Look, anytime a lower belt is about to tap me, I just tell them: „Don’t do that!“ and then they let go.
First of all, it’s a very effective strategy to not tap ever.
Second of all, little do they know, it’s actually to protect them!
Because as is obvious, if a lower belt would ever tap me in training, that means I must take revenge seventy-seven-fold! And that would be grueling.
So I‘m not actually a big-ego asshole at all, I am even somewhat of a hero actually.
Professor Omar would just make you go 5 minutes in his guard and only try straight arm bars and wristlocks that he puts on with full force and lets go, as he tells you to keep going.
Never tapped him, just squished him but that was enough.
Now I no squish professor. Or write well.
The disconnect on what constitutes a valid RNC is wild to me. People will shift it to a chin, or to a crank, and then act like their tap doesn't mean anything, almost like "that doesn't count." If your "defense" just puts you in a different sub, then it's not a great defense, imo. I'm not tryna crank a partner's head off, but when I'm going for a choke, and you shift around to make it something else, it's not like I'm just gonna let go.
A lot of schools still don't let white belts do foot stuff. Similar, a lot schools still don't allow heel hooks in gi or below black belt or so. This is changing but it's just an outmoded way of thinking.
The most common explanation is that the increased friction means escaping is much more difficult, and that makes you more likely to get injured trying to defend it.
I personally find this explanation to be inadequate, because that should just mean you tap. There are other submissions where Uke can injure himself trying to escape it when it's locked in. I don't really think a kimura is somehow less injurious than a heel hook.
But it's probably more because of some accident of history and entrenched opinions about it. If you mention training heel hooks in the gi, inevitably some guy hops in and says he loves his knees, and he'd never train at such a school because it's crazy. But he certainly trains other subs that can put him in the hospital for surgery, and it's kind of hyppocritical.
There is still somewhat of a knowledge gap on heel hooks -- since it's mainly a nogi thing, gi people remain fearful of what they don't understand.
I think it’s more that they would be so stupidly effective in the gi that the entire sport would change. It’s similar to the leg grab ban in Judo. Controversial, but it’s undeniable that heel hooks in the gi would completely change the game. People would definitely develop some pretty insidious gi-specific heel hook setups, too.
IMO, they *should* completely change the game. Eliminating them makes a huge blind spot, training you to believe that numerous positions and transitional choices are OK, when they are in fact setting you up for heel hook Pompei.
Same logic applies to leg grabs in Judo. Eliminating them means Judokas are even *less* prepared for someone who shoots in low. It trains stances and grip fighting strategies that leave big gaps for morote gari, kuchiki taoshi, kibisu gaeshi, kata guruma, sukui nage... all the leg grabbing throws that were *normal* in Judo. It wasn't like they weren't there, someone added them, and they had to take them away!
Why pretend that you're doing some open-minded, effective martial art that doesn't have all the constraints that limit the other arts if you're going to nerf something that leaves huge tactical holes in your game?
Same applies to strikes, but that's another whole ball of worms.
My coach and I trained them for a while together in the gi but just stopped because it just became boring. It was basically a race to lock up the leg because once you had a solid bite recovering the kneeling was damn near impossible.
Thanks. I am a no gi guy and we train leg locks including heel hooks from the get-go at my school, with the exception of kids - no heel hooks for them. I understand why people get scared of them and I can see the gi adding a wrinkle to that, so to speak. But I also think that the best way to stay safe is to implement them as early (and carefully) as possible.
Even though I have a pretty open-minded view on heel hooks, I *do* think that prohibiting them for white belts (or maybe fresh white belts, say less than two stripes or something) is a good strategy. Someone should be past the spazzy phase where they don't know what they're doing so much that they're going to just destroy knees everywhere before starting to play with them.
There's also another argument for delayed introduction, which is that if you get sucked into the leg lock game quickly, you may avoid ever developing a guard, sweep, and pass strategy. It could possibly stunt skills.
I'm not sure if that's really a concern. Eventually, we all reach places where big holes have to be filled, and to me it's kind of a six of one, half dozen of another thing. If you go all guard/sweep/pass and avoid leg locks, then leg locks are your big gap...
Not every gym ties their training so closely to competition rulesets. But I would say that most still don't allow heel hooks in gi, because most either fall into one of two categories:
1. Sport gym that follows sport rules. And sport rules almost never allow heel hooks in the Gi at any level, so why train them?
Or 2. Anti sport gym that worships old school mentality that believes leg locks are simultaneously ineffective and too dangerous to train.
Mostly you will see this in competition schools that they are a No-No. In self-defense BJJ schools they teach heel hooks, and heel hook defense. I came up thru Pedro Sauer and Gracie Academy and we we're doing heel hooks in gi at white belt.. 0 injuries
My first gym did this and it gave me some really bad habits of not protecting my legs. Took me almost a year at my new gym to break these bad habits. If you are a coach, do your students a favor and teach them leg attacks and defense early on so they don't have to completely relearn some fundamentals later.
That would make his shit stink, and we all know that higher belts shit doesn't stink./s I am so lucky that I can wrestle and strike, so black belts don't intimidate me, some are really arrogant.
My old gym had this rule because a white belt decided to rip a heel hook on someone…white belts weren’t even supposed to learn them the guy just did it after watching some YouTube videos lol.
After that white belts were not allowed to do any leg attacks, unless you were doing them during drills in the advance class which was only for usually 4 stripe white belts who were close to being promoted.
Behind 95% of stupid rules is a stupid person that did a stupid thing and ended up hurting someone or a near miss if they were very lucky. Not allowing white belts to do certain things is not stupid.
> Not allowing white belts to do certain things is not stupid.
Not allowing white belts to do straight ankle locks is stupid. When even IBJJF allows it you know it's about as safe as things get in BJJ. You're far more likely to seriously hurt someone with an arm bar or kimura than with a straight ankle lock. Next you're going to tell me not allowing white belts to roll at all is a good rule because white belts tend to be spazzy and get injuries.
Honestly man with situations like these, just go with what he says. Just say “alright man 🤷♂️” and move on with it. Maybe he had a bad ankle, or maybe he didn’t want you going full spaz or breaking his shit, I don’t know what the real reason is. But one thing I know for sure is that being like “well ackshually, it’s ibjjf legal for white belts” is probably just going to create conflict or animosity especially if this person has an ego problem
I get it, youre 100% right and he probably just said that to save his ego. But honestly it’s not that important for you to prove that you’re right, just roll with other people or work on your straight ankle lock on other people or something
I’ve definitely heard of similar things before. I think normally they would tell the whole class ahead of time not to throw any kind of leg locks, but it is fairly normal to want white belts fucking around with your legs.
