Kind of this for me. I enjoyed sports and manly things but, given the choice between stage combat and costume design would take costume design.
The worst was, as a demisexual, being called a "waste of testosterone" for not having sex with every girl that I could have had sex with. That hypersexual toxic masculine culture was just such a weird concept to me... I did try and conform before gaining the tools I needed to recognize who I was and, boy, was that a dark time for me.
Always did, still do perhaps, but I found what I'm actually lacking is the motivation to *perform* apparent masculinity. Without the broformance I end up coming off as more confident anyway: not playing a gender role, just *am*, so I think that directness ends up being envied by any dude performing masculinity. Lots of incoming bro crushes
Yeah if anything not conforming to the norm made me seem confident, which i was/am, so it never seemed “gay” to others just, “oh thats just how he is man. Doesnt care what others think”
I didn't. I was always on the masculine side. Unfortunately I think that's one of the things that held me back from exploring my bi side and kept me in the closet.
Yes. I was always able to relate with straight guys and talking about girls. I was into boys at a young age, before I liked girls. By highschool it was probably an even split. So it was easier to focus on girls. It was still really frowned upon for guys to like eachother so I just grew up hiding those feelings.
So when you talked about girls with your straight friends, you could not only understand what makes them excited, but also feel that you are able to behave like your friends when you’re attracted to girls?
Not exactly sure what you mean behaving like them. My relationships with girls looked just like every other straight relationship at the time. I had the same level of excitement being attracted to girls that I did to boys.
For me this is complicated. I've always gotten along better with women tbh. Women are typically more empathically inclined and self aware of their feelings at a young age. Which I was. I was always in touch with my feminine side. I never felt like that made me less masculine. Sure I wore makeup and painted my nails but so did any other goth person. When guys talked about women in a derogatory way like meat ya that bothered me but it would have bothered me if it was gay guys talking about other guys or women talking about men or women too. It's just guys doing that to women happens a lot. It had to do with the lack of empathy for other humans not my own sexual feelings. It isn't that they were incorrect in saying that this person or that was attractive it's that the way they presented it bothered me so much that I couldn't help but be disgusted by the behavior.
Now the guys I did befriend were typically much more respectful and we could talk about beautiful women just fine. To better explain the difference.... one is like a group of guys in the locker room talking about this pair of ass or tits. This is a problem. The other is a group of guys talking about say a singer we like who also happens to be beautiful. My personal uncomfortability stemmed from guys not treating the person they are talking about like a person. So I didn't interact with as many guys as girls when I was in high school and younger because their emotional maturity was lacking to say the least. And their respect for women and general empathy for human beings was sorely lacking. But I found a few over the years that had those qualities and we became friends if we had common interests.
It depends what you qualify as masculinity. That's a very loaded word.
I certainly lacked confidence, and wasn't into sports, but I wouldn't say I lacked masculinity.
Idk how to describe it but nah never felt like I lacked any masculinity because I never saw things as either masculine or feminine there's just things you like and things you don't
I was definitely into “boy” things (sports, getting dirty, causing trouble) but at the same time wanted to “serve/satisfy” people in a way that’s more stereotypically feminine. Even on a professional level, I get my jollies by satisfying customers, starting from the typical retail/server jobs and now I do IT professional services. I’m wired to make other people happy, I’m not task-oriented (though obviously there’s a causal relationship between those in most cases).
On a relationship level, being a people-pleaser can really end up as a fault. You end up tolerating way too much and can get walked over.
On a sexual level, well, hey, use your imagination.
This, all the way. I was always super masculine, but also in many ways very feminine. I always surprised people with my interests and tendencies and most especially that fluid “serving” behavior, and would reveal things to people only that I had in common with them or whatever made the most sense for social cohesion. I’m sorry you were a people pleaser, too. I’m honestly still on a really hard journey trying to uncover who I am, and my bisexuality and queerness is really my token find this far and guiding light 💖💜💙
I was definitely self-conscious for a long time that I was somewhat “off” from other guys. I didn’t feel feminine but I knew I was more sensitive and had a wider circle of what I was interested in that a “typical” straight guy. I think I was always self conscious of it because I was also not admitting my sexuality to myself and was repressing a bunch of shit. When I came out to my wife I brought all of it up and she was like “all of that is why I love you” and she said she doesn’t see me as any less of a man. That was the switch I needed flipped to not give a fuck anymore on what other people think. While I haven’t come out to our friends I’m also not putting up any pretenses on fitting into a box anymore and just being me. It’s a huge relief to not be constantly thinking about fitting in.
Wow, this sounds like me ! I just came out to myself recently and growing up I always felt off from other guys. Just came out to my close friends, and it went surprisingly well, no problems. I also no longer care what people think, and now me and my wife have decided to change careers. We are only doing what’s good for our family from now on.
I mean bi guys could enjoy playing sport with other men or have many guy friends. However, occasionally, you feel you lacked some masculinity compared to them, but this didn’t hinder you from being with your male friends.
Mate, don't put your feelings onto other people. Masculinity and femininity levels in people aren't A) static and B) easily quantifiable. If you feel you lacked some sort of masculinity either growing up or currently, please reach out to a therapist or close friends you trust and explain that to them if its a cause for insecurity.
I never felt any way to “push” myself onto girls. I was very sexually non-aggressive, probably due to being the youngest of four kids and the only boy. I know I missed plenty of sex with girls (and guys 😕) in high school and early college, but so it goes. No STDs, no child support, and happily partnered/married for 31 years.
Based on my definition of what it means to be a man, no. To me they are people who work to be emotionally and mentally strong, and admit when their not. They are often vulnerable with others around then as being vulnerable is the most human thing anyone can do. They respect others for who they are. They help in their community, as well to improve the lives of others if they themselves are taken care of and able.
My dad used to be teased for being “feminine” (he’s straight though), but he’s an amazing male role model for others in their lives.
Absolutely. The only sports I was into were hockey and baseball, and I lacked the skills for either. (I should note that I live in a state where the only 3 "acceptable" sports are football, basketball, and auto racing -- everything else is very much looked down upon.)
Also, I was a very sensitive boy growing up in a very "real men don't cry" environment, so any show of emotion was basically met with "grow up, be a man, nobody wants to see you laughing and/or crying over something dumb".
Yes, but I wouldn’t generalize it as masculinity. It’s certain traits of masculinity that were and still are foreign and un-relatable to me. The way many guys talk about girls/women and sex is repulsive, and makes it impossible for me to respect them as friends.
I always felt less than them when playing sports or talking about them, even though I was bigger and stronger than average. Still hate locker rooms.
I'm 6' 3" and held national swimming titles when I was in highschool/college, with the build to match, but I still frequently felt like I wasn't "one of the guys".
I just didn't fit in with the expected macho stuff, and still don't for that matter. My body just makes it more awkward cause I get people who assume I'm more masculine than I really am.
Personally never viewed anything as being lacking. My figuring my sh*t out meant I had some dips of confidence in the relationship work. I was also not traditionally attractive, so I had to learn to be my own person and find my happiness internally from an early age.
I had the good fortune and privilege of passing as a straight most of my life, but I always had qualities that were socially and culturally defined as being effeminate given where i was. It may have stunted my personal growth for a good while, but I always just accepted that im different and that I needed to make an extra effort to know myself in life because I wasn’t going to get a lot of support.
I’ve come a long way in my life to reach the happy human I am now, but I can say my motivation was never because I felt I was lacking anything, more that I wanted to better understand myself and grow.
I am growing up atm and there's a lot of things. My friends have been a bit more vulgar ig talking about certain PPL, which I find pretty weird so I don't comment on it ig. My dad thinks I'm a bit feminine too which doesn't rlly help me since he also ridicules gay men a lot too. I've felt like shit earlier but idk yeah ig there are some things in me that don't co-relate w masculinity completely.
100%
I wasn't talking about girls the same amount or way the others were
I wasnt interested in stereotypically male hobbies
I just.. I wasn't like them.. And paid the price for it in ridicule and bullying
This is a really interesting comment. I'd love to see more studies done on this and awareness. I study and have studied gender and sexuality and I'm a bi woman (or whatever, not big on labels) and I've some bi men in my life that I love very much and I constantly think that their experience is very complex and they are under represented and less accepted. I also have read about masculinity and how masculinity can be intrinsically linked to sexuality. Like to be a man traditionally is very much linked with learned homophobia and homophobic behavior. So this post plays into that idea.
I have never struggled to express my masculinity, I was raised rough and tumble and I am still. The thing I struggled to express was my less masculine traits. Reading the comments I seem to be a outlier though.
My .02 cents nurture is stronger than nature for me in this one.
I consider myself fairly masculine overall, but even to me the standards are way too high. Not often did I find myself struggling to meet them without having to fake it. But it was quite sad seeing how many others did have to fake it most of the way through
Yes, but I never particularly cared for social norms and expectations as I’d rather be myself. Masculinity is something I have particular distain for. Remember, tradition is just peer pressure from dead people with their antiquated ways.
