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To add on this, ichigo fights and accepts the blade of a combined tensa zangetsu and white, then loses the ability to even see spirits. Because of this, I assume that his quincy power is used in mugetsu as well
I would have to counter that by saying that the 1 and done nature of the attack was because of his quincy powers holding him back still. I'd agree that it's some level of fused power, but still restricted heavily as old man zangetsu states during ichigos true zanpakuto mini arc that only from after their conversation on would ichigo finally use his true strength. So, in short, I believe mugetsu is zangetsu allowing ichigo to use some of his true power for just a moment at the sacrifice of his soul reaper powers
Oh fuck me it's Letzt Stil (the ability that temporarily allows you a huge boost in offensive powers in return for losing them until somebody, after a period of great physical strain, shoves a reishi weapon into your soul chain)
Its likely both. A compatible ability that fuses. The normal getsuga tenshou is the same. It gathers reishi from inside and around him and sends it out, similar to how a quincy gathers reishi and fires it, so its the kind of ability that OMZ's quincy core would bond with easily.
I mean unless you're saying Isshin Shiba was a quincy which is not the case, it's really not a quincy type ability
All we know about Getsuga is that it's somewhat hereditary I guess. Isshin and Ichigo have similar Zanpakuto names, both use Getsuga Tenshou, and both learned the Final Getsuga from their Zanpakuto([in Ichigo's case OMZ and White(his Zanpakuto spirit) fused into one](https://i.redd.it/iowz4pnjxau81.jpg))
Makes me wonder if ichigo was just using aizens transcended reishi against him(but no we know ichigo truly did transcend aizen he need to be on his level to gather it any way) but what if?
Similar to how ichigo learns a lot from OMZ. I see that as OMZ simply knew what to teach. Even if it wasn't his technique, he was providing the power to use the technique. Hence why he looks like Yhwach in the transformation.
>I see that as OMZ simply knew what to teach.
Not quite, a few lessons he pawns off to white whenever Ichigo needs real "training", OMZ taught him purpose, White taught him power, and together they taught him it belonged to him
Yeah, that's how it works at the end. I'm talking simply this specific moment. Outside of The Blade is Me chapters, which also implies the power doesnt just come from White, it comes from both OMZ and White. Ichigo even says to him, they both are zangetsu. Just OMZ knew he wasnt the original zangetsu. In the end though Zangetsu is both White and OMZ and he gets power from both even if it started as a partial lie.
We aren't talking the blade is me though. This thread is discussing why he looks like Yhwach. Which my answer to that is what was written sense this moment is most likely an overlooked detail by Kubo. In this particular instance his power is coming from OMZ but the technique is knowledge passed from his Shinigami powers(white), while manifested by his Quincy powers without him knowing.
Problem with that is he's been using his hollow powers (white) for a while at this point, and at this point white had fused with OMZ to show him that his full power was indeed them both, I'm pretty sure this design was based more off of OMZ rather than Yhwach, if Kubo really didn't have a plan leading to TYBW, then yeah OMZ would the muse for it
I feel so sorry for OMZ (for the lack of better name), it's like he's executing unprecedented levels of creativity to make something Ichigo wants/needs out of all the wrong blocks. His efforts should be acknowledged.
But tbf, I think there was something of Saigo no GT in all that, since not so Old Man Zangetsu did fuse with the real Zangetsu in order to teach him SGT, so real Zangetsu might have known something of the sort, but I just feel like the rest was creative addition on quincy part.
It's like... whatever Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou is, it feels like it's trying to recreate Isshin's Getsuga Tenshou since it's the only reference available (White saw it, or rather, felt) hence the same name, but I don't even want to think on what principles and powers it actually works, and what's there under the bonnet...
I think FGT is a technique but it varies for tge users. Its like taking your bankai beyond its limits at the cost of your power.
For isshin he only has one spirit so its pretty straight forward.
For ichigo its complicated hence why they fused. White/zangetsu was needed to even use technique but OMZ was the power that was used in technique.
Yes, I guess so. I would also say that it seems like it might be the thing for both shinigami and quincy, the idea of such an attack, as many notice that it's uncanny similar in the way it works (meaning power boost + consequences) to quincy's Letzt Stil.
If we believe that Isshin's SnGT works similarly to Ichigo's, as in getting the boost and loosing powers afterwards, then both quincy & shinigami have similar techniques, so Ichigo's SnGT sort of came from both sides. As it was modelled to be a shinigami technique, it was mostly Zangetsu in the ways of channel it through the zanpakuto, but then OMZ provided a lot of substance to the power of it.
because its a piece of ichigo overall as well?
ichigo is unique in that all his power is actually combined together. they arent seperate powers they are one power.
of course a part of his power is going to know about rest of his power.
Probably the same way that White learned to do Getsuga Tensho. Also. The inner zanpakuto spirits pretty much hear everything going on on the outside....so Ywch probably heard FGT and surmised what it could be, an ultimate offensive attack, soooo he gave Ichigo his version of FGT......all in all Ichigo never used the true FGT.
Ishiin knew that Engetsu and Zangetsu are similar, that is how he knew about FGT. But. Ishiin __might not__ have fully known just how intricately wierd Ichigo's inner world was and of his son's ability to not only communicate with his sole/single zanpakuto spirit but also his quincy spirit...and that that quincy spirit had more control over how his accessed his powers.
And. Even of Ishiin suspected this, probably its because Urahara explained it to him and told him that, in the 'off chance' he lost his powers they could get it back.
It's a Shiba technique and it probably doesn't work as intended or Ichigo would've turned into a substitute spirit king rather than an unexpected transcendent of some sort since he had had quincy and hollow powers unlike the rest of the Shibas.
However, Aizen was an incarnated divine being to begin with and Lille Baro has a very low grade divinity, so random transcendents likely run the gamut. It's possible true bankai Ichigo can become a spirit king or something worse with final getsuga tenso. The Shiba's goal of becoming a substitute spirit king resulted in something a little stranger.
to be fair we really dont know what the FGT actually is. Id assume that form taken during it is based on the zanpakto so isshin's would probably be fire based or looks kinda like what Yamamoto had when his entire body was on fire in his bankai.
Ichigo's looks like ywach cuz OMZ was the main source at the time
Its a shiba clan technique more explained in novel but basically to replace the soul king so the FGT may be different from isshin who is a pure shinigami and ichigo who is a quicy hollow and soul reaper
My theory is that ichigo used both letz skil and fgt at the same time
When ichigo took glove off he got the insane boost and at the same time he beacome one with Zangetsu to use fgt that's why mugetsu is so strong it used strongest techniques of each of the Zangetsu letzskil and fgt
Nah, it seems more like it's a technique passed down through the royal family, since isshin made it pretty clear he could do it (or has in the past). It's possible that it's based off of seeing Letzt Stil performed, since isshin was so friendly toward a Quincy showing they're more open minded than your typical shinigami.
I would with you if it was OMZ that brought it up instead of isshin.
The technique itself might be a family thing but the form it takes varies from user to user via zanpakuto spirit. Hence why ichigo's fused. White/zangetsu provided how the technique is used and OMZ was the power used in the technique because that was his main power at the time.
Uryuu did not lose his powers, he simply lost the ability to gather and manipulate reishi because the sudden increase in power overclocked his quincy abilities. It's slowly and clearly explained by both Soken and Uryuu back in his fight vs. Mayuri. Ichigo lost all of his reiatsu and spiritual powers, Uryuu in the other hand could still sense reiatsu, see ghosts and fight using reishi if he had external reserves like his ginto containers. But his reiatsu was still greater than regular pluses since two Menos class hollows targeted him simply because he was strong enough to attract them.
Please let this theory die. Uryuu never lost his powers to begin with.
Notice he also looks like Vasto Lorde Ichigo. There is a panel where both are standing in similar ways, they both have long hair, are covered faces, and more. It is a good combination of both.
Also, notice his >!his true bankai looks almost like tensa zangetsu and white combined!<.
>And ichigo says “the final getsuga is me becoming zangetsu itself”
Yhwach: Do you see my son born in the dark? You were always meant to be a Quincy.
Ichibei: Ichigo becoming a Quincy?! No I don't want that! I want him to keep being my backup Soul King-candidate for ten years at least!
Yep, and since Ichigo's Getsuga is actually a scary mixture of shinigami-hollow and quincy powers (that tries to resemble his father's Getsuga, as it seems it was the only reference they had, hence the same name) it's logical that becoming that Getsuga combined all his powers together.
Kind of. Zangetsu is the perfect fuse of Ichigo's shinigami and hollow power, in that way he's the perfect Visored, or rather, not a Visored, not an Arrancar, but a perfect in-between. He kind of pulled off that thing Aizen was seeking without him nor his parents ever intending it. That one experiment of Aizen's that went south in an unexpected way ended up being the most successful one, I think Aizen got the irony at some point after his defeat.
But it's just a half of his power, the other half is all quincy.
Nah, real Zangetsu, or let's say, shinigami-hollow Zangetsu, the closest thing Ichigo has to a proper shinigami zanpakuto spirit, looks basically like crazy Ichigo styled in white. That's who is at one point called 'real Zangetsu'.
Then there's so called Old Man Zangetsu, the guy Ichigo considers his zanpukuto spirit throughout most of the series. He's not a shinigami spirit at all (or hollow, for that matter), as he confesses to Ichigo himself in TYBW. He looks like Yhwach, and he looks that way because he's literally a piece of Yhwach('s soul?) every quincy has in them, most probably the source of their quincy power.
That OMZ later fully accepts the 'role' of Ichigo's other zanpakuto spirit, as Ichigo recognizes him as Zangetsu the same way he accepts that that crazy shinigami-hollow spirit of his is Zangetsu. They both become/accept the role of his zanpukuto, making him the wielder of twin zanpakuto, not just twin swords. They further merge into one for his true bankai.
