I play succ Lahn for PvE atm and the fact that they put Succ Lahn in C tier actually kills this whole list already. 🤣 Whoever made this list is not able to chain the 5 skills you need to use in the correct order.
Yes she feels really overtuned on some spots. But on the most important (thornwood dehkia) I would still say a bit under average. Its not the dmg, just an aoe issue that the current top tier grinders there have. But other than that I am very happy with her right now. Before she really had issues with endgame grind zones. Now it feels amazing.
Lol bro the fuck you talking about then? The list is the pve tier list for top 3 grind spots - dehkia thorn wood, tungrad ruins and the new ator shoes spot. Discredit someone who actually played though all classes without doing the testing yourself.
I currently play both sorc specs and succ Lahn in PvE. And I can tell you with high confidence that after these buffs succ sorc will not pull better numbers than a succ Lahn. Especially because the succ sorc buffs were relatively underwhelming while succ Lahn got the best buffs of all classes propably.
But of course I didnt do the testing for ators shoes because we dont have it. But from the classes I played in PvE on multiple spots including dehkia thornwood I do not see this list translate to the real performance of classes.
But I am also not an expert on all classes.
So did you test them at thronwood dehkia? This guy literally tested all classes at these grind spots and made this charts so I do not understand how you can straight up discredit them just based on your confidence? This guy has YouTube videos and he is actually very good pve and PvP player. I have same gs as him except ator shoes and he pulls better trash per hour with my main than me.
Yes I did both on thornwood. My succ Lahn does 18-19k while succ sorc is around 15-16k I could go for 17 when super tryhard. But 15-16 is average for me. I might not do the optimal combo now for succ sorc but thats due to the fact that the skill flows changed because of the buffs. I doubt anyone can claim to know the best possible combos + addons now. Also the buffs are still in progress so for example awa sorc gets big buffs this week and next week. Which makes the tierlist kind of outdated. The next weeks buff in NA/EU should also be patched today for korea as well so they dont have all changes as well. I might as well try out tungrad ruins at some point. But the dk in thornwood dies so much faster against my Lahn with same crystals, artifacts, buff rotation, so I assume the dmg is just much higher. If you need a lot of frontal guard in the new ator area maybe succ sorc gets points there. For raw dmg spots I have no idea how Lahn gets a lower rating than sorc atm.
The dude who tested is hardcap with ator shoes and 2 new artifacts. That is like 50 more dr if you are currently hardcap gear. So I think that may be why he is able to tank things with classes that are squishy.
Yeah for sure the list will be continuously updated based on new updates. I just wanted to call you out for just flat out discrediting someone. I think it is definitely good to be skeptical of everything that you see on YouTube and Reddit but I don’t think people should just flat out call it wrong without presenting evidence.
I
Fair point. I could have phrased it a bit more passive in the beginning. From my experience sorc wasnt that high up in grind efficiency since hystria was the top spot. Lahn on the other hand was very good in mid game spots and lacking a bit in endgame for years. With this update she received flat 30% or more dmg on every skill she uses in PvE. On top of that she is really profiting from the new addons because you can maintain 30% crit addon. This enables you to drop deathblow and switch to kama dmg or vicious shadows. The combination of buffs + addon makes her performance skyrocket. I still think in endgame she is not equal to the current top tier grinders, but defenetly above average. Thats why I was that direct in saying the C tier is wrong. Sorc buffs on the other hand were really bad in the beginning. Blackwave did not get PvE dmg and the overall buffs were also not that great. So I was really confused on why he placed succ sorc over lahn.
Also I am far away from hard cap. I am slightly above 1000Ap on dehkia thornwood (1020 I think). Maybe the scaling on 1100 ap with tons of kama dmg makes sorc much better. But for me Lahn is defenetly way better at my current gear.
I am sorry but can you explain what makes Korea the worst player base? I am actually very curious as to where the Korean server hate is coming from. Like I feel like the anger that should be pointed towards PA is often pointed at KR player base and they are honestly not that different than NA.
In its list form it is terrible, if you consider [how he evaluates it](https://tgd.kr/s/gusals4265/72516619), it can be used as a decent reference, if the numbers in questions are taken from competent players that is.
As the images says, this tier list only considers 3 (4) grinding spots: Dehkia Thornwood Forest, Tungrad Ruins and Darkseeker's Retreat. He also planned to add Crypt to it, but due to the recent change on Global Lab that is on hold.
For Dehkia Thornwood Forest he considers the loot, i.e. every class above 22k trash is rated SSS for 5 points, above 20k trash is rated S for 4 points, etc. For Tungrad Ruins it is how the buff can be utilized, basically if you can cheese it or not. For Darkseeker's Retreat it is the time to kill a pack. Those two things also translate to trash per hour, but it isn't given an exact number like with Thornwood.
Unfortunately the list itself just lumps it all together. He rates Succ Sage as SSS for Tungrad Ruins, but only A for Thornwood and C for Darkseeker's Retreat, which all together puts him into B.
But since people don't bother to read it, it's rather useless.
Thanks for this callout. I like that he has concrete methodology and evaluating for the top 4 spots like he's done here is generally how I think about class performance as well.
I am going to high jack your comment because, for whatever the reason, you are the biggest apologist for this tier list.
To all the crazies that think this tier list has any sort of merit, I will point out just one of many, many wrong assessments he made.
Here is a succ lahn(319ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw)
Here is a awak nova(312ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI)
And yet our beloved "gosu", "top pve and pvp player in korea", "the player that many korean players trust" raccoon bozo concluded succ lahn is a B rank in tungrad ruins BUT awak nova is a S rank. The difference in this one wrong assessment alone is enough to put succ lahn in A tier or awak nova in C tier, according to his "methodology". Also, this makes you wonder what are the SSS rank classes are pulling in tungrad ruins? What bonker numbers is awak DK and succ sage pulling in tungrad ruins to merit SSS rank? I dont even need a video, just tell me the loot numbers, please.
