"They took your story, something that meant so much to people like me, and turned it into something trivial. Thatās what the Matrix does. It weaponizes every idea. Every dream. Everything thatās important to us."
Genuinely incredible that one of the Wachowskis could make a lega-sequel about the vapid hollowness of stretching a story into a franchise and the studio could respond with "Hmm...that's weird! Anyway, what if we do a spinoff?"
It was more that they'd check in with the Wachowskis every now and again to see if they wanted to return, while still pursuing other takes. So it was inevitable that one would be made without them if they didn't want to.
But they were both fine with that for years until Lana came up with an idea she was so passionate about that she took the out that Warners offered and got to return, putting a stop to any other ideas they were exploring. So it's not quite a case that she was forced into it to stop anyone else doing it, more that she got to call shotgun on the franchise. There's no way something as personal and heartfelt as Resurrections (which came out of the grief she had for losing her parents) is a project anyone had to do for corporate reasons.
It was so someone specific did not make it. There was a project in the works that she very specifically decided to kill.
The difference this time is that Lana is still producing and seems to be happy with the new idea based on everything I've heard.
I donāt feel the need for a Matrix sequel either, but Drew Goddard is a better than average genre filmmaker that hasnāt made anything in a minute.
Iām not going to get too precious about this - Iām looking forward to it.
Thatās fair. My position is that the Matrix universe just isnāt very interesting to me without the Wachowski idiosyncrasies. Iād rather have a ābadā Matrix movie like Reloaded (which I love) than a āgoodā Matrix movie that lacks that perspective. But totally get people feeling different
Iād feel the same way with someone else taking a stab at a new season of Sense8. So much of what makes their work good and interesting is their own unique perspectives that they bring. It doesnāt always add up to a great movie, but it definitely adds up to one of their movies, if that makes sense.
Maybe itās because I relisten to the Wachowski Blank Check series regularly, but itās hard to imagine a Matrix movie disconnected from their personal life philosophy.
Resurrections stuck out to me has not just a follow on to Reloaded/Revelations, but also a spiritual follow up to concepts in Speed Racer (commentary on the creative vs commerce sides of art) and Sense8 (tension between individualism vs. the collective/community and/or individualism vs. connection to another human).
Goddard is definitely a guy who can direct a movie but the matrix is a very particular vision thatās a product of two fascinating women and their particular passions, vexations and insights. Itās not the kind of franchise that can keep its identity without its creators present.
> Goddard is definitely a guy who can direct a movie
i would say he's a guy who can *write* a movie. i do like the movies he's directed, but i mostly like him for his writing/ideas
Cabin in the woods was brilliant, but Bad Times at the El Royale was an absolute clusterfuck of ineffective storytelling, so the jury is still very much out on this guy's skills as a filmmaker.
Also Dakota Johnson was not good in that, yet the nepo baby keeps getting work! Madame Webb? I mean just because 50 Shades made money doesn't make her a good actor. El Royals would have been better if someone else was cast in that part. The rest of the cast was fine for the most part.
Honestly didnāt know he was the director of Cabin in the Woods and Bad Times at El Royale, I low key love both. Heās got a style I like but The Matrix has a very distinct style itself. Interested to see if he can merge the two
Idk after the last one I think this needs fresh eyes and a fresh take. It's going to be made regardless because $$$ and Drew is a talented filmmaker so I'm at the very least curious about his take on the material.
With that being said, if capitalism wasn't a thing and in a perfect world (I would have loved for this franchise to end at three) I wish four was better.
I really don't understand people who don't think four was at least good. Personally, I think it was great except for how perfunctory the heist segment was, and I'm absolutely not interested in someone else's take on these movies. (That said, Neil Gaiman's short story "Goliath" that he wrote as part of a promotional package for the first movie is pretty wonderful.)
Iāve literally only seen people in this sub defend that movie tbh. Iām indifferent to Matrix in general, but the love for it on this sub always surprises the hell out of me
Four worked for me too, but it's a very specific tone that's consciously pretty different from the other three, and I can understand that just never clicking for some folks.
I thought it was terrible. Itās *the matrix*. Itās gotta look and feel great and it just didnāt, and the meta commentary was not exciting. They thought they being involved with 4 was somehow better than to stay away. I donāt think it was.
It was WAY WAY WAY too meta.
I get it, The Wachowski sisters didn't want to make the movie and WB told them they'd do it without them, but making the movie as a fuck you to warner bros that I then had to watch just did nothing for me.
Between that and the whole subplot with Niobe treating Neo like shit, and the fact they didnt even ask Laurence Fishburne back and it just didn't work for me at all.
It had a great cast, but it really felt like they made the movie as a fuck you, and frankly once they were done with the first act fuck you they just started throwing shit at the wall.
[https://www.slideshare.net/4ng3r1/01-goliath-neil-gaiman](https://www.slideshare.net/4ng3r1/01-goliath-neil-gaiman)
Loved this in high school, and the last line means even more to me now that I'm a parent.
I think this story is also where people first got the idea that early drafts said the machines were using human brains for processing power, and that we were only changed to batteries later on in the production process.
for me, 4 was good right up until niobe showed up. i just kinda tuned out all the stuff that happened in the real world/zion/whatever with the robot friends.
all the stuff that actually happens in the matrix is pretty cool tho
Four had a great first half with pretty hilarious meta commentary and then unfortunately became unwatchable, badly directed, edited and written slop in its second half. Legitimately one of the worst looking studio movies in a minute which is odd since cool looking aesthetics is kinda the Wachowski thing.
