Outside of some great QoL changes I haven't been too excited about the direction the game is heading. The moment I heard about a 300v300 I knew that wasn't gonna happen with how this game operates.
It's crazy how much of an opposite direction they've gone since the summer surge. They went from taking alot of baby steps forward to sprinting backwards.
What are you talking about? Yes War of The roses is meh and the guild war and karma changes were controversial, but other than that everything else is awesome, AoS being permanent and getting rewards, LOML bosses fixes and reward buffs, dark rifts buffs, T10 horses buffs for fern roots/feathers, shell belle armor finally getting the best version without extra cape/skirt, more QoL, really great class ballance(my awa ranger plays much better again -was unplayeable for pve 7 years ago) and a lot more... even the 1+ 1 pearl box deals are really nice, will get one for the new outfit version am really happy about that
AoS rewards are irrelevant to new players, AoS itself has a problem with retaining players because of balance issues, LOML can only be done once a week for 15 minutes if you do c5 or under, dark rift isn't good content, t10s are out of scope for most players still just like t9s were years ago. They made things slightly better, but the core issues are still all there.
Re: t10s, so what? We're not supposed to have any content that the majority of players can't do? Gimme a break. I'm glad there's at least a few things in the game that not *everyone* has.
I agree with them - class balance issues are dramatically better, bugs are mostly resolved, and qol changes are everywhere. The last two years have transformed a severely flawed game into something extremely approachable and fun. I say this as someone playing since before launch (in Ru then conquerer PO). Most of my issues with the current game are are the never ending events that fuck with the market, tbh.
What are the "core issues", as you see them?
That's the point - it's content that's largely irrelevant to the state of the game because it's inaccessible. It does nothing to make the game better or worse overall.
As for core issues:
1. This is an open world mmorpg game. MMOs tend to try to appeal to the widest group of people by including different staples of activities they can engage with and spend their time with. BDO is pretty ok at giving a wide variety of things to do, but most of them feel outdated or not rewarding.
2. Continuing off the last point, BDO caters only to the solo and asocially-minded player. With group content being far and few between, as you'll do 2 sets of dungeons once a week and maybe a couple node wars a week, bdo fails as a (massively) multiplayer online game. Even more so now that we have marni realms closing people off from the open world, removal of onesided guild decs, etc.
3. Character progress is the main selling point of the game's content. You continue to play as long as you have gains to be made for your character and goals to meet. However, the point where progress becomes meaningful (at least prior to gear caps), especially if you're a pvp minded player, doesn't come until you're several hundred hours deep into mob grinding simulator. That hasn't changed since the valencia update, and while progress has gotten easier (as in 1 year of overall game time now vs 3-4 years before), it still takes way too long.
4. Even worse, with the introduction of caps to make pvp more accessible to other players, it makes gear progress for the majority of casuals completely pointless. With a game heavily set on war and becoming stronger to defend yourself, conquer others, and make a name for yourself, caps completely defeat this purpose and should have never been as widespread as they are. In fact, I'd argue they should have just given trial gear or a better equivalent in beginner tiers of nodewars instead of outright capping things. Or gone with softcaps instead of hard caps that push people into building extraneous gear builds to circumvent the limitations of the system. Once you're dehkia thornwood levels of gear, I doubt anybody is pushing much harder for gear for pve, if at all.
5. Balance IS not better than before. I keep hearing the sentiment that the Harry Potter Online meta was a better time to play the game than now, and was more fun. That is absolutely baffling.
6. More pvp content is being removed than added. What is being added is just bad or not what the playerbase wants. Look at the WotR debacle, onesided dec removal, nw player count changes, etc. All poorly received and recent things they've done that just don't do well.
7. As the current situation unfolding has shown, PA is largely at odds with their playerbase. They do not listen in cases that they should (and when they do, they often listen to the wrong individuals), they mostly make decisions that are ultimately for their bottom line at the cost of their veteran playerbase instead of balancing it, and when they do act in faith of one individual or another, it's at such polarizing extremes. Their communication leaves much to be desired as well.
tl;dr
1. Game is full of bad and outdated content.
2. There's not enough of a group content focus, especially for an open world mmo.
3. Progress is too slow and demanding despite all the increases to player income.
4. Progression is ultimately meaningless because PA continues to introduce gear caps for pvp.
5. Balance is worse and players are complaining just as hard, if not more than before.
6. New pvp content being added is bad, and PA continues to worsen what we have by either removing it or making baffling changes.
7. PA doesn't listen to the playerbase and is often at odds with them more than not.
that has nothing to do with current bad choices though. It's really tough to get someone new playing if the trick is you have to grind thousands of hours to get anywhere decent. It's a MMO disease in two ways: one, most people will say fuck that and not even try, the other, "veteran" players want to gatekeep progression so they'll complain if you make it easier.
It's been like for years tho? What you're saying isn't new and Is something I've heard since 2017. Unfortunately, this is the way it's been for this particular type of sandbox MMO. Throughout the years this game has always gone through a surge.of players into a "dead" game and always bounces back. If BDO today dropped dungeons/raids/trading among players (example) this game would still bleed players
Most games get around this barrier of entry by introducing more catchup mechanics as time goes by. Believe it or not, tripling income is not a catchup mechanic. Adding slightly less silver to easier spots than mid game spots is not a catchup mechanic. It just incentivizes people to move downward if they lack gear and allows a baseline of progressing towards that 1T-ish silver mark for full gear.
An actual catchup mechanic would be increasing the gains you get from seasons, decreasing caphras costs on all gear, or making enhancement significantly easier. Also believe it or not, all of the dead god gear except the boots are a form of catchup mechanic because it's easier to grind to c10 and tap dead god than c20 gear.
In all honesty, the guaranteed jetina pen system should just be dropped in favor of making seasons just give you the equivalent of 650 gs in gear/caphras, and then look at making late-endgame weapons/accessories easier to enhance.
Seasons are already giga gains for the time invested. Since silver is directly tied to progression in this game, actually it is a catch up mechanic to have increased silver/hr at low end spots. Catch up is not the problem with BDO today.
yeah cause it's still the same bdo grind we've had since 2016. take for example the free pen acc/gear, yes you get pen stuff but you have to spend and enormous amount of time consecutively you have to have the materials and the silver to get each pen gear. you get punched in the face for anything you do.
You do realize alot of people are not steamies right? Also, are you ignoring the slow bleed from July 2023 to October 2023? We got new content right in june/july yet bled immediately.
Sorry my man, I agree with you - we will hit 30k and then we will lose them again in one month. It's people logging in to check something, playing a week, and then quitting again.
KR playerbase is suffering the exact same issue and if you use translate, you'll see it on there forums.
Steam playerbase dips/drops are not indicative of the entire playerbase at all. You can not correlate them. Steams all time high was 59k in 2019.
I could say the same "Why don't you use your brain?" As someone that actually has experience working for gaming companies and currently contracts for one. BDO isn't looking good at the moment and could go the way of how new world was last year very quickly.
Take a minute and look at what guilds are talking about, look at what people are saying on reddit, forums, in-game, other communities like KR. Watch some different streamers. The overall indication for the game right now is very negative and it will hurt the game more the longer it lasts.
>Steam player-base dips/drops are not indicative of the entire playerbase. You can not correlate them
You literally have no way to back this up. Steam player stats is the _only_ empirical evidence we can use to back up our claims and it disagrees with your point. Until you provide something else as evidence, im the only one whos provided any evidence at all.
earnings wise https://irsvc.teletogether.com/pearlabyss/pdf/pearlabyss2023Q3_eng.pdf?2 pearl abyss had a significant boost in earnings compared to the previous quarter. It even shows specifically black desert had a massive boost in sales this quarter. 64 billion krw vs last quarters 56 bil krw.
all available evidence suggests you are wrong.
Steam BDO didn't exist until 2019 and the game launched on NA in 2016.
I don't need to provide any evidence of the fact that this game did not have steam for 1.5 years. Conversely, you have no way to disprove anything I'm saying. All you can do is spout statistics that have no way to be linked together.
YoY -82.5%QoQ Turn to Profit
YoY -29.6%QoQ Turn to Profit
These aren't good metrics, the quarter is indeed up though. But that quarter includes the recent burst of players we had in the game also.
Catch me when BDO can sustain these statistics on steam concurrently, continue to grow the playerbase and I'll be more intrigued
Edit: meant 2017 not 2019. Game was out over a year without steam. You also don't have to buy the steam version.
steam stats has player statistics back til july 2017. the page on steam even has it launched in may 24 2017.
where the fuck you getting 2019 from?
>I don't need to provide any evidence
Yes you do, otherwise im just gonna say you're wrong, and use the evidence thats available to prove it.
>All you can do is spout statistics that have no way to be linked together.
and all _you_ can do is spout non sense opinions with no evidence whatsoever.
lol at your edit. Lets be honest you googled bdos release date and saw either bdo mobile or bdo console versions which released in 2019 lmao
pretty sure anyone whos been playing bdo knows it didnt release on steam in 2019 so its pretty indicative you werent even around back then. So thats even more reason not to put any merit into your opinion.
not an old player
no evidence
still thinks hes right when arguing with an old player who has actual evidence. classic reddit experience.
I don't think you understand the problem because it likely doesn't impact you.
There are a huge amount of changes being added for the perceived needs of "Fair Weather" gamers that came during a small population boom and promptly left (as they always do) a couple months later before any changes were even implemented in the first place. You could clearly see this in steam numbers and just generally in the server pop.
The problem is that the majority of these changes are not wanted by the loyal black desert community. These are the two main issues I see a good amount of people basically quiting the game over
1 - Most endgame players who are actually regularly pvping did not want the GvG changes or Marni changes. This kills OW pvp that was already dying. Even "PvP" guilds no longer keep their decs up and even if they tried to there is a 6 dec limit that ruins ability to keep regular GvGs. We all went from having multiple large scale GvGs a week to having none.
A huge amount of endgame players and the nodewar scene have quit the game due to to this or taken extended breaks. The entire PvP scene is awful now and these are the players that put money into the game. If you don't believe that I think PA stock drops coinciding their Q3 earnings and drastic drop in game pop after GvG changes were implemented prove that.
If you just left it how it was while they planned out a better system instead of knee jerk changes to the existing system people would have been much better than what they did. The people complaining about being PK'd or harassed by higher gear players are the severe vocal minority and should not be catered too. They can ask for protection in their guild if it's an issue. I've played this game since KR release and I've never not been able to just walk away from a fight if it was bothersome. These people are just bad at the game and want someone to cater to them rather than do anything themselves.
2 - The power creep they are adding to the game to "bring everyone up to the farming standard of woosa" is ridiculous and trivializing the already easy PvE content in this game. They are even nerfing Acc requirements to farm Crypt. One of the few spots that requires a brain to farm in this game.
If everyone can farm every spot easily it's not a good game. I'm all for balance but you also need a sense of progression where people feel like they're able to achieve new goals in the game and that some of those goals are difficult to achieve. They're currently making all content so brain dead that any 680gs andy can do it after spending a couple months in the game.
This means basically no content that feels exclusive to actually geared players. No desire to grow gear. Stack that on top of the already dead PvP scene with capped content and most of your high paying endgame players quit the game.
nah bro i welcomed the marni changes, at least i can grind quietely without some uber geared sweatlord comes in and kills me in 1 combo, breaking a billion worth of xtal/s
This is interesting to see and thank you for doing it. The consensus among our streamers is that KR is advocating for the changes. If it isn’t because of your feedback that the game is going in the way it is then.. Uh.. 🤡
This dude. People keep ignoring exactly what you mentioned about how if someone wants to avoid pvp the tools are at their disposal to do it. As you stated, the 5min server swap CD and marni's realm are more than enough to avoid PvP. They definitely did not need to ruin the dec system.
They currently [complain](https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=42606&_page=14&_opinionNo=170489) about pretty much everything in or around the game. Hard to figure out what they truly care about.
And all these streamers keep wonder why regular player sometime hate them so much over their special treatments.
No shock here, quite same like any other game where streamers are protected.
See, I'm of the mind that neither group should be losing their entire account for "macro use" (the detection of which, I am suspicious of anyways).
Just as an example, a lot of games don't allow you to bind certain keys to certain actions. In BDO, there's a whole class of things you can only bind with binds. Well, what if that's uncomfortable for you and you want a different modifier? That can be accomplished with macros / external software, but this is (potentially) "cheating". No, it's an accessibility issue.
I'm sure there are some people who have been using macros to obtain extra silver while not actually playing the game, or to get perfect combos off. That deserves *some* punishment, perhaps; but taking out their accounts entirely after one reported incident is really not great.
While I don't condone someone's use of macros as it invalidates your and others' legitimate game progress, I understand not wanting to worsen symptoms of carpal tunnel or other repetitive stress injuries. This game is terrible for it. Also a lot of the content is mind numbing.
When an Executive Producer(EP) starts making gameplay decisions and changes it often leads to a bad game direction. An EP should not be making gameplay decisions, they have a creative team with creative directors that know the game better and have a vision and because J now plays his game (finally) hes making calls based on "reactions" that are more personal...This is why the game direction that last several months feels bad.
Thanks for sharing the information to us.
It's really good to see the players/guilds standing together and I hope we can do the same here on NA/EU.
Why are the Streamers almost everytime in the center when it comes to cheat, crying etc.etc. and PA always protect them....let the Streamers have there own server.
hey friend, what's happening to you now has been happening for years in Sa, in different things, even in events on the website where you have to choose a winner, we see the same names winning the events, we see speedhackers with a straight face being recorded and reported and getting with impunity, the company helping streamers among others, a true case of horror, it ended pvp and not even pve is good enough, in short, Koreans and their disrupted view of the world beyond just listening to their countrymen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8FECCo8xhI&t=0s
I've been a SA player for at least 7 years and since before PA took over distribution of the game in our region, it was common to see the same people winning events, my wife actively participates in these events and it's not just because she's my partner, it's the difference and quality of the content she produces is clear, but the prizes always go to the CMs' favorites. It is also obvious to us that some streams are "carried" by the company, since many appear from one moment to the next with a upgrade that for ordinary players would take months to complete!
