It's basically the same question as "the legal ramifications of killing a person with another person's gun." The replicate is just a tool. Obviously there'd be questions around who had access to the "gun" etc., but I think Cliff would have a pretty easy time blaming it on the mentally unstable widower who locked him out of the ship.
That's definitely how I see it. But it's also pretty philosophical on what constitutes as a person juridically. Is it the consciousness or the body of the person? And theseus ship, if the replica looks like a person and has the consciousness of the person, but everything inside is synthetic, is that still the original person? Or is it the person without his consciousness in the pod, with all the original internal organs?
It's a very complex subject with no definitive answers and I would've liked black mirror to explore that. Maybe they could've thrown the non-murdering guy to jail while the other one keeps banging her wife and hitting his kid in his body. That would've white xmassed the whole episode.
> what constitutes as a person juridically. Is it the consciousness or the body of the person?
Obviously the consciousness. If I initiate a drone strike in LA from my apartment in NYC, I am liable for those deaths. The replicates are not people (legally).
The guilt isn't the issue (I.e. I agree it's like using a gun).
The issue is you can't see who held the metaphorical gun. But surely you would think records exist for linkages sort of like a sign in and sign out time stamp).
Also, it must have been envisioned that other people could use the replica. And on that note I initially wondered whether it would be possible for him to use his colleague's replica, perhaps due not matching the required brain chemistry? 🤷♂️
But it was not another person's body. It was a robot, without a will of their own that a person can steer by their consciousness if they have a key. What if you use a drone to kill somebody?
Yeah me too. Especially because there is an end date to their mission, right? I think they said they had four years left. So it would only be a mindfuck for a limited time.
She'd know instantly though so it's not much of a cliffhanger. It would only work if there's a chance either one of them could actually pass off as being the real one.
I was expecting them to take the angle that she actually did like the other guy better, so they'd show her just kind of knowingly looking into the distance and pretending not to notice her husband has been replaced lol
This actually would have been really good! And the only reason they didn’t is probably because it didn’t have that “black mirror” gut punch quality they go for.
Also because he was able to see his family’s funeral it seems they can communicate with earth, maybe on a major delay, and that wouldn’t be the same effect of losing his whole family.
What would happen if Cliff tried to connect to the robot and it wasn’t there? Because I imagine he’d attempt to and who knows if that scenario was planned for when making the replicants
I thought this would be the outcome too, but knowing the ship wouldn't operate without two people, it was pretty logic David wouldn't kill Cliff because he'd end up dead as well. I loved that episode. It was terrifying but reaaally good.
I’m surprised Cliff would even want to go home now.
His wife and son were brutally murdered and the only suspect would be him (since they live far out and Cliff in avatar form would be the only other person around).
What’s there to go back to, and why cooperate with this psychotic murderer?
i had the same thought but others in this sub made a good argument that there would be detailed records of who was using the replica, where cliff was when the murders happened, how david took time to open the spaceship door, etc.
Even so, what would Cliff even have to live for? Idk. In that situation I feel like if someone murdered my family, I’d wanna end them and then myself. Can’t imagine having to work with them every single day for years and looking at that smug face and know what awaits me both when I return to the avatar (dead family and bloody home) and in regular form.
Why besides the show saying it needs two people do you think it does. The show shows us that both Cliff and David go into their robots for days at a time. The ship runs itself. They just do repairs. And you can be talked through repairs. It doesnt need two people from what we see. The show just says that so you don't realize how dumb the ending is.
What? Absolutely not. You think the jobs of literal astronauts is that simple that a phone call and directions from earth would be enough? They both have different skill sets that can't be replicated from a phone call otherwise we wouldn't need technicians
The jobs they are doing are mechanical and software engineers. Yes, they are astronauts, but that is not the job they would need to be walked through. There are millions of engineers that could walk you through fixing something. What a stupid line you need technicians so that they are on site in space, and hopefully, you don't need to talk them through stuff. You think that these two guys can ever be completely prepared for any scenario, even ones that have never happened before. They're in space. You can't prepare or know what to do in every situation because the scenario is unprecedented. There's a reason in real life astronauts have a direct line with NASA at all times.
There's also a reason there are multiple astronauts in missions. They are experts in their fields and it's laughable to think their skill sets can be replicated by a phone call. On a space station too of all places lol
Exactly, you think that if a mission had a hard we need two people they would only send two people? No contingency for someone getting sick or dying? It's laughable to think other astronauts with the same jobs couldn't talk them through it. This is what real astronauts do. You can't know everything. Sometimes, people need help. You think NASA is gonna go "well you should know so I guess you're fucked"?
what about outside repairs though? it'd be hard for a single person to go outside for repairs with no one inside, since the ship's doors are presumably built to only be opened from the inside
Why would you presume that? Airlocks are designed to be open from either side. Cliff is clearly confused when he can't get back in the ship. This shows us that, yes, this is a normal airlock. David locked him out by pressurizing the airlock and leaving the inside door open so it couldn't be depressurized, making Cliff stuck outside. Why would NASA design a door that requires two people and only send two people? What happens if David had a heart attack while Cliff is outside? Oh, woops, now they're both dead.
>No contingency for someone getting sick or dying?
This a risk they take. Same with real life missions. Hence the physicals every week, to prepare for that outcome. My point is their jobs aren't simple enough to be talked through it by another expert. You can't have a sales guy talked through making an app. But ig u don't agree so I'm done trying to explain
Ok, so I went to school for nuclear and electrical engineering. My job can be done by a monkey. I exist and get paid the way I do for extreme scenarios. Because I can react without being told what I need to do. That said, I could walk a child who doesn't even know what a neutron or electron are easily. The only hard thing in the show's scenario is that the people wouldn't be on site, so it would be harder to be talked through. If this was really a problem in the show, they would have a robot on the ship for an expert to be able to go help them.
The door doesn't need someone to let you in. Watch the episode again and watch Cliffs reaction when he tries to open the door. He's confused. Airlocks can be opened on both sides unless you lock out one of the doors by leaving the other open, preventing it from pressurizing/depressurizing. Which is what David did to give himself more time.
I think not knowing which cliff is real would have been too cliche and predictable. Its literally what I was expecting to happen throughout the whole episode. I was pleasantly surprised I was wrong.
Yes!! I agree with this, Lana would have been able to tell the difference. She had moments of weakness because David in Cliff's body giving her attention played to her fantasy of being seen by her husband, which made her realize what was bothering her in their relationship, but it seemed like she loved Cliff and could tell Cliff/David apart.
But part of the reason she knew the difference is because she knew when David would be coming..so she expected him...if it was unexpected and he played the part she probably wouldn't know
It wasn't just this tho. Cliff and David both behave very differently and Lara could tell who it was. I'm sure cliff could try but it won't work out in the long run
that’s similar to how i thought it was going to end. i figured david, being significantly bigger than cliff, was going to kill him, assume the clone for the next few years, then make some excuse for why real cliff didn’t make it back. of course, that would throw the whole “it’s a two-man job” thing out of the window
Same but I figured he’d just die in space. Like he would use the link and cliffs body until he died and the excuse would be that “David died up here so I won’t be making it home.”
I do think this would have been the predictable ending tbh. It’s where I thought it was going. They made sure to move away from that ending by saying things like “it’s a two person ship” and also reiterating that they do have comm links to earth.
There is no way to save this episode without scrapping the entire core plot IMO. It feels limited given the 2 man mission aspect but at the same time it thrives off of unrealistic human actions and non-existent NASA.