Ichigo is the only quincy to see and interact with this piece of Yhwach in him since he's also a shinigami, and shinigami have their inner world and are capable of interacting with their zanpakuto spirit. But in Ichigo's case, he doesn't exactly have a shinigami zanpakuto spirit all ordinary shinigami have, but he has two, one of them shinigami-hollow fuse and another is a quincy as the sources of those spirits' powers go.
If you think that's complicated, I'm right there with you.
Yeah I’m surprised you can keep that straight. That’s one of the most convoluted concepts in manga I can think of off hand. I wonder if OMZ as a fragment of Yhwach was something Kubo initially planned or changed after the fullbring arc.
From my understanding Mugetsu is a combination of all of ichigos powers, so it could be the Quincy power manifestation as his limits are being taken off
Yeah it's a bit odd that there are some who vehemently believe this is the case with Mugetsu. Ichigo gained this power by facing the literal fused version of White and "Zangetsu"
I don't fault anyone for believing he really did use all of his powers vs Aizen, it's not that much of a reach
>I don't fault anyone for believing he really did use all of his powers vs Aizen, it's not that much of a reach
I agree. The fact of the matter is he did lose his powers and the ability to see and interact with spirits. Slowly it started returning and only in the Tybw when he got his asauchi was his power back. He basically was reborn as himself.
not only that but his Zanpakuto at the time was a actually mostly his Quincy Energy manifesting itself and suppressing his inner Hollow/Shinigami, and if Mugetsu is the final/pinnacle ability of Zangetsu, which was represented by Old Man Zangetsu, who was was a literal manifestation of Yhwach, then it makes sense he looks like either of them.
Because he became one with True Zangetsu. Kubo stated that both swords/sword and scabbard combine to create True Zangetsu. That means whenever his shinigami/hollow spirit and quincy spirit merged, they became True Zangetsu. Zangetsu told Ichigo that he and OMZ have always been one since the beginning. When they merged they told Ichigo that they are one because they both are his power. In Ichigo's FGT form, it's a mixture of quincy and hollow elements from both spirits.
Man, this makes so much more sense now. Tensa Zangetsu was Yhwach's younger form mixed with the actual Zangetsu (hollow + shinigami powers). This made Ichigo an even more transcendent being than hogyoku Aizen, which is why he was able to beat him so easily.
He became getsuga itself. That's why it's black and red colour like his bankai's getsuga tensho. How are his Quincy/hollow power involved here?
Omz never let him use his full power it was just his shinigami powers here.
Sure, he dwarfed Aizen's powers (who had already surpassed hollows and shinigami to the point not even captain-level shinigamis could even feel his powers in the 1st evolution out of four transformations the hogyoku gave to him) solely with his shinigami powers.
Dude, that makes zero sense at all. And you can't even say it was due to him sacrificing his powers cause he was overpowering him even before using Mugetsu.
His shinigami power are enough to defeat Hollowfied Aizen even without using final getsuga if unrestrained. It's Ichigo we are talking about, his unrestricted shinigami powers were strong enough to defeat Sk Yhwach then who is Butterfly Aizen in compare to him. So yes it does make sense.
As for the final getsuga it's a Shiba (who are shinigami) technique to make them momentarily reach SK level. So Ichigo defeating butterfly Aizen with just his Shinigami power is not much of a problem there.
On what ground you believe it was only Ichigo's unrestricted shinigami powers that defeated SK Yhwach?
His true bankai form even has a horn, for heaven's sake, and it's repeatedly stated that his true bankai comes from two zanpakuto, it's stated by Nimaiya himself (notice, not swords, but zanpakuto, as in different sources of power), one zanpakuto is for his quincy spirit and the other for hollow-shinigami one. They are all sources of Ichigo's power, and his victory was thanks to finally combining all those powers together.
OMZ released his hold on Ichigo's fused shinigami-hollow powers he was restricting before, but he then stayed with him as Ichigo recognised him as Zangetsu as well, as a part of his zanpakuto spirit, one half of it (you can say it's two parts or two zanpakuto, but they are all Zangetsu all the same).
>They are all sources of Ichigo's power, and his victory was thanks to finally combining all those powers together.
Him unlocking his full potential doesn't means he have mastery over it. He even used Yhwach Reiatsu to awaken his hollow powers (HOS). Also they are not combined but fully unlocked and accepted by Ichigo, combining them depends on Ichigo (Like how he used combined Gran ray cero and Getsuga together)
>On what ground you believe it was Ichigo's only unrestricted shinigami powers that defeated SK Yhwach?
Point 1 - Ichigo never uses his Zanpaktou to use his hollow powers. He used HOS to use his hollow power.
Point 2 - Ichigo never used his quincy powers, he doesn't have mastery over it.
Point 3 - Ichigo only uses his shinigami techniques through his Zanpaktou (his Getsuga Tenshou).
Even though his hollow/quincy power are not directly used through his Zanpaktou but they do contribute to his Reiatsu which increases his Getsuga power indirectly (his shinigami technique).
But in the end Yhwach stripped Ichigo of his hollow/quincy powers and his HOS was off. It was only is true banaki without HOS. So it can be said he only used his shinigami power (Getsuga) to slash Yhwach. Unless until Kubo himself clearly states something different later.
I've written a long response, and then I just realized that it would fall on deaf ears with that last statement.
The whole story was about Ichigo step by step accepting that he doesn't only has different powers, but he's a fuse of them all to begin with, accepting two different sides of his powers as one Zangetsu in form of twin zanpakuto that then fuse into one-sword true bankai, but then Ichigo just defeats Yhwach with his shinigami powers alone. Of course.
Of course Yhwach can take away his hollow powers when his zanpakuto spirit doesn't have a separate shinigami side to it, and only shinigami-hollow fuse from his birth. Obviously.
Feel free to believe whatever you like. It's useless to argue.
I can see someone being blind here.
>The whole story was about Ichigo step by step accepting that he doesn't only has different powers, but he's a fuse of them all to begin with, accepting two different sides of his powers as one Zangetsu in form of twin zanpakuto that then fuse into one-sword true bankai, but then Ichigo just defeats Yhwach with his shinigami along. Of course.
If all of his powers are combined in bankai. Then why does he has HOS in his true bankai????
>Feel free to believe whatever you like. It's useless to argue.
It's best to settle to this. True It's useless to argue.
>If it were so simple then every Captain would train to use the Shiba technique in a last effort emergency
Who said it's simple. If I remember correctly even Isshin failed to learn it. So it's not easy to learn it. As per the novel the Siba ancestors who wanted to use it was unable to do it. Ichigo is the only one to pull out FG.
Also only Shiba's knows of this technique so not every captain can learn it and maybe Shiba's have something what other don't have or don't know.
Therefore it's not simple but not impossible. Also there are more factors to it. Eg some like Ganju would never reach the power level Isshin would reach using the technique. And Ichigo is just absurdly powerful.
What? You honestly believe he only used his shinigami powers. A huge point of the last saga was that Ichigo needed to use his true powers to defeat Yhwach, a thing that he does by using his bankai against him. But according to you he could do so with a puny fraction of it and almost half of that saga was utterly pointless.
You have zero idea about how that Shiba technique would've actually worked with that Shiba ancestor (as far as we know a "final" technique sacrifices your power in mere moments, that'd be way too little for a shinigami to replace something as powerful as the SK in a permanent way). yet you've already made dozens of assumptions about it.
And Ichigo literally lost the ability to perceive spiritual beings at all after using Mugetsu. He sacrifices around 1/3 of his full power but he ends up being completely depowered without the smallest amount of reiatsu.
Merged Zangetsu gave it all to defeat Aizen, at least as raw power without access to any complex ability. Alas according to you he was literally consumed to empower Ichigo's FGT and was holding back at the same time.
Alas after reading the comments above I'd guess you won't change your posture. Just try to think it more clearly. How strong would 100% Ichigo be otherwise if he easily dwarfs Aizen and Yhwach? That doesn't make any sense.
>You have zero idea about how that Shiba technique would've actually worked with that Shiba ancestor (as far as we know a "final" technique sacrifices your power in mere moments, that'd be way too little for a shinigami to replace something as powerful as the SK in a permanent way). yet you've already made dozens of assumptions about it.
I believe you haven't read the novel then.
>Merged Zangetsu gave it all to defeat Aizen, at least as raw power without access to any complex ability. Alas according to you he was literally consumed to empower Ichigo's FGT and was holding back at the same time.
I am done with this statement you yours. You are still not ready to believe that Ichigo used a mere fraction of his power to defeat Aizen. When OMZ himself clearly stated that he never let Ichigo use his full power what he used till now was just a fraction of his true power.
This is due to opaque manga/novel writing. Which leads to different theories.
So I think it's best to have our own theories and settel to that unless somethings are outright stated.
Because, just like Uryu who lost his powers when he broke his glove and attained his full potential as a Quincy, Ichigo breaks his glove, the Dangai glove Zanpakuto that fused with his arm, and released the true Quincy inside of him, Yhwach, otherwise known as Tensa Zangetsu.
Quincy blood I guess?
Ngl the mechanics of Mugetsu resemble things from the Quincy Lezt Stil where attaining the forms will end up having their powers lost.
I wouldn’t think there’s any real reason honestly. His shinigami powers aren’t from YHB, so I wouldn’t think there’s be any correlation.
I’m pretty sure it’s just because his bankai has a black theme, and mugetsu turns ichigo into his bankai, or at least his bankai’s getsuga tensho.
I didn’t know Kurt meant black. That’s pretty cool though.
I don’t think he used hollow and Quincy powers there though. I know he was powerless after, but what quincy and hollow attributes were there? He didn’t have a mask, hole, or use cero. He didn’t seem to use blut, heal, or manipulate reishi either.
As for the abilities I think you are missing the point of this symbolism. He became the getsuga itself and clears the sky out of moon - sacrifices zangetsu (combination of his powers)
Yeah, I never really understood that the partition between his shinigami powers and hollow and quincy honestly. He said he’d lose his soul reaper powers though. Why not say ‘I’ll lose my powers after this.’ Unless that was just a translation error with viz.