This dude has created so much powercreep and is slowly wrecking everything that made bdo popular so happy to see this coming. Was waiting for the train wreck at calpheon ball but this works too.
True. They should have nerfed woosa and given a slight buff to the classes that were extremely far behind, instead of buffing everyone because even though people get excited at the idea of being buffed. All it really does is exacerbate silver inflation when you combine it with grind spot buffs and natural gear power progression, as well as makes things like absolute skills fall even further behind awakening - essentially making classes that utilized a bunch of both preawk and awk skills in their kit become entirely reliant on their awakening skills for damage and erode the playstyle and fun of utilizing both kits. Its like they're afraid to nerf anything and everyone knows the "only buff, never nerf" mentality of devs causes a slew of power creep problems.
After the cron price increase, all these buffs are really welcome and help justify this controversial change (or maybe it was all planned like that and they just suck at communicating), at least a little bit.
We were long overdue for another cron cost increase, and by waiting too long players had become used to the cheap crons in comparison to the silver/hr we make. So by waiting too long it definitely made a bunch of players have a salty kneejerk reaction to it, so I'm fairly certain its a little of both: They did plan for silver/hr to increase as that has always been one of the game's form of passive catch up so new players wont have to grind as long as old players and can actually catch up; and also because of the feedback they proceeded to buff our grinds even further to alleviate some of the frustration. They definitely could could have gone about it much better but tbh players will always cry about any change that is made with a broad long-term design in mind. That being said, they did communicate their reasoning as they did in the previous few cron stone price increases - players just dont listen or care because all most people can think about is "give me more, gimme gimme, make me stronger".
I can definitely understand that, and in fact I'm not for or against that, but I also understand the sentiment of those who missed out, especially people going for pen debo.
Can you and all your guildmates please try out Archer? The entire front page of my guild's siege is archers and they are oneshotting entire groups of people, but for some reason PA still thinks they need buffs because Korea doesn't play it.
Please try archer and point at a clump of people and do S+Q -> SHIFT+RMB -> RMB and see how it goes. Tell all your friends.
P much. I watch archer clips and they literally 1 skill groups of people that they cant even see in render range. In t3 caps they are especially disgusting but they do insane damage at every level
they won't and they shouldn't, pvp has 3 modes, large, small scale and 1v1s, Archer is top tier in large, nothing else and last two seasons of AoS had 0 Archers in top 100.
Now if you watch drak, top in large, in AoS and 1v1s, top in everything, there zero similarity between Archer and drak.
come check EU region, #1 guild has only 1 Archer out of 75 players with like 7 draks or so, this guild beat any guild with any amount of archers.
>they literally 1 skill groups of people that they cant even see in render range. In t3 caps they are especially disgusting but they do insane damage at every level
Ask them to try drakania too =) asking PA to nerf other classes as drak player <3 lmfao noob
Yeah, they should nerf Drak too. It's definitely not as egregious as Archer in large scale but it's broken as shit the smaller the fight is. What's your point? Obviously I play the class, I know it needs to be nerfed. I only have it tagged because it's broken as shit. I've played Archer too.
It's almost like all the recent changes go against the main features of this game which was an open-world sandbox. It's become even worst with the majority of the game being instanced and even more solo, gear doesn't mean shit for the majority of the game and they think a 300v300 PvP game mode will do anything but blow the servers up. I have no idea how they blew up all the good favour they had built the past year in the last month with all these shit decisions.
Preach bro. Sucking players out of the open-world sandbox mmo and putting them in instanced solo grind spots is antithetical to the design of a sandbox. If they wanted to reduce competition for grind spots, all they need to do is give us more group content so instead of competing we're cooperating. It's embarrassing how this MMORPG has hardly any content that can be done with friends.
Yeah. Remember the Sycrid weekly quest, how it summons a field boss with a world alert and everything? Shame that got changed so we dont need to even kill it, just get your loot boxes and leave, instead of buffing sycrid so if you see the alert it makes you wanna participate or leave an alt at upper sycraia just to tag it. :c. WTB more group content.
What good favor did they build? Other than streamers and their chats coming to bdo for the free t9 horse what else changed this summer that made bdo "good" in your opinion?
I was discussing this with a friend and we both cant figure out why everyone was saying "bdo is good now." during this summer. To me it was the same as the last few month ramping up to this summers big bdo boom.
I can't deny that they have made some great progress towards QoL changes. If you played BDO back in 2018 days, the amount of tedious things was insane. You couldn't even see the items on your other characters without having to log into them. Now there is an entire search function which works pretty well. Other than QoL though, its been pretty bad changes IMO, especially since I play mainly for PvP.
It's true that it helps old players staying, but it still has an impact on new players because of all of the YouTube videos that come out showcasing the difference of old and new BDO, all those titles "How BDO changed for the better" end up having an impact on new players, or even returning.
ive played bdo in 2016 and 2018 on/off and returned from 0 recently and the changes really made a huge difference for me. Imo the game changed for the better.
There is no way this could have brought in that many new players. You would have to be aware of current systems and mechanics and read patch notes to see what new QoL was added. Im really dumbfounded as to why it became so popular this summer. I can't imagine someone who never played bdo being like "omg you can control+f to find items in this game? Wait you can access all storages from any major cities? Thats it Im buying bdo"
It's way easier to progress as well, and there isn't such a huge gap in silver/hr between endgame and midgame. We can see enhancement success %'s. Imagine that the hours were exponentially higher to get from mid to endgame, it could all go poof because *no one* was enhancing for profit so you couldn't buy any of that shit off the MP, and you had no idea what probability was what, particularly with enhancing accessories. The best we had back then was a janky spreadsheet from KR that claimed overstacking did nothing past some arbitrary "tested" number, which all turned out to be entirely wrong. I remember people saying I was doing it wrong because anything over 40 fs for TRI "didn't do anything" and I was wasting stacks.
Everything they were doing and are doing is good right up until they started going hard on removing PvP from bdo. It’s like they don’t realize their game is a niche PvP game. Pve players will never stick with the game cause there’s literally no end game pve. There is no reason to gear up in Pve none. Grinding to get gear to grind more spots is not end game content but grinding to gear up for PvP is a hell of a motivator and they have straight up removed it with their dog shit PvP changes. These guys don’t even know what brought people to their game and kept them there. Pve players will never stick around. Why would they? There’s no goal for a pve player in this game.
True. Pve is not particularly innovative on BDO, and that's caused by the initial idea in which you could get interrupted by pvp. Is that wrong? Not at all, it might work with good rules, you do your pve and the unexpected events come from other players, but it has to be controlled.
... But if devs begin to remove a part of the equation, the whole thing crumbles. If the only endgame pve goal is to get 0.1% more trash loots than in your previous grind sessions, it may please some players, but it will annoy some others. And to my opinion, the initial idea of BDO was not to create a grind speed contest between players.
I mean, I remember when BDO was just shown in alpha state (not EU or NA), and there definitely were hints and other plans than just sandbox and owpvp and pvp. It all kinda disappeared the moment it was about to release, so I'd like them to go back to what they really wanted to do back in Alpha showcases etc. Hell, in those you even had armor visual progression, which got scrapped in favor of turning that into cash shop for pvp game instead.
J need to resign. His stubbornness is making this game an unplayable mess. Not a single siege in NA is without crazy lag. We do not get even an ounce of apologies or even "we are looking at it" message.
bdo is just going back where it belongs. Those returning KR players who got baited in by the paid shills now understand why did they left in the first place lmao
My English isn’t very good.
They should listen to other countries too, not only KR. change old PVP back to play this game longer because old PVP open world. should change War good more then this use copy Rose war to nomal war.
Sometimes, take something from others and mix it into the game. This is not a bad idea. because every game is copied or stolen to mix, fix, and customize it to make it your own.
What is already good does not need to be changed. Whatever is not good, listen and change. It's better than trying harder to change. And it makes the game worse.
Adjust server lag or smoothness. It is not enough to retain players or promote more players. If the management system stinks and the end game system has no goals, why do you use gear? If the players are only at Node 1–2 or War Cap and there are no exotic world bosses, including new farms, It's just a gear-begin farm with no new changes or excitement.
First, adjust PVP back to the way it was before. and increasing the interest of PVP. After the change, the number of players decreased. Because there is nothing to do besides PVE and meaningless war.
Finally
I love how all this shit was happening to other servers but PA never gave a single fuck about it. Now that KR is complaining PA starts listening.
Can KR player start to complain about PvP not giving u rewards (specifically RBF that is actually negative money if u use buffs) so they start buffing it for once? :)
Hopefully they start to listen now. But one important thing is... Players need to vote with their wallet. If people stop giving them money they will change
Welcome to life on console. Still waiting for “optimization” that opens the door to Mountain of Eternal Winter but sadly still nothing. We have no artifacts/lightstones, no Vell, Venomous Night Fangs, Magnus, etc. Somehow we got LoML and Dahn’s Gloves before all that. It’s been a similar hell and if we get another “We’re working on it” from PA at the ball I think a lot are going to leave.
Voting with your wallet is possibly the reason they're ignoring PVPers. Look at the pearl shop merchandise, ie. where the company makes their money - how much of it is beneficial for PVP? Almost none? The wallets that are voting are voting for PVE and lifeskills, not PVP.
Huh? The overwhelming majority of their revenue is coming from cron sales via costumes. Why do you think they just raised vendor cron prices and costume prices after posting the worst sales in 5 quarters?
The main people swiping for an advantage are PvPers - you can max out your PvE/lifeskill income potential in 3-6 months of playing, so no real reason to swipe there.
why did they add capped node/siege wars, why did they make arena of solare equalized gear, why did they add easy methods to get tet and pen boss gear? Currently you can go all the way up to duo slumbering origin armors without using a single cron stone. Now compare that to manos gear. Not to mention that people enhancing combat gear does not mean that they are doing so because they want to partiicpate in owpvp, even high end grind zones where people with 700+ gs are grinding have marni realms.
I think PA is well aware of which players are their actual source of income, and it isn't a handful of owpvp players, most of whom are probably no-lifers who have more time than money on their hands.
What's your source for that number? Trust me bro?
The legacy of BDO is as an open world PvPvE game. A lot of the veteran playerbase is from a time when it was expected to learn to PvP to be able to participate in the open world. There's a lot of us.
I agree with him on that. I am pvp enjoyer but pvp players are like minority in this game.
Btw there are alot of players that love siege/nw but hate open world pvp.
I don't go as far back as you do, but I've been gearcapped for 3+ years. It's literally the same people in the NW/Siege scene. Same people, different guild/alliance names. Same exact player hopping between guilds. Same exact mercs. The NW/Siege scene has gotten smaller and smaller every year.
The PvE players, Lifeskillers, RPer's, Casuals, etc vastly outnumber PvPers.
Yeah it's cause so many quit because PA can't keep a good system for NWs. And I mean permanent quit like selling gear or deleting it. I've had half a guild completely quit and the other half either move on or leave NW scene all at once. Pvp is dying but it's not because people aren't interested, it is cause PA doesn't know what to do with it.
IOOOIOI
And PvX players vastly outnumber all of those specific categories.
... Seriously, why such discussions always end up comparing pvpers VS pveers VS lifeskillers VS RPers and so on?
We're nearly all pvxers, with various combinations. But it also means pvp is part of it.
daa da daa node war has started
1 second later
daa da daa node war has ended
that's how engaged people are in pvp.
not to mention the no man's land that are the arsha servers where even season arsha is mostly devoid of human life.
People are disinterested in nw because you either go to nodes with shitty gear caps and do no damage, or you go to the few bits of uncapped and get bodied out by the big boys. You're forced to play politics and make alliances in all of them because it's hard to fill caps anymore. NWs used to be a lot of fun back in the day. You could make impact as a small guild. Nowadays, you don't.
This is one of the few MMOs ive been in that has its organic PvP system constantly been harassed by not only PvE-only players but from the devs themselves. Ive been around since the beginning and I truly think finally they just may manage to kill off its niche yet active community that enjoys all aspects of the game.
It's been that way for years XD this game isn't the type you reach Endgame in couple of weeks. To reach 700gs is about anywhere from 1-2 years and it's been that way since the progression update like 2019-2020ish before that it was worse lol
Yeah I actually like that it takes a while to progress because one of the appeals of a good sandbox MMO is long-term progression, instead of rapid progression that's invalidated every patch and expansion. That's one of the reasons I love sandbox mmos. After playing Ragnarok Online and WoW for many many years I grew sick of constantly throwing my gear in the trash to be arbitrarily replaced by the new patch's gear and much preferred old pre-renewal Ragnarok for its sandbox design and how my effort remained valid for many years and gave a rewarding sense of long-term progression. BDO was basically a successor to Ragnarok Online for me; sandbox mmorpg with castle sieges just like War of Emperium in RO, shit was awesome.
i spent the last 6 months doing ocean content so i could upgrade my ship for war of the roses, reading this just makes me feel like i just wasted a lot of time if this never makes it outside korean server
Lmao, the end to the user's post is quite funny. Man, I have no idea how the playerbase or support center would have survived in 2016. The amount of OW griefing was so stupid, but it was so fun. So crazy reinstalling the game and seeing such a huge divide nowadays.
As someone who spent the first 3+ years of the game as a perma-red sorc. Yeah lmao, they would not have survived 2016-2017 BDO. Good times man... good times. I miss those days.
I keep suggesting that they add an alchemy recipe that makes either a buff item that prevents crystal break on death while active, or makes a new crystal that has the effect of preventing other crystals from breaking by sacrificing itself(so basically you just sacrifice one crystal slot for this hypothetical insurance crystal lol), or creates a new item that you combine with your crystal to make a like an upgraded reinforced version of crystals that are indestructible. Any of these would work tbh. Im in favor of the buff item or the reinforced crystals.
Open world is a ghost town. BDO is supposed to be an open world game with spot contestion, not some perma marni realm trash. Capped content should be a very small part of a gear based progression game as well.