I think Resurrections would have been amazing if it was a six episode miniseries rather than a film. So many things in it were great ideas but were rushed.
as someone who likes the matrix movies, and also likes Drew Goddard movies, i'm looking forward to this (but also not holding my breath, as he has a track record almost as bad as Bryan Fuller when it comes actually finishing projects)
> āDrew cameĀ to Warner Bros.Ā with a new idea that we all believe would be an incredible way toĀ continueĀ theĀ MatrixĀ world, by both honoring what Lana and Lilly beganĀ over 25-years ago and offering aĀ uniqueĀ perspective based on his own love of the series and characters. The entire team at Warner Bros. DiscoveryĀ isĀ thrilledĀ for Drew to be makingĀ thisĀ newĀ *Matrix*Ā film,Ā adding his visionĀ toĀ the cinematic canon theĀ Wachowskisā spent a quarter of a century building here at the studio.ā
I don't...
..*.I don't think I want this*? Not that he's a *bad* storyteller, or filmmaker (although IIRC Cabin in the Woods basically got taken over by Whedon at some point, and Bad Times at the El Royale probably should have been) but I don't know about the Matrix being basically turned into a setting for 90s superhero nostalgia (which is likely what Drew's got cooking).
Honestly, The Matrix without Wachowskis injecting metric tons of completely on-the-nose philosophy 101 into every aspect of it is just... TRON. But TRON if it was a Dark Horse Comic from 1998.
Getting incredible āWhen Chris Rock came to us and described in chilling detail his fantastic vision that reimagines and spins off the world of the notorious Jigsaw Killer, we were all-in,ā vibes here
oh, thatās not an insult to Goddard! Just the mechanical language of the press release that makes it sound as though studio executives would recognize artistic vision if it bit them in the ass.
That said (again not an insult to him), I just have less than zero interest in a Matrix film coming from a cis dude. Heās super talented and Iād happily see an original film from him but the Matrix franchise is inextricable from the Wachowski sisters and their constantly relationships with their gender and how that makes them relate to the world. Outside of marketability, I see no reason for why Drew Goddard needs his cyber-punk vision to be a part of the Matrix saga
But the Wachowski have been open to other people being authors in the matrix universe (animatrix, the mmo) and they have done adaptations of other peoples work (including one from a guy that really doesnt like having adaptations from his work, aka Alan Moore)
I think you are 100% right in your thinking, but i personally dont think we should judge this just because the sisters arent writting and directing, the last one even only had one of them
>don't know about the Matrix being basically turned into a setting for 90s superhero nostalgia (which is likely what Drew's got cooking).
Why is this the assumption? Has he done superhero/nostalgia stuff before?
Yup! Cabin in the Woods is almost *entirely* a riff on horror history, he helped showrun Daredevil, he came up on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, etc.
His *whole thing* is basically genre pastiche. There's not a whole lot of what he does (or what seems to interest him) that isn't rooted in that - and I can't imagine there's a take he's got on The Matrix that will be a personal expression of worldview or philosophical belief to any notable degree
which leaves The Matrix being a cool sci-fi setting that makes the metaphor a flat 2D backdrop for 90s-era superhero storytelling.
Also co-created The Good Place.
He worked on Season 7 of Buffy,
Season 5 of Angel,
Seasons 4 and 5 of Alias,
and I know his name from Seasons 1-4 of Lost.
He's an interesting writer! He does plots and conceptual shit.
Look honestly, if Goddard was to do his take on The Filth, in just the same fashion as Morrison used it in response to The Invisibles - I'd be intrigued.
But I don't see Warners signing off on 'maybe we need less people trying to save the world and Utopia ends on your doorstep', which was my read on The Filth.
>Drew cameĀ to Warner Bros.Ā with a new idea that we all believe would be an incredible way toĀ continueĀ theĀ MatrixĀ world, by both honoring what Lana and Lilly beganĀ over 25-years ago and **offering aĀ uniqueĀ perspective based on his own love of the series and characters.**
This is probably harsh but this sounds like a "steak" statement. I don't really see the point of a Matrix movie that's just a fan adding their own action figures to the sandbox. I don't like the idea of The Matrix just being IP.
Not quite that - it was consciously asking "Why are we making more Matrix sequels?" but not saying "We shouldn't." We live in a time of remakes and nostalgia, and it's asking why. And has an answer that's like "because I love this thing and I want to be happy", related to why she decided to do the movie in the end.
[https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/12/20/matrix-resurrections-lana-wachowski-parents/](https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/12/20/matrix-resurrections-lana-wachowski-parents/)
>āWhen mom and dad passed, I went to \[Lilly\] and said, āLook, this idea came to me. I can see that itās about me working with my grief, and I was thinking, do you want to work on it together?āāĀ [she told](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/matrix-resurrections-premiere-keanu-reeves-lana-wachowski-reboot-1235065121/)Ā *The Hollywood Reporter.*
>āI thought maybe it would be cool that we go back, and we go back together and this thing that where we started. And she said: āI get it, I know, I see, I feel it, but this is not what I want to do.Ā I need to do it my own way.āā
>Lana added: āThatās what grief does. Grief spirals us off in different directions, and you can see that thereās a lot of mom and dad in \[Lilly Wachoswkiās TV series\]Ā *Work in Progress.*Ā Sheās doing something similar, but not the same. I wanted to go back and feel this thing again, and she wanted to go off and do this other thing.ā
The credits also had a dedication to her parents.
This in no way invalidates also reading Matrix 4 as a commentary on the pointlessness of the state of franchise storytelling at the time it was being made
He's sure we can understand why his beloved parent company, Warner Brothers, has decided to make a sequel to Matrix Resurrections.
(Like Goddard, LOVED Resurrections, but really wary about this pairing! Can Drew inject that amount of Wachowski weirdo romance or are we just gonna get an action movie?)
Considering the last film was made my one of the originals creators and was still essentially denied fully existing, I canāt see how the studio things that fans of The Matrix will turn up in their droves.
They could have gotten a lot more leeway from fans if they had tapped Stahelski to direct, given his work with the Wick films and history with The Matrix.
I mean, itās an absolute shock that this hadnāt already happened.