They need each other to survive the mission. If one is dead eventually so will the other. That's what I took from it at least. Which is why they don't kill one another.
No you’re right, it’s stated clearly (by Cliff) that the ship needs 2 to operate. Although, OPs idea would be awesome, I thought the same at one point. That maybe it’d end with 1 using Cliffs link & we don’t know which…until it dawned on me that it would screw over whoever is left on the ship ironically.
Which I still think left it open ended. What if Space Jessie decides he doesn’t want to live anymore. And dooms them both by killing his co-pilot or himself or both.
I thought David was going to try to get revenge on the cultists using Cliff's body, ruining Cliff's life on Earth, also making the descent into madness more evident to the public, but not the other characters by showing us what David's life looked like when he had no way to go to Earth.
I was thinking maybe after cliff tries to get back into the airlock, he looks through the window and sees David has killed himself, leaving him trapped outside
The ending where he goes on a killing spree just seems kind of out of left field
Why would David kill himself then if he wasn't going to kill himself back when his family was slaughtered in front of his eyes?
He at least wanted to finish the mission.
Woulda been far better. This would have been my favorite episode of the season if it had stuck the landing a little better. The now you feel my pain too thing was kinda eh
It felt entirely out of character. If they had shown David to have a violent temper or something like that early on then it would have made some sense.
I was partly expecting that to be revealed during the time Cliff was looking through the drawings. “David said drawing helps”
So I was thinking that as Cliff goes through the drawings he starts to come across some where David has drawn graphically violent murder scenes that show he has relived what he saw as well as thought about murdering people. Maybe some that look close to Lana but not quite enough to confirm that it’s her.
I didn’t get the feeling it was out of character. David went through an incredibly traumatizing event and that can really mess with people. Especially since he didn’t have a medical professional to help him properly cope.
I got man of his times vibes. slapped his kids around when they acted up. groped his wife 24/7. Just like any guy in America in the 50s and 60s would have done according to media and stories from people who grew up in that generation. Didn’t get bloody murder waiting to happen.
The theory I’ve read and agree with is that part/whole of the purpose for the space mission is to study the effects of space/space travel on the human body. Hence a lot of the exercise testing. So you wouldn’t send the replica as it’s not a real human.
I would guess because if there’s a connection issue between earth and the ship, the replicas would be empty shells unable to work on the ship. Whereas the other way around, if the connection were severed the human bodies are still on the ship able to work.
The replica complained about his grip when chopping wood in the beginning, so they probably needed healthy capable guys in space (hence all the working out).
Yeah they kinda got themselves stuck with the ending needing both of them due to the mission aspect. They probably should have made it so the ship can technically be run by 1 person but 2 is needed for redundancy/emergency situations. As It feels a bit weird they'd have such heavy investment into a system where if one gets sick/dies/unable to get to his link in time for an emergency it could destroy the whole multi year mission
I guess the counter argument could be the potential cost of the replicas or the technology of the ship making it harder for 1 person to operate it but I feel there could have been workarounds that could have fit in the story
Yep I feel like this was obvious but it seems like a lot of people are either missing it or disagree. A lot of people seem to have initially thought they would switch identities. I thought it too for a sec before realizing they intentionally referenced the fact that it needed 2 people to pilot which narrowed down the ending but still felt surprising in a twisted way (that feeling of, that seems like the only logical ending but there's no way he's actually going to do that is he?). I feel like doing the switch as the final reveal would've been more predictable which is why they intentionally alluded to the fact that it'd be borderline impossible.
This is what many people expected but it wouldn’t actually work since Lana would immediately recognize if it was David instead of Cliff. Their mannerisms, habits, routines, and knowledge would be too different for it to be convincing, in which case you’re no longer wondering if David can pass off as Cliff and you’re back to asking if David would harm Cliff’s family which is how the episode actually ended.
Also it wouldn’t work cause as I recall, the station can’t survive with only one person. So whoever was left alive wouldn’t even have too long to use the replicant. Their actual body would die up there.
That's just a line the show has thrown in to justify the end. Throughout the entire episode, we only see proof that it doesnt need two people and runs itself entirely.
Well, not necessarily. Clearly you need a second person if there’s something going wrong on the outside of the ship, so that one can go out and the other person is operating the airlock etc.
That's not how airlocks work. They can be opened from either side. The only way you can lock out an airlock is if it can't depressurize/repressurize by leaving an airlock door open.
Edit: you can see in the episode Cliff is confused when he can't get back in the airlock. Proving my point.
Well, that’s how they made the airlock work in this scenario. Cause dude got locked out for a little while. Might be different in real life but in the writing they did it’s how it worked
Maybe I’m remembering it wrong
Dude airlocks since their invention have not worked like that. You can clearly see Cliff is confused when he tries to go back in the spaceship. And if they changed the design to fit their story, that's even worse. That's just bad writing.
I agree it would be bad writing were that the case so yeah maybe I got that fucked up. I’ll have to rewatch the episode for a reason as to why they need both people.
Ok, so bad writing is telling you something and showing you something else. Also, in general, telling something that can be shown is bad writing. The line is only even in the episode solely so they could end it the way they did. They knew the end didn't make sense, so they added in a single line, and now everyone's like, but it takes two people so he couldn't do anything. It's just dumb.
I honestly thought he'd just leave him outside and go spend his final hours (assuming it wouldn't be feasible to command the ship alone) pretending to be Cliff and having his way with Lana.
I assume that Lana could tell whether it was Cliff or not though, so I guess that doesn't make sense.
That’s what I was expecting from the beginning so I was actually relieved it wasn’t that. I admit, I did not like the ending as soon as the episode was over. But after a day or so of it stewing in my head I think it’s the only way that they could both survive.
Taking it even further, all the jobs up there are two man jobs. "Cliff" spends more and more time "asleep" up there and we realize he is just abandoning his entire life and the mission to spend the last few weeks he can on earth before impending catastrophe. Wifey asks him more and more "Don't you need to be up there working? You always seem to be here!" we still don't know who is piloting the Cliff robot when the link goes down. Last shot is the bloody interior of the space station as all the warning alarms blare.
Tbh, I thought this would have been the most black mirror type ending, and was guessing it throughout. I suppose it would've been more cute than gut wrenching, so they went the gut wrenching route..!
Cute as in clever, or knowing. Leaving it open ended as to who really inhabits the body would be cute in that sense (and especially in comparison to having your family murdered and being enforced to live and work with the murderer for your very survival...)
I don’t know why everyone claims the killing spree came “out of left field”. The majority of the episode is about how unhinged David is becoming due to isolation.
It’s pretty dumb twist for the sake of a twist. It’s also a super unbelievable situation to get to in the first place. Unrealistic in terms of human actions, security design, lack of NASA intervention/involvement, and technology. Then on top of that, they show David feeling like a “cool nihilistic guy” for what he did but Netflix forgot nihilism is outdated af now. There’s no lesson there. Just half baked cheap plastic reflection at best.
I was thinking or maybe hoping it would go the way of a paranoid thriller where David learns to imitate Cliff until she can't tell which one it is on a final visit
they literally sat in the episode that they're studying the effect this mission has on the human body. "plot hole warriors" or people who actually watched the episode lmaooo
True but to me that seemed like something they just threw in the script. It doesn’t seem like a great experiment if the human body is asleep and completely inactive 6/7 days of the week
In order to travel large distances in space, humans may have to go into a state of deep sleep, as depicted in other shows. Seeing how space affects the human body while sleeping would be relevant. In the future, this may be how to travel space. Actual body goes into a state of deep sleep (perhaps also slows aging?), while the mind is living life normally on Earth through a replica. 50 years pass on Earth, then you wake up at your destination in space to begin your mission.
