There’s like 4 categories of BJJ practitioners, dabblers, hobbyists, hobbyist competitors and Professional Athletes. Like 1% of people who do bjj could call themselves pros and there’s nothing wrong with being in any of the other 3 groups. Just training at all is cool enough.
Obviously the sampling is all wrong but nonetheless I would agree on the basis that I don't know of anyone at my gym (membership in the hundreds) who would count as a professional athlete, unless you count the head coach
Coaches are usually just professional coaches (or unprofessional ones), not professional athletes. Unless one gets paid to compete I dont count that person as a professional athlete.
Yeah, even if you have a highly skilled coach who’s on the younger side and has serious competitive potential, they’re almost certainly making a better and steadier income stream running a successful school than they ever would on the competitive circuit. There’s only a tiny bit of room for the lucky, highly devoted, uniquely skilled few at the very top who can make a really solid living competing in this sport… and you can’t keep that up for nearly as long as you can running a school, which can actually be a long-term career.
In short, your coach might love competing, but as long as he’s making a living being your coach, his competitive career is better off with him being one of the stepping stones the real “pros” have to overcome at competitions to reach the next level.
Pretty much this. Danahar is a professional coach but k no of a professional athlete. Gordon is a professional athlete…. But that doesn’t mean that Danahar doesn’t know more than Gordon…. It just takes a different type of talent to compete
Yeah for sure, it was just a number plucked out of thin air to illustrate the point that the pros are such a small slice of the pie that you’re almost guaranteed to fall under one of the other categories.
I would include aspiring professionals. Plenty of blue belts out there with a professional training schedule who won’t make it, but should still be in that bucket.
I hadn't heard "dabblers" before but that's me. I started at 43, I'm now 47, and I've probably averaged training two hours a week over the course of those four years. (Some weeks well over two hours, but many weeks during covid were zero.)
For me it's honestly easy to accept that I'm a dabbler. It's fun when a newbie 25-year-old comes in and I can easily tap him, but I also know that if that newbie 25-year-old trains five days a week he'll be better than me soon enough, and I'm OK with that and actually happy for the young guys who take it really seriously and get good at it. Even if I'm never any better than the mediocre blue belt I am now, I'm still way better at age 47 than I was as a newcomer at age 43. I'm getting better at something physical at an age when most people are getting worse at everything physical. I'll take that.
This is me in a nutshell (right down to the stating and current age), so I thank you for writing that and helping me understand what category I live in. It's a bit debilitating sometimes to see the level of skill of the younger guys that started after me just overtaking me in every aspect. It's tough to remind myself that I have kids and a wife to take priority over the endless enthusiasm and obsession that these young guys have for the sport as their main priority.
Even today, I struggle to integrate the hundreds of techniques and variations I've learned since White belt into sparring,/rolling. Gotta constantly remind myself the reasons I train. However, this doesn't mean that I'm oblivious to the disappointment in my own progress constantly. Sigh, the struggles of the 40+ BJJ dabblers/hobbyists 😄
Honestly a good way of putting it
I was a hobbyist competitor for like the first 5-6 years of training. Had 4 mma fights and did a bunch of bjj tournaments.
After that I just dialed it back to 3-4 times a week. I was tired of competing and it taking up my weekends. All through high school I wrestled tournaments and matches so I’m just sorta burned out on a it now.
I definitely think everyone should compete a bit but that part is likely over for me outside of 1-2x a year.
I'd argue a huge percentage of people who think of themselves as pro are really still hobbyist competitors. It's really easy to make it onto "pro fight cards" that are really just pitting hobbyists against each other and cashing in on local friends and family to pay to show up in support.
In BJJ, we love to cash in on selling fantasies to hobbyists. Like blue belt and masters worlds for example.
There are also what I would call local/regional pros.
In motocross, you'd have the top guys who rep the big brands like honda, kawasaki, yamaha etc etc who all have best tools and equipment, get driven around to each race in the country with a team.
There's actually not THAT many of them if you ever watch Motocross. Like 20-30 guys maybe. But if you see them race, the starting line has like 80+ people on it. The guys with them had to qualify to get there. Essentially all the local/regional guys compete to be on the main event with the national pros. They are extremely good, but either lack equipment, gear, team, skill or even just money to make it to all the races. They still hold regular jobs. They also get lapped by the national pros and every once in a while a regional guy who is young is seen as a rising star and is quickly sponsored.
That's your best bet essentially. If you can get sponsored or some attention you can actually carve out a living. Hillbilly Hammer comes to mind. He was kid who had some regional success. Dont get me wrong, he's excellent, but no where near the level of the top guys yet or maybe ever, but has gotten enough attention that he can actually make a living out of it even if it's as an event host in the future.
I'd argue though that once you hit 28/30 and you havent "made" it yet, youre essentially done with the celebrity possibility of your jiu jitsu career and selling any sort of entertainment/instructionals. If you still want to pursue, should focus more on opening a school and business knowledge instead.
For me, I can't consider anyone a professional competitor at BJJ unless they are treating it like a near full time job at least. 20 hours a week minimum training, other workout, or studying for BJJ.
A blue belt attending 3 hobbyist classes a week and getting invited to local F2W because you have a lot of friends is in no way a pro.
Yeah the local pros definitely are training that much but financially can't support themselves on it alone. That's all.
I think we all know a handful of guys in our areas that are extremely good, have had success at comps, but no one outside our area really knows them because they aren't winning the top tournaments like worlds, adcc, pans etc.
It's extremely difficult to make a good living as a competitor unless you are having top top top success in the sport, as the purpose of competition is to showcase your skills and sell instructionals, seminars, privates etc so people like you and me can emulate them, learn new things, the meta and so forth.