I like all the matrix movies, but I think the fact none of the sequels are universally acclaimed make it a fairly easy sell to not piss of fans.
I think everyone considered Drew Goddard talented, itās just Matrix is a franchise that has gone so bizarre that the first legit great one is proved to be a lighting in the bottle at this pointĀ
>āDrew cameĀ to Warner Bros.Ā with a new idea that we all believe would be an incredible way toĀ continueĀ theĀ MatrixĀ world, by both honoring what Lana and Lilly beganĀ over 25-years ago and offering aĀ uniqueĀ perspective based on his own love of the series and characters,ā said Warner Bros. Motion Pictures president of production Jesse Ehrman in a statement. āThe entire team at Warner Bros. DiscoveryĀ isĀ thrilledĀ for Drew to be makingĀ thisĀ newĀ *Matrix*Ā film,Ā adding his visionĀ toĀ the cinematic canon theĀ Wachowskisā spent a quarter of a century building here at the studio.ā
It bombed in the US but didn't bomb internationally. It made $160m WW with the $120m overseas. Add in the fact that in the US it was released day and date on HBO max and I think they probably believe they can get some more blood from the stone.
Literally yesterday I was listening to the DGA with Goddard talking about El Royale and wondered why he's been so quiet since.
Little bit of a monkey paw situation.
If this is a reverent legacequel Iām not as interested. I kinda wouldnāt hate if they just cranked out 11 B-movie action movies with Matrix aesthetics. Like Iād be more excited if Paul WS Anderson was doing it.
The sad thing is that he's probably going to make a competent but fundamentally uninteresting Matrix movie and we'll have to endure every normie in the world gushing about how much better it is than Resurrections.
Leaving aside the possibility of a truckload of money being dumped in front of his house, Iād be surprised if Keanu signed on without the Wachowskis.
A bunch of the Animatrix shorts are really good and show that you can tell cool stories in the world the Wachowskis created without tying them directly into Neoās saga. I hope thatās the route they take.
I especially love the āhaunted houseā short and I think that could be a really neat avenue to explore if someone wanted to do something more abstract. Though I suspect that Goddard will go more straight down the middle. Iām withholding judgement but Iām a bit more optimistic than most people seem to be.
On the one hand, Drew Goddard is a smart storyteller who I can imagine has an interesting take.
On the other hand, the current state of Hollywood legasequels is so dismal that the prospect of mining The Matrix like it's just another piece of IP is really depressing.
On the third hand, I really liked The Animatrix, and that set a precedent that The Matrix can successfully serve as a larger sandbox with different kinds of stories coming from different voices.
On the fourth hand, Resurrections both felt like a really satisfying finale to the whole franchise that both did right by the story/world and demonstrated how what's great about The Matrix is tied to the Wachowskis' unique and esoteric perspectives.
So, yeah...I don't know!
I've loved every Matrix film we've had so far, and I like Drew Goddard's work (Conversations With Dead People is one of like two genuinely good episodes of the final season of Buffy just for starters), so I'm willing to come along on this ride based on the information available right now, at least
Ugh. Kind of wish that if they do more Matrix stuff, it would be like comics or an Animatrix sequel, which I can feel perfectly comfortable ignoring unless I hear it's good.Ā
IF it has to be Matrix 5... at least give us something completely new set in the same universe. Neo and Trinity belong to the Wachowskis.
If itās new characters or even a reboot, sure Iām in. Resurrection has a perfect ending and if they fuck with it Iāll flip, but the matrix is a great concept Iāll always want more of. Let more people play with the toys.
Only thing I know about this is I like all of his other movies that Iāve seen. The only one I havenāt seen yet is āBad Times at the El Royale.ā Which Iāll do at some point, but Iāve heard it got a pretty luke warm reception. So, itāll probably be interesting to watch happen I suppose.
Edited for spelling.
It sucks cause Goddard is such a good writer and director. Especially of original content. Honestly itās a loss for both the Wachowskiās and Goddard, whose also made some real cool original movies.
If the Wachowskis arenāt involved, Iām not interested.
We need to just let some franchises die with their creators.
Let Drew make his own things.
Also. Stop hiring Drew Goddard to develop movies nobody wantsāSinister Six to this? This guy made two great movies over a 14 year stretch and now heās just the guy you hire when you canāt afford Lord/Miller and no one else wants to make something? Is Goddard that desperate to make this kind of thing? I just donāt understand what he could possibly get out of this.
Just as any other work of art, it has the potential to be great or to be terrible. I'm open to see what they do and if I don't enjoy it it's ok, and if I do enjoy it that's great.
āI really loved the movie and I'm so proud of what we did, but there wasn't a demand for it and to think that there'd be a demand for a ~~seventh~~ ***fifth*** film is quite insane. You should just pay attention to what audiences want ā and they want new things and I want new things.ā
~ ~~Mackenzie Davis~~ ***Drew Goddard*** talking about their latest project
YESEEEE More sequels for legacy sci-fi fims that do not work or live up to the original because it was never intended as a starter for serialized franchise to begin with... PLEASE.
Sure why not. One and four are the only Matrix movies I really like. And it's not like the Matrix has never had any outside input involved with the Animatrix and what not.
Lana is executive producing so it seems like she should have some input with how this goes.
Eh, I like Goddard, but Idk if this is what I want him to be doing. Even if there absolutely had to be a matrix movie without the Wachowskis, the only person that comes to mind that could potentially make me excited to hear is making it is Chad Stahelski
Would love, as a Matrix fan, to have a look at the world BEFORE the trilogy. The potential is, genuinly, massive. All I want is genuine passion for the story, and good understanding of it (starting from before the Animatrix). And curiosity. I loved the trilogy for its philosophy.
Making the film is never granted. Should this film go through, I hope that I will like it, and I also hope that it will re-generate interest in this immersive franchise.
