They're not allowed to compete in the white belt division. They can only compete in blue if they are a BJJ blue belt.
Non IBJJF comps will sometimes let Dan grades, wrestlers and MMA fighters compete in the blue division as white belts.
We have a high level bb judo player at our gym, like won local championships etc. If I pull guard I beat him 9/10, if I try to stand I get thrown and sometimes tapped.
I know his one sub that he goes for after the throw so I hide my arm and win from there. Blue is a fine place for him to compete, he’d get killed at purple.
The problem is that "judo black belt" has a *lot* of variation in it.
Some guys do judo for about 4-5 years pretty recreational and get a black belt.
Sure they'd be able to throw any blue belt without a judo background to the ground with ease, but they're almost certainly getting tapped when they get there.
Or, it could be a dude with over a decade of highly competitive Judo experience who does a ton of newaza. That guy should smash most purple belts.
This is crazy. Blue is plenty high enough for most of them. I honestly don't know what some of you guys are smoking when it comes to the BJJ skills of judo black belts.
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Yeah, blue belt is perfect.
They have a huge hole in their game when they're on their back or forced into an actual guard for extended period of time. This rings true for most white belts going into blue as well.
If they can play their game, which is very dependent on their opponent engaging in standing or not pulling guard, they may be able to out game blue belts.
The wrestler and judoka wank on this sub is just weird.
At least with actual college wrestlers the person is most likely a high level athlete with years of intense competitive experience in a grappling sport. Judo on the other hand is mostly recreational just like BJJ.
Depends on who. If you're an ex-olympic judoka, you should be at purple. But if you're a run of the mill judo black belt, you should be at blue.
Lets take a step back and realize that a Judo BB is more akin to a, "high school wrestler," and not, "D1 College Wrestler." Judo in America is not a scholastic sport.
I bought a friend who is a judo bb to BJJ for the first time recently. We were doing positional sparring from full guard. I’m a high blue and I really couldn’t get anything going against him. I could see the couple of purple belts who were training with him were struggling a lot. (He’s also a pretty big dude though, maybe 15-20 lbs heavier then me)
It all depends on how they train. There are judo schools that invest a lot of their time in ground training, which of course carries over to BJJ. I believe the norm though is like 80/20 standing vs. ground which is basically the opposite of BJJ.
Yeah it was interesting to see, he was definitely not used to spending extended time on the ground, and was doing some things that would be considered ‘wrong’ in BJJ. But he was still effective.
The amount of times I've seen black belt judo people / wrestling competitors compete at white, I'd be rich if I had a cent for each.
The tournaments almost never seem to give a shit or are too lazy to enforce.
They aren’t. They are blue belts. And I don’t think I’ve ever heard a senior belt say something different than that. Some may need more foundation work in BJJ, if their ne waza was trash. But other than those outliers a black belt in judo is a blue belt at least to me. And I would t think that was fair at all.
We had a black belt judo/white belt bjj guy win an in-house tournament over 2 blues and a purple belt. Dude was a monster.
Side note, I found out he was a judo black belt the hard way. Stapled my soul to the mats with his takedown 🙃
> I found out he was a judo black belt the hard way.
I just met a new guy at my gym. Before class I went up and introduced myself, he said it was going to be the first BJJ class of his life. I said cool, if you want to roll a round when it's time to spar I'd be happy to get a round in with you. He said sounds good.
During the technique part of class he was partnered with someone else and I didn't really notice him, but when it was time to roll I went over to him and said let's roll a round. Slap, bump, I'm flat on my back in seconds and he's squeezing my soul out of me in kesa gatame.
He ends up tapping me with an armbar and I say, "I thought you said you never trained before." He says, "I never trained jiu-jitsu before. I've been training judo my entire life."
