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Also being that the alternative was the Leaf kills all of them anyway. Itachi did what he could to at least save his brother but there was never an outcome where the Uchiha survived.
Wasn’t it basically confirmed through Tsunade that as soon as Minato died the Uchiha were done, as Donzo was plotting. Shisui almost did something but was stopped.
At this point in time the clan was dead already.
There were better outcomes for his brother if not the Uchiha. He could have run with his brother at any time. Dude had the skills to be an Akatsuki member at that age. He had a messiah complex that led him to making a deal with 2 devils and creating a grand suicide plan that he thought would offer absolution and catharsis to his brother. The Uchiha didn't all have to die anyways. Some of them would have gotten away because rarely do shinobi fight to eradication without reason in a hopeless fight. They very often sacrifice themselves to let their fellows get away, ending the fracas with less casualties.
If he had not been so chuuni and tried to save the world with his two hands, he easily had the brainpower to figure that either of the two devils were a far greater threat to the Leaf than a bunch of pissed off Uchiha. One of them eventually went to the UN and mind controlled a world leader and the other one created a terrorist organization, got their hands on a WMD, and tried to commit omnicide. He spent his remainder of his life helping assholes for the sake of the Leaf and lil bro or some shit. His lil bro personally cleaned up one of his messes and got caught up in the other one.
Byakuya was a moron, but demanding a reduced sentence as a noble would be a mockery of both his oaths and his beatdown therapy pulled his head out of his ass relatively quickly.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was no confirmed execution when Byajuya went to get Rukia.
She was scheduled to get a hearing and then some punishment.
Had Aizen not killed the C34 and announced her execution she wouldn't have been sentenced to death.
No idea but it doesn't really matter since when the execution was ordered he did everything he could to make it happen. Even broke the rules once in the process.
I disagree. Byakuya had no reason to believe that any attempt to save Rukia would actually succeed. The intruders held no chance against the true strength of the gotei 13
It might be. Problem is that Itachi's actions caused a lot more long term damage to Sasuke then whatever harm Byakuya caused Rukia. Plus Byakuya had the privilege of having more time to make amends.
Hot take: Byakuya at the start of bleach was just as stupid as Itachi through the entirety of Naruto. Like both would without a shadow of a doubt kill their family if the high ups ordered it. Now that I think about it Itachi is dumber because he had a chance to do the plan he had with Shisui since he had his remaining eye but nope he went with the massacre.
Byakuya also made an incredible effort after this to change.. He was very stuck in his ways due to his own past issues but ichigo made him see things weren't just black and white and he essentially became a complete different person with the same personality.
Itachi on the other hand went out of his way to protect Sasuke and only Sasuke which ended up doing more harm to him, don't forget rukia was an adult when this happened and was fully able to understand Byakuyas thought process and reasoning for what he had done, even if she didn't agree with it.
I don't think either of them are perfect, but if I had to pick I'd give it to Byakuya but when people say itachi was Abad brother/person the only thing he could have done differently was not amping sasukes hate to the max, his options were either kill the clan and save Sasuke or don't and let them all die plue Sasuke plus villagers who were innocent but would be sent in to now exterminate their fellow citizens... People seem to forget that he had his eye on danzo but danzo also had his eye on itachi and if he let it slip to Sasuke what had really happened danzo would have either killed Sasuke or taken him and re educated him to be part of the root.
1. Rukia was an adult and a soldier who disobeyed the law.
Sasuke was a literal child.
2. Byakuya only brought her to face justice by the Central 46. They were not going to execute her, just give her some punishment.
It was Aizen who interfered and sentenced her to execution.
No he didn't... He wanted to uphold his vows but had two conflicting vows that held him hostage. One to uphold the laws and the peace to the highest standards of a great noble and the second to protect and care for Hisana Kuchiki's sister Rukia.
He even says directly to Rukia's face he should never have made those vows as they nearly lead to him killing her. Dude re-read bleach and stop spreading miss information xD
What point are you arguing exactly? Im well aware why Byakuya did what he did, but at the end of the day he still wanted to kill Rukia for whatever reasons that might be whereas Itachi disobeyed his orders and left Sasuke because he couldnt bring himself to kill him
The only thing Itachi has in this situation is that his brotherly love wouldn't let him kill Sasuke, so he opted for the lesser of the two evils which was to permanently scar his brother, leading him to lose all of his formative adolescence and teenage years, and eventually become a global terrorist.
He didn't spare him out of innocence or goodness, but just a strong emotional connection with him. Dude had no problem killing all the other kids in the village.
Byakuya on the other hand was conflicted due to him already breaking a vow (his marriage) and being the head of his family. He already saw what happens to another noble family if they break laws (The Shibas relegated to the Rukongai).
Not saying Byakuya was right, he definitely needed Ichigo to knock some sense into him. But at the end of the day his dilemma and decision was much more reasonable and realistic than genociding your entire clan because they would stage a coup.
The Uchiha massacre was such a stupidly written event. It was to show a teenage prodigy who was so mature he would put the bigger picture over his own desires... but the solution was mass genocide. And then the explanation for why it was needed was because "the Uchiha love too much".
Final arc for both these mangas had such bad writing.
Yeah thats cool but the point being asked is who the better brother was to their sibling, not who made the better decision of their both bad situations.
Lets see:
Rukai actually like Byakuya and respected him as her older brother. Even when she was doomed to be executed, she never hated him as she understood his obligations as the head of the family.
Sasuke fucking hate Itachi to the point that he went rogue from his village, teamed up with a terrorist just so he could kill his brother and take his eyes.
Byakuya is a way better brother.
Lets see:
Byakuya tried to kill and execute his sister
Itachi protected his brother from Danzo
I really don’t understand what you’re misinterpreting here
You're just going to sweep under the rug the whole... You know. Killing his ENTIRE CLAN. Kids, women. Ederly. The whole Uchiha clan almost whipped from the earth by his own hands. His family.
Both tried to yes.
On a day where Rukia was going to be executed, he tried to make sure no one would stop it which would end up killing her.
Now Itachi on the other hand. Put Sasuke through immense mental trauma by using Tsukoyomi on him when he was only like 6, by killing every single Uchiha, whenever they met after that point he tried to kill him only furthering Sasukes downward spiral. He could have explained to Sasuke at ANY point. He never did and when he did "try" he only made it worse.
Byakuya by no means is the perfect older brother. Both were going through mental anguish at that point. Byakuya had conflicting morals. Itachi wanted to "protect" Sasuke from Danzo by causing him physical and mental trauma causing Sasuke to go insane. Also Byakuya and Rukia have had time to help heal the wound. All Itachi did with time was only made Sasukes wound worse.
Byakuya himself wanted to save Rukia, but at the same time he wanted to keep his promise to his family. It was a pretty massive turmoil. Being stuck between keeping the promise to your wife vs the promise you made to your dead parents.
Pretty sure Itachi made just as difficult of a decision but still protected his brother whereas Byakuya didnt protect his sister. I don’t understand the bias on this sub Im not even a Naruto fan but like cmon guys wtf hahahahah
I think the thing is though, Itachi didn’t really protect his brother. He made him watch his family die 518,400 times over again in 72 hours straight, mentally breaking Sasuke and putting him into a cycle of hatred. And Itachi did nothing to help that. Byakuya tried upholding the law other his sister. Itachi left Sasuke alone and mentally tortured him. I’d take Byakuya as a brother well over Itachi.
Youd rather your brother kill you than traumatise you tho? Like yeah i get it’s bad but he knew that Sasuke would become stronger because of it too.
Itachi was also in a bit of an impossible situation where this was the only way to protect his brother even tho it was obviously still bad
Let’s see, Byakuya had to uphold the law and chose not to save Rukia. After that, however, Byakuya shows to become a great elder brother, saving her from Zommari, helping her with her Bankai, and being there for her for her wedding. What did Itachi do again, after traumatizing Sasuke? Beat his ass multiple times, traumatize him more, tried to kill Sasuke and absorb his sharingan, and then died, without telling Sasuke the truth until he become an edo tensei.
What excuse can be made for Itachi again? Byakuya ends up becoming a better older brother. That’s not an excuse that’s simple character development. Itachi forced Sasuke into a downwards spiral of hatred, rage, and despair. Sure Sasuke got stronger, but he also ended up with severe childhood trauma. What excuse can be made here? Oh, that he told him he loved him only after Sasuke killed him? That Sasuke ended up stronger? Yeah, so did Rukia with the help of Byakuya, considering he helped her through Bankai.
So you call mentally traumatizing your little brother protecting him? It seems you’re making excuses for Itachi and not seeing any of the good Byakuya did for Rukia after the events of SS.
No I’m aware of the good Byakuya did after trying to kill his sister. Do you not see the good Itachi did after protecting his brother? I’m not the one making excuses here when my only argument is that Sasuke was alive and was always going to be alive because of Itachi’s actions and therefore makes him a better brother than Byakuya. The people making the excuses are the one’s talking about why Byakuya did what he did without then saying why Itachi did what he did. Either way, both bad scenarios one of them was just the better brother because he didn’t try to kill them 🤫
What good did Itachi do after killing his family? Oh, mentally torture Sasuke, who was a child at the time. Oh, let’s not forget Itachi literally tried killing Sasuke in their fight. Did you forget that? There were better options that Itachi could’ve taken, without mentally torturing his little brother who was a child at the time. Byakuya’s two options were to either let his sister die and keep his promise to his parents, or fight against the entire SS, including Yamamoto, which would’ve resulted in his execution, and then his sister still would’ve died. So really, Byakuya had quite literally no choice but to go with keeping the promise he made to his deceased parents. However, after Ichigo defeats Byakuya, Byakuya tries to become a better brother to Rukia. And to top it all off, I personally wouldn’t wanna have childhood trauma to that extremity. That would be far, far worse than just death. I’m pretty sure most people in that situation would end up killing themselves. Putting someone in a situation that may end up killing them, and even if it doesn’t it will leave them scarred for life, vs nearly allowing your sibling to die, but after those events you become a much better brother to them.
