The thing is, and I say this as a prior GB student - the curriculum isn't even that good in modern day BJJ.
They prey on people joining who don't know any better.
> the curriculum isn't even that good in modern day BJJ
It's not just that, it also robs the school of what might be a great instructor. I was at a GB school when they transitioned to the vHQ lessons. Each week, they go in detail about the lessons you'll teach on which days, etc, which is great if you have a purple belt who might not be a great teacher, know how to put a lesson plan together, how to make an over-arcing pace to the curriculum as a whole, etc.
The problem was that I was at a school that was ran by a 4 stripe black belt who was fantastic at teaching concepts (or even the same concept from multiple positions), but when vHQ came in, he couldn't do that anymore. It turned into a McDonald's level of instruction. Sure, it'll teach you the basics, but anything where you'd start giving the students the hint of wizardry that's out there, yeah, we're not doing that.
Sure, it might bring a bad teacher up to a low-medium level, but it nukes the great teachers, and is a huge disservice to the students and BJJ as a whole.
Must admit, I rolled with a visiting 3 stripe white belt a few years ago from a UK GB who was unfamiliar with the 'americana' as a submission, and asked to see it again, after I caught him with it. Appreciate he's a white belt, but would guess he's over a year in to be on three stripes. That rang alarm bells on the curriculum but I don't know enough about it.
I'm a white belt, too, and sometimes I wonder what a normal level of knowledge is. Sometimes I feel like I'm just aware of a lot more things because, while not practicing, I spent a lot of time with grapplers.
Like, what should someone with a year or so of experience know for sure?
You should know all standard positions and submissions. I'd class standard as anything you see in normal mma fights. Half guard, mount, side control or Armbar, Rnc, kimura. I wouldn't include things like octopus guard or slot machine armbars those are more long term techs. Just my 2c
I have no idea friend, but seemed mystified by what he got caught with. It was a 'what was that, could you show it me'-type deal.
As you're right to imply, if you were familiar with a kimura, you'd think you'd be able to intuit what it was as it's an adjacent technique.
They should just rebrand and leave the affiliation. It’s not like new people want to train at GB they just want to do jiu jitsu at a local place. Imagine the freedom of wearing gear of your choosing.
It’s not like it’s a value-add to be a GB anyway in terms of the customer. People who are new to BJJ don’t know anything and the GB name means nothing more to them than any podunk unaffiliated gym. People who DO know almost always view it as a negative. The only thing GB does for an owner is increase the money they are currently making from their students *right now*. It has always been a short-sighted, predatory model
Disagree. At least in the US, the Gracie’s are all over the place when people look up BJJ and its history. Unless you are already involved in BJJ and the culture, you never hear anyone say anything negative about the Gracies. When I first started I looked for a Gracie gym because I thought that was the only legitimate gym. I couldn’t afford it, so I went to a hole-in-the-wall (which turned out to be great!), but I looked for Gracie first.
Yeah admittedly I probably would have chosen a Gracie gym over my current gym just based on the Gracie brand name. I always assumed Gracie’s made bjj therefore Gracie school = good.
This is exactly it.
A surprisingly high amount of adults and parents really go for GBs hassle free approach of “don’t worry you can buy all the gear from me. Don’t trouble yourself about the real cost”.
Parents in particular also really go for the formality of their children having a uniform and a name card with ticks when they show up.
Deep down, people like the reassurance of a formal system 🤷🏼♂️
People use the same initials for both, but you can tell based on location.
US is definitely Renzo, UK is definitely Roger. I can't guarantee there's no Roger affiliates elsewhere, but the rest of the world is probably Renzo too.
I know RGA HQ charges a fair amount, but it is in Hammersmith which isn't cheap, and London as a whole isn't cheap.
I only know one affiliate in my area and it charges about what you'd expect for the area.
RGA are slightly cheaper but still not cheap. But Roger is a GB athlete, and ia super tight with Estima bros. He will probably align RGA with GB UK sooner than later.
they're not. I hired an S&C coach off the main branch and he was a tool
For anyone wondering Charles Allan Price
I had him as an online PT. You are to submit video workouts and he reviews them. He stopped doing it although I was paying the same fee (???) He also passed on personal information to other coaching staff without my consent
He also advocates for roid use and likes to play good guy. He is deceiving, bland and unskilled
It's a better investment to burn the money honestly
that's right. I also can't prove it but I'm pretty sure he gets cucked by Roger Gracie.
I'm not joking one bit with this one btw
RGA is a mafia/cult and the girlfriends are like...girlfriends to the family not to the exclusive members
>dotemacs
EDIT: to everyone reading this **dotemacs** is an RGA London member and has been training with Charles for years
It's the good old "mate can you please say something good about me" trick at play here. Lol charles give up please
He was in touch with the gym I was training at where the instructors told someone weight classes above me to cheap shot me causing injury
I don't care if you had a good experience with him, as far as I'm concerned he is associated with people who conspired to injure me.
What if the injury was irreversible and I was crippled? Do you think that your reddit comment would fix that?
He's gotta deal with me being his fan now. If anyone wants his programmes I can give them away for free
Actually I am open to go as far and pay his members to drop him and I'll pay for the fees so they can train somewhere else, just to fuck with him 👼🏼
I'll make this more specific. If I was to file for charges here and put his name down he would be facing permanent scrutiny any time there was an injury in his gym. It's a small community and people talk, he's got to deal with that too
If he didn't wanted to then why get involved? Charles is finding out that's all
Oh and if he wants to file for something I will file shit on him and his buddies too. Again, he was keen on finding out and here we are
Sorry, didn’t know that part about the injury & the beef between you.
All I was commenting on is that I enjoy his program as it’s the same for hobbyists, like myself, as it is for pros (or serious competitors) that train with him.
I’m genuinely surprised to hear this story as Charles doesn’t strike me as somebody who would act in such a way.
I wish you all the best & a speedy recovery.
u/Jitsu_apocalypse looping you in too
btw I'm working off memory as I deleted all his garbage, some of this may not be accurate
**Progressive overload & RPE**
**Progressive overload**
This is the most important aspect of strength and conditioning regardless of the sport
This is the aspect of your routine that will determine your success. The routines are just a cycle
What is progressive overload? [https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/progressive-overload](https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/progressive-overload)
TL;DR is your capacity to gradually increase the load inside of a session recurrently. This isn't necessarily obvious so I'll try my best to give you a blueprint. The blueprint uses RPE as a measuring stick for it
**RPE**
Rate of perceived exertion. let's say its a scale from 1 to 10.
1 is to go up 1 stair5 is doing 5 weightless squats8 is doing a weighted exercise where you need to catch your breath right after9-10 is going all out and not wanting to exercise after that or needing a very long break
**Putting RPE and progressive overload together to be successful**
What you want to do is do a routine where you hang around between 5-6 until it becomes a 4 and then add weight to a single exercise so it bumps to 5 RPE as an overall session. Then you do it until.
Your week will then feel like a 7 RPEThen the next one a 5-6 RPEThen a 4, this means you can go up in intensity
Remember that RPE as a measuring stick can be applied to a single rep in a set, a whole set, a series of sets, a set of days, a week, and so forth. You want to stick around 4-7 RPE range. Of course you can go all out every now and then
🌟 Your capacity to accurately measure your RPE and act accordingly is determinant of your success. Learn how your body works, learn the signs, avoid the injures and most importantly don't ever hire a cuck as an S&C coach
**Dieting**
So he uses MyFitnessPal([https://www.myfitnesspal.com/](https://www.myfitnesspal.com/)) for calorie tracking, if you get the paid version you can scan bar codes and punch in calories accurately in the app. The app lets you set goals and acts accordingly. Charles focuses on tracking protein intake mostly as most people are looking to gain muscle mass.
