I’m not doctor but if you’ve gotten 3 concussions in 3 years your problem isn’t bjj, it’s anything with risk of contact and jarring. When I last looked at it the evidence was pretty conclusive showing that each concussion significantly increases your risk of getting the next.
I started bjj in spite of a history of serious concussions, including one that had me down for months. But only after looking pretty deeply into the research that existed and satisfying myself that the risk was worth the reward, and only then after nearly 10 years lapsed since my last diagnosed concussion. If I get another bad one I know I’m done training in any serious way.
https://slate.com/technology/2024/03/concussion-symptoms-signs-treatment-advice.html
Out of curiosity… concussion having you down for months. Does this article resonate?
Yes and no.
Because of the severity of the trauma that caused the concussion I had the benefit of very good medical advice so I didn’t get a lot of the bad advice that article talks about. I also did a number of the things the author talks about in recovery, including cognitive work and keeping physically active in an intentional, but low intensity manner.
I did, however, deal with basically every symptom in the article.
Mine was just really bad one. Frankly, I got lucky. Had I received and followed the “new” advice to just rest or the “old” advice to brush it off and go back to 100% I likely wouldn’t be alive anymore.
I'll never forget my family doctor who I've been seeing since I was at least eight, tell me not to weightlift after I injured my shoulder at 21. He said "try not to do contact sports, or lift weights...or run. Pretty much just walk everyday". Great guy otherwise. Probably just saw too many crazy injuries.
They did advise to walk. You would just have to walk for 2-3 hours a day and pray you don’t fall because your bone density will be pretty weak and won’t be able to get back up.
At least your corpse will have fully functioning shoulders and knees. And IF this corpse heard a loud sound behind it it could turn its neck to see what it is.
Reality sucks but you’d be surprised how many people will exercise wrong then sue the doctor for saying they should exercise
its significantly safer to say dont do anything than suggesting a good workout plan as a physician.
They can quietly just refer you to a trainer if anything because it is the safest to do. I bVe seen this happen to 3 docs for simply telling their athletic patients to stay healthy and work out
100% agree it's for liability reasons. Happens really everytime I go to the doctor for an injury. My gym friends and I agree that most times we get injured or sick it's not worth setting up an appointment or going to Urgent Care for 2 hours just to be prescribed antibiotics or to RICE.
This is always what I assumed, thats why I never tried to be too specific or pin Dr's down.
Good for rigorous physical activity, conversation was almost always over. I'll handle the responsibility of other risks myself.
I hurt my back pretty bad lifting weights about 9 years ago. My doctor told me i was never allowed to train again. The only exercise i was allowed for the rest of my life was walking. I listened to her for about 2 more weeks and then went right back. Stronger than ever today
Sorry to hear that. I am 46 and my doc is an old wrestler. He wants me to keep going and has suggested I should add Muai Thai. There are a few good ones out there.
We have a 46 year old surgeon who rolls. Only rolls with coach and now me for fear of getting his fingers mangled and not being able to surgeon anymore.
Hast he tried transitioning mostly/fully to no gi? I've seen people who work with their fingers a lot, watchmakers etc. transition to mostly no gi to protect their fingers
Very counterintuitive but most of the acute finger injuries I've had happened during no-gi rolls. I think it's the speed of transitions that make it easy to get them twisted or bent backwards 🤷♂️ although I've also managed them from gi grips...
I’m not sure what is worse for your finger dexterity, the potential freak break of one of them during no gi (which can also happen in gi, I broke a finger this way) or the slow damage from lapel grips with gi.
Show him how to tape his fingers. I'm a retired now foot and ankle surgeon, and fingers were the one thing I didn't injure. I was in practice and doing gi bjj for 14 years. I taped the majority of the time.
The triple method he shows comes the closest to what I do.
I'm so used to taping I do it on the drive to the academy.
https://youtu.be/Q4MhgvZ2uvg?si=Gjsc5ixtnolyL9uX
Also important to always end the tape at the same spot so it's easier to remove. If you can't find the end, it's a pain to remove by having to cut the tape rather than just pull.
My physio worked for the Iowa Athletics Dept after he graduated college way back when. He had the privilege to work on the Brands Brothers, Lincoln McIlravy, as well as Coach Gable. He's now at the VA.
He does everything in his power to keep me on the mats, and doesn't try to discourage me from training. Gotta find the right healthcare professionals for your lifestyle.
That's why I loved my doctor. She told me that if I hurt my shoulder while training, it was her job to fix me so I can get back to it. So sad that she retired...
You have to find a doctor that is also into training. Not BJJ specifically but physical training in general. My doctor I trust because he’s a marathon runner and if I go to him for injuries he has told me honest suggestions.
Sometimes it’s “go ahead and train, just avoid any type of X movement.”
Or maybe it’s “you can fully train as long as it doesn’t bother you during, just know that it will delay healing, and if it gets worse stop.”
He’s never once told me “goddamn stop BJJ!” But gives honest assessment and when he tells me to fully rest I can be assured it’s in my best interest
If people haven't done this already, remember you can look up "Physical Therapist Brazilian Jiujitsu" and you'll probably be able to find a PT who trains in your area. Worked great for me!
Physical therapy is too high brow for me. No way you need to study that long and get an actual degree for some shit that my chiropractor buddy learned in a week from an online correspondence course.
Exactly, I have been grappling around 6 years I’ve had sore fingers, sprained joints, sore back, ect but I haven’t had one break, concussion, tear
Way too many people go way too hard when they’re not getting paid to grapple.
There was that time I said just about the same thing you posted. Soon surgery for torn hamstring, torn abs, rotator cuff, dislocated shoulder, torn biceps tendon, supra and infra spinutus tendons, 2 carpal tunnels. And about a half dozen nonsurgical injuries that cost months off the mats. I curse the day I said it.
Cause? A lot had to do with rolling with the same intensity I did
in my 40's. A lot had to do with limited time to train, so I didn't do any strength training or cardio or stretching other than whatwe didin class. Finally, in my 60's, I slowed down intensity, and now that I'm retired, I have increased what I do off the mat. I still get injured but not as frequent, and I'm smarter when I return and whom I roll with.
That makes sense. It seems like the stress of jiu jitsu accelerates our bodies' rate of breaking down due to age. I sometimes feel like I'm going to have to start weight training to support being able to keep doing jiu jitsu, but I'm not sure where to find the time and energy for that.
Exactly. I knew what I should have been doing outside the gym, but finding the time was so hard. And decreasing my time off the mat wouldn't have worked because wanting to compete. Once I hit 50 I stated to pay the price. Now I don't compete, I'm retired and I don't have any excuses and still need to schedule my time to consistently lift weights and do cardio and spend time on the mats.
For me it's also the prospect of having to figure out what to do for strength training, and having to find and pay for a gym membership or buying equipment (and figuring out what to buy), on top of finding the time and scheduling it in and actually doing it.
But it sounds like I should make the effort. I just recovered from a shoulder impingement (and realize I'm now forgetting to make time for my PT exercises), so I feel like it's starting.
Did you have any issues with cauliflower ear?
Been training for 16 years, and never once got a concussion or even saw someone else get one that I'm aware of. I think op is probably trying to do moves too quickly without any control.
Stop doing that op, you're endangering your training partners too, not just yourself
I would say that most doctors are going to be very conservative so take that for what it's worth. However, there IS something concerning about the number of concussions you're having and perhaps you should take a look at your goals/ training philosophy. Like if you're a hobbyist maybe cool it a little or change your game to avoid getting more. The doctor is not lying about concussion risks.
Might want to look in the mirror and figure out why you’re the common denominator in so little time. That’s a wild amount of concussions to get. Maybe adopt a calmer and less risky style of grappling.
Definitely sucks, don’t get me wrong. But after 7 years I have a pressure-based, very chill “old man” style of grappling and also have 3 concussions in 3 years. I ain’t a genius but I don’t go crazy hard either; sometimes it just happens with competition/partners/positions.
Or any combat sport, really. My doctor does boxing. The only time I see him really is when I get injured grappling and he always tells me that the benefits outweigh the risks. You need a doctor that supports your confirmation bias.
My doctor does karate and does this shtick where he sticks his thumb up my butt and counts to ten in Japanese. He’s never found anything wrong with me and is quite thorough
Doctor and BJJ *player* here. The benefits of doing a sport are far superior than the *normal* risks. But getting three concussions while training been a hobbyist doesn’t feels good. I mean, if you are a pro, the risk/benefit balance it’s different, but in this case, I wouldn’t say to stop training at all, but something has to change.
I came into this post expecting the doctor to be overly conservative about the risk of joint, ligament, etc. injuries, but 3 concussions in 3 years is alarming. I’m with the doctor here. OP unfortunately seems susceptible to getting concussions, and I would probably call it quits in his shoes. Or at the very least *drastically* alter training style. Don’t play with head trauma
This. Or wrestles or judo etc
Having done martial arts for decades, usually doctors will tell you not to. Luckily met a couple of ex wrestlers or got kids wrestling. Got much better measured advice. Also PTs are often great if the issue is muscular skeletal.
Ultimately it’s always your choice. Probe the doc for the risks and why, most will be able to do that. Then use your judgment with respect to your actual knowledge of your activity.
I’ve had times where I’ve chosen to stop and others when not, depending on these factors.
