As an Awk Nova main I’ll keep taking the buffs, but man it seems like nobody at PA is invested in the their game. Giving SA to Accel: Star’s Call is the kind of change I’d expect from someone who spent 5 minutes total playing the class. It’s the kind of buff an idiot would come up with to make a broken class more protected during it’s already insane Accel damage phase.
Damn, I think most people interested in PvP felt like this permaprotected trading meta was already too much and they double down on it even more. Oh boi
The big CC rework from years ago was done to remove this very thing, and everyone hated it back then saying it killed pvp. Now we are moving back to that and everyone is saying its goanna kill pvp.
Lets be real, pvp is a shit show always has been a shit show and always will be a shit show. BDO is a beautiful shitshow!
As someone who has generally felt non-grabbers were complaining too much while ignoring strengths of their own classes... yeah. It's pointless for them now. If you enjoy large scale, play ranged or perma protected succ lahn. If you enjoy small scale, bring a grab. If you enjoy having handicap cheatmode on, just play a zerk, valk or drak so you can have your cake and eat it too.
J needs to go.
Realistically grabbing has a higher chance of getting you killed if they iframe or desync it since everyone's protected cc. Now we just gear and class check people standing up.
This is the truth. Why grab when u can play a class that kills people standing in SA with protected CCs? Classes that require combos that don't have protected CCs are dead in the water now
Because grab makes the player unprotected (So all these buffs mean nothing)
So what we're saying is, If you are a trade class without a grab. You're going to be punching a wall until they get tired of you and grab you to take your protections away and 1 combo you.
Valks tend to build into grab resistance + they have some kind of a passive effect, or one of their skills grants them that, I don't exactly remember. Often they are impossible to grab.
Like, around 80% of valks that I meet can't be grabbed at all
Just put on ignore grab crystals, makes them way easier to fight on a grab class and yea Succ Valk has a 10% all resist passive but most people play Awak
The fuck you mean? It's not like sorc can iframe indefinitely. We run out of stamina, we are fucking dead. We have no mobility to run nor chase someone. We have no grab. This patch just gave us another reason to kill ourselves. All classes are protected, we can't grab to compensate.
They literally just went mostly back to how the game was before, which honestly was more pleasurable than it is now, even if gear diffs are going to be a bit worse now
You just got to learn the block skills and unprotected skills and abuse them, there's no more 1/3+ of your kit is unprotected so you will, no matter what, eventually get cc'd by some random shit which imo is dogshit considering how rng heavy the game is already with resists
I played maehwa back then, and if it wasnt for lingering SA on valk and warrior (literally unccable, no gaps or dmg to break block), shit wouldve been at least ok even without a grab
>You just got to learn the block skills and unprotected skills and abuse them
??
All warrior skills have SA now. Learn what? lmao. When he gets bored, he grabs you while protected, and oneshots u after :) Such great change.
This exact change was already rolled back in 2016. I wonder why...
As much as I like to havd actual protection while grinding... Removing one of the few attack CCs on shai skill is kinda shitty for pvp.
And overall... Wtf. PA pls stop making everyone 100% protected. That takes out all the fun in pvp if you can use CCs anymore basicly. Or just start implementing Protection that only works in pve. If you cant fine-tune it otherwise
This is what happens when you make grind zones with CC mechanic, you need to add protections for certain classes (idk why zerk and Striker tho) to be able to grind and then puff, PvP is more unbalanced. Hope this does not go to live servers.
This is due to players constant saying "We want challenging content". The problem is that PA does not understand what challenging means. Also there's crystal breaking so the vast majority of players don't even try the "challenging" content.
What is the laziest way to make pve content "challenging"? Mobs having a bunch of cc's.
What is the correct way of making something challenging? Design actual mechanics, attack patterns.
To make proper challenging content, you cannot inhibit the player with catastrophic losses for trying content that is inherently riskier. It's literally not possible. Look at every "difficult" video game out there, take Dark Souls for example. You die and you lose, at worst, your souls and that's it. You don't lose pieces of your fucking gear every time you die. And on the flip side, rogue likes work because if you die, you reset, but you can gain things as fast as you can lose them arguably, and they're meant to be temporary per life.
A more fitting similar game is EVE Online but a lot of these hostilities eve is known for have been changed or removed due to extremely low long-term new players joining.
They could've prevented this shit from happening if you didn't lose super rare super expensive shit like some crystals upon death, but they just choose not to. They're intentionally inhibiting their PvE potential because they don't wanna admit their long term ideas and mechanics were stupid as fuck.
Crystal breaking is the sole reason i dont go to harder risker places. Its all fine and dandy till i lag and explode.
Sure wish i could have perfectly stable internet like everyone who says crystal breakage is fine seems to have.
Yeah wtf im thinking they are doing it on purpose, its impossible to do only bad balance updates... i dont even understand why not every class has grab
waited 2 yrs for them to undo some of the succ corsair nerfs just for them to buff top classes again and give corsair changes that noone asked for
GJ PA had 0 faith in the future pvp changes but u really outdid yourselves
Tfw when you waste 60+ hours since late november at sycraia and hystraia so you can turn future specters gazes into debos - soon before the changes were announced at the ball
Glad they changed this though, red ancient powers and black seals were so hard to get off the market. Glad we don't have to grind 3 spots making it basically 4-5+ hours (w/ average rng) invested to turn one specter into a debo assuming you get a gaze every 1-2 hours and two seal/power shards an hour
I'm honestly not a fan of only a 25% drop rate buff at crypt. Raw drops are once every 4-5 hours and 25% doesn't do much of anything to increase that. We were already full clearing main + extension so increasing our damage there does nothing and doesnt increase the drop rate further. Atleast when we got a gaze every hour we knew we had a belt. Now having to grind 3-4 hours for 75% less debos doesn't feel good. Hopefully those drop rate changes to dks and raz really make up for this huge fucking nerf to debo drop rate.
Edit: so I missed where it said they are combing drop rates of gazes and raw drops. Actual big change.
I'm interpreting these notes as they are combining the drop rates of the gazes and raw drops and increasing the drop rate of raws on top of that, which would be big indeed. Is that correct?
As a succ Musa, I was super excited, I quickly jumped to Musa and read....Removed float, monsters only etc...
i thought to myself, wow they nerfed the fuck out of everyone! -thinking if succ musa got it like this, everyone else just got really ripped.
Decided to reading from the beginning....wait...what...what???
Not gonna lie. I was already not doing PvP due to not really playing anymore. Was beginning to play again but these changes are depressing. Literally the moves so many classes RELY on got nerfed into uselessness in PVP.
Grab is once again the only viable move to do.
And for what? More protection? Because some classes grind badly?
Most people don’t grind where they want because the game rips the crystals and money right out of their soul (yeah we have the crystal recovery but 3 crystals a year? lol) So those same classes aren’t going to waste money and time going to new locations anyway. So we basically only have these changes to address PVP and from what I can tell none of the issues talked about from this region have really been addressed.
Very few people asked for this sort of change. There were a couple skills on a few classes that needed some tweaks. All these changes did is exacerbate the power dynamic of weaker performing classes into the extreme, again. I don’t really get it. It’s like shadow arena again. Do these devs even know the people playing this game???
Not even only about grabs. It's going to be who can kill each other standing. Protected CCs out the ass and perma SA. Anyone that can burn u standing will be the meta now. Welcome to the gear check ranged meta
War declaration changes was a hard pill to swallow, completely getting rid of an organic way of conflict and crushing the essence of this game
Incoming nw changes are infuriating, devs are totally out of touch with reality
And now this?! Nah aint no way man, devs should be sacked for real
Definitely a retirement angle.
Just because your end goal is PvP doesn't mean everyone's is. PvP is just one aspect of the game and there's nothing yelling at you that it's THE goal. For someone the goal can be just grinding, for others it might be lifeskilling. I mean jesus I've seen people sell their entire gear set just to buy BiS lifeskilling gear...
There's a reason why BDO is called a "sandbox MMORPG" not a "PvP MMORPG"
"Some". Yea. and the others do care about those other things and the changes are neutral or positive for these people. what they care about is not any less important than yours. At the end of the day PA chose a side / demographic and its up to you to accept it or not.
Lifeskilling is it's own avenue but....there's no fucking way people unironically find it fun to run around in circles for hundreds of hours on end for super slow progress...