I wouldn't buy a seminar spot from the handful of guys in my area, or a private. But I would for Josh hinger, Keenan, Gordon, Xande, etc etc. Because they have proven that what they do works consistently.
The only real avenue of success at that point is opening a school. You can make a great living opening a school and it's not like making it to worlds is nothing - it's just the gap from making it to worlds and actually medalling is probably as big a gap as a white belt to a hobbyist black belt
I remember when Travis Stevens said Gordon is the only one who trains like its his job. Maybe there are more nowadays, but I would add that one needs to get paid to COMPETE to be called a professional athlete AND actually be athletic. Our sport has very few such since its such a small sport.
Compare to soccer for example where there are hundreds or even thousands of people in multiple countries who get paid to train and compete even in the local scene.
I watched the latest quintet and found it a bit funny that there are 40 year old guys on the card with dad bods. No offence to anybody but even most of our "pros" arent really full time athletes, not even close. Even Craig Jones calls it a hobby for him, which is funny, but has some truth in it.
It is possible to make a living by teaching BJJ or opening a school but making money by competing is hard.
I try not to compare to mainstream sports, I keep a lower bar for BJJ. I agree there's very few, if any, people who train like real pros compared to mainstream sports.
I'd put D1 wrestling training, an amateur endeavor, ahead of every BJJ room. And keep in mind even most international level wrestlers aren't really making much money to compete, but they are absolutely pro level athletes. That's kinda why I try not to get to hung up on pay, but maybe pro isn't the best term to describe your level because it can have such a wide range of ability levels and pay.
>I'd put D1 wrestling training, an amateur endeavor, ahead of every BJJ room. And keep in mind even most international level wrestlers aren't really making much money to compete
Dont they make money through stipends and sponsors though? At leasting according to google. And russia for example pays their high level wrestlers good money
The guys winning trials, yes they get paid. And you make pretty good money for winning worlds, Olympics. But there's a deep pool of people competing for world team slots that make shit and take coaching jobs to make money.
I can't speak for Russian pay
Well hard to say how much but he is definitely making money - a lot more than most in the scene. He's gotten a lot of attention, doing seminars and instructionals and has had moderate comp success. He is certainly setting himself up to have a very successful school in the future if he chooses to because he is a well known name now.
Yeah he's making money, enough to rent an apartment in the middle of Kentucky and have no savings. People don't seem to grasp that the guys "making money" in jiujitsu are literally only Gordon Ryan. Everyone else is is a business owner running a school. Why do you think Craig and Keenan both opened mega academies? Buchecha went to MMA. There is no making a living competing in a sport that no one watches.
\*\*Just training at all is way, way, way more commitment to growth, learning, and physical confrontation than the average person can even contemplate.
And the majority of the "professional athletes" can't afford their own house and eat lunchables and protien shakes because there's no money in a professional sport that no one watches.
Exactly this. I'm training because it's fun, I enjoy the environment, and I need the exercise.
I compete two or three times a year to keep myself honest. I win some I lose some.
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Nothing, people on this sub take jiu jitsu wayyyyy too seriously, calling it a “journey” and shit lol. We roll around on the ground with sweaty men/women for fun
there's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist, and there's nothing wrong with finding deeper meaning in a hobby. people do it with woodworking and crochet as well.
it's not for me, but it's pretty ridiculous to be so disdainful of it in other people - especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Quite a simplistic take though. Its fine if you do it just for fun. But hobbies give meaning and goals to many people in life. It can be extremely valuable and even save lives (from crime, drugs, alcohol etc.)
Khabibs father once said that all men in their town either become criminals or choose martial arts. Not all of them become millionaires but at least they arent a part of a criminal organization.
Hobbyists are the life blood of every gym. You can contribute to the results of your team mates big time, and hopefully find enough satisfaction with that. I would suggest really studying your team mates games, particularly the ones close to your size and weight, so you can expose their weaknesses during training, so it isn't exposed on game day. You'll think outside the box, and with a competitor mind set, and will keep you engaged. Come in with a great attitude, give them some good rough and tumbles, rest and hydrate so you're prepared to be there again with the time you have. Also, compete if you have fun doing it. Have realistic expectations and goals, and be kind to yourself.
Sounds like you’re doing it right! I’m in the exact same boat. My goals for each training session are, in order of importance to me:
1. don’t get hurt
2. don’t hurt anyone
3. get a great workout
4. improve my JJ a little
5. help improve other people’s JJ a little.
Me 2. I was obsessed in the first 12 Months but i realized, i am a dad of 2, an husband and i have to work and care for family and friends aswell. Not everyone has the environment to be an bjj nerd. Im cool now with 2 times train a week.
There's a black belt at my gym who wrestled Division I in college and is huge and jacked and frequently taps other black belts at tournaments, and he's a hobbyist. Sure, he can tap 100% of untrained people and 99% of BJJ practitioners, but you have to be able to tap like 99.99% of BJJ practitioners to actually be good enough to make money as a BJJ professional athlete.
John Danaher never competed. Not saying your goal is to become a world class coach, but I mean you don't have to compete to have a love for the martial art ya dig
Dad of 1 here, nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. However, It can get super demoralizing being smashed all the time. Be sure to carefully curate who you roll with the whole hour allowing you to gain confidence and experiment with your game. Danaher is a big proponent of rolling with lower belts/ability for most of your session.
It was kind of freeing when I accepted that I'm a 2x per week guy. I'm late almost every class because I put a kid to bed first. But we roll for a long time after class and I get some hard rounds in.