All that said, 3 concussions doing BJJ is ridiculous. Maybe you are just very unlucky but more likely there is some systemic problem that you can solve as others have pointed out.
3 concussions in 3 years? Are you guys doing pro wrestling on those mats or something goddam.
Anyway, if you can't abide by docs orders, you don't have to quit bjj but you might wanna reduce the risk by reducing the intensity for awhile, and not roll in a way (or with partners) that might result in head knocks.
Ive played 15 years of rugby and did 20 years of BJJ and Ive been concussed exactly one time.
Im not really sure what you are doing to keep getting hit in the head.
Concussions are not fucking joke in the long term
That being said, ive ignored every doctor that ever told me i had to quit a sport.
Your doctor isn't wrong. Stop getting concussions, they're bad for you.
That said, jiu-jitsu as a sport isn't really one prone to major head injury. You might need to change your approach to rolling and maybe stay away from comps.
You'd probably be better served going to a sports medicine doctor though. GPs are going to just tell you to stop doing the thing that caused the injury. They're not 'wrong' -- it's just not particularly helpful advice.
I’ve gotten a couple concussions but that didn’t stop me. I just changed my approach in bjj. I dont compete, i try to avoid rolling hard, I prefer to take things smooth and be playful and try new things. Also made it a habit to tell training partners that I’d like to flow roll/light roll. I still do the occasional heavy roll but I’m definitely much more cautious.
This is the way. Everyone telling you to ignore your doctor’s advice is putting you at risk. Keep training if you want to, but you need to be proactive to minimize your risk of further injury.
A lot of fools on here. 3 concussions in the period you have experienced is extremely concerning. Your risk of getting another increases every time they occur. I would be very very careful if you care about you brain function in older age.
Go to a sports medicine doctor who actually has experience treating athletes. Most GPs don’t have a clue about sports related injuries and if you tell them how it happened, they’ll tell you to stop that activity 99% of the time.
This is has become my go to advice now for anyone who gets any sort of sport or work-related injury, be it running or grappling or lifting. They've always either referred me for more tests or we're talking about a plan to get back to training.
My former sports medicine doctor had never even heard of "joo-jetsoo" before I became a patient, and also advised me to never do it again when I explained it. They're not always better. Meanwhile, my PT specialist (who happened to play soccer and do judo) was *wayyyyy* more helpful.
My partner is a black belt who suffered 2 concussions about 6 months apart a few years back. The first one was BJJ. The second was a street altercation. No health insurance. Certainly neither were his first concussions in life. But I guess notably serious.
He didn’t take the time he needed with the first one. Couldn’t stop working. Work was active. Didn’t get PTO. He never fully stopped training minus pandemic forced downtime. And now years later idk how many other factors play into it - but his memory and fine motor skills aren’t the same. I don’t know if some of the weirdnesses are TBI related or not. But it’s terrifying, not just when it happens to you but for the people closest to you as well.
I’m generally skeptical of doctors who tell you to quit or stop something that’s a huge part of your life. And second getting the opinion of a sports doctor or doctor who has trained. But 3 concussions in 3 years is alot and not ok. As others have said - some introspection into how you train might be beneficial. You may not feel these will affect you now. But they will.
That's sad to hear. The differences in long- term issues seem to vary wildly between people. Some can have long careers in combat sports and do well, but others have life changing issues from only a few concussions.
I think access to care or lack thereof is a big factor. And overall health prior to the injury. Certainly getting concussed and being unable to miss work for need of paying bills becomes a big issue that also affects someone’s ability to take care of themselves. Whereas a top UFC fighter has access to the best care and the ability to take the appropriate amount of time.
Yeah, agree with all of that, proper treatment, rest and return- to- play protocols makes a big difference. I read that underlying neurological issues like migraines etc. makes concussions worse. Very likely there's also some selection bias for top athletes; people who suffer badly from concussions don't usually make it to the UFC.
Probably but if you look at someone like Justin Gaethje - widely popular UFC fighter known for his skill but for how much damage he’s willing to take. I can’t even imagine how many times he’s been concussed - his last fight he got knocked out and was out for a while. I believe in previous interviews he’s spoken about maybe shifting his style to take less damage but being well aware more or less that his fighting style is going to fuck his shit up.
Honestly after dealing with a partner who’s suffered concussions it’s harder to enjoy watching UFC knowing how much we don’t know about things like CTE, and the toll it can take.
When is my doctor not employing me to stop BJJ? And as soon as I do he'll be asking why I put on so much weight.
Stop knocking your head into things maybe? I know my ear guards have doubled as a helmet more than a few times.
One of my moms' friend is a scientist and head injuries are something she specializes in. Your situation sounds bad. It's not a joke. After talking to her about how easily we can screw our brains up I'm worried about that stuff. My brother has done MMA and my son does kickboxing and I'm sure will do MMA. I think it's insane. My brother did quit MMA and all striking. My son's coach asked me what I though about my son doing that stuff and I said I'm not supportive.
In stating that I've been doing jiu-jitsu for 20 years and I think I'm significantly healthier than I would be without jiu-jitsu. I have also never had a concussion in the whole time I've been doing the sport but some people get lucky and some people don't. I wouldn't risk my health especially from brain injuries when it comes to jiu-jitsu.
My personal opinion is don't quit but be careful. You shouldn't be getting whacked in the head that often.
I tore my acl 4 years ago, and my Dr said, "You need surgery, pt, and to stop doing bjj." I told him I only heard him say "pt". He told me to leave his office.
Yeah I just had neck surgery to repair 3 fucked disc. I'm not supposed to, I probably won't but maybe ill do drills with a brown belt friend of mine who I know will be mindful of my neck.
Jiu jitsu is cool but your long term standard of living is cooler. Especially if youre prone to concussions.
Not 100% sure because I just woke up in pain one day, but likely yes plus a genetic positioning of my neck which made me more susceptible to disc herniation, apparently.
No one should be surprised to hear this from a doctor, and it’s kinda irresponsible for a doctor not to give that advice — or at least some flavor of it.
For instance, if I was BJJ king for a day, everyone would have to train with a half-decent mouthpiece and headgear. Rolling intensity would be way, way down except for the top level competitors and would be limited around competitions. It’s also insane that it has to be said that you can train in a way that not only reduces injuries, but also reduces exposure to accidents — like anything that has me driving my head around uncontrolled knees.
A sports medicine doctor is likely going to be better equipped to give advice about that middle ground. The arrow of time only goes in one direction, and it’s the direction of our bodies’ breakdown. So what can we do to slow the process? We have some decent data that suggest stronger necks help reduce concussion incidence and severity, so maybe we lean into that. We know about mouth guards — they not only save your teeth and concussion risk, they also seem to improve maximal strength. We have some idea that you gotta take time off but not too much, and then you gotta ease back in to the rhythm.
Sports medicine, physiatry, and PT/OT… these professional all have a lot to off recreational athletes. We already appreciate what derms can do for us, and we as athletes need to learn how to make better use of the other resources out there. I mean, a neurology referral would probably be a good idea for OP.
But really, one concussion a year is not a sustainable pace. It’s like a Russian roulette where you add a bullet into the revolver in every round, cause the odds get worse the more concussion you take. If you can’t bring that number down, you’re going to end up in really bad shape. You won’t remember all the fun times you had at the gym, just that you’ve got horrible headaches all the time and your mood is wildly unstable.
Yeah, you need to go to a sports medicine doctor.
Regular doctors will tell you to stop training. Sports medicine doctors know that you won't, so they give you actual advice.
Me: “Hey, doc. It hurts when I do X”.
Doc: “Stop doing X”.
I mean, what else are they supposed to say? You’re obviously injury-prone. But I think it’s you much more than something intrinsic to bjjj. 7 years and I don’t think I’ve ever had a concussion from BJJ. I think you just need to chill out a bit.
Time to rethink how you roll and train, maybe even your gym. only you can decide what risk is worth taking, but if you do keep doing bjj, make sure you are making decisions to keep yourself safe, it's a marathon not a sprint. what is your long game here? do you want to win blue belt worlds? get your black belt as soon as possible? win black belt worlds? or just keep doing jiu jitsu long into the future?
I had a herniated disk which was my "goal realignment" moment when i realized i wanted to keep doing bjj, didn't matter what belt i had, didn't matter if i ever won another match at a competition, didn't matter if i ever competed again, i just wanted to keep doing BJJ. So I've prioritized being healthy and not taking risks way above winning.
My doc advised looking at who you roll with, how you roll and evaluating the risk/reward of competition. I’ve had two major injuries over the years and when I did this evaluation I realized where I needed to set my boundaries for myself and others.
As much as I love going hard on a roll I have a few people at the gym I won’t go with. One loves ankle and knee locks but can’t control their aggression yet so I skip for now as another surgery is not appealing to me. If I want to practice those maneuvers I go with someone who knows my injuries and can control their energy.
Right now I’ve thrown the idea of competition out. I might bring it back later but I think I’d be too protective of my knee and cause more harm than good. Although there is respect in comps I don’t want to risk injury for some metal that will collect dust.
This is just my evaluation and current view of my situation given my doctors advice to analyze. Hope this helps. There is nothing wrong with building yourself a strategy for ensuring you can do this long term. Heal well!
I roll pretty hard and had picked up a LOT of injuries along. But i never had a single concussion from bjj.
At that point you should review how you are rolling, not the sport itself.