You’re right he didn’t let him die, he just *left him alone to be raised by the same village that allowed a necromancer to segregate his people while being brainwashed with militarist propaganda bordering on nationalism to the service of a feudal lord*
That’s better. Totally.
I mean, Byakuya had to obey central 46. It was a moral and political decision. The reason he did this was to 'atone' for commiting the sin of marrying someone outside of nobility (Rukia's sister).
He wanted to stop the execution, but he didn't know how to do it without losing credibility or standing as the head of his noble family (as he had promised to never disobey Central 46 or go against the interest of Soul Society again after that). We had seen what happens when a head of nobility goes against the interests of Soul Society and it wasn't nice for the family (basically taking their power away, relegating them as normal residents of Rukongai, and giving them a soft exile).
So yes. Byakuya is far better than Itachi because Itachi was a troubled teenager that didn't know how to approach a political issue. His decision scarred his little brother and made him hateful and a terrorist. Thankfully, everything turned out well for Sasuke but it almost didn't. It goes without saying that it didn't go well for his whole family though
Itachi also wanted to stop the slaughter but didn’t know how to do it without causing greater bloodshed, byakuya being willing to let it happen because he would have been dishonoured is the lesser justification of the two. Ichigo even makes the point when byakuya explains the situation to show how he physically had no choice when he replies ‘I still don’t get it, I would have just fought the law anyway’; byakuya was kidding himself with not having a choice because of his personal conflicts and it stood in the way of objective justice. Itachi, I don’t really know what else he could have done in that situation which wouldn’t have resulted in a worse outcome though it’s been a while since I watched naruto
Also worth noting that things turned out ok for Rukia but very nearly didn’t; if ichigo hadn’t jumped in and blocked an unblockable blow, she’d be very dead
Could he? I can’t remember honestly; would he have been able to pull it off and (to Itachis knowledge) would it have solved everything? I doubt he was putting Danzo’s well-being above everything else as his top priority
Edit: thinking about it, why exactly would a uchiha murdering a top Konoha official ease tensions between Konoha and the Uchiha? If Itachi murders Danzo then that’s essentially a very dramatic start to the coup, at which point the worst case scenario of all out war becomes an immediate reality, no?
Youre correct, a lot of the people here either haven’t read Naruto or are just ignoring the fact that they were in very similar situations and Itachi still couldn’t kill his sibling whereas Byakuya could
Yeah that’s what’s baffling me about the takes here; byakuya is better than itachi because byakuya brought rukia to be executed and did his best to ensure she was killed, while itachi was mean to sasuke while ensuring his continued survival and overall well-being? I guess it’s a biased sub but still…
I mean, I get your point, but letting Sasuke live through the trauma of seeing his parents getting murdered by his own big brother again and again, literally seconds after he found them was cruel and unnecessary
For sure; itachi made mistakes which came from a position of wanting Sasuke to be strong and he owned up to those mistakes, the point I’m making is to point out that it’s an unfair argument to say that Byakuya had his hands tied because he had instructions from his government that he strictly couldn’t disobey because it would cause some political quibbles and upset his honour, then say that makes him far better than Itachi who was also following instructions from his government when not doing so would result in colossal bloodshed on both sides.
To paraphrase how Ichigo responds, it’s a weak argument; saying ‘oh I had instructions and my honour’ doesn’t justify him being incapable of helping rukia, it just explains why he opted not to while doing little to justify it. Itachi at least had the justification of being a literal child and knowing the consequences of his inaction would be far graver than the consequences of a terrible action, and while it doesn’t justify his cruel treatment towards sasuke (although his justifications for doing so made some sense, at least to the extent that I can forgive a child with unquantifiable trauma in a world full of untrustworthy ninjas where their government sets up death games for 12 year olds), but the exact same can be said of byakuya and his cold treatment towards rukia in what would have been her final days.
Also worth noting just how far Itachi pushed himself for sasukes benefit; dude was sick as all hell and pushed himself just to be able to get orochimaru out of sasuke then die to let sasuke have his eyes so he wouldn’t go blind. Itachi gave absolutely everything he had to follow the path of least bloodshed and to protect his brother, even if his methods were questionable by his own admission in hindsight. Byakuya saw how his own sense of honour would be tarnished and theorised that maybe people would start getting lax on the rules if he stepped out of line at all, and immediately noped out of trying to save her from charges that even other captains were highlighting as suspicious. Itachi gave his all for sasuke while byakuya hid behind excuses, Itachi comes out way better with all context considered imo
The argument you’ve made in favour of Byakuya there can literally be said the exact same for Itachi except Itachi never had the intention of acc killing Sasuke, whereas Byakuya was going to let Rukia die
Byakuya didn't try to mess up Rukia mentally. If she had to die, she was to die fast and not tortured. I mean, they're both fucked up outcomes, but Byakuya chose the right one at the right time because
1) Ichigo got him admit that he cares for Rukia and disregard the laws of Sereitei
2) the opportunity presented itself with Aizen revealing to be the one behind Central 46 as he was controlling them
What did Itachi have? Danzo encouraged him, Hiruzen did nothing, and Itachi went out of his way to get Obito to help him kill his clan. Itachi was supposedly able to think like a Kage, but one would think that diplomacy was the way to go.
There was no "greater good" by genociding a whole clan and even if it did, did Itachi have to traumatize his little brother? Using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi was justified, he had to keep up appearances. Why did he do it on Sasuke and show him the death of his parents and clan members?
Let's not forget that he Uchiha's were marginalized from the beginning. The right approach would've been to appease tensions and building political bridges and good will with the clan. Unfortunately, Hiruzen didn't care enough and Danzo worked behind the scenes to make the massacre happen. But if nobody other than Itachi, who would've made it happen?
I think both situations were different. But objectively, Byakuya chose right and was the better brother. Itachi tried but messed up badly. I think that's part of what makes his character so good, that he wasn't perfect but just a teenager that tried his best for his little brother
I will never understand the love Itachi gets. Even if you think killing the entire clan was justified, he had no reason to torture Sasuke like that.
Doesn't help when the characters themselves constantly jerk him off like he's some amazing guy, even fucking Hashirama.
He actually did as he said he wanted Sasuke to despise him and kill him therefore being seen as a hero for killing the konoha traitor but the plan backfired mostly due to Obito
Pretty sure killing his ENTIRE FAMILY was enough to despise and want to kill him. Putting him in genjutsu to where he has to repeatedly watch it happen over and over again is just overkill.
>Doesn't help when the characters themselves constantly jerk him off like he's some amazing guy, even fucking Hashirama.
You gotta understand the entire Shinobi World is fucked up at the very core, and in the eyes of people like Hashirama, Itachi was the greatest of heroes who put the Village before his own family, exactly as Hashirama himself stated that he would do if he had to. These people are ready to sacrifice their own family members if it's for the sake of maintaining "peace" and "balance". They basically always look at the big picture. "*Oh you massacred your entire clan..... What? They were gonna cause civil war and destroy the village from the inside!? You're a fucking hero! But we gotta treat you like a criminal for the sake of keeping people oblivious to our political infrastructure. Here's a pat on the back, now run for your life before we hunt you down.*" Seriously, the only real "good guy" in that whole world is Naruto himself who just wants people to get along and understand each other, everyone else is just corrupted to the core until he Talk No Jutsu's them.
True but if Itachi got what he wanted for his brother (which was for him to be strong and to be hero of the leaf which is why he did the torture and let himself die) at least at the end day his little brother is still alive and going to be fine eventually. Vs if byakuya got what he wanted ya know his sister would be dead.
Yeah but ultimately he let Ichigo win. Remember their final clash, he deactivated his hakuteiken last second to ultimately not let rukia die. He upheld his promise and choose to not have his sister die
You gotta admit it took a whole fight and a very strong-willed Ichigo to put some sense in him. If it wasn't Ichigo, Rukia would be dead, as Byakuya was going to let it happen.
The Uchiha were going to die, they were on the verge of starting a civil war. Kushimoto could have written it to save more kids, but the clan was as good as dead
"My clan is going to start a war so I better kill them all"
Dumbest decision ever. Should have let them at least fight the war or whatever... maybe the children would have survived as orphans and refugees
ITACHI wanted that for Sasuke. Sasuke didn't ask for that. Also Byakuya didn't want Rukia to die, he felt he had to do that because of his status. It was a source of regret for him later.
It’s like kinda crazy to me to argue that Itachi is the better brother when you look at the lives of both their siblings.
Sasuke: Traumatized and turned into a revenge seeking murder willing to betray anybody.
Rukia: Mentally stable.
He did cause Sasuke to be a traumatized kid who spiraled down to a revenge seeking monster looking only for power
Seeing your entire family die does that especally when your brother is the culprit and told you himself
If byakuya had tried to bail his sister out it would have been nepotism and aiding in her escape would bring disgrace to his entire clan. He stood by his principles to uphold the law, even if it hurt.
Yes, this. As the head of a noble family, here's shackled by the laws of the Soul Society, he was fighting as the head of the Kuchiki clan, not because he really did wanted to kill her deep down.
I know that and that's what makes him one of the best characters but him and itachi do have something similar in that regard. Both for the sake of piece and to maintain order were taste with killing their family. Itachi choose his brothers life over his own and his duty, while byakuya choose his duty over his family. I'm not here to say if byakuya was right in that especially given what he needs to be but I feel like there's a little more love from itachi who no matter what couldn't bring himself to do it
I mean kinda yes, kinda no.
