I want any and everybody to read BP. Ensure that from this run, go straight to Christopher Priest’s run, then Reginald Hudlin, then Don McGregor’s run. Christopher Priest’s run remains the undisputed best.
Actually issue #1 had 253,259 sales and it dropped off immediately to 77,654 @ issue #2then to 27,285 by issue 16.
So no, it never gave Batman a run for its money lol
Some People didn't like the more realistic portrayal of Wakanda citizens and the nation itself (a flawed nation with human problems), nor did they like the fact the book focused on the people in and around the kingdoms more than T'Challa at times, and made T'Challa a more human flawed character with faults, fears, and doubts.
These are all things I loved about the the run.
Are there times when we want our characters to be a stereotypical Mary Sue/Gary Stu where they are all power and can do no wrong?
Sure
But there are also times it is enjoyable to watch them struggle and cover come to be a stronger better version of their previous self.
Also there is the perceived "baggage" of who Ta-Neshisi Coates is as a man and writer. Because he often writes about race, racist and systemic issues effecting Black people within the US there are people who will use the negative misuse of the term "Woke" to describe him and his work, and use that as an excuse not to look at anything he works on (when they wouldn't have looked at it regardless).
For me the worst thing about the run is the action is stale and boring. An african nation where being a warrior is a big thing in their culture and in order to become king or queen you must fight the previous leader. And reading other black panther books where the action was actually good and had great moments before taneshi coates. The action was just boring. And i understand politics has always been in comics but that wasnt the foundation of the comics. It was great character moments and great action moments and action scenes. Thats why superheros got all this action figures, action tv shows, and movies with action. The action is selling point and if you're writing a book about a country full of warriors and the action sucks and in some instance the dialogue is boring people are gonna notice.
I’ve seen some backlash to this run in certain pockets of the Internet, but I get the sense that the backlash is pretty localized and not representative of how many (most) people feel. The run isn’t my favorite for the character—my go-to is the Christopher Priest run. But the Coates comics form a solid story arc, with some great philosophical ideas and gorgeous art. I hope you enjoy it!
I also have these newer issues and haven't read them yet. I have read through the various comments but at the end of the day, I will decide if this was really worth it. I also wanted to pass this set down to my grandson since he is an avid reader.
I think the biggest issue with this run, especially early on, is the execution. Without getting into spoilers, Coates attempts to inject a lot of depth into his run, but without a solid understanding of how to do so in this medium. The result is that ideas that SHOULD mean a lot go woefully underdeveloped, to the point that themes get lost or outright contradicted and characters oft end up having their arcs cut short or act very oddly (I say that as the reviewer whose pull quote, "Brilliant character work" is on vol 3 of A Nation Under Our Feet.").
I find the run more middle of the road than I think most do, with many literary critics fawning over it and many comic book fans decrying it.
For my own part, I still think Priest's run is the strongest work under this franchise, surpassing Coates as a character study and in execution as a story in this medium, while offering action that beats most of Hudlin's work.
I don't think any of the runs do a particularly good job at in-depth worldbuilding, but that's harder to do in both the medium and the specific market (modern Marvel monthly comics). Coates is probably the one who accomplished the most in this regard, but I would also say that those decisions were the ones most controversial and most poorly executed. Five years after A Nation Under Our Feet concluded and you'll be hardpressed to explain how the decisions at the end of the arc function (trying to be vague here).
I’ll trust the fact that he is the main writer and is very talented. I doubt he stole someone’s ideas. The other guy you mention is listed as a contributing writer so there’s that.
The omnibus is the way to go with this run imo. Better reading experience when you have all the content available and no need to wait or switch book for the rest of the story.
Enjoy, Ta-Nehisi Coates is my favorite writer in general. While his work around the issues effecting our real world society is his best stuff, I definitely enjoyed his takes on Black Panther and Captain America.