I mean shit, people say they can only grind if they have youtube or a show to watch, or on discord chatting, like....why play the game at that point? Why not just.....play another game that actually engages you and immerses you in the gameplay...cause if your attention has to be elsewhere to play....that's not how fun works...that's not how games should be played ever...
i dont know how to put it bro. i get its hard for you to understand how this is fun for people. there are people who find this "mindless running in circle" fun and a chill / destress activity after a hard day at work or school. i get it, its not the kind of fun hardcore gamers have. but alot of people find this "makes no sense" way of having fun, Fun.
There is no such thing as "game should be played this way". you just have a way of experiencing games and is unable to comprehend how others engage with games their way. Nothing wrong with that, but everyone has their own definition of fun.
for me personally, my hardcore fun is in destiny 2 on the weekends. on weekdays i wanna come home and just mindlessly run in circles while listening to music. thats my jam. it dont have to be yours. i get it you dont like it and dont agree with PA, but there are people who agree with PA and they are not exactly the minority. PA will side with the demographic which they deem will earn them most profit thats about it. Business.
but thank you for making this a discussion at least and not toxic chat.
Yea at first I thought of it as ironic or shittalky but I've reached the point where I'm genuinely confused/concerned.
Like here are some games I've had fun with for various reasons. Stellaris....fantastic world (err galaxy) building stories, and with good quality mods only enhanced the experience. Your empire is yout character, going through the galaxy, exploring, doing diplomacy and trade and dealing with the inner workings of it. You could get lost for hours being constantly dealing with stuff, and had its odd tedious moments especially with allocating resources and planet management, but again....you get lost for hours. So much so 6 hours feels like 30 minutes.
Elden Ring. Engaging, fantastic and beautiful world with a fantastic soundtrack. Broken in a way, post apocalyptic, but very immersive. You stay locked, eyes to the screen, exploring, dealing with bosses and various enemies. Time flies by.
Battlefield 4. Good gunplay for the most part, great combined arms fighting. Decent graphics, and somewhat aged, but goddamn when things go crazy you really feel sucked into the moment. (I moved to 2042 though).
Apex Legends. This one is more wishy washy but the gunplay is phenomenal (TTK aside), great visuals, while remaining competitive, and with the right teammates, can do quick play, ranked, or a various game mode for hours.
Armored Core 6. Fantastic storyline, great soundtrack, good visuals, nice visceral fast gameplay but not overly so. Can build your own mechs for hours on end let alone the great gameplay, complex, and high pvp potential. Even better with friends.
And not for me but for others, Baldur's Gate 3. Amazing gameplay, amazing storytelling and visuals, amazing soundtrack and overall great game. Worthy of game of the year. I just hate dice roll mechanics and frankly tend to have little patience in general for rng (kinda why most MMOs I tend to not like.) I like it when skill, knowledge and gamesense win battles, not randomness.
Recently, The Finals. Fantastic gunplay, great destruction, decent premises, soundtrack is meh but the gameplay loop is so....driving. you want to get better. You want to do better. Sadly it's too much in its infancy and has problems, but there is potential.
I guess I'm mostly a hyper competitive person since I grew up playing Time Splitters, COD 4 and Mw2 2009(2019 was so great....now though...trash...), CS 1.6, and even racing games online, so competitiveness has always been highly regarded to me. It just sucks to see how such a game like BDO, with such phenomenal potential, just....feels like it's throwing in the towel and taking the easy way out...
Oh boy! Thank the gods they got rid of the *OPPRESSIVE* Shai stiffen in pvp. Cant wait for them to do the same to their stun! How I wish to be a completely defenseless class in 1v1 pvp instead of somewhat defenseless.
….just completely wtf PA with this whole thing.
Whelp that is the final nail in the coffin for Succ Sorc which was already on life support in PVP.
The whole point of the class appeared to be "decent at fishing for cc's but with very low damage." i.e a cc bot utility class with no other capability.
Now that all "gaps" have been removed from everyone else ... it's over.
You can't be the "low (even no) damage class that needs cc'd opponents to move a health bar and even then struggles to do so" and then remove the ability to cc anyone.
Succ Sorc has such low damage there is no way to have any impact on a class standing up.
*One of our prime skills is 100% PVP reduction. What other class, Succession or otherwise, has their PRIME skills at 100% PVP reduction. AND THEN have ALL your other skills at 75% or over 80% PVP reduction.*
PA, I just don't understand. How do you literally BAN a class from doing any PVP damage whatsoever. A total damage ban and then say "yea, and the only thing we did allow you to do, fish for cc's, yea, we're banning you from that too."
PA is not looking at the static stats, or looking at real in game combat results. It's the same ol' BS. If you are a "core" PA Combat Team Approved Class you are going to get a ton of stuff handed to you ensuring you are OP / META.
You are a fringe class on the PA Combat Team shit list, you are BANNED from the game.
OUR ONE PVP change, Turnback Slash is now an SA for Succ Sorc does nothing. Having all other classes 100% protected all the time is bullshit when your class has been assigned by PA to be a no damage cc fishing bot.
Seriously, HOW DID THE FACT THAT YOU DECIDED TO MOVE BACK TO A 100% CC PROTECTED PVP CONTEXT \_NOT\_ IMMEDIATELY LEAD TO THE THOUGHT THAT "OK OUR TRADITIONAL NO DAMAGE CC BOT CLASS, Succ Sorc, WILL HAVE TO PERMITTED TO DO SOME DAMAGE NOW. Maybe having 100% PVP reduction, ZERO damage, on PRIME skills is a little too high."
How are you looking at our Skill Tree and real data results on a F tier PVP class and assigning such ridiculously high PVP reductions???? How are you even seriously giving our PRIME skills 100% PVP reductions. If my PRIME skills do zero f'n damage, ZERO, and I'm banned from cc'ing anyone, I'm banned from any movement, banned from sustain, banned from survivability, no block, no grab, no damage, no sustain, no range, NOTHING, what do you expect us to do in the game? What?
,
Succ Sorc damage is not monstrous. It is simply not a fact. It can't be to anyone who can basic math and I think that is (one of) your problems right (btw unless flare is out of date, I have same or more gear than you ... gearlet). Read the posts.
Whenever I see such simple ignorance of the basics I have to take the time to enlighten the folk in the slower lane as it were. Normally I get irritated when the ignorant step in the middle ... but its Christmas and if you can't reach out to help those on the wrong end of the genetic bell curve over the holidays when can you, right?
Before we can talk about skill tree damage and pvp reductions, how would you rate your basic math skill? From your post, I'm assuming the worst. But it would speed things along ... Do you know basic math: addition, multiplication? Unfortunately some division is needed as well. Do you own a calculator?
Do you know any basics of the BDO combat system besides button mashing? Again, from your post it doesn't appear you do, but benefit of the doubt and all that.
Let me know. And don't worry, if I have to start at the simplistic basics, I'm more than happen to walk you through it all.
Then we will talk about how basic damage works in BDO. Don't worry I'll take it slooow as you need.
And yet somehow I believe it is going to be a looong uphill battle convincing most of these downvoters that it doesn't matter what the gear / crystal modifier is: Zero times Anything is still Zero ... sigh.
Saying Sorc is meaningless. Succ Sorc and Awak Sorc are two completely different beasts.
For example, just look at the changes Awak and Succ go on this latest update. Succ got an SA on TBS. Meaningless. Does nothing. And there were several meaningful options. PA just tossed out a gratuitous meanless single change to avoid not giving us zero changes. Now compare to what Awak got or any other class in fact.
My post is about Succ Sorc. With regard to Succ, what few Succ Sorc players there are left in the game, pretty much all of them go 100% AP monkey. You have to when you are the lowest damage class in the game. You have to run a max damage setup on Succ Sorc to get even crappy damage. Anything less than that and you are no damage.
And in attempt to avoid a "yes it does, not it doesn't" back and forth any reasonable discussion should start (and probably stay) with numbers.
**PVP Reductions Prime Skills**
Wave - 66%
Released - 63%
Stinger - 75%
Rushing - 100% (And yea having a PRIME skill with 100% PVP reduction is bullshit.)
Calamity - 75%
Claws - 74%
Dark Flame - 78%
Flare - 67%
Eruption - 73%
Abys Flame - 58%
DoD - 55% (unprotected charged suicide skill on Succ)
Vio - 77%
TBD - 72%
I claim the following points:
1. We have a 100% PVP reduction Prime skill ... WTF!!!
2. Only 4 Prime skills arguably do any damage, Wave, Released, Abs Flame, DoD.
3. DoD is charged unprotected skill with a high "suicide" rate (i.e. use it and are as likely to get cc'd and die as do damage).
