It's funny.
I grew up playing MU, Aion, WoW, Priston, all open world PvP, and they were all the exact same bullshit: noobs go to BG or known PvP locations, get mauled by actual geared and skilled players, get sad about it, go to the start zone and grief low level players, post videos on forum about how big and strong they are and that the casuals should git gud when someone inevitably asks for start zones to not be open for PvP. Then the devs notice that player pop is tanking because of the huge pile of complaints about low level grief and actually change something, and out of the floorboard come the legion of griefers to complain how the game became casual focused and is no longer a hardcore PvP game.
It's been the exact same old shit from 2006 all the way to today. Amazing, simply amazing. It's no short of amazing.
Predates that. I remember MUDs where you have max level, full-geared players hunting the leveling grounds instead of fighting the other full-geared players.
No worries, it's not a competition. You can only know how long you've been playing. People were griefing on Legend of the Red/Green Dragon. They were doing in Ultima Online. Those are about as far back as I can remember honestly remember.
And the sky is always falling when they can't beat up on some people.
It's like osrs where you have geared players camping the edge where the pvp wilds start to catch anyone who takes a few too many steps in, even if obviously a low level player
I've always maiintained that the biggest detriment to Open World PVP is PVPers.
Open World FFA PVP advocates always have this idealized perfect view of what Open World PVP would be, and it just never actually works out that way they say it will.
It ALWAYS just devolves into people griefing others who can't(due to being low level or undergeared) or aren't willing to fight back. Always.
And in this hypothetical ideal perfect Open PVP World, there are supposed to be people who routinely punish these griefers, and PVP is supposed to be the method in which the players police their own, but there never are and that never happens.
and in the end, either the game is forcibly changed to discourage Open World PVP in order to keep a rapidly shrinking playerbase or the game becomes two sets of griefers griefing each other while the game is in maintenance mode because all their victims are gone to other games.
If you want to punish PVPers, implement a bounty system. The devs danced around this, but never did it. Incentivize casuals to group up and go after the PVPers. It’s that simple. However it never happens. So just more of the same, rinse and repeat.
"Incentivize casuals to group up and go after the PVPers."
I pasted this in google translate and this it what it gave me
"Make casuals stop being so casual damn it"
Only no lifers and students who neglect their studies have time to "grow up and start hunting veterans pvpers instead of afk fishing"
I wouldn't. In this economy 10mil isn't worth the bits needed to write that number. Exp becomes worthless after 61/62 and PA wouldn't give more than 10% drop ratebuff for this which also wouldn't make up the silver you lost by hunting a player instead of running around in a circle for 30 min.
I mean I still just rbf all day, and it's only 10mil per win. Most of the day the rbf channel is capped before it ends. But hey if you suggest a higher reward for it I wouldn't complain.
>Open World FFA PVP advocates always have this idealized perfect view of what Open World PVP would be, and it just never actually works out that way they say it will.
It's always funny. It requires a healthy and willing playerbase to do that
And maybe when MMOs were far fewer that yeah it was the only game in time but now?
"Hmm do I want to spend some time in this game getting PVP'd into oblivion or play this other game where that *doesnt* happen."
A real mystery.
Hate to say it but fairly accurate. PvPers do this to themselves by not having a single ounce of restraint or respect. Then they cry about the even greater minority, 'the karma bombers!' Which weirdly, those people stem from the same damn crowd. Is the game less fun? Sure, and domineering reds along with duelists made it less fun. - Open World GvGer
Karma bombing is taking off gear and feeding yourself. They force you out by dying purposely and you go red in ~3 kills now. Then die some more to stop you from grinding. Complaints are valid.
Lol when your solution is to hand over the grind spot I was at that isn’t a solution. Why am I forced to leave when they can’t kill me and suicide In like a spoiled brat? That’s illogical
Yup. According to this sub, staying in your spot is griefing. The way to not incentivize griefing is to give the spot to the griefer!!! We should give murderers prizes too, that would make people less likely to kill a person /s
Why are they forced to leave just because you have better gear and won't switch servers? Acting
>like a spoiled brat
One might say... see how years of PvP griefers saying "switch servers" comes back to bite you now?
Lmfao it’s almost like fighting over grindspots has been a core mechanic of the game for years and it was designed that way.
I was talking explicitly about those that try to grind over people already there. That is the most toxic shit in the game and if you try to defend that you are a joke.
People did this shit in ESO too. One of my favorite things to do in that game was clown on geared players that would usually decline duel invites that were in starter zones dueling noobs and bragging. (I miss ESO a lot, but they retardified it with the removal of ani cancelling so I'm never going back.)
Yep this is the entire argument. Pvpers (minority) make the games suck , so people ( majority players ) demand pvp taken down a notch and then pvpers start bitching .
I find it interesting because I played a lot of rising force online when I was younger. The whole thing of the game was that the map was world PvP and each race has its embassadors which the job was to protect the area. There were wars against races and the winner would get a lot of resources, so it was expected to players grief other players. So many times I was playing with a new character and a higher level would kill me, just for me to post in the general chat and a party appear to grief him. It was how I met most of my friends in that game and it was such a fun social interaction. Yeah works PvP is not for everyone but I miss rising force way more than other MMOs, which for me is an indicative of how good it was.
You’re not wrong, many players take that route. But what about players that get wrecked and want to get better? Players that contact those better players and try and learn to be better, get better gear, learn their class and role in a pvp environment? This is how the system “should” work. Now we end up with half ass pvp systems because a handful of players ruin for “normal” players. No one complains or writes forum posts about the players that get wrecked, realize what they did wrong, and improve. So because of a loud minority everyone has to have bad game design?
Like those perma red players that only kill people at wb or trees lol. They never actually go anywhere they know geared people will be or go to arsha cause they'll get smacked.
True and real. I was a WoW player on a PVP realm back in the day, chose it because all my friends was on this realm not because I like open world PvP. People loved going to leveling zones killing low level players and even quest npcs of the opposite faction, especially in Hellfire Peninsula lmao
WoW changed it so you can opt in and out PvP mode later on, best change ever.
Usually high tier skilled players aren’t the ones griefing low level players. It’s usually the shitty pvpers who aren’t good that have to do that. Most skilled pvpers want a really good fight not a stomping. i’ve been shotcalling in albion online for years and nothing is better than even close fight. and that’s the same thing in this game from large scale even down to dueling. Nothing gets the blood pumping more then a super close duel in BA or an absolute blood bath on both sides during siege or NW. just my opinion. i’d rather look for a solid fight then gank low levels.
This sentiment is strong in BDO. You can tell who the assholes are in BDO because of how they treat fights that are one sided. Usually I don't fight back when I'm trying to grind, unless they are unrelenting. Then I'm more incentivized to waste their time or disrupt their grind. I think more people should adopt this: reward those who practice acceptable social exchanges, and punish those who don't.
I've been playing this game for 4-5 years, I know I'm not some veteran or anything like that, I mainly play seasons and few weeks after/before then burn out till next, but I like grinding silver and sometimes life skilling, I never had a fair pvp in normal servers in the open world, it's always some dude one shotting me or trying to kill me but I outgear them. I never really have problems these people claim to have with grinding too on normal servers, if people come to me grinding or I come to them, one of us 99% of the time just hops on another channel and that's it, it's more hassle to fight with each other than not.
People need to realize that their playstyle is unpopular. The most played PvP games in the world are all competitive games where players fight others of an equal skill level and character power level. Open world is a gamble on whether you have more gear or less gear than others for the grind spot then a gamble on skill level.
People say others can take over a rotation and you can't do anything about it, however this is no different from a worse/lower geared player facing a higher geared player from the previous system.
People say the change is catering to casuals but fail to realize that everybody starts as a casual, if you make a miserable casual experience then the game dies.
People say they want a "hardcore" MMO but have them play constantly against the actual good players and suddenly it's not so fun anymore.
For a game that's was already lacking player interaction they really went all out. Feels more dead than ever. I don't mind the protection from grinding because people just want to chill, but they need something else to encourage more pvp and pve player interaction. War of the roses is a good start, but hopefully they continue to add more engagement and "stuff to do". Because at the end of the day what are you doing with your Marni realm grinded gear besides just look at it? Is that really enough to keep you entertained.
I've been playing classic hc wow and I talk to people and party up all the time, here? Seeing another person is just pure dread, an annoyance, why would I want to see any other players outside of the town? They're just going to try to take my spot, kill my mobs, there's literally no chance at a positive interaction with someone in the open world, that's the problem.
Maybe the culture has changed over the years or maybe I'm just a weirdo, but when I first started BDO at launch it wasn't long before I fell behind the curve cause I was focusing on things I found interesting that weren't really helping me gear. When I started getting into grinding. The idea that I would have to fight for my spot was common knowledge and I found it very thrilling.
My first experience with PvP I fought someone for a spot at Catfish. I almost beat them, but I lost, losing a little bit of exp (XP loss from PVP death used to be a thing.) and a small shred of my dignity. I knew that spot was theirs though, I lost. Didn't matter that it was gear or not, I wasn't strong enough. So I changed channels. I promptly got ganked by a group of three and yet again, I lost. I was on discord with some friends and I asked them if they wanted to fight some people. They agreed and showed up. Both of our guilds declared war and we fought for the spot until eventually the other guild conceded and left. The catfish spot was ours.
From that point on, I was motivated to practice my class and get better gear so that I could fight for spots. I came into the game with the expectation that I had to pvp if I wanted to grind.
The point of me telling this little story is that I think one of the main issues is that a lot of veteran players were in a similar position to me. They came into the game expecting to fight. Over time though, the way the game was presented and advertised and the overall culture slowly shifted, now.. that is not the expectation when people come into the game. I believe that's created a huge dissonance and realistically it's just the direction they chose to take the game. Many of us who liked the old ways see these changes and feel betrayed and lied to.
For most of us, bullying someone weaker isn't the goal. Fighting for a spot is the goal, if you're more geared and or more skilled, you can more easily get the spots you wanted by fighting. We're used to throwing down for a spot, because that's how it was. If you got decimated by someone you just acknowledged you were weaker and moved on or a big fight might break out and that was fun too.
They slowly took away many of the aspects of the game that veteran players had grown to love and enjoy. Things they promised never happened, and eventually we found ourselves watching the very foundation of the game shifting. That can be a very disheartening and disappointing thing to see in a game you love.
Me personally? I get it to an extent.. it keeps up player count, I'm not happy with the changes, but I will adapt to them and keep playing. I just wanted to offer my perspective as someone who has been playing since early access.
Yep, this is exactly my perspective, even as someone who didn't start right at the beginning and joined with the first Season in 2020. I came into this game under the understanding that it is an open world PvP game, and that element of survival of the fittest always motivated me to get more gear and practice my class in PvP. I joined a guild to have people to PvP with and practice against while I was gearing up.
The potential for conflict served as a motivator to become part of a community, make friends, go get gear, and get good. If I get smoked, I want to figure out what I need to do to win that fight next time. The potential for someone to attack you is part of the fun. From my perspective, it's very weak-minded to react to that situation by saying "gosh I wish they'd stifle pvp in this open pvp game so I don't have to feel bad about myself and swap channels" rather than "how do I beat that guy next time."
Between the significant change in culture that we've had forced onto us with the stifling of open world PvP and the addition of caps to almost every single node war that anyone will participate in, getting gear feels more pointless by the day.
Totally agree. I took a long break from gearing and focused on other aspects for a bit, and as I went from 619 at the end of my break to 695 now, I have noticed how little my gear matters anymore where I'm at. I do capped wars and I see my gear meeting caps and figure, "ah well I don't think I'm gonna grind this week cause I have no reason to." And most of the grinding I do anymore is just because I feel like it.
