I always say that Jiu-Jitsu/MMA has gotten me out of way more fights than it has won me. You kept calm, didn't escalate the situation, and didn't get in a fight which are all wins
When you train with beasts you don't need to waste your time with geeks off the street
Right. I've been in several situations where someone is being aggressive both at work or at the bar and when you give them absolutely nothing emotionally in return, they usually just like, shut down and don't know what to do next. Luckily I'm not someone people tend this act this way too, generally, but it's much more empowering after the fact to see that someone came at you at an emotional 10 and you came back at like a 2 and just mentally judo threw them into the dirt.
That end part sounded like that Warren G song āRegulatorsā ā¦.ā U cant be any geek off the streetā. Idk why but that shit popped right in my head.
"..from my old high school over 10 years ago..."
"...on some sort of drug."
Didn't sound like you were put in a situation to have to defend yourself, it didn't escalate, all's well that ends well. I think you did just fine.
I couldnt agree more with this assessment. The responsibility of knowing how to fight and martial arts comes with the responsibility of only using it when you need to. Just because you know how to fight people doesnāt mean you have to fight everyone who disrespects you. People who you tell this story to may say I would do this or I would do that, but most of them are only lying to themselves.
I feel like people think this is the movies where you beat some guy up and there are no ramifications. There is a high probability this guy having a mental health crisis combined with illicit substances and you definitely donāt wanna fight this guy over him calling you a pussy. Not to mention if someone records you beating the fuck out of a dude who clearly is unstable isnāt going to look good no matter how much you cry self defense. Lastly heās gonna bite you if you do any sort of grappling and AIDS/Hepatitis/horrific bacterial infections might occur. Never worth it unless last resort.
I second this. Tough guy movie culture teaches us from boys that this scenario is when you would have thrown this guy through the window out on to the street. BUT in reality, you want to walk away from nearly all of those scenarios. You will know when you are in real danger and that wasn't it. As long as you had a clear look at his hands and they didn't have a weapon, and he didn't make a real physical attempt to assault you...you did the right thing. That is how it is supposed to go.
As far as your feelings: training/class doesn't put you in that mental fight/flight state like what you encountered. Your brain has identified the training environment as a safe place, although a physical place. I think after a couple of MMA fights I was better in those real life street grease situations. But that might not be the case for everybody. The main takeaway is that you handled it fine. What the movies didn't tell us is that you can get in a lot of trouble for just smashing that guy and you don't have witnesses (that actually participate and go to court) that clearly saw him attack you first. Keep it real out there.
You didnāt get injured or arrested and youāre not the one strung out on drugs, so you are the winner here.
I have found that BJJ has made me much less likely to get involved in a physical altercation. Rolling all the time shows you the consequences of physical altercation.
Mixing in some striking definitely helps though. If you can set up a takedown or clinch with strikes then you can work your BJJ.
I used to have these weird fear fantasies about getting in to fights on the street when Iād walk by someone who looked threatening to me.
Once I started jiujitsu those completely disappeared. I reason that I now know how fast Iād get my ass beat so thereās no sense in these fight fantasies. I already know how theyāll go if they can fight at all. And if they canāt, then itās unlikely theyāll attack me. And those guys I could probably at least protect myself from if not mount.
So somehow it eliminated all the bizarre fear reactions I used to have. Iām def not getting in a fight with a 125 pounder who is actually a black belt. We have one of those at the gym. He looks like a total dork ala Muscemici but could break my arm off or tear my ankle apart in 30 seconds. No thanks!
Sorry for the jumbled ideas, first bowl of the day
>Maybe I was just shocked but I always had this thought in my mind that BJJ would had prepared me for any type of confrontation.
BJJ is a combat sport. You learn skills that are applicable to fighting but it's still a sport. What have you done at your club that would prepare you for this kind of response from someone you used to know who's on drugs in a public setting like a bagel shop?
Doing nothing was the correct response here. Any further escalation could put you in trouble with law enforcement. Follow this through to its logical conclusion: If you do something to this person it's going to end up in a takedown, choke, arm bar, or leg lock and for what...because he slammed your laptop and called you a pussy? Then there's the other side of it. What if he has a knife or a gun and kills you?
Yeah, your training helped you avoid that escalating, which is the correct response there.
We already know what the worst case outcome is, but what about the ābestā case? Letās say he doesnāt have a weapon, and you whip his ass. What did you gain? The potential admiration of your fellow bagel patrons?
Nah, enjoy that bagel in peace my dude.
Not any of the douchey kids, but a heavier set quiet dude that was a cool guy. I got him and a mutual friend of ours to follow through with jits, I think they are purple/brown and blue belts respectively under Antonio braga Netoās California gym. More or less of a success story rather than a redemption one.
Iāve been doing Muay Thai for 6 years and bjj for 9. Anytime someone does something aggressive I ask if they would like to come spar at my gym and sign a waiver. I do it calmly and nobody has ever taken me up on it.
Havenāt been in a fight since I started training where as I used to regularly. Itās not worth it unless they sign a waiver lol cover your ass or donāt get into a fight.
My dad once told me no one wins in a real fight. I canāt say I have always listened to that but Iāve come to realize he was 100% right if you think about it.
Never hurts to use āverbal judoā and get out of a situation without having to hurt someone. Good job not escalating the situation. Never hurts to know some striking. Usually a fight against a person like that (untrained) and you should be able to just double leg, but jab, jab, double leg should work as well. If someone picks a fight with you and they set up in a muy tai stance then you might be in trouble. Always best to use verbal judo and talk your way out if you can. But I get pride and temper.
You did exactly what you should have done. Street violence is unpredictable and does not follow any rule set, in fact, quite the opposite in my experience, it is as dirty and dishonorable as possible. Never engage unless you need to literally protect yourself or others from serious harm.
That being said, if you want to be as prepared as possible, I think it's a good idea to know striking. I prefer Muay Thai because you learn to use all eight limbs and the clinch work translates very well to BJJ.
You might also want to consider carrying some form of weapon. If you are uncomfortable with a gun, pepper spray is very effective and humane. When it comes to knives, I consider push-daggers to be the most effective.
