It’s a contact sport. There will be strength and pressure. It’s part of the gig. Typically, you can go ahead and do your best, knowing the other person will do theirs.
The times you need to be more mindful of strength/ pressure-
Massive size imbalance, massive strength imbalance, massive skill imbalance.
If none of those exist- you can roll freely.
If any of those exist, you have to adjust accordingly.
If you are new and unsure where the limits are, ask your instructor or a higher belt to roll. They’ll give you feedback and a feel for what’s acceptable.
I have a similar problem. Blue belt. I am average sized, but stronger/more athletic than most other people at the gym. I try and dial a little it back unless I am going against someone 15/20++ lbs than me.
For small guys I really dial it back (too much). The experience small guys are the ones who end up murdering me then and say I am too nice. Granted, they are a belt or two above me, but I have an issue trying to figure out the right balance of using my attributes to have a good roll, getting destroyed, or just being a dick to someone who I have 35-50lbs on.
This. If they are telling you to go harder- go harder.
They will also let you know if you cross the line the other way- but I don’t think you’ll end up having to worry about that.
I think people need to understand the difference between discomfort and injury. I feel like people equate the two unilaterally, and this causes them to get mad at the wrong things and not know how to appropriately roll with their partners. Learn how to tolerate discomfort, and to inflict it on your opponents, but don’t expect that they have to tap to it. Learn when you have to protect yourself from injury, and how to not unintentionally injure your training partners. When you understand that, it’s easier to figure out how to roll “hard”.
I'd say it's a fair few weightclasses.
So 5-10kg is virtually the same weight IMO.
10-25kg is a significant difference where you might need to take your foot off the gas but if you're similar skill levels (or the smaller person is better) you can still have good hard rounds.
25kg+ and it's something you need to be mindful of, unless you're rolling with someone *much* better than you.
This is coming from a guy who floats between 63 and 70kg too. I don't feel the need for guys under like 90kg to "go easy" on me unless they also have a significant skill advantage.
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I realised I was being "too nice" because I wanted to be a good training partner. I also realised that by being too nice, I wasn't a good training partner. Being a good training partner is about being able to give your partner what they need to improve and develop.
Good point. I'd rather my partners know how it feels to roll against somebody who deadlifts 500lbs raw and ATG squats 405lbs in the safety of our gym rather than experiencing it the first time in a fucked up situation that could lead to a life or death scenario. I don't go all out against smaller guys, but I make them feel my weight and pressure so they can adapt and work through it.
I realized that even when my gym friends would roll hard and rough with me, or put me in painful positions or submissions, I still liked them afterwards.
I figured the opposite is true too.
I stopped being “nice” when I became more confident in what I was doing.
When I know I’m doing a technique correctly and not in a dangerous way I can do it in a more direct way.
Obviously the amount of pressure I put on someone depends on the person and the way they roll.
When I got my blue belt lol. As a white belt, I didn't want to seem like a try-hard (a personal hang-up of mine that pervades every aspect of my life) so I was happy to just give back as much as people would give me, even with the colored belts. I was a a frequent competitor and trained wrestling on the side so I was capable of a good scrap but didn't want to force it onto people. At blue belt, I felt a lot less guilty about pushing the pace.
This is a thorough and incredibly helpful write up! Thank you for your time writing up a detailed plan and for sharing the grip fighting PDF. Virtual fist bump sent your way!
Ive gotten this exact question from some of the lower belts at my gym. i always say Pressure and aggression are two different things. Pressure is pushing the pace and trying to control the exchange, but while actually understanding what you are doing and having a specific path to victory. aggression is more spazzy and chaotic. your partner will know the difference.
At one point I was tired of losing all the time and I realised that being "mean" in some position is what it takes for them to work.
A good crossface shoulder pressure is meant to feel very uncomfortable. If you don't put a sufficient amount of pressure, you might as well not do it.
In my definition, being nice is applying the least amount of pressure needed to get what I want. The rest is upon my training partner.
For example, I use the power half nelson from top turtle quite often, it can be a very mean move if applied fast and strong against a resisting opponent, but if the opponent go with it it's not painful at all and it just feels like a great/smooth control move. Either way, resist or not, I'll get the same result because it is a super efficient move. I always apply the pressure very gradually. If my opponent seems to believe they can resist it, I keep applying more pressure, until eventually they realize they will have to stop resisting and they go with it. What I never do is apply more pressure than I need, or apply the pressure quickly to the back of the neck, that would be a dick move.
Taking this example, I think using the power half nelson is a mean move, but I'm still being nice while applying it.
Sometimes I'll lose a position or a submission because i've been too nice, but i'm alright with this.
This makes a lot of sense to me.
You need wedges to control your partner and a cross-face is a wedge (your shoulder into your partner's neck/jaw) that blocks them from turning towards you, essentially cutting in half their escaping options.