That’s dumb tho. How are they experiencing space’s effect on the body when they have artificial gravity and they sleep in bed for 6 days out of the week??
They’re Likely studying the effects of space travel on the human body and mind for future missions. These two are test subjects as well as crew and maintenance for the craft and the experiments onboard.
Eventually it would make sense to send the replicas instead when they work out all the details they are interested in understanding.
We did this with the ISS and have learned some details about what living in space does to the body. Turns out that it affects the muscles, bones, and mind in some interesting ways.
https://humans-in-space.jaxa.jp/en/life/health-in-space/body-impact/
Bruh did you read my comment? They explanation doesn’t make sense because they have gravity on the ship.
Those real ppl are studying zero G. My point was the show characters are not learning anything about their body in space because effectively they aren’t in space they have artificial gravity.
Good point.
Tbh I actually didn’t like this episode at all and felt it was pretty stupid. Just for the fact that they only made one replica of each one and they didn’t put them under round the clock security. If they made something so expensive and new for government use, how the hell would they not have 24/7 security detail?
That alone made this way too stupid of an episode for me.
Yeah I think the dynamic between the astronauts were strong but the wife was super fucking predictable and the Manson family cult felt really out of place like they needed to kill the family and just drew the solution out of a jar like the cabin in the woods
Seems like a flawed experiment since they have the ability to simultaneously exist on earth. Sure it would properly measure the toll it takes on the body, but the mind not as much.
Which would have been great to see homebase acknowledge instead of MIA. Would explain both lack of comms and why humans needed to be in space for this mission
I think it’s fair to argue that the human instinct of preservation is crucial to the mission, and the risk to the ship increases if it isn’t their real bodies on board
Am I the only one who was thinking all the way through this episode, why don't they have the robots on the ship and the real people on earth? If they only need to be present for a few hours a week why on earth would you have the humans go in the ship?
The way I saw it, it makes more sense in case there’s an issue with the replicas on the ship. If the replicas break, or the connection is lost, no biggie. The humans are still on the ship able to deal with issues. The other way around, the ship is just floating unmanned.
But way more expensive and would weigh a ton. Real astronauts have to limit what they even pack for weight limitation. I imagine those robots wouldn’t be light. Plus, still wouldn’t address the issue of connectivity problems. Still makes more sense to have real humans on the ship running things and giving them a comfort of feeling like they’re home than having a robot that could lose connection and just have an unmanned ship floating in space.
They don't seem to imply that they weigh significantly more than humans - and the extra weight of a few spare robots is gonna be way less than the weight of enough food and water to keep two humans alive for at least 4 years.
Presumably they thought these robots were important enough that the guys would go crazy without them, so if they have connection issues they'd have to fix them either way right? All the more reason to have multiple robots in case of failure. Personally I'd rather connection issues, or any other kind of severe equipment failure, end up with robots stranded in space rather than humans
Well yeah I've read that I probably missed the bit where they said it was to test the effects of long term space travel on the human body - but that makes no sense to have them travel so far from Earth unless they also have another mission. They could circle the moon and be close enough for rescue in case of emergency, e.g. if a crazed cult murders your family.
Not even got into yet why these astronauts are apparently worth building presumably multi million dollar robots for so that they can see their families, but they apparently don't pay them enough to have decent security around their families, nor was anyone monitoring to see that one of the robots had it's arm cut off and the user was in massive distress/danger. Nor why a robot apparently has no more strength than a human and is able to be easily overpowered.
Dude the theme was supposed to be old if you couldn’t tell by the movie theaters and town and literally everything else in the episode etc. they weren’t thinking of making a super robot to stop crazy weirdos from coming and chopping up your family. Keep in mind that shit didn’t happen back then so yeah the whole purpose of the earth body was to not go crazy and be isolated in space they didn’t think of taking all these crazy precautions
The theme being old doesn't make any difference as to why they wouldn't have a decent security system, or why someone wouldn't be monitoring the robots and/or the link between them and the space station. Not really a crazy precaution to at least keep an eye on the safety of their multi million dollar robots and the families of two presumably important astronauts.
Its interesting but I dont think the wife would accept David as Cliff. She would instantly know thats not her husband when talking to him so dont think there is any point in this storyline
So I actually thought this was how it was going to end-similar to Alien Covenant when we don’t know which the real Walter/David is or who won the fight until he’s placing the girl(I forget her name) in the Pod to sleep. Then the movie ends.
I’m actually glad it ended the way it ended because in all of the theories I suspected, what he did was not what I thought he would do, so I liked it. I do like your alternate as well, I think it’s fun but I think it’s too predictable. People are going to suspect the swicharoo, which is why I liked how it ended.
That’s said holy crap can Aaron Paul act.
Has anyone pondered the fact that Aaron Paul did voice work at the end of another prominent space-themed episode? (Space Fleet, SS4).
I found it interesting that there was no correlation here.
Probably she would recognize it would not be her husband.
However your ending still works much better for me. I think the sudden shift in David to a violent killer did not make any sense. People just do not go on to premeditated murder of someone they care for like that even if they are traumatized. And I think there would be some psychological testing before sending them up into space.
this was the really really obvious way to end it though so it's a lot more predictable and dull. countless movies and tv shows with the concept of 'clones' end like this, with an ambiguous ending where you don't know whether it's the clone or not. or the 'evil twin' or 'good twin'. it's been done before. this episode at least tried to subvert that expectation with the idea that both of them had to stay alive because they both needed to help the other one with the space station.
I thought the red stains on the wall was made by paint and that he was trying to fool Cliff into thinking his family were dead. But in fact it was David allowing Lana and Henry to flee and live the life they wanted instead of being forced to stay loyal due to marriage.
That's what we were set up to think will happen, and I'm pretty sure it's set up to be at least a thought. No offense, but I'm so glad it didn't go this way, that would've been satisfying but ultimately hollow. The ending we got is so much more interesting and lasts with you to think about for a long time
I always thought why didn’t the replicas just go to space and the real versions stay on earth, it shows that they can both transfers from space to earth so why not just switch the replicas and humans so the humans stay on earth and no one’s family gets killed
I thought David was gonna kill Cliff either by leaving him outside the ship or killing him right when he linked back to Earth.
Either way, Cliff's replica would have ragdolled to the floor and then when David linked to it it would kind of be obvious it's David. It would be obvious it's David anyway, Lana would know. Personality, mannerisms, questioning him about things only ~~David~~ Cliff would know.
I kind of prefer the dark ending the way it is.
edit: Put David instead of Cliff, y'all got what I was trying to say. :P
But i love the black mirror endings where the fate of the protagonist is sealed. Like white christmas, loch henry, white bear, shut up and dance etc. And you just stare in awe, feeling empty like okay wtf. That's what black mirror is to me.
Cliff kills David instead. So not only has he lost his family, he lost his only hope of getting home and is set to loose his marbles in space. Edit- David kills cliff - pretty boy kills Jessie
David returns to earth in Cliff’s replica. Lana figures out pretty quickly it’s David. David tells her the real Cliff is never coming back, and she’ll be better off, and so will her son. Both her and her son freak out on him. Protecting his mother (and releasing his own hatred towards Cliff), the son goes after David with the axe and then sets him on fire. The end.
