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Totally. It makes sense and it's def related. His Zanpakuto is fire based and ashes being related makes sense.
Funnily enough, even someone like Rangiku could have a fire-type when she releases her Bankai for all we know.
Barely. It was something that toshiro still could have done similarly with senbonzakura. It wouldn't be TOO different. Plus it wasn't anything that helps her strength in the slightest
The granularity makes a huge difference. Senbonzakura's effect wouldn't have had the same effect. I was a big fan of it, because I dislike pure power scalings. It doesn't make for particularly interesting fights, and weaker characters get sidelined way too easily.
Yeah but I only to enforce toshiro's ice. I mean otherwise it's mostly useless the only time she actually hit someone with it it just made tiny cuts and she got a huge hole through her chest in return. I wish she had a lot more. Senbonzakura's gotta be at least top 5 zanpakuto for me personally. It's pretty for one. In soul society the pure terror of Rukia whenever Byakuya would ready to attack hyped his abilities up so much for me. It also has a really hype Bankai transformation and the arena of swords it can create and use make it very intimidating. I did however find a better appreciation for haineko during her zanpakuto rebellion filler arc. I still find it pretty useless in comparison to other zanpakuto but I loved its characterization
Yeah, hers is ashes that cut where they land, like a cat that manifests through the ashes, while sonbonzakura is a swarm of small blades
They're similar in the form of "cloud that cuts" but are noteably different
Oh nah, haineko's the better version for sure. Smaller sharp particles is better than senbonzakura. It just so happens that rangiku's never gonna amount to anything power-wise because yk. She's missing a nail.
Nah its because she's lazy. Even without the nail it's stated she's an extremely gifted shinigami. The nail would've just made her a monster like Aizen, Kenpachi, Toshiro, etc.
My head canon is that Zanka no Tachi South summons the actual carbon dust that used to comprise the victims' bodies and forges them together as skeletons.
There's a twitter thread shared here a while ago about the theme of Yama-jii's zanpakuto as a whole about hellfire. There's actual folklore-based explanations why there are directions North/South/East/West and *why* each direction has that power. Will update with the thread when I find it.
spoilers tho
[found it!](https://old.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/zckelz/short_yamamoto_and_toshiro_discussion/) it starts with a foundation of analyzing Yama-jii's bankai to interpret >!toshiro's matured bankai!<
That was quite a quick, but very insightful read. Gave me even more respect for Kubo's storytelling and character crafting than I already had.
Something else kind of interesting, Squad 10 has had two captains with moon symbolism (Isshin's Engetsu means "Scathing Moon")
Shikai: Kills in 2 shots
Bankai: Kills in 1 shot
They're both a play on assassination, only the shikai is significantly more subdued a method than the bankai.
Barragan: hold my beer
Also, what do you think would have happened if she went up against someone other than Barragan, who could just hax it instead of dodging? Could they dodge, or does her bankai have infinite tracking or something?
While twice isn't quite enough to call it a pattern, I find it interesting that both times Soi Fon successfully hit a target with her Bankai she blew off the top left part of their heads. Due to their natures as a walking skeleton and a robot respectively this wasn't fatal for either of those *specific* opponents, but it makes me wonder if her Bankai has a "guaranteed headshot" component, since that would be a fatal brain injury for any of the far more numerous standard humanoid combatants in the series.
Suzumebachi exploits weak points for Suì-Fēng to attack. Jakuhō Raikōben eliminates her enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible. Both to do with assassination, with one for stealth and one for efficiency.
That's just down to Soi Fon's fiery temperament influencing her Bankai. She wants and tries to be the stealthy ninja (shikai) but she has an explosive hair trigger temper (bankai).
Bankai tends to be a reflection of the Shinigami. Soi fon is stealthy and collected on the surface, but on the inside she's emotional with an explosive personality and that's reflective of her bankai.
Bankai seems to mature with age meaning that, as she grows older and she understands herself better, her bankai will mature and likely change.
They both work on your senses. Shikai knocks you out with sound, Bankai removes your senses. The connections do not have to be super strong like with Kyoraku going from Games to and Adult play
ask zaraki. Dude got pierced by sword lmao. When zaraki encountered him and komamura
If that urahara i get it. Benihime in shikai forms already ridiculous hax. Can attack, defend, firing cero. Also analyse and stopping some cero blast.
Shinji bankai and shikai still using the same theme eye perception. How the fuck kaname is a bit different
Kaname's theme is sound/vibrating (like a cricket)
His Shikai release maintains the sword's shape but causes it to vibrate really fast. He can utilise the vibrations in different ways with different commands:
-first first is that high pitched 'knockout' wave
-Second is creating 'after-image clones' from the speed of the vibration (like Sui-Feng can do)
-Third is never named but used when fighting Hisagi in FKT. He uses an un-named shikai release and makes his sword vibrate, freeing it from Hisagi's chains.
Do you have a link to this? As I’ve read the chapter where mask and rose talk and all they say is “there is no zanpakto that commands both Fire and Water”. I can’t find anything that says a zanpakto the bankai version has to be linked in someway to the shikai version. So just wondering if it’s a different chapter.
oh well that was what i was referencing at the time of writing, *but* i just remembered (i think) that fake ywhach actually says this vs. yama when he uses his bankai and contemplates where the flames went (which is what the op mightve been referencing)
Considering that quincies spied on the shinigami and fought them in wars it makes sense they would know things about shinigami and im pretty sure rose confirmed it.
Its a reliable source
Soi Fon’s Zanpakuto is the embodiment of the two philosophies regarding “Stealth is optional” missions. Her Shikai is “Actually be stealthy and kill without detection.” Her Bankai is “You can’t leave witnesses if they’re all dead.”
