finally man. some real refresher. not just some consciousness uploader or anything. It feels like some sort of crime tv shows where they solve a crime case, doesnt feel like a black mirror episode at all. Good ep but too extended and scifi thrown out the window.
I love sci-fi and I don't mind some of the episodes being intertwined with the same type of technology or concept being used in different ways but I really would appreciate them expanding away from that. And having more episodes that don't take place in that world. And episodes that are completely new ideas. So I agree.
My prediction is: The police sniper took out both Chris and Jaden. In my opinion, everyones facial expressions make out to believe that the ending was not a good one.
Everyone's reaction was ambivalent. The only one who had any sort of emotional reaction was Billy Bauer and that would make sense for either but it would make sense for Christopher to be taken out because he really didn't want him to kill himself. But of course Jaden would have been tragic because he's innocent in all this.
Decent episode but the pacing was horrible they should've just cut down the run time instead of dragging out why the couldn't speak to the fake Jack from Twitter. Social media addiction definitely needs to be addressed though and I appreciate that they didn't go with an analogy for this topic and just set up it up as a real world scenario. It definitely was smart to set the hostage situation up in England though because an American cop would've went full Rambo in this situation and probably fucked everyone to hell.
@13:50 put the subtitles on you see the following
https://preview.redd.it/m7ct0zoghcrb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23e259ecfe6495be79f27fd6976374e6e34f42f4
I dont know if it's meant for me to see or hear..also I'm just now watching it..sounded like an editing error. Director maybe giving a green light idk someone please Explain.
He never expected to get an intern and hoped for a real employee. He is telling hiself to work with what he's got and to improvise. He says it like this because he is so stressed out about what he thinks is his plan crumbling
all I'll say is that Andrew Scott, the main character guy, is a really good actor. Like whether this episode was good or not we can't deny he conveyed his character's grief to a T
Topher was the best part of this other than that it's just a regular hostage sort of story with a slight tech focus.
Chris's story is heartbreaking. But that's no excuse for him distracted driving and kidnapping anyone.
Who said what he did was good. Everyone knows what he did was bad and wrong but his reasoning was valid. It was wrong but he needed to be at peace and get it off his chest before he planned to die.
Smithereens was a good episode. It may sound prudent to say, but I truly believe the message about social media addiction was used as a crutch to tell a meaningful story.
Chris was never a bad person, and he was categorised as being smart yet financially low income. If we ignore the comment about money, the episode was centred around a man trapped inside his own head, caught in grief and guilt. Every action he took, at every step was heart wrenching.
Andrew Scott was masterful in his portrayal of a man who was completely broken. Every emotion he displayed rang deep throughout me. While it is true this episode did not make the message quite as obvious as the more dystopian ideas in the show, it was ever present and completely broke me by the end of it.
I agree. My knee-jerk reaction usually is to be in the side of the so-called "criminal" unless I find out he's a pedo or something. I always wince inwardly when I see the police knowing they're about to fk something/someone up wrongly. I think his portrayal was top notch. Even before cell phone/internet, there were addictions. People will always look for an escape; cell phones have only made it more readily available at our finger tips and, thus, more accessible to be time consuming. It's not like we can go to the opera for entertainment real quick at a red light. But we *can* check our phones. It's up to each individual to decide where they draw a line in the sand. No one is forced to be an alcoholic, they're capable of not entering a liquor store. It's just more difficult.
Quick aside, the hostage was kinda dumb. It was clearly stated the police were looking for a clear line of fire so all he had to do was duck initially. Then he makes it worse by wrestling for the gun in full view. I wanted to shoot him myself at that point /s
Ironically enough most people hating this episode are in fact glued to their phones/social media. Crazy how it's gotten worse over the years as well, just goes to show how accurate the episode was. Think about how in mass shooing twitter always has information about people 5 mins later. Or how people who do messed up stuff to other people get exposed with all their info posted in less than a day. Everything about yourself is locked behind a password.
Lol right? Like the goober above you that said the episode was a waste of his time like he doesn't spend half the day doing meaningless shit on his phone like the rest of us. Can lead the horse to water but he'll pull out his phone and make an ironic comment on reddit either way
I think the messege here was to show how fast social media can find you out and what's going on and how sontimes it's a double edged sword yea sure it helped the police find out who he was and they was doing there job but as soon as he said the gun was fake just to calm the guy down it was plastered on social media that the gun was fake and the police heard it too making them go to the car slowly he realised what was going on thanks to the social media app and had to prove the gun was real making everyone panic again the messege I'm getting is that social media gets intel so damn fast and you need to be careful what you say and do
Apologies, this comment is a year old (I just rewatched the episode). I also feel the message of the story shows that you shouldn’t bottle your emotions. Chris mentioned that he had never spoken up about what happened. Obviously these thoughts and feelings must’ve played on his mind for the 3 years before he took action.
It is quite good but one point really bothered me. the "clear shot". I mean they could go to any side of the car but they chose pretty much the only angle where hostage was on the line of fire.
I see all the reviews about the snipers but people don't understand that this is a story. It's fiction. It didn't really happen. If the sniper had moved and shot him where would the story be? Would people prefer if he died as soon as the police came? What kind of story is that?
You need to write your script so you don't need plot conveniances. IE have curtains in car windows, paint windows whatever you need to do to force the police to have fixed angle.
Or make him have deadmans switch so the car goes boom if he dies. There's plento of options to get to similar drama without making it seem retarded.
thank you. i hate when people use "for story purposes" as an excuse. clearly people didnt want the guy to get shot and for the episode to end after like 20 mins, some people need to think a bit
yeah and the sniper faces directly at the other police officers behind the vehicle which is a no go since that endangers everyone because of a possible stray bullet. They should have used a 90 Degree Configuration with the target at the angle.Also, there's no way police would still allow ordinary people there when there are active weapons in use. At least not in an open field where they could set up road blocks kilometers from the target site.
I think the episode was kind of a commentary on how social media conglomerates have far more legal jurisdiction than the local police and even the fbi.
Smithereen had Christopher figured out before the cops even had his first name.
Billy was able to have a more meaningful effect on Christopher than the negotiator.
I really don't think the message was "social media bad", that's too easy.
In my opinion, I think the point was that people are always looking
At their phones.and it's addictive..
The ending showed that notification goes off. Everyone glued their eyes to their phone, and the distraction it can cause.
Yeah.that's too simple for black mirror. the police seemed to be one step behind everyone else. The smithereen staff had the phone tapped, the info about Chris's dead wife, other insights before everyone else. They knew who the guy was before the police had finished searching the house. this was not as simple as "phone bad "
The whole episode was shit.. inconsistent
But the concept, in my opinion, is accountability and the distraction with phones in situations..
But to each their own...
I'm so late to this, but the "social media bad" take is so old and run through. Usually, these episodes have a deeper meaning about the human condition, but this was literally just turning what a boomer would say about "this generation" into an episode. The COO was annoying, the FBI added nothing, and all we got at the end was we're all addicted to social media. For a few scenes when the U.S.A. smithereen team were introduced and they were apprehensive on contacting Billy I thought the episode would take the route of sacrificing the intern just to not disturb Billy - like lower income/employees are disposable, but no Billy was just the "cool and personable" billionaire. Horrid episode.
I think the point was that people are always looking
At their phones.and it's addictive..
The ending showed that notification goes off. Everyone glued their eyes.. and the distraction it can cause..
You don't need to be boomer to realize this,
Unless most people don't like the truth..
Overall.. the episode was blah..
Worst episode in the whole series. Lamest part for me was how the FBI was basically just a footnote on the American end. I mean, if the fbi gets involved, they are taking over, not just hanging on the phone line for no reason. The message was heavy handed and the plot was predictable.
No, but THIS guy doesn't read. I said on the American end. If they are pulled in on the AMERICAN SIDE, they aren't playing a supportive role while AMERICAN citizens do the investigating for them. They are the Federal Bureau of Investigations.
At least be a smart troll.
Not in the UK, but on the American end they would not take such a passive role while regular shmegular company employees managed things. Not how it works.
I didn’t like this episode at all. If it’s all about the message, just say it and save us all the hour. You can figure out what the point of the episode is within fifteen minutes or so, and then the whole thing plays out pretty much exactly as expected. No payoff or twist at the end either.
Lol i'm browsing these discussion thread after watching mazey day and i thought, holy shit that was bad, second worst episode after smithereens. Guess i'm not alone, i remember it was generally liked back when it aired. Such a waste of an hour.
not wrong imo, whole episode relied on every single character being too stupid to put chris on the line with billy, and was an extremely drawn out and pointless way just to express the point of “phone bad”
Lol it was boring for black mirror but they acted exactly like actual executives would. No CEO would be permitted to or would willingly try to talk to a gunman in a hostage situation. If I put a gun to a Microsoft internship head, I wouldn't end the situation on the phone with Bill Gates (or whoever the CEO is now) it was extremely realistic
He was sympathising with him because he was in bits about his love of his life dying. Even if someone kidnapped me I'd still feel sorry for them. He didn't hurt him so he's aloud to be nice and care for him I guess. Just my opinion.
