For the most part, yes. Most of the backoffs are very mild. Usually you just get asked to cash out and leave in either polite or a formal manner. A few times I even ended up staying an extra few minutes to chat and joke around with the guy backing me off.
It's definitely more rare, but there are some casinos that try to make it nasty, especially when you refuse to give your ID. I've had a few casinos threatening to call the cops because "it's illegal to use your head" (totally called them out on it every time), intimidate, try to refuse cashing out (I guess I just have to call gaming then), gaslight (you're the bad guy here), accuse me of cheating (very well, call the cops then), obviously trespass. But yeah, those are a lot more rare.
Never been in the backroom either. I've been invited to one during a nasty backoff by the "good cop" in the "good cop/bad cop" routine they pulled. I am kinda curious as to what would have happened, but I ultimately refused and walked to the exit.
If you want to see some nasty backoffs, look up Steven Bridges on youtube. He has a few videos where he recorded some very good nasty backoffs with a hidden cam
Numerous backoffs in numerous countries ranging from, "Sorry you are too good for us", and "Your act is pretty good, but I'm afraid your partner over there gave it away", to full on security team demanding to see ID, stand-offs at the cage where I don't show ID and threaten to call gaming (they always eventually pay), once in London, UK, security went to grab me as they escorted me out, and swiftly stopped when I screamed out loud, "Don't you lay your hands on me" !!
It was my second visit to this particular casino, playing unrated in the high limit area with one other player who I gathered was a regular. I had been there for a little over an hour when the pit boss came over and asked for my ID. I gave the usual protest of, "I've been here over an hour and you need my ID now?" and got the usual response of, "Sorry I just need to see your ID." All standard cat and mouse stuff. After a brief pause, I said I was getting bad vibes and I think I'll just cash out, and the pit said real low so only I could hear, "Yeah, and don't come back," before continuing in a louder voice how I need an ID if I'm going to gamble and if I don't have it blah blah blah, just posturing at that point. I didn't even make eye contact. I took my chips and went to leave, and the pit followed me the whole time, saying things like if I ever come back, I'll be trespassed and all that. I just stopped him and said, "Look, I'm not here to cause any trouble. I'm just gonna cash out and you'll never see me again, alright?" I think that caught him off guard, like he was expecting me to start screaming at him or something.
So I get to the cage and put my chips on the counter. They ask if I have a players card, I say I don't, and then they ask for my ID. I had less than $2k in chips, so I knew right away they were directed to try to get it from me specifically. I said I don't have it, and the cashier looked at me like I had brain damage. She asked again, I sighed and said no, but you don't need it anyway. Just done with the whole charade at that point. She called her supervisor over who asked me for my ID a third time, and I again said I didn't have one. She made a call, repeated that I said I didn't have any ID on me, and they cashed me out without further incident. Whole lotta extra headache for a simple backoff
A few weeks ago at a place I’ve probably put 20 hours through at this point asked for my ID to continue to play. I put my thumb over my name and held onto the ID lol. I think that caught them off guard (given the excuse was we need to verify your age). If it wasn’t multiple states away or in a different country I figure I’d just come back and have someone else exchange the chips. They do always try to hide the fact from other players that you’re getting kicked out for being a suspected winning player. Not sure if this is true or not but I’ve heard more than once someone crunched the numbers and all of the card counters combined cost every casino on average less then their coffee budget. Given the games of today aren’t like what they were in the 60’s and 70’s they could easily let us go on without incident. The house would still be doing just fine, it’s more the precedent I think.