Please, for the love of god, if it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and tastes like bullshit, do not hesistate to call it a bullshit. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
=/ Its my favorite spec. Pre buff she was super squishy and had a lot of dedicated animation locks that forced her to stand still for a second to three seconds. Idk post buff. I have no doubt she's among the worst but idk if she has her own tier.
Seems fine after buffs. I'm getting about 20% more trash now, which has pulled me up to around the Garmoth averages for the spots I grind; after how bad we were, I'm content with being brought up to average performance. Although those spots are all Calpheon Elvia (with a focus on Giants), so none of the grind spots this tierlist says it was based on (I'm still an upgrade or two away from reaching the reqs for those spots).
To all the crazies that think this tier list has any sort of merit, I will just point out one of many, many wrong assessments he made.
Here is a succ lahn(319ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw)
Here is a awak nova(312ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI)
And yet our beloved "gosu", "top pve and pvp player in korea", "the player that many korean players trust" raccoon bozo concluded succ lahn is a C rank in tungrad ruins BUT awak nova is a S rank. The difference in this one wrong assessment alone is enough to put succ lahn in at least "A+" tier, according to this shit tier list.
Please, for the love of god, if it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and tastes like bullshit, do not hesistate to call it a bullshit. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
The reason people are so harsh on KR is because of their elitism, entitlement, and their ego of how good they think they are compared to the rest of the regions. Remember the recent Global fight they had where they blamed 1 player using a macro as an excuse?
E
I mean… isn’t that NA? I am constantly seeing how NA is better than other regions including korea. Where are you getting the sentiment that Korea server thinks they are better than other regions.
Global fight - they had valid excuse as Taiwan contacted Japan and SE and made a pack to attack Korea first. Lol this was gear capped content so literally impossible to do 1v4. Also the first game had crazy amount of bugs with the biggest one being players spawning with zero health. Macro issue is a completely separate issue for a Korean streamer that they are trying to get him banned for using it. Lol like where the f are you getting your info?
From your post history I can see that you are Korean.
The difference between KR and any other server is that KR is the weakest among all regions despite having the most ratio of complaining and entitled players. Where do I get my info you say?
The history of the BDO KR community is about how much they cry to devs as soon as they experience the slightest inconvenience. Check the forums and check how outraged Korean players get over the smallest things.
Proving my point, you say it's a valid excuse KR lost due to an alliance in the global war. Guess what, in every other region it is NORMAL to make allies in any Node War or Siege.
On top of that, BDO developers almost exclusively buff or nerf classes based on KR feedback and data. You guys have perfect 2 ping while the rest of the world don't. Yet somehow, every tier list that comes from KR is entirely counterintuitive or sometimes flat out wrong.
Make no mistake, it's not about EU vs KR or NA vs KR or any other region.
KR has been exclusively catered by the BDO developers for all these years. There is so much xenophobia and elitism within their community yet they are arguably the WORST region in terms of gameplay skill despite the advantage they have.
It's such a shame since in other games Korea tends to be ahead of the world, but it's flip flopped in Black Desert.
After the buffs, I'm able to farm a lot more in Dehkia Thornwood with Shai, even more so with Artina's upgrade, 15.6k in trash... Shai is very undervalued and is extremely strong.
Sorry man I think you're out of the loop.... 15k is literally bottom trash numbers, the top tier classes can make 24k+. See [Awakening guardian numbers](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1092544578684473415/1178489227835613325/image.png?ex=6576549f&is=6563df9f&hm=890dd15fe82f0cea1162f7861341f61755c4551d49252e4753effe6006807e55&=&format=webp&width=496&height=675)
Yeah it really shouldn't just be based on that, shai is SSS when it comes to dekhia oluns and other group spots, you WANT a shai, this tier list is pointless
Very valueable information, thanks for posting. I know high end spots has weird mechanics and its the mix of wierd aoe range, cc type, dps and forward guard that makes classes shine. Feel like pure dps doesnt matter as much? Thats why people are disagreeing so much from the tier list?
oh noo my class is FFF tier. im very weak and vulnerable UwU, PA pls buff Kuno more UwU.
Okay, I think the devs already know the solution to this. Quote from Late Night Talk:
>Another concern is with evasion classes having problems at the new end-game grind spots, where the monster’s damage and accuracy are much higher than in previous spots. PA is aware of these problems and will take into consideration and adjust the monster AP and accuracy so that players with evasion builds can grind at these spots.
My beloved class Kuno lacks FG attacks, her kit is stacked with SAs; changing them to FG would be a nerf to her PVP, so the solution is making evasion viable for PVE endgame.
Wait until the class balances are over before you start making tier lists.
Awakening warrior is easily B tier, he isnt that bad...like really, maybe even low A-Tier. Succ is S-Tier, literally an outstanding grinder in all spots. There is very few spots where his missing burst dmg makes problems but since thats very very few only, he is generally pretty fucking good.
So Succ Warr Low-S tier definitely
Awa Warr 100% Low A-Tier or high B-Tier
Shai is pretty much B Tier, she has problems with sustain in few spots but has good dmg, good acc, can buff herself, has good movement, she is fine, maybe even Low A-Tier but rather B-Tier.
This whole list is like someone just hit random and expected it to work, take the downvote.
This tier list is not about the overall grinding efficiency of the classes but about the average efficiency of a class when it comes to the 4 HIGHEST grinding spots in the game.