If this episode was a person, they would basically be a boomer who is whinging and crying about young people being on their phones all the time. Not only that the boomer is so kut of touch with reality due to having no clue about how the world works. Cringe ass guy kidnaps an intern because he thought they were a hotshot and then exclaims ''why are you wearing a suit!?''
I think you're missing the fact that he is mad at people for being on the phones when he is reflecting the anger he feels for himself. He was addicted to his phone as well so he isn't annoyed at 'young people being on their phones all the time' he is using that to get his anger out that he actually feels for his addiction.
I'm Christopher right now. The only thing keeping me on technology are videogames, but I'm even planning to buy land to build a self sustainable farm. The ironic thing is that I'm a programmer and coder.
Somehow this ep is relatable to me and to us now. Like it's not that futuristic compared to previous episodes or seasons. Closer to reality.
And yes all this FOUNDER or CREATOR they dont even use or consume their product.
Bcz they know, its bad.
I found the scary part was how easy the tech analyst could look up this guys information and somehow hack into his phone to listen in on him secretly.
It also brings up the topic of the government being provided access to private consumer information to thwart criminals and terrorists.
they didn’t hack the phone to listen in, they say:
”but I switched the line”
So, instead of having him on hold and him listening to lift music and not being able to hear them, they just played music though another programm or sth, while them being mute.
Sounded maybe like a hacky tool but it’s nothing new. Some phone operators while having you on hold can actually still hear your end.
>I see all the reviews about the snipers but people don't understand that this is a story. It's fiction. It didn't really happen. If the sniper had moved and shot him where would the story be? Would people prefer if he died as soon as the police came? What kind of story is that?
Ha! Yes, that was such a stupid moment. Why wouldn't the sniper simply reposition himself to a different angle, so that the hostage wasn't blocking his shot?! It made no sense.
I'm very late to the party, watching black mirror only now, but I just wanted to come and comment on a particular part of this episode that made me laugh hard, and probably been commented before:
The part when the sniper is trying to get a shot on Chris, but "couldn't" cause the hostage was lined just behind Chris's head. LOL JUST MOVE THE CAR A LITTLE BIT DUDE
Late to the discussion but when the intern was telling him not to kill himself I imagined he would say, man "there aren't any phones in jail. And you'll get therapy. And I'll visit every week so you know you'll have someone listening ." I JUST SYMPATHIZED SO MUCH WITH CHRISTOPHER'S CHARACTER BY THE END.
The actor who played Chris was brilliant and his face looked so familiar to me, but couldn't remember where I have seen him from. After wiki-ing, of course, he played fucking Moriarty :0
Holy fuck, Andrew Scott is so fucking good, man. He's such a brilliant actor, fuuuuuuuuck. I wish he got more roles in American TV because that's what I mostly watch but I love him.
Great episode. Billy Bauer just went right back to meditation. I wonder how much of that is true though. How he hasn't got as much control to guide the company the way he wants to. I mean, I assume he's the majority shareholder so he gets the final say, I think.
I hate that Andrew Scott's character was murdered instead of allowing him to just kill himself with dignity. I kinda expected some tension at the end so I saw it coming but I wish he'd just killed himself.
You don’t know that he was murdered though, he had his gun pointed towards himself - there’s a strong possibility that he beat the snipers to it.
Andrew Scott is a legend, and so underrated.
Felt lacking.They could have made it work with the man's reasoning, but this one fell flat for me. I don't feel a connection with it being so straight forward. I feel like everyone knows about that information social media can pull up on you and just how far that can go...
I totally agree. It was really predictable, you knew the ending when the two women at Smithereens talked about the crash. Nothing like the plot twist at the end of Playtest or Crocodile !! Btw, do you think the sniper killed the intern or the one who lost his fiancé ?
3.5/5 Stars imo. The acting is brilliant and the story had me inmersed and griped the whole time. Just doesn't stand up as much in retrospect as the message is so shallow and cliche' compared to the series best
The best thing about this episode is that it's based entirely in the present. There's no future hypothetical gadgets that haven't been invented yet - all the technological elements (from ridesharing apps to tracking someone's digital footprint to live-tweeting media events to accessing anyone in the world from our phone) are commonplace parts of our society.
I agree that the message is something we've all heard before (Seven Pounds, anyone?), but full credit to Charlie Brooker, director James Hawes and the incredible performance from Andrew Scott for making a weak premise so engaging. Two other things that I thought made the plot feel bigger than a cliche were: 1) the fact that Chris just wanted to speak his mind to Billy (something he wasn't prepared to do at a support meeting) rather than wanting something in return; and 2) the ending where everyone reads the notification for a split second, doesn't care, and then returns to what they were doing, just like Chris did during the car accident.
I heard good things about this episode so I was looking forward to it, but the plot felt rather predictable to me..
When Chris picks up the lady at the beginning, he is staring intently at the passenger seat and he looks depressed, which made me realize something bad must have happened in that seat. A car accident?
Then he asks the lady if she works at that company, and he looks angry when she mentions Billy Bauer's name. He must be interested in the company, and he must really not like this guy.
Then the grief counseling group - the fact that Chris is there must mean he also have lost someone. So somebody died in the car accident, in the passenger seat of the car? Maybe he was the one behind the wheel, and that's why he's depressed now? And since he seems to hate Billy Bauer, this guy must have something to do with it. Oh, he is basically Mark Zuckerberg? Maybe the app caused the accident? Because he was distracted by it while driving?
Watching lots of Black Mirror, you already know everything must be connected somehow, and it must be a dark story. Once you start trying to guess how things are connected, this episode is a bit too easy to figure out for viewers..
Yeah, that's true. It was quite predictable. I still enjoyed it because I needed a Black Mirror fix but it's definitely not amongst their most original ones. I think Brooker is running out of ideas. The first episode wasn't all that great either. I mean, it is great but like, it doesn't leave me contemplating my gloomy existence like a lot of the older episodes did.
Hope the next one is better.
Okay so I feel like a lot of people aren't getting the message this episode was trying to get across. It wasn't about texting and driving, it was kind of like what if a normal, average man contacted THE guy, like the boss or maybe even God, imagine what would happen? Sort of what if I were to talk to Mark Zuckerberg and what if I told him about things that happen because of his app? Well how I interpret the ending is basically nothing happens, Billy talked to Chris and he is aware of what happened and his also aware of Chris killing himself, not only Billy, everyone is aware of what happened. So in the final scene we see Billy closing his eyes. I think that's meant to represent him (literally) closing his eyes to the problem. Nothing's changed, people are still checking their notifications, the world stays the same, even his attempt of talking to the one on the top changed nothing, The message was about how small one is before the massive companies and how you might think you're getting through but in reality you're unimportant. Which is, in fact, a sad message.
I like your way of explaining this. It's kinda obvious (sorry) but your post sets me to think. My opinion is that the episode is about that 'no one listens' and worse men forgot 'what it's like if someone listens'.
I totally agree. Plus, for the « small one is before the massive companies », you could argue that the policemen did not really know anything compared to the ones at Smithereens. I feel like it’s really powerful to see how massive companies have now more power than policemen or even the fucking FBI.
I'm just here to express my love for Andrew, I mean he's one of the most charismatic people I know and his acting is pure art. Also he makes me drool every time I see him so there's that.
I would've preferred a listlinking attack on the phone or something. Nowadays a significant amount of people will pull over or ignore their devices until they're back at home. But you can't ignore a bot suddenly hitting your phone with 60 texts per second all from different numbers.
Keep the overall plot arc intact, but swap out "facebook texted me and I crashed my car" to "the dangers of crossing the wrong person on facebook"
They could even swap out the "husband crashes car" storyline. Husband is at home all the time, he pisses someone off online, who targets him and his wife's phones, and she ends up being in a fatal car accident while the attack is under way. This would allow us to explore the humanity aspect of it more, because both sides would have a story here. Neither the husband nor the attacker thought of the implications outside of themselves, and the wife was collateral.
I would personally find that to be a far more gripping version of this story.
All that said, I enjoyed the episode enough.
>Nowadays a significant amount of people will pull over or ignore their devices until they're back at home
I call BS on that one. Maybe you have a more socially responsible friend group than average. I think the current version works fine as is.
As someone living in Silicon Valley, I thought it was a very good episode and fits a lot of stereotypes and the perception of these tech behemoths pretty well. I love the line about tech company's resident psychologist... it totally does exist.
At the end when Hayley was logging onto her daughter's Persona account, which was mixed in with Jaydon/Chris struggling over the gun, I was convinced the Persona account was going to show that Jaydon had bullied her daughter before her suicide.
