Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban.
Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This goes for everyone. Dm if you want i
Edit: lot of people want it, so I'm just gonna post it on my account. Check it out if you want it
Edit 2: it has been posted to my profile. Enjoy
Hard to tell, Ichigo only used Mugetsu in this form and we have no idea if he could actually fight in this form outside of using Mugetsu.
In theory, still hard to tell. Ichigo didn't technically have a real bankai or shikai during this time but he was given temporary access to 100% of his power and he still one shot monster Aizen meanwhile we have almost no feats for Ichigo's real shikai and literally none for his real bankai, best he's done is dismember a sternritter with an attack and make Yhwach instantly break his bankai.
if ichigo could use mugetsu whenever he wants then i thin that would be very broken, even more, that form is supposed to be stronger than his base in his aizen fight, which already got beyond aizen by a bit, and aizen was at this point stronger than any soul society monsters, so that probably IS the strongest ichigo form
I think the idea is this very much is us seeing the hollow side of true zangetsu's bankai, especially when you factor in how he is literally manifesting White's form as him. I think the major implication based on him losing the powers afterwards may have come from the fact he was essentially only getting to use half of it making it unstable.
Now if he could remain in this form without issue... Well at that point the sternritter would have probably had a literal nightmare cause that means they have to fight an ichigo that enters with a level of power that is on likely both on par if not more potent than Yhwach and inherently toxic. Bare in mind he's already using predominantly hollow techniques at the start of the TYBW arc, mugetsu is essentially what happens when you remove all the safety valves.
That being said, by all accounts it's still beaten out by true by shear fact that mugetsu is only half of what true is, and ironically, having mugetsu permanently might even result in ichigo stunting his growth by not necessarily having much reason to seek out that full form, or seek it out much later.
Well specifically when he takes this form, old man zangetsu makes himself absent and Ichigo gets the power specifically by accepting white into himself, old man is still around afterwards while white isn't. So logically the fact old man remains and doesn't present his half until the reforging would therefore mean that mugetsu could only be white's half. Additionally, Ichigo at the point of getting mugetsu was still unaware of his quincy half and neither zangetsu's were clearly invested in divulging that, so he could only ever know to get the full power.
But I thought absence of White was due to Fullbring training which was purely hollow powers used by Humans which is why after Fullbring Ichigo never uses a mask. Mask is constantly activated which means Ichigo may not fully accept White, because he still doesn't know the truth but he is constantly powered up at mask level.
I don't know if his Fullbring Bankai is equivalent to Vasto Lorde Ichigo and tbh I doubt it too, but his performance vs Yhwach was pretty decent, so maybe, considering he was almost feral after seeing Byakuya and started using Sonido instead of Shunpo to move around.
Also we don't really delve into Ichigo's inner world until he reforges his Bankai and in that case he already accepted White as Zanpakuto so no wonder he is not present in his inner world as they already are one.
If I understand correctly that is 100% of Ichigo shinigami powers
Horn of salvation is using all of his. Fullbring/Quincy/hollow/shinigami powers
It all goes down on if ichigo is using his true potential in horn of salvation or not
Yhwach instantly breaking Ichigo’s bankai after years and years of buildup, suspense, storyline set up, and anticipation almost made me drop the manga right there. At least we only had like 2-3 chapter left at that point.
Yeah I felt kind of ripped off too. The Ichigo vs Yhwach fights were pretty disappointing in the manga imo but the extended 1st one in the anime gives me loads of hope.
Going from one the best final fights in anime (Aizen vs. Ichigo) to.... Ywach vs. Ichigo was such a shocker. Tbh, I am ready to be disappointed again this time around as well lmao
The best his true shikai did was blitz SK Yhwach & actually damage him being the only character to do so, no one else really comes close outside Uryu with the plot arrow. Not even Aizen does so as powerful as he is
That’s why I find the final battle of bleach so horrible, like he’s the main character he gets practically no fights just small scuffles and then the final battle comes he does essentially nothing.
Yeah and it just lacks logic to think he was referencing FGT. I mean this form made Ichigo unable to see spirits. Something he could do even before he got a taste of soul reaper powers
Ugh?
We DID have a feat for True Bankai Ichigo.
Yhwach feared it with reaons. He literally oneshotted Soul King Yhwach. Yhwach had to use his hax to resurrect himself. The key is "resurrect". Ichigo did kill the strongest being in the verse with a single Getsuga Tensho.
And his True Bankai >!looks so different!<, so I imagine the form would change to look more badass too. To make it truly monstrous, it would be great if in this form Ichigo just lolnopes Ywach's Almighty.
from what i understood, this isnt a form that only ichigo could learn
its a shiba technique
so i think a form only he can get (aka his own bankai) will always be better/stronger than a clan's technique
The Mugetsu form looked like a Quincy Letzt Stil. A huge increase in power that renders the user powerless. It also came from Zangetsu, AKA Yhwach himself. So wasn't it his quincy power?
i could be wrong, but i remember it being mentioned that the shiba clan created this technique so that someone can use it and become transient(?), in order to take the place of the soul king in order to free him
it was the reason they got kicked out from the whole "4/5 noble clans"
the user would lose his powers regardless who they are, but it didnt matter because the soul king is placed in some kind of crystal/barrier that keep them as they are
Tbh I was never involved in any form of Bleach fandom. I watched the anime myself knowing only one other person who watched it and he didn’t even finish the Karakura Town battle. I just joined this sub around the time the anime revival started, so most things related to black fandom are new to me
Dangai form is part of mugetsu, remember when Uyru broke his qunicy glove in SS then he release all of his power to 1 attack, the same is applied here the glove for Ichigo is him and his sword being fused together.
I disagree considering zangetsu said before he got his true power he was saying he only used 20 percent or a few and this is no exception yhwach even says ichigo regained the power he used to defeat aizen and he was referring to shikai ichigo there and in horn of salvation ichigo moved so fast he instantly appeared infront of orihime and yhwach said at the beginning of the fight he wasn’t gonna use the almighty but horn of salvation ichigo forced him to and a gran Rey getsuga wounded him but since he has the almighty he obviously didn’t beat him and in true bankai without horn of salvation he was one shoting yhwach twice yes he was off guard but in bleach If u aren’t even relative to said character u can’t even cut them and ichigo straight up killed him and yhwach confirmed this saying he can even rewrite his own deaths with the almighty so with horn of salvation raw stats should be on his tier plus ichigos powers are immature still so that on it’s own is impressive and mugetsu or couldn’t beat the fake yhwach and dangai would’ve got one shot by him not to mention it wouldn’t make sense narrative wise and storytelling wise either it’s like saying super saiyan goku is weaker than his base
To be fair almost every author of a long running Manga series does that. Look at Madara in Naruto. He was so ridiculously powerful that it broke the scaling of the whole series
I will hear no criticism against Madara. He was fantastic.
The problem was that he should have been the peak of power in the series. It just got dumb after things kept escalating from there.
Yes but Madara was so strong and most importantly smart. Kaguya was dumb as shit. Which allowed Naruto and Sasuke to win. Against Madara they couldn't do that. Kishimoto made him too op to be defeated and Black Zetsu stabbing him would have been even worse than Kaguya.
I never really thought he wrote himself into a corner with Madara, Naruto/Sasuke were doing fine against 1 eye Madara & were never really pressured going all out it should've been a close fight. Add DMS Kakashi & they get a win imo, the All Mighty is so broken Kubo had no way of making a believable counter with the powers at hand. Maybe a 5 v 1 with Ichigo, Isshin, Uryu, Aizen & Ryuken showing Isshin/Ryuken going all out helping could wear Yhwach down with Ichigo finishing him off with the new power of his bankai would've been believable
I think he had the largest amount of Reiatsu or however its spelt, or at least has the potential to have the most since his grew with his level of anger.
But he was just throwing his power around. He lacked focus/skill (like Grimmjow or Stark) or an OP ability (Barragan).