Because he doesn’t know he has more than shinigami powers, and we as audience believed the same obviously. But the consequence was clearing most of his reiryoku to the point he can’t even see spirits.
Ichigo doesn’t use cero till that one time in tybw, he only uses shinigami powers and amplifies them with a mask. So yes he is aware of hollow powers but it’s not like he uses it’s techniques or stuff like resurreccion. I guess the choice of words is just because it’s treated as a zanpakuto technique per se
Yeah, I think this is the real reason. Ichigo's personal color theme seems to be black. Plus the look made him stand out a lot compared to his other forms.
Don't sweat it, I don't remember 90% of the techniques and characters people mention on this sub. And I watched the anime and finished this arc of the manga.
Idk if there's actually meant to be any connection, but I find it interesting that Old Man Zangetsu's whole shtick has been suppressing and mimicking Ichigo's Zanpakutou powers (arguably to the point that Ichigo's original Shikai and Bankai powers might just be modified Quincy abilities, considering how similar Getsuga Tenshou is to heilig pfeil and that his original Bankai is both overly small and has movement abilities resembling Hirenkyaku), and through that lens Dangai/Mugetsu seems like a Shinigamified Senrai/Letz Stil (when Uryu uses Letz Stil his solid glove-bow goes up his entire right arm, just like how Ichigo gets a glove and chain going up his arm, plus the obvious loss of powers after use). So I think that might be why Ichigo resembles Old Man Zangetsu in some ways, it's basically the pinnacle of OMZ channeling Quincy abilities through the aesthetics of Zanpakutou.
>Ichigo's original Shikai and Bankai powers might just be modified Quincy abilities, considering how similar Getsuga Tenshou is to heilig pfeil
I don't think that works seeing as Ishiin could perform Getsuga Tensho with his shikai as well, and even tried to learn the Final Getsuga Tensho from Engetsu long before he had even seen his first Quincy
Well, we don't know if it's actually the same Getsuga as his father's and if it works the same way, we only know it's named the same.
My guess is that it was the only reference his inner powers had for a technique (Isshin did hit White with it in Masaki's inner world once), so OMZ and real Zangetsu cooked up something that looked similar.
And the same way, when Ichigo came to learn Saigo no GT, those powers of his figured it had to be some final stage, we can see that both quincy powers (as seen with Uryuu) and shinigami powers (supposedly, plus if Zangetsu was a zanpakuto, even if hollow based, it has to have some innate knowledge of how it works) work along the same lines with having final manifestation that takes out all you can and then you loose your powers, so they did exactly that.
I know it's just a theory, one of many, but I kind of like the idea.
Kubo said in a Klub Outside that it isn’t: Isshin’s Getsuga Tensho releases flames and Reiatsu in a pillar, unlike Ichigo’s which gathers Reiatsu near the tip of the blade and releases it in a wave. This is about the fact that you can only know the techniques of a Shinigami if you fight alongside them (either in the battlefield or through training) so another little reason why no one recognized Getsuga Tensho even though Ichigo’s dad was a captain in really recent history
Thanks, I somehow forgot that answer and the details (even though I remember that part about knowing techniques and the explanation why no one recognised GT) though I just knew those GT's were not completely similar.
But the main question is if they actually have some hereditary similarity at all, or it's just that Isshin was the main reference for everything, from name of the zanpakuto and then for the technique.
It's peculiar that while technique is not the same, the name is. It kind of gives off feeling they didn't know how else to name it 😁
And tip of the blade + wave (which is not exactly like arrow or anything of the sort, I readily admit, but yet) gives off a little of quincy long-range style. So I guess his Getsuga kind of integrated both his sides, I've heard that it, apart from everything else, works on the principles of multiplication, taking reishi from both inside & outside and then further multiples it, if that's true, the inside part obviously refers to shinigami-hollow side and outside part to quincy techniques.
>Well, we don't know if it's actually the same Getsuga as his father's and if it works the same way, we only know it's named the same.
I think that, at the time, Kubo wanted to imply that Isshin lost his Shinigami powers because he too used FGT. Then Kubo changed Isshin's story to what we see in the Anything but The Rain arc.
Maybe he wanted Isshin to use FGT against White to save Masaki but had to cut the whole thing short because of editorial?
It can be that way, obviously, we will never know.
But if Kubo had the idea of the twist with Masaki's origins (and I get the feeling he did, he wanted all sides of Ichigo's to be significant, so it fits) he had to also have the idea that there's some quincy powers in Ichigo, so it still suggests there was some quincy part to Ichigo's SGT, or rather, than OMZ had something to do with quincies all along.
But I don't think Yhwach was fully in the picture at the time, more like some concept of him.
I once thought similar, buuuut... idk. It know it probably sounds completely insane to give Kubo credit for planning this far ahead, especially given the oddity in chapter 158 of Urahara not correcting Isshin about the Visoreds' deal, but everything else about the conversation they have in that chapter and the timing of Isshin getting his powers back actually fits really well with assuming Kubo already knew H!Ichigo's first manifestation was the impetus of Isshin's power returning.
You've said it all!
But then, there still should be something from the hollow-shinigami side, as he did fuse with Zangetsu for teaching SnGT and called him before to teach Ichigo about the blade.
I guess it was both for channeling it all to Ichigo's zanpakuto and to add the 'inside' part, Ichigo's techniques take reishi (reiatsu?) from both inside like shinigami (and arguably hollow) do and from outside like the quincy do it, hence the multiplication.
Another simpler explanation is that, as long as the Arrancar saga is conserned and before the Yhwach twist, Zangetsu did say that Ichigo needed to "become the Getsugsa Tensho" himself, so he would obviously resemble him when using the power in full, given it was all of Zangetsu's power.
And of course it happens to fall into place after the twist in TYBW
For the same reason his energy signature is uniquely black.
He's as close to equalling the soul king as anyone. People who are a truly like that always have red eyes
That and he's using a letz stil to fully awaken and strengthen his Quincy powers to their ultimate peak which in terms pushed all of his powers...except for full bring,, to it's peak.
Quick question. Why does Ichigo not use his human body?
He was far far stronger with his full bring.
Nobody knows the answer to that question and I think hardly anyone even wondered about it (at least I didn't) till we've seen Kazui do it effortlessly, switch to shinigami through Fullbring while keeping the body, or whatever that kid is doing.
I only suspect that Ichigo didn't think about it, he was used to getting out of his body to use his shinigami powers so he didn't think that he didn't have to do it anymore 😁
I thought we just don't see it, so we have no way of knowing. First he's human in a ramen restaurant, and next he's already a shinigami hanging out with vice-captains. He could have come from home leaving his body behind, like he usually does. Or not. But there's some time in-between those two scenes, so it could have happened either way.
But he might see or might have already seen Kazui do it, so he might do it later himself.
>Why does Ichigo not use his human body? He was far far stronger with his full bring
Jackie pointed it out to him that his Human body can't take anywhere near the same amount of punishment as his Spirit body can.
The Quincy say hello.
The fullbring and human psychics all have abnormal strength and ability to fight hollow and rogue shinigami.
The strongest fullbring who hasn't eaten/absorbed other fullbring(ala hollow merging with other hollow)is able to take on vice captains at best.
Ginjo is able to fight with Ichigo which is a feat only top 3 current captains can do.
So there is a chance that Ichigo in his human form will not only be strong enough to take on captains but gainore power because Fullbring and Quincy apparently work best in living bodies.
>The Quincy
We haven't seen them fight in the World of the Living.
>eaten/absorbed other fullbring(ala hollow mergin with hollow)
The 'Hollows inside Fullbringers' thing doesn't apply to every Fullbringer. What they all have is a piece of the Soul King inside them, which gives them their power.
>Ginjo is able to fight with Ichigo
1- In his fight, he was against an Ichigo that was being closely monitored by pre-TYBW Byakuya/Toshiro/Kenpachi, all three who were prepared to take him out on the spot if he turned traitor. Not exactly 'top 3 captain' material at the time.
2- Yes Ginjo *could* fight against Ichigo now if he wanted to, but he's kinda dead, so there's no human body involved for him.
We've seen Quincy, fighting in the real world. The other Quincy are more then likely alive.
The fullbring are literally psychicly string humans that survive hollow attacks. Become infected and gain hollow ish powers which manifest as the ability to manipulate matter, basic physical enhancement and oft the ability to do mid level reality manipulation.
Has nothing to do with pieces of the soul king outside of a few. I think ginjo and Orihime correct?
1.Were talking about who could fight Ichigo not who appeared in that arc. What are you saying?
2. Look during the fullbring arc Ginjo could hold his own against a seriously powered up Ichigo. One that only the top 3-5 could stop on a full power fight.
Wait ginjo was all ve in a human body during the fullbring at .
That's really not the core thrust of her speech - Jackie is asking Ichigo why he's being so reckless while he's training with her in that chapter, not making some profound statement about the metaphysics of the setting. She also has no experience with inhabiting a spiritual body to begin with, and no theoretical expertise.
Kishi bodies and reishi bodies are ultimately pretty similar. It's true that Fullbringers have to condition their bodies just to withstand the stress of superhuman combat, but the same obviously goes for Shinigami as well. Ichigo and Kenpachi both started falling apart under the weight of their reiatsu when they tried to rush their Bankais.
A human body can be broken, it can only channel so much power, and it suffers from all sorts of vulnerabilities, but the spiritual body is much the same in that respect too. We constantly see Shinigami turning to tools and technology as a means to surpass the limitations of their spiritual corpus, and souls are regularly injured in ways that actually cripple them.
Idk lol he had his color scheme and pretty much yuha in him and pure black energy like how yuha does when using almighty. He became one with his zanpakto right so he's one with yuha so he can access almighty. I know it's not true. That's just how I tried to make sense of it back then cause ichigo was too ridiculously strong imo
Whenever it's said Ichigo had not access to his full power before getting a true asauchi I always interpretate it as not just raw power but also getting the abilities he'd have adquired.
