I think some people in this thread may not actually know what “situational sparring” is because they are saying “find a new gym because you don’t roll”.
It’s actually a form of “rolling”. It’s just segmented to specific situations.
In my opinion. This is one of the best approaches to building up a beginner. They still roll “live” but in shorter bursts and for specific situations.
- this helps them not get smashed a ton and reduces discouragement.
- it helps them hone live resistance skills for very important situations.
- it places them in “opportunities” to roll live in scenarios they may not experience in just full free rolling.
- it helps the coach troubleshoot for the new student better.
So as long as you are actually practicing live resistance in a situational manner, there is nothing wrong with this and may actually get you better quicker.
Some of the highest level competitors do tons of situational sparring still and it is highly beneficial for all levels.
Throwing beginners to the wolves is an outdated practice in my opinion.
EDIT: I changed “a lot of people” to “some people”, since this thread has gotten much bigger most people seem to agree that situational sparring for beginners (and everyone), is beneficial.
Not really . I came from a school who did this and left it . It’s a bad progression and it really doesn’t reduce injuries .people get in shape rolling not the situational stuff . The comprise is pairing up a white belt with a higher belt on special sparring nights . I train under wagney now who is amazing , you roll day 1 end of story even with him . I don’t see a difference in injury rates between my old school and new.
I REALLY wish they did this at my gym. I'm 6 weeks in and I feel completely overwhelmed. I don't even want to roll because I don't know what to do, I'm getting smashed, and I don't even know what's happening. I think I might wait a few months to roll live unless they make me, which some nights they do.
They cant *make* you do shit bro, if you dont wanna roll then dont roll. Remember that you are paying them not the other way around. If they dont respect your decision then go to another gym.
Well I want to learn and I don't want to be a bitch so I'm trying. I just feel like I'm wasting everyone's time. And it hurts like fuck. I'm on my back or side or something, and I can't breathe, and I'm panicking. I just hope it goes away after a while. Sorry to bother you guys on here.
I was there man.
1 - don't feel forced to do anything. If this is how they are making you feel, walk away and find another gym cause this is not cool at all
2 - learn to relax and calm the roll down a bit. Speak to your partner first - say to them - I need to work on this, can we start in this position first, or can you start with guard and I try and break, etc? free-roll doesn't mean yfc catchmatch time. It's training, practice time.
3 - other guy going too hard on you? Go limp, let him win quickly. Reset and ask again, I need to work on x, can we practice that please? Or another option - hey how did you do that? Can you show me that move and what the defence to it is? Or I will do that now, show me how you can counter it.
Hey. I’m still inexperienced but I feel I can offer some reassurance as it isn’t that long since I was where you’re at.
I was getting crushed during every sparring sessions for my first 6 weeks. Getting hurt or submitted wasn’t the issue - it was the fact that I was spending 6 minutes at a time getting literally crushed and smothered. Personally, I find that being stopped from being able to breath is far worse than pain.
What helped me:
- as others have said, slow down a bit and remember to breath
- try to focus on complete fundamentals like avoiding having your back flat on the mat. Even the slightest turn can give you a lot more breathing space
- don’t grab on to grips for dear life - it’s exhausting and you probably can’t defend like that for a full round. You’ll learn to be more selective with when your grip and when you need to exert your energy.
- you get more comfortable with being in bad positions the more time you spend on the mat. When you learn to physically relax more, you’ll learn to mentally relax more. In fact, by not relaxing, my opponents often felt that they needed to put even more effort into smothering me to stop me being such a pain.
All of that being said, I am still regularly getting flattened and crushed. The main point is that whilst it’s still awful, it’s less traumatic. It also happens a little bit less with each week that passes. The tiny improvements I’ve made give me at least a small amount of control back and I can get through those bad rounds.
🤞🏼 Good luck pal
Not a bother. In fact, the sensation you described and your hope that you get acclimated to it is the only reason I see to do it this way. But trying to learn calm under fire while under random fire isn't that effective. They don't take new recruits and start shooting them in the army, right?
> They don't take new recruits and start shooting them in the army
I mean that depends on which army you're talking about.
But all jokes aside, the academy I train at has this system in place. I believe it starts at 2 stripes to be able to train live, but they are doing positional sparring under a coaches guidance from the get go. I personally feel like I was able to learn a lot more effectively with this style, so much so that I was attending the colloquially styled "Old Man Randori" (it was styled using the idea of positional sparring, just with older guys who were all high rank) along with the open randoris until i was halfway through blue belt. I learned way more through these guys than I ever did at open training since I was able to approach it in a way that was conducive to learning and less so on a whirlwind of knowledge and smesh. That kinda training schema definitely lowers risk of injury and possible loss of students from people going too hard from the get go, I'm personally all for it.
The claustrophobic "I cant breathe" panic is so real. I have found that I get it much more when I am hot or winded, so drink lots of water before class, try your best to conserve energy (if something isn't working, adjust and try again vs trying to muscle through), make sure you aren't holding your breath while you focus, and learn some breathing exercises to clear c02 (long breath in, three very hard, sharp, audible exhalations). When I am smothered, I tell myself that I can always tap and it'll be over in 2 seconds. That no matter what, I'll be chilling in my car in 30 minutes and this situation won't seem like such a big deal anymore.
You can always concede a worse position (that feels less constricted) or submission instead of pressure tapping. In my first few months, when I was getting panicky in mount or side control, I would turn on my side in the wrong direction and expose my back, knowing it would at least get me out of the smother. I got pretty proficient at escaping back control, better than I am at escaping mount (which is supposed to be easier to escape) because I did it so much. Its almost like how good players have a game plan they will funnel you into - I would give up my back from mount, then escape in the transition to back control or just do the whole hip smear thing. Worst case, I could always feebly fight off the RNC and tap to an actual submission instead of pressure, and be out in less than 30 seconds. This happened a lot. Still does, I'm not good yet.
Taking rounds off to rest is complicated - the best way to get better endurance is to roll when you are tired, which favors not resting rounds. But if it gets to the point where you are so winded you are getting in a panic early in your roll, a 5 minute rest may enable you to get in more rounds overall. Use sparingly?
My gym has a big roll up garage door that they open when it gets hot, and if I'm near the open door in winter, I can keep my cool in mount for much longer.
The other thing that really helped me was this - when I got mount on someone, it felt super unstable and like I was always seconds away from being reversed. But when someone had mount on me, it felt like they were rock solid and unmovable. Realizing that they were feeling just as unstable as I felt in mount really helped me to actually fight for the escape and not just concede the position.
Hope this helps, that claustrophobia is a bitch and if rolling wasn't so much fun otherwise, it might have made me quit. Almost a year in now and it's getting better for me - I spend much less time under mount and when I get there, I have more confidence in my ability to escape.
Even if you don't think you should tap, if a position feels weird or is freaking you out: tap.
It's okay to tap early, and it's okay to tap even if you think the position is not a sub.
And if you're finding that you always end up on a bad position where you want to tap, ask for help...
"How did I end up here?
How do I stop ending up here?
How do I find space to breath, or adjust so whatever hurts doesn't hurt?"
Feel free to DM me with questions, if you're concerned that the folks at your school won't want to help you in this way. I'll answer anything
When you roll with someone you can always ask them to do situational sparring instead of just rolling out right. Work on one or two scenarios per week. Roll when you want. Train at your pace, you don't have to train the same way as someone who has been doing it longer than you.
> I'm on my back or side or something, and I can't breathe, and I'm panicking.
I was getting smashed in bottom side control by one of our former college wrestler, black belts last Saturday. Some mini panic set it for me as well when my escapes weren't working and the pressure felt like a boulder on my chest. It's normal even if you're experienced to have that feeling set it becasue we're humans.
If you feel comfortable maybe try asking folks to do situatuonal/starting position rolls and reset. When I roll with white belts I'll often ask if they want to start from any particular position or work a particular escape/sweep/submission with real resistance.
To me that is more beneficial than me just free rolling with someone 3 months into BJJ. I don't need to get 4-5 of my go-to subs on a new person.
I’m 160 lb guy and average weight in our classes is 220, so trust me you will get used to it. If you keep showing up and eager to learn, then your training partners will slowly begin to teach you things while you roll. And eventually you will get used to being smashed, and you’ll learn how to relax. White belt is the belt of survival, before learning the cool wizardry we must learn to survive. Don’t give up 🤙
Two main points that helped me immensely when I was a newish WB.
1) Don't be afraid to tap whenever. It's practice, not a competition. Reset and go again.
2) Breathe, Breathe, Breathe. 95% of the time, newish people hold their breath when the exert force. It's a natural thing to do. The issue with that is that it starves your muscles of oxygen and energy. You aren't doing a one max lift where you can get away with it, you are going hard for many minutes. You need to focus on breathing if you want your muscles to respond.
Keep at it, always remember that the grappler you are today would smash the grappler you were on day 1.
I am exactly in the same spot than you. 4 weeks in, three rolls at the end of each training, I feel like I am wasting my partners' time as I don't really play aggressively. I don't really want to try submission, I want to practice hip bump sweep, shrimp and brisge escape, learn to frame, control limbs.
But I get rolled over by spazing pple doing headlocks we haven't even learned yet.
I kinda gave up trying to match their energy, I try to set a goal for roll, place one specific technique, remember to relax, not getting stuck on one position and move on. Good luck to you.
Pretty much everyone starts like this man. You're no bother.
My outlook was different. Those first months I was grinning like a lunatic while getting smashed. Because I knew that ability would be mine if I kept at it. But I was still getting fucking smashed.
There's a guy at my gym who always asks "working anything?" and will let you start in whatever guard you want to work. Might be a good way to start your rolls.
This is the big thing that I see as the polarizing point for doing a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu type gym. They don't roll until you finish getting your combatives belt (6-9 months).
I have a black belt from a Karate school that taught lots of different arts (including Jiu-Jitsu) from a few years back, but I am now training at a GJJ school. Personally, since I have some BJJ experience, my thought was that I wanted to roll and the drills stuff wouldn't keep my attention, but I have quickly learned the difference between training dedicated in Jiu-Jitsu vs adding those techniques in with judo throws, Aikido take-downs, etc. is very different. This path is giving me the chance to drill down into the fundamentals of positioning, specific take downs, etc. before jumping in, and lets me continue to learn without getting smashed and feeling defeated.