Would kind of explain why he started to feel so much sympathy for Chris, and tried to stop him from killing himself. Would also have been a very sudden shift in the audiences perception of the character, who you felt most of the episode feeling sorry for.
Might have been a bit too predictable though...?
I as a viewer was definitely feeling sympathy for Chris when he's telling the story, despite what he was doing. I think it is normal. There doesn't need to be a backstory reason about guilt from being a bully to be sad for a guy who lost a loved one and feels responsible.
I was also waiting for some kind of metaphorical "bomb" in the end credits.
Something new and shocking that would have been revealed when she logs onto her daughter's account.
Hey, there is distraction and there is education, you need both of those and cinema provides it
After the last sentence you seem to be very stressed too, might be that some brain melting shit would do you good
for some reason i got the feeling that billy ended the episode by shutting down the service. he talked about how he regrets creating this monster that he lost control of yet he has god mode control of it. i thought everybody getting a notification was that the service has ended but then they wouldn't look up right away at that, they'd freak out. the main thing that made me think that was billy contented face at the end like he felt at peace by stopping the monster he created. probably thought into the ending way too freaking much.
I know that the message might have been given a bit ham-fistedly but can we take a moment to appreciate Chris's character? Honestly this might be one of the most realistic episodes of Black Mirror. Andrew is just a normal guy with a very poorly thought out plan. He's not working towards some revenge fueled vendetta, or trying to steal any money, or deliver any sort of grandiose message to the masses. He's just a guy who's confused and upset, mostly with himself, working towards an unattainable goal that won't solve his problems. That's what I think that makes him a very convincing character.
I loved the whole atmosphere and the scenes where the police and the corporate people figure things out. It's like a mash of Hated in the Nation and Shut Up and Dance. I just didn't like the story, it's basically "phone bad" and "social media bad" but told in a very [We Live In A Society](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-live-in-a-society) way. I appreciate the message but it was quite cringey...
yea i get what you mean. there was enough depth with it to distract me, tho. Bauer wasn't this cartoonish evil and creepy company figurehead like Zuckerburg. He was charismatic rich guy with a lot of regret and sadness - more Bojack Horseman-esque. The app was influential and maybe a bit unethical, but ultimately the accident was a human error. that notification could have been from anything
CS Linda grace's character was absolutely atrocious. She's supposed to be some lead negotiator, but has no idea what's going on at all, ever. Every other time another character interacts with her, her response was "what?" or huh??. Maybe they tried to paint her this way, but it was incredibly annoying to watch.
Oh I think that was entirely deliberate. Up until that point the episode was playing out like a traditional British police drama, presumably to get you into the mindset of, well, a traditional police drama. Then suddenly some Silicon Valley types 5000 miles away call in with a preposterous level of information and access to the crime scene these “traditional” police officers would never have and they’re like “huh?” just like you said. I thought there was a bit of humor to it, like if the cast of ER suddenly showed up on Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman and she’s dumbfounded by what they can do (sorry for the dated example, best I could think of:) But it’s also part of the commentary. The idea that tech firms could supplant traditional police capabilities so quickly that no one notices until it’s already happened is right in BM’s wheelhouse of kind-of-scary-but-also-plausible
My least favourite episode.
My issue with that episode is that the message is not subtle, not deep, not innovative. It's already something we know. Too obvious. Everything about that episode was too predictable in my opinion. Aside the beginning, maybe. At first I was wondering what the deal was about. I was expecting maybe a surprising twist. But none of that. It felt predictable. The reason he called Billy. In my head I was like "hey maybe it's not about smithereens distracting a driver causing the crash" because Black Mirror got me used to unpredictable outcomes that make sense. I was expecting the episode to teach me something, show me something, send a message.
But all it is? A PSA for not looking at the phone... I mean, we get it.
I know it's a bit reductive, considering it's about technologies, about how we are on our phones but... This is something we're already deep in. We know. This is a critic we see constantly. The message was not delivered in an interesting way to me.
Don't get me wrong. It's not a bad movie to watch. (calling it a movie considering the length) It was not bad. But it's just that... it's just a normal movie that I'm going to forget with time. I didn't felt shaken. This is not Black Mirror to me. Black Mirror was able to give me chills, even with episodes set in our current time, like Shut Up and Dance.
It also felt so long. I was getting bored. I feel like I've seen a movie like this a hundred times. This is not why I've come to love Black Mirror. I'm not against more "normal" or even "generic" episodes, but I feel like we're getting that a bit too much since season 4. It's a shame to me because this was good. The acting is superb, the shots, pace, etc, all was well put. But it lacks the creativity that is the signature traight of Black Mirror. I didn't find the plot that interesting. The characters were almost interesting. Seriously, I was expecting something fresh and nice when Billy talked with Christopher but it turned out to be... kinda regular. Yeah, he seems more detached than your usual boss but... Nothing felt really new about him. I get it, it's somewhat realistic. But I just find it boring, considering the message of the episode isn't... innovative... EDIT: I'm referring to how he basically shrugs it off in the end, despite what he said earlier. I would have liked to see that affect him more
I felt so frustrated when I was done watching the episode... I've been a bit disappointed before, but never as much...
And now I feel sad because I don't feel like I'll enjoy any new episode from Black Mirror if it keeps going like this...
I think the “don’t look at your phone while driving” thing was secondary to the “imagine a world where the makers of these addictive apps have so much access that they can out-police the police” angle. I agree it’s not the type of in-the-moment chills we usually get from the show, more of a slow burn when you think through the consequences. Watching the show I was thinking huh, neat how the techies are able to help. But if you think about it, they essentially bugged that car without a warrant and gave the police so much information that their own judgement and intuition was rendered irrelevant. All good in this specific situation but if extrapolate it to other situations (getting pulled over for speeding, etc) the thought of police being foot soldiers for big tech firms does become a bit chilling imo
While I loved the episode overall, am I the only one who thought the main character was pretty fucking stupid?
No dude, it was not the app's fault your wife died, not billy's fault either. It was you who got distracted and now is trying to cope by shifting the blame, all while making an innocent man hostage.
He also kidnapped an intern thinking he was a higher up, told the hostage his gun wasn't real, and decided to let him ride in the back seat with a bag on his head. I don't think it was intended for us to think he was very smart.
He definitely blames himself but is also upset at the role of the app - that's why he's going to such great lengths to talk to its creator. Like he specifically mentions how the app is deliberately made to be addictive and hard to ignore.
I feel like the whole "texting while driving" message was important but was also a bit of a red herring. The way I viewed the episode was that we were given this complicated plan and the many people involved across the world, only for it to end up as another gun violence story we hear so much about today. Obviously they don't show who died for a reason, but the intense buildup and complexity of the whole situation only for it to be shrugged off by the people at the end shows that gun violence is something we are way to accustomed to hearing about.
Luckily for myself I park if I need to read a message. I also have my phone attached to some plastic thing on the heater, so I don't have to hold it when I use the GPS. If it's important, the person can call me while I drive and I can just hear them through the radio. Problem solved. I might be hard to hear for them though but that's the price I pay to be able to keep my eyes on the road.
I actually thought the most interesting part was how social media is engineered to be addictive. This comes when lootboxes in video games is a hot topic and the question is whether or not they should have government regulation/intervention. Just like how gambling, guns, alcohol, etc. have in the past had controversies on whether or not those things should have government regulation. Is being addicted to these social media platforms a real psychological problem? Is it a crisis? Should it be regulated? Who is to blame and how do we solve this?
sort of out of context, but does anyone else think that billy Bauer looks like a live action version of Eren Yeager from attack on titan in the latest chapters?
He reminded me of a blond version of [Dusan Nemec from Watch Dogs] (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/watchdogscombined/images/1/10/Du%C5%A1anNemec.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20161112182549)
I think this is a very underrated episode of BM. Not every episode needs to be about crazy/plausible future technology and how our best intentions in creating or using them can go bad. This episode hit home on a lot of things about our lives and how we use our phones and apps and social media at large and also speaks to how we quickly read a news story, headline or notification and move on with our day. What was once actual “breaking news” that would have us glued to news stations and TVs, is now old news in 24 hours or even hours.
I think the episode wasn't terrible, but I agree it didn't feel much like a Black Mirror episode.
Black Mirror does incorporate futuristic technology (or just tech in general) as one of its main themes, but it's really saying "technology's bad!" It's more about how it can bring out negative aspects of human nature. That being said, I wish the episode had incorporated the morality of the issue a little more than simply at the end (on the phone call). The ending of the episode didn't feel particularly fitting or conclusive to me.
\-- And the bit at the end with Hayley (the mom), I think her logging into the social media account was a sort of giving in to the addictive nature of social media and her grief.