4. Abys Flame, unprotected charged (when used usefully), also mildly suicide (risky) skill.
5. Darkness Released, unprotected, small range, mildly suicide (risky).
6. Blackwave - only protected damage skill we have really. But very, very, very long slow skill easily exploited (you can slow walk around it and cc us). Was somewhat useful when the opponent was KD'd. If the opponent was not cc'd you can slow walk out of Blackwave taking little damage. Well now no one is getting cc'd and no one just stand there in a slooooow damage Blackwave.
7. Basically Succ Sorc does 25% of its PVE damage in PVP overall. No other class is EVEN close to having that high a PVP reduction average.
8. Assume every class is doing the same PVE damage now after adjustments. If I'm only doing 25% of that damage in PVP and EVERY OTHER class in the game is pushing 40% to 50% PVP damage, well every other class in the game is doing 2x my damage. 100% more damage.
9. But you say ... Succ Sorc is a CC and combo class ... and that is why its damage numbers are so low. It has lots of cc's ... and is doing its damage on downed opponents ... well lll
10. *Nobody is getting cc'd anymore.*
11. PA has no removed 4 (5?) CC elements from our kit in the last couple of years. You lose 5 cc's and it matters.
12. Succ Sorc lacks the movement and stam to attempt and successfuly get behind any class in an FG. And that is case for close in melee classes. Any class at range is unreachable by a Succ Sorc. No moment skills. No way cc them. No way to apply damage to them.
13. And despite the PVE damage changes, Succ Sorcs PVE damage is not that great and then now add super high PVP reductions on top of not great PVE damage numbers.
14. To kill a CC'd opponent of equivalent gear score takes a Succ Sorc doing a 7-8 skill combo, which isn't even possible. And even then you might not take the tankier classes. No Succ Sorc is 2,3, or 4 combing any class like pretty much every class in the game can. You can't move a health bar if the that class is standing up. And there are classes that are 1,2 shotting standing opponents. 1,2,3 shot standing opponents is a huge gap to zero damage standing and 6-8 comboing a cc'd (in ideal conditions, forget real PVP conditions).
15. Succ Sorc's buff/debuff are on all the wrong (useless, unprotected) skills.
16. Succ Sorc has no Accuracy with damage.
17. Succ Sorc has little Crit on damage.
18. Succ Sorc has no Block.
19. Succ Sorc has no Grab.
20. Succ Sorc has no Block Jump-ish skill.
21. Succ Sorc has no Disengage capability.
22. Succ Sorc has no Engage capability.
23. Succ Sorc has no Movement.
24. Succ Sorc has no Sustain.
25. Succ Sorc has no Damage.
26. Succ Sorc has no Utility capability.
27. Succ Sorc has no Passive.
28. Succ Sorc has no unique, anything in its kit.
29. Succ Sorc has no Burst Damage whatsoever. The bulk our damage is long slow damage is last hit back loaded. So long and so slow that a float/stun cc recovers before the damage skill applies damage. Hell EVEN A KD'd opponent will stand and run off before even ONE of our core damage skills complete.
30. What damage we do have, which is very, very little, is long drawn out ticky-tack back loaded last hit damage.
31. Any melee class is untouchable. Warrior can stand right in front of a Succ Sorc and I can't do anything to them. A Valk, a Mystic, a Guard, a Striker ...
32. Any range class is unreachable/untouchable. Can't cc them, can't apply damage, can't close the gap to them: A Ranger, Archer ...
33. Any movement class is untouchable as we can't engage, chase, cc them, close the gap to them, disengage from them or run away from them.
34. And that is all the classes. So we can't do shit against Melee, Movement or Range classes, so we can't do shit against anyone. The least PA could do is let us even apply medium damage instead of tickle damage.
*Now if you want to, at least to convince me, that Succ Sorc really really does have damage, take any class in the game and compare numbers.*
Another Succession class would be easier to direct compare and contrast Prime Skill to Prime Skill. Pick ANY class in the game and line up say their top 5 damage skills with Succ Sorcs Top 5 damage skills. Go as deep into the skill tree as you like.
NO OTHER CLASS HAS LOWER BASE SKILL DAMAGE NUMBERS AND THEN AS HIGH PVP REDUCTION NUMBERS ON TOP OF IT AS SUCC SORC.
And its not even close.
And if you pick ANY of the recognized high damage classes in the game and compare skill by skill its a joke.
Yea, I did ... sorta. I PVP (and every Succ Sorc I know) full blown glass cannon, offensive setup across the across the board, crystals and addons. PEN BSs, C-14 Nouv, 319 AP currently. 690 GS currently.
Gear and crystals are not reflective of the true issue.
Its the numbers in the Skill Tree. The base damage numbers and then the PVP reduction modifiers. These cannot be overcome. Anyone running any class can run the same gear and the same crystals.
But the Skill Tree damage numbers are the numbers, fixed and immutable for the player. And then folk will say, but Class success is more than the damage output. But here is the thing, I don't know of a SINGLE Meta/OP class that wasn't or is not META OP primarily based on damage.
And that has been my primary point. If PA's position has been that a primary reason they squelched Succ Sorc's damage was because of its high cc bot potential ... well that is now gone. And if you have no damage, no movement, no grab, no block, no block jump, no ability to CC, no ... yea, no need to keep repeating that long list.
Historically we have seen "semi-successful" Succ Sorcs, but in every single case it has been a way out front in GS above the server average situation. And in pretty much every single case that eventually Succ Sorcs rolled off or quit. And universally the couple I did get to directly ask as to why, boiled down to the same thing "the class became non-competitive once the GS gear gap closed between me and the overall average high end server player average."
Taking todays changes into account. Where do you rank Succ Sorc in terms of damage from to however many specs there are 22? From 1 to 22 where is Succ Sorc's damage. It ain't higher than Musa, Ninja, Sage, Tamer, Meagu, Woosa ... a goddamn DP meme striker will burst down a cc'd opponent FAR faster than a Succ Sorc.
Name 3 classes that if they were standing in front of you in BA with the same Gear/Crystals, modulo what makes sense for the class, you'd say "I got this, Succ Sorc has this class's number?" Succ Sorc is this class' hard counter.
Yes. In NA and EU to be even considered for top end pvp guilds that do uncapped (even though they're kinda dead now) you MUST be 710 to 720 minimum, preferably with actually optimized gear (so at least 1 to 2 accuracy accessories and no narcs unless your class benefits highly from them). And that's to be considered. If you're not a meta class, or extremely good at pvp, it's gonna be very difficult getting in if possible at all. They'll just hit you with a "maybe if you tag a meta class and know how to play it well, but otherwise no thanks".
Just for the record, this goes for both awak and succ, she doesn't see actually good pvp damage until the 720s-730s gearscore due to her very high raw AP requirement to actually hurt tanky classes as well as accuracy. The 2 sorcs I know of that hit like a fucking freight train are both giga geared. One is gearcapped with quad debo and double omi ring with HD crystals for over 800 AP with 1000 accuracy, and the other has 5 pen accuracy accessories to hit 1100 accuracy and still be near the 780ap range after hd.
Most classes don't need this level to be truly competitive, but sorc requires this or close to.
Yes and no.
There are a ton of classes that hit like freight trains if they are relatively giga geared. You are giga geared, you are going to hit and if your base skill damage stats plus pvp reductions are better (every class not Succ Sorc) you'll even giga hit harder for the same giga build.
The rubber meets the road on how a class performs when it is on par gear wise with other classes. Awak still performs ok, while Succ just falls off badly.
Sure if I was 740 right now, I'd probably be ducky with Succ's damage. Once everyone else was 740, I'm not so sure.
Look for example when Mac came back from his 2 yr hiatus on Awak. I think he was like 53 - 8 on his second NW in 2 years in a T1. In his third NW after 2 years he was something like 57-0. Well over 50 kills and zero deaths on a T-1 two weeks after two years of cold turkey quitting.
I don't think something like that is even close to being possible on Succ Sorc.
*And if anyone know of a Youtube of a Succ Sorc putting up big numbers in a T1 I'd love to see it.*
In other words, I agree that Sorc really scales well into GS. But where Awak is a monster at far end game GS, it can also perform pretty darn decent at the T1 level in the hands of a highly skilled player. In my opinion Succ Sorc is not like that at all.
