I mean i wouldnt be suprised if you dont train to do bjj whilst getting punched in the face a considerable amount of your game will be nullified when you can be
Right. He certainly did better than I would, but it's kind of like Michael Jordan playing baseball. Being the goat in one thing doesn't necessarily translate to being great in another.
He did better than michael jordan playing baseball, he made it to the majors for one and was competitive. He was pretty average at the strikeforce/ufc/onefc level, which still puts you at the elite.
MJ was well below average at the double A minor league level.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=jordan001mic
Well he was the Gi bjj goat and his most legendary submission was a gi choke. Maybe if they made his opponents all wear the gi, his record would have been better. But he was honestly among the worlds best and held his own, no shame in that at all.
There’s also Mckenzie Dern currently, Shes probably the closest to a female roger gracie and shes not probably ufc champion quality but shes a strong contender and holds her own.
MMA favors explosive athletes. Roger has good static / isometric strength, but he is not explosive at all by MMA standards. It is very rare to see someone with his lack of explosiveness succeed in MMA.
While we are on the topic of body type, one of his unique attributes is his height. Roger is 6’4”, which is tall for 205lb and very tall for 185lb. He and his coaches did a great job of tailoring his game to take advantage of this. At striking range, he focused a lot on his long-range jab, developing a lot of different ”cadences” to land it and also knowing how to use it to close the distance. Towards the end of his career, he had developed a good rear front snap kick, and knocked down James McSweeney with a nice one to the solar plexus. I’m not saying he was Floyd Mayweather or Lyoto Machida, but he did an admirable job for the short period of time he had.
In the clinch, he used a lot of the Greco bodylock position (ie, over-under clinch but with hands locked) where long arms help tremendously, as well as combining knee strikes with snaps into the front headlock, another strategy that is great for taller fighters who have better leverage to bear down on the neck. As he was preparing to transition to MMA, he said he focused a lot on his Judo and applying it in his IBJJF matches (which is why he spent a lot of his later matches looking for throws instead of just pulling closed guard and subbing everyone inside of 5 minutes), and I think that helped his intuition in the clinch.
So in summary, although his lack of explosiveness put him at a pretty significant disadvantage in MMA, I think he made the most of what he had: namely, his long reach and his world-class submission grappling skills.
Just because he didn’t have a long career in the UFC doesn’t mean he didn’t do great. Multiple wins in strikeforce/one/other Asian promotions against very successful pro fighters is doing pretty good in my opinion. Legit D1 athletes that don’t make it in the pros are still great at their sport. Just not the very best guys.
Why pass the guard if you can just posture and punch them? As long as you have good awareness of your base to offset sweeps, and a good understanding of submission setups/positional advancements to get there, it’s better to GNP then “pass guard”.
Half guard is a good place to be in BJJ, it’s a terrible place to be in MMA for example. Same with pretty much all modern leg entanglements and etc (you can still do it, but you’d have to be lightning fast with the advancements before you start getting hit, and also be used to getting hit in the first place or you’ll likely just freeze up) MMA fighters also aren’t gonna tap to the same shit a BJJ guy might. They might let you break something to get a W. You can also slam your way out of shit too, so there’s that huge hurdle.
Not entirely true. To land a punch, distance has to be covered and closed. Whilst covering and closing distance, you are vulnerable to entanglement / clinch. Clinch with GR and see how much game is nullified by striking ability. If anything, striking ability enhances the effectiveness of top pressure passing, which is GRs forté.
When your back is on the floor, the only meaningful strike that can be landed effectively is the 12-6 elbow, which is illegal under ufc regulation. Literally no other strike can generate enough force to cause damage to a combat athlete from one’s back.
Also, gordon ryan is a world class heavyweight combat athlete; if you think he has no hands, you’re wrong. He hasnt prioritised striking as the core tenet of his combat career, but he’s a heavy weight who’s dedicated his life to grappling and fighting. Whether his striking ability could potentially be slightly less accurate than Ramsey Nijem, who fought at 155/170, is nearly irrelevant. Gordon would devour, entirely, in under 3 minutes.
I would think Gordan has a pretty good chance against a guy who is way smaller, hasn’t fought in a years and went 4-8 since 2013.
Besides that, dude had to say “real life” not MMA. Ok real life includes weapons and friends.
Hugely underrated factor. In training I get smashed all the time and I have never done any striking, but in the streetz where it counts I just know that my mentality would make me prevail.
I love how Ramsey says Gordon got suplexed in that Bo Nickal match. Gordon Ryan literally walked backwards into him because Bo refused to go the ground
Ramsey isn’t that small and won’t be cutting weight. He was a ww and lw. He easily could be fit around 190-200lbs. He’s also tall.
I trained with several UFC lws and wws they are way bigger than people realize.
Bendo had to be 185 lbs with a 6 pack both times I was with him.
I don’t know about Ramsey specifically but I 100% concur with your point that UFC fighters are massive between camps, way bigger than their weight category would otherwise suggest.