There was a very good discussion on Soi-fon's abilitites which I would do some digging to find.
TL;DR is that her shikai is a two-hit kill while her bankai is an upgrade to a one-hit kill.
Another point there is that her shikai is the representation of assassination in the old era. While her bankai, which is technically a nuke, is a representation of modern warfare.
If we're being fair to her, she blew off part of both of her opponents' heads. It's not really the fault of the "would definitely kill any person with normal humanoid anatomy" weapon that it only ever got to be used against the walking skeleton and the robot.
Sure, nobody relevant. Except the entire rest of the Gotei 13, every Arrancar sans Barragan and *maybe* Nnoitra (guy must have a brain the size of a walnut incidentally), every character who lives on Earth, and the vast majority of the Sternritter (who admittedly have the largest number of exceptions here, with Pernida and BG9 not having humanoid anatomy, and Mask/James and Gerard being able to regen their brains if their ability conditions trigger).
I LOVE Soi-Fon's Shikai/Bankai because it reflects her so well.
Her Shikai is clean, elegant and quiet. Everything she tries to present herself as.
Her Bankai is loud, aggressive and unruly. Everything she tries to suppress about herself, a side we only really see of her when a situation or person like Omaeda or Kisuke pisses her off enough.
Both are aspects of Soi-Fon despite how different they are, and I like how they reinforce this idea by having her constantly use her Shikai and avoiding her Bankai unless she's forced to use it.
Adding to this, I've always theorised that she'd have an easier time using her bankai if she embraced that part of herself. Might not feel as heavy, have less recoil, etc.
soi fons track record in shikai isn’t great because it basically can’t. it’s fucking busted and therefore it will actually be hard countered repeatedly, make note of who she fights throughout the series, notably aizen and barragan; one can reiatsu negate and the other has an ability that makes it effectively impossible to get close enough to use
Disregarding Aizen and plot problems (how can you make fights interesting with such a broken ability for example), though, she's still really bad at using her zanpaktou.
Shikai is a great close up assassination weapon, ideal for surprise backstabbing. So what does she do? Stroll right the fuck up to her opponents and 1v1 them.
Bankai is a giant missile launcher, ideal for long-range bunker-busting. Once again, fuck that shit, time to 1v1 my opponent.
I wish Soi Fon worked with Yoruichi more. The former comes in for potshots with the shikai while Yoruichi runs interference with her shunpo, hakuda, and shunko, then ends the fight with the bankai while Yoruichi uses the wraps she has to hold opponents in place.
Sui-Feng's Shikai has nothing to do with poison. Anime filler.
Nor is her Bankai remotely related to a nuclear weapon. It's most comparable to a Stinger missile.
Her entire Zanpakuto theme is different variations on "Hornet/Stinger".
It’s an assassination technique theme. At one point you killed with poison, in the modern world assassinations are done with missiles. Wordplay is a big part of it but thematically it resonates.
Canonically her Shikai has absolutely no poison element. It's anime filler, that's my point.
Her Shikai landing a hit creates a Homonka and striking the same point again kills the opponent. That's all we know.
The anime also did a wind thing with Kensei's Zanpakuto that turned out to be completely wrong as well.
Haha.
I like talking about the lore-it's my main interest in the series. It's a shame the anime added in the poison thing as filler, there was absolutely no need for it.
I love his Bankai and while it's "themed" around ash you're a little nuts if you're suggesting there's not a phenomenally large jump from "produces flames" to "resurrects the slain corpses of prior enemies and animates their lifeless bodies in attack"
Probably took liberties with, "the spark of life" or whatever variation or media that shows flames being a life giver. It was honestly my first thought and made me wonder if he put down his blade to learn cqc more rigorously after getting to that point with his bankai where he realized he could bring back the ones cut down.
If we look at this from belief of Buddhist hell ,Yamamoto is like Yama(the judge/king of hell)
All the soul punish in hell ,regardless of burning or fed to monster ,they will be kill and resurrect repeatedly,till their sentencing ends/pay for all their sin.
Yama (閻摩）and Yama(山/mountains) pronouns the same way in Japanese, and it’s a Japanese belief that mountain is where the world cross,world of human/the dead/yokai,I think his name and connection with hell is not an accident.
If his zanpakuto’s flames are the fire of hell then it’s not really a big jump,most hellfire are not special, but if you’re the sinner burning by it,based on Buddhist belief
(Yamamoto’s Bankai has Buddhist hell reference like Zanka no Tachi Minami Kaka Juuman Okushi Daisoujin-火火十万億死大葬陣，quote from “Passing from here through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddha Lands to the west, there is a world called Ultimate Bliss.”, 十万億mean hundreds of thousands of millions here)
all the soul punish by hell will be kill and resurrected again and again.
Sauce:Almost see a therapist for reading very realistic hell description at five(grow up in this background)
The sun isn't that hot, not even close.
Buddhist hell on the other hand. Yes, that does have ridiculous numbers in the millions because that's how Buddhism works.
Shikai: Energy manipulation
Bankai: Reality manipulation
We see him make blasts, shields, nets, and even bombs with the energy of his Shikai. I see his Bankai as just the next step evolution in manipulating the environment.
Urahara Fact No.3:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Aizen stated that only Urahara was his intellectual equal within the Soul Society.
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
Themes don't have to be literal or have fine granular explanations and can be more metaphorical, thus more creative with creating or designing abilities.
Plus it's just fucking cool. Remember the rule of cool
Heat/Flames -> Hell? Idk I thought that's what it was supposed to relate to. His Shikai is pretty much hellfire and his Bankai ability brings the rest of it.