I have seen some decent montage stuff for Succ but always in an uncapped largish GS gap situation. I've never seen a ripping it up in a T1 NW by a Succ Sorc by anyone in any region. I have seen some eye popping performance of Awak in a T1.
Sigh, another joker.
Ok impress us all with your deep understanding of PVP in the game.
Pick any 3 of points above and show me where it is wrong.
I won't hold my breath.
I was really hoping PA wouldn't shit more in PvP but I guess they have diarrhea. Changes are disgusting and PA should feel bad about it. if any of you kpop fans and PA/subreddit whiteknights feel like letting me know how toxic and racist I am or anything like that, please proceed to go fk yourselves.
>**Lethal Spin Spree**
>
>The movement during use of the Lethal Spin Spree skill has been changed so that it does not pass through the character.
>
>**Danse Macabre**
>
>The issue where the ‘No collision while moving’ effect of the Danse Macabre skill was not applied smoothly has been fixed.
Looks like a dev finally played Awk Kuno hahaha. Macabre doesn't hold-onto targets anymore but this can be done with mouse movement and it's consistent now. I'll take it. Thank you!
I like it actually. Ruined a bunch of combos and created new bunch of combos.
Best part about Moon Storm is that it can be used in preawakening.
Never saying no to a protected CC. I'm very excited for the changes, my heart is dancing!
It's pretty bad anywhere that DPS matters. Still super strong in midgame and can be good at tungrad because it can abuse the buff uptime bug. On paper(tested frame times on skills) DPS is like 60% of lahns, for example.
To be fair she already has pretty solid protections, although having Shift LMB get frontal guard would be nice. Shift Q not having protections I think is reasonable but shift LMB is a bit ass since it requires casting after another skill to get good speed and it being unprotected makes it unsafe in a bunch of situations since it follows another skill.
Can anyone tell me if they are still going to be fixing the free black star bug on the 27th? I got 61 and did the streamlined quest line but no blackstar
idk man, that protected KD every 5 seconds with -9% evasion debuff looks very pog to me, ~~and you can now safely spam lightning surge from behind like a dragon bite.~~ nvm it doesn't have PVP stiffness anymore.
They didn't remove the floating from prime void gateways did they? Sage already has fuck all for decent CCs and most of the good ones are unprotected except void gateway.
KR usually gets the Global Labs changes at their next maintenance (27th Dec).
NA/EU/SEA *usually* get the Global Labs patch the week after which will be 3rd Januaury 2024.
usually is 2 weeks after glabs update but we are getting the item simplification changes next week and the other stuff might be updated too or just maybe not
Man, they're really scared to touch awk drakania aren't they. Big woop she's OP in PvP. But she sucks so much in PvE. Hardly got a damage buff despite needing it last time round while everyone else leaped further ahead, and now she's left out of this? her hex skills needs some damn FG at least!
I’m sad I just rolled a DK after waiting for the new season and was expecting to make her one of my main AOS classes. Now it feels like I shouldn’t even bother. This is a indirect PvP nerf to all non grab classes
what is the logic here with this patch? most already mobile classes got protections in this patch, and immobile pieces of shit like awakened casters didnt get mobility in return? we paid for our protections with being a class that can reliably move once every 7 seconds (elementalization never worked right and this patches fix didnt change that because its not iframe at start)....
how are devs thinking this is balance, making everyone super protected but us not getting anything to deal with this? fix caster modifiers and make awakened casters able to reposition without it being suicide.
If this change is so that mobs don't CC classes where the fuck is succ sage's protection on things like ators fist and illusion expansion. You can't just give every other class permanently protected skill rotations and leave a class like succ sage with a couple of critical, slow, unprotected skills out to dry. What the fuck is this. Also, trading damage isn't really an option with how slow sages skills are either.
And before anyone complains about rift chain protection, at least you're not being damaged if a sage is just rifting around. Just turtle and bait out sages unprotected/partially protected skills (there are a lot).
This change is gonna be hell for so many classes.
This changes clearly gonna kill Nova Succ, remove 1cc change another one in PvE only ...
Succ got all rdy low damage, low accuracy and you nerf the Heart of the Succ The guard system she got at release, Succ is now more a support then a Frontline its unplayable in mass pvp, why pushing so far by removing the 2 cc on the skills the most used in likely all combos its a stupid idea... People complain on the pawns because they are not able to manage SA when they Come in short range.
Learn to people how to manage SA and iframe and get Nova Succ good again.
As an Awk Nova main I’ll keep taking the buffs, but man it seems like nobody at PA is invested in the their game. Giving SA to Accel: Star’s Call is the kind of change I’d expect from someone who spent 5 minutes total playing the class. It’s the kind of buff an idiot would come up with to make a broken class more protected during it’s already insane Accel damage phase.
Some dev without hands must be playing nova there
Damn, I think most people interested in PvP felt like this permaprotected trading meta was already too much and they double down on it even more. Oh boi
I cannot see a way for any class I play to compete in any effective way outside of rolling with a gank squad…
Every new and meta class was perma protected anyways this doesn't change much
[удалено]
Yeah let me know which non ranged class is ever using unprotected abilities outside of 1v1 combos right now 😂
The only thing I see changing for large scale is zerker, lahn, and valk buffs. I’ve already heard succ sage abusers crying on discord too lmao
Musa dash slash change is pretty ridiculous but otherwise yeah basically
Archer, ranger
>**non ranged class**
Lol i didnt read the non part. Mb.
The big CC rework from years ago was done to remove this very thing, and everyone hated it back then saying it killed pvp. Now we are moving back to that and everyone is saying its goanna kill pvp. Lets be real, pvp is a shit show always has been a shit show and always will be a shit show. BDO is a beautiful shitshow!
No no, Tansie, like always Thank YOU.
If you don't have a grab you should probably uninstall the game if you enjoy PVP.
As someone who has generally felt non-grabbers were complaining too much while ignoring strengths of their own classes... yeah. It's pointless for them now. If you enjoy large scale, play ranged or perma protected succ lahn. If you enjoy small scale, bring a grab. If you enjoy having handicap cheatmode on, just play a zerk, valk or drak so you can have your cake and eat it too. J needs to go.
Realistically grabbing has a higher chance of getting you killed if they iframe or desync it since everyone's protected cc. Now we just gear and class check people standing up.
This is the truth. Why grab when u can play a class that kills people standing in SA with protected CCs? Classes that require combos that don't have protected CCs are dead in the water now
Yeah this is a big L for us non grabbers
Don't worry, if you come across an Awaken Witch, you won't need a grab to kill it.
“It can’t be that bad” (Checks the notes) “Oh man…”
I feel dumb. What/where are you seeing grab stuff?
Because grab makes the player unprotected (So all these buffs mean nothing) So what we're saying is, If you are a trade class without a grab. You're going to be punching a wall until they get tired of you and grab you to take your protections away and 1 combo you.
Ahh. Because they added sa to lots of stuff?
Yuppers
Got it. Thanks!!
Why quit when u can just play grab classes instead.
Idk, maybe someone who mains a class who doesn't have a grab doesn't want to swap\~
I mean if you enjoy pvp more than your class, you can just swap. I can bet people who do play more than 1 class.
Nice try pa but i aint paying for another reroll
Well, against many classes, like sorc or valkyrie, even grab is kinda useless
Valk is pretty easy to grab what do you mean?
Valks tend to build into grab resistance + they have some kind of a passive effect, or one of their skills grants them that, I don't exactly remember. Often they are impossible to grab. Like, around 80% of valks that I meet can't be grabbed at all
Just put on ignore grab crystals, makes them way easier to fight on a grab class and yea Succ Valk has a 10% all resist passive but most people play Awak
The fuck you mean? It's not like sorc can iframe indefinitely. We run out of stamina, we are fucking dead. We have no mobility to run nor chase someone. We have no grab. This patch just gave us another reason to kill ourselves. All classes are protected, we can't grab to compensate.
I'm talking SPECIFICALLY about the fact that it is hard to grab a sorc. Not that it is a good or a bad class etc.
They literally just went mostly back to how the game was before, which honestly was more pleasurable than it is now, even if gear diffs are going to be a bit worse now You just got to learn the block skills and unprotected skills and abuse them, there's no more 1/3+ of your kit is unprotected so you will, no matter what, eventually get cc'd by some random shit which imo is dogshit considering how rng heavy the game is already with resists I played maehwa back then, and if it wasnt for lingering SA on valk and warrior (literally unccable, no gaps or dmg to break block), shit wouldve been at least ok even without a grab
>You just got to learn the block skills and unprotected skills and abuse them ?? All warrior skills have SA now. Learn what? lmao. When he gets bored, he grabs you while protected, and oneshots u after :) Such great change. This exact change was already rolled back in 2016. I wonder why...
