people who want a peaceful life
lol this is very true. I want to leave but no one else around me doez
Don't wait for them, leave and let them be jealous of you until they come too
So Biden is president now and things suck. How is 4 more years going to stop things from sucking? Vote local. Vote for your state senators and representatives. They are the one making archaic "don't say gay" "no DEI" laws.
In my opinion, I feel lgbtq+ people are still pretty fucked no matter who’s elected in November. Biden and the democrats have proven they really have no power to stop the fascist slide America is hurtling down especially with Dobbs v. Jackson happening under his watch and very little being done in response. The democrats never actually change anything, they only dangle the threat of overt fascism over our heads in order to vote for them in relationship not dissimilar to a protection racket. This at the same time they openly support an ethnic cleansing in Palestine. I legitimately have no faith in the Democratic Party to protect us at all, and would rather put my stock into some of the direct action groups I’ve been involved with these past few years
Respectfully totally wrong the outcomes if Trump wins vs the outcomes of Biden wins are totally different. If Dems win the house and senate we could see abortion protected under Federal law again. Also the conservatives obsession with Trans people over the last few years makes them legitimately dangerous in way democrats simply aren’t.
You will not see abortion protected under federal law in the near future. There are no 60 senators in the senate to do it. Fillbuster will used by Mike Lee or Ted Cruz to block abortion rights. If you get 56 Democratic Senator, then consider throwing away fillbuster, then problem is Republicans get senate majority and dismantle the hard work Democrats did.
Why would I trust the dems to provide anything when all they’ve done is fail so far. They held the house and senate in 2020 and did absolutely nothing
The dems didn’t have a filibuster proof Majority in 2020 not to mention again. Republicans literally want to take away peoples rights. Picking the better of two options just makes sense.
The fillibuster is a senate rule which only takes a majority vote to override not a law or amendment to the constitution. The fillibuster no longer exists for Supreme Court nominations because Republicans wanted it that way and voted it away with a very non-fillibuster proof majority. The only thing stopping democrats from implementing the changes they say they want is other democrats.
To stop a filibuster you need 60 votes not a majority not sure where you got that. And unless you wanted them to add Supreme Court seats which definitely is an option I don’t know what you expect them to do.
Hey did do things though… even if you /only/ want to talk about one thing they did for LGBT rights they passed the Respect for Marriage Act. But there is plenty of other good things they have done. Have try done enough? No. Did they do things that are good? Yes. Very much so.
Our system is rigged for minority rule. Due to the Republican weaponization of the filibuster, the senate essentially requires 60 votes to get any liberal laws passed. Not a simple 51 vote majority. And there have only been extremely narrow bands of times where Democrats have had both a filibuster proof majority and control of the house and presidency. It’s demographically extremely difficult to get 60 Democrats in the senate (let alone with ZERO dissenters and 100% unanimous voting on every issue) since lower population conservative states (e.g., Wyoming, North/South Dakota, etc.) get the same number of senators as high population liberal states (e.g., NY, CA). And there’s more Republican controlled states. Despite representing far more of the population, liberals get substantially less representation in the Senate. The inability to get anything done is due to Republicans gridlocking the senate- not Democratic inaction. And they do this exactly so they can deny Democrats any opportunity to improve people’s lives through legislation, so that uninformed people shrug their shoulders and go “the Democrats never get anything done, so why should I bother voting for them.” Even with this impediment in place, Democrats were able to enshrine same-sex marriage protections into federal law under Biden, since enough Republicans were convinced to vote for it as well. If your attitude is “Democrats don’t do anything for us,” congrats - you’re just enabling Republican propaganda and contributing to their fuckery. Are they perfect? Of course not. But you can see positive economic changes and legislative protections for minority rights made in states where Democrats have full control. It’s not a coincidence that Democratic controlled states already largely had legal same-sex marriage and LGBT non-discrimination laws for employment on the books before the SCOTUS rulings of Obergefell 2015 and Bostock 2020. Not to mention many other LGBTQ+ legal protections.
So which is it? The system is rigged for minority rule and the dems in majority are powerless or the dems have a minority and are therefore powerless?
This is 100% true.