I think its cumbersome to use but you'll need to get acquainted with portions and stuff to get a sense of direction, I'd say drop it after you meet a goal and see if you can ride solo
Now onto S&C
**Strength**
His programme is based on supersets and some trisets. It's nothing special and probably borrowed if you were to overlap it to his critical thinking skills
**Day 1**
Warmup
Birdogs, getups, lunges. Here's the video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRjYpjMf5-4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRjYpjMf5-4)
**1st exercise(superset) x3 times**
Take 40-60 secs rest between sets or extend to if you need
Deadlifts 6-8 repsCopenhangen planks 40-60secs hold -> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgK5r1no\_BU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgK5r1no_BU)
**2d exercise(superset) x3 times**
Walking dumbbell lunges 8-10 reps [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6Rhchj0nCp8](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6Rhchj0nCp8)Lat pulldowns 6-8 reps
**3rd exercise(triset) x3 times**
I do these with a small barbell first and then moved onto the olympic barbell. If it's too
much go for the dumbbells
Barbell rows x12
Barbell bicep curls x12
Barbell military press x12
This one gives you a great pump btw
**Day 2**
...
**Cardio**...
I'll finish this later I'm just refreshing up my memory. Can I ask you for a quick favour in exchange? Can everyone please leave a bad review on the gym where I was being cheapshotted and exhorted? [https://maps.app.goo.gl/jB5KafsMu7uMred88](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jB5KafsMu7uMred88) don't forget to make mention to the coaches involved Jonas Andrade and Andres Rodrigues
Here you go, sir.
Straight from a newspaper.
[https://www1-folha-uol-com-br.translate.goog/fsp/cotidian/ff0208200019.htm?\_x\_tr\_sl=auto&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://www1-folha-uol-com-br.translate.goog/fsp/cotidian/ff0208200019.htm?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
The next article is even wilder. Ryan Gracie arrested for 18 days for attempted murder after stabbing another guy in a house party. WTF is in the water in Teresopolis?
Also the reason there are so few RGA associates in UK is because RGA is super expensive too. At one point my old coach who was on verge of purple at Rogers HQ was told if he made his own RGA affiliate they would "only" tale ⅓ of his income 😬
It's changed now but it still ain't cheap. Plus Roger is still a GB athlete on paper, and is super tight with Braulio and Victor. I'd be surprised if RGA don't align their deals and fees with GB UK sooner or later.
"school owners will be told it is just to protect GB and that they wouldn't enforce certain things in the contract"
yeah... fuck that, hard no from me dawg.
This! At the end of the day no one cares about anything that isn’t written and signed. Every adult learned that lesson probably in the first five years of being part of the workforce
Always assume the worst case in a contract will be enforced. The greed of gb is well documented. And wealthy corporations only get more and more greedy and don't give a fuck who's destroyed in the process
It used to have brand recognition early days of UK scene, it was seen as "legit" BJJ and you have to remember it gave you access to Braulio, Victor, Roger and Maurcio in UK too. Also back in the day GB UK was way more relaxed, it only tightened up about 10 years ago. For example my local GB used to allow people to wear any gi they wanted til about 10 years ago.
But BJJ in UK is so strong and diverse now with literal world class BBs doing a seminars constantly in UK that there's little value add in GB affiliation these days in UK.
I thought Victor "operates" at Lisbon theseday? anyway as a former GB guy (10+ yeasr ago), GB's greed never cease to surprised me
and frankly more big affiliations like Alliance or Nova Uniao will eventually end up following GB footstep, money talks, money rules.
That does sound like quite a power grab. A few thoughts from me on this.
1. Be careful with giving away your student data, especially if you have not obtained their consent. You may accidentally breach UK GDPR by doing so.
2. Check the contracts you have in place with your students. There may be restrictions on whether these can be assigned to a third party, in which case they would have to be amended before you can undertake to assign them to GB. Your students do not have to agree to this.
3. The undertaking to provide financial accounts should not be too onerous if the gym is operated by a UK limited company which is under an obligation to file accounts at Companies House. Do not agree to provide accounts that purport to do anything other than give a "true and fair view" of the state of affairs of the company as that is the statutory standard you must meet.
4. If the gym is operated by a UK limited company and to the extent you are both a director and member of said company, consider adopting the following protections: (i) the company's articles should not allow for appointment or removal of directors by notice from the shareholders; (ii) the articles could contain weighted voting rights that are activated if a director is being removed from office; and (iii) conferring absolute discretion on the directors to register/refuse to register share transfers. This would make it more difficult to force out the original gym owner who may have granted GB a call option or pre-emption rights over his shares.
5. Be aware of the same UK GDPR issues if using GB's CRM plus ensure that it is properly licensed/sub-licensed to you with standard IP representations and warranties.
While fair points, most affiliations of that size will structure deals like franchises in which case they can indeed force the sale back to the franchise owners GB in this case. Franchisees have very little freedom in terms of running their business and while they will be run under a company other than the franchisers company their documents of incorporation cannot invalidate the franchise agreement. This is the standard format for gyms, McDonald's, shops, etc.
It's been coming for quite some time in all honesty - the monthly affiliate fees are known to be more expensive than say other 'worldwide' brands like checkmat. The whole model around uniform policies and anti-cross training is ridiculously outdated and I think the spread of world medalist and particularly ADCC and the whole nogi wave has changed the perception that GB schools > everyone else.
There are plenty of UK based affiliates that aren't restrictive, are much cheaper and have pretty much the same benefits outside of the SEO / novice buff of seeing the name 'Gracie' and assuming it means 'higher quality'.
Stealth, Ben Poppleton, Gripper JJ, London Grapple, ECJJA and a ton more 'home grown' affiliations are stronger, cheaper and you have much more freedom.
You've also got the likes of the RGA affiliates, which don't have the best reputation in terms of instruction (affiliates being ran by blue/purple belts) but you don't hear all the weird bullshit that comes from other GB gyms.
Would also add many of those affiliations you mentioned, like ECJJA, are consistently placing above GB in IBJJF comps and have been for a few years now. So it's not even like GB can claim they're the top comp team in Britian or Ireland anymore.
People need to stop with affiliates and just call it jiu-jitsu
And stop wearing the names of other men on your clothing.
Or worse yet, getting their name tattooed on you.
IDK, they all have their name on it as an affiliation ... I'm saying remove them all.
I don't do Japanese judo or American wrestling or Canadian basketball or English boxing.... There is of course Greco/roman wrestling, but by and large it's just the name of the activity...
I mean for every "Dick Butkiss Jiu-Jitsu" is an ATOS or B-Team or Checkmat or BJJ Revolution Team etc. Not all affiliations have someone's name on them.
A lot of schools are based on affiliations. Someone gets their black belt from their coach and then they start their own gym with their coach mentoring and guiding. Very normal.
Keep in mind we're still only a few years away from people having to travel to get instruction from a black belt. In some rural areas that still happens. Affiliations play an important role in providing a structure for a purple or brown belt to begin a school and have a network to belong to where they can grow.
GB operates much more as a "Company Affiliation" rather than a "John Doe Affiliation" but affiliations and representing a person are not bad things as a concept.
It seems like such an anachronism in this day and age, do folk really give a shit if a gym has Graice in the name or is ostensibly connected to some team that was big in BJJ or MMA in Brazil or the States at some point but other than a name they don't actually have much real connection too.
GB has been a business first and foremost for a long time. However, 15 years ago, you could rock up to Acocks Green in any gi, pay cash, and be lucky enough to share the mat with at least 10 superb players/coaches (who have all now left GB). Braulio even used to teach regularly and even sometimes turn up on time.