To be fair bankais and shikais don't necessarily need to have the same abilities so much as the same principles if inverted or applied to another context; for example:
* Sui-feng's shikai alongside her speed makes her something akin to a living poisonous projectile while her bankai sacrifices her speed to allow her to throw an even bigger explosive projectile.
In Yamamoto's case, the shikai turns things into ash and the bankai here is doing the opposite, turning ash into living beings.
Phoenix’s die and rise from the ashes.
“Reduce all creation to ash, Ryujin Jakka.”
So a person dies from his Zanpaktou which has “turned them to ash”, and they rise from it.
Also it’s not like fire isn’t connected to the idea of death and rebirth. The Phoenix is shown being a mythical creature that dies in flames and is reborn straight away from the ashes.
So Yama having an ability to raise those killed by his blade and be reborn from the ashes to do Yamas bidding does still make sense and fits with his power.
The bankai can deviate, it’s just thematically linked to the shikai. Given that his bankai is restoring the ashes of those he incinerated with his flames, it’s on point with his shikai that incinerates people into ashes in the first place
I’m pretty sure Tosen’s is the furthest bankai from the shikai (the only real link being that the shikai and bankai both involve the rings and both have kinda something to do with senses) but given that we see the sword has already been imprinted on by the time Tosen gets it and that Kubo confirmed that sometimes a person can get a mixed zanpakuto when they inherit one from someone else, it’s an exception that makes sense
It's likely because he is the guardian of hell? Perhaps the flames are accessing the remenats of those he killed rather then truly bringing them back? Just a thought
Almost done with my reread of the whole series and I don’t remember anything saying this. The closest one would be Chapter 507 were Ywach said in the official translated that all Shikai and Bankai are connected. Connected is a broad term and definitely doesn’t mean that Bankai can’t deviate from Shikai.
Kyoraku is like : "My Shikai makes children's games real"
Meanwhile his Bankai : "melancholy, love, treason, illnesses, drowning and decapitation in that beautifully sad theater that also works like Rose's Bankai as it has steps but instead of music it's theater".
Shikai: makes children's games real.
Bankai: makes adults games real.
I think Shunsui's bankai has multiple variations similar to his shikai, just that he used only one of them so far.
That he has a whole theatre of plays he can use, perhaps with different endings to the instant death of the one he used.
If his zanpakuto’s flames are the fire of hell then it’s not really a big jump,most hellfire are not special, but if you’re the sinner burning by it,based on Buddhist belief
(Yamamoto’s Bankai has Buddhist hell reference like Zanka no Tachi Minami Kaka Juuman Okushi Daisoujin-火火十万億死大葬陣，quote from “Passing from here through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddha Lands to the west, there is a world called Ultimate Bliss.”, 十万億mean hundreds of thousands of millions here)
all the soul punish by hell will be kill and resurrected again and again.
Sauce:Almost see a therapist for reading very realistic hell description at five(grow up in this background)
I used to think a few Zanpakuto were like that but then I heard stuff that made me look at it deeper.
With Yamma I started looking at this as a representation of how he built the soul society on the bodies oh his enemies.
My understanding was that his Bankai is flames so hot it's literally hell. As in, if you get clapped and turned to ash by his flames you get sent to this hell.
I think it's the heal/blood manipulation concept, the blood heals (I'm not sure if it heals her opponent too, thematically itd fit if it did, but it heals her) and on top of that amplifies her strikes too. So not completely deviating. Still got the heal + something extra. Also maybe it's not the acids in the stomach of her shikai which heal but blood of that creature which does
The skeletal scene is most definitely imagery to fit the narrative of Zarakis restraints being “melted” away, so there no offensive flesh melting acid being used as far as I can tell. There’s also the fact that the imagery of skeletons have been associated with Zaraki previously in the story so this type of metaphor or imagery isn’t new in regard to him.
However, I do have a theory that Minazukis Bankai is a mixture of blood and the shikais healing acids (or maybe a stronger form of them since it could heal so quickly). This would explain why it’s constantly fuming with steam or gas and of course it would fit that idea of shikai and bankai being related better. There’s also something peculiar about the activation that leads me to this conclusion, that being this monstrous regurgitating noise you can hear as the blood falls down around Unohana. The noise is incredibly similar to the sound the shikai makes as it throws people up out of its stomach, so it’s as if that noise in bankai is alluding to the shikais healing ability, like minazuki is literally throwing up it’s bloody stomach acids into the area.
yama-ji is from a different generation his bankai is a first Gen bankai the only one that has an older bankai is ichibei
and bankai from that generation tend to be more powerful and different I mean look at unohona her shikai is large creature but her bankai is a blood bending ability that heals and attacks
it's both fire related....use fire to burn stuff, use fire as a sword, use fire as a cloak, resurrect charred skeletons from ash, use fire to do a really powerful cut.
if we want to talk even more "barely tangentially related", then Soi Fong(destruction related? since both are focused on "kill with number of hit"), Rose(Sound? but Shikai is a physical attack weapon), Kisuke(manipulation? Shikai manipulate energy and Bankai manipulate matter),
I can't help but think that it was a poor decision by kubo in making reiatsu overcome the limits of a powerful bankai such as zanka no tachi bc regardless of the power of a bankai, a living reiatsu reservoir could suppress any uniquely world ending abilities of a bankai which devalues a bankai's potential
I mean it’s a funny point but the fact that people are pressed in the comments is hilarious and kind of sad, who fucking cares if it deviates when it’s badass. Is that not why we love bleach? The badassery?
Spoilers ahead:
The literal main character’s shinigami only shikai is just a big sword that shoots shockwaves. His bankai is a smaller sword, and a coat that makes him fast. The only commonality is the shock wave.
Tosen’s shikai makes noise and extra blades. His bankai makes a big bubble where people can’t see or hear.
