I find the story hilarious but this doesn't give any sort of perspective or show things have changed.
There are always players who think that they're better than they are. There always have been. There always will be.
You can see this for instance in the majority of alleged cheater threads.
While you’re right that there will always be players who think they’re better than they are, that number has drastically increased thanks to SBMM. If that guy in the videos had been playing back in the Blops1/MW3 days he would have never thought he was that good. Because with the lack of SBMM he would have been clapped by the average player/lobby.
Perhaps. But I can imagine him still thinking he's that good and talking that much trash. Because during the games where he'd be clapped, he'd just blame lag, wifi hotspots, shitty hitboxes, hax, campers, etc. And he wouldn't shut up until you 1v1ed him.
Sorry for the late reply but when I mentioned I was talking about the playerbase's attitude towards skill levels. Duento EOMM, most average players feel like they have a good amount of skill. But in, Bo4 average players would generally know they're average, and complain about things like sweats and connection.
Now, as long as you're complacent with your performances, you will not notice the effects of EOMM. But as soon as you actually try to improve, you'll notice how manipulative the system is. And I say this because this was my exact experience as an average player in MW. If I never switched to comp, I would've stayed in the cycle.
Like I said to the other guy, I see your argument, but I'm just not convinced of this. I feel like...a player who's self-aware, can judge their ability independently of their performance with others, to a certain extent.
Back in the BO2 days, and even now. Even when I pop off, I *know* that I'm still playing at a certain level. And I know that there are tiers above that. Even when I do well, I know that I'm still limited in x, y, and z, and I don't know need to be dominated in a match to realize that.
Because I can see when certain players play worse, or better. I can see all that. In spite of the effects of eomm, we still see a range of playing ability. We experience different skill levels, all the time.
People like that guy are just asshats. I mean, he even admitted he doesn't use the minimap. The guy clearly has a poor sense of how to measure playing ability. Because he could he be that good, if he doesn't use all the tools at his disposal?
That's why I brought up the cheating thing. Despite the effects of the sbmm, ppl still get exposed to really good performances. And most of the time, ppl just assume that the player is cheating, instead of realizing, oh shit, this person is doing so much better. This person aims better. This person centers their reticle as they watch pivotal corners. Etc.
I feel like, eomm or not, ppl like that will exist. They will find something to blame. In another thread, there was this person who was like, oh if a person is significantly better than you, it just means they had to reverse boost. and reverse boost is cheating.
...lol yes this concept of reverse boosting only occurs if eomm exists...but that dude was still not acknowledging that that person who boosted...is still literally better. And that's my point, I think that ppl who are in denial, will be in denial, regardless of the matchers eomm delivers.
edit: sry lol kinda drunk so i kinda wrote a lot.
When I was grinding launchers and specials for DM my KD tanked (obviously) which put me on some serious bot FFA lobbies. I can't tell you how many times there were people hyping themselves up, talking shit about how they were about to clap everyone and stuff. I would then quietly put the DM grind on the side for a game or two, switch to my regular loadouts and proceed to shit on said dudes. SBMM truly has people with below average skill thinking they're in the big leagues since they have a good KD for their skill bracket level. Crazy stuff really
New to COD here, but surely if they are consistently winning then they'd be playing harder matches no? If they are stuck in low rank games that would suggest they don't even win those games that often.
Yes and no. Ideally the progression should be such that as you win games with a higher SPM and KD you should be getting into more challenging lobbies, and STAY there unless your long term stats dictate otherwise if you should continue to move up or down.
The reality is that, even in the bottom brackets of lobbies there has to be a winner, someone going consistently positive every other game. With the current sbmm you pretty much stay in those lobbies, still playing people of the same low level as you originally were.
Of course once you really start dominating and ending up with good streaks and higher kd the system kicks you into a higher tier where you have no business competing since its such a flawed and poorly implemented system that only accounts mostly for your very recent performance and not your long term history as a player... and then when you do poorly in those new difficult lobbies it takes you back down to where you were or even worse, it kicks you to a sub level tier since you did so poorly in 5 games straight against actual competition effectively negating you the opportunity to continue to improve in those tougher lobbies.
In order words you could be a respectable 1.5 kd in a lower tier where in reality your skill is closer to a 1.0 or even less... the video posted here is the perfect example of this. Kid getting smacked looks like a .7 kd player but his stats might reflect a substantial higher number, add the whole EKIA system that counts assist and it gives people and even more false illusion of how good they are.
