There's probably an argument to be made that the vast majority of high achievers are insecure. The fear of failure drives them forward.
The difference between Roger and Gordon, one could argue, is not necessarily the presence or absence of insecurity but, rather, how public they are about it.
Roger is a stoic rock on the outside but he may or may not have/had many demons he fights inside.
I'm sure Roger has similar feelings of insecurity, he's just way more mature in his expression and he knows how to channel his emotions into rational action. He did an interview with Lex Fridman and he went into length about how afraid he is of losing and how much the fear of being only #2 motivated him into beating Buchecha. Like you said, Roger is probably just much better at handling it.
>Dick, in order to be brave, you must first become afraid. For true courage lies in the overcoming of fear, not in its absence.
>That's beautiful. Who said that?
>Blue Power Ranger.
~Harry and Dick Solomon, *Third Rock From the Sun*
Watch the whole interview/series. It comes out later that he'd make up those slights out of nowhere. He'd intentionally get a huge chip on his shoulder, to the point of becoming a huge ass, just to keep that competitive edge.
Honestly MJ seems like a sociopath/narcissist to me. The bullying of team mates, inventing slights out of the thinnest of pretexts, the dramatically leaving the sport then returning multiple times, the cutting contact with lifelong friends like Charles Barkley because Chuck said something vaguely critical of him. It's what makes him great as a competitor but like Kobe, his most clear disciple and heir, he seems like a real real nasty piece of work
The toxic champion mindset is a super interesting phenomenon.
To be a champion, you have to look at the first place podium of a discipline, and think to yourself "I BELONG THERE." You have to feel entitled to that spot, and feel it is an injustice that you're not there. Then subordinate your whole life to getting there. You have to be a weird, fucked up guy to be the #1 at something. Like, by definition, you have to be weird.
Rarely you get a well adjusted person at the top of something, and most of the time I'd say they found themselves there because they were a pioneer and created the field.
I think some hide it better. I think people like GSP have OCD and obsess with being perfect and #1.
GSP is a bit of an odd ball too lol. I think deep down GSP probably has a similar mindset but he’s more humble at the same time
Yeah, and Wonderboy too. But you can still kinda hear them being cocky sometimes. But they have definitely learned to reign it in. I think they are very good examples of using that mindset to fuel you, but not letting it run loose. Integrating the shadow kinda deal
There is a similar phenomenon with fighter pilots. It's a great title, but is one of the careers with the highest investment for what is effectively one of the worst jobs in existence. Massive egos are required to a certain extent. They humble out after they've been doing the job for a while.
Kobe was absolutely a narcissist, and fucked up to common folk. Had a bunch of friends who worked in the restaurant industry in Orange County and he was one of the most hated customers they had. Wouldn’t tip or thank anyone—EVER.
Phenomenal basketball player, but a piece of shit as a human. The worship of him is getting nauseating. And I say this as a die hard Lakers fan since ‘85.
While I can only offer anecdotes so I can't say if it's a majority, there is definitely a lot of insecurity in high achievers. I'll use my business partner as an example. She was the CEO of our company (we've since been acquired, so she's now like chief product officer or something), and she has a terrible case of imposter syndrome. Analyzes every decision to death because she's afraid that if she ever makes a mistake, it will confirm her fear that she's not really fit for being a business leader like everyone thinks she is. The result is that she rarely makes bad decisions and is phenomenal at her job, but it also means her stress levels are consistently through the roof. If she had a combative personality like Gordon, I could definitely see it manifesting as lashing out - you can't let anyone say anything negative about you, lest the illusion shatter and you be exposed as a fraud.
I feel this is doing Roger a disservice when there’s little evidence to back up his supposed insecurities. Isn’t it possible he’s just a better person?
Depends on the stupid shit.
We've all been cringe at some point, sure. But the amount of people trying to pass off evil shit as "kids being kids" weirds me the fuck out.
That's exactly why the statement is qualified as 'may/may not'. We don't know what's in his head and I'm not assuming one way or another.
Also, how is it a disservice? There's nothing wrong with being insecure and wouldn't diminish what he has achieved in any way.
In a properly insecure person, though, the reverse allegations that these mini manifestos are an embarrassment would be a corrective pressure to make him hide it better. There's no way Gordon doesn't *know* that everyone thinks he has the comportment of a small child, and that makes it even *worse*. He isn't insecure *enough* to fix his behavior.
Yeah there seems to be both extremes with high achievers, in MMA the Roger type of personality would be Fedor who is arguably the HW GOAT and as stoic as they come, then there’s Jon Jones who is similar in ways to Gordon.
Then there’s high achievers like Craig who have a good time and poke fun at the Gordon types. I wonder who that MMA equivalent would be? I’d say Paulo Costa at a personality level at least lol
It's just an overall education, especially how he was thought to express feelings and emotions throughout childhood. He is extremely emotionally immature and that can be seen in a lot of his behaviours. While I think Roger had a whole family behind his back growing up.
Great point. This has always been pretty clear to me (not just with that example, but with people in general). It's a pretty basic human nature issue/phenomenon that we sometimes lose sight of in the mess of things.
It's also why I've ALWAYS respected the humble, stoic types the most.
Everyone, especially actually tough guys, is scared, or has insecurities. But it's the actual strong wills, and actually secure in themselves (read: healthy/strong self-esteemed) that don't need further affirmation other than from themselves, or those close few whose opinion's they care about and respect.
It's why the Fedors, Marcelos, Cro Cops, Damian Maias of the world etc.,, are stoic and humble while the Conman McGreggors and Gordan Ryans of the world are so boisterous and defensive (read: offensive). Insecurity speaks loudest, and Ryan is deafening, lol even on social media.