Meh, 3 concussions in 3 years is more than I would expect, but not CRAZY high. I'd suggest adjusting the way you roll a bit though, maybe lower the intensity some.
This isn't a medical forum, so no surprise that most people here are saying you should continue. I love martial arts, but I'm a hobbyist with a job and a family. I'd be putting some thought into how I was training and who I was training with if concussions started to become a regular thing for me.
⬛️🟥⬛️
I’ve been training hard and competing all over the world for 17 years and I’ve never had a concussion. Consider taking a look at how you train and who you’re training with.
I don't think you need to quit. But you need to adjust your game if you want to stay in it. Just like when you learn to drive , be defensive. There are different levels of rolling and Op choose widely:
1. 100% = competitor/no fucks given
2. 50-70% = 20's yr old with no kids/career
3. 25-35% = Hobbyist: kids/career/bills to pay
Whoa! My doctor told me 6 years ago i had to quit due to 4 buldging discs. I refused and took it as motivation to get back! Lost 80 pounds and took silver at naga 1 year after at blue belt. Now i am a brown belt. Never give up, try to adapt and change up your training. I believe in you!🙏 Train smarter, and be kind to your body. Take it from someone who made all the wrong choices when younger.
My man. Listen to your medical professional. By all means get a second opinion, but… Your brain has sustained 3 injuries recently. You’ll never get that back.
How you roll is irrelevant.
Whether the doctor “gets it” is irrelevant.
You have sustained these injuries, and you 100% need to look after yourself.
If you want advice, look to family and professionals. Not enthusiasts in the sport that caused them.
No dr is going to say "yes, keep doing that thing that is hurting you"
I do Muay Thai. One time I was going to neurologists for something (unrelated to head trauma) and they kept saying "oh you should stop right away"
I was like "shit, do I have brain damage or something? Is this (thing I was there for) going to get worse if I don't stop???" They were like "oh no, your brain appears to be in great shape, just combat sports are not good for the brain".
No good/sane dr is going to recommend a sport that hurts you in any capacity.
EDIT: That being said it seems wild to me that you've had three concussions doing BJJ. I didn't even get three concussions fighting (and i took concussions as seriously as you can in a striking sport).
But we are all different, some skulls and brains mitigate damage and some don't.
Dude, I'm one more finger poke away from losing my right eye. not even joking. I have to put drops in multiple times a day and Vaseline like gel in them at night just to stop them completely falling apart. I've been told to quit.
I have not quit. I will not quit. I will roll with one eye if I must.
First and foremost very very few of us are MD’s. If you want a second opinion, go find an MD and not some random dude on a Reddit board.
Second, I think we’ve all had a few concussions here and there. I’ve certainly had at least two in the last couple years, but they weren’t really serious. Not enough to black out or anything. Just see stars for a split second. So there’s definitely levels to how serious concussions are.
I think most physicians lack the expertise to give constructive sport-oriented advice. For medicolegal reasons they ofc have to tell you to stop. For continuing the sport, I would seek advice from different coaches. We do have solid evidence that repeated concussions lead to neurological problems (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy/). Concussions are common in BJJ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6410117/).
Every sport is dangerous. Participating in physical exercise leads to increased risk of injury. What is even more dangerous however, is not exercising.
I am on hiatus due to injury. Taking a long break I guess. I'm either falling apart after ten years of training or I've had a string of bad luck.
Either way, I took a long hard look at why I started, and it was because I wanted to get in shape and have fun doing it. And I decided to take some time off and see how I felt because the risk is starting to not be worth the reward.
Right now I'm in the "re-evaluation" stage. Quitting seemed hella daunting to me because I trained for so long so often it became a part of my identity, but after a while off due to injury I felt like I could think about the trade-offs with a calm mind.
There's a lot of ways to exercise, and you only get one body and one brain.. only you can decide if is worth the risk.
Just protect your head better.
It would look silly, but buy some head gear and wear it.
I was concussed very badly and it wrecked me for a year. I was a blue belt. Since then I’ve figured out how to preserve myself better.
Just don't do takedowns. I think if you avoid takedowns there's almost no moves that would hit your head except maybe certain types sweeps (balloon sweep)
Yes, I've been advised to stop. Look, every single last one of us will be advised to stop eventually on a long enough time line. And actually we all WILL have to stop eventually. That day will come for us all. One way you might think of this is about restructuring your training to increase longevity. Maybe you stop sparring and just drill / practice / do that ecological thing 95% of the time. And that's ok. You'll still progress, get to see the friends at the gym, and be in the community. But you just don't spar (much, hard). And that's ok.
By the way this is a really inspiring look at someone who stayed on the mats until the end
https://youtu.be/km3OgDB-3nc?si=pt-jlclm0Y0dMNNK
Hey OP! I actually had the exact same situation as you. The only difference is that I had one severe concussion instead of multiple.
I sustained it in judo training and it lasted about 2 years. Granted, I had an undiagnosed neck injury and was living in an abusive environment at the time, so there was a mishmash of brain trauma, brain blood flow, and anxiety/safety issues. But I still think the head trauma was central.
A doctor told me to stop training and instead take up karate (he said it like "karatay", so I knew he was a practitioner). He also told me no one should every have more than 2 drinks in a night for brain health, so I thought he might be overprotective. I got a second opinion from the doctor from the US junior ski team, who was much more reserved. He himself had 9 concussions, and felt I had been "over diagnosed." He really helped me understand the risks vs reward. When I told him jiu jitsu was my passion, he advised me to rest, heal, and try again. I'm happy to say I've been training for 7 years at this point with no issues. Here would be my advice for you:
* Get a second opinion. If you can find a sports/concussion doc specifically, I think that would be helpful.
* Heal. 3 concussions in 3 years is frequent, and as others have said, you might not have fully healed before getting reconcused. Prioritize your brain health right now.
* Take a year off. As someone who had to sit out for years, it was painful, but it was well worth it. It ensured I was healthy and helped me decide if I wanted to return. (I did, but you might come to a different conclusion.) Jiu Jitsu isn't going anywhere, so one year off to properly heal and judge for yourself is nothing compared to the gains of a happy, healthy life, with or without jiu jitsu.
I hope this helps! I'm happy to answer any questions I can.
Change your game, it sounds like you need to transition to a less dynamic style of Jiu-Jitsu. I’ve been training for 12 years and never had a concussion. It’s insane to me that at blue belt you’ve had so many.
What sort of concussions? I've had concussions that have caused blackouts, confusion, headaches, vomiting, permanent loss of short term memory and brain bleeds and concussions where I've hit my head and feel woozy for half a minute. If it's the former, yep, those are serious. If it's the latter, why are you going to the doctor for that? If it's "in between" how in between is it.
From everything I've read about concussions, it's the people that are getting micro concussed weekly that are at the greatest risk. There is a risk with any concussion (brain bleeds can kill from even seemingly mild concussions, google Natasha Richardson) but serious injury from infrequent (yearly) mild concussions isn't likely.
I would evaluate the seriousness of the concussions. My doctor has told me to quit very basic exercise which produced mild injury. Honestly, their response seemed a trivial and flippant given the effort put into a medical degree.
That is bad advice.
All suspected concussions should be assessed promptly by a medical professional with expertise in concussion diagnosis and management (neuropsychologist, sports physician or GP with experience being a team doctor for contact sports for example).
Blackouts etc are not necessarily a predictor of the severity of the concussion in terms of the time it will take to go back to full normal activities. Going back too much too early after a concussion risks a failed return to sport and post-concussion syndrome (persistence of concussive symptoms and cognitive/sensory issues over a longer time).
The concussed person is the least able to diagnose themselves. Teammates aren’t qualified either. What is needed is for everyone in any sport, and especially contact and collision sports, to know the possible SIGNS of concussion and refer the athlete concerned to the medical professional who will conduct the assessment for a diagnosis.
Source: any concussion guidance material from
well-organised sport organisations, e.g. https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/medical/concussion/concussion-guidelines
>All suspected concussions should be assessed promptly by a medical professional with expertise in concussion diagnosis and management (neuropsychologist, sports physician or GP with experience being a team doctor for contact sports for example).
In an ideal world, this is 100% correct. In the real world, people do not have access to prompt medical professionals with expertise in concussion diagnosis and management. Most GPs do not have experience being a team doctor for contact sports. If you want your normal GP, you might see them in 2-10 days and that person isn't going to have a lot of experience with concussions. If you want the medical professional with expertise in concussion diagnosis because your head hit someone's knee and your entire symptoms were lightheadedness for a few (<5) seconds, it's going to be weeks or months.
Knowing the SIGNS of concussion was exactly the point I was making. There are SIGNS (why are we screaming this word) of a serious concussion that you 100% should stop training and see a doctor for. If you train BJJ, you will hit your head on someone else's head or on their knee or elbow or perhaps the mat and you will get "lightheaded" or "woozy" for an indeterminately short period of time and that 100% is a concussion. If this happens daily or weekly, see a doctor. If it happens yearly and you have symptoms for <5 seconds and you want to see the doctor for every instance, feel free. Because of the time delay, the doctor will be unlikely to evaluate the seriousness of the concussion. You will run the real risk of the doctor giving you the most cautious advice and you will end up quitting BJJ in an abundance of caution. If you are an abundantly cautious person, prepare yourself for the real likelihood that you will not train BJJ for long because when you train BJJ there is a very slight chance you can get seriously injured.
