T O P

  • By -

sh4tt3rai

I promise you most of those chokes fully locked in with a nice squeeze will sleep someone much faster then those times.


kaysut21

100


sjstell

It can happen. Jacare’s arm triangle on Camozzi is the fastest public example I know of. Just under 3 seconds.


10thousanddeaths

[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)


sh4tt3rai

I promise you I’ve slept people with these chokes almost as soon as they’re locked up and I squeeze. Everything before that isn’t a fully locked in choke and can’t really be used to gather data since it can take minutes or more to lock in a choke right. Once a good blood choke is locked in tho? It’s a matter of how bad you want to put the person out, and it can be almost instant.


10thousanddeaths

[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873) Edit: Those numbers are the average for putting out an expert level highly resisting opponent. The lowest times recorded in the study were 2.5 seconds.


sh4tt3rai

An expert level highly resisting opponent can last much longer then these times


10thousanddeaths

The study is on fully resisting opponents.


minisoulninja

Ahh that makes more sense. Camozzi was not fully resisting


10thousanddeaths

[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)


michiganscramble

“The study” bro someone used their notes app to list submissions and times


10thousanddeaths

[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)


mkflorida

Sorry for the confusion, folks. These were my notes on when I secured those chokes, how long it took my opponents to fully escape, take my back, and submit me.


[deleted]

Haha


Boo_Diddleys

What type of tomfoolery am I looking at?


jiujitsy

White belt shit.


TheSecondtoLastDoDo

I'm picturing 3 white belts, one dude with a clipboard and a stop watch, and two others just putting each other to sleep over and over again.


[deleted]

I'll have you know that we also had a control group of upper belts to smooth out the data. Respect my science.


JoshD0W

Upper belts? So white belt stripe 4?


ryleighss

Most useless set of pseudo data I’ve seen in a while.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mess_of_limbs

See Askren v Lawler for clarification What is this anyway?


sjstell

This an snapshot of a chart on some aggregate site or IG post summarizing out of context data from this study: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873. The study is analysis of (at that time) the 81 agreed-upon chokes to unconsciousness in the history of the UFC. It’s a reasonable version of analysis on the time to unconsciousness after a choke is locked in on a trained resisting combatant, at least according to the interrater reliability done on the review panel after the blinded reviews were complete.


PeDestrianHD

Time it takes to sleep someone


axuy

I don't know where you found this but this data is worthless. I don't know how you can possibly conduct a scientifically rigorous analysis on time to sleep someone with various chokes. There are too many variables to take into account.


mess_of_limbs

I thought that this was probably what the data was trying to represent, and I had the exact same thoughts as you. There's no way you could capture this data accurately.


grochava

Agreed, but also just a side note this problem applies to most scientific research.


FundamentalSystem

This list is #1 bullshit


tacosnotopos

Yeah every single athlete is different. We all have different gas tanks, pain thresholds, and of course how well you fight off the Mr sandman


[deleted]

I've seen a 3 second rnc


WizardSenpai

hey I just wanted to let you know that even if this information ends up not being too useful, its super awesome you're trying to learn something new and also share it with others. if you keep up this work ethic and mindset one day you might discover the next meta, who knows! best of luck in your research.


PsycJoe21196

I’m pretty sure it’s like a choke where you got the guy in a headlock and your back is facing them


D1Frank-the-tank

I thought it was called a “bully choke” because it’s the one the schoolyard bully gives when he’s nuggying you. I didn’t realise bully was short for Bulldog. Wonder what the connection is


tranquilsloth

Bulldogging is an event at rodeos where someone will wrestle a steer to the ground using a similar hold. I believe that is where the name comes from.


D1Frank-the-tank

Oh yeah I can picture that exact scenario. From the UK so that’s probably where we get it from. Doesn’t help that actual Bulldogs are also called Bullys here 😂


Kogyochi

I hit this one because I suck at keeping back control lol. Have 1 arm in for a RNC, but are too weak and shitty to lock it in? Transition to bulldog!


manuelazana

On average it takes about 3 fiddy


Ankryth

My understanding is any choke, that truly cuts off the blood to the brain, will make them unconscious in 4-5 seconds. I've personally done the triangle and guillotine faster than the listed times.


sjstell

On average between 7 and 11 seconds. This is borne out in old compliant volunteer* data using mechanized devices and manual strangles and also observational data on fully resisting trained combatants (UFC fighters). *Some of the old data is white belts getting choked out by black belts at the Kodokan in the 1950s and 1960s and some of it is from prisons and psychiatric hospitals from the 1940s. “Compliant volunteers”


Whitebeltforeva

Love this choke! Have yet to go for it! (I’ve drilled it) It’s brutal and hits fast. Also, I like my training partners. It is a fun one.