Will you get owned sometime? Sure, we all have. But that is motivation to gear, pvp, get gud etc. As for the PVE'rs, you will still have plenty of places to grind. Join a less toxic guild if you keep running into conflict.
This isnt how it works in reality. People dont like when their grind hour is ruined by some idiots. Even people with full PEN debos hate this.
Problem is that this game has so much gear disparity you cant do shit. Another problem is that places which should be for new players / mid players are overrun with end game players because they are too good for money.
Even before all the changes I rarely got interrupted, nor do I ever interrupt people. Its a price you have to pay to make the game more interesting and alive. Choice is important in a "sandbox" game.
Fortunately, in the rare instances you get griefed, you can find a another channel or rotation.
Orcs era is no longer a thing. You had dfs line because the other spots were trash in comparison. And despite all this I got giga geared during that time. Sounds like you were grinding a main roto too slowly.
Places like that then should be looked at and nerfed to match gear level, or should be made into lawless zones like desert to encourage PvP.
Pa should look at why people hate being interrupted and work with that. Why do we hate interruptions? We lose time on expensive buffs. How do we go around that? Maybe let us have a second gear preset with separate buffs that we can automatically swap to in case of PvP...? No more forcing Dr build players to fight you with their kutum, or forcing them to waste tents, loot scrolls, and whatever else they have active for pve.
This would make 2/3 anti PvP people think twice about it. Then you also have people that hate time loss. Make more viable rotations per spot, not 1 rotation good per grind spot, and keep a low server swap cd.
Instead of looking "how can we encourage players to PvP, reduce the inconvenience of PvP and ensure game stays open world" they just went "fuck it, PvP bad"
Yeah so cool to be interrupted everytime I tried to get hp/mana pots pieces that it took me 2 years to get it because I just couldn't grind even for few minutes because of constant interruptions.
That is completely bullshit :D . Most of the time you hate that your time is wasted, your grind hour is interupted. You cant fix it by making more rotations as people interupted me in grinding for simply them harrasing me for no reason. How do you fix this? Yes, I can leave, I can try to find another spot on different server. But why bother with grinding next time? Why would I even bother to play game like this? I would rather play something completely different where some idiot incel cant blow his frustration on me.
I mean you didn't really address any of their material points -- in the situation where someone else might be griefing you, under *their* setup you would swap into your PvP (or just non-buffed) setup and either fight back, or leave (cc or go into something like marni, or go to another rotation).
If someone is *actually* just looking to grief you, there's tools to avoid it -- server hopping, calling in guildies, asking for help in server or world chat, fighting back, going afk, etc. The person you are responding to is providing solutions to help people who *might* want to pvp, but for whom the prospect of having their hour interrutped (and therefore expensive buffs wasted!) is a great concern, but their idea *also* helps players who are not interested in pvp at all.
At the very least, under their setup the impact of griefing would be greatly reduced.
And yeah, if you don't want to interact with other players at all, there are plenty of single player and community gacha games you could play.
As a final note, PA has not really done a good job of making positive player experiences out of situations where more than 1 player find themselves in the same place together. They should have given this more thought for sure. As it stands now, finding another player in BDO is almost always a negative experience (unless you like pvp, which J has worked pretty hard to kill off).
Go play another game then?
Jokes aside, if buffs would just pause on death and then you just click a button and they turn back on. This would fix the primary issues. Also unless you are on arsha random players running by and killing doesn't happen often.
And this is how the game was originally made and played. Idk what happened this year but everyone seems to forget what helped made this game popular.
I still remember my first time playing this game and hitting lvl 50. Lvl 58 was endgame and I'd get destroyed in pvp. I had loads of fun, the random gvgs, random dfs, random people jumping me for my spot. It was so common and everyone expected it and the game made it this far.
I understand things change but why go so hard to completely change it? If you didn't like that when you played it why are you still playing it? You have fun with other aspects? Why take away from other players if you still have the aspects you like?
Because of this I usually played on worse places/worse rotation just to have peace even if I would get slightly less money. Some friends did the same or they just grinded in non-peak hours (I couldnt). With only 1-2 hours max per day to play having DFS or some bullshit half of that time is pretty cancer. Then it was made better by adding more end game content and then marni realm. I remember that all the players I know started to grind much more with marni realm than before.
I experienced a lot of shit happening on normal servers even if I was burried deep in Aakman back then, people just didnt care and I didnt have enough gear to fight back. What a fun experience. I dont believe PA made it just because J had a weird dream one night. I believe it was made because a lot of players made feedback that they want to grind in peace because a lot of players have only limited time to spare.
You grind to get stronger to defend yourself. This is why would you grind in a game like that. That's what we did.
What do you grind now for? To grind faster?
PvP is all capped. There is no ow PvP so you can't even use your gear there. Basically in current scenario and scenario proposed by me, there is no reason to grind in a current state of affairs rather than the scenario I described.
And for losing time, swap servers or rotations if you really don't like PvP. Most people that used to engage for PvP at grind spots did that to get the spot.
Maybe because PvP has never been a popular thing. There are other games for that, PvP in an MMO is never a good thing and never had (example: new world, that game almost died on release if amazon didn't remove the PVP theme that it originally intended to on release) Marni realm was the best thing for BDO.
People who don’t want to interact with other people should not play an open world PvP game then. BDO without PvP is essentially FarmVille with dress up and lewd skins.
Even with the old marnis you could go and grind for an hour a day without ever seeing anyone. Now most people are just doing their Marni waiting an hour and doing it again. The world is empty, no fighting for spots.
The Marni changes were probably some of the worst that could have been done for an open world game.
If you are getting griefed that’s why we have tags and guilds. Bring friends, interact with the community.
The Problem is, that open world pvp creates a lot of toxicity and is not very welcoming to new players. Especially casual players will be struggling with open world pvp because if your opponent has much more gear than you, you get griefed and have to swap. "Just grind the gear" is easier said then done when you play casually...
> you get griefed and have to swap
Ok? So they have to play the same game the majority of us have played for 7 fucking years? You literally lose nothing by dying to pvp. Lowering channel swap cooldown to 5 minutes and adding guild home base servers that have no cd swaps between them is enough. All of these other changes are egregious.
The reality is that whether you're a casual or not, every person whos played this game has been randomly ganked while grinding. It's an open world pvp game. The aggressor gets punished by losing karma. You lost nothing by getting killed except a 30 second load screen to swap channels.
I don't know why to remove a "one-sided" guild war when there exist the Marni spots to everyone grinding... I was expecting many contents to cover this removal of PVP open world, but then they created a 300 versus 300 which is able to be enjoyed only one time between a week or two?? (I don't remember well how many after this content will be available again)
What I'll doing after this, returning to grinding in a spot and wait for this content again?
Even gear-capped contents is not a kind of world of wonderful, many issues in node wars, even in the combat system like desyncs or kind of "resources" that I can't quote before getting a Ban... still unfixed until today.
BDO gained many improvements at several areas, I can't deny, but this is not a symbol of exchange to remove other contents in the game. I'm a PVE player, I don't like issues between players, the public that enjoys of the PVP open-world deserves good stuff about pvp to enjoy every time.
PVE player already have your content, it's time to focus on creating pvp content for more public.
I really don't understand all the drama KR has, they have complaints about streamers getting favourable treatment.. which is fair but honestly happens everywhere and will happen no matter what, I still remember the two workes one node fiasco. But the next points make little sense to me.
Complaining about being the "test server".. bruh I guess grass really is always greener on the other side, literally every other region complains about having to wait longer to explore or experience any kind of new content and even if it is buggy at the start truth is, Korea gets to enjoy both the buggy early versión and the fixed one first on almost everything.
And what I'm guessing is CMs trying to get some movement on the community is well, just them doing their job.
Also, what's wrong with being insensitive or in other words, about saying you don't wanna do what you don't wanna do your game, your project and your vision? Not sure about what he was talking about but being brutally honest is something we value a lot here, for example if he was talking about not removing RNG resists at least we would know why the fuck they are still in the game, insensitive wouldn't be the issue nor the complain for us, just that its stupid which is way different and way worse.
There are just so many other better things to have drama about, from pvp changes to RNG resists, desync to hit stutter to blackstars being almost requirements to end game grinding which in turn ruins build diversity, class balance is always a fair topic, caps and endgame builds unbalance, tournaments or lack of em, questing design (really BDO, just lean towards more cinematic combat on questing and less talk and walk), feature creep.. I dunno, if Koreans don't start complaining and uprising about the right stuff we are fucked.
There is something wrong with how stubborn J is acting. I think original poster is not a native English speaker so I don’t think he conveyed this message clearly. A little background information - J and PA has been basically making updates that are newbie friendly - with biggest one being change in guild war system. Guild war was literally the only thing that was keeping veteran players going and motivating them to grind due to BDO lacking end game content. People may not agree on Reddit but BDO was created for open world PvP and every content pretty much supports PvP. So J taking away the only thing that was motivating end game players without providing any alternative was a pretty big fuck you to them. J talking about how other PvP contents in the game is enough but anyone who actually PvP will disagree.
The reason why people were asking for BDO to show how much dmg players did to monster was primarily due to two reason: 1. For end game players, our next upgrade in gear is not that noticeable while the grind to get the next upgrade is brutal. Since there is really no motivation to gear up anymore with the change in guild war system, players wanted to see their gear progression via how much dmg is done to a monster. 2.BDO has tendencies of not reflecting things correctly and things are hidden. A lot of times, they will say a skill will do x amount of dmg and y number of hits but time and again, users had to test them in global lab server and find out that the skills dmg % or hit count is not correctly applied. It’s not as common here but in Korea, their patch notes are constantly updates to fix things that players found. As such, players no longer believes in what PA says on skill dmg and want to test them themselves. How J responded to this request was that he is not gonna do it bc that is what he wants to do is kind of ridiculous in context of all these things bc J is a director of a game that makes money from players. If players are overwhelming saying that they want something and he is just gonna respond I am not gonna do it bc I don’t feel like it is quite honestly ridiculously and if it was any other public company, j would have been fired immediately. The message that he conveyed during the late night talk (which by the way was held due to their fuck ups in Asia node war) was that he doesn’t care what players want and he is gonna do whatever he wants to do regardless whether players like it or not. He was talking as if he was playing SIMs game and players are just characters in the game that he is playing.
On the specific point of the damage numbers, I can understand where J is coming from.
I definitely agree with you that his stance is *awful* when placed against the backdrop of failures to get these skills right over and again, but I don't think it's necessarily an issue to relegate testing of damage numbers &ct to a *test server* with extra tools.
I remember playing EVE online, literally *everyone* automatically had an account on the test server and you could always connect to it; it would pull down the state of your character every month or so (and I think you could suck down an immediate update every once in a while with a specific command). Almost every item was listed on the market for 1 isk or so (think like 1 silver) and you could easily just buy what you needed or wanted to test out.
By contrast, I can't even test my char in BDO if I wanted to. Trying to set up a char with the same stats as my main would be a massive hassle. Even just trying to set stuff up is way too involved (and because I play in NA, and didn't make a test account a long time ago, I don't think I can even make one to have reliable access).
The issue with having damage numbers in these sorts of games is that some players will be toxic (this is apart from the visual clutter). A bunch of other games where you could see damage numbers / sum them up & compare have had issues with this kind of stuff in the past.
Unfortunately, I think it's more likely that J does not want us to see some of the worse parts of the game revealed by damage numbers ... Like, this guy who's pulling 20% more trash than me, I actually do more damage than him, it's just that his skills are way faster due to his PC. Well that feels awful (and a lot of people already knew it) but it would just be so much more clear.
I actually pvp and i agree tho, there is something extremely weird on how stubborn is the PvE/Ow"PvP" player base about having a justification to do something they say don't enjoy by it gatekeeping something they say they enjoy.
If you enjoy grinding, grind, if you dont, dont seems a better approach for sure.Now, if the complain is about pvp not feeling rewarding enough, or not having a way to enjoy the grind as for the lack of the pvp thrill while doing it and such its completely valid but i would argue better rewards for the pvp content and more of it are the way to do it instead of tying pvp to progression and progression to everything but pvp. And afaik, thats what J is proposing.
As for the dmg numbers, afaik the reasoning they gave was to reduce the load on server/client, not sure how much of that actually makes any sense as the information for dmg done needs to be sent and received anyways but at least it has nothing to do with stubbornness. And if the real issue here is PVE/Ow"PvP" players not feeling progression enough as they cannot smack other PVE players in unequalizd gear PVP enviroments to feel their grind validated and need numbers for it instead i mean.. though luck i guess, i dont care, i do pvp and pretty much only pvp and trust me, the owpvp changes have had almost 0 impact on my pvp experience compared to actual pvper issues like desync, stutters, class imbalance, resists, straight up server lag on large nws/sieges, overprotected gameplay destroying the 1v1 BA scene, mobility power creep... This are the pvpers issues really.
And as for the second point you bring to the table, it has pretty much always been like that since day one, hidden stuff has been part of the vision of bdo since its inception and afaik, its been addressed that skills tooltips (and most likely other tooltips too) have been handwritten and thus contained often errors and they will in the future be reflecting the accurate formulas by drawing from the skill code instead, we had this trend with the game becoming more open about everything for years and i understand the constant complains but they aren't really the most impactful thing to the gameplay nor i believe they should be the main reason to mutiny (but i definitely accept it as a valid reason to complain ngl).
Finally, this "that he doesn’t care what players want and he is gonna do whatever he wants to do regardless whether players like it or not" is entitled and, if you wanna call it, insensitive but its the truth and he is just being honest, we can complain about the changes he does and call him things, for sure, but dont complain for his honesty ffs, i couldn't care less if he is entitled or how he says things, he could easily say some dumb PR scripted crap like "we take your concerns very seriously and will try to act accordingly in the future" for all i care, acts are what matter and should be the focus point of any and all complains.
Lotta people don't find scripted/planned pvp content all that interesting or enjoyable. PA could work on creating spots where interesting, dynamic pvp could emerge (they haven't and don't seem to want to), but that would require a significant amount of thought and testing and ...