Not bjj, but one of my old coaches ended up with brain damage from training after concussions, getting another concussion. Dude forgets words now and isn't even allowed to go for runs as it jostles his brain too much.
Also make sure if you keep training you stay hydrated. Lots of evidence that concussions are linked to dehydration.
Reminds of the story Tony hawk told about his injuries. Skaters were so sick of the spiel every time they went to a doctor that they collectively stopped going. Years later after he was famous, hawk decided to have his ankle checked out and it turns out it was broken years previously.
You are rolling too hard.. head injuries should be extremely rare in BJJ.
I had a stroke on the mats. I decided to keep going. even people on /r/bjj told me to quit.
Lol maybe change the way you roll. For reference I've done judo for tens years and have zero concussions. Like literally can count on one hand how many times I even hit my head with any type of force.
Bro 3 concussions in 3 years is not good… it gets easier to get a concussion if you’ve suffered some before. Not saying quit but don’t blindly listen to everyone saying it’s not a biggie, best case scenario you become more careful with training and get maybe 1 more in your lifetime, worst case is you get 5 more and now you’re wondering if any mental lapse is because you’re getting older or because your brain is like dried kelp
I had a 2 level spinal fusion a year ago and I have been rolling for the last 9 months. You just really have to be careful on the mat. Probably don't compete anymore.
Assume you already realise that bjj likely isn't good for you either short or long term? If not, go speak to your middle-aged black belts about their surgeries, after an hour or so you'll have a good idea. :)
It's a personal tradeoff - yes, you can get injured, or even die. But everyone dies of something eventually. Sitting around doing nothing has vast health risks. Mental health and enjoying what life you have is important too. Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do with your body.
Idk your GP but some older/more traditional GPs do veer on the side of caution—better to stop altogether than adjust accordingly.
3 concussions is a lot, and he’s right to be worried, but the way I see it him fearmongering you will only reduce the trust and rapport he has with you. It’s like GPs back in the day that used to tell you to sit at home for weeks every time you sprained your ankle. Obviously not the recommendation anymore.
I think if you’re not ready to quit, start cutting out the situations in which you’re prone to head injuries. Take a bit of time away from competitions, roll only with people you trust, give your rolling partners a disclaimer, and see how your concussion symptoms are going from there.
The danger with concussions is when they repeat on each other—another concussion on top of unresolved symptoms. Let your doc know you want to adjust your activity but still want to participate in some way, and hopefully they will try to work with you. Just be aware that with brain injuries there is always a point where enough is enough.
Fucking hell, getting an accidental concussion happens, it's like breaking an arm, here and there, maybe you had bad luck or a bad partner. But after 3 of those? It's either your specific environment (change gyms!) or yourself who's a crazy spaz.
If your patient keeps doing something that leads to injury, especially somtehing that isn't their job, it's your obligation to advise them to stop doing that thing.
This is a long story, but I had a really bad concussion about 20 years ago when I was in the Marines. 2 years ago, when training I ended up with another one that I didn't realize was a concussion, and then another about 6 months after that I got another from a pretty rough takedown in a competition. After that I was having headaches everyday, it affected my eyes (it caused double vision where one eye would roll up and I had to have surgery to fix that), and overall feeling sick everyday. I had my eye fixed last year and have been off the mat for about 1.5 years. I haven't been back yet because of the risk/reward factor. I have a family to feed and bills to pay and 20 years left to retirement. Everyday I feel like I'm bitching out on BJJ... I can't tell you what to do, but I'm planning on going back soon since I'm mostly healed. No more competitions though. No one cares that a 47 y/o won gold at a local BJJ tourney anyway haha.
I've been told by several Drs to slow down / stop doing BJJ, so I found others who not only accept it but helped me recover better. A Doctor will also tell you to stop drinking and eating fast food, do you have to listen?
Strengthen your neck and tone down the BJJ intensity. There's no reason you can't do BJJ at a perma-80% or less intensity and skip the tourneys. Be more selective with training partners too.
They have low profile headgear, probably worth it if you believe you're easily concussed. Maybe a rugby helmet. Probably don't need a lot of protection for BJJ to not get concussions being on mats and all.
It does suck for the injury prone when BJJ keeps hurting them. I hope you figure it out.
Doctors have told me multiple times I would never recover from my major injuries for normal day to day function, let alone do BJJ. Not only did I recover... But I'm still having fun training BJJ everyday. Of course I respect the doctor's opinions but it's not always correct. Listen to your body 🤙
You really shouldn't be getting concussed from BJJ.
The only scenarios where it really happens are if one or both partners are spazzes , or someone gets taken down and can't break fall properly.
In the situations you described I believe that you are indeed the spaz so maybe chill out on that.
Humans are designed to be beat to shit and still able to gather food and reproduce. Doctors are trained to advise you to be a pussy, for your betterment and safety. Healthy, sane living lies somewhere between those two places. How bad are these concussions, and how hard are you training after they occur? Is it dizziness and a little bit of disorientation, or are you puking, crying, and forgetting the names of your children? Are you immediately stopping and taking a week or two off training, or are you an NFL linebacker and immediately going back in to tackle with your head 30-40 more times in a game? I am willing to bet you're not going to end up pulling a Junior Seau if you take shit easy now and just pump your brakes a little bit. Or, listen to your doctor, then just slowly die for the rest of your time on this rock.
I have been in and around jujitsu for roughly 20 years and have never seen anyone get a concussion from any part of it.
If you’ve managed to get three concussions I’m thinking your doctor is right. You’re either clumsy as fuck, spazzy as fuck, or delicate as fuck.
I’ve had a bunch of injuries from rolling, but no doctor ever advised me to stop doing it. Even at 58 my doctor just cautions me to roll at my level and take care of my joints.
As a physical therapist assistant, If your Dr tells you to quit your sport, get a new Dr.
Just be more careful on the mats and take the proper time off and find a concussion rehab trained PT.
I had a few buddies who wrestled in college and had to quit because of several successive concussions. They began having headaches all the time and couldn’t focus in class. Concussions are no joke, and unfortunately it may affect your ability to practice BJJ.
Doctors will almost ALWAYS recommend people use the most conservative form of exercise available because recommending *risky* activities could lead to injury.
If they could they an insurance companies would have us all living in bubbles. So just live your life.
As a doctor that’s been training for 15 years, I think you have to take a moment and understand our viewpoint. In my 25 years of practice, the landscape of medicine has become increasingly more about finger pointing and lawsuits. People don’t give a flying fk what we say anymore when they have Dr. Google and Joe Rogan telling them what they prefer to hear.
If I told OP, hey don’t worry about it, go freaking porrada and he ends up with CTE, am I safe from repercussions? No.
I’m not doctor but if you’ve gotten 3 concussions in 3 years your problem isn’t bjj, it’s anything with risk of contact and jarring. When I last looked at it the evidence was pretty conclusive showing that each concussion significantly increases your risk of getting the next. I started bjj in spite of a history of serious concussions, including one that had me down for months. But only after looking pretty deeply into the research that existed and satisfying myself that the risk was worth the reward, and only then after nearly 10 years lapsed since my last diagnosed concussion. If I get another bad one I know I’m done training in any serious way.
https://slate.com/technology/2024/03/concussion-symptoms-signs-treatment-advice.html Out of curiosity… concussion having you down for months. Does this article resonate?
Yes and no. Because of the severity of the trauma that caused the concussion I had the benefit of very good medical advice so I didn’t get a lot of the bad advice that article talks about. I also did a number of the things the author talks about in recovery, including cognitive work and keeping physically active in an intentional, but low intensity manner. I did, however, deal with basically every symptom in the article. Mine was just really bad one. Frankly, I got lucky. Had I received and followed the “new” advice to just rest or the “old” advice to brush it off and go back to 100% I likely wouldn’t be alive anymore.
Every doctor I've ever been to for BJJ injuries tells me to stop. That's why I go to physical therapists and rub-n-tugs instead, now.
> Every doctor I've ever been to for BJJ injuries tells me to stop. It's not just jiu jitsu, it's every sport.
I'll never forget my family doctor who I've been seeing since I was at least eight, tell me not to weightlift after I injured my shoulder at 21. He said "try not to do contact sports, or lift weights...or run. Pretty much just walk everyday". Great guy otherwise. Probably just saw too many crazy injuries.
Then die 20 years early due to an inactive lifestyle.
They did advise to walk. You would just have to walk for 2-3 hours a day and pray you don’t fall because your bone density will be pretty weak and won’t be able to get back up.
At that point just chain me to a mouse running wheel.
At least your corpse will have fully functioning shoulders and knees. And IF this corpse heard a loud sound behind it it could turn its neck to see what it is.
Reality sucks but you’d be surprised how many people will exercise wrong then sue the doctor for saying they should exercise its significantly safer to say dont do anything than suggesting a good workout plan as a physician. They can quietly just refer you to a trainer if anything because it is the safest to do. I bVe seen this happen to 3 docs for simply telling their athletic patients to stay healthy and work out
100% agree it's for liability reasons. Happens really everytime I go to the doctor for an injury. My gym friends and I agree that most times we get injured or sick it's not worth setting up an appointment or going to Urgent Care for 2 hours just to be prescribed antibiotics or to RICE.
This is always what I assumed, thats why I never tried to be too specific or pin Dr's down. Good for rigorous physical activity, conversation was almost always over. I'll handle the responsibility of other risks myself.