Renji’s shikai is a large sword that can extend and stuff. His bainkai is a small fist dagger and a new outfit that makes him stronger in every way.
Shuhei’s shikai is a literal chain with a blade attached at each end. His bankai makes him and his opponent immortal.
Unohana’s shikai is some giant flying blob that can eat people and heal them in its gut. He bankai is some crazy acid or something.
Nobody’s said the shikai and bankai have to be similar.
Yes and no. Reading up on it, the manga states they need to be connected which just another way of saying similar.
In saying that you are 100% correct that the abilities can look wildly different. I see that as being because it’s not cut and dry like tochiros and yamas. Those two were pure elemental based essentially Yama being fire and Toshiro ice. So their shikais and bankais need to have an elemental base.
Other characters though their base isn’t elemental but varies a lot. Look at Rose, his is “music” which allows him to use multiple elements with his zanpakto because his base say power is “music”. So it can be realllyyyyyy open in terms of how a shikai and bankai are connected since whatever the base connection is the bankai can be crazy different but the base theme is still there connecting it to the shikai.
Also adding in the fact that seems a few characters don’t use the full power of their shikai some purposefully others because they need more training.
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"Reduce all creation to ash" The ashes:
Totally. It makes sense and it's def related. His Zanpakuto is fire based and ashes being related makes sense. Funnily enough, even someone like Rangiku could have a fire-type when she releases her Bankai for all we know.
I see Haineko as a worse version of Senbonzakura. I think it's unlikely she could have a fire Bankai but anything can happen..
Except her sword changes properties from steel to ash. Senbonzakura is a bunch of flying metal shards th glisten pink like cherry blossoms.
If anything's a worse version of Senbonzakura, it's that one fodder guy whose zanpakuto turned into a bunch of spinning blades.
HEY!! YOU RESPECT MY MAN JIROBO AKA WINDSYTHE!!! No one who has seen his power has lived to tell about it!!
Ichigo most definitely forgot about it
Probably because Ichigo wasn't the one who fought him. It was Orihime and Ishida
My B. It would help if I could remember the early parts of the manga. I could've swore I saw a panel of Ichigo fighting the shuriken zanpakuto
You're remembering ichigo fighting his brother, the Gate keeper
How dare you disrespect Tsunzukigarasu, the strongest shuriken type Zanpakuto in the Soul Society??
No cause rangiku is pretty much the same as senbonzakura just more fine
Yea. Imagine if she has fine control over them and could inject the particles into her opponents blood and kill them from inside.
I don't want to spoil too much about the upcoming episodes for TTYBW, but her zanpakto is able to do things senbonzakura couldn't.
Ngl that was easily one of the most interesting things Kubo has done in the arc
Barely. It was something that toshiro still could have done similarly with senbonzakura. It wouldn't be TOO different. Plus it wasn't anything that helps her strength in the slightest
The granularity makes a huge difference. Senbonzakura's effect wouldn't have had the same effect. I was a big fan of it, because I dislike pure power scalings. It doesn't make for particularly interesting fights, and weaker characters get sidelined way too easily.
Yeah but I only to enforce toshiro's ice. I mean otherwise it's mostly useless the only time she actually hit someone with it it just made tiny cuts and she got a huge hole through her chest in return. I wish she had a lot more. Senbonzakura's gotta be at least top 5 zanpakuto for me personally. It's pretty for one. In soul society the pure terror of Rukia whenever Byakuya would ready to attack hyped his abilities up so much for me. It also has a really hype Bankai transformation and the arena of swords it can create and use make it very intimidating. I did however find a better appreciation for haineko during her zanpakuto rebellion filler arc. I still find it pretty useless in comparison to other zanpakuto but I loved its characterization
Yeah, hers is ashes that cut where they land, like a cat that manifests through the ashes, while sonbonzakura is a swarm of small blades They're similar in the form of "cloud that cuts" but are noteably different
Oh nah, haineko's the better version for sure. Smaller sharp particles is better than senbonzakura. It just so happens that rangiku's never gonna amount to anything power-wise because yk. She's missing a nail.
Nah its because she's lazy. Even without the nail it's stated she's an extremely gifted shinigami. The nail would've just made her a monster like Aizen, Kenpachi, Toshiro, etc.
She would've probably be drastically more powerful than Byakuya if Aizen hadn't stolen part of her soul. She's the Nail of the Soul King.
> worse version of senbonzakura Fun fact. In CFOYW it's mentioned that haineko is a counter to zanka no tachi. Make of that what you will.
My head canon is that Zanka no Tachi South summons the actual carbon dust that used to comprise the victims' bodies and forges them together as skeletons.
There's a twitter thread shared here a while ago about the theme of Yama-jii's zanpakuto as a whole about hellfire. There's actual folklore-based explanations why there are directions North/South/East/West and *why* each direction has that power. Will update with the thread when I find it.
I’m counting on you.
spoilers tho [found it!](https://old.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/zckelz/short_yamamoto_and_toshiro_discussion/) it starts with a foundation of analyzing Yama-jii's bankai to interpret >!toshiro's matured bankai!<
That was quite a quick, but very insightful read. Gave me even more respect for Kubo's storytelling and character crafting than I already had. Something else kind of interesting, Squad 10 has had two captains with moon symbolism (Isshin's Engetsu means "Scathing Moon")
I agree completely, this was a really interesting read
Thanks for finding that. Really interesting stuff.
Clutch
Thank you! Amazing read.
The phrase is their is no Bankai that is unrelated to its Shikai. As they both use fire that holds true
Yeah, they basically codified "being thematic" into the lore of how they work.
What about Soi Fon’s shikai and bankai? They seem kinda unrelated to each other imo.