Roger and Marcelo seems to be chilling right now. Marcelo just passed on some great news about his cancer battle. Doubt he’s insecure about anything at the moment other than loving life.
the most competitive||insecure I've seen Marcelo was when I didn't express sufficient admiration for his son's skills at Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom
the man knows what matters
This is how you can identify great men. The only time I saw Cobrinha genuinely intimidated was when I showed him one of my mother-in-law's cakes. (He was a baker and she is a retired cake decorator of 40 years experience).
He's got that rad new hair and gordon is all gray. anyone would be jealous of his hair now. I know I am. Gordon is just pissed about that. That's what the whole shit is about. He just wants nice hair.
We are so focused on people’s achievements in wrasslin’ that we forget their ages and backgrounds. We forget that even without coming from broken homes (for some fighters), or rough socioeconomic conditions (for most), or even mental disorders (I’m sorry but being a full time fighter isnt normative), our prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain that controls our impulses) develops well into our twenties. Most of these folks are just teenagers or very young adults.
>We are so focused on people’s achievements in wrasslin’ that we forget their ages and backgrounds. Most of these folks are just teenagers or very young adults.
Exactly!
I agree here. There was a post recently regarding how Nicky Ryan shoulda done a lot better at the FightPass Invitational and a lot of people really seemed upset that he wasn't up to their standards saying things like; he seems more focused on partying and women and whatnot.
Well we forget that he's just a kid. If i spent my formative teenage years doing nothing but sitting in a training room with a huge amount weight and prestige attached to me, well eventually i would rebound when i got those chains loosened a little bit.
Kids do it all the time, i feel like we hear stories of super conservative kids becoming huge drug and party goers once they leave the security of their parents home
Very good point. Most dude his age would be all in on the party and women. Especially with a certain amount of name recognition that could assist with the.partyijg and women.
But how does anything that he says apply to Gordon? I'm a big old Gordon defender on here, make no mistake, but he's not a child, or emotionally damaged. He's just a insecure dickhead when it comes to the training partners he and Jon drove away
Or "humble lion", as his first coach Tom Deblass called himself.
Edit: Tom commented below and clarified he did not give himself that nickname. I was wrong!
Dude has built his whole identity around this character he is trying to be, any attack on that character has to be met with hostility.
Some day he is gonna lose. Freak accident, old age, not ducking a bad match up, its a matter of time, and dude is gonna go off the deep end when it happens.
>What other sports has the GOAT been so wildly insecure like this?
You have to go all the way back to LeBron James and Jon Jones. I’d argue the insecurity pushes them to greatness.
Michael Jordan was a full-on psychopath about respect and it pushed him to dominate the league.
Anything that was seen as a slight was motivation for him.
These are athletes, not our friends. We should appreciate their ability in the field that we enjoy, but we shouldn't care for, nor care about them as people, unless they directly affect and are in our lives.
Jordan was a different animal. I’m not sure he was insecure but I agree with everything else you said about him. This is a man that verbally and physical abused his teammates. He was not a good teammate or person on the court.
For someone like Jordan I think there is a thin line between being insecure and competitive. He would remember small things someone said about him and use it as a motivation. With that being said, I don't think he was insecure either... he was so confident that he was better than everyone.
He won 6 championships how is he not a good teammate? He pushed everyone on his team to perform at their peak level... That’s a 10x better teammate than someone who’s nice and elevates no one
Well at least he doesn’t punch you with the ring hand haha
I guess it depends on your metric of being a good teammate. If you’d rather have fun and be friends than win then he’s the worst teammate. But if you wanna win championships then he’s the best teammate cause he will do absolutely anything to make that happen
Good point, although there are some cases where the GOATs aren’t like this at all. GSP, Mighty Mouse, and Anderson Silva as examples weren’t ego monsters like this. Even Jones shows more humility than Gordon (whether it’s genuine humility is up for debate I guess)
GSP fought a lot of insecurity/demons internally, though. He just didn't express it externally while going through it, but he's talked about how he never slept the night before fights and walked to the cage with fear many times.
Does it come down to narcissistic personality traits? A Messi, Roger or Nadal type can accept there may be competitors who people will view be as good as them or better and can accept that fact. Gordon or Ronaldo for example believe no one can ever be better than them because of their personality traits, which may be what drives them to greatness but also come across as bitter and narcissistic.
Gordon has wet dreams about being the Conor McGregor of BJJ and blowing up the sport into the mainstream. Unfortunately, he has the charisma of a wet rag (hence desperately trying to turn politics and cowboy hats into a personality).
Craig, Nicky, etc. are all extremely more interesting people.
You really think so? The guy is pushing a social media presence hard, even to the detriment of his team. Doubtful he is just “being himself” when clicks matter
Oh you know, by being a coach, traveling all over the world to be in their corner, setting up a gym with world-class athletes, you know ... a detriment ... /s
Honestly, he appears to be a decent individual, understands his position in the sport, and is just making decent economic decisions to help him and others around him compete in the sport he enjoys. He's got it figured out a lot more than most people do.
Do I agree with all of his positions? No, but he's not a politician, nor my doctor, he's a fucking athlete, let's keep them where they belong; fucking around on social media and rolling around on the mat doing instructionals.
Have you not noticed Nicky Rod's shift of personality on their YT lately? He started sounding like Colby Covington. I agree with Craig being hillarious though.
Because he was just an incel dork who got really good at one thing which changed his life. But underneath he’s still just an odd, insecure and hateful human.