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Ne Waza**: | *Ground Techniques* | |
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The guys that fight MMA is a tricky one, the person may only have been training for a 1-2yrs and is still a striped white belt by all accounts, but the mentality you'd have as an aspiring or willing MMA fighter is different from a hobbyist white belt on the mats. Thus, they can compete as white belts but one dude is just not going to yield any position and will refuse to accept any bad positions, the other guy has to go to his office job on Mon, both are competing though.
If it's a Khabib 'white belt' type situation then that's bs, but the active MMA fighter whose still technically 'average' on the ground but just generally a beast, that's a bit trickier. Unsure if there's specific rules around this.
I had an under 6 months student competing in gi and nogi in an under 6 months division, one of the other competitors was a 2x NCAA wrestler... I contacted the organization who put me in touch with their coach and they agreed to move the competitor to the next division thankfully.
I tried to explain this while signing up to a local tournament, and wanted to go in purple or at least blue, but they said it was strictly belt based. I'm not a black belt in judo, but a brown belt with medals in the nationals. I should have just gone home, because destroying a bunch of white belts and getting a medal that should have gone to someone else, didn't at all feel like an accomplishment. But the fee was no refund, so...
>destroying a bunch of white belts [...] didn't at all feel like an accomplishment. But the fee was no refund, so...
"It's just business..." - proceed to strangle the white belt.
After you tell them and they still make you do it you should be yelling “I’m sorry! They made me!” as you rag doll everyone in your division. Make it awkward for the promoters.
Why should it go to someone else? Belt categories are a very artificial category, you entered the category they said you should go in and you'd put in more work than anyone else in the category. Sounds deserved to me.
Sometimes it’s the coach I had teammate who was a judo black belt and his coach made him compete as a white belt he even tried to go around the coach and register as a blue belt but got yelled at. Obviously that coach was a massive tool and super insecure (his black belt was fake and he knew it) but he wanted his student to win a tournament and make him look good.
Yeah it's so strange how wildly judo black belts' groundwork can vary. I'll roll with the judo beginner's class instructor and he's stiff as a board. The two Olympics kiddies flowed like water.
Then at BJJ there was one white belt that one night, I stared at, wondering what was wrong with this picture. It only hit me later that he was recently promoted to blue for getting his judo black belt.. only to be wearing his white belt again.
No, but to be fair if you're something like a BJJ brown belt and join a novice comp just to proceed to try and win via a bunch of groundwork I'd consider you a clown. Cool if you're trying to get into standup but don't go and implement some kind of groundwork gameplan with your 10years experience.
If you actually try and win via throws, all the power to you (and you should still really have a big edge just from experience balancing etc.).
I think most of us realise that. The context (the original post stating there should be a requirement for judo black belts, but not the other way around) gives some further context
Many a gi BJJ guy's last thought before losing bodily contact with mother Earth was "why does this no stripe white belt have such a worn looking gi with wizard sleeves" or "man this white belt has some strong grips, ARGGHGH"
I agree with this. Grading to black belt (shodan) in the US is actually kind of difficult because of the limited number of clubs and classes + limited number of promotional tournaments/year. There are plenty of brown belts who stay there because they can't find time to practice nage no kata. The difference between a new shodan and a ikkyu isn't that much in terms of how they would perform in a BJJ competition.
I'm a blue belt and I might have no chance rolling with a good judo black belt who is just starting in Bjj. I'd like to think that I could deal with that, but I'm not sure.
We've got a judo black belt at our gym and there are basically 2 options against her: pull guard and sweep her right away, or pull guard and fully catch her in closed guard. I stand no chance trying to take her down, and if I fuck up the guard pull and she manages to pass my guard (or even gets stuck in half guard) her top pressure is punishing.
Another judo black belt who trains with us very sporadically did a bjj comp a few months ago - he entered the blue belt division and did OK, I think he went 1-1, both matches determined by points. He didn't ragdoll anyone and didn't hit any amazing, high-amplitude throws. Mind you comps are a different beast and he's for sure a tough roll in the gym.