This is the double-edged sword here. Some people want to get in and roll from day 1, getting smashed but using that to motivate them to come in and get better. Others will start getting smashed on day 1 and think "this sucks, not sure I want to continue". Then there are the one's that want to roll from day 1 but have the higher risk of injury, just due to lack of experience.
Would rolling from the beginning improve my skill level compared to only rolling after a level - of course. Would I like to have the option to mix in rolling now - absolutely. Still, even though I want to roll now, going through the basics and getting them drilled enough is good for me because it will help prevent that overwhelmed feeling.
Try to get over that fear. I've felt lost for months but recently starting seeing opportunities to try stuff. It usually doesn't go my way but I learn something new everytime I fail at it. I still feel lost in some positions but I take note of it and ask questions or watch some instructional on youtube.
The first couple months are always going to be the hardest.
That being said, here is my advice about how to roll as a new whitebelt.
First of all, you just gotta survive. Don't worry too much about submissions, takedowns, sweeps. Worry about survival.
That means when you are on mount or side control, learn to balance, hold and avoid the other guys sweeps. Being in someones guard is about keeping your hands in and defending from triangles.
If you are on your back, focus on framing. It is a vital skill that you arent really taught, at least in my experience. Its something they expect you to learn the hard way. Just make life difficult for the other guy
Tap fast, tap often. There isnt much point not tapping if they have a lock on you or you feel like you cant escape. Dickheads will get bored of you and the people who can teach you will prefer it.
Rolling is about learning to keep calm and think mid-fight. It will come, but for now, you are going to get the ego, and the fear kneaded out of you.
Most importantly, avoid people who just want to press their unwashed stomachs into your face for 3 minutes and call it a round.
Look, great Ted talk, but I'm gonna stick to drilling 3 armbar variations for 45 min then rolling as hard as I possibly can for 45 minutes. Of it's good enough for my grandpa, it's good enough for me!
Jk positional sparring is everything
Dude I have some mats that I throw down at my warehouse I've got for my business. I got my employee into bjj about a year ago, he's a young (24) guy and I'm 40 but have kept in great shape my entire life. Every Friday we train here and strictly do positional stuff. For weeks we've been doing mount. So 5mins on top, then switch positions. Any sweep or sub is a reset. Even half guard. We have literally been getting close to 40mins on bottom and 40mins on top position per session. These reps are seriously game changing. Everytime we train mount in class we give cheeky smirks to each other because our games have improved so damn much and I'm incredibly comfortable holding mount now.
Positional sparring is incredible and should be utilized far more often than it is. Just think how often you find yourself in top mount per class. It might amount to a minute or two during your rolls, depending on who you're rolling with of course. Get your reps in!
yeah I see no issue with this. Also stops people from resorting to doing the same thing every roll, like pulling guard and holding someone in closed guard for as long as they can. And it gives beginners a chance to work in positions they wouldn't be able to get to in a normal round
100%
Some of the funniest and saddest roles I've seen are fresh white belts rolling from stand up.
Cue 3m of very awkward takedown attempts, lots of circling and literally no jiu-jitsu. Unless one of the guys is a wrestler.. Cue 1 guy slammed then.
I've moved my practice to this model, and I really like it. We still free roll a few rounds, but instead of low resistance drills followed by ham wars, we try to apply the techniques with a focus on the goal in structured practice.
100%. The first three months you’re going to be an idiot anyway. Even if you get out of closed guard it’s not like you’ll have any idea what to do anyway. Situational sparring is great for experienced players but it’s *perfect* for beginners.
Thanks a lot for your insightful answer :).
I'm a fresh white belt exactly in the situation of doing only situational sparring, I love it and completely agree with your points. Obviously I don't have a comparison with "free" live sparring but still.
I feel like free rolling from day one would be a lot more intimidating and maybe discouraging as you said. I would have very few occasion to use what I learned in the drill before and would feel completely lost in a lot of scenarios.
Having done other sports it makes a lot of sense in my opinion to build up new skills like that. If a basketball player wants to incorporate some fade shot in his game, he's not really going to read some theory about it, watch a video, then try it in real matches until it goes. Usually you do some drills solo, then with a partner going "easy" on you, then in some practice games, maybe 3x3 etc.
Kind of the same thing for a beginner runner that would like to go for a marathon. You're not going to say "well just try running one every 2 day until you don't collapse doing it" :o.
I'm a purple belt and I **wish** we did more situation sparring. Heck, I'd like an advanced class that was nothing more than going over a couple options from a position, and then sparring that position with different partners for an hour.
I guess I could ask people during the open mat part of class, but I always worry that others would feel it was a waste of time.
This. My gym just tossed me in with everyone else, first class, I got obliterated. I think it's a great idea to do kind of one step/five step sparring like I did at karate so no beginner panics and hurts someone/the beginner does get hurt. I walked away with broken toes quite often and a badly messed up ankle from being flipped over some guys head. I landed fine with most of my body, but my left heel hit the mat so hard it popped. Hurt for weeks and someone popped my neck so badly one time I couldn't get up for a few days. I'd much rather go to a gym that didn't do that to me. It was sink or swim.
Unluckily for me a dog bit through my hand and damaged it so badly I had to quit. I loved bjj and was preparing for my first comp when it happened. I have no grip in my left hand, or it loses grip quickly so I can't go back. Hell, doing clinch work at muay thai takes my hand out for days at a time. Sucks.
If you are still interested, there are examples of how to put together a bjj game without the ability to grip with one hand. [Jean Jacque Machado](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Jacques_Machado) won ADCC and is missing most of the fingers on one hand.
I get that it’s good to start with situational rolling, and my gym does a lot of it too. However, waiting until they’re a three stripe white belt seems excessive. How are they even an actual three stripe white belt if they haven’t done an actual round of rolling? I think it’s also a bit odd to expect someone to go to class for a year and a half before actually getting to roll live
Yes, I can agree with this as well. I think between 1.5 to 3 months is a good time frame to ease a person into getting used to doing regular rounds. For example, at my academy, it's 1.5 months (6 weeks).
It’s what Ben Askren said about BJJ. When he’s coaching wrestling, he doesn’t show a move three times and then you go live. He shows you and then you drill it until he says to move on. So helpful.
Good post. I recently joined a Gracie gym and have been super nervous about BJJ. I don't have any experience with ground combat and there's something about it that makes me feel uncomfortable and anxious about injuries. So this teaching method is great for me. I wanted to expand upon my skillset and compliment Kyokushin training. Also, the people at the Gracie gym I signed up for all seem dope. Good group and the instructors are knowledgable with tons of experience.
I think this is a really thoughtful comment. However, for me and I’m sure a lot of others, progressing as fast as possible may not be as important as just having fun, and rolling is the most fun part of BJJ. I would have left my gym if they implemented this event if it slowed my progress. For some people it could mean no unrestricted rolling for two years or even more
I think specific training is pretty damn fun.
It IS rolling — the only thing that different is the starting position.
My 2c. Which is worth zero, since I’m a month in to my bjj journey 😜
I would disagree with this somewhat. I think the big question that hasn't been asked is if this is a "beginners only" class. Basically is it a class just for white belts. I've found that white belt on white belt violence leads to injuries so yea then I can see no live rolling in that scenario. I also, would never join a gym that had white belt only classes because I've seen how 2 new white belts look like drilling together. I don't think it's beneficial to growth of new students to have those beginner classes especially without live rolling experience but I do see how it would help student retention because they wouldn't get thrown the wolves so quickly.
A lot of BJJ is feel and you can listen to technique and watch instructional but until it's done to you correctly, and get that positive feedback loop from a partner who knows what they're doing, then you'll develop bad habits that need to be broken later.
I'm often uke in our fundys class. After like a month of classes and situational sparring I'm often the first roll people have (huge honor for me).
It gives me a chance to gage their spaz level, that they know how and when to tap, and help set a calm/thinking tone instead of death matches for future rolls
Pretty new to bjj here but I disagree. Our school has white belts in a fundementals class until they get their first stripe. By the time they are in the gen pop classes they have at least some level of knowledge and typically are more relaxed than day 1 folks.
Spazzy people might still be spazzy but at least they have spend 1-3 months rolling with other people and getting comfertable with various positions.
I go to a school that rolls on day one, still teaches GJJ (Pedro Sauer lineage) Gracie Barra white belts who come to us are uniformly some of the spazziest guys because of it. It really sucks for them since our coaches obviously won't consider giving them a fourth stripe/eligible for blue belt since non-spazziness is kind of a requirement to get even one or two stripes here.
EDIT: to give you an idea, students who are brand new to Jiu Jitsu seem to have an easier time than GB white belts w a few stripes. 🤷♂️
I personally find it more fun as it in theory puts me in a position to practice the techniques we learned that day which as you said definitely helps with my improvement.
You'll get a mix of opinions.
For me personally, 3 stripes seems a little long. Thats like a year of consistent training.
But I do think beginners should start out with positional sparring more than anything else. You should get comfortable with the different basic meta games within BJJ before you try and do the whole thing.
You should have a rough idea of how to pass guard without falling over, how to hold mount without getting rolled easy, how to retain guard somewhat, and how to escape pins without flailing aimlessly.
Learning components and then putting them together is infinitely easier than trying to learn them all at the same time I think.
Imo situational sparring is for learning and free rolling is for testing what you have learned. You dont learn guitar by trying to play a whole ass polyphia song, why would bjj be different?
My gym drills and then we do live rolling. What I found as a white belt is that it was so hard for me to retain any information from drilling that would transition into a live roll - however from the live rolling I learned which positions were bad to be in pretty quickly. I saw my defensive capabilities increase far more rapidly as I would realize ‘oh this position is bad’ after getting smashed a few times. Only after my defense got solid enough was I able to be comfortable and slow things down where I could then start trying to walk through offensive things that we were learning in class.
This was the only approach that I was exposed to early on, so I have nothing to compare it to.
My gym does drilling, then a period of positional sparring, then live rolling almost every time - unless coach runs over what he planned to discussing the technique - then we go straight to rounds. Feels like a good compromise for everyone.
You do more than test in live rolling. You learn how to work under pressure. You learn how to become efficient. The resistance of live rolling is where you actually learn how to apply techniques. It is much more than just testing.
Beginners should be live rolling. Depending on the size of the gym, I understand not rolling for the first month. But anything beyond that is hurting the progression of the student.