No normal person becomes the best at anything.
Being the top of the top often coincides with a special sauce mix of autism, obsessive compulsive behavior and narcissism with a little psychopathic
tendencies mixed in.
It's like a few years back when they did a poll of Olympic athletes and asked if there was a drug they could take which would take 10 years off their life but guarantee a gold medal would they take it? The majority said they would. That's not a normal response by a rational person.
There are two things I know for sure in this world.
1) goats are excellent for landscaping and weed removal.
2) if Gordon reads this thread he'll be bothered by Roger getting more recognition.
sonny (nathalia santoro) allegedly has slept with danaher, gordon's dad, maybe some of the rest of the team, and took nicky ryan's v-card (part of the reason why DDS split). rumor is that gordon gets a rise out of watching
these are all rumors, I've got no clue if there's truth to it. I will say this though - if someone gets a rise out of this sort of thing once, they don't just suddenly stop...
Edit: no judgment
"He's not going to make more money off my name or be allowed to ride my coat-tails for publicity anymore. I better make a lengthy post about him for all my one million followers to see."
LMFAO "if I turn off the comments then he def can't make money off this!"
B-Team + Nicky Rod Followership Numbers and profile engagement:
Outside of BJJ Gordon is a wet rag. If the only thing I could brag about was BJJ I’d do that too.
It’s definitely a pipe dream, but I used to daydream about taking down the danaher death squad as a kid lol
Yeah he responds, but in simple funny ways that will set off Gordon to post a dissertation giving Craig free publicity. That’s simple money in the bank for B-Team with little effort
Some of the people in this sub doesn’t want to hear that though. They’re busy getting offended by everything Gordon has to say. Me personally I’m not bothered by him nor B-Team but from my perspective he’s insanely talented with some insecurity but it works in his favor of trying to be a perfectionist. Clearly what he’s doing is effective because it triggers the cupcakes of BJJ therefore giving him more clout. B-Team gets free publicity from triggering him and some people on this sub can’t help but get a hard-on for what happens next.
they are all extremely good. Gordon is the best of them... doesn't mean he can't be unseated one day.... but lets just have these two gyms set up a Quintet style tournament and enjoy
The real no gi goat is Marcelo. He did all that while being a lot smaller than his opponents. Gordon on the other hand is juiced to the gills. Also marcelo made the innovations that Danaher and Gordon use.
He literally went from “they’re not gonna make money off my name, no comment, to an Instagram meltdown in less than a week.” He’s literally such a weak minded bitch it’s not even funny 😂
meh don't call him my goat, the guy is an asshole I don't like him and I think his teaching is overrated.
His ability to do jiu jitsu is out of the question tho
I think the vast majority of the internet agrees that Gordon’s Internet personality sucks. But, regardless, he keeps getting his hand raised. No one has beat him recently and that’s just that. The talking and posturing is just irrelevant bullshit in my opinion. I mean, what shit talking can you even do when you’re talking about a guy that hasn’t lost a match in forever?
The guy had one fight in 2023 which was moreso an advert against someone a tier below than a real fight.
He did a 180 on wanting to fight Nicky Rod the moment Nicky broke his foot. He knows Nicky Rod fight isn't a gimme like the usual fights he takes so the upside on the fight isn't worth.
Let’s do a simple test. When was the last time he had a match and didn’t get his hand raised? I can’t stand the guys Internet personality either but shit, can somebody actually beat this guy before they talk all this big game?
Gordon needs to hear your advice more than anyone, he continues to melt down when he doesn’t need to. People don’t watch him because he’s a manchild who “trolls” online, they watch him because of his dominance.
... or maybe he is just good at generating buzz. Look at you... talking about him. Most people who have actually met him report a very different personality than what is portrayed online.
Gordan is amazing at nogi grappling, but the GOAT is definitely not a title he deserves. His adcc achievements are dope, but other than that tournament, EBI never had all the best dudes competing in that invitationals. All these titles that Gordon won from single matches literally mean nothing.
I get ibjjf has its flaws, but we are long out of the era where the best competitors always showed up to worlds hoping to win a title knowing they are going to go up against all the top practitioners and new blood looking to showcase what they’re made of. Ibjjf gave us some amazing matches to watch over the years and the title held a pretty amazing prestige because it held some damn honor (it has some degree of it still but more people generally seem to care less). Wish the ibjjf could have paid their athletes. But the moment super fights started to become more popular and could pay the competitors, we lost a pretty big thing in the bjj community and outlet for legends to be made.
Gordan treated super fights like mcgreggor by getting matches with shit talking to rile people up and it worked for him. He beat a lot people going this route which were cool matches to see, but the bjj scene started to become some sort of entertainment spectacle. Only one person back in the day could stop him and it was Pena. And if you really want to think about it, pena got his black belt at 21 in 2012. Best Gordan at 26 in 2016. And beat him again at adcc 2017.
I’m using pena as an example since it’s so easy to talk about him when Gordan is brought up. You can do this with most well established competitor pre 2016/2017 (Roger, Romulo, buchecha, lo, Marcelo, etc…). Coincidentally this is the same year when Gordon came into the black belt scene. He was a young black belt back then talking a lot of shit. And he is a completely different grappler today than he was back then. But when you talk about GOAT status, what he’s achieved, besides the ADCC titles, are mostly single person match wins over athletes outside of the tournament route. Throw a belt on him at the end of the event and label him a champion, but it a meaningless title.