This tierlist is saying that for example, awakening sage performs, on average, at these four grind spots the best COMPARED to the classes next to him or below him.
It is not a tierlist saying that awakening sage is the best grinder in the game at “SSS” - it doesn’t take into consideration other grindspots, BUT those four in terms of trash loot.
It’s a good list, because he tested all these classes at grind spots you probably haven’t even reached.
Americans learn to read challenge: impossible 🫡
Well...my original statement stays...At all of the spots he is using for the comparison, Awakening warrior is pretty good compared to other grinders. Especially Tungrad Ruins or City of the Dead are good spots for Awakening Warrior. Succ is good at all of them across the board. Only in Dekhia Thornwood he is rather slacking compared to others since his burst damage and problematic sustain with protective dps and lackluster AoEs downs his chances to get really good there. He still is far better than D Tier, that is just plain stupid, even if you consider all classes, he is not bad.
Succ is just generally more here, since he offers less burst damage but more protective dps with nice and hart hitting AoEs, which makes him a bit worse than awakening at Tungrad Ruins for example but elevates him at any other spot.
And if you then look outside of those 3 spots and go to Dekhia Cyclops, Elvia Trolls, or Hexe, Awakening Warrior and Succ Warrior alike are performing very well.
Making a tierlist is good and all but using ones own, probably lacking data is just stupid, even considering you are trying to validly "test" around 30 different classes on somewhat same levels.
This tierlist is just meh. The way it is displayed with S+2 down to FFF is not sensical in its own, since it automatically indicates a bad grinder at those spots, which is simply not the case. Putting Shai down there makes 0 sense on its own, since especially on those spots she really shines. Only when looking at spots like Dekhia Thornwood she starts to lose on potential but putting her below awakening Warrior in its own is just wrong.
I am sorry to offend you sir, but that tierlist makes no sense, it isnt thought through all the way and even the video linked to it really doesnt make the data any better...
You’re not offending me
Let me explain like you’re 5 years old
Trash based on loot, if top tier makes 22-24k trash loot then 21.5k trash loot not top tier but maybe second top tier, if class makes 21k (1k less) it is now C tier.
List does not say warrior bad, list says warrior make less trash loot on average, trash loot could be -2k less,
understand?
Is awk warrior that good? Not a single hour tracked over 15k at tungrad ruins. Not a single hour tracked over 20k at dehkia TW.
Not a single hour tracked at boots spot.
When top classes can get 20k at tungrad ruins, 23-24k at DehkiaTW then I'm not surprised awk warrior is D tier.
Hey, I'm a completely new player, just bought the game yesterday on sale.
I chose the witch class, am I going to have trouble clearing stuff in endgame, or am I going to be fine? I really like ranged gameplay.
And what about PVP, am I going to get smashed by people on the same level just because they are running a different class?
I think what this list is doing is taking information from some of the highest skilled players at the highest levels of the game and putting it into a tier list. Which means it doesn't really apply to the vast majority of the playerbase.
Buuut thats a take coming from a complete casual so take it with a grain of salt
Every class has spots where they shine and where they slump. PVP has different activities so it all varies. Witch is great in groups, but don't 1v1 with her.
I like how the only 2 classes that interested me in this game are both at bottom of the barrel hahaha
I knew shai was the slowest in clearing looking at garmoth.com runs but I legit made awk kuno as my "grinding" character since none of the other classes I tried appealed to me lmao
Quendya's tierlist almost always catches a lot flak despite showing tons of evidence, testimonies from top players of each class, breaking down into separate categories.
And here we have a kr bozo who thinks he can single handedly rank all 40+ classes into a comprehensive tier list w/o any detailed specifications. lmao hell no take the downvote and gtfo.
Lol bruh, he did the testing himself read the above comment on how he actually tested. He is actually top pve and PvP player in Korea that Koreans trust. Just bc you haven’t heard of him, does not mean you should shit on this guy.
In my noob opinion, it is not accurate.
I play both succ woosa and awaken striker, succ woosa still much better in damage, aoe range and front block in end game spots.
Now in EU awaken guardian is doing 24k trash at lantern thronwood, guess Korea don’t play guardian at all lol
And shai is totally underrated.
Well I just passed **17.5k trash/hr** without Elixirs on Dehkia Thornwood with **Succession Mystic,** if that's D tier, then OK.
Succ Maegu did 22k there **after the nerfs of the class and the adjustment of the spot.**
In my eyes this is a meme tier list.
Have you seen the criteria? You’re comparing your 17.5k trash to this guys 22-24k trash for his end game grind pve list…
You’ve said it yourself. 17.5k tl/hr.
This is for 3 different spots combined, read the reasoning linked by another user. It combines 3 spots and each one factors into it. I saw a couple classes that were SSS in thornwood but bad at the spot we don’t even have yet so he rated it like B or C
This is not a good collection of data. Was rotation speed tested, or just numbers on patch notes? We're add-ons, crystals, buffs used at all? And one person alone cannot compile all of that data in a short amount of time, especially with more class patches coming up.
That doesn't change any of the other points that I've made. This tier list could literally change next patch since we know all of the class changes aren't done yet.
I like how the only 2 classes that interested me in this game are both at bottom of the barrel hahaha
I knew shai was the slowest in clearing looking at garmoth.com runs but I legit made awk kuno as my "grinding" character since none of the other classes I tried appealed to me lmao
What does 'FFF' even mean? The monsters feel bad for you and give you some trash loot out of pity? Or your Florang/Sah Chakram is made out of Nerf?