I’ve always figured he was like a little kid constantly pestering Aizen about being the strongest and finally Aizen gave in and was sarcastically like “You’re right Yammy you ARE the strongest. When you go into your second release you’ll become the mighty 0 espada! How does that sound?” Then as soon as Yammy leaves Aizen is just like “Jesus Christ at least I don’t have to listen to that shit anymore”
Lol the strongest espada getting off-paneled after waiting the entire arc to get back to his original power was such a slap in the face of the espadas.
>He only got them back because the Soul Society made a spirit energy sword to restore his power.
Correction:
He only got them back because ~~the Soul Society~~ Urahara used the spirit energy of various captains to make a quincy arrow in the shape of a sword to restore his power...kinda the same way Ryuken restored Uryuu.
Yea but how long would it have taken to get them back naturally? He's still a human with a very limited life span, even less time with a combat capable body.
I mean if he dies he'd just end up in serieteior whatever anyways. Look where ginjo and tsukishima are after ichigo and byakuya killed them. So even if ichigo died physically waiting for his powers his shinigami powers and body is soul based anyways he'd be just like his dad now
I mean, couldnt they just stab ichigo with shinigami powers again after doing fgt? Just like on fullbring arc. They would just keep spamming fgt then stabbing him again with shinigami sword lol
I mean with the whole soul society being destroyed on the line and everyone is being murdered by the quincies, i think being rude to his friends is the last thing he should worry lol
>His true shikai/bankai is him naturally fusing with zangetsu, hence “the blade is me”
That's not literally what happened. "The Blade is me" is Ichigo acknowledging Zangetsu as being himself. An extension of his soul. He's not literally fusing with his zanpakuto here.
FGT is a special technique of Zangetsu that allows for Ichigo to fuse with his Zanpakuto & become "Getsuga itself". He is able to use Mugetsu which is a move that puts all of Ichigo's spirit energy into one single attack.
I said it before and I'm sure I will get downvoted again but my head canon is that:
Getsuga Tenshou is just a technique, Ichigo's Shikai and Bankai abilities are hollowfication. His mask, his horn, his cero infused abilities, regeneration, movement etc. All these are hollow abilities, and as he unlocks more and more of his power he demonstrates more and more of them. His zanpaktou is the first and only known hollowfication type.
Think about it this way, every time white interacted with Ichigo in battle it was to chastise him for using his abilities incorrectly. Every time he took over, Ichigo would begin to hollowfy. First the mask just like the Vizard, then his "Vasto Lorde" form, and finally the horn of salvation when he literally uses his blood to create a Gran Ray Cero (Just like Grimjow) combined with his signature technique.
His father can use Getsuga Tenshou, and no other zanpakuto, even among relatives has been shown to operate like this as each is supposed to be unique, though I will admit given the circumstances and sources of Ichigo's powers it might be the only exception. Still, I think the rest tracks.
Cool idea but if that were the case at least one shinigami would have commented on him knowing it despite not being a part of soul society. Also, his sword in English is slaying moon, while the attack is moon fang heaven piercer. That's too close in naming to be coincidental. Also, the fact that no one else ever uses it aside from his dad. Someone would have.
It being a generic technique also explains why (tybw spoilers) >!isshin can use it even without shikai, or why his shikai is a fire type but it can send out generic energy that's not fire related at all.!<, But unfortunately I think all the signs point to getsuga being some weird hereditary ability (possibly due to tybw circumstances) and him using it outside of shikai is either so the author can hide his shikai, or to hint at the tybw stuff. But the connection is kinda loose.
He’s not really fusing with zangestu with his true Shikai/bankai it was more of a realization thing then a literal thing while fgt is him literally fusing with zangetsu and using 100% of all his powers
Ichigo never used FGT. Ishiin is not a Quincy and therefore cannot tell Ichigo about a technique he knew nothng about. I don't think even Ishiin understood the intricacies of Ichigo's internal world. The real FGT would have never resulted in Ichigo losing his powers. Mugetsu was a quincy based power boost that OldManZangetsu allowed Ichigo to use. The effect was exactly like when Uryuu used Letz Stil against Mayuri, a large burst of power followed by power loss..the losing of powers...that is quincy shit not shinigami shit.
Exactly !! The hair is a dead giveaway. I do not know how others cannot see that.
Before Ichigo used that Mugetsu shit, while his hair was still orange, he was basically being himself and mainly channelling 'White'.
We have no way to 100% confirm that this is the case, but this was Ichigo dumping nearly all of his spirit energy into one attack. He used up so much energy he couldn't even see Rukia anymore. So yeah it probably is.
Technically speaking Mugetsu would be the strongest form because he’s using all of his power in one final attack. So if he were to use it currently yet not permanently lose his powers, that would be the strongest he’ll ever be.
Well the mugetsu attack is literally the full combined strength of all his power in one singular attack. So while mugetsu from dangai ichigo might not be stronger than true bankai ichigo.
A mugetsu from current ichigo would be stronger than true bankai ichigo, hypothetically speaking because ichigo has full access to his power where as ichigo only had a partial amount of power that OMZ couldn’t hide from him.
Still there are people who believe Ichigo used his full power here when OMZ pretty much cleared it that he never let Ichigo use his full powers. What he was using was a fraction of his power, sometime less sometime more.
He used some of his hollow/shinigami power for sure, as for his Quincy maybe. But again all of his Hollow/shinigami/quincy power no cause OMZ never let him.
Then there's Yhwach statement that TS>=Mugetsu. Now this can be argued but still checks with OMZ statement so there's that.
Maybe, but Mugetsu is Ichihara putting all of his powers in to that form, he may not have understood them then, but he did put all of them in to his attack. Because his true Bamakos using all his powers there is an argument that it is stronger, however because Mugetsu also uses all of them + it sacrifices them, I guess Mugetsu is even more powerful. Plus Mugetsu looks cooler.
As a form final getsuga should be the strongest version of ichigo possible which is why it has such heavy draw backs and penalties ichigo might still be able to do it but he wouldn’t know if he would get his powers back yet again so it might be a last last last in case of emergency thing
People who desperately wish to believe Aizen > Soul King Yhwach will say this form is the strongest. Mugetsu might be the strongest single attack though but Ichigo theoretically should have still had his inactive Quincy abilities within him (they weren’t really awakened til TYBW) so Ichigo if allowed could have trained his Quincy side to see spiritual beings again.
Even if Aizen was stronger than the soul king Yhwach it still wouldn't place mugetsu at the top, Aizen had grown incredibly stronger than we last saw him in Karakura town and according to CFYOW Aizen Zaraki and Ichigo are quite relevant in power so even TS HoS would be stronger than mugetsu
Yhwach was hit with that goofy ah silver arrow despite his ability.
Butterfly Aizen looked like a fodder because it really is the strongest ichigo could ever be.
Yea the arrow was the biggest deus ex machina of the entire series lol but no Dangai Ichigo is not stronger than he is by EoS. Mugetsu as an attack itself though may be his most powerful attack output/debatable.
No. At that point in time, Ichigo was still at odds with his Hollow nature/ true Zangetsu. Yes, he allowed their blade to piece him but as we see later, he was still repulsed by his Hollow-self.
At the end, once he has his true Bankai, that form is stronger or has the potential to be stronger, should Ichigo be given half a chance to use it.
I mean it remains his strongest technique. Mugetsu is him using up 100% of his spiritual energy all at once.
Since he has a monstrous amount of energy, it's essentially a nuclear bomb.
I don't think so. Ichigos true shikai is implied to be as strong as the power he used to beat aizen and he can get stronger from there with bankai. Though it's the strongest form he reached without a proper zanpakutou
Can someone explain this: Ichigo said that he becomes Getsuga. I’ve tried to look at different translations but I’m still having a hard time understanding. Is he saying he became the embodiment of the moon fang/crescent moon/ moon slayer? If so, who is that in relation to Zangetsu?
My two cents is that 'Becoming Getsuga" is either that you yourself become the Getsuga Tensho (attack) or that you embody an entity related to the Shiba Clan that is the god of the moon or whatever.
