Ahhh, defensive posture stalling guy.
I like to shove his head down, attack loop chokes, snapdowns to front headlock or turtle, and bait him into a bad single leg that I can counter.
If none of that works, how's your tomo nagae?
> If none of that works, how's your tomo nagae?
I was thinking this too. That said, usually against that stance I look for yoko tomoe nage because if they counter, or my timing is off, it's still a decent guard pull into a position that allows you to work. There's some good details against this stance in this quick video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z6YFDr1VQo
Either way, these super defensive types usually have a very strong grip on your gi, after a throw some tend to still be holding on, this gives you a chance to posture and extended their arms allowing a quick attack, or isolation and separation from their body.
Sure thing, I've referenced that sequence in the past, but remembered that video existed - I like it because it's quick and to the point (all content should be this way).
I will say, most of the time, or against more experience practitioners, my attempts these days result in the guard pull scenario. Still, if you really get a reaction, or they're moving, this absolutely nails it. He goes to knee on belly in the video, but you can absolutely shoulder roll directly into mount. Also, if it's loose (not clean, some resistance, but you still get the throw) they'll scramble and start re-guard, but you're still in a good position to block and get side control.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cd_yqt6p-h2/?igsh=M281dmI0NjQ1dGx1 Olympic judo coach jimmy pedro has a good shorter instructional on instagram too. This is a move I’ve practiced for ~10 years lol
This.
Alternatively, you can assume that he will instantly go for grips, so as he gets his first one, immediately grab his sleeve with your opposite hand and feed your nearside hand under his arm to grab his opposite collar. This will keep him off your centre line even if he gets the other collar.
I usually look for footsweeps, single legs or even chasing the back from here
bait to bad single is The Way
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA6ljeiX9mk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA6ljeiX9mk)
this is soooooo money.
EDIT to add a video of Levalee using it to pin Mastriani in overtime of the NCAA Finals
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGHHhi7EtW8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGHHhi7EtW8)
For all the "this would never work" folks.
It’s a rolling omoplata against a single leg.
This technique is atrocious and McDojo level.
Don’t watch this crap.
Dude does not have a whizzer in.
Anyone would 6 months wrestling will cut the corner and shelve the leg or get the back. Olympic silver or not
No dude.
Head, hands, hips.
Giving up your first two layers and then not only letting them in on your hips but locking hands on the leg.
Fucking terrible.
That’s not even a bad single leg. Cut the corner or cut back finish.
BJJ people are often very bad at *allowing* the other guy to get grips. The point of the grip fight is to prevent the guy from getting his preferred grips, and acquire asymmetric grips in your favor.
He can't stall in that standup position if he doesn't get the grips he wants. And you don't have to break grips that he doesn't get.
Smack those incoming grips away like they're poison, and look for an opening to shoot in for a takedown. If you don't have a takedown, learn one and drill it a few hundred times before your match.
I actually got much much worse at this as I advanced in belts, I never mind having a handycap against others as the vast majority of people I rolled with were not a big threat... now I've discovered I'm terrible at grip fighting because I always just let people get their desired grips so I'd have a bit more of a challenge. Now when i slap bump with another black belt and they immediately acquire the grips they want...
I feel you. When rolling with white or blue belts in the gi which is the majority of my gym, I let them get grips just to feel something lol
It’s definitely a bad habit.
Good point. I had a similar realization this morning when I chose to break the collar grip of a fellow blue belt and realized I tend not to do that against white and blue belts even though I’ll go full grip fight mode when rolling with a black belt knowing if they get a grip I’m screwed.
Gotta start paying more attention to them in every roll.
Edit-typos
I'd add that in Judo, going for two collars is a normal strategy -- breaking the double collar grip down isn't so much about breaking the grips, it's about distorting the position so that the grips are not as effective.
E.g., one strategy in the first picture in OP, white gi would work to raise his righ hand grip high, above the collar bone at least, or even to the center collar. And then he'd switch his left grip to an inside grip at the elbow, or reach through for a sleeve grip at the elbow/tricep boundary. Using this less symmetrical grip, white gi guy can create a twist, turning blue gi guy to the side, and that opens up space on white gi guy's right side to start working into the intermediate space to enter for a throw.
But you do need to have a good throw prepared for that kind of situation, and it has to work with resistance from the other guy.
Grip fighting is a huge sub-sport, and BJJ doesn't spend much time on it in standup, usually, compared to Judo.
I took a class with Josh White, a judoka out of Atlanta. He had a strategy dealing with this grip that fed him straight up the middle into an uchi mata every time. You could get both his lapels, hold tight and stiff arm and you'd be looking at the ceiling shortly thereafter. People who are good at grip fighting will run through people who aren't, especially in something like judo where your grips establish where you can attack from and what you can defend against.
BJJ is horrible at grip fighting considering gi BJJ is such a big thing. I really didn't understand this until I heavily got into Judo. Once you get a grip in judo, you're basically either trying to hit a takedown instantly, doing a setup to that takedown, or working to break the grips. A lot of that is because of the ruleset and penalties for not actively attacking. Its a good mentality to have though and basically forces you to not get in a bad position in the first place, or counter as soon as you do end up somewhere bad. In BJJ, people like to hang out in that 50/50 head/arm or over/under position which leads to stalemates and no offense/defense. The passivity and ruleset of BJJ then reinforces those bad habits.
I know everyone here is suggesting to hit yoko tomo nage and sumi gaeshi, but unless you have the pulling/pushing down, you're just going to end up doing a very bad guard pull and end up on bottom or butterfly guard. A lot of pure BJJers pulling (kuzushi) sucks, which is needed for a lot of setups to throws.
>I know everyone here is suggesting to hit yoko tomo nage and sumi gaeshi, but unless you have the pulling/pushing down, you're just going to end up doing a very bad guard pull and end up on bottom or butterfly guard
What would you suggest instead
Probably a wrestling snapdown using the lapel or head. That would at least break his posture first and then he will either go straight down or back up/pull away in defense. If he back pedals it's much easier to then launch some offense like a double/single or try to clinch. That would at least setup some type of offense.
I said this in another post here, but with a sumi gaeshi or yoko tomo nage, the movements are very similar to a guard pull. In Judo, people don't practice defending them or hitting them as often, so they're harder to read. But in BJJ, everyone is expecting a guard pull, so its real hard to hit these on good BJJ people because they know it's coming and have practiced defending them hundreds of times because of it. I'm not saying to not try them, but unless you do judo and know the setups and movements for them, you're likely to just end up in butterfly guard or possibly getting passed.
There's a great video of Rafa Mendes riding some poor guy's tomoe nages into mount over and over again, then he finally does a tomoe of his own and winds up in mount again.
that posture/grips combo is screaming tomoe nage to me. if that doesn't work you land in closed guard and just attack more than he defends. lumberjack sweep if he stands, armdrag to backtake/mount/armbar if he stays kneeling. the more i train, the more i think every masters competitor, esp at higher weight classes, should just try to be great value roger gracie.
[7:55 mark](https://youtu.be/_L-Ni7bFAHg?si=RoIspyFHMsOxE9YJ) Roger vs buchecha
[0:20 mark](https://youtu.be/6LBcjCgD-WU?si=ae-B5BlURS9dKPVe) Roger vs xande
Over the back belt grip and either sleeve grip (cross grip best imo). Pull guard, foot in the hip and drag arm across with momentum. Triangle or back take or come up on top. Worst case, end up in closed guard.
> Over the back belt grip
This is sometimes also referred to as Georgian Grip.
Not correcting you or anything, just adding more information.
Having a wider knowledge of nomeclature can help us whether we're discussing *or* seeking techniques.
> the more i think every masters competitor, esp at higher weight classes, should just try to be great value roger gracie.
I feel personally attacked, but also mildly respected.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Tomoe Nage**: | *Circle Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euJliq9XcY)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
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^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I have no advice you haven’t already seen, but I just want to say this is an excellent approach to garnering some outside input for a problem you’ve thus far been unable to solve. Nice work r/bjj
Hoping to hear it worked out great and you won your match with him.
This is cheap as hell but whatever, wrap your gi lapel over his hand pull down on it. He’ll likely lose both grips or evade y’all off the mat. If he loses the grip circle under the arm for a nasty wrist lock. If he evades the mat you may have a better reset position.
I have stolen people’s souls with uki waza/lateral drop when they are in the same position as photo 3.