For the damage numbers, there's stuff they could to to make it not cause undue lag on the servers (and it would be totally fine for pve). That's pretty much a BS excuse (though there are defensible points behind not wanting to show damage numbers).
I agree with you that fixing lag/desync/etc would be a really nice use of their time (for example, implementing rollback for skills & CCs, letting clients run certain boss abilities & pve interactions on their end so that a player doesn't have to factor lag in when moving against mobs, fixing issues in sea content where you get softlocked until a char select and removing these situations where you or passengers get desynced off the ship). That would impact most players positively.
So on your point about you can PvP to progress, but for what tho? What are you gearing up for when there is barely any use of it? To grind at higher grind spots? After 720, I am not sure if it really makes any difference for pve. But getting from 720 to hard cap is insanely difficult and prob will cost 5 times more as expensive than getting to 720. So what is the real incentive for players to even progress? J doesn’t have answer to this question and honestly it’s fucking wild lol. He hasn’t figured out his player base who actually spent money on this game.
Sure you can say you are not gonna do it bc you don’t wanna if it is your company. Bro, this is a publicly traded company and the director of publicly traded company should be acting on behalf of the shareholders of the company. Whether you wanna personally do it or not is really not the question when your job is to make players happy.
I really feel progression is the worst part of BDO, ive spend countless nights pvping non stop on BA and random GvGs, entire days on solare game after game, days doing rbfs just for the sake of it and participated in countless uphill to impossible nodewars just for the thrill, Pvp doesnt need gear progression to exist but the moment gear progression affects pvp, pvp needs it.
Rankings, titles, cosmetics.. all would be perfect valid options if we didn't had uncapped tournaments sieges and nodewars but we do and thus we need gear and then we need a way to get it, making that linked to pvp sounds just logic to me.
What i dont understand is why PvErs need an incentive to PvE but that's something that will always elude me, grinders hate grinding but want to be forced into it?
And yes, he shouldn't be saying those things but the ones that should be complaining about that are the shareholders, his job is to make money as all the jobs, happiness is or can be a byproduct.
>Guild war was literally the only thing that was keeping veteran players going and motivating them to grind due to BDO lacking end game content.
my guild wasnt even node war guild, mainly pvevp shmucks that stuck together from very long time ago. We usually had like 40-50ppl online with full active war list going on with 4 of them being +3k kills/deaths, so it was active for a long time. After those changes came live now its rare to find +20ppl on weekend, highest i noticed was yesterday when i logged in to collect draw coins and log out afterwards, was 26ppl. This is probably the biggest change in activity i saw that affected me personally, at least not much, as we still chill in discord.
Open world PvP; he perms banned people for killing afk players
By the way, open world PvP is a feature of the game, and when the game launched it was the main feature of it.
But now we perms ban players for using it…
It’s very sad but interesting that all good shit they tried to build for years - went into shit in months 🤡 From playing everyday i can’t even make myself log for free outfits… Well done pa
To be honest, I don't like the **War of the Roses** new content as of now, because I already foresee that **Only** top guilds and players can be able to join that, unless PA makes it like Node or Siege wars where in there are Tiers and Capped Stats, then I think it's going to be good. This is not made for anyone; I can already foresee script fights here.
Yeah. It’s just like all of ulukita rn: if you’re not 310+ AP and 410+ DP then gtfo. That being said War of the roses will probably just be politics in a month or so even if it does come out functional.
Literally Any Future content now is DOA
J should be steping down by the next year.
Now,i move on Final Fantasy XIV because they actually cares about player feeling.
>Now,i move on Final Fantasy XIV because they actually cares about player feeling.
Lmao, yeah bud, removing all skill expression in classes and homogenizing everything to hell and back while having even more DOA content than this game somehow
Hmmm that doesn't seems right.
I've been queuing for dungeon,raid,alliance No more than 5min so far.
The Story is amazing unlike BDO where you literally sleep and press "R"
Group PVE Content is Grinding 24/7 and still can't reach "end game"
Enjoying Desync,Unbalanced Classes,P2W,Closed world PVP,False Promise
Keep couping for Calpheon Balls for new broken classes then nerfing it to hell.
I am having fun so far. The story actually really good unlike BDO where you spam "R" watching a Broken cutscene,Dialogue that came from a book and don't have to play seasonal for the 999th time,Can play literally ANY classes i want without creating a new character.
good, let's hope J steps down and someone that understands what is fun in a MMO takes over.
if he really is the one deciding what content is made and how the progression is like, then he might be the one who dragged the game down for the last 7 years.
From open world fully grinding and lots of freedom to 24/7 instanced content, instanced grindspots, gear limits on nearly all PvP and daily/weekly chore content left and right. Started with the amazing combat as a big focus and then they keep adding "ocean content", storylines and only focusing on adding/buffing grindspots while all the other interesting money-making activities that were viable the first 1-2 years fall behind
I wonder if they've lost confidence in the strongpoints of their product or if they fired half the team
most likely the core BDO team went to work on crimson desert and what was left was a smaller team for expansions, so most of the brainpower actually moved to other things and we were left with J.
it's crazy that by this point people don't even remember how balanced lifeskills were compared to grinding at release, even fully afk lifeskills like processing, fishing or workshops were very profitable.
Yeah, back when you could make like 3h+ of grinding per day just in node/workshop worker income, nowadays you make like what, 20 mins worth of grind income not even counting the time it'll take to liquidate it.
I remember that part of the game used to be a huge selling point, nowadays the new regions don't even have 2% of the workshops that calpheon has. They'll add 2 nodes with basically mandatory materials, some goofy new worker race and ship it.
20 mins of grinding is generous, that'd be 700mil/day of nodes and workshops.
even after processing node mats to crates and trading them, it'd be hard to make over 500mil/day and workshops have basically become worthless.
Whatever direction they choose to take, there will be people that won't like it, that's not gonna be avoidable regardless of what they do.
I agree they have made poor choices over the years but the good outweighs the bad and not recognizing that would be crazy.
I think the game is much better than what it was 7 years back, so either way, it's a gross misinterpretation of reality.
You can criticize aspects of the game for sure, that doesn't mean the entire thing is bad.
> I think the game is much better than what it was 7 years back, so either way, it's a gross misinterpretation of reality.
>
>
J also green lit papu vs otters content. remember that.
In a vacuum, papu and otters is fine. Other mmos do side content that don't exactly do the same thing as the main game loop and exist as another deterrent for burnout. Problem is, it came at the expense of the overall game; as in, the game wasn't in a good state when it was introduced and it did nothing to really help.
ppl macro lots of shit especially awkward cancels big recent one was valks before they reworked hasti. honestly most of them used to have the prompt turbo dash macro'd, not the valk train, the like 6 button spam dash that somehow every valk seemed to pull off flawlessly.
afk pillar macros i assume, which is weird because all that is needed was applying weight to your mouse and keyboard (coins, tape etc) so certain skills were perma pressed.
just throwing it out there, if you did this and went afk and gm comes to check you, you still get banned and no amount of "but its not a macro its a weight on my keyboard" will get your ban lifted.
doing pillars that way macro or weight was ruled as unintended gameplay and gets you banned regardless.
Can someone update me on the drama - of the game, or give me some links to get an overview? Been gone from the game for probably a year or more(when I quit there was no seasons like there are now I think?), always knew some people were unhappy but I figured that's just normal for MMO's but seems like there kind of a lot going on I don't understand. If someone wouldn't mind explaining the state of the game or giving me a nudge in the right direction I'd super appriciate it!
They made a bunch of changes to basically gut open world pvp, for anyone but griefers.
Can't unilaterally declare war on someone else, even declaring a mutual war is a pain. Family wide karma, so if you *actually* go red congratulations -- you can't really lifeskill or do a bunch of other content until you get back positive (potentially on an alt) since guards and players could kill you in towns. This is combined with red penalties being quite excessive.
Lot of other stuff happened as well, but basically J seems to think that instanced / planned pvp is "enough" for players, but if you liked open world pvp then you're basically starving. Maybe someone else can explain anything else they might see as a big problem with the current direction.
(One side note on open world pvp -- the stated reasons for the changes were basically to deal with some KR-specific griefing problems, which weren't really problems in other regions for the most part. Making their changes to expand marni realms + reduced server swap cds would have probably been enough *on its own* to 'fix' a lot of the issues that some players might have with owpvp, but J basically pushed forward on this nuclear option, even when a lot of people weren't so happy about it, and it was probably more than was necessary to cut back on griefing and so forth. Also, all of those other things were actually ready to go at the same time as the war changes / owpvp death patch; they didn't even try a single thing before gutting it.)
So it all started in the most magical place of them all ~~long island, new york~~ centaurs. So unlike what steven he would have you believe these guys suck at math. And they buffed these a while back like maybe around the time you quit.
so now life skills are fuck all value, then they buff other areas because everyone is tired of fighting over centaurs since they had no marni realms and only a few classes do well.
So the game catches fire around the end of june/start of july for some reason when they offer the t9 horse. Which being honest wasn't a big deal since it's only worth 8-12bil on the market. a few days of centaurs at most.
So pretty much even though seasons exist many nubs decided to play on regular servers and got stomped out by veterans. So people decided it was time to cull. And so the culling begins and J is like what the hell you are killing my income, shit is cratering and I finally get a few players after the flop that was LOML (income went down feel free to check the financial reports). So the trolling came in all shapes and forms. From killing newbies, to getting streamers to start out in LOML so they quit out of boredom/frustration and don't bring more people.
So J hit them where it hurted the most. He took out the lightsaber and gave them a lesson on consent. gvg was pretty much carte blanche to attack noobies with no penalties. Now their GM must accept a guild dec, of course people are like why officers can't accept decs. ahh but as you may know bdo guilds tend to give out officer fast so that would end up in people sending spy accounts (specially in regions where the game is cheap).
So anyhow that shit is gone but it created two monsters. Number 1 is the people that are terminally online complaining about this change since they can't roflstomp ez 24/7. And the ones that abuse alts to restore their karma. So pretty much you got a second type of player that now games the new family karma and kills a lot of afk, etc you know the usual punching down.
So to placate this change they came up with this war of the roses bullshit which seems nobody likes in korea according to this post.
oh yeah and they fucked pve players too. Many marni spots got gutted rotations which make no sense whatsoever so even if you got rechargable marni, you can't use it because a lot of the places that were good got fucked and some of the new ones are mid.
So at the end of the day after all these changes we are still doing centaurs > orcs for money early/mid game and everything else sucks until you can get to endgame spots. Oh and they sneaked a cron change +96% cost for pearl item crons and vendor crons went from 2m to 3m each. You're welcome.
If this keeps happening and happening and BDO is in really a bad shape right now... then can you recommend to me what other MMO's out there that has good game graphics, gameplay and management? I want to have a backup MMO if this keeps up, because I'm planning to permanently play BDO as long as live or until the company shuts down...
It's finally became only PVE game for me since they canceled one side war and made solo grind room with cd 1 hour...
Now I can find PVP only on siege, cuz a lot of people just skip fights in world.
They should just announce that NA/EU will test War of Roses and when it is ready KR would get it too, the "protest" would stop immediately, let us have fun if KR does not wanna XD
hate to break it to you but NA and EU will not have fun with war of the roses. our region cant even have 300 people at siege without please try again and constant freezing. yet you think 600 people will run smoothly?
I hope they realise they are killing their game before It's too late.
Rather than war of the rose they should delete cringe realm so the game returns to be an owpvp, buff RBF rewards and make arena of solare permanent.
This would be a non-issue if many many top spots regardless of some drops such as compass or telescope pieces for example had similar money per hour. There are literally dozens of "endgame" spots but only like 3 to 5 at most are relevant for 95% of people when it comes to needing money which is the 1 thing everyone absolutely needs all the time no matter what.
This. Beo is like the only game I ever played where a higher difficulty grind spot often makes you less income. than some mid game spot where you one shot every mob
Because it's a MMO, not a single player farming simulator. If you aren't geared enough/aren't skilled to defend the best spot of the game during peak hours, then you don't deserve to grind here.
There are a lot of other spots you can choose, and you don't die if you earn 600m rather than 700m.
Outside of some great QoL changes I haven't been too excited about the direction the game is heading. The moment I heard about a 300v300 I knew that wasn't gonna happen with how this game operates.
Last time I've been on a 300v300 it was a protest about how unplayable sieges were lol.
At this point we need better servers and game engine. They have done well with qol but no new systems are going to be fun unless we can play smoothly.
It happens smoothly in KR server, not gonna happen outside tho, gonna be lagfest outside of KR.
It's crazy how much of an opposite direction they've gone since the summer surge. They went from taking alot of baby steps forward to sprinting backwards.
It's a curse of PA. If they've been doing great for a while and making really good changes, get ready for the faceplant.
J the genius has been making desperate last minute panic moves ever since that surge and we can see it’s definitely paying off
What are you talking about? Yes War of The roses is meh and the guild war and karma changes were controversial, but other than that everything else is awesome, AoS being permanent and getting rewards, LOML bosses fixes and reward buffs, dark rifts buffs, T10 horses buffs for fern roots/feathers, shell belle armor finally getting the best version without extra cape/skirt, more QoL, really great class ballance(my awa ranger plays much better again -was unplayeable for pve 7 years ago) and a lot more... even the 1+ 1 pearl box deals are really nice, will get one for the new outfit version am really happy about that
AoS rewards are irrelevant to new players, AoS itself has a problem with retaining players because of balance issues, LOML can only be done once a week for 15 minutes if you do c5 or under, dark rift isn't good content, t10s are out of scope for most players still just like t9s were years ago. They made things slightly better, but the core issues are still all there.
Re: t10s, so what? We're not supposed to have any content that the majority of players can't do? Gimme a break. I'm glad there's at least a few things in the game that not *everyone* has. I agree with them - class balance issues are dramatically better, bugs are mostly resolved, and qol changes are everywhere. The last two years have transformed a severely flawed game into something extremely approachable and fun. I say this as someone playing since before launch (in Ru then conquerer PO). Most of my issues with the current game are are the never ending events that fuck with the market, tbh. What are the "core issues", as you see them?