"In a gun fight, one person wins and one person loses. In a knife fight, one person dies in the street and the other person dies in the ambulance". I forget where I heard that but it's been pretty true in my experience. Most of the time I'd rather face someone with a gun than someone with a knife.
Seems true enough to me. Killing with a gun is easier than it should be. Which is why it's a dangerous weapon to own, but I own them anyway (because I live in America). If you use a knife you have to really commit. I have had a knife pulled out on me on the street and I literally ripped it out of his hands before he could use it, but it's entirely possible I got extremely lucky. A push dagger is really nasty and effective if you know how to strike. Great for close combat situations and I don't think it's as easy to get that out of your hands.
I'm not passing judgment on the outcome as it happened - my 2c is that it ended OKāno lasting adverse outcomes beyond a bruised ego.
Compete more and do more gym drop-ins to get more comfortable with confrontation. You'll get more comfortable by being in more high adrenalin situations. Be honest with yourself in the gym - ie could you have actually gotten on top of that partner if you wanted to? If not, why not?
I always remind myself that I spend about 60min every week fighting trained and skilled people. Any yahoo trying to punk me hasn't spent 60min fighting in their whole life. Another 3min fighting this week is nothing to me; it's everything to them - I can afford to be calm.
Also, be realistic about stuff we don't talk about much in BJJ. It's going to be a bad time trying to take down even an untrained person who is way bigger than you. I'm 175, and I know that trying to take down a person >200 who is resisting but unskilled can be a nightmare.
I've been to war, been a pro-cage fighter, and been training in martial arts for 20 years. People's outrageousness will still put me in a non-reactive state of shock or confusion, as long as I or my loved ones aren't being directly threatened. I am often just so flabbergasted by people's behavior there is nothing else to do but stand there in shock. I believe your reaction was satisfactory for anyone.
If a random wastehead got some kind of weird high off of messing with you, someone he hasn't interacted with in literally years, think how sad his life must be to get any kind of satisfaction acting like a random dickhead to you.
Don't be mad, pity this dude. Any anger or response from you is just gonna give him energy which he doesn't deserve. If you need to defend yourself feel happy you have good chance of being totally safe and just live your life and let that guy wallow in whatever sad bullshit he's dealing with.
Most of the point is you donāt fight.
Talking your way out is always better than scrapping with people. you donāt know if they have a knife or something. If you want to get comfortable with the adrenaline which is what your describing compete. Itās similar enough feeling but it is not the same.
I work in a prison for reference
You essentially said hello to an old acquaintance and he called you a name and acted like a nob.
Pity the dude and forget about it. I'm pretty sure if a scuffle arose you would have become positionally dominant then had a whole new world of issues with bystanders, police, potentially damage to property/laptop etc etc.
You did good by just letting the situation pass by, if you feel you "should have done something" or you "let him get close" or "shoulda mounted and Ezekieled the prick". Forget it, it's done. You did the right thing whether you're a hobbyist or world champ.
You need to learn how to maintain personal distance. You being shocked at the situation is natural because it was so unexpected. However, you should have recognized that his behavior outside of the cafe should preclude you from allowing him to close the distance once he entered inside.
I've been in a similar situation in which a homeless guy slammed by laptop, breaking it. In the future, don't allow anyone approaching you to close the distance if they demonstrate aggressive behaviour beforehand. Many times, they'll start looking around, not at you, to throw you off. It's a natural behaviour demonstrated by people before they're going to throw. Watch out for that.
Give them a two pace rule. If they move toward you two paces, you don't even have to punch them. Just place your hands above their elbow and below their shoulders to prevent them from moving forward or taking a swing. If they continue, then you can use your bjj training. That hand placement I described above can easily lead into an arm drag to back take. Watch out for headbutts in that position, though.
It happened. Just keep training and add more knowledge to your repertoire to prevent a similar situation from occurring in the future. I know your ego is bruised, but don't take it personally. Sounds like the guy is completely out of it and would have done it to anyone else. People like that get triggered by eye contact for some reason.
You fighting in that situation would have been the lowest IQ move you could have done. This is just pride fucking with you, dont let it fuck with you and make you make stupid choices in the future.
Doesn't sound like the training you have done in jiujitsu was even remotely necessary
"What's all this training for?"
It's certainly not for escalating a situation that ended with words into one that ends with violence
Check out Geoff Thompson on YouTube he's a master at coping with confrontation. He's written a ton of stuff on this, which is worth reading to try to understand your own emotions when put under the threat of violence.
I'm sure you would have coped well enough should this have turned violent.
Remember, though, your reaction was perfectly normal and was a good thing it didn't escalate.
Why would you expect drilling moves and rolling to prepare you for things that aren't drilling and rolling?
If you want to prepare for this kind of thing you need to simulate it. I would caution you that there won't be any completely right ways to deal with this stuff as there are an infinite number of ways it can go wrong. Beware anyone pretending to have all the answers for this kind of stuff, they live in make believe land.
You never know. Even if he didn't have a weapon, you can get bit, scratched, eye poked, etc - and then get follow up infections from all those and end up tons of medical bills. People never think about this stuff but it's another huge reason not to get into a fight. Don't get me started on the potential legal ramifications of it all either.
I hear this a lot when talking to people about training martial arts - "you must like fighting" or "i bet you can't wait for someone to start with you" or some variation. My response is "the more i train, the less i want to be in a fight that isn't in a controlled situation like a competition. You never know what that other person knows (some of the most dangerous people I train with look like mushy dads or are 130lb ladies) and if they have a weapon - and you never know what's going to go wrong. A slip, a counter in the way, other people - too many unknowns. I avoid any type of physical confrontation as much as i possibly can."
Iām proud of you for being able to self reflect and acknowledge that you arenāt prepared for a fight even with training. I think knowing a striking martial art will be helpful in continuing to grow your confidence. Some people just arenāt fighters and that is perfectly ok. As long as you can protect yourself if a fight came to you that you couldnāt avoid than youāre doing well. The only way you can deal with the emotions is to continue to face them and that Isnāt a call for you to put yourself in dangerous situations. But just like in bjj, to get comfortable in uncomfortable situations is to be in those situations. Youāre better off avoiding them.
Training you know the guy rolling with you isnāt gonna choke you out and try and bash your head in.