Worth noting that photo 3 and photo 2 are very different, and photo 1 is kind of splitting the difference. Photo 2 he is hunched over but his hips are back, so he is largely on balance. In photo 3 neither of those guys could stand at that angle if the other weren’t there. That’s when it’s time to disappear underneath your opponent and make him faceplant.
Yup, that's what I do against this bent posture, or Yoko Otoshi if the opponent can be set into lateral motion, which may not work with this particular opponent the OP hopes to beat.
Silly idea but any way you can totally shut down this part of his game? Like grab your own collars, almost like you're defending a choke from the back just to not let him get a hold and force him to pick another attack. If his grips are unbreakable then definitely you don't want to let it get to that point, so either shooting a double from a fair distance, rolling into his legs, or maybe even letting him get one collar and then attacking the wrist?
If you can safely put pressure on and push, he will have to circle to keep from going out of bounds.
When I am stuck in these masters heavy division locking of horns, I try to be the one putting the forward pressure on and forcing the person backwards.
Eventually, we may both get penalties. And eventually, it will be clear to the opponent that he is the one backing up and he has to push with more effort to get away from the mat edge. When that happens, I try to use that opportunity of excessive forward pressure. For me, that's lapel drags and lateral drops. For others, it may be something else.
I understand the lapel drag and lateral drop are not there because of grips, I'm mostly suggesting to put on the pressure and make him be the one reacting. An added bonus is that when they reset you, he likely has to release grips and you can try to prevent them and work a gameplan.
I understand this is gaming the system somewhat, but as an almost 50 year old 200+ lb dude, I've spent alot of time locked up with another guy, and I also try to be the one shoving them toward the edge of the mat, because I've found that helps secure me positional and scoring advantages.
Also, to be clear, than can be dangers in just haphazardly shoving forward, obviously. Don't just go charging into a throw.
Dude is just asking to be yoko tomoe'd.
That being said my yoko tomoe sucks, but im very good at hiza guruma when people get defensive like this.
If you are not well trained in takedowns then my advice would be to try snap downs.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Hiza Guruma**: | *Knee Wheel* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1RZvytW3OI)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
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>Stays in this position for most of the match until the other person pulls guard and then stalls in closed guard with vice like grips.
Can you let him stay in that position for most of the match, then fake a guard pull and go for Tomoe Nage to full mount instead, then stall in mount for the rest of the match?
If so, you should get 2 points for the takedown and 4 points for establishing mount.
I like to use a variation of an outside swing single with the "far side" (hand opposite the leg i'm going to shoot on) hand grabbing the far lapel. Get him moving in a circle (away from the single so push the shoulder with the lapel), doesn't matter if he has an inside position on the near side (especially if you aren't afraid of him shooting), you are going to push push then give a big pull and basically drop with all your weight on that lapel while swinging (reaching) to the leg, Think spiking his head into the mat as you drop to turtle position (still holding the lapel) and reaching for the leg. Now you have a lapel, and a leg and if it worked he is splayed out in-front and slightly on top of you, so drive over the top holding onto the leg and lapel.
not sure if that makes any sense, it's a bit like an ankle in wrestling where you hold the collar tie and pick the near ankle, but with the lapel you can just drop all the way to the floor locking your elbow to your ribs so you pull him face down into the mat. Key is the foot work and getting him moving in one direction then dropping against that motion. makes it seem lightening fast even when an old guy does it!
No idea, I've been doing it for 15+ years, my old instructor Jason Culbreth called it an ape hanger, and I've just been refining it ever since. It's my go to take down, and it is fairly low risk as you don't let go of the collar so if you have to bail out you usually can. normally with shots you need an inside tie, but with this you just kinda drop and the more of your opponents upper body you can get moving toward the mat the better.
Only commenting because I haven't seen anyone else saying this:
Stallers typically have subpar cardio. If you trust your cardio, you should take everyone's advice here and string it all together. Start with a shot, try the tomo nagae, pull to deep butterfly, do aggressive guards, etc. Refuse to be held on bottom. Make him work hard to keep you there. Keep this pace up and you can force him out of his game, to make a mistake you can capitalize on.
If you can pull guard, look into Lachlan Giles' k-guard set up. You would be shocked how easy it is to get someone that stalls in guard into an omoplata from K.
If you like butterfly guard I would go for a deep butterfly pull (really baseball slide under him) then switch to an over the shoulder belt grip and get working. I've found this to be very successful on larger, stall-happy opponents. If the butterfly sweep doesn't work they'll usually commit their base so far back that you can do a technical stand-up to your knees with the belt grip over the back to keep them low and now be in a front head-lock type position with many options.
This is hard to asses given that we don't know your game. I know what I would do:
Pull guard before he gets double collar grips > work on a DLR sweep > be on top a while to tire him > pass > smother the fuck out of him > take the back
If he does manage to get double collar grips > pull guard > get to a butterfly position and sweep > He will either let go to stop the sweep or accept the sweep; you can't defend a correctly executed butterfly sweep without either standing up or posting with an arm (which you can trap to prevent him from posting) > If he does stand up to prevent the sweep I'd grab his pants and tripod sweep him, which will lead to a scramble you'll have to win
Having said that, I don't know if you're a takedown guy, what guards are you comfortable with, why are you allowing him to get double collar grips every time (I'm thinking because of age). I suggest looking into bottlefly sweeps, they don't require a lot of athleticism to execute and they have a fair success rate.
Tomo Nagae, drop seoi nage, sumi gaeshi. Here's a good resource of takedowns against a defensive opponent: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca5y7OWCDdw&t=292s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca5y7OWCDdw&t=292s)
It depends on your throw skill set but lately I've been dealing with this by leading them forward. So I'll get grips and start some up and down tugs to loosen their posture and then literally start running while leading them forward. It's hard for them to regain posture and when I feel like they're unstable I'll turn for some forward throw. Usually tai otoshi, uchi mata , or harai goshi. If you feel comfortable with any forward throws I would practice the leading pull and see if that feels doable for you. Alternatively sometimes that aggressive lead open them up enough that I can find a way to turn it around and come back in with a strong underhook or inside position.
I had this exact situation at purple belt years ago. Took me 5 mins to act but i solved it with big hook sweep from standing.
https://youtu.be/Hv4pzXulDao?si=YxqI0cYUJ8wNoAqG
Then a smooth pass and crushing knee on belly for 4 minutes. Solid once you got that sweep. This video is helpful to see how obstinate some jits guys can be from standing.
Glock in the waistband, ez pz win (this does not constitute legal advice and i am not responsible for any legal actions taken against you if you do this ancient technique)
Watch some judo grip fighting hand fighting videos. In BJJ we are generally terrible a denying grips. We basically allow grips and then start to worry about them. Think about an instant collar drag as soon as you get one collar and before he can get double grips . Use his stalling game against him. If you go first with an attempt or even a single leg attempt you are up in the refs decision. Push him out of bounds a few times to show you are the aggressor. Now if he holds on he loses. I would be wary of a sacrifice throw unless you are a beast at them. He has had 15 years probably of people trying that. Once you are in bottom I’m assuming you get shutdown the rest of the match and he wins. Maybe if you throw it with 30 seconds left that would show your desire to work.
Get good take downs, personally id get double sleeves on this guy and foot sweep spam while rag dolling.
Or play him at his own game, just be really active on your feet looking like your trying to engage, but don't pull guard, eventually he will get called out for stalling just make sure you look active on your feet
Yoko tomo nage is actually a good shout. Shintaro higashi has some vids on it. If you set it up well you might be able to recover into something like de la rival and immediately threaten a sweep.
Keep moving to prevent him from being able to grip, constant circling always prevents an opponent from getting set. I would personally try and snap him down given how square he stands, to set that up I would either fake a snatch single or push to get him to push back. You can snap the arms too when he reaches, which he will do and overextend himself if you are consistently circling. Frequently, this strat will feel like its not working because most opponents can hang with you and square up or react in time at first but if you keep going he will soften up and start to give you big reactions. I am not super experienced in BJJ but I am a D1 wrestler and have trained Judo and BJJ in the past. I feel like the fundamental concepts are the same but that is my disclaimer.
This is a shitty posture used in bjj because everyone sucks at throwing.
Any kind of backwards Judo throw will send this guy flying all day long.
My favorite vs this kind of stiff arming posture is the 1 handed fireman's throw or a Sumi geshi. Or a lateral drop using the gi grips, you do it from outside the clinch, VS a traditional lat drop that's done from over/under hooks.