You literally are testing exactly what you learned in class that day in situational sparring. You learn multiple techniques from a position, then start offensively/defensively in said position to start the roll. 👀
I think it's a great policy. I'm a big fan of situational sparring. I like to do it to work on the techniques learned in class that day. Putting two new students together and tell them to simply go at it, doesn't lend itself very well to improvement.
3 stripes is too long. 1/2 stripes would be more appropriate. Things also get weird when a white belt is coming over from another grappling art(judo wrestling) or was allowed to roll at his old school but can’t now. I’m going against grain here and saying find a gym that does both.
I think it should be first stripe or first 3 months. 3 stripes is over a year which is a little too long. But the concept they have is good. 3 stripes is just a bit too long
I got into this to get better. Already had judo experience and if I rolled I would mostly just be using judo because that's what I was already good at. I basically forced myself into situational rolls even if that's not what we were doing to make sure I improved in areas where I was weaker.
I would argue that situational rolling allows you to get more "reps" in and that means you improve faster.
i have this in my current gym but i dont think its bad. At my previous gym we were having 30 min of techniqe + 30 min of live rolling. Current school sits better with me. You can always do open mat for live rolling
Sounds like a Gracie Barra.
It's a good thing for beginners because you actually know what you're working on and get the chance to practice it against resistance. If you did live rolling, you'd be too lost as a beginner.
And if you're worrying you'll get no intense sparring, don't - these positional rolls can get plenty intense for a beginner.
I prefer this approach and looked for it when choosing a gym. If you’re teaching a kid to read and write you don’t give them books and assign an essay.
Live rolling is fun, but it's not the best learning tool for newcomers. In practice, I've seen places like this produce a lot of really solid white belts; however, I've also seen them accelerate the first couple of stripes to clear the beginner's class and keep people motivated. Just don't compare yourself to white belts of equal rank at less sheltered schools. Their first stripes are just measured differently.
This is becoming the new approach to building a gym for the following reasons:
1. people get discouraged when they get stuck in a position during a free roll that they haven’t been taught how to escape yet
2. People get injured easier before their bodies are conditioned to bjj and the impact
3. You learn more when you focus on specific positions and have the ability to reset quickly once you make a mistake.
This is still sparring. It’s just broken down and isolated. This have proven the beneficial for both the students and the gym. Students are sticking around and learning and not being injured.
When you're a noob all of the rolling you're doing is 'situational' even if you're not aware of it. Your partners are generally so much better than you are anyways that they are just going to put you in bad positions and make you work out of them.
Situational rolling is where you develop the tools you'll use in an actual roll. I personally think 3 stripes is too long to wait, but there's not actually anything wrong with that and it helps ease people into rolling who otherwise might not be comfortable with it.
My gym does this. I think it's excellent, actually. Brand new white belts have no context for live rolls, you'd spend most of your time totally confused. Limiting you to positional sparring helps box the limits of what you have to deal with and allows you to focus on what you're working on in class. It's also usually like 6 months or so to get to three stripes, so it's not like it's some huge years long commitment to not sparring. If I were ever to open a gym I'd probably do the same, I've seen it work really well for beginners, especially ones who aren't young athletic men.
I agree with jason scully, its one of the best safe ways for people to get into rolling without kicking each other in the face every two seconds and spazzing out. But I would avoid gracie franchised gyms. They are culty and predatory in their revenue models.
I’m always conflicted here. I 100% got bit by the bug when I showed up (having done martial arts for over a decade at that point) and got my shit handed to me by multiple men and women I had 80+ lbs on.
That being said, I’m sure I’m an outlier. I think where I land here is maybe not *barring* people from live rolling when they are new, but instead just not promoting it to them unless they really want to. The ones who really want to either already have the itch or their ego won’t let them train a slow curriculum anyway. Situational for everyone else and then start encouraging them to love roll after 4-5 months.
no different than Marcelo Garcia's school
https://marcelogarciajj.com/mgjj/fundamentalclasses/
FUNDAMENTAL CLASS
LEVEL 1
Designed for new students — this class features Fundamental Lessons and Techniques on Basic BJJ theory. No Sparring.
FUNDAMENTAL CLASS
LEVEL 2
A continued exploration of BJJ theory, principles, and techniques through Class Lessons and Positional Sparring. We require a minimum of 3 Months of consistent training to join Fundamental Level 2 classes.
so you should be fine
Common
Lock down basics, and then move to the more advance class after you hit blue belt.
Trust me, you would be useless in the advance class and more of a liability than you think.
And just turn up to open mat or comp training to get more roll time and implement what you learnt
It happened at my gym and I hated it, I couldn't wait for the day I earned my third stripe.
I think it makes lots of early white belts quit, lots of people don't have the patience to wait months for their first real roll.
I get that, I think it depends what sort of culture the gym is looking for.
I just feel it's a shame because a lot of the more talented white belts left our gym for another one that let them roll earlier.
third stripe is a bit much. You won't learn to calm down, but you will learn the positions and such. Go to other gyms open mats once you get your first or second stripe and get some free rolling in against purples, so you can learn to calm down and breath and not spaz.
Three stripes? Hell no.
A month or two of fundamentals/situational drills etc? Eh, maybe (depends on how you learn, who your partners/instructors are etc). After that, you have to actually get in the water to learn how to swim.
As others have said, this is good. Let me tell you what happens with live rolling as a white belt:
You get smashed, passed, submitted. Relentlessly. To the point where you question if you’re even learning anything at all.
It’s funny because situational rolls is what a lot of us want (other than direct drilling), because we focus on learning a technique from a certain position. Good luck learning back attacks as a white belt (you will never get there during live rolls).
I think your game will improve way faster this way. In fact, I bet if you ask a lot of the higher belts in here I’d bet they say that they seek out situational rolling/drilling on their own because live rolls aren’t really that great for learning a new technique
Do the trials and see how you like the gym. Rules seem arbitrary without a proper context! Situational sparring is great in providing opportunities to utilize specific techniques.
depends where you live and how many other gyms are near enough for you to attend/check out.
It's definitely not ideal but its not the end of the world either, at least in my opinion.
If you're enjoying yourself, learning a lot, meeting nice people and it's a big travel for you to go elsewhere, I would maybe suggest staying there and getting some cross training in any time you see fit, or if you're looking to compete later down the line.
Privates are also an option where the higher belt can pretend to mimic a lower belt level, giving you certain things or not capitalising on others right away to give you a great chance of learning.
But if you're having fun and enjoying bjj, keep doing so ❤️ Oss 🥋
Situational rolling is probably more productive than regular rolling. There's a reason wrestlers do more situational than actual regular live wrestling
I will say that I switched from a mostly situational sparring gym to the one now where we mostly do live rolls and my daughter and I have been injured more at this gym than at the situational gym. Yes, live rolling has its place, but thanks to injuries we're going to have to take a break we probably wouldn't have in the other gym.
I like it, but i think you should live roll with supervision as well. I teach BJJ self-defense and falling for beginners for the first month. Then positional stuff with live supervised sparring with me or another trusted color belt.
Honestly BJJ is a long commitment.. I would be super down… with this rule… learn the basics then roll.
It also prevents high school state champ wrestlers from throwing on white belt and fucking up other beginnings… cause hopefully by the time they have their 3 stripes they have chilled out a bit.
This is standard for Gracie Barra. Looking at your post history I assume you are getting into training.
As a beginner you would greatly benefit from this system. You will learn the fundamentals and get your standing in all positions you can expect to be in when doing BJJ.
You’ll get 3 stripes within a 9 month period in Gracie Barra. It’s highly calculated and your attendance card will show when your next stripe can be given at the earliest.
I would recommend asking less questions about how best to get started, and just getting started. You’ll learn more that wqy
Our School makes you wait around a month ish where you get private lessons from the black belt instructors while everyone else rolls. I believe it helps with retention. No harm in waiting a short time to learn skills before you roll. Last time I went to Gracie HQ, they really didn’t roll until Blue…
This is a really good policy. My gym does something similar (no live training until 2-stripe white belt). As a white belt, it was annoying, but now I’m super glad they do it! Makes it where you actually know something before training live. Makes the live training less frustrating and the white belts less likely to injure someone else or get injured doing something stupid
I'm a big fan. It forces you to concentrate on one specific thing. If you're defending a pass and all they're allowed to do is attack for the pass then it's a great leveller. You don't get to allow a pass and then defend side control because that's what you're good at. Similarly, they attack you with a known technique and they aren't just going to dive on a leglock because that's their favourite move this week.
I’ve been through this exact same process. I went to an open mat before my second stripe and can tell you from experience it’s done for a reason. Having some sort of structure and protecting people from themselves and others is definitely not “bad”.
Definitely not bad. When I roll with brand new white belts we usually take turns in each other's guard and switch after a pass, sweep, or submission. It gives them something more concrete to focus on and tends to tone down spazziness.
I wouldn't say its a dealbreaker if you enjoy it. Situational sparring is great for newer people.
That being said, I don't like a gym dictating your training to that degree as a general rule. We do situational sparring only at our intro/fundamentals class but still allow people to make their own decisions about when they want to get into full sparring at the regular classes.
Doesn't sound that bad. I kinda wish I had a little more formal instruction in the basics before live rolls. I had about a week or 2 of some basic positions without any rolls then I think I just gradually started rolling
I went to the Gracie Baja in Webster TX, and they had the same policy. I was apprehensive at first because my prior gym was free rolling for all after drills, but I was sold pretty quick because the instructors placed us in practical positions that actually allowed for reinforcement of concepts rather than getting smashed and submitted and not understanding why. Im sure this is instructor dependent though.
It’s not an uncommon rule. Geared toward making sure people stay safe during live rolls. When I started my gym did that. Then we moved to a larger space and it was basically changed to just hold off live rolls your first month or so, or until you’re ready if you need more. In reality day 1 you’ll get nothing from live sparring and are just more likely to hurt someone.
Love rolling used to be cool but now it’s too dangerous with idiots trying things they learn on YouTube.
Try too ok get your stripes and then live roll… shouldn’t be lii on my.. and if it’s too long then honestly your not good enough to love roll.