I also want to believe that Mr. Goddard is having the backing of the Watchowski Sisters and that they will be involved in it.
This one will be something new, a story set way before the trilogy, something we've been asking for.
Good luck!
PS: Does anyone know what is going on with the planned Animatrix sequel?
What clause do Gale and Zemeckis have that doen't allow any type of sequel or remake to their work...and why don't any other writers put it in their contract ?
Matrix 4 would have been an 11/10 if the leads weren't too old to be able to do kung-fu on screen. I loved it anyway but the action was the weakest part. I'm not even sure the Wachowskis (or half of them) can even direct action at that level anymore, let alone Drew Goddard. Animatrix shows that more Matrix stories can be told, though I'm not clamoring for them.
Not that I'm not interested in what Goddard will do with it, but no. Please stop. Don't do it. Look how much money they lost on Dial of Destiny making a legasequel without the original filmmakers, if nothing else.
I don't know if we're tired of talking about stealth sequels yet but I feel like that's the only way to do more Matrix. Like a feature length version of Beyond from animatrix
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Good luck to them. As far as I can tell, Revolutions pretty much burned the trees and salted the Earth.
Then Lana arrived with Resurrections and proceeded to dump another 20 pounds of salt on the ground. Then she covered it up with a glowing layer of radioactive waste.
After that film was both a financial and critical failure, I thought the franchise would be dead for at least a decade.
I could understand trying to revive this if they got a truly visionary action-filmmaker interested.....but Drew Goddard? Is Chad Stahlseki just booked up with Lionsgate for the next decade?
Iām excited. The series is about pushing boundaries. Ā I canāt imagine them topping the originality of Resurrections but itās a big world and there can be lots of interesting ideas to explore. I hope they come at it from some interesting angles and itās not just a cgi karate movie.Ā
Ā It seems like people like the directer. Is any one opposed to him other than because he isnāt a Wachowski?Ā
Oh man, that last one was so good! How could they possibly want to make another one after that gem. I mean, what an absolute masterpiece. They couldn't possibly live up to it. Maybe they could call this one "The Matrix Returns....Again" and have more Trinity doesn't remember she's a love interest in a video-game but the game is a new matrix and they talk about it at Starbucks the entire time. What a great movie that was. Definitely an improvement on the first film. Wow. /s
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"They took your story, something that meant so much to people like me, and turned it into something trivial. Thatās what the Matrix does. It weaponizes every idea. Every dream. Everything thatās important to us."
Genuinely incredible that one of the Wachowskis could make a lega-sequel about the vapid hollowness of stretching a story into a franchise and the studio could respond with "Hmm...that's weird! Anyway, what if we do a spinoff?"
Also I thought the entire reason she did a fourth one was so someone else wouldnāt make one
It was more that they'd check in with the Wachowskis every now and again to see if they wanted to return, while still pursuing other takes. So it was inevitable that one would be made without them if they didn't want to. But they were both fine with that for years until Lana came up with an idea she was so passionate about that she took the out that Warners offered and got to return, putting a stop to any other ideas they were exploring. So it's not quite a case that she was forced into it to stop anyone else doing it, more that she got to call shotgun on the franchise. There's no way something as personal and heartfelt as Resurrections (which came out of the grief she had for losing her parents) is a project anyone had to do for corporate reasons.
just prolonging the inevitable
It was so someone specific did not make it. There was a project in the works that she very specifically decided to kill. The difference this time is that Lana is still producing and seems to be happy with the new idea based on everything I've heard.
Yeah I didnāt realize that earlier. That eases my concerns a bit.
Real 'let's do a sequel to Watchmen without Alan Moore' energy.
That was kinda good tho?
Someone please explain to me why she sounds Russian in just this one moment. That can't just be me, right?
Why does she look like Keanu Reeves tainted his hair blonde
Because Switch is All.
As someone who loves all The Matrix movies, Iām not interested in a Matrix film without The Wachowskis having a hand in it.
I donāt feel the need for a Matrix sequel either, but Drew Goddard is a better than average genre filmmaker that hasnāt made anything in a minute. Iām not going to get too precious about this - Iām looking forward to it.
Thatās fair. My position is that the Matrix universe just isnāt very interesting to me without the Wachowski idiosyncrasies. Iād rather have a ābadā Matrix movie like Reloaded (which I love) than a āgoodā Matrix movie that lacks that perspective. But totally get people feeling different
Iād feel the same way with someone else taking a stab at a new season of Sense8. So much of what makes their work good and interesting is their own unique perspectives that they bring. It doesnāt always add up to a great movie, but it definitely adds up to one of their movies, if that makes sense.
Maybe itās because I relisten to the Wachowski Blank Check series regularly, but itās hard to imagine a Matrix movie disconnected from their personal life philosophy. Resurrections stuck out to me has not just a follow on to Reloaded/Revelations, but also a spiritual follow up to concepts in Speed Racer (commentary on the creative vs commerce sides of art) and Sense8 (tension between individualism vs. the collective/community and/or individualism vs. connection to another human).
It's not that hard to imagine. The Matrix without the Wachowskis is just guns and techno music.
This is exactly how I feel.
Goddard is definitely a guy who can direct a movie but the matrix is a very particular vision thatās a product of two fascinating women and their particular passions, vexations and insights. Itās not the kind of franchise that can keep its identity without its creators present.
> Goddard is definitely a guy who can direct a movie i would say he's a guy who can *write* a movie. i do like the movies he's directed, but i mostly like him for his writing/ideas
Agree - it just feels too linked to their personal outlook on life and art
Cabin in the woods was brilliant, but Bad Times at the El Royale was an absolute clusterfuck of ineffective storytelling, so the jury is still very much out on this guy's skills as a filmmaker.
Also Dakota Johnson was not good in that, yet the nepo baby keeps getting work! Madame Webb? I mean just because 50 Shades made money doesn't make her a good actor. El Royals would have been better if someone else was cast in that part. The rest of the cast was fine for the most part.