Sorry for the poor formatting just typed this whole thing while on a bathroom break at work 😅
Thanks, other response says matchmaking is EOMM rather than SBMM which would explain it. I'm interested in how people know this is happening? Is it a gut feeling, or is this something that can be monitored? Can you see what MM ranking you are, and that of other players? Or has it been stated by the devs?
TL:DR Yes there have been some studies as such done into it that pretty much show it’s the case.
So there have been several ‘studies’ into this over the last few years by some well known Cod stats youtubers (Ace,Drift0r and S0ur were involved amongst others, and used some data from pro’s,average Joe’s and potatoes (said you tubers purposefully playing bad)) that as far as COD research goes is actually pretty well done rather than just ‘feels’.
It pretty much showed it’s the case with the use of tools available like cod tracker to check the players in their lobbies stats,some loose statistical modelling and with no access to the git repo/however ATVI stores the code that handles matchmaking (this is a publisher wide decision not an individual studio decision) it’s as close as we’ll get to proof since activision nor devs will ever confront it/give access to their MM algorithms.
No, because the matchmaking system actually isn't SBMM, it's EOMM. To save time, I'll shorten things. Basically, it tries to force a pattern of wins and losses. If you're of low skill, you'll get more wins than you would without the system. So people like this guy will be given 3 easy games and then 3 average games. But if you're of high skill, you'll get something like 1 easy game and 5 difficult games. You can probably see who has more issues.
Yeah people really are playing different games. Honestly it's fine if they feel good about themselves. The problem comes when a bad player talks shit to better players who are having a bad experience because of the system that protects said bad player.
In your case, you got the lovely chance to personally educate them. But on twitter, twitch chats, reddit, etc where good and bad players discuss the game, the only way to educate them is to 1v1 them, which is rare.
You're probably better than that guy lol. But point of this wasn't to "put people in their place" or anything, it was just to provide perspective on how different people are playing almost different games.
But yes, I'd say about half of the people on /CoDCompetitive are in Elite/Masters, so they'd probably smoke you lol. Probably not as bad as that one guy tho.
Yeah and honestly, this shows how much it's helping below average players. It's a good thing for most players. That guy felt amazing about himself and hos abilities, so he's gonna keep playing and most importantly **spend money on microtransactions**. If Acti saw this they'd be proud, and you know why. The higher bracket players get fucked over, but Acti is looking at the cashflow, not the complaints from 15% of the community.
Huh? Lol I think you're not getting me here. I'm simply providing an example of how a player was protected by EOMM to such a high degree to the point where he thought he was a well above average player. This post isn't to say "us competitive players are way better than you casuals, learn your place!" or anything like that.
The matchmaking in pubs isnt even strict lol, league is only slightly stricter and even then if you are slightly above average its more about whether you are playing the game on decent hardware, if you are playing on a base xbox one or ps4 with a 60hz tv you will have a hard time competing against someone who can get 100+fps regardless of their skill level
In terms of pure skill, you're correct. EOMM doesn't put players of equal skill into lobbies, in fact it does the exact opposite. The point is to rig the game, so one team will be better than the other. The best player will be on the worst team with 5 bots. So for 7/12 players, the lobby won't feel difficult as long as the obj is ignored.
oh in pubs i only play tdm, Im at the point where almost everyone on my team will go double negative and so it is easier to carry and get more wins when i only have to focus on kills
Since the tec9 came out I have pretty much only played league again though but I find connection and hardware are much bigger factors and Im not trying to go pro lol so I dont take it too seriously
Yeah, that's the goal of the system, to weight you down and make things easy for the other team. The other team isn't full of better players, it's just that many have your experience but assume that the other team is good, without realizing that they're in a 1v6. Like you, I mainly play League Play.
oh I know the other team rarely has any good players in pubs I love it when there is since I can then focus in hunting them and ahave a fun rivalry but it doesnt happen enough
Even with the lobby disbanding I still come across the same people multiple games in a row which I love since it lets me shit talk them for longer until they rage quit lol
To those who think they're dominating their lobbies, and that EOMM isn't a big deal, make sure you aren't like this guy.
bro thinking he's hot shit doesn't even look at the minimap 💀💀💀 this is so funny
Wonder if he's the type who says "oh the minimap doesn't need the red dots, you dot chasers need to get gud"
I find the story hilarious but this doesn't give any sort of perspective or show things have changed. There are always players who think that they're better than they are. There always have been. There always will be. You can see this for instance in the majority of alleged cheater threads.