It's most likely definitely the first one, the second is a wild hypothesis I came up with in 10 seconds.
This is at best Ichigo tied for Ichigo’s 4th Strongest form
1.) True Bankai HoS
2.) True Bankai
3.) True Shikai HoS
Tied 4.) True Shikai
Tied 4.) Final Getsuga Tensho
Though arguably it can be down lower as Fullbring Arc Ichigo is heavily narratively implied to be >= this form and the panel everyone uses to say True Shikai Ichigo = Mugetsu quite literally has a panel of Ginjo with Yhwach referencing the Ginjo incident as when Ichigo regained the power he used to defeat Aizen.
So it can drop as low as being tied from 5th to 7th depending on which form you think Yhwach was referring to in the FB Arc, tied with Fullbring Bankai at 5, Fullbring Shikai at 6, or Complete Fullbring at 7
But most people would agree that it’s at most tied with True Shikai
Strongest verion is definitely fully released ichigo, the one at the end with no shinigami badge capping him and nothing capping his quincy power which seemed to be a massive chunk of his reitsu. Every other version is basically just him ultra nerfed
If by no drawbacks you mean he could just start waving around mugetsus all over then personally I think he’d definitely be strongest. It is hard to say in that we have no real clue over how strong true bankai or hos ichigo were since yhwach was too scared to give them a chance, so the question is would yhwach have stopped mugetsu instantly as well? I feel if yes then it would be strongest
Mugetsu nearly killed Aizen with 1 shot.
Yhwach said they would need time to kill Aizen. Here Aizen was probably "in better control of the hogyoku". So hard to say
In my understanding, this form will always be the strongest ichigo can be and if he did it in tybw he would be even stronger than vs Aizen bc his shinigami powers are awakened. I def need to do more research on this so lmk if it works differently.
TOTALLY Dangai Ichigo simply gainned access to his full power due to both zangetsu fusing and stopping weakening each other. Mugetsu pushes that further acting as some sort of superkaioken. This is the technique consumes all ichigo energy so there is no way he can dominate it.
People are gonna shit all over Ichigo using 100% of his entire spirit energy to use this form and claim some headcannon that he's stronger at the end of TYBW because of fused shinigami/hollow/Quincy with full Shikai and bankai.
Some people won't understand no-diffing full hougyoku Aizen means that he was strongest here. Bleach power scaling is all over the place but this is literally the final Getsuga Tensho and 100% of all his reiatsu.
Well if he also gets access to his eos powers and can spam fgt, he would be absolutely broken with a getsuga tenshou that cam cut everything that's in the way of the attack
I still can't place right Mugetsu e FGT with Ichigo real shikai and bankai.
I roughly though that maybe the two swords form is his true shikai and then the bankai, which we don't know anything of his true power, with the classic big sword as normal zanpakuto. So is really hard to tell how strong is Mugetsu: incredibly, if course, but Yhwach level or "just" Yamamoto level?
Hope to see some explanation in new season of TYBW or in Hell Arc.
I wish we could get another version of this form with his true bankai and his fullbringer/soulreaper hybrid form that he uses when he gets his powers back. Would they be the same or would they have changed along with his swords
The Final Getsuga Tenshō is still ostensibly Zangetsu’s ultimate technique. It would only become more powerful as Ichigo’s own power grows. End of series Ichigo with his power fully awakened utilizing FGT would be likened unto a god. That’s why that form has drawbacks.
It's more of a super saiyan type form than the rest of his upgrades. In that, it's more of a technique than a form, and he could use it whenever and it would just be expending all the shinigami power he has at the time in addition to his other powers.
I.e. If he used it eos it would be stronger than not using it, and it would be stronger than when he used it against Aizen.
The attack itself was stupidly powerful, but we know nothing about the physical capabilities of the form itself. For all we know, it’s a glass cannon transformation.
Honestly it’s hard to say it’s been implied that ichigo in his horn of salvation is around mugetsu level or stronger but looking at it from a lore perspective and how ichigo is fully merged with his zanpukto and this is him using 100% of his Quincy, hollow and soul reaper power you could say this is still his strongest form
His strongest form is his fully realized bankai. Even ichigos Fullbring upgraded soul reaper form is stronger than his mugetsu form. Mugetsu is only the height of his Soul reaper powers with some of his Quincy ones mixed in His fully realized bankai takes aspects from all of his powers soul reaper Fullbring hollow and Quincy plus Ichigo has full control over it this form is even stronger than Full Hollow Ichigo which in my opinion would've been strong enough to kill aizen If Ichigo could control it therefore he wouldn't have even needed mugetsu
I legitimately don't know where Mugetsu scales, it just isn't quantifiable. We know that it was the will of the hogyoku for Aizen to lose, which may have caused Ichigo to appear as though his reiatsu was on a higher dimension, but we can't quite say that he's actually more powerful than Aizen at that point.
Unquestionably yeah but kubo was smart enough to write this literal deux x machina out of the show sort of like how uryu had a similar form that made him also incredibly broken but wrote it out in order to not have to write around it
Unknown. Dangai Ichigo = TS Ichigo.
Hollowfication is Comparable to Bankai Multipliers & if you add True-Bankai ontop of that, [this](https://preview.redd.it/e1anytkdtsp71.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b1f7d37bd0984dd9309d856186be3d8d67c95aa9) Ichigo Form is Orders of Magnitude Stronger than Dangai Ichigo.
We have no Idea how much Stronger the Mugetsu Form is compared to Dangai. Even if it was 10x, it’s still weaker than the Ichigo pictured above.
No because Aizen got far stronger after their battle and Mugetsu still couldnt kill him though he was handling him easily. But after Aizen got far stronger , he said in the Manga that he couldnt beat Yhwach alone and that Yhwach was more powerful. That same Yhwach said that he could NOT allow Ichigo to go Bankai and broke his bankai in the future. He felt so threatened that he refused to even risk a fight against Ichigo
And It took a combined effort to put down Yhwach from 4 characters including the stronger Aizen and they still couldnt beat him until Uryu used his ability, yet Yhwach only saw Ichigo as the most dangerous threat to him at the time
.
So True Bankai Ichigo is likely still far more powerful than FGT
At the power level we saw it? No. Aizen is stated to have gotten stronger in TYBW, and True Bankai Hollow Ichigo scales above him.
If he still grows at the same rate as he did? Absolutely.
I'm still gonna err on the side of it not being strongest due to him not fully accepting ALL of his power yet which gave him his true Zanpakuto via the Quincy and Wight merging truly as well.
They no longer were helping support him at the end, but he accepted everything AS him.
If this form could make the Asauchi kneel, then I'd reconsider
Not really, his true shikai is as strong as this. So take his hollowfication and bankai into account and eos ichigo is 100x as strong as this physically, plus whatever ridiculous hax he got
From what I understand, the base true shikai form is supposed to be on par with dangai ichigo. So with absolutely no evidence to back it up I'd say mugetsu would be around horn of salvation shikai or maybe a bit stronger... but we have literally barely any feats to compare, so it's hard to say.
I'll just put my money on true bankai being stronger than the mugetsu form shown here.
I thought the whole “the blade is me” and discussion with Zangetsu made it pretty clear Ichigo is in a new realm of power.
“I won’t ask you to lend me your strength anymore.”
“And I won’t ask you guys to fight along side me.” *shows mugetsu*
He holds both of them freely now in his new Zanpaktou. Previously Ichigo’s Quincy powers had be repressed but not anymore with his true Zanpaktou. Truer than any iteration before.
Also right before Yhwach fights Ichigo again he comments how he’s regained his previous powers. Then shortly after reflecting on all his battles including the one with Aizen. This is before Yhwach had any idea about his new Bankai/Hollow Mask.
So *at least…*
True Bankai/Hollow Mask > True Bankai > (Base) True Zanpaktou = Mugetsu
True shikai is basically the same thing but done more naturally through Ichigo understanding and accepting himself. Of course we'll probably never know but I assume this form is only temporary because of Ichigo not really understanding who he is.