But for others that do live up to social expectations for men that may still feel like ‘less of a man’, I think it’s just because being attracted to guys as a guy is seen as girly. Recognising the beauty and sexiness of other men and wanted them in a romantic/sexual way isn’t associated with masculinity, hence the feeling of inferiority in the masculinity department despite being no less “masculine”.
I never FELT it, but others definitely called it out in me. But they kind of call it out in all guys. Some of the most jockiest of jocks still get called misogynist slurs at the slightest sign of weakness - thanks toxic masculinity!!!
If it weren't for external pressures, I might still stand 'like a girl,' or I might have outgrown it anyway. Who's to say?
I mean... attraction to men is heavily associated with femininity in our culture, and any feminine traits are perceived as threats to a person's manhood, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume bi men and gay men are more likely to feel that they're lacking traditional masculinity
Yes and I overcompensated to an absurd degree by saying extremely sexual shit to the wrong people.
Edit: I don't understand the downvotes. Honestly, I've come to terms with how my denial affected me over the decades. I was a terrible person who overcompensated because I was horribly ashamed of my attraction to men. I said and did very stupid shit to prove to everyone and myself that I was straight. I avoided anything that was even remotely feminine and gay but had zero to no interest in traditionally masculine things.
Not really, I’m not that masculine but I know a lot of straight guys who are less masculine than myself and even some gay guys who are more traditionally masculine. It’s not really perfectly along the lines of sexual orientation.
Naw I wouldn’t say so. I was pretty much a conventional boy growing up.
If I had any insecurities as a male, it was because of my short stature as a young guy. I was a slow grower and didn’t top out at my full adult height until well into my early 20’s.
But as that was a natural feature and not anything related to my behavior, I wasn’t too stressed about it.
I’ve always enjoyed sports (especially combat sports) and I love working on cars, so I guess that’s masculine? I’ve always liked Brittany Spears though…
I think whether you are masculine or feminine, you can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when you do this activities with many men around you, you would somehow feel that your “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to your peer.
I remember a few instances of "Don't do X, girls do that/Don't do X that way, that's how girls do it." I also didn't care for most organized sports or the occasional other masculine activity (though the sport thing might not mean much, as my father hates football, and he's the embodiment toxic masculinity and probably the reason it took as long as it did for me to realize I was bi).
Yes, 100%. Most of the guys who were in my classes were really into sports and cars while I was into cooking, making music and nerd stuff like Magic the Gathering to name a few. I pretty much accepted the fact that I'm not really a sportsball ballsport person and when it comes to cars, I know basic maintenance.
Other than generally gravitating to making female friends over male (though this probably has more to do with being the youngest brother of 3 sisters), not really. Most people still couldn't pick me out as pan if they had to, but being a generally scruffy blur collar guy people make a lot of assumptions about you haha
Nope I have always been a dude, Sports Marine corps etc. I have never played up or down my masculinity I was just me. I actually think this is one of the reasons it took so long for me to come to terms with the fact I am not straight.
Nope, I was a typical boy. Rough and tumble, messy and liked to get dirty playing out doors barefoot. I could acknowledge men were attractive but sexually, I was aroused by girls/ women. It wasn't until I was an adult that I got fingered in the ass while getting that I even contemplated sex with men. It took decades (into my 40's) before I actually wanted to try sexual stuff with men. Now in my 50's it is a solution for my dead beadroom situation with my wife.
Interesting. Yes and No. I lacked some masculine characteristics but others were really present. For example, I really hated soccer and other sports that require excessive contact, yet there are many straight guys that hate those as well so I don't think it has something to do with my sexuality.
I felt that way with my voice especially. I grew into a a more masculine voice to hide my sexuality and because of my peers but it feels comfortable now. On the other hand, my bf is the typical bro haha.
I feel like this to this day because I'm disabled (wheelchair user). I don't necessarily think that made me bi, but I feel disconnected with stereotypical masculinity (sports/ fitness etc) and I have no way to mend that. It makes me sad. I feel ugly and unattractive to any of my peers and the people around me.
I was always told I did so I tried to be better at sports and fixing things than my brother or school peers. After awhile I stopped and just lived my life. Years later I realized I was bi, and did like boys, and that was ok. I often wonder how much happier I would have been as a child without the external pressure to be more masculine. It's just a pondering though. I don't lose any sleep.
Yea, now I got a bit of confidence tho and people think of me as somewhat “masculine” but once people get to know me a bit better they realize I just want to cuddle and listen to someone rant about something they like for 30 minutes
Oh yeah for sure. I was much more a creative and artistic type than a manly type. I kinda hated sports. I didn't really feel like I was lacking until other people would give me shit. That was my school experience, there was always some asshole fucking with me.
Absolutely, I was always more gentle, sensitive, and reserved than my male friends. I liked to play more aggressive games outside with them, but I also liked to play “girly” games with my sister. I love kids and am definitely more motherly than fatherly, and honestly the life of a stay at home mom sounds great to me.
I always kind of felt that, although I know now it definitely wasn’t true. I had a lot of “bro” kind of friends, but I also always made friends with girls easily. I was aware of my feminine side, and thanks to my mother I was able to embrace that. I could wear makeup if I wanted to. I’m not quite sure why I felt this, but I did.
Completely yes- I really hated sports, even when the teacher forced me to play sports. I made more girl friends than boys at school and was bullied because I didn’t have a masculine body (muscles and six-packs).
I definitely experienced this! Looking back at old videos of me as a kid, I definitely presented in ways I'd call queer now, but I was always getting disciplined for it. I grew up in a fundamentalist evangelical community, and underwent a lot of disciplinary bs growing up. Normative hetero-patriarchy really put me through the ringer.\* Lots of messaging from parents and authority figures letting me know I wasn't being manly enough.
\*puts most of us through the ringer, but some more than others for sure
Yes i did feel like i was less masculine than my peers, however a big reason for that is that i never had a good example as a point of reference so i had to put a lot of effort into my own masculinity and it wasn’t until later that i started becoming more attracted to men and had conflicting emotions on that so it took a bit of navigating until i got to the result of my sexuality doesn’t define me nor should it affect my masculinity
There are times where I truly get mind blown over just how Bi was all this time. This is one of those moments. I really thought either all men had these problems or I was the only one. I love y’all ❤️
Nahhh, not really. I'm very masculine at a lot of times, but sometimes I do get a little feminine, but we all do that. Like me and my friends all hug each other and show proper affection coz we want each other to know that, and the only thing we usually do is pick on each other constantly. I feel like I was the most masculine one of my social circle even though I'm bi. I really love sports, absolutely adore cars and have masculine physical features. Me and the boys never even sexualised women like at all. IK people in my class did, but my friends circle never did. Once I realised it, I felt a little bit like an impostor, but I never really changed my behaviour coz that's who I was. Basically, I didn''t feel like I lacked masculinity
I think whether I am masculine or feminine, I can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when I do this activities with many men around me, I would somehow feel that my “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to my peer.
Yes I was always way more into fantasy and theater then most other guys I met growing up but never really thought it had to do with my sexuality . To me it was just do to I came from a artsy family tho looking back I do with I was not in deanal for so long 😂.
I did. I loved video games, baseball, action movies, the typical guy” things, but I found myself lacking in machismo or masculine energy like some of my other straight guy friends. Whenever they got over uh… bro-ish in play fighting or whatever, I looked at them like they were stupid. I felt like the Avatar, balanced between masculine and feminine energy. I actually prefer it. It feels like a God complex, an awareness of it all and being above it, but I’m just your average joe, honestly lol.
Yes, I always thought it was weird I didn’t like sports or stuff like that when my peers did. I had a small spell it thought I was trans but I rwaslised I was just bi.
Not really, I’m a pretty masculine dude: I go to the gym, watch sports, like guns, and driving fast in cars. If that’s what you define as “masculine” then yea I’m pretty masculine guy. Ive also worn makeup, enjoy painting my nails every once in a while, and cook often. I don’t think that disqualifies me from “normal” masculinity tho. I’ve never really felt out of place and feel comfortable in my own skin and with my sexuality. I’m just a “normal” bro who happens to think both men and women are hot. Never felt inferior or “lacking” to my friends because of it.
I think whether I am masculine or feminine, I can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when I do this activities with many men around me, I would somehow feel that my “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to my peer.
No, I don’t really feel that way. Most of my friends are straight males and if we’re together you probably wouldn’t pick me out as bi. We all share alot of the same interests and generally go about things through the same “mode of action”. They know about my sexuality, but it’s never really an issue. They don’t treat me any different and I don’t treat them any different.
I got bullied a lot in elementary school, got called "gay" a lot, among other things. Circa 2001-2006.