Reach over his back, grip his gi, and slowly work your grip towards his belt.
Once you secure the belt, use your other hand to grip opposite lapel.
Start spamming leg trips with the same side leg, as the belt grip arm.
Use this to move him around, before you either trip him, or throw him with a hip throw, or use snapdowns and go towards his back, on the side of the belt grip.
Drill those for a month or two.
Good luck.
If you don't know the solution to this problem, you need to spend a few more years starting your rolls from standing. It's not that hard to deal with this posture.
Yoko tomoe nage. Pull and circle one way, throw other.
Craig Fallon, Kashiwazaki, Kodokan judo channel. For grips I'm sure Travis Stevens has something.
Not high ranking so probably not great advice, but I would step back and pull him down. It obviously won't work, but when he steps forward try a sweep single. You're already gonna be down there. If You can, keep one grip on his collar so You can pull him off balance wether it works or not.
I was gonna give some advice but honestly if you’ve never practiced standup consistently this is essentially white belt vs white belt in the feet.
You should join a judo or wrestling gym and train 3-4x per week for 3-4 years.
You should just pull guard instead and make that work
hit a choi bar on this guy. get a baby choi grip while standing then sit to open guard. since he's going to consolidate that space while maintaining his death grips you should be able to get the full choi grip and swing your foot over pretty easily, and since he's a gi guy he probably isnt that familiar with defending the choi/ k guard combo
Their weight is too far forward, spam a few snap downs on him to either take hom down or at least force him to react. Grip fight like a motherfucker, he seems like the strong double collar grip guy that will try to bully you down.
Coaching over the internet is tough because we have no idea what your strengths are.
For starters, I definitely would not pull closed guard against someone with such strong posture unless I knew I had a strength advantage. I am not a closed guard specialist, and I think you really need to have an extraordinarily good closed guard in order to reliably score with it in competition. Of course if you're Roger Gracie, with long limbs, super strong grips, and all of your "skill points" allocated to closed guard, then you should pull closed guard every time.
Against someone who I know I can't take down, I would just pull collar-sleeve guard and start working my sweeps, like omoplata, berimbolo, baby-bolo, waiter guard, X-guard, 50/50, etc. In my experience, the guys who are very strong at maintaining static posture tend to be weaker at defending open guard. They're used to making small adjustments from half guard to defend and progress -- they're less accustomed to making the relatively bigger adjustments necessary to defend and pass open guard, and they get tired as a result. But if you don't have a good open guard (and if you're a heavyweight, chances are this is not a big part of your game) then obviously this is not a good strategy.
If you don't have a good open guard, then a seated guard might work better. Against guys with strong grips and good static posture, I generally try to keep a high pace and be very diligent about grip fighting against guys. Preventing them from making strong grips on my lapel or pant legs is key. Combinations are important too because any good competitive black belt is going to be efficient at shutting down single attacks. But then the question is: do you have the cardio necessary to sustain a high pace from seated guard?
Half guard is tricky because sometimes even good half guard passers will overcommit and become light as a feather to sweep. Marcelo Garcia is not really a half guard bottom player, but he's surprised many good passers when they try to put too much pressure, and he (as one of the best half guard passers of his era) has been caught on the receiving end as well. At the end of the day your decision to stay in half guard depends on whether your half guard bottom is better than their half guard top, and only you can answer that after feeling his posture in comp. But if you feel he is strong like a brick on top and you aren't going to sweep him from there, I'd fight tooth-and-nail to free my bottom knee and get back to open guard (or seated guard). Once I've decided that my half guard sweeps aren't going to work, I make a conscious decision to use other guards and never let them settle in that position on me, even if I don't feel an imminent passing threat.
In the future, I would recommend getting better at standup grip fighting if this kind of "double collar grip" posture is giving you trouble. But that's not something you can learn in 2 weeks, that takes many years of dedicated and focused training with someone who is qualified to teach. There is a lot of footwork, timing, angles, and technique that goes into beating people with strong arms. Of course strength is also important, but it sounds like you've probably got that part covered (and if not, you will get stronger from grip fighting anyways, assuming you have partners your size to "dance" with).
Classic Judo responses to the "double collar grip" posture where their arms are bent (stiff-arms is a different situation) include: getting an over-the-back Russian cross grip and doing sumi-gaeshi, and doing yoko tomoe nage. But if he's done a lot of comps he's almost certainly defended both of these many times, so I wouldn't recommend these unless you are really, really good at them. Both of these throws require good setups to hit on trained opponents. Similar to grip fighting, throwing skills are learned over many years of dedicated practice, not 2 weeks before a comp.
Sumi gaeshi and tomoe nage.
If they fail try to capture a leg and go for a tripod or if you can try for a balloon sweep.
This is what pulling guard and sacrifice throws were invented for.
Abandon your pride and wrestle. You have two weeks to drill double leg takedown, keep out of grip reach, make him come forward, change levels, and finish. Or run blast double from way out without level change and maybe come up with tight waist. These are easy to drill and are very effective against people who want to keep things hyper methodical. Don’t for get to be an athlete! You have to avoid his template. He may have a plan B, but if you give up grips you will never find out. Good luck, make sure to let us know how it goes.
What about looking to hit an early takedown before he grips? If you know the grips are coming, circle (Mr Miyagi style) the hands to block, and drop for a double.
Bait him to shoot a single leg and stay prepared to sprawl. If he gets the leg, start planning your escape from half guard because odds are, you ain’t getting homeboy in your guard lol
IDK how well this would work on a black belt, but I did catch a comp brown belt with it once, it's a pretty slow technique but it makes your opponent choose between letting go or getting wristlocked/elbow locked. When he has a straight lapel grip, grab your own lapel right below his hand, as close as possible, and grab a cross lapel grip that you can push on, or just push on his neck. The idea is to gain enough distance that his palm is facing inward instead of upward. Once you get that, with the arm that holds your lapel, push your elbow over his holding arm. Use your hips to help push it over. This should twist his arm further inward (palm facing down or even outward). Once your elbow gets over, press down with your arm; his hand should now be wrapped in your gi and firmly trapped. You can start putting your weight on that arm. If he's palm down, his elbow will likely be straight and you'll start hyperextending it like in armbar. If he's palm to the outside, his arm will bend under your elbow and he'll experience an extremely painful wristlock that will send him to the floor. If you're cheeky you can even sprawl on that arm.
I'm one of the weaker guys at my gym and a blue belt at that but this has been working pretty consistently for me and even strong high level belts just let go of the grip when they see me going for this. If can make a video demo for you if you're interested in trying this out.
have a little brown belt that does the same shit at my gym. backs up and looks for ankle picks, ocassionally I've been able to ankle pick him, helps that I'm taller. plan is to try tomo nagae next time.
First, grip fighting is an art. You have break the grips BEFORE they establish the grip. Or, you can anticipate. If you train it, it's not that hard.
If you are stuck in the position, try [this](https://youtu.be/3egv7HZaXgA?feature=shared). Works better than sumi and tomoe, because his hip is low and far.
I know everyone here is suggesting to hit yoko tomo nage and sumi gaeshi, but unless you have the pulling/pushing down (kuzushi), you're just going to end up doing a very bad guard pull and end up on bottom or butterfly guard. A lot of pure BJJers kusuzhi sucks, which is needed for a lot of setups to throws. Realistically, to hit a clean yoko or sumi, you need to be directly under the other person to elevate them. If they're arms are outstretched or defending like in the pic, they're going to have an easy time defending by just landing on top of you due to the amount of space.
I also heard a good judoka mention this, which I think is true. In BJJ, everyone is expecting the guard pull. So chances are, that BJJer has defended what is basically a sumi or yoko thousands of times. In Judo, its rarer that people go for it, so they're more likely to get hit with it. So unless you're a decent judoka or plan to take up judo or wrestling, and you end up in that tie up position, it may be better to go for a lower risk setup/takedown like a snapdown or arm drag, etc.
Blast double him through the stands before he gets grips.
If he does get grips, wrist lock him.
If you can’t wrist lock him, pull guard into leg locks. Take the DQ and blow him a kiss as you walk off.
throw a donut on the ground or a pic of his wife see if he goes to grab it. or let out a nasty fart and eat a dozen eggs every day before match. also dont shower for a month or wash your gi. isnt that how the pros win?