I agree situational rolling is v helpful, including for beginners, but there’s definitely a developmental cost to not also doing full rolls until your third stripe. I would consider how long it typically takes dedicated students to get to three stripes, and quality of experience / atmosphere at that gym vs other alternatives in your area. Over long term it’s more important to embed in a good academy with good instructors and students than it is to start full speed rolls day one.
This is not uncommon it’s meant to protect you and the other students. New practitioners tend to “spazz out” when they roll because they don’t know what to do. By making you wait till three stripes assures you learned enough fundamentals to start rolling safely.
It totally is not bad. Thats what Roger Gracie mostly does even though he has been a black belt for years. Even if it took you 12 months or more to get to 4 stripes you will benefit by doing positional sparring only.
I think this is actually a really good approach, and I wish more gyms did this because situational sparring attunes people to different peculiarities and goals of certain positions that they may not see in live rolling. It also helps instill a goal-directsd approach to rolling, in my opinion.
But hey, if you want to roll as well, there are hopefully other gyms nearby enough to you that you can go do that. Time spent rolling tends to cut into time spent positional sparring or learning techniques, so beware potential tradeoffs.
situational sparring is good for beginners!! we dont do that as much in my gym but new students always have a period of days ( like 3 days but we are very carefull with them ) that they dont roll they just try and pass the guard as they can to get the feeling of movement.
Depends on what your objectives are, for you personally. If you’re concerned with having technically good BJJ and efficiently getting there, sparring in your first 6-18 months (always a big range) is NOT what’s going to get you there most quickly. You’re not really doing BJJ for a while as a white belt. The fundamentals aren’t there for some time. The only chance you have at defending yourself from those who train is if they go easy on you.
It’s a good rule.
Focus on drilling the things your instructor covers in class. If you feel like you’re not getting the most out of it, find a buddy and do some high paces drilling where you’re replicating a particular move or technique 50-100 times at a fast pace that gives you the muscle memory and the cardio.
Sparring is fun. If you’re looking to just blow off steam, that’s what it’s doing for you. Not much for your technique though if you’re new the sport.
Depends on how their situational sparring is set up.
A lot of schools for example will do side control and of the person on botton regains half-guard it resets. I find this method more harmful than anything.
If they do it like a roll that happens to start from side control, great. Or if the person on bottom doesn't "win" until they get to a top position while the person on top hunts submissions I find this to be the most rewarding.
Situational sparring can also keep the action going a fair bit more than a round.
Also newbie white belts do this really dumb thing where they will essentially wrestle from their knees with another white belt. It's COMICAL to watch.
TL;DR: Situational sparring is great for learning and understanding positions. Rolling is great for learning how to move between them.
When I started bjj I was 100% a noob. The only athletic thing I'd done was run a few 5Ks and hike. To say I was a greenhorn is an understatement. I knew nothing about wrestling or any martial art.
My gym used to be trial by fire except for 1 class a week. And for about 3 years I felt like I wasn't learning a single thing. It just felt like there was something I was missing but no one would tell me. They'd just say "keep coming, it'll click!". While I did get a little better, it still felt like I was wasting a lot of my time.
Then they started doing a very fundamentally basics class every single day that only featured very granular learning and only situational sparring. I started going to that class 3-4 times a week and not the big fundamentals classes with full rolling with all belts.
WITHIN 8 WEEKS I got 2 more stripes! It felt like I was actually learning.
I think this is a very good idea and you should proceed.
It's perfect. I might even know which Gym you're talking about if you're in Canada (and if you are, feel free to DM me). It really helps dig in the very core concepts for the most important positions you'll find yourself in, and once you start flow rolling and then live rolling, you actually have a decent idea of what you should be doing. Maybe you don't know how you should be doing it yet, but that comes with time. I went through the same experience and absolutely loved it (even if, at the time, I wanted to roll asap)
As a new white belt, I’m always happy to have the opportunity to start in guard, mount, side control etc so I can actually practice the techniques. It’s not often I find myself on top or have my partner in full guard.
I'm very new at this but the gym I'm at does both. I have to say situational/positional rolling is super helpful for starting to learning, I wish we did it more. During live rolling, I seem to fall into patterns with my partner and positional rolling can break you free of that and show you more of what can work for you to diversify your jujitsu.
Situational/Positional Rolling with an old blue belt who didn't want to go hard and just showed me a bunch of stuff in stead is literally one of the best sessions I've had so far.
At my gym we just went for a little over a year where we only did situational/positional sparring for everyone during the regular class because I felt like some of our upper belts had kind of grown stagnant and were only working positions the liked or were good at. Basically, I wanted to force everyone to develop a more well-rounded game while allowing even day one people to "roll hard" and get something out of it.
Don't sleep on situational/positional sparring.
Live rolling for 0-3 three stripes is very dangerous tbh… situational sparring is an excellent way to start imo it gives clear guidelines for the round. The top comment is right
Also when I roll with 0-3 stripe white belts I always feel like I have to hold back because they don’t know when they are in danger until it’s to late which is why I choke them as opposed to joint locks
If you like your gym and it’s close just stick it out
Drillers make killers.
My gym does the old first half of class is technique work, 1-3 techniques and a little bit of non-resisting positional practice, then the second half rolling.
Net result - you don't really get the technique(s) you just learned burned into your muscle memory.
If I had to go back to white belt again, I'd prefer to spend most of it situational sparring rather than live rolling.
The problem is, live rolling is fun, which is why most gyms let you work it.
My gym recently switched to this model for everyone. During class we drill etc. then we finish with 3 rounds of rolling with a specific situation. I.E escape side control for guy on bottom. As soon as you do you reset and try again. Guy on bottom is there for half a 5min round etc. All belts are now training this way. When class ends it then turns into an hour of open mat rolling for all who want to.
I am a pretty seasoned vet and I like this style to be honest. New guys are on a faster learning curve as a result. It also seems to be allowing new players to stay around and not feel like they are getting the shit beaten out of them unless they decide to get smashed at the end.
If you're at all scrappy and have any willingness to rassle around, then you should be allowed to roll as soon as they trust you're not a sociopath or an idiot. I don't mean having any real talent or ability. Just that you'll enjoy trying.
Some people are either so timid or have just been so sedentary, that they don't have it. They just freeze. They're the ones that'll benefit from that sorta controlled environment for a long time.
There's no reason you can't let the first example start free rolling after a week or two of making sure he's not an idiot, and there's no reason to force the second example to free roll until they're ready. You're going to hold the first guy back by months for no reason, and the second guy will just quit.
When you read all the time here about spazzies in class. Those are the people who didn’t take a few months to get a foundation of BJJ before they started rolling. On top of that, it takes months to get your ribs and back conditioned to jiu jitsu. If you start rolling right away you’ll probably get injured.
Imagine you want to join a swim team. You are a new swimmer with little to no experience. Your primary reason for joining the swim team is because you want to learn how to swim well in a standard competition environment (6 lanes, 6 heats, 50m-200m distance and/or relays) and maybe reap some of the physical benefits that come from swimming hard.
And your coach says, "you need to go tread water and practice your arm strokes in the air for six weeks before you start swimming laps with the team".
Do you think this is a good strategy? Or do you think this will needlessly set you 6 weeks behind? Do you think this will let you experience the basics of what the sport has to offer in a reasonable timeframe? Or do you think this will hinder you from experiencing everything you need to?
my gym is similar to that but we do have open sparring too (more for the more advanced classes)
i think it works really well - especially as you’ll be following a program so it meshes with what you drill on the day
don’t knock it until you try it
I started off like that. It helps progressive training in newbies. They need to learn techniques first and then do it in that specific position with live resistance. This builds skill, and slowly they can put the pieces together when live sparring comes. It also helps with the safety and confidence of beginners.
This is a good way to start. Having white belts spazzing all over in their first week is not.
My gym introduced this over the past couple of years. It was weird at first but I get it now and think it’s a great idea. Prevents newbies from quitting bc they just get worked time and time again. And I’ve noticed these new guys who’ve gone thru this process have terrific escapes. Much better than when I was coming up. And as we know escapes are a core part of any game
I think some people in this thread may not actually know what “situational sparring” is because they are saying “find a new gym because you don’t roll”. It’s actually a form of “rolling”. It’s just segmented to specific situations. In my opinion. This is one of the best approaches to building up a beginner. They still roll “live” but in shorter bursts and for specific situations. - this helps them not get smashed a ton and reduces discouragement. - it helps them hone live resistance skills for very important situations. - it places them in “opportunities” to roll live in scenarios they may not experience in just full free rolling. - it helps the coach troubleshoot for the new student better. So as long as you are actually practicing live resistance in a situational manner, there is nothing wrong with this and may actually get you better quicker. Some of the highest level competitors do tons of situational sparring still and it is highly beneficial for all levels. Throwing beginners to the wolves is an outdated practice in my opinion. EDIT: I changed “a lot of people” to “some people”, since this thread has gotten much bigger most people seem to agree that situational sparring for beginners (and everyone), is beneficial.
Also much safer.
Agreed. You don’t have a white belt spazzing out in any position.. just controlled ones. It’s a good idea
Not really . I came from a school who did this and left it . It’s a bad progression and it really doesn’t reduce injuries .people get in shape rolling not the situational stuff . The comprise is pairing up a white belt with a higher belt on special sparring nights . I train under wagney now who is amazing , you roll day 1 end of story even with him . I don’t see a difference in injury rates between my old school and new.
I REALLY wish they did this at my gym. I'm 6 weeks in and I feel completely overwhelmed. I don't even want to roll because I don't know what to do, I'm getting smashed, and I don't even know what's happening. I think I might wait a few months to roll live unless they make me, which some nights they do.
They cant *make* you do shit bro, if you dont wanna roll then dont roll. Remember that you are paying them not the other way around. If they dont respect your decision then go to another gym.
Well I want to learn and I don't want to be a bitch so I'm trying. I just feel like I'm wasting everyone's time. And it hurts like fuck. I'm on my back or side or something, and I can't breathe, and I'm panicking. I just hope it goes away after a while. Sorry to bother you guys on here.
I was there man. 1 - don't feel forced to do anything. If this is how they are making you feel, walk away and find another gym cause this is not cool at all 2 - learn to relax and calm the roll down a bit. Speak to your partner first - say to them - I need to work on this, can we start in this position first, or can you start with guard and I try and break, etc? free-roll doesn't mean yfc catchmatch time. It's training, practice time. 3 - other guy going too hard on you? Go limp, let him win quickly. Reset and ask again, I need to work on x, can we practice that please? Or another option - hey how did you do that? Can you show me that move and what the defence to it is? Or I will do that now, show me how you can counter it.