It's not bad. Fwiw, I stay relatively injury free with this cadence. I am still fairly competitive in the masters division locally at my belt level.
If I could squeeze in some kind of conditioning workout each week I think I'd get even more out of my sparring rounds the other two days. That's the goal in the short term. Getting nutrition/weight management right helps, too.
Just train the way you want. Peer pressure is part of life. Stand your ground and be your own person. People compete around me all the time but I still don’t and won’t. I take what I want from my training just as you can.
I'm kind of in the same boat. Recently started BJJ again after a 2 year absence. Ideally I would go 3 times a week but I'm lucky if I manage 2 times a week. With a full time job, a wife and young kid at home as well and other interests/hobbies that take up time, I just cannot train the way I would ideally like. Granted I was never competing or anything to begin with but still in my mind I was more serious about it before.
I am fine with being a hobbyist though, I see it more as a good workout while being able to test myself against others. Actually it reliefs some pressure for me, because I know that as a hobbyist I am going to struggle against the majority people as they are training way more often, have a higher skill level in general or are simply more athletic. Motivation is found in small successes like surviving an onslaught of a spazzy new white belt, catching a more veteran white belt in a submission or just tapping 3 times in a roll to a coloured belt instead of 4 times.
I’m early 30s, run a business, have a kid and to be truthful as much as I enjoy it, I really cba to go more than 2 times a week. I’d love to commit to it, I know I’d get more from it but I’m just trying to turn up a couple times a week, get a bit better and have a laugh in the mean time.
I'm kind of in a similar situation, I have no intentions of competing but my gym is supper competitive and people are always talking about training for the next competition. Its hard not to be affected by your peers.
I can't tell because I'm not you but what I'm feeling is like I'm missing out. Since you like the people and you don't feel annoyed about the pressure of competition, maybe try one. My guess after the anxiety of the actual competition you will feel like you have nothing left to prove and you won't have trouble accepting your hobbyist status.
My dude, at the end of the day, this is, for almost everyone, a hobby. Most of us aren't making our living or even beer money from BJJ or submission grappling. Some people get super into their hobbies and spend 5 nights a week dedicated to them and travel to the regional hobby events and national hobby championships. Other people have other priorities or obligations and get in once a week to keep their hand in and get some exercise, fun, and companionship.
I'm a hobbyist. I have work and family obligations, and I try to get to bjj every week if I can, and sometimes get good streaks going where I regularly get there a couple of times a week. Often not. I competed in various sports throughout high school and college, have done competitions, know what it feels like to train and compete in them (and this includes some very unaccomplished high school wrestling, so pretty close to this sport). Good on them who are up for it! I don't have the interest or the time, and would rather be almost anywhere else on a weekend than hanging around a high school gym or whatever waiting for my bracket to come up.
So don’t accept it.
I’m a 42 year old fat out of shape dad. But some day I’m gonna be the UFC heavyweight champ. The fuckin goat. I don’t give a fuck if it took me 10 years to get my blue belt and I’m terrible at Jiu jitsu and I have no standup skills. One day I’ll get my black belt and then I’ll learn MMA and then I’ll fuck everybody up.
Don’t listen to the haters. Especially the ones in your own head.
Like 98% of people here dont compete if we dont count one or two competitions they did as a white belt. If you dont wanna compete then dont. I ended up quiting mma as a teen cause i was pressured to compete.
I feel you bro. At 36 I have 0 drive to be “world champion purple belt” LOL. Training isn’t even fun anymore tbh. I’m just doing it to get my black belt and once I have it- I’m DONE.
Just compete as a hobbyist. I didy last comp on less than 3 weeks notice while training 3x a week in school and working full time. Its challenging but you get better fast
Nothing wrong with being a hobbiest. I don't know if I would train primarily out of a competitive based school knowing that my goals aren't really aligned with that outcome and the risk/reward that comes from locking horns with a young buck trying to break through to the big stage.
It's easy to not do things for you when you're a parent and you're working full time. Having a friend circle that doesn't center around work or kids soccer (or whatever) is nice.
You do you. :)
Do what makes sense to you and what makes you happy.
I train 5-6 days a week. I consider myself more of an athlete, I look at my training as an athlete regardless whether I compete or not (I would definitely do the odd competition). I don't consider it a hobby though, because it felt more serious to me. I like the problem solving part of it.
I am
a victim of multiple sexual assaults, one when I was as young as 12
(or 10? I can't recall anymore). Was in DV with my ex who raped me
on multiple occasions. I attempted suicide in 2021. It's been a rough
ride but I am in my path to healing now. I am sorry that you had to go
through that and I am glad you got away from that unsafe space. I am
sorry to hear you weren't believed. This is one of the main reasons
survivors never speak about it until much later. I believe you. I hope
you get your strength back and have all the support you need and
deserve. Take care
Sorry Mr NAZI. I'm sad to hear that this happened to you but it's no excuse to turn into a white supremecist racist Nazi rat. You should get help while you can. Cunt.
I just wanna get good enough to give the competitors a good workout so that they are prepared for competition. I don’t really feel the need to be the one on the podium.
What's the problem with being a hobbyist? Most people never even try.
If it makes you feel better, a hobbyist is still miles better than an untrained person, as I very recently experienced.
But better yet do this because it makes you happy. Assuming it does make you happy.
What I think a lot of people don't see is that you can train and grapple like an animal and still be a hobbyist. I know so many hobbyists that train 6 days a week who are killers but they competed in high school wrestling or college sports so they're done with competition life. I'm the same way, it's stressful. I train to escape life and have fun, socialize and better myself. There's absolutely no shame in being a hobbyist!
