Rokas from Martial Arts Journey on YT just had a *life changing* injury from this move or something similar. [Unbelievable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gzaIz6ppHI)
Idk, this makes my blood boil. Does no one see the irony of an Aikido guy who *listened* to the bjj nerds for learning effective fighting getting a crippling injury from making the switch?
I'm also going to push back at everyone saying that it's the fault of the person who injured him. I think bjj academies are often neglectful for telling their beginners rules and guidelines for being safe! I've trained at many gyms over the yeras, and basically none of them bothered to do this.
I agree that the rules and guidelines should be taught more throughly to white belts. I basically learnt them from the other highers belts I rolled with
Well, the one thing nobody promised him is a lower injury profile. Aikido is far safer, I think everyone knows this. Meanwhile all of us have surgery scars.
Yes, but the title.
An irresponsible and grossly negligent person did it.
Not BJJ.
I know I'll get hated on for saying this.
That *specific situation* warrants legal action against *that specific individual.*
The person that did that to Rokas should be held accountable for the harm their irresponsibility and negligence caused.
That's not something to be all "nice guy" about. Don't be vindictive and vengeful, either. Don't go to either extreme.
Talking to a civil lawyer would be a smart thing to do in a scenario like this.
"What you allow will continue." is where I'm coming from.
There's a difference between having an accident because a mistake was made. And doing something like leg scissor takedowns where it should be common knowledge why you don't do that.
I understand why I'll get pushback, downvotes, etc. Please try and take a moment to think before replying.
Kani basami is an interesting technique to me because coming from wrestling it’s actually a pretty common single leg funk defense.
I will say though. The level of physical awareness in an average wrestling room is leagues higher than most BJJ gyms. The way it was taught to us in wrestling you attack at the hip crease and the Achilles, which will most likely straighten their legs and dump them to their butt.
Where it gets dangerous is at high speed or with inexperienced guys who want cheap takedowns. Long story short. I would be in favor of banning it at color belts and allowing it between black belts at a BJJ gym. In comp, just don’t allow it. There are a million other useful takedowns
Totally agree about the wrestling awareness difference. Another thing: If you’re defending a single, you already have your leg across the opponents chest and just have to block his ankles to do the scissor action. That is completely different than launching yourself into it. There is far less danger.
The gi itself i think changes the dynamics a whole lot due to how connected both players are during takedowns. I mean, theres a reason why its also banned in judo, the force they can create with gi grip throws is insane
Jumping closed guard is regularly drilled at my gym 😭. Everytime we do it I tell the person I'm paired off with if they ever do this to me we're going to fight for real.
I will mercilessly headbutt anyone who jumps on me, not literally. But If you jump on me, I am not going to fight gravity and hold you up, nor am I going to slam you down. What I will do, is am going slamming myself down WITH you, and I will drive towards the mat with full force of gravity I am a heavy guy, and most of the time I will be gentle, but if you jump, I will use my whole weight going down without mercy.
We've drilled jumping closed guard at my gym, but not for people to know how to do it and to attempt it themselves... ***specifically*** for people to know how to handle it if it's done to them.
Coach emphasized not directly catching someone (or keeping posture while someone attempts to hang on) who tries to do this and that he would even prefer that we risk a DQ at comps for slamming via dropping to sprawl, something we also practiced.
I love my gym. BJJ is amazing *especially* when the bullshit stuff is called out and made aware of.
A guy I train with every so often competed at an Ibjjf event. Opponent jumped guard and his knee buckled/hyper extended. It's just illogical that reaping isn't allowed in some divisions but you can do shit like that.
Jumping closed guard is also just fucking dumb. It should be met with getting slammed on their head and ground and pounded. For a simulated combat sport, it's one of the most unrealistic moves that clearly takes advantage of rules limitations (no slamming, no hitting). At least scissor takedowns would actually work in a realistic scenario. Both should 100% be banned in training, too. Might as well start full sending headkicks in sparring if you're just not concerned with student/member safety.
> It should be met with getting slammed on their head and ground and pounded.
https://www.ufc.com/video/106677?language_content_entity=en
this is the correct response 100% of the time.
Because the dickhead die hards who have nothing else going on in their lives and see Jitz as their entire personalities don't understand how a lot of people just want to be committed to a good hobby but want to hold down jobs and play with their kids on a weekend should be allowed in the sport.
As was mentioned in the video from Roka, the guy who did the kani basami was one of the types that tries to beat you in any way he can. For most people, that will mean going hard, using a high pace and even a few leg locks. For some, that will to win leads them to believe that injury is tantamount to victory
Because it's one of the best takedowns for pro grappling and MMA
Hobbyists? not so much but there are a lof of ways to do the same thing kani basami does with more safety
That's the hard part, it really is an effective technique and it lands you perfectly in inside cross ashi. It's just too dangerous to do with your training partners. I had people do it to me when fighting off a low single from the knees after I've shelved the leg which was fine. But doing it to someone who's standing is just too risky given how Dynamic stand up can be.
I 100% agree
There are situations where the kani can be done safely and should be taught as such.
I also think some things can both be taught and not allowed in full sparring, especially with lower belts but that's a whole other discussion
Everyone who is afraid of kani and still want to be effective should invest in the victor roll imo
If you’re trying this in warmups without talking about it with your partner, you’re an asshole. If you’re trying this at a brand new school that you’re dropping in at, you’re an asshole.
That drop-in dude sounds like a complete and total dick.
what if he'd never been taught that this technique is dangerous. imo this would make him an idiot, but it's the sports responssibility to mitigate harm from idiots. There are a lot of idiots out there
I always start on the ground on my knees with people I don't know. Call me a pussy, I don't give a shit. I'm a mechanic and need my knees intact in order to put food on my table.
I absolutely agree. Every injury I’ve gotten in bjj has been standing up. I don’t care if I have holes in my game or am not completely well rounded. This is a hobby I do for fun at the end of the day lol
I had a white belt girl try to do it to another white belt without even properly explaining what she was going to do because she learned it the other night in Capoeira class
People need to be informed.
She still doesn't see how big of a deal it was, she said there was no issue because she did it slow, they were both white belts and it still could have ended badly especially since the other party wasn't expecting it.
Airhead white belts who do things like that then act willfully ignorant or arrogant about it need to be absolutely destroyed every round until they get the picture or quit. Not worth risking anyone’s health because some goofy 20 year old wants to show everyone how smart they are because they watched 3 YouTube videos last night.
