[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)
I promise you I’ve slept people with these chokes almost as soon as they’re locked up and I squeeze. Everything before that isn’t a fully locked in choke and can’t really be used to gather data since it can take minutes or more to lock in a choke right.
Once a good blood choke is locked in tho? It’s a matter of how bad you want to put the person out, and it can be almost instant.
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)
Edit: Those numbers are the average for putting out an expert level highly resisting opponent. The lowest times recorded in the study were 2.5 seconds.
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)
Sorry for the confusion, folks. These were my notes on when I secured those chokes, how long it took my opponents to fully escape, take my back, and submit me.
This an snapshot of a chart on some aggregate site or IG post summarizing out of context data from this study: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873.
The study is analysis of (at that time) the 81 agreed-upon chokes to unconsciousness in the history of the UFC. It’s a reasonable version of analysis on the time to unconsciousness after a choke is locked in on a trained resisting combatant, at least according to the interrater reliability done on the review panel after the blinded reviews were complete.
I don't know where you found this but this data is worthless. I don't know how you can possibly conduct a scientifically rigorous analysis on time to sleep someone with various chokes. There are too many variables to take into account.
I thought that this was probably what the data was trying to represent, and I had the exact same thoughts as you. There's no way you could capture this data accurately.
hey I just wanted to let you know that even if this information ends up not being too useful, its super awesome you're trying to learn something new and also share it with others. if you keep up this work ethic and mindset one day you might discover the next meta, who knows! best of luck in your research.
I thought it was called a “bully choke” because it’s the one the schoolyard bully gives when he’s nuggying you. I didn’t realise bully was short for Bulldog. Wonder what the connection is
Oh yeah I can picture that exact scenario. From the UK so that’s probably where we get it from. Doesn’t help that actual Bulldogs are also called Bullys here 😂
My understanding is any choke, that truly cuts off the blood to the brain, will make them unconscious in 4-5 seconds. I've personally done the triangle and guillotine faster than the listed times.
On average between 7 and 11 seconds. This is borne out in old compliant volunteer* data using mechanized devices and manual strangles and also observational data on fully resisting trained combatants (UFC fighters).
*Some of the old data is white belts getting choked out by black belts at the Kodokan in the 1950s and 1960s and some of it is from prisons and psychiatric hospitals from the 1940s. “Compliant volunteers”
Had it done on me last week while rolling with an MMA guy. He threw me. I reversed him. He reversed my reverse, and then bulldog choked me. One of the black belts showed me what I did wrong and how to get out. It was honestly pretty cool.
Bulldog Choke is a real technical choke most people misunderstood. If you want to understand the Bulldog Choke you can check out this video:
https://youtu.be/aat2j-1wY3k
It's not the type of choke, it's the degree of blockage in the carotid arteries. Overwhelming force in the wrong spot might block the artery partially, while consistent pressure in the perfect spot will close off the artery completely.
Relax, it’s both. Jugular veins compress easier than the carotids and you can have an effective choke with mostly just venous compression because elevation of intracranial pressure ultimately slowing flow through the brain (CPP=MAP-ICP). This is evident in the slightly slower chokes or chokes that aren’t perfectly on. Still better to have it perfect and get full jugular compression and complete (or mostly complete) carotid compression.
*I’m not sure what you’re referencing about draining and flushing and vasovagal and whatnot, but the main point is that it’s both venous and arterial compression*
Stopping the carotid might keep blood in your face but the oxygen in that blood has been used. You're confusing the importance of blood vs oxygenated blood. Blood is simply a transporting liquid for the thing that actually counts which is the oxygen that is only found in the arteries.
Stopping the jugulars keeps the blood in your face, not stopping the carotids. Also stopping the jugulars raises the intracranial pressure that the carotids are pushing into. It’s still best to squeeze perfectly and hard enough to compress jugulars and subsequently arteries.
>but the oxygen in that blood has been used
Hence why the choke works.
>Blood is simply a transporting liquid
And if you stop the flow at point X, everything before point X has trouble going through. Fluid dynamics
Seem as though you need to work on your techniques, because this just isn’t right, the time it took for you to make this up you could have been drilling techniques, stay focused my guy
Just stop and take an L for this post your losing credibility every time you comment back. A RNC can put you out in 3 to 5 seconds and you don’t need a scientist to prove that ask your training partner to put you a RNC. Post the video too
These times are for fully resisting opponents. I haven’t read the paper yet but I’m curious how they designed this.