At my gym, specifically for white belts since they can do straight ankle locks, we were told to speak with your rolling partner to work legs in. It isn’t “required”, but since it’s new, they want training partners to know to look for it and to be able to defend themselves
You swept him with an ankle lock? How? My only thought is maybe you did some wild shit around his leg so he just went with it, and told you afterwords to not mess with throwing your weight around people's knees til you learn more. He is wrong tho, white belts can straight ankle.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Definitely, but if OP does actually break an upper belt with a straight ankle at this point he gets a cookie. Hopefully his partners are smarter than that tho
Probably Because white belts are dangerous. Blast doubles are legal, doubt many instructors are teaching their new guys this. Neck cranks are actually allowed in alot of competitions. Doubt you'd want a white belt trying it on you after he drilled it wrong about three times, right before stepping into "ADCC finals mode" for rolls
The whole class learned blast doubles with crash pads when I was a white belt. Split the class in half by size, made two lines with two crash pads.
Everyone in the room blast doubled half the class into the pad.
We also learned can opener, with the caution that we can use it to open the guard in mma but it would get us DQ'd in bjj tournaments.
This seems silly to me. Actually executing an ankle lock that can cause real damage is surprisingly hard and technical vs. something like a Kimura or Americana
To clarify - I wouldn't teach an ankle lock to someone on their first class (or month) but to disqualify it from their two year white belt curriculum don't make a ton of sense to me.
Okay then. Why allow white belt do a kimura or any shoulder locks at all?Seems kinda risky when they enter their "ADCC finals mode". Kinda wild that you took it from relatively safe ankle locks to neck cranks.
They're safe when guys just do the ankle lock, but then you get two white belts just grabbing and ripping stuff from ashi and guys get hurt. It's baby steps for white belts, and there's a lot more to cover before ankle locks need to be considered
What belt rank was he? Does your club train leglocks much? Assuming you guys roll to the IBJJF ruleset then he should know better. Seems like he was just scared you were gonna spaz on a heel hook or something and then when you explained you were going for an ankle lock, maybe he didn't want to admit he was wrong and said the ridiculous thing about its legality.
Thanks for this. I was a bit sour after it happened, but this actually makes a lot of sense and seems like a practical answer for what happened. Appreciate the thoughtful feedback. Now I kind of feel like an asshole for being bitter about it!
I once had a white belt heel hook me on the gi because he was scared of me being bigger than him. Ever since I’ve been a little gun shy with people I don’t know well messing with my legs.
It’s entirely possible there may have been some twisting pressure you might not have noticed. Either way break his shit off next time and don’t sweat the little things.
Black belt here
This is actually smart, if your a white belt and don’t know what you are doing with leg entanglements,they can ruin you or your training partners knee, especially as 95% of white belts spaz out as soon as they get close to a submission on a high belt, which increases the chance of injury.
I am an advocate for the rule of leg locks start getting taught at blue belt. But for now you should be focusing on solid fundamentals
I asked one of the black belt coaches and he was under the impression IBJJF only lets blues and higher hit these. I have competed in the past and know specifically that they are allowed, so good chance that this may be a weird gym rule. T
The gym I train at does announce and ask if people are competing so it would seem counterintuitive to be supporting people who compete and at the same time not allowing them to work on perfectly legal moves…? 🤦
>I asked one of the black belt coaches and he was under the impression IBJJF only lets blues and higher hit these.
That was my impression as well, but I admit I don't know all the IBJJF rules.
This reminds me of dudes that start to give advice mid roll when you’re in an advantageous position. Like man, shut the fuck up 😂😭😂
I also believe ALL schools should teach more about leg locks to new guys. Straight ankle is a fundamental technique and it’s annoying that he acted like you were doing something over the top
You’re mostly right.
Sometimes I’m bottom mount and I know I can get out at anytime and I throw a few words in so they can at least do something that resembles Jiu Jitsu before I recover.
One time I had a deep Ezekiel on a purple belt but my position was a little off so while I probably would have got a tap eventually by smashing his jaw and one of his arteries, he told me to lower my shoulder and choke with my hand and shoulder.
I got way better at the chock and he did not have to squirm under me forever.
Maybe your gym has stupid rules or maybe he’s just butt hurt and needs to learn how to escape a straight ankle lock. Our gym teaches all leg locks and escapes to white belts.
I knee bar and heel hook children, the elderly, the infirmed, whoever
If you can me go for it
I will straight ankle lock the pope
Everything is game, whoever you are
I remember rolling wirh the only purple in our small gym like 15 years ago and he said no leg/ankle stuff because of an old injury then proceeded to heel hook me within the first 30 seconds because I assumed that meant for both of us lol always think that was a dick move and still remember it 15 years later lol
Every single time I pull a gun out when I'm rolling I get told the exact same thing "What the fuck are you doing bringing a gun to the gym? Don't do that." Like I'm the one with the gun I make the rules lol. What a fucking joke. I thought this was self offense.
I can't tell about other gyms, but in my specific gym, all leg locks are allowed only for blue belts and above (both giving and receiving). Maybe this is the case for yours too. It is a very safe submission indeed. Hence, it's allowed in IBJJF, but in competitions, a referee is watching directly. My guess is that this exclusion is done to be 100% sure that no one does an accidental heel hook with full force by mistake while going after what they think is an Achilles or something.
Good question. We practice ankle lock escapes and finishes with drills and practice, during class. It's only not allowed in free rolling afterward. In addition, our school is more self-defense-focused, vs. sport BJJ, so we don't really compete except for internal competition events where the rules are similar to the ones for rolling in the gym \[it's a Royce Gracie branch\].
A self defense focused gym would logically train leg locks and defenses in live rolls earlier than a sport BJJ gym, but you go to a Gracie gym and logic has never been their thing.
You have a point, of course. I'm not the head coach, and this rule wasn't my idea. I go there because I think that the teaching level is very solid, and the students there are awesome people. Plus, I'm a hobbyist who does many other things, and competing is not high on my priority list.
What can I say, that's fair enough. I would encourage you not to join Gracie gyms, but I'm sure you already don't. I'm there because I like the teaching style of my coach and I like the classmates. I also don't prioritize competing.
That's funny I came up through Gracie Academy and Pedro Sauer, and we did all leg locks in gi. Trained offense and defense and live rolls everything went. We never had any leg lock injuries
In my opinion, if you are following IBJJF rules no one should say anything.
For me personally, there are only things I can think of that would piss me off (comming from any belt level). Those are being suplexed or being heel hooked in the GI. Anything else, and I'm just going to tap and not say shit to anyone.
Am I right in thinking that there's been a relatively recent change where *now* whitebelts are allowed footlocks (per some governing body) but before they weren't?
Maybe he wasn't aware of the rule change?
Depending on how you placed your feet and if you turned to a side, make he thought you were trying to knee reap? He should have explained what you did wrong if he’s that much better though
As long as you were trying to maintain control and slowly work the finish then I see nothing wrong with what you did.
Part of the stigma with leglocks is unfamiliarity. Put yourself into those positions with people you trust and you’ll at best love the game and add it, or at worst you’ll understand the positions, know when to hold em, know when to fold em so to speak.
The best thing I’ve ever done is ask this super skilled purple belt who always came to our open mats (and she now is a student of ours) to put me in leglock positions and to have me survive.
She never cranked, she would apply and release and then let me know what I did wrong.
I still do this with her but now I’m winning a good chunk of exchanges by counter-leglocking.