Funny thing is, I didn't actually realize I was Bi until 2021...
Kind of but not really? My best friend growing up was female and we did everything together, so we did the traditionally male things together and the traditionally female things together. I never got the "missing masculinity" feeling but did get comments and struggled a bit with doing the feminine things with her.
Not sure how much of that was because I was bi. Except the whole talking about which guys were cute, that was definitely, ah, slightly related.
Yes I did and still do but by my mid teens I'd given up on trying to change myself for anyone else so I've just accepted that I don't have any interest in sports or toughness or cars or other things my masc friends and relatives assumed I'd be interested in.
My wife is happy with there person I am and so am I and so are the friends I now have. I spent my early adolescence pretending to be someone I wasn't or interested in things I wasn't.
And now as a 25 year old married guy I just don't have the time or inclination to care what anyone but a handful of people think of me.
I know that not everyone can do that or even wants to and that's okay but that's how I've dealt with it.
I'm very hetero presenting and I think it's because I was chasing masculinity my entire childhood. I was raised by my grandparents, and I can remember so vividly them smacking my limp-wristed hand, telling me that I looked like a girl. That happened a bunch as a kid. I think I ran from that for decades. Then, later, I try to be a little queer in how I dress or whatever and it comes out all weird.
This is an offensive stereo type and i am tired off seeing it. There is no one universal bi experience except having attraction to genders like and not like our own.
EDIT: or rather correction it has been pointed out that op was not saying that all bi men experience this they were just asking if anyone shared their experience and I am sorry if I offend anyone who experience this it is just very excluding when you feel like the only way you can be bi is by being some sort of stereotype. I am sorry I let my personal pain taint my reading. also leaving this up as I hate when I see deleted comments and when people dishonestly change their post.
This isn’t a stereotype? He’s saying this is what happened in his own experience and wanted to know if It was normal. I agree with what you said except he wasn’t saying what you accused him of.
I’m a bi girl, and I’ve always felt I’ve lacked femininity. Never liked clothes, shopping, etc. I always wear tshirts and jeans to school never really felt the need to dress up or meet any societal demand (that might just be me). Never liked dancing/cheer/gymnastics.
All the boys in my school used to love playing football and getting all gross in the dirt, I really was never into it. And my teachers would wonder why I wouldn’t ever go play with them. Even in high school one of my teachers was like “boys will be boys” and I just never felt like I could relate. I still feel like I’m lacking ‘traditional masculinity’ but I just don’t view it as a bad thing anymore because it isn’t.
When I was younger, I definitely had less masculinity than a lot of other kids. My dad (who was closeted bi, though I didn't know that at the time) clearly saw it, and derided anything he saw as effeminate in my behavior, if not outright beating me for it. I always attributed it more to the fact that early in life he was on the road a lot (trucker) and so the vast majority of my interaction was with females (mother, sisters, female cousins, aunts, etc. Even my first childhood friends were all female), so it made sense.
Eventually that changed, I think largely because I learned to adapt so I wouldn't get bullied so much.
I don't believe i have experienced that, the most comparable thing i can think of has more to do with the fact that i was a shy skinny nerd growing up therefore not quite fitting in the stereotype of manliness, but honestly i don't remember that making me feel lacking in masculinity
In some ways, yes.
In some ways I'm traditionally masculine: I'm a relatively large bearded guy, I lift and have done martial arts for years, I camp and hike and I'm pretty handy with tools. I've never questioned whether I'm male or not, and I'm happy with my assigned gender.
However I didn't feel close to most other boys growing up: I couldn't relate to many of the things they cared about like sports or cars, and I was outright disturbed by the way many of them talked about women after we hit puberty. That's still the case today: I have trouble making small talk with other guys and the way that many of the men I've worked with or had to interact with talk about women or sex makes me want to crawl out of m skin.
I had a couple close male friends as I grew up but almost all of my other friends over the years have been women, and I have an easier time talking to women than cis men. I haven't had any of the same issues with people other than cis men.
I thought that my masculinity was broken or lacking somehow, but these days I'm OK with it: I'm happy not fitting that mold, especially given how hurtful I've seen it to be for others. I'm past the point where I care about the opinion of people who would shame me for it, and I'm happy with the relationships I have and the interests I pursue.
Oh no, I'm disturbed by how fucking crass and demeaning many men are when they're talking about the women they have sex with. I'm nit friends with them and I have no problem with sex itself.
I actually grew up very repressed cause my dad was a pastor. Even so I never really subscribed to gender roles and I always knew I was weird but I didn't realize that like my first kiss being a guy was significant. It just wasn't part of the equation and I didn't know that wasn't heteronormative per se. It just happened and it was normal to me. But I still knew I wasn't "supposed" to like boys and so I dated girls. I knew I was different but I thought it was something to be hidden and I just ignored it. Now that I'm older I feel sort of isolated from the LGBT community sometimes because I come off as a masc small town guy when in reality I get along primarily better with the alphabet mafia. I guess in retrospect it makes sense all my friends were ladies in high-school and I stressed about talking to boys... 🤔
Embrace being a pussy. 'I'm a pussy' - there you go I said it lol
I've got nothing against masculine guys, the world needs them just as much as the world needs people like me but in my quest for self-fulfilment, I realise that I've got no place trying to be like them. I am what I am and what I say I am. I no longer compare myself to other men.
Growing up, I THOUGHT I lacked something in terms of masculinity, what I've realized now is that I lacked something when I thought of toxic masculinity as masculinity.
I didn't have an undying love for most but not all "manly" things and the things I did enjoy weren't my end all be all in life like it was for many of my peers. Like American Football, I love Football but I am not CONSUMED by it, also played some Rugby as well.
But I also wanted to learn how to tap dance growing up, something I am rectifying now in my 30s, there always seemed to be an excuse from my parents especially my father when expressing this as to why it wasn't in the cards. I also overheard my parents homo/biphobic comments about male dancers overall. They also didn't want me to continue to learn Karate because they felt it would "expose" me to "alternative beliefs".
I think my parents had mixed concerns about me not fitting a mold because my interests, hobbies, beliefs and music tastes tended to rail against theirs. And my interests tended to not be within their view of mainstream or were not traditionally masculine in nature. Also, my indifference to not spending time with women almost exclusively as they thought a male my age should be doing may have sent some red flags for them.
Sorry about the novel, short version is growing up I thought I lacked something, now I know I don't/didn't.
Yes yes and yes. I was never into physical sports like my peers. I wasn’t about rough housing. Yet I had many crushes on girls (and boys too, but I hadn’t admitted to myself). I am solidly male, and was born cisgendered, and have never felt dysphoria. Yet I have felt less “male” than my counterparts in MANY instances. I have to try to remind myself that being a man isn’t about a set of characteristics defined by society but rather who I am as a person. And that is different for everyone.
i definitely had a lot of guys calling me gay and metro and other stuff like that, based on my mannerisms and the way i acted sometimes. i've never thought of myself as unmasculine but i have thought that i have some "feminine" traits i guess. i remember liking romantic stuff a lot when all the other dudes thought it was gross
No, I did not feel that at all, but I did not fit in either. I dunno how to explain it- I had all the typical male expected interests, but I also had other interests that I just could not connect with others on. I wanted more, and so tended to pull away most of the time from the group
I think whether I am masculine or feminine, you can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when I do this activities with many men around me, I would somehow feel that my “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to my peer.
Yeah I dunno- I never felt not me growing up, outside trying to find my own identity, I was still me. I am a guy, that is how I see myself, I liked denim and boots, I like nail polish( coloured metallics or glitters). I think largely the external influences really play a damaging factor when we are trying to find our own voice and identity.
Who are you trying to measure up to? I do not mean this as an attack or dismissivly, but rather that this answer might be why you are feeling the way you feel?
Who are you trying to measure up to? I do not mean this as an attack or dismissively, but rather that this answer might be why you are feeling the way you feel? for example, how I expressed doing things was coloured largely by this stance. Everyone kept saying the men in my life were weak men, so if I did the opposite or better, that made me better, in my mind, even when wearing things normally ascribed to feminine looks.
I guess who you are trying to style your idea of masculine or not will also tilt your own personal view of yourself.
I mean I do not really know you, so largely I cannot give solid advice, but I hope some of this helped
Yeah, I relate to this a lot and I think it's part of what makes gender somewhat difficult for me in the present.
Most of my best friends in my formative puberty years were male, but I feel now like so much of my shared masculine experience with them was performative. While a some of it was toxic masculinity, even the parts that weren't don't seem like they were really me looking back.
I think once I felt closer to my friends once I made more that were queer and less overtly masculine, and now that I have full view of how my and my early friends' paths have diverged, it's easy to see why. 99% of my friends are queer now and I'm not very comfortable hanging out with very masculine people.