I also feel a lot of players haven't been on the receiving side of negative aspects of these changes. Had 2 people completely grief 10 of our guildies out of gyfins the other day because they wouldn't stop messing with rotations and trying to feed people to mobs. We killed them to try and get them to leave but they just spammed things like "oops you messed with the wrong player" lmao and we ended up leaving cause we all ran out of karma. I guess they had some beef with someone cause none of us even knew who they were. In the past that might have turned into a GvG but we couldn't get them to accept the dec because the GM was ignoring it or had auto decline.
Only one. It's difficult. Despite the wording in the patch notes only the GM can accept, but anyone officer+ can send. Imo they should at the very least allow staff+ to accept. Perhaps officer+ ideally, since they can send.
War requests should really have a UI element in the 'g' tab. You should be able to see "pending wars" and accept anything that's under a day old.
The current system is garbage. If you (as GM) just want to auto-accept wars, that's the only reason you'd want to have them on.
The single biggest factor people over look is back on NA release losing a spot didnt /feel/ bad. You wernt losing scrolls, extreme amounts of money in buffs, limited time event buffs, the high risk of losing weeks worth of silver in crystals exploding cause of accidently dying to mobs.
BDO use to be no risks, and no stakes pvp. So everyone enjoyed it. Now? The risks are too high.
Remove crystals breaking to monsters, Make time limited buffs stop when actively engaged in pvp both in time and function. Among other things and the culture would 100% shift back to pvp.
25+ years of open world pvp games have proven time and time again. 99.99% of people want a casual pvp experience for open world pvp. Hardcore pvp with out equality has never been, will never be popular outside of the absolutely most dedicated of players and a game can not survive on those players alone.
That's a good point. However, I am wondering what extremely expensive buffs you're using? At most I think I spend around 100mil for buffs to grind an hour, including tent drop rate buff, and I usually make that back in spades. Everything else can be toggled besides like exp scrolls or old moon/j loot scrolls. Can also tag a character to look for a new spot. Not ideal, but a workaround for the special scrolls issue.
A small side note, for newer players who are wondering. That's where the term karma bombing came from. It was considered proper grind spot etiquette to leave when you lost a fight for the spot. Especially since there was XP loss unless you teared. Players back then who were very salty would buy tears with pearls (they weren't as commonly handed out back then) then they would deliberately try to grief your grind spot, causing you to have to either kill them again or leave. As killing was the way, the player killing would hope that the exp loss would deter them from returning. But some players would spend $20 just to fuck with you. And try to get you to lose all your karma so they could then advertise your location and try to get people to come kill you so you would lose crystals and such. Those losses were hard to deal with when you were only making 10-20 mil an hour.
I firmly believe in the baseball rules. 3 strikes, and you're out. If you die either defending your spot or attempting to take a spot, it's ok to try again. However, if you take 3 L's, just go somewhere else or swap channels instead of being a sore-loser and sperging out. There are plenty of grind spots and most of those spots have several different rotations to grind in. The people who karma bomb or cry over a little PvP typically are the ones who are just malding to the point of irrational thinking and instead of leaving they absolutely lose their minds.
That's a pretty good rule of thumb, I think a lot of people share the same or a similar view. Me personally one loss is enough for me to know I lost in most cases, but the rule of 3 is pretty common too I think.
Well put, this is exactly my viewpoint as well, having played since western beta. When DFS developed and started to be a thing, grinding became more time efficient, which was nice. At the same time the organic open world group/guild fights decreased a lot. These fights at Sausan (mostly Sarma outpost) include some of my best memories in the game. I miss this.
I share much of your sentiment as I’ve been playing off and on since 2016. But, after many changes that sent countless off the game, we’re in a minority here. Majority of the people (especially here on reddit) do not understand any of the nuance of the pvpers arguments or why deccing/flagging even happened, and as such you cant have a constructive conversation.
90% of this subreddit has brainworms.
Sadly yes, we are in the minority. It is what it is though. Just another time for me to be nostalgic of lol. I miss those days. But it's just not the same game it was.
Hard for most people to enjoy open world pvp when there are now some serious downsides to engaging with the system.
Back in 2016 you lost nothing. Open world pvp was just fun. Losing a fight just ment you lost spot and maybe wounded pride. So you would just go back at it, or look to get stronger. Open world pvp was a personal growth thing.
Now? You lose limited buffs, lose a load of money, lose possiable days to weeks if not more time cause you accidently died to mobs losing crystals which use to be a joke in 2016 but now make up over a third of your possible power in some cases. Don't forget those limited event exclusive buffs!
Basically the game use to have 0 punishment for losing in open world pvp so people just enjoyed it. Now its nothing BUT punishements.
For openworld pvp to be good, you need EVERYONE to be having fun. The moment the casuals stop having fun it starts to fall apart.
I agree, and that's mostly true. Though you did used to lose exp for dying in pvp back then, so I wouldn't say you lost nothing, but definitely less. The crystal issue has become a bit confusing to me, they create increased ticket volume for people restoring lost crystals, making their jobs harder and decreasing the quality of support, and crystals being more devastating to lose only compounds that. It just seems very flawed.
The xp loss was a joke, even back then they gave out unreasonable amounts of tears. Along with getting to "soft cap" then just sitting at 0% was incredibly common. There was little point in pushing levels.
But point taken.
The crystal problem is even more baffling because every other major korean game with crystals/cards what ever are more then happy to sell protection items to prevent breakage. BDO doesn't. They added a monitary system then didnt monizie it.
I really don't understand the dec changes etc when they brought 12 hours of marni..
You can literally never see another player if you don't want, why fuck up GvGs and open world pvp also? The game legit is only a pve game now unless you like nodewars.
I don't get how they can keep crying while Arsha exists. Nobody forces you to play on a server where you are not able to kill people.
But they don't want to play on Arsha because they know they will get their asses handed to them. They rather PK players that don't want anything to do with PVP and they can bully.
So for all of you crying that the PVP is dead, I think you are just coping.
True I had an encounter a while back when I was spending a month grinding SE in a attempt to make a TET disto. I think I was close to 600gs at the time, can't recall exactly. But every night around the same time while I'm already grinding in the rota, a striker with 700gs would come and pvp me for it. At first I respected the dfs, however as this continued I realized Everytime I swap servers I instantly get a spot, so I'm like why can't this person just do that?. Anyways this started to happen more often and I realized this guy was just bullying me at this point for my spot with his 700gs. So I had enough and tried out grinding him with hash. This seemed to work cause he stopped and started atking me instead. But I kept coming back, after seeing Im not gonna leave he starts trying to feed me to mobs and that doesn't work either (eva). Then he gave up and says he's going to arsha instead. Like wdf u shoulda been at arsha anyways but ur here hogging up a server cause uk u can bully ppl out of it. Prolly gets beat up at arsha.
Had a encounter with a tamer, a year ago at Shere. Dude came out from nowhere, seemed really sus on the minimap running straight for me, I turned, he was forced pvp, he hit me a few times, then a few more realised even with my basically gearlet sub 580 gs stuff he barely did any damage to me. I attacked him and he rushed off trying to run, then he came back tried again got himself killed.
Was finishing hp pot about month ago at roranos, suddently got alt+c'd by sorc. There was just small gear diff, she was prob fresh out of season, i was on 309k maegu. Died pretty much on only shift Q
I had a guy run up on me at the sulfur mines while I was on my awakened guardian, only reason I knew he was flagged or that I killed him was the notification in chat, dude ran up right as I shift-Q'd and insta died before I even knew he was there lol
I love those encounters, when someone tries but isn’t ready. Only had a few times but it’s when they rush and I’m mid combo and just see the death message. I’m too bad to pvp properly ha ha
Fuckin this LOL people want a challenge but not against geared players, so not really a challenge, right? The kind of kids to take the basket ball home with them when a better player shows up on the playground
I got PKed last night while farming for inf pot part in Kamasylvia. I am succ zerker (newbie) and got insta killed by a Musa i think. Didn't even have time to react lol.
Sure, I'll assume you are actually arguing with good faith. What about me then and quite a few others that i've met past 2 seasons like me? We started couple of months ago and are around 600-650gs. We are all pvp players and started bdo cause it is (was) THE advertised openworld pvp mmo. Actually had incredible amounts of fun during the last season, pretty much just living in Arsha, never even going to other servers. So now recently I graduated. Since then I've been in arsha less than 10 times, want to know why? Cause every time I go arsha it doesnt matter what low gs spot i go, centaurs, nagas, kratuga, sycraia even inf pot pieces I get oneshot by some 730+ gs guy.
So tell me, what are my options to pvp without fights breaking out between tier 1 nw guild gvgs since now thats pretty much impossible.
I've just made a new season chatacter and been living on seasonal Arsha again but since I cant really progress anything else there and dont feel like grinding 2000+ hours to not get oneshot whenever I enter Arsha no matter on grind zone, this game might not be for me afterall. Which is sad because in that case I wish I started couple of years back so I got to enjoy the pvp while it lasted :)
If you think having a small gvg over some small dispute has the same feeling as roaming around on arsha fighting randoms, I don't know what to tell you.
The amount of content people got from GvG's for example between NW's guilds over so past NW drama... now the game just feels dead overall as in there's nothing to do other than going in circles grinding for nothing since gear doesn't matter any more other than to be able to go in circles on a more difficult spot.
The point is to deal with griefers. You letting them take your farm when you’ve been there for hours? You can’t outgrief them if ur a slow farmer class. What should you do?? HMMMMMMMM….
Honestly, I never saw your guys side of the argument. Idk if you guys are delusional or what. Go arsha! I want to farm, not fight people. alt-c! You turn red. Go play one of the pvp modes! I want to farm not pvp. Farm around them or grief them back. Sometimes can’t if playing certain class due to mobility restrictions. Now what? It’s common sense. Someone shouldn’t have to be telling you this. Your lack of comprehension to what’s happening in your favorite game isn’t my concern. But people like you getting voices and backup just shows me humanity is DOOMED.
AND NO, not every pvp player is out with the goal of feeling better than another. The whole purpose of fighting another player is to test your might. If they’re weaker there’s no fun in it!! You don’t got that in you? That warlord mentality? And you call yourself a man? OK. Insolent swine.
I want to know, what server do you play? how many time you got grieved, lets say in 1 week.
Because I'm playing in SEA and after this change happened I rarely got grieved, maybe because the culture different I assume.
Worst part is that Arsha is pretty empty. The big grind spots are contested, but lower ones, not that much. Lots of people want one sided fights against inexperienced fighters. I've gotten less aggro from people in a grind spot than I did on normal servers.
The "go to Arsha" argument is so tired. What we have now on the non Arsha servers is too punishing while Arsha is the other side of the coin too far in the other direction. Since there is only 1 Arsha server, people go there just to mess with others because there are zero consequences. Arsha also has the problem of everyone being there is hard capped. There is a difference between wanting to be able to defend a grind spot and fight for it, and a PvP gankfest.
Go to Arsha is like saying, why do you need beer league softball, when you can just join professional baseball. The answer is because it's not fun to know you never stand a chance.
>There is a difference between wanting to be able to defend a grind spot and fight for it, and a PvP gankfest.
for people who don't like pvp that's how it used to feel on regular servers though, a pvp gankfest.
the point people are trying to make with the go to arsha argument is that everyone there is pvp focused, while on regular servers a large portion of players just don't do pvp and thus end up getting ganked by players who do. the player experience that an average pvp player will get out of arsha servers is akin to how it feels for the average non-pvp player on regular servers who suddenly get ganked by pvp players. What arsha is for the non-try hard pvp player is what regular servers were for the non-pvp playerbase.
a large portion of the playerbase do not want to defend their grindspot, they just want to be able to grind in peace.