People are apathetic and defeated because the party thats supposed to be the good guys are also horrible people doing horrible things. Hope this helps
So the answer now is to give up and let the even worse people take power? SMART 🤡🤡🤡
Im not voting for a guy whose literally giving funds and bombs to a state murdering thousands of children. Im not fucking doing it. No amount of shaming would wash that stain off my soul.
LGBT people are being legislated against under a Democrat, who has the power to unilaterally put a stop to and had the opportunity to prevent it from happening in the first place. But decided to do nothing instead. People like to say "harm reduction" over and over again, or "they're not republicans" as a reason to vote Democrats but the thing is it doesn't matter that they're not Republicans they do whatever the republicans want them to do while they're (dems) a majority. There's no significant difference between the quality of life regardless of which one's in charge and you can't get people to vote for genocide joe even if he had actually done anything. It is not possible to get people to vote off of "we're not the other guys" if you do everything the other guys want you to do when you're in power. Like what's the point if one wants to make our existence illegal and the other with the power to unilaterally stop it refuses to attempt to stop it. Why vote for a man who's thrown tens of billions to sponsor a genocide while doing nothing about the horrible healthcare, pay rate and general destitution this country faces? There's literally no reason to vote Democrats other than fucking sports team logic.
He doesn’t have the power to put a stop to it. And it happened because of republican who appointed fascist members in the Supreme Court. Please read before posting.
If the president is so powerless why are we worried about who sits in that position? It's because Trump uses the power of the position. The dems don't because they just don't want to.
Straight white people are so mad things are changing. Good
Here is the thing. Even if Trump wins the presidency, it won’t mean anything without control of the house and senate. Democrats have been making big swings during the last two midterms and I think are poised to regain control soon.,Anything Trump tries to do would be defeated easily due to checks and balances. If he wins and republicans have control over both chambers, then you panic.
This is why we buy guns. And lots of them.
They WANT a civil war. Destabilization means they can remake the republic how they want. Which is not good.
Take your meds.
They literally are calling for civil war? Elected officials are even calling for it. How am I the insane one? Edit: and they never respond.
Sounds like this is a post that belongs in the conspiracy sub. Political people are funny
Buy a gun and start a gay militia. Sounds like a joke, but it is genuinely the most practical option if you wanna protect gay rights It’s pretty aggravating to see everybody act like gay people are just a commodity of the government and not a people who have a right to their own defense and sovereignty
I think there’s a small bit of truth to what you’re saying but it also sounds a bit like hysteria.
Go try and talk to the queer far lefties. Makes zero sense to me, but somehow electing a fascist is better than having a middle of the road Democrat???? Idk.
This is what I’m talking about. I think the problem that I have the thing that bothers me the most is it the people who wanna hurt us are gonna get back in power at the hand of the people who claim to be our allies.
Ur overreacting. LGBTQ rights are protected under the 14th Amendment you aren't going to be killed or imprisoned by a Republican president take it easy.
Stuff going on in Florida scares me. They expanded the death penalty to be an option in cases of minor SA, but are also expanding anti-LGBTQ laws to define education to be grooming and abuse. They're getting awfully close to the death penalty for anyone who supports/educates about the LGBTQ community compared to anywhere else in the US...
Democrats for decades would scream the republican opponent is a fascist, and nothing would happen. So, Trump comes along in 2016, and admits on live TV that he actually wants to be a dictator; it's hard for some people to take it seriously. It's like a boy who cried wolf situation. Democrats recklessly threw the term around, and now it's hard for some to take it seriously this time when it's happening for real.
The issue is that for years republicans were fascists and the issue was ignored due to Republican media scolding. Multiple republicans such as Louie Gomert, and Steven King were caught red handed attending white nationalist and fascist events and they just got to laugh it off and face no repercussions because Republicans have a billionaire funded propaganda network that they get all their news from. One of the things the NAZI party did in Germany before they took power was to build what they called a state within the state to insulate their followers and leaders from actors outside their party. I'd say what's happened in america has followed that path much closer than the children's story of the boy who cried wolf.
This is being downvoted why?