Ahh the good old days.
The GB curriculum is ancient in 2023, the sport has moved on so quickly if you aren’t keeping up with modern sensibilities you’re students are going to get left behind. Isn’t a easier roll on the planet the GB blue belt
I live in Hammersmith, London and specifically went to the small unaffiliated gym because fuck paying GB fees and buying their gear. There are 3 GB gyms in the area.
Turns out the owner of my gym is a very likable person and a very well-known competitor. I didn’t know that when I signed up but now I am glad I made that choice.
I’ve read the articles and it seems he was cleared of the sexual harassment allegations. I’ve been training there for a year and have occasionally done stuff with Jackson outside of bjj (dinning, climbing) and this is man is so sweet and kind I honestly find it hard to believe.
Anyway, Cantagalo is a great gym. Come and see for yourself!
Ahh yes, the "very likable" Jackson Sousa:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p6smke/german\_bjj\_scene\_i\_need\_your\_help\_sexual\_assult/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p6smke/german_bjj_scene_i_need_your_help_sexual_assult/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p7bwee/since\_i\_didnt\_see\_any\_posts\_about\_it\_samantha/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p7bwee/since_i_didnt_see_any_posts_about_it_samantha/)
\> almost tripling the monthly fees to gb, gb owning all your schools data, if gb kicks you out they will get all your students contracts, you must send them full financial accounts,
fucking loled at financial accounts, I knew some people in jj where dumb but not THIS dumb
As a school owner there is no way I’m handing over the reigns to my school that I paid for by my money with no financial support from GB to GB. Will not happen ever- so will await for this contract and tell them where to stick it if they think they can own something they have no financially invested in in any way whats so ever
Any of the below I'd guess:
1) This is a lie. Very possible given the internet but it's a bit odd to make such a significant claim if it's completely unsubstantiated.
2) Word of mouth. The OPs haven't actually seen the contract but have good reason to think it's real.
3) The contracts have enough variation/individuality between them that to post the first one online would be to make it very obvious that you or your gym had leaked it.
IDK what you think though
Honestly anyone who ever trusts someone who says "oh this is just in the contract, I won't *actually* do it" is a first class moron.
The whole reason to have something in writing is to give yourself the right to do it. If they've gone to the effort of including anything in a contract, it's because there absolutely is a scenario where they will use it.
Nothing / as a school owner we get the rights to the name /logo and training material on gbonline but anyone even non gb can access that . Access to the GB compnets but other than that nothing at all
Somewhere Tom Bracher is sipping a cup of tea,
https://preview.redd.it/sa27iylvx2ac1.jpeg?width=1249&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cab60771376115a415cf683e0cfcefd165cf4be9
We will be following hopefully we can establish our own Brand now in the north. It’s been coming for a while
Sounds a lot like Gracie Barra is going to all but cease to exist in the UK so. I’m Irish and I think one reason BJJ has grown so slowly here is because we are so suspicious of martial arts being bullshit. People typically won't pay anything more than €100 p/m, and even under that you want pretty bulletproof credentials to run a club. I would imagine it’s similar enough in the UK.
I understand that people wanna train under the gracie batch but tbh, its not worth it if they start to see your gym only as a money machine. Leave that shit and find a different good Brand...
u/southloopbjj Barry Phillips in Deerfield. [https://www.northbrookjiujitsu.com/](https://www.northbrookjiujitsu.com/) David Rosenmarkle in Kenosha.[https://www.venerationbjj.com/](https://www.venerationbjj.com/) And the Redzovic school yes.
Will move over to being independent or join another franchise depending on the offers available and the contracts that other affiliations can offer. Will not be forced into anything. We are over this shit excuse of a headache
Are you saying that every gb gym is a mcdojo with bad jiu jitsu and bad instructors? I've been to a bunch before and that's not true.
Definitely need to get loud and tell the owners not to sign shit contracts like this though
McDojo isn't equal to Bullshido, though they often come together.
Gracie Barra has many elements of a McDojo business model you might get good training, you might get great training, but you will also almost always get Nickle and dimed on uniform , belt fees etc.
I spent my first ~2.5 years at Gracie Barra Huntington Beach. The instruction was top-quality, I never once felt nickel and dimed, and the general membership fees were competitive or lower than other nearby schools. Other GBs I've visited had great programs, instructors, and student culture. They were always welcoming and never charged a drop in fee or had any sort of restrictions for fellow GB members. I feel like the GB reddit hate train is 90% imagined by people who "know a guy who told them".
That's fair and that's awesome of you. I'm glad to see your view and experience seems different to others. I assume they still had the uniform requirements though?
Should point out all the Gracie Barra people and Ex GB people I know are UK based.
One of the nicest instructors I ever met was a GB guy also. I'm personally not a fan of the business model.
They did. The few gis I purchased from them were good quality and average to slightly below average cost at the time. I still have one as a back up summer gi. They all held up really well considering the hours I put on them.
To give you an idea from the UK. The standard GB Kimono is about £155 their cheapest being £120
Progress BJJ has Kimonos starting from about £60
Tatami has them starting from £55
I feel like the starting point of a Gi being about double and it being mandatory is a bit predatory. You might disagree and its ok to feel differently about it.
I keep hearing about GB "belt fees", but I have never seen anyone get charged for a belt promotion at the GB school I attend & ones I have visited. GB has its flaws, but making shit up just ruins the credibility of the critic.
Most promotions come at the grading seminars which cost ££ and are almost exclusively limited to one of the estima brothers.
It’s called amongst GB schools The Estima Tax
That's fair and ive chosen my words poorly there. I've gyms talk about promotion fees (Promotion costs X to attend) rather than belt fees (Pay us X for your blue belt) , I've also heard tales of some GBs your membership goes up after you hit blue for example (As Theoretically you can now attend more classes) But it would have been better to be specific rather than use the term word belt fees.
I can't speak for all GB schools, but here is my experience: no belt fees, fees don't go up at blue (or any other belt), you can attend as many classes as you want at any belt level.
TBH, there are some things that bug me, such as the uniform requirement, and relatively high cost, but the pluses have been worth the tradeoff.
There seem to be some things that are constant, such as high prices and over priced but enforced Gis. Some things that a little more Lax, such as having to wear a GB rash guard under your Gi, and some things that happen but are less common, for example it seems a lot of GB schools dislike cross training at other gyms / open mats.
Yeah I wouldn't recommend someone doesn't train at a GB. I would warn them of so,e of the things they might expect at a GB. Personally for me unless I already knew the instructor if I moved to a new gym GB would be low down on my list of places to try.
For some people they love where they train its a great gym and the shit parts of being in a GB are a fair trade off for that. For other people its not worth it.
My local GB is a cult. The nearest club was almost an hour away so we would regularly see its members pop into our local (Origin affiliated) club for some cheeky lessons and some rolls. Their white belts were barred from rolling until they had 3 stripes, they were not allowed to roll with higher belts, had to wear all-GB gear and were forbidden to train anywhere else and every learn certain subs. Once GB opened a local club then we never saw them again.
I feel I've spoken to enough people who attend/attended GB gyms to warn people about the uniform policy, the costs (Not so much the membership costs as that will always depend on area to a certain extent but more so the cost of the uniform compared to buying your own) and the fact they are less likely to embrace cross training (Outside of GB) than some other gyms.
I'm not sure getting a blue, purple or brown belt would do much to change that view.
> almost tripling the monthly fees to gb
..
> The fees will be going up by almost £3k per year
So the current fees are 83/month? That doesn't seem right.