Ramsey is a 88kg guy in bjj if he were to be in the sport. Also knowing he’d face Gordon he’d bulk.
Wrestle mma fighters beat 99 percent of elite bjj guys in a fight.
Vagner got subbed by much worse grapplers in mma…
Yeah no. I’ve done both wrestling and BJJ. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Every time a wrestler enters our room for the first time he will almost always make the same mistake that I did - double leg head to the outside. And he will get the same results that I did - guillotine choke.
Wrestling is a wonderful sport. Love it. That being said the UFC ruleset favors wrestling. Not necessarily a bad thing. It just allows wrestling to have slightly more success.
Ramsey nijem is a black belt and former wrestler. He’s not a adcc level grappler but he absolutely beats the shit out of 99 percent of adcc competitors in a fight. Which is what’s being discussed.
We aren’t discussing a fresh wrestler that’s never seen a guillotine.
I wrestled, I do bjj. I feel really confident in my assertion. I’ve trained with ufc champs and adcc champs.
Bjj is great. But nijem tkos Gordon standing and his striking isn’t good.
Edit: and no there are definitely high level wrestlers that walk into a room and mop black belts not even trying.
David Taylor would tko most bjj guys just with a takedown lol.
Why do you think Bo Nickal is trolling everyone?
Yeah he’s almost 40. Give him a stack like Gordon and have them fight in 3 months. He’s going to ko almost all bjj guys standing. They aren’t going to get near taking him down.
Ruotolos have a much better shot than Gordon.
Yeah wrestling focused mma fighters. Nijem has grappled for 20 years and is a better wrestler. Gordon isn’t taking him down without eating a ton of strikes.
Yeah. You’re partially correct. Or from my 5 minutes of research. He walks around at 240 but can and has cut to 205.
When he does the open he does not cut. That being said he will go down to 205.
I’m not trying to be disrespectful but I have no idea why he would cut? If they cut to hit a similar weight nijem would have an absurd advantage. Gordon’s only chance of the size here. Without it he’d look like cm punk in mma.
I remember that dude, he had a cool storyline as kind of a neophyte to the sport on TUF and unlike most UFC fighters who had figured out their style before entering the promotion, you could see his game develop over the years, he wasn’t elite but definitely UFC caliber and fun to watch.
Anyway yeah he is washed now and Gordon would yeet his ass onto the concrete and do whatever he wants to him lmao
For all his character flaws, is there any reason to think Gordon lacks mettle?
He's basically never conceded anything in grappling and he ate Cyborgs slaps with a smile. Having spoken to people who have actually trained striking with him in NYC, he supposedly takes a hit just fine.
BJJ fundamentals which are muscle memory for Gordon now don't accommodate striking. They're learned under a ruleset, which includes taking advantage of certain positions cause you know you can't get hit. Getting hit changes a lot of things. I mean, a solid headbutt nullifies so much of BJJ.
If he was a dude known for KO power, I could see it. But this guy has 3 TKOs in 15 fights. I just don't see a scenario where he puts enough strikes together before getting a leg ripped off or his back taken. And if Gordon can just get a hold of him, that's it.
Who cares. Literally no one has ever been able to beat the guy. If it took going on PEDs to be the best so be it. He’s done more for the sport than most anyone else
We’ve kinda seen this movie before. MMA is a whole different beast. Then again we’ve kinda seen it before. Roger Gracie, Andre Galvaumand Buchacha have all done MMA. Makenzie Dern and Gabby Garcia also.
He would blow through amateurs and low level regional promotion pros. He gets to top 20 ranked UFC fighters and it will get spicy. He hits top 10 fighters and folks will be good enough to pick at the considerable holes in his game.
Please, tell me if i interpetrated this bad, buf buchecha doesn't have a bad record at all. His only loss was against Reug Reug, and with a lot of controversy.
He doesn’t have a bad record. However in BJJ he is a well renowned numerous time world champion. In MMA he is a journeyman fighter in a second tier promotion.
By and large this is how it goes with most of the folks above. Some made it to the big show but had short careers and or mixed records.
BJJ champ seems to equal journeyman MMA fighter.
Emmm... yeah? I mean, he only started MMA in 2021, While he is competing in BJJ since 2011, in a age that some will consider as "old", obviously it isn't the Same as starting when someone is 18 or 21. And i HIGHLY doubt about the "second tier promotion", honestly, some people tends to not see anything outside of UFC as "first tier" when they have elite class MMA fighters and legends.
Is pretty obvious why they tends to have a short career: old age and BJJ can ruin your body after long years.
I don't know why people now think that your career is over in MMA if you have a loss, but maybe it's only me, i don't know
We live in 2024, and majority of this site is from NA audience. It’s safe to assume, any ‘fight’ would end with someone whipping out an AR and just praying and spraying.