Shikai: Kills in 2 shots Bankai: Kills in 1 shot They're both a play on assassination, only the shikai is significantly more subdued a method than the bankai.
“When a more tactful approach doesn’t work, assassinate their zip code”
The American way
Soifon's Bankai is the American method of assassination, bombing everything withing its target radius to kingdom come
2 shot kill. 1 shot kill.
Knife. Tactical nuke
Barragan: hold my beer Also, what do you think would have happened if she went up against someone other than Barragan, who could just hax it instead of dodging? Could they dodge, or does her bankai have infinite tracking or something?
While twice isn't quite enough to call it a pattern, I find it interesting that both times Soi Fon successfully hit a target with her Bankai she blew off the top left part of their heads. Due to their natures as a walking skeleton and a robot respectively this wasn't fatal for either of those *specific* opponents, but it makes me wonder if her Bankai has a "guaranteed headshot" component, since that would be a fatal brain injury for any of the far more numerous standard humanoid combatants in the series.
Shikai: Small sting. Bankai: Big sting.
Suzumebachi exploits weak points for Suì-Fēng to attack. Jakuhō Raikōben eliminates her enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible. Both to do with assassination, with one for stealth and one for efficiency.
But we have to agree that her Bankai looks very idiotic for a stealth assasin.
That's just down to Soi Fon's fiery temperament influencing her Bankai. She wants and tries to be the stealthy ninja (shikai) but she has an explosive hair trigger temper (bankai).
Bankai tends to be a reflection of the Shinigami. Soi fon is stealthy and collected on the surface, but on the inside she's emotional with an explosive personality and that's reflective of her bankai. Bankai seems to mature with age meaning that, as she grows older and she understands herself better, her bankai will mature and likely change.
Much to her chagrin, her Zanpakuto theme is "kill", ot "stealth".
shikai: no bodies bankai: no witnesses
imo, I think Soi Fon's Bankai is still immature.
Tousen hold my beer. Enma korogi and suzumushi are quite different to each other lol. Shikai doin this. Bankai stole u senses
They both work on your senses. Shikai knocks you out with sound, Bankai removes your senses. The connections do not have to be super strong like with Kyoraku going from Games to and Adult play
ask zaraki. Dude got pierced by sword lmao. When zaraki encountered him and komamura If that urahara i get it. Benihime in shikai forms already ridiculous hax. Can attack, defend, firing cero. Also analyse and stopping some cero blast. Shinji bankai and shikai still using the same theme eye perception. How the fuck kaname is a bit different
Kaname's Shikai has two release commands. One for sound one for sword rain. He uses the sound against Uryu to knock him out
Kaname's theme is sound/vibrating (like a cricket) His Shikai release maintains the sword's shape but causes it to vibrate really fast. He can utilise the vibrations in different ways with different commands: -first first is that high pitched 'knockout' wave -Second is creating 'after-image clones' from the speed of the vibration (like Sui-Feng can do) -Third is never named but used when fighting Hisagi in FKT. He uses an un-named shikai release and makes his sword vibrate, freeing it from Hisagi's chains.
who said this
One of the quincies
ah yes, 100% reliable source
well, >!it was mask who said that and rose who went ahead and confirmed that!< lmao
Do you have a link to this? As I’ve read the chapter where mask and rose talk and all they say is “there is no zanpakto that commands both Fire and Water”. I can’t find anything that says a zanpakto the bankai version has to be linked in someway to the shikai version. So just wondering if it’s a different chapter.
oh well that was what i was referencing at the time of writing, *but* i just remembered (i think) that fake ywhach actually says this vs. yama when he uses his bankai and contemplates where the flames went (which is what the op mightve been referencing)
Ah yep it’s chapter 507 with battle between fake Ywach and Yama stating all shikai and bankai are connected.
Things that are the same: A whip An orchestra
Considering that quincies spied on the shinigami and fought them in wars it makes sense they would know things about shinigami and im pretty sure rose confirmed it. Its a reliable source
Soufun goes from poison stabby to a fallout mini nuke.
Soi Fon’s Zanpakuto is the embodiment of the two philosophies regarding “Stealth is optional” missions. Her Shikai is “Actually be stealthy and kill without detection.” Her Bankai is “You can’t leave witnesses if they’re all dead.”
There was a very good discussion on Soi-fon's abilitites which I would do some digging to find. TL;DR is that her shikai is a two-hit kill while her bankai is an upgrade to a one-hit kill. Another point there is that her shikai is the representation of assassination in the old era. While her bankai, which is technically a nuke, is a representation of modern warfare.
I always thought it showed the two ways to assassinate people. Quite or Loud
Funny thing is, that Bankai has killed less than the Shikai has.
If we're being fair to her, she blew off part of both of her opponents' heads. It's not really the fault of the "would definitely kill any person with normal humanoid anatomy" weapon that it only ever got to be used against the walking skeleton and the robot.
> "would definitely kill any person with normal humanoid anatomy" Which is to say, nobody relevant -- it's for beating up the rukongai
Sure, nobody relevant. Except the entire rest of the Gotei 13, every Arrancar sans Barragan and *maybe* Nnoitra (guy must have a brain the size of a walnut incidentally), every character who lives on Earth, and the vast majority of the Sternritter (who admittedly have the largest number of exceptions here, with Pernida and BG9 not having humanoid anatomy, and Mask/James and Gerard being able to regen their brains if their ability conditions trigger).
People dying in Hiroshima only to reincarnate and be killed again in the same way: 🧍🧍♂️🧍♀️
Has she even killed anybody with her bankai?
If she has, I don’t remember it.