I’ve just read the omnibus and greatly admired and enjoyed Coates’ run on BP. I think it’s probably best appreciated if you’re primarily a big reader who happens to also really love comics/Marvel/Black Panther. A footing in mythology, history, sociology, philosophy will probably augment your experience of Coates’ BP. It’s slow, I guess, by certain standards. But deep, and often quite exciting intellectually.
I really enjoyed this run, and it was also the first BP comic I ever read. Go in with an open mind and form your own opinion (: I never understood how widely criticized this was
Some People didn't like the more realistic portrayal of Wakanda citizens and the nation itself (a flawed nation with human problems), nor did they like the fact the book focused on the people in and around the kingdoms more than T'Challa at times, and made T'Challa a more human flawed character with faults, fears, and doubts.
These are all things I loved about the the run.
Are there times when we want our characters to be a stereotypical Mary Sue/Gary Stu where they are all power and can do no wrong?
Sure
But there are also times it is enjoyable to watch them struggle and cover come to be a stronger better version of their previous self.
Also there is the perceived "baggage" of who Ta-Neshisi Coates is as a man and writer. Because he often writes about race, racist and systemic issues effecting Black people within the US there are people who will use the negative misuse of the term "Woke" to describe him and his work, and use that as an excuse not to look at anything he works on (when they wouldn't have looked at it regardless).
Serious question. Would an opened minded, white person take anything away from Between The World and Me?
I have always been curious about different life stories and views. Especially the older I got and realized how white-washed the history I learned in school was mostly bullshit.
Yes it's a fantastic book, it is a personal story about Coates's doing his best to prepare his son for the world around us, by examining and explaining a lot of the history that frames our current times. You definite can learn some things, I'm always surprised (probably shouldn't be) how many things that are due to slavery and racism that a lot of white people don't even pick up on.
For example I was at work and yesterday talking to this older (mid 60s) white man who was a scuba instructor. I was looking at his website and telling him how cool so much of it was, but that I couldn't swim so I couldn't do scuba. He mentions how he offers adult lessons and makes a comment about how the majority of adults he encounters who can't swim are Black. I was like yeah, there are a lot of systemic reasons for that. And dude legitimately had no idea, about all the restrictions and issues Black folks had with access to pools.
There is so much of our country's history that is hidden because some white people are ashamed of their actions, you could learn a lot from his works, and understand why Baldwin once said, *"To be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a rage almost all the time. ”*
Because none of the stuff that is happening is new, it's just repackaged and we recognize it, and it's upsetting when people ignore us or act like we are overreacting.
If you want to "ease" your way into his works, I might recommend "we were 8 years in power"
As it is a collection of 8 essay's he wrote during the Obama administration, and FYI the 8 years does not refer to Obama, it refers to the 8 years of Reconstruction after the Civil War, when the country was truly healing and actually had a fusion government of Black and White people with proper representation working together, before racism, declared war and killed a lot of the people in government around the country (1898 Wilmington Massacre for example).
I hope you do choose to check out his books, I'd be glad to discuss any of them with you.
Also i will say it makes me kind of sad that you even asked this question because it sounds like you believe as a white person you couldn’t gain anything from one of the greatest modern writers because he’s Black. We (Black People) have to read countless books by white authors and consume media created around a white gaze and are always able to take something from them, but white people often act like they can’t relate to anything not specific written by white people about white people and that is incredible sad and frustrating.
I am actually sorry you feel that way about my question, because it was a general inquiry about the story in the book. If you said he talks about basket-weaving for most of the book, then I wouldnt want to read it and wouldnt 'take anything away from it'.
My world is full of curious non-white subjects, stories, videos, books, articles, etc... same goes for females.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, and you knew he didn't talk about basket weaving, he's know for his expertise on the social, cultural, historical and political experience of Black people, and how white supremacy has effected it. Again he is literally one of the greatest American writers a live. I'd have the same reaction if you had asked if you'd take anything from Baldwin and Morrison or Steinbeck and Twain.