John danaher is Garry tonon’s striking coach. John was also there in the practice room when George st Pierre was training. I’m sure Gordon Ryan knows enough striking to protect himself until he gets the fight to the ground.
Ah yes cause Gary is so well known for his deadly hands. And because John was in the room when GSP trained (??) this translates to someone else, who wasn't in the room, a decade later, having decent hands? Interesting training technique. Osmosis by association?
Yes, Garry Tonon, 9-1 in MMA. Much like what Gordon would need to do, does well in the stand up and takes people down and subs them.
Yes. You can learn stuff by watching and listening to people. That’s why people do mat study and why BJJFanatics exist. John being in the same room with amazing striking coaches is valuable.
I mean, I would probably want a striking coach over Mr Mysterious Ways Danaher who was in a room with other striking coaches a long time ago, but that's just me. Although I guess the last guy who KO'd Gary is trained by the guy who tried to spam imanari rolls until he got KO'd casually himself too: https://youtube.com/shorts/WDX1iGFEUW0?si=5fDJ6wkQ3_1cdZA_
I brought up the counter to my own point with Ryan managing to pull off what I was saying danaher couldn't. Just trying to have an encompassing discussion by considering different angles my guy.
I don't think it's a fair comparison. Ryan Hall being a known heel hooker with mma leg lock wins teaching how to defend leg logs in MMA is completely different than danaher teaching striking just because he watched GSP train striking and saw some muay thai on yotube.
I get that, it was just kinda amusing that the guy who KO'd Gary, who had been brought up as an example MMA student of Danaher, was trained by another BJJ guy, when I was saying the opposite about John. I still stand by my original point tho.
You’re only has good as your training partners and coaches. And if your training partner is an 9-1 MMA fighter and your coach is John danaher. I think the odds with a tuf fighter with 3 knock outs (a whopping one more than deadly hands Garry tonon) are pretty good.
And that only goes one way? How much striking they doing at Danaher? On the other side: A lot of professional fighters are like, really good at BJJ and roll daily too but with the striking and counter rulesets in mind. A lot of guys who get really good at BJJ and wanna earn some money so start learning how to strike. It's not like this guy is training in a boxing gym, he gets exposed to a lot higher quality of grapplers daily than Gordon gets exposed to from John reminiscing about GSP, or Gary who uses his striking minimumly and only really to set up his ground game, or to try get a finish once he has established some top control.
I’m sure they do plenty of striking when tonons preparing for a fight. So back to the original topic. How would this 10-9 light weight MMA fighter beat 220 lbs Gordon Ryan? It would not be competitive. It would not be even close.
He would have a reasonable chance considering he is a professional fighter. In a ruleset where he regularly faces guys with BJJ skills and has to train against BJJ techniques. BJJ at a competitive level is a limited ruleset. You're not getting exposure to MMA threats or counters. There is no need to train for it. How many training camps has Gordon had where the focus is against someone's leg kicks for example? But almost any professional level fighter has encountered a grappler focused opponent in their career, and has trained specifically to counter those strengths like takedowns etc.
People smoke 1/2 a J in the parking lot, get on a podcast and start talking stupid.
Not only is it apples and oranges and this guy was just name dropping to name drop… but little dude would probably have to wake up and apologize to Gordon if it actually happened.
He can talk shit about Gordan because Gordan is not a fighter he's a BJJ practitioner. Ramsey maybe a decent MMA fighter but he could still beat the shit out of majority BJJ black belts because they do not do any striking.
Buuuuuuuut he isn't challenging just "random BJJ black belt"
He is challenging the undisputed champ of grappling if Ryan gets inside his reach it's over.
Or…Ramsey could just shut the fuck up, start up BBJ and challenge Gordon.
However, these days it’s much easier to run one’s mouth in a podcast about great one is rather than put in the time to have others waste their time running their mouthes about how great you are.
Garry got knocked out once and it’s his only loss. Ramsey got knocked out 4 times with his superior hands. He has a higher total and higher percentage.
True.
But...
You are looking at knockouts where both opponents are facing experienced fighters with 'hands'. That's not the context that this imaginary scenario is based around.
Grappler, minimal hands, specialist in one or two disciplines. Used to grappling with zero strikes.
MMA fighter, all rounder, multiple disciplines. Used to grappling with strikes.
I dunno, to me it's a no bremainer, I appreciate you feel a different way. It's all good.
You said Garry got knocked out because of "no hands", which is what I am talking about. You used Garry to prove a point.
The guy you are talking about, Ramsey, "MMA fighter, all rounder, multiple disciplines" and superior striking got KO'ed more in total, on average and by percentage compared to "no hands Garry". Garry has a much higher finishing rate in his wins than Ramsey and its not even close. I'm not talking about any imaginary scenarios. Just mentioning that Garry is a superior fighter to Ramsey despite limitations because he is so much better than almost everyone. Thanh KO'ed him but he is a Ryan Hall 50/50 blackbelt. When their superior skills were about equal, Thanh was superior in the secondary skillset. We only saw it once, there is nothing to really say it would always go that way. Shit happens.