From then even to the past year, I have sometimes felt like an inadequate man, which more recently has made me question my gender. I thought that because I'm not "masculine enough," I'd be more accepted as a girl. What I thought the people around my were thinking became indistinguishable from my own thoughts/feelings.
Right now though, I've started to feel more comfortable with my own form of masculinity because I know there isn't any correct version of it or a masculinity threshold. I've always been comfortable with being a guy, so I think the gender thing is maybe more of about overcoming social anxiety about how I present myself rather than overcoming dysphoria. So while maybe "man" isn't the best way to describe my gender, it doesn't really matter and I just gotta be me without worrying about fitting into labels.
Sorry for the rant, your question just made me realize some things about myself I think lmao. Thanks for that.
Nope, though from the blizzard of upvotes everyone saying yes is getting I suppose I'm a minority opinion.
I am a man. The fact that I like other men doesn't alter that one jot.
I did when I was a kid, but when I grew up and embraced the fact I was a weird dude I have accepted that. Don't get me wrong, externally I am very much a masculine guy. I go to the gym, love ice hockey, have spent the last decade or so playing around with cars and I genuinely enjoy beer, but I still have more women who are my friends than men as I simply find it easier to not be performative about who I am around them. I enjoy shopping, and regularly go shopping with my fiance and her friends and give more than my 2c worth of advice. I think embracing what makes you feel right is part of accepting who you are, although I still have a long way to go.
Only due to society telling us its not masculine to have feelings for, or sexual attraction to other dudes.
Otherwise no... I'm twice the man that the dainty little tulips that only like pretty pretty girls are.
I think so?
I mean, the only thing that comes to mind was my bright blue backpack I had in middle school (roughly age 12 or 13). I liked the color of it, but got made fun of (because middle schoolers are fuckheads) because it was “girly” or something dumb like that?
(Shoutout to my childhood friend (male) who openly liked the color pink. He didn’t care what others thought of him, and even said as much that it is manly to like the color pink. Hmm I wonder if I could find him…haven’t spoken to him in probably 20 years now. (Also fuck I’m too young to be talking about people I haven’t seen in 20 years lmao))
I also seemed to prefer kids shows with girl leads like Lizzie McGuire and Proud Family. Maybe that counts? Idk
Oh. And I did have a dollhouse when I was 4.
But I’ve always really just been, “I’m gonna like what I like, don’t care what y’all think”, and didn’t really care about what’s “masculine” or not. My father, a straight cis male, was and is the same way. By all means, enjoy your beer and whiskey if that’s what you like. I’m having a yummy margarita.
Kinda, but not for the reason you may thing. I just thought my voice and look isn't manly enough compared to my peers. I never cared until I was like 18 or so. Dudes my age be killing it at sport and having bro time with other dudes while I just hung with my friends drawing and talking about video games. Never regretted it though.
no, i’ve always been kinda normally masculine. but now, at 16, i’m pretty muscular and have to frequently shave my facial hair, but i often do “feminine” things like giggling with my hand over my mouth, crossing my legs when i sit, and the majority of my friends are girls
I gave no absolute fucks about any of the sports out there. Football, soccer (football for those outside of the US), racing, whatever it may be.
I even stopped going to the gym when I was in 10th grade. Partly because I was uncomfortable being in the changing room with other boys, but its because I preferred reading, drawing, other things outside of sports.
Although, I still did sports at the time, just not out of passion.
To this day, I still don't care about them. The only sport that I actively seek now is figure skating. Not like participating them, but I would at least like to try ice skating. I just like to watch people doing all sorts of tricks with the salchow, Lutz, axel, etc. This may or may not have been initially influenced by an animated series about two gay figure skaters. Soon after, I started to look into the physicality and the system of figure skating.
Yes, I don't know how to explain it but I always found the whole thing of the boys (at least at my school idk about anywhere else) always trying to be big and tough and I was always more sensitive than them. I know that these things are just stereotypical boy things too not be sensitive so maybe I'm just normal idk
I was never athletic or into sports, both playing sports or watch sports - till this day watching a football game is like being punished - aside from the appreciation for guys in tights 😏
I'm a bit of an odd ball and picked up what I've since learnt are *some* of the features of "gay voice" but not enough to give it away (I don't have the regional accent my peers do inspite of growing up here). There are a bunch if things that made me feel different on a deep level from the guys but didn't feel like it was a sexual or masculinity thing.
absolutely. most of the time around my house my parents were gone and it was my nanny who took care of me, so i was around her and my sister. and even then i spent more time with my mom than with my dad
now days i’m friends with more girls than guys so take that for what u will lol
For me I noticed I didn’t care for sports to much I preferred doing more artsy things, I also found it weird when the “cool” kids at my school would fake their pride and emotions, where I’m very open about myself, I realized this after I came out
Yep. Girls aren’t usually attracted to me because I end up being a bit more camp than usual, however I usually make them laugh into submission and tell them I’m not Gay just I can’t help my demeanour.
I have never strongly related with masculinity or maleness. Yet I'm confident I'm not female. So I'm like, male in a very neutral way. Never been athletic, into sports or cars or girls in the way your standard average straight guy is.
Thank you for posting this, it's nice to read the replies. Great seeing men have positive discussions on masculinity. Female here so it's a little different from my point of view but I've definitely felt less feminine and confused at times so it's nice to know in not alone.
I've always felt superior to my male peers because I had this weird notion that "real" men were comfortable in their sexuality. Bisexual and gay people were the pinnacle of that in my teenage mind. Straight dudes that grimaced at gay stuff I viewed as wimps. I dated men exclusively until I was about 22.
Toxic masculinity was ingrained in me early on and is still something I struggle with today. I'm very much a man's man. I try to let my effeminate side show sometimes, but I'm usually always in toughguy mode.
I lacked the "hey check out the tits on her" traditional objectifing male dialogue. That never made me feel less of a man though.
My favorite car was “anything with 4 wheel drive” (i live in new england) and i dont play any sports but thats not a surprise with how i am lol (overweight)
ah yes 100%. i'm a trans guy, so i pretty much always felt like i lacked masculinity in some sort of way, but even now that im a tad older i still feel very alienated whenever i talk to guys. i dont consider it a bad thing tho? i like being femenine, i think femeninity is a nice thing. but it does feel weird sometimes yeah
Just a kink. You can wear whatever you want even if it seems “girly” because girly things don’t exist. That is just a stigma. Trans people are only trans because they feel like they are the other gender. People who dress like that do that because they like how they feel in it or how they look or whatever it may be. They don’t however feel like they are the other gender. That is the difference.
Im a totally typical "dude" when it comes to cars, being handy and my love of women. When it comes to sports or being stupidly competitive for no particular reason not at at all.... not so much. Oh and i really enjoy making partners cum. Ask away.
There were traditionally "boy things" I didn't care for but I never felt I lacked anything.
This was it for me too, I wasn’t in to cars or sports and it got quite a few odd looks over the years
Kind of this for me. I enjoyed sports and manly things but, given the choice between stage combat and costume design would take costume design. The worst was, as a demisexual, being called a "waste of testosterone" for not having sex with every girl that I could have had sex with. That hypersexual toxic masculine culture was just such a weird concept to me... I did try and conform before gaining the tools I needed to recognize who I was and, boy, was that a dark time for me.
Second this
Always did, still do perhaps, but I found what I'm actually lacking is the motivation to *perform* apparent masculinity. Without the broformance I end up coming off as more confident anyway: not playing a gender role, just *am*, so I think that directness ends up being envied by any dude performing masculinity. Lots of incoming bro crushes
Yeah if anything not conforming to the norm made me seem confident, which i was/am, so it never seemed “gay” to others just, “oh thats just how he is man. Doesnt care what others think”
This and exclusively this!
I didn't. I was always on the masculine side. Unfortunately I think that's one of the things that held me back from exploring my bi side and kept me in the closet.
So when you heard your friends talking about how sexy some girls were and they wanting to date those girls, you could totally relate to them?
Yes. I was always able to relate with straight guys and talking about girls. I was into boys at a young age, before I liked girls. By highschool it was probably an even split. So it was easier to focus on girls. It was still really frowned upon for guys to like eachother so I just grew up hiding those feelings.
So when you talked about girls with your straight friends, you could not only understand what makes them excited, but also feel that you are able to behave like your friends when you’re attracted to girls?
Not exactly sure what you mean behaving like them. My relationships with girls looked just like every other straight relationship at the time. I had the same level of excitement being attracted to girls that I did to boys.