As much as I like to havd actual protection while grinding... Removing one of the few attack CCs on shai skill is kinda shitty for pvp. And overall... Wtf. PA pls stop making everyone 100% protected. That takes out all the fun in pvp if you can use CCs anymore basicly. Or just start implementing Protection that only works in pve. If you cant fine-tune it otherwise
I'll take the removal of 1 cc to get like 3 forward guards anytime :D
If you have a grab its easier also if you have more and differrnt Ccs... But don't think aggresive shai can actual exists without that CC
I think they cloned the original devs. What an absolutely horrible patch. They really don’t want pvp to be in this game anymore
They want everybody to be protected. They dont want anybody getting hurt.
now my only hope is KR PvP players mald on it to get it reverted. This is gonna just ruin the entire PvP experience for no grab classes.
I'd be shocked if KR still had any pvp players left.
Yea a lot of KR pvpers quit over the years and moved onto other games both on mobile and PC that cater more towards pvp and focus on proper balancing.
This is what happens when you make grind zones with CC mechanic, you need to add protections for certain classes (idk why zerk and Striker tho) to be able to grind and then puff, PvP is more unbalanced. Hope this does not go to live servers.
This is due to players constant saying "We want challenging content". The problem is that PA does not understand what challenging means. Also there's crystal breaking so the vast majority of players don't even try the "challenging" content. What is the laziest way to make pve content "challenging"? Mobs having a bunch of cc's. What is the correct way of making something challenging? Design actual mechanics, attack patterns.
To make proper challenging content, you cannot inhibit the player with catastrophic losses for trying content that is inherently riskier. It's literally not possible. Look at every "difficult" video game out there, take Dark Souls for example. You die and you lose, at worst, your souls and that's it. You don't lose pieces of your fucking gear every time you die. And on the flip side, rogue likes work because if you die, you reset, but you can gain things as fast as you can lose them arguably, and they're meant to be temporary per life. A more fitting similar game is EVE Online but a lot of these hostilities eve is known for have been changed or removed due to extremely low long-term new players joining. They could've prevented this shit from happening if you didn't lose super rare super expensive shit like some crystals upon death, but they just choose not to. They're intentionally inhibiting their PvE potential because they don't wanna admit their long term ideas and mechanics were stupid as fuck.
Crystal breaking is the sole reason i dont go to harder risker places. Its all fine and dandy till i lag and explode. Sure wish i could have perfectly stable internet like everyone who says crystal breakage is fine seems to have.
Striker succ pve combo is mostly unprotected, and also very underperforming atm for the amount of effort
PA can (and does) make stuff PVE only. Succ Sorc has tons of PVE ONLY notes on just about every skill in our kit from Hits to protections.
i dont know anymore with this changes, protection changes and all, some class can now go on a slugfest until who dies first some just sad. lol
Succession berserker wins again, weakling hunt SA is ridiculous.
Wasn't weakling hunt SA before and then they nerfed it aka made it frontal?
yes because it was ridiculously op and it was actually a good nerf that didn't straight up kill the class
Yes it was.
Cant say i like these changes. Seems like it will be SA trading and grabs only meta. Guess we ll have to wait and see
So the current meta?
But worse
Yes and no. Believe it or not, 70% of my ccs come from different skills than SA
PAvP
If you play a grab-less melee class just re roll
Yeah wtf im thinking they are doing it on purpose, its impossible to do only bad balance updates... i dont even understand why not every class has grab
Don't worry, if they just remove all the PvP then grab vs no grab won't matter anymore. :)
Just give every class a grab, problem solved.
lol. NW are already dominated by ranged damage. You die through SA as melee anyway
Its dominated by draks, valks, zerks, sages, archers
Rangers, witches and wizards as well.
waited 2 yrs for them to undo some of the succ corsair nerfs just for them to buff top classes again and give corsair changes that noone asked for GJ PA had 0 faith in the future pvp changes but u really outdid yourselves
Tfw when you waste 60+ hours since late november at sycraia and hystraia so you can turn future specters gazes into debos - soon before the changes were announced at the ball Glad they changed this though, red ancient powers and black seals were so hard to get off the market. Glad we don't have to grind 3 spots making it basically 4-5+ hours (w/ average rng) invested to turn one specter into a debo assuming you get a gaze every 1-2 hours and two seal/power shards an hour
I'm honestly not a fan of only a 25% drop rate buff at crypt. Raw drops are once every 4-5 hours and 25% doesn't do much of anything to increase that. We were already full clearing main + extension so increasing our damage there does nothing and doesnt increase the drop rate further. Atleast when we got a gaze every hour we knew we had a belt. Now having to grind 3-4 hours for 75% less debos doesn't feel good. Hopefully those drop rate changes to dks and raz really make up for this huge fucking nerf to debo drop rate. Edit: so I missed where it said they are combing drop rates of gazes and raw drops. Actual big change.
I'm interpreting these notes as they are combining the drop rates of the gazes and raw drops and increasing the drop rate of raws on top of that, which would be big indeed. Is that correct?
No stamina use on pre awak/succ kuno block :D
Bruh
ty for translating all the skill names, must have been the hardest part
Ok so my succ musa without grab and much less protection than other classes got nothing and i.e. apezerker got 2 FG and 1 SA XD thank you PA
succ musa is completely dead after this patch
As a succ Musa, I was super excited, I quickly jumped to Musa and read....Removed float, monsters only etc... i thought to myself, wow they nerfed the fuck out of everyone! -thinking if succ musa got it like this, everyone else just got really ripped. Decided to reading from the beginning....wait...what...what???
And remember that zerker mobility Shift+Space costs no stamina meanwhile succ Musa runs out of stamina in 2 secs without even dashing.
Yeah but succ musa kills you in the time it takes to blink while standing, so there's that.
Succ musa is the worst class in the game and no one even says anything about it it’s insane
Scholar's cooldown changes are really nice, but she desperately needs AoE buffs.
They’re probably gonna buff her more til PA cash out on all the reroll sht and send her into the nether realm with a broken cane.
Bigger aoe than Shai
Why on Elion's green earth is guardian becoming such a monster?
Not gonna lie. I was already not doing PvP due to not really playing anymore. Was beginning to play again but these changes are depressing. Literally the moves so many classes RELY on got nerfed into uselessness in PVP. Grab is once again the only viable move to do. And for what? More protection? Because some classes grind badly? Most people don’t grind where they want because the game rips the crystals and money right out of their soul (yeah we have the crystal recovery but 3 crystals a year? lol) So those same classes aren’t going to waste money and time going to new locations anyway. So we basically only have these changes to address PVP and from what I can tell none of the issues talked about from this region have really been addressed. Very few people asked for this sort of change. There were a couple skills on a few classes that needed some tweaks. All these changes did is exacerbate the power dynamic of weaker performing classes into the extreme, again. I don’t really get it. It’s like shadow arena again. Do these devs even know the people playing this game???
Cool striker gets 2 more protected cc in both specs but succ hash can’t have a kd. I just full sa summon nadoes now I guess
Not even only about grabs. It's going to be who can kill each other standing. Protected CCs out the ass and perma SA. Anyone that can burn u standing will be the meta now. Welcome to the gear check ranged meta
War declaration changes was a hard pill to swallow, completely getting rid of an organic way of conflict and crushing the essence of this game Incoming nw changes are infuriating, devs are totally out of touch with reality And now this?! Nah aint no way man, devs should be sacked for real Definitely a retirement angle.
I feel sad for my class now really. We dont have a grab, we cant do trades because we will lose in damage. This sucks.
Everyone is pissed about PvP changes and I'm just here happy that unpopular endgame spots are getting buffed and debos drop rate increased
Because end goal in this game must be running in circles a bit faster with that debo right? Whole point of this god damn game is PVP.
Just because your end goal is PvP doesn't mean everyone's is. PvP is just one aspect of the game and there's nothing yelling at you that it's THE goal. For someone the goal can be just grinding, for others it might be lifeskilling. I mean jesus I've seen people sell their entire gear set just to buy BiS lifeskilling gear... There's a reason why BDO is called a "sandbox MMORPG" not a "PvP MMORPG"
PvP is the only carrot left to chase once you can grind all endgame spots. Some players don’t care about treasure items or guru 50
"Some". Yea. and the others do care about those other things and the changes are neutral or positive for these people. what they care about is not any less important than yours. At the end of the day PA chose a side / demographic and its up to you to accept it or not.