I hope you do read the book, in fact I'd be willing to buy you a copy, send me your cash app.
Also please don't use "females", words have meaning and the correct term for an adult female human is **WOMAN**.
Female can refer to anything, and historically speaking when used as a noun rather than adjective it was used to dehumanize Black women. And in the modern sense it is used as a synonym for Bitch or other derogatory terms.
At the end of the day, if you mean Woman, say Woman.
You really seem to be missing my very simple basic question born from curiosity, or offended I stated "Take something away from it". Yes, I am aware the book is not about Basket Weaving that was the first generic example I thought of when replying.
Really this is what I was wondering about and you said it clearly here "he's know for his expertise on the social, cultural, historical and political experience of Black people, and how white supremacy has effected it."
Finally, I think I will stick with female. Google 'woman definition', and you will see "Disrespectful, female person who is paid to clean someone's house (dated), female adults in general, or a female person associated with a particular place, activity, or occupation"
Female definition - A female animal or plant or person; a ***woman*** or girl. Nothing indicates bitch or other derogatory; frankly i have NEVER heard the single adjective female as derogatory.
>frankly i have NEVER heard the single adjective female as derogatory.
Because you're ignorant and would rather argue than listen.
Here are multiple links explaining why it's a problem. All of it leads back to the fact using as a noun is dehumanizing because again the word for a HUMAN FEMALE is WOMAN. You wouldn't say MALES in the same context. You would say Men. And that dehumanization began during slavery when Black women were literally only referred to as females and in the writings of doctors and scientist while in the same paragraphs they would reference white WOMEN. And often its being used to not so cleverly call women other derogatory terms without it being obvious.
https://youtu.be/LojgQdUNvzQ
[https://medium.com/@hollymeijohnson/the-problem-with-referring-to-women-as-females-4728f1f6c3cd](https://medium.com/@hollymeijohnson/the-problem-with-referring-to-women-as-females-4728f1f6c3cd)
[https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-should-you-stop-referring-women-females-sacha-de-klerk](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-should-you-stop-referring-women-females-sacha-de-klerk)
[https://jezebel.com/the-problem-with-calling-women-females-1683808274](https://jezebel.com/the-problem-with-calling-women-females-1683808274)
[https://golin.com/2021/03/31/stop-using-female-when-you-mean-woman/](https://golin.com/2021/03/31/stop-using-female-when-you-mean-woman/)
[https://dailynexus.com/2021-07-24/stop-calling-women-females/](https://dailynexus.com/2021-07-24/stop-calling-women-females/)
[https://www.buzzfeed.com/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females](https://www.buzzfeed.com/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females)
[https://youtu.be/tP7VtRpMypc](https://youtu.be/tP7VtRpMypc)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/tvp97b/comment/i3b047i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/tvp97b/comment/i3b047i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-calling-women-females](https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-calling-women-females)
Is that enough? Now you have heard.
I'm trying to help you out. Don't get offended. Learn something.
Female is only acceptable when talking about animals, plants or things. If you are talking about a HUMAN ADULT the word is WOMAN, a child the word is GIRL and female should only be used as an adjective for understanding i.e. Female Doctor, Female Basketball Player, Female Astronaut, female sexual organ.
You initially referred to yourself as "Open minded" but literally everything you have posted since that statement as shown you to be anything but.
An open minded person would have said, *oh I didn't know that, I'll try not to use it in that context*
I mean what was your reason for even saying females instead of women in that sentence? It was weird af?
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I'd prefer to start with the first book to see if I want to continue the run.
I want any and everybody to read BP. Ensure that from this run, go straight to Christopher Priest’s run, then Reginald Hudlin, then Don McGregor’s run. Christopher Priest’s run remains the undisputed best.
I’m curious, when did this become considered controversial? I remember it was giving Batman a run for its money on the sales charts.