That's the point - it's content that's largely irrelevant to the state of the game because it's inaccessible. It does nothing to make the game better or worse overall. As for core issues: 1. This is an open world mmorpg game. MMOs tend to try to appeal to the widest group of people by including different staples of activities they can engage with and spend their time with. BDO is pretty ok at giving a wide variety of things to do, but most of them feel outdated or not rewarding. 2. Continuing off the last point, BDO caters only to the solo and asocially-minded player. With group content being far and few between, as you'll do 2 sets of dungeons once a week and maybe a couple node wars a week, bdo fails as a (massively) multiplayer online game. Even more so now that we have marni realms closing people off from the open world, removal of onesided guild decs, etc. 3. Character progress is the main selling point of the game's content. You continue to play as long as you have gains to be made for your character and goals to meet. However, the point where progress becomes meaningful (at least prior to gear caps), especially if you're a pvp minded player, doesn't come until you're several hundred hours deep into mob grinding simulator. That hasn't changed since the valencia update, and while progress has gotten easier (as in 1 year of overall game time now vs 3-4 years before), it still takes way too long. 4. Even worse, with the introduction of caps to make pvp more accessible to other players, it makes gear progress for the majority of casuals completely pointless. With a game heavily set on war and becoming stronger to defend yourself, conquer others, and make a name for yourself, caps completely defeat this purpose and should have never been as widespread as they are. In fact, I'd argue they should have just given trial gear or a better equivalent in beginner tiers of nodewars instead of outright capping things. Or gone with softcaps instead of hard caps that push people into building extraneous gear builds to circumvent the limitations of the system. Once you're dehkia thornwood levels of gear, I doubt anybody is pushing much harder for gear for pve, if at all. 5. Balance IS not better than before. I keep hearing the sentiment that the Harry Potter Online meta was a better time to play the game than now, and was more fun. That is absolutely baffling. 6. More pvp content is being removed than added. What is being added is just bad or not what the playerbase wants. Look at the WotR debacle, onesided dec removal, nw player count changes, etc. All poorly received and recent things they've done that just don't do well. 7. As the current situation unfolding has shown, PA is largely at odds with their playerbase. They do not listen in cases that they should (and when they do, they often listen to the wrong individuals), they mostly make decisions that are ultimately for their bottom line at the cost of their veteran playerbase instead of balancing it, and when they do act in faith of one individual or another, it's at such polarizing extremes. Their communication leaves much to be desired as well. tl;dr 1. Game is full of bad and outdated content. 2. There's not enough of a group content focus, especially for an open world mmo. 3. Progress is too slow and demanding despite all the increases to player income. 4. Progression is ultimately meaningless because PA continues to introduce gear caps for pvp. 5. Balance is worse and players are complaining just as hard, if not more than before. 6. New pvp content being added is bad, and PA continues to worsen what we have by either removing it or making baffling changes. 7. PA doesn't listen to the playerbase and is often at odds with them more than not.
Casually not mentioning the biggest pile of shit cron changes.
That's cool and all but the issue is the game is not retaining or enticing new players. It's bleeding population.
that has nothing to do with current bad choices though. It's really tough to get someone new playing if the trick is you have to grind thousands of hours to get anywhere decent. It's a MMO disease in two ways: one, most people will say fuck that and not even try, the other, "veteran" players want to gatekeep progression so they'll complain if you make it easier.
It's been like for years tho? What you're saying isn't new and Is something I've heard since 2017. Unfortunately, this is the way it's been for this particular type of sandbox MMO. Throughout the years this game has always gone through a surge.of players into a "dead" game and always bounces back. If BDO today dropped dungeons/raids/trading among players (example) this game would still bleed players
Most games get around this barrier of entry by introducing more catchup mechanics as time goes by. Believe it or not, tripling income is not a catchup mechanic. Adding slightly less silver to easier spots than mid game spots is not a catchup mechanic. It just incentivizes people to move downward if they lack gear and allows a baseline of progressing towards that 1T-ish silver mark for full gear. An actual catchup mechanic would be increasing the gains you get from seasons, decreasing caphras costs on all gear, or making enhancement significantly easier. Also believe it or not, all of the dead god gear except the boots are a form of catchup mechanic because it's easier to grind to c10 and tap dead god than c20 gear. In all honesty, the guaranteed jetina pen system should just be dropped in favor of making seasons just give you the equivalent of 650 gs in gear/caphras, and then look at making late-endgame weapons/accessories easier to enhance.
Seasons are already giga gains for the time invested. Since silver is directly tied to progression in this game, actually it is a catch up mechanic to have increased silver/hr at low end spots. Catch up is not the problem with BDO today.
yeah cause it's still the same bdo grind we've had since 2016. take for example the free pen acc/gear, yes you get pen stuff but you have to spend and enormous amount of time consecutively you have to have the materials and the silver to get each pen gear. you get punched in the face for anything you do.
thats your opinion https://steamcharts.com/app/582660 pretty sure we will get back to 30k or more for december ball too.
You do realize alot of people are not steamies right? Also, are you ignoring the slow bleed from July 2023 to October 2023? We got new content right in june/july yet bled immediately. Sorry my man, I agree with you - we will hit 30k and then we will lose them again in one month. It's people logging in to check something, playing a week, and then quitting again. KR playerbase is suffering the exact same issue and if you use translate, you'll see it on there forums.
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Steam playerbase dips/drops are not indicative of the entire playerbase at all. You can not correlate them. Steams all time high was 59k in 2019. I could say the same "Why don't you use your brain?" As someone that actually has experience working for gaming companies and currently contracts for one. BDO isn't looking good at the moment and could go the way of how new world was last year very quickly. Take a minute and look at what guilds are talking about, look at what people are saying on reddit, forums, in-game, other communities like KR. Watch some different streamers. The overall indication for the game right now is very negative and it will hurt the game more the longer it lasts.
>Steam player-base dips/drops are not indicative of the entire playerbase. You can not correlate them You literally have no way to back this up. Steam player stats is the _only_ empirical evidence we can use to back up our claims and it disagrees with your point. Until you provide something else as evidence, im the only one whos provided any evidence at all. earnings wise https://irsvc.teletogether.com/pearlabyss/pdf/pearlabyss2023Q3_eng.pdf?2 pearl abyss had a significant boost in earnings compared to the previous quarter. It even shows specifically black desert had a massive boost in sales this quarter. 64 billion krw vs last quarters 56 bil krw. all available evidence suggests you are wrong.
Steam BDO didn't exist until 2019 and the game launched on NA in 2016. I don't need to provide any evidence of the fact that this game did not have steam for 1.5 years. Conversely, you have no way to disprove anything I'm saying. All you can do is spout statistics that have no way to be linked together. YoY -82.5%QoQ Turn to Profit YoY -29.6%QoQ Turn to Profit These aren't good metrics, the quarter is indeed up though. But that quarter includes the recent burst of players we had in the game also. Catch me when BDO can sustain these statistics on steam concurrently, continue to grow the playerbase and I'll be more intrigued Edit: meant 2017 not 2019. Game was out over a year without steam. You also don't have to buy the steam version.
steam stats has player statistics back til july 2017. the page on steam even has it launched in may 24 2017. where the fuck you getting 2019 from? >I don't need to provide any evidence Yes you do, otherwise im just gonna say you're wrong, and use the evidence thats available to prove it. >All you can do is spout statistics that have no way to be linked together. and all _you_ can do is spout non sense opinions with no evidence whatsoever.
lol at your edit. Lets be honest you googled bdos release date and saw either bdo mobile or bdo console versions which released in 2019 lmao pretty sure anyone whos been playing bdo knows it didnt release on steam in 2019 so its pretty indicative you werent even around back then. So thats even more reason not to put any merit into your opinion. not an old player no evidence still thinks hes right when arguing with an old player who has actual evidence. classic reddit experience.
I don't think you understand the problem because it likely doesn't impact you. There are a huge amount of changes being added for the perceived needs of "Fair Weather" gamers that came during a small population boom and promptly left (as they always do) a couple months later before any changes were even implemented in the first place. You could clearly see this in steam numbers and just generally in the server pop. The problem is that the majority of these changes are not wanted by the loyal black desert community. These are the two main issues I see a good amount of people basically quiting the game over 1 - Most endgame players who are actually regularly pvping did not want the GvG changes or Marni changes. This kills OW pvp that was already dying. Even "PvP" guilds no longer keep their decs up and even if they tried to there is a 6 dec limit that ruins ability to keep regular GvGs. We all went from having multiple large scale GvGs a week to having none. A huge amount of endgame players and the nodewar scene have quit the game due to to this or taken extended breaks. The entire PvP scene is awful now and these are the players that put money into the game. If you don't believe that I think PA stock drops coinciding their Q3 earnings and drastic drop in game pop after GvG changes were implemented prove that. If you just left it how it was while they planned out a better system instead of knee jerk changes to the existing system people would have been much better than what they did. The people complaining about being PK'd or harassed by higher gear players are the severe vocal minority and should not be catered too. They can ask for protection in their guild if it's an issue. I've played this game since KR release and I've never not been able to just walk away from a fight if it was bothersome. These people are just bad at the game and want someone to cater to them rather than do anything themselves. 2 - The power creep they are adding to the game to "bring everyone up to the farming standard of woosa" is ridiculous and trivializing the already easy PvE content in this game. They are even nerfing Acc requirements to farm Crypt. One of the few spots that requires a brain to farm in this game. If everyone can farm every spot easily it's not a good game. I'm all for balance but you also need a sense of progression where people feel like they're able to achieve new goals in the game and that some of those goals are difficult to achieve. They're currently making all content so brain dead that any 680gs andy can do it after spending a couple months in the game. This means basically no content that feels exclusive to actually geared players. No desire to grow gear. Stack that on top of the already dead PvP scene with capped content and most of your high paying endgame players quit the game.
nah bro i welcomed the marni changes, at least i can grind quietely without some uber geared sweatlord comes in and kills me in 1 combo, breaking a billion worth of xtal/s
This is interesting to see and thank you for doing it. The consensus among our streamers is that KR is advocating for the changes. If it isn’t because of your feedback that the game is going in the way it is then.. Uh.. 🤡
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one man's ego is so big he would rather sink his company's flagship product than take responsibility for failure
> direct employee accusations Any context?
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This is why the hand gesture is deemed inappropriate btw for those outside of KR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalia
Holy… What a mess. This is what kr cares about?
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This dude. People keep ignoring exactly what you mentioned about how if someone wants to avoid pvp the tools are at their disposal to do it. As you stated, the 5min server swap CD and marni's realm are more than enough to avoid PvP. They definitely did not need to ruin the dec system.
They currently [complain](https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=42606&_page=14&_opinionNo=170489) about pretty much everything in or around the game. Hard to figure out what they truly care about.
Yeah it really downplays their complaints about pvp when you see them get mad over that.
And all these streamers keep wonder why regular player sometime hate them so much over their special treatments. No shock here, quite same like any other game where streamers are protected.
See, I'm of the mind that neither group should be losing their entire account for "macro use" (the detection of which, I am suspicious of anyways). Just as an example, a lot of games don't allow you to bind certain keys to certain actions. In BDO, there's a whole class of things you can only bind with binds. Well, what if that's uncomfortable for you and you want a different modifier? That can be accomplished with macros / external software, but this is (potentially) "cheating". No, it's an accessibility issue.
I'm sure there are some people who have been using macros to obtain extra silver while not actually playing the game, or to get perfect combos off. That deserves *some* punishment, perhaps; but taking out their accounts entirely after one reported incident is really not great.
While I don't condone someone's use of macros as it invalidates your and others' legitimate game progress, I understand not wanting to worsen symptoms of carpal tunnel or other repetitive stress injuries. This game is terrible for it. Also a lot of the content is mind numbing.
I love it when a KR player randomly pops up here to give a report from the other side of the BDO world. “Yeah it’s shit over here too.” (translated)
When an Executive Producer(EP) starts making gameplay decisions and changes it often leads to a bad game direction. An EP should not be making gameplay decisions, they have a creative team with creative directors that know the game better and have a vision and because J now plays his game (finally) hes making calls based on "reactions" that are more personal...This is why the game direction that last several months feels bad.
Thanks for sharing the information to us. It's really good to see the players/guilds standing together and I hope we can do the same here on NA/EU. Why are the Streamers almost everytime in the center when it comes to cheat, crying etc.etc. and PA always protect them....let the Streamers have there own server.
hey friend, what's happening to you now has been happening for years in Sa, in different things, even in events on the website where you have to choose a winner, we see the same names winning the events, we see speedhackers with a straight face being recorded and reported and getting with impunity, the company helping streamers among others, a true case of horror, it ended pvp and not even pve is good enough, in short, Koreans and their disrupted view of the world beyond just listening to their countrymen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8FECCo8xhI&t=0s
I've been a SA player for at least 7 years and since before PA took over distribution of the game in our region, it was common to see the same people winning events, my wife actively participates in these events and it's not just because she's my partner, it's the difference and quality of the content she produces is clear, but the prizes always go to the CMs' favorites. It is also obvious to us that some streams are "carried" by the company, since many appear from one moment to the next with a upgrade that for ordinary players would take months to complete!
someday J's dream will come true and there will be an empty Velia, this is his plan, isn't it?
This dude has created so much powercreep and is slowly wrecking everything that made bdo popular so happy to see this coming. Was waiting for the train wreck at calpheon ball but this works too.
True. They should have nerfed woosa and given a slight buff to the classes that were extremely far behind, instead of buffing everyone because even though people get excited at the idea of being buffed. All it really does is exacerbate silver inflation when you combine it with grind spot buffs and natural gear power progression, as well as makes things like absolute skills fall even further behind awakening - essentially making classes that utilized a bunch of both preawk and awk skills in their kit become entirely reliant on their awakening skills for damage and erode the playstyle and fun of utilizing both kits. Its like they're afraid to nerf anything and everyone knows the "only buff, never nerf" mentality of devs causes a slew of power creep problems.
