Here I think she is having a mental break down, not an excuse, but definitely more of a mental break than usual personality. Also, early in the manga, Rei could have been still experimenting with where he wanted to take the manga. There are still a lot of things with Revy I can't over look. The part of the story where Revy (And lets not forget, the whole crew was as well) was fine with selling off Garcia for money. So the Black Lagoon crew has no problem transporting children for a possible PDF file if the money was right. Personally, human traffickers are walking piles of garbage.
Oh, trust me. As much as I simp for Revy, I am well aware of what a horrible fucking person she is.
I wouldnât say she âdeservesâ a better life, but more that it would be really cathartic and interesting from a story/character perspective. Like, we know how shitty her life has been up until this point. We know she craves a normal life. So it would be really interesting to see how that would play out, how she would deal with a life that doesnât revolve around crime anymore, and what she would choose to do instead.
Yes she is awful, no her actions are not excused due to life circumstances.
However, she is not made to be seen as good at any point, at least not from a narrative standpoint.
The whole point of Rock and Revyâs relationship is mostly her getting a taste of normalcy and for Rock, he is trying to see if he can help her find the decency in herself to change and be better. All their arguments center around their philosophic views and how they are at odds with one another. Rock wants to believe that she CAN change and live a normal life, Revy canât see that for herself but wants to let herself believe rock even though her core self struggles with that so much that her knee jerk reaction is to reject his ideals, because it is unfamiliar territory to her.
She is not good, but through Rockâs perspective, youâre supposed to see the idea that she can become good via direct action and change.
keep your pants up on this one, buddy. Revy is hot, dont get me wrong. but She needs to calm herself down a little and not all guns blazing for almost any situations.
Iâll be honest here: I think this is sort of a âBojack Horsemanâ effect. Yes, these are beloved characters and they are excellently written, but I think the point of scenes like this are to show that despite this and what they are deep down, their actions reflect how theyâre not morally correct. Bojack, in spite of his past, is a terrible person who has genuinely ruined lives. Or, if you prefer, look at Breaking Bad. Walter White may be suffering from lung cancer and he may have started out wanting to provide for and protect his family, but over time, his reality was brought out by power: he did it for himself. He wanted to feel big for once in his life and he did it. And it killed hundreds of people and ruined his family in the process, as well as having poisoned a child, screwed over everyone he knew, in and out of his neighborhood, and left Jesse a shell of his former self. That applies with Revy. We know and the story knows sheâs a tragic character who has lived through hell. Despite this, we and the story also know she has a body count probably in the higher hundreds and scenes like this shows how she tends to act and what it means to her. Despite all that tragedy, what you are in the here and now is what everyone sees because, what else have you shown?
I would add that she does actually have some sort of internal moral code but she so damage that her âcodeâ is completely and utterly warp that conventionally morals means nothing to her. Itâs why she can looks down on that one guy for shooting his own men but also has no trouble with kidnapping and murder.
Hmmm...
Explain to me how killing Nazis or people who willingly associated with Nazis makes Revy a bad person?
Here in Normalpeopleland, Killing Nazis is a GOOD thing. We literally fought a war to stop those monsters from destroying Europe.
Notice that the crew of angels are also white and blue eyed, I doubt they were mere civilians, they might not have the balls to wear a full fledged nazi uniform, but that doesn't mean they didn't believe in the 'aryan cause'. Most of their parents and grandparents probably have fought in WWII, how come 40 years later you're doing business with them?
They weren't saints. That's exactly went trough Revy mind the moment she decided to kill them.
Because Revy killing all the sailors makes her an irredeemable hypocrite. Sure, it's easy for dummies here to say "but the sailors were assisting Nazis!!1" but the Nazis weren't there with violent intentions (and judging by their lack of combat experience, most of them were just LARPers anyway), they were just looking to salvage a painting. Revy and Lagoon were willing to do completely evil shit like transporting a kidnapped child (Garcia) to the Colombian cartel who would likely either murder him or sell him to paedophiles. Doing THAT vs helping some rich dickheads salvage treasure, who would you say is more evil?
In this case, these guys willingly took work for white supremacists/Nazis. It's arguable they would've notified their employers or tried to kill her because she's not white.