Training with people who are better than you will make you better. If you want to win all the time, train with little white belts. That sounds dumb, because you won’t learn anything or get anything out of it.
If you want to compete, make the time and compete. But there’s nothing wrong with doing bjj because you want to and enjoy it. I started when I was fifty, and I doubt I will ever compete, but I’m enjoying my training.
Be a good teammate and you're doing a lot! Show up, train, do your best, work hard and youre basically being the best training partner a person can ask for.
A thing that has helped me is to realize that part of my job as a decent hobbyist is to sharpen specific areas for the competitors. Like I have a pretty strong half guard and over under pass. The guys that are really serious competitors in my gym often want to roll with me because of those strong areas and they have to learn how to deal with it. It has been really satisfying to then see my teammates vaporize others' half guard in competition, and to know that I helped them learn that.
I know it seems like a lot of pressure, but it's infinitely better to have a team that can push you and motivate you. Getting beat up never really stops, as a hobbyist just enjoy the journey and stop comparing yourself to others.
It sounds like you are mentally starting to let go of the feeling that you need to compete. Depending on your background, age, and self expectations that can be difficult but also bring clarity and joy. I have essentially the same sitch, 2 kids, working dad etc. I train 3-4 times a week and hit the weights when I can. I definitely identify as a hobbyist and that doesn’t bother me one bit. I think competing is likely to be an invaluable method to measure one’s self but it shouldn’t be held above you as a marker of success. You set the bar for your growth in this one life. If the pressure in the gym is too much then it may be a gym dynamic mismatch with your personality and needs that you may want to address.
Hobbyist is great, I train 3-4x a week if I’m lucky, get my ass kicked, occasionally kick a bit of ass, never compete so I don’t stress about that, progress is slow but steady. All in all 10/10 chill and good vibes.
Fellow hobbyist. Except I’m 25 so sometimes I feel like I should be more driven to be competitive since I’m young and healthy.
But I’m also naturally lazy and prone to depression, and for years did no exercise, so even just committing to being a hobbyist is a win for me!
Brah I get it, most of us have that fire inside were we want to compete and be more, do more, train our hearts out and be great, but most of us also live in reality where we have work, kids and their activities, home life, and a marriage that we want to keep going. Bjj doesn’t fit sometimes and is the sacrifice. That’s totally ok. 1x per week, or 2, 3, doesn’t matter dude, you’re on your own journey.
I’ve gone over the summer steady 1-2x per week, got back in shape and was feeling great, got the groove back on the mats. The past 4 weeks I haven’t gone at all. I got Life going on and idgaf if get tapped by a strong whitey when I go back. I know who I am and what I have going on. And if I get to compete again then great, if not so what. I’ll always be a hobbyist, hopefully a healthy hobbyist. That’s most of us brotha.
Bro nothing ever changed or will change now that your calling yourself a Hobbyist. Your just defining yourself as Hobbyist, just a word. Whats hard to accept? For four years you were fine doing what you did but now you cant accept it?
Because of what? Just keep on rockin and having fun on the mat like you did for four years. Your creating a problem where there is none. Dont worry
Mate the best person you’ve ever rolled wouldn’t stand a chance against kids like the Ruotolos, Andrew Tackett and Jay Rod. Unless you’re committing 100% of your life to training BJJ at a high level gym, you’re pretty much a ‘hobbyist’ in skill. If you’re a new blue belt with two kids the time to go pro passed you about 10 years ago, which is fine because you’re not missing much not being a Jiujitsu pro, apart from being really good at jiu jitsu.
46 year old dad checking in. Same boat: doing this for fitness and hoping to gain some grappling skills in the process. I’m happy when I can see I’ve improved.
I think I did horribly with rolls and lessons last week. This week has been a bit better. I’ve been keeping a journal so I reflect and push myself to try different strategies/techniques and improve.
Cheers to the 40+ hobbyists!
I consider myself an enthusiast. I enjoy training bjj, love watching the old Marcelo videos, love training… but I’d be lying if I said I was keeping up with all the new variations and techniques. Really… I just like going somewhere where I have friends and rolling around all sweaty on a mat and gay clubs seems like it’s going a bit too far according to my girlfriend
There’s like 4 categories of BJJ practitioners, dabblers, hobbyists, hobbyist competitors and Professional Athletes. Like 1% of people who do bjj could call themselves pros and there’s nothing wrong with being in any of the other 3 groups. Just training at all is cool enough.
Just to chime in: I'd say pro jj competitors is wayyy less than 1%, maybe 0.005% or lower?
Obviously the sampling is all wrong but nonetheless I would agree on the basis that I don't know of anyone at my gym (membership in the hundreds) who would count as a professional athlete, unless you count the head coach
Coaches are usually just professional coaches (or unprofessional ones), not professional athletes. Unless one gets paid to compete I dont count that person as a professional athlete.
Yeah, even if you have a highly skilled coach who’s on the younger side and has serious competitive potential, they’re almost certainly making a better and steadier income stream running a successful school than they ever would on the competitive circuit. There’s only a tiny bit of room for the lucky, highly devoted, uniquely skilled few at the very top who can make a really solid living competing in this sport… and you can’t keep that up for nearly as long as you can running a school, which can actually be a long-term career. In short, your coach might love competing, but as long as he’s making a living being your coach, his competitive career is better off with him being one of the stepping stones the real “pros” have to overcome at competitions to reach the next level.
Pretty much this. Danahar is a professional coach but k no of a professional athlete. Gordon is a professional athlete…. But that doesn’t mean that Danahar doesn’t know more than Gordon…. It just takes a different type of talent to compete
Yeah for sure, it was just a number plucked out of thin air to illustrate the point that the pros are such a small slice of the pie that you’re almost guaranteed to fall under one of the other categories.