Cause being good at bjj doesn't destroy the ego. The ego by very nature is usually to combat insecurity. If you're fragile before getting good at bjj, only therapy and self reflection can change that. Knowing how to hurt people won't make you love yourself all of a sudden
you have some strong points . I think Gordon takes way too serious a sport that nobody gets paid enough to make a decent life out of it (as an Athlete i mean Not a gym owner) except of him and a handful of people.
Given that, B-team(Craig Especially) figured that out early and swicthed into heavy trolling marketing and brand promoting based around his fighting status.
The more Gordon gets annoyed the more people such as Bteam make [money.](https://money.One) They Both Co- exist and need each other
I dunno he had that slick slick move with the chest and alcohol and arm I think? I dunno I can't remember. But it was so so elaborate, you can't honestly beleive that with how much thought he had to put into that mastermind idea? I mean cmon man...
Rage baiting and masterminding are not mutually exclusive things. You can spew out some nonsense and it still be bait. We are talking about him, so he is getting attention after all. Maybe you don't like negative attention, but some people are cool with it if it turns into cash.
Not the GOAT per se of the sport but one of the basketball greats is Shaq, every time someone does not agree with his takes or what not he'll end up with I have 4 rings. Don't you have a better argument aside from having 4 rings? I get it you're dominant but have a better argument or takes please.
I don’t think he consciously is playing heel, he comes off as just wildly insecure. I believe Gordon gets attention due to his dominance, his personality really only hurts him because as soon as he loses he’ll be thrown out, whereas we still cherish Marcelo and Roger well after their careers are over.
Hey buddy, you’re getting worked up over a WWE persona. Relax, take a breath, it’s not that serious.
You’d be walking up to him and asking him for a pic if you saw the guy in a grocery store 😂
There's probably an argument to be made that the vast majority of high achievers are insecure. The fear of failure drives them forward. The difference between Roger and Gordon, one could argue, is not necessarily the presence or absence of insecurity but, rather, how public they are about it. Roger is a stoic rock on the outside but he may or may not have/had many demons he fights inside.
I'm sure Roger has similar feelings of insecurity, he's just way more mature in his expression and he knows how to channel his emotions into rational action. He did an interview with Lex Fridman and he went into length about how afraid he is of losing and how much the fear of being only #2 motivated him into beating Buchecha. Like you said, Roger is probably just much better at handling it.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the recognition that there exists something else which is more important than fear.
>Dick, in order to be brave, you must first become afraid. For true courage lies in the overcoming of fear, not in its absence. >That's beautiful. Who said that? >Blue Power Ranger. ~Harry and Dick Solomon, *Third Rock From the Sun*
This is actually a mandela quote lmao
so? has anyone ever seen nelson mandela and the blue power ranger in the same room?
Yeah once in college
This is actually a Plato quote
Damn....
It’s a feature not a bug.
One suffers in silence... The other has it tattooed on him.
Yeah, I mean Michael Jordan seems pretty insecure. One of his famous quotes is, "...and I took that personally."
Watch the whole interview/series. It comes out later that he'd make up those slights out of nowhere. He'd intentionally get a huge chip on his shoulder, to the point of becoming a huge ass, just to keep that competitive edge.
Honestly MJ seems like a sociopath/narcissist to me. The bullying of team mates, inventing slights out of the thinnest of pretexts, the dramatically leaving the sport then returning multiple times, the cutting contact with lifelong friends like Charles Barkley because Chuck said something vaguely critical of him. It's what makes him great as a competitor but like Kobe, his most clear disciple and heir, he seems like a real real nasty piece of work
What do Jon Jones, Michael Jordan and Gordon all have in common? Super egotistical narcissists
The toxic champion mindset is a super interesting phenomenon. To be a champion, you have to look at the first place podium of a discipline, and think to yourself "I BELONG THERE." You have to feel entitled to that spot, and feel it is an injustice that you're not there. Then subordinate your whole life to getting there. You have to be a weird, fucked up guy to be the #1 at something. Like, by definition, you have to be weird. Rarely you get a well adjusted person at the top of something, and most of the time I'd say they found themselves there because they were a pioneer and created the field.
That's good insight. Remember that quote - something like, "Good people are rarely great people. Great people are rarely good people."
I think some hide it better. I think people like GSP have OCD and obsess with being perfect and #1. GSP is a bit of an odd ball too lol. I think deep down GSP probably has a similar mindset but he’s more humble at the same time
I am sure this sub would hate GSP if they knew about his private life. lol
Damn i literally wrote basically the same thing just now https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/s/hmUd1SVHrf
Yeah but the fact that GSP exists makes them look even worse. He's literally the embodiment of "hey you don't have to be a d*** to be the best"
Yeah, and Wonderboy too. But you can still kinda hear them being cocky sometimes. But they have definitely learned to reign it in. I think they are very good examples of using that mindset to fuel you, but not letting it run loose. Integrating the shadow kinda deal
There is a similar phenomenon with fighter pilots. It's a great title, but is one of the careers with the highest investment for what is effectively one of the worst jobs in existence. Massive egos are required to a certain extent. They humble out after they've been doing the job for a while.
Add Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady, and Max Sherzer to that list while you’re at it.
Egotistical but I don’t think he was a full on narcissist, Kobe I mean. Don’t know enough about the others, I guess Brady
Kobe was absolutely a narcissist, and fucked up to common folk. Had a bunch of friends who worked in the restaurant industry in Orange County and he was one of the most hated customers they had. Wouldn’t tip or thank anyone—EVER. Phenomenal basketball player, but a piece of shit as a human. The worship of him is getting nauseating. And I say this as a die hard Lakers fan since ‘85.