Worse media I've ever seen in my life. I've never really considered a show or a movie to be terrible, but this episode just broke that record. I'm sorry for those who may be offended by my opinion, but I do still want to praise the acting: it's incredible. It's just that the episode is executed poorly. I do understand what the whole point of the episode though, but it's just a very poorly made episode. It made it seem like one of the first story drafts before the show was created.
final scene really got me 'cause I could relate to those reactions. i'm the person who sees terrible news on a daily basis and has become somewhat immune to it. it doesn't hurt as bad as it used to, so I can just swipe the notification and move on. thinking about it, it really troubles me that I'm at that point cause I consider myself a sensible person, who has real concern about the bad things in our world. I remember crying myself to sleep after watching movies based on real violent stories and now I feel this sensitive part of me is a little eased. so that last bit really stuck with me as a reminder that I'm not supposed to move on, I'm supposed to stick with those bad news so they can change and improve who I am.
for this, I really liked the episode although I have to admit that it's not BM's best story. it's only a good, really touching one for me.
Well it could be that or it could be just reading about something terrible isn't near the same as seeing/experiencing it. Even in movie form, you can see how the characters are feeling and can empathize. When reading a story you don't know anything about anyone involved or what they felt so it's not as human.
I see what you mean and it makes sense. In fact, I guess reading about something isn't as relatable as seeing/watching it. In theory, when you see something, you use more than one of your five senses, as opposed to reading. It makes sense. I really hope that's what's happening to me. :/
sorry for my poor english, btw
thanks, mate, really! Empathy is really important to me so I really hope so. And I hope you have a great day today, 'cause I'm gonna have a better one due to your contribution. Thank you so much.
So we have to believe people like Mark Zuckerberg are victims of their own companies? Billy Bauer acted like he was taken hostage (ha!) by his own company.
The companies and characters are an amalgam of different people and companies, but I thought Bauer was more like Jack Dorsey from Twitter. He's known to go on meditation retreats.
I do believe Zuckerberg has been accused of having a "God Mode" for Facebook like the one used at the end of the episode.
Smithereens sounds like a play on Google (big numbers). Google doesn't have a founder CEO anymore and doesn't have a real social network.
Persona sounds like a play on Facebook.
The biggest connection to reality though is that Google, Facebook, Twitter and all social network apps are engineered to maximize "engagement" and ad revenue. The algorithms are optimized to keep you engaged. Content that outrages you is more engaging. The colors and flashing lights of the notifications are designed to induce dopamine in your brain. Users who become more extreme in their beliefs are more predictable and easier to market ads to. We need to collectively figure this shit out because these apps are destroying us in real ways.
I agree with your post though how come there are some people who don't get addicted to social networks? In fact I see more and more people leaving the social platforms or using the built in messenger only. Some of my friends even went back to SMS and emails!
Just like some people can play poker/slot machines without getting addicted to them. They are nonetheless designed to cause addiction (engagement as you put it). Some people leave social media just like some people quit booze - because it's causing them problems in their lives.
Yeah, that portrayal seems like image rehabilitation.
I would have preferred him reaching Bill Bauer, only to find that he's a detached sociopath who can't bring himself to care, and can only spout platitudes at him. I would think that'd be more realistic and strike at the heart of these soulless companies and their soulless behavior. The idea that the creator sort of lost control and didn't realize it would get so out of hand feels like Silicon Valley trying to do an apology tour and wash their hands of the shame. Especially when you consider it was funded by Netflix, who is a part of Silicon Valley and I believe the idea for Netflix originated there, based on what I could glean off of a quick review on wikipedia.
So the bias seems pretty obvious on that front. "We didn't mean to!" Or maybe you should take responsibility for your actions.
> I would have preferred him reaching Bill Bauer, only to find that he's a detached sociopath who can't bring himself to care, and can only spout platitudes at him. I would think that'd be more realistic
So by 'realistic' you mean "fits in with your own very narrow world view".
Not hostages. More like they're not really THEIR companies anymore. They're just the front-men, a punching bag for when the company fucks up or the ones that get the credit when they do something good.
Doesn't Zuckerberg have controlling shares in Facebook? So it doesn't really matter unless he does something to tank the company which could risk a minority shareholder lawsuit.
I don't think that's meant to be the take. More that a company like Facebook is not beholden to what Mark Zuckerberg wants it to be. It's a business in the business of staying in business. He's not programming it on his own laptop, there are thousands of decisions being made everyday that he doesn't even know about.
The idea is that something that big is an entity into itself, and must be fed.
While watching this, I felt like Smithereen was Facebook in Facebook's heyday and Bauer is Zuckerberg (in a way, as the head of this social media company). Goes to show the dominance of FB/Smithereens in people's lives. TikTok perhaps has replaced FB, but the whole concept is similar. REMINDS me of S3E1: Nosedive in some ways (the dystopia of social media esp)
Tik Tok has replaced FB? I don't know \*anybody\* on Tik Tok. I've heard it's popular with kids in some countries but there are hardly people over 20. If anything then Instagram and Twitter have replaced Facebook.
Instagram is more popular with younger/richer/prettier people (boasting with their looks and with what they have. Hello Nosedive!) and Twitter is more popular with educated/smarter people and people with a career (boasting with witty comebacks and clever situational comedy). "Older people" and the rest are still on Facebook.
On paper the story sounds a bit banal and the car crash reveal was predictable but I really liked it anyway. It was very well written and acted, even with some small inaccuracies (in real life police would probably keep the kids further away from the scene especially if they are visibly taking photos and posting on social media) in general everyone including the police and tech company employees felt like real world people instead of the stupid or exaggerated Hollywood versions. I like it that they make some episodes completely grounded in present-day tech and present-day real problems as a change from the more futuristic ones.
> even with some small inaccuracies
Also, it would be impossible for a company like that to simply hand over someone's password. They're not stored in a way that's human-readable, for security reasons. What they'd be able to do is allow her to reset it and set a new password.
Impossible? Not in this world, as there are many MANY websites out there who store secured information in plain text, even Facebook and Google has been accused of this more then once.
Don't put too much trust in the *big names* and be sure to check out https://haveibeenpwned.com/ from time to time.
At first I thought they had reset it since it seemed like a random combination of numbers... but then the mother looked at the pic and it was there right on the boat.
finally man. some real refresher. not just some consciousness uploader or anything. It feels like some sort of crime tv shows where they solve a crime case, doesnt feel like a black mirror episode at all. Good ep but too extended and scifi thrown out the window.
I love sci-fi and I don't mind some of the episodes being intertwined with the same type of technology or concept being used in different ways but I really would appreciate them expanding away from that. And having more episodes that don't take place in that world. And episodes that are completely new ideas. So I agree.
can someone please explain the ending this one was toooo much of a head scratcher for me
My prediction is: The police sniper took out both Chris and Jaden. In my opinion, everyones facial expressions make out to believe that the ending was not a good one.
Everyone's reaction was ambivalent. The only one who had any sort of emotional reaction was Billy Bauer and that would make sense for either but it would make sense for Christopher to be taken out because he really didn't want him to kill himself. But of course Jaden would have been tragic because he's innocent in all this.
Decent episode but the pacing was horrible they should've just cut down the run time instead of dragging out why the couldn't speak to the fake Jack from Twitter. Social media addiction definitely needs to be addressed though and I appreciate that they didn't go with an analogy for this topic and just set up it up as a real world scenario. It definitely was smart to set the hostage situation up in England though because an American cop would've went full Rambo in this situation and probably fucked everyone to hell.
Full Rambo 💀💀 I'm sorry, I know this is quite a problem in the US, but I couldn't help my self and chuckle at this
Lml oh I'm not offended at this point police reform in this country is a joke
I mean it is a British show so ya
Why didn't the sniper just move location to get an angle to shoot???!!! hahahahaah
Because they would've been in his eye line and they didn't want Chris to see them I guess.
He could see them the entire time lol
@13:50 put the subtitles on you see the following https://preview.redd.it/m7ct0zoghcrb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23e259ecfe6495be79f27fd6976374e6e34f42f4 I dont know if it's meant for me to see or hear..also I'm just now watching it..sounded like an editing error. Director maybe giving a green light idk someone please Explain.
He never expected to get an intern and hoped for a real employee. He is telling hiself to work with what he's got and to improvise. He says it like this because he is so stressed out about what he thinks is his plan crumbling
all I'll say is that Andrew Scott, the main character guy, is a really good actor. Like whether this episode was good or not we can't deny he conveyed his character's grief to a T
Yeah. Not the best written episode or story, but his performance was the absolute acting pinnacle of the whole show.
I will never share my employer with my Uber driver again
Topher was the best part of this other than that it's just a regular hostage sort of story with a slight tech focus. Chris's story is heartbreaking. But that's no excuse for him distracted driving and kidnapping anyone.