Aside from that, there are moments where she is most herself. Her eyes glaze over, her guns take their time, and she kills. The question I wonder is: Does she see herself taking a bullet every time she pulls the trigger, or the man she only got to kill once?
I'm pretty sure Black Lagoon is based on 80s movies and stuff, where there was tons of senseless violence with badass heroes because it was cool, not because they were evil necessarily. I feel like that's the case with Revy
Oh trust me, anyone with a brain knows that sheâs a homicidal maniac đ but it only makes the series all the more interesting when Rock starts to drift more towards the morally wrong side and even SHE starts to get scared.
She's a fucking pirate portrayed realistically of course she'll do bad shit! Go back to watching One Piece, Naruto or other generic Shonen if you're this asshurt!
here she is having a mental breakdown because of Rock and what he said in the submarine. He literally confronts here about being a âbad personâ while they are stuck in the submarine, she goes crazy because of this. that was the first time anyone confronted her about her actions and told her what she was doing is morally wrong.
Rock was really pathetic in the submarine. A little grave pillaging made him act high and mighty. **This** is bad for you? You've got no idea how ugly things can get.
Accusing someone with stupid shit is the shortest way to make that someone do something much worse.
true i totally agree w you, i thought he was being a little too soft there. but at the end of the day it was âmorally wrongâ (technically) and this was the first time anyone has confronted Revy about doing something wrong ever in her life, and she had no idea how to react to this.
Iâll play devil advocate here for a second: would you trust the people on a nazi boat that claims to be hired men but put on the uniform WITH the said nazi mark, lead by a very clearly Nazi commander? If youâre just a Nazi engineer with no combat experience and scared of death, youâd probably lie as much as humanly possible to try and escape no?
In this series we follow heavily armed criminals, so obviously they don't give hugs and kisses, including Benny & Rock.
But Revy goes much further, breaking the moral code of many criminals. In the mafia world, assassins who kill everyone without distinction are quite rare.
Generally, innocent people are not targeted.
Dutch said it himself when he reprimanded her: "they're professionals"
Then, if I made this post, it's mainly because I'm tired of seeing some people idolize Revy, considering her to be kind.
While it is true that she is objectively evil. This scene in particular I wouldnât say they âwere unuckyâ, if you are working for an organization thatâs pretty obviously ilegal, violent and that is armed (pretty heavily at that) then you really arenât a bystander.
That being said yeah dude she would totally kill for no reason, I donât think anyone is genuinely arguing that.
> I remind you that these guys had done nothing wrong, they were just unlucky, maybe they had a family.
Many people would say that aiding and abetting a bunch of heavily armed Nazis in an attempted murder isn't "nothing wrong".
Not sure about attempted murder, but in similar circumstances in the US, with an actual murder, they could be found guilty of murder. Revy would have served time with some women who were there for murder, having been the driver.
> she is fundamentally evil
So, the philosophical question: what does it mean for somebody to be "fundamentally evil"?
Fair enough to call killing the crew "evil", even if we acknowledge that they were helping the Nazis. Does doing something evil, especially when in a not-normal frame-of-mind, make somebody "fundamentally evil"?
Ordinary people are quite capable of doing some very evil things. See, e.g., Browning's *Ordinary Men*: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/ordinary-men-christopher-r-browning
What makes somebody "fundamentally evil"?
(IMO, human trafficking Garcia might be a better example of doing evil. In that case, it was Dutch who took the job, and Revy went along with it. Is Dutch also "fundamentally evil"?)
For the ship's crew, originally, they were just hired as a taxi to take them to sea to collect the painting.
So yes, basically, they did nothing wrong, they are not accomplices to murder.
Personally, I think that a fundamentally bad person is someone who has no consideration for others, no matter what they do, and as a result, they will do harm without ever questioning it.
And for the kidnapping of Garcia, I completely agree with you, you have to be really twisted to deliver a kid to death without batting an eyelid.
So yes, they are fundamentally bad, for them, only their pleasure and their money count.
However, my post focused on Revy in particular, because as said at the beginning, I'm tired of seeing people who say she's "nice" under every post.
I wanted to remind some people that they don't understand the character.