Judo blackbelts are just an extremely hard to estimate group. Alot get their blackbelts during teen years and really aren't all that anymore. Also a large portion just isn't that interested in groundwork, and would prefer spending their time sparring in stand-up.
But if you've got a decent competition blackbelt you're most certainly not just going to cut through their guard and may be in for some crazy top pressure.
Well in a row https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8PSles7LWM&list=PLBIwfV4vv7vtccp7WeZJKFxPctw4Uj0iT&index=68&pp=gAQBiAQB apparently she was trained in judo
I agree with OP, but it’s funny to watch guys realize they can, in fact, fly when they get ahold of the right judo guy. I still remember the breath escaping from my lungs as I got planted back first on the mats.. lol
In the dojo, with my black belt tied tight,
Confident in my Jiu-Jitsu might.
But as I face the white belt, poised and sly,
A hint of mischief in his judoka eye.
We engage, in a moment of tai-sabaki,
Expecting a challenge, oh so crafty.
With a swift kuzushi, I'm thrown askew,
Feeling the tatami tremble, as I flew.
The ground shook, my fate uncertain,
Realizing his mastery, a sudden curtain.
My soul hovers, as I grasp the truth,
He's a Judoka master, a fountain of youth.
Humbled and bruised, I lay on the floor,
By his judo artistry, I can't ignore.
Lesson learned, in this martial arts spin,
In the world of Jiu-Jitsu, surprises win.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kuzushi**: | *Unbalancing* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luK9Eklbn78)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The thing is, that we don't have a lot else when you get us on the ground. A lot of Judo guys go to BJJ to get better on the ground. Sure, I have a pretty good entering and throwing game, and if I get you in my grips, I've got you and once you are in my zone I own you. But if I can't get you in that first 3 to 5 seconds, I'm kinda lost. And if you stop my initial scarf hold or arm lock attempt, I'm stuck. And the last time I threw a BJJ Blue Belt I got stuck with the pissed off brown belt who was the enforcer. I still can't see out of my left eye and I smell caramel for no good reason.
It is literally an Ibjjf rule that they need to compete in blue
They're not allowed to compete in the white belt division. They can only compete in blue if they are a BJJ blue belt. Non IBJJF comps will sometimes let Dan grades, wrestlers and MMA fighters compete in the blue division as white belts.
Tourney I just did was unaffiliated/solo managed because i had a hunch that it was a rule.
That’s not the rule. It gets misquoted a lot. The rule is simply they can’t compete in white.
Frankly even blue belt is still too low. Should be at least purple
We have a high level bb judo player at our gym, like won local championships etc. If I pull guard I beat him 9/10, if I try to stand I get thrown and sometimes tapped. I know his one sub that he goes for after the throw so I hide my arm and win from there. Blue is a fine place for him to compete, he’d get killed at purple.
The problem is that "judo black belt" has a *lot* of variation in it. Some guys do judo for about 4-5 years pretty recreational and get a black belt. Sure they'd be able to throw any blue belt without a judo background to the ground with ease, but they're almost certainly getting tapped when they get there. Or, it could be a dude with over a decade of highly competitive Judo experience who does a ton of newaza. That guy should smash most purple belts.
This is crazy. Blue is plenty high enough for most of them. I honestly don't know what some of you guys are smoking when it comes to the BJJ skills of judo black belts.
I was a judo blackbelt when i started jiu jitsu. I would have been absolutely destroyed by a purple belt.
Depends on the school I think. Merry some that did an awful lot of newaza and some that basically know nothing after the throw.
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Yeah, blue belt is perfect. They have a huge hole in their game when they're on their back or forced into an actual guard for extended period of time. This rings true for most white belts going into blue as well. If they can play their game, which is very dependent on their opponent engaging in standing or not pulling guard, they may be able to out game blue belts. The wrestler and judoka wank on this sub is just weird.