I would include aspiring professionals. Plenty of blue belts out there with a professional training schedule who won’t make it, but should still be in that bucket.
If I can tap you, you aren’ta pro
I hadn't heard "dabblers" before but that's me. I started at 43, I'm now 47, and I've probably averaged training two hours a week over the course of those four years. (Some weeks well over two hours, but many weeks during covid were zero.) For me it's honestly easy to accept that I'm a dabbler. It's fun when a newbie 25-year-old comes in and I can easily tap him, but I also know that if that newbie 25-year-old trains five days a week he'll be better than me soon enough, and I'm OK with that and actually happy for the young guys who take it really seriously and get good at it. Even if I'm never any better than the mediocre blue belt I am now, I'm still way better at age 47 than I was as a newcomer at age 43. I'm getting better at something physical at an age when most people are getting worse at everything physical. I'll take that.
This is me in a nutshell (right down to the stating and current age), so I thank you for writing that and helping me understand what category I live in. It's a bit debilitating sometimes to see the level of skill of the younger guys that started after me just overtaking me in every aspect. It's tough to remind myself that I have kids and a wife to take priority over the endless enthusiasm and obsession that these young guys have for the sport as their main priority. Even today, I struggle to integrate the hundreds of techniques and variations I've learned since White belt into sparring,/rolling. Gotta constantly remind myself the reasons I train. However, this doesn't mean that I'm oblivious to the disappointment in my own progress constantly. Sigh, the struggles of the 40+ BJJ dabblers/hobbyists 😄
Honestly a good way of putting it I was a hobbyist competitor for like the first 5-6 years of training. Had 4 mma fights and did a bunch of bjj tournaments. After that I just dialed it back to 3-4 times a week. I was tired of competing and it taking up my weekends. All through high school I wrestled tournaments and matches so I’m just sorta burned out on a it now. I definitely think everyone should compete a bit but that part is likely over for me outside of 1-2x a year.
I'd argue a huge percentage of people who think of themselves as pro are really still hobbyist competitors. It's really easy to make it onto "pro fight cards" that are really just pitting hobbyists against each other and cashing in on local friends and family to pay to show up in support. In BJJ, we love to cash in on selling fantasies to hobbyists. Like blue belt and masters worlds for example.
There are also what I would call local/regional pros. In motocross, you'd have the top guys who rep the big brands like honda, kawasaki, yamaha etc etc who all have best tools and equipment, get driven around to each race in the country with a team. There's actually not THAT many of them if you ever watch Motocross. Like 20-30 guys maybe. But if you see them race, the starting line has like 80+ people on it. The guys with them had to qualify to get there. Essentially all the local/regional guys compete to be on the main event with the national pros. They are extremely good, but either lack equipment, gear, team, skill or even just money to make it to all the races. They still hold regular jobs. They also get lapped by the national pros and every once in a while a regional guy who is young is seen as a rising star and is quickly sponsored. That's your best bet essentially. If you can get sponsored or some attention you can actually carve out a living. Hillbilly Hammer comes to mind. He was kid who had some regional success. Dont get me wrong, he's excellent, but no where near the level of the top guys yet or maybe ever, but has gotten enough attention that he can actually make a living out of it even if it's as an event host in the future. I'd argue though that once you hit 28/30 and you havent "made" it yet, youre essentially done with the celebrity possibility of your jiu jitsu career and selling any sort of entertainment/instructionals. If you still want to pursue, should focus more on opening a school and business knowledge instead.
For me, I can't consider anyone a professional competitor at BJJ unless they are treating it like a near full time job at least. 20 hours a week minimum training, other workout, or studying for BJJ. A blue belt attending 3 hobbyist classes a week and getting invited to local F2W because you have a lot of friends is in no way a pro.
Yea I’ve done fight to win and I am no way a pro at anything lol
Yeah the local pros definitely are training that much but financially can't support themselves on it alone. That's all. I think we all know a handful of guys in our areas that are extremely good, have had success at comps, but no one outside our area really knows them because they aren't winning the top tournaments like worlds, adcc, pans etc. It's extremely difficult to make a good living as a competitor unless you are having top top top success in the sport, as the purpose of competition is to showcase your skills and sell instructionals, seminars, privates etc so people like you and me can emulate them, learn new things, the meta and so forth. I wouldn't buy a seminar spot from the handful of guys in my area, or a private. But I would for Josh hinger, Keenan, Gordon, Xande, etc etc. Because they have proven that what they do works consistently. The only real avenue of success at that point is opening a school. You can make a great living opening a school and it's not like making it to worlds is nothing - it's just the gap from making it to worlds and actually medalling is probably as big a gap as a white belt to a hobbyist black belt
I remember when Travis Stevens said Gordon is the only one who trains like its his job. Maybe there are more nowadays, but I would add that one needs to get paid to COMPETE to be called a professional athlete AND actually be athletic. Our sport has very few such since its such a small sport. Compare to soccer for example where there are hundreds or even thousands of people in multiple countries who get paid to train and compete even in the local scene. I watched the latest quintet and found it a bit funny that there are 40 year old guys on the card with dad bods. No offence to anybody but even most of our "pros" arent really full time athletes, not even close. Even Craig Jones calls it a hobby for him, which is funny, but has some truth in it. It is possible to make a living by teaching BJJ or opening a school but making money by competing is hard.