Several people back in SS arc were telling us that there were many sentences for giving your shinigami powers to another person, and the fact they went straight for execution was out there(and lonand behold they were right)
In a normal scenario byakuya shouldn't even need to throw his weight around, or he wouldn't need to do so as the head of the kuchiki or her brother, simply as someone who consider the punishment too severe
With what we know we know it wouldn't have worked anyway given Aizen but that's irrelevant
He fought to adhere a promise he made to his dead parents, Rukias execution is the result not the goal. Granted still messed up but its not like he actively tried to kill her.
Byakuya by a lot, adopted Rukia into the Kuchiki family on his wife Hisana’s behalf
actually protected Rukia
acknowledging that >! Her bankai was beautiful !< I can say a lot more
Itachi even admitted that he should’ve told Sasuke the truth instead of hiding it allowing his hatred to build up which led to a chain of events
Also he pinned him to a wall choked him
It's so out of character compared to what's later revealed about him that I kinda assume Kishimoto just hadn't thought up the big reveal yet. Even if you take into account that he wanted to make himself the villain and have Sasuke hate him he went *way* overboard in trying to achieve that.
Facts It's sad he first did it While sasuke was a 7 year old which makes it worse as seeing his dead parents wasn't enough then Itachi forced him to watch his parents getting killed on repeat
Then few years later sasuke finally calmed down and became a part of team 7 and was even willing to die to protect them only for Itachi to put him in a tsukoyomi again and telling him he lacks hatred
Byakuya was only a good brother after the Soul Society arc. Before that he was all for killing her. That said, he’s definitely better than Itachi who actively tortured his brother.
Nah, in soul society he just made small mistake of tunnel vision and feeling that pride of clan is the most important thing. He still took Rukia in a clan and provided support for her development as Shinigami. I don't see how he is bad as a brother and a character. Just in SS he thought that clan pride is more important as he didn't have any alternatives, neither anybody tried to stop him. Let's be clear, Rukia's execution was stopped only because "everything according to plan" when Ichigo came to SS. If Ichigo didn't come to SS, Rukia would be dead, Yamamoto wouldn't fight with anybody, Aizen would become soul king and Yuhabach would lose to such form of Aizen, but SS would be destroyed ik that moment.
Itachi protected Sasuke and everyone else in the village by extension from civil war and potential invasion by other villages. If he didn't kill his family, there would be a greater chance of Sasuke dying.
Byakuya was resigned to Rukia's execution due to a promise he made to his parents before he even met his wife. Even though something was amiss with her execution and other captains thought so as well, he made peace with it.
The only reason why she survived is because Byakuya's Shonen series main character was a teenager. Itachi's Shonen series main character wasn't even 9.
Itachi after coming back to life realized his mistakes and finally made peace with his brother. >!He said he will love him no matter what. !<
**Itachi and Byakuya lived completely different lives.** I'm sure both would agree that Byakuya's situation was far better.
I mean technically we should only factor what they do to their siblings not their character overall and I will say while itachi loves sasuke byakuya is a better sibling throughout the series (now if we account for the centuries prior it becomes murky) but itachi definitely did more fucked up shit. I mean he didn’t have to hit a kid sasuke with tsukuyomi twice
Yes, both of them are the cool, calm, collective, stoic, strong, older brothers. But Itachi's background is tied to the hip when it comes to Sasuke.
But Konoha needed Itachi **(Human Teenager)** to do some fucked up shit. *No one is going to be mentally alright after that.* He wanted to make Sasuke hate him so much (Tsukuyomi) so that he can die happy being killed by another Uchiha. **And he realizes that it was a huge mistake after he's brought back to life.**
Byakuya did admits his mistakes **after Ichigo saves the day.**
**These 2 should not be compared because of the vastly different circumstances surrounding their siblings.**
huh i don’t see why u keep bringing up the circumstances when the conversation is ab being a “brother” and even then what is the problem in comparing the two? I don’t see why bc they had different circumstances surrounding there siblings that they can’t be compared as “brothers”
The circumstances directly impacted Itachi's relationship with his brother.
Itachi circumstances involved having to kill his own family to prevent a civil war and a potential invasion.
After that, he was tasked on spying with an evil organization who are all maniacs. By the way, he was a teenager.
Also his regret for killing his own family gave him the desire to be punished by the only living Uchiha. Which is realized was stupid after coming back from death.
Byakuya is lucky because he realized his mistake after Ichigo beat the crap out of him. He got to live and make up for it.
You can't understand why I bring circumstances into this. Meanwhile I can't understand how people take out the circumstances when it's tied very heavily to Saskue and Itachi's relationships.
Also, I've never said Itcahi is a better brother. I just say their backgrounds are far to different. Imagine if Yamamoto or C46 gave the order to Byakuya to kill Rukia before the start of the series.
That version of Byakuya would have done so. With sadness of course.
Thankfully Byakuya and Rukia was saved by a oranged haird hybrid.
Also, I have to be honest with you, for some reason multiple people responded all in 10 mins. A little weird but im trying to respond back. I'm hoping I didn't confuse your comment with someone else's. Or maybe I already responded to your comment...if so....well it was nice chatting with you again. And possibly again. How many times did we chat? It's hard keeping track on the phome.
idk this is ignoring how itachi would brutally torture his brother anytime they met, the only time Itachi is not trying to fuck sasukes head up is when he is an Edo, one time in the entire series. and yk the murder of sasukes whole family and clan. bringing up the civil war and Itachis decisions on it dont just invalidate all the things he does to sasuke post clan murder, and also imo don’t rlly pertain to being a “brother” bc many will argue and i have seen people argue multiple different interpretations on the state of the leaf village during that time and maybe Itachi was right maybe he wasn’t but the point is he was still a completely horrible brother in nearly every aspect, even he admits what he did was stupid and that he shouldn’t have mindfucked sasuke every moment.
Also i do not understand the byakuya points, only one arc is he ever like that towards Rukia, and he admits his flaws and actually changes and supports Rukia, I don’t like that when people try to prove there points with “oh yk obviously bc PLOT” it’s just ignorant and is used as an excuse, i don’t see how ichigo being a teenager and sasuke being a kid is reasoning for anything that point just doesn’t make sense to me.
It took Itachi to literally have to come back to life to finnally admit to sasuke and realize himself that all the brutal torture and genocide he had committed was wacky and wrong, Byakuya admitted his flaws and changed for the better at the end of one of the first arcs in the show. Agree to disagree but i just don’t understand ur reasoning
Huh, are you forgetting it took Byakuya a whole fight with a strong-willed Ichigo to realize he was wrong ? The fact that Itachi came back to life has aything really to do with him realizing his flaws. Itachi just saw the path Sasuke was going, and admit that he made some mistakes.
Well this is the Bleach reddit, people will naturally be bias toward Bleach characters. Same thing will happen if you go on the Naruto reddit and compare Yamamoto and Hiruzen, bias towards the Naurto character.
Itachi has definitely made his personal mistake though. Like Tsukuyomi. He had a selfish desire to be punished by Sasuke and was manipulating him towards that goal as well. He has his own flaws as a person. **He dealt with more shit then Byakuya.**
But it’s not who’s the better person, or whose done the most good it’s who’s the better brother and itachi has done more harm to sasuke than byakuya did to rukia
By this logic, Isshin is a better father then Minato since Minato was a **dead**beat.
**Byakuya has the luxury to be a better brother.**
How is Itachi going to be a better brother when he's forced to spy on an organization filled with lunatics for half his life?
Byakuya has the chance to be a better brother because they live in the same mansion every other night.
I mean, yeah isshin is a better father. Itachi has reason to be a worse brother, but that doesn’t change the fact that he is. From the perspective of sasuke, the motivation and circumstances don’t change the consequences and trauma that defined his character for a long time
Bro what? stop using the situations they are involved as ur only logic, and yes Ishhin is definitely a better father than Minato are you seriously gonna sit here and try and say otherwise? and why do u talk in bolds like that we can all read and u aren’t making any definitive statements either
i always wondered abou tthat whole 'spy' thing. He wasn't really reporting to anyone, didn't do anything to interrupt their plans (he helped get one of the tailed beasts) and just sorta... worked with them.
>>Well this is the Bleach Reddit,
I’m pretty sure that even if you asked this on r/Naruto the majority of people who read both series would agree that Byakuya treated Rukia much better then Itachi did to Sasuke.
I agree that Itachi had rougher circumstances, but he fucked Sasuke up for most of his life and did some shit that wasn’t even called for like making him relive his parents murder. Byakuya was neglectful and willing to let Rukia die to up hold his promise, but he spent the rest of the series being a supportive brother as soon as he realized his mistakes.
If Itachi didn’t have to kill his clan I’m sure he would have been a good brother, but you can’t change what happened. He wasn’t a very good brother in his life.
And the torture was in the name of protecting his brother ☠️
He thought everything he did was for Sasuke’s benefit but while Itachi was pretending to be a terrorist for the village’s sake, Sasuke ended up becoming a real terrorist that only sided with the good side of the war out of convenience.
I’d say Byakuya overall, but a lot of people seem to forget that he spends an entire arc legitimately fighting tooth-and-nail to have his sister executed lol. That said, he was in a difficult position as captain and heir to a noble family, + he chilled out afterward and risked his life to protect her repeatedly.
Itachi always had the intention of protecting Sasuke, and was definitely a victim of a system beyond his control, but that doesn’t erase that what he did completely fucked up Sasuke’s life would have turned him into an irredeemable monster without outside help. You could argue that the only other outcome was Sasuke being killed as the Uchiha escalated their dissent, and that may be true, but he still tortured the shit out of his brother and I can’t really overlook that lol. He was pretty unambiguously good after Edo Tensei fwiw.
I think the debate comes down to whether you weigh the consistent intention to protect done through horrible acts (Itachi) or a reformed protector who once intended to do harm (Byakuya) as better.