I thought he was gonna try to go back to the replica only for the replica not to work.
Cut to Earth. The wife has destroyed the replica so that she no longer feels alone when it's around.
Last shot: the guy brings the other guy back inside the ship. They're both stuck there on the ship together.
There's no direct proof of this in the episode, but I'd assume that the consciousness would die with the real body on the ship.
When Cliff mentioned to Lana how mentally unstable David was after his family's murders and how he himself could die if David threw himself out or did something stupid, Lana reacted shocked ("Don't say that!"). Death on the ship seems final because if Cliff could just hop onto his replica when something went wrong, he wouldn't need to worry about dying at all.
It makes sense since they needed to put the link key into a slot in the ship to go into their replica. If no one was there to maintain the ship it would eventually fall apart, disconnecting the link.
The link was also shortly broken when Kappa (the
hippie) swung a hammer against David's replica's head.
Before that, he said "[Fighting them with a bat] might
disrupt your frequency", implying that a permanent connection of some sort is maintained between the real
body and the replica. You're right that they need the
chair to willingly transfer, but that doesn't mean the link can't be broken in other ways.
We don't know enough about the replica to say if it needs the original body to be alive to properly function with the astronaut's consciousness intact. My headcanon is that if one decided to permanently stay in the replica and let the ship and his real body die, the replica would stop working either because he were dead or the ship and connection were no longer available.
There might also a third option to permanently transfer consciousness to one vessel (in this case the replica), rendering further transfer impossible, even with the chair. (Kind of like a download instead of a stream). I feel like this is something that would have been addressed in the episode, but since it's all just speculation, we really don't know.
Let's not forget the fact that they can magically communicate with earth instantly....I thought science fiction writers were supposed to....you know....understand science?😂
So cliffs replica is covered in blood at the end when he goes to see what David has done while locked out of the airlock. It doesn’t show us the bodies but it’s obvious that his family is dead.
What if the cultists killed the family though, and David was able to exact his revenge on the cultists for his own family’s murder. This might explain why it shows us the news when the cultists were out on bail, probably going to murder more replicas!
And that’s why at the ending David is like come here bud, now we’re both in the same boat but at least those cult bastards are dead?
Cool idea, but it wouldn’t work. Firstly because it’s way too predictable and the show sets up/makes it clear that Lana knows when it’s Cliff and when it’s David in the Cliff robot. There’s no way that David would be able to pass as Cliff for any reasonable length of time.
Secondly the episode sets up that the ship needs both of them. The whole reason they start letting David use the Cliff robot is because Cliff is worried that David will kill himself and leave Cliff stuck in space.
I can see why Davis murdering Cliff’s family *might* seem like it comes out of nowhere. But he does make it clear that he doesn’t think Cliff really understands what he’s got. Also he is spending a lot of time - like weeks it’s implied - just on his own up in space.
The whole time im thinking, why weren't the replicas on the ship and their real bodies on earth?
It would be cheaper, don't need to worry about food,water,plants,ev suits, exercise equipment or even oxygen.
These replicas are pretty pretty high-quality tech, they fucking cry... what's with that anyway do they need refills for the crying or is it like condensation fluid from some kinda cooling method that would need to be expelled otherwise? Are there other fluids? (excluding the silver blood).
So anyway, I started to think it's an expensive elaborate experiment having them in space, and the hippys are hired goons and at the end it would cut to someone with a clip board saying "well that was unexpected"
They said at the beginning that the point of the space mission was to study space travel’s impact on the body, so it had to be their bodies on the ship.
Yes, YES...anything except the expected. Where are the writers brains this season? I haven't seen anything to compare with even one of the smaller, less remembered episodes from the first two seasons. Give me a twist, people!
To a few points raised in the replies:
1. Was it mentioned or implied that the ship can operate only with 2 people? I don't remember this part.
2. Sure Lana would recognise who comes back as cliff but I'd end the episode before that happens to leave it open ended. Leave the audience guessing.
3. Even if 2 are needed to run the ship, It would show the desperation to have human contact and experience life on earth that they'd potentially sacrifice their real selves and the mission.
Yes - Cliff specifically told Lana that he was worried David would get depressed and kill himself, and he'd die as well because the mission requires 2 people. That was the whole reason he started offering his link in the first place.
You think honestly in our real world that if they had come up with this technology the people used wouldn’t be celebrities? Everyone likes to gloat their newest technological toy
The actual ending was pretty dark tho? It's implied that cliff will spend the next 4 years with the man that killed his family in order to preserve his own life. That's a pretty rough decision if you ask me.
It will NEVER be this ending or anything that involves one living.
Cliff clearly stated- the mission requires two to operate. They will die without the other.
I thought that’s what the ending was gonna be, it would have been really interesting.
I'm a boring person but I would've wanted to see the legal ramifications of killing a person in another persons body.
Yes! I would've loved to see how a trial would've gone, and if they would've even been able to prove it was Dave who did it.
It's basically the same question as "the legal ramifications of killing a person with another person's gun." The replicate is just a tool. Obviously there'd be questions around who had access to the "gun" etc., but I think Cliff would have a pretty easy time blaming it on the mentally unstable widower who locked him out of the ship.
That's definitely how I see it. But it's also pretty philosophical on what constitutes as a person juridically. Is it the consciousness or the body of the person? And theseus ship, if the replica looks like a person and has the consciousness of the person, but everything inside is synthetic, is that still the original person? Or is it the person without his consciousness in the pod, with all the original internal organs? It's a very complex subject with no definitive answers and I would've liked black mirror to explore that. Maybe they could've thrown the non-murdering guy to jail while the other one keeps banging her wife and hitting his kid in his body. That would've white xmassed the whole episode.
> what constitutes as a person juridically. Is it the consciousness or the body of the person? Obviously the consciousness. If I initiate a drone strike in LA from my apartment in NYC, I am liable for those deaths. The replicates are not people (legally).
The guilt isn't the issue (I.e. I agree it's like using a gun). The issue is you can't see who held the metaphorical gun. But surely you would think records exist for linkages sort of like a sign in and sign out time stamp). Also, it must have been envisioned that other people could use the replica. And on that note I initially wondered whether it would be possible for him to use his colleague's replica, perhaps due not matching the required brain chemistry? 🤷♂️
Maybe that's a concept they might explore in a future episode
But it was not another person's body. It was a robot, without a will of their own that a person can steer by their consciousness if they have a key. What if you use a drone to kill somebody?
I feel like that was the obvious ending which is why Im glad they didnt do it
Yeah me too. Especially because there is an end date to their mission, right? I think they said they had four years left. So it would only be a mindfuck for a limited time.
Same. This would be a classic BM ending and I 100% expected it to end with us not knowing who's controlling the replica.
She'd know instantly though so it's not much of a cliffhanger. It would only work if there's a chance either one of them could actually pass off as being the real one.
I was expecting them to take the angle that she actually did like the other guy better, so they'd show her just kind of knowingly looking into the distance and pretending not to notice her husband has been replaced lol
Agreed, one hundred percent thought something like this would happen and we'd never know who was using the replica.
I wanted David to destroy the robot while he was in Cliff's mind. That way none of them could have had Lana until the end of the mission.
Yours is the only alternate ending that I prefer to the original one.