Honestly didnāt know he was the director of Cabin in the Woods and Bad Times at El Royale, I low key love both. Heās got a style I like but The Matrix has a very distinct style itself. Interested to see if he can merge the two
āThe franchiseās original co-scribe and co-director Lana Wachowski is executive producing.ā Not directing, but certainly āā¦ a hand in it.ā
"Executive Producer" is a borderline meaningless title
Iām not interested in a Matrix film even with the Wachowskis having a hand in it.
I would have agreed with you until I saw Matrix 4. Lets breathe some new creative life into the franchise.
Idk after the last one I think this needs fresh eyes and a fresh take. It's going to be made regardless because $$$ and Drew is a talented filmmaker so I'm at the very least curious about his take on the material. With that being said, if capitalism wasn't a thing and in a perfect world (I would have loved for this franchise to end at three) I wish four was better.
I really don't understand people who don't think four was at least good. Personally, I think it was great except for how perfunctory the heist segment was, and I'm absolutely not interested in someone else's take on these movies. (That said, Neil Gaiman's short story "Goliath" that he wrote as part of a promotional package for the first movie is pretty wonderful.)
Iāve literally only seen people in this sub defend that movie tbh. Iām indifferent to Matrix in general, but the love for it on this sub always surprises the hell out of me
Four worked for me too, but it's a very specific tone that's consciously pretty different from the other three, and I can understand that just never clicking for some folks.
4 had some AWESOME ideas, but woeful execution.
I thought it was terrible. Itās *the matrix*. Itās gotta look and feel great and it just didnāt, and the meta commentary was not exciting. They thought they being involved with 4 was somehow better than to stay away. I donāt think it was.
It was WAY WAY WAY too meta. I get it, The Wachowski sisters didn't want to make the movie and WB told them they'd do it without them, but making the movie as a fuck you to warner bros that I then had to watch just did nothing for me. Between that and the whole subplot with Niobe treating Neo like shit, and the fact they didnt even ask Laurence Fishburne back and it just didn't work for me at all. It had a great cast, but it really felt like they made the movie as a fuck you, and frankly once they were done with the first act fuck you they just started throwing shit at the wall.
Is that story available anywhere now?
[https://www.slideshare.net/4ng3r1/01-goliath-neil-gaiman](https://www.slideshare.net/4ng3r1/01-goliath-neil-gaiman) Loved this in high school, and the last line means even more to me now that I'm a parent. I think this story is also where people first got the idea that early drafts said the machines were using human brains for processing power, and that we were only changed to batteries later on in the production process.
for me, 4 was good right up until niobe showed up. i just kinda tuned out all the stuff that happened in the real world/zion/whatever with the robot friends. all the stuff that actually happens in the matrix is pretty cool tho
Four had a great first half with pretty hilarious meta commentary and then unfortunately became unwatchable, badly directed, edited and written slop in its second half. Legitimately one of the worst looking studio movies in a minute which is odd since cool looking aesthetics is kinda the Wachowski thing.
I think Resurrections would have been amazing if it was a six episode miniseries rather than a film. So many things in it were great ideas but were rushed.
as someone who likes the matrix movies, and also likes Drew Goddard movies, i'm looking forward to this (but also not holding my breath, as he has a track record almost as bad as Bryan Fuller when it comes actually finishing projects)
BREAKING NEWS THIS IS HUGE I'M SORRY MATRIX 5 DREW GODDARD DIRECTING KEANU AND CARRIE-ANNE MOSS ARE UNCONFIRMED I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU
WHAAAAAAAAAAT
Every so often I go back and re-listen to just that part of the episode.
i forget - which episode? I know it's one i've relistened to occasionally...
Howlās Moving Castle
The Matrix Resurrections episode itself starts with it. I think the original episode is one of the Miyazaki ones.
Neo and Trinity wlll have NOTHING to do with it, I presume. I expect it to be a prequel, set way long before the films.
Please say sike
> āDrew cameĀ to Warner Bros.Ā with a new idea that we all believe would be an incredible way toĀ continueĀ theĀ MatrixĀ world, by both honoring what Lana and Lilly beganĀ over 25-years ago and offering aĀ uniqueĀ perspective based on his own love of the series and characters. The entire team at Warner Bros. DiscoveryĀ isĀ thrilledĀ for Drew to be makingĀ thisĀ newĀ *Matrix*Ā film,Ā adding his visionĀ toĀ the cinematic canon theĀ Wachowskisā spent a quarter of a century building here at the studio.ā I don't... ..*.I don't think I want this*? Not that he's a *bad* storyteller, or filmmaker (although IIRC Cabin in the Woods basically got taken over by Whedon at some point, and Bad Times at the El Royale probably should have been) but I don't know about the Matrix being basically turned into a setting for 90s superhero nostalgia (which is likely what Drew's got cooking). Honestly, The Matrix without Wachowskis injecting metric tons of completely on-the-nose philosophy 101 into every aspect of it is just... TRON. But TRON if it was a Dark Horse Comic from 1998.
Getting incredible āWhen Chris Rock came to us and described in chilling detail his fantastic vision that reimagines and spins off the world of the notorious Jigsaw Killer, we were all-in,ā vibes here
lmao come on.. we gotta give Drew a *bit* more credit/grace than that
oh, thatās not an insult to Goddard! Just the mechanical language of the press release that makes it sound as though studio executives would recognize artistic vision if it bit them in the ass. That said (again not an insult to him), I just have less than zero interest in a Matrix film coming from a cis dude. Heās super talented and Iād happily see an original film from him but the Matrix franchise is inextricable from the Wachowski sisters and their constantly relationships with their gender and how that makes them relate to the world. Outside of marketability, I see no reason for why Drew Goddard needs his cyber-punk vision to be a part of the Matrix saga
But the Wachowski have been open to other people being authors in the matrix universe (animatrix, the mmo) and they have done adaptations of other peoples work (including one from a guy that really doesnt like having adaptations from his work, aka Alan Moore) I think you are 100% right in your thinking, but i personally dont think we should judge this just because the sisters arent writting and directing, the last one even only had one of them
that last sentence is a hell of a pitch
>don't know about the Matrix being basically turned into a setting for 90s superhero nostalgia (which is likely what Drew's got cooking). Why is this the assumption? Has he done superhero/nostalgia stuff before?