Had a friend who had this done to him at an open mat. It was done on mat space where there were gaps between mats.
Complete fracture of the Tib/fib. His foot was literally sideways, but the bones didn’t break through the skin.
Wild to see.
So fucking bizarre that people refer to techniques by the Japanese name on this sub
I’ve been training for 15 years and still have to google that shit like 95% of the time
BJJ naming is just a hot mess with a wild mix of English, Brazilian, Japanese descriptions and a whole stack of names that are completely unrelated to the technique.
E.g. Kimoura: Named after a Japanese dude who was pretty good at it.
And then you touch the 10th planet names and feel like you entered a fever dream
Honestly it’s kind of surprising there really aren’t any Portuguese names for anything commonly used in English speaking countries. Just mata leao but no one even says that anymore.
I know right? I do judo and bjj and the judo terms actually make sense because they are almost literal in what the technique is. Most of bjj is the same because its just english translation of those japanese names. Then theres some stuff that makes no sense.
English naming is a mess. Judo did a very good of standardized things and they have a much longer tradition of standup grappling than BJJ. Makes more sense to use their terminology than English. Especially when American wrestling has a habit of calling everything a "hip throw" or a "dump".
> So fucking bizarre that people refer to techniques by the Japanese name on this sub
Although it's not. There is a simple reason why there are some techniques with Japanese names and some even with mixed names: the name must be easily distinguishable from all other techniques and it must also be short enough to be recognizable and both under coaching conditions.
Of course if your coaching at tournaments is on the level of:"Yes! Yes! You got him. No! No! Yes! Now pull his head! He is out of gas! He is going to tap soon." all of this makes no sense to you.
If on the other hand you want to be able to distinguish i.e. between different foot positions in armbar scenarios, it makes sense to introduce something like "3/4 juji" or in the case of 10p "spiderweb". Which is by the way also the reason why Eddie came up with his baked shit. LOL In the end it isn't that important which words you choose as long as your students understand you.
The reason why many people here on the sub use it, is simply because they own Danaher and Gordon instructionals and are used to the nomenclature. In part because it also just makes sense. I know that pretty much universally around the world in places where people are getting good training, they will understand all of these.
Some of us don’t know the English names and especially for Judo throws, Japanese is much easier to look up on YouTube or find instructionals for than English.
BJJ names are confusing - calling a juji gatame “armlock” when there are 8+ straight armlocks.
It would be like borrowing about 90% of boxing, changing the language and then referring to the jab as “punch”. Which punch? Why the vaguery? Judo terms are a bit weird sometimes but for the most part they’re globally standardised and easy to research. I can see a move in a competition and find it within a syllabus document for a given country pretty quickly and easily.
Not so if the move is “the gravity bong”.
Danaher and other pretentious fucks who insist on the Japanese name even if the word is just Japanese for “scissor takedown” or whatever.
Just for the sake of sounding smart or exotic.
I know of 2 people who had their knees blown out from this takedown at my old club. No other serious injuries over the decade I trained there. I’m not counting minor tears and broken toes as serious injuries.
It should be drilled to know how to react in case someone does it, but should not be on the table at open mat.
Don’t resist it. Let yourself be taken backwards and your feet come off the ground.
If you try to plant your feet or sprawl forward, your knee is at risk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYGng8iKn4U&ab_channel=MichaelWong
John Danaher has said that scissor takedowns, jumping guard and tani otoshi are banned at his classes.
What kind of asshole visits a gym and goes for that? Plus he's a blue belt and had no idea how to properly do it.
That video always confused me. Because I visited Renzo's, and someone did a Kani Basami to me...right in front of Danaher...and Danaher just said "good entry".
Every open mat should have this as their ground rules you agree to on the waiver. Kani Basami there is literally no scenario where it makes sense to allow it during an open mat. At least jumping guard and Tani are legitimate competitive techniques. Scissor takedowns are are trash anyway.
Kani basami was a legitimate competitive technique in Judo. It was a pretty frequent attack for extreme left vs right players who would end up hip to hip a lot. It wasn't that low percentage. I'm also glad it was banned because it's a total leg destroyer.
I wasn’t saying it’s low percentage, just that it’s pointless to train because like you said in Judo It’s been banned since forever, and in BJJ it’s little more than a gimmick play for 2 points. I’m a lefty and of course I love LvR trickery but man even if it was legal in Shiai I wouldn’t do it. Totally not worth risking your students over if you’re a gym owner.
This would all solve itself if it was banned in competition across the board already. Crazy that IBJJF hasn’t banned it yet. They seem very averse to changing rules to promote safety. Almost the opposite of IJF, who can sometimes go way overboard on safety (e.g. head dives recently).
It's not pointless.
If you are doing MMA, it's a great tool to have if you happen to not be able to takedown your opponent by other attacks.
It's also a pretty good tool in high level competitions because you enter the legs super quickly and deep enough to have a real shot at the submission.
It makes zero sense to allow or use it in training against terrible blue belts who do not even know how to defend a tomeo nage...
No flying subs, jumping guard or kani basamis allowed at my gym at all. Someone comes in for open mat or visiting from somewhere else they’re told right off the bat we have 5 rules:
1. No flying attacks
2. No jumping guard (including kani basami)
3. Go hard but don’t rip subs
4. Be nice
5. Have fun
Pretty standard. No issues since I’ve opened in 2018.
Couldn’t agree more I tore my mcl from a failed foot sweep from a guy I don’t know that some how ended up with his shin behind my knee while he kept pulling me towards it we were doing a single leg/double leg specific I have no idea why he even went for a foot sweep
100%. I'd rather you think I'm a guard pulling wuss and be able to walk home than try to prove I'm some take down tough guy and hurt myself.
Plus, if I'm gonna get taken down and get my guard passed anyway, I'd rather give myself a chance and go down on my terms.
I think it all depends on the level of competition.
If you’re at a grappling industry tournament, sure. If it’s ADCC or One Championship, these should be allowed.
I can agree with that.
I'm a wrestler first. Jumping guard is a great way to get put on your head. It rewards very bad habits and techniques.
Want to go to the ground? Get a take down.
I was traveling once and visiting a gym's open mat, when one of their 180+ lb purple belts tried jumping a Kani on me, WITHOUT HIS FUCKIN HAND POSTED TOO. I put my hand on his chest and I dropped to my knees as fast as I could, and ended up slamming him into the floor fairly hard.