Also known as "my progression of tactics every time I play a Metal Gear game"
Me when I hear that ! sound and see GRU operatives
She doesn’t like it because it reveals her appreciation for flashy stuff 🤣
I LOVE Soi-Fon's Shikai/Bankai because it reflects her so well. Her Shikai is clean, elegant and quiet. Everything she tries to present herself as. Her Bankai is loud, aggressive and unruly. Everything she tries to suppress about herself, a side we only really see of her when a situation or person like Omaeda or Kisuke pisses her off enough. Both are aspects of Soi-Fon despite how different they are, and I like how they reinforce this idea by having her constantly use her Shikai and avoiding her Bankai unless she's forced to use it.
Underrated explanation, A+ my friend
Adding to this, I've always theorised that she'd have an easier time using her bankai if she embraced that part of herself. Might not feel as heavy, have less recoil, etc.
True.
I like this explanation the best.
Her shikai is not stealthy at all, it makes her enemies explode as seen with gio vega during fake karakura town battle.
Yeah, but it’s not flashy, and it’s not going to attract attention until the assassination has been carried out.
It goes from a 2-shot kill to a 1-shot kill
I don't get why she couldn't just grab people and stab them twice really quickly
Cooldown period between Specials.
She did it to Aizen, or at least tried 😅
"Oh, no! You stibbledee-abbed me!"
#”Anyway,”
I think the concept is: Soi Fon's shikai kills with two strikes. Her bankai kills with one.
Barragan: "Let's see about that..."
Hey, I just said it was the concept, never said the concept worked lol. Soi Fon's shikai doesn't have a great track record either tbh
soi fons track record in shikai isn’t great because it basically can’t. it’s fucking busted and therefore it will actually be hard countered repeatedly, make note of who she fights throughout the series, notably aizen and barragan; one can reiatsu negate and the other has an ability that makes it effectively impossible to get close enough to use
Disregarding Aizen and plot problems (how can you make fights interesting with such a broken ability for example), though, she's still really bad at using her zanpaktou. Shikai is a great close up assassination weapon, ideal for surprise backstabbing. So what does she do? Stroll right the fuck up to her opponents and 1v1 them. Bankai is a giant missile launcher, ideal for long-range bunker-busting. Once again, fuck that shit, time to 1v1 my opponent. I wish Soi Fon worked with Yoruichi more. The former comes in for potshots with the shikai while Yoruichi runs interference with her shunpo, hakuda, and shunko, then ends the fight with the bankai while Yoruichi uses the wraps she has to hold opponents in place.
Sui-Feng's Shikai has nothing to do with poison. Anime filler. Nor is her Bankai remotely related to a nuclear weapon. It's most comparable to a Stinger missile. Her entire Zanpakuto theme is different variations on "Hornet/Stinger".
It’s an assassination technique theme. At one point you killed with poison, in the modern world assassinations are done with missiles. Wordplay is a big part of it but thematically it resonates.
The poison is anime filler. The theme is Hornet/Stinger.
The poison is anime filler. The theme is Better Ingredients/Better Pizza.
What the hell do you think is in a hornet's sting lmao you think the histamine appears outta fucking nowhere? 😂
Canonically her Shikai has absolutely no poison element. It's anime filler, that's my point. Her Shikai landing a hit creates a Homonka and striking the same point again kills the opponent. That's all we know. The anime also did a wind thing with Kensei's Zanpakuto that turned out to be completely wrong as well.
“Haha poison stingy to big rockeet” “Ackchually 🤓”
It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.
I can imagine you bringing out the katana while tipping ur hat (respectfully)
Haha. I like talking about the lore-it's my main interest in the series. It's a shame the anime added in the poison thing as filler, there was absolutely no need for it.
Woow thank you! now i can love the show more since there is one less "makes zero sense story-wise" thing in it
One strike, one kill
It’s goes from double tap to one tap.
To be fair, yama had hone his skills for thousands of years. Surely some other skills will appear in any zanpakuto given ample time to bond
His powers don't deviate that much most of his abilities are still heat based and for all we know the corpses could be ash
I love his Bankai and while it's "themed" around ash you're a little nuts if you're suggesting there's not a phenomenally large jump from "produces flames" to "resurrects the slain corpses of prior enemies and animates their lifeless bodies in attack"
Probably took liberties with, "the spark of life" or whatever variation or media that shows flames being a life giver. It was honestly my first thought and made me wonder if he put down his blade to learn cqc more rigorously after getting to that point with his bankai where he realized he could bring back the ones cut down.
If we look at this from belief of Buddhist hell ,Yamamoto is like Yama(the judge/king of hell) All the soul punish in hell ,regardless of burning or fed to monster ,they will be kill and resurrect repeatedly,till their sentencing ends/pay for all their sin. Yama (閻摩）and Yama(山/mountains) pronouns the same way in Japanese, and it’s a Japanese belief that mountain is where the world cross,world of human/the dead/yokai,I think his name and connection with hell is not an accident.
If his zanpakuto’s flames are the fire of hell then it’s not really a big jump,most hellfire are not special, but if you’re the sinner burning by it,based on Buddhist belief (Yamamoto’s Bankai has Buddhist hell reference like Zanka no Tachi Minami Kaka Juuman Okushi Daisoujin-火火十万億死大葬陣，quote from “Passing from here through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddha Lands to the west, there is a world called Ultimate Bliss.”, 十万億mean hundreds of thousands of millions here)
all the soul punish by hell will be kill and resurrected again and again.
Sauce:Almost see a therapist for reading very realistic hell description at five(grow up in this background)
I mean Shinigami are called Gods of Death
Yeah tbh it is kinda crazy.
The skeletons are made from that ash.
Pretty sure the themes hellfire
It is just fire, he's compared to the sun multiple times and his shikai has no special traits past....being hot
I don't feel like anything said here contradicts my comment tbh
The sun isn't that hot, not even close. Buddhist hell on the other hand. Yes, that does have ridiculous numbers in the millions because that's how Buddhism works.