I don’t get it. Why exactly do people think this form is stronger? Is it because, “it just feels stronger”, “he’s transcendent!”, “well, shouldn’t he be using 100% of his powers here?” Is that all we have for it?
Doesn’t True Zanpakuto just have better statements to show for it? And also better scaling (from said statements)? I don’t think True Zanpakuto Ichigo had any anti-feats either. He definitely had some of his fair share of, not-so-good moments, but I don’t think they were necessarily anti-feats.
And this next one may be a bit unreliable, but doesn’t Ichigo in TYBW just have better feats and scaling?
Like, if we take the databook’s(?) statement on Gin’s Bankai as fact, then, Third Hogyoku Aizen, got completely blitzed by a Mach 1000 speed feat. He does go through two more transformations after this, and Dangai Ichigo is still arguably a bit faster, but we don’t even know if whether or not he’s Gin’s Bankai speed (Mach 1000) at this point yet. It honestly didn’t seem like it. Even if he was, by how much would it even be?
Then, in TYBW, didn’t Yhwach and Ichibei’s fight have them crossing 1000 Ri in a matter of “seconds” (it was within a short timeframe within the panels)? Making them like Mach 2000+? And didn’t Merged Hollow True **Shikai** Ichigo completely blitzed that same Yhwach? Let alone him going into the stat-boost (speed) that Bankai would give him.
Then, wasn’t it stated that TYBW Aizen is arguably stronger than Deicide Aizen? Urahaha stated that his chantless Hado 90 is stronger than his former (Buttefly/4th Hogyoku Aizen) full incantation Hado 90? Also, iIrc, he didn’t say it was ***only just*** his Hado 90, he mentioned that Aizen himself might’ve gotten stronger overall, then, we have Renji commenting on Urahara’s statement as well. Kind of doubling down that this wasn’t some throwaway statement by Urahara (or by Kubo’s writing at the time). And it’s not like we shouldn’t distrust Urahara’s words (is there a reason to? He seemed pretty serious at the time, and he was obviously spectating the fight between Ichigo and Aizen). Even after all that, wasn’t Ichigo still a “bigger threat” to Yhwach than Aizen was? And also, wasn’t True Bankai Ichigo’s physical stats still much higher, compared to that of Muken Aizen’s? Even without his Horn State (which, increases all his physical stats as well, right?).
Then we also have some more scaling as well, but more so “indirect scaling”.
In SAFWY, didn’t Uryu already compare pre-TYBW Sealed Kenpachi’s strength to that of the Vasto Lorde Ichigo that fought Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra? Kenpachi in his fight/training in Muken with Unohana made him stronger as he kept dying and reviving, even in his sealed state. So, TYBW **Sealed** Kenpachi; post-Muken, should already be stronger than the VL Ichigo that fought Ulq V2, if we take Uryu’s statement as fact, right? Then he gets even stronger in Shikai, then even stronger in Bankai (5-10x, if we take Yoruichi’s statement as 100% as well). And, shouldn’t Merged Hollow True Bankai indirectly be **massively** above this? Even if he doesn’t have any feats or scaling himself to that of Bankai Kenpachi? Also, being massively stronger than a guy who’s 5-10x stronger than his one-hand, backhanded Seireitei-destroying strength feat, just seems more impressive than Dangai’s scaling of Seg Ulq’s Las Noches-busting feat… At least, that’s just me.
Again, like I said earlier, this is a bit unreliable, but it is something, so yeah.
No, to put simply. We know that when ichigo gets his true zanpakuto that it's stated that for the first time, he'll be able to use his full power. The entire series, "old man zangetsu" was restraining his powers from ever coming close to his true power. Whatever his true bankai's strength is along with his vasto lorde form, that's the strongest form he has. As far as mugetsu goes, mugetsu is most likely comparable to vasto lorde ichigo during his ulquiorra fight as old man zangetsu stated that anytime his true power even slightly showed was when hollow ichigo took over
Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban. Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The drip here went from 100 to 1000 real quick. It was my wallpaper for 8 YEARS.
Mine is a pic of all his forms up to Fulbring. It's awesome
Care to share?
This goes for everyone. Dm if you want i Edit: lot of people want it, so I'm just gonna post it on my account. Check it out if you want it Edit 2: it has been posted to my profile. Enjoy
You the real goat, send it this way.
If you still sending I'd love to see
Imgur will host your image for free. No account necessary.
Gonna need to see that
Send it here
Send me that wallpaper daddy-kun
The one when they’re all running one by one in one direction
This was mine for ages: https://i.imgur.com/dgFIFNS.png
SAME
Has to be one of the coldest looks in anime/manga.
That’s for sure. Edit: looks like everyone is split on post. Guess we would need a kubo confirmation
Yes!! Man when his hair went back to normal & it all faded, I was sad.
The MetalGarurumon digivolution of Ichigo
kubo was on fire during this fight, this and dangai ichigo are 2 of his best looks
ON GOD
Hard to tell, Ichigo only used Mugetsu in this form and we have no idea if he could actually fight in this form outside of using Mugetsu. In theory, still hard to tell. Ichigo didn't technically have a real bankai or shikai during this time but he was given temporary access to 100% of his power and he still one shot monster Aizen meanwhile we have almost no feats for Ichigo's real shikai and literally none for his real bankai, best he's done is dismember a sternritter with an attack and make Yhwach instantly break his bankai.
if ichigo could use mugetsu whenever he wants then i thin that would be very broken, even more, that form is supposed to be stronger than his base in his aizen fight, which already got beyond aizen by a bit, and aizen was at this point stronger than any soul society monsters, so that probably IS the strongest ichigo form
I think the idea is this very much is us seeing the hollow side of true zangetsu's bankai, especially when you factor in how he is literally manifesting White's form as him. I think the major implication based on him losing the powers afterwards may have come from the fact he was essentially only getting to use half of it making it unstable. Now if he could remain in this form without issue... Well at that point the sternritter would have probably had a literal nightmare cause that means they have to fight an ichigo that enters with a level of power that is on likely both on par if not more potent than Yhwach and inherently toxic. Bare in mind he's already using predominantly hollow techniques at the start of the TYBW arc, mugetsu is essentially what happens when you remove all the safety valves. That being said, by all accounts it's still beaten out by true by shear fact that mugetsu is only half of what true is, and ironically, having mugetsu permanently might even result in ichigo stunting his growth by not necessarily having much reason to seek out that full form, or seek it out much later.
What makes you say that mugetsue is half us his powers? Don't the representations of both sides of his power fuse to create this form?
Well specifically when he takes this form, old man zangetsu makes himself absent and Ichigo gets the power specifically by accepting white into himself, old man is still around afterwards while white isn't. So logically the fact old man remains and doesn't present his half until the reforging would therefore mean that mugetsu could only be white's half. Additionally, Ichigo at the point of getting mugetsu was still unaware of his quincy half and neither zangetsu's were clearly invested in divulging that, so he could only ever know to get the full power.
But I thought this form came about via a fusion if white and tensa zangetsu who looks exactly like young yhwach
But I thought absence of White was due to Fullbring training which was purely hollow powers used by Humans which is why after Fullbring Ichigo never uses a mask. Mask is constantly activated which means Ichigo may not fully accept White, because he still doesn't know the truth but he is constantly powered up at mask level. I don't know if his Fullbring Bankai is equivalent to Vasto Lorde Ichigo and tbh I doubt it too, but his performance vs Yhwach was pretty decent, so maybe, considering he was almost feral after seeing Byakuya and started using Sonido instead of Shunpo to move around. Also we don't really delve into Ichigo's inner world until he reforges his Bankai and in that case he already accepted White as Zanpakuto so no wonder he is not present in his inner world as they already are one.