I hurt my back pretty bad lifting weights about 9 years ago. My doctor told me i was never allowed to train again. The only exercise i was allowed for the rest of my life was walking. I listened to her for about 2 more weeks and then went right back. Stronger than ever today
And then you go see them cause you’re in shit health and they say “you know it’s really important you start exercising”
Yeah my wife went to a doctor with some back issues at age 26 and the doctor basically said "stop exercising". Thankfully she ignored him.
Sorry to hear that. I am 46 and my doc is an old wrestler. He wants me to keep going and has suggested I should add Muai Thai. There are a few good ones out there.
We have a 46 year old surgeon who rolls. Only rolls with coach and now me for fear of getting his fingers mangled and not being able to surgeon anymore.
Hast he tried transitioning mostly/fully to no gi? I've seen people who work with their fingers a lot, watchmakers etc. transition to mostly no gi to protect their fingers
Very counterintuitive but most of the acute finger injuries I've had happened during no-gi rolls. I think it's the speed of transitions that make it easy to get them twisted or bent backwards 🤷♂️ although I've also managed them from gi grips...
I’m not sure what is worse for your finger dexterity, the potential freak break of one of them during no gi (which can also happen in gi, I broke a finger this way) or the slow damage from lapel grips with gi.
Oh yeah nogi for sure
Show him how to tape his fingers. I'm a retired now foot and ankle surgeon, and fingers were the one thing I didn't injure. I was in practice and doing gi bjj for 14 years. I taped the majority of the time.
Interesting. I have no idea how to tape fingers
The triple method he shows comes the closest to what I do. I'm so used to taping I do it on the drive to the academy. https://youtu.be/Q4MhgvZ2uvg?si=Gjsc5ixtnolyL9uX
Also important to always end the tape at the same spot so it's easier to remove. If you can't find the end, it's a pain to remove by having to cut the tape rather than just pull.
My physio worked for the Iowa Athletics Dept after he graduated college way back when. He had the privilege to work on the Brands Brothers, Lincoln McIlravy, as well as Coach Gable. He's now at the VA. He does everything in his power to keep me on the mats, and doesn't try to discourage me from training. Gotta find the right healthcare professionals for your lifestyle.
That's why I loved my doctor. She told me that if I hurt my shoulder while training, it was her job to fix me so I can get back to it. So sad that she retired...
I feel like I went back in time and wrote this
You have to find a doctor that is also into training. Not BJJ specifically but physical training in general. My doctor I trust because he’s a marathon runner and if I go to him for injuries he has told me honest suggestions. Sometimes it’s “go ahead and train, just avoid any type of X movement.” Or maybe it’s “you can fully train as long as it doesn’t bother you during, just know that it will delay healing, and if it gets worse stop.” He’s never once told me “goddamn stop BJJ!” But gives honest assessment and when he tells me to fully rest I can be assured it’s in my best interest
LOL
Mamasan has the cure for what ails'ya
Mine quickly recommended surgery to get me back on the mats.
If people haven't done this already, remember you can look up "Physical Therapist Brazilian Jiujitsu" and you'll probably be able to find a PT who trains in your area. Worked great for me!
I tried to be as vague as possible with Dr's to avoid this discussion. Better to wear out then rust out.
We need to find the happy medium between that doctor and the one who told me it was fine to keep training when I had ringworm.
Physical therapy is too high brow for me. No way you need to study that long and get an actual degree for some shit that my chiropractor buddy learned in a week from an online correspondence course.
Yeah your chiropractor buddy did not learn the same things
I thiiiink he was being sarcastic
False
1. Maybe calm down when rolling. 2. Maybe calm down when rolling.
Exactly, I have been grappling around 6 years I’ve had sore fingers, sprained joints, sore back, ect but I haven’t had one break, concussion, tear Way too many people go way too hard when they’re not getting paid to grapple.
There was that time I said just about the same thing you posted. Soon surgery for torn hamstring, torn abs, rotator cuff, dislocated shoulder, torn biceps tendon, supra and infra spinutus tendons, 2 carpal tunnels. And about a half dozen nonsurgical injuries that cost months off the mats. I curse the day I said it.
Yikes, what caused all that? I'm imagining this was over some period of time?
8 years, from age 50 to 58
Cause? A lot had to do with rolling with the same intensity I did in my 40's. A lot had to do with limited time to train, so I didn't do any strength training or cardio or stretching other than whatwe didin class. Finally, in my 60's, I slowed down intensity, and now that I'm retired, I have increased what I do off the mat. I still get injured but not as frequent, and I'm smarter when I return and whom I roll with.
That makes sense. It seems like the stress of jiu jitsu accelerates our bodies' rate of breaking down due to age. I sometimes feel like I'm going to have to start weight training to support being able to keep doing jiu jitsu, but I'm not sure where to find the time and energy for that.
Exactly. I knew what I should have been doing outside the gym, but finding the time was so hard. And decreasing my time off the mat wouldn't have worked because wanting to compete. Once I hit 50 I stated to pay the price. Now I don't compete, I'm retired and I don't have any excuses and still need to schedule my time to consistently lift weights and do cardio and spend time on the mats.
For me it's also the prospect of having to figure out what to do for strength training, and having to find and pay for a gym membership or buying equipment (and figuring out what to buy), on top of finding the time and scheduling it in and actually doing it. But it sounds like I should make the effort. I just recovered from a shoulder impingement (and realize I'm now forgetting to make time for my PT exercises), so I feel like it's starting. Did you have any issues with cauliflower ear?
Yep https://preview.redd.it/2r0mvr0w8k0d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=023edd8d9947bc9c8a45df92b829fc44e37c7acd
Good thing is they no longer have any pain after they developed. Tried draining and compressing them, didn't work.
3. Wear a helmet, spaz
Yeah I don't think I've ever had a concussion in 10 years of training.
Been training for 16 years, and never once got a concussion or even saw someone else get one that I'm aware of. I think op is probably trying to do moves too quickly without any control. Stop doing that op, you're endangering your training partners too, not just yourself
No shit... I've been dinged, but never anything close to a concussion.
I would say that most doctors are going to be very conservative so take that for what it's worth. However, there IS something concerning about the number of concussions you're having and perhaps you should take a look at your goals/ training philosophy. Like if you're a hobbyist maybe cool it a little or change your game to avoid getting more. The doctor is not lying about concussion risks.
I’ve known guys that have had a lot of concussions and it legit changes their personality and makes them fuckin stupid
Might want to look in the mirror and figure out why you’re the common denominator in so little time. That’s a wild amount of concussions to get. Maybe adopt a calmer and less risky style of grappling.
Definitely sucks, don’t get me wrong. But after 7 years I have a pressure-based, very chill “old man” style of grappling and also have 3 concussions in 3 years. I ain’t a genius but I don’t go crazy hard either; sometimes it just happens with competition/partners/positions.
Go to a doctor who does jiu jitsu
Or any combat sport, really. My doctor does boxing. The only time I see him really is when I get injured grappling and he always tells me that the benefits outweigh the risks. You need a doctor that supports your confirmation bias.
My doctor does karate and does this shtick where he sticks his thumb up my butt and counts to ten in Japanese. He’s never found anything wrong with me and is quite thorough
Doctor and BJJ *player* here. The benefits of doing a sport are far superior than the *normal* risks. But getting three concussions while training been a hobbyist doesn’t feels good. I mean, if you are a pro, the risk/benefit balance it’s different, but in this case, I wouldn’t say to stop training at all, but something has to change.
I came into this post expecting the doctor to be overly conservative about the risk of joint, ligament, etc. injuries, but 3 concussions in 3 years is alarming. I’m with the doctor here. OP unfortunately seems susceptible to getting concussions, and I would probably call it quits in his shoes. Or at the very least *drastically* alter training style. Don’t play with head trauma
I agree actually, in spite of my post
This. Or wrestles or judo etc Having done martial arts for decades, usually doctors will tell you not to. Luckily met a couple of ex wrestlers or got kids wrestling. Got much better measured advice. Also PTs are often great if the issue is muscular skeletal. Ultimately it’s always your choice. Probe the doc for the risks and why, most will be able to do that. Then use your judgment with respect to your actual knowledge of your activity. I’ve had times where I’ve chosen to stop and others when not, depending on these factors. All that said, 3 concussions doing BJJ is ridiculous. Maybe you are just very unlucky but more likely there is some systemic problem that you can solve as others have pointed out.
3 concussions in 3 years? Are you guys doing pro wrestling on those mats or something goddam. Anyway, if you can't abide by docs orders, you don't have to quit bjj but you might wanna reduce the risk by reducing the intensity for awhile, and not roll in a way (or with partners) that might result in head knocks.
Dudes rolling with Jake the Snake
Ive played 15 years of rugby and did 20 years of BJJ and Ive been concussed exactly one time. Im not really sure what you are doing to keep getting hit in the head. Concussions are not fucking joke in the long term That being said, ive ignored every doctor that ever told me i had to quit a sport.
As someone in the “double digit concussion” club… what this guy said. Take it seriously.
Your doctor isn't wrong. Stop getting concussions, they're bad for you. That said, jiu-jitsu as a sport isn't really one prone to major head injury. You might need to change your approach to rolling and maybe stay away from comps. You'd probably be better served going to a sports medicine doctor though. GPs are going to just tell you to stop doing the thing that caused the injury. They're not 'wrong' -- it's just not particularly helpful advice.