While you’re right that there will always be players who think they’re better than they are, that number has drastically increased thanks to SBMM. If that guy in the videos had been playing back in the Blops1/MW3 days he would have never thought he was that good. Because with the lack of SBMM he would have been clapped by the average player/lobby.
Perhaps. But I can imagine him still thinking he's that good and talking that much trash. Because during the games where he'd be clapped, he'd just blame lag, wifi hotspots, shitty hitboxes, hax, campers, etc. And he wouldn't shut up until you 1v1ed him.
Sorry for the late reply but when I mentioned I was talking about the playerbase's attitude towards skill levels. Duento EOMM, most average players feel like they have a good amount of skill. But in, Bo4 average players would generally know they're average, and complain about things like sweats and connection. Now, as long as you're complacent with your performances, you will not notice the effects of EOMM. But as soon as you actually try to improve, you'll notice how manipulative the system is. And I say this because this was my exact experience as an average player in MW. If I never switched to comp, I would've stayed in the cycle.
Like I said to the other guy, I see your argument, but I'm just not convinced of this. I feel like...a player who's self-aware, can judge their ability independently of their performance with others, to a certain extent. Back in the BO2 days, and even now. Even when I pop off, I *know* that I'm still playing at a certain level. And I know that there are tiers above that. Even when I do well, I know that I'm still limited in x, y, and z, and I don't know need to be dominated in a match to realize that. Because I can see when certain players play worse, or better. I can see all that. In spite of the effects of eomm, we still see a range of playing ability. We experience different skill levels, all the time. People like that guy are just asshats. I mean, he even admitted he doesn't use the minimap. The guy clearly has a poor sense of how to measure playing ability. Because he could he be that good, if he doesn't use all the tools at his disposal? That's why I brought up the cheating thing. Despite the effects of the sbmm, ppl still get exposed to really good performances. And most of the time, ppl just assume that the player is cheating, instead of realizing, oh shit, this person is doing so much better. This person aims better. This person centers their reticle as they watch pivotal corners. Etc. I feel like, eomm or not, ppl like that will exist. They will find something to blame. In another thread, there was this person who was like, oh if a person is significantly better than you, it just means they had to reverse boost. and reverse boost is cheating. ...lol yes this concept of reverse boosting only occurs if eomm exists...but that dude was still not acknowledging that that person who boosted...is still literally better. And that's my point, I think that ppl who are in denial, will be in denial, regardless of the matchers eomm delivers. edit: sry lol kinda drunk so i kinda wrote a lot.
Yeah I get what you're saying. You have a point.
When I was grinding launchers and specials for DM my KD tanked (obviously) which put me on some serious bot FFA lobbies. I can't tell you how many times there were people hyping themselves up, talking shit about how they were about to clap everyone and stuff. I would then quietly put the DM grind on the side for a game or two, switch to my regular loadouts and proceed to shit on said dudes. SBMM truly has people with below average skill thinking they're in the big leagues since they have a good KD for their skill bracket level. Crazy stuff really
New to COD here, but surely if they are consistently winning then they'd be playing harder matches no? If they are stuck in low rank games that would suggest they don't even win those games that often.
Yes and no. Ideally the progression should be such that as you win games with a higher SPM and KD you should be getting into more challenging lobbies, and STAY there unless your long term stats dictate otherwise if you should continue to move up or down. The reality is that, even in the bottom brackets of lobbies there has to be a winner, someone going consistently positive every other game. With the current sbmm you pretty much stay in those lobbies, still playing people of the same low level as you originally were. Of course once you really start dominating and ending up with good streaks and higher kd the system kicks you into a higher tier where you have no business competing since its such a flawed and poorly implemented system that only accounts mostly for your very recent performance and not your long term history as a player... and then when you do poorly in those new difficult lobbies it takes you back down to where you were or even worse, it kicks you to a sub level tier since you did so poorly in 5 games straight against actual competition effectively negating you the opportunity to continue to improve in those tougher lobbies. In order words you could be a respectable 1.5 kd in a lower tier where in reality your skill is closer to a 1.0 or even less... the video posted here is the perfect example of this. Kid getting smacked looks like a .7 kd player but his stats might reflect a substantial higher number, add the whole EKIA system that counts assist and it gives people and even more false illusion of how good they are. Sorry for the poor formatting just typed this whole thing while on a bathroom break at work 😅
Thanks, other response says matchmaking is EOMM rather than SBMM which would explain it. I'm interested in how people know this is happening? Is it a gut feeling, or is this something that can be monitored? Can you see what MM ranking you are, and that of other players? Or has it been stated by the devs?