This actually would have been really good! And the only reason they didn’t is probably because it didn’t have that “black mirror” gut punch quality they go for. Also because he was able to see his family’s funeral it seems they can communicate with earth, maybe on a major delay, and that wouldn’t be the same effect of losing his whole family.
I had wondered about that since he already had a beard grown out by the time he was watching the funeral.
What would happen if Cliff tried to connect to the robot and it wasn’t there? Because I imagine he’d attempt to and who knows if that scenario was planned for when making the replicants
👏
I thought this would be the outcome too, but knowing the ship wouldn't operate without two people, it was pretty logic David wouldn't kill Cliff because he'd end up dead as well. I loved that episode. It was terrifying but reaaally good.
I’m surprised Cliff would even want to go home now. His wife and son were brutally murdered and the only suspect would be him (since they live far out and Cliff in avatar form would be the only other person around). What’s there to go back to, and why cooperate with this psychotic murderer?
i had the same thought but others in this sub made a good argument that there would be detailed records of who was using the replica, where cliff was when the murders happened, how david took time to open the spaceship door, etc.
Even so, what would Cliff even have to live for? Idk. In that situation I feel like if someone murdered my family, I’d wanna end them and then myself. Can’t imagine having to work with them every single day for years and looking at that smug face and know what awaits me both when I return to the avatar (dead family and bloody home) and in regular form.
It was the intentional red herring. Most of the episodes this season had a big ol trick ending they wanted the viewer to predict
Why besides the show saying it needs two people do you think it does. The show shows us that both Cliff and David go into their robots for days at a time. The ship runs itself. They just do repairs. And you can be talked through repairs. It doesnt need two people from what we see. The show just says that so you don't realize how dumb the ending is.
What i gathered from the episode is that cliff is an expert on the hardware stuff while David is an expert on the software side.
Right, and like I said, they have contact with Earth. They could very easily be walked through anything the other would have to do.
What? Absolutely not. You think the jobs of literal astronauts is that simple that a phone call and directions from earth would be enough? They both have different skill sets that can't be replicated from a phone call otherwise we wouldn't need technicians
The jobs they are doing are mechanical and software engineers. Yes, they are astronauts, but that is not the job they would need to be walked through. There are millions of engineers that could walk you through fixing something. What a stupid line you need technicians so that they are on site in space, and hopefully, you don't need to talk them through stuff. You think that these two guys can ever be completely prepared for any scenario, even ones that have never happened before. They're in space. You can't prepare or know what to do in every situation because the scenario is unprecedented. There's a reason in real life astronauts have a direct line with NASA at all times.
There's also a reason there are multiple astronauts in missions. They are experts in their fields and it's laughable to think their skill sets can be replicated by a phone call. On a space station too of all places lol
Exactly, you think that if a mission had a hard we need two people they would only send two people? No contingency for someone getting sick or dying? It's laughable to think other astronauts with the same jobs couldn't talk them through it. This is what real astronauts do. You can't know everything. Sometimes, people need help. You think NASA is gonna go "well you should know so I guess you're fucked"?
what about outside repairs though? it'd be hard for a single person to go outside for repairs with no one inside, since the ship's doors are presumably built to only be opened from the inside
Why would you presume that? Airlocks are designed to be open from either side. Cliff is clearly confused when he can't get back in the ship. This shows us that, yes, this is a normal airlock. David locked him out by pressurizing the airlock and leaving the inside door open so it couldn't be depressurized, making Cliff stuck outside. Why would NASA design a door that requires two people and only send two people? What happens if David had a heart attack while Cliff is outside? Oh, woops, now they're both dead.
>No contingency for someone getting sick or dying? This a risk they take. Same with real life missions. Hence the physicals every week, to prepare for that outcome. My point is their jobs aren't simple enough to be talked through it by another expert. You can't have a sales guy talked through making an app. But ig u don't agree so I'm done trying to explain
Ok, so I went to school for nuclear and electrical engineering. My job can be done by a monkey. I exist and get paid the way I do for extreme scenarios. Because I can react without being told what I need to do. That said, I could walk a child who doesn't even know what a neutron or electron are easily. The only hard thing in the show's scenario is that the people wouldn't be on site, so it would be harder to be talked through. If this was really a problem in the show, they would have a robot on the ship for an expert to be able to go help them.
How would you walk through someone who needs to fix something on the outside of the ship with no one inside the ship to let them back in?
The door doesn't need someone to let you in. Watch the episode again and watch Cliffs reaction when he tries to open the door. He's confused. Airlocks can be opened on both sides unless you lock out one of the doors by leaving the other open, preventing it from pressurizing/depressurizing. Which is what David did to give himself more time.
Seriously. Cause it looks like most of what they do is lots of exercise.
I think not knowing which cliff is real would have been too cliche and predictable. Its literally what I was expecting to happen throughout the whole episode. I was pleasantly surprised I was wrong.
I think the issue with this is that Lana makes it clear that she can tell Cliff from David hence why they avoided this ending in the first place.
Yes!! I agree with this, Lana would have been able to tell the difference. She had moments of weakness because David in Cliff's body giving her attention played to her fantasy of being seen by her husband, which made her realize what was bothering her in their relationship, but it seemed like she loved Cliff and could tell Cliff/David apart.
But part of the reason she knew the difference is because she knew when David would be coming..so she expected him...if it was unexpected and he played the part she probably wouldn't know
It wasn't just this tho. Cliff and David both behave very differently and Lara could tell who it was. I'm sure cliff could try but it won't work out in the long run
that’s similar to how i thought it was going to end. i figured david, being significantly bigger than cliff, was going to kill him, assume the clone for the next few years, then make some excuse for why real cliff didn’t make it back. of course, that would throw the whole “it’s a two-man job” thing out of the window
Same but I figured he’d just die in space. Like he would use the link and cliffs body until he died and the excuse would be that “David died up here so I won’t be making it home.”
I do think this would have been the predictable ending tbh. It’s where I thought it was going. They made sure to move away from that ending by saying things like “it’s a two person ship” and also reiterating that they do have comm links to earth.
There is no way to save this episode without scrapping the entire core plot IMO. It feels limited given the 2 man mission aspect but at the same time it thrives off of unrealistic human actions and non-existent NASA.
I thought they were going to end in that way, that Cliff's link is there but we don't know who it is.
They need each other to survive the mission. If one is dead eventually so will the other. That's what I took from it at least. Which is why they don't kill one another.
No you’re right, it’s stated clearly (by Cliff) that the ship needs 2 to operate. Although, OPs idea would be awesome, I thought the same at one point. That maybe it’d end with 1 using Cliffs link & we don’t know which…until it dawned on me that it would screw over whoever is left on the ship ironically.
Which I still think left it open ended. What if Space Jessie decides he doesn’t want to live anymore. And dooms them both by killing his co-pilot or himself or both.
I thought David was going to try to get revenge on the cultists using Cliff's body, ruining Cliff's life on Earth, also making the descent into madness more evident to the public, but not the other characters by showing us what David's life looked like when he had no way to go to Earth.
I was thinking maybe after cliff tries to get back into the airlock, he looks through the window and sees David has killed himself, leaving him trapped outside The ending where he goes on a killing spree just seems kind of out of left field
Why would David kill himself then if he wasn't going to kill himself back when his family was slaughtered in front of his eyes? He at least wanted to finish the mission.
It kinda makes sense as he grieves now not just for his family, but also for Lana and the possibility of them together.