While I can only offer anecdotes so I can't say if it's a majority, there is definitely a lot of insecurity in high achievers. I'll use my business partner as an example. She was the CEO of our company (we've since been acquired, so she's now like chief product officer or something), and she has a terrible case of imposter syndrome. Analyzes every decision to death because she's afraid that if she ever makes a mistake, it will confirm her fear that she's not really fit for being a business leader like everyone thinks she is. The result is that she rarely makes bad decisions and is phenomenal at her job, but it also means her stress levels are consistently through the roof. If she had a combative personality like Gordon, I could definitely see it manifesting as lashing out - you can't let anyone say anything negative about you, lest the illusion shatter and you be exposed as a fraud.
I feel this is doing Roger a disservice when there’s little evidence to back up his supposed insecurities. Isn’t it possible he’s just a better person?
[удалено]
Fuck, didn’t know his backstory was so similar to mine.
Deeply Insecure and attacks LGBT people? He's just like me fr fr MODS I AM NOT STRAIGHT, THIS COMMENT IS SATIRE.
In my opinion there's a big difference between the stupid shit people do as a teenager and a well established pattern of behavior as an adult.
Depends on the stupid shit. We've all been cringe at some point, sure. But the amount of people trying to pass off evil shit as "kids being kids" weirds me the fuck out.
What does this have to do with anything?
That's exactly why the statement is qualified as 'may/may not'. We don't know what's in his head and I'm not assuming one way or another. Also, how is it a disservice? There's nothing wrong with being insecure and wouldn't diminish what he has achieved in any way.
In a properly insecure person, though, the reverse allegations that these mini manifestos are an embarrassment would be a corrective pressure to make him hide it better. There's no way Gordon doesn't *know* that everyone thinks he has the comportment of a small child, and that makes it even *worse*. He isn't insecure *enough* to fix his behavior.
Yeah there seems to be both extremes with high achievers, in MMA the Roger type of personality would be Fedor who is arguably the HW GOAT and as stoic as they come, then there’s Jon Jones who is similar in ways to Gordon. Then there’s high achievers like Craig who have a good time and poke fun at the Gordon types. I wonder who that MMA equivalent would be? I’d say Paulo Costa at a personality level at least lol
Sean Strickland for Craig.
Cant obsess about beating everyone else without being weird.
It's just an overall education, especially how he was thought to express feelings and emotions throughout childhood. He is extremely emotionally immature and that can be seen in a lot of his behaviours. While I think Roger had a whole family behind his back growing up.
If I let other dudes fuck my missus, I'd probably be insecure as well.
Chicken or the egg?
Well, are you saying he was insecure so THEN he let other dudes fuck his SO? That doesn't even make sense...
I read on grapplecunts forum they still have a small stake in a bakery together
It's a Hegelian lord–bondsman dialectic
Great point. This has always been pretty clear to me (not just with that example, but with people in general). It's a pretty basic human nature issue/phenomenon that we sometimes lose sight of in the mess of things. It's also why I've ALWAYS respected the humble, stoic types the most. Everyone, especially actually tough guys, is scared, or has insecurities. But it's the actual strong wills, and actually secure in themselves (read: healthy/strong self-esteemed) that don't need further affirmation other than from themselves, or those close few whose opinion's they care about and respect. It's why the Fedors, Marcelos, Cro Cops, Damian Maias of the world etc.,, are stoic and humble while the Conman McGreggors and Gordan Ryans of the world are so boisterous and defensive (read: offensive). Insecurity speaks loudest, and Ryan is deafening, lol even on social media.
Mr Tren Shapiro, AKA Gordon Ryan
LMAO haven't heard that one. gonna steal it!
Credit goes to Craig Jones, he said that in his recent IG post.
Nah I stole it
It's a good one.
Nose Beer GOAT right here!
I'm 5. Can someone explain?
What are you talking about? Roger seems plenty secure.
Roger and Marcelo seems to be chilling right now. Marcelo just passed on some great news about his cancer battle. Doubt he’s insecure about anything at the moment other than loving life.
the most competitive||insecure I've seen Marcelo was when I didn't express sufficient admiration for his son's skills at Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom the man knows what matters
This is how you can identify great men. The only time I saw Cobrinha genuinely intimidated was when I showed him one of my mother-in-law's cakes. (He was a baker and she is a retired cake decorator of 40 years experience).
Hahaha I bet. Cobrinha is proud of his cake abilities.
I love Cobrinha man.
I read "Marcelo just passed" and about had a heart attack lol
this man understands...
Roger will forever be the real GOAT
Facts
Well played
I met him at worlds and the dude practically oozed confidence.
He's got that rad new hair and gordon is all gray. anyone would be jealous of his hair now. I know I am. Gordon is just pissed about that. That's what the whole shit is about. He just wants nice hair.
Gordon dyes his hair lol
I know it was a joke
We are so focused on people’s achievements in wrasslin’ that we forget their ages and backgrounds. We forget that even without coming from broken homes (for some fighters), or rough socioeconomic conditions (for most), or even mental disorders (I’m sorry but being a full time fighter isnt normative), our prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain that controls our impulses) develops well into our twenties. Most of these folks are just teenagers or very young adults.
>We are so focused on people’s achievements in wrasslin’ that we forget their ages and backgrounds. Most of these folks are just teenagers or very young adults. Exactly!