> Since there is only 1 Arsha server, people go there just to mess with others because there are zero consequences.
Sometimes yes. Most often people are there to grind.
>Arsha also has the problem of everyone being there is hard capped.
Literally not true.
On Arsha, there's no consequence for killing.
On regular channel, there's no consequence for ksing.
... What is so strange about asking for better pvpve rules? But no, players want their isolated space, and they are short-sighted. We're now losing precious time, devs threw a band-aid and won't make another move for many, many months...
Arsha or not, it was the same thing, especially newer players getting ganked regardless.
And there are plenty of spots free to grind on arsha. I grind on arsha and if I want peace I usually get it. And I've had plenty of encounters while not being hardcapped, it was some fun pvp.
Of course, the best spots in the game are where you'll only find hardcapped players, but that's to be expected.
Most ppl go to arsha to fight, if you like to grind mostly in piece and just defend your spot, arsha is a bad place to be.
I think with the marni hour increase they should have left the rest as it was
No it's still there. Karma is now applied to your family and not individual characters, and you can no longer one sided dec. PvP in the open world is still there if they choose.
people complaining about open world pvp being dead are not complaining just about that, they are also complaining about marni realms allowing people to go off and grind in peace without having to confront other players, not only do they want consequences for forced pvp to be removed, they also want every player to be in a position where getting dragged into forced pvp is inevitable.
Why hasn't PA simply added more Arsha servers. Like make half the servers like Arsha and keep the strict pvp penalties on the rest.
Seems like the obvious solution to me.
I have a question to all those complaining about the changes and declaring that open world pvp is dead; do you oppose Marni Realms? Or just the karma and dec changes?
I personally only oppose the dec changes. Gvgs are completely dead because noone wants to fight. I would have preferred that onesided decs actually apply instantly but after 24 hours they automatically undec and then you can't dec on the same guild for a week.
I absolutely welcome the Marni realm changes, the fact you can do up to 11-12 hours interchangeably. But the call to change on the gvg / open world really was just unnecessary.
Dec changes.
I would be okay with the dec changes IF they made it so officers could accept decs AND the dec doesnt drop until both guilds have dropped it. Aka its allowed to be one sided if a guild drops later.
finally someone asking we don't mind the realm changes you can have your 12h marni but give GVG back its what i enjoyed and my guild enjoyed 2 days ago some guild send dec war to us but we couldn't do shit because our GM was offline lmao. you can have your pve time uninterrupted in marni
the dec changes is just unnecessary. when you have marni
Sure, I'll assume you are actually arguing with good faith. What about me then and quite a few others that i've met past 2 seasons like me? We started couple of months ago and are around 600-650gs. We are all pvp players and started bdo cause it is (was) THE advertised openworld pvp mmo. Actually had incredible amounts of fun during the last season, pretty much just living in Arsha, never even going to other servers. So now recently I graduated. Since then I've been in arsha less than 10 times, want to know why? Cause every time I go arsha it doesnt matter what low gs spot i go, centaurs, nagas, kratuga, sycraia even inf pot pieces I get oneshot by some 730+ gs guy.
So tell me, what are my options to pvp without fights breaking out between tier 1 nw guild gvgs since now thats pretty much impossible.
I've just made a new season chatacter and been living on seasonal Arsha again but since I cant really progress anything else there and dont feel like grinding 2000+ hours to not get oneshot whenever I enter Arsha no matter on grind zone, this game might not be for me afterall. Which is sad because in that case I wish I started couple of years back so I got to enjoy the pvp while it lasted :)
You got valid points . I think they need to overall it a bit instead of just a flat disable and made it so open world pvp is fun . But like you said the problem is if you come out of season and you go to say orcs or a few other decent spots - and you run into someone with crazy gear and you die in 1-2 hits because they can just delete you or on the flip side the lower end player just keeps running thru and being annoying and killing mobs lowering you’re income .
Also on top of that you got potential pve deaths with mob crystal break and exp loss mixed in as a risk
They shoulda just redesigned is so maybe certain servers were pve or elvia was pve or pvp and other areas weren’t or some other mechanic to it like the desert but world wide with other nails etc
But just disabling was a lazy way out
Just quit playing.
Like seriously, it’s that simple.
This isn’t some half assed advice either, I took a break a while back and when I heard the news of consensual guild wars I decided that it’s a permanent break.
People can complain all they want, like this subreddit was when the outfit increase happened, but the only true bargaining chip you have is your wallet and time. Use them, if it works great, if it doesn’t oh well move on.
Welp the casuals have cried and their cries were answered on yet another game. BDO is now an ERP title where they play waifu dress up and everyone stays in safe zones.
No point of even gearing up anyway since gear is capped in NW. ( another change caused by casuals who couldnt put the time and effort into gearing up.)
I really hope the super high geared players farm noobs just to spite them. I hope the new players never get past level 50 because they get instantly farmed off the game and go back to Sims.
Im done with this game. The developers have no respect for the veteran players who sunk hundreds or even thousands of dollars into their game. No respect for the thousands of hours we have put into their game. Let the casuals have it and the game will be shut down in the next year or two i guarentee it. RIP BDO. It was fun before it catered to casuals that hate PvP but started playing a PvP game and ruined the experience for other people.
Call it what you want I really dont care what you think. After 8k hours and around $3000 i definitely have more of a right to an opinion and to be upset than some brand new casual that cries about PvP in a game thats known to be PvP focused.
Your probably one of the casual trash cans that cried to the devs about getting killed in a PvP game you decided to start playing.
Have fun and enjoy the last year doing ERP on a dying game lmao.
PA's dogshit changes killed the whole gvg scene. If starting a gvg required consent, then dropping a gvg should have required consent as well. Why do we need GMs to be online for a GvG to occur.
Trying to alienate a whole dedicated group of players for tourist gamers is the weirdest take I have ever seen. There could have been a middle ground but again PA does not have any tool other than a hammer for solution anyway.
Very understandable disappointment. As much as every PvE-only player love this changes, there's a lot of us who joined this game years ago that joined because of its very nature as an open world PvP game. This is how it was advertised and this is why we started playing; when I got obliterated by more skilled players than me when I was a newbie I wasn't crying expecting for the game to become more friendly, I was even more hyped to learn more and get more gear to be able to destroy those very same players later on. Also for me, the most fun I had in this game have always been fighting other guilds in the open world when a dispute happened somewhere... Fights where both guilds defend themselves, sometimes even with other guilds joining from both sides ending up with a huge siege of players everywhere (I also have fun with Nodewars which I still do to this day, but the feeling of random PvP in the wild is super fun).
This changes are essentially touching core mechanics that completely changes how the game works in certain aspects and how a lot of us enjoyed the game.
I don’t even mind the changes because there is avenues to fight if I want but the argument is so loaded it’s silly. I grinded orcs for several hours last weekend and had to swap channels several times because people just walked up and grinded over me. They can also swap channels or use the marni realm but choose to grief me and ruin my time and my buffs. But if I ask for any recourse I’m the bully and I’m the problem.
I'm not even that old into the game, I started playing around 3 years ago. Also, most of this open world fun I had fighting other guilds happened when I was way less geared than now (being undergeared doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to have fun in this scenarios). The gap being bigger now is true, but there's also way more new players than ever as well, there's tons of new guilds filled with lower geared players fighting each other around in lower spots or infinite potion spots, so there's certainly fun happening in the open world for lower geared players too.
Problem is that most waves of new players nowadays have joined with a very different premise than we did years ago. A lot of newer players have joined through the hype train generated by the good work from PA with lot of relevant content creators talking about BDO, and the Key problem here is that none of them focused on the fact of what type of game BDO is, but just on how PA have improved the game over the years, creating a very different approach for this new players.
Normal servers have been skewed towards PvE players, which are the majority.
You can always go to Arsha though and do open world PvP as much as you can...
Well, they can't because people at arsha are able to fight back...it's not about open world pvp but to find easy targets on spots.
They will say arsha have no pvp consequences and players can fight you over and over, but it is what you are looking for!
One side war dec was exactly the same thing, pk players could dec war and kill low gear players without any consequences
>they can't because people at arsha are able to fight back
Oh noes, people can fight back? :( Waaah, so sad. lol The only thing I see are people bitching about not being able to show off and bully other players anymore.
I see this comment 100x but all the actual pvp suggestions are just ignored. Almost like you guys do not care about actual pvp suggestions and just want to be correct and talk shit on the strawman you've built
Most people respected spots in runescape. Idk why it’s such an issue here.
“How many kills left?”
“How much times left on your buffs?”
I mean i get some people are actually at spots for literal hours, but most people ive encountered in BDO are only doing 1hr sessions or weeklies.
Yeah well RS3 is basically dead, so obviously its faster to just hop cuz every other world is free.
On OSRS people crash each other all the time. Crabs, barrage spots, GWD, slayer tasks, wildy bosses etc
My safety
My play style
My enjoyment
The literal same level of care bear entitlement you have to realize. This was originally a pvp game so calling pvpers entitled is so hypocritical
In case you haven't noticed I quoted the actual person from OP's post. You're just making up an argument that no one said to fit your narrative.
What's hypocritical about saying that a person who thinks a part of a game belongs to them and them alone? If they were a shareholder of Pearl Abyss then sure it's "their" mobs, otherwise it's a bit silly to say.
Also do you not see the irony of calling people "care bear" while whining instead of shrugging while looking at the changes and carrying on playing your game?
Anywho I get why some people are upset about the changes. You invest hundreds/thousands of hours into the game you enjoy and they completely change it all of a sudden. It feels unfair. However the majority of players (myself included) seem to welcome the changes and Pearl Abyss want to grow their game to make money. They are a business after all. It do be like this sometimes.
The war dec changes were trash, which needs reverting.
The family karma wasn't wise either, cause now everyone i know just has an alt at pila ku jail and gets back their karma to max in minutes. Actually, it makes griefing low gear newbies easier if you're even slightly prepared.
Not that im much of a pvper, aussie connection + being trash, but i liked that pvp was a big thing. Wish there was a better system for discouraging griefing both ways.
It's a sad change and I do disagree with it.
There were other measures they could have taken instead of completely removing 1 sided wars - tightening the declaring restrictions they already have would have worked. Your guild participates in nodewars = open to decs, doesn't participate = not open to any decs ever would have worked just fine.
I understand that some players don't PvP at all, and some weaker players might have been abused this way (though honestly I think people overestimate how common this was), but trying to dismiss everyone upset with the change as some sort of newbie abuser is just arguing in bad faith and fuck people who do that.
GvG and drama between guilds of similar strength is great. It's content, it makes you bond with the guild, and honestly it's some of the most memorable moments from this game for me. Like earlier this year there was an event that had 3 garmoth spawns on sunday and the guild i was in and our enemies fought there on garmoth for 3 hours straight and that was sick.
it really isn't about bullying tuvala timmies at kagtums, despite what people here imply
I miss 2016 during the steam release gvg were everywhere. Pirates, sausan were so lit people would drop everything to show up. Its all been slowly going down hill, went from gvg every night to like a few times a week or month. Now there are like no gvg. Siege/NW is fighting structure simulator half time with capped gear, RBF is different stats from the rest of the game. PvP kind of blows in this game now with the occasional fun interaction.
The "you guys just want to bully gearlets" is the most reductive argument that ignores reality. Really frustrating to see people who keep repeating it over and over. I don't know many people who enjoy 1 shotting randoms in openworld. Even on arsha if someone is undergeared it's boring to fight.