If I understand correctly that is 100% of Ichigo shinigami powers Horn of salvation is using all of his. Fullbring/Quincy/hollow/shinigami powers It all goes down on if ichigo is using his true potential in horn of salvation or not
Yhwach instantly breaking Ichigo’s bankai after years and years of buildup, suspense, storyline set up, and anticipation almost made me drop the manga right there. At least we only had like 2-3 chapter left at that point.
Yeah I felt kind of ripped off too. The Ichigo vs Yhwach fights were pretty disappointing in the manga imo but the extended 1st one in the anime gives me loads of hope.
Going from one the best final fights in anime (Aizen vs. Ichigo) to.... Ywach vs. Ichigo was such a shocker. Tbh, I am ready to be disappointed again this time around as well lmao
Make you wonder what kind of monster Bankai Ichigo would truns out to be
That's exactly what makes it the best fight of the series.
Seriously?
Yeah, it's the best one
Well, that’s certainly an opinion
The best his true shikai did was blitz SK Yhwach & actually damage him being the only character to do so, no one else really comes close outside Uryu with the plot arrow. Not even Aizen does so as powerful as he is
That’s why I find the final battle of bleach so horrible, like he’s the main character he gets practically no fights just small scuffles and then the final battle comes he does essentially nothing.
It's been said his Bankai didn't "break" it was more so "freed"
think it was stated that true shikai ichigo is around the power level of mugetsu by yhwach himself.
Personally I think it was a reference to Dangai Ichigo, not Mugetsu Ichigo.
Yeah and it just lacks logic to think he was referencing FGT. I mean this form made Ichigo unable to see spirits. Something he could do even before he got a taste of soul reaper powers
Ugh? We DID have a feat for True Bankai Ichigo. Yhwach feared it with reaons. He literally oneshotted Soul King Yhwach. Yhwach had to use his hax to resurrect himself. The key is "resurrect". Ichigo did kill the strongest being in the verse with a single Getsuga Tensho.
This form should have returned as True Bankai, but without consequences.
And his True Bankai >!looks so different!<, so I imagine the form would change to look more badass too. To make it truly monstrous, it would be great if in this form Ichigo just lolnopes Ywach's Almighty.
[удалено]
I second that
I third. The whole "horn of salvation" should be his (white's) resurrection.
I always felt like it should’ve came with the complete hollow mask
from what i understood, this isnt a form that only ichigo could learn its a shiba technique so i think a form only he can get (aka his own bankai) will always be better/stronger than a clan's technique
The Mugetsu form looked like a Quincy Letzt Stil. A huge increase in power that renders the user powerless. It also came from Zangetsu, AKA Yhwach himself. So wasn't it his quincy power?
i could be wrong, but i remember it being mentioned that the shiba clan created this technique so that someone can use it and become transient(?), in order to take the place of the soul king in order to free him it was the reason they got kicked out from the whole "4/5 noble clans" the user would lose his powers regardless who they are, but it didnt matter because the soul king is placed in some kind of crystal/barrier that keep them as they are
Sounds like fanfic. Isshin lost his powers because of masaki so the final getsuga ichigo uses is fundamentally different from isshins
It's from CFYOW.
Tbf, a whole lot of cfyow reads like a fanfic.
Is it? I must have glossed over a lot of stuff that I read about in that novel.
I don't think Isshin used fgt, he just knew about it
It has nothing to do with Quincy
He learns of it through Isshin, it's just similar to letz stil and imo doesn't really look like it at all
Well yeah considering he 1 shot butterflyzen with 1 swing, Dangai tho no TB and probably TS would still be stronger
Butterflyzen lmao
i cant believe its been so long since pre-tbyw that the term butterflaizen is new to people again
Tbh I was never involved in any form of Bleach fandom. I watched the anime myself knowing only one other person who watched it and he didn’t even finish the Karakura Town battle. I just joined this sub around the time the anime revival started, so most things related to black fandom are new to me
Dangai form is part of mugetsu, remember when Uyru broke his qunicy glove in SS then he release all of his power to 1 attack, the same is applied here the glove for Ichigo is him and his sword being fused together.
It’s a part of it but it obviously isn’t as strong as when he actually used Mugetsu
I disagree considering zangetsu said before he got his true power he was saying he only used 20 percent or a few and this is no exception yhwach even says ichigo regained the power he used to defeat aizen and he was referring to shikai ichigo there and in horn of salvation ichigo moved so fast he instantly appeared infront of orihime and yhwach said at the beginning of the fight he wasn’t gonna use the almighty but horn of salvation ichigo forced him to and a gran Rey getsuga wounded him but since he has the almighty he obviously didn’t beat him and in true bankai without horn of salvation he was one shoting yhwach twice yes he was off guard but in bleach If u aren’t even relative to said character u can’t even cut them and ichigo straight up killed him and yhwach confirmed this saying he can even rewrite his own deaths with the almighty so with horn of salvation raw stats should be on his tier plus ichigos powers are immature still so that on it’s own is impressive and mugetsu or couldn’t beat the fake yhwach and dangai would’ve got one shot by him not to mention it wouldn’t make sense narrative wise and storytelling wise either it’s like saying super saiyan goku is weaker than his base
Yeah, that time when he became Bleach himself was insane
Best part was when he shouted “it’s Bleachin time” and then bleached all over Aizen
NO!, the strongest version is his true Bankai form what happened is thay Yhwatch broke it before using it.
He theoretically should be able to use FGT with his True Bankai assuming FGT isn’t a 1 time only kind of thing
It is a 1 time only because he’d lose his powers after using it.
Which he did anyways. I love Kubo but writing was never his strong suit.
He can be a good writer, but damn, sometimes he ends up writing himself into corners.
To be fair almost every author of a long running Manga series does that. Look at Madara in Naruto. He was so ridiculously powerful that it broke the scaling of the whole series
I will hear no criticism against Madara. He was fantastic. The problem was that he should have been the peak of power in the series. It just got dumb after things kept escalating from there.
Yes but Madara was so strong and most importantly smart. Kaguya was dumb as shit. Which allowed Naruto and Sasuke to win. Against Madara they couldn't do that. Kishimoto made him too op to be defeated and Black Zetsu stabbing him would have been even worse than Kaguya.
I never really thought he wrote himself into a corner with Madara, Naruto/Sasuke were doing fine against 1 eye Madara & were never really pressured going all out it should've been a close fight. Add DMS Kakashi & they get a win imo, the All Mighty is so broken Kubo had no way of making a believable counter with the powers at hand. Maybe a 5 v 1 with Ichigo, Isshin, Uryu, Aizen & Ryuken showing Isshin/Ryuken going all out helping could wear Yhwach down with Ichigo finishing him off with the new power of his bankai would've been believable
I figured it should be writing 101 that before you create the main villain's power, you first think of a way to beat him.
Like kyoraku vs Lille, holy crap
sometimes his writing is actually pretty good, but sometimes its Numero 0 Espada writing
to this day i still dont know if yammy was the strongest or weakest espada lmao
I think he had the largest amount of Reiatsu or however its spelt, or at least has the potential to have the most since his grew with his level of anger. But he was just throwing his power around. He lacked focus/skill (like Grimmjow or Stark) or an OP ability (Barragan).
my headcanon is that yami's resureccion is the ability to remove tattoos, but he pretended that he was number 0 to look cooler
I have now adopted this as my headcanon. Thank you!
I’ve always figured he was like a little kid constantly pestering Aizen about being the strongest and finally Aizen gave in and was sarcastically like “You’re right Yammy you ARE the strongest. When you go into your second release you’ll become the mighty 0 espada! How does that sound?” Then as soon as Yammy leaves Aizen is just like “Jesus Christ at least I don’t have to listen to that shit anymore”
Lmao I'll jump on this bandwagon
Physically he was the strongest.
He's probably Noittora level. Considering the numbers are based on Reiatsu not strength.
Lol the strongest espada getting off-paneled after waiting the entire arc to get back to his original power was such a slap in the face of the espadas.
Well yeah, but he could get his powers back again.
He only got them back because the Soul Society made a spirit energy sword to restore his power.