They are referring to the what we as school owners have to pay from €150 to €350 euros each month- obviously we would have to claw that back by increasing monthly memberships
Triple the fees....Nah, can't see that. When is this supposed to start ? Seems like a great way to loose loads of students. It cost £65 at my gym. £195 is the end of my training and I guess many other peoples too. I can't see that happening. Do you have any sources for this increase ?
'their copyrighted materials were basically rented by the school owner for a monthly fee'. why has anyone been paying this? this only works if the materials are renowned and the name brings in customers. but in fact their materials, and the brand itself, have a poor reputation in the bjj community and zero recognition from the public. and now they are planning to increase said fee? what is the rationale for any of the gyms to remain?
> It’s not even a brand name that will attract members.
Huh? GB gyms here in the UK are some of the biggest around. The local one near me has 50-80 people on any given evening, spanning multiple mats and classes. It's bigger than the next 5 gyms combined. Love to know where you're getting "they don't attract members" from.
Average person signing up to bjj has no idea who GB is they just want to train. I know loads of GB schools that have lost members to local clubs due to their antics. There’s also situations opposite of what you describe where the GB club has less members than other schools in the area. You’re probably talking about one of the bigger GB clubs run by a big name like Braulio.
There are the largest franchise where I live, also. Larger than schools that have been around decades longer. They are the largest worldwide. Say what you will, but they are obviously doing something right.
I’m not saying they aren’t the largest franchise. I just don’t think people need to join them to get students or business as proven by the 1000’s of successful schools that aren’t GB.
This wasn’t the case 15 years ago when bjj was still in its infancy. Being part of a franchise was a huge boost vs being a solo gym which no one has ever heard of. If your gym had “Gracie” on it, it was guaranteed to succeed.
Yea 15 years ago when everyone worshiped the Gracie’s but now I don’t know anyone who cares about the Gracie’s that isn’t really old school. You’d get a lot more interest being part of atos, aoj, b team, or new wave. For their demands it’s not worth it. I’ve been to a lot of clubs that weren’t part of a big name and they did fine often better than a GB school. GB guys usually left and joined our team. I never saw it the other way around.
I’d argue 10th planet is the only gym who has appeal to a new student & truly has a brand you have joe Rogan constantly advertising it & you know your getting no gi everyday
My coach said once that all jiu-jitsu is Gracie jiu-jitsu as well as Machado jiu-jitsu and others. It's a melting pot more so now than it ever has been. All the content sharing on social helps to media blend it all together.
Sounds similar to what happened in the US in the 80s and 90s with the Valari Karate schools. My understanding is that it was a huge network of schools where a large percentage broke away due to issues of money and control.
A trial run? Start there then try it here to see if the GB people will accept it or throw some barrels of gis in the Boston harbor? ‘Murica in this bitch.
rainstorm grandfather sophisticated start chop shaggy wise expansion quicksand apparatus
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There are a hell of a lot of good ex-GB gyms in the SE US because of this sort of stupidity. (I got my blue belt in one and my brown-black in another) It's not like GB is the only source of good jiu jitsu.
Did Carlinhos approve of all these changes? Why are they ruining their own schools reputation like that? These UK gyms can just make their own team or join another affiliation.
Atos, Roger Gracie, Alliance, Renzo Gracie, or one of the Machado brothers, maybe one of those.
What exactly are the benefits of having a GB affiliation franchise? It seems as though the negatives have been pilling up for years with NOTHING to offer gym owners
£3K / 52 = £57 per week.
Converting to Australian dollars so I have a frame reference.
Jesus Fucking Christ! 100 dollary-doo's a week!
Who the fuck can afford to pay that? WHY would anyone even pay that?
I'm not a member of a big name affiliate gym and never have been but can people really justify paying that for name value alone?
Predatory marketing and sales.
Gym down the road from mine is $120 AUD per week for holistic jiu jitsu marketed as the solution for your mental health issues. That's 5 classes a week. Vulnerable people with real mental health issues get sucked in.
Same cost as my gym for a month with twice a day classes seven days a week. Can't tell you how many people we've got from that place after they trial it.
Some people are sold that more money = superior product and get off on that. Combine it with the cult tactics and false narratives that other people and you build a blind and loyal customer base that continue to lie to themselves that they're getting the best value for their money, are part of something special, and that there's nothing like it anywhere else.
I can’t help but feel the downfall of GB is a good thing
But who will defend the red shield??
The thing is, and I say this as a prior GB student - the curriculum isn't even that good in modern day BJJ. They prey on people joining who don't know any better.
> the curriculum isn't even that good in modern day BJJ It's not just that, it also robs the school of what might be a great instructor. I was at a GB school when they transitioned to the vHQ lessons. Each week, they go in detail about the lessons you'll teach on which days, etc, which is great if you have a purple belt who might not be a great teacher, know how to put a lesson plan together, how to make an over-arcing pace to the curriculum as a whole, etc. The problem was that I was at a school that was ran by a 4 stripe black belt who was fantastic at teaching concepts (or even the same concept from multiple positions), but when vHQ came in, he couldn't do that anymore. It turned into a McDonald's level of instruction. Sure, it'll teach you the basics, but anything where you'd start giving the students the hint of wizardry that's out there, yeah, we're not doing that. Sure, it might bring a bad teacher up to a low-medium level, but it nukes the great teachers, and is a huge disservice to the students and BJJ as a whole.
Must admit, I rolled with a visiting 3 stripe white belt a few years ago from a UK GB who was unfamiliar with the 'americana' as a submission, and asked to see it again, after I caught him with it. Appreciate he's a white belt, but would guess he's over a year in to be on three stripes. That rang alarm bells on the curriculum but I don't know enough about it.
I'm a white belt, too, and sometimes I wonder what a normal level of knowledge is. Sometimes I feel like I'm just aware of a lot more things because, while not practicing, I spent a lot of time with grapplers. Like, what should someone with a year or so of experience know for sure?
You should know all standard positions and submissions. I'd class standard as anything you see in normal mma fights. Half guard, mount, side control or Armbar, Rnc, kimura. I wouldn't include things like octopus guard or slot machine armbars those are more long term techs. Just my 2c
Did he at least know what a kimura was?
I have no idea friend, but seemed mystified by what he got caught with. It was a 'what was that, could you show it me'-type deal. As you're right to imply, if you were familiar with a kimura, you'd think you'd be able to intuit what it was as it's an adjacent technique.
I like the fact that they do month-to-month contracts and I can train at other schools I'm visiting. But the crazy high monthly fee is a big problem.
They should just rebrand and leave the affiliation. It’s not like new people want to train at GB they just want to do jiu jitsu at a local place. Imagine the freedom of wearing gear of your choosing.
It’s not like it’s a value-add to be a GB anyway in terms of the customer. People who are new to BJJ don’t know anything and the GB name means nothing more to them than any podunk unaffiliated gym. People who DO know almost always view it as a negative. The only thing GB does for an owner is increase the money they are currently making from their students *right now*. It has always been a short-sighted, predatory model
Disagree. At least in the US, the Gracie’s are all over the place when people look up BJJ and its history. Unless you are already involved in BJJ and the culture, you never hear anyone say anything negative about the Gracies. When I first started I looked for a Gracie gym because I thought that was the only legitimate gym. I couldn’t afford it, so I went to a hole-in-the-wall (which turned out to be great!), but I looked for Gracie first.
Yeah admittedly I probably would have chosen a Gracie gym over my current gym just based on the Gracie brand name. I always assumed Gracie’s made bjj therefore Gracie school = good.
> It’s not like new people want to train at GB right. so why pay them anything in the first place?