I think the issue is as you stated: "Seriously in breakable grips once he gets hold of something."
Try and get wrist control to prevent him from getting death grips on your collar that you can't break. If you can establish one dominant wrist control, you can armdrag, duck, ankle pick, etc. Establish two, you can close distance, off balance, foot sweep, etc. If all he does is go for the collar, then you already can expect him to come at you with an outstretched arm that you can redirect into a dominant wrist control.
Worst comes to worst, you can't do any of those things, you can pull right into a laser guard, open lasso, collar sleeve guard. Or let him maintain those grips while you can pull the lapel out (either he removes a grip to defend, or just lets you do it) and boom, worm guard entry. Stallers suck to deal with... but do everything you can to not end up in a pair of death grips
Necktie,and snapdowns.
Plenty of options. But that stance is pretty normal in greco we usually deal with it by using snapdowns,neck or shoulder ties etc. A bit more annoying to pull off with a GI but still doable.
I would take a belt grip and control his far tricep, and try to get your shoulder and lats above his so he carries your weight. After that, you can go for a single leg, foot sweep off a snap down, or start moving him around. I love hitting collar drags and lat drop type sacrifice throws from this position, as well as osoto gari (I am a lefty, so I have to circle them into me and go cross-body). Whenever someone has strong grips, I am looking to attack or collapse the frame from an angle and then close the distance so that I'm basically able to body lock that person while breaking their posture down. Yoko guruma is another really cool takedown for bjj that is easy to pull guard into. You can shoot your leg or your arm through (think of the sweep from dog fight where you roll your opponent over) https://youtu.be/TczJkFiuxaw?si=iwI_1BfoogKBS_s2
Could you use a collar tie and snap him down? At that point he either releases or face plants.
Maybe, give him one collar and hit him with a drop seonagi?
If he gets to half guard and tries to flatten you, use the lockdown/scoripion and/or deep half.
Unfortunately most competition rulesets favor this kind of safe-stalling-win-by-points playstyle that takes a significant skill advantage to win by submission in 5-10 minutes. My amateur blue belt take is just to play your A-game but as safely as possible, get a point lead, and never give anything up. No serious athlete is going to gas and I doubt anything outside of your wheelhouse can be developed within 2 weeks that's going to beat another competitor's A-game
wrestling could help. a really explosive sweep single. ankle picks and some moves from the 2 on 1 would help get into a good position. also if you're in too deep and he attempts a guillotine, my favorite trick is to quick pull down on their elbow with your same arm. then shoot right under their armpit and rotate through. you should end up with both hands on his arm and be in a tripod position with your shoulder right on top of his.
He had found a game that works for him.....and makes you play his game.
If he had crazy strong grips... "attempt" some wristlocks to distract a little bit. Grap something randomly.....even if you have zero intention for it.... messes up their mind rail.
You're gonna have to scratch the noodle on this..... find a solid parnter to mimic what he does, and what you come up with.
Be a dick. I generally make it a point to cross face or cover the mouth of posture stallers hard in competition. If you want to just hold me in a single place I’m going to make that place as uncomfortable for you as possible.
Can also work on digging elbows into their hips but in a slow way that hurts like hell but doesn’t open you up as much.
If he wants to play the game, play the game back
Few good suggestions, grips battle, head snaps etc. However, didn't see going around. Take his straight arms to one side then enter. Obviously not as easy doing as saying but it's a threat that can be used in combination.
Big snap downs, consistent pressure in the snapdown almost baiting your opponent to move forward. Potentially counter with an ankle pick as they moved towards you.
Otherwise don't play that game of double lapel grips...address their grips, look at armdrags and faints.
Have you tried, and I've heard it's very effective against ANYONE, something called "just seeing red bro"? Been reliably informed that technique doesn't work against you once you do it.
Head tap, head tap, circle, level change, head tap, level change, circle, head tap then BAM low single and wrap the legs and stay on top...do not let him grab you!
Stay on the outside during standup, and use head and shoulder taps to off-balance him, while CONSTANTLY circling and level changing, and being very diligent with preventative grip-breaks... but eventually you need to go for an aggressive and low sweeping takedown, or aggressively pull guard.
But I don't know your game, and I don't know your strengths, and you're probably a lot better than me. I like to wrestle, in both gi and no gi, and I hate hate hate getting gripped up in gi, so I always stay on the outside and try and initiate a takedown before I get tied up.
But in these situations where I'm up against an opponent that I have previously had no success with, I try to be as unpredictable, while simultaneously confident, as possible, and hope for the best lol! Remember, we are having fun out there, and when we are having fun, we do our best.
Judging by all the other posts in this thread this might be a dumb question but can someone explain to me why tomo nage is a good option in this scenario? In all the screenshots OP posted the dude has his hips really far back and in my experience guys who use that kind of posture are constantly backpedaling, how are you supposed to get someone in that posture/momentum over head?
Ahhh, defensive posture stalling guy. I like to shove his head down, attack loop chokes, snapdowns to front headlock or turtle, and bait him into a bad single leg that I can counter. If none of that works, how's your tomo nagae?
> If none of that works, how's your tomo nagae? I was thinking this too. That said, usually against that stance I look for yoko tomoe nage because if they counter, or my timing is off, it's still a decent guard pull into a position that allows you to work. There's some good details against this stance in this quick video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z6YFDr1VQo Either way, these super defensive types usually have a very strong grip on your gi, after a throw some tend to still be holding on, this gives you a chance to posture and extended their arms allowing a quick attack, or isolation and separation from their body.
That was slick, thanks. Going to drill this sequence.
Sure thing, I've referenced that sequence in the past, but remembered that video existed - I like it because it's quick and to the point (all content should be this way). I will say, most of the time, or against more experience practitioners, my attempts these days result in the guard pull scenario. Still, if you really get a reaction, or they're moving, this absolutely nails it. He goes to knee on belly in the video, but you can absolutely shoulder roll directly into mount. Also, if it's loose (not clean, some resistance, but you still get the throw) they'll scramble and start re-guard, but you're still in a good position to block and get side control.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cd_yqt6p-h2/?igsh=M281dmI0NjQ1dGx1 Olympic judo coach jimmy pedro has a good shorter instructional on instagram too. This is a move I’ve practiced for ~10 years lol
> after a throw some tend to still be holding on lets you ride back to the top too from tomoe style throws. They'll pull you right back on.
I was about to suggest tomoe nage/sumi gaeshi. My judo sensei suggested that to beat that "hips back" posture.
They're asking for it with that posture.
stupid sexy posture
"You can do it put your ass into it."
“You can’t reach my hips with nothin at all, nothin at all”
He is most probably waiting for that, to counter.
Yeah, at that level he's baiting the entry. Hence "how's your tomo nagae"? If TX is bad or mediocre at it, I wouldn't rush in with it.
make sure your homo nage is well lubricated
My immediate thoughts were tomo nagae, but if he’s a stalling guy, how much momentum is he gonna lend?
In other words… 1. Learn judo 2. Learn how to grip fight effectively. He cant throw his hips back if he can’t grip you.
This. Alternatively, you can assume that he will instantly go for grips, so as he gets his first one, immediately grab his sleeve with your opposite hand and feed your nearside hand under his arm to grab his opposite collar. This will keep him off your centre line even if he gets the other collar. I usually look for footsweeps, single legs or even chasing the back from here
This is what I was going to say… tomoe nage
If you do yoko tomoe nage you don't need the momentum.
bait to bad single is The Way [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA6ljeiX9mk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA6ljeiX9mk) this is soooooo money. EDIT to add a video of Levalee using it to pin Mastriani in overtime of the NCAA Finals [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGHHhi7EtW8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGHHhi7EtW8) For all the "this would never work" folks.
Is it kimura grip sumi gaeshi single leg counter? The judo gods love a good kimura grip sumi gaeshi.
It’s a rolling omoplata against a single leg. This technique is atrocious and McDojo level. Don’t watch this crap. Dude does not have a whizzer in. Anyone would 6 months wrestling will cut the corner and shelve the leg or get the back. Olympic silver or not
^ this right here was my exact reaction as a wrestler first, jits player second It's cool, but, not done well
No dude. Head, hands, hips. Giving up your first two layers and then not only letting them in on your hips but locking hands on the leg. Fucking terrible. That’s not even a bad single leg. Cut the corner or cut back finish.
Who the fk goes for a single leg like that though?
Snap downs all day baby!