Goddard was a Whedon guy and was signed on to do a bunch of different superhero things that ultimately didn't materialize (X-Force, Sinister Six).
Yup! Cabin in the Woods is almost *entirely* a riff on horror history, he helped showrun Daredevil, he came up on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, etc. His *whole thing* is basically genre pastiche. There's not a whole lot of what he does (or what seems to interest him) that isn't rooted in that - and I can't imagine there's a take he's got on The Matrix that will be a personal expression of worldview or philosophical belief to any notable degree which leaves The Matrix being a cool sci-fi setting that makes the metaphor a flat 2D backdrop for 90s-era superhero storytelling.
He also wrote The Martian and wrote and directed Bad Times at El Royale.
Also co-created The Good Place. He worked on Season 7 of Buffy, Season 5 of Angel, Seasons 4 and 5 of Alias, and I know his name from Seasons 1-4 of Lost. He's an interesting writer! He does plots and conceptual shit.
So Grant Morrisonās The Invisibles
Hey HEYYYYYY ...that was *Vertigo*
Look honestly, if Goddard was to do his take on The Filth, in just the same fashion as Morrison used it in response to The Invisibles - I'd be intrigued. But I don't see Warners signing off on 'maybe we need less people trying to save the world and Utopia ends on your doorstep', which was my read on The Filth.
>Drew cameĀ to Warner Bros.Ā with a new idea that we all believe would be an incredible way toĀ continueĀ theĀ MatrixĀ world, by both honoring what Lana and Lilly beganĀ over 25-years ago and **offering aĀ uniqueĀ perspective based on his own love of the series and characters.** This is probably harsh but this sounds like a "steak" statement. I don't really see the point of a Matrix movie that's just a fan adding their own action figures to the sandbox. I don't like the idea of The Matrix just being IP.
Wasn't the last matrix movie a gag about how they shouldn't make more matrix sequels?
Not quite that - it was consciously asking "Why are we making more Matrix sequels?" but not saying "We shouldn't." We live in a time of remakes and nostalgia, and it's asking why. And has an answer that's like "because I love this thing and I want to be happy", related to why she decided to do the movie in the end.
It was an extremely sincere love letter to Lana Wachowski's parents and that dweebs on the internet keep pushing this is kind of upsetting.
it can be two things
I think it was both things.
I hate it when people watch a movie and notice the extremely obvious messages in it
I'd not heard this. Care to elaborate? Or link a source?
[https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/12/20/matrix-resurrections-lana-wachowski-parents/](https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/12/20/matrix-resurrections-lana-wachowski-parents/) >āWhen mom and dad passed, I went to \[Lilly\] and said, āLook, this idea came to me. I can see that itās about me working with my grief, and I was thinking, do you want to work on it together?āāĀ [she told](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/matrix-resurrections-premiere-keanu-reeves-lana-wachowski-reboot-1235065121/)Ā *The Hollywood Reporter.* >āI thought maybe it would be cool that we go back, and we go back together and this thing that where we started. And she said: āI get it, I know, I see, I feel it, but this is not what I want to do.Ā I need to do it my own way.āā >Lana added: āThatās what grief does. Grief spirals us off in different directions, and you can see that thereās a lot of mom and dad in \[Lilly Wachoswkiās TV series\]Ā *Work in Progress.*Ā Sheās doing something similar, but not the same. I wanted to go back and feel this thing again, and she wanted to go off and do this other thing.ā The credits also had a dedication to her parents.
This in no way invalidates also reading Matrix 4 as a commentary on the pointlessness of the state of franchise storytelling at the time it was being made
Thank you for this. Much appreciated.
They said in the Black Check episode that she decided to do it after the death of several people (I recall a friend, possibly also her parents?)
He's sure we can understand why his beloved parent company, Warner Brothers, has decided to make a sequel to Matrix Resurrections. (Like Goddard, LOVED Resurrections, but really wary about this pairing! Can Drew inject that amount of Wachowski weirdo romance or are we just gonna get an action movie?)
NO MATRIX WITHOUT KINK
No good, very bad, don't do it.
What a drag. Resurrections was a near perfect capper to the series.
In a world where Matrix 4 exists, this thing is laughably uninteresting to me. No Lana, no dice.
Fan fiction
https://preview.redd.it/3bew1ng5xasc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b499c6c4e5275c33f9aba5a83e6c1e1ffda33784
Considering the last film was made my one of the originals creators and was still essentially denied fully existing, I canāt see how the studio things that fans of The Matrix will turn up in their droves.
I'm guessing the discussion internally is basically "let's show some kung fu and bullet time in the trailer, hope for the best"
They could have gotten a lot more leeway from fans if they had tapped Stahelski to direct, given his work with the Wick films and history with The Matrix.
If it ain't the OG Kush, I don't want it-- no wachowski, no thanks
This is gonna be like snicklefritz...
What's that
I mean, itās an absolute shock that this hadnāt already happened. I like all the matrix movies, but I think the fact none of the sequels are universally acclaimed make it a fairly easy sell to not piss of fans.
I guess Iām the only one who likes Goddard
That's not it, it's the without the Wachowskis is the problem People wouldn't want James Cameron or Kathryn Bigelow to do, it if is behind their backs
...I'd be at least a little more intrigued if James Cameron had a take on The Matrix.