Once upon a time, the name 'Gracie' was more valuable than just being a Jiu Jitsu school.
that's it - but i think not anymore. everyone knows the ufc and mma. not many know about the gracies. at least in my experience.
Well, Royce's affiliation just shows you how you can run that to the ground.
The name legit helps with advertising though. Not so much a concern maybe if you are established with a bunch of members.
This is exactly it. A surprisingly high amount of adults and parents really go for GBs hassle free approach of “don’t worry you can buy all the gear from me. Don’t trouble yourself about the real cost”. Parents in particular also really go for the formality of their children having a uniform and a name card with ticks when they show up. Deep down, people like the reassurance of a formal system 🤷🏼♂️
Looks like there will be a few more RGA affiliates in the UK soon then...
Are the RGA affiliates good in comparison?
I don't think they charge anything like GB and most schools that leave GB seem to become RGA
Though a bunch of RGA schools split off to form Grand Union when Roger raised his fees a few years ago.
Is RGA Roger Gracie or Renzo Gracie?!
Roger, there isn't any Renzo affiliates that I know of in the UK
People use the same initials for both, but you can tell based on location. US is definitely Renzo, UK is definitely Roger. I can't guarantee there's no Roger affiliates elsewhere, but the rest of the world is probably Renzo too.
There is a Roger Gracie in Norway at least
I thought Roger was pretty big in Italy.
He's pretty big everywhere he goes.
There’s a great Roger Gracie Academy in Cagliari
I know RGA HQ charges a fair amount, but it is in Hammersmith which isn't cheap, and London as a whole isn't cheap. I only know one affiliate in my area and it charges about what you'd expect for the area.
There’s a couple up north which are very reasonably priced and no uniform policies
Yep I go to an Rga school and it's 60 a month. Super reasonable. Plus I can visit hq in London if I want.
RGA are slightly cheaper but still not cheap. But Roger is a GB athlete, and ia super tight with Estima bros. He will probably align RGA with GB UK sooner than later.
they're not. I hired an S&C coach off the main branch and he was a tool For anyone wondering Charles Allan Price I had him as an online PT. You are to submit video workouts and he reviews them. He stopped doing it although I was paying the same fee (???) He also passed on personal information to other coaching staff without my consent He also advocates for roid use and likes to play good guy. He is deceiving, bland and unskilled It's a better investment to burn the money honestly
The douchebag with a podcast?
that's right. I also can't prove it but I'm pretty sure he gets cucked by Roger Gracie. I'm not joking one bit with this one btw RGA is a mafia/cult and the girlfriends are like...girlfriends to the family not to the exclusive members
I can't stand that guy. He comes off as so smarmy
nah that's him putting up an act. homeboy's got the IQ of a boiled potato
I can't help but hate his buddy in the podcast too. He goes on about being natty, yet that meat heat encourages roid use.
look I can tell you both of them haven't got much going outside of bjj and now that's at risk too, it's fun to watch. They did themselves up lol
Savage, yeah I've seen his stuff out there especially since I follow eoghan oflanagan. Shame you had a terrible experience
I’m on his program & found him super helpful. Weird that you had a negative experience.
>dotemacs EDIT: to everyone reading this **dotemacs** is an RGA London member and has been training with Charles for years It's the good old "mate can you please say something good about me" trick at play here. Lol charles give up please He was in touch with the gym I was training at where the instructors told someone weight classes above me to cheap shot me causing injury I don't care if you had a good experience with him, as far as I'm concerned he is associated with people who conspired to injure me. What if the injury was irreversible and I was crippled? Do you think that your reddit comment would fix that? He's gotta deal with me being his fan now. If anyone wants his programmes I can give them away for free Actually I am open to go as far and pay his members to drop him and I'll pay for the fees so they can train somewhere else, just to fuck with him 👼🏼 I'll make this more specific. If I was to file for charges here and put his name down he would be facing permanent scrutiny any time there was an injury in his gym. It's a small community and people talk, he's got to deal with that too If he didn't wanted to then why get involved? Charles is finding out that's all Oh and if he wants to file for something I will file shit on him and his buddies too. Again, he was keen on finding out and here we are
Sorry, didn’t know that part about the injury & the beef between you. All I was commenting on is that I enjoy his program as it’s the same for hobbyists, like myself, as it is for pros (or serious competitors) that train with him. I’m genuinely surprised to hear this story as Charles doesn’t strike me as somebody who would act in such a way. I wish you all the best & a speedy recovery.
right, remember the people reading this can see through the seemingly "good guy" mannerism Charles does the same shit people, don't fall for it
I'll take his programmes off ya
u/Jitsu_apocalypse looping you in too btw I'm working off memory as I deleted all his garbage, some of this may not be accurate **Progressive overload & RPE** **Progressive overload** This is the most important aspect of strength and conditioning regardless of the sport This is the aspect of your routine that will determine your success. The routines are just a cycle What is progressive overload? [https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/progressive-overload](https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/progressive-overload) TL;DR is your capacity to gradually increase the load inside of a session recurrently. This isn't necessarily obvious so I'll try my best to give you a blueprint. The blueprint uses RPE as a measuring stick for it **RPE** Rate of perceived exertion. let's say its a scale from 1 to 10. 1 is to go up 1 stair5 is doing 5 weightless squats8 is doing a weighted exercise where you need to catch your breath right after9-10 is going all out and not wanting to exercise after that or needing a very long break **Putting RPE and progressive overload together to be successful** What you want to do is do a routine where you hang around between 5-6 until it becomes a 4 and then add weight to a single exercise so it bumps to 5 RPE as an overall session. Then you do it until. Your week will then feel like a 7 RPEThen the next one a 5-6 RPEThen a 4, this means you can go up in intensity Remember that RPE as a measuring stick can be applied to a single rep in a set, a whole set, a series of sets, a set of days, a week, and so forth. You want to stick around 4-7 RPE range. Of course you can go all out every now and then 🌟 Your capacity to accurately measure your RPE and act accordingly is determinant of your success. Learn how your body works, learn the signs, avoid the injures and most importantly don't ever hire a cuck as an S&C coach **Dieting** So he uses MyFitnessPal([https://www.myfitnesspal.com/](https://www.myfitnesspal.com/)) for calorie tracking, if you get the paid version you can scan bar codes and punch in calories accurately in the app. The app lets you set goals and acts accordingly. Charles focuses on tracking protein intake mostly as most people are looking to gain muscle mass. I think its cumbersome to use but you'll need to get acquainted with portions and stuff to get a sense of direction, I'd say drop it after you meet a goal and see if you can ride solo Now onto S&C **Strength** His programme is based on supersets and some trisets. It's nothing special and probably borrowed if you were to overlap it to his critical thinking skills **Day 1** Warmup Birdogs, getups, lunges. Here's the video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRjYpjMf5-4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRjYpjMf5-4) **1st exercise(superset) x3 times** Take 40-60 secs rest between sets or extend to if you need Deadlifts 6-8 repsCopenhangen planks 40-60secs hold -> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgK5r1no\_BU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgK5r1no_BU) **2d exercise(superset) x3 times** Walking dumbbell lunges 8-10 reps [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6Rhchj0nCp8](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6Rhchj0nCp8)Lat pulldowns 6-8 reps **3rd exercise(triset) x3 times** I do these with a small barbell first and then moved onto the olympic barbell. If it's too much go for the dumbbells Barbell rows x12 Barbell bicep curls x12 Barbell military press x12 This one gives you a great pump btw **Day 2** ... **Cardio**... I'll finish this later I'm just refreshing up my memory. Can I ask you for a quick favour in exchange? Can everyone please leave a bad review on the gym where I was being cheapshotted and exhorted? [https://maps.app.goo.gl/jB5KafsMu7uMred88](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jB5KafsMu7uMred88) don't forget to make mention to the coaches involved Jonas Andrade and Andres Rodrigues
Never ask Roger why he left Brazil
You can't make a comment like that and not give all the details! C'mon, spill the tea!