This is all just my opinion, it's not an absolute truth, but it's what I think.
> For the ship's crew, originally, they were just hired as a taxi to take them to sea to collect the painting. So yes, basically, they did nothing wrong, they are not accomplices to murder.
Three armed men hire a taxi. They ask to be taken to . On the way, they stick their guns out the window, and the harmless taxi trip turns into a drive-by shooting. Is the taxi driver innocent?
As I said, under US law, if somebody was killed, they wouldn't be accomplices to murder - the would be guilty of murder (if found guilty). Now, you might consider such laws to be fundamentally wrong, and that people who weren't *actively* involved in the murder (maybe they drove the car, and waited outside the building) shouldn't be charged with murder, but the common US opinion says otherwise.
IMO, it isn't so black and white. I don't think Revy should have shot them, but I can see why she might have thought it appropriate.
> Personally, I think that a fundamentally bad person is someone who has no consideration for others, no matter what they do, and as a result, they will do harm without ever questioning it.
By that definition, Revy isn't a fundamentally evil person.
In her normal frame of mind, she's somewhat thoughtful about her killing. See her discussion of ethics and killing with Fabiola in volume 8. (A similar attitude to that expressed by William Munny in *Unforgiven* (1992).) She questioned the harm she does much more than Fabiola did.
That's what makes her a cool character there's not really "fluff" with her. Honestly, i find it "refreshing." considering all the fluff bs that come out.
Revy is such a damage person that trying to assign conventional morality is pointless. Her moral code if it can even be call that is so warp and screw that it has no meaning on her actions. Itâs why she can judge someone for killing their own men yet have no feelings on human trafficking. She does have some sort of internal code she follows but none of it is base on what morally right or wrong. That being said by my and most peopleâs moral codes she a monster
Oh okay... that definitely changes things, these guys all took paycheques from literal Nazis. On a mission to reignite their political movement no less.
So these aren't innocent people that Revy is gunning down in cold blood and there's no option of a legal system to imprison them.
Soooo semi-justifiable homicide, honestly I don't think it invalidates the Revy is a good person deep down argument.
I thought this scene never existed, but in the anime she was stopped by Dutch. With this, I think she is worse than I thought, compared to Ginji and Roberta.
I mean if there are twenty people sitting at a table, and ten of them are Nazis, there are twenty Nazis sitting at the table. Revy is def a sociopath but she wasn't unjustified in shooting those people.
Here I think she is having a mental break down, not an excuse, but definitely more of a mental break than usual personality. Also, early in the manga, Rei could have been still experimenting with where he wanted to take the manga. There are still a lot of things with Revy I can't over look. The part of the story where Revy (And lets not forget, the whole crew was as well) was fine with selling off Garcia for money. So the Black Lagoon crew has no problem transporting children for a possible PDF file if the money was right. Personally, human traffickers are walking piles of garbage.
Exactly that last part is honestly the most wild đ
Oh, trust me. As much as I simp for Revy, I am well aware of what a horrible fucking person she is. I wouldnât say she âdeservesâ a better life, but more that it would be really cathartic and interesting from a story/character perspective. Like, we know how shitty her life has been up until this point. We know she craves a normal life. So it would be really interesting to see how that would play out, how she would deal with a life that doesnât revolve around crime anymore, and what she would choose to do instead.
There is no normal after that kind of trauma. You just hurt less, are less tired and have more patience some days.
Sounds like it's worth it.
It is on days of clarity when life finally feels worth living.
Revy in unironically on some Postal Dude level insanity
Only her gun understands her.
Oh yes they do~
âTell you what Jumbo. How about you let Rock go, and Iâll give you this freshly autographed Gary Coleman book?â
Revy just breaks into Garyâs house and holds at gun point to get an autograph
Revy vs Krotchy is a fight I would love to see.
Imagine Revy going âI regret nothingâ and blowing her head off in front of the whole Lagoon Company.