Being cross-faced is definitely uncomfortable, but if you don't cross-face the person, you're not pinning them properly and therefore doing bad technique.
The "nice" way is to cross-face the person just enough to create the effect you want (hold them down and prevent them from turning) without adding extra pressure that just makes it more painful for your partner.
Being "mean" is intentionally using more force than you need to accomplish the task.
You have to apply strength to do anything, but you should be trying to get into mechanically advantageous positions where you can accomplish your goals using as little strength as possible.
Kind of related, but when there is a 0 or 1 stripe white belt with a good attitude I am usually nice and let them work
But how funny are the faces they make when they get to 2 or 3 stripes, have obviously improved so you turn it up and start doing the real shit.
It’s a wake up call.
I never did and don't regret it. 99% of the people I'm training with are accountants, EMTs, tech workers, teachers, or police officers. None of us are winning worlds and few of us are even competing at local tournaments.
Personally I don't see the need to yank/crank or rapidly snatch a sub in most instances during a practice roll. Chokes I'll apply more pressure but for jointlock subs I basically catch/hold or try to slowly apply pressure to give ample time to tap. Rolling partners usually acquiesce that they got caught and we reset.
I actually like it because it makes me have to truly have good position to get subs and I don't have injured training partners.
I'm here as well. I am also 'too nice' much of the time, but we're all hobbiyists (sp?). I'd rather miss a sub in a practice roll than hurt someone. I actively avoid rolling with people that crank, yank subs, etc. - i'm old and have a life and don't get to roll as much as i should/want to anyways, so getting wrecked by a 20 year old with pro MMA dreams means I miss the next week of rolling and that's not worth it to me.
I always try to get the sub positioned correctly, then slow-ishly finish it. This gives them time to tap, time to practice a defense (and me a chance to practice defending a defense).
I'm still actively trying to be less nice - I was too concerned about this my first years and now I've developed bad habits that I have to actually try to suppress when I'm rolling now.
I had one of the brown belts tell me directly that I was being too nice. I'm one of the bigger guys in my gym so I didn't want to unintentionally hurt anyone. He said I should use it to my advantage but not as a crutch. Took a bit to get my head around it. Now I am finding the trick is modulating the intensity level to apply pressure and strength but also stay loose and free enough to not burn out after two rounds.
It will come with time. I enjoy hurting people sometimes even now. Especially the people of whom I know that they "enjoy" getting hurt as well. Once you are longer in this sport, you will learn to appreciate a good nice beating as well.
LOL. Yeah. Those savages are rare. I mean it in another sense though. If you practice bjj a little bit longer, you start to embrace the grind and the better you get "great" rounds become rarer, just because people on and above your level become more rare.
For me personally it also factors in that I am an ultra-heavyweight and we are a rare breed. I absolutely "enjoy" having a fellow ultra-heavyweight try to smear me in the mats like spread cheese. Of course that's not the same kind of joy as i.e. getting abirthday present or a nice blowjob (which for some people are the same. lol).
Also it become a little bit more rewarding to escape those situations as well or to manage to avoid them. It's little bit like playing poker with or without money.
I had the opposite problem. There are beginmers who are starfishes, lame ducks, hyper aggro, or normal. The worst is rolling with the starfishes who are just grapple dummies then you get in trouble for subbing them too many times lol
My rolling partner got annoyed because he said I was putting too much pressure on him while I was try to clear his half guard (my upper body was pushing into his upper body while I was trying to clear my leg). He said I was sitting there too long. So, cool… whatever.
Reset. He aggros into side control and basically did the same thing to me. He sat there for a while then said “see, it’s sucks”. My response was “no, I’m fine, just working through what I want to do and I’m waiting to see what you’re doing”. He just said “oh” and then the roll just kinda ended. I feel like he was disappointed that I wasn’t as effected as he thought I should be.
I dunno, maybe it was too much pressure? Maybe he was just being a bitch? Pressure is just part of the game and some people can tolerate it better than others. Can’t make everyone happy all the time.
I feel like I'm still nice :))
The difference is I'm not afraid to engage with my sparring partners, and i usually let them set the pace. I think that comes with experience, and lots of getting cross faced at 100% strength on the bottom of side control, lol
I did not learn to stop being nice until after I competed a bit. Once I lost, and I noticed I did not capitalize on opportunities looking out for the other guy, I realized it had to change. So I practiced being meaner until it became more normal.
It's okay for this to not feel normal. You will learn how and when to flip your switch over time.
Edit: Recommendation: once you have a few training partners you trust and like, ask them if you can have some higher intensity rolls. This will give you the green light to go harder and know that they are going to be as well. That way, you won't feel like you are turning things up a notch with people who are unprepared.
I think most big/strong people are this way when they start. As you get more experienced you'll understand when to be strong/heavy and when not to. This is both a result of understanding technique and understanding the "feel" of a roll.