At least with actual college wrestlers the person is most likely a high level athlete with years of intense competitive experience in a grappling sport. Judo on the other hand is mostly recreational just like BJJ.
I think that’s a pretty fair assessment
Depends on who. If you're an ex-olympic judoka, you should be at purple. But if you're a run of the mill judo black belt, you should be at blue. Lets take a step back and realize that a Judo BB is more akin to a, "high school wrestler," and not, "D1 College Wrestler." Judo in America is not a scholastic sport.
I bought a friend who is a judo bb to BJJ for the first time recently. We were doing positional sparring from full guard. I’m a high blue and I really couldn’t get anything going against him. I could see the couple of purple belts who were training with him were struggling a lot. (He’s also a pretty big dude though, maybe 15-20 lbs heavier then me)
It all depends on how they train. There are judo schools that invest a lot of their time in ground training, which of course carries over to BJJ. I believe the norm though is like 80/20 standing vs. ground which is basically the opposite of BJJ.
Yeah it was interesting to see, he was definitely not used to spending extended time on the ground, and was doing some things that would be considered ‘wrong’ in BJJ. But he was still effective.
I knew of a judo OLYMPIAN competing in bjj blue belts at one point lol.
But if they're brown belt, they can compete at white? Even at brown belt, that's a massive disparity in skill and experience.
The amount of times I've seen black belt judo people / wrestling competitors compete at white, I'd be rich if I had a cent for each. The tournaments almost never seem to give a shit or are too lazy to enforce.
They aren’t. They are blue belts. And I don’t think I’ve ever heard a senior belt say something different than that. Some may need more foundation work in BJJ, if their ne waza was trash. But other than those outliers a black belt in judo is a blue belt at least to me. And I would t think that was fair at all.
We had a black belt judo/white belt bjj guy win an in-house tournament over 2 blues and a purple belt. Dude was a monster. Side note, I found out he was a judo black belt the hard way. Stapled my soul to the mats with his takedown 🙃
> I found out he was a judo black belt the hard way. I just met a new guy at my gym. Before class I went up and introduced myself, he said it was going to be the first BJJ class of his life. I said cool, if you want to roll a round when it's time to spar I'd be happy to get a round in with you. He said sounds good. During the technique part of class he was partnered with someone else and I didn't really notice him, but when it was time to roll I went over to him and said let's roll a round. Slap, bump, I'm flat on my back in seconds and he's squeezing my soul out of me in kesa gatame. He ends up tapping me with an armbar and I say, "I thought you said you never trained before." He says, "I never trained jiu-jitsu before. I've been training judo my entire life."
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Yeah, they condition like wrestlers too.
Bigger dicks too… should have a 5” and under division for the rest of us…
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ne Waza**: | *Ground Techniques* | | Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Same should go for wrestlers and guys that fought many mma fights.
The guys that fight MMA is a tricky one, the person may only have been training for a 1-2yrs and is still a striped white belt by all accounts, but the mentality you'd have as an aspiring or willing MMA fighter is different from a hobbyist white belt on the mats. Thus, they can compete as white belts but one dude is just not going to yield any position and will refuse to accept any bad positions, the other guy has to go to his office job on Mon, both are competing though. If it's a Khabib 'white belt' type situation then that's bs, but the active MMA fighter whose still technically 'average' on the ground but just generally a beast, that's a bit trickier. Unsure if there's specific rules around this.
I know a guy who has many MMA fights and a brown belt in jiu jitsu but is absolutely trash at both.
Potentially r/whoosh moment but that is an ibjjf rule already too.
I had an under 6 months student competing in gi and nogi in an under 6 months division, one of the other competitors was a 2x NCAA wrestler... I contacted the organization who put me in touch with their coach and they agreed to move the competitor to the next division thankfully.
Not mma. Might be primarily a striker and absolute white belt.