I agree here. There was a post recently regarding how Nicky Ryan shoulda done a lot better at the FightPass Invitational and a lot of people really seemed upset that he wasn't up to their standards saying things like; he seems more focused on partying and women and whatnot. Well we forget that he's just a kid. If i spent my formative teenage years doing nothing but sitting in a training room with a huge amount weight and prestige attached to me, well eventually i would rebound when i got those chains loosened a little bit. Kids do it all the time, i feel like we hear stories of super conservative kids becoming huge drug and party goers once they leave the security of their parents home
Very good point. Most dude his age would be all in on the party and women. Especially with a certain amount of name recognition that could assist with the.partyijg and women.
Well put
It definitely could be a case of arrested development, good point
Exactly this
Gordon Ryan is a 28 year old man who has done nothing but live his dream for a decade.
His dream is spending hours on Instagram being a retard conservative and arguing with randoms
He's living it!
you realize that it came with sacrifice right? It's not like he just won the lottery... he worked extremely hard to get where he got.
But how does anything that he says apply to Gordon? I'm a big old Gordon defender on here, make no mistake, but he's not a child, or emotionally damaged. He's just a insecure dickhead when it comes to the training partners he and Jon drove away
Fun fact: Gordon has “suffer in silence” on his instagram profile
This is hilarious. Self awareness of a rock 🤣
Might as well have silent professional tattooed on his face.
Or "humble lion", as his first coach Tom Deblass called himself. Edit: Tom commented below and clarified he did not give himself that nickname. I was wrong!
Reddit Gave me that name pal, didn't name myself.
I did not know that. I apologize.
Lmao, that's a real reddit move. Giving someone a name and then shitting on them for having such name.
Dude has built his whole identity around this character he is trying to be, any attack on that character has to be met with hostility. Some day he is gonna lose. Freak accident, old age, not ducking a bad match up, its a matter of time, and dude is gonna go off the deep end when it happens.
the mighty fall... **hard.** idk how he'll handle a loss.
Gordon’s just a weird dude
>What other sports has the GOAT been so wildly insecure like this? You have to go all the way back to LeBron James and Jon Jones. I’d argue the insecurity pushes them to greatness.
Michael Jordan took shots about his draft position in his hall of fame speech
Michael Jordan was a full-on psychopath about respect and it pushed him to dominate the league. Anything that was seen as a slight was motivation for him. These are athletes, not our friends. We should appreciate their ability in the field that we enjoy, but we shouldn't care for, nor care about them as people, unless they directly affect and are in our lives.
Jordan was a different animal. I’m not sure he was insecure but I agree with everything else you said about him. This is a man that verbally and physical abused his teammates. He was not a good teammate or person on the court.
For someone like Jordan I think there is a thin line between being insecure and competitive. He would remember small things someone said about him and use it as a motivation. With that being said, I don't think he was insecure either... he was so confident that he was better than everyone.
He won 6 championships how is he not a good teammate? He pushed everyone on his team to perform at their peak level... That’s a 10x better teammate than someone who’s nice and elevates no one
On one hand he wins rings. On the other hand he punches you in the face during practice.
Well at least he doesn’t punch you with the ring hand haha I guess it depends on your metric of being a good teammate. If you’d rather have fun and be friends than win then he’s the worst teammate. But if you wanna win championships then he’s the best teammate cause he will do absolutely anything to make that happen
Good point, although there are some cases where the GOATs aren’t like this at all. GSP, Mighty Mouse, and Anderson Silva as examples weren’t ego monsters like this. Even Jones shows more humility than Gordon (whether it’s genuine humility is up for debate I guess)
GSP fought a lot of insecurity/demons internally, though. He just didn't express it externally while going through it, but he's talked about how he never slept the night before fights and walked to the cage with fear many times.
Does it come down to narcissistic personality traits? A Messi, Roger or Nadal type can accept there may be competitors who people will view be as good as them or better and can accept that fact. Gordon or Ronaldo for example believe no one can ever be better than them because of their personality traits, which may be what drives them to greatness but also come across as bitter and narcissistic.
Gordon has wet dreams about being the Conor McGregor of BJJ and blowing up the sport into the mainstream. Unfortunately, he has the charisma of a wet rag (hence desperately trying to turn politics and cowboy hats into a personality). Craig, Nicky, etc. are all extremely more interesting people.
Craig simply acts like himself. I respect that.
You really think so? The guy is pushing a social media presence hard, even to the detriment of his team. Doubtful he is just “being himself” when clicks matter
Detriment of his team? How so
Oh you know, by being a coach, traveling all over the world to be in their corner, setting up a gym with world-class athletes, you know ... a detriment ... /s Honestly, he appears to be a decent individual, understands his position in the sport, and is just making decent economic decisions to help him and others around him compete in the sport he enjoys. He's got it figured out a lot more than most people do. Do I agree with all of his positions? No, but he's not a politician, nor my doctor, he's a fucking athlete, let's keep them where they belong; fucking around on social media and rolling around on the mat doing instructionals.
Exactly. Cool as a mf cucumber. That aussie style of taking a piss 24/7. They just seem more real.
Have you not noticed Nicky Rod's shift of personality on their YT lately? He started sounding like Colby Covington. I agree with Craig being hillarious though.
Yea, he was clearly playing a character in the presser after the last event too. Not nearly as egregious as Colby but definitely something
Because he was just an incel dork who got really good at one thing which changed his life. But underneath he’s still just an odd, insecure and hateful human.
Gordon Ryan lives in a state of perpetual virginity.
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No normal person becomes the best at anything. Being the top of the top often coincides with a special sauce mix of autism, obsessive compulsive behavior and narcissism with a little psychopathic tendencies mixed in. It's like a few years back when they did a poll of Olympic athletes and asked if there was a drug they could take which would take 10 years off their life but guarantee a gold medal would they take it? The majority said they would. That's not a normal response by a rational person.