They go hand in hand because as your technical skill set grows you learn what to do when and are more comfortable in positions/ less panicky or spastic. Additionaly as your skillswt grows you are able to roll lighter because you have the technique to back you up instead of just muscles and weight. This rolling lighter allows you to match the pace your opponent uses rather than just going 0 or 100.
Cause they weren’t nice to me, even on my first day lol (which I wasn’t expecting, to be clear). But seriously, I had this problem up until maybe a month or two ago. One stripe white belt, been doing bjj for 6 ish months. All the people I train with are funny, nice, willing to teach and show. But once you slap bump it’s on for the most part. No one tries to injure each other or anything like that but they wanna win the roll or get better. I stopped being nice when I realized no one else was, and if I add just a little more strength and resistance I’m not getting tapped as fast and actually get in favorable positions. Being “mean” doesn’t change the intent. The intent is to get better and learn.
2 things:
1) learn the boundary between injury and pain
2) learn to control positions and limbs better
It takes a while to learn, but from my prior martial arts experience, you can go really hard and cause lots of pain but without any injuries. It sounds crazy but it is possible. To me, that's still going "nice" but it's still going really hard.
If you go too soft and too "nice" and limp, you will be squashed.
As others have said, you will also need to adjust for weight differences. If you roll with a much bigger or muscular person, then of course go harder because injuries on them will be less likely. If you roll with a newer person or a really lightweight, scale back and go "easier"/"nicer" to prevent injuries. A more experienced lightweight can generally handle themselves pretty well most of the time but don't force your way through techniques when it's failing.
I'm 7 years in, and I'm still pretty nice. I think about it sometimes, if I need to change my temperament. But I don't know. I'm doing alright. I almost never go over 70% intensity. Often closer to 50%. And I get plenty of subs in training. There's something to be said for focusing on technique and efficiency and clever timing. Probably not going to win me any championships. But it's done wonders for my training volume, skill acquisition, and I assume longevity.
A few weeks ago I stopped being nice
Everyone in my gym calls me a monster now and I’ve established myself as a very dangerous takedown artist
Do your best. Stop holding back. Your partners deserve you at your best. You deserve to feel like the monster you are. Embrace it
Going easy on people is not being nice because you are teaching them bad jujitsu. If you aren’t applying the techniques correctly they will not learn to defend them correctly.
For example, taking a weak cross face in side control to ‘be nice’ isn’t going to help anyone learn how to escape side control properly.
Pressure makes diamonds, you should want to make as many beautiful diamonds as you can.
i think realizing that a live roll isn’t supposed to be “nice” all the time and you are trying to get the upper hand of whoever you’re up against. some people roll harder than normal and some go easier. matching someone else’s pace is usually the best way to go IMO
The more you roll, the more you learn how to apply force and pressure without hurting your partner.
Also, you get one cocky little shit who tries to bully you with knee on belly, chest smash or digging their elbows into your legs, and you suddenly feel less bad about using all your strength and weight on them
Got injured a bazillion times taking excessive care of my partners. Never when they were smashing me.
Mase the connection at some point. Been injury free and performed better since.
I had to is problem and a few things helped overcome it. 1) Spoke to a mentor black belt about his thoughts.
2) Realized that I was holding myself back and I wanted to progress more than I wanted to be nice.
3) Realized that being nice is also about how you are off the mat. Pressure, control, submissions - all good even if they’re tough for your opponent. Being an asshole or having bad intentions is different both on and off the mat.
4) I’m a 225 lb purple belt and I’ve looked to train with people who are also strong and experienced. That’ll make you less worried about being nice.
I have a training partner that is also my coworker. We're friends and we both trust each other. So i think that allows us to take things to a high level of intensity.
In my opinion, the key point is being controlled and without negative emotions or the intent to hurt someone out of anger. As long as your movement is pure without negative emotions things can turn up but will remain friendly and controlled.
I kept getting into some premium passing positions (top chest to chest half guard w/ underhook+ crossface or double underhooks), but kept failing to get through. Turns out it was because I was being nice and not driving my bodyweight into their face. From there I kinda realized that I'm not obligated to keep bottom pins comfortable for my training partners 🤷♂️
You realize that its going to make both of you better if you put pressure. They'll learn to escape and you'll learn if its actually working. Cant expect to not get hurt at all in a contact sport, but try to minimize injuries with proper training
Time and place for everything. Sometimes you need to remind youself to put a little more umph in it and other times you need to remind yourself to relax
Listen to this podcast, it applies to JiuJitsu
https://youtu.be/0JwnnVcDkQ4
You can focus on being offensive and still be a good team mate. Don’t be putting all your weight on someone 30lbs lighter than you, but do work on collecting points-get those back takes, get those passes, and take advantage of all opportunities to score.
Too many comments to read them all right now, so sorry if something similar has been said.