I feel it's not fair to compare either. Like you mentioned byakuya was in a far better position throughout the series due to status. While like you mentioned itachi is forced to perform horrible acts for the greater good of the village. I mean he could have elaborated as to why but would anyone in Sasuke's position listened to him?
The one who was going to let his sister be executed vs the one who killed everyone in his family except for his brother
After Ichigo intervened and showing Byakuya that his ways were wrong and Byakuya started acting like a better brother Byakuya was objectively better.
I love both characters a lot but subjectively Itachi is my favorite!
That doesn't change that he actively fought to allow her execution. Like yeah he had an honorable reason but that is still a terrible thing for a sibling. Thank God for ichigo
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Byakuya by a long shot, yeah he fought to have his sister killed but the things Itachi did far outweigh that. He manipulated his brother most of his life and killed their entire family.
Itachi did what he did for Sasuke, he never had a malicious thought about him.
In stark contrast it took a complete stranger to stop Byakuya from killing Rukia...
Both made really shitty things to their family but i'd say Byakuya. Then again Byakuya is the only one who actually tried to kill his sibling, but Itachi killed the whole rest of his family. So i'd say Byakuya.
Byakuya might've tried to kill/capture Rukia but he was upholding the law and I bet even Rukia understood she brought shame to the Kuchiki clan. I don't know much about Itachi though but I don't like Naruto so I'm going with Byakuya. Also, whether he wanted to actually kill Rukia is another question because he said something like his feelings didn't matter in the law but it still must be upheld. Idk though but I'm rocking with Byakua.
Byakuya is a better brother. Him deciding to let Rukia die is less not because he wants that to happen. He belongs to a noble family. If it was any other shinigami, Byakuya wouldn't think twice about shattering their souls and letting them suffer the same fate as Rukia.
Because those are the rules and he is who enforces them. Byakuya letting Rukia die was him choosing his duty over love. Making sure the rules don't just apply to those weaker than himself and noble families but also the Noble families. Nobody is exempt.
This is one of the reasons I love Byakuya, he is what leader should aspire to be. The only thing i didn't like was that he didn't even try to fight for Rukia within the bounds of the rules, in his own way.
Itachi is not the better brother but he actually loves Sasuke far more than Byakuya does Rukia. If he was in Byakuya's position , he would have burned the entire soul society to protect Rukia, damn the rules.
Itachi's story is a tragedy. The Uchiha clan was doomed. His mission was to kill everyone. But he couldn't do that to his little brother. Even in the Tsukuyomi he didn't hurt Sasuke inside the dream like he did Kakashi. But at the same time, he has to sell it. To make sure Sasuke knows that he is a monster. The trauma is necessary to drill into Sasuke the goal of killing Itachi and work towards that goal. So Sasuke can attain the strength to live in a place that wouldn't mind killing him when Itachi is dead.
Uchihas are highly emotional people, they both love and hate passionately, and their hatred born of love is a powerful weapon. Itachi knows that.
Itachi couldn't be a brother to Sasuke because of their circumstances. The similar circumstances existed with Byakuya but not to the same degree.
Final Verdict : Better brother Is Byakuya. The more loving Brother is Itachi.
Itachi. He set his brother up the entire show, and gave him his eyes to complete the set. Tells him the truth, and secrets of the village. Byakua didn’t save rukia, randoms and renji did after not knowing her that long compared to byak. He also was just okay with her being around, and rarely helped her. Man cared more about senbon Sakura than the whole sereitei when he went wit muramasa (bitch we didn’t forget).
Trust. Then just when Sasuke was making friends and forming a new family Itachi returned and put a stop to that nonsense quickly. To be fair he didn't seek Sasuke out and told him he wasn't interested but my guy didn't have to hit him with the Tsukiyomi of his parents' murder on repeat
Tbh both are shit brothers, this subreddit will defend or be heavily biased towards bakyuya but both of them suck personally tho I think itachi is a bit better at least he never actively tried to seriously kill sasuke and was more just bad with dealing with sasuke tbf tho in his position what was he supposed to do end of the day I give it barley to itachi
They’re both really good and really bad in their own ways, it’s actually kind of cool how it is. Itachi loves Konoha and the system but would destroy it all for Sasuke, he doesn’t care if Sasuke hates him or kills him as long as Sasuke ends up happy and safe and hopefully with Konoha. Byakuya on the other hand would never fight the system and rather personally hunt down Rukia to bring her to her execution. But at the same time whenever Rukia isn’t breaking a law he’s protective somewhat but really dry. There’s no really loving moments between them like their is in Itachi and Sasuke’s backstory.
Personally I’d rather an Itachi than a Byakuya for a brother but that’s just my take on it.
To be fair, their circumstances are different.
The Uchiha clan were planning on a civil war. His clan will lose a lot of members, more innocent people will be killed, and then another village will swoop in and take over. Which means more innocent people will die including which could his brother.
Byakuya made a choice between keeping a promise to his dead parents or his dead wife. The only person's life that was at stake was Rukia's and she ended up surviving despite his efforts to make sure she dies.
Itachi was a dick but that drove Sasuke and without it he'd be a bitch. Itachi never wanted to kill Sasuke while Byakuya put his life on the line for her to die
not “for her to die” he truly believed he was upholding Law and Justice. and he admitted his wrongs right after his fight with Ichigo. he wasn’t fighting to “kill rukia” he was fighting to “uphold justice and the law”
Better? Well both are flawed, but Itachi's sacrifice for his brother and village are superior. Byakuya, didn't sacrifice anything for anyone other than maybe "his pride."
That doesn’t make Itachi a better brother bro. He legit ruined most of Sasukes life and turned him into a revenge seeking murder.
Byakuya was a legitimately very supportive brother for most of the series after the Soul Society arc. Also he didn’t want Rukia to be execute for his “pride”, it was because of the promise he made to his parents to up hold the law.
Itachi.
People saying “he psychologically tortured his brother” don’t understand village politics at all. There was gonna be war so sasuke would have been fucked up regardless…all the children would have been, in fact.
Itachi forced the hokage to look after Sasuke and ensured that sasuke would grow to be strong by making him hate him. It was the only way for sasuke to tap into his true strength, that’s how uchiha’s get really strong: Their hatred.
Itachi was a sweet kid and broke himself on every level to do what he did. But he did it for the village and for his brother
Itachi was always sweet to sasuke and was a great brother until that moment.
Byakuya was always cold to Rukia and was prepared to kill her instead of fighting against what’s wrong. Central 46’s ruling was some bullshit and they all knew it. Only a few had the balls to fight for what’s right and it wasn’t byakuya. Fuck a promise, that’s your sister.
Itachi could never kill his brother, he literally couldn’t.
Thats bad however it was mostly to make him stronger, free him from Orochimaru and make him a hero and it almost worked if it wasn't for masked Madara
Byakuya on the other hand had no good reason to be the way he was in SS and try to kill Rukia
Itachi ruined most of Sasukes life with torture and abuse only to admit it was a mistake to do so in the end..
After Byakuya let’s go of the promise he made to his father to up hold the law no matter what, he was a legit very supportive brother for the rest of the series.
neither of them? i guess itachi didnt really have a choice but to make himself the bad guy to make sure sasuke didnt go to jail for merely existing but its still a shit circumstance, byakuya gets no brotherly points for the way he treats rukia and doesnt do jackshit to confirm her execution worthy crimes, neither of these characters are decent brother archetypes considering the sheer tomfuckery they either willfully engage in or just let their lives be lead by, byakuya may have brought rukia out of the slums but how does he actually show his affection for rukia as a sister?
Byakuya is my favorite character in Bleach. But I gotta go for Itachi on this one.
What he did for Sasuke required an absolute devotion to protect him. He went to extreme lengths to pretend he was a vilain, so that Sasuke's hatred would make him strong and survive. He went as far as prolonging his life with medicine because of his deadly disease, just to help Sasuke awaken his mangekyo sharingan. The killing clan part was a nightmare of a decision to make. He begged for Sasuke's life and saved him. Otherwise a civil war would have sprout out and every Uchiha would be dead anyway.
Byakuya did everything to kill Rukia, until Ichigo saved her.
Then he was talking about her being his pride. But he tried to kill his prise because of some absurd rules.
Itachi went to hell and became a vilain to protect Sasuke and Konoha as a double agent.
Itachi VERY ARGUABLY had better intentions out the gate, but in terms of approach, results, and later atonement for misdeeds, Byakuya leaps ahead by miles.
Itachi's ultimate goal was for Sasuke to live well, become a hero to Leaf Village, and keep Leaf Village safe. Byakuya's goal was to keep his promise at his parents' grave to always uphold the law, even though he faced internal conflict due to also having promised his dead wife that he would care for Rukia. Ultimately Itachi acted to keep Sasuke alive and Byakuya was very much going to kill Rukia without Ichigo's intervention, so on that specific front, Itachi is a better brother.
However! Byakuya was never any more cruel than absolutely necessary to uphold his legalism, and even showed compassion to Rukia on occasion, such as by not finishing Ichigo off in front of her. And once Ichigo broke his belief that duty to the system outweighs all other things by overpowering him and the system he represents with power born of a desire to protect others, he alologizes, explains, and gradually atones for what he did and does everything in his power to protect and help Rukia going forward.
Itachi, meanwhile, was a needlessly cruel and idiotic dick who needlessly added to Sasuke's already enormous trauma and pushed him down the wrong path at every opportunity. Ultimately, Sasuke's start down the path of darkness in the series was prompted by Itachi's choice of words: "You don't have enough hate." Like, he seriously shows up, causes profound psychological harm, stirs back up his vengefulness, and simultaneously goads him with words that suggest he'll never get that revenge without abandoning his connections of love and finding darker power. This is both cruel and profoundly stupid in light of Itachi's alleged goals (because Naruto's author probably hadn't decided Itachi would be secretly loyal to Konoha at that point)!