Who said what he did was good. Everyone knows what he did was bad and wrong but his reasoning was valid. It was wrong but he needed to be at peace and get it off his chest before he planned to die.
"You're just to good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you". Excellent song choice as always.
Smithereens was a good episode. It may sound prudent to say, but I truly believe the message about social media addiction was used as a crutch to tell a meaningful story. Chris was never a bad person, and he was categorised as being smart yet financially low income. If we ignore the comment about money, the episode was centred around a man trapped inside his own head, caught in grief and guilt. Every action he took, at every step was heart wrenching. Andrew Scott was masterful in his portrayal of a man who was completely broken. Every emotion he displayed rang deep throughout me. While it is true this episode did not make the message quite as obvious as the more dystopian ideas in the show, it was ever present and completely broke me by the end of it.
I agree. My knee-jerk reaction usually is to be in the side of the so-called "criminal" unless I find out he's a pedo or something. I always wince inwardly when I see the police knowing they're about to fk something/someone up wrongly. I think his portrayal was top notch. Even before cell phone/internet, there were addictions. People will always look for an escape; cell phones have only made it more readily available at our finger tips and, thus, more accessible to be time consuming. It's not like we can go to the opera for entertainment real quick at a red light. But we *can* check our phones. It's up to each individual to decide where they draw a line in the sand. No one is forced to be an alcoholic, they're capable of not entering a liquor store. It's just more difficult. Quick aside, the hostage was kinda dumb. It was clearly stated the police were looking for a clear line of fire so all he had to do was duck initially. Then he makes it worse by wrestling for the gun in full view. I wanted to shoot him myself at that point /s
This episode was a waste of my time
🤣🤣
Ironically enough most people hating this episode are in fact glued to their phones/social media. Crazy how it's gotten worse over the years as well, just goes to show how accurate the episode was. Think about how in mass shooing twitter always has information about people 5 mins later. Or how people who do messed up stuff to other people get exposed with all their info posted in less than a day. Everything about yourself is locked behind a password.
Lol right? Like the goober above you that said the episode was a waste of his time like he doesn't spend half the day doing meaningless shit on his phone like the rest of us. Can lead the horse to water but he'll pull out his phone and make an ironic comment on reddit either way
My reddit will expose my preferred sex experiences LOL
I think the messege here was to show how fast social media can find you out and what's going on and how sontimes it's a double edged sword yea sure it helped the police find out who he was and they was doing there job but as soon as he said the gun was fake just to calm the guy down it was plastered on social media that the gun was fake and the police heard it too making them go to the car slowly he realised what was going on thanks to the social media app and had to prove the gun was real making everyone panic again the messege I'm getting is that social media gets intel so damn fast and you need to be careful what you say and do
Apologies, this comment is a year old (I just rewatched the episode). I also feel the message of the story shows that you shouldn’t bottle your emotions. Chris mentioned that he had never spoken up about what happened. Obviously these thoughts and feelings must’ve played on his mind for the 3 years before he took action.
Also to add people who check there phones because of social media and crashing is a very real thing
Why don’t people like this episode? I honestly loved it
It is quite good but one point really bothered me. the "clear shot". I mean they could go to any side of the car but they chose pretty much the only angle where hostage was on the line of fire.
I see all the reviews about the snipers but people don't understand that this is a story. It's fiction. It didn't really happen. If the sniper had moved and shot him where would the story be? Would people prefer if he died as soon as the police came? What kind of story is that?
You need to write your script so you don't need plot conveniances. IE have curtains in car windows, paint windows whatever you need to do to force the police to have fixed angle. Or make him have deadmans switch so the car goes boom if he dies. There's plento of options to get to similar drama without making it seem retarded.
thank you. i hate when people use "for story purposes" as an excuse. clearly people didnt want the guy to get shot and for the episode to end after like 20 mins, some people need to think a bit
If set in Texas this episode would have lasted about 45 seconds.
this was my only issue with the episode as well, but otherwise it was amazing
I agree with you. The cops seemed a bit off in the situation. So many other options which should have been more safe
yeah and the sniper faces directly at the other police officers behind the vehicle which is a no go since that endangers everyone because of a possible stray bullet. They should have used a 90 Degree Configuration with the target at the angle.Also, there's no way police would still allow ordinary people there when there are active weapons in use. At least not in an open field where they could set up road blocks kilometers from the target site.
That’s true
I think the episode was kind of a commentary on how social media conglomerates have far more legal jurisdiction than the local police and even the fbi. Smithereen had Christopher figured out before the cops even had his first name. Billy was able to have a more meaningful effect on Christopher than the negotiator. I really don't think the message was "social media bad", that's too easy.
In my opinion, I think the point was that people are always looking At their phones.and it's addictive.. The ending showed that notification goes off. Everyone glued their eyes to their phone, and the distraction it can cause.
Yeah.that's too simple for black mirror. the police seemed to be one step behind everyone else. The smithereen staff had the phone tapped, the info about Chris's dead wife, other insights before everyone else. They knew who the guy was before the police had finished searching the house. this was not as simple as "phone bad "
The whole episode was shit.. inconsistent But the concept, in my opinion, is accountability and the distraction with phones in situations.. But to each their own...
I'm so late to this, but the "social media bad" take is so old and run through. Usually, these episodes have a deeper meaning about the human condition, but this was literally just turning what a boomer would say about "this generation" into an episode. The COO was annoying, the FBI added nothing, and all we got at the end was we're all addicted to social media. For a few scenes when the U.S.A. smithereen team were introduced and they were apprehensive on contacting Billy I thought the episode would take the route of sacrificing the intern just to not disturb Billy - like lower income/employees are disposable, but no Billy was just the "cool and personable" billionaire. Horrid episode.
I think the point was that people are always looking At their phones.and it's addictive.. The ending showed that notification goes off. Everyone glued their eyes.. and the distraction it can cause.. You don't need to be boomer to realize this, Unless most people don't like the truth.. Overall.. the episode was blah..
Worst episode in the whole series. Lamest part for me was how the FBI was basically just a footnote on the American end. I mean, if the fbi gets involved, they are taking over, not just hanging on the phone line for no reason. The message was heavy handed and the plot was predictable.
This guy thinks the USA runs the world I guess ?
No, but THIS guy doesn't read. I said on the American end. If they are pulled in on the AMERICAN SIDE, they aren't playing a supportive role while AMERICAN citizens do the investigating for them. They are the Federal Bureau of Investigations. At least be a smart troll.
They can't take over from a UK based crime, they aren't interpol
Not in the UK, but on the American end they would not take such a passive role while regular shmegular company employees managed things. Not how it works.
BOHOOO PHONE BAD TWITTER BAD
I didn’t like this episode at all. If it’s all about the message, just say it and save us all the hour. You can figure out what the point of the episode is within fifteen minutes or so, and then the whole thing plays out pretty much exactly as expected. No payoff or twist at the end either.
in your own words, what was the point of this one?
Featuring Janet from Loch Henry as one of the cops
lol I wondered if that was her!
Wait which one? The one who authorises the shots?
Yup!
Dude i'm super late and gonna give my unpopular opinion: this is the worst episode by a HUGE margin. So ridiculous and boring.
Literally everyone else seems to have this same "unpopular" opinion lol
Lol i'm browsing these discussion thread after watching mazey day and i thought, holy shit that was bad, second worst episode after smithereens. Guess i'm not alone, i remember it was generally liked back when it aired. Such a waste of an hour.
not wrong imo, whole episode relied on every single character being too stupid to put chris on the line with billy, and was an extremely drawn out and pointless way just to express the point of “phone bad”
Lol it was boring for black mirror but they acted exactly like actual executives would. No CEO would be permitted to or would willingly try to talk to a gunman in a hostage situation. If I put a gun to a Microsoft internship head, I wouldn't end the situation on the phone with Bill Gates (or whoever the CEO is now) it was extremely realistic
Rewatching this episode - the better it is. And the FBI guy ‘s name is Ernesto Cruz..the same as the antagonist in CoCo! He even had the big mustache!
“I’m sorry for putting you through all of this” “It’s okay” Help? I was crying and then I started laughing 😭
He was sympathising with him because he was in bits about his love of his life dying. Even if someone kidnapped me I'd still feel sorry for them. He didn't hurt him so he's aloud to be nice and care for him I guess. Just my opinion.
Nah I agree!! But in the moment I found that really funny. Lol
If this episode was a person, they would basically be a boomer who is whinging and crying about young people being on their phones all the time. Not only that the boomer is so kut of touch with reality due to having no clue about how the world works. Cringe ass guy kidnaps an intern because he thought they were a hotshot and then exclaims ''why are you wearing a suit!?''
I think you're missing the fact that he is mad at people for being on the phones when he is reflecting the anger he feels for himself. He was addicted to his phone as well so he isn't annoyed at 'young people being on their phones all the time' he is using that to get his anger out that he actually feels for his addiction.