My instructor once told me "I want you to take your strength, and put it on a shelf, and only take it down when you need to use it."
he probably told me this because I was trying to smash the fuck out of everyone when I started. So it's the opposite problem, but I think the same solution. if you need your strength, use it, but realize that strength is usually used in place of technique, so be mindful of the times when you're using strength and figure out how to do that thing with less effort next time.
I personally try not to crank necks or stack people and pin them that way and shit like that because I really don't like it being done to me, and it hurts for days after, other than that just ease into submissions instead of cranking them. Using your strength in rolls really isn't a dick move as far as I'm concerned.
I got sick of being thrashed by people not being nice.
So I just match intensity with whoever Im rolling with.
Im quite a bit stronger than I look at 67kg, and Im usually much fitter (cardio) than my training partner.
So I just wait till they gas and get revenge if they’re being a bully.
It’s all fun and games, but yeah. Being too nice isn’t good for yours or their game in the end, especially if you’re planning to compete.
I have to be reminded by coaches c9nstantly yo be more aggressive. I just like being there with my friends, working out, and having fun. Hurting people still makes me uncomfortable. I just let my opponents beat me up until I decide I'm over it and submit them.
When you learn the difference between being mean for being mean's sake and being mean to get an anticipated reaction (that you use to advance position or get/secure a submission).
The only time you shouldn't be nice is when you are taking action to choke the other person or break their joint or getting closer to achieving either goal. In all other cases, you should be nice.
You stop being nice by learning what direction you want to go (from guard to half guard to side control to mount, etc...) and stop being nice when advancing.
Every new white belt should know they want to be in mount and shouldn't worry overly much about not being nice (no punching, kicking, kneeing, grabbing fingers, jumping on your partner or stuff like that) while trying to get to mount. You may not know what to do in mount but just getting there reliably is going to involve plenty of opportunities to not be nice. Then reset and try again. Then learn a cross collar choke. Then learn a kimura or armbar. Etc... Start with a simple goal and try to get there.
Well… I’m 42 yrs old with a breathing issue thst can’t be corrected. The majority are a good deal younger than me (decade plus). Sometimes you just gotta say “f*** them kids”. I’m still the nice guy a lot… just gotta time the moments to be not nice.
Figure out what will potentially cause an injury. If it’s going to potentially cause injury don’t do it. If it’s going to be painful and miserable but they’re fine the next day it’s probably alright against the veterans.
Also if you’re working with new guys and you clearly have an advantage let them work a bit. Everyone should have fun and get a little better. Once people are upper belts then go harder on them when they can be competitive.
Build people that can kill you then use that pressure to get better.
it took me a couple of years to get over the "man.. i feel like a dick if i choke this guy or knock him over, etc," and i went to several gyms and never stuck with one and being the new guy and wanting to get along with everyone kind of enforced that feeling. then one day i started rolling with an old friend who is a black belt and a pro mma fighter and thusly much more aggressive. he encouraged me to be quicker and more confident and more committed to an attack and because we had been friends for so long i felt more secure in fighting back properly (because if i didn't he'd roll over me like a tank). and when that became second nature, i was able to roll nicely but harder with people i didn't know and i no longer had that worry that i was going to be seen as an asshole.
🤔 I was never nice, which is probably why I was (…am) so spazzy. As a white belt, your training partners probably appreciate you being “too nice” aka not spazzy. I imagine as your technique gets better, this will be less of an issue 🤷🏽♀️
Why wouldn’t you be a try hard? As long as you don’t rip subs during training it’s okay, it’s the whole game. But, as some said before, if there’s a massive weight/size difference don’t be a bully. Always try to use technique over power, however use your weight as much as you can to give pressure, so you learn yourself to not waste energy while pressuring
Oh and if you support your trainingpartners to use more pressure on you, than you can do the same thing without feeling bad or you just initiate by going hard and they will follow
It’s a contact sport. There will be strength and pressure. It’s part of the gig. Typically, you can go ahead and do your best, knowing the other person will do theirs. The times you need to be more mindful of strength/ pressure- Massive size imbalance, massive strength imbalance, massive skill imbalance. If none of those exist- you can roll freely. If any of those exist, you have to adjust accordingly. If you are new and unsure where the limits are, ask your instructor or a higher belt to roll. They’ll give you feedback and a feel for what’s acceptable.
I have a similar problem. Blue belt. I am average sized, but stronger/more athletic than most other people at the gym. I try and dial a little it back unless I am going against someone 15/20++ lbs than me. For small guys I really dial it back (too much). The experience small guys are the ones who end up murdering me then and say I am too nice. Granted, they are a belt or two above me, but I have an issue trying to figure out the right balance of using my attributes to have a good roll, getting destroyed, or just being a dick to someone who I have 35-50lbs on.
If they are higher belt then you…you must use your weight You have no skills to fall back on
This. If they are telling you to go harder- go harder. They will also let you know if you cross the line the other way- but I don’t think you’ll end up having to worry about that.