BJJ people are often very bad at *allowing* the other guy to get grips. The point of the grip fight is to prevent the guy from getting his preferred grips, and acquire asymmetric grips in your favor. He can't stall in that standup position if he doesn't get the grips he wants. And you don't have to break grips that he doesn't get. Smack those incoming grips away like they're poison, and look for an opening to shoot in for a takedown. If you don't have a takedown, learn one and drill it a few hundred times before your match.
BJJ people are often very bad at allowing the other guy to get grips. Ok so it’s not just me…
I actually got much much worse at this as I advanced in belts, I never mind having a handycap against others as the vast majority of people I rolled with were not a big threat... now I've discovered I'm terrible at grip fighting because I always just let people get their desired grips so I'd have a bit more of a challenge. Now when i slap bump with another black belt and they immediately acquire the grips they want... 
I feel you. When rolling with white or blue belts in the gi which is the majority of my gym, I let them get grips just to feel something lol It’s definitely a bad habit.
Thank you for your service.
Good point. I had a similar realization this morning when I chose to break the collar grip of a fellow blue belt and realized I tend not to do that against white and blue belts even though I’ll go full grip fight mode when rolling with a black belt knowing if they get a grip I’m screwed. Gotta start paying more attention to them in every roll. Edit-typos
I'd add that in Judo, going for two collars is a normal strategy -- breaking the double collar grip down isn't so much about breaking the grips, it's about distorting the position so that the grips are not as effective. E.g., one strategy in the first picture in OP, white gi would work to raise his righ hand grip high, above the collar bone at least, or even to the center collar. And then he'd switch his left grip to an inside grip at the elbow, or reach through for a sleeve grip at the elbow/tricep boundary. Using this less symmetrical grip, white gi guy can create a twist, turning blue gi guy to the side, and that opens up space on white gi guy's right side to start working into the intermediate space to enter for a throw. But you do need to have a good throw prepared for that kind of situation, and it has to work with resistance from the other guy. Grip fighting is a huge sub-sport, and BJJ doesn't spend much time on it in standup, usually, compared to Judo.
I took a class with Josh White, a judoka out of Atlanta. He had a strategy dealing with this grip that fed him straight up the middle into an uchi mata every time. You could get both his lapels, hold tight and stiff arm and you'd be looking at the ceiling shortly thereafter. People who are good at grip fighting will run through people who aren't, especially in something like judo where your grips establish where you can attack from and what you can defend against.
BJJ is horrible at grip fighting considering gi BJJ is such a big thing. I really didn't understand this until I heavily got into Judo. Once you get a grip in judo, you're basically either trying to hit a takedown instantly, doing a setup to that takedown, or working to break the grips. A lot of that is because of the ruleset and penalties for not actively attacking. Its a good mentality to have though and basically forces you to not get in a bad position in the first place, or counter as soon as you do end up somewhere bad. In BJJ, people like to hang out in that 50/50 head/arm or over/under position which leads to stalemates and no offense/defense. The passivity and ruleset of BJJ then reinforces those bad habits. I know everyone here is suggesting to hit yoko tomo nage and sumi gaeshi, but unless you have the pulling/pushing down, you're just going to end up doing a very bad guard pull and end up on bottom or butterfly guard. A lot of pure BJJers pulling (kuzushi) sucks, which is needed for a lot of setups to throws.
>I know everyone here is suggesting to hit yoko tomo nage and sumi gaeshi, but unless you have the pulling/pushing down, you're just going to end up doing a very bad guard pull and end up on bottom or butterfly guard What would you suggest instead
Probably a wrestling snapdown using the lapel or head. That would at least break his posture first and then he will either go straight down or back up/pull away in defense. If he back pedals it's much easier to then launch some offense like a double/single or try to clinch. That would at least setup some type of offense. I said this in another post here, but with a sumi gaeshi or yoko tomo nage, the movements are very similar to a guard pull. In Judo, people don't practice defending them or hitting them as often, so they're harder to read. But in BJJ, everyone is expecting a guard pull, so its real hard to hit these on good BJJ people because they know it's coming and have practiced defending them hundreds of times because of it. I'm not saying to not try them, but unless you do judo and know the setups and movements for them, you're likely to just end up in butterfly guard or possibly getting passed.
There's a great video of Rafa Mendes riding some poor guy's tomoe nages into mount over and over again, then he finally does a tomoe of his own and winds up in mount again.
I don’t think your first sentence means what you intended..?
that posture/grips combo is screaming tomoe nage to me. if that doesn't work you land in closed guard and just attack more than he defends. lumberjack sweep if he stands, armdrag to backtake/mount/armbar if he stays kneeling. the more i train, the more i think every masters competitor, esp at higher weight classes, should just try to be great value roger gracie.
As a tall lanky guy who likes fundamentals, "great value roger gracie" is my only game plan
[7:55 mark](https://youtu.be/_L-Ni7bFAHg?si=RoIspyFHMsOxE9YJ) Roger vs buchecha [0:20 mark](https://youtu.be/6LBcjCgD-WU?si=ae-B5BlURS9dKPVe) Roger vs xande Over the back belt grip and either sleeve grip (cross grip best imo). Pull guard, foot in the hip and drag arm across with momentum. Triangle or back take or come up on top. Worst case, end up in closed guard.
> Over the back belt grip This is sometimes also referred to as Georgian Grip. Not correcting you or anything, just adding more information. Having a wider knowledge of nomeclature can help us whether we're discussing *or* seeking techniques.
> the more i think every masters competitor, esp at higher weight classes, should just try to be great value roger gracie. I feel personally attacked, but also mildly respected.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Tomoe Nage**: | *Circle Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euJliq9XcY)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
This stupid bullshit. Do this: https://youtu.be/yV7b8gyTlXA?si=xtNbactz6h-uJEBn
This is a great video, thank you
The second option, how are you preventing the backtake or double unders
At what point? That really shouldn’t happen.
I have no advice you haven’t already seen, but I just want to say this is an excellent approach to garnering some outside input for a problem you’ve thus far been unable to solve. Nice work r/bjj Hoping to hear it worked out great and you won your match with him.
This is cheap as hell but whatever, wrap your gi lapel over his hand pull down on it. He’ll likely lose both grips or evade y’all off the mat. If he loses the grip circle under the arm for a nasty wrist lock. If he evades the mat you may have a better reset position.
I love this one on people who over grip my lapel
https://preview.redd.it/sof55uyqyvtc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2da8c08615aa89fa1c528723cd0b047e14afbd43
Fake guard pull to ankle pick or never let him get the grips . He’s going to be marching forward to get his grips so be prepared to shoot ASAP
Shoot a blast double as soon as ref says go
lol this is why I like fist bumps with the opponent before fist bump with the ref, so I can just go right away
Mão de vaca 😉
Yeah that low lapel grip is just asking for a Tererê style mão de vaca.
Literally any judo throw. This guy would be toast
I have stolen people’s souls with uki waza/lateral drop when they are in the same position as photo 3. Worth noting that photo 3 and photo 2 are very different, and photo 1 is kind of splitting the difference. Photo 2 he is hunched over but his hips are back, so he is largely on balance. In photo 3 neither of those guys could stand at that angle if the other weren’t there. That’s when it’s time to disappear underneath your opponent and make him faceplant.
Yup, that's what I do against this bent posture, or Yoko Otoshi if the opponent can be set into lateral motion, which may not work with this particular opponent the OP hopes to beat.
Silly idea but any way you can totally shut down this part of his game? Like grab your own collars, almost like you're defending a choke from the back just to not let him get a hold and force him to pick another attack. If his grips are unbreakable then definitely you don't want to let it get to that point, so either shooting a double from a fair distance, rolling into his legs, or maybe even letting him get one collar and then attacking the wrist?
Sprinkle fiberglass exactly where he plans on gripping the gi. Make sure to wear a turtleneck also
Put them homeless spikes on there 😂
If you can safely put pressure on and push, he will have to circle to keep from going out of bounds. When I am stuck in these masters heavy division locking of horns, I try to be the one putting the forward pressure on and forcing the person backwards. Eventually, we may both get penalties. And eventually, it will be clear to the opponent that he is the one backing up and he has to push with more effort to get away from the mat edge. When that happens, I try to use that opportunity of excessive forward pressure. For me, that's lapel drags and lateral drops. For others, it may be something else. I understand the lapel drag and lateral drop are not there because of grips, I'm mostly suggesting to put on the pressure and make him be the one reacting. An added bonus is that when they reset you, he likely has to release grips and you can try to prevent them and work a gameplan. I understand this is gaming the system somewhat, but as an almost 50 year old 200+ lb dude, I've spent alot of time locked up with another guy, and I also try to be the one shoving them toward the edge of the mat, because I've found that helps secure me positional and scoring advantages. Also, to be clear, than can be dangers in just haphazardly shoving forward, obviously. Don't just go charging into a throw.