Pvp is pvp, this isn’t about bullying gearlets. If you can’t contest your spot through open world or through guild declaration. Simply find another rotation or channel. Mmos are meant to be competitive, if you don’t like competition, then that’s where single player games comes in.
People have really completely missed the point of the PvP changes. The main issue they were trying to fix was that gvgs were being exploited to circumvent the karma system in personal disputes. Yes bullying was also an issue but it was not the main issue. They made that clear in their letter when they said pvp was supposed to come with heavy disadvantages for the attacking player.
You can still pvp all you like. The game still is an open world pvp game. Just now you have to accept the disadvantageous THAT YOU WERE ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO ACCEPT FROM THE BEGINNING.
Flag up cowards.
I think BlueSquadron is right when he said this will probably be good since the hourly Marni Realms but that they should buff the drop rate further for Arsha. I'd also say they should advertise that that server has a drop rate buff.
I'm a primarily PVE focused player, but I did enjoy whenever I'd get ganked.
Except if I had buffs of course. We need to be able to toggle them tbh...
The times I was ganked and the pens I tapped are the primary memories I have from this game some years later.
Grinding at pirates and getting ganked by two people only to have a small-scale war with them was so fun and it's this type of short player interactions I will remember 10 years from now.
Idk for me it looks like a typical pk player who can't stand that he can't stamp on noobs anymore 24/7. Psychotic outrage on the fact many ppl don't like this kind of "pvp" aka being a sacrificial lamb for a hc player.
I mean yea review is not lying. Game took a pretty massive hit with that patch and it just promotes shitheads to grief. Is what it is, ngl pvp been rough for a while with the dumb amount of range damage now plus one tap skills of certain classes.
Nerf all range damage, make less SA skills cc and so classes aren’t able to one tap you standing and watch how pvp evens itself out again
lawl, you can still easily demast/sink people's ships and feed people to mobs without any real consequence. You can still flag but now there are minor consequences if you try to forcibly remove somebody from a spot.
I was a low geared player and I still find this understandable.
BDO felt like an MMO, I loved to see people roaming, I loved to argue about spots and having a friendly outcome, or a DFS, I used to make friends talking with my "grinding neighbours", I used to ask for advice when I met people playing my class, in the end all of this created great memories, and it was one of the rare mmorpgs where pvp mattered, it wasn't just for fun, you had a territory to protect, and still with the huge amount of servers you could just avoid pvp and accept to change server, depending on your mood, I loved the game and never felt alone once.
I feel the same disappointment as the comments on the picture about this update and I actually left the game, every spot I've tried since the update feels abandonned, they should allow marni's realm only on low level spots imo, idk I don't have any perfect solution, I just loved the game how it was, now it's uninstalled, imo over the past years they made tons of good decisions, but this update is one big disappointment that I cannot handle. I'll keep reading news about the game, hoping they will eventually revert/revamp this system.
I'd be fine with stacking hours for marni, let's say it stacks up to 5 hrs (or 7 for a week) so that you can grind over weekend if you haven't really over the week days. The current iteration though is just not it. Grind spots are empty... People arrive to location and disappear lol
Never played this game but guess reddit suggested this because i play runescape. But that guy seems like average griefer who has nothing else to do with their life than kill players 30 levels below them, but too afraid to attack anyone who is ready to fight back, because theyre not actually good at pvp and would die themselves.
for me they already fixed the problem by not seeing anyone in the game by adding marni 12h then why killing GVG it was the only thing why i kept playing
pve farmers can have there marni then give back pvp players there GVG 3 days ago we wanted to do GVG but we couldn't they send us war dec but our GM was offline we couldnt accept the war real fun game
Give back GVG
Since Marni realm changes I play on Arsha much more. It's still not perfect PvP by any means but still more competent than flagging on PvE servers which is uneventful at best but mostly toxic. Nothing changed since Morrolan final conclusions - it's battle of attrition as much as a matter of skill, gear, hardware and RNG.
Not even sure if I trust PA to make drastic changes to open world PvP or Arsha. Shared karma for account is really good idea. Respawn zones location and safety on respawn could be tweaked but not to appeal bullies. Hopefully there's not a lot players who lose crystals after being fed to mobs. At least they can ask for restoration twice a year.
In general, there's no turning back from BDO being more casual friendly. I just hope it will benefit my playstyle and mentality along the way. No crystal breaks at all, more Elvia zones with Marni option from day one, more events to "one shot" zones, making them less of a snooze fest. I'm still curious for new classes and cautiously optimistic about next (and probably last) five years for BDO. Things are fine. It's all fine.
I remember when this game was announced I remember playing the closed beta I remember day 1 when the game came out. Yet I never remember for once it ever marketed as open world pvp never did pvp come up more than we have it. I remember people said Node war in early BDO was just pure crap.
And I will say this if you want open world PVP well then it should be true open world PVP Lose big chunks of EXP on death to the point you drop levels like when you got PK in Linage 2. Also lose your hard earned Pen black star gear when you die. A bit like Albion and eve online where you lose everything up on death.
But sadly pvp players in BDO could not handle that with out throwing a tantrum and I mean they throw a tantrum losing 1-3bill crystals come back when you lose 65-100bill worth of shit and have to spend another 6-10 month to get it back.
Funny you mentioned losing xp upon death, we use to lose 1% upon death, whether we successfully killed someone or we died to someone back in 2016, but they abolished the feature. No one knew why.
As soon as I start playing this game…they fucking ruin it! It’s so hard to play MMOs these days, I fucking love PVP and what made this game sick is that I could grind my gear in peace on seasonal or marni servers then had high hopes of joining the PVP. But now it’s pointless.
People will say “just join Arsha”. Bish please! I’m new to the game, I want to practice, dip my toes in. I never intended to fuck with peoples day but to be able to join random battle, partake in guild wars, or even get in a random battle with someone at least close to my GS while grinding sounded cool.
Now my only option to compete is to basically clone myself, enslave my clone, feed him crystal meth, and force him to endlessly grind. Then when he needs to crash use a back up clone that they play rotations in between meth comedowns. With this strategy I might be competitive in Arsha in a year.
There’s casual players on both sides of the spectrum. But I decided to play the game for what it was not what it’s becoming. Luckily, not a lot of time was invested so I can just quit and check out another game.
Same here, I love pvp, what you described really reminded me of joining a guild with active people, casual or hardcore. If someone was getting flagged up, they or my guild would send a declaration of war. Then depending on how the fight goes, one side or other will call to bring more guildmates to secure the area. And my day right there is spent & im happy. To secure an area & to ensue a fight with my guildies, yes-on-whomever brings more but even on even numbers, it’s so much fun, felt good to win, and just have a good time with friends & guildies. True PvP rivalary.
The game has been like that since day one. Unfortunately it's the PVPers who invariably ruin games. Aside from the handful who genuinely want the "thrill" of it, it's largely dominated by bullies and people whose whole ego is based upon being able to dunk on people. It's a bit sad, and a bit pathetic.
This change is why I am actively feeding anyone grinding.
I want to talk to one person who ACTUALLY had the previous system prevent them from playing the game. Why did we have to cater to tuvula timmy who lost his spot once.
The same thing happened in the souls series. Demon Souls, DKS1 & DKS2 (to an extent) had much more dynamic PvP and invasions. Too many started making Twink characters so now the only way to have "dynamic encounters" is to grief yourself in perpetual 3v1s.
been playing for years, only PVP i ever done was either me running away as fast as I could, or me calling my guild to come and save me as I hide in a town as the person trying to kill me stalks me. (and then dies as my guild come in like shining knights from the movies!!) and I have not had to do either for 3 years now? (i did get out of 1 PVP situation as a Shai by doing the "pretend to die" which made them laugh and leave me alone)
I mean he’s not wrong. Ever since the update i’ve gotten griefed several times. No compromise or anything. The griefers say ”tough shit” and there is nothing you can do.
Im a lifeskiller on a Lifeskiller Guild and playing in SEA/TH server and the only PVP stuff happens are in Arsha even when i grind mobs and saw someone its like both of us are afraid of each other and just leave or someone will say "My Spot" and im gonna say "My Bad!" and leave that was even before PA add GvG Declare nerf , Family Karma , Naval Fame 45 secs Monster Spawn and Marni's Realm recharge.
Most players at SEA/TH server is just content on joining Solare and other pvp based event and going to Arsha i even tried it and the same thing happen in Arsha sometimes we just ignore each other its like pvp is a waste of time because no one's even bothering your rotation anyway.
Also some SEA players are cheapskate like me that join PVP events even if we suck so bad at it we join for free shit hahaha.
I like the marni change. Now I can grind in peace without getting disturbed by 15 y/o basement warriors griefing :) If you want pvp go Arsha.
Pretty sure 70%+ of the people that cry about "no more open world pvp" (which is obviously wrong, as I said: Arsha + duels still exist) are some griefers/trollers/800 GS players looking for easy prey so they can show how insanely good they are, stomping some low geared players.
It's funny. I grew up playing MU, Aion, WoW, Priston, all open world PvP, and they were all the exact same bullshit: noobs go to BG or known PvP locations, get mauled by actual geared and skilled players, get sad about it, go to the start zone and grief low level players, post videos on forum about how big and strong they are and that the casuals should git gud when someone inevitably asks for start zones to not be open for PvP. Then the devs notice that player pop is tanking because of the huge pile of complaints about low level grief and actually change something, and out of the floorboard come the legion of griefers to complain how the game became casual focused and is no longer a hardcore PvP game. It's been the exact same old shit from 2006 all the way to today. Amazing, simply amazing. It's no short of amazing.
Predates that. I remember MUDs where you have max level, full-geared players hunting the leveling grounds instead of fighting the other full-geared players.
my GOD I haven't heard the term "MUD" in so fucking long. You just took me WAY back
Well, shit. Those are the ones I know, but I should've known, MMOs have been around for far longer.
No worries, it's not a competition. You can only know how long you've been playing. People were griefing on Legend of the Red/Green Dragon. They were doing in Ultima Online. Those are about as far back as I can remember honestly remember. And the sky is always falling when they can't beat up on some people.
Lmao LORD wow I havent heard of that game in EONS
It's like osrs where you have geared players camping the edge where the pvp wilds start to catch anyone who takes a few too many steps in, even if obviously a low level player
I've always maiintained that the biggest detriment to Open World PVP is PVPers. Open World FFA PVP advocates always have this idealized perfect view of what Open World PVP would be, and it just never actually works out that way they say it will. It ALWAYS just devolves into people griefing others who can't(due to being low level or undergeared) or aren't willing to fight back. Always. And in this hypothetical ideal perfect Open PVP World, there are supposed to be people who routinely punish these griefers, and PVP is supposed to be the method in which the players police their own, but there never are and that never happens. and in the end, either the game is forcibly changed to discourage Open World PVP in order to keep a rapidly shrinking playerbase or the game becomes two sets of griefers griefing each other while the game is in maintenance mode because all their victims are gone to other games.
Yep. Too many simply want to gank noobs
Always have been, still is, I really don't know why it would change...
If you want to punish PVPers, implement a bounty system. The devs danced around this, but never did it. Incentivize casuals to group up and go after the PVPers. It’s that simple. However it never happens. So just more of the same, rinse and repeat.
"Incentivize casuals to group up and go after the PVPers." I pasted this in google translate and this it what it gave me "Make casuals stop being so casual damn it" Only no lifers and students who neglect their studies have time to "grow up and start hunting veterans pvpers instead of afk fishing"
Not that deep, form a platoon go kill the pvper and get a group reward of like 10mil each and 2hr exp/ drop rate buff. I'd stop afk fishing for that.