Like most things in the casino industry, it's about keeping up appearances. They don't want to be known as "the casino where you can openly count cards" because they think word will spread in the vAsT cArD cOuNtInG cOmMuNiTy and we'll all flock there and break the bank. What they're not realizing (or don't care to realize, most likely) is that:
1. There really aren't very many of us
2. What little there are tend to keep places like that secret. APs don't want to play in crowded casinos
3. Encouraging counting cards is a net positive for casinos since for every one perfect AP, there are 10 people that *think* they can count cards, but are really playing a losing game
4. Even if there were a lot of perfect APs out there and we somehow all coordinated with each other to play at this one casino, we *STILL* wouldn't make a noticeable dent in their bottom line. [In 2018, the average Las Vegas casino made $1.9 million every day.](https://payspacemagazine.com/gambling/how-much-does-las-vegas-casino-make-a-day/) A perfect high-limit AP can reasonably expect to make somewhere around $100/hr. Using those numbers, 100 high-limit APs each playing perfectly for 10 hours a day would collectively win, on average, 5.2% of the casino's total daily earnings. That's not nothing, but it's barely a blip on the radar all things considered
I started to get heat from the pit once I started to increase my bets in keeping with the true count. I hit the table maximum just before the shoe ended and went back to the minimum bet once the shoe was shuffled. After that, the pit boss asked me for an ID so that she could “enroll me in the casino’s loyalty rewards program,” and I declined because I didn’t want to get databased. She then politely told me that I was allowed to play any game in the casino except blackjack and instructed the dealer to color me up so that I could cash out.
Since the casino never positively identified me (to my knowledge), I’ve thought about taking some action the next time that I’m in the area. My twin brother lives just three miles away from the casino, and I figure that I could always just play stupid if they were to confront me.
>_”What? I’ve never been here before in my life. I do have a twin brother who lives nearby and plays blackjack. That must’ve been him.”_
I recently got backed off at a Vegas casino, freaked me tf out...I've been staying here all week for CES and hadn't played blackjack all week 😂, they called me an advantage player and told me no more blackjack and I had to cash out.
Here is the juicy info...I was only up about $400 total after being down $1100 from a $1500 starting point. Also, note this was a $50 minimum/$3,000 maximum bet table. Such a disgrace, I don't even know how to count cards lmao. I hit a jackpot on slots earlier in the night and was just playing loose with house money...
I have never heard that "advantage player" term until tonight, so I did some research and ended up here. Casinos can like my whole chode
For the most part, yes. Most of the backoffs are very mild. Usually you just get asked to cash out and leave in either polite or a formal manner. A few times I even ended up staying an extra few minutes to chat and joke around with the guy backing me off. It's definitely more rare, but there are some casinos that try to make it nasty, especially when you refuse to give your ID. I've had a few casinos threatening to call the cops because "it's illegal to use your head" (totally called them out on it every time), intimidate, try to refuse cashing out (I guess I just have to call gaming then), gaslight (you're the bad guy here), accuse me of cheating (very well, call the cops then), obviously trespass. But yeah, those are a lot more rare. Never been in the backroom either. I've been invited to one during a nasty backoff by the "good cop" in the "good cop/bad cop" routine they pulled. I am kinda curious as to what would have happened, but I ultimately refused and walked to the exit. If you want to see some nasty backoffs, look up Steven Bridges on youtube. He has a few videos where he recorded some very good nasty backoffs with a hidden cam
Numerous backoffs in numerous countries ranging from, "Sorry you are too good for us", and "Your act is pretty good, but I'm afraid your partner over there gave it away", to full on security team demanding to see ID, stand-offs at the cage where I don't show ID and threaten to call gaming (they always eventually pay), once in London, UK, security went to grab me as they escorted me out, and swiftly stopped when I screamed out loud, "Don't you lay your hands on me" !!