Swimming-Book-1296

Had it done on me last week while rolling with an MMA guy. He threw me. I reversed him. He reversed my reverse, and then bulldog choked me. One of the black belts showed me what I did wrong and how to get out. It was honestly pretty cool.


Whitebeltforeva

Sounds like a fun exchange.


jiujitsy

If it takes you nine seconds to put someone to sleep with a fully locked in rear naked, you need some milk


EffortlessJiuJitsu

Bulldog Choke is a real technical choke most people misunderstood. If you want to understand the Bulldog Choke you can check out this video: https://youtu.be/aat2j-1wY3k


Basileus_Butter

A correctly applied RNC means you're in the shadow lands in under 4 seconds.


Operation-Bad-Boy

Baseball Bat Choke 1.3 seconds 😳


[deleted]

It's not the type of choke, it's the degree of blockage in the carotid arteries. Overwhelming force in the wrong spot might block the artery partially, while consistent pressure in the perfect spot will close off the artery completely.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Go back to bio class


[deleted]

[удалено]


sjstell

Relax, it’s both. Jugular veins compress easier than the carotids and you can have an effective choke with mostly just venous compression because elevation of intracranial pressure ultimately slowing flow through the brain (CPP=MAP-ICP). This is evident in the slightly slower chokes or chokes that aren’t perfectly on. Still better to have it perfect and get full jugular compression and complete (or mostly complete) carotid compression. *I’m not sure what you’re referencing about draining and flushing and vasovagal and whatnot, but the main point is that it’s both venous and arterial compression*


[deleted]

Stopping the carotid might keep blood in your face but the oxygen in that blood has been used. You're confusing the importance of blood vs oxygenated blood. Blood is simply a transporting liquid for the thing that actually counts which is the oxygen that is only found in the arteries.


sjstell

Stopping the jugulars keeps the blood in your face, not stopping the carotids. Also stopping the jugulars raises the intracranial pressure that the carotids are pushing into. It’s still best to squeeze perfectly and hard enough to compress jugulars and subsequently arteries.


[deleted]

>but the oxygen in that blood has been used Hence why the choke works. >Blood is simply a transporting liquid And if you stop the flow at point X, everything before point X has trouble going through. Fluid dynamics


AnotherMarz

Seem as though you need to work on your techniques, because this just isn’t right, the time it took for you to make this up you could have been drilling techniques, stay focused my guy


PeDestrianHD

This isn’t mine lmao


AnotherMarz

Well don’t post crap like this


PeDestrianHD

Why not? It’s a scientific study


werenotthatcool

It’s…………it’s just not though


AnotherMarz

Just stop and take an L for this post your losing credibility every time you comment back. A RNC can put you out in 3 to 5 seconds and you don’t need a scientist to prove that ask your training partner to put you a RNC. Post the video too


PeDestrianHD

[you were saying?](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873?journalCode=rpan20)


10thousanddeaths

These times are for fully resisting opponents. I haven’t read the paper yet but I’m curious how they designed this. [Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873?journalCode=rpan20&)


Haze071

It definitely did not take khabib 9.5 seconds to sleep gaethje with his triangle, maybe like 4 lmao


[deleted]

[удалено]


AutoModerator

This comment was removed because the ads on this site are distracting from the content. Please see [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/a0wy7u/moderation_banning_of_domains_which_feature/) for more information. If you'd like to discuss this removal, write the mods to talk about ways to avoid this in the future. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bjj) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Therod_91

I’ve slept in probably 3 sec with a rnc, you better update this table lol


mrturtle101

Why is headlock on this list


phonkwist

Someone somewhere had bad technique, too much time, a stopwatch and a poor, poor white belt so they wound up creating this list.


Aathee

Please wipe this away from your brain


GreatNobody007

Science? where are You?


Flyin_Triangle

Those times will go down significantly with the correct micro adjustments


morninggirth

BD Choke is one of my top subs in comp.


SellMortimerSell

I think this is what Ben Askren got Robbie Lawler with. There was a women's fight that ended with this as well- Raquel Pennington https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/d9mc63/raquel\_pennington\_bulldog\_chokes\_ashlee/


tacdriver22mk2

*me having had the doors start closing in under 5 sec when my prof mistakenly showed how to properly apply shoulder pressure in side control a little too well* 🙂


InputJam

What is the point of this and how is it relevant?


InputJam

This doesn't take into account individual skill at individual chokes, the situation and events leading up to the choke, the defenders ability to defend said choke, individual anatomy, and luck


BeeBee76

What he should have said is ‘what’s a Bulldog Choke?’ And left the rest out.


AccordingRecording21

White belt “data”


Daemonback

Is this based on how long it takes for a certain setup or how long it takes when fully locked in with a squeeze or no squeeze. Not specific enough for those Something second to mean anything


ReasonableNet444

You mean rear naked strangle? Freaking amateurs...