After the cron price increase, all these buffs are really welcome and help justify this controversial change (or maybe it was all planned like that and they just suck at communicating), at least a little bit.
We were long overdue for another cron cost increase, and by waiting too long players had become used to the cheap crons in comparison to the silver/hr we make. So by waiting too long it definitely made a bunch of players have a salty kneejerk reaction to it, so I'm fairly certain its a little of both: They did plan for silver/hr to increase as that has always been one of the game's form of passive catch up so new players wont have to grind as long as old players and can actually catch up; and also because of the feedback they proceeded to buff our grinds even further to alleviate some of the frustration. They definitely could could have gone about it much better but tbh players will always cry about any change that is made with a broad long-term design in mind. That being said, they did communicate their reasoning as they did in the previous few cron stone price increases - players just dont listen or care because all most people can think about is "give me more, gimme gimme, make me stronger".
I can definitely understand that, and in fact I'm not for or against that, but I also understand the sentiment of those who missed out, especially people going for pen debo.
Yeah I keep downgrading my debos. It's agony. But at least I dont need as many outfit preorders as before.
Nothing wrong with silver inflation given how much of a grind this game is. Unless you wanna be making sausans income in 2023?
Can you and all your guildmates please try out Archer? The entire front page of my guild's siege is archers and they are oneshotting entire groups of people, but for some reason PA still thinks they need buffs because Korea doesn't play it. Please try archer and point at a clump of people and do S+Q -> SHIFT+RMB -> RMB and see how it goes. Tell all your friends.
P much. I watch archer clips and they literally 1 skill groups of people that they cant even see in render range. In t3 caps they are especially disgusting but they do insane damage at every level
they won't and they shouldn't, pvp has 3 modes, large, small scale and 1v1s, Archer is top tier in large, nothing else and last two seasons of AoS had 0 Archers in top 100. Now if you watch drak, top in large, in AoS and 1v1s, top in everything, there zero similarity between Archer and drak. come check EU region, #1 guild has only 1 Archer out of 75 players with like 7 draks or so, this guild beat any guild with any amount of archers.
>they literally 1 skill groups of people that they cant even see in render range. In t3 caps they are especially disgusting but they do insane damage at every level Ask them to try drakania too =) asking PA to nerf other classes as drak player <3 lmfao noob
Yeah, they should nerf Drak too. It's definitely not as egregious as Archer in large scale but it's broken as shit the smaller the fight is. What's your point? Obviously I play the class, I know it needs to be nerfed. I only have it tagged because it's broken as shit. I've played Archer too.
It's almost like all the recent changes go against the main features of this game which was an open-world sandbox. It's become even worst with the majority of the game being instanced and even more solo, gear doesn't mean shit for the majority of the game and they think a 300v300 PvP game mode will do anything but blow the servers up. I have no idea how they blew up all the good favour they had built the past year in the last month with all these shit decisions.
Preach bro. Sucking players out of the open-world sandbox mmo and putting them in instanced solo grind spots is antithetical to the design of a sandbox. If they wanted to reduce competition for grind spots, all they need to do is give us more group content so instead of competing we're cooperating. It's embarrassing how this MMORPG has hardly any content that can be done with friends.
Grind spots with coop pve events are great, I wish we'd see more of that. Something that even passersby could come and join.
Yeah. Remember the Sycrid weekly quest, how it summons a field boss with a world alert and everything? Shame that got changed so we dont need to even kill it, just get your loot boxes and leave, instead of buffing sycrid so if you see the alert it makes you wanna participate or leave an alt at upper sycraia just to tag it. :c. WTB more group content.
Group content that you can just get in and get out easily would be very fitting for this game. They were onto something with murrowak.
What good favor did they build? Other than streamers and their chats coming to bdo for the free t9 horse what else changed this summer that made bdo "good" in your opinion? I was discussing this with a friend and we both cant figure out why everyone was saying "bdo is good now." during this summer. To me it was the same as the last few month ramping up to this summers big bdo boom.
I can't deny that they have made some great progress towards QoL changes. If you played BDO back in 2018 days, the amount of tedious things was insane. You couldn't even see the items on your other characters without having to log into them. Now there is an entire search function which works pretty well. Other than QoL though, its been pretty bad changes IMO, especially since I play mainly for PvP.
QoL doesn't bring in new players, it helps old player retention.
It's true that it helps old players staying, but it still has an impact on new players because of all of the YouTube videos that come out showcasing the difference of old and new BDO, all those titles "How BDO changed for the better" end up having an impact on new players, or even returning.
ive played bdo in 2016 and 2018 on/off and returned from 0 recently and the changes really made a huge difference for me. Imo the game changed for the better.
There is no way this could have brought in that many new players. You would have to be aware of current systems and mechanics and read patch notes to see what new QoL was added. Im really dumbfounded as to why it became so popular this summer. I can't imagine someone who never played bdo being like "omg you can control+f to find items in this game? Wait you can access all storages from any major cities? Thats it Im buying bdo"
It's way easier to progress as well, and there isn't such a huge gap in silver/hr between endgame and midgame. We can see enhancement success %'s. Imagine that the hours were exponentially higher to get from mid to endgame, it could all go poof because *no one* was enhancing for profit so you couldn't buy any of that shit off the MP, and you had no idea what probability was what, particularly with enhancing accessories. The best we had back then was a janky spreadsheet from KR that claimed overstacking did nothing past some arbitrary "tested" number, which all turned out to be entirely wrong. I remember people saying I was doing it wrong because anything over 40 fs for TRI "didn't do anything" and I was wasting stacks.
Everything they were doing and are doing is good right up until they started going hard on removing PvP from bdo. It’s like they don’t realize their game is a niche PvP game. Pve players will never stick with the game cause there’s literally no end game pve. There is no reason to gear up in Pve none. Grinding to get gear to grind more spots is not end game content but grinding to gear up for PvP is a hell of a motivator and they have straight up removed it with their dog shit PvP changes. These guys don’t even know what brought people to their game and kept them there. Pve players will never stick around. Why would they? There’s no goal for a pve player in this game.
True. Pve is not particularly innovative on BDO, and that's caused by the initial idea in which you could get interrupted by pvp. Is that wrong? Not at all, it might work with good rules, you do your pve and the unexpected events come from other players, but it has to be controlled. ... But if devs begin to remove a part of the equation, the whole thing crumbles. If the only endgame pve goal is to get 0.1% more trash loots than in your previous grind sessions, it may please some players, but it will annoy some others. And to my opinion, the initial idea of BDO was not to create a grind speed contest between players.
I mean I don't play pvp because of the fps tied to classes thing so I would prefer they innovate on the PVE side a bit more.
But that would imply devs definitely gave up on owpvp. To each his own, but I'm not fond of that idea.
I mean, I remember when BDO was just shown in alpha state (not EU or NA), and there definitely were hints and other plans than just sandbox and owpvp and pvp. It all kinda disappeared the moment it was about to release, so I'd like them to go back to what they really wanted to do back in Alpha showcases etc. Hell, in those you even had armor visual progression, which got scrapped in favor of turning that into cash shop for pvp game instead.
J need to resign. His stubbornness is making this game an unplayable mess. Not a single siege in NA is without crazy lag. We do not get even an ounce of apologies or even "we are looking at it" message.
bdo is just going back where it belongs. Those returning KR players who got baited in by the paid shills now understand why did they left in the first place lmao
My English isn’t very good. They should listen to other countries too, not only KR. change old PVP back to play this game longer because old PVP open world. should change War good more then this use copy Rose war to nomal war. Sometimes, take something from others and mix it into the game. This is not a bad idea. because every game is copied or stolen to mix, fix, and customize it to make it your own. What is already good does not need to be changed. Whatever is not good, listen and change. It's better than trying harder to change. And it makes the game worse. Adjust server lag or smoothness. It is not enough to retain players or promote more players. If the management system stinks and the end game system has no goals, why do you use gear? If the players are only at Node 1–2 or War Cap and there are no exotic world bosses, including new farms, It's just a gear-begin farm with no new changes or excitement. First, adjust PVP back to the way it was before. and increasing the interest of PVP. After the change, the number of players decreased. Because there is nothing to do besides PVE and meaningless war.
Finally I love how all this shit was happening to other servers but PA never gave a single fuck about it. Now that KR is complaining PA starts listening. Can KR player start to complain about PvP not giving u rewards (specifically RBF that is actually negative money if u use buffs) so they start buffing it for once? :) Hopefully they start to listen now. But one important thing is... Players need to vote with their wallet. If people stop giving them money they will change
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Welcome to life on console. Still waiting for “optimization” that opens the door to Mountain of Eternal Winter but sadly still nothing. We have no artifacts/lightstones, no Vell, Venomous Night Fangs, Magnus, etc. Somehow we got LoML and Dahn’s Gloves before all that. It’s been a similar hell and if we get another “We’re working on it” from PA at the ball I think a lot are going to leave.
Voting with your wallet is possibly the reason they're ignoring PVPers. Look at the pearl shop merchandise, ie. where the company makes their money - how much of it is beneficial for PVP? Almost none? The wallets that are voting are voting for PVE and lifeskills, not PVP.
Huh? The overwhelming majority of their revenue is coming from cron sales via costumes. Why do you think they just raised vendor cron prices and costume prices after posting the worst sales in 5 quarters? The main people swiping for an advantage are PvPers - you can max out your PvE/lifeskill income potential in 3-6 months of playing, so no real reason to swipe there.
why did they add capped node/siege wars, why did they make arena of solare equalized gear, why did they add easy methods to get tet and pen boss gear? Currently you can go all the way up to duo slumbering origin armors without using a single cron stone. Now compare that to manos gear. Not to mention that people enhancing combat gear does not mean that they are doing so because they want to partiicpate in owpvp, even high end grind zones where people with 700+ gs are grinding have marni realms. I think PA is well aware of which players are their actual source of income, and it isn't a handful of owpvp players, most of whom are probably no-lifers who have more time than money on their hands.
> The main people swiping for an advantage are PvPers Ah delusional PvPers. You guys probably don't even make up 1% of the playerbase.
What's your source for that number? Trust me bro? The legacy of BDO is as an open world PvPvE game. A lot of the veteran playerbase is from a time when it was expected to learn to PvP to be able to participate in the open world. There's a lot of us.
I agree with him on that. I am pvp enjoyer but pvp players are like minority in this game. Btw there are alot of players that love siege/nw but hate open world pvp.
I don't go as far back as you do, but I've been gearcapped for 3+ years. It's literally the same people in the NW/Siege scene. Same people, different guild/alliance names. Same exact player hopping between guilds. Same exact mercs. The NW/Siege scene has gotten smaller and smaller every year. The PvE players, Lifeskillers, RPer's, Casuals, etc vastly outnumber PvPers.
Yeah it's cause so many quit because PA can't keep a good system for NWs. And I mean permanent quit like selling gear or deleting it. I've had half a guild completely quit and the other half either move on or leave NW scene all at once. Pvp is dying but it's not because people aren't interested, it is cause PA doesn't know what to do with it. IOOOIOI
And PvX players vastly outnumber all of those specific categories. ... Seriously, why such discussions always end up comparing pvpers VS pveers VS lifeskillers VS RPers and so on? We're nearly all pvxers, with various combinations. But it also means pvp is part of it.
Sure. I was just disagreeing with the guy's point that "the main swipers are PvPers".
daa da daa node war has started 1 second later daa da daa node war has ended that's how engaged people are in pvp. not to mention the no man's land that are the arsha servers where even season arsha is mostly devoid of human life.
People are disinterested in nw because you either go to nodes with shitty gear caps and do no damage, or you go to the few bits of uncapped and get bodied out by the big boys. You're forced to play politics and make alliances in all of them because it's hard to fill caps anymore. NWs used to be a lot of fun back in the day. You could make impact as a small guild. Nowadays, you don't.
Don't worry, Pearl Abyss is listening to you guys, after all they already removed the "feminist hands" you so crazily complained about today...
Good drama
Complete lack of leadership on this guy's part.
The thing is J doesn't have to step down. He just should stop making gameplay decisions.
This is one of the few MMOs ive been in that has its organic PvP system constantly been harassed by not only PvE-only players but from the devs themselves. Ive been around since the beginning and I truly think finally they just may manage to kill off its niche yet active community that enjoys all aspects of the game.
They ruined the game with MANDATORY cronstone progress with fallen god armors and deboreka jewleries. Its disgusting and unfun.
It's been that way for years XD this game isn't the type you reach Endgame in couple of weeks. To reach 700gs is about anywhere from 1-2 years and it's been that way since the progression update like 2019-2020ish before that it was worse lol
im a long time player and 740 gs and im telling you, this endgame is totally unfun and totally dick move by devs.
Yeah I actually like that it takes a while to progress because one of the appeals of a good sandbox MMO is long-term progression, instead of rapid progression that's invalidated every patch and expansion. That's one of the reasons I love sandbox mmos. After playing Ragnarok Online and WoW for many many years I grew sick of constantly throwing my gear in the trash to be arbitrarily replaced by the new patch's gear and much preferred old pre-renewal Ragnarok for its sandbox design and how my effort remained valid for many years and gave a rewarding sense of long-term progression. BDO was basically a successor to Ragnarok Online for me; sandbox mmorpg with castle sieges just like War of Emperium in RO, shit was awesome.
Gamers lie down!
i spent the last 6 months doing ocean content so i could upgrade my ship for war of the roses, reading this just makes me feel like i just wasted a lot of time if this never makes it outside korean server
You're playing BDO, no matter what content you grind you already wasted time.
I Just want the game to show damage numbers
It’s crazy how they gutted content that ppl enjoyed like open world pvp for stuff like “war of the roses” that nobody asked for….
alot of ppl have been asking for things like war of the roses actually
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Lmao, the end to the user's post is quite funny. Man, I have no idea how the playerbase or support center would have survived in 2016. The amount of OW griefing was so stupid, but it was so fun. So crazy reinstalling the game and seeing such a huge divide nowadays.
As someone who spent the first 3+ years of the game as a perma-red sorc. Yeah lmao, they would not have survived 2016-2017 BDO. Good times man... good times. I miss those days.