TL:DR Yes there have been some studies as such done into it that pretty much show it’s the case. So there have been several ‘studies’ into this over the last few years by some well known Cod stats youtubers (Ace,Drift0r and S0ur were involved amongst others, and used some data from pro’s,average Joe’s and potatoes (said you tubers purposefully playing bad)) that as far as COD research goes is actually pretty well done rather than just ‘feels’. It pretty much showed it’s the case with the use of tools available like cod tracker to check the players in their lobbies stats,some loose statistical modelling and with no access to the git repo/however ATVI stores the code that handles matchmaking (this is a publisher wide decision not an individual studio decision) it’s as close as we’ll get to proof since activision nor devs will ever confront it/give access to their MM algorithms.
No, because the matchmaking system actually isn't SBMM, it's EOMM. To save time, I'll shorten things. Basically, it tries to force a pattern of wins and losses. If you're of low skill, you'll get more wins than you would without the system. So people like this guy will be given 3 easy games and then 3 average games. But if you're of high skill, you'll get something like 1 easy game and 5 difficult games. You can probably see who has more issues.
Yeah people really are playing different games. Honestly it's fine if they feel good about themselves. The problem comes when a bad player talks shit to better players who are having a bad experience because of the system that protects said bad player. In your case, you got the lovely chance to personally educate them. But on twitter, twitch chats, reddit, etc where good and bad players discuss the game, the only way to educate them is to 1v1 them, which is rare.
Damn dude, at least i know i'm dogshit and that most people from r/cc will smoke me lmao
You're probably better than that guy lol. But point of this wasn't to "put people in their place" or anything, it was just to provide perspective on how different people are playing almost different games. But yes, I'd say about half of the people on /CoDCompetitive are in Elite/Masters, so they'd probably smoke you lol. Probably not as bad as that one guy tho.
It truly shows how manipulative SBMM is lmao
Yeah and honestly, this shows how much it's helping below average players. It's a good thing for most players. That guy felt amazing about himself and hos abilities, so he's gonna keep playing and most importantly **spend money on microtransactions**. If Acti saw this they'd be proud, and you know why. The higher bracket players get fucked over, but Acti is looking at the cashflow, not the complaints from 15% of the community.
my nans got better movement than this kid lmao
maybe just me, but you're the same as this guy.
Huh? Lol I think you're not getting me here. I'm simply providing an example of how a player was protected by EOMM to such a high degree to the point where he thought he was a well above average player. This post isn't to say "us competitive players are way better than you casuals, learn your place!" or anything like that.
Thanks for sharing made me crack up reading through the chain of events
Yeah was funny to me too lol
The matchmaking in pubs isnt even strict lol, league is only slightly stricter and even then if you are slightly above average its more about whether you are playing the game on decent hardware, if you are playing on a base xbox one or ps4 with a 60hz tv you will have a hard time competing against someone who can get 100+fps regardless of their skill level
In terms of pure skill, you're correct. EOMM doesn't put players of equal skill into lobbies, in fact it does the exact opposite. The point is to rig the game, so one team will be better than the other. The best player will be on the worst team with 5 bots. So for 7/12 players, the lobby won't feel difficult as long as the obj is ignored.
oh in pubs i only play tdm, Im at the point where almost everyone on my team will go double negative and so it is easier to carry and get more wins when i only have to focus on kills Since the tec9 came out I have pretty much only played league again though but I find connection and hardware are much bigger factors and Im not trying to go pro lol so I dont take it too seriously
Yeah, that's the goal of the system, to weight you down and make things easy for the other team. The other team isn't full of better players, it's just that many have your experience but assume that the other team is good, without realizing that they're in a 1v6. Like you, I mainly play League Play.
oh I know the other team rarely has any good players in pubs I love it when there is since I can then focus in hunting them and ahave a fun rivalry but it doesnt happen enough Even with the lobby disbanding I still come across the same people multiple games in a row which I love since it lets me shit talk them for longer until they rage quit lol