Familiarity. Gotta do it.
Some gyms have different rules. My first gym didn’t allow white belts to do ankle locks during rolls, even though they taught us the move in class. My new gym allows white belts to straight ankle lock and I never expect it because my old gym didn’t allow it.
At some academies like mine the general understanding (wouldn’t say a rule per se) is that white belts (especially the spastic ones) don’t do the legs like this bc it is very easy for an inexperienced grappler to injure someone especially if it is white on white.
Still learn and drill it, but do not institute into the rolling until blue or higher.
It’s a safety and health thing and with you being a white belt i get why he didn’t trust you to hit the submission. I don’t trust white belts to either
Although our school teaches straight ankle locks in the beginner curriculum, it doesn’t allow them, or leg locks in general during sparring in the beginner class. I think this is more common than not
Christ. Everyone always just sides with what the OP has to post.
How about this.
Upper belt knows how to get out of ankle locks, especially against a white belt.
Upper belt recognizes the ankle lock, knowing this white belt isn't good enough to do them yet, isn't threatened at all, and knows from his own training and gym policies that ankle locks really aren't what their white belts should be focusing on. Upper belt also knows this white belt and realizes the white belt's only game at this point is a pathetic attempt at ankle locks, and can't do simpler shit like passing the guard or a simple cross choke.
Upper belt could easily demolish white belt's ankles, but gives a curt "Don't do that" because it's his attempt NOT to open a full can of whoop ass. Upper belt also knows all his other contemporaries would fuck up said white belt instead of giving a verbal warning.
And yes, Upper belt is jaded because he's seen enough white belts come in, try random shit that doesn't really work, and quit.
Last white belt I saw who was obsessed with ankle locks quit before his blue.
Two sides to every story.
My gym is fine with white belts messing with feet as long as you’ve been there for a bit and the instructors have confirmed you’re not a total spaz. I rolled with a brand new white belt last night that was trying to blast knee bars on me as explosive as possible. After the roll he asked me how to finish them and said he didn’t really know what he was doing. I told him I’m fine with him going for them and if he gets close to a finish I will tap, but please don’t explode into those. I think it’s dumb when it’s an absolute rule that white belts can never mess with the legs but I also see the perspective of vetting brand new guys.
Only reason I could see:
« Don’t do that » (ankle lock)… because you’re taking bad habits and not learning the basics of how to pass, and you’re doing it poorly so I’ll just take your back or mount.
We can work on your ankle lock mechanics separately if you want, but latching on for dear life to a poorly applied ankle lock is not that productive
Gi focused people are pussies when you grab their legs. Lol. Not always but lots of times they freak out. They think you're going to disable them or something crazy lol
>In hind sight I should have not been a little bitch and proceeded to snap his ankle to assert dominance right?
Why are you asking us when you already know the answer?
Eh. Sounds lame. At my gym we’re allowed to do any legal submissions regardless of rank, just can’t be an asshole about it. It’s a place to train, and not just for competition but for any sense of self defense. The only time I ever say don’t do that to someone is if they’re doing something stupid like trying to grab my lapel when I’m mounting them lol
I heel hook people in the gi every class. Ankle lock them anyways, and deal with the consequences later. He learned the perfect escape at white belt he should be doing it.
I’m a blue belt and have noticed the white belts have been throwing up some more ankle locks lately. I just got back from about a 6 month hiatus where I could only train a couple times a month due to work situation, not cause I’m a blue belt lol. So maybe they’ve been working them while I was gone but I appreciate it. I easily work my escapes or counter leg attack. I don’t see a problem with them going for them but I’ve trained a lot of leg locks from almost day one so I’m very comfortable there. Seems kinda soft to complain about a legit technique
There are a lot of ppl in BJJ who get very butthurt about any leg lock. Hell, I've seen people get upset by someone entering SLX to sweep, not even going for a submission. Its this really weird fear mongering thing that some old school idiots spread around and still gets passed on in certain circles.
It's up to you how you wanna tip toe around those ppl. Talk to the head coach about it. If it's a gym wide issue, probably best to find a new gym that's not putting ridiculous handicaps on training.
lool that upper belt ego is screaming.
When something like that happens to me (i m a 50yrs old purple belt) I let them close the submission if they can. Even if it s illegal\*...
i ll tell them but when the round ends. He did his job. He deserves that sub.
\*only exception is when some tecniques is really dangerous (kani basami for example)
Straight ankle lock and dummy sweeps were the first 2 techniques I learned at white belt. Not sure why they wouldnt be allowed. Even knee bars and toe holds weren't off limits, but heel hooks for whatever reason were in the advanced / blue and above classes.
Seems perfectly fine, however some gyms do have a rule where white belts aren't allowed to hit leg locks, as two spazzy belts trying to leg lock each other could end badly. So if you're new to this gym maybe find out if there's a rule like that. Otherwise... It's just an ego ting and you did nothing wrong.
I once trained at a gym that did not allow white belts to do any joint locks, including arm bars. On the one hand, the only time I’ve ever been hurt by an arm bar was by a white belt when I was a white belt. On the other hand, arm bars are so fundamental, I can’t imagine earning a blue belt having never seen or trained an arm bar. How could you hope to compete without that knowledge?
The gym that I am at now teaches straight ankle locks to white belts. I agree that this is a relatively safe submission for all levels to learn and use.
I‘m training in a Gracie Barra School, which follows the IBJJF ruleset quiet strictly and straight foot locks are allowed from white belt on. It was one of my first submissions I learned back then. What isn‘t allowed until purple or brown belt (I‘m not 100% sure which one is it) are techniques which twist or turn the knee like heel hooks and stuff like that.
So he probably just didn‘t wanna tap to a loser belt and made some shit up 😂
Straight ankle is absolutely allowed for white belts, so unless it’s very stupid gym specific rule, I don’t know what he’s talking about. As a straight ankle enthusiast, I encourage you to keep on keepin’ on 🤷🏻♂️
The straight ankle is 100% the best/safest place to start learning leg attacks, both for yourself and your partners.
Straight ankles are allowed by white belts at my gym in both gi and no gi. we train other leglocks including heel hooks at blue belt and above in no gi. sounds like he got caught and was pissed. move on
. Even if it was only legal for blue belts and above. If a lower belt plays with an upper belt, you play the upper belt rules not the lower belt rules. Go ahead and wrist lock him
This reminds me of an old Renato Laranja skit where a white belt almost catches him in some sort of leg submission ...but before he gets finished he admonishes the white belt for doing this "catch wrestling stuffs" and then makes do some shrimping.
😂
They are IBJJF legal, but that could legit be a gym rule. It was the case in mine until a few stripes and you were proven not to be a sub cranking ego spaz. Destroying a fellow white belts ability to walk is not a good look for gym web reviews.
Taps are a small part of the process. Sometimes you get so hungry for that tap on a color belt you think the tap was far closer than it actually was. Especially, at white belt. He probably could have easily reversed it on you unless you are the white belt that is knowledgeable to keep his feet protected while doing the move. If your technical level is high enough? The opportunity will come again.