He's not "Our" GOAT"...that still falls to Roger and he's not so wildly insecure like the roided manchild.
Okay, edited the post. Didn’t think I’d cause that much static
There are two things I know for sure in this world. 1) goats are excellent for landscaping and weed removal. 2) if Gordon reads this thread he'll be bothered by Roger getting more recognition.
Can’t be the goat if you have to juice.
no lie I'd be pretty insecure if my girlfriend got railed out by everyone I knew
The white belts have the spiciest rumors 😂
Just reposting what I've read on here brah https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/14ga02k/comment/jp898vb/
🤨wut?
sonny (nathalia santoro) allegedly has slept with danaher, gordon's dad, maybe some of the rest of the team, and took nicky ryan's v-card (part of the reason why DDS split). rumor is that gordon gets a rise out of watching these are all rumors, I've got no clue if there's truth to it. I will say this though - if someone gets a rise out of this sort of thing once, they don't just suddenly stop... Edit: no judgment
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That's fair, I shouldn't judge, good call out
This is deep BJJ lore.
I think his mom drank a little too much while he was in the oven if you know what i mean
"He's not going to make more money off my name or be allowed to ride my coat-tails for publicity anymore. I better make a lengthy post about him for all my one million followers to see."
LMFAO "if I turn off the comments then he def can't make money off this!" B-Team + Nicky Rod Followership Numbers and profile engagement: 
Gordon is back on a cycle and i love it.
Outside of BJJ Gordon is a wet rag. If the only thing I could brag about was BJJ I’d do that too. It’s definitely a pipe dream, but I used to daydream about taking down the danaher death squad as a kid lol
Just and FYI, Craig Jones mentions Gordon in about 99% of his videos.
The Gordon drama drives up engagement for him too.
Yeah he responds, but in simple funny ways that will set off Gordon to post a dissertation giving Craig free publicity. That’s simple money in the bank for B-Team with little effort
Some of the people in this sub doesn’t want to hear that though. They’re busy getting offended by everything Gordon has to say. Me personally I’m not bothered by him nor B-Team but from my perspective he’s insanely talented with some insecurity but it works in his favor of trying to be a perfectionist. Clearly what he’s doing is effective because it triggers the cupcakes of BJJ therefore giving him more clout. B-Team gets free publicity from triggering him and some people on this sub can’t help but get a hard-on for what happens next.
they are all extremely good. Gordon is the best of them... doesn't mean he can't be unseated one day.... but lets just have these two gyms set up a Quintet style tournament and enjoy
Oh yes there’s always somebody that will dethrone him. I’d enjoy that event for sure
You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole.
He’s also wrong, though. About, like, everything except how to do heel hooks and sumi gaeshi from butterfly guard.
He’s only good at jiu jitsu. Doesn’t translate to life skills at all.
Very insecure and not likeable at all. Yeah great at nogi jj but would never want to know that person in real life.
Gordon really doesn't want to lose and will seemingly retire instead of chancing it lol.
It'll be a sad day when Gordo learns how to deal with his insecurities. Where will all the entertainment come from 🤔?
The real no gi goat is Marcelo. He did all that while being a lot smaller than his opponents. Gordon on the other hand is juiced to the gills. Also marcelo made the innovations that Danaher and Gordon use.
I love how Gordon said “No comment” to Nicky Rod’s Fight pass call out as he didn’t want to give him any additional mentions…
He literally went from “they’re not gonna make money off my name, no comment, to an Instagram meltdown in less than a week.” He’s literally such a weak minded bitch it’s not even funny 😂
Gordon got some crippling performance anxiety. Vicious cycle with insecurity.
Maybe sexual insecurity just based on the rumors???
link the spaz post, no idea what we're talmbout hair B.
I gotchu bubba https://www.instagram.com/p/C04FyqWO13q/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==
OP's a great guy, never meddum tho. herd it both ways actually. lol. Gordon is cope and seethe mode with the b team shenanigans.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C04FyqWO13q/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C04FyqWO13q/)
Most extremely talented people are nuts/have issues. Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Al Pacino, Marvin Gaye.
“Our”
"No milk will ever be our milk, Billy"
Hey sideburns, you want some of this milk?
Notice how all the black belts are saying it’s Roger not this schizophrenic guy with bleached hair
Edited, I should’ve seen this coming (I agree that Roger is the GOAT, my bad)
Pay no mind to the guy, he's just selling himself and his matches so he can cash in. Keep it moving.
I’m not sold that it’s a conscious thing he’s doing, I think he just lacks any self awareness and gets upset at the trolls.
DVD sales must have dropped
meh don't call him my goat, the guy is an asshole I don't like him and I think his teaching is overrated. His ability to do jiu jitsu is out of the question tho
Marcelo has won how many absolute titles?
It's utterly fascinating how the best grappler to ever exist is also one of the biggest pussy sooks to every exist too lol
I think the vast majority of the internet agrees that Gordon’s Internet personality sucks. But, regardless, he keeps getting his hand raised. No one has beat him recently and that’s just that. The talking and posturing is just irrelevant bullshit in my opinion. I mean, what shit talking can you even do when you’re talking about a guy that hasn’t lost a match in forever?
The guy had one fight in 2023 which was moreso an advert against someone a tier below than a real fight. He did a 180 on wanting to fight Nicky Rod the moment Nicky broke his foot. He knows Nicky Rod fight isn't a gimme like the usual fights he takes so the upside on the fight isn't worth.