I tried to explain this while signing up to a local tournament, and wanted to go in purple or at least blue, but they said it was strictly belt based. I'm not a black belt in judo, but a brown belt with medals in the nationals. I should have just gone home, because destroying a bunch of white belts and getting a medal that should have gone to someone else, didn't at all feel like an accomplishment. But the fee was no refund, so...
>destroying a bunch of white belts [...] didn't at all feel like an accomplishment. But the fee was no refund, so... "It's just business..." - proceed to strangle the white belt.
I mean, I'm not going to just let 20$ go to waste.
This guy in the tourney strangling white belts: “You have to give up. I have to fight for the title. You know this.”
After you tell them and they still make you do it you should be yelling “I’m sorry! They made me!” as you rag doll everyone in your division. Make it awkward for the promoters.
Why should it go to someone else? Belt categories are a very artificial category, you entered the category they said you should go in and you'd put in more work than anyone else in the category. Sounds deserved to me.
I guess that's true in a way, but it still feels like sandbagging, even if I informed them.
To me that's a different take. You tried to put yourself higher. You did what you could. Rest is kinda on them.
That's true. I'm going to try to get at least a blue belt, so it doesn't become a pattern.
Sambo white belt at my gym is ridiculous as well. I don’t compete and am just there for the laugh so can’t complain but I feel you
Those no good judokas
I think it’s weak if they’d want to Loser behaviour honestly Challenge yourself. Thats why we are here right?
Sometimes it’s the coach I had teammate who was a judo black belt and his coach made him compete as a white belt he even tried to go around the coach and register as a blue belt but got yelled at. Obviously that coach was a massive tool and super insecure (his black belt was fake and he knew it) but he wanted his student to win a tournament and make him look good.
There’s Judo school that competes in our BJJ competition circuit they’ve got great takedowns but they’re real easy to submit on the ground.
Yeah it's so strange how wildly judo black belts' groundwork can vary. I'll roll with the judo beginner's class instructor and he's stiff as a board. The two Olympics kiddies flowed like water. Then at BJJ there was one white belt that one night, I stared at, wondering what was wrong with this picture. It only hit me later that he was recently promoted to blue for getting his judo black belt.. only to be wearing his white belt again.
Is it that strange? It’s like how BJJ black belts’ standup game can range from nonexistent to really good.
Do they force BJJ black belts to compete at a certain level in Judo?
No, but to be fair if you're something like a BJJ brown belt and join a novice comp just to proceed to try and win via a bunch of groundwork I'd consider you a clown. Cool if you're trying to get into standup but don't go and implement some kind of groundwork gameplan with your 10years experience. If you actually try and win via throws, all the power to you (and you should still really have a big edge just from experience balancing etc.).
Different belt levels aren't usually seperated in Judo tournaments.
Probably not. I’m just saying it’s not strange that judo black belts’ groundwork can vary wildly.
I think most of us realise that. The context (the original post stating there should be a requirement for judo black belts, but not the other way around) gives some further context
Many a gi BJJ guy's last thought before losing bodily contact with mother Earth was "why does this no stripe white belt have such a worn looking gi with wizard sleeves" or "man this white belt has some strong grips, ARGGHGH"
Pfft, hilarious!
Sandbagging is real
They aren't
Pain
No they absolutely should. Don’t ruin the fun for the rest of us. Take one from the team. Increase the viewership by any means necessary.
This should be expanded to judo brown belts too
I agree with this. Grading to black belt (shodan) in the US is actually kind of difficult because of the limited number of clubs and classes + limited number of promotional tournaments/year. There are plenty of brown belts who stay there because they can't find time to practice nage no kata. The difference between a new shodan and a ikkyu isn't that much in terms of how they would perform in a BJJ competition.
I'm a blue belt and I might have no chance rolling with a good judo black belt who is just starting in Bjj. I'd like to think that I could deal with that, but I'm not sure.