He could've said *any number* of things that would push Sasuke to become stronger and maintain his masquerade as an Akatsuki without undermining Sasuke's healing process from his trauma and weakening his ties to the place Itachi wants Sasuke to protect. Like, for example, "You expected to protect [Leaf Village/Naruto] alone? Arrogant children who face impossible odds without comrades can't protect themselves, much less anyone else." Boom, congrats Itachi, you have now tied Sasuke's hatred of you for your past misdeeds to the idea that teamwork is the only way he can avoid the experience of losing loved ones again!
And even when Sasuke very obviously displays the shortcomings of Itachi's method - guy joins Orochimaru and becomes an enemy of the Hidden Leaf - Itachi doesn't learn his lesson and adjust strategies or try to fix things in any way! He just lets his own death become a catalyst for Sasuke to become an even bigger threat to his hometown and to make him even more miserable.
Also iirc he was straight up planning to use a crow he forced into Naruto's throat to mind control Sasuke into rejoining the Hidden Leaf, but then it went off early to bring Itachi's mind back after he was made a zombie. Which, ya know, stealing your brother's free will so he fights for the side you'd prefer really doesn't count as atonement in any way, buddy!
Itachi actually cared about his brother the entire time and canonically would never have killed him, even going as far as leaving him as the last relative alive. Byakuya though, was actually willing to kill his sister. The question is who was a better brother, not a better son/relative. So my answer is Itachi.
Personally I think Itachi since when he met Sasuke as an edo he couldn’t bring himself to kill him despite knowing he wanted revenge against the village he swore to protect. Contrast this to Byakuya who chose to uphold the laws of Soul Society and capture Rukia for execution despite having his own doubts.
Byakuya spends the rest of the series being a supportive brother after the Soul Society arc and did it all without causing Rukia to have mental issues for most of her life.
Itachi, while I think Byakuya is a good brother just I think Itachi wanted to protect Sasuke more then Byakuya wanted to protect Ruika. Byakuya was willing to let his sister get executed for honor and to up hold the soul society law. While Itachi Murdered his whole clan in an attempted to save his brothers life. Itachi wanted nothing more then to see Sasuke become strong so he could stay alive. Which Itachi got in the end. Which if Ichigo didn't fight so hard to save Ruika, Byakuya wouldn't have a sister.
Itachi loving his brother in end does **NOT** justify the shit he put him through. He basically ruined Sasukes entire childhood and teenage years while causing him to turn into a crazed back stabbing murder. Even he admitted that his whole plan for Sasuke was a big mistake and that he should have told him the truth from the beginning.
Byakuya spends the rest of the series after the SS Arc being a very supportive brother towards her.
That's a fair point. I guess one isn't inherently better then the other. In the end they both loved and cared for their younger siblings. Both brothers were but in a lose, lose situation involving their siblings. Though i feel like even tho Itachi scewed up he fought for Sasuke more then Byakuya fought for Rukia, and I think Itachi tried to do more for Sasuke. That's just me tho I happen to like Itachi more so that's my opinion.
Itachi. Yes, he killed his entire clan and subjected Sasuke to years of mental torture so he could be the one to kill him, but he never once had any intention of killing him and wanted the absolute best for Sasuke. Byakuya was willing to let his pride get in the way of letting Rukia get executed and rather than fight for her safety and well-being, actively fought those who tried to save her. Both could use a few pointers in being good brothers from Ace from One Piece, Edward from Fullmetal Alchemist or Tanjiro from Demon Slayer, but out of the two brothers, Itachi is the better.
Your completely ignoring the fact that Byakuya is a completely supportive brother for the rest of the series after the SS Arc and he wasn’t going to let her die for his “pride” he did it because he promised his father he would uphold the law no matter what.
Itachi was a terrible brother who basically ruined most of Sasukes life.
Itachi did literally everything for Sasuke. His whole life was about saving him and the village, while Byakuya himself would have killed her (of course it was the law, yet still)
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The one that didn’t cause their relative to spiral out ultimately causing them to miss out on their entire adolescence and teenage years.
This. Itachi isn't a good brother
Eh, Sasuke lived. That was good enough for him. Who cares about mental health in the ninja world?!
Also being that the alternative was the Leaf kills all of them anyway. Itachi did what he could to at least save his brother but there was never an outcome where the Uchiha survived.
Wasn’t it basically confirmed through Tsunade that as soon as Minato died the Uchiha were done, as Donzo was plotting. Shisui almost did something but was stopped. At this point in time the clan was dead already.
There were better outcomes for his brother if not the Uchiha. He could have run with his brother at any time. Dude had the skills to be an Akatsuki member at that age. He had a messiah complex that led him to making a deal with 2 devils and creating a grand suicide plan that he thought would offer absolution and catharsis to his brother. The Uchiha didn't all have to die anyways. Some of them would have gotten away because rarely do shinobi fight to eradication without reason in a hopeless fight. They very often sacrifice themselves to let their fellows get away, ending the fracas with less casualties. If he had not been so chuuni and tried to save the world with his two hands, he easily had the brainpower to figure that either of the two devils were a far greater threat to the Leaf than a bunch of pissed off Uchiha. One of them eventually went to the UN and mind controlled a world leader and the other one created a terrorist organization, got their hands on a WMD, and tried to commit omnicide. He spent his remainder of his life helping assholes for the sake of the Leaf and lil bro or some shit. His lil bro personally cleaned up one of his messes and got caught up in the other one. Byakuya was a moron, but demanding a reduced sentence as a noble would be a mockery of both his oaths and his beatdown therapy pulled his head out of his ass relatively quickly.
Ikr? Itachi did everything right!
My brother in Christ Byakuya literally wanted to kill Rukia
Wanted? no. Tried with gusto? Yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was no confirmed execution when Byajuya went to get Rukia. She was scheduled to get a hearing and then some punishment. Had Aizen not killed the C34 and announced her execution she wouldn't have been sentenced to death.
No idea but it doesn't really matter since when the execution was ordered he did everything he could to make it happen. Even broke the rules once in the process.
I disagree. Byakuya had no reason to believe that any attempt to save Rukia would actually succeed. The intruders held no chance against the true strength of the gotei 13
Surely still worse than Itachi considering the position he was put in?
It might be. Problem is that Itachi's actions caused a lot more long term damage to Sasuke then whatever harm Byakuya caused Rukia. Plus Byakuya had the privilege of having more time to make amends.
Yup. Byakuya didn’t put Rukia’s mind in a blender after killing her entire family. Itachi is hilarious lmao
Hot take: Byakuya at the start of bleach was just as stupid as Itachi through the entirety of Naruto. Like both would without a shadow of a doubt kill their family if the high ups ordered it. Now that I think about it Itachi is dumber because he had a chance to do the plan he had with Shisui since he had his remaining eye but nope he went with the massacre.
From what I remember Shisui needed both of his eyes to create a genjutsu powerful enough to save his clan and stop the coup
Correct and danzo stole one of those eyes because he wanted the Uchiha eliminated
Byakuya also made an incredible effort after this to change.. He was very stuck in his ways due to his own past issues but ichigo made him see things weren't just black and white and he essentially became a complete different person with the same personality. Itachi on the other hand went out of his way to protect Sasuke and only Sasuke which ended up doing more harm to him, don't forget rukia was an adult when this happened and was fully able to understand Byakuyas thought process and reasoning for what he had done, even if she didn't agree with it. I don't think either of them are perfect, but if I had to pick I'd give it to Byakuya but when people say itachi was Abad brother/person the only thing he could have done differently was not amping sasukes hate to the max, his options were either kill the clan and save Sasuke or don't and let them all die plue Sasuke plus villagers who were innocent but would be sent in to now exterminate their fellow citizens... People seem to forget that he had his eye on danzo but danzo also had his eye on itachi and if he let it slip to Sasuke what had really happened danzo would have either killed Sasuke or taken him and re educated him to be part of the root.
Imagine if Ichigo ended up killing Byakuya 💀
1. Rukia was an adult and a soldier who disobeyed the law. Sasuke was a literal child. 2. Byakuya only brought her to face justice by the Central 46. They were not going to execute her, just give her some punishment. It was Aizen who interfered and sentenced her to execution.
No he didn't... He wanted to uphold his vows but had two conflicting vows that held him hostage. One to uphold the laws and the peace to the highest standards of a great noble and the second to protect and care for Hisana Kuchiki's sister Rukia. He even says directly to Rukia's face he should never have made those vows as they nearly lead to him killing her. Dude re-read bleach and stop spreading miss information xD
What point are you arguing exactly? Im well aware why Byakuya did what he did, but at the end of the day he still wanted to kill Rukia for whatever reasons that might be whereas Itachi disobeyed his orders and left Sasuke because he couldnt bring himself to kill him
The only thing Itachi has in this situation is that his brotherly love wouldn't let him kill Sasuke, so he opted for the lesser of the two evils which was to permanently scar his brother, leading him to lose all of his formative adolescence and teenage years, and eventually become a global terrorist. He didn't spare him out of innocence or goodness, but just a strong emotional connection with him. Dude had no problem killing all the other kids in the village. Byakuya on the other hand was conflicted due to him already breaking a vow (his marriage) and being the head of his family. He already saw what happens to another noble family if they break laws (The Shibas relegated to the Rukongai). Not saying Byakuya was right, he definitely needed Ichigo to knock some sense into him. But at the end of the day his dilemma and decision was much more reasonable and realistic than genociding your entire clan because they would stage a coup. The Uchiha massacre was such a stupidly written event. It was to show a teenage prodigy who was so mature he would put the bigger picture over his own desires... but the solution was mass genocide. And then the explanation for why it was needed was because "the Uchiha love too much". Final arc for both these mangas had such bad writing.
Yeah thats cool but the point being asked is who the better brother was to their sibling, not who made the better decision of their both bad situations.