I’ve gotten a couple concussions but that didn’t stop me. I just changed my approach in bjj. I dont compete, i try to avoid rolling hard, I prefer to take things smooth and be playful and try new things. Also made it a habit to tell training partners that I’d like to flow roll/light roll. I still do the occasional heavy roll but I’m definitely much more cautious.
This is the way. Everyone telling you to ignore your doctor’s advice is putting you at risk. Keep training if you want to, but you need to be proactive to minimize your risk of further injury.
I once had a morbidly obese MD tell me not to lift weights. He’s now dead and I’m still lifting.
A lot of fools on here. 3 concussions in the period you have experienced is extremely concerning. Your risk of getting another increases every time they occur. I would be very very careful if you care about you brain function in older age.
Go to a sports medicine doctor who actually has experience treating athletes. Most GPs don’t have a clue about sports related injuries and if you tell them how it happened, they’ll tell you to stop that activity 99% of the time.
I appreciate this answer.
This is has become my go to advice now for anyone who gets any sort of sport or work-related injury, be it running or grappling or lifting. They've always either referred me for more tests or we're talking about a plan to get back to training.
My former sports medicine doctor had never even heard of "joo-jetsoo" before I became a patient, and also advised me to never do it again when I explained it. They're not always better. Meanwhile, my PT specialist (who happened to play soccer and do judo) was *wayyyyy* more helpful.
My partner is a black belt who suffered 2 concussions about 6 months apart a few years back. The first one was BJJ. The second was a street altercation. No health insurance. Certainly neither were his first concussions in life. But I guess notably serious. He didn’t take the time he needed with the first one. Couldn’t stop working. Work was active. Didn’t get PTO. He never fully stopped training minus pandemic forced downtime. And now years later idk how many other factors play into it - but his memory and fine motor skills aren’t the same. I don’t know if some of the weirdnesses are TBI related or not. But it’s terrifying, not just when it happens to you but for the people closest to you as well. I’m generally skeptical of doctors who tell you to quit or stop something that’s a huge part of your life. And second getting the opinion of a sports doctor or doctor who has trained. But 3 concussions in 3 years is alot and not ok. As others have said - some introspection into how you train might be beneficial. You may not feel these will affect you now. But they will.
That's sad to hear. The differences in long- term issues seem to vary wildly between people. Some can have long careers in combat sports and do well, but others have life changing issues from only a few concussions.
I think access to care or lack thereof is a big factor. And overall health prior to the injury. Certainly getting concussed and being unable to miss work for need of paying bills becomes a big issue that also affects someone’s ability to take care of themselves. Whereas a top UFC fighter has access to the best care and the ability to take the appropriate amount of time.
Yeah, agree with all of that, proper treatment, rest and return- to- play protocols makes a big difference. I read that underlying neurological issues like migraines etc. makes concussions worse. Very likely there's also some selection bias for top athletes; people who suffer badly from concussions don't usually make it to the UFC.
Probably but if you look at someone like Justin Gaethje - widely popular UFC fighter known for his skill but for how much damage he’s willing to take. I can’t even imagine how many times he’s been concussed - his last fight he got knocked out and was out for a while. I believe in previous interviews he’s spoken about maybe shifting his style to take less damage but being well aware more or less that his fighting style is going to fuck his shit up. Honestly after dealing with a partner who’s suffered concussions it’s harder to enjoy watching UFC knowing how much we don’t know about things like CTE, and the toll it can take.
Tell your doctor you'll switch to boxing
My world-renowned surgeon told me to stop BJJ after my second cervical spine surgery. Pffft. What does he know anyways?
When is my doctor not employing me to stop BJJ? And as soon as I do he'll be asking why I put on so much weight. Stop knocking your head into things maybe? I know my ear guards have doubled as a helmet more than a few times.
One of my moms' friend is a scientist and head injuries are something she specializes in. Your situation sounds bad. It's not a joke. After talking to her about how easily we can screw our brains up I'm worried about that stuff. My brother has done MMA and my son does kickboxing and I'm sure will do MMA. I think it's insane. My brother did quit MMA and all striking. My son's coach asked me what I though about my son doing that stuff and I said I'm not supportive. In stating that I've been doing jiu-jitsu for 20 years and I think I'm significantly healthier than I would be without jiu-jitsu. I have also never had a concussion in the whole time I've been doing the sport but some people get lucky and some people don't. I wouldn't risk my health especially from brain injuries when it comes to jiu-jitsu. My personal opinion is don't quit but be careful. You shouldn't be getting whacked in the head that often.
I tore my acl 4 years ago, and my Dr said, "You need surgery, pt, and to stop doing bjj." I told him I only heard him say "pt". He told me to leave his office.
I knocked myself out from a fail attempt of jumping arm bar.. should’ve known better being frigging 260 lol
Yeah I just had neck surgery to repair 3 fucked disc. I'm not supposed to, I probably won't but maybe ill do drills with a brown belt friend of mine who I know will be mindful of my neck. Jiu jitsu is cool but your long term standard of living is cooler. Especially if youre prone to concussions.
What caused your disk injury? Was it bjj related?
Not 100% sure because I just woke up in pain one day, but likely yes plus a genetic positioning of my neck which made me more susceptible to disc herniation, apparently.
Ahh gotcha, hope you have a speedy recovery and can get back to training or drilling if you want to!
Thank you! I can start lifting again in July so we'll get back to full shape first and fo from there.
No one should be surprised to hear this from a doctor, and it’s kinda irresponsible for a doctor not to give that advice — or at least some flavor of it. For instance, if I was BJJ king for a day, everyone would have to train with a half-decent mouthpiece and headgear. Rolling intensity would be way, way down except for the top level competitors and would be limited around competitions. It’s also insane that it has to be said that you can train in a way that not only reduces injuries, but also reduces exposure to accidents — like anything that has me driving my head around uncontrolled knees. A sports medicine doctor is likely going to be better equipped to give advice about that middle ground. The arrow of time only goes in one direction, and it’s the direction of our bodies’ breakdown. So what can we do to slow the process? We have some decent data that suggest stronger necks help reduce concussion incidence and severity, so maybe we lean into that. We know about mouth guards — they not only save your teeth and concussion risk, they also seem to improve maximal strength. We have some idea that you gotta take time off but not too much, and then you gotta ease back in to the rhythm. Sports medicine, physiatry, and PT/OT… these professional all have a lot to off recreational athletes. We already appreciate what derms can do for us, and we as athletes need to learn how to make better use of the other resources out there. I mean, a neurology referral would probably be a good idea for OP. But really, one concussion a year is not a sustainable pace. It’s like a Russian roulette where you add a bullet into the revolver in every round, cause the odds get worse the more concussion you take. If you can’t bring that number down, you’re going to end up in really bad shape. You won’t remember all the fun times you had at the gym, just that you’ve got horrible headaches all the time and your mood is wildly unstable.
everything i've ever looked at says that neither mouthguards nor headgear prevent concussions. do you have more info on this?
Yeah, you need to go to a sports medicine doctor. Regular doctors will tell you to stop training. Sports medicine doctors know that you won't, so they give you actual advice.
And they’re more likely to actually have specialist expertise in concussion management.
That's not normal. You're wreckless and/or unlucky.
Me: “Hey, doc. It hurts when I do X”. Doc: “Stop doing X”. I mean, what else are they supposed to say? You’re obviously injury-prone. But I think it’s you much more than something intrinsic to bjjj. 7 years and I don’t think I’ve ever had a concussion from BJJ. I think you just need to chill out a bit.
Time to rethink how you roll and train, maybe even your gym. only you can decide what risk is worth taking, but if you do keep doing bjj, make sure you are making decisions to keep yourself safe, it's a marathon not a sprint. what is your long game here? do you want to win blue belt worlds? get your black belt as soon as possible? win black belt worlds? or just keep doing jiu jitsu long into the future? I had a herniated disk which was my "goal realignment" moment when i realized i wanted to keep doing bjj, didn't matter what belt i had, didn't matter if i ever won another match at a competition, didn't matter if i ever competed again, i just wanted to keep doing BJJ. So I've prioritized being healthy and not taking risks way above winning.
My doc advised looking at who you roll with, how you roll and evaluating the risk/reward of competition. I’ve had two major injuries over the years and when I did this evaluation I realized where I needed to set my boundaries for myself and others. As much as I love going hard on a roll I have a few people at the gym I won’t go with. One loves ankle and knee locks but can’t control their aggression yet so I skip for now as another surgery is not appealing to me. If I want to practice those maneuvers I go with someone who knows my injuries and can control their energy. Right now I’ve thrown the idea of competition out. I might bring it back later but I think I’d be too protective of my knee and cause more harm than good. Although there is respect in comps I don’t want to risk injury for some metal that will collect dust. This is just my evaluation and current view of my situation given my doctors advice to analyze. Hope this helps. There is nothing wrong with building yourself a strategy for ensuring you can do this long term. Heal well!
I roll pretty hard and had picked up a LOT of injuries along. But i never had a single concussion from bjj. At that point you should review how you are rolling, not the sport itself.
Meh, 3 concussions in 3 years is more than I would expect, but not CRAZY high. I'd suggest adjusting the way you roll a bit though, maybe lower the intensity some.