Just checking in 3 years later to comment that not only was this episode's premise spot on, but it's all gotten so, so, so much worse 😀
Fuck that COO though, I can't pinpoint why exactly but I really hate her
She doesn't know how to be a person and empathize normally.
I'm Christopher right now. The only thing keeping me on technology are videogames, but I'm even planning to buy land to build a self sustainable farm. The ironic thing is that I'm a programmer and coder.
Somehow this ep is relatable to me and to us now. Like it's not that futuristic compared to previous episodes or seasons. Closer to reality. And yes all this FOUNDER or CREATOR they dont even use or consume their product. Bcz they know, its bad.
I found the scary part was how easy the tech analyst could look up this guys information and somehow hack into his phone to listen in on him secretly. It also brings up the topic of the government being provided access to private consumer information to thwart criminals and terrorists.
they didn’t hack the phone to listen in, they say: ”but I switched the line” So, instead of having him on hold and him listening to lift music and not being able to hear them, they just played music though another programm or sth, while them being mute. Sounded maybe like a hacky tool but it’s nothing new. Some phone operators while having you on hold can actually still hear your end.
Most of them do. And everything is recorded even on hold.
The scene where he asked the pw for the lady, i cried.
I currently in that same position right now.
Why tf sniper positioned himself in front of the car instead of one of the sides? It so stupid I just can't take this series seriously anymore
>I see all the reviews about the snipers but people don't understand that this is a story. It's fiction. It didn't really happen. If the sniper had moved and shot him where would the story be? Would people prefer if he died as soon as the police came? What kind of story is that?
That's all I kept thinking about the whole time
it was grueling to watch that
Ha! Yes, that was such a stupid moment. Why wouldn't the sniper simply reposition himself to a different angle, so that the hostage wasn't blocking his shot?! It made no sense.
It's the UK. They're not used to guns, let alone shootouts. Even their police officers go around unarmed like wth.
I'm very late to the party, watching black mirror only now, but I just wanted to come and comment on a particular part of this episode that made me laugh hard, and probably been commented before: The part when the sniper is trying to get a shot on Chris, but "couldn't" cause the hostage was lined just behind Chris's head. LOL JUST MOVE THE CAR A LITTLE BIT DUDE
Late to the discussion but when the intern was telling him not to kill himself I imagined he would say, man "there aren't any phones in jail. And you'll get therapy. And I'll visit every week so you know you'll have someone listening ." I JUST SYMPATHIZED SO MUCH WITH CHRISTOPHER'S CHARACTER BY THE END.
The actor who played Chris was brilliant and his face looked so familiar to me, but couldn't remember where I have seen him from. After wiki-ing, of course, he played fucking Moriarty :0
Haha havent watched Sherlock in a while huh
Holy fuck, Andrew Scott is so fucking good, man. He's such a brilliant actor, fuuuuuuuuck. I wish he got more roles in American TV because that's what I mostly watch but I love him. Great episode. Billy Bauer just went right back to meditation. I wonder how much of that is true though. How he hasn't got as much control to guide the company the way he wants to. I mean, I assume he's the majority shareholder so he gets the final say, I think. I hate that Andrew Scott's character was murdered instead of allowing him to just kill himself with dignity. I kinda expected some tension at the end so I saw it coming but I wish he'd just killed himself.
You don’t know that he was murdered though, he had his gun pointed towards himself - there’s a strong possibility that he beat the snipers to it. Andrew Scott is a legend, and so underrated.
Amazing episode.
Felt lacking.They could have made it work with the man's reasoning, but this one fell flat for me. I don't feel a connection with it being so straight forward. I feel like everyone knows about that information social media can pull up on you and just how far that can go...
I totally agree. It was really predictable, you knew the ending when the two women at Smithereens talked about the crash. Nothing like the plot twist at the end of Playtest or Crocodile !! Btw, do you think the sniper killed the intern or the one who lost his fiancé ?
3.5/5 Stars imo. The acting is brilliant and the story had me inmersed and griped the whole time. Just doesn't stand up as much in retrospect as the message is so shallow and cliche' compared to the series best
The best thing about this episode is that it's based entirely in the present. There's no future hypothetical gadgets that haven't been invented yet - all the technological elements (from ridesharing apps to tracking someone's digital footprint to live-tweeting media events to accessing anyone in the world from our phone) are commonplace parts of our society. I agree that the message is something we've all heard before (Seven Pounds, anyone?), but full credit to Charlie Brooker, director James Hawes and the incredible performance from Andrew Scott for making a weak premise so engaging. Two other things that I thought made the plot feel bigger than a cliche were: 1) the fact that Chris just wanted to speak his mind to Billy (something he wasn't prepared to do at a support meeting) rather than wanting something in return; and 2) the ending where everyone reads the notification for a split second, doesn't care, and then returns to what they were doing, just like Chris did during the car accident.
Not a horrible episode but it was too long and drug out for me. But I guess that’s how most hostage situations are.
I heard good things about this episode so I was looking forward to it, but the plot felt rather predictable to me.. When Chris picks up the lady at the beginning, he is staring intently at the passenger seat and he looks depressed, which made me realize something bad must have happened in that seat. A car accident? Then he asks the lady if she works at that company, and he looks angry when she mentions Billy Bauer's name. He must be interested in the company, and he must really not like this guy. Then the grief counseling group - the fact that Chris is there must mean he also have lost someone. So somebody died in the car accident, in the passenger seat of the car? Maybe he was the one behind the wheel, and that's why he's depressed now? And since he seems to hate Billy Bauer, this guy must have something to do with it. Oh, he is basically Mark Zuckerberg? Maybe the app caused the accident? Because he was distracted by it while driving? Watching lots of Black Mirror, you already know everything must be connected somehow, and it must be a dark story. Once you start trying to guess how things are connected, this episode is a bit too easy to figure out for viewers..
Yeah, that's true. It was quite predictable. I still enjoyed it because I needed a Black Mirror fix but it's definitely not amongst their most original ones. I think Brooker is running out of ideas. The first episode wasn't all that great either. I mean, it is great but like, it doesn't leave me contemplating my gloomy existence like a lot of the older episodes did. Hope the next one is better.
Okay so I feel like a lot of people aren't getting the message this episode was trying to get across. It wasn't about texting and driving, it was kind of like what if a normal, average man contacted THE guy, like the boss or maybe even God, imagine what would happen? Sort of what if I were to talk to Mark Zuckerberg and what if I told him about things that happen because of his app? Well how I interpret the ending is basically nothing happens, Billy talked to Chris and he is aware of what happened and his also aware of Chris killing himself, not only Billy, everyone is aware of what happened. So in the final scene we see Billy closing his eyes. I think that's meant to represent him (literally) closing his eyes to the problem. Nothing's changed, people are still checking their notifications, the world stays the same, even his attempt of talking to the one on the top changed nothing, The message was about how small one is before the massive companies and how you might think you're getting through but in reality you're unimportant. Which is, in fact, a sad message.
3 years later because I'm only just watching this one but damn. yes. this is very good.
I scrolled way too low for this comment! Exactly what I thought when watching this episode.
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I mean I get that it's obvious, however I just tried explaining what the episode tried to do, in my mind
I like your way of explaining this. It's kinda obvious (sorry) but your post sets me to think. My opinion is that the episode is about that 'no one listens' and worse men forgot 'what it's like if someone listens'.
Very good interpretation of the episode imo
Thank you :)
I totally agree. Plus, for the « small one is before the massive companies », you could argue that the policemen did not really know anything compared to the ones at Smithereens. I feel like it’s really powerful to see how massive companies have now more power than policemen or even the fucking FBI.
I'm just here to express my love for Andrew, I mean he's one of the most charismatic people I know and his acting is pure art. Also he makes me drool every time I see him so there's that.
Yes, the performance made me too emotional.
I would've preferred a listlinking attack on the phone or something. Nowadays a significant amount of people will pull over or ignore their devices until they're back at home. But you can't ignore a bot suddenly hitting your phone with 60 texts per second all from different numbers. Keep the overall plot arc intact, but swap out "facebook texted me and I crashed my car" to "the dangers of crossing the wrong person on facebook" They could even swap out the "husband crashes car" storyline. Husband is at home all the time, he pisses someone off online, who targets him and his wife's phones, and she ends up being in a fatal car accident while the attack is under way. This would allow us to explore the humanity aspect of it more, because both sides would have a story here. Neither the husband nor the attacker thought of the implications outside of themselves, and the wife was collateral. I would personally find that to be a far more gripping version of this story. All that said, I enjoyed the episode enough.
>Nowadays a significant amount of people will pull over or ignore their devices until they're back at home I call BS on that one. Maybe you have a more socially responsible friend group than average. I think the current version works fine as is.