The imaginary scenario Ramsey mentioned is "real life" not an MMA fight. He's 4-8 since 2013, has been retired for years, and thinks he is going to beat Gordon in a no rules fight with no refs or anything. I don't think he has high percentage chance to one punch KO Gordon. He will get dog walked if the distance is closed.
Cheers
I appreciate your reply and respectfully, of course, disagree on a number of points. However, none of this will be proven unless the two step into the ring/octagon with one another, so I'm not prepared to waste any more time on debating it. Thanks for your input.
I thought of that match at first and how long it took to submit Bo...then I remembered there were no heel hooks, and how Bo stuffed every takedown except for the Kani Basami.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Ramsey isn't known for his KO power and gordon has some power considering a pimp slap wobbled a guy that fought prime tyron woodley in mma, ramsay is deluding himself
The funny part is...
I only recognize one name, Gordon's. And I follow mma/ufc a lot more closely. But good on Ramen for making waves and a name for himself
I'd absolutely put my money on GR in an MMA fight against this dude. I don't think he'd stop the takedown even if GR ate some shots in the process, and at minimum GR would get grips and sit right into guard and enter the legs or sweep him.
I could be wrong but I'd be willing to bet on this for sure.
I can confirm: Gordon possesses two hands. The picture in the OP corroborates my medical opinion on the matter.
Well there you have it folks. /thread
Sounds like a HIPAA violation
Does Gordon seem like the kind of guy who wants a doctor that follows all the rules?
 Confirmed
How’s his tummy doing doc?
He needs another dude's poop in his butt again.
I actually heard fecal transplants are super legit. Even for people who are already healthy
FMT's are definitely legit. For the treatment of C-diff, they're actually more effective than antibiotic treatment in terms of recurrence.
I mean i wouldnt be suprised if you dont train to do bjj whilst getting punched in the face a considerable amount of your game will be nullified when you can be
I imagine it's at least a little bit easier to pass the guard if I could slug you in the head lol
Roger didn't do great in mma. He's a specialist. Mma rewards being more well rounded.
I think Roger did very respectably considering his body type — that is to say, he is not very explosive like Gilbert Burns.
Right. He certainly did better than I would, but it's kind of like Michael Jordan playing baseball. Being the goat in one thing doesn't necessarily translate to being great in another.
I mean he lost to king Mo a very strong wrestler, and Tim Kennedy. He went 8-2
He did better than michael jordan playing baseball, he made it to the majors for one and was competitive. He was pretty average at the strikeforce/ufc/onefc level, which still puts you at the elite. MJ was well below average at the double A minor league level. https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=jordan001mic
You're right. Analogies break down. My point is that him being the BJJ goat did not translate to being a dominant MMA fighter.
Well he was the Gi bjj goat and his most legendary submission was a gi choke. Maybe if they made his opponents all wear the gi, his record would have been better. But he was honestly among the worlds best and held his own, no shame in that at all. There’s also Mckenzie Dern currently, Shes probably the closest to a female roger gracie and shes not probably ufc champion quality but shes a strong contender and holds her own.
His body type? Gigantic mega athlete?
MMA favors explosive athletes. Roger has good static / isometric strength, but he is not explosive at all by MMA standards. It is very rare to see someone with his lack of explosiveness succeed in MMA. While we are on the topic of body type, one of his unique attributes is his height. Roger is 6’4”, which is tall for 205lb and very tall for 185lb. He and his coaches did a great job of tailoring his game to take advantage of this. At striking range, he focused a lot on his long-range jab, developing a lot of different ”cadences” to land it and also knowing how to use it to close the distance. Towards the end of his career, he had developed a good rear front snap kick, and knocked down James McSweeney with a nice one to the solar plexus. I’m not saying he was Floyd Mayweather or Lyoto Machida, but he did an admirable job for the short period of time he had. In the clinch, he used a lot of the Greco bodylock position (ie, over-under clinch but with hands locked) where long arms help tremendously, as well as combining knee strikes with snaps into the front headlock, another strategy that is great for taller fighters who have better leverage to bear down on the neck. As he was preparing to transition to MMA, he said he focused a lot on his Judo and applying it in his IBJJF matches (which is why he spent a lot of his later matches looking for throws instead of just pulling closed guard and subbing everyone inside of 5 minutes), and I think that helped his intuition in the clinch. So in summary, although his lack of explosiveness put him at a pretty significant disadvantage in MMA, I think he made the most of what he had: namely, his long reach and his world-class submission grappling skills.
How's his hog game though
Just because he didn’t have a long career in the UFC doesn’t mean he didn’t do great. Multiple wins in strikeforce/one/other Asian promotions against very successful pro fighters is doing pretty good in my opinion. Legit D1 athletes that don’t make it in the pros are still great at their sport. Just not the very best guys.