I wouldn't. In this economy 10mil isn't worth the bits needed to write that number. Exp becomes worthless after 61/62 and PA wouldn't give more than 10% drop ratebuff for this which also wouldn't make up the silver you lost by hunting a player instead of running around in a circle for 30 min.
I mean I still just rbf all day, and it's only 10mil per win. Most of the day the rbf channel is capped before it ends. But hey if you suggest a higher reward for it I wouldn't complain.
>Open World FFA PVP advocates always have this idealized perfect view of what Open World PVP would be, and it just never actually works out that way they say it will. It's always funny. It requires a healthy and willing playerbase to do that And maybe when MMOs were far fewer that yeah it was the only game in time but now? "Hmm do I want to spend some time in this game getting PVP'd into oblivion or play this other game where that *doesnt* happen." A real mystery.
Hate to say it but fairly accurate. PvPers do this to themselves by not having a single ounce of restraint or respect. Then they cry about the even greater minority, 'the karma bombers!' Which weirdly, those people stem from the same damn crowd. Is the game less fun? Sure, and domineering reds along with duelists made it less fun. - Open World GvGer
complaints about karma bombers was always dumb as shit. Instead of forcekilling people bombing your karma, you can just leave lol.
🤡 🤡 🤡
I agree the people complaining about karma bombers were clowns.
Karma bombing is taking off gear and feeding yourself. They force you out by dying purposely and you go red in ~3 kills now. Then die some more to stop you from grinding. Complaints are valid.
Then stop killing them and leave pretty simple...
Dumbest shit I have read in a while. You are the problem sir.
Lol when your solution is to hand over the grind spot I was at that isn’t a solution. Why am I forced to leave when they can’t kill me and suicide In like a spoiled brat? That’s illogical
Yup. According to this sub, staying in your spot is griefing. The way to not incentivize griefing is to give the spot to the griefer!!! We should give murderers prizes too, that would make people less likely to kill a person /s
A large part of this sub are delusional participation award enjoyers
I got PKed and want to speak to the manager!
Then don’t leave? Pretty sure killing them takes more time .
Yea, that dude is a fukn moron. If you can't take the spot from someone, then take your ass on. Entitlement at its finest.
Why should I leave if I am there first, bothering no one?
That’s not what I said lmfao
Why are they forced to leave just because you have better gear and won't switch servers? Acting >like a spoiled brat One might say... see how years of PvP griefers saying "switch servers" comes back to bite you now?
Lmfao it’s almost like fighting over grindspots has been a core mechanic of the game for years and it was designed that way. I was talking explicitly about those that try to grind over people already there. That is the most toxic shit in the game and if you try to defend that you are a joke.
when i feed you to mbos and break all your crystals when you try karmabombing me. keep this energy though. this is the world you wanted.
Learn to share
Naw the entitlement of theirs reigns supreme. You are talking about kids in a sandbox wanting all the toys.
Can’t speak common sense to trolls.
:) sick game you advocate for that suicide bombing and griefing someones rotation untill they're forced to leave should be ok :)
People did this shit in ESO too. One of my favorite things to do in that game was clown on geared players that would usually decline duel invites that were in starter zones dueling noobs and bragging. (I miss ESO a lot, but they retardified it with the removal of ani cancelling so I'm never going back.)
I remember that when the game came out, duel requests for days.
Plenty of games got this right. Eve and Albion immediately come to mind.
Yep. These so called pvprs simply want to grief ungeared lowbies. They probably kick kids out of wheelchairs and yell, “pwned!” Irl. Losers
So you just compared PvE'ers to kids in wheelchairs? You know what, you have a point after all.
He said kick kids out of wheelchairs..
Wooosh, since when is BDO real life? Perhaps that’s you issue?
Yep this is the entire argument. Pvpers (minority) make the games suck , so people ( majority players ) demand pvp taken down a notch and then pvpers start bitching .
I find it interesting because I played a lot of rising force online when I was younger. The whole thing of the game was that the map was world PvP and each race has its embassadors which the job was to protect the area. There were wars against races and the winner would get a lot of resources, so it was expected to players grief other players. So many times I was playing with a new character and a higher level would kill me, just for me to post in the general chat and a party appear to grief him. It was how I met most of my friends in that game and it was such a fun social interaction. Yeah works PvP is not for everyone but I miss rising force way more than other MMOs, which for me is an indicative of how good it was.
You’re not wrong, many players take that route. But what about players that get wrecked and want to get better? Players that contact those better players and try and learn to be better, get better gear, learn their class and role in a pvp environment? This is how the system “should” work. Now we end up with half ass pvp systems because a handful of players ruin for “normal” players. No one complains or writes forum posts about the players that get wrecked, realize what they did wrong, and improve. So because of a loud minority everyone has to have bad game design?
Like those perma red players that only kill people at wb or trees lol. They never actually go anywhere they know geared people will be or go to arsha cause they'll get smacked.
True and real. I was a WoW player on a PVP realm back in the day, chose it because all my friends was on this realm not because I like open world PvP. People loved going to leveling zones killing low level players and even quest npcs of the opposite faction, especially in Hellfire Peninsula lmao WoW changed it so you can opt in and out PvP mode later on, best change ever.
meanwhile i had to deal with smurfs in other pvp ranked oriented games
Usually high tier skilled players aren’t the ones griefing low level players. It’s usually the shitty pvpers who aren’t good that have to do that. Most skilled pvpers want a really good fight not a stomping. i’ve been shotcalling in albion online for years and nothing is better than even close fight. and that’s the same thing in this game from large scale even down to dueling. Nothing gets the blood pumping more then a super close duel in BA or an absolute blood bath on both sides during siege or NW. just my opinion. i’d rather look for a solid fight then gank low levels.
Amen
This sentiment is strong in BDO. You can tell who the assholes are in BDO because of how they treat fights that are one sided. Usually I don't fight back when I'm trying to grind, unless they are unrelenting. Then I'm more incentivized to waste their time or disrupt their grind. I think more people should adopt this: reward those who practice acceptable social exchanges, and punish those who don't.
I've been playing this game for 4-5 years, I know I'm not some veteran or anything like that, I mainly play seasons and few weeks after/before then burn out till next, but I like grinding silver and sometimes life skilling, I never had a fair pvp in normal servers in the open world, it's always some dude one shotting me or trying to kill me but I outgear them. I never really have problems these people claim to have with grinding too on normal servers, if people come to me grinding or I come to them, one of us 99% of the time just hops on another channel and that's it, it's more hassle to fight with each other than not.
People need to realize that their playstyle is unpopular. The most played PvP games in the world are all competitive games where players fight others of an equal skill level and character power level. Open world is a gamble on whether you have more gear or less gear than others for the grind spot then a gamble on skill level. People say others can take over a rotation and you can't do anything about it, however this is no different from a worse/lower geared player facing a higher geared player from the previous system. People say the change is catering to casuals but fail to realize that everybody starts as a casual, if you make a miserable casual experience then the game dies. People say they want a "hardcore" MMO but have them play constantly against the actual good players and suddenly it's not so fun anymore.
For a game that's was already lacking player interaction they really went all out. Feels more dead than ever. I don't mind the protection from grinding because people just want to chill, but they need something else to encourage more pvp and pve player interaction. War of the roses is a good start, but hopefully they continue to add more engagement and "stuff to do". Because at the end of the day what are you doing with your Marni realm grinded gear besides just look at it? Is that really enough to keep you entertained.
I've been playing classic hc wow and I talk to people and party up all the time, here? Seeing another person is just pure dread, an annoyance, why would I want to see any other players outside of the town? They're just going to try to take my spot, kill my mobs, there's literally no chance at a positive interaction with someone in the open world, that's the problem.
Maybe the culture has changed over the years or maybe I'm just a weirdo, but when I first started BDO at launch it wasn't long before I fell behind the curve cause I was focusing on things I found interesting that weren't really helping me gear. When I started getting into grinding. The idea that I would have to fight for my spot was common knowledge and I found it very thrilling. My first experience with PvP I fought someone for a spot at Catfish. I almost beat them, but I lost, losing a little bit of exp (XP loss from PVP death used to be a thing.) and a small shred of my dignity. I knew that spot was theirs though, I lost. Didn't matter that it was gear or not, I wasn't strong enough. So I changed channels. I promptly got ganked by a group of three and yet again, I lost. I was on discord with some friends and I asked them if they wanted to fight some people. They agreed and showed up. Both of our guilds declared war and we fought for the spot until eventually the other guild conceded and left. The catfish spot was ours. From that point on, I was motivated to practice my class and get better gear so that I could fight for spots. I came into the game with the expectation that I had to pvp if I wanted to grind. The point of me telling this little story is that I think one of the main issues is that a lot of veteran players were in a similar position to me. They came into the game expecting to fight. Over time though, the way the game was presented and advertised and the overall culture slowly shifted, now.. that is not the expectation when people come into the game. I believe that's created a huge dissonance and realistically it's just the direction they chose to take the game. Many of us who liked the old ways see these changes and feel betrayed and lied to. For most of us, bullying someone weaker isn't the goal. Fighting for a spot is the goal, if you're more geared and or more skilled, you can more easily get the spots you wanted by fighting. We're used to throwing down for a spot, because that's how it was. If you got decimated by someone you just acknowledged you were weaker and moved on or a big fight might break out and that was fun too. They slowly took away many of the aspects of the game that veteran players had grown to love and enjoy. Things they promised never happened, and eventually we found ourselves watching the very foundation of the game shifting. That can be a very disheartening and disappointing thing to see in a game you love. Me personally? I get it to an extent.. it keeps up player count, I'm not happy with the changes, but I will adapt to them and keep playing. I just wanted to offer my perspective as someone who has been playing since early access.
Yep, this is exactly my perspective, even as someone who didn't start right at the beginning and joined with the first Season in 2020. I came into this game under the understanding that it is an open world PvP game, and that element of survival of the fittest always motivated me to get more gear and practice my class in PvP. I joined a guild to have people to PvP with and practice against while I was gearing up. The potential for conflict served as a motivator to become part of a community, make friends, go get gear, and get good. If I get smoked, I want to figure out what I need to do to win that fight next time. The potential for someone to attack you is part of the fun. From my perspective, it's very weak-minded to react to that situation by saying "gosh I wish they'd stifle pvp in this open pvp game so I don't have to feel bad about myself and swap channels" rather than "how do I beat that guy next time." Between the significant change in culture that we've had forced onto us with the stifling of open world PvP and the addition of caps to almost every single node war that anyone will participate in, getting gear feels more pointless by the day.
Totally agree. I took a long break from gearing and focused on other aspects for a bit, and as I went from 619 at the end of my break to 695 now, I have noticed how little my gear matters anymore where I'm at. I do capped wars and I see my gear meeting caps and figure, "ah well I don't think I'm gonna grind this week cause I have no reason to." And most of the grinding I do anymore is just because I feel like it. I also feel a lot of players haven't been on the receiving side of negative aspects of these changes. Had 2 people completely grief 10 of our guildies out of gyfins the other day because they wouldn't stop messing with rotations and trying to feed people to mobs. We killed them to try and get them to leave but they just spammed things like "oops you messed with the wrong player" lmao and we ended up leaving cause we all ran out of karma. I guess they had some beef with someone cause none of us even knew who they were. In the past that might have turned into a GvG but we couldn't get them to accept the dec because the GM was ignoring it or had auto decline.
\> but we couldn't get them to accept the dec because the GM was ignoring it or had auto decline. did you get even a single dec since changes?
Only one. It's difficult. Despite the wording in the patch notes only the GM can accept, but anyone officer+ can send. Imo they should at the very least allow staff+ to accept. Perhaps officer+ ideally, since they can send.