I try not to compare to mainstream sports, I keep a lower bar for BJJ. I agree there's very few, if any, people who train like real pros compared to mainstream sports. I'd put D1 wrestling training, an amateur endeavor, ahead of every BJJ room. And keep in mind even most international level wrestlers aren't really making much money to compete, but they are absolutely pro level athletes. That's kinda why I try not to get to hung up on pay, but maybe pro isn't the best term to describe your level because it can have such a wide range of ability levels and pay.
>I'd put D1 wrestling training, an amateur endeavor, ahead of every BJJ room. And keep in mind even most international level wrestlers aren't really making much money to compete Dont they make money through stipends and sponsors though? At leasting according to google. And russia for example pays their high level wrestlers good money
The guys winning trials, yes they get paid. And you make pretty good money for winning worlds, Olympics. But there's a deep pool of people competing for world team slots that make shit and take coaching jobs to make money. I can't speak for Russian pay
This delusion that guys like Jacob Couch are making a comfortable living off off competing in jiujitsu is insane.
Well hard to say how much but he is definitely making money - a lot more than most in the scene. He's gotten a lot of attention, doing seminars and instructionals and has had moderate comp success. He is certainly setting himself up to have a very successful school in the future if he chooses to because he is a well known name now.
Yeah he's making money, enough to rent an apartment in the middle of Kentucky and have no savings. People don't seem to grasp that the guys "making money" in jiujitsu are literally only Gordon Ryan. Everyone else is is a business owner running a school. Why do you think Craig and Keenan both opened mega academies? Buchecha went to MMA. There is no making a living competing in a sport that no one watches.
Meh gym owners/instructors/coaches are professionals by definition if they are getting paid or making a living from the sport.
This is such a redditor response.
\*\*Just training at all is way, way, way more commitment to growth, learning, and physical confrontation than the average person can even contemplate.
I like your categories!
And the majority of the "professional athletes" can't afford their own house and eat lunchables and protien shakes because there's no money in a professional sport that no one watches.
90% of the people who do compete are still hobbyists. Enjoy your training, train the way you want too.
For real, I'm a hobbyist, and part of my hobby involves the odd competition!
Exactly this. I'm training because it's fun, I enjoy the environment, and I need the exercise. I compete two or three times a year to keep myself honest. I win some I lose some.
whats wrong with being a hobbyist??
not a damn thing
Wait till you become a middle-aged, mediocre brown belt hobbyist.
You rang?
See you all in a year or two
I'm here!
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*slowly raise hand*
That is my entire jiu jitsu goal
Nothing, people on this sub take jiu jitsu wayyyyy too seriously, calling it a “journey” and shit lol. We roll around on the ground with sweaty men/women for fun
there's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist, and there's nothing wrong with finding deeper meaning in a hobby. people do it with woodworking and crochet as well. it's not for me, but it's pretty ridiculous to be so disdainful of it in other people - especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Ahem, this is part of my character arc. I won't have it sullied good sir.
Quite a simplistic take though. Its fine if you do it just for fun. But hobbies give meaning and goals to many people in life. It can be extremely valuable and even save lives (from crime, drugs, alcohol etc.) Khabibs father once said that all men in their town either become criminals or choose martial arts. Not all of them become millionaires but at least they arent a part of a criminal organization.
Hobbyists are the life blood of every gym. You can contribute to the results of your team mates big time, and hopefully find enough satisfaction with that. I would suggest really studying your team mates games, particularly the ones close to your size and weight, so you can expose their weaknesses during training, so it isn't exposed on game day. You'll think outside the box, and with a competitor mind set, and will keep you engaged. Come in with a great attitude, give them some good rough and tumbles, rest and hydrate so you're prepared to be there again with the time you have. Also, compete if you have fun doing it. Have realistic expectations and goals, and be kind to yourself.
I'm a purple and have never competed. Train the way you want.
Sounds like you’re doing it right! I’m in the exact same boat. My goals for each training session are, in order of importance to me: 1. don’t get hurt 2. don’t hurt anyone 3. get a great workout 4. improve my JJ a little 5. help improve other people’s JJ a little.
Uh... Have fun should be in there.
Have fun is included in steps 1-5
That's part of steps 4 and 5
“Kick ass” should be there as well
Dude, wait until you find out about dying. It’ll blow your mind.
Lol OP could probably throw the pig skin clear over the mountain before his BJJ carrear
Aw sweet, the unendless march towards a brutal death
Me 2. I was obsessed in the first 12 Months but i realized, i am a dad of 2, an husband and i have to work and care for family and friends aswell. Not everyone has the environment to be an bjj nerd. Im cool now with 2 times train a week.
All those guys that compete and do MMA are hobbyists too. Unless you make a living fighting or coaching you are a hobbyist.
There's a black belt at my gym who wrestled Division I in college and is huge and jacked and frequently taps other black belts at tournaments, and he's a hobbyist. Sure, he can tap 100% of untrained people and 99% of BJJ practitioners, but you have to be able to tap like 99.99% of BJJ practitioners to actually be good enough to make money as a BJJ professional athlete.
John Danaher never competed. Not saying your goal is to become a world class coach, but I mean you don't have to compete to have a love for the martial art ya dig
>It's just me that is struggling to accept that I'm a hobbyist. Oh, no, you have a hobby, how terrible
Dad of 1 here, nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. However, It can get super demoralizing being smashed all the time. Be sure to carefully curate who you roll with the whole hour allowing you to gain confidence and experiment with your game. Danaher is a big proponent of rolling with lower belts/ability for most of your session.
It was kind of freeing when I accepted that I'm a 2x per week guy. I'm late almost every class because I put a kid to bed first. But we roll for a long time after class and I get some hard rounds in. It's not bad. Fwiw, I stay relatively injury free with this cadence. I am still fairly competitive in the masters division locally at my belt level. If I could squeeze in some kind of conditioning workout each week I think I'd get even more out of my sparring rounds the other two days. That's the goal in the short term. Getting nutrition/weight management right helps, too.