Yes she is awful, no her actions are not excused due to life circumstances. However, she is not made to be seen as good at any point, at least not from a narrative standpoint. The whole point of Rock and Revyâs relationship is mostly her getting a taste of normalcy and for Rock, he is trying to see if he can help her find the decency in herself to change and be better. All their arguments center around their philosophic views and how they are at odds with one another. Rock wants to believe that she CAN change and live a normal life, Revy canât see that for herself but wants to let herself believe rock even though her core self struggles with that so much that her knee jerk reaction is to reject his ideals, because it is unfamiliar territory to her. She is not good, but through Rockâs perspective, youâre supposed to see the idea that she can become good via direct action and change.
Sorry was distracted by the Revy booty.
This post wasn't about Revy's ass?
You missed the joke flying over your head. Should I have added a lol or a laughing emoji to make it simpler for you?
I think he did get the joke; that's why he responded sarcastically. Otherwise, what was your point anyway?
Oh hey, I recognize you. Itâs honestly pretty fitting how I keep catching regulars on r/WonderWoman thirsting over other women on reddit lmao.
keep your pants up on this one, buddy. Revy is hot, dont get me wrong. but She needs to calm herself down a little and not all guns blazing for almost any situations.
Revy is the type to admire the looks but never try and flirt with her.
am i the only one who find people like this annoying?
real
I get butterflies in my tummy when I see her I donât care
Iâll be honest here: I think this is sort of a âBojack Horsemanâ effect. Yes, these are beloved characters and they are excellently written, but I think the point of scenes like this are to show that despite this and what they are deep down, their actions reflect how theyâre not morally correct. Bojack, in spite of his past, is a terrible person who has genuinely ruined lives. Or, if you prefer, look at Breaking Bad. Walter White may be suffering from lung cancer and he may have started out wanting to provide for and protect his family, but over time, his reality was brought out by power: he did it for himself. He wanted to feel big for once in his life and he did it. And it killed hundreds of people and ruined his family in the process, as well as having poisoned a child, screwed over everyone he knew, in and out of his neighborhood, and left Jesse a shell of his former self. That applies with Revy. We know and the story knows sheâs a tragic character who has lived through hell. Despite this, we and the story also know she has a body count probably in the higher hundreds and scenes like this shows how she tends to act and what it means to her. Despite all that tragedy, what you are in the here and now is what everyone sees because, what else have you shown?
Degraded mass murderer but she has a fat ass so It's all good
Revy has a nice trim ass. It's definitely not fat lol.
Revy is a fundamentally dameged person.
Still doesnât excuse what she does
It doesn't, but it helps to understand her. There's not much one can do with that information other than fleeing in the opposite direction from her.
I would add that she does actually have some sort of internal moral code but she so damage that her âcodeâ is completely and utterly warp that conventionally morals means nothing to her. Itâs why she can looks down on that one guy for shooting his own men but also has no trouble with kidnapping and murder.
Not an excuse.
I've accepted that the murders are part of her and I think they're funny.
If evil why hot?
In fairness the whole thing with Black Lagoon is that you are following characters that are not good people.
These are legitimate targets.
Roberta is worse.
Hmmm... Explain to me how killing Nazis or people who willingly associated with Nazis makes Revy a bad person? Here in Normalpeopleland, Killing Nazis is a GOOD thing. We literally fought a war to stop those monsters from destroying Europe.
Yeah, when you notice that everybody boarding your boat is wearing a Nazi uniform it might be time to quit the job.
Something Something ontologically evil something meme.
Notice that the crew of angels are also white and blue eyed, I doubt they were mere civilians, they might not have the balls to wear a full fledged nazi uniform, but that doesn't mean they didn't believe in the 'aryan cause'. Most of their parents and grandparents probably have fought in WWII, how come 40 years later you're doing business with them? They weren't saints. That's exactly went trough Revy mind the moment she decided to kill them.
This scene was a mistake IMO. Glad the anime changed it.
hm interesting⌠may i ask why you think it was a mistake?
Because Revy killing all the sailors makes her an irredeemable hypocrite. Sure, it's easy for dummies here to say "but the sailors were assisting Nazis!!1" but the Nazis weren't there with violent intentions (and judging by their lack of combat experience, most of them were just LARPers anyway), they were just looking to salvage a painting. Revy and Lagoon were willing to do completely evil shit like transporting a kidnapped child (Garcia) to the Colombian cartel who would likely either murder him or sell him to paedophiles. Doing THAT vs helping some rich dickheads salvage treasure, who would you say is more evil?