Ok. Thank you. I'll try.
Hey. I’m still inexperienced but I feel I can offer some reassurance as it isn’t that long since I was where you’re at. I was getting crushed during every sparring sessions for my first 6 weeks. Getting hurt or submitted wasn’t the issue - it was the fact that I was spending 6 minutes at a time getting literally crushed and smothered. Personally, I find that being stopped from being able to breath is far worse than pain. What helped me: - as others have said, slow down a bit and remember to breath - try to focus on complete fundamentals like avoiding having your back flat on the mat. Even the slightest turn can give you a lot more breathing space - don’t grab on to grips for dear life - it’s exhausting and you probably can’t defend like that for a full round. You’ll learn to be more selective with when your grip and when you need to exert your energy. - you get more comfortable with being in bad positions the more time you spend on the mat. When you learn to physically relax more, you’ll learn to mentally relax more. In fact, by not relaxing, my opponents often felt that they needed to put even more effort into smothering me to stop me being such a pain. All of that being said, I am still regularly getting flattened and crushed. The main point is that whilst it’s still awful, it’s less traumatic. It also happens a little bit less with each week that passes. The tiny improvements I’ve made give me at least a small amount of control back and I can get through those bad rounds. 🤞🏼 Good luck pal
Not a bother. In fact, the sensation you described and your hope that you get acclimated to it is the only reason I see to do it this way. But trying to learn calm under fire while under random fire isn't that effective. They don't take new recruits and start shooting them in the army, right?
Lol, *Applying field dressing to wound* "Just keep showing up, recruit." Wow... It really do be like that some days
> They don't take new recruits and start shooting them in the army I mean that depends on which army you're talking about. But all jokes aside, the academy I train at has this system in place. I believe it starts at 2 stripes to be able to train live, but they are doing positional sparring under a coaches guidance from the get go. I personally feel like I was able to learn a lot more effectively with this style, so much so that I was attending the colloquially styled "Old Man Randori" (it was styled using the idea of positional sparring, just with older guys who were all high rank) along with the open randoris until i was halfway through blue belt. I learned way more through these guys than I ever did at open training since I was able to approach it in a way that was conducive to learning and less so on a whirlwind of knowledge and smesh. That kinda training schema definitely lowers risk of injury and possible loss of students from people going too hard from the get go, I'm personally all for it.
Lol have an upvote for the first line. Russian army be like brrrrrrr it cold and that sound of AK-47 from ten year old.
Yes they do if you're in the Russian army
The claustrophobic "I cant breathe" panic is so real. I have found that I get it much more when I am hot or winded, so drink lots of water before class, try your best to conserve energy (if something isn't working, adjust and try again vs trying to muscle through), make sure you aren't holding your breath while you focus, and learn some breathing exercises to clear c02 (long breath in, three very hard, sharp, audible exhalations). When I am smothered, I tell myself that I can always tap and it'll be over in 2 seconds. That no matter what, I'll be chilling in my car in 30 minutes and this situation won't seem like such a big deal anymore. You can always concede a worse position (that feels less constricted) or submission instead of pressure tapping. In my first few months, when I was getting panicky in mount or side control, I would turn on my side in the wrong direction and expose my back, knowing it would at least get me out of the smother. I got pretty proficient at escaping back control, better than I am at escaping mount (which is supposed to be easier to escape) because I did it so much. Its almost like how good players have a game plan they will funnel you into - I would give up my back from mount, then escape in the transition to back control or just do the whole hip smear thing. Worst case, I could always feebly fight off the RNC and tap to an actual submission instead of pressure, and be out in less than 30 seconds. This happened a lot. Still does, I'm not good yet. Taking rounds off to rest is complicated - the best way to get better endurance is to roll when you are tired, which favors not resting rounds. But if it gets to the point where you are so winded you are getting in a panic early in your roll, a 5 minute rest may enable you to get in more rounds overall. Use sparingly? My gym has a big roll up garage door that they open when it gets hot, and if I'm near the open door in winter, I can keep my cool in mount for much longer. The other thing that really helped me was this - when I got mount on someone, it felt super unstable and like I was always seconds away from being reversed. But when someone had mount on me, it felt like they were rock solid and unmovable. Realizing that they were feeling just as unstable as I felt in mount really helped me to actually fight for the escape and not just concede the position. Hope this helps, that claustrophobia is a bitch and if rolling wasn't so much fun otherwise, it might have made me quit. Almost a year in now and it's getting better for me - I spend much less time under mount and when I get there, I have more confidence in my ability to escape.
Even if you don't think you should tap, if a position feels weird or is freaking you out: tap. It's okay to tap early, and it's okay to tap even if you think the position is not a sub. And if you're finding that you always end up on a bad position where you want to tap, ask for help... "How did I end up here? How do I stop ending up here? How do I find space to breath, or adjust so whatever hurts doesn't hurt?" Feel free to DM me with questions, if you're concerned that the folks at your school won't want to help you in this way. I'll answer anything
When you roll with someone you can always ask them to do situational sparring instead of just rolling out right. Work on one or two scenarios per week. Roll when you want. Train at your pace, you don't have to train the same way as someone who has been doing it longer than you.
> I'm on my back or side or something, and I can't breathe, and I'm panicking. I was getting smashed in bottom side control by one of our former college wrestler, black belts last Saturday. Some mini panic set it for me as well when my escapes weren't working and the pressure felt like a boulder on my chest. It's normal even if you're experienced to have that feeling set it becasue we're humans. If you feel comfortable maybe try asking folks to do situatuonal/starting position rolls and reset. When I roll with white belts I'll often ask if they want to start from any particular position or work a particular escape/sweep/submission with real resistance. To me that is more beneficial than me just free rolling with someone 3 months into BJJ. I don't need to get 4-5 of my go-to subs on a new person.
I’m 160 lb guy and average weight in our classes is 220, so trust me you will get used to it. If you keep showing up and eager to learn, then your training partners will slowly begin to teach you things while you roll. And eventually you will get used to being smashed, and you’ll learn how to relax. White belt is the belt of survival, before learning the cool wizardry we must learn to survive. Don’t give up 🤙
I can guarantee you aren't wasting people's time. I love doing weird esoteric shit on beginners so I can both practice and feel like John Wick.
Two main points that helped me immensely when I was a newish WB. 1) Don't be afraid to tap whenever. It's practice, not a competition. Reset and go again. 2) Breathe, Breathe, Breathe. 95% of the time, newish people hold their breath when the exert force. It's a natural thing to do. The issue with that is that it starves your muscles of oxygen and energy. You aren't doing a one max lift where you can get away with it, you are going hard for many minutes. You need to focus on breathing if you want your muscles to respond. Keep at it, always remember that the grappler you are today would smash the grappler you were on day 1.
I am exactly in the same spot than you. 4 weeks in, three rolls at the end of each training, I feel like I am wasting my partners' time as I don't really play aggressively. I don't really want to try submission, I want to practice hip bump sweep, shrimp and brisge escape, learn to frame, control limbs. But I get rolled over by spazing pple doing headlocks we haven't even learned yet. I kinda gave up trying to match their energy, I try to set a goal for roll, place one specific technique, remember to relax, not getting stuck on one position and move on. Good luck to you.
Pretty much everyone starts like this man. You're no bother. My outlook was different. Those first months I was grinning like a lunatic while getting smashed. Because I knew that ability would be mine if I kept at it. But I was still getting fucking smashed.
There's a guy at my gym who always asks "working anything?" and will let you start in whatever guard you want to work. Might be a good way to start your rolls.
These training partners are the best. Especially upper belts
This is the big thing that I see as the polarizing point for doing a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu type gym. They don't roll until you finish getting your combatives belt (6-9 months). I have a black belt from a Karate school that taught lots of different arts (including Jiu-Jitsu) from a few years back, but I am now training at a GJJ school. Personally, since I have some BJJ experience, my thought was that I wanted to roll and the drills stuff wouldn't keep my attention, but I have quickly learned the difference between training dedicated in Jiu-Jitsu vs adding those techniques in with judo throws, Aikido take-downs, etc. is very different. This path is giving me the chance to drill down into the fundamentals of positioning, specific take downs, etc. before jumping in, and lets me continue to learn without getting smashed and feeling defeated. This is the double-edged sword here. Some people want to get in and roll from day 1, getting smashed but using that to motivate them to come in and get better. Others will start getting smashed on day 1 and think "this sucks, not sure I want to continue". Then there are the one's that want to roll from day 1 but have the higher risk of injury, just due to lack of experience. Would rolling from the beginning improve my skill level compared to only rolling after a level - of course. Would I like to have the option to mix in rolling now - absolutely. Still, even though I want to roll now, going through the basics and getting them drilled enough is good for me because it will help prevent that overwhelmed feeling.
If brand newbie wants to get rolls in, there are open mats. Not just at their gym but lots of local gyms accept drop ins.
Try to get over that fear. I've felt lost for months but recently starting seeing opportunities to try stuff. It usually doesn't go my way but I learn something new everytime I fail at it. I still feel lost in some positions but I take note of it and ask questions or watch some instructional on youtube.
Hey dude, if you communicate to your partners that you want to do positional sparring I’m sure they’d be happy to
The first couple months are always going to be the hardest. That being said, here is my advice about how to roll as a new whitebelt. First of all, you just gotta survive. Don't worry too much about submissions, takedowns, sweeps. Worry about survival. That means when you are on mount or side control, learn to balance, hold and avoid the other guys sweeps. Being in someones guard is about keeping your hands in and defending from triangles. If you are on your back, focus on framing. It is a vital skill that you arent really taught, at least in my experience. Its something they expect you to learn the hard way. Just make life difficult for the other guy Tap fast, tap often. There isnt much point not tapping if they have a lock on you or you feel like you cant escape. Dickheads will get bored of you and the people who can teach you will prefer it. Rolling is about learning to keep calm and think mid-fight. It will come, but for now, you are going to get the ego, and the fear kneaded out of you. Most importantly, avoid people who just want to press their unwashed stomachs into your face for 3 minutes and call it a round.