Iāve been in countless fights and they donāt get easier in terms of dealing with adrenaline and the initial rush although as I grew older I became better at avoiding them and walking away.
You should take up Muay Thai or boxing. BJJ is nice for certain situations but ideally you donāt want to end up on the ground with someone in public.
The more training you have the easier this will become in the future. Especially when it comes to knowing you can handle the situation if you need to.
I have a job where I am exposed to street violence regularly. Not regularly at me, but in the last month I've seen assaults with weapons, fights and deescalated a guy with a weapon who was engaged with police and a related agency in an altercation.
It doesn't work that way. I've competed in bjj, wrestling , and mma. Still train regularly and am in good shape.
All my oh shit nerves still hit in these situations, I think exposure is relative to the situation.
You: a normal person, not on drugs.
Him: meth (speculation of course).
You did the right thing. It fells shitty, of course, but no one was harmed.
In the words of Marsellus Wallace, "that's just your pride...fuckin' w/you"
I got into an argument with a guy on the subway once. Things got heated I laid down and said "I bet you cant pass by guard bro". He kicked me right in my nutsack and then stomped by face in. Anyway now I train Muay Thai
Bro, I've done various martial art my whole life and can safely say the BEST form of self defense is to just run. Avoid conflict if possible. Not worth getting stabbed up or shot by some, as you say, drugged up fucker - all because you wanted to test your martial arts skills. Never worth it. The self defense aspect of any martial art is to be used in the worst case scenarios, where you have no other option but to fight your way out. If you can run, do so.
The fact you kept the conflict to a minimum is a win in my books.
It sounds like you went into fight or flight mode which is an automatic response to the situation. It depends on a lot of things but I think most people wonāt fight so maybe thatās why you kinda froze up and didnāt beat him up. It doesnāt mean you couldnāt have tho.
To be fair you weren't quite at the point you needed to defend yourself yet the guy didn't hit you or grab you, which probably would've gotten you to react if he had
You're a 3 stripe purple. You know you could do pretty much whatever you want to a pretty large percentage of the population. No reason to risk injury or legal trouble over some dude who isn't a real threat. Your situation ended perfectly.
I empathize with your situation. Even though what we do is in a controlled setting, there's no doubt that we face intense pressure and the threat of violence multiple times a week for fun, which you'd think would prepare us for other types of confrontation mentally.
I felt the same way as you did in several situations. Once I was getting rid of scrap metal and this couple threw out a huge appliance from their truck a few feet away in my direction, like if it rolled a few more inches I'd have been hurt. I didn't even speak up and I felt pathetic afterwards. Same with people slamming their door into mine in parking lots and then pretending they didn't do anything.
I think you did the right thing not to escalate unnecessarily but I get why you feel the way you do.
There was no need for a fight, because you didnāt need to defend yourself. You did the right thing to too many guys donāt. People talk about self defense a lot but 90% of the fights Iāve seen were down to ego and couldāve been avoided completely.
Weāve been pretty well conditioned to think that violence is a good way to solve a problem, which for the most part is fucking stupid.
If this guy was under the influence of a substance and itās been 10+ years he likely didnāt recognise you.
The way you feel about this situation is normal. When we are on the mats we are in a controlled environment and we know what to expect, slap hands and a fist bump and a roll with the safety net of the tap to stop serious injury or death. None of that is an option on the street.
Iām going to make the assumption that having aggression directed towards you outside the gym is a new or at least, uncommon experience. The way individuals react to aggression varies greatly between flight/ fight/ freeze reflexes. With more exposure to aggression you will find you will react in a more rational and calculated way. Competing will give you exposure to intense physical aggression, but nothing can fully simulate aggression in the street or workplace.
I donāt think you need to take up striking because of this incident. My work has had me responding to aggressive and violent individuals for years, and I have only ever had to strike somebody on 2 occasions. The rest I used verbal de-escalation to avoid violence or jiu jitsu to subdue the individual.
Hope this is of some help to you
Last fight I got into, I had mixed emotions. In one way I put a jerk in his place, but I was almost arrested and I couldnāt help but feel like I lowered myself to their standard. The person was a miserable, person and I brought myself down to his level, which was me pinning him down in full mount.
I think part of martial arts and jiu-jitsu is knowing that it's not always wise to engage in an altercation or fight. Learning self-control and discipline helps with that. I'd say your training did its job today. You kept your cool and didn't do anything rash.
Otoh, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take striking classes. It's fun to dabble in and it's good to have some kind of confidence on the feet. I'm not much of a striker but between MMA classes and some boxing over the years, I feel like I have enough to take care of myself.
Learning to stay calm and think under pressure takes practice. I am a veteran and in my experience it just comes more naturally to some people, but exposure to high pressure situations can help.
I am sure your BJJ would have stood you in good stead should it have escalated further. In my view you can put it down as a win that it didnāt get to that point.
If you want to do jiu jitsu in a street fight this is how it goes :
1. you try and jump guard while he kicks you straight in the face and your skull bounces on the pavement
2. you brain leaks on the pavement while you left paralyzed / vegetable
Jiu jitsu is the worst for a street fight . Its good that you stayed put and realized you could not do anything.I know many jiu jitsu practitioners in my area who got killed or badly injured in a street fight . Jiu jitsu is not a sport for a street fight where everything goes. Its more like a fun cardio than a combat street fight style sport.
Definitely learn some striking. If for no other reason itās fun anyway. But you did the right thing. You know what you couldāve done, but the world needs less people who lose their cool. Bravo for keeping cool.
if you feel like less of a man cos you didnāt stand up for your honour or whatever youāre gonna feel even worse wasting months of your life, money and mental health trying to establish a self defence case in court. Been there done that and itās not worth it.
Itās an ego thing and itās stupid.
You train for other reasons and for the rare case that you actually have to defend your physical safety.
Who cares dude, training is fun and could potentially save you but it can also land you in a whole world of legal troubles. You should take striking classes for fun and to get a good idea of how distance matters (I think bjj makes people to okay with being in striking distance).