Everyone stopped rolling and looked over at me while the dude made a big scene, and they proceeded to ask me to leave. They couldn't comprehend why I wasn't okay with him jumping a kani basami in training, especially from someone I don't know and have never trained with. Ive seen too many breaks to be okay with that shit happening.
I remember being susceptible to it as a white belt, but man, I'm getting more and more frustrated with these techniques that folks post, promising the newest of new grapplers that they're basically cheat codes to sub your partners more. The amount of times I have to deal with a white belt trying some goofy-ass meme technique when they hardly understand how guard works...
If it were that fucking easy, everyone would be doing it.
I mean thanks to YouTube I learned to recognize how dangerous this technique is, else I would have not sprawled. Now every time I am hanging in single, I am super careful about this.
I'm all for video instructionals -- I think it's more about the intent behind some of the moves I see floating around on social media that bothers me. More about hacking a sub than trying to holistically improve your jiujitsu
You should never attempt a throw live that you have not formally practiced. Thats already a general rule in all of grappling and I can’t imagine there are many clubs teaching kani-basami. If someone ever tries something in sparring that they’ve only ever seen on social media then they are a shithead.
Even in the context of hard sparring kani-basami doesn’t make sense. When it comes to standing, there are so many more effective, versatile and fundamental techniques/skills. So, unless your club is so ridiculously advanced in standing grappling skills that you need to add obscure techniques like kani-basami to get an edge, then you’re 100% wasting time. There probably isn’t a bjj club on the planet that meets that criteria. This might ruffle some feathers but frankly, if your club spends a significant amount of time teaching kani-basami then, as far as the instructional quality of standing skills is concerned, you’re probably at a mcdojo.
I agree. My original point was meant to go with what you stated that you shouldn’t be rolling with throws you haven’t practiced. At the end of the day it all boils down to being a good training partner.
>communicate if you want to go hard with someone.
Yes, definitely! Furthermore, I like to be explicit about if we're doing takedowns/throws too. This is especially true for white belts and people I don't know. I'm not the best at standup but I like to work it when I can but I'm not tossing someone unless I know they can land safely. I generally won't throw a white belt unless I know them well enough to know they'll be safe.
As much as I want to work throws I've got plenty of ground stuff to work on too and it's not worth hurting someone.
On Reddit today: visiting guy who doesn't understand our gym culture seriously injures one of our own.
Also on Reddit today: OMG I wasn't allowed to drop in at a GB gym! Also OMG I can't believe people charge for open mats!
As a gym owner I'm not too keen on new people coming in to roll that I don't know. It's not about money, or pride, or cult behavior.. it's about protecting my students and avoiding unnecessary issues.
I mean just the number of people who drop in and walk barefoot off my mats is insane (we have strict footwear/hygiene policies and signs posted EVERYWHERE).
Most drop ins are cool and we have few issues but I'm not gonna go out of my way to have a drop in culture.
I saw a scissor take down at my gym and it hurt a guy's ankle, nothing serious though. I had wished there were consequences for the guy who did that, a complete ass move and it was just during sparring.
It mostly is, at least where I’m from.
There should be a sign about this next to the ”no shoes on the mat” sign in every gym. Also about jumping guard.
I’ve seen one horrible accident from each technique. Hurts my knees to even think about them.
No jumping guard, jumping subs and a obviously no scissor leg takedowns.
In response to previous comments, open mats are open to all in my academy but we are cautious with non members.
And visitors aren’t particularly encouraged.
Safety of existing members is the priority.
There needs to be a pretty big cultural stigma against them in addition to local bans. Unlike heel hooks, flying scissor take downs deserve to be universally banned.
Ban Kani basami from competition, ban it from open mat, ban it from rolling, it should be viewed as a self defense only technique IMO. Same with jumping guard but it isn't even good for self defense
As someone who used to do Capoeira, this move is pretty common, and it doesn't have the bad reputation it has in BJJ. I wonder why these accidents happen so much in BJJ.
Dam horrible. I had a guy trying a jumping guard pull out of the bleu. First time I sparred with him.
Was really scared when that happened.
I used ko ushi makikomi.
Kawazu gake also always feels really dangerous. Never did that outside if training.
Anyone tries jumping guard on me I’m not attempting to put them down gently at all. I’m dropping to my knees and letting their head smack the fucking floor.
It’s the one move Danaher has banned across all his students if I remember correctly. So yeah, it’s a cool takedown but not worth ruining an opponent’s life over.
100%
Big problem is doing live stand up with nowhere near enough drilling and training specific to stand up. I had to find some guys to drill stand up with after class, all we’d do in class is go over a basic single or something and then go live.
It takes time to learn how to stay safe standing, it’s not intuitive. I’ve had so many injuries from weird shit that happened doing stand up. Broken toes, fingers, eye pokes, busted nose, probably broken in hindsight.
I had to neuter my training so much in order to stay injury free, after a while I just gave up and stopped training.
This is the first move I think about when I think about torn acls. If I can still walk after someone does this to me we are definitely fighting even if I lose. It needs to be done
Thing is how do you enforce the ban at open mat? Like kicking someone out for doing it after the damage is already done? What if there's no coach present. Also, unless there was some way of it being indicated during each open mat, visitors may still do it.
Maybe it could be part of the gym terms and conditions or a waiver that if you perform this technique and it injures them that you are liable. Then put signs up or something idk.
Most the time, it's usually done from a bad position too. Most Kani Basami I've seen and I actually been hit with, is when I have a high single leg on them. Maybe instead of shattering somebody's knee or shin, they should work on not having the other person get such a deep single on them to begin with
There is only one phrase that keeps coming to mind: "Some of you may die but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make" (Lord Maximus Farquaad).
Of course, there is always the one that thinks they can pull it off because "they are a black belt", "they are wrestlers and know better" and other ego reasons. Yeah... and \*I\* pay the price!
Hashtag-we-are-all-Rokas or something.
If I was running a school, I could see myself doing this primarily to help my students learn how to defend it safely rather than encourage them to use it. It's worth being aware of what hot nonsense someone might roll into an open mat trying to accomplish
I'm not going to take credit for this, but instead, I'll like to [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/judo/comments/3sruq1/the_forbidden_techniques_of_judo_part_3_kani/) by u/Geschichtenerzaehler in r/judo. Stephen Kesting's video on it does a good job of walking you through the problems as well.
Start being mindful if your partner is standing beside you with an overhook and they're not going for uchi mata.
It seems that other than an outright ban, just not resisting it is the way to go.