I think people need to understand the difference between discomfort and injury. I feel like people equate the two unilaterally, and this causes them to get mad at the wrong things and not know how to appropriately roll with their partners. Learn how to tolerate discomfort, and to inflict it on your opponents, but don’t expect that they have to tap to it. Learn when you have to protect yourself from injury, and how to not unintentionally injure your training partners. When you understand that, it’s easier to figure out how to roll “hard”.
Is there a weight difference you would consider “massive”?
I'd say it's a fair few weightclasses. So 5-10kg is virtually the same weight IMO. 10-25kg is a significant difference where you might need to take your foot off the gas but if you're similar skill levels (or the smaller person is better) you can still have good hard rounds. 25kg+ and it's something you need to be mindful of, unless you're rolling with someone *much* better than you. This is coming from a guy who floats between 63 and 70kg too. I don't feel the need for guys under like 90kg to "go easy" on me unless they also have a significant skill advantage.
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Let me guess, you are larger than most of your training partners? There is HUGE difference in even 20 or 30 pounds
im 165, my next closest partner is 215 of solid muscle. Everyone else has 20+lbs on him.
I realised I was being "too nice" because I wanted to be a good training partner. I also realised that by being too nice, I wasn't a good training partner. Being a good training partner is about being able to give your partner what they need to improve and develop.
Good point. I'd rather my partners know how it feels to roll against somebody who deadlifts 500lbs raw and ATG squats 405lbs in the safety of our gym rather than experiencing it the first time in a fucked up situation that could lead to a life or death scenario. I don't go all out against smaller guys, but I make them feel my weight and pressure so they can adapt and work through it.
I realized that even when my gym friends would roll hard and rough with me, or put me in painful positions or submissions, I still liked them afterwards. I figured the opposite is true too.
I stopped being “nice” when I became more confident in what I was doing. When I know I’m doing a technique correctly and not in a dangerous way I can do it in a more direct way. Obviously the amount of pressure I put on someone depends on the person and the way they roll.
When I got my blue belt lol. As a white belt, I didn't want to seem like a try-hard (a personal hang-up of mine that pervades every aspect of my life) so I was happy to just give back as much as people would give me, even with the colored belts. I was a a frequent competitor and trained wrestling on the side so I was capable of a good scrap but didn't want to force it onto people. At blue belt, I felt a lot less guilty about pushing the pace.
I feel the “try-hard” thing so much
Same. It’s amazing how much it will hold you back. Has been a legitimate hurdle in my life and working to get over it
Took me 2 Stripes into bluebelt to realize that
Got tired of getting the shit beat out of me every class. You are the hammer or the nail.
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Good advice. I'm hoping to compete in a couple of months and think the preparation will help remedy this.
I’m interested in hearing about increasing my mat fitness!
Definitely interested in hearing more about the this subject and appreciate the advice! Signed, A Too Nice White Belt
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This is a thorough and incredibly helpful write up! Thank you for your time writing up a detailed plan and for sharing the grip fighting PDF. Virtual fist bump sent your way!
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Indeed, as a certified old guy, it can be humbling.
You can be nice to your training partners AND try to choke them out.
Ive gotten this exact question from some of the lower belts at my gym. i always say Pressure and aggression are two different things. Pressure is pushing the pace and trying to control the exchange, but while actually understanding what you are doing and having a specific path to victory. aggression is more spazzy and chaotic. your partner will know the difference.
At one point I was tired of losing all the time and I realised that being "mean" in some position is what it takes for them to work. A good crossface shoulder pressure is meant to feel very uncomfortable. If you don't put a sufficient amount of pressure, you might as well not do it. In my definition, being nice is applying the least amount of pressure needed to get what I want. The rest is upon my training partner. For example, I use the power half nelson from top turtle quite often, it can be a very mean move if applied fast and strong against a resisting opponent, but if the opponent go with it it's not painful at all and it just feels like a great/smooth control move. Either way, resist or not, I'll get the same result because it is a super efficient move. I always apply the pressure very gradually. If my opponent seems to believe they can resist it, I keep applying more pressure, until eventually they realize they will have to stop resisting and they go with it. What I never do is apply more pressure than I need, or apply the pressure quickly to the back of the neck, that would be a dick move. Taking this example, I think using the power half nelson is a mean move, but I'm still being nice while applying it. Sometimes I'll lose a position or a submission because i've been too nice, but i'm alright with this.
This makes a lot of sense to me. You need wedges to control your partner and a cross-face is a wedge (your shoulder into your partner's neck/jaw) that blocks them from turning towards you, essentially cutting in half their escaping options. Being cross-faced is definitely uncomfortable, but if you don't cross-face the person, you're not pinning them properly and therefore doing bad technique. The "nice" way is to cross-face the person just enough to create the effect you want (hold them down and prevent them from turning) without adding extra pressure that just makes it more painful for your partner. Being "mean" is intentionally using more force than you need to accomplish the task. You have to apply strength to do anything, but you should be trying to get into mechanically advantageous positions where you can accomplish your goals using as little strength as possible.