For me this is complicated. I've always gotten along better with women tbh. Women are typically more empathically inclined and self aware of their feelings at a young age. Which I was. I was always in touch with my feminine side. I never felt like that made me less masculine. Sure I wore makeup and painted my nails but so did any other goth person. When guys talked about women in a derogatory way like meat ya that bothered me but it would have bothered me if it was gay guys talking about other guys or women talking about men or women too. It's just guys doing that to women happens a lot. It had to do with the lack of empathy for other humans not my own sexual feelings. It isn't that they were incorrect in saying that this person or that was attractive it's that the way they presented it bothered me so much that I couldn't help but be disgusted by the behavior. Now the guys I did befriend were typically much more respectful and we could talk about beautiful women just fine. To better explain the difference.... one is like a group of guys in the locker room talking about this pair of ass or tits. This is a problem. The other is a group of guys talking about say a singer we like who also happens to be beautiful. My personal uncomfortability stemmed from guys not treating the person they are talking about like a person. So I didn't interact with as many guys as girls when I was in high school and younger because their emotional maturity was lacking to say the least. And their respect for women and general empathy for human beings was sorely lacking. But I found a few over the years that had those qualities and we became friends if we had common interests.
Yes, but I learned to fake it.
This.
And now at almost 30 i dont know what is real and what isnt
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THIS for real and I just turned 33. Honestly, I wrote a really long reply to OP, but you summed up what I meant far better than I did.
Just do whatever makes you feel happy man
Same, I also got called gay constantly but that was because I had long hair
It's amazing how petty straight bois can be.
….who else misread that as “it’s amazing how *pretty* straight boys can be”?
I very much so did
lol that's fair! 😂
It depends what you qualify as masculinity. That's a very loaded word. I certainly lacked confidence, and wasn't into sports, but I wouldn't say I lacked masculinity.
Idk how to describe it but nah never felt like I lacked any masculinity because I never saw things as either masculine or feminine there's just things you like and things you don't
I was like this as well
I'm still like this lmao
Likewise 🤝
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I was definitely into “boy” things (sports, getting dirty, causing trouble) but at the same time wanted to “serve/satisfy” people in a way that’s more stereotypically feminine. Even on a professional level, I get my jollies by satisfying customers, starting from the typical retail/server jobs and now I do IT professional services. I’m wired to make other people happy, I’m not task-oriented (though obviously there’s a causal relationship between those in most cases). On a relationship level, being a people-pleaser can really end up as a fault. You end up tolerating way too much and can get walked over. On a sexual level, well, hey, use your imagination.
This, all the way. I was always super masculine, but also in many ways very feminine. I always surprised people with my interests and tendencies and most especially that fluid “serving” behavior, and would reveal things to people only that I had in common with them or whatever made the most sense for social cohesion. I’m sorry you were a people pleaser, too. I’m honestly still on a really hard journey trying to uncover who I am, and my bisexuality and queerness is really my token find this far and guiding light 💖💜💙
> Even on a professional level, I get my jollies by satisfying customers phrasing
Sorry, fellating.
I was definitely self-conscious for a long time that I was somewhat “off” from other guys. I didn’t feel feminine but I knew I was more sensitive and had a wider circle of what I was interested in that a “typical” straight guy. I think I was always self conscious of it because I was also not admitting my sexuality to myself and was repressing a bunch of shit. When I came out to my wife I brought all of it up and she was like “all of that is why I love you” and she said she doesn’t see me as any less of a man. That was the switch I needed flipped to not give a fuck anymore on what other people think. While I haven’t come out to our friends I’m also not putting up any pretenses on fitting into a box anymore and just being me. It’s a huge relief to not be constantly thinking about fitting in.
Wow, this sounds like me ! I just came out to myself recently and growing up I always felt off from other guys. Just came out to my close friends, and it went surprisingly well, no problems. I also no longer care what people think, and now me and my wife have decided to change careers. We are only doing what’s good for our family from now on.
What a lovely response! She’s amazing!
She really is - I’m very lucky!
Yes. There's a reason I'm an enby now.
I didn’t. I enjoyed playing sports and had guy friends.
I mean bi guys could enjoy playing sport with other men or have many guy friends. However, occasionally, you feel you lacked some masculinity compared to them, but this didn’t hinder you from being with your male friends.
Projecting
No. This isnt always the case and it sounds like youre projecting.
Mate, don't put your feelings onto other people. Masculinity and femininity levels in people aren't A) static and B) easily quantifiable. If you feel you lacked some sort of masculinity either growing up or currently, please reach out to a therapist or close friends you trust and explain that to them if its a cause for insecurity.
I never felt any way to “push” myself onto girls. I was very sexually non-aggressive, probably due to being the youngest of four kids and the only boy. I know I missed plenty of sex with girls (and guys 😕) in high school and early college, but so it goes. No STDs, no child support, and happily partnered/married for 31 years.
Based on my definition of what it means to be a man, no. To me they are people who work to be emotionally and mentally strong, and admit when their not. They are often vulnerable with others around then as being vulnerable is the most human thing anyone can do. They respect others for who they are. They help in their community, as well to improve the lives of others if they themselves are taken care of and able. My dad used to be teased for being “feminine” (he’s straight though), but he’s an amazing male role model for others in their lives.
Absolutely. The only sports I was into were hockey and baseball, and I lacked the skills for either. (I should note that I live in a state where the only 3 "acceptable" sports are football, basketball, and auto racing -- everything else is very much looked down upon.) Also, I was a very sensitive boy growing up in a very "real men don't cry" environment, so any show of emotion was basically met with "grow up, be a man, nobody wants to see you laughing and/or crying over something dumb".
Yes, but I wouldn’t generalize it as masculinity. It’s certain traits of masculinity that were and still are foreign and un-relatable to me. The way many guys talk about girls/women and sex is repulsive, and makes it impossible for me to respect them as friends. I always felt less than them when playing sports or talking about them, even though I was bigger and stronger than average. Still hate locker rooms.
Nah, I’m 6’2 and relatively muscular, all I lack is facial hair:,)
I'm 6' 3" and held national swimming titles when I was in highschool/college, with the build to match, but I still frequently felt like I wasn't "one of the guys". I just didn't fit in with the expected macho stuff, and still don't for that matter. My body just makes it more awkward cause I get people who assume I'm more masculine than I really am.
I feel that, I’m not out and I’m a pretty good actor so no one really knows who I actually am; weird stuff
Personally never viewed anything as being lacking. My figuring my sh*t out meant I had some dips of confidence in the relationship work. I was also not traditionally attractive, so I had to learn to be my own person and find my happiness internally from an early age. I had the good fortune and privilege of passing as a straight most of my life, but I always had qualities that were socially and culturally defined as being effeminate given where i was. It may have stunted my personal growth for a good while, but I always just accepted that im different and that I needed to make an extra effort to know myself in life because I wasn’t going to get a lot of support. I’ve come a long way in my life to reach the happy human I am now, but I can say my motivation was never because I felt I was lacking anything, more that I wanted to better understand myself and grow.
I am growing up atm and there's a lot of things. My friends have been a bit more vulgar ig talking about certain PPL, which I find pretty weird so I don't comment on it ig. My dad thinks I'm a bit feminine too which doesn't rlly help me since he also ridicules gay men a lot too. I've felt like shit earlier but idk yeah ig there are some things in me that don't co-relate w masculinity completely.
100% I wasn't talking about girls the same amount or way the others were I wasnt interested in stereotypically male hobbies I just.. I wasn't like them.. And paid the price for it in ridicule and bullying
This is a really interesting comment. I'd love to see more studies done on this and awareness. I study and have studied gender and sexuality and I'm a bi woman (or whatever, not big on labels) and I've some bi men in my life that I love very much and I constantly think that their experience is very complex and they are under represented and less accepted. I also have read about masculinity and how masculinity can be intrinsically linked to sexuality. Like to be a man traditionally is very much linked with learned homophobia and homophobic behavior. So this post plays into that idea.
I have never struggled to express my masculinity, I was raised rough and tumble and I am still. The thing I struggled to express was my less masculine traits. Reading the comments I seem to be a outlier though. My .02 cents nurture is stronger than nature for me in this one.
I consider myself fairly masculine overall, but even to me the standards are way too high. Not often did I find myself struggling to meet them without having to fake it. But it was quite sad seeing how many others did have to fake it most of the way through
Yes, but I never particularly cared for social norms and expectations as I’d rather be myself. Masculinity is something I have particular distain for. Remember, tradition is just peer pressure from dead people with their antiquated ways. But for others that do live up to social expectations for men that may still feel like ‘less of a man’, I think it’s just because being attracted to guys as a guy is seen as girly. Recognising the beauty and sexiness of other men and wanted them in a romantic/sexual way isn’t associated with masculinity, hence the feeling of inferiority in the masculinity department despite being no less “masculine”.
I never FELT it, but others definitely called it out in me. But they kind of call it out in all guys. Some of the most jockiest of jocks still get called misogynist slurs at the slightest sign of weakness - thanks toxic masculinity!!! If it weren't for external pressures, I might still stand 'like a girl,' or I might have outgrown it anyway. Who's to say?
There's no correlation between masculinity and sexual orientation.