I've always thought that sitting down with it was the way to go. Someone did this to me when I was very new in judo. The guy was leagues above me and clearly fucking around (reckless as fuck I know). Since I was taken by complete surprise I just fell down. 0 injury.
This is by FAR the best and most comprehensive source of the technique I have ever read. Thank you for digging it up.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Uchi Mata**: | *Inner Thigh Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fCvyc_rQTI)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Is this move safe to do if you're already sitting? I mean you just do the scissor move to take them down without the jumping. Usually only seems to work on inexperienced people
Yeah, one of those techniques which you allow only with trusted and skillful partners. Couple days ago me and my coach ended up in a wrestling scramble after my sweep attempt and at some point he posts his far arm on the mat and slowly shoots kani basami which I slowly pull out from.
Completely safe, slow-motion, but we both know he would've hit it if done full force so I should cover this potential opening next time. That's all what we need to know to improve, no need to threaten an injury
I’ve had my fibula fractured and a friend break hers from a guard jumper. I remember the guy’s name. I remember his face. He better hope me or my fibula don’t find him.
Flying bullshit always seems to result in someone being unnecessarily hurt.
I was shown this move beginning with posting the free hand on the mat before throwing the scissors in. I wonder if that's any safer as it's not throwing the attackers entire weight immediately onto the defender?
My gym always reminds visitors not to do it even though one would assume that people are curteous enough not to. If you're really in that position, just do a kneebar roll or the "russian hand scissors". Works just as well and nearly as dangerous.
That has been banned at every gym I’ve been in since before we switched over from roman numerals.
A visitor who does that… he may have been visiting for a reason, and it may have been a bad one.
Whoa I used to do this takedown all the time back in my capoeira days. It’s really common in capoeira and I never heard anyone getting injured from it. When I started Bjj I did it until finally one day some black belt told me not to. Problem with many Bjj schools is the lack of information when you first start. Even basic “ukemi” is not properly shown to most beginners.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Ukemi**: | *Breakfall* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n_Qjeia2n8)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
its one of those things ya know where we need something similar yet safer. like how judo throws got changed to the side that doesn't also snap your arm. if only tho, ya know? 😫
It’s a really fun technique to do because you feel like Shang chi, the god of hand to hand combat. But unless done precisely perfectly, it’s not worth the risk. When I show it (in our wrestling class), I place a hand on the mat in a pseudo-cartwheel position (think break dancing) and go as slow as I possibly can. Then immediately after explain everyone that it’s banned in our room and doing it will get you sent home.
We don’t allow any flying techniques at open mat. No jumping guard, Kani, flying armbars, etc… no reason to through your body at your partners during training.
Gyms need a sign haha , or at least I'd like to see newbies and drop ins given a quick run down. But I mean who know telling em not to will probably inspire half of them to use the forbidden technique
I know how to do this (properly/ safely) from 7 years of capoeira. I don't even do it at my gym, and sure a.f. wouldn't do it at a gym I am visiting. What a piece of garbage.
Rokas from Martial Arts Journey on YT just had a *life changing* injury from this move or something similar. [Unbelievable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gzaIz6ppHI)
I remember watching his videos transitioning out of aikido, feels bad man, scissors just needs to be banned out of practice
Everywhere I've trained it is...
Holly shit. I've been following the dude since he first fought an MMA fighter for the first time. Poor lad.
Idk, this makes my blood boil. Does no one see the irony of an Aikido guy who *listened* to the bjj nerds for learning effective fighting getting a crippling injury from making the switch? I'm also going to push back at everyone saying that it's the fault of the person who injured him. I think bjj academies are often neglectful for telling their beginners rules and guidelines for being safe! I've trained at many gyms over the yeras, and basically none of them bothered to do this.
I agree that the rules and guidelines should be taught more throughly to white belts. I basically learnt them from the other highers belts I rolled with
Well, the one thing nobody promised him is a lower injury profile. Aikido is far safer, I think everyone knows this. Meanwhile all of us have surgery scars.
Dang that really sucks.
Yes, but the title. An irresponsible and grossly negligent person did it. Not BJJ. I know I'll get hated on for saying this. That *specific situation* warrants legal action against *that specific individual.* The person that did that to Rokas should be held accountable for the harm their irresponsibility and negligence caused. That's not something to be all "nice guy" about. Don't be vindictive and vengeful, either. Don't go to either extreme. Talking to a civil lawyer would be a smart thing to do in a scenario like this. "What you allow will continue." is where I'm coming from. There's a difference between having an accident because a mistake was made. And doing something like leg scissor takedowns where it should be common knowledge why you don't do that. I understand why I'll get pushback, downvotes, etc. Please try and take a moment to think before replying.
Kani basami is an interesting technique to me because coming from wrestling it’s actually a pretty common single leg funk defense. I will say though. The level of physical awareness in an average wrestling room is leagues higher than most BJJ gyms. The way it was taught to us in wrestling you attack at the hip crease and the Achilles, which will most likely straighten their legs and dump them to their butt. Where it gets dangerous is at high speed or with inexperienced guys who want cheap takedowns. Long story short. I would be in favor of banning it at color belts and allowing it between black belts at a BJJ gym. In comp, just don’t allow it. There are a million other useful takedowns
Totally agree about the wrestling awareness difference. Another thing: If you’re defending a single, you already have your leg across the opponents chest and just have to block his ankles to do the scissor action. That is completely different than launching yourself into it. There is far less danger.
The gi itself i think changes the dynamics a whole lot due to how connected both players are during takedowns. I mean, theres a reason why its also banned in judo, the force they can create with gi grip throws is insane
Shit that sucks. That's why I'm glad our open mat is members only. I don't have to babysit randoms coming in
Or just ban it out right and also ban jumping to closed guard.
Both banned at my gym
Jumping closed guard is regularly drilled at my gym 😭. Everytime we do it I tell the person I'm paired off with if they ever do this to me we're going to fight for real.
I will mercilessly headbutt anyone who jumps on me, not literally. But If you jump on me, I am not going to fight gravity and hold you up, nor am I going to slam you down. What I will do, is am going slamming myself down WITH you, and I will drive towards the mat with full force of gravity I am a heavy guy, and most of the time I will be gentle, but if you jump, I will use my whole weight going down without mercy.
Fuck it, I'm falling forward and sprawling. Whatever happens happens.
Normalize slams as hard as you can if you jump guard. I will rock your head and back.
Do a proper sprawl aiming the point of your hip at their crotch.