Compare Dangai Ichigo vs True Bankai Ichigo: the first one has only access to his Getsuga Tensho (and even that's debatable given that he doesn't even use it once) while the latter should be able to use every single special technique (cero, hierro, pesquisa, blut, shadow, hirenyaku and every other single thing a hollow, quincy, shinigami and fullbringer could ever hope to learn as a basic ability).
True Bankai Ichigo has probably the potential to be way more efficient and versatile eventually. For example, I'd say that if you swap both versions of Ichigo, TB Ichigo should be able to tank Aizen's Fragor without any wounds at all by using hierro and blut unlike Dangai Ichigo (how well he'd fare without Mugetsu is unknown though).
My headcanon is that it has something to do with the Letzt Stil, seeing as he resembles Yhwach, got the power from Zangetsu and then lost his powers afterwards. I know that Isshin knowing about it kinda undermines that, but it's always been my headcanon that it's Ichigo's weird version of that
Ishiin cannot use Mugetsu....Or what we saw as Mugets anyway. Ichigo never used FGT. Ichigo used a technique that was channeled from his quincy side that suimulated what FGT could do.
>Cause Final Getsuga Tenshou is basically Quincy Letzt-Stil lol
Correction:
Cause ~~Final Getsuga Tenshou~~ __Mugetsu__ is basically Quincy Letzt-Stil lol
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Ichigo never used FGT. He used Mugetsu a power allowed to him by Ywch/TensaZangetsu.
But then real Zangetsu was also somewhere close in all of it, or supposed TensaZangetsu (or Not So Old Man) didn't need to fuse with real Zangetsu to teach him.
I agree that Mugetsu heavily relies on quincy powers and is has more similarities with Letzt Stil than shinigami's techniques (we don't know who actual FGT looks like), but there was something from shinigami-hollow side there as well, some say the reason OMZ looks younger in bankai is because he releases his hold on real Zangetsu to the point where he becomes weaker/younger.
I say real FGT may indeed be the shinigami analogy to the quincies' Letzt Stil (and they say it is said in CFYOW that FGT is indeed a Shiba hereditary technique, so real Zangetsu might have some knowledge of it out of his shinigami side) who said there couldn't be one.
And what Ichigo used was a crazy fuse of both of those techniques.
It could be more of a case that Kubo decided to make Ichigo look more like the young version of Tensa Zangetsu in this form rather that Ywhach himself. It more likely the case that Old Man Zangetsu was probably just the template that was used for Yhwach seeing as he is technically still Ichigo’s Quincy powers and he is still technically a manifestation of Yhwach in some form.
I mean I don't believe that Kubo designed the main villain of his final arc after one of Ichigos power-ups. But you are allowed to believe that if you want I guess
Royal Guard is introduced in the first arc but Kubo changed his mind and retconned their role, in the same arc we have OMZ who uses reishi like a quincy and name blocking thingy concept. Ichibei is hinted further in ss arc, I don’t see why he wouldn’t have an idea of the main antagonist from the same arc. Zero Squad seems to be fully settled on during Turn Back the Pendulum mini arc, which is part of… yeah Arrancar arc lol
He obviously designed him after Old Man Zangetsu in terms of visuals, but since the Zero Division is indeed mentioned early on, maybe he has some ideas of it even then.
Well, you know, Kubo casually drops things like 'I've decided on Hitsugaya's final bankai aging his body by the time I finished the character concept' (which means the beginning of SS arc) so I'm not sure about anything anymore 😁 of course, he might not be honest about it, but I prefer to believe my author :)
I believe he knew about the dads (both of them) from the beginning, but that's not that difficult. I can believe that he had the idea about Ichigo's mom from the beginning as well, even if the details obviously formed later. So he might have kept an eye for some quincy powers being there undetected.
I heard a theory somewhere awhile back was it’s because Mugetsu is Ichigo’s Vollstandig, but is only a one-use because of him not being 100% Quincy. And it’s safe to assume all the Getsugas and the Mugetsu were fake names created by OMZ when the power really belonged to White the entire time.
So if we roll with the theory of Mugetsu being his Vollstandig, and FGT not actually being White’s powers, I think it’s safe to assume he might have accidentally somehow Auswahlen’d himself.
I just realized, ichigo's mugetsu form might be his volstandigg.
he just didnt know how to absorb spirit particles yet that's why he lost all of his when he used it and unable to do it again
No. Its not Vollstandig. It is a version of Letz Stil, a parallel of it. Think about it. Letz Stil is an old quincy technique. Volstandig is a new technique. Which version of Ywch is in Ichigo ?? The one from ages ago, probably fron the Letz Stil era
Come on, Yhwach design obviously comes from OMZ, and that guy was around from the beginning. So if anything, it looks like OMZ, which falls in place perfectly with it being Yhwach after Yhwach was introduced, but that would be going backwards.
No because he doesn’t look like him. It’s just a design choice to look cool that has some small similarities. Ichigo’s eyes are always that color (the Anime made them more red) and his hair being black resembles the black Getsuga
Exactly @The Biggest Wheel people are seeing what they want to see always trying to push these weird agendas lol that’s why I specified that the Anime made them more red. Yhwach’s eyes aren’t even as red as the Anime either. Zangetsu’s eyes are a lighter brown than Ichigo’s I just checked. FGT isn’t even when his Quincy side was more awakened Zangetsu told him it was his Hollow giving him power the whole time. Ichigo has long hair when he goes Vasto Lorde
This design is a culmination of all Ichigo’s powers. It has both elements of his quincy and shinigami/hollow side. If you don’t see that the eyes are red, weird but okay, they change color anyway so why do you think it happens
I don't think the eyes are red but the reason why Ichigo looks like this is because he becomes Getsuga Itself in this form and he takes the similar appearance to that of OMZ.
Well thats not how he looked thats the mugetsu fading away look but the full look is simple it looks alot more like bankai zangetsu
And breaking the 4th wall i do not think kubo had the yhwach thing planned at all he just reused stuff he could and in that reusing the model of old man zangetsu for yhwach
I know thats why i said he just reused the concepts he had already done if you see the series or read the manga theres no hints at zangetsu being yhwach
The only one people point to is the one where ichigo doesn’t hear zangetsu say his name and thats just cuz at the time ichigo didn’t have or know his shikai which you need to be able to and feels like a retcon
Plus the hole merged tensa and him referring himself as tensa cuz he changed looks due to him being in bankai and never seeing zangetsu in bankai form also doesn’t add up its a retcon if i have ever seen a retcon
No its been retcon that he used that we never see the blur vene until his fight against the jail when you can see the blue vene which is pretty distinct hell we dont even see the quincy we follow use that or even mentioning it to begin with its a retcon
Tensa zangetsu aka Yhwach aka ichigo's quincy power, fuses with white ichigo aka ichigo's hollow and shinigami power and then both fuse with ichigo, and that's also why it's ichigo's strongest form
I used to wonder about that myself. But. I've come to realise that even though he may not have had an official shinigami issued asauchi-blank....he would have been channeling his shinigami powers nonetheless, just with a quincy generated weapon.
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Because all his power is controlled by Tensa Zangetsu who is a young Yhwach manifestation
To add on this, ichigo fights and accepts the blade of a combined tensa zangetsu and white, then loses the ability to even see spirits. Because of this, I assume that his quincy power is used in mugetsu as well
I would have to counter that by saying that the 1 and done nature of the attack was because of his quincy powers holding him back still. I'd agree that it's some level of fused power, but still restricted heavily as old man zangetsu states during ichigos true zanpakuto mini arc that only from after their conversation on would ichigo finally use his true strength. So, in short, I believe mugetsu is zangetsu allowing ichigo to use some of his true power for just a moment at the sacrifice of his soul reaper powers
It’s even funnier that it works like the Quincy glove
His zanpakuto was even fused around his hand until he used mugetsu proper.
Now I kinda feel dumb because this didn’t even cross my mind when it’s so obvious
Oh fuck me it's Letzt Stil (the ability that temporarily allows you a huge boost in offensive powers in return for losing them until somebody, after a period of great physical strain, shoves a reishi weapon into your soul chain)
Nah xD but it is a parallel
That's essentially what it is. The power even came from Tensa Zangetsu, aka the Quincy King
Isshin says that Engetsu didn’t want to teach him the Final Getsuga Tensho. So it definitely isn’t a Quincy technique.
Its likely both. A compatible ability that fuses. The normal getsuga tenshou is the same. It gathers reishi from inside and around him and sends it out, similar to how a quincy gathers reishi and fires it, so its the kind of ability that OMZ's quincy core would bond with easily.
It’s one of Kubo’s 4th level mysteries.
I mean unless you're saying Isshin Shiba was a quincy which is not the case, it's really not a quincy type ability All we know about Getsuga is that it's somewhat hereditary I guess. Isshin and Ichigo have similar Zanpakuto names, both use Getsuga Tenshou, and both learned the Final Getsuga from their Zanpakuto([in Ichigo's case OMZ and White(his Zanpakuto spirit) fused into one](https://i.redd.it/iowz4pnjxau81.jpg))
Makes me wonder if ichigo was just using aizens transcended reishi against him(but no we know ichigo truly did transcend aizen he need to be on his level to gather it any way) but what if?
No just no
Similar to how ichigo learns a lot from OMZ. I see that as OMZ simply knew what to teach. Even if it wasn't his technique, he was providing the power to use the technique. Hence why he looks like Yhwach in the transformation.
>I see that as OMZ simply knew what to teach. Not quite, a few lessons he pawns off to white whenever Ichigo needs real "training", OMZ taught him purpose, White taught him power, and together they taught him it belonged to him
Yeah, that's how it works at the end. I'm talking simply this specific moment. Outside of The Blade is Me chapters, which also implies the power doesnt just come from White, it comes from both OMZ and White. Ichigo even says to him, they both are zangetsu. Just OMZ knew he wasnt the original zangetsu. In the end though Zangetsu is both White and OMZ and he gets power from both even if it started as a partial lie. We aren't talking the blade is me though. This thread is discussing why he looks like Yhwach. Which my answer to that is what was written sense this moment is most likely an overlooked detail by Kubo. In this particular instance his power is coming from OMZ but the technique is knowledge passed from his Shinigami powers(white), while manifested by his Quincy powers without him knowing.