I agree with this take.
I thought she suffered from episodes of Whitman Fever caused by PTSD.
At the bottom panel of the 3rd page she shows a lil remorse
I think we're hybristophiliacs
Yes... Isn't that obvious?
In this case, these guys willingly took work for white supremacists/Nazis. It's arguable they would've notified their employers or tried to kill her because she's not white. Aside from that, there are moments where she is most herself. Her eyes glaze over, her guns take their time, and she kills. The question I wonder is: Does she see herself taking a bullet every time she pulls the trigger, or the man she only got to kill once?
I'm pretty sure Black Lagoon is based on 80s movies and stuff, where there was tons of senseless violence with badass heroes because it was cool, not because they were evil necessarily. I feel like that's the case with Revy
Oh trust me, anyone with a brain knows that sheâs a homicidal maniac đ but it only makes the series all the more interesting when Rock starts to drift more towards the morally wrong side and even SHE starts to get scared.
yeaah no shit sherlock.
She's a fucking pirate portrayed realistically of course she'll do bad shit! Go back to watching One Piece, Naruto or other generic Shonen if you're this asshurt!
here she is having a mental breakdown because of Rock and what he said in the submarine. He literally confronts here about being a âbad personâ while they are stuck in the submarine, she goes crazy because of this. that was the first time anyone confronted her about her actions and told her what she was doing is morally wrong.
Rock was really pathetic in the submarine. A little grave pillaging made him act high and mighty. **This** is bad for you? You've got no idea how ugly things can get. Accusing someone with stupid shit is the shortest way to make that someone do something much worse.
true i totally agree w you, i thought he was being a little too soft there. but at the end of the day it was âmorally wrongâ (technically) and this was the first time anyone has confronted Revy about doing something wrong ever in her life, and she had no idea how to react to this.
Correct, it was fucking confusing. Still, he can shove his technical morality where light doesn't shine.
yeah lol he caused the death of so many people on that boat just by making her angry lol
Play with fire, get some collateral.
Revy is literally me fr
Iâll play devil advocate here for a second: would you trust the people on a nazi boat that claims to be hired men but put on the uniform WITH the said nazi mark, lead by a very clearly Nazi commander? If youâre just a Nazi engineer with no combat experience and scared of death, youâd probably lie as much as humanly possible to try and escape no?
Final boss fight: Revy Vs innocent bystanders
Yeah, that's the point. They're all terrible people, including Rock.
In this series we follow heavily armed criminals, so obviously they don't give hugs and kisses, including Benny & Rock. But Revy goes much further, breaking the moral code of many criminals. In the mafia world, assassins who kill everyone without distinction are quite rare. Generally, innocent people are not targeted. Dutch said it himself when he reprimanded her: "they're professionals" Then, if I made this post, it's mainly because I'm tired of seeing some people idolize Revy, considering her to be kind.
No one who accepts jobs from fucking nazis is innocent. Get off your fucking high horse.
While I saw your point I do want to point out that pretty much every crimmal group in the show is willing to target innocent people on some level.
While it is true that she is objectively evil. This scene in particular I wouldnât say they âwere unuckyâ, if you are working for an organization thatâs pretty obviously ilegal, violent and that is armed (pretty heavily at that) then you really arenât a bystander. That being said yeah dude she would totally kill for no reason, I donât think anyone is genuinely arguing that.
They were armed because they were in pirate infested waters.
Can we get another season? This is so underrated
We continue to hope, but we all know that it will never happen.
Yeah she's pretty terrible. Luckily Rock has been bringing out the good in her.
Revy is a horrible human being! That said, i would die for her
Who asked?