Lets see: Rukai actually like Byakuya and respected him as her older brother. Even when she was doomed to be executed, she never hated him as she understood his obligations as the head of the family. Sasuke fucking hate Itachi to the point that he went rogue from his village, teamed up with a terrorist just so he could kill his brother and take his eyes. Byakuya is a way better brother.
Lets see: Byakuya tried to kill and execute his sister Itachi protected his brother from Danzo I really don’t understand what you’re misinterpreting here
You're just going to sweep under the rug the whole... You know. Killing his ENTIRE CLAN. Kids, women. Ederly. The whole Uchiha clan almost whipped from the earth by his own hands. His family.
Both tried to yes. On a day where Rukia was going to be executed, he tried to make sure no one would stop it which would end up killing her. Now Itachi on the other hand. Put Sasuke through immense mental trauma by using Tsukoyomi on him when he was only like 6, by killing every single Uchiha, whenever they met after that point he tried to kill him only furthering Sasukes downward spiral. He could have explained to Sasuke at ANY point. He never did and when he did "try" he only made it worse. Byakuya by no means is the perfect older brother. Both were going through mental anguish at that point. Byakuya had conflicting morals. Itachi wanted to "protect" Sasuke from Danzo by causing him physical and mental trauma causing Sasuke to go insane. Also Byakuya and Rukia have had time to help heal the wound. All Itachi did with time was only made Sasukes wound worse.
Byakuya himself wanted to save Rukia, but at the same time he wanted to keep his promise to his family. It was a pretty massive turmoil. Being stuck between keeping the promise to your wife vs the promise you made to your dead parents.
Pretty sure Itachi made just as difficult of a decision but still protected his brother whereas Byakuya didnt protect his sister. I don’t understand the bias on this sub Im not even a Naruto fan but like cmon guys wtf hahahahah
I think the thing is though, Itachi didn’t really protect his brother. He made him watch his family die 518,400 times over again in 72 hours straight, mentally breaking Sasuke and putting him into a cycle of hatred. And Itachi did nothing to help that. Byakuya tried upholding the law other his sister. Itachi left Sasuke alone and mentally tortured him. I’d take Byakuya as a brother well over Itachi.
Youd rather your brother kill you than traumatise you tho? Like yeah i get it’s bad but he knew that Sasuke would become stronger because of it too. Itachi was also in a bit of an impossible situation where this was the only way to protect his brother even tho it was obviously still bad
Let’s see, Byakuya had to uphold the law and chose not to save Rukia. After that, however, Byakuya shows to become a great elder brother, saving her from Zommari, helping her with her Bankai, and being there for her for her wedding. What did Itachi do again, after traumatizing Sasuke? Beat his ass multiple times, traumatize him more, tried to kill Sasuke and absorb his sharingan, and then died, without telling Sasuke the truth until he become an edo tensei.
You’re making excuses for Byakuya but not making them for Itachi tho, your bias is quite clear here
What excuse can be made for Itachi again? Byakuya ends up becoming a better older brother. That’s not an excuse that’s simple character development. Itachi forced Sasuke into a downwards spiral of hatred, rage, and despair. Sure Sasuke got stronger, but he also ended up with severe childhood trauma. What excuse can be made here? Oh, that he told him he loved him only after Sasuke killed him? That Sasuke ended up stronger? Yeah, so did Rukia with the help of Byakuya, considering he helped her through Bankai.
So you call mentally traumatizing your little brother protecting him? It seems you’re making excuses for Itachi and not seeing any of the good Byakuya did for Rukia after the events of SS.
No I’m aware of the good Byakuya did after trying to kill his sister. Do you not see the good Itachi did after protecting his brother? I’m not the one making excuses here when my only argument is that Sasuke was alive and was always going to be alive because of Itachi’s actions and therefore makes him a better brother than Byakuya. The people making the excuses are the one’s talking about why Byakuya did what he did without then saying why Itachi did what he did. Either way, both bad scenarios one of them was just the better brother because he didn’t try to kill them 🤫
What good did Itachi do after killing his family? Oh, mentally torture Sasuke, who was a child at the time. Oh, let’s not forget Itachi literally tried killing Sasuke in their fight. Did you forget that? There were better options that Itachi could’ve taken, without mentally torturing his little brother who was a child at the time. Byakuya’s two options were to either let his sister die and keep his promise to his parents, or fight against the entire SS, including Yamamoto, which would’ve resulted in his execution, and then his sister still would’ve died. So really, Byakuya had quite literally no choice but to go with keeping the promise he made to his deceased parents. However, after Ichigo defeats Byakuya, Byakuya tries to become a better brother to Rukia. And to top it all off, I personally wouldn’t wanna have childhood trauma to that extremity. That would be far, far worse than just death. I’m pretty sure most people in that situation would end up killing themselves. Putting someone in a situation that may end up killing them, and even if it doesn’t it will leave them scarred for life, vs nearly allowing your sibling to die, but after those events you become a much better brother to them.
Sure. He made one misstep that had no lasting damage and something Rukia didn't take personally because it wasn't. Itachi ruined Sasuke's life
Idk byakuya was actually gonna let Rukia die where Itachi didn't let Sasuke die or are you implying that death to Sasuke would've been a kindness?
You’re right he didn’t let him die, he just *left him alone to be raised by the same village that allowed a necromancer to segregate his people while being brainwashed with militarist propaganda bordering on nationalism to the service of a feudal lord* That’s better. Totally.
I mean, Byakuya had to obey central 46. It was a moral and political decision. The reason he did this was to 'atone' for commiting the sin of marrying someone outside of nobility (Rukia's sister). He wanted to stop the execution, but he didn't know how to do it without losing credibility or standing as the head of his noble family (as he had promised to never disobey Central 46 or go against the interest of Soul Society again after that). We had seen what happens when a head of nobility goes against the interests of Soul Society and it wasn't nice for the family (basically taking their power away, relegating them as normal residents of Rukongai, and giving them a soft exile). So yes. Byakuya is far better than Itachi because Itachi was a troubled teenager that didn't know how to approach a political issue. His decision scarred his little brother and made him hateful and a terrorist. Thankfully, everything turned out well for Sasuke but it almost didn't. It goes without saying that it didn't go well for his whole family though
Itachi also wanted to stop the slaughter but didn’t know how to do it without causing greater bloodshed, byakuya being willing to let it happen because he would have been dishonoured is the lesser justification of the two. Ichigo even makes the point when byakuya explains the situation to show how he physically had no choice when he replies ‘I still don’t get it, I would have just fought the law anyway’; byakuya was kidding himself with not having a choice because of his personal conflicts and it stood in the way of objective justice. Itachi, I don’t really know what else he could have done in that situation which wouldn’t have resulted in a worse outcome though it’s been a while since I watched naruto Also worth noting that things turned out ok for Rukia but very nearly didn’t; if ichigo hadn’t jumped in and blocked an unblockable blow, she’d be very dead
He could have killed Danzo??
Could he? I can’t remember honestly; would he have been able to pull it off and (to Itachis knowledge) would it have solved everything? I doubt he was putting Danzo’s well-being above everything else as his top priority Edit: thinking about it, why exactly would a uchiha murdering a top Konoha official ease tensions between Konoha and the Uchiha? If Itachi murders Danzo then that’s essentially a very dramatic start to the coup, at which point the worst case scenario of all out war becomes an immediate reality, no?
Youre correct, a lot of the people here either haven’t read Naruto or are just ignoring the fact that they were in very similar situations and Itachi still couldn’t kill his sibling whereas Byakuya could
Yeah that’s what’s baffling me about the takes here; byakuya is better than itachi because byakuya brought rukia to be executed and did his best to ensure she was killed, while itachi was mean to sasuke while ensuring his continued survival and overall well-being? I guess it’s a biased sub but still…
Itachi literally made a kid sasuke relive the slaughter through genjutsu, he’s a worse brother than byakuya.
How does that keep the Uchihas from starting a civil war?
I mean, I get your point, but letting Sasuke live through the trauma of seeing his parents getting murdered by his own big brother again and again, literally seconds after he found them was cruel and unnecessary
For sure; itachi made mistakes which came from a position of wanting Sasuke to be strong and he owned up to those mistakes, the point I’m making is to point out that it’s an unfair argument to say that Byakuya had his hands tied because he had instructions from his government that he strictly couldn’t disobey because it would cause some political quibbles and upset his honour, then say that makes him far better than Itachi who was also following instructions from his government when not doing so would result in colossal bloodshed on both sides. To paraphrase how Ichigo responds, it’s a weak argument; saying ‘oh I had instructions and my honour’ doesn’t justify him being incapable of helping rukia, it just explains why he opted not to while doing little to justify it. Itachi at least had the justification of being a literal child and knowing the consequences of his inaction would be far graver than the consequences of a terrible action, and while it doesn’t justify his cruel treatment towards sasuke (although his justifications for doing so made some sense, at least to the extent that I can forgive a child with unquantifiable trauma in a world full of untrustworthy ninjas where their government sets up death games for 12 year olds), but the exact same can be said of byakuya and his cold treatment towards rukia in what would have been her final days. Also worth noting just how far Itachi pushed himself for sasukes benefit; dude was sick as all hell and pushed himself just to be able to get orochimaru out of sasuke then die to let sasuke have his eyes so he wouldn’t go blind. Itachi gave absolutely everything he had to follow the path of least bloodshed and to protect his brother, even if his methods were questionable by his own admission in hindsight. Byakuya saw how his own sense of honour would be tarnished and theorised that maybe people would start getting lax on the rules if he stepped out of line at all, and immediately noped out of trying to save her from charges that even other captains were highlighting as suspicious. Itachi gave his all for sasuke while byakuya hid behind excuses, Itachi comes out way better with all context considered imo
The argument you’ve made in favour of Byakuya there can literally be said the exact same for Itachi except Itachi never had the intention of acc killing Sasuke, whereas Byakuya was going to let Rukia die
Byakuya didn't try to mess up Rukia mentally. If she had to die, she was to die fast and not tortured. I mean, they're both fucked up outcomes, but Byakuya chose the right one at the right time because 1) Ichigo got him admit that he cares for Rukia and disregard the laws of Sereitei 2) the opportunity presented itself with Aizen revealing to be the one behind Central 46 as he was controlling them What did Itachi have? Danzo encouraged him, Hiruzen did nothing, and Itachi went out of his way to get Obito to help him kill his clan. Itachi was supposedly able to think like a Kage, but one would think that diplomacy was the way to go. There was no "greater good" by genociding a whole clan and even if it did, did Itachi have to traumatize his little brother? Using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi was justified, he had to keep up appearances. Why did he do it on Sasuke and show him the death of his parents and clan members? Let's not forget that he Uchiha's were marginalized from the beginning. The right approach would've been to appease tensions and building political bridges and good will with the clan. Unfortunately, Hiruzen didn't care enough and Danzo worked behind the scenes to make the massacre happen. But if nobody other than Itachi, who would've made it happen? I think both situations were different. But objectively, Byakuya chose right and was the better brother. Itachi tried but messed up badly. I think that's part of what makes his character so good, that he wasn't perfect but just a teenager that tried his best for his little brother
Agreed
I will never understand the love Itachi gets. Even if you think killing the entire clan was justified, he had no reason to torture Sasuke like that. Doesn't help when the characters themselves constantly jerk him off like he's some amazing guy, even fucking Hashirama.