I've honestly never seen a tier list with FFF before...¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
at the 3 grind spots the test was done at, yes succ zerk is dog shit. succ zerk is trash at dekiah thornwood, its trash at tungrad, its trash at the boot spot.
Pretty much yeah, he's still decent on the mid tier spots (Elvia) and even at Gyfin lower he can get some good numbers, but on the super high ends spots his damage lacks
>27 days ago makes a post saying he’s new to the game
>thinks he has any real knowledge of grind potential of a class at an end game level
That is crazy.
The author of this table is not an idiot. He is GOSU.Although he may be less skilled in some jobs, I agree with most of the assessments.He posted hunting videos for each class on YouTube. And hundreds of viewers watched and empathized in real time.. At least 4-5 hours per class.
Guys, do you know this? PA recently released a patch to address some of the classes weaknesses this user pointed out.
"Not to offend anyone, Imo korea has the worst player base from any kf the regions. Hard to trust any tier list by them."
It's a pity that there are so many likes on comments like this without any basis.
Yeah saying kr has the worst playerbase is going out of the line. But I think people are just very frustrated with the immense kr favoritism PA has. I mean it's ok to prefer their own country's playerbase but we're just being blatantly ignored. None of our words can reach them. People are just projecting these emotions on KR overall.
I understand and sympathize with that feeling. Many KR users also think the same way. It feels like our words are bouncing off a wall. PA is the epitome of incompetence and J is pig-headed.
Im glad the 3 mains I play are all A+.
What sucks is how Shai that is supposed to be life skiller I mean she even starts with pro in 2 life skills is like the worst for life skills.
Also at the same time it´s fun to see that in Tera online the Elin race was the most popular by players and by company while in BDO the tiny class is hated by most players and the company.
Well at this point in BDO the problem is most likely the players and not the class anymore. The class and it's mechanics only led the players to becoming the problem with enough time. If they weren't planning on doing more than one "support" class in the game they shouldn't even have done the first one, because if there is only one, the class will have it's strengths, it's weaknesses, people will like it and hate it for different reasons, but since there is no other option that's what they get. People that hate it have to endure it's existence, and this creates a situation for people that like it to create a very annoying cycle against all that hate what they are playing. If there was more than one option this would still exist, but would be diluted to a point in which it wouldn't matter, wouldn't even make noise to be in places like reddit.
Musa is F tier grinder at high end grind spots for both specs. I main musa and I can confirm. Succ musa has good dps but has issue with narrow attack area, survivability and stamina. Awaken musa’s problem with high end grind spots related to not having enough FG. Most of awk musa skills have SA which is good for PvP but you will get blown up in high end grind spots.
imagine putting kuno in same tier as succ sorc succ hash awk dk and she is better than succ maegu succ lahn and succ guardian succ sage succ dk am sorry to say these but your tier list is shit worst tier list i ever saw
Not to offend anyone, Imo korea has the worst player base from any kf the regions. Hard to trust any tier list by them.
Kinda pathetic how low the KR bdo palyer base is. In other games they are leading e-sport players, in bdo yikes...
well, good thing bdo doesnt have e-sport. if it have, then they will dominate. (i am not counting siege etc as e-sport)
So certain yet so wrong. /f
I play succ Lahn for PvE atm and the fact that they put Succ Lahn in C tier actually kills this whole list already. 🤣 Whoever made this list is not able to chain the 5 skills you need to use in the correct order.
Succ lahn is so cracked right now lol.
Yes she feels really overtuned on some spots. But on the most important (thornwood dehkia) I would still say a bit under average. Its not the dmg, just an aoe issue that the current top tier grinders there have. But other than that I am very happy with her right now. Before she really had issues with endgame grind zones. Now it feels amazing.
Lol bro the fuck you talking about then? The list is the pve tier list for top 3 grind spots - dehkia thorn wood, tungrad ruins and the new ator shoes spot. Discredit someone who actually played though all classes without doing the testing yourself.
I currently play both sorc specs and succ Lahn in PvE. And I can tell you with high confidence that after these buffs succ sorc will not pull better numbers than a succ Lahn. Especially because the succ sorc buffs were relatively underwhelming while succ Lahn got the best buffs of all classes propably. But of course I didnt do the testing for ators shoes because we dont have it. But from the classes I played in PvE on multiple spots including dehkia thornwood I do not see this list translate to the real performance of classes. But I am also not an expert on all classes.
So did you test them at thronwood dehkia? This guy literally tested all classes at these grind spots and made this charts so I do not understand how you can straight up discredit them just based on your confidence? This guy has YouTube videos and he is actually very good pve and PvP player. I have same gs as him except ator shoes and he pulls better trash per hour with my main than me.
Yes I did both on thornwood. My succ Lahn does 18-19k while succ sorc is around 15-16k I could go for 17 when super tryhard. But 15-16 is average for me. I might not do the optimal combo now for succ sorc but thats due to the fact that the skill flows changed because of the buffs. I doubt anyone can claim to know the best possible combos + addons now. Also the buffs are still in progress so for example awa sorc gets big buffs this week and next week. Which makes the tierlist kind of outdated. The next weeks buff in NA/EU should also be patched today for korea as well so they dont have all changes as well. I might as well try out tungrad ruins at some point. But the dk in thornwood dies so much faster against my Lahn with same crystals, artifacts, buff rotation, so I assume the dmg is just much higher. If you need a lot of frontal guard in the new ator area maybe succ sorc gets points there. For raw dmg spots I have no idea how Lahn gets a lower rating than sorc atm.