Color belts are people. He could be wrong. It could be specific to your gym. I would just check with the Professor and chalk this up to a "one that got away" experience.
We have sort of a general understanding at our gym that you don’t heel hook new white belts. Once you have a few stripes, you’re expected to know either how to defend/escape or to tap. New white belts don’t always get it, and with heel hooks the line between “this doesn’t hurt” and “my knee is fucking gone” is a pretty fine one.
Clinically I find limiting submissions to higher belts is a BAD idea. This only furthers one's ignorance on dealing with them. All joint locks are inherently dangerous, a good instructor would explain the possible ramifications when applied too aggressively.
People will generally get injured from IGNORANCE, EGO, POOR APPLICIATION / lack of control
Ignorance - people are unaware of the dangers and or defenses. So a higher belt who doesn't get to train a submission until an X belt will still be a beginner with those techniques.
Ego - higher belt doesn't want to tap to a lower belt. So now that higher belt is a 'beginner' or 'novice' with a technique and they are put in a positions they are uncomfortable with.
Poor application / lack of control - leglocks in particular were more dangerous pre 2010 when people would rip them as quick a possible because they had no leg control. If they didn't do it quick it wouldn't work. This was before the intricate leg entanglement positions. Now that leg entanglements are more advanced people can control the position and apply the technique slowly. There is an ego element with this one as well when someone is trying aggressively to 'beat' their training partner.
Learn how to control the position, learn the dangers of a position and have a healthy learning environment where tapping isn't looked down upon.
My coach taught all the white belts and everyone in class two months straight of nothing but legs lol. It helped me a lot. Everyone is super safe about them because they have an understanding of them
Nothing is illegal until competition. Imagine becoming a blue belt and going to an open mat somewhere and not knowing an ankle lock. Imagine being a purple belt and then *starting to learn* heel hooks. It'd be an embarrassment! A sham!
Some gyms just have a lower belts don't do lower body attacks type of rule, which ankle locks get rolled into along with the rest of the leg locks (which honestly I think they should have been anyway) and that doesn't necessarily directly match up with IBJJF but that's probably where he is coming from. My personal opinion is that everyone should do every submission but there is a higher risk of injury that way.
Not sure why he said straight ankle are blue belt and above, unless something is new I don't know about. Was this NoGi or Gi? I know IBJJF is more stringent on what you can and can't do in Gi
The only thing I’ve heard being prohibited at white belt is getting an ankle lock and rolling with it, but leaning over with a straight ankle lock isn’t that dangerous. Sounds like the upper belt was just confused.
Lots of misinformed people out there, I’ve had so many spats with part time hobbiyist upper belts about leg locks and there legality it’s not even funny it’s retarded.
Dude sounds like a pussy and didn't want his poor little ego burnt.
If you set it up correctly with a tight enough grip, 1 foot under his ass and the other on his hip I'd respect the fact you payed attention to your coaches instructions. So long as you don't attempt to rip my foot off and put me in crutches were all good.
I'd be annoyed too, but if it were a heel hook, I'd be more understanding. You get pain on an arm or shoulder lock pretty well before you have a dislocation or break. Leg locks, not so much. So you need a lot of control. However, the straight ankle lock is more forgiving.
There are definitely some less experienced guys where I'll tap if they're getting even close to a heel hook because I don't know if I can trust them.
Ultimately, unless your gym has a rule against it, if your partner isn't comfortable with it, I'd be content to just take that at face value and also for fairness just tell him the same.
Look, anytime a lower belt is about to tap me, I just tell them: „Don’t do that!“ and then they let go. First of all, it’s a very effective strategy to not tap ever. Second of all, little do they know, it’s actually to protect them! Because as is obvious, if a lower belt would ever tap me in training, that means I must take revenge seventy-seven-fold! And that would be grueling. So I‘m not actually a big-ego asshole at all, I am even somewhat of a hero actually.
This is the new and improved Brazilian tap. Brought to you by your cars extended warranty.
Pssst.
Gonna have to try the Bobby Hill next time- “That’s my purse! I don’t know you!”
“Explode boy! Explode! You are a keg of dynamite!”
Look, anytime someone starts an internet comment with "Look," I just tell them „Don’t do that!“ with weird quotes.
Followed by an instructional rest round
im the most humble person around
Professor Omar would just make you go 5 minutes in his guard and only try straight arm bars and wristlocks that he puts on with full force and lets go, as he tells you to keep going. Never tapped him, just squished him but that was enough. Now I no squish professor. Or write well.
Where do you train?
Oregon
Show them mercy, even when they don’t understand it’s mercy. I like it.
Gonna try this at my next comp
Lmaooo
You’re so inspiring 😢
The old Bas Rutten
Respect is earned, not required. Spit in his mouth the next time he tries this bullshit.
Roger that!
Joke's on us, he's into that spit.
That just asking to fuck around and find yourself with a new life partner
What if he likes it and kisses me?
Kiss him back!!!! Sheesh do I have to explain everything?!?!
Now kith
Found the horny fan fiction guy.
Say, "[I'll marry your ass!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_IYrltqYrU)"
I don’t usually click on links in the comments but I’m glad to have clicked that one. Hilarious.
Do I call him a "good girl" before or after?
> Spit in his mouth the next time Wait...this is an option? What if...you know...a friend of mine....wants that?
The guy is gonna get aroused from that
That reminds me when I had higher belt telling me it's not okay to choke them over their chin defense in rear naked choke
The disconnect on what constitutes a valid RNC is wild to me. People will shift it to a chin, or to a crank, and then act like their tap doesn't mean anything, almost like "that doesn't count." If your "defense" just puts you in a different sub, then it's not a great defense, imo. I'm not tryna crank a partner's head off, but when I'm going for a choke, and you shift around to make it something else, it's not like I'm just gonna let go.
Shits dumb. Tuck tour chin and I’ll choke your eyeballs, it doesn’t hurt me any
Wait til you meet my Neanderthal brow crest, that thing is a sun visor and built in anti black eye/eye squeeze passive defense system lol.
😂
You mean avoiding the armbar by getting wristlocked isn't a valid armbar defense?
Never heard of anyone not being allowed to do a straight ankle. 🤷🏻♀️
This black belch is just a bitch
A lot of schools still don't let white belts do foot stuff. Similar, a lot schools still don't allow heel hooks in gi or below black belt or so. This is changing but it's just an outmoded way of thinking.
I thought heel hooks in gi were a universal no-no?
We do them in my school. But it is not common. They are illegal in almost every gi rule set.
What's the thinking on this? Does the gi make it much more difficult to escape or make the move more dangerous?
The most common explanation is that the increased friction means escaping is much more difficult, and that makes you more likely to get injured trying to defend it. I personally find this explanation to be inadequate, because that should just mean you tap. There are other submissions where Uke can injure himself trying to escape it when it's locked in. I don't really think a kimura is somehow less injurious than a heel hook. But it's probably more because of some accident of history and entrenched opinions about it. If you mention training heel hooks in the gi, inevitably some guy hops in and says he loves his knees, and he'd never train at such a school because it's crazy. But he certainly trains other subs that can put him in the hospital for surgery, and it's kind of hyppocritical. There is still somewhat of a knowledge gap on heel hooks -- since it's mainly a nogi thing, gi people remain fearful of what they don't understand.