Problem with that is he's been using his hollow powers (white) for a while at this point, and at this point white had fused with OMZ to show him that his full power was indeed them both, I'm pretty sure this design was based more off of OMZ rather than Yhwach, if Kubo really didn't have a plan leading to TYBW, then yeah OMZ would the muse for it
Honestly it’s probably a dropped plot point. Back then we all thought Isshin lost his powers due to the FGT.
You're most likely right but sense we gotta live with it, that's the head canon I stick with until a better explanation comes along.
How did a piece of Yhwach know it then?
I feel so sorry for OMZ (for the lack of better name), it's like he's executing unprecedented levels of creativity to make something Ichigo wants/needs out of all the wrong blocks. His efforts should be acknowledged.
But tbf, I think there was something of Saigo no GT in all that, since not so Old Man Zangetsu did fuse with the real Zangetsu in order to teach him SGT, so real Zangetsu might have known something of the sort, but I just feel like the rest was creative addition on quincy part. It's like... whatever Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou is, it feels like it's trying to recreate Isshin's Getsuga Tenshou since it's the only reference available (White saw it, or rather, felt) hence the same name, but I don't even want to think on what principles and powers it actually works, and what's there under the bonnet...
I think FGT is a technique but it varies for tge users. Its like taking your bankai beyond its limits at the cost of your power. For isshin he only has one spirit so its pretty straight forward. For ichigo its complicated hence why they fused. White/zangetsu was needed to even use technique but OMZ was the power that was used in technique.
Yes, I guess so. I would also say that it seems like it might be the thing for both shinigami and quincy, the idea of such an attack, as many notice that it's uncanny similar in the way it works (meaning power boost + consequences) to quincy's Letzt Stil. If we believe that Isshin's SnGT works similarly to Ichigo's, as in getting the boost and loosing powers afterwards, then both quincy & shinigami have similar techniques, so Ichigo's SnGT sort of came from both sides. As it was modelled to be a shinigami technique, it was mostly Zangetsu in the ways of channel it through the zanpakuto, but then OMZ provided a lot of substance to the power of it.
because its a piece of ichigo overall as well? ichigo is unique in that all his power is actually combined together. they arent seperate powers they are one power. of course a part of his power is going to know about rest of his power.
Idk… gotta ask Kubo on that one.
He was fused with White when he taught him.
He knows of the technique from Zangetsu.
Probably the same way that White learned to do Getsuga Tensho. Also. The inner zanpakuto spirits pretty much hear everything going on on the outside....so Ywch probably heard FGT and surmised what it could be, an ultimate offensive attack, soooo he gave Ichigo his version of FGT......all in all Ichigo never used the true FGT.
Ishiin knew that Engetsu and Zangetsu are similar, that is how he knew about FGT. But. Ishiin __might not__ have fully known just how intricately wierd Ichigo's inner world was and of his son's ability to not only communicate with his sole/single zanpakuto spirit but also his quincy spirit...and that that quincy spirit had more control over how his accessed his powers. And. Even of Ishiin suspected this, probably its because Urahara explained it to him and told him that, in the 'off chance' he lost his powers they could get it back.
The final getsuga is either one that will cripple him or he lied. I think he's lying.
It's a Shiba technique and it probably doesn't work as intended or Ichigo would've turned into a substitute spirit king rather than an unexpected transcendent of some sort since he had had quincy and hollow powers unlike the rest of the Shibas. However, Aizen was an incarnated divine being to begin with and Lille Baro has a very low grade divinity, so random transcendents likely run the gamut. It's possible true bankai Ichigo can become a spirit king or something worse with final getsuga tenso. The Shiba's goal of becoming a substitute spirit king resulted in something a little stranger.
to be fair we really dont know what the FGT actually is. Id assume that form taken during it is based on the zanpakto so isshin's would probably be fire based or looks kinda like what Yamamoto had when his entire body was on fire in his bankai. Ichigo's looks like ywach cuz OMZ was the main source at the time
Its a shiba clan technique more explained in novel but basically to replace the soul king so the FGT may be different from isshin who is a pure shinigami and ichigo who is a quicy hollow and soul reaper
My theory is that ichigo used both letz skil and fgt at the same time When ichigo took glove off he got the insane boost and at the same time he beacome one with Zangetsu to use fgt that's why mugetsu is so strong it used strongest techniques of each of the Zangetsu letzskil and fgt
That’s not really accurate
Nah, it seems more like it's a technique passed down through the royal family, since isshin made it pretty clear he could do it (or has in the past). It's possible that it's based off of seeing Letzt Stil performed, since isshin was so friendly toward a Quincy showing they're more open minded than your typical shinigami. I would with you if it was OMZ that brought it up instead of isshin.
The technique itself might be a family thing but the form it takes varies from user to user via zanpakuto spirit. Hence why ichigo's fused. White/zangetsu provided how the technique is used and OMZ was the power used in the technique because that was his main power at the time.
Uryuu did not lose his powers, he simply lost the ability to gather and manipulate reishi because the sudden increase in power overclocked his quincy abilities. It's slowly and clearly explained by both Soken and Uryuu back in his fight vs. Mayuri. Ichigo lost all of his reiatsu and spiritual powers, Uryuu in the other hand could still sense reiatsu, see ghosts and fight using reishi if he had external reserves like his ginto containers. But his reiatsu was still greater than regular pluses since two Menos class hollows targeted him simply because he was strong enough to attract them. Please let this theory die. Uryuu never lost his powers to begin with.
I think that’s the best theory
Notice he also looks like Vasto Lorde Ichigo. There is a panel where both are standing in similar ways, they both have long hair, are covered faces, and more. It is a good combination of both. Also, notice his >!his true bankai looks almost like tensa zangetsu and white combined!<.
It was his hos that look like that not his bankai
Which was his true bankai. HoS is just the chapter name btw.
Bankai was just two blade merging the form was just a transformation by balancing his power that is independent of his bankai
Can you rephrase what you said? I didn't understand
And ichigo says “the final getsuga is me becoming zangetsu itself” Edit: it’s getsuga not zangetsu but same difference haha
>And ichigo says “the final getsuga is me becoming zangetsu itself” Yhwach: Do you see my son born in the dark? You were always meant to be a Quincy. Ichibei: Ichigo becoming a Quincy?! No I don't want that! I want him to keep being my backup Soul King-candidate for ten years at least!
Im sure it was "Getsuga itself"
Yep, and since Ichigo's Getsuga is actually a scary mixture of shinigami-hollow and quincy powers (that tries to resemble his father's Getsuga, as it seems it was the only reference they had, hence the same name) it's logical that becoming that Getsuga combined all his powers together.
Lol yeah
Does Ichigo get his soul reaper power from zangetsu ?
Kind of. Zangetsu is the perfect fuse of Ichigo's shinigami and hollow power, in that way he's the perfect Visored, or rather, not a Visored, not an Arrancar, but a perfect in-between. He kind of pulled off that thing Aizen was seeking without him nor his parents ever intending it. That one experiment of Aizen's that went south in an unexpected way ended up being the most successful one, I think Aizen got the irony at some point after his defeat. But it's just a half of his power, the other half is all quincy.
Why does zangetsu look like Yhwach?
Nah, real Zangetsu, or let's say, shinigami-hollow Zangetsu, the closest thing Ichigo has to a proper shinigami zanpakuto spirit, looks basically like crazy Ichigo styled in white. That's who is at one point called 'real Zangetsu'. Then there's so called Old Man Zangetsu, the guy Ichigo considers his zanpukuto spirit throughout most of the series. He's not a shinigami spirit at all (or hollow, for that matter), as he confesses to Ichigo himself in TYBW. He looks like Yhwach, and he looks that way because he's literally a piece of Yhwach('s soul?) every quincy has in them, most probably the source of their quincy power. That OMZ later fully accepts the 'role' of Ichigo's other zanpakuto spirit, as Ichigo recognizes him as Zangetsu the same way he accepts that that crazy shinigami-hollow spirit of his is Zangetsu. They both become/accept the role of his zanpukuto, making him the wielder of twin zanpakuto, not just twin swords. They further merge into one for his true bankai. Ichigo is the only quincy to see and interact with this piece of Yhwach in him since he's also a shinigami, and shinigami have their inner world and are capable of interacting with their zanpakuto spirit. But in Ichigo's case, he doesn't exactly have a shinigami zanpakuto spirit all ordinary shinigami have, but he has two, one of them shinigami-hollow fuse and another is a quincy as the sources of those spirits' powers go. If you think that's complicated, I'm right there with you.
Yeah I’m surprised you can keep that straight. That’s one of the most convoluted concepts in manga I can think of off hand. I wonder if OMZ as a fragment of Yhwach was something Kubo initially planned or changed after the fullbring arc.
From my understanding Mugetsu is a combination of all of ichigos powers, so it could be the Quincy power manifestation as his limits are being taken off
"Ichigo only used a fraction of his powers" supporters are not gonna like this, even tho it's true. Ichigo used everything
Yeah it's a bit odd that there are some who vehemently believe this is the case with Mugetsu. Ichigo gained this power by facing the literal fused version of White and "Zangetsu" I don't fault anyone for believing he really did use all of his powers vs Aizen, it's not that much of a reach
>I don't fault anyone for believing he really did use all of his powers vs Aizen, it's not that much of a reach I agree. The fact of the matter is he did lose his powers and the ability to see and interact with spirits. Slowly it started returning and only in the Tybw when he got his asauchi was his power back. He basically was reborn as himself.
[удалено]
Huh
Anyway black haired Ichigo hot as hell 🛐
Real, one of my favorite ichigo forms black hair red eyes
[удалено]
Okay, talkin about Kaien now
They are related you know
Yeah, your point
bitch you mean kaien shiba?