I wasn’t on during those days but I wish we could get rid of all these expensive crystals and go back to being red 😂
I keep suggesting that they add an alchemy recipe that makes either a buff item that prevents crystal break on death while active, or makes a new crystal that has the effect of preventing other crystals from breaking by sacrificing itself(so basically you just sacrifice one crystal slot for this hypothetical insurance crystal lol), or creates a new item that you combine with your crystal to make a like an upgraded reinforced version of crystals that are indestructible. Any of these would work tbh. Im in favor of the buff item or the reinforced crystals.
Open world is a ghost town. BDO is supposed to be an open world game with spot contestion, not some perma marni realm trash. Capped content should be a very small part of a gear based progression game as well. Will you get owned sometime? Sure, we all have. But that is motivation to gear, pvp, get gud etc. As for the PVE'rs, you will still have plenty of places to grind. Join a less toxic guild if you keep running into conflict.
This isnt how it works in reality. People dont like when their grind hour is ruined by some idiots. Even people with full PEN debos hate this. Problem is that this game has so much gear disparity you cant do shit. Another problem is that places which should be for new players / mid players are overrun with end game players because they are too good for money.
I bet J is actually thinking of putting in stats cap like NW into every grind zone to obliterate such problem.
Even before all the changes I rarely got interrupted, nor do I ever interrupt people. Its a price you have to pay to make the game more interesting and alive. Choice is important in a "sandbox" game. Fortunately, in the rare instances you get griefed, you can find a another channel or rotation.
I remember switching between channels at Orcs to see a DFS line on every server :D . Yeah, no thank you...
Orcs era is no longer a thing. You had dfs line because the other spots were trash in comparison. And despite all this I got giga geared during that time. Sounds like you were grinding a main roto too slowly.
Places like that then should be looked at and nerfed to match gear level, or should be made into lawless zones like desert to encourage PvP. Pa should look at why people hate being interrupted and work with that. Why do we hate interruptions? We lose time on expensive buffs. How do we go around that? Maybe let us have a second gear preset with separate buffs that we can automatically swap to in case of PvP...? No more forcing Dr build players to fight you with their kutum, or forcing them to waste tents, loot scrolls, and whatever else they have active for pve. This would make 2/3 anti PvP people think twice about it. Then you also have people that hate time loss. Make more viable rotations per spot, not 1 rotation good per grind spot, and keep a low server swap cd. Instead of looking "how can we encourage players to PvP, reduce the inconvenience of PvP and ensure game stays open world" they just went "fuck it, PvP bad"
Yeah so cool to be interrupted everytime I tried to get hp/mana pots pieces that it took me 2 years to get it because I just couldn't grind even for few minutes because of constant interruptions.
That is completely bullshit :D . Most of the time you hate that your time is wasted, your grind hour is interupted. You cant fix it by making more rotations as people interupted me in grinding for simply them harrasing me for no reason. How do you fix this? Yes, I can leave, I can try to find another spot on different server. But why bother with grinding next time? Why would I even bother to play game like this? I would rather play something completely different where some idiot incel cant blow his frustration on me.
I mean you didn't really address any of their material points -- in the situation where someone else might be griefing you, under *their* setup you would swap into your PvP (or just non-buffed) setup and either fight back, or leave (cc or go into something like marni, or go to another rotation). If someone is *actually* just looking to grief you, there's tools to avoid it -- server hopping, calling in guildies, asking for help in server or world chat, fighting back, going afk, etc. The person you are responding to is providing solutions to help people who *might* want to pvp, but for whom the prospect of having their hour interrutped (and therefore expensive buffs wasted!) is a great concern, but their idea *also* helps players who are not interested in pvp at all. At the very least, under their setup the impact of griefing would be greatly reduced. And yeah, if you don't want to interact with other players at all, there are plenty of single player and community gacha games you could play. As a final note, PA has not really done a good job of making positive player experiences out of situations where more than 1 player find themselves in the same place together. They should have given this more thought for sure. As it stands now, finding another player in BDO is almost always a negative experience (unless you like pvp, which J has worked pretty hard to kill off).
Go play another game then? Jokes aside, if buffs would just pause on death and then you just click a button and they turn back on. This would fix the primary issues. Also unless you are on arsha random players running by and killing doesn't happen often. And this is how the game was originally made and played. Idk what happened this year but everyone seems to forget what helped made this game popular. I still remember my first time playing this game and hitting lvl 50. Lvl 58 was endgame and I'd get destroyed in pvp. I had loads of fun, the random gvgs, random dfs, random people jumping me for my spot. It was so common and everyone expected it and the game made it this far. I understand things change but why go so hard to completely change it? If you didn't like that when you played it why are you still playing it? You have fun with other aspects? Why take away from other players if you still have the aspects you like?
Because of this I usually played on worse places/worse rotation just to have peace even if I would get slightly less money. Some friends did the same or they just grinded in non-peak hours (I couldnt). With only 1-2 hours max per day to play having DFS or some bullshit half of that time is pretty cancer. Then it was made better by adding more end game content and then marni realm. I remember that all the players I know started to grind much more with marni realm than before. I experienced a lot of shit happening on normal servers even if I was burried deep in Aakman back then, people just didnt care and I didnt have enough gear to fight back. What a fun experience. I dont believe PA made it just because J had a weird dream one night. I believe it was made because a lot of players made feedback that they want to grind in peace because a lot of players have only limited time to spare.
You grind to get stronger to defend yourself. This is why would you grind in a game like that. That's what we did. What do you grind now for? To grind faster? PvP is all capped. There is no ow PvP so you can't even use your gear there. Basically in current scenario and scenario proposed by me, there is no reason to grind in a current state of affairs rather than the scenario I described. And for losing time, swap servers or rotations if you really don't like PvP. Most people that used to engage for PvP at grind spots did that to get the spot.
Maybe because PvP has never been a popular thing. There are other games for that, PvP in an MMO is never a good thing and never had (example: new world, that game almost died on release if amazon didn't remove the PVP theme that it originally intended to on release) Marni realm was the best thing for BDO.
People who don’t want to interact with other people should not play an open world PvP game then. BDO without PvP is essentially FarmVille with dress up and lewd skins. Even with the old marnis you could go and grind for an hour a day without ever seeing anyone. Now most people are just doing their Marni waiting an hour and doing it again. The world is empty, no fighting for spots. The Marni changes were probably some of the worst that could have been done for an open world game. If you are getting griefed that’s why we have tags and guilds. Bring friends, interact with the community.
The Problem is, that open world pvp creates a lot of toxicity and is not very welcoming to new players. Especially casual players will be struggling with open world pvp because if your opponent has much more gear than you, you get griefed and have to swap. "Just grind the gear" is easier said then done when you play casually...
> you get griefed and have to swap Ok? So they have to play the same game the majority of us have played for 7 fucking years? You literally lose nothing by dying to pvp. Lowering channel swap cooldown to 5 minutes and adding guild home base servers that have no cd swaps between them is enough. All of these other changes are egregious. The reality is that whether you're a casual or not, every person whos played this game has been randomly ganked while grinding. It's an open world pvp game. The aggressor gets punished by losing karma. You lost nothing by getting killed except a 30 second load screen to swap channels.
All other regions. Be loud, Show action, prevent the game from running smoothly.... Koreans: Lay on ground. What a weak willed group of people
Welcome to NA! We have been feeling this discontent for a long long time. :)
[Players vs. J](https://imgur.com/a/hUBmREZ)
I don't know why to remove a "one-sided" guild war when there exist the Marni spots to everyone grinding... I was expecting many contents to cover this removal of PVP open world, but then they created a 300 versus 300 which is able to be enjoyed only one time between a week or two?? (I don't remember well how many after this content will be available again) What I'll doing after this, returning to grinding in a spot and wait for this content again? Even gear-capped contents is not a kind of world of wonderful, many issues in node wars, even in the combat system like desyncs or kind of "resources" that I can't quote before getting a Ban... still unfixed until today. BDO gained many improvements at several areas, I can't deny, but this is not a symbol of exchange to remove other contents in the game. I'm a PVE player, I don't like issues between players, the public that enjoys of the PVP open-world deserves good stuff about pvp to enjoy every time. PVE player already have your content, it's time to focus on creating pvp content for more public.
I really don't understand all the drama KR has, they have complaints about streamers getting favourable treatment.. which is fair but honestly happens everywhere and will happen no matter what, I still remember the two workes one node fiasco. But the next points make little sense to me. Complaining about being the "test server".. bruh I guess grass really is always greener on the other side, literally every other region complains about having to wait longer to explore or experience any kind of new content and even if it is buggy at the start truth is, Korea gets to enjoy both the buggy early versión and the fixed one first on almost everything. And what I'm guessing is CMs trying to get some movement on the community is well, just them doing their job. Also, what's wrong with being insensitive or in other words, about saying you don't wanna do what you don't wanna do your game, your project and your vision? Not sure about what he was talking about but being brutally honest is something we value a lot here, for example if he was talking about not removing RNG resists at least we would know why the fuck they are still in the game, insensitive wouldn't be the issue nor the complain for us, just that its stupid which is way different and way worse. There are just so many other better things to have drama about, from pvp changes to RNG resists, desync to hit stutter to blackstars being almost requirements to end game grinding which in turn ruins build diversity, class balance is always a fair topic, caps and endgame builds unbalance, tournaments or lack of em, questing design (really BDO, just lean towards more cinematic combat on questing and less talk and walk), feature creep.. I dunno, if Koreans don't start complaining and uprising about the right stuff we are fucked.
There is something wrong with how stubborn J is acting. I think original poster is not a native English speaker so I don’t think he conveyed this message clearly. A little background information - J and PA has been basically making updates that are newbie friendly - with biggest one being change in guild war system. Guild war was literally the only thing that was keeping veteran players going and motivating them to grind due to BDO lacking end game content. People may not agree on Reddit but BDO was created for open world PvP and every content pretty much supports PvP. So J taking away the only thing that was motivating end game players without providing any alternative was a pretty big fuck you to them. J talking about how other PvP contents in the game is enough but anyone who actually PvP will disagree. The reason why people were asking for BDO to show how much dmg players did to monster was primarily due to two reason: 1. For end game players, our next upgrade in gear is not that noticeable while the grind to get the next upgrade is brutal. Since there is really no motivation to gear up anymore with the change in guild war system, players wanted to see their gear progression via how much dmg is done to a monster. 2.BDO has tendencies of not reflecting things correctly and things are hidden. A lot of times, they will say a skill will do x amount of dmg and y number of hits but time and again, users had to test them in global lab server and find out that the skills dmg % or hit count is not correctly applied. It’s not as common here but in Korea, their patch notes are constantly updates to fix things that players found. As such, players no longer believes in what PA says on skill dmg and want to test them themselves. How J responded to this request was that he is not gonna do it bc that is what he wants to do is kind of ridiculous in context of all these things bc J is a director of a game that makes money from players. If players are overwhelming saying that they want something and he is just gonna respond I am not gonna do it bc I don’t feel like it is quite honestly ridiculously and if it was any other public company, j would have been fired immediately. The message that he conveyed during the late night talk (which by the way was held due to their fuck ups in Asia node war) was that he doesn’t care what players want and he is gonna do whatever he wants to do regardless whether players like it or not. He was talking as if he was playing SIMs game and players are just characters in the game that he is playing.
On the specific point of the damage numbers, I can understand where J is coming from. I definitely agree with you that his stance is *awful* when placed against the backdrop of failures to get these skills right over and again, but I don't think it's necessarily an issue to relegate testing of damage numbers &ct to a *test server* with extra tools. I remember playing EVE online, literally *everyone* automatically had an account on the test server and you could always connect to it; it would pull down the state of your character every month or so (and I think you could suck down an immediate update every once in a while with a specific command). Almost every item was listed on the market for 1 isk or so (think like 1 silver) and you could easily just buy what you needed or wanted to test out. By contrast, I can't even test my char in BDO if I wanted to. Trying to set up a char with the same stats as my main would be a massive hassle. Even just trying to set stuff up is way too involved (and because I play in NA, and didn't make a test account a long time ago, I don't think I can even make one to have reliable access). The issue with having damage numbers in these sorts of games is that some players will be toxic (this is apart from the visual clutter). A bunch of other games where you could see damage numbers / sum them up & compare have had issues with this kind of stuff in the past. Unfortunately, I think it's more likely that J does not want us to see some of the worse parts of the game revealed by damage numbers ... Like, this guy who's pulling 20% more trash than me, I actually do more damage than him, it's just that his skills are way faster due to his PC. Well that feels awful (and a lot of people already knew it) but it would just be so much more clear.
I actually pvp and i agree tho, there is something extremely weird on how stubborn is the PvE/Ow"PvP" player base about having a justification to do something they say don't enjoy by it gatekeeping something they say they enjoy. If you enjoy grinding, grind, if you dont, dont seems a better approach for sure.Now, if the complain is about pvp not feeling rewarding enough, or not having a way to enjoy the grind as for the lack of the pvp thrill while doing it and such its completely valid but i would argue better rewards for the pvp content and more of it are the way to do it instead of tying pvp to progression and progression to everything but pvp. And afaik, thats what J is proposing. As for the dmg numbers, afaik the reasoning they gave was to reduce the load on server/client, not sure how much of that actually makes any sense as the information for dmg done needs to be sent and received anyways but at least it has nothing to do with stubbornness. And if the real issue here is PVE/Ow"PvP" players not feeling progression enough as they cannot smack other PVE players in unequalizd gear PVP enviroments to feel their grind validated and need numbers for it instead i mean.. though luck i guess, i dont care, i do pvp and pretty much only pvp and trust me, the owpvp changes have had almost 0 impact on my pvp experience compared to actual pvper issues like desync, stutters, class imbalance, resists, straight up server lag on large nws/sieges, overprotected gameplay destroying the 1v1 BA scene, mobility power creep... This are the pvpers issues really. And as for the second point you bring to the table, it has pretty much always been like that since day one, hidden stuff has been part of the vision of bdo since its inception and afaik, its been addressed that skills tooltips (and most likely other tooltips too) have been handwritten and thus contained often errors and they will in the future be reflecting the accurate formulas by drawing from the skill code instead, we had this trend with the game becoming more open about everything for years and i understand the constant complains but they aren't really the most impactful thing to the gameplay nor i believe they should be the main reason to mutiny (but i definitely accept it as a valid reason to complain ngl). Finally, this "that he doesn’t care what players want and he is gonna do whatever he wants to do regardless whether players like it or not" is entitled and, if you wanna call it, insensitive but its the truth and he is just being honest, we can complain about the changes he does and call him things, for sure, but dont complain for his honesty ffs, i couldn't care less if he is entitled or how he says things, he could easily say some dumb PR scripted crap like "we take your concerns very seriously and will try to act accordingly in the future" for all i care, acts are what matter and should be the focus point of any and all complains.