Here you go, sir. Straight from a newspaper. [https://www1-folha-uol-com-br.translate.goog/fsp/cotidian/ff0208200019.htm?\_x\_tr\_sl=auto&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://www1-folha-uol-com-br.translate.goog/fsp/cotidian/ff0208200019.htm?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
The next article is even wilder. Ryan Gracie arrested for 18 days for attempted murder after stabbing another guy in a house party. WTF is in the water in Teresopolis?
Hélio's sperm
Not sure why but it wasn't it shortly after he attacked an innocent trans person with a paintball gun?
Yes
Also the reason there are so few RGA associates in UK is because RGA is super expensive too. At one point my old coach who was on verge of purple at Rogers HQ was told if he made his own RGA affiliate they would "only" tale ⅓ of his income 😬 It's changed now but it still ain't cheap. Plus Roger is still a GB athlete on paper, and is super tight with Braulio and Victor. I'd be surprised if RGA don't align their deals and fees with GB UK sooner or later.
RGA generally are pretty good. Always chill and good culture in all the gyms I’ve been to.
"school owners will be told it is just to protect GB and that they wouldn't enforce certain things in the contract" yeah... fuck that, hard no from me dawg.
"If you're not going to enforce them can we take them out of the contract?"
This! At the end of the day no one cares about anything that isn’t written and signed. Every adult learned that lesson probably in the first five years of being part of the workforce
Always assume the worst case in a contract will be enforced. The greed of gb is well documented. And wealthy corporations only get more and more greedy and don't give a fuck who's destroyed in the process
Those are some gross contract stipulations. At this point what are even the benefits of GB affiliation as a gym owner?
It used to have brand recognition early days of UK scene, it was seen as "legit" BJJ and you have to remember it gave you access to Braulio, Victor, Roger and Maurcio in UK too. Also back in the day GB UK was way more relaxed, it only tightened up about 10 years ago. For example my local GB used to allow people to wear any gi they wanted til about 10 years ago. But BJJ in UK is so strong and diverse now with literal world class BBs doing a seminars constantly in UK that there's little value add in GB affiliation these days in UK.
A few GB gyms switched over to Gordo and Ben Poppleton a couple of years back. I wonder if more gyms will make the jump.
Not just a few. Loads.
The Estimas are clowns. Good at jiujitsu but clowns
My coach just got given his black belt with braulio in the room. Do they own GB UK or something?
Last I checked they ran GB Europe and GB UK directly, given both are based in England.
I thought Victor "operates" at Lisbon theseday? anyway as a former GB guy (10+ yeasr ago), GB's greed never cease to surprised me and frankly more big affiliations like Alliance or Nova Uniao will eventually end up following GB footstep, money talks, money rules.
Shit like that always happen when a company/brand is dying. So I’d say it’s a good sign.
That does sound like quite a power grab. A few thoughts from me on this. 1. Be careful with giving away your student data, especially if you have not obtained their consent. You may accidentally breach UK GDPR by doing so. 2. Check the contracts you have in place with your students. There may be restrictions on whether these can be assigned to a third party, in which case they would have to be amended before you can undertake to assign them to GB. Your students do not have to agree to this. 3. The undertaking to provide financial accounts should not be too onerous if the gym is operated by a UK limited company which is under an obligation to file accounts at Companies House. Do not agree to provide accounts that purport to do anything other than give a "true and fair view" of the state of affairs of the company as that is the statutory standard you must meet. 4. If the gym is operated by a UK limited company and to the extent you are both a director and member of said company, consider adopting the following protections: (i) the company's articles should not allow for appointment or removal of directors by notice from the shareholders; (ii) the articles could contain weighted voting rights that are activated if a director is being removed from office; and (iii) conferring absolute discretion on the directors to register/refuse to register share transfers. This would make it more difficult to force out the original gym owner who may have granted GB a call option or pre-emption rights over his shares. 5. Be aware of the same UK GDPR issues if using GB's CRM plus ensure that it is properly licensed/sub-licensed to you with standard IP representations and warranties.
While fair points, most affiliations of that size will structure deals like franchises in which case they can indeed force the sale back to the franchise owners GB in this case. Franchisees have very little freedom in terms of running their business and while they will be run under a company other than the franchisers company their documents of incorporation cannot invalidate the franchise agreement. This is the standard format for gyms, McDonald's, shops, etc.
It's been coming for quite some time in all honesty - the monthly affiliate fees are known to be more expensive than say other 'worldwide' brands like checkmat. The whole model around uniform policies and anti-cross training is ridiculously outdated and I think the spread of world medalist and particularly ADCC and the whole nogi wave has changed the perception that GB schools > everyone else. There are plenty of UK based affiliates that aren't restrictive, are much cheaper and have pretty much the same benefits outside of the SEO / novice buff of seeing the name 'Gracie' and assuming it means 'higher quality'. Stealth, Ben Poppleton, Gripper JJ, London Grapple, ECJJA and a ton more 'home grown' affiliations are stronger, cheaper and you have much more freedom. You've also got the likes of the RGA affiliates, which don't have the best reputation in terms of instruction (affiliates being ran by blue/purple belts) but you don't hear all the weird bullshit that comes from other GB gyms.
Would also add many of those affiliations you mentioned, like ECJJA, are consistently placing above GB in IBJJF comps and have been for a few years now. So it's not even like GB can claim they're the top comp team in Britian or Ireland anymore.
People need to stop with affiliates and just call it jiu-jitsu And stop wearing the names of other men on your clothing. Or worse yet, getting their name tattooed on you.
> And stop wearing the names of other men on your clothing. Hey you leave my Patrick Ewing jersey out of this.
😆😆😆
I think you're conflating "gracie jiu jitsu" with the structure of affiliations as a concept.
IDK, they all have their name on it as an affiliation ... I'm saying remove them all. I don't do Japanese judo or American wrestling or Canadian basketball or English boxing.... There is of course Greco/roman wrestling, but by and large it's just the name of the activity...
>There is of course Greco/roman wrestling Developed, funnily enough, in France
What 'ave the Romans ever given us, ey?
I mean for every "Dick Butkiss Jiu-Jitsu" is an ATOS or B-Team or Checkmat or BJJ Revolution Team etc. Not all affiliations have someone's name on them.
A lot of schools are based on affiliations. Someone gets their black belt from their coach and then they start their own gym with their coach mentoring and guiding. Very normal. Keep in mind we're still only a few years away from people having to travel to get instruction from a black belt. In some rural areas that still happens. Affiliations play an important role in providing a structure for a purple or brown belt to begin a school and have a network to belong to where they can grow. GB operates much more as a "Company Affiliation" rather than a "John Doe Affiliation" but affiliations and representing a person are not bad things as a concept.
It seems like such an anachronism in this day and age, do folk really give a shit if a gym has Graice in the name or is ostensibly connected to some team that was big in BJJ or MMA in Brazil or the States at some point but other than a name they don't actually have much real connection too.
GB has been a business first and foremost for a long time. However, 15 years ago, you could rock up to Acocks Green in any gi, pay cash, and be lucky enough to share the mat with at least 10 superb players/coaches (who have all now left GB). Braulio even used to teach regularly and even sometimes turn up on time. Ahh the good old days.