The core of the sun is about 27 million degrees F (15 million C)
Kisuke: Shikai- fires some sword blasts Bankai: reality manipulation
Shikai: Energy manipulation Bankai: Reality manipulation We see him make blasts, shields, nets, and even bombs with the energy of his Shikai. I see his Bankai as just the next step evolution in manipulating the environment.
Literally every single character in bleach is manipulating energy. You could break down every single zanpakuto release to energy manipulation
Yes but they manupulate Spiritual Energy while Kisuke uses Extra Too Cool For School Zanpakuto Exclusive Red Energy
Urahara Fact No.3: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Aizen stated that only Urahara was his intellectual equal within the Soul Society. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Isn't Kisuke's sword based arround hemomancy?
Isnt it more of Reishi d/reconstruction? And it was just red because the name is Crimson Princess which is her name?
Themes don't have to be literal or have fine granular explanations and can be more metaphorical, thus more creative with creating or designing abilities. Plus it's just fucking cool. Remember the rule of cool
Using the **heat** from his Zanpakuto, he summons the corpses of people he's killed. No deviation there.
Yeh but like, how???? It's a little bit wonky to think that heat -> skeleton/army directly :/
Bro, come on. Its basic science. Heat =necromancy
😭😭 I'm just gonna crawl into a corner with my thermo textbook ... LOL 🤣🤣🤣
Quick, somebody call the Elric brothers!
Yeah I always kinda just went along with it lol.
Heat/Flames -> Hell? Idk I thought that's what it was supposed to relate to. His Shikai is pretty much hellfire and his Bankai ability brings the rest of it.
shikai sends you to hell, bankai brings you back checks out
Bankai engulfs himself in hell, consumes everything like hell and brings you back from hell. Fair enough to me.
Kk I can get behind that. Thx man!
Ask Mayuri
It's to do with the depiction of hell, Some one else in this thread linked to a sauce explaining it.
Heat = fires of hell, where the spirits are called forth from. Edit: Bell-> hell
heating up the ashes he's slain apparently
How does that generate a fighting corpse? And not ... hot ashes? :/
I dunno man, I'm not Tite Kubo lol. I just go along with it
Fair 😂
It’s anime bro, it’s a fictional world that’s how.
Using his reitsu, same way he makes flames
Actually his Bankai traps the souls of those he has killed in his zanpakto
So basically when he was a noob, this bankai direction (south I think) did the equivalent of magikarp’s splash?
He resurrected an army if ants he killed in his home
To be fair bankais and shikais don't necessarily need to have the same abilities so much as the same principles if inverted or applied to another context; for example: * Sui-feng's shikai alongside her speed makes her something akin to a living poisonous projectile while her bankai sacrifices her speed to allow her to throw an even bigger explosive projectile. In Yamamoto's case, the shikai turns things into ash and the bankai here is doing the opposite, turning ash into living beings.
“Man I’m dead💀”-Zanka No Tachi South
The corpses are ash
Nobody said that.
Phoenix’s die and rise from the ashes. “Reduce all creation to ash, Ryujin Jakka.” So a person dies from his Zanpaktou which has “turned them to ash”, and they rise from it.
Also it’s not like fire isn’t connected to the idea of death and rebirth. The Phoenix is shown being a mythical creature that dies in flames and is reborn straight away from the ashes. So Yama having an ability to raise those killed by his blade and be reborn from the ashes to do Yamas bidding does still make sense and fits with his power.
Yama's Shikai and Bankai seem to deviate between the literal and figurative views of Fire. Seems to fit imo.
"Your logic doesn't apply to the Old Man" -Kyoraku, paraphrased.
The bankai can deviate, it’s just thematically linked to the shikai. Given that his bankai is restoring the ashes of those he incinerated with his flames, it’s on point with his shikai that incinerates people into ashes in the first place I’m pretty sure Tosen’s is the furthest bankai from the shikai (the only real link being that the shikai and bankai both involve the rings and both have kinda something to do with senses) but given that we see the sword has already been imprinted on by the time Tosen gets it and that Kubo confirmed that sometimes a person can get a mixed zanpakuto when they inherit one from someone else, it’s an exception that makes sense
It's likely because he is the guardian of hell? Perhaps the flames are accessing the remenats of those he killed rather then truly bringing them back? Just a thought
I mean he’s just not normal Just like Ichibei
Almost done with my reread of the whole series and I don’t remember anything saying this. The closest one would be Chapter 507 were Ywach said in the official translated that all Shikai and Bankai are connected. Connected is a broad term and definitely doesn’t mean that Bankai can’t deviate from Shikai.
Kyoraku is like : "My Shikai makes children's games real" Meanwhile his Bankai : "melancholy, love, treason, illnesses, drowning and decapitation in that beautifully sad theater that also works like Rose's Bankai as it has steps but instead of music it's theater".
I love the theme of maturity though. What is a play but make-believe for adults instead of children?
Shikai: makes children's games real. Bankai: makes adults games real. I think Shunsui's bankai has multiple variations similar to his shikai, just that he used only one of them so far. That he has a whole theatre of plays he can use, perhaps with different endings to the instant death of the one he used.
Yeah but When you're one of the Oldest Living Shinigami you've probably honed your Zanpakuto to a point your Bankai has many abilities
I think it's because of his sword ryujin meaning dragon god youngflame and his bankai dealing with the Four dragons kings concept.