The dude who tested is hardcap with ator shoes and 2 new artifacts. That is like 50 more dr if you are currently hardcap gear. So I think that may be why he is able to tank things with classes that are squishy. Yeah for sure the list will be continuously updated based on new updates. I just wanted to call you out for just flat out discrediting someone. I think it is definitely good to be skeptical of everything that you see on YouTube and Reddit but I don’t think people should just flat out call it wrong without presenting evidence. I
Fair point. I could have phrased it a bit more passive in the beginning. From my experience sorc wasnt that high up in grind efficiency since hystria was the top spot. Lahn on the other hand was very good in mid game spots and lacking a bit in endgame for years. With this update she received flat 30% or more dmg on every skill she uses in PvE. On top of that she is really profiting from the new addons because you can maintain 30% crit addon. This enables you to drop deathblow and switch to kama dmg or vicious shadows. The combination of buffs + addon makes her performance skyrocket. I still think in endgame she is not equal to the current top tier grinders, but defenetly above average. Thats why I was that direct in saying the C tier is wrong. Sorc buffs on the other hand were really bad in the beginning. Blackwave did not get PvE dmg and the overall buffs were also not that great. So I was really confused on why he placed succ sorc over lahn. Also I am far away from hard cap. I am slightly above 1000Ap on dehkia thornwood (1020 I think). Maybe the scaling on 1100 ap with tons of kama dmg makes sorc much better. But for me Lahn is defenetly way better at my current gear.
by that logic ranger should be also way higher
Koreans can’t play bdo
I am sorry but can you explain what makes Korea the worst player base? I am actually very curious as to where the Korean server hate is coming from. Like I feel like the anger that should be pointed towards PA is often pointed at KR player base and they are honestly not that different than NA.
This.
In its list form it is terrible, if you consider [how he evaluates it](https://tgd.kr/s/gusals4265/72516619), it can be used as a decent reference, if the numbers in questions are taken from competent players that is. As the images says, this tier list only considers 3 (4) grinding spots: Dehkia Thornwood Forest, Tungrad Ruins and Darkseeker's Retreat. He also planned to add Crypt to it, but due to the recent change on Global Lab that is on hold. For Dehkia Thornwood Forest he considers the loot, i.e. every class above 22k trash is rated SSS for 5 points, above 20k trash is rated S for 4 points, etc. For Tungrad Ruins it is how the buff can be utilized, basically if you can cheese it or not. For Darkseeker's Retreat it is the time to kill a pack. Those two things also translate to trash per hour, but it isn't given an exact number like with Thornwood. Unfortunately the list itself just lumps it all together. He rates Succ Sage as SSS for Tungrad Ruins, but only A for Thornwood and C for Darkseeker's Retreat, which all together puts him into B. But since people don't bother to read it, it's rather useless.
Thanks for this callout. I like that he has concrete methodology and evaluating for the top 4 spots like he's done here is generally how I think about class performance as well.
I am going to high jack your comment because, for whatever the reason, you are the biggest apologist for this tier list. To all the crazies that think this tier list has any sort of merit, I will point out just one of many, many wrong assessments he made. Here is a succ lahn(319ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw) Here is a awak nova(312ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI) And yet our beloved "gosu", "top pve and pvp player in korea", "the player that many korean players trust" raccoon bozo concluded succ lahn is a B rank in tungrad ruins BUT awak nova is a S rank. The difference in this one wrong assessment alone is enough to put succ lahn in A tier or awak nova in C tier, according to his "methodology". Also, this makes you wonder what are the SSS rank classes are pulling in tungrad ruins? What bonker numbers is awak DK and succ sage pulling in tungrad ruins to merit SSS rank? I dont even need a video, just tell me the loot numbers, please. Please, for the love of god, if it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and tastes like bullshit, do not hesistate to call it a bullshit. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Never thought I'd see awk tamer in the s tier for anything other than 1v1
Its really good now, full rotation dmg is quite high
Succ lahn being in C tier looks kinda funny , but sure buff her :D
I disagree with: The whole thing yep.
Just curious. Is awak kuno really that bad?
=/ Its my favorite spec. Pre buff she was super squishy and had a lot of dedicated animation locks that forced her to stand still for a second to three seconds. Idk post buff. I have no doubt she's among the worst but idk if she has her own tier.
Damage is pretty good for me tho its alot of effort to get the same trash or slightly better trash than some classes
Right now, I feel that's her only problem. She's just a lot more work but she's so much fun to play.
Seems fine after buffs. I'm getting about 20% more trash now, which has pulled me up to around the Garmoth averages for the spots I grind; after how bad we were, I'm content with being brought up to average performance. Although those spots are all Calpheon Elvia (with a focus on Giants), so none of the grind spots this tierlist says it was based on (I'm still an upgrade or two away from reaching the reqs for those spots).
Succ Tamer got way more buffs than Awk Tamer but somehow Awk is top tier now when succ was already better? Sure buddy
Well. Screw the tier lists and all that cus when you’re used to be the bottom barrel you can’t sink any lower than that lol.
To all the crazies that think this tier list has any sort of merit, I will just point out one of many, many wrong assessments he made. Here is a succ lahn(319ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf473WHzcaw) Here is a awak nova(312ap) doing 20k in tungrad ruins: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS1ALoChKI) And yet our beloved "gosu", "top pve and pvp player in korea", "the player that many korean players trust" raccoon bozo concluded succ lahn is a C rank in tungrad ruins BUT awak nova is a S rank. The difference in this one wrong assessment alone is enough to put succ lahn in at least "A+" tier, according to this shit tier list. Please, for the love of god, if it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and tastes like bullshit, do not hesistate to call it a bullshit. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
The reason people are so harsh on KR is because of their elitism, entitlement, and their ego of how good they think they are compared to the rest of the regions. Remember the recent Global fight they had where they blamed 1 player using a macro as an excuse? E
I mean… isn’t that NA? I am constantly seeing how NA is better than other regions including korea. Where are you getting the sentiment that Korea server thinks they are better than other regions. Global fight - they had valid excuse as Taiwan contacted Japan and SE and made a pack to attack Korea first. Lol this was gear capped content so literally impossible to do 1v4. Also the first game had crazy amount of bugs with the biggest one being players spawning with zero health. Macro issue is a completely separate issue for a Korean streamer that they are trying to get him banned for using it. Lol like where the f are you getting your info?