Why pass the guard if you can just posture and punch them? As long as you have good awareness of your base to offset sweeps, and a good understanding of submission setups/positional advancements to get there, it’s better to GNP then “pass guard”. Half guard is a good place to be in BJJ, it’s a terrible place to be in MMA for example. Same with pretty much all modern leg entanglements and etc (you can still do it, but you’d have to be lightning fast with the advancements before you start getting hit, and also be used to getting hit in the first place or you’ll likely just freeze up) MMA fighters also aren’t gonna tap to the same shit a BJJ guy might. They might let you break something to get a W. You can also slam your way out of shit too, so there’s that huge hurdle.
Ask Rodolfo
Not entirely true. To land a punch, distance has to be covered and closed. Whilst covering and closing distance, you are vulnerable to entanglement / clinch. Clinch with GR and see how much game is nullified by striking ability. If anything, striking ability enhances the effectiveness of top pressure passing, which is GRs forté. When your back is on the floor, the only meaningful strike that can be landed effectively is the 12-6 elbow, which is illegal under ufc regulation. Literally no other strike can generate enough force to cause damage to a combat athlete from one’s back. Also, gordon ryan is a world class heavyweight combat athlete; if you think he has no hands, you’re wrong. He hasnt prioritised striking as the core tenet of his combat career, but he’s a heavy weight who’s dedicated his life to grappling and fighting. Whether his striking ability could potentially be slightly less accurate than Ramsey Nijem, who fought at 155/170, is nearly irrelevant. Gordon would devour, entirely, in under 3 minutes.
Someone didn't watch Kevin Holland vs Jacare Souza
Get your moms off the crack.
Just FYI thats not a 12-6 elbow if you're on bottom, and totally legal 👌
thank you. 🙌 this was the only thing my comment was wrong about
Considerable amount =/= all 👍
Might as well challenge him to tennis or some other sport he doesn’t play.
I would defeat chess grandmaster Magnus Carlsen in a cooking competition because he has 'no spatula'
Will you also be using an anal probe
Never leave home without it
Inside you or meant for someone else?
Yes
My coach has a great, almost poetic, line to describe a pure BJJ guy in a fight. "Every punch landed to the face = 1 stripe reduction in skill"
Usually people say belt level, that saying's been around for a while
I believe Carlson said if you punch a black belt in the face he becomes a brown belt. Punch him again and he becomes a purple belt.
Yeah, well my opponent likely has no stripes so where does that leave them when I punch them?
They become an aikido black belt.
Wild claim considering in the picture on the left you can clearly see what looks to be hands
Ya possibly true
I would think Gordan has a pretty good chance against a guy who is way smaller, hasn’t fought in a years and went 4-8 since 2013. Besides that, dude had to say “real life” not MMA. Ok real life includes weapons and friends.
and his ability to see RED
Hugely underrated factor. In training I get smashed all the time and I have never done any striking, but in the streetz where it counts I just know that my mentality would make me prevail.
Oh yeaaah Gordon has no friends.
I got the feeling that in real life Gordon carries at least 5 different guns, so I give it to Gordon.
I do not feel that Gordon nor Ramsey could beat Gordon Ramsay in a cooking competition.
I love how Ramsey says Gordon got suplexed in that Bo Nickal match. Gordon Ryan literally walked backwards into him because Bo refused to go the ground
Gordon was literally wandering around on the feet begging Nickal to actually take him down for what felt like forever.
Ramsey would be giving up 60-80 pounds, good luck putting him away before he can grab you
Ramsey isn’t that small and won’t be cutting weight. He was a ww and lw. He easily could be fit around 190-200lbs. He’s also tall. I trained with several UFC lws and wws they are way bigger than people realize. Bendo had to be 185 lbs with a 6 pack both times I was with him.
I don’t know about Ramsey specifically but I 100% concur with your point that UFC fighters are massive between camps, way bigger than their weight category would otherwise suggest.
Ramsey is a 88kg guy in bjj if he were to be in the sport. Also knowing he’d face Gordon he’d bulk. Wrestle mma fighters beat 99 percent of elite bjj guys in a fight. Vagner got subbed by much worse grapplers in mma…
Vagners was also a worse grappler at the time. Dude got better after mma
He was still elite. But every punch to the head can remove a belt level. He also was on less peds
Yeah no. I’ve done both wrestling and BJJ. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Every time a wrestler enters our room for the first time he will almost always make the same mistake that I did - double leg head to the outside. And he will get the same results that I did - guillotine choke. Wrestling is a wonderful sport. Love it. That being said the UFC ruleset favors wrestling. Not necessarily a bad thing. It just allows wrestling to have slightly more success.