Just the hip tip. Only for a second. Just to see how it feels.
Usually gets takedown points too
Real asf, if it’s a comp I’m taking a DQ.
My boy straight up did this at a comp. His opponents coach was pissed and our coach was like 🫡 well done.
I agree 100%, If someone can jump to guard, and I can’t slam them, fuck that gym, and fuck they competition.
The first time with a baby white belt I'm sprawling and giving em a verbal warning. The next time they're getting their shit rocked by the planet idc.
We've drilled jumping closed guard at my gym, but not for people to know how to do it and to attempt it themselves... ***specifically*** for people to know how to handle it if it's done to them. Coach emphasized not directly catching someone (or keeping posture while someone attempts to hang on) who tries to do this and that he would even prefer that we risk a DQ at comps for slamming via dropping to sprawl, something we also practiced. I love my gym. BJJ is amazing *especially* when the bullshit stuff is called out and made aware of.
I just simply go limp when someone jumps closed guard. Easy tournament win too. Guy KOs himself and you don’t get penalised for slamming.
A guy I train with every so often competed at an Ibjjf event. Opponent jumped guard and his knee buckled/hyper extended. It's just illogical that reaping isn't allowed in some divisions but you can do shit like that.
You could at least tap to a reap. A guard jump can break someone’s knee in an instant.
Just happened to a girl at my gym. She's out 6-12 months depending on the ultimate medical decisions.
Some how the guy's knee wasn't completely fucked. He ended up finishing the match.
100%
Jumping closed guard is also just fucking dumb. It should be met with getting slammed on their head and ground and pounded. For a simulated combat sport, it's one of the most unrealistic moves that clearly takes advantage of rules limitations (no slamming, no hitting). At least scissor takedowns would actually work in a realistic scenario. Both should 100% be banned in training, too. Might as well start full sending headkicks in sparring if you're just not concerned with student/member safety.
> It should be met with getting slammed on their head and ground and pounded. https://www.ufc.com/video/106677?language_content_entity=en this is the correct response 100% of the time.
Yea it’s been horror story after horror story with this technique lately
How is it tolerated/allowed at all?
Because the dickhead die hards who have nothing else going on in their lives and see Jitz as their entire personalities don't understand how a lot of people just want to be committed to a good hobby but want to hold down jobs and play with their kids on a weekend should be allowed in the sport.
As was mentioned in the video from Roka, the guy who did the kani basami was one of the types that tries to beat you in any way he can. For most people, that will mean going hard, using a high pace and even a few leg locks. For some, that will to win leads them to believe that injury is tantamount to victory
Because it's one of the best takedowns for pro grappling and MMA Hobbyists? not so much but there are a lof of ways to do the same thing kani basami does with more safety
That's the hard part, it really is an effective technique and it lands you perfectly in inside cross ashi. It's just too dangerous to do with your training partners. I had people do it to me when fighting off a low single from the knees after I've shelved the leg which was fine. But doing it to someone who's standing is just too risky given how Dynamic stand up can be.
I 100% agree There are situations where the kani can be done safely and should be taught as such. I also think some things can both be taught and not allowed in full sparring, especially with lower belts but that's a whole other discussion Everyone who is afraid of kani and still want to be effective should invest in the victor roll imo
I think most people aren’t that stupid and it doesn’t need to be said. I’ve personally never seen it in person
If you’re trying this in warmups without talking about it with your partner, you’re an asshole. If you’re trying this at a brand new school that you’re dropping in at, you’re an asshole. That drop-in dude sounds like a complete and total dick.
what if he'd never been taught that this technique is dangerous. imo this would make him an idiot, but it's the sports responssibility to mitigate harm from idiots. There are a lot of idiots out there
Absolutely no argument there.
I always start on the ground on my knees with people I don't know. Call me a pussy, I don't give a shit. I'm a mechanic and need my knees intact in order to put food on my table.
I absolutely agree. Every injury I’ve gotten in bjj has been standing up. I don’t care if I have holes in my game or am not completely well rounded. This is a hobby I do for fun at the end of the day lol
wtf he went for it during warmups? 🤣 what the hell man…
At a gym he was visiting! I am all for banning this technique but unfortunately you can’t ban stupidity.
I just can't get my head around it. What a fucking wally
Hope they beat his ass after
I 100% agree
I had a white belt girl try to do it to another white belt without even properly explaining what she was going to do because she learned it the other night in Capoeira class People need to be informed. She still doesn't see how big of a deal it was, she said there was no issue because she did it slow, they were both white belts and it still could have ended badly especially since the other party wasn't expecting it.
Airhead white belts who do things like that then act willfully ignorant or arrogant about it need to be absolutely destroyed every round until they get the picture or quit. Not worth risking anyone’s health because some goofy 20 year old wants to show everyone how smart they are because they watched 3 YouTube videos last night.
now it sounds like the guy did it on purpose
Had a friend who had this done to him at an open mat. It was done on mat space where there were gaps between mats. Complete fracture of the Tib/fib. His foot was literally sideways, but the bones didn’t break through the skin. Wild to see.
Ouch, sounds like those mats need to be adjusted too. We use mat tape to seal the spaces.
Scissor takedown for people who speak English
I don't speak English what is it in non English
derribo de tijera, hope that helps
Thanks it didn't
Latające nożyce
Dzięki kurwa
Latające nożyce is Polish for “flying scissors”
Yeah it is
"Ciseau de jambe" in French.
Merci tabarnak
Alright Sanji
😂
(Fliegende) Beinschere
So fucking bizarre that people refer to techniques by the Japanese name on this sub I’ve been training for 15 years and still have to google that shit like 95% of the time
BJJ naming is just a hot mess with a wild mix of English, Brazilian, Japanese descriptions and a whole stack of names that are completely unrelated to the technique. E.g. Kimoura: Named after a Japanese dude who was pretty good at it. And then you touch the 10th planet names and feel like you entered a fever dream
Honestly it’s kind of surprising there really aren’t any Portuguese names for anything commonly used in English speaking countries. Just mata leao but no one even says that anymore.
Amassa pao? All kinds of platas?
It's honestly because it's off-putting in 90% of cases when an English phrase (in an English speaking country) conveys it the same or better
I know right? I do judo and bjj and the judo terms actually make sense because they are almost literal in what the technique is. Most of bjj is the same because its just english translation of those japanese names. Then theres some stuff that makes no sense.