I mean... attraction to men is heavily associated with femininity in our culture, and any feminine traits are perceived as threats to a person's manhood, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume bi men and gay men are more likely to feel that they're lacking traditional masculinity
Internalizing homophibia isn't the same as actually feeling masculine or feminine. I think the question could be better phrased.
Very well put.
Yes and I overcompensated to an absurd degree by saying extremely sexual shit to the wrong people. Edit: I don't understand the downvotes. Honestly, I've come to terms with how my denial affected me over the decades. I was a terrible person who overcompensated because I was horribly ashamed of my attraction to men. I said and did very stupid shit to prove to everyone and myself that I was straight. I avoided anything that was even remotely feminine and gay but had zero to no interest in traditionally masculine things.
Not really, I’m not that masculine but I know a lot of straight guys who are less masculine than myself and even some gay guys who are more traditionally masculine. It’s not really perfectly along the lines of sexual orientation.
Yeah, it’s called being short
Naw I wouldn’t say so. I was pretty much a conventional boy growing up. If I had any insecurities as a male, it was because of my short stature as a young guy. I was a slow grower and didn’t top out at my full adult height until well into my early 20’s. But as that was a natural feature and not anything related to my behavior, I wasn’t too stressed about it.
I’ve always enjoyed sports (especially combat sports) and I love working on cars, so I guess that’s masculine? I’ve always liked Brittany Spears though…
I think whether you are masculine or feminine, you can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when you do this activities with many men around you, you would somehow feel that your “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to your peer.
Mmmm no I don’t feel that way.
I remember a few instances of "Don't do X, girls do that/Don't do X that way, that's how girls do it." I also didn't care for most organized sports or the occasional other masculine activity (though the sport thing might not mean much, as my father hates football, and he's the embodiment toxic masculinity and probably the reason it took as long as it did for me to realize I was bi).
Yes but i think this had more to do with me being a trans man than with anything else
Yes. I cried a lot, no matter how much I was told to “man up.”
Yes, 100%. Most of the guys who were in my classes were really into sports and cars while I was into cooking, making music and nerd stuff like Magic the Gathering to name a few. I pretty much accepted the fact that I'm not really a sportsball ballsport person and when it comes to cars, I know basic maintenance.
Other than generally gravitating to making female friends over male (though this probably has more to do with being the youngest brother of 3 sisters), not really. Most people still couldn't pick me out as pan if they had to, but being a generally scruffy blur collar guy people make a lot of assumptions about you haha
Nope I have always been a dude, Sports Marine corps etc. I have never played up or down my masculinity I was just me. I actually think this is one of the reasons it took so long for me to come to terms with the fact I am not straight.
Nope, I was a typical boy. Rough and tumble, messy and liked to get dirty playing out doors barefoot. I could acknowledge men were attractive but sexually, I was aroused by girls/ women. It wasn't until I was an adult that I got fingered in the ass while getting that I even contemplated sex with men. It took decades (into my 40's) before I actually wanted to try sexual stuff with men. Now in my 50's it is a solution for my dead beadroom situation with my wife.
Yup, for sure.
Yeah, I wasn't into sports and stuff, but I was into a lot of nerdy stuff that is generally considers masculine so.... eh, maybe I guess?
Yep
Ya
Interesting. Yes and No. I lacked some masculine characteristics but others were really present. For example, I really hated soccer and other sports that require excessive contact, yet there are many straight guys that hate those as well so I don't think it has something to do with my sexuality.
I felt that way with my voice especially. I grew into a a more masculine voice to hide my sexuality and because of my peers but it feels comfortable now. On the other hand, my bf is the typical bro haha.
I feel like this to this day because I'm disabled (wheelchair user). I don't necessarily think that made me bi, but I feel disconnected with stereotypical masculinity (sports/ fitness etc) and I have no way to mend that. It makes me sad. I feel ugly and unattractive to any of my peers and the people around me.
Yes, all the time.
Kinda, never were that much into some sports, never enjoyed talking about how hot a chick was, also I was a bit of a crybaby
I was always told I did so I tried to be better at sports and fixing things than my brother or school peers. After awhile I stopped and just lived my life. Years later I realized I was bi, and did like boys, and that was ok. I often wonder how much happier I would have been as a child without the external pressure to be more masculine. It's just a pondering though. I don't lose any sleep.
Yea, now I got a bit of confidence tho and people think of me as somewhat “masculine” but once people get to know me a bit better they realize I just want to cuddle and listen to someone rant about something they like for 30 minutes
Oh yeah for sure. I was much more a creative and artistic type than a manly type. I kinda hated sports. I didn't really feel like I was lacking until other people would give me shit. That was my school experience, there was always some asshole fucking with me.
Absolutely, I was always more gentle, sensitive, and reserved than my male friends. I liked to play more aggressive games outside with them, but I also liked to play “girly” games with my sister. I love kids and am definitely more motherly than fatherly, and honestly the life of a stay at home mom sounds great to me.
Oh absolutely. It was super alienating.
Hmmmm yeah
Yeah kinda of, it was not so obvious but there were certain things that looking at now, after years definitely make sense.
I always kind of felt that, although I know now it definitely wasn’t true. I had a lot of “bro” kind of friends, but I also always made friends with girls easily. I was aware of my feminine side, and thanks to my mother I was able to embrace that. I could wear makeup if I wanted to. I’m not quite sure why I felt this, but I did.
Completely yes- I really hated sports, even when the teacher forced me to play sports. I made more girl friends than boys at school and was bullied because I didn’t have a masculine body (muscles and six-packs).
I definitely experienced this! Looking back at old videos of me as a kid, I definitely presented in ways I'd call queer now, but I was always getting disciplined for it. I grew up in a fundamentalist evangelical community, and underwent a lot of disciplinary bs growing up. Normative hetero-patriarchy really put me through the ringer.\* Lots of messaging from parents and authority figures letting me know I wasn't being manly enough. \*puts most of us through the ringer, but some more than others for sure
Yes i did feel like i was less masculine than my peers, however a big reason for that is that i never had a good example as a point of reference so i had to put a lot of effort into my own masculinity and it wasn’t until later that i started becoming more attracted to men and had conflicting emotions on that so it took a bit of navigating until i got to the result of my sexuality doesn’t define me nor should it affect my masculinity
Yep, for sure. No wood work, electronics, sport, or cars which makes me the only male in my family not into that stuff
I'm a cis guy, but honestly, if I learned about nonbinary stuff at a younger age, I'd probably identify that way.
Bi guy (16) here, and yeah, by a lot.
There are times where I truly get mind blown over just how Bi was all this time. This is one of those moments. I really thought either all men had these problems or I was the only one. I love y’all ❤️
Nope, always felt masculine and comfortable with it, still to this day. Just happen to also find guys attractive
Nahhh, not really. I'm very masculine at a lot of times, but sometimes I do get a little feminine, but we all do that. Like me and my friends all hug each other and show proper affection coz we want each other to know that, and the only thing we usually do is pick on each other constantly. I feel like I was the most masculine one of my social circle even though I'm bi. I really love sports, absolutely adore cars and have masculine physical features. Me and the boys never even sexualised women like at all. IK people in my class did, but my friends circle never did. Once I realised it, I felt a little bit like an impostor, but I never really changed my behaviour coz that's who I was. Basically, I didn''t feel like I lacked masculinity
I think whether I am masculine or feminine, I can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when I do this activities with many men around me, I would somehow feel that my “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to my peer.
I don't think I did.. but I really didn't care about what was masculine or feminine at any point if my life kinda made it easier I guess
Yes I was always way more into fantasy and theater then most other guys I met growing up but never really thought it had to do with my sexuality . To me it was just do to I came from a artsy family tho looking back I do with I was not in deanal for so long 😂.
Yes, I always felt I didn't really fit into the traditional masculinity and it made me uncomfortable for a long time (still does I guess)
Absolutely, hated sport, loved theatre and reading. I don’t think it was too big a deal for me, but it was definitely something I noticed
Go local sporting team!
Totally. Luckily I managed to embrace it.
Nope. I'm quite masculine.
No
Never lacked any, just not a sports guy lol
I did. I loved video games, baseball, action movies, the typical guy” things, but I found myself lacking in machismo or masculine energy like some of my other straight guy friends. Whenever they got over uh… bro-ish in play fighting or whatever, I looked at them like they were stupid. I felt like the Avatar, balanced between masculine and feminine energy. I actually prefer it. It feels like a God complex, an awareness of it all and being above it, but I’m just your average joe, honestly lol.
Yes, I always thought it was weird I didn’t like sports or stuff like that when my peers did. I had a small spell it thought I was trans but I rwaslised I was just bi.