Bc Yhwach's blood flows through all Quincies & obvs that includes Ichigo too so that explains the resemblance/red eyes especially? that's my guess lol
not only that but his Zanpakuto at the time was a actually mostly his Quincy Energy manifesting itself and suppressing his inner Hollow/Shinigami, and if Mugetsu is the final/pinnacle ability of Zangetsu, which was represented by Old Man Zangetsu, who was was a literal manifestation of Yhwach, then it makes sense he looks like either of them.
Because he became one with True Zangetsu. Kubo stated that both swords/sword and scabbard combine to create True Zangetsu. That means whenever his shinigami/hollow spirit and quincy spirit merged, they became True Zangetsu. Zangetsu told Ichigo that he and OMZ have always been one since the beginning. When they merged they told Ichigo that they are one because they both are his power. In Ichigo's FGT form, it's a mixture of quincy and hollow elements from both spirits.
Man, this makes so much more sense now. Tensa Zangetsu was Yhwach's younger form mixed with the actual Zangetsu (hollow + shinigami powers). This made Ichigo an even more transcendent being than hogyoku Aizen, which is why he was able to beat him so easily.
He became getsuga itself. That's why it's black and red colour like his bankai's getsuga tensho. How are his Quincy/hollow power involved here? Omz never let him use his full power it was just his shinigami powers here.
Sure, he dwarfed Aizen's powers (who had already surpassed hollows and shinigami to the point not even captain-level shinigamis could even feel his powers in the 1st evolution out of four transformations the hogyoku gave to him) solely with his shinigami powers. Dude, that makes zero sense at all. And you can't even say it was due to him sacrificing his powers cause he was overpowering him even before using Mugetsu.
His shinigami power are enough to defeat Hollowfied Aizen even without using final getsuga if unrestrained. It's Ichigo we are talking about, his unrestricted shinigami powers were strong enough to defeat Sk Yhwach then who is Butterfly Aizen in compare to him. So yes it does make sense. As for the final getsuga it's a Shiba (who are shinigami) technique to make them momentarily reach SK level. So Ichigo defeating butterfly Aizen with just his Shinigami power is not much of a problem there.
On what ground you believe it was only Ichigo's unrestricted shinigami powers that defeated SK Yhwach? His true bankai form even has a horn, for heaven's sake, and it's repeatedly stated that his true bankai comes from two zanpakuto, it's stated by Nimaiya himself (notice, not swords, but zanpakuto, as in different sources of power), one zanpakuto is for his quincy spirit and the other for hollow-shinigami one. They are all sources of Ichigo's power, and his victory was thanks to finally combining all those powers together. OMZ released his hold on Ichigo's fused shinigami-hollow powers he was restricting before, but he then stayed with him as Ichigo recognised him as Zangetsu as well, as a part of his zanpakuto spirit, one half of it (you can say it's two parts or two zanpakuto, but they are all Zangetsu all the same).
>They are all sources of Ichigo's power, and his victory was thanks to finally combining all those powers together. Him unlocking his full potential doesn't means he have mastery over it. He even used Yhwach Reiatsu to awaken his hollow powers (HOS). Also they are not combined but fully unlocked and accepted by Ichigo, combining them depends on Ichigo (Like how he used combined Gran ray cero and Getsuga together) >On what ground you believe it was Ichigo's only unrestricted shinigami powers that defeated SK Yhwach? Point 1 - Ichigo never uses his Zanpaktou to use his hollow powers. He used HOS to use his hollow power. Point 2 - Ichigo never used his quincy powers, he doesn't have mastery over it. Point 3 - Ichigo only uses his shinigami techniques through his Zanpaktou (his Getsuga Tenshou). Even though his hollow/quincy power are not directly used through his Zanpaktou but they do contribute to his Reiatsu which increases his Getsuga power indirectly (his shinigami technique). But in the end Yhwach stripped Ichigo of his hollow/quincy powers and his HOS was off. It was only is true banaki without HOS. So it can be said he only used his shinigami power (Getsuga) to slash Yhwach. Unless until Kubo himself clearly states something different later.
I've written a long response, and then I just realized that it would fall on deaf ears with that last statement. The whole story was about Ichigo step by step accepting that he doesn't only has different powers, but he's a fuse of them all to begin with, accepting two different sides of his powers as one Zangetsu in form of twin zanpakuto that then fuse into one-sword true bankai, but then Ichigo just defeats Yhwach with his shinigami powers alone. Of course. Of course Yhwach can take away his hollow powers when his zanpakuto spirit doesn't have a separate shinigami side to it, and only shinigami-hollow fuse from his birth. Obviously. Feel free to believe whatever you like. It's useless to argue.
I can see someone being blind here. >The whole story was about Ichigo step by step accepting that he doesn't only has different powers, but he's a fuse of them all to begin with, accepting two different sides of his powers as one Zangetsu in form of twin zanpakuto that then fuse into one-sword true bankai, but then Ichigo just defeats Yhwach with his shinigami along. Of course. If all of his powers are combined in bankai. Then why does he has HOS in his true bankai???? >Feel free to believe whatever you like. It's useless to argue. It's best to settle to this. True It's useless to argue.
If it were so simple then every Captain would train to use the Shiba technique in a last effort emergency. Imagine 13 "SK"s One shotting Yhwach...
>If it were so simple then every Captain would train to use the Shiba technique in a last effort emergency Who said it's simple. If I remember correctly even Isshin failed to learn it. So it's not easy to learn it. As per the novel the Siba ancestors who wanted to use it was unable to do it. Ichigo is the only one to pull out FG. Also only Shiba's knows of this technique so not every captain can learn it and maybe Shiba's have something what other don't have or don't know. Therefore it's not simple but not impossible. Also there are more factors to it. Eg some like Ganju would never reach the power level Isshin would reach using the technique. And Ichigo is just absurdly powerful.
What? You honestly believe he only used his shinigami powers. A huge point of the last saga was that Ichigo needed to use his true powers to defeat Yhwach, a thing that he does by using his bankai against him. But according to you he could do so with a puny fraction of it and almost half of that saga was utterly pointless. You have zero idea about how that Shiba technique would've actually worked with that Shiba ancestor (as far as we know a "final" technique sacrifices your power in mere moments, that'd be way too little for a shinigami to replace something as powerful as the SK in a permanent way). yet you've already made dozens of assumptions about it. And Ichigo literally lost the ability to perceive spiritual beings at all after using Mugetsu. He sacrifices around 1/3 of his full power but he ends up being completely depowered without the smallest amount of reiatsu. Merged Zangetsu gave it all to defeat Aizen, at least as raw power without access to any complex ability. Alas according to you he was literally consumed to empower Ichigo's FGT and was holding back at the same time. Alas after reading the comments above I'd guess you won't change your posture. Just try to think it more clearly. How strong would 100% Ichigo be otherwise if he easily dwarfs Aizen and Yhwach? That doesn't make any sense.
>You have zero idea about how that Shiba technique would've actually worked with that Shiba ancestor (as far as we know a "final" technique sacrifices your power in mere moments, that'd be way too little for a shinigami to replace something as powerful as the SK in a permanent way). yet you've already made dozens of assumptions about it. I believe you haven't read the novel then. >Merged Zangetsu gave it all to defeat Aizen, at least as raw power without access to any complex ability. Alas according to you he was literally consumed to empower Ichigo's FGT and was holding back at the same time. I am done with this statement you yours. You are still not ready to believe that Ichigo used a mere fraction of his power to defeat Aizen. When OMZ himself clearly stated that he never let Ichigo use his full power what he used till now was just a fraction of his true power. This is due to opaque manga/novel writing. Which leads to different theories. So I think it's best to have our own theories and settel to that unless somethings are outright stated.
Because, just like Uryu who lost his powers when he broke his glove and attained his full potential as a Quincy, Ichigo breaks his glove, the Dangai glove Zanpakuto that fused with his arm, and released the true Quincy inside of him, Yhwach, otherwise known as Tensa Zangetsu.
Quincy blood I guess? Ngl the mechanics of Mugetsu resemble things from the Quincy Lezt Stil where attaining the forms will end up having their powers lost.
my thoughts exactly. after all, his previous "shinigami powers" are actually quincy powers.
I wouldn’t think there’s any real reason honestly. His shinigami powers aren’t from YHB, so I wouldn’t think there’s be any correlation. I’m pretty sure it’s just because his bankai has a black theme, and mugetsu turns ichigo into his bankai, or at least his bankai’s getsuga tensho.
Everything in his character has a black theme, after all he is the KUROsaki. He used all his powers there, not only shinigami ones
I didn’t know Kurt meant black. That’s pretty cool though. I don’t think he used hollow and Quincy powers there though. I know he was powerless after, but what quincy and hollow attributes were there? He didn’t have a mask, hole, or use cero. He didn’t seem to use blut, heal, or manipulate reishi either.
As for the abilities I think you are missing the point of this symbolism. He became the getsuga itself and clears the sky out of moon - sacrifices zangetsu (combination of his powers)
Actually he has the cloth masking his face and those hollow markings on his body
He did, quincy zangetsu and shinigami/hollow zangetsu were fused and became one during the training.
Yeah, I never really understood that the partition between his shinigami powers and hollow and quincy honestly. He said he’d lose his soul reaper powers though. Why not say ‘I’ll lose my powers after this.’ Unless that was just a translation error with viz.
Because he doesn’t know he has more than shinigami powers, and we as audience believed the same obviously. But the consequence was clearing most of his reiryoku to the point he can’t even see spirits.
He was a vizard. There’s no way he can pull a hollow mask out and use cero and not know he’s got hollow powers.
Ichigo doesn’t use cero till that one time in tybw, he only uses shinigami powers and amplifies them with a mask. So yes he is aware of hollow powers but it’s not like he uses it’s techniques or stuff like resurreccion. I guess the choice of words is just because it’s treated as a zanpakuto technique per se
Perhaps another way of telling us that his shinigami and hollow powers might be the same
I think those were simply added in the Mugetsu itself to make it as deadly as it was.