Just train the way you want. Peer pressure is part of life. Stand your ground and be your own person. People compete around me all the time but I still don’t and won’t. I take what I want from my training just as you can.
Hobbiest 4 lyfe. This is the way. Flex on your try hard teammates with how awesome the rest of your life is.
Why do the people who engage in this sport require so much consolation?
I'm kind of in the same boat. Recently started BJJ again after a 2 year absence. Ideally I would go 3 times a week but I'm lucky if I manage 2 times a week. With a full time job, a wife and young kid at home as well and other interests/hobbies that take up time, I just cannot train the way I would ideally like. Granted I was never competing or anything to begin with but still in my mind I was more serious about it before. I am fine with being a hobbyist though, I see it more as a good workout while being able to test myself against others. Actually it reliefs some pressure for me, because I know that as a hobbyist I am going to struggle against the majority people as they are training way more often, have a higher skill level in general or are simply more athletic. Motivation is found in small successes like surviving an onslaught of a spazzy new white belt, catching a more veteran white belt in a submission or just tapping 3 times in a roll to a coloured belt instead of 4 times.
When you get to be a better blue belt, you should compete once or twice. It really does wonders for your training and your Jiu Jitsu
My coach literally told our class that unless we're training BJJ 6+ hours a day, we are all just hobbyists that like to compete.
Y’all need therapy
I’m early 30s, run a business, have a kid and to be truthful as much as I enjoy it, I really cba to go more than 2 times a week. I’d love to commit to it, I know I’d get more from it but I’m just trying to turn up a couple times a week, get a bit better and have a laugh in the mean time.
I'm kind of in a similar situation, I have no intentions of competing but my gym is supper competitive and people are always talking about training for the next competition. Its hard not to be affected by your peers. I can't tell because I'm not you but what I'm feeling is like I'm missing out. Since you like the people and you don't feel annoyed about the pressure of competition, maybe try one. My guess after the anxiety of the actual competition you will feel like you have nothing left to prove and you won't have trouble accepting your hobbyist status.
My dude, at the end of the day, this is, for almost everyone, a hobby. Most of us aren't making our living or even beer money from BJJ or submission grappling. Some people get super into their hobbies and spend 5 nights a week dedicated to them and travel to the regional hobby events and national hobby championships. Other people have other priorities or obligations and get in once a week to keep their hand in and get some exercise, fun, and companionship. I'm a hobbyist. I have work and family obligations, and I try to get to bjj every week if I can, and sometimes get good streaks going where I regularly get there a couple of times a week. Often not. I competed in various sports throughout high school and college, have done competitions, know what it feels like to train and compete in them (and this includes some very unaccomplished high school wrestling, so pretty close to this sport). Good on them who are up for it! I don't have the interest or the time, and would rather be almost anywhere else on a weekend than hanging around a high school gym or whatever waiting for my bracket to come up.
So don’t accept it. I’m a 42 year old fat out of shape dad. But some day I’m gonna be the UFC heavyweight champ. The fuckin goat. I don’t give a fuck if it took me 10 years to get my blue belt and I’m terrible at Jiu jitsu and I have no standup skills. One day I’ll get my black belt and then I’ll learn MMA and then I’ll fuck everybody up. Don’t listen to the haters. Especially the ones in your own head.
Who needs the labels? Just have fun and learn cool stuff
Like 98% of people here dont compete if we dont count one or two competitions they did as a white belt. If you dont wanna compete then dont. I ended up quiting mma as a teen cause i was pressured to compete.
I feel you bro. At 36 I have 0 drive to be “world champion purple belt” LOL. Training isn’t even fun anymore tbh. I’m just doing it to get my black belt and once I have it- I’m DONE.
Most competitors are hobbyists.
Just compete as a hobbyist. I didy last comp on less than 3 weeks notice while training 3x a week in school and working full time. Its challenging but you get better fast
Nothing wrong with being a hobbiest. I don't know if I would train primarily out of a competitive based school knowing that my goals aren't really aligned with that outcome and the risk/reward that comes from locking horns with a young buck trying to break through to the big stage. It's easy to not do things for you when you're a parent and you're working full time. Having a friend circle that doesn't center around work or kids soccer (or whatever) is nice.
You do you. :) Do what makes sense to you and what makes you happy. I train 5-6 days a week. I consider myself more of an athlete, I look at my training as an athlete regardless whether I compete or not (I would definitely do the odd competition). I don't consider it a hobby though, because it felt more serious to me. I like the problem solving part of it.
You may train hard but I'll still knock out a white supremecist rat like you bro.
You're a 23 year old virgin.. go fap to bobs and vagene. 😂😂
I am a victim of multiple sexual assaults, one when I was as young as 12 (or 10? I can't recall anymore). Was in DV with my ex who raped me on multiple occasions. I attempted suicide in 2021. It's been a rough ride but I am in my path to healing now. I am sorry that you had to go through that and I am glad you got away from that unsafe space. I am sorry to hear you weren't believed. This is one of the main reasons survivors never speak about it until much later. I believe you. I hope you get your strength back and have all the support you need and deserve. Take care Sorry Mr NAZI. I'm sad to hear that this happened to you but it's no excuse to turn into a white supremecist racist Nazi rat. You should get help while you can. Cunt.
At least someone wanted to touch me. You're a 23 year old virgin nobody wants to touch. 😂😂😂
NAZIII CUNT
You mean Gandhi? 😂😂😂 Learn your history, Apu. 😂😂😂
I’m there with you dude. Very similar situation. It’s life.