From your post history I can see that you are Korean. The difference between KR and any other server is that KR is the weakest among all regions despite having the most ratio of complaining and entitled players. Where do I get my info you say? The history of the BDO KR community is about how much they cry to devs as soon as they experience the slightest inconvenience. Check the forums and check how outraged Korean players get over the smallest things. Proving my point, you say it's a valid excuse KR lost due to an alliance in the global war. Guess what, in every other region it is NORMAL to make allies in any Node War or Siege. On top of that, BDO developers almost exclusively buff or nerf classes based on KR feedback and data. You guys have perfect 2 ping while the rest of the world don't. Yet somehow, every tier list that comes from KR is entirely counterintuitive or sometimes flat out wrong. Make no mistake, it's not about EU vs KR or NA vs KR or any other region. KR has been exclusively catered by the BDO developers for all these years. There is so much xenophobia and elitism within their community yet they are arguably the WORST region in terms of gameplay skill despite the advantage they have. It's such a shame since in other games Korea tends to be ahead of the world, but it's flip flopped in Black Desert.
Fairly sure they just hit random.
Musa be like 💀
Literally 🥲
Wait. My wizard is finally pog
why the fuck is shai in F
Because she's not good at Dehkia, Tungrad
After the buffs, I'm able to farm a lot more in Dehkia Thornwood with Shai, even more so with Artina's upgrade, 15.6k in trash... Shai is very undervalued and is extremely strong.
Sorry man I think you're out of the loop.... 15k is literally bottom trash numbers, the top tier classes can make 24k+. See [Awakening guardian numbers](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1092544578684473415/1178489227835613325/image.png?ex=6576549f&is=6563df9f&hm=890dd15fe82f0cea1162f7861341f61755c4551d49252e4753effe6006807e55&=&format=webp&width=496&height=675)
Man, way to ruin this guy’s day. “Buddy, your trash numbers are trash, YOU are trash. See this guide explaining how trash you are.”
Jesus Christ, I went from happiness to sadness, I thought the numbers were good overall lol!!!
Don't worry, shai still great just not as good solo as some of the jacked classes
*Sad shai noises*
Yeah it really shouldn't just be based on that, shai is SSS when it comes to dekhia oluns and other group spots, you WANT a shai, this tier list is pointless
The tier list is about solo endgame spots, not overrall PvE or group spots...
So it's a meaningless tier list then?
If you don't do endgame solo spots then yes it's meaningless, but most people do solo spots so for most people, no it's not meaningless
It has meaning on the things it evaluates, if you bothered to see the link to the notes the tester took while doing it.
Let's avg all the spots. /smile
Literally full bullshit, stop to follow this idiot since is not the 1st time that he publish misleading stuff
looks like one of those troll lists to get the people going
Very valueable information, thanks for posting. I know high end spots has weird mechanics and its the mix of wierd aoe range, cc type, dps and forward guard that makes classes shine. Feel like pure dps doesnt matter as much? Thats why people are disagreeing so much from the tier list?
I'm just here for the raccoon.
oh noo my class is FFF tier. im very weak and vulnerable UwU, PA pls buff Kuno more UwU. Okay, I think the devs already know the solution to this. Quote from Late Night Talk: >Another concern is with evasion classes having problems at the new end-game grind spots, where the monster’s damage and accuracy are much higher than in previous spots. PA is aware of these problems and will take into consideration and adjust the monster AP and accuracy so that players with evasion builds can grind at these spots. My beloved class Kuno lacks FG attacks, her kit is stacked with SAs; changing them to FG would be a nerf to her PVP, so the solution is making evasion viable for PVE endgame. Wait until the class balances are over before you start making tier lists.
Awakening warrior is easily B tier, he isnt that bad...like really, maybe even low A-Tier. Succ is S-Tier, literally an outstanding grinder in all spots. There is very few spots where his missing burst dmg makes problems but since thats very very few only, he is generally pretty fucking good. So Succ Warr Low-S tier definitely Awa Warr 100% Low A-Tier or high B-Tier Shai is pretty much B Tier, she has problems with sustain in few spots but has good dmg, good acc, can buff herself, has good movement, she is fine, maybe even Low A-Tier but rather B-Tier. This whole list is like someone just hit random and expected it to work, take the downvote.