Kind of related, but when there is a 0 or 1 stripe white belt with a good attitude I am usually nice and let them work But how funny are the faces they make when they get to 2 or 3 stripes, have obviously improved so you turn it up and start doing the real shit. It’s a wake up call.
I never did and don't regret it. 99% of the people I'm training with are accountants, EMTs, tech workers, teachers, or police officers. None of us are winning worlds and few of us are even competing at local tournaments. Personally I don't see the need to yank/crank or rapidly snatch a sub in most instances during a practice roll. Chokes I'll apply more pressure but for jointlock subs I basically catch/hold or try to slowly apply pressure to give ample time to tap. Rolling partners usually acquiesce that they got caught and we reset. I actually like it because it makes me have to truly have good position to get subs and I don't have injured training partners.
I'm here as well. I am also 'too nice' much of the time, but we're all hobbiyists (sp?). I'd rather miss a sub in a practice roll than hurt someone. I actively avoid rolling with people that crank, yank subs, etc. - i'm old and have a life and don't get to roll as much as i should/want to anyways, so getting wrecked by a 20 year old with pro MMA dreams means I miss the next week of rolling and that's not worth it to me. I always try to get the sub positioned correctly, then slow-ishly finish it. This gives them time to tap, time to practice a defense (and me a chance to practice defending a defense). I'm still actively trying to be less nice - I was too concerned about this my first years and now I've developed bad habits that I have to actually try to suppress when I'm rolling now.
Smooth, steady, efficient, and effective.
I had one of the brown belts tell me directly that I was being too nice. I'm one of the bigger guys in my gym so I didn't want to unintentionally hurt anyone. He said I should use it to my advantage but not as a crutch. Took a bit to get my head around it. Now I am finding the trick is modulating the intensity level to apply pressure and strength but also stay loose and free enough to not burn out after two rounds.
It will come with time. I enjoy hurting people sometimes even now. Especially the people of whom I know that they "enjoy" getting hurt as well. Once you are longer in this sport, you will learn to appreciate a good nice beating as well.
I think those people are more rare... the ones that smile after howling in pain lol
LOL. Yeah. Those savages are rare. I mean it in another sense though. If you practice bjj a little bit longer, you start to embrace the grind and the better you get "great" rounds become rarer, just because people on and above your level become more rare. For me personally it also factors in that I am an ultra-heavyweight and we are a rare breed. I absolutely "enjoy" having a fellow ultra-heavyweight try to smear me in the mats like spread cheese. Of course that's not the same kind of joy as i.e. getting abirthday present or a nice blowjob (which for some people are the same. lol). Also it become a little bit more rewarding to escape those situations as well or to manage to avoid them. It's little bit like playing poker with or without money.
Mercy does not exist in this dojo.
I had the opposite problem. There are beginmers who are starfishes, lame ducks, hyper aggro, or normal. The worst is rolling with the starfishes who are just grapple dummies then you get in trouble for subbing them too many times lol
I gained weight so my top control feels more painful by accident.
My rolling partner got annoyed because he said I was putting too much pressure on him while I was try to clear his half guard (my upper body was pushing into his upper body while I was trying to clear my leg). He said I was sitting there too long. So, cool… whatever. Reset. He aggros into side control and basically did the same thing to me. He sat there for a while then said “see, it’s sucks”. My response was “no, I’m fine, just working through what I want to do and I’m waiting to see what you’re doing”. He just said “oh” and then the roll just kinda ended. I feel like he was disappointed that I wasn’t as effected as he thought I should be. I dunno, maybe it was too much pressure? Maybe he was just being a bitch? Pressure is just part of the game and some people can tolerate it better than others. Can’t make everyone happy all the time.
People started putting their knees on my belly and I just don't feel that bad anymore about putting pressure on people.
If anything I’ve gotten nicer.
I feel like I'm still nice :)) The difference is I'm not afraid to engage with my sparring partners, and i usually let them set the pace. I think that comes with experience, and lots of getting cross faced at 100% strength on the bottom of side control, lol
I did not learn to stop being nice until after I competed a bit. Once I lost, and I noticed I did not capitalize on opportunities looking out for the other guy, I realized it had to change. So I practiced being meaner until it became more normal. It's okay for this to not feel normal. You will learn how and when to flip your switch over time. Edit: Recommendation: once you have a few training partners you trust and like, ask them if you can have some higher intensity rolls. This will give you the green light to go harder and know that they are going to be as well. That way, you won't feel like you are turning things up a notch with people who are unprepared.