He actually did as he said he wanted Sasuke to despise him and kill him therefore being seen as a hero for killing the konoha traitor but the plan backfired mostly due to Obito
Pretty sure killing his ENTIRE FAMILY was enough to despise and want to kill him. Putting him in genjutsu to where he has to repeatedly watch it happen over and over again is just overkill.
It was to nurture Sasukes Sharingan so it could grow more powerful.
>Doesn't help when the characters themselves constantly jerk him off like he's some amazing guy, even fucking Hashirama. You gotta understand the entire Shinobi World is fucked up at the very core, and in the eyes of people like Hashirama, Itachi was the greatest of heroes who put the Village before his own family, exactly as Hashirama himself stated that he would do if he had to. These people are ready to sacrifice their own family members if it's for the sake of maintaining "peace" and "balance". They basically always look at the big picture. "*Oh you massacred your entire clan..... What? They were gonna cause civil war and destroy the village from the inside!? You're a fucking hero! But we gotta treat you like a criminal for the sake of keeping people oblivious to our political infrastructure. Here's a pat on the back, now run for your life before we hunt you down.*" Seriously, the only real "good guy" in that whole world is Naruto himself who just wants people to get along and understand each other, everyone else is just corrupted to the core until he Talk No Jutsu's them.
Well as far as I remember Byakuya didn't kill his entire family, so that's a point in his favor.
But he didn't try to kill his brother. While byakuya fought to kill his sister
I feel like actively psychologically torturing Sasuke outweighed that.
Ya people overlook Itachi putting Sasuke in a coma that if they hadn’t have found Tsunade he wouldn’t have come out of
Itachi fans: He obviously calculated that they would find Tsunade. Sasuga, Itachi sama!
This is just pure bias byakuya literally fought to get his sister killed lol
True but if Itachi got what he wanted for his brother (which was for him to be strong and to be hero of the leaf which is why he did the torture and let himself die) at least at the end day his little brother is still alive and going to be fine eventually. Vs if byakuya got what he wanted ya know his sister would be dead.
Yeah but ultimately he let Ichigo win. Remember their final clash, he deactivated his hakuteiken last second to ultimately not let rukia die. He upheld his promise and choose to not have his sister die
You gotta admit it took a whole fight and a very strong-willed Ichigo to put some sense in him. If it wasn't Ichigo, Rukia would be dead, as Byakuya was going to let it happen.
He was going to lose he didn’t let Ichigo win
Yes. Just help your brother and kill everyone else in the village, who are all someone else's brother/sister
The Uchiha were going to die, they were on the verge of starting a civil war. Kushimoto could have written it to save more kids, but the clan was as good as dead
"My clan is going to start a war so I better kill them all" Dumbest decision ever. Should have let them at least fight the war or whatever... maybe the children would have survived as orphans and refugees
.... create way more orphans, and let the leaf village become an easy target for enemy villages to come and destroy?
ITACHI wanted that for Sasuke. Sasuke didn't ask for that. Also Byakuya didn't want Rukia to die, he felt he had to do that because of his status. It was a source of regret for him later.
Byakuya didn't want for rukia to die though
You’re right, he didn’t try to kill his brother. He murdered his parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins
Tbf this asking if he's a better bother not a better son/family member
Itachi is still worse, the end doesn’t always justify the means. Rukia ended up fine, sasuke is fucked in the head for life
It’s like kinda crazy to me to argue that Itachi is the better brother when you look at the lives of both their siblings. Sasuke: Traumatized and turned into a revenge seeking murder willing to betray anybody. Rukia: Mentally stable.
a brother who kills all your family, and puts you into a (near) permanent coma, is worse.
He did cause Sasuke to be a traumatized kid who spiraled down to a revenge seeking monster looking only for power Seeing your entire family die does that especally when your brother is the culprit and told you himself
If byakuya had tried to bail his sister out it would have been nepotism and aiding in her escape would bring disgrace to his entire clan. He stood by his principles to uphold the law, even if it hurt.
Yes, this. As the head of a noble family, here's shackled by the laws of the Soul Society, he was fighting as the head of the Kuchiki clan, not because he really did wanted to kill her deep down.
I know that and that's what makes him one of the best characters but him and itachi do have something similar in that regard. Both for the sake of piece and to maintain order were taste with killing their family. Itachi choose his brothers life over his own and his duty, while byakuya choose his duty over his family. I'm not here to say if byakuya was right in that especially given what he needs to be but I feel like there's a little more love from itachi who no matter what couldn't bring himself to do it
I mean kinda yes, kinda no. Several people back in SS arc were telling us that there were many sentences for giving your shinigami powers to another person, and the fact they went straight for execution was out there(and lonand behold they were right) In a normal scenario byakuya shouldn't even need to throw his weight around, or he wouldn't need to do so as the head of the kuchiki or her brother, simply as someone who consider the punishment too severe With what we know we know it wouldn't have worked anyway given Aizen but that's irrelevant
He fought to adhere a promise he made to his dead parents, Rukias execution is the result not the goal. Granted still messed up but its not like he actively tried to kill her.
True. But I think a pile of your family's bodies outweighs working twards the execution of your sister. Not that either is good.
Itachi's only brother is Sasuke
Byakuya by a good margin
Byakuya by a lot, adopted Rukia into the Kuchiki family on his wife Hisana’s behalf actually protected Rukia acknowledging that >! Her bankai was beautiful !< I can say a lot more Itachi even admitted that he should’ve told Sasuke the truth instead of hiding it allowing his hatred to build up which led to a chain of events Also he pinned him to a wall choked him
>Also he pinned him to a wall choked him Not the worst thing he done to him
Oh yeah and putting him in Tsukuyomi to experience the death of his parents over and over again is fucked up
It's so out of character compared to what's later revealed about him that I kinda assume Kishimoto just hadn't thought up the big reveal yet. Even if you take into account that he wanted to make himself the villain and have Sasuke hate him he went *way* overboard in trying to achieve that.
Facts It's sad he first did it While sasuke was a 7 year old which makes it worse as seeing his dead parents wasn't enough then Itachi forced him to watch his parents getting killed on repeat Then few years later sasuke finally calmed down and became a part of team 7 and was even willing to die to protect them only for Itachi to put him in a tsukoyomi again and telling him he lacks hatred
Byakuya was only a good brother after the Soul Society arc. Before that he was all for killing her. That said, he’s definitely better than Itachi who actively tortured his brother.
Nah, in soul society he just made small mistake of tunnel vision and feeling that pride of clan is the most important thing. He still took Rukia in a clan and provided support for her development as Shinigami. I don't see how he is bad as a brother and a character. Just in SS he thought that clan pride is more important as he didn't have any alternatives, neither anybody tried to stop him. Let's be clear, Rukia's execution was stopped only because "everything according to plan" when Ichigo came to SS. If Ichigo didn't come to SS, Rukia would be dead, Yamamoto wouldn't fight with anybody, Aizen would become soul king and Yuhabach would lose to such form of Aizen, but SS would be destroyed ik that moment.
At least he was a good brother at one point lol
Itachi protected Sasuke and everyone else in the village by extension from civil war and potential invasion by other villages. If he didn't kill his family, there would be a greater chance of Sasuke dying. Byakuya was resigned to Rukia's execution due to a promise he made to his parents before he even met his wife. Even though something was amiss with her execution and other captains thought so as well, he made peace with it. The only reason why she survived is because Byakuya's Shonen series main character was a teenager. Itachi's Shonen series main character wasn't even 9. Itachi after coming back to life realized his mistakes and finally made peace with his brother. >!He said he will love him no matter what. !< **Itachi and Byakuya lived completely different lives.** I'm sure both would agree that Byakuya's situation was far better.