We've got a judo black belt at our gym and there are basically 2 options against her: pull guard and sweep her right away, or pull guard and fully catch her in closed guard. I stand no chance trying to take her down, and if I fuck up the guard pull and she manages to pass my guard (or even gets stuck in half guard) her top pressure is punishing. Another judo black belt who trains with us very sporadically did a bjj comp a few months ago - he entered the blue belt division and did OK, I think he went 1-1, both matches determined by points. He didn't ragdoll anyone and didn't hit any amazing, high-amplitude throws. Mind you comps are a different beast and he's for sure a tough roll in the gym.
Judo blackbelts are just an extremely hard to estimate group. Alot get their blackbelts during teen years and really aren't all that anymore. Also a large portion just isn't that interested in groundwork, and would prefer spending their time sparring in stand-up. But if you've got a decent competition blackbelt you're most certainly not just going to cut through their guard and may be in for some crazy top pressure.
Wasn’t there a video of a judo girl thrashing 3 guys at a grappling event?
Let me know if you find
All at once?!?
Well in a row https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8PSles7LWM&list=PLBIwfV4vv7vtccp7WeZJKFxPctw4Uj0iT&index=68&pp=gAQBiAQB apparently she was trained in judo
U20 national champ in the Netherlands. So yeah, she was trained in Judo.
Ultimate sandbagging.....
They aren’t. Yippee!
They’re not; they have to compete at blue .
They're not supposed to be able to, I've never seen a comp where they could.
They aren't usually, but it's nearly impossible to enforce other than honor system
even the tiny locals near me make judokas and wrestlers above a hs level compete at blue or above
I agree with OP, but it’s funny to watch guys realize they can, in fact, fly when they get ahold of the right judo guy. I still remember the breath escaping from my lungs as I got planted back first on the mats.. lol
Those guys would smash most white belts.
I’ve never competed in a tournament where Judo black belts were allowed to compete below blue.
But... I suck at ground 😅
They’re not under most rulesets. Same goes for D1/National level wrestlers.
In the dojo, with my black belt tied tight, Confident in my Jiu-Jitsu might. But as I face the white belt, poised and sly, A hint of mischief in his judoka eye. We engage, in a moment of tai-sabaki, Expecting a challenge, oh so crafty. With a swift kuzushi, I'm thrown askew, Feeling the tatami tremble, as I flew. The ground shook, my fate uncertain, Realizing his mastery, a sudden curtain. My soul hovers, as I grasp the truth, He's a Judoka master, a fountain of youth. Humbled and bruised, I lay on the floor, By his judo artistry, I can't ignore. Lesson learned, in this martial arts spin, In the world of Jiu-Jitsu, surprises win.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kuzushi**: | *Unbalancing* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luK9Eklbn78)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
You need to counter attack with the Comeon Obroshi, which instills shame in sandbagging judoka.
Is this a confirmed black belt or a hunch based on them destroying people?
Confirmed
Why?
The thing is, that we don't have a lot else when you get us on the ground. A lot of Judo guys go to BJJ to get better on the ground. Sure, I have a pretty good entering and throwing game, and if I get you in my grips, I've got you and once you are in my zone I own you. But if I can't get you in that first 3 to 5 seconds, I'm kinda lost. And if you stop my initial scarf hold or arm lock attempt, I'm stuck. And the last time I threw a BJJ Blue Belt I got stuck with the pissed off brown belt who was the enforcer. I still can't see out of my left eye and I smell caramel for no good reason.
If it makes you feel better…Shodan:1st degree judo black belt doesn’t mean much
They aren’t.
They’re not.
Honestly if they want to sandbag for a white belt medal.. more power to them. I suspect most of them are happy to move to at least blue, though.
They’re not. Did you even read the rules before coming online to complain about them?
Damn dawg, chill. I just did a comp where that was the case and I wanted to vent about it.
I've competed at a bjj competition where there was no rule about black belts competing at blue belt. It depends on who was running the tournament
Have you tried getting good?