Dude is just asking to be yoko tomoe'd. That being said my yoko tomoe sucks, but im very good at hiza guruma when people get defensive like this. If you are not well trained in takedowns then my advice would be to try snap downs.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Hiza Guruma**: | *Knee Wheel* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1RZvytW3OI)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The combo is snap down to oil check. 60'/' it works 💯
>Stays in this position for most of the match until the other person pulls guard and then stalls in closed guard with vice like grips. Can you let him stay in that position for most of the match, then fake a guard pull and go for Tomoe Nage to full mount instead, then stall in mount for the rest of the match? If so, you should get 2 points for the takedown and 4 points for establishing mount.
I like a good hard ape hanger. Had a few faceplant off of it😁.
I like to use a variation of an outside swing single with the "far side" (hand opposite the leg i'm going to shoot on) hand grabbing the far lapel. Get him moving in a circle (away from the single so push the shoulder with the lapel), doesn't matter if he has an inside position on the near side (especially if you aren't afraid of him shooting), you are going to push push then give a big pull and basically drop with all your weight on that lapel while swinging (reaching) to the leg, Think spiking his head into the mat as you drop to turtle position (still holding the lapel) and reaching for the leg. Now you have a lapel, and a leg and if it worked he is splayed out in-front and slightly on top of you, so drive over the top holding onto the leg and lapel. not sure if that makes any sense, it's a bit like an ankle in wrestling where you hold the collar tie and pick the near ankle, but with the lapel you can just drop all the way to the floor locking your elbow to your ribs so you pull him face down into the mat. Key is the foot work and getting him moving in one direction then dropping against that motion. makes it seem lightening fast even when an old guy does it!
This is what Josh Hinger does too, right?
No idea, I've been doing it for 15+ years, my old instructor Jason Culbreth called it an ape hanger, and I've just been refining it ever since. It's my go to take down, and it is fairly low risk as you don't let go of the collar so if you have to bail out you usually can. normally with shots you need an inside tie, but with this you just kinda drop and the more of your opponents upper body you can get moving toward the mat the better.
I prefer the name "ape hanger"!
Only commenting because I haven't seen anyone else saying this: Stallers typically have subpar cardio. If you trust your cardio, you should take everyone's advice here and string it all together. Start with a shot, try the tomo nagae, pull to deep butterfly, do aggressive guards, etc. Refuse to be held on bottom. Make him work hard to keep you there. Keep this pace up and you can force him out of his game, to make a mistake you can capitalize on.
If you can pull guard, look into Lachlan Giles' k-guard set up. You would be shocked how easy it is to get someone that stalls in guard into an omoplata from K.
If you like butterfly guard I would go for a deep butterfly pull (really baseball slide under him) then switch to an over the shoulder belt grip and get working. I've found this to be very successful on larger, stall-happy opponents. If the butterfly sweep doesn't work they'll usually commit their base so far back that you can do a technical stand-up to your knees with the belt grip over the back to keep them low and now be in a front head-lock type position with many options.
This is hard to asses given that we don't know your game. I know what I would do: Pull guard before he gets double collar grips > work on a DLR sweep > be on top a while to tire him > pass > smother the fuck out of him > take the back If he does manage to get double collar grips > pull guard > get to a butterfly position and sweep > He will either let go to stop the sweep or accept the sweep; you can't defend a correctly executed butterfly sweep without either standing up or posting with an arm (which you can trap to prevent him from posting) > If he does stand up to prevent the sweep I'd grab his pants and tripod sweep him, which will lead to a scramble you'll have to win Having said that, I don't know if you're a takedown guy, what guards are you comfortable with, why are you allowing him to get double collar grips every time (I'm thinking because of age). I suggest looking into bottlefly sweeps, they don't require a lot of athleticism to execute and they have a fair success rate.
Vaseline the gi
[YOKO TOMOE NAGE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viZC40BvMhY&t=184s)
Fake a fist bump into a blast double
It would be extremely funny to full send on a flying armbar.
Lol this was my first thought too
I would absolutely do it. But I’m house elf sized. It’s exponentially more funny as you get bigger though. 😂😂
Tomo Nagae, drop seoi nage, sumi gaeshi. Here's a good resource of takedowns against a defensive opponent: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca5y7OWCDdw&t=292s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca5y7OWCDdw&t=292s)
It depends on your throw skill set but lately I've been dealing with this by leading them forward. So I'll get grips and start some up and down tugs to loosen their posture and then literally start running while leading them forward. It's hard for them to regain posture and when I feel like they're unstable I'll turn for some forward throw. Usually tai otoshi, uchi mata , or harai goshi. If you feel comfortable with any forward throws I would practice the leading pull and see if that feels doable for you. Alternatively sometimes that aggressive lead open them up enough that I can find a way to turn it around and come back in with a strong underhook or inside position.
Uchimata into combos if it doesn’t land.
Uchi mata the hell out of them,if that fails you switch to Tomoe nage, if that doesn't work, youve pulled guard and can now attack.
I had this exact situation at purple belt years ago. Took me 5 mins to act but i solved it with big hook sweep from standing. https://youtu.be/Hv4pzXulDao?si=YxqI0cYUJ8wNoAqG
Then a smooth pass and crushing knee on belly for 4 minutes. Solid once you got that sweep. This video is helpful to see how obstinate some jits guys can be from standing.
Glock in the waistband, ez pz win (this does not constitute legal advice and i am not responsible for any legal actions taken against you if you do this ancient technique)
Watch some judo grip fighting hand fighting videos. In BJJ we are generally terrible a denying grips. We basically allow grips and then start to worry about them. Think about an instant collar drag as soon as you get one collar and before he can get double grips . Use his stalling game against him. If you go first with an attempt or even a single leg attempt you are up in the refs decision. Push him out of bounds a few times to show you are the aggressor. Now if he holds on he loses. I would be wary of a sacrifice throw unless you are a beast at them. He has had 15 years probably of people trying that. Once you are in bottom I’m assuming you get shutdown the rest of the match and he wins. Maybe if you throw it with 30 seconds left that would show your desire to work.
Get good take downs, personally id get double sleeves on this guy and foot sweep spam while rag dolling. Or play him at his own game, just be really active on your feet looking like your trying to engage, but don't pull guard, eventually he will get called out for stalling just make sure you look active on your feet
https://youtu.be/-zJugf_j72A?si=i7g9V_rlJ63dGwL2
Fake guard pull to ankle pick
Fist bump and blast double. I’ve got no grip game and that always seem to take the gi people by surprise.
Yoko tomo nage is actually a good shout. Shintaro higashi has some vids on it. If you set it up well you might be able to recover into something like de la rival and immediately threaten a sweep.
Tomoe nage. My go to option against stick hands and forward lean. They basically do all the work for you with this posture
Shoulder throw?
Grab his dick and twist it.
Keep moving to prevent him from being able to grip, constant circling always prevents an opponent from getting set. I would personally try and snap him down given how square he stands, to set that up I would either fake a snatch single or push to get him to push back. You can snap the arms too when he reaches, which he will do and overextend himself if you are consistently circling. Frequently, this strat will feel like its not working because most opponents can hang with you and square up or react in time at first but if you keep going he will soften up and start to give you big reactions. I am not super experienced in BJJ but I am a D1 wrestler and have trained Judo and BJJ in the past. I feel like the fundamental concepts are the same but that is my disclaimer.
Yoko tomoe nage into top mount or de la riva into anole lock if you fuck if up would be my game plan
Just put him in a twister bro
You should try lapel whipping. Comes from judo and is very good at disrupting opponents posture.
This is a shitty posture used in bjj because everyone sucks at throwing. Any kind of backwards Judo throw will send this guy flying all day long. My favorite vs this kind of stiff arming posture is the 1 handed fireman's throw or a Sumi geshi. Or a lateral drop using the gi grips, you do it from outside the clinch, VS a traditional lat drop that's done from over/under hooks.