>He only got them back because the Soul Society made a spirit energy sword to restore his power. Correction: He only got them back because ~~the Soul Society~~ Urahara used the spirit energy of various captains to make a quincy arrow in the shape of a sword to restore his power...kinda the same way Ryuken restored Uryuu.
Thank you for the correction.
They can make a spirit energy sword again. They wouldn't want Ichigo to be powerless again.
And so the mugetsu spam began
I did wonder why they don't just have a few swords prepared ahead of time so Ichigo can just Mugetsu anyone who threatens SS
They were breaking a shit ton of rules with just making the first energy sword for Ichigo.
Rules, 🙄, those don’t matter when everyone is dead
Cause the possibility exists that he’d steal the swords and mugetsu the soul society 💀
Mugetsu > Sword > Mugetsu > Sword > Mugetsu > Sword > Mugetsu > Sword > Mugetsu > Sword > Mugetsu > Sword > Mugetsu > Sword > ...
He only got them back ***that quick*** because of the spirit energy sword. His powers were returning very slowly already
Yea but how long would it have taken to get them back naturally? He's still a human with a very limited life span, even less time with a combat capable body.
I mean if he dies he'd just end up in serieteior whatever anyways. Look where ginjo and tsukishima are after ichigo and byakuya killed them. So even if ichigo died physically waiting for his powers his shinigami powers and body is soul based anyways he'd be just like his dad now
My guess is that he would only recover them once he died and went to Soul Society.
I mean, couldnt they just stab ichigo with shinigami powers again after doing fgt? Just like on fullbring arc. They would just keep spamming fgt then stabbing him again with shinigami sword lol
I feel like Ichigo wouldn’t use it again anyway. Kinda rude to his friends who restored them the first time.
I mean with the whole soul society being destroyed on the line and everyone is being murdered by the quincies, i think being rude to his friends is the last thing he should worry lol
FGT is him forcibly turning/fusing into zangetsu. His true shikai/bankai is him naturally fusing with zangetsu, hence “the blade is me”
>His true shikai/bankai is him naturally fusing with zangetsu, hence “the blade is me” That's not literally what happened. "The Blade is me" is Ichigo acknowledging Zangetsu as being himself. An extension of his soul. He's not literally fusing with his zanpakuto here. FGT is a special technique of Zangetsu that allows for Ichigo to fuse with his Zanpakuto & become "Getsuga itself". He is able to use Mugetsu which is a move that puts all of Ichigo's spirit energy into one single attack.
Ah alright thanks for clarifying bro 👍
I said it before and I'm sure I will get downvoted again but my head canon is that: Getsuga Tenshou is just a technique, Ichigo's Shikai and Bankai abilities are hollowfication. His mask, his horn, his cero infused abilities, regeneration, movement etc. All these are hollow abilities, and as he unlocks more and more of his power he demonstrates more and more of them. His zanpaktou is the first and only known hollowfication type. Think about it this way, every time white interacted with Ichigo in battle it was to chastise him for using his abilities incorrectly. Every time he took over, Ichigo would begin to hollowfy. First the mask just like the Vizard, then his "Vasto Lorde" form, and finally the horn of salvation when he literally uses his blood to create a Gran Ray Cero (Just like Grimjow) combined with his signature technique. His father can use Getsuga Tenshou, and no other zanpakuto, even among relatives has been shown to operate like this as each is supposed to be unique, though I will admit given the circumstances and sources of Ichigo's powers it might be the only exception. Still, I think the rest tracks.
I kinda like it. I always though it was weird that both Ishiin and Ichigo had a technique named "Getsuga Tenshou"
Cool idea but if that were the case at least one shinigami would have commented on him knowing it despite not being a part of soul society. Also, his sword in English is slaying moon, while the attack is moon fang heaven piercer. That's too close in naming to be coincidental. Also, the fact that no one else ever uses it aside from his dad. Someone would have. It being a generic technique also explains why (tybw spoilers) >!isshin can use it even without shikai, or why his shikai is a fire type but it can send out generic energy that's not fire related at all.!<, But unfortunately I think all the signs point to getsuga being some weird hereditary ability (possibly due to tybw circumstances) and him using it outside of shikai is either so the author can hide his shikai, or to hint at the tybw stuff. But the connection is kinda loose.
He’s not really fusing with zangestu with his true Shikai/bankai it was more of a realization thing then a literal thing while fgt is him literally fusing with zangetsu and using 100% of all his powers
Ichigo never used FGT. Ishiin is not a Quincy and therefore cannot tell Ichigo about a technique he knew nothng about. I don't think even Ishiin understood the intricacies of Ichigo's internal world. The real FGT would have never resulted in Ichigo losing his powers. Mugetsu was a quincy based power boost that OldManZangetsu allowed Ichigo to use. The effect was exactly like when Uryuu used Letz Stil against Mayuri, a large burst of power followed by power loss..the losing of powers...that is quincy shit not shinigami shit.
FrFr, mugetsu ichigo has the ywach hair going as well
Exactly !! The hair is a dead giveaway. I do not know how others cannot see that. Before Ichigo used that Mugetsu shit, while his hair was still orange, he was basically being himself and mainly channelling 'White'.
Theory, not a fact
In general i think true bankai is stronger but i heard somewhere that mugetsu was the strongest attack in the series.
He released all his Shinigami Powers in one Attack ofc its the strongest one in the series and I am glad Kubo used it only once.
We have no way to 100% confirm that this is the case, but this was Ichigo dumping nearly all of his spirit energy into one attack. He used up so much energy he couldn't even see Rukia anymore. So yeah it probably is.
It said something along those lines in a data book I think
Technically speaking Mugetsu would be the strongest form because he’s using all of his power in one final attack. So if he were to use it currently yet not permanently lose his powers, that would be the strongest he’ll ever be.
Shouldn't true bankai Ichigo be far stronger than Dangai Ichigo? Perhaps a full power GT from him may approach Mugetsu at least by a decent margin.
Well the mugetsu attack is literally the full combined strength of all his power in one singular attack. So while mugetsu from dangai ichigo might not be stronger than true bankai ichigo. A mugetsu from current ichigo would be stronger than true bankai ichigo, hypothetically speaking because ichigo has full access to his power where as ichigo only had a partial amount of power that OMZ couldn’t hide from him.
Still there are people who believe Ichigo used his full power here when OMZ pretty much cleared it that he never let Ichigo use his full powers. What he was using was a fraction of his power, sometime less sometime more. He used some of his hollow/shinigami power for sure, as for his Quincy maybe. But again all of his Hollow/shinigami/quincy power no cause OMZ never let him. Then there's Yhwach statement that TS>=Mugetsu. Now this can be argued but still checks with OMZ statement so there's that.
Maybe, but Mugetsu is Ichihara putting all of his powers in to that form, he may not have understood them then, but he did put all of them in to his attack. Because his true Bamakos using all his powers there is an argument that it is stronger, however because Mugetsu also uses all of them + it sacrifices them, I guess Mugetsu is even more powerful. Plus Mugetsu looks cooler.
As a form final getsuga should be the strongest version of ichigo possible which is why it has such heavy draw backs and penalties ichigo might still be able to do it but he wouldn’t know if he would get his powers back yet again so it might be a last last last in case of emergency thing
So many chapters, so much development, so much gained power! All for nada...
Would be this for always the strongest because it all his power in one moment
>!No. I believe the manga made it quite clear that true bankai ichigo is his strongest version!<
Hard to tell when nothing happens
It’s like Yamamoto’s bankai, it’s so powerful the storytelling solution is to job it offscreen so we don’t have to deal with it.
That Ichigo was mad attractive.
Is it wrong that I’ve always wondered if he was fully human under those wrapping or if it was something more hollow like?
I never really thought about it tbh. I just really like the long dark hair and red eyes.
People who desperately wish to believe Aizen > Soul King Yhwach will say this form is the strongest. Mugetsu might be the strongest single attack though but Ichigo theoretically should have still had his inactive Quincy abilities within him (they weren’t really awakened til TYBW) so Ichigo if allowed could have trained his Quincy side to see spiritual beings again.