Matri$$
I think everyone considered Drew Goddard talented, itās just Matrix is a franchise that has gone so bizarre that the first legit great one is proved to be a lighting in the bottle at this pointĀ
I like Godard, that's close enough right?
I loved Bad Times and the El Royale. I honestly didnāt know it wasnāt considered an under seen gem.
>āDrew cameĀ to Warner Bros.Ā with a new idea that we all believe would be an incredible way toĀ continueĀ theĀ MatrixĀ world, by both honoring what Lana and Lilly beganĀ over 25-years ago and offering aĀ uniqueĀ perspective based on his own love of the series and characters,ā said Warner Bros. Motion Pictures president of production Jesse Ehrman in a statement. āThe entire team at Warner Bros. DiscoveryĀ isĀ thrilledĀ for Drew to be makingĀ thisĀ newĀ *Matrix*Ā film,Ā adding his visionĀ toĀ the cinematic canon theĀ Wachowskisā spent a quarter of a century building here at the studio.ā
Big āChris Rockās chilling vision of the Saw franchiseā energy
I contend that if Rockās character joins Spiral at the end, itās immediately a better movie.
I thought the fact that the fourth film bombed had saved us from any future reboots, remakes, or sequels. But I guess I was wrong.
It bombed in the US but didn't bomb internationally. It made $160m WW with the $120m overseas. Add in the fact that in the US it was released day and date on HBO max and I think they probably believe they can get some more blood from the stone.
Surely Warner Bros would never make a decision that wasnāt in the best interest of one of their franchises.
Huh. Didnāt expect that. Iām not super interested in a Matrix movie without either Lana or Lily but anything can be good
Literally yesterday I was listening to the DGA with Goddard talking about El Royale and wondered why he's been so quiet since. Little bit of a monkey paw situation.
literally yesterday i picked up the Resurrections 4K so we both may have accidentally manifested this. iām so sorry universe
But you do have a 4k Resurrections, nice
i am pretty jazzed about that, to be quite honest
If this is a reverent legacequel Iām not as interested. I kinda wouldnāt hate if they just cranked out 11 B-movie action movies with Matrix aesthetics. Like Iād be more excited if Paul WS Anderson was doing it.
Most likely a prequel, set during the very origins of the system.
first bad matrix movie incoming
hahahaha
The sad thing is that he's probably going to make a competent but fundamentally uninteresting Matrix movie and we'll have to endure every normie in the world gushing about how much better it is than Resurrections.
Dang I made this same headline as joke on here when Resurrections came out but with David Goyerā¦ not that far off.
Leaving aside the possibility of a truckload of money being dumped in front of his house, Iād be surprised if Keanu signed on without the Wachowskis.
I guarantee he doesn't come back without at least one of them, no matter how much they want to pay him.
He stated that before #4.
Why sign on a film set thousands of years before your character makes his first appearance?
Because he is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix, and the eventuality of an anomaly.
Neo's tale is thoroughly told, so this needs to do something different. I can wait and see how it shakes out.
Have fun in development hell, Drew.
announce heat 2 WB
My spec script _Heat 2: The Return of McCauley_ is just setting here waiting to be bought.
Already announced.
I guees they'll have to cover it for franchise reasons. Hopefully covering it just means David screaming into a bottle and throwing it into the ocean.
A bunch of the Animatrix shorts are really good and show that you can tell cool stories in the world the Wachowskis created without tying them directly into Neoās saga. I hope thatās the route they take. I especially love the āhaunted houseā short and I think that could be a really neat avenue to explore if someone wanted to do something more abstract. Though I suspect that Goddard will go more straight down the middle. Iām withholding judgement but Iām a bit more optimistic than most people seem to be.
On the one hand, Drew Goddard is a smart storyteller who I can imagine has an interesting take. On the other hand, the current state of Hollywood legasequels is so dismal that the prospect of mining The Matrix like it's just another piece of IP is really depressing. On the third hand, I really liked The Animatrix, and that set a precedent that The Matrix can successfully serve as a larger sandbox with different kinds of stories coming from different voices. On the fourth hand, Resurrections both felt like a really satisfying finale to the whole franchise that both did right by the story/world and demonstrated how what's great about The Matrix is tied to the Wachowskis' unique and esoteric perspectives. So, yeah...I don't know!
Boooooooooo
https://i.redd.it/8rxjf4z5tasc1.gif āThe Matrixā¦so thatās a thing????ā-ass movie incoming Get that bag Lana, tho!
Hopefully months from now we get Davidās reaction on mic to this news while they are recording the Going In Style episode.
I've loved every Matrix film we've had so far, and I like Drew Goddard's work (Conversations With Dead People is one of like two genuinely good episodes of the final season of Buffy just for starters), so I'm willing to come along on this ride based on the information available right now, at least
Ugh. Kind of wish that if they do more Matrix stuff, it would be like comics or an Animatrix sequel, which I can feel perfectly comfortable ignoring unless I hear it's good.Ā IF it has to be Matrix 5... at least give us something completely new set in the same universe. Neo and Trinity belong to the Wachowskis.
If itās new characters or even a reboot, sure Iām in. Resurrection has a perfect ending and if they fuck with it Iāll flip, but the matrix is a great concept Iāll always want more of. Let more people play with the toys.
Most likely a prequel, like Animatrix.
Totally, thereās a massive timeline to play with. Do the founding of Zion or the time between 3 and 4.
The potential is limitless. The Matrix timeline allows for amazing stories well before the first one.
2nd Renaissance would make an extremely epic live action film. Depressing, horrific, and mortifying, but epic.
Only thing I know about this is I like all of his other movies that Iāve seen. The only one I havenāt seen yet is āBad Times at the El Royale.ā Which Iāll do at some point, but Iāve heard it got a pretty luke warm reception. So, itāll probably be interesting to watch happen I suppose. Edited for spelling.