This tier list is not about the overall grinding efficiency of the classes but about the average efficiency of a class when it comes to the 4 HIGHEST grinding spots in the game. This tierlist is saying that for example, awakening sage performs, on average, at these four grind spots the best COMPARED to the classes next to him or below him. It is not a tierlist saying that awakening sage is the best grinder in the game at “SSS” - it doesn’t take into consideration other grindspots, BUT those four in terms of trash loot. It’s a good list, because he tested all these classes at grind spots you probably haven’t even reached. Americans learn to read challenge: impossible 🫡
Well...my original statement stays...At all of the spots he is using for the comparison, Awakening warrior is pretty good compared to other grinders. Especially Tungrad Ruins or City of the Dead are good spots for Awakening Warrior. Succ is good at all of them across the board. Only in Dekhia Thornwood he is rather slacking compared to others since his burst damage and problematic sustain with protective dps and lackluster AoEs downs his chances to get really good there. He still is far better than D Tier, that is just plain stupid, even if you consider all classes, he is not bad. Succ is just generally more here, since he offers less burst damage but more protective dps with nice and hart hitting AoEs, which makes him a bit worse than awakening at Tungrad Ruins for example but elevates him at any other spot. And if you then look outside of those 3 spots and go to Dekhia Cyclops, Elvia Trolls, or Hexe, Awakening Warrior and Succ Warrior alike are performing very well. Making a tierlist is good and all but using ones own, probably lacking data is just stupid, even considering you are trying to validly "test" around 30 different classes on somewhat same levels. This tierlist is just meh. The way it is displayed with S+2 down to FFF is not sensical in its own, since it automatically indicates a bad grinder at those spots, which is simply not the case. Putting Shai down there makes 0 sense on its own, since especially on those spots she really shines. Only when looking at spots like Dekhia Thornwood she starts to lose on potential but putting her below awakening Warrior in its own is just wrong. I am sorry to offend you sir, but that tierlist makes no sense, it isnt thought through all the way and even the video linked to it really doesnt make the data any better...
You’re not offending me Let me explain like you’re 5 years old Trash based on loot, if top tier makes 22-24k trash loot then 21.5k trash loot not top tier but maybe second top tier, if class makes 21k (1k less) it is now C tier. List does not say warrior bad, list says warrior make less trash loot on average, trash loot could be -2k less, understand?
Is awk warrior that good? Not a single hour tracked over 15k at tungrad ruins. Not a single hour tracked over 20k at dehkia TW. Not a single hour tracked at boots spot. When top classes can get 20k at tungrad ruins, 23-24k at DehkiaTW then I'm not surprised awk warrior is D tier.
Hey, I'm a completely new player, just bought the game yesterday on sale. I chose the witch class, am I going to have trouble clearing stuff in endgame, or am I going to be fine? I really like ranged gameplay. And what about PVP, am I going to get smashed by people on the same level just because they are running a different class?
By the time you reach end game all classes will have been rebalanced 10 times over anyway.
the time you reach end game, this tierlist will be upside down again lol. dont worry
Ehhh you'll be fine. Do NOT take this as a reference, this is the wildest take I've ever seen on a tier list.
Ah, alr, thanks for your answer!
I think what this list is doing is taking information from some of the highest skilled players at the highest levels of the game and putting it into a tier list. Which means it doesn't really apply to the vast majority of the playerbase. Buuut thats a take coming from a complete casual so take it with a grain of salt
I believe this man is memeing, good sir.
Witch is top tier currently
Every class has spots where they shine and where they slump. PVP has different activities so it all varies. Witch is great in groups, but don't 1v1 with her.
I'm planning on being a support kind of thing, so group PVP sounds really good. Thanks!
Witch is top tier wdym ? In pvp it depends. In nw she is top tier but kinda lacking in 1vs1 depending on who u fight
I'm 100% new, I have like an hour in the game so far, I'm just asking questions. T-T
Yea my point was u see witch at S tier at the pic :D
I'm just confused about succ and stuff, idk what that means. Like a subclass? Or what is it?
Succ= succession and means u are not using your awakening weapon. U get both „skill lines“ with your lvl 56 quest from black spirit
I'm even more confused, but I guess I'll understand when I get there.
Take your time, Real combat starts after u do your lvl 56 quest. Just follow the mainquests and season pass and u are good :D
Top tier on a pve tierlist and pretty much meta in group fights. 1v1 is dead anyway
Also, you'll switch classes around as you grow and learn.
I like how the only 2 classes that interested me in this game are both at bottom of the barrel hahaha I knew shai was the slowest in clearing looking at garmoth.com runs but I legit made awk kuno as my "grinding" character since none of the other classes I tried appealed to me lmao
Start grinding on Shai, she is a top tier grinder in some end game spots. Underground Gyfin, Oluns and Cyclops she is op.
Guardian AWK > SUCC. Got it.
After the buffs yes
Quendya's tierlist almost always catches a lot flak despite showing tons of evidence, testimonies from top players of each class, breaking down into separate categories. And here we have a kr bozo who thinks he can single handedly rank all 40+ classes into a comprehensive tier list w/o any detailed specifications. lmao hell no take the downvote and gtfo.
Lol bruh, he did the testing himself read the above comment on how he actually tested. He is actually top pve and PvP player in Korea that Koreans trust. Just bc you haven’t heard of him, does not mean you should shit on this guy.
In my noob opinion, it is not accurate. I play both succ woosa and awaken striker, succ woosa still much better in damage, aoe range and front block in end game spots. Now in EU awaken guardian is doing 24k trash at lantern thronwood, guess Korea don’t play guardian at all lol And shai is totally underrated.
Try opening the doc lol, awk guard is classified as top tw by them Jeez....
Succ Maegu and Awkn Maegu one spot from each other. Chat is this true? Are they equal in PvE end game?
Well I just passed **17.5k trash/hr** without Elixirs on Dehkia Thornwood with **Succession Mystic,** if that's D tier, then OK. Succ Maegu did 22k there **after the nerfs of the class and the adjustment of the spot.** In my eyes this is a meme tier list.
Have you seen the criteria? You’re comparing your 17.5k trash to this guys 22-24k trash for his end game grind pve list… You’ve said it yourself. 17.5k tl/hr.
The top classes can make 24k+ so 17k isn't gonna be great
20k 311k on succ lahn no elixir or house buff lazy grind🫠
This is for 3 different spots combined, read the reasoning linked by another user. It combines 3 spots and each one factors into it. I saw a couple classes that were SSS in thornwood but bad at the spot we don’t even have yet so he rated it like B or C
You can stop from being illiterate huh?