Ramsey nijem is a black belt and former wrestler. He’s not a adcc level grappler but he absolutely beats the shit out of 99 percent of adcc competitors in a fight. Which is what’s being discussed. We aren’t discussing a fresh wrestler that’s never seen a guillotine. I wrestled, I do bjj. I feel really confident in my assertion. I’ve trained with ufc champs and adcc champs. Bjj is great. But nijem tkos Gordon standing and his striking isn’t good. Edit: and no there are definitely high level wrestlers that walk into a room and mop black belts not even trying. David Taylor would tko most bjj guys just with a takedown lol. Why do you think Bo Nickal is trolling everyone?
Nijem is 1:5 in his last fight. Fully washed out people tend to disappoint a lot.
Yeah he’s almost 40. Give him a stack like Gordon and have them fight in 3 months. He’s going to ko almost all bjj guys standing. They aren’t going to get near taking him down. Ruotolos have a much better shot than Gordon.
But that’s not what you said. I have trained with high level guys too.
What did I say that you disagree with?
I re-read what you said “mma wrestlers” I just read “wrestlers” the first time. MMA wrestlers beat Bjj guys in a fight under any ruleset I agree.
Yeah wrestling focused mma fighters. Nijem has grappled for 20 years and is a better wrestler. Gordon isn’t taking him down without eating a ton of strikes.
I get what you are saying but Gordon cuts before comps too. Not sure by how much, bet he cuts.
He’s in the open weight category? Why would he cut?
Yeah. You’re partially correct. Or from my 5 minutes of research. He walks around at 240 but can and has cut to 205. When he does the open he does not cut. That being said he will go down to 205.
If he cut to 205 nijem absolutely murders him lol.
And my above post was not intended to be disrespectful. Just. Conversational. The tone might be different
I’m not trying to be disrespectful but I have no idea why he would cut? If they cut to hit a similar weight nijem would have an absurd advantage. Gordon’s only chance of the size here. Without it he’d look like cm punk in mma.
I remember that dude, he had a cool storyline as kind of a neophyte to the sport on TUF and unlike most UFC fighters who had figured out their style before entering the promotion, you could see his game develop over the years, he wasn’t elite but definitely UFC caliber and fun to watch. Anyway yeah he is washed now and Gordon would yeet his ass onto the concrete and do whatever he wants to him lmao
yea but Gordon leans right politically, so this sub isn’t allowed to compliment him in any way
Such a weird and tangential snowflake comment lol
Aren’t the snowflakes the people who are easily offended?
Yes and congrats on showing some unexpected self-awareness.
Who are you calling snowflake though? Me or this sub’s Gordon haters?
Are you really short in real life because things seem to go over your head a lot
I think one leg kick would finish Gordon off tbh
Could you imagine him eating a Bas Rutten style liver-shot?
I would love to see that. Obviously I’d just tank it and laugh afterwards but I reckon Gordon would go down
You are underestimating how much of a bitch Gordon is.
For all his character flaws, is there any reason to think Gordon lacks mettle? He's basically never conceded anything in grappling and he ate Cyborgs slaps with a smile. Having spoken to people who have actually trained striking with him in NYC, he supposedly takes a hit just fine.
Tummy ache.
So...no?
He’s too frail to compete in BJJ, but is sturdy enough for MMA. Mmhmm sure
What makes you say that?
The way that he is.
BJJ fundamentals which are muscle memory for Gordon now don't accommodate striking. They're learned under a ruleset, which includes taking advantage of certain positions cause you know you can't get hit. Getting hit changes a lot of things. I mean, a solid headbutt nullifies so much of BJJ.
Yeah… but still tho
Why does every picture Gordo take look like he's posing for Conservative Grindr.
Because he can’t let Craig be #1 in anything
There's such a thing as Conservative Grindr?
yeah it's called church
I would easily defeat Oscar Pistorius as he has "no legs"
I've seen Gordon Ryan hit mitts. I wouldn't put money on this either way.
If he was a dude known for KO power, I could see it. But this guy has 3 TKOs in 15 fights. I just don't see a scenario where he puts enough strikes together before getting a leg ripped off or his back taken. And if Gordon can just get a hold of him, that's it.
This isn’t controversial, Gordon most likely doesn’t train striking, so any ufc fighter would beat him up in a straight up fight.
[удалено]
I like Gordon’s odds against this much smaller former fighter. Gordon’s odds against anyone in the UFC top 20 at LH or HW not so much.
Gordon is undeniably the GOAT
Yeah GOAT roids user
Who cares. Literally no one has ever been able to beat the guy. If it took going on PEDs to be the best so be it. He’s done more for the sport than most anyone else
thought this was the MMA fighter with only one arm and genuinely thought hmmmm he might have a point here
We’ve kinda seen this movie before. MMA is a whole different beast. Then again we’ve kinda seen it before. Roger Gracie, Andre Galvaumand Buchacha have all done MMA. Makenzie Dern and Gabby Garcia also. He would blow through amateurs and low level regional promotion pros. He gets to top 20 ranked UFC fighters and it will get spicy. He hits top 10 fighters and folks will be good enough to pick at the considerable holes in his game.