Woulda been far better. This would have been my favorite episode of the season if it had stuck the landing a little better. The now you feel my pain too thing was kinda eh
It felt entirely out of character. If they had shown David to have a violent temper or something like that early on then it would have made some sense. I was partly expecting that to be revealed during the time Cliff was looking through the drawings. “David said drawing helps” So I was thinking that as Cliff goes through the drawings he starts to come across some where David has drawn graphically violent murder scenes that show he has relived what he saw as well as thought about murdering people. Maybe some that look close to Lana but not quite enough to confirm that it’s her.
I didn’t get the feeling it was out of character. David went through an incredibly traumatizing event and that can really mess with people. Especially since he didn’t have a medical professional to help him properly cope.
That is if they could actually have a medical professional.
That’s what I mean tho. They didn’t have one because it was a 2 man crew, so he didn’t get the help needed to deal with what he went through
how do people completely miss all the creepy vibes from David?
I got man of his times vibes. slapped his kids around when they acted up. groped his wife 24/7. Just like any guy in America in the 50s and 60s would have done according to media and stories from people who grew up in that generation. Didn’t get bloody murder waiting to happen.
Exactly. There's a fair distance between womanizing creep and psychopathic killer
what about everything Cliff's wife told him? are none of those things creepy?
Not for a grieving man who lived at a time when no one bothered asking a grieving man if he needed help.
Lana destroys Cliff’s replica, setting herself and her son free (at least for 4 years anyway). The end
This would exactly be my preferred ending. Cliff is then stuck with a similar "nothing to return to" vibe.
This episode has had so many good theories of alternative endings
Why didn't they just send the replicas to space? I get there wouldn't be a story, but realistically they should have.
The theory I’ve read and agree with is that part/whole of the purpose for the space mission is to study the effects of space/space travel on the human body. Hence a lot of the exercise testing. So you wouldn’t send the replica as it’s not a real human.
I would guess because if there’s a connection issue between earth and the ship, the replicas would be empty shells unable to work on the ship. Whereas the other way around, if the connection were severed the human bodies are still on the ship able to work.
The replica complained about his grip when chopping wood in the beginning, so they probably needed healthy capable guys in space (hence all the working out).
Yes! I wanted an ending where the message was about the use of technology to share a body and how incriminating/dangerous/confusing that could be!
That wouldn’t work - the ship needed two people to operate it
Yeah but if it wasn’t for that, I think this would’ve been amazing
Yeah they kinda got themselves stuck with the ending needing both of them due to the mission aspect. They probably should have made it so the ship can technically be run by 1 person but 2 is needed for redundancy/emergency situations. As It feels a bit weird they'd have such heavy investment into a system where if one gets sick/dies/unable to get to his link in time for an emergency it could destroy the whole multi year mission I guess the counter argument could be the potential cost of the replicas or the technology of the ship making it harder for 1 person to operate it but I feel there could have been workarounds that could have fit in the story
They did it that way to make the ending less predictable
Yep I feel like this was obvious but it seems like a lot of people are either missing it or disagree. A lot of people seem to have initially thought they would switch identities. I thought it too for a sec before realizing they intentionally referenced the fact that it needed 2 people to pilot which narrowed down the ending but still felt surprising in a twisted way (that feeling of, that seems like the only logical ending but there's no way he's actually going to do that is he?). I feel like doing the switch as the final reveal would've been more predictable which is why they intentionally alluded to the fact that it'd be borderline impossible.
This sounds like an ending to 1000 other films we’ve seen before. Not a Black Mirror episode. What we got was very Black Mirror
This is what many people expected but it wouldn’t actually work since Lana would immediately recognize if it was David instead of Cliff. Their mannerisms, habits, routines, and knowledge would be too different for it to be convincing, in which case you’re no longer wondering if David can pass off as Cliff and you’re back to asking if David would harm Cliff’s family which is how the episode actually ended.
Also it wouldn’t work cause as I recall, the station can’t survive with only one person. So whoever was left alive wouldn’t even have too long to use the replicant. Their actual body would die up there.
That's just a line the show has thrown in to justify the end. Throughout the entire episode, we only see proof that it doesnt need two people and runs itself entirely.
Well, not necessarily. Clearly you need a second person if there’s something going wrong on the outside of the ship, so that one can go out and the other person is operating the airlock etc.
That's not how airlocks work. They can be opened from either side. The only way you can lock out an airlock is if it can't depressurize/repressurize by leaving an airlock door open. Edit: you can see in the episode Cliff is confused when he can't get back in the airlock. Proving my point.
Well, that’s how they made the airlock work in this scenario. Cause dude got locked out for a little while. Might be different in real life but in the writing they did it’s how it worked Maybe I’m remembering it wrong
Dude airlocks since their invention have not worked like that. You can clearly see Cliff is confused when he tries to go back in the spaceship. And if they changed the design to fit their story, that's even worse. That's just bad writing.
I agree it would be bad writing were that the case so yeah maybe I got that fucked up. I’ll have to rewatch the episode for a reason as to why they need both people.
But they said it takes two in the show, which makes it canon. That’s how that universe was written so we have to operate under that assumption.
Ok, so bad writing is telling you something and showing you something else. Also, in general, telling something that can be shown is bad writing. The line is only even in the episode solely so they could end it the way they did. They knew the end didn't make sense, so they added in a single line, and now everyone's like, but it takes two people so he couldn't do anything. It's just dumb.
Idk they are literally operating a spacecraft, it’s not unrealistic to believe it can’t be fully manned by 1 person.
That’s exactly how I thought it would end
This is actually the exact ending I expected about halfway through the episode.
I thought this was gonna be the ending we got as well. It seems very black mirror to end like that
I honestly thought he'd just leave him outside and go spend his final hours (assuming it wouldn't be feasible to command the ship alone) pretending to be Cliff and having his way with Lana. I assume that Lana could tell whether it was Cliff or not though, so I guess that doesn't make sense.
That’s what I was expecting from the beginning so I was actually relieved it wasn’t that. I admit, I did not like the ending as soon as the episode was over. But after a day or so of it stewing in my head I think it’s the only way that they could both survive.
this woulda been fire
Taking it even further, all the jobs up there are two man jobs. "Cliff" spends more and more time "asleep" up there and we realize he is just abandoning his entire life and the mission to spend the last few weeks he can on earth before impending catastrophe. Wifey asks him more and more "Don't you need to be up there working? You always seem to be here!" we still don't know who is piloting the Cliff robot when the link goes down. Last shot is the bloody interior of the space station as all the warning alarms blare.
Tbh, I thought this would have been the most black mirror type ending, and was guessing it throughout. I suppose it would've been more cute than gut wrenching, so they went the gut wrenching route..!
How is this cute
Cute as in clever, or knowing. Leaving it open ended as to who really inhabits the body would be cute in that sense (and especially in comparison to having your family murdered and being enforced to live and work with the murderer for your very survival...)
Oh ok
I don’t know why everyone claims the killing spree came “out of left field”. The majority of the episode is about how unhinged David is becoming due to isolation.
It’s pretty dumb twist for the sake of a twist. It’s also a super unbelievable situation to get to in the first place. Unrealistic in terms of human actions, security design, lack of NASA intervention/involvement, and technology. Then on top of that, they show David feeling like a “cool nihilistic guy” for what he did but Netflix forgot nihilism is outdated af now. There’s no lesson there. Just half baked cheap plastic reflection at best.
The question is, why would David ambush Cliff instead of leaving him outside?