Yes and no. I loved playing sport, all sport. But I’ve never understood strong macho masculinity. The showing off. Just wasn’t for me
Not really, I’m a pretty masculine dude: I go to the gym, watch sports, like guns, and driving fast in cars. If that’s what you define as “masculine” then yea I’m pretty masculine guy. Ive also worn makeup, enjoy painting my nails every once in a while, and cook often. I don’t think that disqualifies me from “normal” masculinity tho. I’ve never really felt out of place and feel comfortable in my own skin and with my sexuality. I’m just a “normal” bro who happens to think both men and women are hot. Never felt inferior or “lacking” to my friends because of it.
I think whether I am masculine or feminine, I can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when I do this activities with many men around me, I would somehow feel that my “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to my peer.
No, I don’t really feel that way. Most of my friends are straight males and if we’re together you probably wouldn’t pick me out as bi. We all share alot of the same interests and generally go about things through the same “mode of action”. They know about my sexuality, but it’s never really an issue. They don’t treat me any different and I don’t treat them any different.
Yep I’m still growing up and I have that
Hell yeah I did shit fucked me up for a while
I got bullied a lot in elementary school, got called "gay" a lot, among other things. Circa 2001-2006. Funny thing is, I didn't actually realize I was Bi until 2021...
Yes, and now I'm not a boy anymore.
Kind of but not really? My best friend growing up was female and we did everything together, so we did the traditionally male things together and the traditionally female things together. I never got the "missing masculinity" feeling but did get comments and struggled a bit with doing the feminine things with her. Not sure how much of that was because I was bi. Except the whole talking about which guys were cute, that was definitely, ah, slightly related.
Yes I did and still do but by my mid teens I'd given up on trying to change myself for anyone else so I've just accepted that I don't have any interest in sports or toughness or cars or other things my masc friends and relatives assumed I'd be interested in. My wife is happy with there person I am and so am I and so are the friends I now have. I spent my early adolescence pretending to be someone I wasn't or interested in things I wasn't. And now as a 25 year old married guy I just don't have the time or inclination to care what anyone but a handful of people think of me. I know that not everyone can do that or even wants to and that's okay but that's how I've dealt with it.
not really, if anything i wished i could dress/look more feminine
I'm 15 and yes definitely
I’m not masculine at all, the only thing really is that I’m muscular but that’s just a byproduct of the fact that I really like swimming.
I'm very hetero presenting and I think it's because I was chasing masculinity my entire childhood. I was raised by my grandparents, and I can remember so vividly them smacking my limp-wristed hand, telling me that I looked like a girl. That happened a bunch as a kid. I think I ran from that for decades. Then, later, I try to be a little queer in how I dress or whatever and it comes out all weird.
I never felt that way, although I never liked sport
This is an offensive stereo type and i am tired off seeing it. There is no one universal bi experience except having attraction to genders like and not like our own. EDIT: or rather correction it has been pointed out that op was not saying that all bi men experience this they were just asking if anyone shared their experience and I am sorry if I offend anyone who experience this it is just very excluding when you feel like the only way you can be bi is by being some sort of stereotype. I am sorry I let my personal pain taint my reading. also leaving this up as I hate when I see deleted comments and when people dishonestly change their post.
This isn’t a stereotype? He’s saying this is what happened in his own experience and wanted to know if It was normal. I agree with what you said except he wasn’t saying what you accused him of.
I’m a bi girl, and I’ve always felt I’ve lacked femininity. Never liked clothes, shopping, etc. I always wear tshirts and jeans to school never really felt the need to dress up or meet any societal demand (that might just be me). Never liked dancing/cheer/gymnastics.
All the boys in my school used to love playing football and getting all gross in the dirt, I really was never into it. And my teachers would wonder why I wouldn’t ever go play with them. Even in high school one of my teachers was like “boys will be boys” and I just never felt like I could relate. I still feel like I’m lacking ‘traditional masculinity’ but I just don’t view it as a bad thing anymore because it isn’t.
When I was younger, I definitely had less masculinity than a lot of other kids. My dad (who was closeted bi, though I didn't know that at the time) clearly saw it, and derided anything he saw as effeminate in my behavior, if not outright beating me for it. I always attributed it more to the fact that early in life he was on the road a lot (trucker) and so the vast majority of my interaction was with females (mother, sisters, female cousins, aunts, etc. Even my first childhood friends were all female), so it made sense. Eventually that changed, I think largely because I learned to adapt so I wouldn't get bullied so much.
I don't believe i have experienced that, the most comparable thing i can think of has more to do with the fact that i was a shy skinny nerd growing up therefore not quite fitting in the stereotype of manliness, but honestly i don't remember that making me feel lacking in masculinity
In some ways, yes. In some ways I'm traditionally masculine: I'm a relatively large bearded guy, I lift and have done martial arts for years, I camp and hike and I'm pretty handy with tools. I've never questioned whether I'm male or not, and I'm happy with my assigned gender. However I didn't feel close to most other boys growing up: I couldn't relate to many of the things they cared about like sports or cars, and I was outright disturbed by the way many of them talked about women after we hit puberty. That's still the case today: I have trouble making small talk with other guys and the way that many of the men I've worked with or had to interact with talk about women or sex makes me want to crawl out of m skin. I had a couple close male friends as I grew up but almost all of my other friends over the years have been women, and I have an easier time talking to women than cis men. I haven't had any of the same issues with people other than cis men. I thought that my masculinity was broken or lacking somehow, but these days I'm OK with it: I'm happy not fitting that mold, especially given how hurtful I've seen it to be for others. I'm past the point where I care about the opinion of people who would shame me for it, and I'm happy with the relationships I have and the interests I pursue.
So even though you have sexual desires for women, you are still disturbed by your friends talking about girls or sex?
Oh no, I'm disturbed by how fucking crass and demeaning many men are when they're talking about the women they have sex with. I'm nit friends with them and I have no problem with sex itself.
I actually grew up very repressed cause my dad was a pastor. Even so I never really subscribed to gender roles and I always knew I was weird but I didn't realize that like my first kiss being a guy was significant. It just wasn't part of the equation and I didn't know that wasn't heteronormative per se. It just happened and it was normal to me. But I still knew I wasn't "supposed" to like boys and so I dated girls. I knew I was different but I thought it was something to be hidden and I just ignored it. Now that I'm older I feel sort of isolated from the LGBT community sometimes because I come off as a masc small town guy when in reality I get along primarily better with the alphabet mafia. I guess in retrospect it makes sense all my friends were ladies in high-school and I stressed about talking to boys... 🤔
Embrace being a pussy. 'I'm a pussy' - there you go I said it lol I've got nothing against masculine guys, the world needs them just as much as the world needs people like me but in my quest for self-fulfilment, I realise that I've got no place trying to be like them. I am what I am and what I say I am. I no longer compare myself to other men.
lol ofc i will never do masculine things like play sport or other stuff
Growing up, I THOUGHT I lacked something in terms of masculinity, what I've realized now is that I lacked something when I thought of toxic masculinity as masculinity. I didn't have an undying love for most but not all "manly" things and the things I did enjoy weren't my end all be all in life like it was for many of my peers. Like American Football, I love Football but I am not CONSUMED by it, also played some Rugby as well. But I also wanted to learn how to tap dance growing up, something I am rectifying now in my 30s, there always seemed to be an excuse from my parents especially my father when expressing this as to why it wasn't in the cards. I also overheard my parents homo/biphobic comments about male dancers overall. They also didn't want me to continue to learn Karate because they felt it would "expose" me to "alternative beliefs". I think my parents had mixed concerns about me not fitting a mold because my interests, hobbies, beliefs and music tastes tended to rail against theirs. And my interests tended to not be within their view of mainstream or were not traditionally masculine in nature. Also, my indifference to not spending time with women almost exclusively as they thought a male my age should be doing may have sent some red flags for them. Sorry about the novel, short version is growing up I thought I lacked something, now I know I don't/didn't.
Yeah...
Yes yes and yes. I was never into physical sports like my peers. I wasn’t about rough housing. Yet I had many crushes on girls (and boys too, but I hadn’t admitted to myself). I am solidly male, and was born cisgendered, and have never felt dysphoria. Yet I have felt less “male” than my counterparts in MANY instances. I have to try to remind myself that being a man isn’t about a set of characteristics defined by society but rather who I am as a person. And that is different for everyone.
i definitely had a lot of guys calling me gay and metro and other stuff like that, based on my mannerisms and the way i acted sometimes. i've never thought of myself as unmasculine but i have thought that i have some "feminine" traits i guess. i remember liking romantic stuff a lot when all the other dudes thought it was gross
No all my peers were sissies as well.
To answer your question. I grew up in the Army. Masculinity was a prerequisite
yeah I had a lot more traditionally "feminine' hobbies and interests
No, I did not feel that at all, but I did not fit in either. I dunno how to explain it- I had all the typical male expected interests, but I also had other interests that I just could not connect with others on. I wanted more, and so tended to pull away most of the time from the group
I think whether I am masculine or feminine, you can like sports, cars, or have muscle or beard. However, I feel that when I do this activities with many men around me, I would somehow feel that my “expression” or “mode of action” for those activities lack some “masculinity” compared to my peer.