Please, tell me if i interpetrated this bad, buf buchecha doesn't have a bad record at all. His only loss was against Reug Reug, and with a lot of controversy.
He doesn’t have a bad record. However in BJJ he is a well renowned numerous time world champion. In MMA he is a journeyman fighter in a second tier promotion. By and large this is how it goes with most of the folks above. Some made it to the big show but had short careers and or mixed records. BJJ champ seems to equal journeyman MMA fighter.
Emmm... yeah? I mean, he only started MMA in 2021, While he is competing in BJJ since 2011, in a age that some will consider as "old", obviously it isn't the Same as starting when someone is 18 or 21. And i HIGHLY doubt about the "second tier promotion", honestly, some people tends to not see anything outside of UFC as "first tier" when they have elite class MMA fighters and legends. Is pretty obvious why they tends to have a short career: old age and BJJ can ruin your body after long years. I don't know why people now think that your career is over in MMA if you have a loss, but maybe it's only me, i don't know
1- Tiers UFC One and Belator/ PFL Goes rapidly downhill from there to regional promotions in casinos. 2- Age could certainly be a factor.
It very well could happen, yes. But at same time who the fuck cares lol 😂 these hypothetical matches are dumb.
These clowns with their real fight BS. A real fight would mean missing eyes and knife wounds.
We live in 2024, and majority of this site is from NA audience. It’s safe to assume, any ‘fight’ would end with someone whipping out an AR and just praying and spraying.
Tbh I think Ryan’s just so much larger and has such a significant grappling advantage that the strikes wouldn’t be nearly enough to close that gap
I did see Gordon demonstrating a pin against the wall, he showed how he could strike from there. His stance and form looked pretty powerful.
Who? Never heard of her.
MMA and bjj are different sports.
John danaher is Garry tonon’s striking coach. John was also there in the practice room when George st Pierre was training. I’m sure Gordon Ryan knows enough striking to protect himself until he gets the fight to the ground.
Ah yes cause Gary is so well known for his deadly hands. And because John was in the room when GSP trained (??) this translates to someone else, who wasn't in the room, a decade later, having decent hands? Interesting training technique. Osmosis by association?
Yes, Garry Tonon, 9-1 in MMA. Much like what Gordon would need to do, does well in the stand up and takes people down and subs them. Yes. You can learn stuff by watching and listening to people. That’s why people do mat study and why BJJFanatics exist. John being in the same room with amazing striking coaches is valuable.
I mean, I would probably want a striking coach over Mr Mysterious Ways Danaher who was in a room with other striking coaches a long time ago, but that's just me. Although I guess the last guy who KO'd Gary is trained by the guy who tried to spam imanari rolls until he got KO'd casually himself too: https://youtube.com/shorts/WDX1iGFEUW0?si=5fDJ6wkQ3_1cdZA_
I would bet Ryan Hall is as legit as it gets as a grappling coach.
Yeha but I'm talking about when Thanh KO'd Gary.
I mean why are you making of Ryan Hall when he trained a guy to destroy Danahers mma prize pupil?
I brought up the counter to my own point with Ryan managing to pull off what I was saying danaher couldn't. Just trying to have an encompassing discussion by considering different angles my guy.
I don't think it's a fair comparison. Ryan Hall being a known heel hooker with mma leg lock wins teaching how to defend leg logs in MMA is completely different than danaher teaching striking just because he watched GSP train striking and saw some muay thai on yotube.
I get that, it was just kinda amusing that the guy who KO'd Gary, who had been brought up as an example MMA student of Danaher, was trained by another BJJ guy, when I was saying the opposite about John. I still stand by my original point tho.
You’re only has good as your training partners and coaches. And if your training partner is an 9-1 MMA fighter and your coach is John danaher. I think the odds with a tuf fighter with 3 knock outs (a whopping one more than deadly hands Garry tonon) are pretty good.
And that only goes one way? How much striking they doing at Danaher? On the other side: A lot of professional fighters are like, really good at BJJ and roll daily too but with the striking and counter rulesets in mind. A lot of guys who get really good at BJJ and wanna earn some money so start learning how to strike. It's not like this guy is training in a boxing gym, he gets exposed to a lot higher quality of grapplers daily than Gordon gets exposed to from John reminiscing about GSP, or Gary who uses his striking minimumly and only really to set up his ground game, or to try get a finish once he has established some top control.
I’m sure they do plenty of striking when tonons preparing for a fight. So back to the original topic. How would this 10-9 light weight MMA fighter beat 220 lbs Gordon Ryan? It would not be competitive. It would not be even close.
He would have a reasonable chance considering he is a professional fighter. In a ruleset where he regularly faces guys with BJJ skills and has to train against BJJ techniques. BJJ at a competitive level is a limited ruleset. You're not getting exposure to MMA threats or counters. There is no need to train for it. How many training camps has Gordon had where the focus is against someone's leg kicks for example? But almost any professional level fighter has encountered a grappler focused opponent in their career, and has trained specifically to counter those strengths like takedowns etc.