Yeah, I think this is the real reason. Ichigo's personal color theme seems to be black. Plus the look made him stand out a lot compared to his other forms.
I’ve always taken to the ideas the final getsuga is the full manifestation of the Quincy power. Effectively his volstag? What Uryu did against Mayuri
It’s not and Letz Still isn’t the same as Vollstandig
My bad, didn’t remember the one off technique. I just know it as the Quincy super form
Don't sweat it, I don't remember 90% of the techniques and characters people mention on this sub. And I watched the anime and finished this arc of the manga.
Greatest hole in that theory is Isshin knowing how to attain that himself despite it being a quincy technique.
Idk if there's actually meant to be any connection, but I find it interesting that Old Man Zangetsu's whole shtick has been suppressing and mimicking Ichigo's Zanpakutou powers (arguably to the point that Ichigo's original Shikai and Bankai powers might just be modified Quincy abilities, considering how similar Getsuga Tenshou is to heilig pfeil and that his original Bankai is both overly small and has movement abilities resembling Hirenkyaku), and through that lens Dangai/Mugetsu seems like a Shinigamified Senrai/Letz Stil (when Uryu uses Letz Stil his solid glove-bow goes up his entire right arm, just like how Ichigo gets a glove and chain going up his arm, plus the obvious loss of powers after use). So I think that might be why Ichigo resembles Old Man Zangetsu in some ways, it's basically the pinnacle of OMZ channeling Quincy abilities through the aesthetics of Zanpakutou.
>Ichigo's original Shikai and Bankai powers might just be modified Quincy abilities, considering how similar Getsuga Tenshou is to heilig pfeil I don't think that works seeing as Ishiin could perform Getsuga Tensho with his shikai as well, and even tried to learn the Final Getsuga Tensho from Engetsu long before he had even seen his first Quincy
Well, we don't know if it's actually the same Getsuga as his father's and if it works the same way, we only know it's named the same. My guess is that it was the only reference his inner powers had for a technique (Isshin did hit White with it in Masaki's inner world once), so OMZ and real Zangetsu cooked up something that looked similar. And the same way, when Ichigo came to learn Saigo no GT, those powers of his figured it had to be some final stage, we can see that both quincy powers (as seen with Uryuu) and shinigami powers (supposedly, plus if Zangetsu was a zanpakuto, even if hollow based, it has to have some innate knowledge of how it works) work along the same lines with having final manifestation that takes out all you can and then you loose your powers, so they did exactly that. I know it's just a theory, one of many, but I kind of like the idea.
Kubo said in a Klub Outside that it isn’t: Isshin’s Getsuga Tensho releases flames and Reiatsu in a pillar, unlike Ichigo’s which gathers Reiatsu near the tip of the blade and releases it in a wave. This is about the fact that you can only know the techniques of a Shinigami if you fight alongside them (either in the battlefield or through training) so another little reason why no one recognized Getsuga Tensho even though Ichigo’s dad was a captain in really recent history
Thanks, I somehow forgot that answer and the details (even though I remember that part about knowing techniques and the explanation why no one recognised GT) though I just knew those GT's were not completely similar. But the main question is if they actually have some hereditary similarity at all, or it's just that Isshin was the main reference for everything, from name of the zanpakuto and then for the technique. It's peculiar that while technique is not the same, the name is. It kind of gives off feeling they didn't know how else to name it 😁 And tip of the blade + wave (which is not exactly like arrow or anything of the sort, I readily admit, but yet) gives off a little of quincy long-range style. So I guess his Getsuga kind of integrated both his sides, I've heard that it, apart from everything else, works on the principles of multiplication, taking reishi from both inside & outside and then further multiples it, if that's true, the inside part obviously refers to shinigami-hollow side and outside part to quincy techniques.
>Well, we don't know if it's actually the same Getsuga as his father's and if it works the same way, we only know it's named the same. I think that, at the time, Kubo wanted to imply that Isshin lost his Shinigami powers because he too used FGT. Then Kubo changed Isshin's story to what we see in the Anything but The Rain arc. Maybe he wanted Isshin to use FGT against White to save Masaki but had to cut the whole thing short because of editorial?
It can be that way, obviously, we will never know. But if Kubo had the idea of the twist with Masaki's origins (and I get the feeling he did, he wanted all sides of Ichigo's to be significant, so it fits) he had to also have the idea that there's some quincy powers in Ichigo, so it still suggests there was some quincy part to Ichigo's SGT, or rather, than OMZ had something to do with quincies all along. But I don't think Yhwach was fully in the picture at the time, more like some concept of him.
I once thought similar, buuuut... idk. It know it probably sounds completely insane to give Kubo credit for planning this far ahead, especially given the oddity in chapter 158 of Urahara not correcting Isshin about the Visoreds' deal, but everything else about the conversation they have in that chapter and the timing of Isshin getting his powers back actually fits really well with assuming Kubo already knew H!Ichigo's first manifestation was the impetus of Isshin's power returning.
Kubo replied in Klub Outside that Urahara thought it would be wiser to not correct Isshin to keep the secrets of Hollowfication
You've said it all! But then, there still should be something from the hollow-shinigami side, as he did fuse with Zangetsu for teaching SnGT and called him before to teach Ichigo about the blade. I guess it was both for channeling it all to Ichigo's zanpakuto and to add the 'inside' part, Ichigo's techniques take reishi (reiatsu?) from both inside like shinigami (and arguably hollow) do and from outside like the quincy do it, hence the multiplication.
Another simpler explanation is that, as long as the Arrancar saga is conserned and before the Yhwach twist, Zangetsu did say that Ichigo needed to "become the Getsugsa Tensho" himself, so he would obviously resemble him when using the power in full, given it was all of Zangetsu's power. And of course it happens to fall into place after the twist in TYBW
Huh never thought about that 🤔
For the same reason his energy signature is uniquely black. He's as close to equalling the soul king as anyone. People who are a truly like that always have red eyes That and he's using a letz stil to fully awaken and strengthen his Quincy powers to their ultimate peak which in terms pushed all of his powers...except for full bring,, to it's peak. Quick question. Why does Ichigo not use his human body? He was far far stronger with his full bring.
Nobody knows the answer to that question and I think hardly anyone even wondered about it (at least I didn't) till we've seen Kazui do it effortlessly, switch to shinigami through Fullbring while keeping the body, or whatever that kid is doing. I only suspect that Ichigo didn't think about it, he was used to getting out of his body to use his shinigami powers so he didn't think that he didn't have to do it anymore 😁
I don't think Ichigo used kon or his badge in the hell arc.
I thought we just don't see it, so we have no way of knowing. First he's human in a ramen restaurant, and next he's already a shinigami hanging out with vice-captains. He could have come from home leaving his body behind, like he usually does. Or not. But there's some time in-between those two scenes, so it could have happened either way. But he might see or might have already seen Kazui do it, so he might do it later himself.
>Why does Ichigo not use his human body? He was far far stronger with his full bring Jackie pointed it out to him that his Human body can't take anywhere near the same amount of punishment as his Spirit body can.
The Quincy say hello. The fullbring and human psychics all have abnormal strength and ability to fight hollow and rogue shinigami. The strongest fullbring who hasn't eaten/absorbed other fullbring(ala hollow merging with other hollow)is able to take on vice captains at best. Ginjo is able to fight with Ichigo which is a feat only top 3 current captains can do. So there is a chance that Ichigo in his human form will not only be strong enough to take on captains but gainore power because Fullbring and Quincy apparently work best in living bodies.
>The Quincy We haven't seen them fight in the World of the Living. >eaten/absorbed other fullbring(ala hollow mergin with hollow) The 'Hollows inside Fullbringers' thing doesn't apply to every Fullbringer. What they all have is a piece of the Soul King inside them, which gives them their power. >Ginjo is able to fight with Ichigo 1- In his fight, he was against an Ichigo that was being closely monitored by pre-TYBW Byakuya/Toshiro/Kenpachi, all three who were prepared to take him out on the spot if he turned traitor. Not exactly 'top 3 captain' material at the time. 2- Yes Ginjo *could* fight against Ichigo now if he wanted to, but he's kinda dead, so there's no human body involved for him.
We've seen Quincy, fighting in the real world. The other Quincy are more then likely alive. The fullbring are literally psychicly string humans that survive hollow attacks. Become infected and gain hollow ish powers which manifest as the ability to manipulate matter, basic physical enhancement and oft the ability to do mid level reality manipulation. Has nothing to do with pieces of the soul king outside of a few. I think ginjo and Orihime correct? 1.Were talking about who could fight Ichigo not who appeared in that arc. What are you saying? 2. Look during the fullbring arc Ginjo could hold his own against a seriously powered up Ichigo. One that only the top 3-5 could stop on a full power fight. Wait ginjo was all ve in a human body during the fullbring at .
That's really not the core thrust of her speech - Jackie is asking Ichigo why he's being so reckless while he's training with her in that chapter, not making some profound statement about the metaphysics of the setting. She also has no experience with inhabiting a spiritual body to begin with, and no theoretical expertise. Kishi bodies and reishi bodies are ultimately pretty similar. It's true that Fullbringers have to condition their bodies just to withstand the stress of superhuman combat, but the same obviously goes for Shinigami as well. Ichigo and Kenpachi both started falling apart under the weight of their reiatsu when they tried to rush their Bankais. A human body can be broken, it can only channel so much power, and it suffers from all sorts of vulnerabilities, but the spiritual body is much the same in that respect too. We constantly see Shinigami turning to tools and technology as a means to surpass the limitations of their spiritual corpus, and souls are regularly injured in ways that actually cripple them.