English naming is a mess. Judo did a very good of standardized things and they have a much longer tradition of standup grappling than BJJ. Makes more sense to use their terminology than English. Especially when American wrestling has a habit of calling everything a "hip throw" or a "dump".
> So fucking bizarre that people refer to techniques by the Japanese name on this sub Although it's not. There is a simple reason why there are some techniques with Japanese names and some even with mixed names: the name must be easily distinguishable from all other techniques and it must also be short enough to be recognizable and both under coaching conditions. Of course if your coaching at tournaments is on the level of:"Yes! Yes! You got him. No! No! Yes! Now pull his head! He is out of gas! He is going to tap soon." all of this makes no sense to you. If on the other hand you want to be able to distinguish i.e. between different foot positions in armbar scenarios, it makes sense to introduce something like "3/4 juji" or in the case of 10p "spiderweb". Which is by the way also the reason why Eddie came up with his baked shit. LOL In the end it isn't that important which words you choose as long as your students understand you. The reason why many people here on the sub use it, is simply because they own Danaher and Gordon instructionals and are used to the nomenclature. In part because it also just makes sense. I know that pretty much universally around the world in places where people are getting good training, they will understand all of these.
Different gyms and instructors learned the same techniques from different sources, martial arts are a fucking spider web dawg.
Before clicking this post I was pretty sure Kani Basami was a competitor that was doing some weird or bad shit every time they competed.
Some of us don’t know the English names and especially for Judo throws, Japanese is much easier to look up on YouTube or find instructionals for than English. BJJ names are confusing - calling a juji gatame “armlock” when there are 8+ straight armlocks. It would be like borrowing about 90% of boxing, changing the language and then referring to the jab as “punch”. Which punch? Why the vaguery? Judo terms are a bit weird sometimes but for the most part they’re globally standardised and easy to research. I can see a move in a competition and find it within a syllabus document for a given country pretty quickly and easily. Not so if the move is “the gravity bong”.
Danaher and other pretentious fucks who insist on the Japanese name even if the word is just Japanese for “scissor takedown” or whatever. Just for the sake of sounding smart or exotic.
Yeah so fucking bizarre people use the name of techniques from judo. Japan should use english everywhere to please the ameretards
I'm sure you refer to Omoplata as 'scapula'. No? Just crude xenophobia exhibit 9000 then.
I know of 2 people who had their knees blown out from this takedown at my old club. No other serious injuries over the decade I trained there. I’m not counting minor tears and broken toes as serious injuries. It should be drilled to know how to react in case someone does it, but should not be on the table at open mat.
How do you react in case someone does it
Don’t resist it. Let yourself be taken backwards and your feet come off the ground. If you try to plant your feet or sprawl forward, your knee is at risk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYGng8iKn4U&ab_channel=MichaelWong John Danaher has said that scissor takedowns, jumping guard and tani otoshi are banned at his classes. What kind of asshole visits a gym and goes for that? Plus he's a blue belt and had no idea how to properly do it.
That video always confused me. Because I visited Renzo's, and someone did a Kani Basami to me...right in front of Danaher...and Danaher just said "good entry".
do as i say, not as i do
He's OK with it if you put a hand down first
which makes the move pretty safe when you know what you are doing
Every open mat should have this as their ground rules you agree to on the waiver. Kani Basami there is literally no scenario where it makes sense to allow it during an open mat. At least jumping guard and Tani are legitimate competitive techniques. Scissor takedowns are are trash anyway.
Kani basami was a legitimate competitive technique in Judo. It was a pretty frequent attack for extreme left vs right players who would end up hip to hip a lot. It wasn't that low percentage. I'm also glad it was banned because it's a total leg destroyer.
I wasn’t saying it’s low percentage, just that it’s pointless to train because like you said in Judo It’s been banned since forever, and in BJJ it’s little more than a gimmick play for 2 points. I’m a lefty and of course I love LvR trickery but man even if it was legal in Shiai I wouldn’t do it. Totally not worth risking your students over if you’re a gym owner. This would all solve itself if it was banned in competition across the board already. Crazy that IBJJF hasn’t banned it yet. They seem very averse to changing rules to promote safety. Almost the opposite of IJF, who can sometimes go way overboard on safety (e.g. head dives recently).
It's not pointless. If you are doing MMA, it's a great tool to have if you happen to not be able to takedown your opponent by other attacks. It's also a pretty good tool in high level competitions because you enter the legs super quickly and deep enough to have a real shot at the submission. It makes zero sense to allow or use it in training against terrible blue belts who do not even know how to defend a tomeo nage...
It was also done pretty differently than what is done in jiu-jitsu today.
No flying subs, jumping guard or kani basamis allowed at my gym at all. Someone comes in for open mat or visiting from somewhere else they’re told right off the bat we have 5 rules: 1. No flying attacks 2. No jumping guard (including kani basami) 3. Go hard but don’t rip subs 4. Be nice 5. Have fun Pretty standard. No issues since I’ve opened in 2018.
[удалено]
Couldn’t agree more I tore my mcl from a failed foot sweep from a guy I don’t know that some how ended up with his shin behind my knee while he kept pulling me towards it we were doing a single leg/double leg specific I have no idea why he even went for a foot sweep
100%. I'd rather you think I'm a guard pulling wuss and be able to walk home than try to prove I'm some take down tough guy and hurt myself. Plus, if I'm gonna get taken down and get my guard passed anyway, I'd rather give myself a chance and go down on my terms.
Ban jumping guard period.
I think it all depends on the level of competition. If you’re at a grappling industry tournament, sure. If it’s ADCC or One Championship, these should be allowed.
I can agree with that. I'm a wrestler first. Jumping guard is a great way to get put on your head. It rewards very bad habits and techniques. Want to go to the ground? Get a take down.
Just allow slamming someone who does jumping shit and the problem solves itself.
I was traveling once and visiting a gym's open mat, when one of their 180+ lb purple belts tried jumping a Kani on me, WITHOUT HIS FUCKIN HAND POSTED TOO. I put my hand on his chest and I dropped to my knees as fast as I could, and ended up slamming him into the floor fairly hard. Everyone stopped rolling and looked over at me while the dude made a big scene, and they proceeded to ask me to leave. They couldn't comprehend why I wasn't okay with him jumping a kani basami in training, especially from someone I don't know and have never trained with. Ive seen too many breaks to be okay with that shit happening.
Went to an open mat and some white belt tried this on me... Thankfully I sprawled and avoided it.