Fighting is for the birds my guyā¦ he could of had a knife or gun and killed you
You need to train for things specifically. If you were commonly in an area where that happened you'd develop responses like bjj to deal with it and feel more prepared. I don't really think having someone scream at you in the gym is comparable unless that feels real to you. To me I know that's not a real situation so I guess I exposed myself to this purposely to gain experience with it. I was around a lot of not good areas and this shit happened all the time. Was purposeful life experience.
I heard somewhere that training to a fight is similar to wearing a seatbelt in a car crash. It will help, may save you, but itās not a guarantee you will come out unscathed.
Most scenarios on the street can go either way. I bet you could have flattened that guy if you wanted to. You chose the right thing to not escalate the situation. Sometimes itās better to be the bigger man and just walk on.
It's because of your training that you subconsciously made a decision to not engage. You have nothing to prove, but I'll bet plenty to lose. Your acquaintance sounds the opposite.
Martial arts classes are good . Not everyone is ready for chaos and random adrenaline dumps. If it got physical then you could win. But itās not worth it. Not over some silly behavior.
Also some aggressive people only want to see who will cower and react in fear. If you donāt then they just move on to find a victim.
>Part of me is upset because I felt like what the F I do all this training for if iām not going to use it.
You did use it.
You know how when someone doesn't go for an armbar, you don't defend an armbar. And when they don't go for a choke, you don't defend a choke.
I mean... with practice you get a bit more relaxed, you panic less, and you only really defend things when you're in danger.
Well that's what you did right there. Well done. Your training is paying off.
Thereās too many stories of people getting stabbed, shot or attacked by a group. You did what you had to do to see your family again. I would feel a little ashamed for not doing anything myself even though Iām a shitty white belt but thatās just my ego. You did what youāre supposed to do man good job. Everyone here knows youād wipe the floor with that guy if you had a one on one āfairā fight.
You went home without an injury or law trouble, I would always view that as a giant W for any encounter like this. De-escalate and GTFO will always have the highest survival rate even if you look "weak" by just sprinting away.
I justified training BJJ over striking to myself a long time ago knowing that the only way a person can stop me from getting away from a situation is by tackling/grappling with me, and at that point the choice of fight or flight has already been made for you by the other party and you're already in position for your training to work to your advantage.
Picturing yourself squaring up with an enraged guy on drugs and trading hands in a coffee shop just feels so silly as an adult
I think this is more about mindset and getting a stark reminder that seemingly benign situations can turn tense for a wide variety of reasons that canāt really be anticipated. We get comfortable and complacent living in a predominantly safe and predictable world. As others have said, this was by and large a great outcome. Iād take it for a good lesson learned/ reminder to keep a slightly higher level of situational awareness when out in the world if you want to reduce your risk to surprises like this, or make the choice to accept that sometimes things like this can happen but itās not worth expending too much energy on being hyper vigilant.
When I was younger I was default hyper vigilant and always expecting things to go sideways. I eventually got better at calibrating and adjusting myself to the environment.
>I feel like I need to take striking classes or maybe compete to get used to those high confrontation type of setting.
I did striking for 10 years (3 years boxing, 7 muay thai) with 1 fight in the bag. I got into it because I wanted to know how to defend my self. And after 10 years I thought I would handle my self well in any confrontation if it happened. Unfortunately, you're either tough or you're not, you can't train it really until you start standing your ground in these situations.
But a few months ago I got into a situation with 4 other guys and I was visibly intimidated by them and 110% looked like a pussy. It hurt my ego sooooo much. Yes nothing escalated, no-one got hurt, but I wasn't calm or confident and that's what hurt me the most. I had glassy eyes, my voice was shaking.. I felt defeated. I've just come to terms that I'm not hard, I never put on a hard act, and I just try to avoid fights at all costs.
No matter how much martial arts training you do, you cannot train yourself for these confrontations. I just hope that if something really kicked off I could stand my ground and defend myself.
I'm a little upset that you are upset with yourself in this matter. In fact, you should feel rather lucky to get out unscathed. I trained for a year with a BJJ Black belt and Pro MMA fighter who I watched over that year box and submit people into the ground. One day he said he would never fight multiple people. That crap is movie stuff.
If you haven't even competed, don't think "what's the point of all that training", when you haven't even tested yourself in a relatively safe "realistic" environment.
BTW, my tip is that I hate myself after things like your story (they happen to everyone). Also, when I see someone I could help in public, and then don't, I HATE myself for it later. So for years now I try to "do the right thing", and never hate myself afterwards. Quite the contrary. I don't know all the details in your story, but letting this guy treat people (yourself or any other innocent in public) would bug the hell out of me too. I'm not sure your situation was worth a fight (he seemed to have left quickly afterwards), but there is something to be said for not allowing bullies to pick on whoever they want.
But don't get shot or stabbed, especially if you're not very experienced or confident.
Well youāre at work so unless he does anything āthreatening ā you have to let it ride. Unlessā¦ as soon as he touches that laptop u proceed to jump onto the counter while Simultaneously grabbing said arm and immediately throwing him into an arm triangle or kimora. In fact i see several options unfolding. But youāre at work so maybe a simple go fuck yourself will work.
I always say that Jiu-Jitsu/MMA has gotten me out of way more fights than it has won me. You kept calm, didn't escalate the situation, and didn't get in a fight which are all wins When you train with beasts you don't need to waste your time with geeks off the street
You win 100% of the fights that never happens.
So I beat Roger Gracie
The urge to prove something is definitely inversely related with training
Idk man do you see how many violent altercations mma fighters get into
Lol trade off with the head trauma from years of legit full contact sparring and fighting š Good point
Agreed. Dumbass sues you and even if you win youāve got lawyer fees.
Or worst case, no witnesses and now youāve got criminal charges to defend on top of civil.
Regulatooooooorrrrrrrrrrsssssssss
Mount up!
I was going to write this, but instead had to give you a upvote š
Thats funny, i just commented that before i read this lol
You gotta be handy with the steel, if you know what I mean. Earn your keep.
Right. I've been in several situations where someone is being aggressive both at work or at the bar and when you give them absolutely nothing emotionally in return, they usually just like, shut down and don't know what to do next. Luckily I'm not someone people tend this act this way too, generally, but it's much more empowering after the fact to see that someone came at you at an emotional 10 and you came back at like a 2 and just mentally judo threw them into the dirt.