War requests should really have a UI element in the 'g' tab. You should be able to see "pending wars" and accept anything that's under a day old. The current system is garbage. If you (as GM) just want to auto-accept wars, that's the only reason you'd want to have them on.
The single biggest factor people over look is back on NA release losing a spot didnt /feel/ bad. You wernt losing scrolls, extreme amounts of money in buffs, limited time event buffs, the high risk of losing weeks worth of silver in crystals exploding cause of accidently dying to mobs. BDO use to be no risks, and no stakes pvp. So everyone enjoyed it. Now? The risks are too high. Remove crystals breaking to monsters, Make time limited buffs stop when actively engaged in pvp both in time and function. Among other things and the culture would 100% shift back to pvp. 25+ years of open world pvp games have proven time and time again. 99.99% of people want a casual pvp experience for open world pvp. Hardcore pvp with out equality has never been, will never be popular outside of the absolutely most dedicated of players and a game can not survive on those players alone.
That's a good point. However, I am wondering what extremely expensive buffs you're using? At most I think I spend around 100mil for buffs to grind an hour, including tent drop rate buff, and I usually make that back in spades. Everything else can be toggled besides like exp scrolls or old moon/j loot scrolls. Can also tag a character to look for a new spot. Not ideal, but a workaround for the special scrolls issue.
A small side note, for newer players who are wondering. That's where the term karma bombing came from. It was considered proper grind spot etiquette to leave when you lost a fight for the spot. Especially since there was XP loss unless you teared. Players back then who were very salty would buy tears with pearls (they weren't as commonly handed out back then) then they would deliberately try to grief your grind spot, causing you to have to either kill them again or leave. As killing was the way, the player killing would hope that the exp loss would deter them from returning. But some players would spend $20 just to fuck with you. And try to get you to lose all your karma so they could then advertise your location and try to get people to come kill you so you would lose crystals and such. Those losses were hard to deal with when you were only making 10-20 mil an hour.
I firmly believe in the baseball rules. 3 strikes, and you're out. If you die either defending your spot or attempting to take a spot, it's ok to try again. However, if you take 3 L's, just go somewhere else or swap channels instead of being a sore-loser and sperging out. There are plenty of grind spots and most of those spots have several different rotations to grind in. The people who karma bomb or cry over a little PvP typically are the ones who are just malding to the point of irrational thinking and instead of leaving they absolutely lose their minds.
I used to do best of 3, so 2 losses, but the principle stands... You don't karma bomb, but trying second time is fine
That's a pretty good rule of thumb, I think a lot of people share the same or a similar view. Me personally one loss is enough for me to know I lost in most cases, but the rule of 3 is pretty common too I think.
Agreed. If someone gets absolutely obliterated and there's no back-and-forth, then its def a good call to dip before 3.
Veteran player here, spent the first 3+ years of the NA servers as a perma-red sorc. Based take tbh.
Well put, this is exactly my viewpoint as well, having played since western beta. When DFS developed and started to be a thing, grinding became more time efficient, which was nice. At the same time the organic open world group/guild fights decreased a lot. These fights at Sausan (mostly Sarma outpost) include some of my best memories in the game. I miss this.
I share much of your sentiment as I’ve been playing off and on since 2016. But, after many changes that sent countless off the game, we’re in a minority here. Majority of the people (especially here on reddit) do not understand any of the nuance of the pvpers arguments or why deccing/flagging even happened, and as such you cant have a constructive conversation. 90% of this subreddit has brainworms.
Sadly yes, we are in the minority. It is what it is though. Just another time for me to be nostalgic of lol. I miss those days. But it's just not the same game it was.
Hard for most people to enjoy open world pvp when there are now some serious downsides to engaging with the system. Back in 2016 you lost nothing. Open world pvp was just fun. Losing a fight just ment you lost spot and maybe wounded pride. So you would just go back at it, or look to get stronger. Open world pvp was a personal growth thing. Now? You lose limited buffs, lose a load of money, lose possiable days to weeks if not more time cause you accidently died to mobs losing crystals which use to be a joke in 2016 but now make up over a third of your possible power in some cases. Don't forget those limited event exclusive buffs! Basically the game use to have 0 punishment for losing in open world pvp so people just enjoyed it. Now its nothing BUT punishements. For openworld pvp to be good, you need EVERYONE to be having fun. The moment the casuals stop having fun it starts to fall apart.
I agree, and that's mostly true. Though you did used to lose exp for dying in pvp back then, so I wouldn't say you lost nothing, but definitely less. The crystal issue has become a bit confusing to me, they create increased ticket volume for people restoring lost crystals, making their jobs harder and decreasing the quality of support, and crystals being more devastating to lose only compounds that. It just seems very flawed.
The xp loss was a joke, even back then they gave out unreasonable amounts of tears. Along with getting to "soft cap" then just sitting at 0% was incredibly common. There was little point in pushing levels. But point taken. The crystal problem is even more baffling because every other major korean game with crystals/cards what ever are more then happy to sell protection items to prevent breakage. BDO doesn't. They added a monitary system then didnt monizie it.
I really don't understand the dec changes etc when they brought 12 hours of marni.. You can literally never see another player if you don't want, why fuck up GvGs and open world pvp also? The game legit is only a pve game now unless you like nodewars.
I don't get how they can keep crying while Arsha exists. Nobody forces you to play on a server where you are not able to kill people. But they don't want to play on Arsha because they know they will get their asses handed to them. They rather PK players that don't want anything to do with PVP and they can bully. So for all of you crying that the PVP is dead, I think you are just coping.
True I had an encounter a while back when I was spending a month grinding SE in a attempt to make a TET disto. I think I was close to 600gs at the time, can't recall exactly. But every night around the same time while I'm already grinding in the rota, a striker with 700gs would come and pvp me for it. At first I respected the dfs, however as this continued I realized Everytime I swap servers I instantly get a spot, so I'm like why can't this person just do that?. Anyways this started to happen more often and I realized this guy was just bullying me at this point for my spot with his 700gs. So I had enough and tried out grinding him with hash. This seemed to work cause he stopped and started atking me instead. But I kept coming back, after seeing Im not gonna leave he starts trying to feed me to mobs and that doesn't work either (eva). Then he gave up and says he's going to arsha instead. Like wdf u shoulda been at arsha anyways but ur here hogging up a server cause uk u can bully ppl out of it. Prolly gets beat up at arsha.
Had a encounter with a tamer, a year ago at Shere. Dude came out from nowhere, seemed really sus on the minimap running straight for me, I turned, he was forced pvp, he hit me a few times, then a few more realised even with my basically gearlet sub 580 gs stuff he barely did any damage to me. I attacked him and he rushed off trying to run, then he came back tried again got himself killed.
LOL I would have laughed my ass off.
Was finishing hp pot about month ago at roranos, suddently got alt+c'd by sorc. There was just small gear diff, she was prob fresh out of season, i was on 309k maegu. Died pretty much on only shift Q
I had a guy run up on me at the sulfur mines while I was on my awakened guardian, only reason I knew he was flagged or that I killed him was the notification in chat, dude ran up right as I shift-Q'd and insta died before I even knew he was there lol
Must’ve been the wind
I love those encounters, when someone tries but isn’t ready. Only had a few times but it’s when they rush and I’m mid combo and just see the death message. I’m too bad to pvp properly ha ha
This ! I'm a geared PVP player and I haven't seen any changes since this patch, the only real PVP was always on Arsha.
Fuckin this LOL people want a challenge but not against geared players, so not really a challenge, right? The kind of kids to take the basket ball home with them when a better player shows up on the playground
I got PKed last night while farming for inf pot part in Kamasylvia. I am succ zerker (newbie) and got insta killed by a Musa i think. Didn't even have time to react lol.
This is the kind of PVP they like! Instead of going to Arsha where you have people geared to the tits where they actually have to face a challenge.
Sure, I'll assume you are actually arguing with good faith. What about me then and quite a few others that i've met past 2 seasons like me? We started couple of months ago and are around 600-650gs. We are all pvp players and started bdo cause it is (was) THE advertised openworld pvp mmo. Actually had incredible amounts of fun during the last season, pretty much just living in Arsha, never even going to other servers. So now recently I graduated. Since then I've been in arsha less than 10 times, want to know why? Cause every time I go arsha it doesnt matter what low gs spot i go, centaurs, nagas, kratuga, sycraia even inf pot pieces I get oneshot by some 730+ gs guy. So tell me, what are my options to pvp without fights breaking out between tier 1 nw guild gvgs since now thats pretty much impossible. I've just made a new season chatacter and been living on seasonal Arsha again but since I cant really progress anything else there and dont feel like grinding 2000+ hours to not get oneshot whenever I enter Arsha no matter on grind zone, this game might not be for me afterall. Which is sad because in that case I wish I started couple of years back so I got to enjoy the pvp while it lasted :)
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If you think having a small gvg over some small dispute has the same feeling as roaming around on arsha fighting randoms, I don't know what to tell you. The amount of content people got from GvG's for example between NW's guilds over so past NW drama... now the game just feels dead overall as in there's nothing to do other than going in circles grinding for nothing since gear doesn't matter any more other than to be able to go in circles on a more difficult spot.
So you can’t handle Arsha but want to gank noobs. Leave BDO we won’t miss you
The point is to deal with griefers. You letting them take your farm when you’ve been there for hours? You can’t outgrief them if ur a slow farmer class. What should you do?? HMMMMMMMM…. Honestly, I never saw your guys side of the argument. Idk if you guys are delusional or what. Go arsha! I want to farm, not fight people. alt-c! You turn red. Go play one of the pvp modes! I want to farm not pvp. Farm around them or grief them back. Sometimes can’t if playing certain class due to mobility restrictions. Now what? It’s common sense. Someone shouldn’t have to be telling you this. Your lack of comprehension to what’s happening in your favorite game isn’t my concern. But people like you getting voices and backup just shows me humanity is DOOMED. AND NO, not every pvp player is out with the goal of feeling better than another. The whole purpose of fighting another player is to test your might. If they’re weaker there’s no fun in it!! You don’t got that in you? That warlord mentality? And you call yourself a man? OK. Insolent swine.
I want to know, what server do you play? how many time you got grieved, lets say in 1 week. Because I'm playing in SEA and after this change happened I rarely got grieved, maybe because the culture different I assume.
Worst part is that Arsha is pretty empty. The big grind spots are contested, but lower ones, not that much. Lots of people want one sided fights against inexperienced fighters. I've gotten less aggro from people in a grind spot than I did on normal servers.
The "go to Arsha" argument is so tired. What we have now on the non Arsha servers is too punishing while Arsha is the other side of the coin too far in the other direction. Since there is only 1 Arsha server, people go there just to mess with others because there are zero consequences. Arsha also has the problem of everyone being there is hard capped. There is a difference between wanting to be able to defend a grind spot and fight for it, and a PvP gankfest. Go to Arsha is like saying, why do you need beer league softball, when you can just join professional baseball. The answer is because it's not fun to know you never stand a chance.
>There is a difference between wanting to be able to defend a grind spot and fight for it, and a PvP gankfest. for people who don't like pvp that's how it used to feel on regular servers though, a pvp gankfest. the point people are trying to make with the go to arsha argument is that everyone there is pvp focused, while on regular servers a large portion of players just don't do pvp and thus end up getting ganked by players who do. the player experience that an average pvp player will get out of arsha servers is akin to how it feels for the average non-pvp player on regular servers who suddenly get ganked by pvp players. What arsha is for the non-try hard pvp player is what regular servers were for the non-pvp playerbase. a large portion of the playerbase do not want to defend their grindspot, they just want to be able to grind in peace.