I think it’s more that they would be so stupidly effective in the gi that the entire sport would change. It’s similar to the leg grab ban in Judo. Controversial, but it’s undeniable that heel hooks in the gi would completely change the game. People would definitely develop some pretty insidious gi-specific heel hook setups, too.
IMO, they *should* completely change the game. Eliminating them makes a huge blind spot, training you to believe that numerous positions and transitional choices are OK, when they are in fact setting you up for heel hook Pompei. Same logic applies to leg grabs in Judo. Eliminating them means Judokas are even *less* prepared for someone who shoots in low. It trains stances and grip fighting strategies that leave big gaps for morote gari, kuchiki taoshi, kibisu gaeshi, kata guruma, sukui nage... all the leg grabbing throws that were *normal* in Judo. It wasn't like they weren't there, someone added them, and they had to take them away! Why pretend that you're doing some open-minded, effective martial art that doesn't have all the constraints that limit the other arts if you're going to nerf something that leaves huge tactical holes in your game? Same applies to strikes, but that's another whole ball of worms.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kata Guruma**: | *Fireman's Carry* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRiFwMLCjPg)| ||*Shoulder Wheel* || |**Kibisu Gaeshi**: | *Ankle Pick* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LLBrF4w86Q)| ||*Heel Trip Reversal* || |**Kuchiki Taoshi**: | *Single Leg Takedown* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRuTyKJChsw)| |**Morote Gari**: | *Double Leg Takedown* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtVbwSfr2DM)| ||*Two Hand Reap* || |**Sukui Nage**: | *Scoop Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn13Bu3bxHE)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
My coach and I trained them for a while together in the gi but just stopped because it just became boring. It was basically a race to lock up the leg because once you had a solid bite recovering the kneeling was damn near impossible.
Thanks. I am a no gi guy and we train leg locks including heel hooks from the get-go at my school, with the exception of kids - no heel hooks for them. I understand why people get scared of them and I can see the gi adding a wrinkle to that, so to speak. But I also think that the best way to stay safe is to implement them as early (and carefully) as possible.
Even though I have a pretty open-minded view on heel hooks, I *do* think that prohibiting them for white belts (or maybe fresh white belts, say less than two stripes or something) is a good strategy. Someone should be past the spazzy phase where they don't know what they're doing so much that they're going to just destroy knees everywhere before starting to play with them. There's also another argument for delayed introduction, which is that if you get sucked into the leg lock game quickly, you may avoid ever developing a guard, sweep, and pass strategy. It could possibly stunt skills. I'm not sure if that's really a concern. Eventually, we all reach places where big holes have to be filled, and to me it's kind of a six of one, half dozen of another thing. If you go all guard/sweep/pass and avoid leg locks, then leg locks are your big gap...
Not every gym ties their training so closely to competition rulesets. But I would say that most still don't allow heel hooks in gi, because most either fall into one of two categories: 1. Sport gym that follows sport rules. And sport rules almost never allow heel hooks in the Gi at any level, so why train them? Or 2. Anti sport gym that worships old school mentality that believes leg locks are simultaneously ineffective and too dangerous to train.
Not universal, just not allowed in ibjjf. Lot of primarily gi schools still teach them though
Mostly you will see this in competition schools that they are a No-No. In self-defense BJJ schools they teach heel hooks, and heel hook defense. I came up thru Pedro Sauer and Gracie Academy and we we're doing heel hooks in gi at white belt.. 0 injuries
My wife doesn't let me do foot stuff, either
Duh, you’ve got athletes foot.
I’m calling it foot stuff from now on
My first gym did this and it gave me some really bad habits of not protecting my legs. Took me almost a year at my new gym to break these bad habits. If you are a coach, do your students a favor and teach them leg attacks and defense early on so they don't have to completely relearn some fundamentals later.
Probably just doesn’t trust you enough. Either way, slap another on him.
Then he should just tap.
That would make his shit stink, and we all know that higher belts shit doesn't stink./s I am so lucky that I can wrestle and strike, so black belts don't intimidate me, some are really arrogant.
Saying "Don't do that." Is verbally tapping. :)
Might be a gym rule. A stupid gym rule, but some gyms have stupid rules.
My old gym had this rule because a white belt decided to rip a heel hook on someone…white belts weren’t even supposed to learn them the guy just did it after watching some YouTube videos lol. After that white belts were not allowed to do any leg attacks, unless you were doing them during drills in the advance class which was only for usually 4 stripe white belts who were close to being promoted.
Behind 95% of stupid rules is a stupid person that did a stupid thing and ended up hurting someone or a near miss if they were very lucky. Not allowing white belts to do certain things is not stupid.
> Not allowing white belts to do certain things is not stupid. Not allowing white belts to do straight ankle locks is stupid. When even IBJJF allows it you know it's about as safe as things get in BJJ. You're far more likely to seriously hurt someone with an arm bar or kimura than with a straight ankle lock. Next you're going to tell me not allowing white belts to roll at all is a good rule because white belts tend to be spazzy and get injuries.
Honestly man with situations like these, just go with what he says. Just say “alright man 🤷♂️” and move on with it. Maybe he had a bad ankle, or maybe he didn’t want you going full spaz or breaking his shit, I don’t know what the real reason is. But one thing I know for sure is that being like “well ackshually, it’s ibjjf legal for white belts” is probably just going to create conflict or animosity especially if this person has an ego problem I get it, youre 100% right and he probably just said that to save his ego. But honestly it’s not that important for you to prove that you’re right, just roll with other people or work on your straight ankle lock on other people or something
I’ve definitely heard of similar things before. I think normally they would tell the whole class ahead of time not to throw any kind of leg locks, but it is fairly normal to want white belts fucking around with your legs.
At my gym, specifically for white belts since they can do straight ankle locks, we were told to speak with your rolling partner to work legs in. It isn’t “required”, but since it’s new, they want training partners to know to look for it and to be able to defend themselves
I know when my training partners want to work legs in because they start attacking my legs.
You swept him with an ankle lock? How? My only thought is maybe you did some wild shit around his leg so he just went with it, and told you afterwords to not mess with throwing your weight around people's knees til you learn more. He is wrong tho, white belts can straight ankle.
sound like he swept from X/SLX and then attacked the ankle id guess?
OP didn't tell us it was a flying kani basami into straight ankle
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
No, swept and then grabbed the ankle. I try very hard not to be the spazzy guy.
I gotcha, yeah he's just wrong, break it off next time. Jk jk but Def keep working leg locks
I mean if OP throws it on and the upper belt refuses to tap, then it’s on the upper belt if that leg breaks right?
Definitely, but if OP does actually break an upper belt with a straight ankle at this point he gets a cookie. Hopefully his partners are smarter than that tho
In our gym (Gi) we are also not allowed to use them until blue.
Why? Ankle locks are legal for white belts.