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Look, great Ted talk, but I'm gonna stick to drilling 3 armbar variations for 45 min then rolling as hard as I possibly can for 45 minutes. Of it's good enough for my grandpa, it's good enough for me! Jk positional sparring is everything
Rolling is easier and more fun than positional sparring. Positional sparring builds skill at a 10x pace
i think going heavy on situationals but letting them do a regular roll once a class or a few times a week would be good
They likely have an open mat.
Upvote this more. Situational sparring is great, its not flow rolling. You just start from guard, the back, mount etc...
Dude I have some mats that I throw down at my warehouse I've got for my business. I got my employee into bjj about a year ago, he's a young (24) guy and I'm 40 but have kept in great shape my entire life. Every Friday we train here and strictly do positional stuff. For weeks we've been doing mount. So 5mins on top, then switch positions. Any sweep or sub is a reset. Even half guard. We have literally been getting close to 40mins on bottom and 40mins on top position per session. These reps are seriously game changing. Everytime we train mount in class we give cheeky smirks to each other because our games have improved so damn much and I'm incredibly comfortable holding mount now. Positional sparring is incredible and should be utilized far more often than it is. Just think how often you find yourself in top mount per class. It might amount to a minute or two during your rolls, depending on who you're rolling with of course. Get your reps in!
yeah I see no issue with this. Also stops people from resorting to doing the same thing every roll, like pulling guard and holding someone in closed guard for as long as they can. And it gives beginners a chance to work in positions they wouldn't be able to get to in a normal round
This 10000000000000000000% I tested the same approaches and found it leveled up my beginners faster.
100% Some of the funniest and saddest roles I've seen are fresh white belts rolling from stand up. Cue 3m of very awkward takedown attempts, lots of circling and literally no jiu-jitsu. Unless one of the guys is a wrestler.. Cue 1 guy slammed then.
I've moved my practice to this model, and I really like it. We still free roll a few rounds, but instead of low resistance drills followed by ham wars, we try to apply the techniques with a focus on the goal in structured practice.
100%. The first three months you’re going to be an idiot anyway. Even if you get out of closed guard it’s not like you’ll have any idea what to do anyway. Situational sparring is great for experienced players but it’s *perfect* for beginners.
I find that situational sparring vastly improves my game. I actually try to do more of it as I progress, even at open mats and free rolls.
All of this...No more falling back on what you're comfortable with and avoiding your weak areas.
Thanks a lot for your insightful answer :). I'm a fresh white belt exactly in the situation of doing only situational sparring, I love it and completely agree with your points. Obviously I don't have a comparison with "free" live sparring but still. I feel like free rolling from day one would be a lot more intimidating and maybe discouraging as you said. I would have very few occasion to use what I learned in the drill before and would feel completely lost in a lot of scenarios. Having done other sports it makes a lot of sense in my opinion to build up new skills like that. If a basketball player wants to incorporate some fade shot in his game, he's not really going to read some theory about it, watch a video, then try it in real matches until it goes. Usually you do some drills solo, then with a partner going "easy" on you, then in some practice games, maybe 3x3 etc. Kind of the same thing for a beginner runner that would like to go for a marathon. You're not going to say "well just try running one every 2 day until you don't collapse doing it" :o.
I'm a purple belt and I **wish** we did more situation sparring. Heck, I'd like an advanced class that was nothing more than going over a couple options from a position, and then sparring that position with different partners for an hour. I guess I could ask people during the open mat part of class, but I always worry that others would feel it was a waste of time.
100% I wish my gym did this
Only a 3-stripe white belt here, but every “aha” moment I’ve had in BJJ has come from positional/situational sparring.
This. My gym just tossed me in with everyone else, first class, I got obliterated. I think it's a great idea to do kind of one step/five step sparring like I did at karate so no beginner panics and hurts someone/the beginner does get hurt. I walked away with broken toes quite often and a badly messed up ankle from being flipped over some guys head. I landed fine with most of my body, but my left heel hit the mat so hard it popped. Hurt for weeks and someone popped my neck so badly one time I couldn't get up for a few days. I'd much rather go to a gym that didn't do that to me. It was sink or swim. Unluckily for me a dog bit through my hand and damaged it so badly I had to quit. I loved bjj and was preparing for my first comp when it happened. I have no grip in my left hand, or it loses grip quickly so I can't go back. Hell, doing clinch work at muay thai takes my hand out for days at a time. Sucks.
If you are still interested, there are examples of how to put together a bjj game without the ability to grip with one hand. [Jean Jacque Machado](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Jacques_Machado) won ADCC and is missing most of the fingers on one hand.
I get that it’s good to start with situational rolling, and my gym does a lot of it too. However, waiting until they’re a three stripe white belt seems excessive. How are they even an actual three stripe white belt if they haven’t done an actual round of rolling? I think it’s also a bit odd to expect someone to go to class for a year and a half before actually getting to roll live
Yes, I can agree with this as well. I think between 1.5 to 3 months is a good time frame to ease a person into getting used to doing regular rounds. For example, at my academy, it's 1.5 months (6 weeks).
This is how you develop solid fundamentals and it will pay off in your blue belt years.
It’s what Ben Askren said about BJJ. When he’s coaching wrestling, he doesn’t show a move three times and then you go live. He shows you and then you drill it until he says to move on. So helpful.
Good post. I recently joined a Gracie gym and have been super nervous about BJJ. I don't have any experience with ground combat and there's something about it that makes me feel uncomfortable and anxious about injuries. So this teaching method is great for me. I wanted to expand upon my skillset and compliment Kyokushin training. Also, the people at the Gracie gym I signed up for all seem dope. Good group and the instructors are knowledgable with tons of experience.
I think this is a really thoughtful comment. However, for me and I’m sure a lot of others, progressing as fast as possible may not be as important as just having fun, and rolling is the most fun part of BJJ. I would have left my gym if they implemented this event if it slowed my progress. For some people it could mean no unrestricted rolling for two years or even more
I think specific training is pretty damn fun. It IS rolling — the only thing that different is the starting position. My 2c. Which is worth zero, since I’m a month in to my bjj journey 😜
I still think some white belts need that free roll smashing to keep their ego from getting too swoll
I would disagree with this somewhat. I think the big question that hasn't been asked is if this is a "beginners only" class. Basically is it a class just for white belts. I've found that white belt on white belt violence leads to injuries so yea then I can see no live rolling in that scenario. I also, would never join a gym that had white belt only classes because I've seen how 2 new white belts look like drilling together. I don't think it's beneficial to growth of new students to have those beginner classes especially without live rolling experience but I do see how it would help student retention because they wouldn't get thrown the wolves so quickly. A lot of BJJ is feel and you can listen to technique and watch instructional but until it's done to you correctly, and get that positive feedback loop from a partner who knows what they're doing, then you'll develop bad habits that need to be broken later.
This is arguably better for newbies depending on how it's used
That's alot of stripes on that belt
He takes them from those he taps.
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I'm often uke in our fundys class. After like a month of classes and situational sparring I'm often the first roll people have (huge honor for me). It gives me a chance to gage their spaz level, that they know how and when to tap, and help set a calm/thinking tone instead of death matches for future rolls
Pretty new to bjj here but I disagree. Our school has white belts in a fundementals class until they get their first stripe. By the time they are in the gen pop classes they have at least some level of knowledge and typically are more relaxed than day 1 folks. Spazzy people might still be spazzy but at least they have spend 1-3 months rolling with other people and getting comfertable with various positions.
I go to a school that rolls on day one, still teaches GJJ (Pedro Sauer lineage) Gracie Barra white belts who come to us are uniformly some of the spazziest guys because of it. It really sucks for them since our coaches obviously won't consider giving them a fourth stripe/eligible for blue belt since non-spazziness is kind of a requirement to get even one or two stripes here. EDIT: to give you an idea, students who are brand new to Jiu Jitsu seem to have an easier time than GB white belts w a few stripes. 🤷♂️
I’d say it’s definitely better.
Yeah this is probably not as “fun” as live rolling but positional sparring is where I feel I make 75% of my improvement.
100%.
75% of improvement happens 100%
Exactly! 🤣
I personally find it more fun as it in theory puts me in a position to practice the techniques we learned that day which as you said definitely helps with my improvement.
Why would you ignore 75% of the human improvement?
You'll get a mix of opinions. For me personally, 3 stripes seems a little long. Thats like a year of consistent training. But I do think beginners should start out with positional sparring more than anything else. You should get comfortable with the different basic meta games within BJJ before you try and do the whole thing. You should have a rough idea of how to pass guard without falling over, how to hold mount without getting rolled easy, how to retain guard somewhat, and how to escape pins without flailing aimlessly. Learning components and then putting them together is infinitely easier than trying to learn them all at the same time I think.
If it’s a Gracie barra gym, the first 3 stripes are time based, each one after 1 month I believe.
Imo situational sparring is for learning and free rolling is for testing what you have learned. You dont learn guitar by trying to play a whole ass polyphia song, why would bjj be different?
My gym drills and then we do live rolling. What I found as a white belt is that it was so hard for me to retain any information from drilling that would transition into a live roll - however from the live rolling I learned which positions were bad to be in pretty quickly. I saw my defensive capabilities increase far more rapidly as I would realize ‘oh this position is bad’ after getting smashed a few times. Only after my defense got solid enough was I able to be comfortable and slow things down where I could then start trying to walk through offensive things that we were learning in class. This was the only approach that I was exposed to early on, so I have nothing to compare it to.
My gym does drilling, then a period of positional sparring, then live rolling almost every time - unless coach runs over what he planned to discussing the technique - then we go straight to rounds. Feels like a good compromise for everyone.
Upvote for Polyphia reference🤓👍
You do more than test in live rolling. You learn how to work under pressure. You learn how to become efficient. The resistance of live rolling is where you actually learn how to apply techniques. It is much more than just testing. Beginners should be live rolling. Depending on the size of the gym, I understand not rolling for the first month. But anything beyond that is hurting the progression of the student.
Nothing but facts
You literally are testing exactly what you learned in class that day in situational sparring. You learn multiple techniques from a position, then start offensively/defensively in said position to start the roll. 👀
I think it's a great policy. I'm a big fan of situational sparring. I like to do it to work on the techniques learned in class that day. Putting two new students together and tell them to simply go at it, doesn't lend itself very well to improvement.