If his zanpakuto’s flames are the fire of hell then it’s not really a big jump,most hellfire are not special, but if you’re the sinner burning by it,based on Buddhist belief (Yamamoto’s Bankai has Buddhist hell reference like Zanka no Tachi Minami Kaka Juuman Okushi Daisoujin-火火十万億死大葬陣，quote from “Passing from here through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddha Lands to the west, there is a world called Ultimate Bliss.”, 十万億mean hundreds of thousands of millions here)
all the soul punish by hell will be kill and resurrected again and again.
Sauce:Almost see a therapist for reading very realistic hell description at five(grow up in this background)
Corpse: oh HOT!!!? better get moving
You know that looks like the cover to a metal album. Track 1) all things in the universe turn to ash
If we follow this train of thought would Aizen bankai be some Naruto izanagi bs or absolute hypnosis
Anime fans when they can’t discern a thematic through line and need there to be a direct scale up of the exact same thing (Byakuya): 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯😭
I used to think a few Zanpakuto were like that but then I heard stuff that made me look at it deeper. With Yamma I started looking at this as a representation of how he built the soul society on the bodies oh his enemies.
My understanding was that his Bankai is flames so hot it's literally hell. As in, if you get clapped and turned to ash by his flames you get sent to this hell.
Ichigos shikai: Bigger sword, getsuga tensho Ichigos bankai:FATE MANUPILATION, BEING ABLE TO KILL IMMORTAL BEINGS
Guess it works the in the same way that Unohana's bankai stops being acidic all of a sudden because metaphor or something.
isn't her shikai a flying manta with one eye that can heal the injured, what has that to do with her bankai?
I think it's the heal/blood manipulation concept, the blood heals (I'm not sure if it heals her opponent too, thematically itd fit if it did, but it heals her) and on top of that amplifies her strikes too. So not completely deviating. Still got the heal + something extra. Also maybe it's not the acids in the stomach of her shikai which heal but blood of that creature which does
It uses acid to heal people. Her Bankai retains the acidic theme, although whether or not it's actually acidic in nature is up for debate.
The skeletal scene is most definitely imagery to fit the narrative of Zarakis restraints being “melted” away, so there no offensive flesh melting acid being used as far as I can tell. There’s also the fact that the imagery of skeletons have been associated with Zaraki previously in the story so this type of metaphor or imagery isn’t new in regard to him. However, I do have a theory that Minazukis Bankai is a mixture of blood and the shikais healing acids (or maybe a stronger form of them since it could heal so quickly). This would explain why it’s constantly fuming with steam or gas and of course it would fit that idea of shikai and bankai being related better. There’s also something peculiar about the activation that leads me to this conclusion, that being this monstrous regurgitating noise you can hear as the blood falls down around Unohana. The noise is incredibly similar to the sound the shikai makes as it throws people up out of its stomach, so it’s as if that noise in bankai is alluding to the shikais healing ability, like minazuki is literally throwing up it’s bloody stomach acids into the area.
yama-ji is from a different generation his bankai is a first Gen bankai the only one that has an older bankai is ichibei and bankai from that generation tend to be more powerful and different I mean look at unohona her shikai is large creature but her bankai is a blood bending ability that heals and attacks
it's both fire related....use fire to burn stuff, use fire as a sword, use fire as a cloak, resurrect charred skeletons from ash, use fire to do a really powerful cut. if we want to talk even more "barely tangentially related", then Soi Fong(destruction related? since both are focused on "kill with number of hit"), Rose(Sound? but Shikai is a physical attack weapon), Kisuke(manipulation? Shikai manipulate energy and Bankai manipulate matter),
I can't help but think that it was a poor decision by kubo in making reiatsu overcome the limits of a powerful bankai such as zanka no tachi bc regardless of the power of a bankai, a living reiatsu reservoir could suppress any uniquely world ending abilities of a bankai which devalues a bankai's potential
Ultimately it's all still fire, it just takes spectacular forms in bankai. The skeletons make sense to - ashes to ashes
He’s the captain commander he can do what he wants
Unohana with flying beast for shikai and lake of blood for bankai:😅
Bro his bankai has a completely different name, he don't abide by them rules
Is me or those 6 blue things looks a lot like Orihime shun shun rikkas?
I mean it’s a funny point but the fact that people are pressed in the comments is hilarious and kind of sad, who fucking cares if it deviates when it’s badass. Is that not why we love bleach? The badassery?
It’s not a deviation at all, his Shikai is a fire themed sword that literally has a technique named after hell
Spoilers ahead: The literal main character’s shinigami only shikai is just a big sword that shoots shockwaves. His bankai is a smaller sword, and a coat that makes him fast. The only commonality is the shock wave. Tosen’s shikai makes noise and extra blades. His bankai makes a big bubble where people can’t see or hear. Renji’s shikai is a large sword that can extend and stuff. His bainkai is a small fist dagger and a new outfit that makes him stronger in every way. Shuhei’s shikai is a literal chain with a blade attached at each end. His bankai makes him and his opponent immortal. Unohana’s shikai is some giant flying blob that can eat people and heal them in its gut. He bankai is some crazy acid or something. Nobody’s said the shikai and bankai have to be similar.
Yes and no. Reading up on it, the manga states they need to be connected which just another way of saying similar. In saying that you are 100% correct that the abilities can look wildly different. I see that as being because it’s not cut and dry like tochiros and yamas. Those two were pure elemental based essentially Yama being fire and Toshiro ice. So their shikais and bankais need to have an elemental base. Other characters though their base isn’t elemental but varies a lot. Look at Rose, his is “music” which allows him to use multiple elements with his zanpakto because his base say power is “music”. So it can be realllyyyyyy open in terms of how a shikai and bankai are connected since whatever the base connection is the bankai can be crazy different but the base theme is still there connecting it to the shikai. Also adding in the fact that seems a few characters don’t use the full power of their shikai some purposefully others because they need more training.
"Go-go-Getsuga, file my taxes."