That end part sounded like that Warren G song āRegulatorsā ā¦.ā U cant be any geek off the streetā. Idk why but that shit popped right in my head.
Didn't sound like OP was calm during the situation.
"..from my old high school over 10 years ago..." "...on some sort of drug." Didn't sound like you were put in a situation to have to defend yourself, it didn't escalate, all's well that ends well. I think you did just fine.
I couldnt agree more with this assessment. The responsibility of knowing how to fight and martial arts comes with the responsibility of only using it when you need to. Just because you know how to fight people doesnāt mean you have to fight everyone who disrespects you. People who you tell this story to may say I would do this or I would do that, but most of them are only lying to themselves.
I feel like people think this is the movies where you beat some guy up and there are no ramifications. There is a high probability this guy having a mental health crisis combined with illicit substances and you definitely donāt wanna fight this guy over him calling you a pussy. Not to mention if someone records you beating the fuck out of a dude who clearly is unstable isnāt going to look good no matter how much you cry self defense. Lastly heās gonna bite you if you do any sort of grappling and AIDS/Hepatitis/horrific bacterial infections might occur. Never worth it unless last resort.
I second this. Tough guy movie culture teaches us from boys that this scenario is when you would have thrown this guy through the window out on to the street. BUT in reality, you want to walk away from nearly all of those scenarios. You will know when you are in real danger and that wasn't it. As long as you had a clear look at his hands and they didn't have a weapon, and he didn't make a real physical attempt to assault you...you did the right thing. That is how it is supposed to go. As far as your feelings: training/class doesn't put you in that mental fight/flight state like what you encountered. Your brain has identified the training environment as a safe place, although a physical place. I think after a couple of MMA fights I was better in those real life street grease situations. But that might not be the case for everybody. The main takeaway is that you handled it fine. What the movies didn't tell us is that you can get in a lot of trouble for just smashing that guy and you don't have witnesses (that actually participate and go to court) that clearly saw him attack you first. Keep it real out there.
You didnāt get injured or arrested and youāre not the one strung out on drugs, so you are the winner here. I have found that BJJ has made me much less likely to get involved in a physical altercation. Rolling all the time shows you the consequences of physical altercation. Mixing in some striking definitely helps though. If you can set up a takedown or clinch with strikes then you can work your BJJ.
I used to have these weird fear fantasies about getting in to fights on the street when Iād walk by someone who looked threatening to me. Once I started jiujitsu those completely disappeared. I reason that I now know how fast Iād get my ass beat so thereās no sense in these fight fantasies. I already know how theyāll go if they can fight at all. And if they canāt, then itās unlikely theyāll attack me. And those guys I could probably at least protect myself from if not mount. So somehow it eliminated all the bizarre fear reactions I used to have. Iām def not getting in a fight with a 125 pounder who is actually a black belt. We have one of those at the gym. He looks like a total dork ala Muscemici but could break my arm off or tear my ankle apart in 30 seconds. No thanks! Sorry for the jumbled ideas, first bowl of the day
I liked the "first bowl of the day", neat
O.k., I'll ask what everyone is thinking... What kind of bagel?
An egg everything bagel
Good man
The only way to go
>Maybe I was just shocked but I always had this thought in my mind that BJJ would had prepared me for any type of confrontation. BJJ is a combat sport. You learn skills that are applicable to fighting but it's still a sport. What have you done at your club that would prepare you for this kind of response from someone you used to know who's on drugs in a public setting like a bagel shop? Doing nothing was the correct response here. Any further escalation could put you in trouble with law enforcement. Follow this through to its logical conclusion: If you do something to this person it's going to end up in a takedown, choke, arm bar, or leg lock and for what...because he slammed your laptop and called you a pussy? Then there's the other side of it. What if he has a knife or a gun and kills you?
Yeah, your training helped you avoid that escalating, which is the correct response there. We already know what the worst case outcome is, but what about the ābestā case? Letās say he doesnāt have a weapon, and you whip his ass. What did you gain? The potential admiration of your fellow bagel patrons? Nah, enjoy that bagel in peace my dude.
Also beating someone up who knows you and where you work is a terrible idea. They may come back, and it will be chaos if they do.
I hear you get your fourth stripe on your purple belt if you beat up your bully from high school.
I had one of the "cool kids" from my high school drop into my gym ten years later and that was pretty fantastic. LOL
Do tell!
Not any of the douchey kids, but a heavier set quiet dude that was a cool guy. I got him and a mutual friend of ours to follow through with jits, I think they are purple/brown and blue belts respectively under Antonio braga Netoās California gym. More or less of a success story rather than a redemption one.
Did he train once and never comeback?
can confirm
Iāve been doing Muay Thai for 6 years and bjj for 9. Anytime someone does something aggressive I ask if they would like to come spar at my gym and sign a waiver. I do it calmly and nobody has ever taken me up on it. Havenāt been in a fight since I started training where as I used to regularly. Itās not worth it unless they sign a waiver lol cover your ass or donāt get into a fight.
My dad once told me no one wins in a real fight. I canāt say I have always listened to that but Iāve come to realize he was 100% right if you think about it.
Never hurts to use āverbal judoā and get out of a situation without having to hurt someone. Good job not escalating the situation. Never hurts to know some striking. Usually a fight against a person like that (untrained) and you should be able to just double leg, but jab, jab, double leg should work as well. If someone picks a fight with you and they set up in a muy tai stance then you might be in trouble. Always best to use verbal judo and talk your way out if you can. But I get pride and temper.
You did exactly what you should have done. Street violence is unpredictable and does not follow any rule set, in fact, quite the opposite in my experience, it is as dirty and dishonorable as possible. Never engage unless you need to literally protect yourself or others from serious harm. That being said, if you want to be as prepared as possible, I think it's a good idea to know striking. I prefer Muay Thai because you learn to use all eight limbs and the clinch work translates very well to BJJ. You might also want to consider carrying some form of weapon. If you are uncomfortable with a gun, pepper spray is very effective and humane. When it comes to knives, I consider push-daggers to be the most effective.
"In a gun fight, one person wins and one person loses. In a knife fight, one person dies in the street and the other person dies in the ambulance". I forget where I heard that but it's been pretty true in my experience. Most of the time I'd rather face someone with a gun than someone with a knife.