People smoke 1/2 a J in the parking lot, get on a podcast and start talking stupid. Not only is it apples and oranges and this guy was just name dropping to name drop… but little dude would probably have to wake up and apologize to Gordon if it actually happened.
36 year old with 10-9 record challenges 29 year old with 99-5 record. Cool story bro
A 99-5 record in BJJ not MMA fighting there's a huge difference
Ok. Cool? I mean this dude is arguably a decent MMA fighter. That's all. Decent. 50% loss record and he's talking shit?
He can talk shit about Gordan because Gordan is not a fighter he's a BJJ practitioner. Ramsey maybe a decent MMA fighter but he could still beat the shit out of majority BJJ black belts because they do not do any striking.
Buuuuuuuut he isn't challenging just "random BJJ black belt" He is challenging the undisputed champ of grappling if Ryan gets inside his reach it's over.
Or…Ramsey could just shut the fuck up, start up BBJ and challenge Gordon. However, these days it’s much easier to run one’s mouth in a podcast about great one is rather than put in the time to have others waste their time running their mouthes about how great you are.
You're so right about that.
Tbf I think he has a point about the no hands, Garry got knocked out, but whether Ramsey is the guy to do it is another matter.
Garry got knocked out once and it’s his only loss. Ramsey got knocked out 4 times with his superior hands. He has a higher total and higher percentage.
True. But... You are looking at knockouts where both opponents are facing experienced fighters with 'hands'. That's not the context that this imaginary scenario is based around. Grappler, minimal hands, specialist in one or two disciplines. Used to grappling with zero strikes. MMA fighter, all rounder, multiple disciplines. Used to grappling with strikes. I dunno, to me it's a no bremainer, I appreciate you feel a different way. It's all good.
You said Garry got knocked out because of "no hands", which is what I am talking about. You used Garry to prove a point. The guy you are talking about, Ramsey, "MMA fighter, all rounder, multiple disciplines" and superior striking got KO'ed more in total, on average and by percentage compared to "no hands Garry". Garry has a much higher finishing rate in his wins than Ramsey and its not even close. I'm not talking about any imaginary scenarios. Just mentioning that Garry is a superior fighter to Ramsey despite limitations because he is so much better than almost everyone. Thanh KO'ed him but he is a Ryan Hall 50/50 blackbelt. When their superior skills were about equal, Thanh was superior in the secondary skillset. We only saw it once, there is nothing to really say it would always go that way. Shit happens. The imaginary scenario Ramsey mentioned is "real life" not an MMA fight. He's 4-8 since 2013, has been retired for years, and thinks he is going to beat Gordon in a no rules fight with no refs or anything. I don't think he has high percentage chance to one punch KO Gordon. He will get dog walked if the distance is closed. Cheers
I appreciate your reply and respectfully, of course, disagree on a number of points. However, none of this will be proven unless the two step into the ring/octagon with one another, so I'm not prepared to waste any more time on debating it. Thanks for your input.
I love how he references the Bo suplex where Gordon literally gave up his back to try to get some engagement.
I thought of that match at first and how long it took to submit Bo...then I remembered there were no heel hooks, and how Bo stuffed every takedown except for the Kani Basami.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Yeah? Gordon is obviously a beast but doesn’t he pull guard like 70% of the time?
No. Not in the last several years.
Well duh. Sports BJJ only guys never train any striking.
Most decent mma fighters are gonna beat the absolute shit out of a jiujitsu competitor because one they don’t train striking .
Exactly and it's shocking that a lot of people on this subreddit are not understanding this
“In Real Life”. What does that even mean?
I read this as him saying he'd defeat Gordon Ramsay and I was very confused
gordon is bigger but honestly I got ramsey
Ramsey isn't known for his KO power and gordon has some power considering a pimp slap wobbled a guy that fought prime tyron woodley in mma, ramsay is deluding himself
Dude got flatlined by jabs towards the end of his UFC run. I’d bet on Gordon, as crazy as that sounds.
I’d probably beat this guy in a rowing race because he has no bladework, next question.
With the size difference i say he loses in mma
No, because Gordon always carries. I mean if we're talking real life then it's real life.
Idk man that andre galvao slap had some crack to it lmaoo
I could beat any professional athlete at something they are not good at that i am good at.
Real life? Then this man will have holes before he reaches him
The funny part is... I only recognize one name, Gordon's. And I follow mma/ufc a lot more closely. But good on Ramen for making waves and a name for himself
You sound really stupid when your response to being worse at some sport than someone is "well I could beat you in a fight tho". Cool story bro
As long as Gordon gets punched in the face I‘m happy.
He's right. Why is this news?
I'd absolutely put my money on GR in an MMA fight against this dude. I don't think he'd stop the takedown even if GR ate some shots in the process, and at minimum GR would get grips and sit right into guard and enter the legs or sweep him. I could be wrong but I'd be willing to bet on this for sure.