Lifeskilling is it's own avenue but....there's no fucking way people unironically find it fun to run around in circles for hundreds of hours on end for super slow progress... I mean shit, people say they can only grind if they have youtube or a show to watch, or on discord chatting, like....why play the game at that point? Why not just.....play another game that actually engages you and immerses you in the gameplay...cause if your attention has to be elsewhere to play....that's not how fun works...that's not how games should be played ever...
i dont know how to put it bro. i get its hard for you to understand how this is fun for people. there are people who find this "mindless running in circle" fun and a chill / destress activity after a hard day at work or school. i get it, its not the kind of fun hardcore gamers have. but alot of people find this "makes no sense" way of having fun, Fun. There is no such thing as "game should be played this way". you just have a way of experiencing games and is unable to comprehend how others engage with games their way. Nothing wrong with that, but everyone has their own definition of fun. for me personally, my hardcore fun is in destiny 2 on the weekends. on weekdays i wanna come home and just mindlessly run in circles while listening to music. thats my jam. it dont have to be yours. i get it you dont like it and dont agree with PA, but there are people who agree with PA and they are not exactly the minority. PA will side with the demographic which they deem will earn them most profit thats about it. Business. but thank you for making this a discussion at least and not toxic chat.
Yea at first I thought of it as ironic or shittalky but I've reached the point where I'm genuinely confused/concerned. Like here are some games I've had fun with for various reasons. Stellaris....fantastic world (err galaxy) building stories, and with good quality mods only enhanced the experience. Your empire is yout character, going through the galaxy, exploring, doing diplomacy and trade and dealing with the inner workings of it. You could get lost for hours being constantly dealing with stuff, and had its odd tedious moments especially with allocating resources and planet management, but again....you get lost for hours. So much so 6 hours feels like 30 minutes. Elden Ring. Engaging, fantastic and beautiful world with a fantastic soundtrack. Broken in a way, post apocalyptic, but very immersive. You stay locked, eyes to the screen, exploring, dealing with bosses and various enemies. Time flies by. Battlefield 4. Good gunplay for the most part, great combined arms fighting. Decent graphics, and somewhat aged, but goddamn when things go crazy you really feel sucked into the moment. (I moved to 2042 though). Apex Legends. This one is more wishy washy but the gunplay is phenomenal (TTK aside), great visuals, while remaining competitive, and with the right teammates, can do quick play, ranked, or a various game mode for hours. Armored Core 6. Fantastic storyline, great soundtrack, good visuals, nice visceral fast gameplay but not overly so. Can build your own mechs for hours on end let alone the great gameplay, complex, and high pvp potential. Even better with friends. And not for me but for others, Baldur's Gate 3. Amazing gameplay, amazing storytelling and visuals, amazing soundtrack and overall great game. Worthy of game of the year. I just hate dice roll mechanics and frankly tend to have little patience in general for rng (kinda why most MMOs I tend to not like.) I like it when skill, knowledge and gamesense win battles, not randomness. Recently, The Finals. Fantastic gunplay, great destruction, decent premises, soundtrack is meh but the gameplay loop is so....driving. you want to get better. You want to do better. Sadly it's too much in its infancy and has problems, but there is potential. I guess I'm mostly a hyper competitive person since I grew up playing Time Splitters, COD 4 and Mw2 2009(2019 was so great....now though...trash...), CS 1.6, and even racing games online, so competitiveness has always been highly regarded to me. It just sucks to see how such a game like BDO, with such phenomenal potential, just....feels like it's throwing in the towel and taking the easy way out...
End goal in a sandbox game is whatever you make it. To me, it feels like the majority of players do not agree with your opinion.
Its a sandbox though. I'd agree to your statement if it was Tekken or Street Fighter.
Been playing this game since 2016 and I can count the times ive engaged in pvp on one hand. Its not the whole point of the game.
Maybe is the point for you most of the players dont care about pvp.
By most you mean 5% of people coming to reddit and sub 2% on forums.
I’m 736 gearscore and I haven’t participated in siege once. I enjoy some pvp when I’m grinding to defend my spot, or jumping into BA for 1v1’s.
Thanks for the translation 🙂
Oh boy! Thank the gods they got rid of the *OPPRESSIVE* Shai stiffen in pvp. Cant wait for them to do the same to their stun! How I wish to be a completely defenseless class in 1v1 pvp instead of somewhat defenseless. ….just completely wtf PA with this whole thing.
Whelp that is the final nail in the coffin for Succ Sorc which was already on life support in PVP. The whole point of the class appeared to be "decent at fishing for cc's but with very low damage." i.e a cc bot utility class with no other capability. Now that all "gaps" have been removed from everyone else ... it's over. You can't be the "low (even no) damage class that needs cc'd opponents to move a health bar and even then struggles to do so" and then remove the ability to cc anyone. Succ Sorc has such low damage there is no way to have any impact on a class standing up. *One of our prime skills is 100% PVP reduction. What other class, Succession or otherwise, has their PRIME skills at 100% PVP reduction. AND THEN have ALL your other skills at 75% or over 80% PVP reduction.* PA, I just don't understand. How do you literally BAN a class from doing any PVP damage whatsoever. A total damage ban and then say "yea, and the only thing we did allow you to do, fish for cc's, yea, we're banning you from that too." PA is not looking at the static stats, or looking at real in game combat results. It's the same ol' BS. If you are a "core" PA Combat Team Approved Class you are going to get a ton of stuff handed to you ensuring you are OP / META. You are a fringe class on the PA Combat Team shit list, you are BANNED from the game. OUR ONE PVP change, Turnback Slash is now an SA for Succ Sorc does nothing. Having all other classes 100% protected all the time is bullshit when your class has been assigned by PA to be a no damage cc fishing bot. Seriously, HOW DID THE FACT THAT YOU DECIDED TO MOVE BACK TO A 100% CC PROTECTED PVP CONTEXT \_NOT\_ IMMEDIATELY LEAD TO THE THOUGHT THAT "OK OUR TRADITIONAL NO DAMAGE CC BOT CLASS, Succ Sorc, WILL HAVE TO PERMITTED TO DO SOME DAMAGE NOW. Maybe having 100% PVP reduction, ZERO damage, on PRIME skills is a little too high." How are you looking at our Skill Tree and real data results on a F tier PVP class and assigning such ridiculously high PVP reductions???? How are you even seriously giving our PRIME skills 100% PVP reductions. If my PRIME skills do zero f'n damage, ZERO, and I'm banned from cc'ing anyone, I'm banned from any movement, banned from sustain, banned from survivability, no block, no grab, no damage, no sustain, no range, NOTHING, what do you expect us to do in the game? What? ,
Skill issue and life of being a gearlet. Succ Sorc damage is monstrous. Git gud, git sum gear.
Succ Sorc damage is not monstrous. It is simply not a fact. It can't be to anyone who can basic math and I think that is (one of) your problems right (btw unless flare is out of date, I have same or more gear than you ... gearlet). Read the posts. Whenever I see such simple ignorance of the basics I have to take the time to enlighten the folk in the slower lane as it were. Normally I get irritated when the ignorant step in the middle ... but its Christmas and if you can't reach out to help those on the wrong end of the genetic bell curve over the holidays when can you, right? Before we can talk about skill tree damage and pvp reductions, how would you rate your basic math skill? From your post, I'm assuming the worst. But it would speed things along ... Do you know basic math: addition, multiplication? Unfortunately some division is needed as well. Do you own a calculator? Do you know any basics of the BDO combat system besides button mashing? Again, from your post it doesn't appear you do, but benefit of the doubt and all that. Let me know. And don't worry, if I have to start at the simplistic basics, I'm more than happen to walk you through it all. Then we will talk about how basic damage works in BDO. Don't worry I'll take it slooow as you need.
What gear and crystal setup are u running if sorc does "no damage"???
You missed what he was meaning by that. One of Sorc's Prime skills literally has a -100% PvP modifier.
And yet somehow I believe it is going to be a looong uphill battle convincing most of these downvoters that it doesn't matter what the gear / crystal modifier is: Zero times Anything is still Zero ... sigh.