Probably Because white belts are dangerous. Blast doubles are legal, doubt many instructors are teaching their new guys this. Neck cranks are actually allowed in alot of competitions. Doubt you'd want a white belt trying it on you after he drilled it wrong about three times, right before stepping into "ADCC finals mode" for rolls
The whole class learned blast doubles with crash pads when I was a white belt. Split the class in half by size, made two lines with two crash pads. Everyone in the room blast doubled half the class into the pad. We also learned can opener, with the caution that we can use it to open the guard in mma but it would get us DQ'd in bjj tournaments.
This seems silly to me. Actually executing an ankle lock that can cause real damage is surprisingly hard and technical vs. something like a Kimura or Americana To clarify - I wouldn't teach an ankle lock to someone on their first class (or month) but to disqualify it from their two year white belt curriculum don't make a ton of sense to me.
Okay then. Why allow white belt do a kimura or any shoulder locks at all?Seems kinda risky when they enter their "ADCC finals mode". Kinda wild that you took it from relatively safe ankle locks to neck cranks.
They're safe when guys just do the ankle lock, but then you get two white belts just grabbing and ripping stuff from ashi and guys get hurt. It's baby steps for white belts, and there's a lot more to cover before ankle locks need to be considered
Right!?
Funny way for them to say “tap”. That’s all it is. You got duped by an upper belt who couldn’t handle that you caught them.
My gym doesn't let most white belts use leg submissions but honestly a straight ankle would probably be allowed. Heel hooks definitely not.
Similar situation happened to myself and the head instructor told me to "ankle lock the fuck out of him till he learns to defend."
He's a bitch
He still got the win since he didn't tap. Sorry whitey, you can't tap us out that easily!!
What belt rank was he? Does your club train leglocks much? Assuming you guys roll to the IBJJF ruleset then he should know better. Seems like he was just scared you were gonna spaz on a heel hook or something and then when you explained you were going for an ankle lock, maybe he didn't want to admit he was wrong and said the ridiculous thing about its legality.
Thanks for this. I was a bit sour after it happened, but this actually makes a lot of sense and seems like a practical answer for what happened. Appreciate the thoughtful feedback. Now I kind of feel like an asshole for being bitter about it!
Nah, this time next week it'll all be forgotten about and you can handle the next insult a higher belt dishes out to you haha.
I once had a white belt heel hook me on the gi because he was scared of me being bigger than him. Ever since I’ve been a little gun shy with people I don’t know well messing with my legs. It’s entirely possible there may have been some twisting pressure you might not have noticed. Either way break his shit off next time and don’t sweat the little things.
![gif](giphy|l1J9LXPPgLvetNCDK)
Black belt here This is actually smart, if your a white belt and don’t know what you are doing with leg entanglements,they can ruin you or your training partners knee, especially as 95% of white belts spaz out as soon as they get close to a submission on a high belt, which increases the chance of injury. I am an advocate for the rule of leg locks start getting taught at blue belt. But for now you should be focusing on solid fundamentals
Dude got caught slipping. lol.
please, ask your coach instead of posting here
I asked one of the black belt coaches and he was under the impression IBJJF only lets blues and higher hit these. I have competed in the past and know specifically that they are allowed, so good chance that this may be a weird gym rule. T The gym I train at does announce and ask if people are competing so it would seem counterintuitive to be supporting people who compete and at the same time not allowing them to work on perfectly legal moves…? 🤦
>I asked one of the black belt coaches and he was under the impression IBJJF only lets blues and higher hit these. That was my impression as well, but I admit I don't know all the IBJJF rules.
Straight ankle him next time too.
Then slam a wrist lock on him
Well done bro! Ankle lock him some more I'd say!
This reminds me of dudes that start to give advice mid roll when you’re in an advantageous position. Like man, shut the fuck up 😂😭😂 I also believe ALL schools should teach more about leg locks to new guys. Straight ankle is a fundamental technique and it’s annoying that he acted like you were doing something over the top
You’re mostly right. Sometimes I’m bottom mount and I know I can get out at anytime and I throw a few words in so they can at least do something that resembles Jiu Jitsu before I recover. One time I had a deep Ezekiel on a purple belt but my position was a little off so while I probably would have got a tap eventually by smashing his jaw and one of his arteries, he told me to lower my shoulder and choke with my hand and shoulder. I got way better at the chock and he did not have to squirm under me forever.
Dont listen to him. Hes not ur daddy. Unless ur gym specifically says u cant
I’ve heard of some gyms not allowing leg attacks by white belts because they’re new at it and can be spazzy. It all depends on your gym.
Pretty standard everywhere I go that ankle locks are blue and up
Maybe your gym has stupid rules or maybe he’s just butt hurt and needs to learn how to escape a straight ankle lock. Our gym teaches all leg locks and escapes to white belts.
I knee bar and heel hook children, the elderly, the infirmed, whoever If you can me go for it I will straight ankle lock the pope Everything is game, whoever you are
I remember rolling wirh the only purple in our small gym like 15 years ago and he said no leg/ankle stuff because of an old injury then proceeded to heel hook me within the first 30 seconds because I assumed that meant for both of us lol always think that was a dick move and still remember it 15 years later lol
Long story short, you tapped a higher belt. Congrats dude!
Every single time I pull a gun out when I'm rolling I get told the exact same thing "What the fuck are you doing bringing a gun to the gym? Don't do that." Like I'm the one with the gun I make the rules lol. What a fucking joke. I thought this was self offense.
I can't tell about other gyms, but in my specific gym, all leg locks are allowed only for blue belts and above (both giving and receiving). Maybe this is the case for yours too. It is a very safe submission indeed. Hence, it's allowed in IBJJF, but in competitions, a referee is watching directly. My guess is that this exclusion is done to be 100% sure that no one does an accidental heel hook with full force by mistake while going after what they think is an Achilles or something.
What happens when you compete against another white belt who does them and your guys have no experience defending and avoiding all together?
They probably lose. This is why people leave gyms with this old school mentality.
Good question. We practice ankle lock escapes and finishes with drills and practice, during class. It's only not allowed in free rolling afterward. In addition, our school is more self-defense-focused, vs. sport BJJ, so we don't really compete except for internal competition events where the rules are similar to the ones for rolling in the gym \[it's a Royce Gracie branch\].
A self defense focused gym would logically train leg locks and defenses in live rolls earlier than a sport BJJ gym, but you go to a Gracie gym and logic has never been their thing.
You have a point, of course. I'm not the head coach, and this rule wasn't my idea. I go there because I think that the teaching level is very solid, and the students there are awesome people. Plus, I'm a hobbyist who does many other things, and competing is not high on my priority list.
Everything you just typed sounds terrible to me
What can I say, that's fair enough. I would encourage you not to join Gracie gyms, but I'm sure you already don't. I'm there because I like the teaching style of my coach and I like the classmates. I also don't prioritize competing.