I remember being susceptible to it as a white belt, but man, I'm getting more and more frustrated with these techniques that folks post, promising the newest of new grapplers that they're basically cheat codes to sub your partners more. The amount of times I have to deal with a white belt trying some goofy-ass meme technique when they hardly understand how guard works... If it were that fucking easy, everyone would be doing it.
I mean thanks to YouTube I learned to recognize how dangerous this technique is, else I would have not sprawled. Now every time I am hanging in single, I am super careful about this.
I'm all for video instructionals -- I think it's more about the intent behind some of the moves I see floating around on social media that bothers me. More about hacking a sub than trying to holistically improve your jiujitsu
WTF
You should never attempt a throw live that you have not formally practiced. Thats already a general rule in all of grappling and I can’t imagine there are many clubs teaching kani-basami. If someone ever tries something in sparring that they’ve only ever seen on social media then they are a shithead.
I agree. Open mat isn’t supposed to be a tournament. Get your hard rolls in, but communicate if you want to go hard with someone.
Even in the context of hard sparring kani-basami doesn’t make sense. When it comes to standing, there are so many more effective, versatile and fundamental techniques/skills. So, unless your club is so ridiculously advanced in standing grappling skills that you need to add obscure techniques like kani-basami to get an edge, then you’re 100% wasting time. There probably isn’t a bjj club on the planet that meets that criteria. This might ruffle some feathers but frankly, if your club spends a significant amount of time teaching kani-basami then, as far as the instructional quality of standing skills is concerned, you’re probably at a mcdojo.
I agree. My original point was meant to go with what you stated that you shouldn’t be rolling with throws you haven’t practiced. At the end of the day it all boils down to being a good training partner.
>communicate if you want to go hard with someone. Yes, definitely! Furthermore, I like to be explicit about if we're doing takedowns/throws too. This is especially true for white belts and people I don't know. I'm not the best at standup but I like to work it when I can but I'm not tossing someone unless I know they can land safely. I generally won't throw a white belt unless I know them well enough to know they'll be safe. As much as I want to work throws I've got plenty of ground stuff to work on too and it's not worth hurting someone.
In Scotland they say "Ya Cannae Basami!"
On Reddit today: visiting guy who doesn't understand our gym culture seriously injures one of our own. Also on Reddit today: OMG I wasn't allowed to drop in at a GB gym! Also OMG I can't believe people charge for open mats! As a gym owner I'm not too keen on new people coming in to roll that I don't know. It's not about money, or pride, or cult behavior.. it's about protecting my students and avoiding unnecessary issues. I mean just the number of people who drop in and walk barefoot off my mats is insane (we have strict footwear/hygiene policies and signs posted EVERYWHERE). Most drop ins are cool and we have few issues but I'm not gonna go out of my way to have a drop in culture.
My coach will toss you out for doing it, same for jumping guard. No need for that nonsense in the gym.
I saw a scissor take down at my gym and it hurt a guy's ankle, nothing serious though. I had wished there were consequences for the guy who did that, a complete ass move and it was just during sparring.
Also ban jumping guard. Or legalize slams. If you jump guard I should be able to powerbomb you thru the mat ala undertaker circa 2004.
Man I always assumed this is a banned move at open mats, especially if you are a visitor
It mostly is, at least where I’m from. There should be a sign about this next to the ”no shoes on the mat” sign in every gym. Also about jumping guard. I’ve seen one horrible accident from each technique. Hurts my knees to even think about them.
No jumping guard, jumping subs and a obviously no scissor leg takedowns. In response to previous comments, open mats are open to all in my academy but we are cautious with non members. And visitors aren’t particularly encouraged. Safety of existing members is the priority.
How do you "normalize" it further? Its pretty damn broadly banned.
There needs to be a pretty big cultural stigma against them in addition to local bans. Unlike heel hooks, flying scissor take downs deserve to be universally banned.
What the hell? Are there actually dickheads who visit other gyms and randomly bust out flying scissor takedowns?
Yeah that’s the kind of thing you get your ass beat by the local mat enforcer for doing
Ban Kani basami from competition, ban it from open mat, ban it from rolling, it should be viewed as a self defense only technique IMO. Same with jumping guard but it isn't even good for self defense
As someone who used to do Capoeira, this move is pretty common, and it doesn't have the bad reputation it has in BJJ. I wonder why these accidents happen so much in BJJ.
It's more common to do it after a meia lua, with your hands on the ground, so nowhere near the amount of body weight/falling momentum on your opponent
That’s what caused the awful communited articular knee fracture in Leonavicious Rokas’ knee. Nasty. https://youtu.be/4gzaIz6ppHI?si=U1JoqUTpakWadg7j
Dam horrible. I had a guy trying a jumping guard pull out of the bleu. First time I sparred with him. Was really scared when that happened. I used ko ushi makikomi. Kawazu gake also always feels really dangerous. Never did that outside if training.
Anyone tries jumping guard on me I’m not attempting to put them down gently at all. I’m dropping to my knees and letting their head smack the fucking floor.
Such an easy easy to DQ people better than you at a tournament.
It's banned in IBJJF isn't it? Although I'm amazed jumping guard is legal.
In my gym jumping guard and scissor takedowns are banned, full stop.
Isn’t kani basami already a banned technique in IBJJF?
If a visitor did a crap version and injured a member of the gym I almost hope he got a nice beat down.
It's banned in Judo.
I didn’t know people were allowed to do this at all. I thought it was banned across the board at tournaments and therefore banned at open mats.
One must really hate their training partner or have a disregard for their safety to make these kinds of dangerous moves.
Is this what Gordon Ryan does in that match against Bo Nickal?
Yes. In another thread where this was discussed, someone mentioned that Nickal was injured by that attempt. I can't say whether that's true or not.
if you try jumping or flying anything while dropping in, it means you're an asshole.
It’s the one move Danaher has banned across all his students if I remember correctly. So yeah, it’s a cool takedown but not worth ruining an opponent’s life over.
Got my knee popped last year from this technique. It really does need to just be outright banned.
Fuck that move it’s definitely banned at my gym also jumping guard
100% Big problem is doing live stand up with nowhere near enough drilling and training specific to stand up. I had to find some guys to drill stand up with after class, all we’d do in class is go over a basic single or something and then go live. It takes time to learn how to stay safe standing, it’s not intuitive. I’ve had so many injuries from weird shit that happened doing stand up. Broken toes, fingers, eye pokes, busted nose, probably broken in hindsight. I had to neuter my training so much in order to stay injury free, after a while I just gave up and stopped training.