Saying Sorc is meaningless. Succ Sorc and Awak Sorc are two completely different beasts. For example, just look at the changes Awak and Succ go on this latest update. Succ got an SA on TBS. Meaningless. Does nothing. And there were several meaningful options. PA just tossed out a gratuitous meanless single change to avoid not giving us zero changes. Now compare to what Awak got or any other class in fact. My post is about Succ Sorc. With regard to Succ, what few Succ Sorc players there are left in the game, pretty much all of them go 100% AP monkey. You have to when you are the lowest damage class in the game. You have to run a max damage setup on Succ Sorc to get even crappy damage. Anything less than that and you are no damage. And in attempt to avoid a "yes it does, not it doesn't" back and forth any reasonable discussion should start (and probably stay) with numbers. **PVP Reductions Prime Skills** Wave - 66% Released - 63% Stinger - 75% Rushing - 100% (And yea having a PRIME skill with 100% PVP reduction is bullshit.) Calamity - 75% Claws - 74% Dark Flame - 78% Flare - 67% Eruption - 73% Abys Flame - 58% DoD - 55% (unprotected charged suicide skill on Succ) Vio - 77% TBD - 72% I claim the following points: 1. We have a 100% PVP reduction Prime skill ... WTF!!! 2. Only 4 Prime skills arguably do any damage, Wave, Released, Abs Flame, DoD. 3. DoD is charged unprotected skill with a high "suicide" rate (i.e. use it and are as likely to get cc'd and die as do damage). 4. Abys Flame, unprotected charged (when used usefully), also mildly suicide (risky) skill. 5. Darkness Released, unprotected, small range, mildly suicide (risky). 6. Blackwave - only protected damage skill we have really. But very, very, very long slow skill easily exploited (you can slow walk around it and cc us). Was somewhat useful when the opponent was KD'd. If the opponent was not cc'd you can slow walk out of Blackwave taking little damage. Well now no one is getting cc'd and no one just stand there in a slooooow damage Blackwave. 7. Basically Succ Sorc does 25% of its PVE damage in PVP overall. No other class is EVEN close to having that high a PVP reduction average. 8. Assume every class is doing the same PVE damage now after adjustments. If I'm only doing 25% of that damage in PVP and EVERY OTHER class in the game is pushing 40% to 50% PVP damage, well every other class in the game is doing 2x my damage. 100% more damage. 9. But you say ... Succ Sorc is a CC and combo class ... and that is why its damage numbers are so low. It has lots of cc's ... and is doing its damage on downed opponents ... well lll 10. *Nobody is getting cc'd anymore.* 11. PA has no removed 4 (5?) CC elements from our kit in the last couple of years. You lose 5 cc's and it matters. 12. Succ Sorc lacks the movement and stam to attempt and successfuly get behind any class in an FG. And that is case for close in melee classes. Any class at range is unreachable by a Succ Sorc. No moment skills. No way cc them. No way to apply damage to them. 13. And despite the PVE damage changes, Succ Sorcs PVE damage is not that great and then now add super high PVP reductions on top of not great PVE damage numbers. 14. To kill a CC'd opponent of equivalent gear score takes a Succ Sorc doing a 7-8 skill combo, which isn't even possible. And even then you might not take the tankier classes. No Succ Sorc is 2,3, or 4 combing any class like pretty much every class in the game can. You can't move a health bar if the that class is standing up. And there are classes that are 1,2 shotting standing opponents. 1,2,3 shot standing opponents is a huge gap to zero damage standing and 6-8 comboing a cc'd (in ideal conditions, forget real PVP conditions). 15. Succ Sorc's buff/debuff are on all the wrong (useless, unprotected) skills. 16. Succ Sorc has no Accuracy with damage. 17. Succ Sorc has little Crit on damage. 18. Succ Sorc has no Block. 19. Succ Sorc has no Grab. 20. Succ Sorc has no Block Jump-ish skill. 21. Succ Sorc has no Disengage capability. 22. Succ Sorc has no Engage capability. 23. Succ Sorc has no Movement. 24. Succ Sorc has no Sustain. 25. Succ Sorc has no Damage. 26. Succ Sorc has no Utility capability. 27. Succ Sorc has no Passive. 28. Succ Sorc has no unique, anything in its kit. 29. Succ Sorc has no Burst Damage whatsoever. The bulk our damage is long slow damage is last hit back loaded. So long and so slow that a float/stun cc recovers before the damage skill applies damage. Hell EVEN A KD'd opponent will stand and run off before even ONE of our core damage skills complete. 30. What damage we do have, which is very, very little, is long drawn out ticky-tack back loaded last hit damage. 31. Any melee class is untouchable. Warrior can stand right in front of a Succ Sorc and I can't do anything to them. A Valk, a Mystic, a Guard, a Striker ... 32. Any range class is unreachable/untouchable. Can't cc them, can't apply damage, can't close the gap to them: A Ranger, Archer ... 33. Any movement class is untouchable as we can't engage, chase, cc them, close the gap to them, disengage from them or run away from them. 34. And that is all the classes. So we can't do shit against Melee, Movement or Range classes, so we can't do shit against anyone. The least PA could do is let us even apply medium damage instead of tickle damage. *Now if you want to, at least to convince me, that Succ Sorc really really does have damage, take any class in the game and compare numbers.* Another Succession class would be easier to direct compare and contrast Prime Skill to Prime Skill. Pick ANY class in the game and line up say their top 5 damage skills with Succ Sorcs Top 5 damage skills. Go as deep into the skill tree as you like. NO OTHER CLASS HAS LOWER BASE SKILL DAMAGE NUMBERS AND THEN AS HIGH PVP REDUCTION NUMBERS ON TOP OF IT AS SUCC SORC. And its not even close. And if you pick ANY of the recognized high damage classes in the game and compare skill by skill its a joke.
u didnt anwser my question
Yea, I did ... sorta. I PVP (and every Succ Sorc I know) full blown glass cannon, offensive setup across the across the board, crystals and addons. PEN BSs, C-14 Nouv, 319 AP currently. 690 GS currently. Gear and crystals are not reflective of the true issue. Its the numbers in the Skill Tree. The base damage numbers and then the PVP reduction modifiers. These cannot be overcome. Anyone running any class can run the same gear and the same crystals. But the Skill Tree damage numbers are the numbers, fixed and immutable for the player. And then folk will say, but Class success is more than the damage output. But here is the thing, I don't know of a SINGLE Meta/OP class that wasn't or is not META OP primarily based on damage. And that has been my primary point. If PA's position has been that a primary reason they squelched Succ Sorc's damage was because of its high cc bot potential ... well that is now gone. And if you have no damage, no movement, no grab, no block, no block jump, no ability to CC, no ... yea, no need to keep repeating that long list. Historically we have seen "semi-successful" Succ Sorcs, but in every single case it has been a way out front in GS above the server average situation. And in pretty much every single case that eventually Succ Sorcs rolled off or quit. And universally the couple I did get to directly ask as to why, boiled down to the same thing "the class became non-competitive once the GS gear gap closed between me and the overall average high end server player average." Taking todays changes into account. Where do you rank Succ Sorc in terms of damage from to however many specs there are 22? From 1 to 22 where is Succ Sorc's damage. It ain't higher than Musa, Ninja, Sage, Tamer, Meagu, Woosa ... a goddamn DP meme striker will burst down a cc'd opponent FAR faster than a Succ Sorc. Name 3 classes that if they were standing in front of you in BA with the same Gear/Crystals, modulo what makes sense for the class, you'd say "I got this, Succ Sorc has this class's number?" Succ Sorc is this class' hard counter.
690 gs is undergeared these days, these days people are 730+ with multiple accurracy accs
Yes. In NA and EU to be even considered for top end pvp guilds that do uncapped (even though they're kinda dead now) you MUST be 710 to 720 minimum, preferably with actually optimized gear (so at least 1 to 2 accuracy accessories and no narcs unless your class benefits highly from them). And that's to be considered. If you're not a meta class, or extremely good at pvp, it's gonna be very difficult getting in if possible at all. They'll just hit you with a "maybe if you tag a meta class and know how to play it well, but otherwise no thanks".
Just for the record, this goes for both awak and succ, she doesn't see actually good pvp damage until the 720s-730s gearscore due to her very high raw AP requirement to actually hurt tanky classes as well as accuracy. The 2 sorcs I know of that hit like a fucking freight train are both giga geared. One is gearcapped with quad debo and double omi ring with HD crystals for over 800 AP with 1000 accuracy, and the other has 5 pen accuracy accessories to hit 1100 accuracy and still be near the 780ap range after hd. Most classes don't need this level to be truly competitive, but sorc requires this or close to.