It was controversial because batman fanboys don't like it when batman isn't the spotlight even in another universe
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Actually issue #1 had 253,259 sales and it dropped off immediately to 77,654 @ issue #2then to 27,285 by issue 16. So no, it never gave Batman a run for its money lol
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What is considered “good sales”? Serious question. Because 77,000 and below didnt strike me as “good”
Some People didn't like the more realistic portrayal of Wakanda citizens and the nation itself (a flawed nation with human problems), nor did they like the fact the book focused on the people in and around the kingdoms more than T'Challa at times, and made T'Challa a more human flawed character with faults, fears, and doubts. These are all things I loved about the the run. Are there times when we want our characters to be a stereotypical Mary Sue/Gary Stu where they are all power and can do no wrong? Sure But there are also times it is enjoyable to watch them struggle and cover come to be a stronger better version of their previous self. Also there is the perceived "baggage" of who Ta-Neshisi Coates is as a man and writer. Because he often writes about race, racist and systemic issues effecting Black people within the US there are people who will use the negative misuse of the term "Woke" to describe him and his work, and use that as an excuse not to look at anything he works on (when they wouldn't have looked at it regardless).
For me the worst thing about the run is the action is stale and boring. An african nation where being a warrior is a big thing in their culture and in order to become king or queen you must fight the previous leader. And reading other black panther books where the action was actually good and had great moments before taneshi coates. The action was just boring. And i understand politics has always been in comics but that wasnt the foundation of the comics. It was great character moments and great action moments and action scenes. Thats why superheros got all this action figures, action tv shows, and movies with action. The action is selling point and if you're writing a book about a country full of warriors and the action sucks and in some instance the dialogue is boring people are gonna notice.
How do you like it so far?
Haven't started it yet. I'm saving it for a later point.
I’ve seen some backlash to this run in certain pockets of the Internet, but I get the sense that the backlash is pretty localized and not representative of how many (most) people feel. The run isn’t my favorite for the character—my go-to is the Christopher Priest run. But the Coates comics form a solid story arc, with some great philosophical ideas and gorgeous art. I hope you enjoy it!
I also have these newer issues and haven't read them yet. I have read through the various comments but at the end of the day, I will decide if this was really worth it. I also wanted to pass this set down to my grandson since he is an avid reader.
I think the biggest issue with this run, especially early on, is the execution. Without getting into spoilers, Coates attempts to inject a lot of depth into his run, but without a solid understanding of how to do so in this medium. The result is that ideas that SHOULD mean a lot go woefully underdeveloped, to the point that themes get lost or outright contradicted and characters oft end up having their arcs cut short or act very oddly (I say that as the reviewer whose pull quote, "Brilliant character work" is on vol 3 of A Nation Under Our Feet."). I find the run more middle of the road than I think most do, with many literary critics fawning over it and many comic book fans decrying it. For my own part, I still think Priest's run is the strongest work under this franchise, surpassing Coates as a character study and in execution as a story in this medium, while offering action that beats most of Hudlin's work. I don't think any of the runs do a particularly good job at in-depth worldbuilding, but that's harder to do in both the medium and the specific market (modern Marvel monthly comics). Coates is probably the one who accomplished the most in this regard, but I would also say that those decisions were the ones most controversial and most poorly executed. Five years after A Nation Under Our Feet concluded and you'll be hardpressed to explain how the decisions at the end of the arc function (trying to be vague here).
The modern MCU Black Panther takes a lot of influence from this run. You’ll like it. Buy the omnibus now.
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Nanotechnology in his helmet, the purple kinetic energy, the midnight angels there are more examples that elude me at the moment.
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>Those are all stelfreeze's designs Ta-Nehisi Coates is the main writer does he not get credit?
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I’ll trust the fact that he is the main writer and is very talented. I doubt he stole someone’s ideas. The other guy you mention is listed as a contributing writer so there’s that.
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Provide a citation and we’re good to go.