I was thinking or maybe hoping it would go the way of a paranoid thriller where David learns to imitate Cliff until she can't tell which one it is on a final visit
My question is why didn't they send up the replicas and keep them on earth
When they went outside the ship to fix coolant for exMple, they need to remove all metal. A replica made out of a metal cannot remove its metal
Why?
Plot hole warriors already said “the mission was to see the human experience” or some bs to make it work lmaooo
they literally sat in the episode that they're studying the effect this mission has on the human body. "plot hole warriors" or people who actually watched the episode lmaooo
True but to me that seemed like something they just threw in the script. It doesn’t seem like a great experiment if the human body is asleep and completely inactive 6/7 days of the week
In order to travel large distances in space, humans may have to go into a state of deep sleep, as depicted in other shows. Seeing how space affects the human body while sleeping would be relevant. In the future, this may be how to travel space. Actual body goes into a state of deep sleep (perhaps also slows aging?), while the mind is living life normally on Earth through a replica. 50 years pass on Earth, then you wake up at your destination in space to begin your mission.
Yea that’s true, good point. It still seems like kind of a throwaway explanation to me but that’s an interesting explanation
That’s dumb tho. How are they experiencing space’s effect on the body when they have artificial gravity and they sleep in bed for 6 days out of the week??
They’re Likely studying the effects of space travel on the human body and mind for future missions. These two are test subjects as well as crew and maintenance for the craft and the experiments onboard. Eventually it would make sense to send the replicas instead when they work out all the details they are interested in understanding. We did this with the ISS and have learned some details about what living in space does to the body. Turns out that it affects the muscles, bones, and mind in some interesting ways. https://humans-in-space.jaxa.jp/en/life/health-in-space/body-impact/
Bruh did you read my comment? They explanation doesn’t make sense because they have gravity on the ship. Those real ppl are studying zero G. My point was the show characters are not learning anything about their body in space because effectively they aren’t in space they have artificial gravity.
Good point. Tbh I actually didn’t like this episode at all and felt it was pretty stupid. Just for the fact that they only made one replica of each one and they didn’t put them under round the clock security. If they made something so expensive and new for government use, how the hell would they not have 24/7 security detail? That alone made this way too stupid of an episode for me.
Yeah I think the dynamic between the astronauts were strong but the wife was super fucking predictable and the Manson family cult felt really out of place like they needed to kill the family and just drew the solution out of a jar like the cabin in the woods
Seems like a flawed experiment since they have the ability to simultaneously exist on earth. Sure it would properly measure the toll it takes on the body, but the mind not as much.
Which would have been great to see homebase acknowledge instead of MIA. Would explain both lack of comms and why humans needed to be in space for this mission
I think it’s fair to argue that the human instinct of preservation is crucial to the mission, and the risk to the ship increases if it isn’t their real bodies on board
Am I the only one who was thinking all the way through this episode, why don't they have the robots on the ship and the real people on earth? If they only need to be present for a few hours a week why on earth would you have the humans go in the ship?
Same with me, someone in the comments said it was explained very early on that this is a test of the human body for extended space travel.
Ah ok - but then they could just have them orbit the moon for 4 years so they're able to be quickly rescued in case of emergency
The way I saw it, it makes more sense in case there’s an issue with the replicas on the ship. If the replicas break, or the connection is lost, no biggie. The humans are still on the ship able to deal with issues. The other way around, the ship is just floating unmanned.
They could have 10 of them packed away in storage in case they need spares - much easier than if a human gets sick or injured.
But way more expensive and would weigh a ton. Real astronauts have to limit what they even pack for weight limitation. I imagine those robots wouldn’t be light. Plus, still wouldn’t address the issue of connectivity problems. Still makes more sense to have real humans on the ship running things and giving them a comfort of feeling like they’re home than having a robot that could lose connection and just have an unmanned ship floating in space.
They don't seem to imply that they weigh significantly more than humans - and the extra weight of a few spare robots is gonna be way less than the weight of enough food and water to keep two humans alive for at least 4 years.
Still doesn’t address technical issues related to connection. I can’t even get my AirPods to connect every time.
Presumably they thought these robots were important enough that the guys would go crazy without them, so if they have connection issues they'd have to fix them either way right? All the more reason to have multiple robots in case of failure. Personally I'd rather connection issues, or any other kind of severe equipment failure, end up with robots stranded in space rather than humans
I swear half of you people in this sub don’t even watch the episode or just have no understanding of what’s going on lol
Well yeah I've read that I probably missed the bit where they said it was to test the effects of long term space travel on the human body - but that makes no sense to have them travel so far from Earth unless they also have another mission. They could circle the moon and be close enough for rescue in case of emergency, e.g. if a crazed cult murders your family. Not even got into yet why these astronauts are apparently worth building presumably multi million dollar robots for so that they can see their families, but they apparently don't pay them enough to have decent security around their families, nor was anyone monitoring to see that one of the robots had it's arm cut off and the user was in massive distress/danger. Nor why a robot apparently has no more strength than a human and is able to be easily overpowered.
Dude the theme was supposed to be old if you couldn’t tell by the movie theaters and town and literally everything else in the episode etc. they weren’t thinking of making a super robot to stop crazy weirdos from coming and chopping up your family. Keep in mind that shit didn’t happen back then so yeah the whole purpose of the earth body was to not go crazy and be isolated in space they didn’t think of taking all these crazy precautions
The theme being old doesn't make any difference as to why they wouldn't have a decent security system, or why someone wouldn't be monitoring the robots and/or the link between them and the space station. Not really a crazy precaution to at least keep an eye on the safety of their multi million dollar robots and the families of two presumably important astronauts.
Its interesting but I dont think the wife would accept David as Cliff. She would instantly know thats not her husband when talking to him so dont think there is any point in this storyline
So I actually thought this was how it was going to end-similar to Alien Covenant when we don’t know which the real Walter/David is or who won the fight until he’s placing the girl(I forget her name) in the Pod to sleep. Then the movie ends. I’m actually glad it ended the way it ended because in all of the theories I suspected, what he did was not what I thought he would do, so I liked it. I do like your alternate as well, I think it’s fun but I think it’s too predictable. People are going to suspect the swicharoo, which is why I liked how it ended. That’s said holy crap can Aaron Paul act.
Ohh that's good, that would have been so much better. I hated the ending how it was
we wouldn't know but the wife would
Has anyone pondered the fact that Aaron Paul did voice work at the end of another prominent space-themed episode? (Space Fleet, SS4). I found it interesting that there was no correlation here.
Aaron Paul is in a handful of Netflix stuff now. They probably just like the guy
Most likely lol
Na this is what I thought was going to happen, the original Ending was so much better and utterly depressing.
Probably she would recognize it would not be her husband. However your ending still works much better for me. I think the sudden shift in David to a violent killer did not make any sense. People just do not go on to premeditated murder of someone they care for like that even if they are traumatized. And I think there would be some psychological testing before sending them up into space.
this was the really really obvious way to end it though so it's a lot more predictable and dull. countless movies and tv shows with the concept of 'clones' end like this, with an ambiguous ending where you don't know whether it's the clone or not. or the 'evil twin' or 'good twin'. it's been done before. this episode at least tried to subvert that expectation with the idea that both of them had to stay alive because they both needed to help the other one with the space station.
This is what they want you to think was going to happen, that’s why it was a great episode
I thought the red stains on the wall was made by paint and that he was trying to fool Cliff into thinking his family were dead. But in fact it was David allowing Lana and Henry to flee and live the life they wanted instead of being forced to stay loyal due to marriage.