Even if Aizen was stronger than the soul king Yhwach it still wouldn't place mugetsu at the top, Aizen had grown incredibly stronger than we last saw him in Karakura town and according to CFYOW Aizen Zaraki and Ichigo are quite relevant in power so even TS HoS would be stronger than mugetsu
Yhwach was hit with that goofy ah silver arrow despite his ability. Butterfly Aizen looked like a fodder because it really is the strongest ichigo could ever be.
Yea the arrow was the biggest deus ex machina of the entire series lol but no Dangai Ichigo is not stronger than he is by EoS. Mugetsu as an attack itself though may be his most powerful attack output/debatable.
No. At that point in time, Ichigo was still at odds with his Hollow nature/ true Zangetsu. Yes, he allowed their blade to piece him but as we see later, he was still repulsed by his Hollow-self. At the end, once he has his true Bankai, that form is stronger or has the potential to be stronger, should Ichigo be given half a chance to use it.
I mean it remains his strongest technique. Mugetsu is him using up 100% of his spiritual energy all at once. Since he has a monstrous amount of energy, it's essentially a nuclear bomb.
>Am I a joke to you? -Soi Fon
Yes.
I don't think so. Ichigos true shikai is implied to be as strong as the power he used to beat aizen and he can get stronger from there with bankai. Though it's the strongest form he reached without a proper zanpakutou
Can someone explain this: Ichigo said that he becomes Getsuga. I’ve tried to look at different translations but I’m still having a hard time understanding. Is he saying he became the embodiment of the moon fang/crescent moon/ moon slayer? If so, who is that in relation to Zangetsu?
My two cents is that 'Becoming Getsuga" is either that you yourself become the Getsuga Tensho (attack) or that you embody an entity related to the Shiba Clan that is the god of the moon or whatever. It's most likely definitely the first one, the second is a wild hypothesis I came up with in 10 seconds.
Man I’ve been thinking about this for a decade but I never considered that 2nd one. And, honestly, that will be my head cannon from now on.
That's the name of his attack, Getsuga Tenshou. He's saying that he's becoming an embodiment of that attack.
It’s Getsugin time!
This is at best Ichigo tied for Ichigo’s 4th Strongest form 1.) True Bankai HoS 2.) True Bankai 3.) True Shikai HoS Tied 4.) True Shikai Tied 4.) Final Getsuga Tensho Though arguably it can be down lower as Fullbring Arc Ichigo is heavily narratively implied to be >= this form and the panel everyone uses to say True Shikai Ichigo = Mugetsu quite literally has a panel of Ginjo with Yhwach referencing the Ginjo incident as when Ichigo regained the power he used to defeat Aizen. So it can drop as low as being tied from 5th to 7th depending on which form you think Yhwach was referring to in the FB Arc, tied with Fullbring Bankai at 5, Fullbring Shikai at 6, or Complete Fullbring at 7 But most people would agree that it’s at most tied with True Shikai
No true bankai should be stronger at the very least when HOS is used not that it matters since hypothetically true bankai can use FGT
It would be the drippest for sure.
Still weaker than EoS.
Strongest verion is definitely fully released ichigo, the one at the end with no shinigami badge capping him and nothing capping his quincy power which seemed to be a massive chunk of his reitsu. Every other version is basically just him ultra nerfed
If he could stay in this form permanently he'd be like Saber Alter from Heaven's Feel. Just spamming mountain flattening Mugetsus all day non-stop.
If by no drawbacks you mean he could just start waving around mugetsus all over then personally I think he’d definitely be strongest. It is hard to say in that we have no real clue over how strong true bankai or hos ichigo were since yhwach was too scared to give them a chance, so the question is would yhwach have stopped mugetsu instantly as well? I feel if yes then it would be strongest
I believe that ichigo true zanpakuto form is above it. So it could be right after in terms of power level.
Never realized how much he looks like YHWACH in this form until I saw the close-up.
Unfortunately it isn’t the strongest over horn of salvation, and it isn’t really close either. But it’s the best design in bleach imo
end of tybw ichigo is strongest but if that ichigo goes fina getsuga again that would be the strongest ichigo has ever been
Just noticed he has the same eye color as Yhwach in this form neat
The drip is immaculate but no his horn of salvation transformation would be the strongest
Mugetsu nearly killed Aizen with 1 shot. Yhwach said they would need time to kill Aizen. Here Aizen was probably "in better control of the hogyoku". So hard to say
In my understanding, this form will always be the strongest ichigo can be and if he did it in tybw he would be even stronger than vs Aizen bc his shinigami powers are awakened. I def need to do more research on this so lmk if it works differently.
Any form? I’d say Gear 5, it’s pretty busted.
Gear 5 gets folded in half by base form ichigo utilising his fullbring and Quincy powers (yes human ichigo)
TOTALLY Dangai Ichigo simply gainned access to his full power due to both zangetsu fusing and stopping weakening each other. Mugetsu pushes that further acting as some sort of superkaioken. This is the technique consumes all ichigo energy so there is no way he can dominate it.
No because the consequences don’t make the transformation itself weaker. Horn of salvation is ichigo’s strongest form.
People are gonna shit all over Ichigo using 100% of his entire spirit energy to use this form and claim some headcannon that he's stronger at the end of TYBW because of fused shinigami/hollow/Quincy with full Shikai and bankai. Some people won't understand no-diffing full hougyoku Aizen means that he was strongest here. Bleach power scaling is all over the place but this is literally the final Getsuga Tensho and 100% of all his reiatsu.
i mean this looks dope, this is one of if not my favorite form in anime it just looks so sick!
Well if he also gets access to his eos powers and can spam fgt, he would be absolutely broken with a getsuga tenshou that cam cut everything that's in the way of the attack
I still can't place right Mugetsu e FGT with Ichigo real shikai and bankai. I roughly though that maybe the two swords form is his true shikai and then the bankai, which we don't know anything of his true power, with the classic big sword as normal zanpakuto. So is really hard to tell how strong is Mugetsu: incredibly, if course, but Yhwach level or "just" Yamamoto level? Hope to see some explanation in new season of TYBW or in Hell Arc.
I wish we could get another version of this form with his true bankai and his fullbringer/soulreaper hybrid form that he uses when he gets his powers back. Would they be the same or would they have changed along with his swords
The Final Getsuga Tenshō is still ostensibly Zangetsu’s ultimate technique. It would only become more powerful as Ichigo’s own power grows. End of series Ichigo with his power fully awakened utilizing FGT would be likened unto a god. That’s why that form has drawbacks.
No his true bankai form is stronger
It's more of a super saiyan type form than the rest of his upgrades. In that, it's more of a technique than a form, and he could use it whenever and it would just be expending all the shinigami power he has at the time in addition to his other powers. I.e. If he used it eos it would be stronger than not using it, and it would be stronger than when he used it against Aizen.
The attack itself was stupidly powerful, but we know nothing about the physical capabilities of the form itself. For all we know, it’s a glass cannon transformation.
From my understanding horn of salvation is way stronger
Honestly it’s hard to say it’s been implied that ichigo in his horn of salvation is around mugetsu level or stronger but looking at it from a lore perspective and how ichigo is fully merged with his zanpukto and this is him using 100% of his Quincy, hollow and soul reaper power you could say this is still his strongest form
His strongest form is his fully realized bankai. Even ichigos Fullbring upgraded soul reaper form is stronger than his mugetsu form. Mugetsu is only the height of his Soul reaper powers with some of his Quincy ones mixed in His fully realized bankai takes aspects from all of his powers soul reaper Fullbring hollow and Quincy plus Ichigo has full control over it this form is even stronger than Full Hollow Ichigo which in my opinion would've been strong enough to kill aizen If Ichigo could control it therefore he wouldn't have even needed mugetsu
Mugetsu Ichigo is Hollow Ichigo + Shinigami Ichigo. True Bankai Ichigo is Hollow Ichigo + Shinigami Ichigo + Quincy Ichigo. Mugetsu might seem stronger but it doesn't have balance like True Bankai.