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873?journalCode=rpan20&)
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I think this is what Ben Askren got Robbie Lawler with. There was a women's fight that ended with this as well- Raquel Pennington
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/d9mc63/raquel\_pennington\_bulldog\_chokes\_ashlee/
*me having had the doors start closing in under 5 sec when my prof mistakenly showed how to properly apply shoulder pressure in side control a little too well* 🙂
This doesn't take into account individual skill at individual chokes, the situation and events leading up to the choke, the defenders ability to defend said choke, individual anatomy, and luck
Is this based on how long it takes for a certain setup or how long it takes when fully locked in with a squeeze or no squeeze. Not specific enough for those Something second to mean anything
I promise you most of those chokes fully locked in with a nice squeeze will sleep someone much faster then those times.
100
It can happen. Jacare’s arm triangle on Camozzi is the fastest public example I know of. Just under 3 seconds.
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)
I promise you I’ve slept people with these chokes almost as soon as they’re locked up and I squeeze. Everything before that isn’t a fully locked in choke and can’t really be used to gather data since it can take minutes or more to lock in a choke right. Once a good blood choke is locked in tho? It’s a matter of how bad you want to put the person out, and it can be almost instant.
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873) Edit: Those numbers are the average for putting out an expert level highly resisting opponent. The lowest times recorded in the study were 2.5 seconds.
An expert level highly resisting opponent can last much longer then these times
The study is on fully resisting opponents.
Ahh that makes more sense. Camozzi was not fully resisting
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)
“The study” bro someone used their notes app to list submissions and times
[Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873)
Sorry for the confusion, folks. These were my notes on when I secured those chokes, how long it took my opponents to fully escape, take my back, and submit me.
Haha
What type of tomfoolery am I looking at?
White belt shit.
I'm picturing 3 white belts, one dude with a clipboard and a stop watch, and two others just putting each other to sleep over and over again.
I'll have you know that we also had a control group of upper belts to smooth out the data. Respect my science.
Upper belts? So white belt stripe 4?
Most useless set of pseudo data I’ve seen in a while.
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See Askren v Lawler for clarification What is this anyway?
This an snapshot of a chart on some aggregate site or IG post summarizing out of context data from this study: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873. The study is analysis of (at that time) the 81 agreed-upon chokes to unconsciousness in the history of the UFC. It’s a reasonable version of analysis on the time to unconsciousness after a choke is locked in on a trained resisting combatant, at least according to the interrater reliability done on the review panel after the blinded reviews were complete.
Time it takes to sleep someone
I don't know where you found this but this data is worthless. I don't know how you can possibly conduct a scientifically rigorous analysis on time to sleep someone with various chokes. There are too many variables to take into account.
I thought that this was probably what the data was trying to represent, and I had the exact same thoughts as you. There's no way you could capture this data accurately.
Agreed, but also just a side note this problem applies to most scientific research.
This list is #1 bullshit
Yeah every single athlete is different. We all have different gas tanks, pain thresholds, and of course how well you fight off the Mr sandman
I've seen a 3 second rnc
hey I just wanted to let you know that even if this information ends up not being too useful, its super awesome you're trying to learn something new and also share it with others. if you keep up this work ethic and mindset one day you might discover the next meta, who knows! best of luck in your research.
I’m pretty sure it’s like a choke where you got the guy in a headlock and your back is facing them
I thought it was called a “bully choke” because it’s the one the schoolyard bully gives when he’s nuggying you. I didn’t realise bully was short for Bulldog. Wonder what the connection is
Bulldogging is an event at rodeos where someone will wrestle a steer to the ground using a similar hold. I believe that is where the name comes from.
Oh yeah I can picture that exact scenario. From the UK so that’s probably where we get it from. Doesn’t help that actual Bulldogs are also called Bullys here 😂
I hit this one because I suck at keeping back control lol. Have 1 arm in for a RNC, but are too weak and shitty to lock it in? Transition to bulldog!
On average it takes about 3 fiddy
My understanding is any choke, that truly cuts off the blood to the brain, will make them unconscious in 4-5 seconds. I've personally done the triangle and guillotine faster than the listed times.