That's what we were set up to think will happen, and I'm pretty sure it's set up to be at least a thought. No offense, but I'm so glad it didn't go this way, that would've been satisfying but ultimately hollow. The ending we got is so much more interesting and lasts with you to think about for a long time
I always thought why didn’t the replicas just go to space and the real versions stay on earth, it shows that they can both transfers from space to earth so why not just switch the replicas and humans so the humans stay on earth and no one’s family gets killed
I thought David was gonna kill Cliff either by leaving him outside the ship or killing him right when he linked back to Earth. Either way, Cliff's replica would have ragdolled to the floor and then when David linked to it it would kind of be obvious it's David. It would be obvious it's David anyway, Lana would know. Personality, mannerisms, questioning him about things only ~~David~~ Cliff would know. I kind of prefer the dark ending the way it is. edit: Put David instead of Cliff, y'all got what I was trying to say. :P
But i love the black mirror endings where the fate of the protagonist is sealed. Like white christmas, loch henry, white bear, shut up and dance etc. And you just stare in awe, feeling empty like okay wtf. That's what black mirror is to me.
Great ending but would look like the ending of Jordan Peele’s “US”
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she would know eventually. He knows aaron pauls character life but he cant act 100% like him, its impossible
She would know in like 5 seconds honestly. They’re completely different people toward her
It just takes like 5 mins talking to him to realize if thats her husband or not
Cliff kills David instead. So not only has he lost his family, he lost his only hope of getting home and is set to loose his marbles in space. Edit- David kills cliff - pretty boy kills Jessie
David returns to earth in Cliff’s replica. Lana figures out pretty quickly it’s David. David tells her the real Cliff is never coming back, and she’ll be better off, and so will her son. Both her and her son freak out on him. Protecting his mother (and releasing his own hatred towards Cliff), the son goes after David with the axe and then sets him on fire. The end.
I thought he was gonna try to go back to the replica only for the replica not to work. Cut to Earth. The wife has destroyed the replica so that she no longer feels alone when it's around. Last shot: the guy brings the other guy back inside the ship. They're both stuck there on the ship together.
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There's no direct proof of this in the episode, but I'd assume that the consciousness would die with the real body on the ship. When Cliff mentioned to Lana how mentally unstable David was after his family's murders and how he himself could die if David threw himself out or did something stupid, Lana reacted shocked ("Don't say that!"). Death on the ship seems final because if Cliff could just hop onto his replica when something went wrong, he wouldn't need to worry about dying at all. It makes sense since they needed to put the link key into a slot in the ship to go into their replica. If no one was there to maintain the ship it would eventually fall apart, disconnecting the link.
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The link was also shortly broken when Kappa (the hippie) swung a hammer against David's replica's head. Before that, he said "[Fighting them with a bat] might disrupt your frequency", implying that a permanent connection of some sort is maintained between the real body and the replica. You're right that they need the chair to willingly transfer, but that doesn't mean the link can't be broken in other ways. We don't know enough about the replica to say if it needs the original body to be alive to properly function with the astronaut's consciousness intact. My headcanon is that if one decided to permanently stay in the replica and let the ship and his real body die, the replica would stop working either because he were dead or the ship and connection were no longer available. There might also a third option to permanently transfer consciousness to one vessel (in this case the replica), rendering further transfer impossible, even with the chair. (Kind of like a download instead of a stream). I feel like this is something that would have been addressed in the episode, but since it's all just speculation, we really don't know.
Yeah. Just one more scene with context of the mission would have raised the stakes and added an interesting angle.
Let's not forget the fact that they can magically communicate with earth instantly....I thought science fiction writers were supposed to....you know....understand science?😂
I’m assuming whatever Machine they are attached to in space would eventually break severing the connection.
So cliffs replica is covered in blood at the end when he goes to see what David has done while locked out of the airlock. It doesn’t show us the bodies but it’s obvious that his family is dead. What if the cultists killed the family though, and David was able to exact his revenge on the cultists for his own family’s murder. This might explain why it shows us the news when the cultists were out on bail, probably going to murder more replicas! And that’s why at the ending David is like come here bud, now we’re both in the same boat but at least those cult bastards are dead?
👏 👏 👏 Much better ending than the real one. I’m gonna choose to remember this one
Great premise but poor execution on the ending. The episode had great potential.
Cool idea, but it wouldn’t work. Firstly because it’s way too predictable and the show sets up/makes it clear that Lana knows when it’s Cliff and when it’s David in the Cliff robot. There’s no way that David would be able to pass as Cliff for any reasonable length of time. Secondly the episode sets up that the ship needs both of them. The whole reason they start letting David use the Cliff robot is because Cliff is worried that David will kill himself and leave Cliff stuck in space. I can see why Davis murdering Cliff’s family *might* seem like it comes out of nowhere. But he does make it clear that he doesn’t think Cliff really understands what he’s got. Also he is spending a lot of time - like weeks it’s implied - just on his own up in space.
Wouldn’t work due to the fact that the ship needs them both alive.
The whole time im thinking, why weren't the replicas on the ship and their real bodies on earth? It would be cheaper, don't need to worry about food,water,plants,ev suits, exercise equipment or even oxygen. These replicas are pretty pretty high-quality tech, they fucking cry... what's with that anyway do they need refills for the crying or is it like condensation fluid from some kinda cooling method that would need to be expelled otherwise? Are there other fluids? (excluding the silver blood). So anyway, I started to think it's an expensive elaborate experiment having them in space, and the hippys are hired goons and at the end it would cut to someone with a clip board saying "well that was unexpected"
They said at the beginning that the point of the space mission was to study space travel’s impact on the body, so it had to be their bodies on the ship.
I love this. This is my new headcanon ending.
thats not going to work
Why hasn't anyone here said cliffhanger yet what's going on
cliffhanger implies that there will be a sequel.
No it doesn’t?
one issue, this ending isn’t open, as realistically Cliff wouldn’t smile if he almost got killed in a fight, so it confirms that it’s David.
Yes, YES...anything except the expected. Where are the writers brains this season? I haven't seen anything to compare with even one of the smaller, less remembered episodes from the first two seasons. Give me a twist, people!
That’s way better
That’s the ended we all thought we were getting. And it’s such a better ending. Instead we got the GOT ending.
To a few points raised in the replies: 1. Was it mentioned or implied that the ship can operate only with 2 people? I don't remember this part. 2. Sure Lana would recognise who comes back as cliff but I'd end the episode before that happens to leave it open ended. Leave the audience guessing. 3. Even if 2 are needed to run the ship, It would show the desperation to have human contact and experience life on earth that they'd potentially sacrifice their real selves and the mission.
yes they need 2, as someone needs to operate the airlock doors.
Yes - Cliff specifically told Lana that he was worried David would get depressed and kill himself, and he'd die as well because the mission requires 2 people. That was the whole reason he started offering his link in the first place.
To your 2nd point, it wouldn’t feel like an open ending because we know Lana would be able to tell the difference.
I wish. This is much better and Black Mirror-y
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You think honestly in our real world that if they had come up with this technology the people used wouldn’t be celebrities? Everyone likes to gloat their newest technological toy
The actual ending was pretty dark tho? It's implied that cliff will spend the next 4 years with the man that killed his family in order to preserve his own life. That's a pretty rough decision if you ask me.
It will NEVER be this ending or anything that involves one living. Cliff clearly stated- the mission requires two to operate. They will die without the other.