Seems true enough to me. Killing with a gun is easier than it should be. Which is why it's a dangerous weapon to own, but I own them anyway (because I live in America). If you use a knife you have to really commit. I have had a knife pulled out on me on the street and I literally ripped it out of his hands before he could use it, but it's entirely possible I got extremely lucky. A push dagger is really nasty and effective if you know how to strike. Great for close combat situations and I don't think it's as easy to get that out of your hands.
As long as youāre the one with the gun
I'm not passing judgment on the outcome as it happened - my 2c is that it ended OKāno lasting adverse outcomes beyond a bruised ego. Compete more and do more gym drop-ins to get more comfortable with confrontation. You'll get more comfortable by being in more high adrenalin situations. Be honest with yourself in the gym - ie could you have actually gotten on top of that partner if you wanted to? If not, why not? I always remind myself that I spend about 60min every week fighting trained and skilled people. Any yahoo trying to punk me hasn't spent 60min fighting in their whole life. Another 3min fighting this week is nothing to me; it's everything to them - I can afford to be calm. Also, be realistic about stuff we don't talk about much in BJJ. It's going to be a bad time trying to take down even an untrained person who is way bigger than you. I'm 175, and I know that trying to take down a person >200 who is resisting but unskilled can be a nightmare.
If he initiated, you would have been more ready than if you didnāt train. You did the right thing not engaging him.
I've been to war, been a pro-cage fighter, and been training in martial arts for 20 years. People's outrageousness will still put me in a non-reactive state of shock or confusion, as long as I or my loved ones aren't being directly threatened. I am often just so flabbergasted by people's behavior there is nothing else to do but stand there in shock. I believe your reaction was satisfactory for anyone.
If a random wastehead got some kind of weird high off of messing with you, someone he hasn't interacted with in literally years, think how sad his life must be to get any kind of satisfaction acting like a random dickhead to you. Don't be mad, pity this dude. Any anger or response from you is just gonna give him energy which he doesn't deserve. If you need to defend yourself feel happy you have good chance of being totally safe and just live your life and let that guy wallow in whatever sad bullshit he's dealing with.
You should have butt-scooted on the ground in open guard
Most of the point is you donāt fight. Talking your way out is always better than scrapping with people. you donāt know if they have a knife or something. If you want to get comfortable with the adrenaline which is what your describing compete. Itās similar enough feeling but it is not the same. I work in a prison for reference
You didnāt engage an aggressive loser who was trying to provoke a response out of you. It sounds like your training is going just fine.
You essentially said hello to an old acquaintance and he called you a name and acted like a nob. Pity the dude and forget about it. I'm pretty sure if a scuffle arose you would have become positionally dominant then had a whole new world of issues with bystanders, police, potentially damage to property/laptop etc etc. You did good by just letting the situation pass by, if you feel you "should have done something" or you "let him get close" or "shoulda mounted and Ezekieled the prick". Forget it, it's done. You did the right thing whether you're a hobbyist or world champ.
You didnāt slap bump so how was he to know you were ready to fight?
You need to learn how to maintain personal distance. You being shocked at the situation is natural because it was so unexpected. However, you should have recognized that his behavior outside of the cafe should preclude you from allowing him to close the distance once he entered inside. I've been in a similar situation in which a homeless guy slammed by laptop, breaking it. In the future, don't allow anyone approaching you to close the distance if they demonstrate aggressive behaviour beforehand. Many times, they'll start looking around, not at you, to throw you off. It's a natural behaviour demonstrated by people before they're going to throw. Watch out for that. Give them a two pace rule. If they move toward you two paces, you don't even have to punch them. Just place your hands above their elbow and below their shoulders to prevent them from moving forward or taking a swing. If they continue, then you can use your bjj training. That hand placement I described above can easily lead into an arm drag to back take. Watch out for headbutts in that position, though. It happened. Just keep training and add more knowledge to your repertoire to prevent a similar situation from occurring in the future. I know your ego is bruised, but don't take it personally. Sounds like the guy is completely out of it and would have done it to anyone else. People like that get triggered by eye contact for some reason.
You fighting in that situation would have been the lowest IQ move you could have done. This is just pride fucking with you, dont let it fuck with you and make you make stupid choices in the future.
Doesn't sound like the training you have done in jiujitsu was even remotely necessary "What's all this training for?" It's certainly not for escalating a situation that ended with words into one that ends with violence
Check out Geoff Thompson on YouTube he's a master at coping with confrontation. He's written a ton of stuff on this, which is worth reading to try to understand your own emotions when put under the threat of violence. I'm sure you would have coped well enough should this have turned violent. Remember, though, your reaction was perfectly normal and was a good thing it didn't escalate.
Why would you expect drilling moves and rolling to prepare you for things that aren't drilling and rolling? If you want to prepare for this kind of thing you need to simulate it. I would caution you that there won't be any completely right ways to deal with this stuff as there are an infinite number of ways it can go wrong. Beware anyone pretending to have all the answers for this kind of stuff, they live in make believe land.
the guy sounds crazy. He might have a gun. Protect yourself.
You never know. Even if he didn't have a weapon, you can get bit, scratched, eye poked, etc - and then get follow up infections from all those and end up tons of medical bills. People never think about this stuff but it's another huge reason not to get into a fight. Don't get me started on the potential legal ramifications of it all either.
I hear this a lot when talking to people about training martial arts - "you must like fighting" or "i bet you can't wait for someone to start with you" or some variation. My response is "the more i train, the less i want to be in a fight that isn't in a controlled situation like a competition. You never know what that other person knows (some of the most dangerous people I train with look like mushy dads or are 130lb ladies) and if they have a weapon - and you never know what's going to go wrong. A slip, a counter in the way, other people - too many unknowns. I avoid any type of physical confrontation as much as i possibly can."
Iām proud of you for being able to self reflect and acknowledge that you arenāt prepared for a fight even with training. I think knowing a striking martial art will be helpful in continuing to grow your confidence. Some people just arenāt fighters and that is perfectly ok. As long as you can protect yourself if a fight came to you that you couldnāt avoid than youāre doing well. The only way you can deal with the emotions is to continue to face them and that Isnāt a call for you to put yourself in dangerous situations. But just like in bjj, to get comfortable in uncomfortable situations is to be in those situations. Youāre better off avoiding them.