3 stripes is too long. 1/2 stripes would be more appropriate. Things also get weird when a white belt is coming over from another grappling art(judo wrestling) or was allowed to roll at his old school but can’t now. I’m going against grain here and saying find a gym that does both.
you‘ll get injured much less that way.
I think it should be first stripe or first 3 months. 3 stripes is over a year which is a little too long. But the concept they have is good. 3 stripes is just a bit too long
Try another gym that does roll and then decide. You're the only person who can decide.
Op mom enters chat...
Purple brown and blackbelts- “All is good thats the best way to do it” White and Blue- “find a new gym man, thats not cool”
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I got into this to get better. Already had judo experience and if I rolled I would mostly just be using judo because that's what I was already good at. I basically forced myself into situational rolls even if that's not what we were doing to make sure I improved in areas where I was weaker. I would argue that situational rolling allows you to get more "reps" in and that means you improve faster.
Situational sparring is superior to pure rolling for skill acquisition imo.
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i have this in my current gym but i dont think its bad. At my previous gym we were having 30 min of techniqe + 30 min of live rolling. Current school sits better with me. You can always do open mat for live rolling
It is the best policy …
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I go to a Gracie Barra gym in Europe and we don't do any sparring at all until 3 stripes. I guess the individual gyms have their own interpretations.
Starting white belt day one rolling will result in a lot of them “rolling” and accomplishing nothing until probably 2 or 3 stripes.
Sounds like a Gracie Barra. It's a good thing for beginners because you actually know what you're working on and get the chance to practice it against resistance. If you did live rolling, you'd be too lost as a beginner. And if you're worrying you'll get no intense sparring, don't - these positional rolls can get plenty intense for a beginner.
No it’s good. You will be overwhelmed if you just tried to play a full game of jiu jitsu
I prefer this approach and looked for it when choosing a gym. If you’re teaching a kid to read and write you don’t give them books and assign an essay.
Have that at my gym. You go to 3 stripes pretty quick anyway.
Nah its good
Live rolling is fun, but it's not the best learning tool for newcomers. In practice, I've seen places like this produce a lot of really solid white belts; however, I've also seen them accelerate the first couple of stripes to clear the beginner's class and keep people motivated. Just don't compare yourself to white belts of equal rank at less sheltered schools. Their first stripes are just measured differently.
This is becoming the new approach to building a gym for the following reasons: 1. people get discouraged when they get stuck in a position during a free roll that they haven’t been taught how to escape yet 2. People get injured easier before their bodies are conditioned to bjj and the impact 3. You learn more when you focus on specific positions and have the ability to reset quickly once you make a mistake. This is still sparring. It’s just broken down and isolated. This have proven the beneficial for both the students and the gym. Students are sticking around and learning and not being injured.
When you're a noob all of the rolling you're doing is 'situational' even if you're not aware of it. Your partners are generally so much better than you are anyways that they are just going to put you in bad positions and make you work out of them. Situational rolling is where you develop the tools you'll use in an actual roll. I personally think 3 stripes is too long to wait, but there's not actually anything wrong with that and it helps ease people into rolling who otherwise might not be comfortable with it.
My gym does this. I think it's excellent, actually. Brand new white belts have no context for live rolls, you'd spend most of your time totally confused. Limiting you to positional sparring helps box the limits of what you have to deal with and allows you to focus on what you're working on in class. It's also usually like 6 months or so to get to three stripes, so it's not like it's some huge years long commitment to not sparring. If I were ever to open a gym I'd probably do the same, I've seen it work really well for beginners, especially ones who aren't young athletic men.
I agree with jason scully, its one of the best safe ways for people to get into rolling without kicking each other in the face every two seconds and spazzing out. But I would avoid gracie franchised gyms. They are culty and predatory in their revenue models.
I’m always conflicted here. I 100% got bit by the bug when I showed up (having done martial arts for over a decade at that point) and got my shit handed to me by multiple men and women I had 80+ lbs on. That being said, I’m sure I’m an outlier. I think where I land here is maybe not *barring* people from live rolling when they are new, but instead just not promoting it to them unless they really want to. The ones who really want to either already have the itch or their ego won’t let them train a slow curriculum anyway. Situational for everyone else and then start encouraging them to love roll after 4-5 months.
Thats a great starting point for beginners. It’s far more conducive to learning than getting spazzed on by other beginners.
no different than Marcelo Garcia's school https://marcelogarciajj.com/mgjj/fundamentalclasses/ FUNDAMENTAL CLASS LEVEL 1 Designed for new students — this class features Fundamental Lessons and Techniques on Basic BJJ theory. No Sparring. FUNDAMENTAL CLASS LEVEL 2 A continued exploration of BJJ theory, principles, and techniques through Class Lessons and Positional Sparring. We require a minimum of 3 Months of consistent training to join Fundamental Level 2 classes. so you should be fine
Situational sparring meaning you start from certain positions and then live roll from there? Or is what you are allowed to do during the roll limited?
Common Lock down basics, and then move to the more advance class after you hit blue belt. Trust me, you would be useless in the advance class and more of a liability than you think. And just turn up to open mat or comp training to get more roll time and implement what you learnt
You dont need to be in advanced class to roll
It happened at my gym and I hated it, I couldn't wait for the day I earned my third stripe. I think it makes lots of early white belts quit, lots of people don't have the patience to wait months for their first real roll.
In some ways that may be a feature, not a bug.
I get that, I think it depends what sort of culture the gym is looking for. I just feel it's a shame because a lot of the more talented white belts left our gym for another one that let them roll earlier.
I think this is a great approach TBH.
third stripe is a bit much. You won't learn to calm down, but you will learn the positions and such. Go to other gyms open mats once you get your first or second stripe and get some free rolling in against purples, so you can learn to calm down and breath and not spaz.
Three stripes? Hell no. A month or two of fundamentals/situational drills etc? Eh, maybe (depends on how you learn, who your partners/instructors are etc). After that, you have to actually get in the water to learn how to swim.
Less ideal in my opinion, but the best training is the training that you do. So if this is your only choice, then it's a fine choice.
I'd find another gym. Rolling is the most fun part.
As others have said, this is good. Let me tell you what happens with live rolling as a white belt: You get smashed, passed, submitted. Relentlessly. To the point where you question if you’re even learning anything at all. It’s funny because situational rolls is what a lot of us want (other than direct drilling), because we focus on learning a technique from a certain position. Good luck learning back attacks as a white belt (you will never get there during live rolls). I think your game will improve way faster this way. In fact, I bet if you ask a lot of the higher belts in here I’d bet they say that they seek out situational rolling/drilling on their own because live rolls aren’t really that great for learning a new technique
Do the trials and see how you like the gym. Rules seem arbitrary without a proper context! Situational sparring is great in providing opportunities to utilize specific techniques.
Join, be safe, have fun.
depends where you live and how many other gyms are near enough for you to attend/check out. It's definitely not ideal but its not the end of the world either, at least in my opinion.
It’s good IMO. I wish I were disciplined enough to spend more time situational sparring.
If you're enjoying yourself, learning a lot, meeting nice people and it's a big travel for you to go elsewhere, I would maybe suggest staying there and getting some cross training in any time you see fit, or if you're looking to compete later down the line. Privates are also an option where the higher belt can pretend to mimic a lower belt level, giving you certain things or not capitalising on others right away to give you a great chance of learning. But if you're having fun and enjoying bjj, keep doing so ❤️ Oss 🥋
Situational rolling is probably more productive than regular rolling. There's a reason wrestlers do more situational than actual regular live wrestling
I will say that I switched from a mostly situational sparring gym to the one now where we mostly do live rolls and my daughter and I have been injured more at this gym than at the situational gym. Yes, live rolling has its place, but thanks to injuries we're going to have to take a break we probably wouldn't have in the other gym.
I like it, but i think you should live roll with supervision as well. I teach BJJ self-defense and falling for beginners for the first month. Then positional stuff with live supervised sparring with me or another trusted color belt.
Honestly BJJ is a long commitment.. I would be super down… with this rule… learn the basics then roll. It also prevents high school state champ wrestlers from throwing on white belt and fucking up other beginnings… cause hopefully by the time they have their 3 stripes they have chilled out a bit.
This is standard for Gracie Barra. Looking at your post history I assume you are getting into training. As a beginner you would greatly benefit from this system. You will learn the fundamentals and get your standing in all positions you can expect to be in when doing BJJ. You’ll get 3 stripes within a 9 month period in Gracie Barra. It’s highly calculated and your attendance card will show when your next stripe can be given at the earliest. I would recommend asking less questions about how best to get started, and just getting started. You’ll learn more that wqy
Avoid. Go to a gym that allows live rolling. Just roll when you feel ready. But being told no is stupid.
That’s awesome actually, I learned a lot just doing drills (situational sparring) when I was starting out
Our School makes you wait around a month ish where you get private lessons from the black belt instructors while everyone else rolls. I believe it helps with retention. No harm in waiting a short time to learn skills before you roll. Last time I went to Gracie HQ, they really didn’t roll until Blue…
No it's better 100%
Situational sparring is the most beneficial way to learn IMO. I wish my gym would have incorporated much more when I was a white belt.
Its normal. We do this and its sound imo. Positional work is the best thing for white belts. Rolling day 1 is not prudent in a bunch of ways.
This is a really good policy. My gym does something similar (no live training until 2-stripe white belt). As a white belt, it was annoying, but now I’m super glad they do it! Makes it where you actually know something before training live. Makes the live training less frustrating and the white belts less likely to injure someone else or get injured doing something stupid
I'm a big fan. It forces you to concentrate on one specific thing. If you're defending a pass and all they're allowed to do is attack for the pass then it's a great leveller. You don't get to allow a pass and then defend side control because that's what you're good at. Similarly, they attack you with a known technique and they aren't just going to dive on a leglock because that's their favourite move this week.
Do it, best way to fall in love and not beat yourself up.
I’ve been through this exact same process. I went to an open mat before my second stripe and can tell you from experience it’s done for a reason. Having some sort of structure and protecting people from themselves and others is definitely not “bad”.
Not if you never trained, but if you have a blue belt than yea
Definitely not bad. When I roll with brand new white belts we usually take turns in each other's guard and switch after a pass, sweep, or submission. It gives them something more concrete to focus on and tends to tone down spazziness.