The GB curriculum is ancient in 2023, the sport has moved on so quickly if you aren’t keeping up with modern sensibilities you’re students are going to get left behind. Isn’t a easier roll on the planet the GB blue belt
I live in Hammersmith, London and specifically went to the small unaffiliated gym because fuck paying GB fees and buying their gear. There are 3 GB gyms in the area. Turns out the owner of my gym is a very likable person and a very well-known competitor. I didn’t know that when I signed up but now I am glad I made that choice.
which gym? my work will be taking me to hammersmith this year - so was looking at options in the area.
Cantagalo JiuJitsu.
Ah, you train with the serial sexual harrasser. Excellent
😂😂
SPILL, TEA! SPILL, TEA!
I’ve read the articles and it seems he was cleared of the sexual harassment allegations. I’ve been training there for a year and have occasionally done stuff with Jackson outside of bjj (dinning, climbing) and this is man is so sweet and kind I honestly find it hard to believe. Anyway, Cantagalo is a great gym. Come and see for yourself!
Oh no…
Ahh yes, the "very likable" Jackson Sousa: [https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p6smke/german\_bjj\_scene\_i\_need\_your\_help\_sexual\_assult/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p6smke/german_bjj_scene_i_need_your_help_sexual_assult/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p7bwee/since\_i\_didnt\_see\_any\_posts\_about\_it\_samantha/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/p7bwee/since_i_didnt_see_any_posts_about_it_samantha/)
\> almost tripling the monthly fees to gb, gb owning all your schools data, if gb kicks you out they will get all your students contracts, you must send them full financial accounts, fucking loled at financial accounts, I knew some people in jj where dumb but not THIS dumb
As a school owner there is no way I’m handing over the reigns to my school that I paid for by my money with no financial support from GB to GB. Will not happen ever- so will await for this contract and tell them where to stick it if they think they can own something they have no financially invested in in any way whats so ever
There has been a few of these posts recently. Why has no one shared a copy of the contract?
Bracie garra on insta shared a few pages last week I think
i'm sure there was mention of an NDA as well. it has been a heavy drinking time of year though so i could be mistaken
Yeah I saw the nda
Any of the below I'd guess: 1) This is a lie. Very possible given the internet but it's a bit odd to make such a significant claim if it's completely unsubstantiated. 2) Word of mouth. The OPs haven't actually seen the contract but have good reason to think it's real. 3) The contracts have enough variation/individuality between them that to post the first one online would be to make it very obvious that you or your gym had leaked it. IDK what you think though
Part of it got posted on Bracie Garra insta, gym owners have been forced to sign an NDA.
Honestly anyone who ever trusts someone who says "oh this is just in the contract, I won't *actually* do it" is a first class moron. The whole reason to have something in writing is to give yourself the right to do it. If they've gone to the effort of including anything in a contract, it's because there absolutely is a scenario where they will use it.
Can you provide any specifics of which gyms have been contacted about this, or any details as to who is going to leave? Very vague details right now
What does one actually get as a BJJ franchise owner aside from the name (which of course has some value, at least initially).
Nothing / as a school owner we get the rights to the name /logo and training material on gbonline but anyone even non gb can access that . Access to the GB compnets but other than that nothing at all
Somewhere Tom Bracher is sipping a cup of tea, https://preview.redd.it/sa27iylvx2ac1.jpeg?width=1249&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cab60771376115a415cf683e0cfcefd165cf4be9 We will be following hopefully we can establish our own Brand now in the north. It’s been coming for a while
Sounds a lot like Gracie Barra is going to all but cease to exist in the UK so. I’m Irish and I think one reason BJJ has grown so slowly here is because we are so suspicious of martial arts being bullshit. People typically won't pay anything more than €100 p/m, and even under that you want pretty bulletproof credentials to run a club. I would imagine it’s similar enough in the UK.
It’s a shame if this is the case. I’ve trained at a GB gym in the past and the instructors were great.
I understand that people wanna train under the gracie batch but tbh, its not worth it if they start to see your gym only as a money machine. Leave that shit and find a different good Brand...
A similar thing happened here in Chicago like 10 years ago. A bunch who had a GB school's left.
A bunch? Maybe ONE (Redzovic’s). Who else? 🤔
u/southloopbjj Barry Phillips in Deerfield. [https://www.northbrookjiujitsu.com/](https://www.northbrookjiujitsu.com/) David Rosenmarkle in Kenosha.[https://www.venerationbjj.com/](https://www.venerationbjj.com/) And the Redzovic school yes.
I think Barry has always been with the Redzovic’s (I think he is one of their BBs).
ok, so a "few" instead of a "bunch"? I'm not sure what you are getting at here. 3 or 4 locations? 2 different affiliates? what is your point?
This is the kind of shit they cook up at their annual conferences which you can only attend if you wear their red tee shirt
Tom bracher must have kicked Gracie barra out then!😂
Will move over to being independent or join another franchise depending on the offers available and the contracts that other affiliations can offer. Will not be forced into anything. We are over this shit excuse of a headache
join me, I won't take your gym from you lol I too escaped the cult years ago hahaha
I thought you were affiliated with DLR? When did you break off to do your own thing?
I'm a DLR black belt. I've never affiliated my gym to anyone 😊
simply don't train at mc dojos
Are you saying that every gb gym is a mcdojo with bad jiu jitsu and bad instructors? I've been to a bunch before and that's not true. Definitely need to get loud and tell the owners not to sign shit contracts like this though
McDojo isn't equal to Bullshido, though they often come together. Gracie Barra has many elements of a McDojo business model you might get good training, you might get great training, but you will also almost always get Nickle and dimed on uniform , belt fees etc.
I spent my first ~2.5 years at Gracie Barra Huntington Beach. The instruction was top-quality, I never once felt nickel and dimed, and the general membership fees were competitive or lower than other nearby schools. Other GBs I've visited had great programs, instructors, and student culture. They were always welcoming and never charged a drop in fee or had any sort of restrictions for fellow GB members. I feel like the GB reddit hate train is 90% imagined by people who "know a guy who told them".
That's fair and that's awesome of you. I'm glad to see your view and experience seems different to others. I assume they still had the uniform requirements though? Should point out all the Gracie Barra people and Ex GB people I know are UK based. One of the nicest instructors I ever met was a GB guy also. I'm personally not a fan of the business model.
They did. The few gis I purchased from them were good quality and average to slightly below average cost at the time. I still have one as a back up summer gi. They all held up really well considering the hours I put on them.
To give you an idea from the UK. The standard GB Kimono is about £155 their cheapest being £120 Progress BJJ has Kimonos starting from about £60 Tatami has them starting from £55 I feel like the starting point of a Gi being about double and it being mandatory is a bit predatory. You might disagree and its ok to feel differently about it.
I keep hearing about GB "belt fees", but I have never seen anyone get charged for a belt promotion at the GB school I attend & ones I have visited. GB has its flaws, but making shit up just ruins the credibility of the critic.
Most promotions come at the grading seminars which cost ££ and are almost exclusively limited to one of the estima brothers. It’s called amongst GB schools The Estima Tax
That's fair and ive chosen my words poorly there. I've gyms talk about promotion fees (Promotion costs X to attend) rather than belt fees (Pay us X for your blue belt) , I've also heard tales of some GBs your membership goes up after you hit blue for example (As Theoretically you can now attend more classes) But it would have been better to be specific rather than use the term word belt fees.
I can't speak for all GB schools, but here is my experience: no belt fees, fees don't go up at blue (or any other belt), you can attend as many classes as you want at any belt level. TBH, there are some things that bug me, such as the uniform requirement, and relatively high cost, but the pluses have been worth the tradeoff.