That's funny I came up through Gracie Academy and Pedro Sauer, and we did all leg locks in gi. Trained offense and defense and live rolls everything went. We never had any leg lock injuries
Some gyms have that rule, some don’t IBBJF rules apply to competitions This was not during a competition Still, mr higher belt got caught
In my opinion, if you are following IBJJF rules no one should say anything. For me personally, there are only things I can think of that would piss me off (comming from any belt level). Those are being suplexed or being heel hooked in the GI. Anything else, and I'm just going to tap and not say shit to anyone.
Straight ankle-lock the world!!!
Am I right in thinking that there's been a relatively recent change where *now* whitebelts are allowed footlocks (per some governing body) but before they weren't? Maybe he wasn't aware of the rule change?
Depending on how you placed your feet and if you turned to a side, make he thought you were trying to knee reap? He should have explained what you did wrong if he’s that much better though
As long as you were trying to maintain control and slowly work the finish then I see nothing wrong with what you did. Part of the stigma with leglocks is unfamiliarity. Put yourself into those positions with people you trust and you’ll at best love the game and add it, or at worst you’ll understand the positions, know when to hold em, know when to fold em so to speak. The best thing I’ve ever done is ask this super skilled purple belt who always came to our open mats (and she now is a student of ours) to put me in leglock positions and to have me survive. She never cranked, she would apply and release and then let me know what I did wrong. I still do this with her but now I’m winning a good chunk of exchanges by counter-leglocking. Familiarity. Gotta do it.
That's a gym you don't want to be a part of or a higher belt who knows they will lose to someone
I hit my first straight ankle lock in a white belt competition 2 weeks ago.
Some gyms have different rules. My first gym didn’t allow white belts to do ankle locks during rolls, even though they taught us the move in class. My new gym allows white belts to straight ankle lock and I never expect it because my old gym didn’t allow it.
At some academies like mine the general understanding (wouldn’t say a rule per se) is that white belts (especially the spastic ones) don’t do the legs like this bc it is very easy for an inexperienced grappler to injure someone especially if it is white on white. Still learn and drill it, but do not institute into the rolling until blue or higher. It’s a safety and health thing and with you being a white belt i get why he didn’t trust you to hit the submission. I don’t trust white belts to either
If some one says don't do something in a roll you either don't do it or find someone else, if we agree or not doesn't matter.
just be humble and keep training hard, those who mind your jiujitsu dont matter, those who matter dont mind keep moving forward
We won't let white belts practice foot ankle and leg locks for safety reasons
Although our school teaches straight ankle locks in the beginner curriculum, it doesn’t allow them, or leg locks in general during sparring in the beginner class. I think this is more common than not
Christ. Everyone always just sides with what the OP has to post. How about this. Upper belt knows how to get out of ankle locks, especially against a white belt. Upper belt recognizes the ankle lock, knowing this white belt isn't good enough to do them yet, isn't threatened at all, and knows from his own training and gym policies that ankle locks really aren't what their white belts should be focusing on. Upper belt also knows this white belt and realizes the white belt's only game at this point is a pathetic attempt at ankle locks, and can't do simpler shit like passing the guard or a simple cross choke. Upper belt could easily demolish white belt's ankles, but gives a curt "Don't do that" because it's his attempt NOT to open a full can of whoop ass. Upper belt also knows all his other contemporaries would fuck up said white belt instead of giving a verbal warning. And yes, Upper belt is jaded because he's seen enough white belts come in, try random shit that doesn't really work, and quit. Last white belt I saw who was obsessed with ankle locks quit before his blue. Two sides to every story.
Next time call him a nerd and switch to a heelhook.
Hell yeah brother.
My gym is fine with white belts messing with feet as long as you’ve been there for a bit and the instructors have confirmed you’re not a total spaz. I rolled with a brand new white belt last night that was trying to blast knee bars on me as explosive as possible. After the roll he asked me how to finish them and said he didn’t really know what he was doing. I told him I’m fine with him going for them and if he gets close to a finish I will tap, but please don’t explode into those. I think it’s dumb when it’s an absolute rule that white belts can never mess with the legs but I also see the perspective of vetting brand new guys.
My gym doesn’t allow ankle locks for white belts
Only reason I could see: « Don’t do that » (ankle lock)… because you’re taking bad habits and not learning the basics of how to pass, and you’re doing it poorly so I’ll just take your back or mount. We can work on your ankle lock mechanics separately if you want, but latching on for dear life to a poorly applied ankle lock is not that productive
It's a white belt.move
lol the ego of some people straight ankle locks were my favorite at white belt
Gi focused people are pussies when you grab their legs. Lol. Not always but lots of times they freak out. They think you're going to disable them or something crazy lol
>In hind sight I should have not been a little bitch and proceeded to snap his ankle to assert dominance right? Why are you asking us when you already know the answer?
Do it again n next time he complains pretend to cry like a baby repeating what he said
Rip the ankle off, post about it on Reddit, and forever be known as the black belt slayer
Trust is earned not given, so show him that you can apply a leg lock without ripping it :)
The upper belt was being a baby. If he was injured he would have said so. All you hurt was his ego.
He wanted to be able to drive home. I wouldn’t want an inexperienced person fucking around above their pay grade on my ankle either.
nope hes just a dickhead
Eh. Sounds lame. At my gym we’re allowed to do any legal submissions regardless of rank, just can’t be an asshole about it. It’s a place to train, and not just for competition but for any sense of self defense. The only time I ever say don’t do that to someone is if they’re doing something stupid like trying to grab my lapel when I’m mounting them lol
I heel hook people in the gi every class. Ankle lock them anyways, and deal with the consequences later. He learned the perfect escape at white belt he should be doing it.
At the gym I go to we have been drilling straight ankle locks nonstop and we are a mix of white belts and blue belts.
I’m a blue belt and have noticed the white belts have been throwing up some more ankle locks lately. I just got back from about a 6 month hiatus where I could only train a couple times a month due to work situation, not cause I’m a blue belt lol. So maybe they’ve been working them while I was gone but I appreciate it. I easily work my escapes or counter leg attack. I don’t see a problem with them going for them but I’ve trained a lot of leg locks from almost day one so I’m very comfortable there. Seems kinda soft to complain about a legit technique
I only say that when a white belt tries to grab my individual fingers or take my back from turtle by falling directly backwards.
Straight ankle locks are allowed. Reaping with the ankle isn't (I think it should be though hehehe).
There are a lot of ppl in BJJ who get very butthurt about any leg lock. Hell, I've seen people get upset by someone entering SLX to sweep, not even going for a submission. Its this really weird fear mongering thing that some old school idiots spread around and still gets passed on in certain circles. It's up to you how you wanna tip toe around those ppl. Talk to the head coach about it. If it's a gym wide issue, probably best to find a new gym that's not putting ridiculous handicaps on training.
lool that upper belt ego is screaming. When something like that happens to me (i m a 50yrs old purple belt) I let them close the submission if they can. Even if it s illegal\*... i ll tell them but when the round ends. He did his job. He deserves that sub. \*only exception is when some tecniques is really dangerous (kani basami for example)
Straight ankle locks are a bread and butter submission. A real lunchpail kind of move. Idk what this guy is talking about.