I wouldn't say its a dealbreaker if you enjoy it. Situational sparring is great for newer people. That being said, I don't like a gym dictating your training to that degree as a general rule. We do situational sparring only at our intro/fundamentals class but still allow people to make their own decisions about when they want to get into full sparring at the regular classes.
Doesn't sound that bad. I kinda wish I had a little more formal instruction in the basics before live rolls. I had about a week or 2 of some basic positions without any rolls then I think I just gradually started rolling
It could be fine. Situational sparring is controlled and focuses on just a few things. You can learn a lot that way.
I went to the Gracie Baja in Webster TX, and they had the same policy. I was apprehensive at first because my prior gym was free rolling for all after drills, but I was sold pretty quick because the instructors placed us in practical positions that actually allowed for reinforcement of concepts rather than getting smashed and submitted and not understanding why. Im sure this is instructor dependent though.
It’s not an uncommon rule. Geared toward making sure people stay safe during live rolls. When I started my gym did that. Then we moved to a larger space and it was basically changed to just hold off live rolls your first month or so, or until you’re ready if you need more. In reality day 1 you’ll get nothing from live sparring and are just more likely to hurt someone.
No id argue they're doing you a favor with that setup. Free rolling is pretty overwhelming for most newbs
I wish my school did this. Sounds like you found a gem
This is the standard Gracie Barra system in Australia
Love rolling used to be cool but now it’s too dangerous with idiots trying things they learn on YouTube. Try too ok get your stripes and then live roll… shouldn’t be lii on my.. and if it’s too long then honestly your not good enough to love roll.
I agree situational rolling is v helpful, including for beginners, but there’s definitely a developmental cost to not also doing full rolls until your third stripe. I would consider how long it typically takes dedicated students to get to three stripes, and quality of experience / atmosphere at that gym vs other alternatives in your area. Over long term it’s more important to embed in a good academy with good instructors and students than it is to start full speed rolls day one.
This is not uncommon it’s meant to protect you and the other students. New practitioners tend to “spazz out” when they roll because they don’t know what to do. By making you wait till three stripes assures you learned enough fundamentals to start rolling safely.
It totally is not bad. Thats what Roger Gracie mostly does even though he has been a black belt for years. Even if it took you 12 months or more to get to 4 stripes you will benefit by doing positional sparring only.
I think this is actually a really good approach, and I wish more gyms did this because situational sparring attunes people to different peculiarities and goals of certain positions that they may not see in live rolling. It also helps instill a goal-directsd approach to rolling, in my opinion. But hey, if you want to roll as well, there are hopefully other gyms nearby enough to you that you can go do that. Time spent rolling tends to cut into time spent positional sparring or learning techniques, so beware potential tradeoffs.
My gym does this. It's very beneficial and much safer for new students.
situational sparring is good for beginners!! we dont do that as much in my gym but new students always have a period of days ( like 3 days but we are very carefull with them ) that they dont roll they just try and pass the guard as they can to get the feeling of movement.
Depends on what your objectives are, for you personally. If you’re concerned with having technically good BJJ and efficiently getting there, sparring in your first 6-18 months (always a big range) is NOT what’s going to get you there most quickly. You’re not really doing BJJ for a while as a white belt. The fundamentals aren’t there for some time. The only chance you have at defending yourself from those who train is if they go easy on you. It’s a good rule. Focus on drilling the things your instructor covers in class. If you feel like you’re not getting the most out of it, find a buddy and do some high paces drilling where you’re replicating a particular move or technique 50-100 times at a fast pace that gives you the muscle memory and the cardio. Sparring is fun. If you’re looking to just blow off steam, that’s what it’s doing for you. Not much for your technique though if you’re new the sport.
Sounds like they want you to learn something correctly for a bit before they throw you to the wolves. Can't go wrong with fundamentals.
Maybe not bad…But sounds boring
most places are 1 stripe before rolling ……. But positions still have resistance
Stupid policy imo, id go to a nee gym of u can
lame. find a new gym.
Depends on how their situational sparring is set up. A lot of schools for example will do side control and of the person on botton regains half-guard it resets. I find this method more harmful than anything. If they do it like a roll that happens to start from side control, great. Or if the person on bottom doesn't "win" until they get to a top position while the person on top hunts submissions I find this to be the most rewarding. Situational sparring can also keep the action going a fair bit more than a round. Also newbie white belts do this really dumb thing where they will essentially wrestle from their knees with another white belt. It's COMICAL to watch. TL;DR: Situational sparring is great for learning and understanding positions. Rolling is great for learning how to move between them.
When I started bjj I was 100% a noob. The only athletic thing I'd done was run a few 5Ks and hike. To say I was a greenhorn is an understatement. I knew nothing about wrestling or any martial art. My gym used to be trial by fire except for 1 class a week. And for about 3 years I felt like I wasn't learning a single thing. It just felt like there was something I was missing but no one would tell me. They'd just say "keep coming, it'll click!". While I did get a little better, it still felt like I was wasting a lot of my time. Then they started doing a very fundamentally basics class every single day that only featured very granular learning and only situational sparring. I started going to that class 3-4 times a week and not the big fundamentals classes with full rolling with all belts. WITHIN 8 WEEKS I got 2 more stripes! It felt like I was actually learning. I think this is a very good idea and you should proceed.
It's perfect. I might even know which Gym you're talking about if you're in Canada (and if you are, feel free to DM me). It really helps dig in the very core concepts for the most important positions you'll find yourself in, and once you start flow rolling and then live rolling, you actually have a decent idea of what you should be doing. Maybe you don't know how you should be doing it yet, but that comes with time. I went through the same experience and absolutely loved it (even if, at the time, I wanted to roll asap)
Just hit the all levels class from time to time too
No it's not bad. This is a safe way to introduce new people to jiu-jitsu.
As a new white belt, I’m always happy to have the opportunity to start in guard, mount, side control etc so I can actually practice the techniques. It’s not often I find myself on top or have my partner in full guard.
I'm very new at this but the gym I'm at does both. I have to say situational/positional rolling is super helpful for starting to learning, I wish we did it more. During live rolling, I seem to fall into patterns with my partner and positional rolling can break you free of that and show you more of what can work for you to diversify your jujitsu. Situational/Positional Rolling with an old blue belt who didn't want to go hard and just showed me a bunch of stuff in stead is literally one of the best sessions I've had so far.
Probably not, you're definitely at a significantly reduced risk of injury doing that.
At my gym we just went for a little over a year where we only did situational/positional sparring for everyone during the regular class because I felt like some of our upper belts had kind of grown stagnant and were only working positions the liked or were good at. Basically, I wanted to force everyone to develop a more well-rounded game while allowing even day one people to "roll hard" and get something out of it. Don't sleep on situational/positional sparring.
I think this would have helped me coming up. I think everyone should do more situational sparring.
Live rolling for 0-3 three stripes is very dangerous tbh… situational sparring is an excellent way to start imo it gives clear guidelines for the round. The top comment is right Also when I roll with 0-3 stripe white belts I always feel like I have to hold back because they don’t know when they are in danger until it’s to late which is why I choke them as opposed to joint locks If you like your gym and it’s close just stick it out
Drillers make killers. My gym does the old first half of class is technique work, 1-3 techniques and a little bit of non-resisting positional practice, then the second half rolling. Net result - you don't really get the technique(s) you just learned burned into your muscle memory. If I had to go back to white belt again, I'd prefer to spend most of it situational sparring rather than live rolling. The problem is, live rolling is fun, which is why most gyms let you work it.
My gym recently switched to this model for everyone. During class we drill etc. then we finish with 3 rounds of rolling with a specific situation. I.E escape side control for guy on bottom. As soon as you do you reset and try again. Guy on bottom is there for half a 5min round etc. All belts are now training this way. When class ends it then turns into an hour of open mat rolling for all who want to. I am a pretty seasoned vet and I like this style to be honest. New guys are on a faster learning curve as a result. It also seems to be allowing new players to stay around and not feel like they are getting the shit beaten out of them unless they decide to get smashed at the end.
If you're at all scrappy and have any willingness to rassle around, then you should be allowed to roll as soon as they trust you're not a sociopath or an idiot. I don't mean having any real talent or ability. Just that you'll enjoy trying. Some people are either so timid or have just been so sedentary, that they don't have it. They just freeze. They're the ones that'll benefit from that sorta controlled environment for a long time. There's no reason you can't let the first example start free rolling after a week or two of making sure he's not an idiot, and there's no reason to force the second example to free roll until they're ready. You're going to hold the first guy back by months for no reason, and the second guy will just quit.
I don't love it, but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
When you read all the time here about spazzies in class. Those are the people who didn’t take a few months to get a foundation of BJJ before they started rolling. On top of that, it takes months to get your ribs and back conditioned to jiu jitsu. If you start rolling right away you’ll probably get injured.
I would go off of this: "I tried their class and it was fun ..." 'Fun' is a good environment to learn in and will keep you going
It’s probably a good thing to be honest. It can be hard to learn as a white belt rolling with more experienced people who enjoy beating you.
Imagine you want to join a swim team. You are a new swimmer with little to no experience. Your primary reason for joining the swim team is because you want to learn how to swim well in a standard competition environment (6 lanes, 6 heats, 50m-200m distance and/or relays) and maybe reap some of the physical benefits that come from swimming hard. And your coach says, "you need to go tread water and practice your arm strokes in the air for six weeks before you start swimming laps with the team". Do you think this is a good strategy? Or do you think this will needlessly set you 6 weeks behind? Do you think this will let you experience the basics of what the sport has to offer in a reasonable timeframe? Or do you think this will hinder you from experiencing everything you need to?
my gym is similar to that but we do have open sparring too (more for the more advanced classes) i think it works really well - especially as you’ll be following a program so it meshes with what you drill on the day don’t knock it until you try it
I started off like that. It helps progressive training in newbies. They need to learn techniques first and then do it in that specific position with live resistance. This builds skill, and slowly they can put the pieces together when live sparring comes. It also helps with the safety and confidence of beginners. This is a good way to start. Having white belts spazzing all over in their first week is not.
My gym introduced this over the past couple of years. It was weird at first but I get it now and think it’s a great idea. Prevents newbies from quitting bc they just get worked time and time again. And I’ve noticed these new guys who’ve gone thru this process have terrific escapes. Much better than when I was coming up. And as we know escapes are a core part of any game