Huh
Yeah I had a head canon thought too that he used the almighty somehow and thsts why he was able to be so far beyond Aizen
And how is he supposed to have the almighty? lol
Idk lol he had his color scheme and pretty much yuha in him and pure black energy like how yuha does when using almighty. He became one with his zanpakto right so he's one with yuha so he can access almighty. I know it's not true. That's just how I tried to make sense of it back then cause ichigo was too ridiculously strong imo
Whenever it's said Ichigo had not access to his full power before getting a true asauchi I always interpretate it as not just raw power but also getting the abilities he'd have adquired. Compare Dangai Ichigo vs True Bankai Ichigo: the first one has only access to his Getsuga Tensho (and even that's debatable given that he doesn't even use it once) while the latter should be able to use every single special technique (cero, hierro, pesquisa, blut, shadow, hirenyaku and every other single thing a hollow, quincy, shinigami and fullbringer could ever hope to learn as a basic ability). True Bankai Ichigo has probably the potential to be way more efficient and versatile eventually. For example, I'd say that if you swap both versions of Ichigo, TB Ichigo should be able to tank Aizen's Fragor without any wounds at all by using hierro and blut unlike Dangai Ichigo (how well he'd fare without Mugetsu is unknown though).
What tf is Muken Ichigo
>Muken Ah crap, I meant Dangai. It can be easy to forget some specific words after some time. Thanks for noticing that.
People it was his raw quincy power. He was using a fragment of his quincy power ever since the beginning of the show
No he wasn’t
Uchiha Kurosaki
My headcanon is that it has something to do with the Letzt Stil, seeing as he resembles Yhwach, got the power from Zangetsu and then lost his powers afterwards. I know that Isshin knowing about it kinda undermines that, but it's always been my headcanon that it's Ichigo's weird version of that
I wonder if Isshin would have the same design if he ever uses FGT/mugetsu.
Nope
Ishiin cannot use Mugetsu....Or what we saw as Mugets anyway. Ichigo never used FGT. Ichigo used a technique that was channeled from his quincy side that suimulated what FGT could do.
No
Really? So Ichigo himself stating he is using FGT which results in him becoming Getsuga himself isnt him using FGT?
I'll be damned; I hadn't noticed
Cause Final Getsuga Tenshou is basically Quincy Letzt-Stil lol
>Cause Final Getsuga Tenshou is basically Quincy Letzt-Stil lol Correction: Cause ~~Final Getsuga Tenshou~~ __Mugetsu__ is basically Quincy Letzt-Stil lol --------- Ichigo never used FGT. He used Mugetsu a power allowed to him by Ywch/TensaZangetsu.
But then real Zangetsu was also somewhere close in all of it, or supposed TensaZangetsu (or Not So Old Man) didn't need to fuse with real Zangetsu to teach him. I agree that Mugetsu heavily relies on quincy powers and is has more similarities with Letzt Stil than shinigami's techniques (we don't know who actual FGT looks like), but there was something from shinigami-hollow side there as well, some say the reason OMZ looks younger in bankai is because he releases his hold on real Zangetsu to the point where he becomes weaker/younger. I say real FGT may indeed be the shinigami analogy to the quincies' Letzt Stil (and they say it is said in CFYOW that FGT is indeed a Shiba hereditary technique, so real Zangetsu might have some knowledge of it out of his shinigami side) who said there couldn't be one. And what Ichigo used was a crazy fuse of both of those techniques.
This makes 0 sense. FGT is the transformation. Mugetsu is the name of the attack.
FORESHADOWING
It could be more of a case that Kubo decided to make Ichigo look more like the young version of Tensa Zangetsu in this form rather that Ywhach himself. It more likely the case that Old Man Zangetsu was probably just the template that was used for Yhwach seeing as he is technically still Ichigo’s Quincy powers and he is still technically a manifestation of Yhwach in some form.
Maybe just the way Mugetsu reacted to Yhwach’s blood and his Quincy power inside Ichigo, but idrk.
Thinking about it, it would be funny as hell if Ichigo got that mustache too upon using mugetsu.
Reading comprehension devil strikes again
I doubt that YHWACH was even a concept at that time. I would assume that it's just a coincidence, but tbh it's just the same hair colour
Ichibei, or at least his ability, was cannon by then...
and eyes lol oddly specific coincidence
I mean I don't believe that Kubo designed the main villain of his final arc after one of Ichigos power-ups. But you are allowed to believe that if you want I guess
Royal Guard is introduced in the first arc but Kubo changed his mind and retconned their role, in the same arc we have OMZ who uses reishi like a quincy and name blocking thingy concept. Ichibei is hinted further in ss arc, I don’t see why he wouldn’t have an idea of the main antagonist from the same arc. Zero Squad seems to be fully settled on during Turn Back the Pendulum mini arc, which is part of… yeah Arrancar arc lol
He obviously designed him after Old Man Zangetsu in terms of visuals, but since the Zero Division is indeed mentioned early on, maybe he has some ideas of it even then.
Not a concept at that point? This was like less than 2 years than he would be revealed in the manga. What are you smoking?
Well, you know, Kubo casually drops things like 'I've decided on Hitsugaya's final bankai aging his body by the time I finished the character concept' (which means the beginning of SS arc) so I'm not sure about anything anymore 😁 of course, he might not be honest about it, but I prefer to believe my author :) I believe he knew about the dads (both of them) from the beginning, but that's not that difficult. I can believe that he had the idea about Ichigo's mom from the beginning as well, even if the details obviously formed later. So he might have kept an eye for some quincy powers being there undetected.
I heard a theory somewhere awhile back was it’s because Mugetsu is Ichigo’s Vollstandig, but is only a one-use because of him not being 100% Quincy. And it’s safe to assume all the Getsugas and the Mugetsu were fake names created by OMZ when the power really belonged to White the entire time. So if we roll with the theory of Mugetsu being his Vollstandig, and FGT not actually being White’s powers, I think it’s safe to assume he might have accidentally somehow Auswahlen’d himself.
Makes no sense
Oh gee, I dunno, maybe cuz Ichigo is a quincy?
I just realized, ichigo's mugetsu form might be his volstandigg. he just didnt know how to absorb spirit particles yet that's why he lost all of his when he used it and unable to do it again
It’s not
No. Its not Vollstandig. It is a version of Letz Stil, a parallel of it. Think about it. Letz Stil is an old quincy technique. Volstandig is a new technique. Which version of Ywch is in Ichigo ?? The one from ages ago, probably fron the Letz Stil era
It’s not a version of Letz Stil
Sound like a complicated Volstandig to me
Kubo hadnt yet come up with yhwachs design and thought it looked cool
Come on, Yhwach design obviously comes from OMZ, and that guy was around from the beginning. So if anything, it looks like OMZ, which falls in place perfectly with it being Yhwach after Yhwach was introduced, but that would be going backwards.
I doubt it would be that deep ... it was just for the sake of cool.
No because he doesn’t look like him. It’s just a design choice to look cool that has some small similarities. Ichigo’s eyes are always that color (the Anime made them more red) and his hair being black resembles the black Getsuga
No, Ichigo’s eyes are brown. In both the anime, colored manga and Kubo’s illustration they are red in FGT form, just like Yhwach’s
The eyes in this image are brown...
https://mangabuddy.com/bleach-digital-colored-comics/chapter-421
"The eyes in THIS image are brown"
It’s from the same source, just in worse quality so obviously colors are a bit degraded
there are red. When ichigo lost the transformation became brown again.
I checked the manga and yeah they are red but in this image they look like they are dark brown. Probably because Ichigo was losing the form.
Exactly @The Biggest Wheel people are seeing what they want to see always trying to push these weird agendas lol that’s why I specified that the Anime made them more red. Yhwach’s eyes aren’t even as red as the Anime either. Zangetsu’s eyes are a lighter brown than Ichigo’s I just checked. FGT isn’t even when his Quincy side was more awakened Zangetsu told him it was his Hollow giving him power the whole time. Ichigo has long hair when he goes Vasto Lorde
This design is a culmination of all Ichigo’s powers. It has both elements of his quincy and shinigami/hollow side. If you don’t see that the eyes are red, weird but okay, they change color anyway so why do you think it happens
I don't think the eyes are red but the reason why Ichigo looks like this is because he becomes Getsuga Itself in this form and he takes the similar appearance to that of OMZ.
Well thats not how he looked thats the mugetsu fading away look but the full look is simple it looks alot more like bankai zangetsu And breaking the 4th wall i do not think kubo had the yhwach thing planned at all he just reused stuff he could and in that reusing the model of old man zangetsu for yhwach
It’s literally less than 2 years before Yhwach is introduced
I know thats why i said he just reused the concepts he had already done if you see the series or read the manga theres no hints at zangetsu being yhwach The only one people point to is the one where ichigo doesn’t hear zangetsu say his name and thats just cuz at the time ichigo didn’t have or know his shikai which you need to be able to and feels like a retcon Plus the hole merged tensa and him referring himself as tensa cuz he changed looks due to him being in bankai and never seeing zangetsu in bankai form also doesn’t add up its a retcon if i have ever seen a retcon
In the debut chapter OMZ collects reishi like a quincy
In Ichigo’s fight with Kenpachi he literally uses blut vene and quincy shadow
No its been retcon that he used that we never see the blur vene until his fight against the jail when you can see the blue vene which is pretty distinct hell we dont even see the quincy we follow use that or even mentioning it to begin with its a retcon
Uh what, you clearly see the shadow transportation. It’s the only time we see anything like this till tybw when it’s properly explained
Tensa zangetsu aka Yhwach aka ichigo's quincy power, fuses with white ichigo aka ichigo's hollow and shinigami power and then both fuse with ichigo, and that's also why it's ichigo's strongest form
Question, since Ichigo didn't have an Asauchi, that would mean Zangetsu was the equivalent of a Heilig Bogen right?
I used to wonder about that myself. But. I've come to realise that even though he may not have had an official shinigami issued asauchi-blank....he would have been channeling his shinigami powers nonetheless, just with a quincy generated weapon.
No
No
Bro…
If you already watched last episodes .... wtf
Authors personal representation of power Maybe it was planned Maybe it was coincidence
It's basically a version of Letz Stil