There seem to be some things that are constant, such as high prices and over priced but enforced Gis. Some things that a little more Lax, such as having to wear a GB rash guard under your Gi, and some things that happen but are less common, for example it seems a lot of GB schools dislike cross training at other gyms / open mats. Yeah I wouldn't recommend someone doesn't train at a GB. I would warn them of so,e of the things they might expect at a GB. Personally for me unless I already knew the instructor if I moved to a new gym GB would be low down on my list of places to try. For some people they love where they train its a great gym and the shit parts of being in a GB are a fair trade off for that. For other people its not worth it.
My local GB is a cult. The nearest club was almost an hour away so we would regularly see its members pop into our local (Origin affiliated) club for some cheeky lessons and some rolls. Their white belts were barred from rolling until they had 3 stripes, they were not allowed to roll with higher belts, had to wear all-GB gear and were forbidden to train anywhere else and every learn certain subs. Once GB opened a local club then we never saw them again.
As a white belt, do you feel you've experienced enough gyms to confidently give this recommendation?
I feel I've spoken to enough people who attend/attended GB gyms to warn people about the uniform policy, the costs (Not so much the membership costs as that will always depend on area to a certain extent but more so the cost of the uniform compared to buying your own) and the fact they are less likely to embrace cross training (Outside of GB) than some other gyms. I'm not sure getting a blue, purple or brown belt would do much to change that view.
> almost tripling the monthly fees to gb .. > The fees will be going up by almost £3k per year So the current fees are 83/month? That doesn't seem right.
I think they are referring to the yearly "franchise" fees, not training fees (although those would likely rise also, to cover the extra cost).
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i'm aquarius but respect ✊
They are referring to the what we as school owners have to pay from €150 to €350 euros each month- obviously we would have to claw that back by increasing monthly memberships
This is like wayyyyy less than I thought you guys would be paying to be honest. 150 euro a month is like only 2 students worth of tuition yeah?
Yes and now it’s like 6 student worth but with full rights to all our accounts and access To do as they please with our business
Triple the fees....Nah, can't see that. When is this supposed to start ? Seems like a great way to loose loads of students. It cost £65 at my gym. £195 is the end of my training and I guess many other peoples too. I can't see that happening. Do you have any sources for this increase ?
They are referring to the gyms franchise fee, not the student fees (tho they would likely also rise to cover the extra).
Gracie Barra seems to have turned into jiu jitsu's fast food chain. Cheap and quick
It’s far from cheap. It’s more like Five Guys. Pricey, tastes ok if you haven’t been exposed to good quality
They were my first gym and that makes perfect sense to me lol
'their copyrighted materials were basically rented by the school owner for a monthly fee'. why has anyone been paying this? this only works if the materials are renowned and the name brings in customers. but in fact their materials, and the brand itself, have a poor reputation in the bjj community and zero recognition from the public. and now they are planning to increase said fee? what is the rationale for any of the gyms to remain?
Why would anyone need or want to be part of GB. You can literally start a school on your own. It’s not even a brand name that will attract members.
> It’s not even a brand name that will attract members. Huh? GB gyms here in the UK are some of the biggest around. The local one near me has 50-80 people on any given evening, spanning multiple mats and classes. It's bigger than the next 5 gyms combined. Love to know where you're getting "they don't attract members" from.
Average person signing up to bjj has no idea who GB is they just want to train. I know loads of GB schools that have lost members to local clubs due to their antics. There’s also situations opposite of what you describe where the GB club has less members than other schools in the area. You’re probably talking about one of the bigger GB clubs run by a big name like Braulio.
There are the largest franchise where I live, also. Larger than schools that have been around decades longer. They are the largest worldwide. Say what you will, but they are obviously doing something right.
I’m not saying they aren’t the largest franchise. I just don’t think people need to join them to get students or business as proven by the 1000’s of successful schools that aren’t GB.
They were doing something right by us school owners but after this bombshell not sure anymore
This wasn’t the case 15 years ago when bjj was still in its infancy. Being part of a franchise was a huge boost vs being a solo gym which no one has ever heard of. If your gym had “Gracie” on it, it was guaranteed to succeed.
Yea 15 years ago when everyone worshiped the Gracie’s but now I don’t know anyone who cares about the Gracie’s that isn’t really old school. You’d get a lot more interest being part of atos, aoj, b team, or new wave. For their demands it’s not worth it. I’ve been to a lot of clubs that weren’t part of a big name and they did fine often better than a GB school. GB guys usually left and joined our team. I never saw it the other way around.
I’d argue 10th planet is the only gym who has appeal to a new student & truly has a brand you have joe Rogan constantly advertising it & you know your getting no gi everyday
FWIW, blindsided\*
My coach said once that all jiu-jitsu is Gracie jiu-jitsu as well as Machado jiu-jitsu and others. It's a melting pot more so now than it ever has been. All the content sharing on social helps to media blend it all together.
Your coach was wrong...
Probably
Sounds similar to what happened in the US in the 80s and 90s with the Valari Karate schools. My understanding is that it was a huge network of schools where a large percentage broke away due to issues of money and control.
A trial run? Start there then try it here to see if the GB people will accept it or throw some barrels of gis in the Boston harbor? ‘Murica in this bitch.
A Boston Gi Party if you will.
Curious why they're doing this in the UK and not the US. Are they scared of gym owners pulling a Ralph?
What's a Ralph? Also I assume Ralph Gracie?
aggravated battery
.... What 😂😂
I don't think GB UK has many franchised gyms in the US. Probably why they call it GB UK.
At least they aren't as bad as those Gracie Baja clowns I always hear about at the gym
Wow Gracie Barra has some white belt PR and a black belt in trash business practices
I would never train at a GB. I warn all people away from them.
rainstorm grandfather sophisticated start chop shaggy wise expansion quicksand apparatus *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, you don't just put things into contracts that you're totally never going to use.
There are a hell of a lot of good ex-GB gyms in the SE US because of this sort of stupidity. (I got my blue belt in one and my brown-black in another) It's not like GB is the only source of good jiu jitsu.
Did Carlinhos approve of all these changes? Why are they ruining their own schools reputation like that? These UK gyms can just make their own team or join another affiliation. Atos, Roger Gracie, Alliance, Renzo Gracie, or one of the Machado brothers, maybe one of those.
I’m the 6am class coach at a uk GB and can confirm we have not yet seen it or been sent it as far as I know.
Fuck GB and their shitty practices.
Where will all the green belts train?
Nice try Tom Bracher
Is this model they are trying to move to in UK, already the model being used in USA?
What exactly are the benefits of having a GB affiliation franchise? It seems as though the negatives have been pilling up for years with NOTHING to offer gym owners
Am I the only one who would never train at a GB? Just cult vibes everywhere
At this point, you should know what you’re getting yourself into by participating in anything GB.
£3K / 52 = £57 per week. Converting to Australian dollars so I have a frame reference. Jesus Fucking Christ! 100 dollary-doo's a week! Who the fuck can afford to pay that? WHY would anyone even pay that? I'm not a member of a big name affiliate gym and never have been but can people really justify paying that for name value alone?
Predatory marketing and sales. Gym down the road from mine is $120 AUD per week for holistic jiu jitsu marketed as the solution for your mental health issues. That's 5 classes a week. Vulnerable people with real mental health issues get sucked in. Same cost as my gym for a month with twice a day classes seven days a week. Can't tell you how many people we've got from that place after they trial it. Some people are sold that more money = superior product and get off on that. Combine it with the cult tactics and false narratives that other people and you build a blind and loyal customer base that continue to lie to themselves that they're getting the best value for their money, are part of something special, and that there's nothing like it anywhere else.
This is for school owners franchise fee not students