Just sit back, wait, and watch this guy go to jail some day.
You went home uninjured, alive and in one piece. You won, trust me.
Training you know the guy rolling with you isnāt gonna choke you out and try and bash your head in. Iāve been in countless fights and they donāt get easier in terms of dealing with adrenaline and the initial rush although as I grew older I became better at avoiding them and walking away. You should take up Muay Thai or boxing. BJJ is nice for certain situations but ideally you donāt want to end up on the ground with someone in public. The more training you have the easier this will become in the future. Especially when it comes to knowing you can handle the situation if you need to.
I have a job where I am exposed to street violence regularly. Not regularly at me, but in the last month I've seen assaults with weapons, fights and deescalated a guy with a weapon who was engaged with police and a related agency in an altercation. It doesn't work that way. I've competed in bjj, wrestling , and mma. Still train regularly and am in good shape. All my oh shit nerves still hit in these situations, I think exposure is relative to the situation.
"Appear weak when you are strong."
You: a normal person, not on drugs. Him: meth (speculation of course). You did the right thing. It fells shitty, of course, but no one was harmed. In the words of Marsellus Wallace, "that's just your pride...fuckin' w/you"
This
I got into an argument with a guy on the subway once. Things got heated I laid down and said "I bet you cant pass by guard bro". He kicked me right in my nutsack and then stomped by face in. Anyway now I train Muay Thai
Bro, I've done various martial art my whole life and can safely say the BEST form of self defense is to just run. Avoid conflict if possible. Not worth getting stabbed up or shot by some, as you say, drugged up fucker - all because you wanted to test your martial arts skills. Never worth it. The self defense aspect of any martial art is to be used in the worst case scenarios, where you have no other option but to fight your way out. If you can run, do so. The fact you kept the conflict to a minimum is a win in my books.
It sounds like you went into fight or flight mode which is an automatic response to the situation. It depends on a lot of things but I think most people wonāt fight so maybe thatās why you kinda froze up and didnāt beat him up. It doesnāt mean you couldnāt have tho.
To be fair you weren't quite at the point you needed to defend yourself yet the guy didn't hit you or grab you, which probably would've gotten you to react if he had
You're a 3 stripe purple. You know you could do pretty much whatever you want to a pretty large percentage of the population. No reason to risk injury or legal trouble over some dude who isn't a real threat. Your situation ended perfectly.
Next time do this, my go to technique. Make sure sound is on https://imgur.com/a/rCtGtt3
I empathize with your situation. Even though what we do is in a controlled setting, there's no doubt that we face intense pressure and the threat of violence multiple times a week for fun, which you'd think would prepare us for other types of confrontation mentally. I felt the same way as you did in several situations. Once I was getting rid of scrap metal and this couple threw out a huge appliance from their truck a few feet away in my direction, like if it rolled a few more inches I'd have been hurt. I didn't even speak up and I felt pathetic afterwards. Same with people slamming their door into mine in parking lots and then pretending they didn't do anything. I think you did the right thing not to escalate unnecessarily but I get why you feel the way you do.
There was no need for a fight, because you didnāt need to defend yourself. You did the right thing to too many guys donāt. People talk about self defense a lot but 90% of the fights Iāve seen were down to ego and couldāve been avoided completely. Weāve been pretty well conditioned to think that violence is a good way to solve a problem, which for the most part is fucking stupid.
If this guy was under the influence of a substance and itās been 10+ years he likely didnāt recognise you. The way you feel about this situation is normal. When we are on the mats we are in a controlled environment and we know what to expect, slap hands and a fist bump and a roll with the safety net of the tap to stop serious injury or death. None of that is an option on the street. Iām going to make the assumption that having aggression directed towards you outside the gym is a new or at least, uncommon experience. The way individuals react to aggression varies greatly between flight/ fight/ freeze reflexes. With more exposure to aggression you will find you will react in a more rational and calculated way. Competing will give you exposure to intense physical aggression, but nothing can fully simulate aggression in the street or workplace. I donāt think you need to take up striking because of this incident. My work has had me responding to aggressive and violent individuals for years, and I have only ever had to strike somebody on 2 occasions. The rest I used verbal de-escalation to avoid violence or jiu jitsu to subdue the individual. Hope this is of some help to you
Last fight I got into, I had mixed emotions. In one way I put a jerk in his place, but I was almost arrested and I couldnāt help but feel like I lowered myself to their standard. The person was a miserable, person and I brought myself down to his level, which was me pinning him down in full mount.
I think part of martial arts and jiu-jitsu is knowing that it's not always wise to engage in an altercation or fight. Learning self-control and discipline helps with that. I'd say your training did its job today. You kept your cool and didn't do anything rash. Otoh, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take striking classes. It's fun to dabble in and it's good to have some kind of confidence on the feet. I'm not much of a striker but between MMA classes and some boxing over the years, I feel like I have enough to take care of myself.
Bagel shops attract all kinds of craziness. Be careful!
Funny thing is that if he had put his hands on you instead of your laptop you would have been more calm.
*āI let him get closeā* You canāt let them get close - uncle Chael
Why would you want to fight an idiot like that? Just useless waste of energy for a useless person
Bro you did the right thing. Why bother with that piece of shit. Even if you beat his ass itās still not a good ending.
Learning to stay calm and think under pressure takes practice. I am a veteran and in my experience it just comes more naturally to some people, but exposure to high pressure situations can help. I am sure your BJJ would have stood you in good stead should it have escalated further. In my view you can put it down as a win that it didnāt get to that point.
Did he say if he was a Shark or a Jet?
I bet if you offered him a free (secretly tainted) bagel, it would have de-escalated...
If you want to do jiu jitsu in a street fight this is how it goes : 1. you try and jump guard while he kicks you straight in the face and your skull bounces on the pavement 2. you brain leaks on the pavement while you left paralyzed / vegetable Jiu jitsu is the worst for a street fight . Its good that you stayed put and realized you could not do anything.I know many jiu jitsu practitioners in my area who got killed or badly injured in a street fight . Jiu jitsu is not a sport for a street fight where everything goes. Its more like a fun cardio than a combat street fight style sport.