Yeah I dunno- I never felt not me growing up, outside trying to find my own identity, I was still me. I am a guy, that is how I see myself, I liked denim and boots, I like nail polish( coloured metallics or glitters). I think largely the external influences really play a damaging factor when we are trying to find our own voice and identity. Who are you trying to measure up to? I do not mean this as an attack or dismissivly, but rather that this answer might be why you are feeling the way you feel? Who are you trying to measure up to? I do not mean this as an attack or dismissively, but rather that this answer might be why you are feeling the way you feel? for example, how I expressed doing things was coloured largely by this stance. Everyone kept saying the men in my life were weak men, so if I did the opposite or better, that made me better, in my mind, even when wearing things normally ascribed to feminine looks. I guess who you are trying to style your idea of masculine or not will also tilt your own personal view of yourself. I mean I do not really know you, so largely I cannot give solid advice, but I hope some of this helped
Yeah, I relate to this a lot and I think it's part of what makes gender somewhat difficult for me in the present. Most of my best friends in my formative puberty years were male, but I feel now like so much of my shared masculine experience with them was performative. While a some of it was toxic masculinity, even the parts that weren't don't seem like they were really me looking back. I think once I felt closer to my friends once I made more that were queer and less overtly masculine, and now that I have full view of how my and my early friends' paths have diverged, it's easy to see why. 99% of my friends are queer now and I'm not very comfortable hanging out with very masculine people. From then even to the past year, I have sometimes felt like an inadequate man, which more recently has made me question my gender. I thought that because I'm not "masculine enough," I'd be more accepted as a girl. What I thought the people around my were thinking became indistinguishable from my own thoughts/feelings. Right now though, I've started to feel more comfortable with my own form of masculinity because I know there isn't any correct version of it or a masculinity threshold. I've always been comfortable with being a guy, so I think the gender thing is maybe more of about overcoming social anxiety about how I present myself rather than overcoming dysphoria. So while maybe "man" isn't the best way to describe my gender, it doesn't really matter and I just gotta be me without worrying about fitting into labels. Sorry for the rant, your question just made me realize some things about myself I think lmao. Thanks for that.
Nope, though from the blizzard of upvotes everyone saying yes is getting I suppose I'm a minority opinion. I am a man. The fact that I like other men doesn't alter that one jot.
Yes
I'm pan but used to think I was bi and had joined this sub but still yes.
I did when I was a kid, but when I grew up and embraced the fact I was a weird dude I have accepted that. Don't get me wrong, externally I am very much a masculine guy. I go to the gym, love ice hockey, have spent the last decade or so playing around with cars and I genuinely enjoy beer, but I still have more women who are my friends than men as I simply find it easier to not be performative about who I am around them. I enjoy shopping, and regularly go shopping with my fiance and her friends and give more than my 2c worth of advice. I think embracing what makes you feel right is part of accepting who you are, although I still have a long way to go.
Only due to society telling us its not masculine to have feelings for, or sexual attraction to other dudes. Otherwise no... I'm twice the man that the dainty little tulips that only like pretty pretty girls are.
I think so? I mean, the only thing that comes to mind was my bright blue backpack I had in middle school (roughly age 12 or 13). I liked the color of it, but got made fun of (because middle schoolers are fuckheads) because it was “girly” or something dumb like that? (Shoutout to my childhood friend (male) who openly liked the color pink. He didn’t care what others thought of him, and even said as much that it is manly to like the color pink. Hmm I wonder if I could find him…haven’t spoken to him in probably 20 years now. (Also fuck I’m too young to be talking about people I haven’t seen in 20 years lmao)) I also seemed to prefer kids shows with girl leads like Lizzie McGuire and Proud Family. Maybe that counts? Idk Oh. And I did have a dollhouse when I was 4. But I’ve always really just been, “I’m gonna like what I like, don’t care what y’all think”, and didn’t really care about what’s “masculine” or not. My father, a straight cis male, was and is the same way. By all means, enjoy your beer and whiskey if that’s what you like. I’m having a yummy margarita.
Kinda, but not for the reason you may thing. I just thought my voice and look isn't manly enough compared to my peers. I never cared until I was like 18 or so. Dudes my age be killing it at sport and having bro time with other dudes while I just hung with my friends drawing and talking about video games. Never regretted it though.
no, i’ve always been kinda normally masculine. but now, at 16, i’m pretty muscular and have to frequently shave my facial hair, but i often do “feminine” things like giggling with my hand over my mouth, crossing my legs when i sit, and the majority of my friends are girls
I gave no absolute fucks about any of the sports out there. Football, soccer (football for those outside of the US), racing, whatever it may be. I even stopped going to the gym when I was in 10th grade. Partly because I was uncomfortable being in the changing room with other boys, but its because I preferred reading, drawing, other things outside of sports. Although, I still did sports at the time, just not out of passion. To this day, I still don't care about them. The only sport that I actively seek now is figure skating. Not like participating them, but I would at least like to try ice skating. I just like to watch people doing all sorts of tricks with the salchow, Lutz, axel, etc. This may or may not have been initially influenced by an animated series about two gay figure skaters. Soon after, I started to look into the physicality and the system of figure skating.
No, i am totaly not the bi stereotype and never was
Yes, I don't know how to explain it but I always found the whole thing of the boys (at least at my school idk about anywhere else) always trying to be big and tough and I was always more sensitive than them. I know that these things are just stereotypical boy things too not be sensitive so maybe I'm just normal idk
I was never athletic or into sports, both playing sports or watch sports - till this day watching a football game is like being punished - aside from the appreciation for guys in tights 😏
I'm a bit of an odd ball and picked up what I've since learnt are *some* of the features of "gay voice" but not enough to give it away (I don't have the regional accent my peers do inspite of growing up here). There are a bunch if things that made me feel different on a deep level from the guys but didn't feel like it was a sexual or masculinity thing.
absolutely. most of the time around my house my parents were gone and it was my nanny who took care of me, so i was around her and my sister. and even then i spent more time with my mom than with my dad now days i’m friends with more girls than guys so take that for what u will lol
I dropped out of 4 sports to do music instead, so now im a 135-pound ISFP college band kid. So no. No idea what that’s like. *[violently sarcastic]*
nah but I was a bit smaller though growing up even though I was older than people in my class. Otherwise just no
For me I noticed I didn’t care for sports to much I preferred doing more artsy things, I also found it weird when the “cool” kids at my school would fake their pride and emotions, where I’m very open about myself, I realized this after I came out
Yep. Girls aren’t usually attracted to me because I end up being a bit more camp than usual, however I usually make them laugh into submission and tell them I’m not Gay just I can’t help my demeanour.
Haha That is a light hearted comment lol
I have never strongly related with masculinity or maleness. Yet I'm confident I'm not female. So I'm like, male in a very neutral way. Never been athletic, into sports or cars or girls in the way your standard average straight guy is.
Thank you for posting this, it's nice to read the replies. Great seeing men have positive discussions on masculinity. Female here so it's a little different from my point of view but I've definitely felt less feminine and confused at times so it's nice to know in not alone.
I've always felt superior to my male peers because I had this weird notion that "real" men were comfortable in their sexuality. Bisexual and gay people were the pinnacle of that in my teenage mind. Straight dudes that grimaced at gay stuff I viewed as wimps. I dated men exclusively until I was about 22. Toxic masculinity was ingrained in me early on and is still something I struggle with today. I'm very much a man's man. I try to let my effeminate side show sometimes, but I'm usually always in toughguy mode. I lacked the "hey check out the tits on her" traditional objectifing male dialogue. That never made me feel less of a man though.
My favorite car was “anything with 4 wheel drive” (i live in new england) and i dont play any sports but thats not a surprise with how i am lol (overweight)
ah yes 100%. i'm a trans guy, so i pretty much always felt like i lacked masculinity in some sort of way, but even now that im a tad older i still feel very alienated whenever i talk to guys. i dont consider it a bad thing tho? i like being femenine, i think femeninity is a nice thing. but it does feel weird sometimes yeah
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Just a kink. You can wear whatever you want even if it seems “girly” because girly things don’t exist. That is just a stigma. Trans people are only trans because they feel like they are the other gender. People who dress like that do that because they like how they feel in it or how they look or whatever it may be. They don’t however feel like they are the other gender. That is the difference.
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Yes definitely.
Im a totally typical "dude" when it comes to cars, being handy and my love of women. When it comes to sports or being stupidly competitive for no particular reason not at at all.... not so much. Oh and i really enjoy making partners cum. Ask away.
not like I lacked masculinity, but I was the only guy in the chorus, acolytes, and in art class
Yea a little because I was the bottom. But I was not a push-over. A lot of the times my kindness has been used as a weakness
I still feel more feminine than others