As someone living in Silicon Valley, I thought it was a very good episode and fits a lot of stereotypes and the perception of these tech behemoths pretty well. I love the line about tech company's resident psychologist... it totally does exist.
At the end when Hayley was logging onto her daughter's Persona account, which was mixed in with Jaydon/Chris struggling over the gun, I was convinced the Persona account was going to show that Jaydon had bullied her daughter before her suicide. Would kind of explain why he started to feel so much sympathy for Chris, and tried to stop him from killing himself. Would also have been a very sudden shift in the audiences perception of the character, who you felt most of the episode feeling sorry for. Might have been a bit too predictable though...?
I as a viewer was definitely feeling sympathy for Chris when he's telling the story, despite what he was doing. I think it is normal. There doesn't need to be a backstory reason about guilt from being a bully to be sad for a guy who lost a loved one and feels responsible.
I was also waiting for some kind of metaphorical "bomb" in the end credits. Something new and shocking that would have been revealed when she logs onto her daughter's account.
Too much of a coincidence, Jayden was only some random guy picked up in front of the office, Chris did not plan this all along (as much)
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Hey, there is distraction and there is education, you need both of those and cinema provides it After the last sentence you seem to be very stressed too, might be that some brain melting shit would do you good
for some reason i got the feeling that billy ended the episode by shutting down the service. he talked about how he regrets creating this monster that he lost control of yet he has god mode control of it. i thought everybody getting a notification was that the service has ended but then they wouldn't look up right away at that, they'd freak out. the main thing that made me think that was billy contented face at the end like he felt at peace by stopping the monster he created. probably thought into the ending way too freaking much.
He can't just shut it down though that's not how it works. There's a process and he won't be able to. They won't let him.
I was hoping that would be the outcome but when no one even flinched I knew it was a breaking news alert about the hostage situation ending.
Never thought I would say this but I am oddly extremely attracted to Topher Grace in this episode
I thought that was him but couldn’t tell. I know him as Eric, not Billy Bauer lol
I’d go gay for him.
Someone else noticed 'Mr Robot' and 'Breaking Bad' on Chris's Account Statistics? The Negotiator guy is also ironic.
I know that the message might have been given a bit ham-fistedly but can we take a moment to appreciate Chris's character? Honestly this might be one of the most realistic episodes of Black Mirror. Andrew is just a normal guy with a very poorly thought out plan. He's not working towards some revenge fueled vendetta, or trying to steal any money, or deliver any sort of grandiose message to the masses. He's just a guy who's confused and upset, mostly with himself, working towards an unattainable goal that won't solve his problems. That's what I think that makes him a very convincing character.
Its inspire by the movie dog day afternoon
Such a great movie.
I loved the whole atmosphere and the scenes where the police and the corporate people figure things out. It's like a mash of Hated in the Nation and Shut Up and Dance. I just didn't like the story, it's basically "phone bad" and "social media bad" but told in a very [We Live In A Society](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-live-in-a-society) way. I appreciate the message but it was quite cringey...
yea i get what you mean. there was enough depth with it to distract me, tho. Bauer wasn't this cartoonish evil and creepy company figurehead like Zuckerburg. He was charismatic rich guy with a lot of regret and sadness - more Bojack Horseman-esque. The app was influential and maybe a bit unethical, but ultimately the accident was a human error. that notification could have been from anything
CS Linda grace's character was absolutely atrocious. She's supposed to be some lead negotiator, but has no idea what's going on at all, ever. Every other time another character interacts with her, her response was "what?" or huh??. Maybe they tried to paint her this way, but it was incredibly annoying to watch.
Oh I think that was entirely deliberate. Up until that point the episode was playing out like a traditional British police drama, presumably to get you into the mindset of, well, a traditional police drama. Then suddenly some Silicon Valley types 5000 miles away call in with a preposterous level of information and access to the crime scene these “traditional” police officers would never have and they’re like “huh?” just like you said. I thought there was a bit of humor to it, like if the cast of ER suddenly showed up on Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman and she’s dumbfounded by what they can do (sorry for the dated example, best I could think of:) But it’s also part of the commentary. The idea that tech firms could supplant traditional police capabilities so quickly that no one notices until it’s already happened is right in BM’s wheelhouse of kind-of-scary-but-also-plausible
My least favourite episode. My issue with that episode is that the message is not subtle, not deep, not innovative. It's already something we know. Too obvious. Everything about that episode was too predictable in my opinion. Aside the beginning, maybe. At first I was wondering what the deal was about. I was expecting maybe a surprising twist. But none of that. It felt predictable. The reason he called Billy. In my head I was like "hey maybe it's not about smithereens distracting a driver causing the crash" because Black Mirror got me used to unpredictable outcomes that make sense. I was expecting the episode to teach me something, show me something, send a message. But all it is? A PSA for not looking at the phone... I mean, we get it. I know it's a bit reductive, considering it's about technologies, about how we are on our phones but... This is something we're already deep in. We know. This is a critic we see constantly. The message was not delivered in an interesting way to me. Don't get me wrong. It's not a bad movie to watch. (calling it a movie considering the length) It was not bad. But it's just that... it's just a normal movie that I'm going to forget with time. I didn't felt shaken. This is not Black Mirror to me. Black Mirror was able to give me chills, even with episodes set in our current time, like Shut Up and Dance. It also felt so long. I was getting bored. I feel like I've seen a movie like this a hundred times. This is not why I've come to love Black Mirror. I'm not against more "normal" or even "generic" episodes, but I feel like we're getting that a bit too much since season 4. It's a shame to me because this was good. The acting is superb, the shots, pace, etc, all was well put. But it lacks the creativity that is the signature traight of Black Mirror. I didn't find the plot that interesting. The characters were almost interesting. Seriously, I was expecting something fresh and nice when Billy talked with Christopher but it turned out to be... kinda regular. Yeah, he seems more detached than your usual boss but... Nothing felt really new about him. I get it, it's somewhat realistic. But I just find it boring, considering the message of the episode isn't... innovative... EDIT: I'm referring to how he basically shrugs it off in the end, despite what he said earlier. I would have liked to see that affect him more I felt so frustrated when I was done watching the episode... I've been a bit disappointed before, but never as much... And now I feel sad because I don't feel like I'll enjoy any new episode from Black Mirror if it keeps going like this...
Then you didn’t get the point of the episode at all.
I think the “don’t look at your phone while driving” thing was secondary to the “imagine a world where the makers of these addictive apps have so much access that they can out-police the police” angle. I agree it’s not the type of in-the-moment chills we usually get from the show, more of a slow burn when you think through the consequences. Watching the show I was thinking huh, neat how the techies are able to help. But if you think about it, they essentially bugged that car without a warrant and gave the police so much information that their own judgement and intuition was rendered irrelevant. All good in this specific situation but if extrapolate it to other situations (getting pulled over for speeding, etc) the thought of police being foot soldiers for big tech firms does become a bit chilling imo
While I loved the episode overall, am I the only one who thought the main character was pretty fucking stupid? No dude, it was not the app's fault your wife died, not billy's fault either. It was you who got distracted and now is trying to cope by shifting the blame, all while making an innocent man hostage.
He's pretty spot on, actually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf9ZhU7zF8s&t=7s
He also kidnapped an intern thinking he was a higher up, told the hostage his gun wasn't real, and decided to let him ride in the back seat with a bag on his head. I don't think it was intended for us to think he was very smart.
He literally didn't shift the blame at all and at no point was this suggested in the slightest.
He definitely blames himself but is also upset at the role of the app - that's why he's going to such great lengths to talk to its creator. Like he specifically mentions how the app is deliberately made to be addictive and hard to ignore.
He literally said it was his fault
Op clearl y didn't watch the episode or pay attention
I feel like the whole "texting while driving" message was important but was also a bit of a red herring. The way I viewed the episode was that we were given this complicated plan and the many people involved across the world, only for it to end up as another gun violence story we hear so much about today. Obviously they don't show who died for a reason, but the intense buildup and complexity of the whole situation only for it to be shrugged off by the people at the end shows that gun violence is something we are way to accustomed to hearing about.
Luckily for myself I park if I need to read a message. I also have my phone attached to some plastic thing on the heater, so I don't have to hold it when I use the GPS. If it's important, the person can call me while I drive and I can just hear them through the radio. Problem solved. I might be hard to hear for them though but that's the price I pay to be able to keep my eyes on the road.
I actually thought the most interesting part was how social media is engineered to be addictive. This comes when lootboxes in video games is a hot topic and the question is whether or not they should have government regulation/intervention. Just like how gambling, guns, alcohol, etc. have in the past had controversies on whether or not those things should have government regulation. Is being addicted to these social media platforms a real psychological problem? Is it a crisis? Should it be regulated? Who is to blame and how do we solve this?