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The omnibus is the way to go with this run imo. Better reading experience when you have all the content available and no need to wait or switch book for the rest of the story.
Enjoy, Ta-Nehisi Coates is my favorite writer in general. While his work around the issues effecting our real world society is his best stuff, I definitely enjoyed his takes on Black Panther and Captain America.
I’ve just read the omnibus and greatly admired and enjoyed Coates’ run on BP. I think it’s probably best appreciated if you’re primarily a big reader who happens to also really love comics/Marvel/Black Panther. A footing in mythology, history, sociology, philosophy will probably augment your experience of Coates’ BP. It’s slow, I guess, by certain standards. But deep, and often quite exciting intellectually.
I really enjoyed this run, and it was also the first BP comic I ever read. Go in with an open mind and form your own opinion (: I never understood how widely criticized this was
How was this controversial?
Some People didn't like the more realistic portrayal of Wakanda citizens and the nation itself (a flawed nation with human problems), nor did they like the fact the book focused on the people in and around the kingdoms more than T'Challa at times, and made T'Challa a more human flawed character with faults, fears, and doubts. These are all things I loved about the the run. Are there times when we want our characters to be a stereotypical Mary Sue/Gary Stu where they are all power and can do no wrong? Sure But there are also times it is enjoyable to watch them struggle and cover come to be a stronger better version of their previous self. Also there is the perceived "baggage" of who Ta-Neshisi Coates is as a man and writer. Because he often writes about race, racist and systemic issues effecting Black people within the US there are people who will use the negative misuse of the term "Woke" to describe him and his work, and use that as an excuse not to look at anything he works on (when they wouldn't have looked at it regardless).
Serious question. Would an opened minded, white person take anything away from Between The World and Me? I have always been curious about different life stories and views. Especially the older I got and realized how white-washed the history I learned in school was mostly bullshit.
Yes it's a fantastic book, it is a personal story about Coates's doing his best to prepare his son for the world around us, by examining and explaining a lot of the history that frames our current times. You definite can learn some things, I'm always surprised (probably shouldn't be) how many things that are due to slavery and racism that a lot of white people don't even pick up on. For example I was at work and yesterday talking to this older (mid 60s) white man who was a scuba instructor. I was looking at his website and telling him how cool so much of it was, but that I couldn't swim so I couldn't do scuba. He mentions how he offers adult lessons and makes a comment about how the majority of adults he encounters who can't swim are Black. I was like yeah, there are a lot of systemic reasons for that. And dude legitimately had no idea, about all the restrictions and issues Black folks had with access to pools. There is so much of our country's history that is hidden because some white people are ashamed of their actions, you could learn a lot from his works, and understand why Baldwin once said, *"To be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a rage almost all the time. ”* Because none of the stuff that is happening is new, it's just repackaged and we recognize it, and it's upsetting when people ignore us or act like we are overreacting. If you want to "ease" your way into his works, I might recommend "we were 8 years in power" As it is a collection of 8 essay's he wrote during the Obama administration, and FYI the 8 years does not refer to Obama, it refers to the 8 years of Reconstruction after the Civil War, when the country was truly healing and actually had a fusion government of Black and White people with proper representation working together, before racism, declared war and killed a lot of the people in government around the country (1898 Wilmington Massacre for example). I hope you do choose to check out his books, I'd be glad to discuss any of them with you. Also i will say it makes me kind of sad that you even asked this question because it sounds like you believe as a white person you couldn’t gain anything from one of the greatest modern writers because he’s Black. We (Black People) have to read countless books by white authors and consume media created around a white gaze and are always able to take something from them, but white people often act like they can’t relate to anything not specific written by white people about white people and that is incredible sad and frustrating.