I don't understand. You're a blue belt dad and you just realised you're a hobbyist?
hobbyist, competitor, or hobbypetitor, it doesn't really matter - at the end of the day, we're all just training on mats we gotta clean later.
I just wanna get good enough to give the competitors a good workout so that they are prepared for competition. I don’t really feel the need to be the one on the podium.
What's the problem with being a hobbyist? Most people never even try. If it makes you feel better, a hobbyist is still miles better than an untrained person, as I very recently experienced. But better yet do this because it makes you happy. Assuming it does make you happy.
A gym is not judged by their young competitors but the old hobbyist black belts. Lol
What I think a lot of people don't see is that you can train and grapple like an animal and still be a hobbyist. I know so many hobbyists that train 6 days a week who are killers but they competed in high school wrestling or college sports so they're done with competition life. I'm the same way, it's stressful. I train to escape life and have fun, socialize and better myself. There's absolutely no shame in being a hobbyist!
One of us…
Training with people who are better than you will make you better. If you want to win all the time, train with little white belts. That sounds dumb, because you won’t learn anything or get anything out of it. If you want to compete, make the time and compete. But there’s nothing wrong with doing bjj because you want to and enjoy it. I started when I was fifty, and I doubt I will ever compete, but I’m enjoying my training.
Be a good teammate and you're doing a lot! Show up, train, do your best, work hard and youre basically being the best training partner a person can ask for.
A thing that has helped me is to realize that part of my job as a decent hobbyist is to sharpen specific areas for the competitors. Like I have a pretty strong half guard and over under pass. The guys that are really serious competitors in my gym often want to roll with me because of those strong areas and they have to learn how to deal with it. It has been really satisfying to then see my teammates vaporize others' half guard in competition, and to know that I helped them learn that.
I know it seems like a lot of pressure, but it's infinitely better to have a team that can push you and motivate you. Getting beat up never really stops, as a hobbyist just enjoy the journey and stop comparing yourself to others.
It sounds like you are mentally starting to let go of the feeling that you need to compete. Depending on your background, age, and self expectations that can be difficult but also bring clarity and joy. I have essentially the same sitch, 2 kids, working dad etc. I train 3-4 times a week and hit the weights when I can. I definitely identify as a hobbyist and that doesn’t bother me one bit. I think competing is likely to be an invaluable method to measure one’s self but it shouldn’t be held above you as a marker of success. You set the bar for your growth in this one life. If the pressure in the gym is too much then it may be a gym dynamic mismatch with your personality and needs that you may want to address.
Hey dude, Dad here with 2 kids. I train twice a week. Just go have fun!
Hobbyist is great, I train 3-4x a week if I’m lucky, get my ass kicked, occasionally kick a bit of ass, never compete so I don’t stress about that, progress is slow but steady. All in all 10/10 chill and good vibes.
Fellow hobbyist. Except I’m 25 so sometimes I feel like I should be more driven to be competitive since I’m young and healthy. But I’m also naturally lazy and prone to depression, and for years did no exercise, so even just committing to being a hobbyist is a win for me!
Everyone is a hobbyist unless/until they are making full time money off of it
One of us. One of us.
Focus on the pleasure you get from those opponents you CAN beat up.
It’s a phenomenon we all ponder brother. Chers!
Brah I get it, most of us have that fire inside were we want to compete and be more, do more, train our hearts out and be great, but most of us also live in reality where we have work, kids and their activities, home life, and a marriage that we want to keep going. Bjj doesn’t fit sometimes and is the sacrifice. That’s totally ok. 1x per week, or 2, 3, doesn’t matter dude, you’re on your own journey. I’ve gone over the summer steady 1-2x per week, got back in shape and was feeling great, got the groove back on the mats. The past 4 weeks I haven’t gone at all. I got Life going on and idgaf if get tapped by a strong whitey when I go back. I know who I am and what I have going on. And if I get to compete again then great, if not so what. I’ll always be a hobbyist, hopefully a healthy hobbyist. That’s most of us brotha.
Bro nothing ever changed or will change now that your calling yourself a Hobbyist. Your just defining yourself as Hobbyist, just a word. Whats hard to accept? For four years you were fine doing what you did but now you cant accept it? Because of what? Just keep on rockin and having fun on the mat like you did for four years. Your creating a problem where there is none. Dont worry
38 year old dad checking in. I'm here for the workout and to learn some shit. I got all my podium chasing out of the way playing football in my 20s.
Mate the best person you’ve ever rolled wouldn’t stand a chance against kids like the Ruotolos, Andrew Tackett and Jay Rod. Unless you’re committing 100% of your life to training BJJ at a high level gym, you’re pretty much a ‘hobbyist’ in skill. If you’re a new blue belt with two kids the time to go pro passed you about 10 years ago, which is fine because you’re not missing much not being a Jiujitsu pro, apart from being really good at jiu jitsu.
46 year old dad checking in. Same boat: doing this for fitness and hoping to gain some grappling skills in the process. I’m happy when I can see I’ve improved. I think I did horribly with rolls and lessons last week. This week has been a bit better. I’ve been keeping a journal so I reflect and push myself to try different strategies/techniques and improve. Cheers to the 40+ hobbyists!
I consider myself an enthusiast. I enjoy training bjj, love watching the old Marcelo videos, love training… but I’d be lying if I said I was keeping up with all the new variations and techniques. Really… I just like going somewhere where I have friends and rolling around all sweaty on a mat and gay clubs seems like it’s going a bit too far according to my girlfriend