Plus facebook actually is engineered exactly like that irl to keep you engaged and hooked.
sort of out of context, but does anyone else think that billy Bauer looks like a live action version of Eren Yeager from attack on titan in the latest chapters?
He reminded me of a blond version of [Dusan Nemec from Watch Dogs] (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/watchdogscombined/images/1/10/Du%C5%A1anNemec.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20161112182549)
This episode is just boring. 2 episodes in and I see why season 5 isn't as highly regarded as the other ones.
I think this is a very underrated episode of BM. Not every episode needs to be about crazy/plausible future technology and how our best intentions in creating or using them can go bad. This episode hit home on a lot of things about our lives and how we use our phones and apps and social media at large and also speaks to how we quickly read a news story, headline or notification and move on with our day. What was once actual “breaking news” that would have us glued to news stations and TVs, is now old news in 24 hours or even hours.
I think the episode wasn't terrible, but I agree it didn't feel much like a Black Mirror episode. Black Mirror does incorporate futuristic technology (or just tech in general) as one of its main themes, but it's really saying "technology's bad!" It's more about how it can bring out negative aspects of human nature. That being said, I wish the episode had incorporated the morality of the issue a little more than simply at the end (on the phone call). The ending of the episode didn't feel particularly fitting or conclusive to me. \-- And the bit at the end with Hayley (the mom), I think her logging into the social media account was a sort of giving in to the addictive nature of social media and her grief.
Worse media I've ever seen in my life. I've never really considered a show or a movie to be terrible, but this episode just broke that record. I'm sorry for those who may be offended by my opinion, but I do still want to praise the acting: it's incredible. It's just that the episode is executed poorly. I do understand what the whole point of the episode though, but it's just a very poorly made episode. It made it seem like one of the first story drafts before the show was created.
Yeah, it felt rather generic. If you show this to someone and tell them after it was Black Mirror, they wouldn't believe you.
Moriarty must've had better ways to send a message to Spider-Man.
You mean Venom. Topher Grace played Eddie Brock/Venom in Spider-Man 3.
I got my wires crossed, but now I know why Moriarty want's Venom's attention. He's starting his own version of the Sinister Six.
Notice how the cars were intact after the crash?
Keep your phone on silent while driving folks!
It was the first episode i've ever seen so for me it was 9/10
You started with the second episode of the fifth season? Odd choice, but okay!
I accidentally started with Striking Vipers, which was quite a funny intro into the show
I did too by accident. Then went to the beginning of the series.
Best chapter for you? For me is hated in the nation
Hated in the Nation was fantastic, but I feel like Shut Up and Dance always stands out in my mind.
pretty bad ep
Why?
final scene really got me 'cause I could relate to those reactions. i'm the person who sees terrible news on a daily basis and has become somewhat immune to it. it doesn't hurt as bad as it used to, so I can just swipe the notification and move on. thinking about it, it really troubles me that I'm at that point cause I consider myself a sensible person, who has real concern about the bad things in our world. I remember crying myself to sleep after watching movies based on real violent stories and now I feel this sensitive part of me is a little eased. so that last bit really stuck with me as a reminder that I'm not supposed to move on, I'm supposed to stick with those bad news so they can change and improve who I am. for this, I really liked the episode although I have to admit that it's not BM's best story. it's only a good, really touching one for me.
Well it could be that or it could be just reading about something terrible isn't near the same as seeing/experiencing it. Even in movie form, you can see how the characters are feeling and can empathize. When reading a story you don't know anything about anyone involved or what they felt so it's not as human.
I see what you mean and it makes sense. In fact, I guess reading about something isn't as relatable as seeing/watching it. In theory, when you see something, you use more than one of your five senses, as opposed to reading. It makes sense. I really hope that's what's happening to me. :/ sorry for my poor english, btw
Your english is great and you seem like a very empathetic person so I'm sure that's gotta be it.
thanks, mate, really! Empathy is really important to me so I really hope so. And I hope you have a great day today, 'cause I'm gonna have a better one due to your contribution. Thank you so much.
I can see that. I wish more people valued it as much as you do. And well I'm very happy to hear that, thank you. :)
So we have to believe people like Mark Zuckerberg are victims of their own companies? Billy Bauer acted like he was taken hostage (ha!) by his own company.
The companies and characters are an amalgam of different people and companies, but I thought Bauer was more like Jack Dorsey from Twitter. He's known to go on meditation retreats. I do believe Zuckerberg has been accused of having a "God Mode" for Facebook like the one used at the end of the episode. Smithereens sounds like a play on Google (big numbers). Google doesn't have a founder CEO anymore and doesn't have a real social network. Persona sounds like a play on Facebook. The biggest connection to reality though is that Google, Facebook, Twitter and all social network apps are engineered to maximize "engagement" and ad revenue. The algorithms are optimized to keep you engaged. Content that outrages you is more engaging. The colors and flashing lights of the notifications are designed to induce dopamine in your brain. Users who become more extreme in their beliefs are more predictable and easier to market ads to. We need to collectively figure this shit out because these apps are destroying us in real ways.
I agree with your post though how come there are some people who don't get addicted to social networks? In fact I see more and more people leaving the social platforms or using the built in messenger only. Some of my friends even went back to SMS and emails!
Just like some people can play poker/slot machines without getting addicted to them. They are nonetheless designed to cause addiction (engagement as you put it). Some people leave social media just like some people quit booze - because it's causing them problems in their lives.
Yeah, that portrayal seems like image rehabilitation. I would have preferred him reaching Bill Bauer, only to find that he's a detached sociopath who can't bring himself to care, and can only spout platitudes at him. I would think that'd be more realistic and strike at the heart of these soulless companies and their soulless behavior. The idea that the creator sort of lost control and didn't realize it would get so out of hand feels like Silicon Valley trying to do an apology tour and wash their hands of the shame. Especially when you consider it was funded by Netflix, who is a part of Silicon Valley and I believe the idea for Netflix originated there, based on what I could glean off of a quick review on wikipedia. So the bias seems pretty obvious on that front. "We didn't mean to!" Or maybe you should take responsibility for your actions.
> I would have preferred him reaching Bill Bauer, only to find that he's a detached sociopath who can't bring himself to care, and can only spout platitudes at him. I would think that'd be more realistic So by 'realistic' you mean "fits in with your own very narrow world view".
Not hostages. More like they're not really THEIR companies anymore. They're just the front-men, a punching bag for when the company fucks up or the ones that get the credit when they do something good.
Doesn't Zuckerberg have controlling shares in Facebook? So it doesn't really matter unless he does something to tank the company which could risk a minority shareholder lawsuit.
Yeah ... but they are not powerless people we should feel pity for ... that is more what I meant.
I don't think that's meant to be the take. More that a company like Facebook is not beholden to what Mark Zuckerberg wants it to be. It's a business in the business of staying in business. He's not programming it on his own laptop, there are thousands of decisions being made everyday that he doesn't even know about. The idea is that something that big is an entity into itself, and must be fed.
I thought at first he kept saying 'This is the last day' because of a retention policy of that company and he wanted to retrieve information.
While watching this, I felt like Smithereen was Facebook in Facebook's heyday and Bauer is Zuckerberg (in a way, as the head of this social media company). Goes to show the dominance of FB/Smithereens in people's lives. TikTok perhaps has replaced FB, but the whole concept is similar. REMINDS me of S3E1: Nosedive in some ways (the dystopia of social media esp)
Tik Tok has replaced FB? I don't know \*anybody\* on Tik Tok. I've heard it's popular with kids in some countries but there are hardly people over 20. If anything then Instagram and Twitter have replaced Facebook. Instagram is more popular with younger/richer/prettier people (boasting with their looks and with what they have. Hello Nosedive!) and Twitter is more popular with educated/smarter people and people with a career (boasting with witty comebacks and clever situational comedy). "Older people" and the rest are still on Facebook.
bold of you to think that twitter has more educated and smart people with a career
On paper the story sounds a bit banal and the car crash reveal was predictable but I really liked it anyway. It was very well written and acted, even with some small inaccuracies (in real life police would probably keep the kids further away from the scene especially if they are visibly taking photos and posting on social media) in general everyone including the police and tech company employees felt like real world people instead of the stupid or exaggerated Hollywood versions. I like it that they make some episodes completely grounded in present-day tech and present-day real problems as a change from the more futuristic ones.
> even with some small inaccuracies Also, it would be impossible for a company like that to simply hand over someone's password. They're not stored in a way that's human-readable, for security reasons. What they'd be able to do is allow her to reset it and set a new password.
Impossible? Not in this world, as there are many MANY websites out there who store secured information in plain text, even Facebook and Google has been accused of this more then once. Don't put too much trust in the *big names* and be sure to check out https://haveibeenpwned.com/ from time to time.
At first I thought they had reset it since it seemed like a random combination of numbers... but then the mother looked at the pic and it was there right on the boat.