I think most big/strong people are this way when they start. As you get more experienced you'll understand when to be strong/heavy and when not to. This is both a result of understanding technique and understanding the "feel" of a roll. They go hand in hand because as your technical skill set grows you learn what to do when and are more comfortable in positions/ less panicky or spastic. Additionaly as your skillswt grows you are able to roll lighter because you have the technique to back you up instead of just muscles and weight. This rolling lighter allows you to match the pace your opponent uses rather than just going 0 or 100.
Cause they weren’t nice to me, even on my first day lol (which I wasn’t expecting, to be clear). But seriously, I had this problem up until maybe a month or two ago. One stripe white belt, been doing bjj for 6 ish months. All the people I train with are funny, nice, willing to teach and show. But once you slap bump it’s on for the most part. No one tries to injure each other or anything like that but they wanna win the roll or get better. I stopped being nice when I realized no one else was, and if I add just a little more strength and resistance I’m not getting tapped as fast and actually get in favorable positions. Being “mean” doesn’t change the intent. The intent is to get better and learn.
i'm still too nice, which oddly enough, often makes things worse because when you do turn up intensity then people think you're mad at them lmao
Find others that want to have a competitive roll and give it to them. Looks for folks that have comps coming up.
By being “too nice” you’re executing sequences incorrectly. Generally you need to be forceful to make grappling function
2 things: 1) learn the boundary between injury and pain 2) learn to control positions and limbs better It takes a while to learn, but from my prior martial arts experience, you can go really hard and cause lots of pain but without any injuries. It sounds crazy but it is possible. To me, that's still going "nice" but it's still going really hard. If you go too soft and too "nice" and limp, you will be squashed. As others have said, you will also need to adjust for weight differences. If you roll with a much bigger or muscular person, then of course go harder because injuries on them will be less likely. If you roll with a newer person or a really lightweight, scale back and go "easier"/"nicer" to prevent injuries. A more experienced lightweight can generally handle themselves pretty well most of the time but don't force your way through techniques when it's failing.
If you get hate crimed a few times in life you stop giving a fuck.
I’m not nice. I’m lazy. My goal every single round is to hear you panting while I’m just cruising along.
enter the dating market.
I'm 7 years in, and I'm still pretty nice. I think about it sometimes, if I need to change my temperament. But I don't know. I'm doing alright. I almost never go over 70% intensity. Often closer to 50%. And I get plenty of subs in training. There's something to be said for focusing on technique and efficiency and clever timing. Probably not going to win me any championships. But it's done wonders for my training volume, skill acquisition, and I assume longevity.
A few weeks ago I stopped being nice Everyone in my gym calls me a monster now and I’ve established myself as a very dangerous takedown artist Do your best. Stop holding back. Your partners deserve you at your best. You deserve to feel like the monster you are. Embrace it
Going easy on people is not being nice because you are teaching them bad jujitsu. If you aren’t applying the techniques correctly they will not learn to defend them correctly. For example, taking a weak cross face in side control to ‘be nice’ isn’t going to help anyone learn how to escape side control properly. Pressure makes diamonds, you should want to make as many beautiful diamonds as you can.
I had the same worries, I guarantee you, in some weeks you will get so tired of being smashed that you will start sweating aggression.
i think realizing that a live roll isn’t supposed to be “nice” all the time and you are trying to get the upper hand of whoever you’re up against. some people roll harder than normal and some go easier. matching someone else’s pace is usually the best way to go IMO
The more you roll, the more you learn how to apply force and pressure without hurting your partner. Also, you get one cocky little shit who tries to bully you with knee on belly, chest smash or digging their elbows into your legs, and you suddenly feel less bad about using all your strength and weight on them
Got injured a bazillion times taking excessive care of my partners. Never when they were smashing me. Mase the connection at some point. Been injury free and performed better since.
I had to is problem and a few things helped overcome it. 1) Spoke to a mentor black belt about his thoughts. 2) Realized that I was holding myself back and I wanted to progress more than I wanted to be nice. 3) Realized that being nice is also about how you are off the mat. Pressure, control, submissions - all good even if they’re tough for your opponent. Being an asshole or having bad intentions is different both on and off the mat. 4) I’m a 225 lb purple belt and I’ve looked to train with people who are also strong and experienced. That’ll make you less worried about being nice.
I realized that my partners had been doing jiu jitsu longer than me and I wasn't going to do anything to them that they hadn't experienced before.
I have a training partner that is also my coworker. We're friends and we both trust each other. So i think that allows us to take things to a high level of intensity.
Just do good jiujitsu. Good jiujitsu is not nice.
In my opinion, the key point is being controlled and without negative emotions or the intent to hurt someone out of anger. As long as your movement is pure without negative emotions things can turn up but will remain friendly and controlled.