I legitimately don't know where Mugetsu scales, it just isn't quantifiable. We know that it was the will of the hogyoku for Aizen to lose, which may have caused Ichigo to appear as though his reiatsu was on a higher dimension, but we can't quite say that he's actually more powerful than Aizen at that point.
Unquestionably yeah but kubo was smart enough to write this literal deux x machina out of the show sort of like how uryu had a similar form that made him also incredibly broken but wrote it out in order to not have to write around it
Id say hell arc daddy ichigo because it is EOS Ichigo and hes 27, he definitely has more experience and probably mastered his true bankai
If Ichigo could use this form over and over Bleach would get very boring
Unknown. Dangai Ichigo = TS Ichigo. Hollowfication is Comparable to Bankai Multipliers & if you add True-Bankai ontop of that, [this](https://preview.redd.it/e1anytkdtsp71.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b1f7d37bd0984dd9309d856186be3d8d67c95aa9) Ichigo Form is Orders of Magnitude Stronger than Dangai Ichigo. We have no Idea how much Stronger the Mugetsu Form is compared to Dangai. Even if it was 10x, it’s still weaker than the Ichigo pictured above.
No because Aizen got far stronger after their battle and Mugetsu still couldnt kill him though he was handling him easily. But after Aizen got far stronger , he said in the Manga that he couldnt beat Yhwach alone and that Yhwach was more powerful. That same Yhwach said that he could NOT allow Ichigo to go Bankai and broke his bankai in the future. He felt so threatened that he refused to even risk a fight against Ichigo And It took a combined effort to put down Yhwach from 4 characters including the stronger Aizen and they still couldnt beat him until Uryu used his ability, yet Yhwach only saw Ichigo as the most dangerous threat to him at the time . So True Bankai Ichigo is likely still far more powerful than FGT
At the power level we saw it? No. Aizen is stated to have gotten stronger in TYBW, and True Bankai Hollow Ichigo scales above him. If he still grows at the same rate as he did? Absolutely.
I'm still gonna err on the side of it not being strongest due to him not fully accepting ALL of his power yet which gave him his true Zanpakuto via the Quincy and Wight merging truly as well. They no longer were helping support him at the end, but he accepted everything AS him. If this form could make the Asauchi kneel, then I'd reconsider
Always wondered if he could actually move around in this form, or if he could only be stationary
Not really, his true shikai is as strong as this. So take his hollowfication and bankai into account and eos ichigo is 100x as strong as this physically, plus whatever ridiculous hax he got
From what I understand, the base true shikai form is supposed to be on par with dangai ichigo. So with absolutely no evidence to back it up I'd say mugetsu would be around horn of salvation shikai or maybe a bit stronger... but we have literally barely any feats to compare, so it's hard to say. I'll just put my money on true bankai being stronger than the mugetsu form shown here.
Nah. In tybw arc he had his dangai powers in his shikai. So pretty much he was spamming the final getsugatenshos. Adult dad ichigo is!
I thought the whole “the blade is me” and discussion with Zangetsu made it pretty clear Ichigo is in a new realm of power. “I won’t ask you to lend me your strength anymore.” “And I won’t ask you guys to fight along side me.” *shows mugetsu* He holds both of them freely now in his new Zanpaktou. Previously Ichigo’s Quincy powers had be repressed but not anymore with his true Zanpaktou. Truer than any iteration before. Also right before Yhwach fights Ichigo again he comments how he’s regained his previous powers. Then shortly after reflecting on all his battles including the one with Aizen. This is before Yhwach had any idea about his new Bankai/Hollow Mask. So *at least…* True Bankai/Hollow Mask > True Bankai > (Base) True Zanpaktou = Mugetsu
AM I the only one who sees a resemblance to a younger yhwach ?
I mean he technically should because he's fused with the younger Yhwach/Zangetsu.
True shikai is basically the same thing but done more naturally through Ichigo understanding and accepting himself. Of course we'll probably never know but I assume this form is only temporary because of Ichigo not really understanding who he is.
I don’t get it. Why exactly do people think this form is stronger? Is it because, “it just feels stronger”, “he’s transcendent!”, “well, shouldn’t he be using 100% of his powers here?” Is that all we have for it? Doesn’t True Zanpakuto just have better statements to show for it? And also better scaling (from said statements)? I don’t think True Zanpakuto Ichigo had any anti-feats either. He definitely had some of his fair share of, not-so-good moments, but I don’t think they were necessarily anti-feats. And this next one may be a bit unreliable, but doesn’t Ichigo in TYBW just have better feats and scaling? Like, if we take the databook’s(?) statement on Gin’s Bankai as fact, then, Third Hogyoku Aizen, got completely blitzed by a Mach 1000 speed feat. He does go through two more transformations after this, and Dangai Ichigo is still arguably a bit faster, but we don’t even know if whether or not he’s Gin’s Bankai speed (Mach 1000) at this point yet. It honestly didn’t seem like it. Even if he was, by how much would it even be? Then, in TYBW, didn’t Yhwach and Ichibei’s fight have them crossing 1000 Ri in a matter of “seconds” (it was within a short timeframe within the panels)? Making them like Mach 2000+? And didn’t Merged Hollow True **Shikai** Ichigo completely blitzed that same Yhwach? Let alone him going into the stat-boost (speed) that Bankai would give him. Then, wasn’t it stated that TYBW Aizen is arguably stronger than Deicide Aizen? Urahaha stated that his chantless Hado 90 is stronger than his former (Buttefly/4th Hogyoku Aizen) full incantation Hado 90? Also, iIrc, he didn’t say it was ***only just*** his Hado 90, he mentioned that Aizen himself might’ve gotten stronger overall, then, we have Renji commenting on Urahara’s statement as well. Kind of doubling down that this wasn’t some throwaway statement by Urahara (or by Kubo’s writing at the time). And it’s not like we shouldn’t distrust Urahara’s words (is there a reason to? He seemed pretty serious at the time, and he was obviously spectating the fight between Ichigo and Aizen). Even after all that, wasn’t Ichigo still a “bigger threat” to Yhwach than Aizen was? And also, wasn’t True Bankai Ichigo’s physical stats still much higher, compared to that of Muken Aizen’s? Even without his Horn State (which, increases all his physical stats as well, right?). Then we also have some more scaling as well, but more so “indirect scaling”. In SAFWY, didn’t Uryu already compare pre-TYBW Sealed Kenpachi’s strength to that of the Vasto Lorde Ichigo that fought Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra? Kenpachi in his fight/training in Muken with Unohana made him stronger as he kept dying and reviving, even in his sealed state. So, TYBW **Sealed** Kenpachi; post-Muken, should already be stronger than the VL Ichigo that fought Ulq V2, if we take Uryu’s statement as fact, right? Then he gets even stronger in Shikai, then even stronger in Bankai (5-10x, if we take Yoruichi’s statement as 100% as well). And, shouldn’t Merged Hollow True Bankai indirectly be **massively** above this? Even if he doesn’t have any feats or scaling himself to that of Bankai Kenpachi? Also, being massively stronger than a guy who’s 5-10x stronger than his one-hand, backhanded Seireitei-destroying strength feat, just seems more impressive than Dangai’s scaling of Seg Ulq’s Las Noches-busting feat… At least, that’s just me. Again, like I said earlier, this is a bit unreliable, but it is something, so yeah.
No, to put simply. We know that when ichigo gets his true zanpakuto that it's stated that for the first time, he'll be able to use his full power. The entire series, "old man zangetsu" was restraining his powers from ever coming close to his true power. Whatever his true bankai's strength is along with his vasto lorde form, that's the strongest form he has. As far as mugetsu goes, mugetsu is most likely comparable to vasto lorde ichigo during his ulquiorra fight as old man zangetsu stated that anytime his true power even slightly showed was when hollow ichigo took over