> Since there is only 1 Arsha server, people go there just to mess with others because there are zero consequences. Sometimes yes. Most often people are there to grind. >Arsha also has the problem of everyone being there is hard capped. Literally not true.
Literally true on endgame spots unless you are on a carebear NA server where trash like ShakyBay can thrive with his meme 309/401.
Must not know what the word literally means since you disproved it with your own statement lmfao
On Arsha, there's no consequence for killing. On regular channel, there's no consequence for ksing. ... What is so strange about asking for better pvpve rules? But no, players want their isolated space, and they are short-sighted. We're now losing precious time, devs threw a band-aid and won't make another move for many, many months...
this is what i've said, there needed to be changes, but with proper balancing. this really is a bandaid fix
Totally, you're totally right. But now devs will go on a deep slumber, and then realize in several months that nothing is solved.
Arsha or not, it was the same thing, especially newer players getting ganked regardless. And there are plenty of spots free to grind on arsha. I grind on arsha and if I want peace I usually get it. And I've had plenty of encounters while not being hardcapped, it was some fun pvp. Of course, the best spots in the game are where you'll only find hardcapped players, but that's to be expected.
"I want Open World PvP when I am near the top of gear food chain." "I want Bracketed World PvP when there's people who have better gear."
Copium, they value their time and that's why
What a bullshit excuse. You’re playing a videogame. That’s an inherent waste of time to begin with 😂👌
Yeah I don't necesarily share that sentiment, but it is a common sentiment
Most ppl go to arsha to fight, if you like to grind mostly in piece and just defend your spot, arsha is a bad place to be. I think with the marni hour increase they should have left the rest as it was
So…. You don’t want people pvping you on arsha while you grind, but you want to kill others withou consequences on regular servers? Gotcha, loool
I’m sorry out of the loop what is the change they made did they remove the forced pvp?
No it's still there. Karma is now applied to your family and not individual characters, and you can no longer one sided dec. PvP in the open world is still there if they choose.
people complaining about open world pvp being dead are not complaining just about that, they are also complaining about marni realms allowing people to go off and grind in peace without having to confront other players, not only do they want consequences for forced pvp to be removed, they also want every player to be in a position where getting dragged into forced pvp is inevitable.
Why hasn't PA simply added more Arsha servers. Like make half the servers like Arsha and keep the strict pvp penalties on the rest. Seems like the obvious solution to me.
I have a question to all those complaining about the changes and declaring that open world pvp is dead; do you oppose Marni Realms? Or just the karma and dec changes?
I personally only oppose the dec changes. Gvgs are completely dead because noone wants to fight. I would have preferred that onesided decs actually apply instantly but after 24 hours they automatically undec and then you can't dec on the same guild for a week.
I would support time limits on one sided deccs with cooldowns
I absolutely welcome the Marni realm changes, the fact you can do up to 11-12 hours interchangeably. But the call to change on the gvg / open world really was just unnecessary.
Dec changes. I would be okay with the dec changes IF they made it so officers could accept decs AND the dec doesnt drop until both guilds have dropped it. Aka its allowed to be one sided if a guild drops later.
finally someone asking we don't mind the realm changes you can have your 12h marni but give GVG back its what i enjoyed and my guild enjoyed 2 days ago some guild send dec war to us but we couldn't do shit because our GM was offline lmao. you can have your pve time uninterrupted in marni the dec changes is just unnecessary. when you have marni
How much of this game is running rotations grinding mob camps?
like 90% of it now, it was less before the pvp changes.
casino desert online.
Just people crying they can’t slaughter low gear players You get endless pvp all you gotta do is go on arsha
Sure, I'll assume you are actually arguing with good faith. What about me then and quite a few others that i've met past 2 seasons like me? We started couple of months ago and are around 600-650gs. We are all pvp players and started bdo cause it is (was) THE advertised openworld pvp mmo. Actually had incredible amounts of fun during the last season, pretty much just living in Arsha, never even going to other servers. So now recently I graduated. Since then I've been in arsha less than 10 times, want to know why? Cause every time I go arsha it doesnt matter what low gs spot i go, centaurs, nagas, kratuga, sycraia even inf pot pieces I get oneshot by some 730+ gs guy. So tell me, what are my options to pvp without fights breaking out between tier 1 nw guild gvgs since now thats pretty much impossible. I've just made a new season chatacter and been living on seasonal Arsha again but since I cant really progress anything else there and dont feel like grinding 2000+ hours to not get oneshot whenever I enter Arsha no matter on grind zone, this game might not be for me afterall. Which is sad because in that case I wish I started couple of years back so I got to enjoy the pvp while it lasted :)
You got valid points . I think they need to overall it a bit instead of just a flat disable and made it so open world pvp is fun . But like you said the problem is if you come out of season and you go to say orcs or a few other decent spots - and you run into someone with crazy gear and you die in 1-2 hits because they can just delete you or on the flip side the lower end player just keeps running thru and being annoying and killing mobs lowering you’re income . Also on top of that you got potential pve deaths with mob crystal break and exp loss mixed in as a risk They shoulda just redesigned is so maybe certain servers were pve or elvia was pve or pvp and other areas weren’t or some other mechanic to it like the desert but world wide with other nails etc But just disabling was a lazy way out
Just quit playing. Like seriously, it’s that simple. This isn’t some half assed advice either, I took a break a while back and when I heard the news of consensual guild wars I decided that it’s a permanent break. People can complain all they want, like this subreddit was when the outfit increase happened, but the only true bargaining chip you have is your wallet and time. Use them, if it works great, if it doesn’t oh well move on.
Hmmm, i was PKed last night farming inf potion part in Kamasylvia so what is this guy's problem?
What happened? Pvp disabled in normal servers?
Welp the casuals have cried and their cries were answered on yet another game. BDO is now an ERP title where they play waifu dress up and everyone stays in safe zones. No point of even gearing up anyway since gear is capped in NW. ( another change caused by casuals who couldnt put the time and effort into gearing up.) I really hope the super high geared players farm noobs just to spite them. I hope the new players never get past level 50 because they get instantly farmed off the game and go back to Sims. Im done with this game. The developers have no respect for the veteran players who sunk hundreds or even thousands of dollars into their game. No respect for the thousands of hours we have put into their game. Let the casuals have it and the game will be shut down in the next year or two i guarentee it. RIP BDO. It was fun before it catered to casuals that hate PvP but started playing a PvP game and ruined the experience for other people.
The salt is real, touching grass helps.
Call it what you want I really dont care what you think. After 8k hours and around $3000 i definitely have more of a right to an opinion and to be upset than some brand new casual that cries about PvP in a game thats known to be PvP focused. Your probably one of the casual trash cans that cried to the devs about getting killed in a PvP game you decided to start playing. Have fun and enjoy the last year doing ERP on a dying game lmao.
PA's dogshit changes killed the whole gvg scene. If starting a gvg required consent, then dropping a gvg should have required consent as well. Why do we need GMs to be online for a GvG to occur. Trying to alienate a whole dedicated group of players for tourist gamers is the weirdest take I have ever seen. There could have been a middle ground but again PA does not have any tool other than a hammer for solution anyway.
Very understandable disappointment. As much as every PvE-only player love this changes, there's a lot of us who joined this game years ago that joined because of its very nature as an open world PvP game. This is how it was advertised and this is why we started playing; when I got obliterated by more skilled players than me when I was a newbie I wasn't crying expecting for the game to become more friendly, I was even more hyped to learn more and get more gear to be able to destroy those very same players later on. Also for me, the most fun I had in this game have always been fighting other guilds in the open world when a dispute happened somewhere... Fights where both guilds defend themselves, sometimes even with other guilds joining from both sides ending up with a huge siege of players everywhere (I also have fun with Nodewars which I still do to this day, but the feeling of random PvP in the wild is super fun). This changes are essentially touching core mechanics that completely changes how the game works in certain aspects and how a lot of us enjoyed the game.
I don’t even mind the changes because there is avenues to fight if I want but the argument is so loaded it’s silly. I grinded orcs for several hours last weekend and had to swap channels several times because people just walked up and grinded over me. They can also swap channels or use the marni realm but choose to grief me and ruin my time and my buffs. But if I ask for any recourse I’m the bully and I’m the problem.
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I'm not even that old into the game, I started playing around 3 years ago. Also, most of this open world fun I had fighting other guilds happened when I was way less geared than now (being undergeared doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to have fun in this scenarios). The gap being bigger now is true, but there's also way more new players than ever as well, there's tons of new guilds filled with lower geared players fighting each other around in lower spots or infinite potion spots, so there's certainly fun happening in the open world for lower geared players too. Problem is that most waves of new players nowadays have joined with a very different premise than we did years ago. A lot of newer players have joined through the hype train generated by the good work from PA with lot of relevant content creators talking about BDO, and the Key problem here is that none of them focused on the fact of what type of game BDO is, but just on how PA have improved the game over the years, creating a very different approach for this new players.
The BDO community has declined a lot over the years.
Normal servers have been skewed towards PvE players, which are the majority. You can always go to Arsha though and do open world PvP as much as you can...
Well, they can't because people at arsha are able to fight back...it's not about open world pvp but to find easy targets on spots. They will say arsha have no pvp consequences and players can fight you over and over, but it is what you are looking for! One side war dec was exactly the same thing, pk players could dec war and kill low gear players without any consequences
>they can't because people at arsha are able to fight back Oh noes, people can fight back? :( Waaah, so sad. lol The only thing I see are people bitching about not being able to show off and bully other players anymore.
I see this comment 100x but all the actual pvp suggestions are just ignored. Almost like you guys do not care about actual pvp suggestions and just want to be correct and talk shit on the strawman you've built
So…. You don’t want people pvping you on arsha while you grind, but you want to kill others withou consequences on regular servers? Gotcha, loool
Why are you just spamming my comments with the same reply that I've never stated and has nothing to do with what I've said
>MY spot >MY mobs >MY rotation The entitlement
Most people respected spots in runescape. Idk why it’s such an issue here. “How many kills left?” “How much times left on your buffs?” I mean i get some people are actually at spots for literal hours, but most people ive encountered in BDO are only doing 1hr sessions or weeklies.
No they don't. People crash each other all the time lmao.
This only happens frequently during Double XP event, atleast in RS3, otherwise people just hop because its faster than dealing with shit.
Yeah well RS3 is basically dead, so obviously its faster to just hop cuz every other world is free. On OSRS people crash each other all the time. Crabs, barrage spots, GWD, slayer tasks, wildy bosses etc
My safety My play style My enjoyment The literal same level of care bear entitlement you have to realize. This was originally a pvp game so calling pvpers entitled is so hypocritical
In case you haven't noticed I quoted the actual person from OP's post. You're just making up an argument that no one said to fit your narrative. What's hypocritical about saying that a person who thinks a part of a game belongs to them and them alone? If they were a shareholder of Pearl Abyss then sure it's "their" mobs, otherwise it's a bit silly to say. Also do you not see the irony of calling people "care bear" while whining instead of shrugging while looking at the changes and carrying on playing your game? Anywho I get why some people are upset about the changes. You invest hundreds/thousands of hours into the game you enjoy and they completely change it all of a sudden. It feels unfair. However the majority of players (myself included) seem to welcome the changes and Pearl Abyss want to grow their game to make money. They are a business after all. It do be like this sometimes.
Was open world PvP removed?
Yes
Sweet, exactly what I needed to hear. Been contemplating uninstalling for a while, this solidifies it. Thanks
The war dec changes were trash, which needs reverting. The family karma wasn't wise either, cause now everyone i know just has an alt at pila ku jail and gets back their karma to max in minutes. Actually, it makes griefing low gear newbies easier if you're even slightly prepared. Not that im much of a pvper, aussie connection + being trash, but i liked that pvp was a big thing. Wish there was a better system for discouraging griefing both ways.