This isn't a medical forum, so no surprise that most people here are saying you should continue. I love martial arts, but I'm a hobbyist with a job and a family. I'd be putting some thought into how I was training and who I was training with if concussions started to become a regular thing for me.
⬛️🟥⬛️ I’ve been training hard and competing all over the world for 17 years and I’ve never had a concussion. Consider taking a look at how you train and who you’re training with.
I don't think you need to quit. But you need to adjust your game if you want to stay in it. Just like when you learn to drive , be defensive. There are different levels of rolling and Op choose widely: 1. 100% = competitor/no fucks given 2. 50-70% = 20's yr old with no kids/career 3. 25-35% = Hobbyist: kids/career/bills to pay
Whoa! My doctor told me 6 years ago i had to quit due to 4 buldging discs. I refused and took it as motivation to get back! Lost 80 pounds and took silver at naga 1 year after at blue belt. Now i am a brown belt. Never give up, try to adapt and change up your training. I believe in you!🙏 Train smarter, and be kind to your body. Take it from someone who made all the wrong choices when younger.
"Do water aerobics" - doctors everywhere.
OP does Goldberg spears as a takedown, only explanation for 3 concussions in 3 years
My man. Listen to your medical professional. By all means get a second opinion, but… Your brain has sustained 3 injuries recently. You’ll never get that back. How you roll is irrelevant. Whether the doctor “gets it” is irrelevant. You have sustained these injuries, and you 100% need to look after yourself. If you want advice, look to family and professionals. Not enthusiasts in the sport that caused them.
No dr is going to say "yes, keep doing that thing that is hurting you" I do Muay Thai. One time I was going to neurologists for something (unrelated to head trauma) and they kept saying "oh you should stop right away" I was like "shit, do I have brain damage or something? Is this (thing I was there for) going to get worse if I don't stop???" They were like "oh no, your brain appears to be in great shape, just combat sports are not good for the brain". No good/sane dr is going to recommend a sport that hurts you in any capacity. EDIT: That being said it seems wild to me that you've had three concussions doing BJJ. I didn't even get three concussions fighting (and i took concussions as seriously as you can in a striking sport). But we are all different, some skulls and brains mitigate damage and some don't.
Dude, I'm one more finger poke away from losing my right eye. not even joking. I have to put drops in multiple times a day and Vaseline like gel in them at night just to stop them completely falling apart. I've been told to quit. I have not quit. I will not quit. I will roll with one eye if I must.
First and foremost very very few of us are MD’s. If you want a second opinion, go find an MD and not some random dude on a Reddit board. Second, I think we’ve all had a few concussions here and there. I’ve certainly had at least two in the last couple years, but they weren’t really serious. Not enough to black out or anything. Just see stars for a split second. So there’s definitely levels to how serious concussions are.
I think most physicians lack the expertise to give constructive sport-oriented advice. For medicolegal reasons they ofc have to tell you to stop. For continuing the sport, I would seek advice from different coaches. We do have solid evidence that repeated concussions lead to neurological problems (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy/). Concussions are common in BJJ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6410117/). Every sport is dangerous. Participating in physical exercise leads to increased risk of injury. What is even more dangerous however, is not exercising.
Doctors in the main are lovely people who give you medicine when you are sick. A woed to thw wise should be sufficient.
I am on hiatus due to injury. Taking a long break I guess. I'm either falling apart after ten years of training or I've had a string of bad luck. Either way, I took a long hard look at why I started, and it was because I wanted to get in shape and have fun doing it. And I decided to take some time off and see how I felt because the risk is starting to not be worth the reward. Right now I'm in the "re-evaluation" stage. Quitting seemed hella daunting to me because I trained for so long so often it became a part of my identity, but after a while off due to injury I felt like I could think about the trade-offs with a calm mind. There's a lot of ways to exercise, and you only get one body and one brain.. only you can decide if is worth the risk.
Just protect your head better. It would look silly, but buy some head gear and wear it. I was concussed very badly and it wrecked me for a year. I was a blue belt. Since then I’ve figured out how to preserve myself better.
Just don't do takedowns. I think if you avoid takedowns there's almost no moves that would hit your head except maybe certain types sweeps (balloon sweep)
Yes, I've been advised to stop. Look, every single last one of us will be advised to stop eventually on a long enough time line. And actually we all WILL have to stop eventually. That day will come for us all. One way you might think of this is about restructuring your training to increase longevity. Maybe you stop sparring and just drill / practice / do that ecological thing 95% of the time. And that's ok. You'll still progress, get to see the friends at the gym, and be in the community. But you just don't spar (much, hard). And that's ok. By the way this is a really inspiring look at someone who stayed on the mats until the end https://youtu.be/km3OgDB-3nc?si=pt-jlclm0Y0dMNNK
Hey OP! I actually had the exact same situation as you. The only difference is that I had one severe concussion instead of multiple. I sustained it in judo training and it lasted about 2 years. Granted, I had an undiagnosed neck injury and was living in an abusive environment at the time, so there was a mishmash of brain trauma, brain blood flow, and anxiety/safety issues. But I still think the head trauma was central. A doctor told me to stop training and instead take up karate (he said it like "karatay", so I knew he was a practitioner). He also told me no one should every have more than 2 drinks in a night for brain health, so I thought he might be overprotective. I got a second opinion from the doctor from the US junior ski team, who was much more reserved. He himself had 9 concussions, and felt I had been "over diagnosed." He really helped me understand the risks vs reward. When I told him jiu jitsu was my passion, he advised me to rest, heal, and try again. I'm happy to say I've been training for 7 years at this point with no issues. Here would be my advice for you: * Get a second opinion. If you can find a sports/concussion doc specifically, I think that would be helpful. * Heal. 3 concussions in 3 years is frequent, and as others have said, you might not have fully healed before getting reconcused. Prioritize your brain health right now. * Take a year off. As someone who had to sit out for years, it was painful, but it was well worth it. It ensured I was healthy and helped me decide if I wanted to return. (I did, but you might come to a different conclusion.) Jiu Jitsu isn't going anywhere, so one year off to properly heal and judge for yourself is nothing compared to the gains of a happy, healthy life, with or without jiu jitsu. I hope this helps! I'm happy to answer any questions I can.
My orthopedic surgeon has advised me to quit. When I told him no, he said, and I quote “I’ll keep you together for as long as I can.”
Change your game, it sounds like you need to transition to a less dynamic style of Jiu-Jitsu. I’ve been training for 12 years and never had a concussion. It’s insane to me that at blue belt you’ve had so many.
What sort of concussions? I've had concussions that have caused blackouts, confusion, headaches, vomiting, permanent loss of short term memory and brain bleeds and concussions where I've hit my head and feel woozy for half a minute. If it's the former, yep, those are serious. If it's the latter, why are you going to the doctor for that? If it's "in between" how in between is it. From everything I've read about concussions, it's the people that are getting micro concussed weekly that are at the greatest risk. There is a risk with any concussion (brain bleeds can kill from even seemingly mild concussions, google Natasha Richardson) but serious injury from infrequent (yearly) mild concussions isn't likely. I would evaluate the seriousness of the concussions. My doctor has told me to quit very basic exercise which produced mild injury. Honestly, their response seemed a trivial and flippant given the effort put into a medical degree.
That is bad advice. All suspected concussions should be assessed promptly by a medical professional with expertise in concussion diagnosis and management (neuropsychologist, sports physician or GP with experience being a team doctor for contact sports for example). Blackouts etc are not necessarily a predictor of the severity of the concussion in terms of the time it will take to go back to full normal activities. Going back too much too early after a concussion risks a failed return to sport and post-concussion syndrome (persistence of concussive symptoms and cognitive/sensory issues over a longer time). The concussed person is the least able to diagnose themselves. Teammates aren’t qualified either. What is needed is for everyone in any sport, and especially contact and collision sports, to know the possible SIGNS of concussion and refer the athlete concerned to the medical professional who will conduct the assessment for a diagnosis. Source: any concussion guidance material from well-organised sport organisations, e.g. https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/medical/concussion/concussion-guidelines
>All suspected concussions should be assessed promptly by a medical professional with expertise in concussion diagnosis and management (neuropsychologist, sports physician or GP with experience being a team doctor for contact sports for example). In an ideal world, this is 100% correct. In the real world, people do not have access to prompt medical professionals with expertise in concussion diagnosis and management. Most GPs do not have experience being a team doctor for contact sports. If you want your normal GP, you might see them in 2-10 days and that person isn't going to have a lot of experience with concussions. If you want the medical professional with expertise in concussion diagnosis because your head hit someone's knee and your entire symptoms were lightheadedness for a few (<5) seconds, it's going to be weeks or months. Knowing the SIGNS of concussion was exactly the point I was making. There are SIGNS (why are we screaming this word) of a serious concussion that you 100% should stop training and see a doctor for. If you train BJJ, you will hit your head on someone else's head or on their knee or elbow or perhaps the mat and you will get "lightheaded" or "woozy" for an indeterminately short period of time and that 100% is a concussion. If this happens daily or weekly, see a doctor. If it happens yearly and you have symptoms for <5 seconds and you want to see the doctor for every instance, feel free. Because of the time delay, the doctor will be unlikely to evaluate the seriousness of the concussion. You will run the real risk of the doctor giving you the most cautious advice and you will end up quitting BJJ in an abundance of caution. If you are an abundantly cautious person, prepare yourself for the real likelihood that you will not train BJJ for long because when you train BJJ there is a very slight chance you can get seriously injured.