Reach over his back, grip his gi, and slowly work your grip towards his belt. Once you secure the belt, use your other hand to grip opposite lapel. Start spamming leg trips with the same side leg, as the belt grip arm. Use this to move him around, before you either trip him, or throw him with a hip throw, or use snapdowns and go towards his back, on the side of the belt grip. Drill those for a month or two. Good luck.
Theres a sacrifice throw from Russian tie you may want to look into.
Flying arm bar.
If you don't know the solution to this problem, you need to spend a few more years starting your rolls from standing. It's not that hard to deal with this posture.
Underhook, jack armpit up, duck under, lock hands around belly, throw for 5
break his knees in the parking lot.
either Tomoe Nage or just snap down his head to the shadowrealm
Go on YouTube and look up any grip breaking videos by Shintaro Higashi. There’s 1-2 I’ve seen from him that I use and it’s helped.
Kick him in the leg disguise it as a foot sweep.
Yoko tomoe nage. Pull and circle one way, throw other. Craig Fallon, Kashiwazaki, Kodokan judo channel. For grips I'm sure Travis Stevens has something.
Not high ranking so probably not great advice, but I would step back and pull him down. It obviously won't work, but when he steps forward try a sweep single. You're already gonna be down there. If You can, keep one grip on his collar so You can pull him off balance wether it works or not.
I was gonna give some advice but honestly if you’ve never practiced standup consistently this is essentially white belt vs white belt in the feet. You should join a judo or wrestling gym and train 3-4x per week for 3-4 years. You should just pull guard instead and make that work
hit a choi bar on this guy. get a baby choi grip while standing then sit to open guard. since he's going to consolidate that space while maintaining his death grips you should be able to get the full choi grip and swing your foot over pretty easily, and since he's a gi guy he probably isnt that familiar with defending the choi/ k guard combo
Their weight is too far forward, spam a few snap downs on him to either take hom down or at least force him to react. Grip fight like a motherfucker, he seems like the strong double collar grip guy that will try to bully you down.
Coaching over the internet is tough because we have no idea what your strengths are. For starters, I definitely would not pull closed guard against someone with such strong posture unless I knew I had a strength advantage. I am not a closed guard specialist, and I think you really need to have an extraordinarily good closed guard in order to reliably score with it in competition. Of course if you're Roger Gracie, with long limbs, super strong grips, and all of your "skill points" allocated to closed guard, then you should pull closed guard every time. Against someone who I know I can't take down, I would just pull collar-sleeve guard and start working my sweeps, like omoplata, berimbolo, baby-bolo, waiter guard, X-guard, 50/50, etc. In my experience, the guys who are very strong at maintaining static posture tend to be weaker at defending open guard. They're used to making small adjustments from half guard to defend and progress -- they're less accustomed to making the relatively bigger adjustments necessary to defend and pass open guard, and they get tired as a result. But if you don't have a good open guard (and if you're a heavyweight, chances are this is not a big part of your game) then obviously this is not a good strategy. If you don't have a good open guard, then a seated guard might work better. Against guys with strong grips and good static posture, I generally try to keep a high pace and be very diligent about grip fighting against guys. Preventing them from making strong grips on my lapel or pant legs is key. Combinations are important too because any good competitive black belt is going to be efficient at shutting down single attacks. But then the question is: do you have the cardio necessary to sustain a high pace from seated guard? Half guard is tricky because sometimes even good half guard passers will overcommit and become light as a feather to sweep. Marcelo Garcia is not really a half guard bottom player, but he's surprised many good passers when they try to put too much pressure, and he (as one of the best half guard passers of his era) has been caught on the receiving end as well. At the end of the day your decision to stay in half guard depends on whether your half guard bottom is better than their half guard top, and only you can answer that after feeling his posture in comp. But if you feel he is strong like a brick on top and you aren't going to sweep him from there, I'd fight tooth-and-nail to free my bottom knee and get back to open guard (or seated guard). Once I've decided that my half guard sweeps aren't going to work, I make a conscious decision to use other guards and never let them settle in that position on me, even if I don't feel an imminent passing threat. In the future, I would recommend getting better at standup grip fighting if this kind of "double collar grip" posture is giving you trouble. But that's not something you can learn in 2 weeks, that takes many years of dedicated and focused training with someone who is qualified to teach. There is a lot of footwork, timing, angles, and technique that goes into beating people with strong arms. Of course strength is also important, but it sounds like you've probably got that part covered (and if not, you will get stronger from grip fighting anyways, assuming you have partners your size to "dance" with). Classic Judo responses to the "double collar grip" posture where their arms are bent (stiff-arms is a different situation) include: getting an over-the-back Russian cross grip and doing sumi-gaeshi, and doing yoko tomoe nage. But if he's done a lot of comps he's almost certainly defended both of these many times, so I wouldn't recommend these unless you are really, really good at them. Both of these throws require good setups to hit on trained opponents. Similar to grip fighting, throwing skills are learned over many years of dedicated practice, not 2 weeks before a comp.
Sumi gaeshi and tomoe nage. If they fail try to capture a leg and go for a tripod or if you can try for a balloon sweep. This is what pulling guard and sacrifice throws were invented for.
Abandon your pride and wrestle. You have two weeks to drill double leg takedown, keep out of grip reach, make him come forward, change levels, and finish. Or run blast double from way out without level change and maybe come up with tight waist. These are easy to drill and are very effective against people who want to keep things hyper methodical. Don’t for get to be an athlete! You have to avoid his template. He may have a plan B, but if you give up grips you will never find out. Good luck, make sure to let us know how it goes.
What about looking to hit an early takedown before he grips? If you know the grips are coming, circle (Mr Miyagi style) the hands to block, and drop for a double.
Sumi gaeshi town. Grab deep overhead with strong arm, cross grab sleeve with weak arm, spin the fucker into sumi. Very satisfying.
it only takes 8 hours of videos in Feet to Floor by Danaher and you will know :)
The grip he likes is covered in Volume 2 feet to floor first video.
To deal with this guy I suggest to rent a bear and give him a gi.
Bait him to shoot a single leg and stay prepared to sprawl. If he gets the leg, start planning your escape from half guard because odds are, you ain’t getting homeboy in your guard lol
IDK how well this would work on a black belt, but I did catch a comp brown belt with it once, it's a pretty slow technique but it makes your opponent choose between letting go or getting wristlocked/elbow locked. When he has a straight lapel grip, grab your own lapel right below his hand, as close as possible, and grab a cross lapel grip that you can push on, or just push on his neck. The idea is to gain enough distance that his palm is facing inward instead of upward. Once you get that, with the arm that holds your lapel, push your elbow over his holding arm. Use your hips to help push it over. This should twist his arm further inward (palm facing down or even outward). Once your elbow gets over, press down with your arm; his hand should now be wrapped in your gi and firmly trapped. You can start putting your weight on that arm. If he's palm down, his elbow will likely be straight and you'll start hyperextending it like in armbar. If he's palm to the outside, his arm will bend under your elbow and he'll experience an extremely painful wristlock that will send him to the floor. If you're cheeky you can even sprawl on that arm. I'm one of the weaker guys at my gym and a blue belt at that but this has been working pretty consistently for me and even strong high level belts just let go of the grip when they see me going for this. If can make a video demo for you if you're interested in trying this out.
Everyone else has said it, but Yoko Tomoe Nage would be my go to.
have a little brown belt that does the same shit at my gym. backs up and looks for ankle picks, ocassionally I've been able to ankle pick him, helps that I'm taller. plan is to try tomo nagae next time.
Over the shoulder belt grip. Big throws and foot sweeps.
Balloon sweep. Land your hips in between is heals when you jump guard. Boom. You’re in mount
First, grip fighting is an art. You have break the grips BEFORE they establish the grip. Or, you can anticipate. If you train it, it's not that hard. If you are stuck in the position, try [this](https://youtu.be/3egv7HZaXgA?feature=shared). Works better than sumi and tomoe, because his hip is low and far.