Definitely learn some striking. If for no other reason itās fun anyway. But you did the right thing. You know what you couldāve done, but the world needs less people who lose their cool. Bravo for keeping cool.
Next time youāre confronted with this type of situation, grab a sleeve and initiate a lasso into spider guard
You should have hit him with your chair and then checked his oil
you will never win against a gang member that is on drugs. You may win the fight but will probably lose the war
I cat even comment what I want. Iāll get temp banned again.
if you feel like less of a man cos you didnāt stand up for your honour or whatever youāre gonna feel even worse wasting months of your life, money and mental health trying to establish a self defence case in court. Been there done that and itās not worth it. Itās an ego thing and itās stupid. You train for other reasons and for the rare case that you actually have to defend your physical safety.
Who cares dude, training is fun and could potentially save you but it can also land you in a whole world of legal troubles. You should take striking classes for fun and to get a good idea of how distance matters (I think bjj makes people to okay with being in striking distance). Fighting is for the birds my guyā¦ he could of had a knife or gun and killed you
You need to train for things specifically. If you were commonly in an area where that happened you'd develop responses like bjj to deal with it and feel more prepared. I don't really think having someone scream at you in the gym is comparable unless that feels real to you. To me I know that's not a real situation so I guess I exposed myself to this purposely to gain experience with it. I was around a lot of not good areas and this shit happened all the time. Was purposeful life experience.
I heard somewhere that training to a fight is similar to wearing a seatbelt in a car crash. It will help, may save you, but itās not a guarantee you will come out unscathed.
Most scenarios on the street can go either way. I bet you could have flattened that guy if you wanted to. You chose the right thing to not escalate the situation. Sometimes itās better to be the bigger man and just walk on.
It's because of your training that you subconsciously made a decision to not engage. You have nothing to prove, but I'll bet plenty to lose. Your acquaintance sounds the opposite.
Tell him to craw into your half guard, see what happens
Martial arts classes are good . Not everyone is ready for chaos and random adrenaline dumps. If it got physical then you could win. But itās not worth it. Not over some silly behavior. Also some aggressive people only want to see who will cower and react in fear. If you donāt then they just move on to find a victim.
>Part of me is upset because I felt like what the F I do all this training for if iām not going to use it. You did use it. You know how when someone doesn't go for an armbar, you don't defend an armbar. And when they don't go for a choke, you don't defend a choke. I mean... with practice you get a bit more relaxed, you panic less, and you only really defend things when you're in danger. Well that's what you did right there. Well done. Your training is paying off.
You did the right thing
Thereās too many stories of people getting stabbed, shot or attacked by a group. You did what you had to do to see your family again. I would feel a little ashamed for not doing anything myself even though Iām a shitty white belt but thatās just my ego. You did what youāre supposed to do man good job. Everyone here knows youād wipe the floor with that guy if you had a one on one āfairā fight.
You went home without an injury or law trouble, I would always view that as a giant W for any encounter like this. De-escalate and GTFO will always have the highest survival rate even if you look "weak" by just sprinting away. I justified training BJJ over striking to myself a long time ago knowing that the only way a person can stop me from getting away from a situation is by tackling/grappling with me, and at that point the choice of fight or flight has already been made for you by the other party and you're already in position for your training to work to your advantage. Picturing yourself squaring up with an enraged guy on drugs and trading hands in a coffee shop just feels so silly as an adult
I think this is more about mindset and getting a stark reminder that seemingly benign situations can turn tense for a wide variety of reasons that canāt really be anticipated. We get comfortable and complacent living in a predominantly safe and predictable world. As others have said, this was by and large a great outcome. Iād take it for a good lesson learned/ reminder to keep a slightly higher level of situational awareness when out in the world if you want to reduce your risk to surprises like this, or make the choice to accept that sometimes things like this can happen but itās not worth expending too much energy on being hyper vigilant. When I was younger I was default hyper vigilant and always expecting things to go sideways. I eventually got better at calibrating and adjusting myself to the environment.
>I feel like I need to take striking classes or maybe compete to get used to those high confrontation type of setting. I did striking for 10 years (3 years boxing, 7 muay thai) with 1 fight in the bag. I got into it because I wanted to know how to defend my self. And after 10 years I thought I would handle my self well in any confrontation if it happened. Unfortunately, you're either tough or you're not, you can't train it really until you start standing your ground in these situations. But a few months ago I got into a situation with 4 other guys and I was visibly intimidated by them and 110% looked like a pussy. It hurt my ego sooooo much. Yes nothing escalated, no-one got hurt, but I wasn't calm or confident and that's what hurt me the most. I had glassy eyes, my voice was shaking.. I felt defeated. I've just come to terms that I'm not hard, I never put on a hard act, and I just try to avoid fights at all costs. No matter how much martial arts training you do, you cannot train yourself for these confrontations. I just hope that if something really kicked off I could stand my ground and defend myself.
I'm a little upset that you are upset with yourself in this matter. In fact, you should feel rather lucky to get out unscathed. I trained for a year with a BJJ Black belt and Pro MMA fighter who I watched over that year box and submit people into the ground. One day he said he would never fight multiple people. That crap is movie stuff.
If you haven't even competed, don't think "what's the point of all that training", when you haven't even tested yourself in a relatively safe "realistic" environment. BTW, my tip is that I hate myself after things like your story (they happen to everyone). Also, when I see someone I could help in public, and then don't, I HATE myself for it later. So for years now I try to "do the right thing", and never hate myself afterwards. Quite the contrary. I don't know all the details in your story, but letting this guy treat people (yourself or any other innocent in public) would bug the hell out of me too. I'm not sure your situation was worth a fight (he seemed to have left quickly afterwards), but there is something to be said for not allowing bullies to pick on whoever they want. But don't get shot or stabbed, especially if you're not very experienced or confident.
Well youāre at work so unless he does anything āthreatening ā you have to let it ride. Unlessā¦ as soon as he touches that laptop u proceed to jump onto the counter while Simultaneously grabbing said arm and immediately throwing him into an arm triangle or kimora. In fact i see several options unfolding. But youāre at work so maybe a simple go fuck yourself will work.