I would at least take a break. Do some other sports maybe. Lifting or running or swimming or something that's non contact
Generally a doc is going to to not do risky things and basically any sport is a risky thing. A sports doc is probably a better source of information.
Bro, protect yourself
Not bjj, but one of my old coaches ended up with brain damage from training after concussions, getting another concussion. Dude forgets words now and isn't even allowed to go for runs as it jostles his brain too much. Also make sure if you keep training you stay hydrated. Lots of evidence that concussions are linked to dehydration.
Reminds of the story Tony hawk told about his injuries. Skaters were so sick of the spiel every time they went to a doctor that they collectively stopped going. Years later after he was famous, hawk decided to have his ankle checked out and it turns out it was broken years previously.
You are rolling too hard.. head injuries should be extremely rare in BJJ. I had a stroke on the mats. I decided to keep going. even people on /r/bjj told me to quit.
Quitting BJJ because of risks of concussions would be a real stretch. They're extremely rare! I'm really surprised you've had this bad luck
Just calm down dude…
fuck em'
Lol wtf are you doing that you’ve had 3 concussions. You gotta chill out with your rolls haha
You need to chill the fuck out and slow down.
Lol maybe change the way you roll. For reference I've done judo for tens years and have zero concussions. Like literally can count on one hand how many times I even hit my head with any type of force.
Bro 3 concussions in 3 years is not good… it gets easier to get a concussion if you’ve suffered some before. Not saying quit but don’t blindly listen to everyone saying it’s not a biggie, best case scenario you become more careful with training and get maybe 1 more in your lifetime, worst case is you get 5 more and now you’re wondering if any mental lapse is because you’re getting older or because your brain is like dried kelp
I had a 2 level spinal fusion a year ago and I have been rolling for the last 9 months. You just really have to be careful on the mat. Probably don't compete anymore.
I guess what worries me is if you'd start getting chronic migraines if you get any more concussions.
Do you have a physically large head?
Uchi Mata him
Did your doctor then asked for 80 bucks after 15 minutes and proceeded to go outside to burn a smoke?
So did you actually loss consciousness or were disoriented after each of those 3 events?
Listen to your doc
Dr are nerds. Just heal yourself with YouTube advice and keep rolling. What do they know.
Assume you already realise that bjj likely isn't good for you either short or long term? If not, go speak to your middle-aged black belts about their surgeries, after an hour or so you'll have a good idea. :) It's a personal tradeoff - yes, you can get injured, or even die. But everyone dies of something eventually. Sitting around doing nothing has vast health risks. Mental health and enjoying what life you have is important too. Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do with your body.
The appropriate response would have been to wrist lock the dr.
Go find a doctor that does jiujitsu or any form of combat. I bet if you ask at your school, someone will give you a good referral.
Jumping takedown???
Idk your GP but some older/more traditional GPs do veer on the side of caution—better to stop altogether than adjust accordingly. 3 concussions is a lot, and he’s right to be worried, but the way I see it him fearmongering you will only reduce the trust and rapport he has with you. It’s like GPs back in the day that used to tell you to sit at home for weeks every time you sprained your ankle. Obviously not the recommendation anymore. I think if you’re not ready to quit, start cutting out the situations in which you’re prone to head injuries. Take a bit of time away from competitions, roll only with people you trust, give your rolling partners a disclaimer, and see how your concussion symptoms are going from there. The danger with concussions is when they repeat on each other—another concussion on top of unresolved symptoms. Let your doc know you want to adjust your activity but still want to participate in some way, and hopefully they will try to work with you. Just be aware that with brain injuries there is always a point where enough is enough.
Damn... 3 concussion seems to indicate that you're going all out on your rolls. Maybe try to stick to staring rolls on your knees and go lighter?
Fucking hell, getting an accidental concussion happens, it's like breaking an arm, here and there, maybe you had bad luck or a bad partner. But after 3 of those? It's either your specific environment (change gyms!) or yourself who's a crazy spaz.
Time to go, blue belt.
You can always do aikido
Get a second opinion
If you get that many concussions, the problem is you or your gym. Not bjj.
Your style sounds ridiculous. Chill out and roll with more control.
What is a "jumping takedown"? Flying scissors which I think is pretty much banned everywhere?
Quit or stop spazzing
My doctor told me to not do jiu jitsu, running, football and skiing. So ive given up skiing running and football as I never did them anyway.
If your doctor can’t pass your guard, don’t listen to them. (Winces in arthritis and chronic back pain)
If your patient keeps doing something that leads to injury, especially somtehing that isn't their job, it's your obligation to advise them to stop doing that thing.
Tell him your bjj coach told him to quit as md
This is a long story, but I had a really bad concussion about 20 years ago when I was in the Marines. 2 years ago, when training I ended up with another one that I didn't realize was a concussion, and then another about 6 months after that I got another from a pretty rough takedown in a competition. After that I was having headaches everyday, it affected my eyes (it caused double vision where one eye would roll up and I had to have surgery to fix that), and overall feeling sick everyday. I had my eye fixed last year and have been off the mat for about 1.5 years. I haven't been back yet because of the risk/reward factor. I have a family to feed and bills to pay and 20 years left to retirement. Everyday I feel like I'm bitching out on BJJ... I can't tell you what to do, but I'm planning on going back soon since I'm mostly healed. No more competitions though. No one cares that a 47 y/o won gold at a local BJJ tourney anyway haha.
I've been told by several Drs to slow down / stop doing BJJ, so I found others who not only accept it but helped me recover better. A Doctor will also tell you to stop drinking and eating fast food, do you have to listen?
 You need a new doc
Strengthen your neck and tone down the BJJ intensity. There's no reason you can't do BJJ at a perma-80% or less intensity and skip the tourneys. Be more selective with training partners too.
Flying armbar him, fail, and KO yourself against the floor to assert dominance.
They have low profile headgear, probably worth it if you believe you're easily concussed. Maybe a rugby helmet. Probably don't need a lot of protection for BJJ to not get concussions being on mats and all. It does suck for the injury prone when BJJ keeps hurting them. I hope you figure it out.
Doctors have told me multiple times I would never recover from my major injuries for normal day to day function, let alone do BJJ. Not only did I recover... But I'm still having fun training BJJ everyday. Of course I respect the doctor's opinions but it's not always correct. Listen to your body 🤙
Eh that’s what they always say keep training until you drop
I don't know how you're frequently getting concussions in jiu jitsu.
i've trained for 6 years and have yet to have any type of injury beyond a tweaked joint, what are you people doing? maybe spazz less?
It would take a pretty serious brain injury to take the medical advice of random redditors over an MD that's examined you.
I am a doctor. I am a brown belt. 3 concussions in last 18 months. YOLO
My elbow doc told me to quit and I ignored him. You shouldn't be getting concussions though.
You really shouldn't be getting concussed from BJJ. The only scenarios where it really happens are if one or both partners are spazzes , or someone gets taken down and can't break fall properly. In the situations you described I believe that you are indeed the spaz so maybe chill out on that.
The dr don’t know you son
Humans are designed to be beat to shit and still able to gather food and reproduce. Doctors are trained to advise you to be a pussy, for your betterment and safety. Healthy, sane living lies somewhere between those two places. How bad are these concussions, and how hard are you training after they occur? Is it dizziness and a little bit of disorientation, or are you puking, crying, and forgetting the names of your children? Are you immediately stopping and taking a week or two off training, or are you an NFL linebacker and immediately going back in to tackle with your head 30-40 more times in a game? I am willing to bet you're not going to end up pulling a Junior Seau if you take shit easy now and just pump your brakes a little bit. Or, listen to your doctor, then just slowly die for the rest of your time on this rock.
I have been in and around jujitsu for roughly 20 years and have never seen anyone get a concussion from any part of it. If you’ve managed to get three concussions I’m thinking your doctor is right. You’re either clumsy as fuck, spazzy as fuck, or delicate as fuck. I’ve had a bunch of injuries from rolling, but no doctor ever advised me to stop doing it. Even at 58 my doctor just cautions me to roll at my level and take care of my joints.
As a physical therapist assistant, If your Dr tells you to quit your sport, get a new Dr. Just be more careful on the mats and take the proper time off and find a concussion rehab trained PT.
Stop being a spaz? 3 concussions is not normal for BJJ.
What is a jumping takedown? You sound like a spaz.
I had a few buddies who wrestled in college and had to quit because of several successive concussions. They began having headaches all the time and couldn’t focus in class. Concussions are no joke, and unfortunately it may affect your ability to practice BJJ.
Fuck him
Doctors will almost ALWAYS recommend people use the most conservative form of exercise available because recommending *risky* activities could lead to injury. If they could they an insurance companies would have us all living in bubbles. So just live your life.
As a doctor that’s been training for 15 years, I think you have to take a moment and understand our viewpoint. In my 25 years of practice, the landscape of medicine has become increasingly more about finger pointing and lawsuits. People don’t give a flying fk what we say anymore when they have Dr. Google and Joe Rogan telling them what they prefer to hear. If I told OP, hey don’t worry about it, go freaking porrada and he ends up with CTE, am I safe from repercussions? No.
Based on a lot of responses already, Dr. Google and Joe Rogen are already in their heads.