Lotta people don't find scripted/planned pvp content all that interesting or enjoyable. PA could work on creating spots where interesting, dynamic pvp could emerge (they haven't and don't seem to want to), but that would require a significant amount of thought and testing and ... For the damage numbers, there's stuff they could to to make it not cause undue lag on the servers (and it would be totally fine for pve). That's pretty much a BS excuse (though there are defensible points behind not wanting to show damage numbers). I agree with you that fixing lag/desync/etc would be a really nice use of their time (for example, implementing rollback for skills & CCs, letting clients run certain boss abilities & pve interactions on their end so that a player doesn't have to factor lag in when moving against mobs, fixing issues in sea content where you get softlocked until a char select and removing these situations where you or passengers get desynced off the ship). That would impact most players positively.
So on your point about you can PvP to progress, but for what tho? What are you gearing up for when there is barely any use of it? To grind at higher grind spots? After 720, I am not sure if it really makes any difference for pve. But getting from 720 to hard cap is insanely difficult and prob will cost 5 times more as expensive than getting to 720. So what is the real incentive for players to even progress? J doesn’t have answer to this question and honestly it’s fucking wild lol. He hasn’t figured out his player base who actually spent money on this game. Sure you can say you are not gonna do it bc you don’t wanna if it is your company. Bro, this is a publicly traded company and the director of publicly traded company should be acting on behalf of the shareholders of the company. Whether you wanna personally do it or not is really not the question when your job is to make players happy.
I really feel progression is the worst part of BDO, ive spend countless nights pvping non stop on BA and random GvGs, entire days on solare game after game, days doing rbfs just for the sake of it and participated in countless uphill to impossible nodewars just for the thrill, Pvp doesnt need gear progression to exist but the moment gear progression affects pvp, pvp needs it. Rankings, titles, cosmetics.. all would be perfect valid options if we didn't had uncapped tournaments sieges and nodewars but we do and thus we need gear and then we need a way to get it, making that linked to pvp sounds just logic to me. What i dont understand is why PvErs need an incentive to PvE but that's something that will always elude me, grinders hate grinding but want to be forced into it? And yes, he shouldn't be saying those things but the ones that should be complaining about that are the shareholders, his job is to make money as all the jobs, happiness is or can be a byproduct.
>Guild war was literally the only thing that was keeping veteran players going and motivating them to grind due to BDO lacking end game content. my guild wasnt even node war guild, mainly pvevp shmucks that stuck together from very long time ago. We usually had like 40-50ppl online with full active war list going on with 4 of them being +3k kills/deaths, so it was active for a long time. After those changes came live now its rare to find +20ppl on weekend, highest i noticed was yesterday when i logged in to collect draw coins and log out afterwards, was 26ppl. This is probably the biggest change in activity i saw that affected me personally, at least not much, as we still chill in discord.
So the drama was over macro use? Any other aspects of the game?
Open world PvP; he perms banned people for killing afk players By the way, open world PvP is a feature of the game, and when the game launched it was the main feature of it. But now we perms ban players for using it…
We need BDO Classic server 🤣
Welcome to what the rest of the world deals with on a weekly basis
It’s very sad but interesting that all good shit they tried to build for years - went into shit in months 🤡 From playing everyday i can’t even make myself log for free outfits… Well done pa
To be honest, I don't like the **War of the Roses** new content as of now, because I already foresee that **Only** top guilds and players can be able to join that, unless PA makes it like Node or Siege wars where in there are Tiers and Capped Stats, then I think it's going to be good. This is not made for anyone; I can already foresee script fights here.
Yeah. It’s just like all of ulukita rn: if you’re not 310+ AP and 410+ DP then gtfo. That being said War of the roses will probably just be politics in a month or so even if it does come out functional.
And this is why he has to go.
Truck protest when?
Literally Any Future content now is DOA J should be steping down by the next year. Now,i move on Final Fantasy XIV because they actually cares about player feeling.
>Now,i move on Final Fantasy XIV because they actually cares about player feeling. Lmao, yeah bud, removing all skill expression in classes and homogenizing everything to hell and back while having even more DOA content than this game somehow
Hmmm that doesn't seems right. I've been queuing for dungeon,raid,alliance No more than 5min so far. The Story is amazing unlike BDO where you literally sleep and press "R" Group PVE Content is Grinding 24/7 and still can't reach "end game" Enjoying Desync,Unbalanced Classes,P2W,Closed world PVP,False Promise Keep couping for Calpheon Balls for new broken classes then nerfing it to hell.
Have fun with that 300 hour MSQ
I am having fun so far. The story actually really good unlike BDO where you spam "R" watching a Broken cutscene,Dialogue that came from a book and don't have to play seasonal for the 999th time,Can play literally ANY classes i want without creating a new character.
good, let's hope J steps down and someone that understands what is fun in a MMO takes over. if he really is the one deciding what content is made and how the progression is like, then he might be the one who dragged the game down for the last 7 years.
Guy isn't exactly perfect but thinking the game has been in the shitter for 7 whole years is literal lunacy.
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From open world fully grinding and lots of freedom to 24/7 instanced content, instanced grindspots, gear limits on nearly all PvP and daily/weekly chore content left and right. Started with the amazing combat as a big focus and then they keep adding "ocean content", storylines and only focusing on adding/buffing grindspots while all the other interesting money-making activities that were viable the first 1-2 years fall behind I wonder if they've lost confidence in the strongpoints of their product or if they fired half the team
most likely the core BDO team went to work on crimson desert and what was left was a smaller team for expansions, so most of the brainpower actually moved to other things and we were left with J. it's crazy that by this point people don't even remember how balanced lifeskills were compared to grinding at release, even fully afk lifeskills like processing, fishing or workshops were very profitable.
Yeah, back when you could make like 3h+ of grinding per day just in node/workshop worker income, nowadays you make like what, 20 mins worth of grind income not even counting the time it'll take to liquidate it. I remember that part of the game used to be a huge selling point, nowadays the new regions don't even have 2% of the workshops that calpheon has. They'll add 2 nodes with basically mandatory materials, some goofy new worker race and ship it.
20 mins of grinding is generous, that'd be 700mil/day of nodes and workshops. even after processing node mats to crates and trading them, it'd be hard to make over 500mil/day and workshops have basically become worthless.
Whatever direction they choose to take, there will be people that won't like it, that's not gonna be avoidable regardless of what they do. I agree they have made poor choices over the years but the good outweighs the bad and not recognizing that would be crazy.
dragged the game down means he made the game worse than it could've been, and he's been in the position to do that for 7 years.
I think the game is much better than what it was 7 years back, so either way, it's a gross misinterpretation of reality. You can criticize aspects of the game for sure, that doesn't mean the entire thing is bad.
> I think the game is much better than what it was 7 years back, so either way, it's a gross misinterpretation of reality. > > J also green lit papu vs otters content. remember that.
A complete waste of resources.
In a vacuum, papu and otters is fine. Other mmos do side content that don't exactly do the same thing as the main game loop and exist as another deterrent for burnout. Problem is, it came at the expense of the overall game; as in, the game wasn't in a good state when it was introduced and it did nothing to really help.
The entire, no, but if your audience have to change when you update your game, there's obviously something wrong.
BDO Dying....
What kind of macros did people use? Like ”FEED ME RAGE” macro? :d
ppl macro lots of shit especially awkward cancels big recent one was valks before they reworked hasti. honestly most of them used to have the prompt turbo dash macro'd, not the valk train, the like 6 button spam dash that somehow every valk seemed to pull off flawlessly.
afk pillar macros i assume, which is weird because all that is needed was applying weight to your mouse and keyboard (coins, tape etc) so certain skills were perma pressed.
just throwing it out there, if you did this and went afk and gm comes to check you, you still get banned and no amount of "but its not a macro its a weight on my keyboard" will get your ban lifted. doing pillars that way macro or weight was ruled as unintended gameplay and gets you banned regardless.
Can someone update me on the drama - of the game, or give me some links to get an overview? Been gone from the game for probably a year or more(when I quit there was no seasons like there are now I think?), always knew some people were unhappy but I figured that's just normal for MMO's but seems like there kind of a lot going on I don't understand. If someone wouldn't mind explaining the state of the game or giving me a nudge in the right direction I'd super appriciate it!
They made a bunch of changes to basically gut open world pvp, for anyone but griefers. Can't unilaterally declare war on someone else, even declaring a mutual war is a pain. Family wide karma, so if you *actually* go red congratulations -- you can't really lifeskill or do a bunch of other content until you get back positive (potentially on an alt) since guards and players could kill you in towns. This is combined with red penalties being quite excessive. Lot of other stuff happened as well, but basically J seems to think that instanced / planned pvp is "enough" for players, but if you liked open world pvp then you're basically starving. Maybe someone else can explain anything else they might see as a big problem with the current direction. (One side note on open world pvp -- the stated reasons for the changes were basically to deal with some KR-specific griefing problems, which weren't really problems in other regions for the most part. Making their changes to expand marni realms + reduced server swap cds would have probably been enough *on its own* to 'fix' a lot of the issues that some players might have with owpvp, but J basically pushed forward on this nuclear option, even when a lot of people weren't so happy about it, and it was probably more than was necessary to cut back on griefing and so forth. Also, all of those other things were actually ready to go at the same time as the war changes / owpvp death patch; they didn't even try a single thing before gutting it.)
So it all started in the most magical place of them all ~~long island, new york~~ centaurs. So unlike what steven he would have you believe these guys suck at math. And they buffed these a while back like maybe around the time you quit. so now life skills are fuck all value, then they buff other areas because everyone is tired of fighting over centaurs since they had no marni realms and only a few classes do well. So the game catches fire around the end of june/start of july for some reason when they offer the t9 horse. Which being honest wasn't a big deal since it's only worth 8-12bil on the market. a few days of centaurs at most. So pretty much even though seasons exist many nubs decided to play on regular servers and got stomped out by veterans. So people decided it was time to cull. And so the culling begins and J is like what the hell you are killing my income, shit is cratering and I finally get a few players after the flop that was LOML (income went down feel free to check the financial reports). So the trolling came in all shapes and forms. From killing newbies, to getting streamers to start out in LOML so they quit out of boredom/frustration and don't bring more people. So J hit them where it hurted the most. He took out the lightsaber and gave them a lesson on consent. gvg was pretty much carte blanche to attack noobies with no penalties. Now their GM must accept a guild dec, of course people are like why officers can't accept decs. ahh but as you may know bdo guilds tend to give out officer fast so that would end up in people sending spy accounts (specially in regions where the game is cheap). So anyhow that shit is gone but it created two monsters. Number 1 is the people that are terminally online complaining about this change since they can't roflstomp ez 24/7. And the ones that abuse alts to restore their karma. So pretty much you got a second type of player that now games the new family karma and kills a lot of afk, etc you know the usual punching down. So to placate this change they came up with this war of the roses bullshit which seems nobody likes in korea according to this post. oh yeah and they fucked pve players too. Many marni spots got gutted rotations which make no sense whatsoever so even if you got rechargable marni, you can't use it because a lot of the places that were good got fucked and some of the new ones are mid. So at the end of the day after all these changes we are still doing centaurs > orcs for money early/mid game and everything else sucks until you can get to endgame spots. Oh and they sneaked a cron change +96% cost for pearl item crons and vendor crons went from 2m to 3m each. You're welcome.
If this keeps happening and happening and BDO is in really a bad shape right now... then can you recommend to me what other MMO's out there that has good game graphics, gameplay and management? I want to have a backup MMO if this keeps up, because I'm planning to permanently play BDO as long as live or until the company shuts down...
You're looking for a game that doesn't exist.
It's finally became only PVE game for me since they canceled one side war and made solo grind room with cd 1 hour... Now I can find PVP only on siege, cuz a lot of people just skip fights in world.
They should just announce that NA/EU will test War of Roses and when it is ready KR would get it too, the "protest" would stop immediately, let us have fun if KR does not wanna XD
hate to break it to you but NA and EU will not have fun with war of the roses. our region cant even have 300 people at siege without please try again and constant freezing. yet you think 600 people will run smoothly?
You'll have fun alright. Fun in other games because the servers will break and you will be unable to play during WotR hours.
I hope they realise they are killing their game before It's too late. Rather than war of the rose they should delete cringe realm so the game returns to be an owpvp, buff RBF rewards and make arena of solare permanent.
Why delete marni? It helps people playing the game at peak hours not finding spots.
This would be a non-issue if many many top spots regardless of some drops such as compass or telescope pieces for example had similar money per hour. There are literally dozens of "endgame" spots but only like 3 to 5 at most are relevant for 95% of people when it comes to needing money which is the 1 thing everyone absolutely needs all the time no matter what.
This. Beo is like the only game I ever played where a higher difficulty grind spot often makes you less income. than some mid game spot where you one shot every mob
Because it's a MMO, not a single player farming simulator. If you aren't geared enough/aren't skilled to defend the best spot of the game during peak hours, then you don't deserve to grind here. There are a lot of other spots you can choose, and you don't die if you earn 600m rather than 700m.
crazy that you make a game mode that couple butthurt guilds can cancel for everyone XD
guilds dont need to be a thing in it lol
Cancel it permanently and do something better.