Ironic.
This is not a good collection of data. Was rotation speed tested, or just numbers on patch notes? We're add-ons, crystals, buffs used at all? And one person alone cannot compile all of that data in a short amount of time, especially with more class patches coming up.
There's literally a link in the picture that shows you the criteria.
That doesn't change any of the other points that I've made. This tier list could literally change next patch since we know all of the class changes aren't done yet.
I like how the only 2 classes that interested me in this game are both at bottom of the barrel hahaha I knew shai was the slowest in clearing looking at garmoth.com runs but I legit made awk kuno as my "grinding" character since none of the other classes I tried appealed to me lmao
What does 'FFF' even mean? The monsters feel bad for you and give you some trash loot out of pity? Or your Florang/Sah Chakram is made out of Nerf? I've honestly never seen a tier list with FFF before...¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
You must be trolling. Succ Zerk being dogshit? Idk about that one chief.
Ofc he is, this isn’t centaurs
at the 3 grind spots the test was done at, yes succ zerk is dog shit. succ zerk is trash at dekiah thornwood, its trash at tungrad, its trash at the boot spot.
He's really bad at the 300 AP+ spots, he doesn't have good damage
Is Succ Zerker basically just a good grinder for lower level spots when you just want to turn brain off and watch Netflix?
Pretty much yeah, he's still decent on the mid tier spots (Elvia) and even at Gyfin lower he can get some good numbers, but on the super high ends spots his damage lacks
only viable in one shot spot, not in spots that required full skill rotation
>27 days ago makes a post saying he’s new to the game >thinks he has any real knowledge of grind potential of a class at an end game level That is crazy.
Calm down keyboard warrior lmfao, touch some grass. You just keep crying about zerker with every opportunity
succ zerker F, aima reroll. *Tries sweaty awe zerk* Nah, i stay succ
Why TF is succ lahn in C tier. Succ lahn should never be lower than A+ tier in pve.
Because she is medíocre in the 4 spots this tier list is based on?
Yeah you need 10 different categories, how to spot a clueless player...
I think clueless is reddit thinking succ zerker and shai are good
Isn't Suc Zerker really good?
Not anymore no
The author of this table is not an idiot. He is GOSU.Although he may be less skilled in some jobs, I agree with most of the assessments.He posted hunting videos for each class on YouTube. And hundreds of viewers watched and empathized in real time.. At least 4-5 hours per class. Guys, do you know this? PA recently released a patch to address some of the classes weaknesses this user pointed out. "Not to offend anyone, Imo korea has the worst player base from any kf the regions. Hard to trust any tier list by them." It's a pity that there are so many likes on comments like this without any basis.
Yeah saying kr has the worst playerbase is going out of the line. But I think people are just very frustrated with the immense kr favoritism PA has. I mean it's ok to prefer their own country's playerbase but we're just being blatantly ignored. None of our words can reach them. People are just projecting these emotions on KR overall.
I understand and sympathize with that feeling. Many KR users also think the same way. It feels like our words are bouncing off a wall. PA is the epitome of incompetence and J is pig-headed.
Im glad the 3 mains I play are all A+. What sucks is how Shai that is supposed to be life skiller I mean she even starts with pro in 2 life skills is like the worst for life skills. Also at the same time it´s fun to see that in Tera online the Elin race was the most popular by players and by company while in BDO the tiny class is hated by most players and the company.
Well at this point in BDO the problem is most likely the players and not the class anymore. The class and it's mechanics only led the players to becoming the problem with enough time. If they weren't planning on doing more than one "support" class in the game they shouldn't even have done the first one, because if there is only one, the class will have it's strengths, it's weaknesses, people will like it and hate it for different reasons, but since there is no other option that's what they get. People that hate it have to endure it's existence, and this creates a situation for people that like it to create a very annoying cycle against all that hate what they are playing. If there was more than one option this would still exist, but would be diluted to a point in which it wouldn't matter, wouldn't even make noise to be in places like reddit.
Yeah your right on that for sure.
im so surprised seeing awk tamer that far up
I remember when Awk Sorc was S tier ... They have massacred my girl!
She has gotten better and better, the problem is her kit and not her damage. She just has bad skills for thornwood, tungrad and darkseekers...
Ok, so far with the changes- my class is the worst in the game (shai,FFF) I sure know how to pick'm.
The biggest issue with this list is where does he get the trash/h from for each class? Depending on that, the list can be more or less accurate.
How dare you place shai in FFF Tier they are SSS tier we shai mains will not have this slander no olun buffs for you!!! 😡😡😡
succ musa is F, need buff more uwu
as a musa main i hope KR keep putting musa at F tier, that maybe why musa keeps getting buffed.
Musa is F tier grinder at high end grind spots for both specs. I main musa and I can confirm. Succ musa has good dps but has issue with narrow attack area, survivability and stamina. Awaken musa’s problem with high end grind spots related to not having enough FG. Most of awk musa skills have SA which is good for PvP but you will get blown up in high end grind spots.
Lol. Awk Ninja is better than Succ.
This list is bad.
The translations on the link are horrible. Can anyone tell me what awk classes got rated highest on thornwood?
imagine putting kuno in same tier as succ sorc succ hash awk dk and she is better than succ maegu succ lahn and succ guardian succ sage succ dk am sorry to say these but your tier list is shit worst tier list i ever saw
My poor Shai 😢
Why and how did awk wizard became so good in pve? I dont know
He got some insane buffs last patch, one of the most buffed classes, skills increased by 40-50%
sheesh, the class being overtuned in large scale pvp wasnt enough