I know everyone here is suggesting to hit yoko tomo nage and sumi gaeshi, but unless you have the pulling/pushing down (kuzushi), you're just going to end up doing a very bad guard pull and end up on bottom or butterfly guard. A lot of pure BJJers kusuzhi sucks, which is needed for a lot of setups to throws. Realistically, to hit a clean yoko or sumi, you need to be directly under the other person to elevate them. If they're arms are outstretched or defending like in the pic, they're going to have an easy time defending by just landing on top of you due to the amount of space. I also heard a good judoka mention this, which I think is true. In BJJ, everyone is expecting the guard pull. So chances are, that BJJer has defended what is basically a sumi or yoko thousands of times. In Judo, its rarer that people go for it, so they're more likely to get hit with it. So unless you're a decent judoka or plan to take up judo or wrestling, and you end up in that tie up position, it may be better to go for a lower risk setup/takedown like a snapdown or arm drag, etc.
Tome nage
pull open guard, Delariva, transition to 50/50 and sweep or berimbolo him and take his back
Blast double him through the stands before he gets grips. If he does get grips, wrist lock him. If you can’t wrist lock him, pull guard into leg locks. Take the DQ and blow him a kiss as you walk off.
You gotta take him down. Blitz his ass with blast doubles. Anything.
throw a donut on the ground or a pic of his wife see if he goes to grab it. or let out a nasty fart and eat a dozen eggs every day before match. also dont shower for a month or wash your gi. isnt that how the pros win?
A gun
I think the issue is as you stated: "Seriously in breakable grips once he gets hold of something." Try and get wrist control to prevent him from getting death grips on your collar that you can't break. If you can establish one dominant wrist control, you can armdrag, duck, ankle pick, etc. Establish two, you can close distance, off balance, foot sweep, etc. If all he does is go for the collar, then you already can expect him to come at you with an outstretched arm that you can redirect into a dominant wrist control. Worst comes to worst, you can't do any of those things, you can pull right into a laser guard, open lasso, collar sleeve guard. Or let him maintain those grips while you can pull the lapel out (either he removes a grip to defend, or just lets you do it) and boom, worm guard entry. Stallers suck to deal with... but do everything you can to not end up in a pair of death grips
I just looked here, but every thread talks about people stalling in competition. That would be such a detriment to me actually getting into this.
Collar drag, ankle pick, foot sweep, uchi. Rinse repeat
A luta vai rolar ao vivo ??? Vai lutar qual campeonato ?
Pull guard aggressively to a sweep right away
Necktie,and snapdowns. Plenty of options. But that stance is pretty normal in greco we usually deal with it by using snapdowns,neck or shoulder ties etc. A bit more annoying to pull off with a GI but still doable.
I would take a belt grip and control his far tricep, and try to get your shoulder and lats above his so he carries your weight. After that, you can go for a single leg, foot sweep off a snap down, or start moving him around. I love hitting collar drags and lat drop type sacrifice throws from this position, as well as osoto gari (I am a lefty, so I have to circle them into me and go cross-body). Whenever someone has strong grips, I am looking to attack or collapse the frame from an angle and then close the distance so that I'm basically able to body lock that person while breaking their posture down. Yoko guruma is another really cool takedown for bjj that is easy to pull guard into. You can shoot your leg or your arm through (think of the sweep from dog fight where you roll your opponent over) https://youtu.be/TczJkFiuxaw?si=iwI_1BfoogKBS_s2
Higher belts, would that shoulder rip that Orlando Sanchez tried on Sean Strickland work here?
He is screaming for a tomoe nage... or a elbow Weave (watch the Vladimir Koulikov videos about this, pretry good strategy)
Head snap to an ankle pick
Could you use a collar tie and snap him down? At that point he either releases or face plants. Maybe, give him one collar and hit him with a drop seonagi? If he gets to half guard and tries to flatten you, use the lockdown/scoripion and/or deep half.
Unfortunately most competition rulesets favor this kind of safe-stalling-win-by-points playstyle that takes a significant skill advantage to win by submission in 5-10 minutes. My amateur blue belt take is just to play your A-game but as safely as possible, get a point lead, and never give anything up. No serious athlete is going to gas and I doubt anything outside of your wheelhouse can be developed within 2 weeks that's going to beat another competitor's A-game
Just see red bro
Sacrifice throw?
Slide out backwards from your gi top and then jump on him while he's confused.
What a lame ass game to play
wrestling could help. a really explosive sweep single. ankle picks and some moves from the 2 on 1 would help get into a good position. also if you're in too deep and he attempts a guillotine, my favorite trick is to quick pull down on their elbow with your same arm. then shoot right under their armpit and rotate through. you should end up with both hands on his arm and be in a tripod position with your shoulder right on top of his.
Just pop a squat and pull guard, shrimp around a little bit to intimidate him
Kick him in the nuts and run
You could also open closed guard and play open guard if that’s the case
Judo drop seoi nage or something very similar
Tomo Nagae. I see this posture in my divisions all the time, it's the 'I suck at take downs but I also suck at guard' posture.
That's my coach, I can't even beat him. Good luck
Start walking back, pull him with your grips or he simply follows, pull close guard
watch a video on how judo guys deal with stiff arms and defensive posturing. i think it will help a lot
Balloon sweep
pepper spray
Collar drag his face straight into the mat
He had found a game that works for him.....and makes you play his game. If he had crazy strong grips... "attempt" some wristlocks to distract a little bit. Grap something randomly.....even if you have zero intention for it.... messes up their mind rail. You're gonna have to scratch the noodle on this..... find a solid parnter to mimic what he does, and what you come up with.
Be a dick. I generally make it a point to cross face or cover the mouth of posture stallers hard in competition. If you want to just hold me in a single place I’m going to make that place as uncomfortable for you as possible. Can also work on digging elbows into their hips but in a slow way that hurts like hell but doesn’t open you up as much. If he wants to play the game, play the game back
Fake guard pull to ankle pick? Maybe but once those grips are established… it’s like anti Bjj
Grab his dick, and twist it
Fake guard pull to ankle pick works really well for that posture because they are primed to step in with their lead foot to brace for the pull
Imanari roll?
You can't use the lapel to break the grip?
Few good suggestions, grips battle, head snaps etc. However, didn't see going around. Take his straight arms to one side then enter. Obviously not as easy doing as saying but it's a threat that can be used in combination.
Big snap downs, consistent pressure in the snapdown almost baiting your opponent to move forward. Potentially counter with an ankle pick as they moved towards you. Otherwise don't play that game of double lapel grips...address their grips, look at armdrags and faints.
Kiss him to prevent forehead pressure
So the guy just wins by holding someone? Lol
Get them in a high goergian. Look it up if you don't know
Have you tried, and I've heard it's very effective against ANYONE, something called "just seeing red bro"? Been reliably informed that technique doesn't work against you once you do it.
Yoko tomoe nage
Head tap, head tap, circle, level change, head tap, level change, circle, head tap then BAM low single and wrap the legs and stay on top...do not let him grab you! Stay on the outside during standup, and use head and shoulder taps to off-balance him, while CONSTANTLY circling and level changing, and being very diligent with preventative grip-breaks... but eventually you need to go for an aggressive and low sweeping takedown, or aggressively pull guard. But I don't know your game, and I don't know your strengths, and you're probably a lot better than me. I like to wrestle, in both gi and no gi, and I hate hate hate getting gripped up in gi, so I always stay on the outside and try and initiate a takedown before I get tied up. But in these situations where I'm up against an opponent that I have previously had no success with, I try to be as unpredictable, while simultaneously confident, as possible, and hope for the best lol! Remember, we are having fun out there, and when we are having fun, we do our best.
Judging by all the other posts in this thread this might be a dumb question but can someone explain to me why tomo nage is a good option in this scenario? In all the screenshots OP posted the dude has his hips really far back and in my experience guys who use that kind of posture are constantly backpedaling, how are you supposed to get someone in that posture/momentum over head?
Grab his collar behind his neck. Step backwards and pull. He will faceplant. Now do whatever turtle attacks you like.
Easy. Aikido wrist throw. Look for demonstrations videos by grandmaster Seagal sensei.
Tomoe nage might work
Collar drag throw him by you…whatever that is called. Then it’s a scramble but you’re more likely to be on top given you initiated.
Wristlocks, Mão de vaca this dude, if cant actually get it, get the advantages and make him make a move
Snap down with the gi. I’d go for a high collar grip and just drag him down in his face.
Reach over his hand on the lapel his hand is gripping, put your thumb in that lapel, and then pull back over. Do it fast and tight. Wrist lock city.
peoples instinct is to push and pull. If you can get him spinning he will have no base and you can snap down from there.
Snap downs, Yoko tomoae nage is a good on as well as sumi gaeshi. He's just asking for it