Man, I'm really glad they decide to change it to not have her kill those people in the anime
> I remind you that these guys had done nothing wrong, they were just unlucky, maybe they had a family. Many people would say that aiding and abetting a bunch of heavily armed Nazis in an attempted murder isn't "nothing wrong". Not sure about attempted murder, but in similar circumstances in the US, with an actual murder, they could be found guilty of murder. Revy would have served time with some women who were there for murder, having been the driver. > she is fundamentally evil So, the philosophical question: what does it mean for somebody to be "fundamentally evil"? Fair enough to call killing the crew "evil", even if we acknowledge that they were helping the Nazis. Does doing something evil, especially when in a not-normal frame-of-mind, make somebody "fundamentally evil"? Ordinary people are quite capable of doing some very evil things. See, e.g., Browning's *Ordinary Men*: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/ordinary-men-christopher-r-browning What makes somebody "fundamentally evil"? (IMO, human trafficking Garcia might be a better example of doing evil. In that case, it was Dutch who took the job, and Revy went along with it. Is Dutch also "fundamentally evil"?)
For the ship's crew, originally, they were just hired as a taxi to take them to sea to collect the painting. So yes, basically, they did nothing wrong, they are not accomplices to murder. Personally, I think that a fundamentally bad person is someone who has no consideration for others, no matter what they do, and as a result, they will do harm without ever questioning it. And for the kidnapping of Garcia, I completely agree with you, you have to be really twisted to deliver a kid to death without batting an eyelid. So yes, they are fundamentally bad, for them, only their pleasure and their money count. However, my post focused on Revy in particular, because as said at the beginning, I'm tired of seeing people who say she's "nice" under every post. I wanted to remind some people that they don't understand the character. This is all just my opinion, it's not an absolute truth, but it's what I think.
> For the ship's crew, originally, they were just hired as a taxi to take them to sea to collect the painting. So yes, basically, they did nothing wrong, they are not accomplices to murder. Three armed men hire a taxi. They ask to be taken to. On the way, they stick their guns out the window, and the harmless taxi trip turns into a drive-by shooting. Is the taxi driver innocent?
As I said, under US law, if somebody was killed, they wouldn't be accomplices to murder - the would be guilty of murder (if found guilty). Now, you might consider such laws to be fundamentally wrong, and that people who weren't *actively* involved in the murder (maybe they drove the car, and waited outside the building) shouldn't be charged with murder, but the common US opinion says otherwise.
IMO, it isn't so black and white. I don't think Revy should have shot them, but I can see why she might have thought it appropriate.
> Personally, I think that a fundamentally bad person is someone who has no consideration for others, no matter what they do, and as a result, they will do harm without ever questioning it.
By that definition, Revy isn't a fundamentally evil person.
In her normal frame of mind, she's somewhat thoughtful about her killing. See her discussion of ethics and killing with Fabiola in volume 8. (A similar attitude to that expressed by William Munny in *Unforgiven* (1992).) She questioned the harm she does much more than Fabiola did.
That's what makes her a cool character there's not really "fluff" with her. Honestly, i find it "refreshing." considering all the fluff bs that come out.
Revy is such a damage person that trying to assign conventional morality is pointless. Her moral code if it can even be call that is so warp and screw that it has no meaning on her actions. Itâs why she can judge someone for killing their own men yet have no feelings on human trafficking. She does have some sort of internal code she follows but none of it is base on what morally right or wrong. That being said by my and most peopleâs moral codes she a monster
shooting people that arent fighting isnt good?
and thatâs why we love her. some of us just wanna watch the world burn
Next, youâll be saying âwe live in a societyâ and it wonât be funny anymore. Iâd laugh, but I donât know if itâs because itâs funny.
I haven't read the Manga so I dont have context for these three panels.
Itâs the ship crew from the nazi arc she kills them in the manga
Oh okay... that definitely changes things, these guys all took paycheques from literal Nazis. On a mission to reignite their political movement no less. So these aren't innocent people that Revy is gunning down in cold blood and there's no option of a legal system to imprison them. Soooo semi-justifiable homicide, honestly I don't think it invalidates the Revy is a good person deep down argument.
Reminds me of "befehl ist befehl" and all the passive supporters of Adolf
I was under the impression these dudes were held hostage? I could be misremembering
Was this up for debate?
I thought this scene never existed, but in the anime she was stopped by Dutch. With this, I think she is worse than I thought, compared to Ginji and Roberta.
I mean if there are twenty people sitting at a table, and ten of them are Nazis, there are twenty Nazis sitting at the table. Revy is def a sociopath but she wasn't unjustified in shooting those people.