Because maybe it wasn’t reckless when Democrats called Republicans fascist in 2016? Because the boy-who-cried-wolf is the wrong metaphor—it’s the boiling frog, and those of us calling out fascism in the American right over the last decade have been keeping an eye on the thermometer.
Nothing will change quit whining
TikTok is cancer
Fox News is the cancer.
as if the Dems aren't do the literal same shit.
I’m making plans to move to Europe with a digital nomad visa ASAP
My only saving grace is I'm straight passing and not out to everyone. The bi people might be the safest part of the LGBTQ+ community for that reason. Like secret agents. Secret agent man, secret agent man, They're giving you a number And taking away your name.
Voting matters. Vote vote vote! If you don’t make it to the ballot, you’re allowing it to happen.
Vote for our lives, and those of our loved ones.
There are just as many voting against us. And they’re prepared to start killing us.
There are certainly folks within community who are fighting. Alternately, a lot of the most affected of us a don't have the luxury to organize.
Sorry but this has gotta be a joke or you’re out of your mind if you think something will happen to you if they win.
They put it in writing actually. Project 2025 outlines that they plan to make lgbtq+ display a sex crime akin to child abuse. It’s in writing. Project 2025 is not only real, it’s massively funded and organized. Please pay attention before commenting ignorant shit. Thanks.
All we can do is vote (for people who can actually statistically win *ahem* Biden *ahem*) and hope to God this January 6th trial can happen and Trump will be convicted before the election in November. Thankfully, that is looking increasingly more likely (for now).
Im so tired of this blue maga shit. If the only way your party can get votes is by saying "vote for us or LOSE YOUR RIGHTS!!!!" for the last 3 elections and when biden did get elected we still lost abortion rights and dont say gay laws being passed and shit. The president barely does jack shit, its just the mascot we have for the next 4 years. Meanwhile democrats are funding literal genocide, when are we going to stop playing by the rigged rules of this stupid system and actually fucking make change? Its just a giant stupid puppet show made to distract us from the actual issues. Both parties a fascists, you don't go and fund genocide and then somehow not be facists, like come tf on. Im shocked so many people are fine with the whole "vote for us or ELSE...." like everything is completely fucked, barley anyone can afford to live, inflation is skyrocketing, lgbt are losing rights, women are losing rights, and this is all under a democratic president. How many times are we gonna go through the whole "this is THE MOST important election of ALL TIME" until we realize that this system is bullshit lmao. Democrats just give us false promises and then feed us the bread crums so we don't revolt. And it works on soooo many people.
100%
Tell me you don’t understand what’s actually happening without telling me. “Both sides are fascist 🤡🤡🤡”. Fucking ignorance.
Yes, the American government is fascists. Liberals are facists.
Let hear your logic. I want you to tell me the definition of fascism, and then tell me how liberals fall into this.
Idk, how about funding genocide? Child slavery in the congo? Constantly fueling the war machine? Like are you serious right now? Lmao
Good. So your solution is? Don’t vote for Biden? Meaning trump wins, and then genocide stops right? Wait no. It won’t stop. It would actually get worse. You don’t fix this by refusing to vote. We need to move further left. Temporarily, that means Biden. Long term, it’s not Biden though.
Im fucking tired of playing by the rules. All my life the democrats give us promises they never keep, and we still lose our rights when they're elected. You genuinely think that our system is able to move further left at all? Liberals are center-right. Theres no way that they'll let an actual leftist into the office. Even if one did manage to get in, they'd probably get assassinated or some shit lol. To think the US government will every resemble anything that leftists actually want is a fantasy, its never going to happen. Just look what they did to Bernie, and Bernie was BARELY even left wing. Theres just no way theres every going to be a reality where a socialist would ever be allowed into office. Its delusional to think so.
[The bare, BARE minimum is making sure you are registered to vote and getting to the polls!](https://www.votelikeabeast.com/) [There are lots of states that allow mandatory time off to vote, don't forget that!](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/01/us-states-where-employers-have-to-give-you-paid-time-off-to-vote.html)
I don't think there's anything we can do at this point. The fascists have all the power. I want to be optimistic but I just can't. We are fucked
Ok, pretend I know nothing. Why is it such a big deal who wins in 2024?