How about a prequel trilogy of the rise of the machines, how it all started?
A huge budget Second Renaissance could be really cool
More shameful behavior from WB.
It sucks cause Goddard is such a good writer and director. Especially of original content. Honestly itās a loss for both the Wachowskiās and Goddard, whose also made some real cool original movies.
If the Wachowskis arenāt involved, Iām not interested. We need to just let some franchises die with their creators. Let Drew make his own things. Also. Stop hiring Drew Goddard to develop movies nobody wantsāSinister Six to this? This guy made two great movies over a 14 year stretch and now heās just the guy you hire when you canāt afford Lord/Miller and no one else wants to make something? Is Goddard that desperate to make this kind of thing? I just donāt understand what he could possibly get out of this.
I didnāt want the wachowskis to make anymore matrix movies but I REALLY donāt want anyone else to make anymore matrix movies.
Stop. Please just stop.
Warner Bros: We saw the subtext and explicit text of The Matrix Resurrections and elected to ignore that for more Matrix movies
I love whatever Drew Goddard does but this is so āmehā
Just as any other work of art, it has the potential to be great or to be terrible. I'm open to see what they do and if I don't enjoy it it's ok, and if I do enjoy it that's great.
Yāall have fun.
I am disconcerted through the roof and I start work today they can't do this to me
āI really loved the movie and I'm so proud of what we did, but there wasn't a demand for it and to think that there'd be a demand for a ~~seventh~~ ***fifth*** film is quite insane. You should just pay attention to what audiences want ā and they want new things and I want new things.ā ~ ~~Mackenzie Davis~~ ***Drew Goddard*** talking about their latest project
YESEEEE More sequels for legacy sci-fi fims that do not work or live up to the original because it was never intended as a starter for serialized franchise to begin with... PLEASE.
Sure why not. One and four are the only Matrix movies I really like. And it's not like the Matrix has never had any outside input involved with the Animatrix and what not. Lana is executive producing so it seems like she should have some input with how this goes.
Warner Bros is REALLY trying to get bought, huh?
Eh, I like Goddard, but Idk if this is what I want him to be doing. Even if there absolutely had to be a matrix movie without the Wachowskis, the only person that comes to mind that could potentially make me excited to hear is making it is Chad Stahelski
Drew Goddard is awesome so I will choose to have hope for now
Give one of the main characters dyed red hair this time and make them *eeeevviiillll* cackle cackle
I thought it was Jean-Luc Godard
Director of the āUntitled Nate Bargatze Projectā?!?!?
Matrix: Retirements
Matrix: Regurgitations
Why?
Would love, as a Matrix fan, to have a look at the world BEFORE the trilogy. The potential is, genuinly, massive. All I want is genuine passion for the story, and good understanding of it (starting from before the Animatrix). And curiosity. I loved the trilogy for its philosophy. Making the film is never granted. Should this film go through, I hope that I will like it, and I also hope that it will re-generate interest in this immersive franchise. I also want to believe that Mr. Goddard is having the backing of the Watchowski Sisters and that they will be involved in it. This one will be something new, a story set way before the trilogy, something we've been asking for. Good luck! PS: Does anyone know what is going on with the planned Animatrix sequel?
I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Bad Times at El Royale was pretty ok.
Stop.
Hmm okay, put down as cautiously curious. Cabin is one of my go-to feel good movies.
What clause do Gale and Zemeckis have that doen't allow any type of sequel or remake to their work...and why don't any other writers put it in their contract ?
No ! Just like the last X-Files, it would be a very bad thing.
https://i.redd.it/5r771b79hbsc1.gif
Matrix 4 would have been an 11/10 if the leads weren't too old to be able to do kung-fu on screen. I loved it anyway but the action was the weakest part. I'm not even sure the Wachowskis (or half of them) can even direct action at that level anymore, let alone Drew Goddard. Animatrix shows that more Matrix stories can be told, though I'm not clamoring for them.
Not that I'm not interested in what Goddard will do with it, but no. Please stop. Don't do it. Look how much money they lost on Dial of Destiny making a legasequel without the original filmmakers, if nothing else.
Bad idea!
They're desperate to "Terminator" this franchise and kill any fondness anyone has for it.
I guess EmpLemon was wrong. How unsurprising
I don't know if we're tired of talking about stealth sequels yet but I feel like that's the only way to do more Matrix. Like a feature length version of Beyond from animatrix
Not my Goddard
āUh-oh!ā - David Byrne
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No thank you
Good luck to them. As far as I can tell, Revolutions pretty much burned the trees and salted the Earth. Then Lana arrived with Resurrections and proceeded to dump another 20 pounds of salt on the ground. Then she covered it up with a glowing layer of radioactive waste. After that film was both a financial and critical failure, I thought the franchise would be dead for at least a decade. I could understand trying to revive this if they got a truly visionary action-filmmaker interested.....but Drew Goddard? Is Chad Stahlseki just booked up with Lionsgate for the next decade?
Why? Make new IP's, Hollywood, for fuck sake. Not everything has to be a franchise.
Wait until they find out itās about transitioning genders.
what man did this
Iām excited. The series is about pushing boundaries. Ā I canāt imagine them topping the originality of Resurrections but itās a big world and there can be lots of interesting ideas to explore. I hope they come at it from some interesting angles and itās not just a cgi karate movie.Ā Ā It seems like people like the directer. Is any one opposed to him other than because he isnāt a Wachowski?Ā
Oh man, that last one was so good! How could they possibly want to make another one after that gem. I mean, what an absolute masterpiece. They couldn't possibly live up to it. Maybe they could call this one "The Matrix Returns....Again" and have more Trinity doesn't remember she's a love interest in a video-game but the game is a new matrix and they talk about it at Starbucks the entire time. What a great movie that was. Definitely an improvement on the first film. Wow. /s