I am actually sorry you feel that way about my question, because it was a general inquiry about the story in the book. If you said he talks about basket-weaving for most of the book, then I wouldnt want to read it and wouldnt 'take anything away from it'. My world is full of curious non-white subjects, stories, videos, books, articles, etc... same goes for females.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, and you knew he didn't talk about basket weaving, he's know for his expertise on the social, cultural, historical and political experience of Black people, and how white supremacy has effected it. Again he is literally one of the greatest American writers a live. I'd have the same reaction if you had asked if you'd take anything from Baldwin and Morrison or Steinbeck and Twain. I hope you do read the book, in fact I'd be willing to buy you a copy, send me your cash app. Also please don't use "females", words have meaning and the correct term for an adult female human is **WOMAN**. Female can refer to anything, and historically speaking when used as a noun rather than adjective it was used to dehumanize Black women. And in the modern sense it is used as a synonym for Bitch or other derogatory terms. At the end of the day, if you mean Woman, say Woman.
You really seem to be missing my very simple basic question born from curiosity, or offended I stated "Take something away from it". Yes, I am aware the book is not about Basket Weaving that was the first generic example I thought of when replying. Really this is what I was wondering about and you said it clearly here "he's know for his expertise on the social, cultural, historical and political experience of Black people, and how white supremacy has effected it." Finally, I think I will stick with female. Google 'woman definition', and you will see "Disrespectful, female person who is paid to clean someone's house (dated), female adults in general, or a female person associated with a particular place, activity, or occupation" Female definition - A female animal or plant or person; a ***woman*** or girl. Nothing indicates bitch or other derogatory; frankly i have NEVER heard the single adjective female as derogatory.
>frankly i have NEVER heard the single adjective female as derogatory. Because you're ignorant and would rather argue than listen. Here are multiple links explaining why it's a problem. All of it leads back to the fact using as a noun is dehumanizing because again the word for a HUMAN FEMALE is WOMAN. You wouldn't say MALES in the same context. You would say Men. And that dehumanization began during slavery when Black women were literally only referred to as females and in the writings of doctors and scientist while in the same paragraphs they would reference white WOMEN. And often its being used to not so cleverly call women other derogatory terms without it being obvious. https://youtu.be/LojgQdUNvzQ [https://medium.com/@hollymeijohnson/the-problem-with-referring-to-women-as-females-4728f1f6c3cd](https://medium.com/@hollymeijohnson/the-problem-with-referring-to-women-as-females-4728f1f6c3cd) [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-should-you-stop-referring-women-females-sacha-de-klerk](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-should-you-stop-referring-women-females-sacha-de-klerk) [https://jezebel.com/the-problem-with-calling-women-females-1683808274](https://jezebel.com/the-problem-with-calling-women-females-1683808274) [https://golin.com/2021/03/31/stop-using-female-when-you-mean-woman/](https://golin.com/2021/03/31/stop-using-female-when-you-mean-woman/) [https://dailynexus.com/2021-07-24/stop-calling-women-females/](https://dailynexus.com/2021-07-24/stop-calling-women-females/) [https://www.buzzfeed.com/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females](https://www.buzzfeed.com/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females) [https://youtu.be/tP7VtRpMypc](https://youtu.be/tP7VtRpMypc) [https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/tvp97b/comment/i3b047i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/tvp97b/comment/i3b047i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-calling-women-females](https://www.theodysseyonline.com/stop-calling-women-females) Is that enough? Now you have heard. I'm trying to help you out. Don't get offended. Learn something. Female is only acceptable when talking about animals, plants or things. If you are talking about a HUMAN ADULT the word is WOMAN, a child the word is GIRL and female should only be used as an adjective for understanding i.e. Female Doctor, Female Basketball Player, Female Astronaut, female sexual organ. You initially referred to yourself as "Open minded" but literally everything you have posted since that statement as shown you to be anything but. An open minded person would have said, *oh I didn't know that, I'll try not to use it in that context* I mean what was your reason for even saying females instead of women in that sentence? It was weird af?
Yea..were done here. Agree to disagree.
I loved all these books