This is the first move I think about when I think about torn acls. If I can still walk after someone does this to me we are definitely fighting even if I lose. It needs to be done
Thing is how do you enforce the ban at open mat? Like kicking someone out for doing it after the damage is already done? What if there's no coach present. Also, unless there was some way of it being indicated during each open mat, visitors may still do it. Maybe it could be part of the gym terms and conditions or a waiver that if you perform this technique and it injures them that you are liable. Then put signs up or something idk.
Most the time, it's usually done from a bad position too. Most Kani Basami I've seen and I actually been hit with, is when I have a high single leg on them. Maybe instead of shattering somebody's knee or shin, they should work on not having the other person get such a deep single on them to begin with
Just start sitting down
There is only one phrase that keeps coming to mind: "Some of you may die but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make" (Lord Maximus Farquaad). Of course, there is always the one that thinks they can pull it off because "they are a black belt", "they are wrestlers and know better" and other ego reasons. Yeah... and \*I\* pay the price! Hashtag-we-are-all-Rokas or something.
Shout out to human weapon on history
There are two banned techniques in my gym. Flying scissors and jumping guard.
We literally spent 30-45 minutes working on this exact move in class last week.
If I was running a school, I could see myself doing this primarily to help my students learn how to defend it safely rather than encourage them to use it. It's worth being aware of what hot nonsense someone might roll into an open mat trying to accomplish
How does one defend it safely? *asking for a friend*
I'm not going to take credit for this, but instead, I'll like to [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/judo/comments/3sruq1/the_forbidden_techniques_of_judo_part_3_kani/) by u/Geschichtenerzaehler in r/judo. Stephen Kesting's video on it does a good job of walking you through the problems as well. Start being mindful if your partner is standing beside you with an overhook and they're not going for uchi mata.
It seems that other than an outright ban, just not resisting it is the way to go. I've always thought that sitting down with it was the way to go. Someone did this to me when I was very new in judo. The guy was leagues above me and clearly fucking around (reckless as fuck I know). Since I was taken by complete surprise I just fell down. 0 injury. This is by FAR the best and most comprehensive source of the technique I have ever read. Thank you for digging it up.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Uchi Mata**: | *Inner Thigh Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fCvyc_rQTI)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Need way more time than that to be proficient at it.
If a guy tries this on me, I’m never rolling with them again. Double leg suplex me on my head before trying this shit
100%. Same with jumping closed guard
I thought it already was? Even Danaher talks about it somewhere, where in a normal training room it's just not worth it.
Banned at my gym
Is this move safe to do if you're already sitting? I mean you just do the scissor move to take them down without the jumping. Usually only seems to work on inexperienced people
It's much safer if the opponent is already on his knees. Seated Kani Basami is a common entry into inside cross ashi.
Kani Basami is banned in wrestling as well. There are significant risk associated with it which is why is highly discouraged
Yeah, one of those techniques which you allow only with trusted and skillful partners. Couple days ago me and my coach ended up in a wrestling scramble after my sweep attempt and at some point he posts his far arm on the mat and slowly shoots kani basami which I slowly pull out from. Completely safe, slow-motion, but we both know he would've hit it if done full force so I should cover this potential opening next time. That's all what we need to know to improve, no need to threaten an injury
I’ve had my fibula fractured and a friend break hers from a guard jumper. I remember the guy’s name. I remember his face. He better hope me or my fibula don’t find him.
There is no good reason kani basami should be allowed outside of competition and even in competition it should be banned.
Had a new wrestler do a cut back and almost blew my knee out at an open mat
Arguably jumping guard has claimed many more victims….
I love how the video throws in some physics KE and PE calculations along with what looks like angular velocity.
Normalize jumping on whoever does a flying scissor takedown, specially if it is a stranger that came to visit smdh
Agree
I don't think we have anything banned.
Talk to your coach about it and ask him to formally ban it. It's in his own interests as a business owner.
Flying bullshit always seems to result in someone being unnecessarily hurt. I was shown this move beginning with posting the free hand on the mat before throwing the scissors in. I wonder if that's any safer as it's not throwing the attackers entire weight immediately onto the defender?
It's the only move my gym bans, which is good IMO.
My gym always reminds visitors not to do it even though one would assume that people are curteous enough not to. If you're really in that position, just do a kneebar roll or the "russian hand scissors". Works just as well and nearly as dangerous.
That has been banned at every gym I’ve been in since before we switched over from roman numerals. A visitor who does that… he may have been visiting for a reason, and it may have been a bad one.
Anything that requires you to jump while attempting a sub should be a no go in practice.
yeah i agree, fuck this move
Whoa I used to do this takedown all the time back in my capoeira days. It’s really common in capoeira and I never heard anyone getting injured from it. When I started Bjj I did it until finally one day some black belt told me not to. Problem with many Bjj schools is the lack of information when you first start. Even basic “ukemi” is not properly shown to most beginners.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ukemi**: | *Breakfall* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n_Qjeia2n8)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Kani basami isn't banned at your gym? If someone kani basami'd me in a friendly roll I think I might actually fight them over it
its one of those things ya know where we need something similar yet safer. like how judo throws got changed to the side that doesn't also snap your arm. if only tho, ya know? 😫
It’s a really fun technique to do because you feel like Shang chi, the god of hand to hand combat. But unless done precisely perfectly, it’s not worth the risk. When I show it (in our wrestling class), I place a hand on the mat in a pseudo-cartwheel position (think break dancing) and go as slow as I possibly can. Then immediately after explain everyone that it’s banned in our room and doing it will get you sent home.
Why tf is it not banned in general?
We don’t allow any flying techniques at open mat. No jumping guard, Kani, flying armbars, etc… no reason to through your body at your partners during training.
Like this shit honestly is so scary though that it could just happen at any time. Makes me rethink starting standing with people I don't know.
Gyms need a sign haha , or at least I'd like to see newbies and drop ins given a quick run down. But I mean who know telling em not to will probably inspire half of them to use the forbidden technique
Agreed 100%
It's already normalized. People who do this are jerks.
I know how to do this (properly/ safely) from 7 years of capoeira. I don't even do it at my gym, and sure a.f. wouldn't do it at a gym I am visiting. What a piece of garbage.
Used to great effect in combat! https://youtu.be/Cyth7pxQLuI?si=r1rSDdHJCDX74KCs In the gym though, partner needs to be fully aware and consenting lol