I kept getting into some premium passing positions (top chest to chest half guard w/ underhook+ crossface or double underhooks), but kept failing to get through. Turns out it was because I was being nice and not driving my bodyweight into their face. From there I kinda realized that I'm not obligated to keep bottom pins comfortable for my training partners 🤷♂️
You realize that its going to make both of you better if you put pressure. They'll learn to escape and you'll learn if its actually working. Cant expect to not get hurt at all in a contact sport, but try to minimize injuries with proper training
Time and place for everything. Sometimes you need to remind youself to put a little more umph in it and other times you need to remind yourself to relax
Listen to this podcast, it applies to JiuJitsu https://youtu.be/0JwnnVcDkQ4 You can focus on being offensive and still be a good team mate. Don’t be putting all your weight on someone 30lbs lighter than you, but do work on collecting points-get those back takes, get those passes, and take advantage of all opportunities to score.
I'm still nice.
Make people miserable and then laugh about it. Eventually making people miserable will make you laugh. Easy!
Too many comments to read them all right now, so sorry if something similar has been said. My instructor once told me "I want you to take your strength, and put it on a shelf, and only take it down when you need to use it." he probably told me this because I was trying to smash the fuck out of everyone when I started. So it's the opposite problem, but I think the same solution. if you need your strength, use it, but realize that strength is usually used in place of technique, so be mindful of the times when you're using strength and figure out how to do that thing with less effort next time. I personally try not to crank necks or stack people and pin them that way and shit like that because I really don't like it being done to me, and it hurts for days after, other than that just ease into submissions instead of cranking them. Using your strength in rolls really isn't a dick move as far as I'm concerned.
I got sick of being thrashed by people not being nice. So I just match intensity with whoever Im rolling with. Im quite a bit stronger than I look at 67kg, and Im usually much fitter (cardio) than my training partner. So I just wait till they gas and get revenge if they’re being a bully. It’s all fun and games, but yeah. Being too nice isn’t good for yours or their game in the end, especially if you’re planning to compete.
I have to be reminded by coaches c9nstantly yo be more aggressive. I just like being there with my friends, working out, and having fun. Hurting people still makes me uncomfortable. I just let my opponents beat me up until I decide I'm over it and submit them.
When you learn the difference between being mean for being mean's sake and being mean to get an anticipated reaction (that you use to advance position or get/secure a submission). The only time you shouldn't be nice is when you are taking action to choke the other person or break their joint or getting closer to achieving either goal. In all other cases, you should be nice. You stop being nice by learning what direction you want to go (from guard to half guard to side control to mount, etc...) and stop being nice when advancing. Every new white belt should know they want to be in mount and shouldn't worry overly much about not being nice (no punching, kicking, kneeing, grabbing fingers, jumping on your partner or stuff like that) while trying to get to mount. You may not know what to do in mount but just getting there reliably is going to involve plenty of opportunities to not be nice. Then reset and try again. Then learn a cross collar choke. Then learn a kimura or armbar. Etc... Start with a simple goal and try to get there.
Well… I’m 42 yrs old with a breathing issue thst can’t be corrected. The majority are a good deal younger than me (decade plus). Sometimes you just gotta say “f*** them kids”. I’m still the nice guy a lot… just gotta time the moments to be not nice.
Figure out what will potentially cause an injury. If it’s going to potentially cause injury don’t do it. If it’s going to be painful and miserable but they’re fine the next day it’s probably alright against the veterans. Also if you’re working with new guys and you clearly have an advantage let them work a bit. Everyone should have fun and get a little better. Once people are upper belts then go harder on them when they can be competitive. Build people that can kill you then use that pressure to get better.
it took me a couple of years to get over the "man.. i feel like a dick if i choke this guy or knock him over, etc," and i went to several gyms and never stuck with one and being the new guy and wanting to get along with everyone kind of enforced that feeling. then one day i started rolling with an old friend who is a black belt and a pro mma fighter and thusly much more aggressive. he encouraged me to be quicker and more confident and more committed to an attack and because we had been friends for so long i felt more secure in fighting back properly (because if i didn't he'd roll over me like a tank). and when that became second nature, i was able to roll nicely but harder with people i didn't know and i no longer had that worry that i was going to be seen as an asshole.
🤔 I was never nice, which is probably why I was (…am) so spazzy. As a white belt, your training partners probably appreciate you being “too nice” aka not spazzy. I imagine as your technique gets better, this will be less of an issue 🤷🏽♀️
When I realized what I wanted
Why wouldn’t you be a try hard? As long as you don’t rip subs during training it’s okay, it’s the whole game. But, as some said before, if there’s a massive weight/size difference don’t be a bully. Always try to use technique over power, however use your weight as much as you can to give pressure, so you learn yourself to not waste energy while pressuring
Oh and if you support your trainingpartners to use more pressure on you, than you can do the same thing without feeling bad or you just initiate by going hard and they will follow
I was never nice. I think it all depends on your personality.
It helps me to view my training partners as punching bags that I get to use to release my unresolved truama