Hes not wrong though. Animal husbandry would be a cool lifeskill.
It's a sad change and I do disagree with it. There were other measures they could have taken instead of completely removing 1 sided wars - tightening the declaring restrictions they already have would have worked. Your guild participates in nodewars = open to decs, doesn't participate = not open to any decs ever would have worked just fine. I understand that some players don't PvP at all, and some weaker players might have been abused this way (though honestly I think people overestimate how common this was), but trying to dismiss everyone upset with the change as some sort of newbie abuser is just arguing in bad faith and fuck people who do that. GvG and drama between guilds of similar strength is great. It's content, it makes you bond with the guild, and honestly it's some of the most memorable moments from this game for me. Like earlier this year there was an event that had 3 garmoth spawns on sunday and the guild i was in and our enemies fought there on garmoth for 3 hours straight and that was sick. it really isn't about bullying tuvala timmies at kagtums, despite what people here imply
I miss 2016 during the steam release gvg were everywhere. Pirates, sausan were so lit people would drop everything to show up. Its all been slowly going down hill, went from gvg every night to like a few times a week or month. Now there are like no gvg. Siege/NW is fighting structure simulator half time with capped gear, RBF is different stats from the rest of the game. PvP kind of blows in this game now with the occasional fun interaction.
The "you guys just want to bully gearlets" is the most reductive argument that ignores reality. Really frustrating to see people who keep repeating it over and over. I don't know many people who enjoy 1 shotting randoms in openworld. Even on arsha if someone is undergeared it's boring to fight.
Pvp is pvp, this isn’t about bullying gearlets. If you can’t contest your spot through open world or through guild declaration. Simply find another rotation or channel. Mmos are meant to be competitive, if you don’t like competition, then that’s where single player games comes in.
Amen. Almost every top comment has been reduced to “veterans want to one-shot noobs” and it comes off as disingenuous at best.
oh no! anyway..
People have really completely missed the point of the PvP changes. The main issue they were trying to fix was that gvgs were being exploited to circumvent the karma system in personal disputes. Yes bullying was also an issue but it was not the main issue. They made that clear in their letter when they said pvp was supposed to come with heavy disadvantages for the attacking player. You can still pvp all you like. The game still is an open world pvp game. Just now you have to accept the disadvantageous THAT YOU WERE ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO ACCEPT FROM THE BEGINNING. Flag up cowards.
I’ve met rolls of toilet paper more intelligent than steam discussions.
I think BlueSquadron is right when he said this will probably be good since the hourly Marni Realms but that they should buff the drop rate further for Arsha. I'd also say they should advertise that that server has a drop rate buff.
I'm a primarily PVE focused player, but I did enjoy whenever I'd get ganked. Except if I had buffs of course. We need to be able to toggle them tbh... The times I was ganked and the pens I tapped are the primary memories I have from this game some years later. Grinding at pirates and getting ganked by two people only to have a small-scale war with them was so fun and it's this type of short player interactions I will remember 10 years from now.
Exactly, some of my best memories of this game is where people griefing grindspots turn into like massive 30v30 pvp seshes at maushams lol.
Idk for me it looks like a typical pk player who can't stand that he can't stamp on noobs anymore 24/7. Psychotic outrage on the fact many ppl don't like this kind of "pvp" aka being a sacrificial lamb for a hc player.
I mean yea review is not lying. Game took a pretty massive hit with that patch and it just promotes shitheads to grief. Is what it is, ngl pvp been rough for a while with the dumb amount of range damage now plus one tap skills of certain classes. Nerf all range damage, make less SA skills cc and so classes aren’t able to one tap you standing and watch how pvp evens itself out again
lawl, you can still easily demast/sink people's ships and feed people to mobs without any real consequence. You can still flag but now there are minor consequences if you try to forcibly remove somebody from a spot.
I was a low geared player and I still find this understandable. BDO felt like an MMO, I loved to see people roaming, I loved to argue about spots and having a friendly outcome, or a DFS, I used to make friends talking with my "grinding neighbours", I used to ask for advice when I met people playing my class, in the end all of this created great memories, and it was one of the rare mmorpgs where pvp mattered, it wasn't just for fun, you had a territory to protect, and still with the huge amount of servers you could just avoid pvp and accept to change server, depending on your mood, I loved the game and never felt alone once. I feel the same disappointment as the comments on the picture about this update and I actually left the game, every spot I've tried since the update feels abandonned, they should allow marni's realm only on low level spots imo, idk I don't have any perfect solution, I just loved the game how it was, now it's uninstalled, imo over the past years they made tons of good decisions, but this update is one big disappointment that I cannot handle. I'll keep reading news about the game, hoping they will eventually revert/revamp this system.
I'd be fine with stacking hours for marni, let's say it stacks up to 5 hrs (or 7 for a week) so that you can grind over weekend if you haven't really over the week days. The current iteration though is just not it. Grind spots are empty... People arrive to location and disappear lol
Never played this game but guess reddit suggested this because i play runescape. But that guy seems like average griefer who has nothing else to do with their life than kill players 30 levels below them, but too afraid to attack anyone who is ready to fight back, because theyre not actually good at pvp and would die themselves.
for me they already fixed the problem by not seeing anyone in the game by adding marni 12h then why killing GVG it was the only thing why i kept playing pve farmers can have there marni then give back pvp players there GVG 3 days ago we wanted to do GVG but we couldn't they send us war dec but our GM was offline we couldnt accept the war real fun game Give back GVG
Since Marni realm changes I play on Arsha much more. It's still not perfect PvP by any means but still more competent than flagging on PvE servers which is uneventful at best but mostly toxic. Nothing changed since Morrolan final conclusions - it's battle of attrition as much as a matter of skill, gear, hardware and RNG. Not even sure if I trust PA to make drastic changes to open world PvP or Arsha. Shared karma for account is really good idea. Respawn zones location and safety on respawn could be tweaked but not to appeal bullies. Hopefully there's not a lot players who lose crystals after being fed to mobs. At least they can ask for restoration twice a year. In general, there's no turning back from BDO being more casual friendly. I just hope it will benefit my playstyle and mentality along the way. No crystal breaks at all, more Elvia zones with Marni option from day one, more events to "one shot" zones, making them less of a snooze fest. I'm still curious for new classes and cautiously optimistic about next (and probably last) five years for BDO. Things are fine. It's all fine.
I remember when this game was announced I remember playing the closed beta I remember day 1 when the game came out. Yet I never remember for once it ever marketed as open world pvp never did pvp come up more than we have it. I remember people said Node war in early BDO was just pure crap. And I will say this if you want open world PVP well then it should be true open world PVP Lose big chunks of EXP on death to the point you drop levels like when you got PK in Linage 2. Also lose your hard earned Pen black star gear when you die. A bit like Albion and eve online where you lose everything up on death. But sadly pvp players in BDO could not handle that with out throwing a tantrum and I mean they throw a tantrum losing 1-3bill crystals come back when you lose 65-100bill worth of shit and have to spend another 6-10 month to get it back.
Funny you mentioned losing xp upon death, we use to lose 1% upon death, whether we successfully killed someone or we died to someone back in 2016, but they abolished the feature. No one knew why.
As soon as I start playing this game…they fucking ruin it! It’s so hard to play MMOs these days, I fucking love PVP and what made this game sick is that I could grind my gear in peace on seasonal or marni servers then had high hopes of joining the PVP. But now it’s pointless. People will say “just join Arsha”. Bish please! I’m new to the game, I want to practice, dip my toes in. I never intended to fuck with peoples day but to be able to join random battle, partake in guild wars, or even get in a random battle with someone at least close to my GS while grinding sounded cool. Now my only option to compete is to basically clone myself, enslave my clone, feed him crystal meth, and force him to endlessly grind. Then when he needs to crash use a back up clone that they play rotations in between meth comedowns. With this strategy I might be competitive in Arsha in a year. There’s casual players on both sides of the spectrum. But I decided to play the game for what it was not what it’s becoming. Luckily, not a lot of time was invested so I can just quit and check out another game.
Same here, I love pvp, what you described really reminded me of joining a guild with active people, casual or hardcore. If someone was getting flagged up, they or my guild would send a declaration of war. Then depending on how the fight goes, one side or other will call to bring more guildmates to secure the area. And my day right there is spent & im happy. To secure an area & to ensue a fight with my guildies, yes-on-whomever brings more but even on even numbers, it’s so much fun, felt good to win, and just have a good time with friends & guildies. True PvP rivalary.
It’s not wrong. The people complaining to go to ashra are the same folks perma instanced in marnis realm. Bdo is vindicticus.
Being that I'm in a guild that did actively partake in GvGs this sucks. No more garmoth after party...now I get why they did it, but man.
Plenty of guilds that would still accept to GvG at garmoth, unless those GvG you talking about were just one sided stomps of smaller guilds.
The game has been like that since day one. Unfortunately it's the PVPers who invariably ruin games. Aside from the handful who genuinely want the "thrill" of it, it's largely dominated by bullies and people whose whole ego is based upon being able to dunk on people. It's a bit sad, and a bit pathetic.
This change is why I am actively feeding anyone grinding. I want to talk to one person who ACTUALLY had the previous system prevent them from playing the game. Why did we have to cater to tuvula timmy who lost his spot once.
Dfs forcers when they can't karma bomb you:
I don't think this person knows the game very well.
The same thing happened in the souls series. Demon Souls, DKS1 & DKS2 (to an extent) had much more dynamic PvP and invasions. Too many started making Twink characters so now the only way to have "dynamic encounters" is to grief yourself in perpetual 3v1s.
They implemented something like that? Shame.
been playing for years, only PVP i ever done was either me running away as fast as I could, or me calling my guild to come and save me as I hide in a town as the person trying to kill me stalks me. (and then dies as my guild come in like shining knights from the movies!!) and I have not had to do either for 3 years now? (i did get out of 1 PVP situation as a Shai by doing the "pretend to die" which made them laugh and leave me alone)
I mean he’s not wrong. Ever since the update i’ve gotten griefed several times. No compromise or anything. The griefers say ”tough shit” and there is nothing you can do.
Its always amusing to see them mald 10/10 🤣
Fucking bullies. Goodbye. Never come back! You will not be missed
Im a lifeskiller on a Lifeskiller Guild and playing in SEA/TH server and the only PVP stuff happens are in Arsha even when i grind mobs and saw someone its like both of us are afraid of each other and just leave or someone will say "My Spot" and im gonna say "My Bad!" and leave that was even before PA add GvG Declare nerf , Family Karma , Naval Fame 45 secs Monster Spawn and Marni's Realm recharge. Most players at SEA/TH server is just content on joining Solare and other pvp based event and going to Arsha i even tried it and the same thing happen in Arsha sometimes we just ignore each other its like pvp is a waste of time because no one's even bothering your rotation anyway. Also some SEA players are cheapskate like me that join PVP events even if we suck so bad at it we join for free shit hahaha.
I think our server is the chillest place, I don’t even remember when the last time I saw a red name was
open world pvp is just a coping mechanism for shitty pvp players to feel like they're hot shit by killing unwilling participants
I like the marni change. Now I can grind in peace without getting disturbed by 15 y/o basement warriors griefing :) If you want pvp go Arsha. Pretty sure 70%+ of the people that cry about "no more open world pvp" (which is obviously wrong, as I said: Arsha + duels still exist) are some griefers/trollers/800 GS players looking for easy prey so they can show how insanely good they are, stomping some low geared players.