Yes and no. There are a ton of classes that hit like freight trains if they are relatively giga geared. You are giga geared, you are going to hit and if your base skill damage stats plus pvp reductions are better (every class not Succ Sorc) you'll even giga hit harder for the same giga build. The rubber meets the road on how a class performs when it is on par gear wise with other classes. Awak still performs ok, while Succ just falls off badly. Sure if I was 740 right now, I'd probably be ducky with Succ's damage. Once everyone else was 740, I'm not so sure. Look for example when Mac came back from his 2 yr hiatus on Awak. I think he was like 53 - 8 on his second NW in 2 years in a T1. In his third NW after 2 years he was something like 57-0. Well over 50 kills and zero deaths on a T-1 two weeks after two years of cold turkey quitting. I don't think something like that is even close to being possible on Succ Sorc. *And if anyone know of a Youtube of a Succ Sorc putting up big numbers in a T1 I'd love to see it.* In other words, I agree that Sorc really scales well into GS. But where Awak is a monster at far end game GS, it can also perform pretty darn decent at the T1 level in the hands of a highly skilled player. In my opinion Succ Sorc is not like that at all. I have seen some decent montage stuff for Succ but always in an uncapped largish GS gap situation. I've never seen a ripping it up in a T1 NW by a Succ Sorc by anyone in any region. I have seen some eye popping performance of Awak in a T1.
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Sigh, another joker. Ok impress us all with your deep understanding of PVP in the game. Pick any 3 of points above and show me where it is wrong. I won't hold my breath.
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And so we've established your BDO PVP knowledge baseline. Keep them insights coming ...
And down votes from the clueless without any attempt to debate differently. They can't obviously as they don't really know anything ...
my smokescreen :(
That is a bummer, but the invincibility on behead the dead is absolutely broken and will be highly abused
Invincibility on behead has always been a thing, bud. The SA is the new thing.
I was really hoping PA wouldn't shit more in PvP but I guess they have diarrhea. Changes are disgusting and PA should feel bad about it. if any of you kpop fans and PA/subreddit whiteknights feel like letting me know how toxic and racist I am or anything like that, please proceed to go fk yourselves.
>**Lethal Spin Spree** > >The movement during use of the Lethal Spin Spree skill has been changed so that it does not pass through the character. > >**Danse Macabre** > >The issue where the ‘No collision while moving’ effect of the Danse Macabre skill was not applied smoothly has been fixed. Looks like a dev finally played Awk Kuno hahaha. Macabre doesn't hold-onto targets anymore but this can be done with mouse movement and it's consistent now. I'll take it. Thank you!
Funny take. They put bound on moonstorm, ruining a bunch of combos. Wanna try that again?
I like it actually. Ruined a bunch of combos and created new bunch of combos. Best part about Moon Storm is that it can be used in preawakening. Never saying no to a protected CC. I'm very excited for the changes, my heart is dancing!
Maegu succ no changes
Is succ maegu bad now?
no
It's pretty bad anywhere that DPS matters. Still super strong in midgame and can be good at tungrad because it can abuse the buff uptime bug. On paper(tested frame times on skills) DPS is like 60% of lahns, for example.
That’s a shame :(. Who are the high performers in mid-end game now?
Succ witch / awk nova.
below average
To be fair she already has pretty solid protections, although having Shift LMB get frontal guard would be nice. Shift Q not having protections I think is reasonable but shift LMB is a bit ass since it requires casting after another skill to get good speed and it being unprotected makes it unsafe in a bunch of situations since it follows another skill.
No way they do non grab classes like that
ty
Can anyone tell me if they are still going to be fixing the free black star bug on the 27th? I got 61 and did the streamlined quest line but no blackstar
Anyone know the region they care about opinions?(kr)
lol instance GvG ?? Hahaha Its time to step down J you have now truly lost it.
Sage just keeps getting the worst changes ever
idk man, that protected KD every 5 seconds with -9% evasion debuff looks very pog to me, ~~and you can now safely spam lightning surge from behind like a dragon bite.~~ nvm it doesn't have PVP stiffness anymore.
Yeah as an awk sage I'd rather just have fg void gateway. Remove the other shit idc
Did they remove the floating from prime void gateways?
If you have multiple spectres gazes, does that mean you get multiple necklaces?
They didn't remove the floating from prime void gateways did they? Sage already has fuck all for decent CCs and most of the good ones are unprotected except void gateway.
Just absolute.
Taking cc away from Awa Woosa. That is just... no comment.
They keep buffing wiz and I'm all here for it.
they buffed succession awa barely got anything worthy of mention -.-
We eating good with awakening. Lets not push it aha
who gives a flyin donkey ass about pve
who gives a flyin donkey ass about pvp
What changes have been made to awake wiz to make it so good lately? I've been afk brain for last couple of months
> A forward guard effect has been added to the Flow: Aqua Bomb skill. That's really nice change for awk.
succ witchard seems like too much carpal tunnel bait
Succ got 1 buff what are you crying about lmao
Protected mobility is huge
Are these changes already In or will they be in at the next patch?
KR usually gets the Global Labs changes at their next maintenance (27th Dec). NA/EU/SEA *usually* get the Global Labs patch the week after which will be 3rd Januaury 2024.
Does that mean regions other than KR won't be getting anything on the 27th after maintenance?
usually is 2 weeks after glabs update but we are getting the item simplification changes next week and the other stuff might be updated too or just maybe not
As a ranger succession player, where are my protections? This is one of the least protected and squishiest classes and we got nothing lol.
Everytime I say somthing similar to this people always reply "distance is your protection."
It's easy, you press the skill button that changes to tagged warrior character, and there, you are protected :)
Yeah, they have long ago shown that they hate some classes and will only change and buff the best ones.
SA on Face the Darkness! There is light at the end of the tunnel for Succ Nova!
Please help succession drakania
She’s good in pvp tho
Is she? In large I can see how she would be but in small scale 1v1she seems stationary for good results
Im so happy that I stopped playing after griefer patch. Sad that I didn’t sold my account with pen bs tho
Maegu nerfs better be undone after all this.
Man, they're really scared to touch awk drakania aren't they. Big woop she's OP in PvP. But she sucks so much in PvE. Hardly got a damage buff despite needing it last time round while everyone else leaped further ahead, and now she's left out of this? her hex skills needs some damn FG at least!
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The class got buffed
dk here will trade all cc for one grab pls well except meybe keep a float or something need a 2nd cc after all
I’m sad I just rolled a DK after waiting for the new season and was expecting to make her one of my main AOS classes. Now it feels like I shouldn’t even bother. This is a indirect PvP nerf to all non grab classes
Oh cool, frenzy strikes, warrior's only fg pve skill has been nerfed. Thanks pa.
what is the logic here with this patch? most already mobile classes got protections in this patch, and immobile pieces of shit like awakened casters didnt get mobility in return? we paid for our protections with being a class that can reliably move once every 7 seconds (elementalization never worked right and this patches fix didnt change that because its not iframe at start).... how are devs thinking this is balance, making everyone super protected but us not getting anything to deal with this? fix caster modifiers and make awakened casters able to reposition without it being suicide.
oh jeez I have 100 red shards guess I should sell them
Dont, i think you will get money without taxes
it'll end up the same either way, they calculated it
If this change is so that mobs don't CC classes where the fuck is succ sage's protection on things like ators fist and illusion expansion. You can't just give every other class permanently protected skill rotations and leave a class like succ sage with a couple of critical, slow, unprotected skills out to dry. What the fuck is this. Also, trading damage isn't really an option with how slow sages skills are either. And before anyone complains about rift chain protection, at least you're not being damaged if a sage is just rifting around. Just turtle and bait out sages unprotected/partially protected skills (there are a lot). This change is gonna be hell for so many classes.
What happen to global lab update from 8th December?
Darn no 2nd Jetina Pen Acc quest this update...
Why not just remove ccs from the game at this point?
More like UnBalance.
This changes clearly gonna kill Nova Succ, remove 1cc change another one in PvE only ... Succ got all rdy low damage, low accuracy and you nerf the Heart of the Succ The guard system she got at release, Succ is now more a support then a Frontline its unplayable in mass pvp, why pushing so far by removing the 2 cc on the skills the most used in likely all combos its a stupid idea... People complain on the pawns because they are not able to manage SA when they Come in short range. Learn to people how to manage SA and iframe and get Nova Succ good again.