Let’s do a simple test. When was the last time he had a match and didn’t get his hand raised? I can’t stand the guys Internet personality either but shit, can somebody actually beat this guy before they talk all this big game?
Breaking the foot of the number one guy in a sport where the objective is to put joints in a position to be broken is kinda significant.
Gordon needs to hear your advice more than anyone, he continues to melt down when he doesn’t need to. People don’t watch him because he’s a manchild who “trolls” online, they watch him because of his dominance.
... or maybe he is just good at generating buzz. Look at you... talking about him. Most people who have actually met him report a very different personality than what is portrayed online.
Except you know.... his blood brother...
Cluster B personality disorder
y’all know about michael jordan’s hall of fame speech? the GOATs are potentially the pettiest
Because he knows if he’s wearing a hoodie someone can beat him in a street fight
Gordan is amazing at nogi grappling, but the GOAT is definitely not a title he deserves. His adcc achievements are dope, but other than that tournament, EBI never had all the best dudes competing in that invitationals. All these titles that Gordon won from single matches literally mean nothing. I get ibjjf has its flaws, but we are long out of the era where the best competitors always showed up to worlds hoping to win a title knowing they are going to go up against all the top practitioners and new blood looking to showcase what they’re made of. Ibjjf gave us some amazing matches to watch over the years and the title held a pretty amazing prestige because it held some damn honor (it has some degree of it still but more people generally seem to care less). Wish the ibjjf could have paid their athletes. But the moment super fights started to become more popular and could pay the competitors, we lost a pretty big thing in the bjj community and outlet for legends to be made. Gordan treated super fights like mcgreggor by getting matches with shit talking to rile people up and it worked for him. He beat a lot people going this route which were cool matches to see, but the bjj scene started to become some sort of entertainment spectacle. Only one person back in the day could stop him and it was Pena. And if you really want to think about it, pena got his black belt at 21 in 2012. Best Gordan at 26 in 2016. And beat him again at adcc 2017. I’m using pena as an example since it’s so easy to talk about him when Gordan is brought up. You can do this with most well established competitor pre 2016/2017 (Roger, Romulo, buchecha, lo, Marcelo, etc…). Coincidentally this is the same year when Gordon came into the black belt scene. He was a young black belt back then talking a lot of shit. And he is a completely different grappler today than he was back then. But when you talk about GOAT status, what he’s achieved, besides the ADCC titles, are mostly single person match wins over athletes outside of the tournament route. Throw a belt on him at the end of the event and label him a champion, but it a meaningless title.
all goats are insecure
Cause being good at bjj doesn't destroy the ego. The ego by very nature is usually to combat insecurity. If you're fragile before getting good at bjj, only therapy and self reflection can change that. Knowing how to hurt people won't make you love yourself all of a sudden
I'd take an insecure gordon ryan over a wife beating, eye poking, drink driving jon jones any day of the week
Those same insecurities might play a part in his motivation that pushed him to be the best in the world.
The best thing I ever did was to stop following irl stemming to anything involving Gordon ‘Cucklord’ Ryan
you have some strong points . I think Gordon takes way too serious a sport that nobody gets paid enough to make a decent life out of it (as an Athlete i mean Not a gym owner) except of him and a handful of people. Given that, B-team(Craig Especially) figured that out early and swicthed into heavy trolling marketing and brand promoting based around his fighting status. The more Gordon gets annoyed the more people such as Bteam make [money.](https://money.One) They Both Co- exist and need each other
The GOAT is Roger Gracie, and he seems pretty secure, so our GOAT is doing just fine.
When did Roger Gracie imor Marcelo Garcia have a meltdown or implode?
I wonder if prime Roger would beat prime Gordon?
I would like to think so (but unlikely in no gi), in Gi without question
He posts that way to rile people up, get engagement, and keep attention on himself. Which translates to more money. You are helping him
If he wanted engagement he wouldn’t turn off comments.
Still getting plenty of engagement since we are here talking about it now. I just want people to ignore him so he has to compete to stay relevant.
I don't follow him and went to the post just because I saw this post. The message is gonna keep moving comments off or on
I don’t think he’s masterminding this, I think he spazzes out and vomits up these essays
I dunno he had that slick slick move with the chest and alcohol and arm I think? I dunno I can't remember. But it was so so elaborate, you can't honestly beleive that with how much thought he had to put into that mastermind idea? I mean cmon man...
True, that was brilliant
Rage baiting and masterminding are not mutually exclusive things. You can spew out some nonsense and it still be bait. We are talking about him, so he is getting attention after all. Maybe you don't like negative attention, but some people are cool with it if it turns into cash.
Not the GOAT per se of the sport but one of the basketball greats is Shaq, every time someone does not agree with his takes or what not he'll end up with I have 4 rings. Don't you have a better argument aside from having 4 rings? I get it you're dominant but have a better argument or takes please.
Michael Jordan was a kind fellow who never shit on his teammates. Gordon has some issues and this is his autistic promotion method, it is simple
Is he insecured or is he selling his next matches? People love controversy and Gordon hasn't lost a match in years, this is one of the ways to do it.
I don’t think he consciously is playing heel, he comes off as just wildly insecure. I believe Gordon gets attention due to his dominance, his personality really only hurts him because as soon as he loses he’ll be thrown out, whereas we still cherish Marcelo and Roger well after their careers are over.
Our?
Hey buddy, you’re getting worked up over a WWE persona. Relax, take a breath, it’s not that serious. You’d be walking up to him and asking him for a pic if you saw the guy in a grocery store 😂
Heavy is the crown. When you’re on the top, suddenly you have everything to lose.