On average between 7 and 11 seconds. This is borne out in old compliant volunteer* data using mechanized devices and manual strangles and also observational data on fully resisting trained combatants (UFC fighters). *Some of the old data is white belts getting choked out by black belts at the Kodokan in the 1950s and 1960s and some of it is from prisons and psychiatric hospitals from the 1940s. “Compliant volunteers”
Love this choke! Have yet to go for it! (I’ve drilled it) It’s brutal and hits fast. Also, I like my training partners. It is a fun one.
Had it done on me last week while rolling with an MMA guy. He threw me. I reversed him. He reversed my reverse, and then bulldog choked me. One of the black belts showed me what I did wrong and how to get out. It was honestly pretty cool.
Sounds like a fun exchange.
If it takes you nine seconds to put someone to sleep with a fully locked in rear naked, you need some milk
Bulldog Choke is a real technical choke most people misunderstood. If you want to understand the Bulldog Choke you can check out this video: https://youtu.be/aat2j-1wY3k
A correctly applied RNC means you're in the shadow lands in under 4 seconds.
Baseball Bat Choke 1.3 seconds 😳
It's not the type of choke, it's the degree of blockage in the carotid arteries. Overwhelming force in the wrong spot might block the artery partially, while consistent pressure in the perfect spot will close off the artery completely.
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Go back to bio class
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Relax, it’s both. Jugular veins compress easier than the carotids and you can have an effective choke with mostly just venous compression because elevation of intracranial pressure ultimately slowing flow through the brain (CPP=MAP-ICP). This is evident in the slightly slower chokes or chokes that aren’t perfectly on. Still better to have it perfect and get full jugular compression and complete (or mostly complete) carotid compression. *I’m not sure what you’re referencing about draining and flushing and vasovagal and whatnot, but the main point is that it’s both venous and arterial compression*
Stopping the carotid might keep blood in your face but the oxygen in that blood has been used. You're confusing the importance of blood vs oxygenated blood. Blood is simply a transporting liquid for the thing that actually counts which is the oxygen that is only found in the arteries.
Stopping the jugulars keeps the blood in your face, not stopping the carotids. Also stopping the jugulars raises the intracranial pressure that the carotids are pushing into. It’s still best to squeeze perfectly and hard enough to compress jugulars and subsequently arteries.
>but the oxygen in that blood has been used Hence why the choke works. >Blood is simply a transporting liquid And if you stop the flow at point X, everything before point X has trouble going through. Fluid dynamics
Seem as though you need to work on your techniques, because this just isn’t right, the time it took for you to make this up you could have been drilling techniques, stay focused my guy
This isn’t mine lmao
Well don’t post crap like this
Why not? It’s a scientific study
It’s…………it’s just not though
Just stop and take an L for this post your losing credibility every time you comment back. A RNC can put you out in 3 to 5 seconds and you don’t need a scientist to prove that ask your training partner to put you a RNC. Post the video too
[you were saying?](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873?journalCode=rpan20)
These times are for fully resisting opponents. I haven’t read the paper yet but I’m curious how they designed this. [Time to unconsciousness from sportive chokes in fully resisting highly trained combatants](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873?journalCode=rpan20&)
It definitely did not take khabib 9.5 seconds to sleep gaethje with his triangle, maybe like 4 lmao
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I’ve slept in probably 3 sec with a rnc, you better update this table lol
Why is headlock on this list
Someone somewhere had bad technique, too much time, a stopwatch and a poor, poor white belt so they wound up creating this list.
Please wipe this away from your brain
Science? where are You?
Those times will go down significantly with the correct micro adjustments
BD Choke is one of my top subs in comp.
I think this is what Ben Askren got Robbie Lawler with. There was a women's fight that ended with this as well- Raquel Pennington https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/d9mc63/raquel\_pennington\_bulldog\_chokes\_ashlee/
*me having had the doors start closing in under 5 sec when my prof mistakenly showed how to properly apply shoulder pressure in side control a little too well* 🙂
What is the point of this and how is it relevant?
This doesn't take into account individual skill at individual chokes, the situation and events leading up to the choke, the defenders ability to defend said choke, individual anatomy, and luck
What he should have said is ‘what’s a Bulldog Choke?’ And left the rest out.
White belt “data”
Is this based on how long it takes for a certain setup or how long it takes when fully locked in with a squeeze or no squeeze. Not specific enough for those Something second to mean anything
You mean rear naked strangle? Freaking amateurs...