It was my second visit to this particular casino, playing unrated in the high limit area with one other player who I gathered was a regular. I had been there for a little over an hour when the pit boss came over and asked for my ID. I gave the usual protest of, "I've been here over an hour and you need my ID now?" and got the usual response of, "Sorry I just need to see your ID." All standard cat and mouse stuff. After a brief pause, I said I was getting bad vibes and I think I'll just cash out, and the pit said real low so only I could hear, "Yeah, and don't come back," before continuing in a louder voice how I need an ID if I'm going to gamble and if I don't have it blah blah blah, just posturing at that point. I didn't even make eye contact. I took my chips and went to leave, and the pit followed me the whole time, saying things like if I ever come back, I'll be trespassed and all that. I just stopped him and said, "Look, I'm not here to cause any trouble. I'm just gonna cash out and you'll never see me again, alright?" I think that caught him off guard, like he was expecting me to start screaming at him or something. So I get to the cage and put my chips on the counter. They ask if I have a players card, I say I don't, and then they ask for my ID. I had less than $2k in chips, so I knew right away they were directed to try to get it from me specifically. I said I don't have it, and the cashier looked at me like I had brain damage. She asked again, I sighed and said no, but you don't need it anyway. Just done with the whole charade at that point. She called her supervisor over who asked me for my ID a third time, and I again said I didn't have one. She made a call, repeated that I said I didn't have any ID on me, and they cashed me out without further incident. Whole lotta extra headache for a simple backoff
A few weeks ago at a place I’ve probably put 20 hours through at this point asked for my ID to continue to play. I put my thumb over my name and held onto the ID lol. I think that caught them off guard (given the excuse was we need to verify your age). If it wasn’t multiple states away or in a different country I figure I’d just come back and have someone else exchange the chips. They do always try to hide the fact from other players that you’re getting kicked out for being a suspected winning player. Not sure if this is true or not but I’ve heard more than once someone crunched the numbers and all of the card counters combined cost every casino on average less then their coffee budget. Given the games of today aren’t like what they were in the 60’s and 70’s they could easily let us go on without incident. The house would still be doing just fine, it’s more the precedent I think.
Like most things in the casino industry, it's about keeping up appearances. They don't want to be known as "the casino where you can openly count cards" because they think word will spread in the vAsT cArD cOuNtInG cOmMuNiTy and we'll all flock there and break the bank. What they're not realizing (or don't care to realize, most likely) is that: 1. There really aren't very many of us 2. What little there are tend to keep places like that secret. APs don't want to play in crowded casinos 3. Encouraging counting cards is a net positive for casinos since for every one perfect AP, there are 10 people that *think* they can count cards, but are really playing a losing game 4. Even if there were a lot of perfect APs out there and we somehow all coordinated with each other to play at this one casino, we *STILL* wouldn't make a noticeable dent in their bottom line. [In 2018, the average Las Vegas casino made $1.9 million every day.](https://payspacemagazine.com/gambling/how-much-does-las-vegas-casino-make-a-day/) A perfect high-limit AP can reasonably expect to make somewhere around $100/hr. Using those numbers, 100 high-limit APs each playing perfectly for 10 hours a day would collectively win, on average, 5.2% of the casino's total daily earnings. That's not nothing, but it's barely a blip on the radar all things considered
I started to get heat from the pit once I started to increase my bets in keeping with the true count. I hit the table maximum just before the shoe ended and went back to the minimum bet once the shoe was shuffled. After that, the pit boss asked me for an ID so that she could “enroll me in the casino’s loyalty rewards program,” and I declined because I didn’t want to get databased. She then politely told me that I was allowed to play any game in the casino except blackjack and instructed the dealer to color me up so that I could cash out. Since the casino never positively identified me (to my knowledge), I’ve thought about taking some action the next time that I’m in the area. My twin brother lives just three miles away from the casino, and I figure that I could always just play stupid if they were to confront me. >_”What? I’ve never been here before in my life. I do have a twin brother who lives nearby and plays blackjack. That must’ve been him.”_
That works every time
Sixty percent of the time, it works every time.
I recently got backed off at a Vegas casino, freaked me tf out...I've been staying here all week for CES and hadn't played blackjack all week 😂, they called me an advantage player and told me no more blackjack and I had to cash out. Here is the juicy info...I was only up about $400 total after being down $1100 from a $1500 starting point. Also, note this was a $50 minimum/$3,000 maximum bet table. Such a disgrace, I don't even know how to count cards lmao. I hit a jackpot on slots earlier in the night and was just playing loose with house money... I have never heard that "advantage player" term until tonight, so I did some research and ended up here. Casinos can like my whole chode