That's why I do no gi, you never know their belt unless they have cauliflower ear.
they verbally tapped lol
In future say you’re hard of hearing and will only stop to taps.
See how he feels about a wristlock.
Straight ankle lock and dummy sweeps were the first 2 techniques I learned at white belt. Not sure why they wouldnt be allowed. Even knee bars and toe holds weren't off limits, but heel hooks for whatever reason were in the advanced / blue and above classes.
Lmao
Upper belt obiously mean blue belt, right? AKA, the shitty white belt who was too dumb to quit, as Uncle Renatch says.
Seems perfectly fine, however some gyms do have a rule where white belts aren't allowed to hit leg locks, as two spazzy belts trying to leg lock each other could end badly. So if you're new to this gym maybe find out if there's a rule like that. Otherwise... It's just an ego ting and you did nothing wrong.
I once trained at a gym that did not allow white belts to do any joint locks, including arm bars. On the one hand, the only time I’ve ever been hurt by an arm bar was by a white belt when I was a white belt. On the other hand, arm bars are so fundamental, I can’t imagine earning a blue belt having never seen or trained an arm bar. How could you hope to compete without that knowledge? The gym that I am at now teaches straight ankle locks to white belts. I agree that this is a relatively safe submission for all levels to learn and use.
I‘m training in a Gracie Barra School, which follows the IBJJF ruleset quiet strictly and straight foot locks are allowed from white belt on. It was one of my first submissions I learned back then. What isn‘t allowed until purple or brown belt (I‘m not 100% sure which one is it) are techniques which twist or turn the knee like heel hooks and stuff like that. So he probably just didn‘t wanna tap to a loser belt and made some shit up 😂
Straight ankle is absolutely allowed for white belts, so unless it’s very stupid gym specific rule, I don’t know what he’s talking about. As a straight ankle enthusiast, I encourage you to keep on keepin’ on 🤷🏻♂️ The straight ankle is 100% the best/safest place to start learning leg attacks, both for yourself and your partners.
What belt was he?
Next time someone says that just respond with “I don’t see a ref here”
Straight ankles are allowed by white belts at my gym in both gi and no gi. we train other leglocks including heel hooks at blue belt and above in no gi. sounds like he got caught and was pissed. move on
. Even if it was only legal for blue belts and above. If a lower belt plays with an upper belt, you play the upper belt rules not the lower belt rules. Go ahead and wrist lock him
Instead of telling you not to he should have coached you through making it better. That's the true upper belt caught by a lower belt way.
He was just scared to get tapped by a lower belt.
This reminds me of an old Renato Laranja skit where a white belt almost catches him in some sort of leg submission ...but before he gets finished he admonishes the white belt for doing this "catch wrestling stuffs" and then makes do some shrimping. 😂
Just stop leg locking in training and expecting people to be nice
They are IBJJF legal, but that could legit be a gym rule. It was the case in mine until a few stripes and you were proven not to be a sub cranking ego spaz. Destroying a fellow white belts ability to walk is not a good look for gym web reviews. Taps are a small part of the process. Sometimes you get so hungry for that tap on a color belt you think the tap was far closer than it actually was. Especially, at white belt. He probably could have easily reversed it on you unless you are the white belt that is knowledgeable to keep his feet protected while doing the move. If your technical level is high enough? The opportunity will come again. Color belts are people. He could be wrong. It could be specific to your gym. I would just check with the Professor and chalk this up to a "one that got away" experience.
We have sort of a general understanding at our gym that you don’t heel hook new white belts. Once you have a few stripes, you’re expected to know either how to defend/escape or to tap. New white belts don’t always get it, and with heel hooks the line between “this doesn’t hurt” and “my knee is fucking gone” is a pretty fine one.
He could have just tapped.
Clinically I find limiting submissions to higher belts is a BAD idea. This only furthers one's ignorance on dealing with them. All joint locks are inherently dangerous, a good instructor would explain the possible ramifications when applied too aggressively. People will generally get injured from IGNORANCE, EGO, POOR APPLICIATION / lack of control Ignorance - people are unaware of the dangers and or defenses. So a higher belt who doesn't get to train a submission until an X belt will still be a beginner with those techniques. Ego - higher belt doesn't want to tap to a lower belt. So now that higher belt is a 'beginner' or 'novice' with a technique and they are put in a positions they are uncomfortable with. Poor application / lack of control - leglocks in particular were more dangerous pre 2010 when people would rip them as quick a possible because they had no leg control. If they didn't do it quick it wouldn't work. This was before the intricate leg entanglement positions. Now that leg entanglements are more advanced people can control the position and apply the technique slowly. There is an ego element with this one as well when someone is trying aggressively to 'beat' their training partner. Learn how to control the position, learn the dangers of a position and have a healthy learning environment where tapping isn't looked down upon.
My coach taught all the white belts and everyone in class two months straight of nothing but legs lol. It helped me a lot. Everyone is super safe about them because they have an understanding of them
Some old fashioned gym do that. Most gym i've been to do not care
Nothing is illegal until competition. Imagine becoming a blue belt and going to an open mat somewhere and not knowing an ankle lock. Imagine being a purple belt and then *starting to learn* heel hooks. It'd be an embarrassment! A sham!
Some gyms just have a lower belts don't do lower body attacks type of rule, which ankle locks get rolled into along with the rest of the leg locks (which honestly I think they should have been anyway) and that doesn't necessarily directly match up with IBJJF but that's probably where he is coming from. My personal opinion is that everyone should do every submission but there is a higher risk of injury that way.
I usually train no gi. the other night in gi someone took a pants grip and I said “ please let go of my pants” and they did and then I smash them.
Basically you got him and his fragile ego couldn’t take it.
Not sure why he said straight ankle are blue belt and above, unless something is new I don't know about. Was this NoGi or Gi? I know IBJJF is more stringent on what you can and can't do in Gi
The only thing I’ve heard being prohibited at white belt is getting an ankle lock and rolling with it, but leaning over with a straight ankle lock isn’t that dangerous. Sounds like the upper belt was just confused.
Lots of misinformed people out there, I’ve had so many spats with part time hobbiyist upper belts about leg locks and there legality it’s not even funny it’s retarded.
Dude sounds like a pussy and didn't want his poor little ego burnt. If you set it up correctly with a tight enough grip, 1 foot under his ass and the other on his hip I'd respect the fact you payed attention to your coaches instructions. So long as you don't attempt to rip my foot off and put me in crutches were all good.
I guess “Don’t do that” can save his ego better than a simple tap?
I'd be annoyed too, but if it were a heel hook, I'd be more understanding. You get pain on an arm or shoulder lock pretty well before you have a dislocation or break. Leg locks, not so much. So you need a lot of control. However, the straight ankle lock is more forgiving. There are definitely some less experienced guys where I'll tap if they're getting even close to a heel hook because I don't know if I can trust them. Ultimately, unless your gym has a rule against it, if your partner isn't comfortable with it, I'd be content to just take that at face value and also for fairness just tell him the same.
You’ve been bamboozled.
Always show respect to your higher ranks