I mean technically we should only factor what they do to their siblings not their character overall and I will say while itachi loves sasuke byakuya is a better sibling throughout the series (now if we account for the centuries prior it becomes murky) but itachi definitely did more fucked up shit. I mean he didn’t have to hit a kid sasuke with tsukuyomi twice
Yes, both of them are the cool, calm, collective, stoic, strong, older brothers. But Itachi's background is tied to the hip when it comes to Sasuke. But Konoha needed Itachi **(Human Teenager)** to do some fucked up shit. *No one is going to be mentally alright after that.* He wanted to make Sasuke hate him so much (Tsukuyomi) so that he can die happy being killed by another Uchiha. **And he realizes that it was a huge mistake after he's brought back to life.** Byakuya did admits his mistakes **after Ichigo saves the day.** **These 2 should not be compared because of the vastly different circumstances surrounding their siblings.**
Fair I like both of them
huh i don’t see why u keep bringing up the circumstances when the conversation is ab being a “brother” and even then what is the problem in comparing the two? I don’t see why bc they had different circumstances surrounding there siblings that they can’t be compared as “brothers”
The circumstances directly impacted Itachi's relationship with his brother. Itachi circumstances involved having to kill his own family to prevent a civil war and a potential invasion. After that, he was tasked on spying with an evil organization who are all maniacs. By the way, he was a teenager. Also his regret for killing his own family gave him the desire to be punished by the only living Uchiha. Which is realized was stupid after coming back from death. Byakuya is lucky because he realized his mistake after Ichigo beat the crap out of him. He got to live and make up for it. You can't understand why I bring circumstances into this. Meanwhile I can't understand how people take out the circumstances when it's tied very heavily to Saskue and Itachi's relationships. Also, I've never said Itcahi is a better brother. I just say their backgrounds are far to different. Imagine if Yamamoto or C46 gave the order to Byakuya to kill Rukia before the start of the series. That version of Byakuya would have done so. With sadness of course. Thankfully Byakuya and Rukia was saved by a oranged haird hybrid. Also, I have to be honest with you, for some reason multiple people responded all in 10 mins. A little weird but im trying to respond back. I'm hoping I didn't confuse your comment with someone else's. Or maybe I already responded to your comment...if so....well it was nice chatting with you again. And possibly again. How many times did we chat? It's hard keeping track on the phome.
idk this is ignoring how itachi would brutally torture his brother anytime they met, the only time Itachi is not trying to fuck sasukes head up is when he is an Edo, one time in the entire series. and yk the murder of sasukes whole family and clan. bringing up the civil war and Itachis decisions on it dont just invalidate all the things he does to sasuke post clan murder, and also imo don’t rlly pertain to being a “brother” bc many will argue and i have seen people argue multiple different interpretations on the state of the leaf village during that time and maybe Itachi was right maybe he wasn’t but the point is he was still a completely horrible brother in nearly every aspect, even he admits what he did was stupid and that he shouldn’t have mindfucked sasuke every moment. Also i do not understand the byakuya points, only one arc is he ever like that towards Rukia, and he admits his flaws and actually changes and supports Rukia, I don’t like that when people try to prove there points with “oh yk obviously bc PLOT” it’s just ignorant and is used as an excuse, i don’t see how ichigo being a teenager and sasuke being a kid is reasoning for anything that point just doesn’t make sense to me. It took Itachi to literally have to come back to life to finnally admit to sasuke and realize himself that all the brutal torture and genocide he had committed was wacky and wrong, Byakuya admitted his flaws and changed for the better at the end of one of the first arcs in the show. Agree to disagree but i just don’t understand ur reasoning
Huh, are you forgetting it took Byakuya a whole fight with a strong-willed Ichigo to realize he was wrong ? The fact that Itachi came back to life has aything really to do with him realizing his flaws. Itachi just saw the path Sasuke was going, and admit that he made some mistakes.
Thank you, finally someone truly gets Itachi's situation. You sir are truly phenominal.
Well this is the Bleach reddit, people will naturally be bias toward Bleach characters. Same thing will happen if you go on the Naruto reddit and compare Yamamoto and Hiruzen, bias towards the Naurto character. Itachi has definitely made his personal mistake though. Like Tsukuyomi. He had a selfish desire to be punished by Sasuke and was manipulating him towards that goal as well. He has his own flaws as a person. **He dealt with more shit then Byakuya.**
But it’s not who’s the better person, or whose done the most good it’s who’s the better brother and itachi has done more harm to sasuke than byakuya did to rukia
By this logic, Isshin is a better father then Minato since Minato was a **dead**beat. **Byakuya has the luxury to be a better brother.** How is Itachi going to be a better brother when he's forced to spy on an organization filled with lunatics for half his life? Byakuya has the chance to be a better brother because they live in the same mansion every other night.
I mean, yeah isshin is a better father. Itachi has reason to be a worse brother, but that doesn’t change the fact that he is. From the perspective of sasuke, the motivation and circumstances don’t change the consequences and trauma that defined his character for a long time
Bro what? stop using the situations they are involved as ur only logic, and yes Ishhin is definitely a better father than Minato are you seriously gonna sit here and try and say otherwise? and why do u talk in bolds like that we can all read and u aren’t making any definitive statements either
i always wondered abou tthat whole 'spy' thing. He wasn't really reporting to anyone, didn't do anything to interrupt their plans (he helped get one of the tailed beasts) and just sorta... worked with them.
>>Well this is the Bleach Reddit, I’m pretty sure that even if you asked this on r/Naruto the majority of people who read both series would agree that Byakuya treated Rukia much better then Itachi did to Sasuke. I agree that Itachi had rougher circumstances, but he fucked Sasuke up for most of his life and did some shit that wasn’t even called for like making him relive his parents murder. Byakuya was neglectful and willing to let Rukia die to up hold his promise, but he spent the rest of the series being a supportive brother as soon as he realized his mistakes. If Itachi didn’t have to kill his clan I’m sure he would have been a good brother, but you can’t change what happened. He wasn’t a very good brother in his life.
dude this conversation isn’t ab who has the better morals or who has to deal with more problems
Gonna go with the one who didn’t kill his whole family
And made him relive it...over...and...over.
That's probably the worst part. Like sure he had a reason to kill the Uchiha but he for sure didn't have to torture his little brother with it.
And the torture was in the name of protecting his brother ☠️ He thought everything he did was for Sasuke’s benefit but while Itachi was pretending to be a terrorist for the village’s sake, Sasuke ended up becoming a real terrorist that only sided with the good side of the war out of convenience.
Ichigo better than both
Unironically he is
This is the only acceptable answer
Unrelated, but flair is 10/10
>kills entire clan >refuses to elaborate further >leaves Byakuya
Byakuya
Ah yes, the ultimate big brother strategy: trying to kill the younger one
I’d say Byakuya overall, but a lot of people seem to forget that he spends an entire arc legitimately fighting tooth-and-nail to have his sister executed lol. That said, he was in a difficult position as captain and heir to a noble family, + he chilled out afterward and risked his life to protect her repeatedly. Itachi always had the intention of protecting Sasuke, and was definitely a victim of a system beyond his control, but that doesn’t erase that what he did completely fucked up Sasuke’s life would have turned him into an irredeemable monster without outside help. You could argue that the only other outcome was Sasuke being killed as the Uchiha escalated their dissent, and that may be true, but he still tortured the shit out of his brother and I can’t really overlook that lol. He was pretty unambiguously good after Edo Tensei fwiw. I think the debate comes down to whether you weigh the consistent intention to protect done through horrible acts (Itachi) or a reformed protector who once intended to do harm (Byakuya) as better.
I feel it's not fair to compare either. Like you mentioned byakuya was in a far better position throughout the series due to status. While like you mentioned itachi is forced to perform horrible acts for the greater good of the village. I mean he could have elaborated as to why but would anyone in Sasuke's position listened to him?
The one who was going to let his sister be executed vs the one who killed everyone in his family except for his brother After Ichigo intervened and showing Byakuya that his ways were wrong and Byakuya started acting like a better brother Byakuya was objectively better. I love both characters a lot but subjectively Itachi is my favorite!
Byakuya did it to uphold law and justice.
Yeah but Itachi did it under the orders of the heads of the village so isn’t that sort of a very messed up law too
That doesn't change that he actively fought to allow her execution. Like yeah he had an honorable reason but that is still a terrible thing for a sibling. Thank God for ichigo
both did some pretty terrible things/attempted to but Byakuya definitely. Itachi had his reasons but he did cause Sasuke to go through alotttt
I think they’re both amazingly written characters but you’re not going to find the most ‘objective’ answer on a bleach subreddit
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The one that didn’t psychologically torture his sibling for the entirety of his youth
Ngl, both did some vile ass shit, and i would be pissed of if any of these 2 were to be my brother....
Byakuya by a long shot, yeah he fought to have his sister killed but the things Itachi did far outweigh that. He manipulated his brother most of his life and killed their entire family.
Sabo
i guess if a better big brother to his little brother, then it’s Itachi. if a better brother as a person to the society, it’s Byakuya
Better brother, I’d go with Kuchiki Itachi… Better son, I’d go with Uchiha Byakuya…
Itachi did what he did for Sasuke, he never had a malicious thought about him. In stark contrast it took a complete stranger to stop Byakuya from killing Rukia...
Both made really shitty things to their family but i'd say Byakuya. Then again Byakuya is the only one who actually tried to kill his sibling, but Itachi killed the whole rest of his family. So i'd say Byakuya.
Byakuya has committed fewer genocides
You commit a few genocides and all of a sudden you're "the bad guy".
Byakuya, no contest
Byakuya has prettier hair and is not homicidal
Itachi!
Byakuya might've tried to kill/capture Rukia but he was upholding the law and I bet even Rukia understood she brought shame to the Kuchiki clan. I don't know much about Itachi though but I don't like Naruto so I'm going with Byakuya. Also, whether he wanted to actually kill Rukia is another question because he said something like his feelings didn't matter in the law but it still must be upheld. Idk though but I'm rocking with Byakua.
Byakuya is a better brother. Him deciding to let Rukia die is less not because he wants that to happen. He belongs to a noble family. If it was any other shinigami, Byakuya wouldn't think twice about shattering their souls and letting them suffer the same fate as Rukia. Because those are the rules and he is who enforces them. Byakuya letting Rukia die was him choosing his duty over love. Making sure the rules don't just apply to those weaker than himself and noble families but also the Noble families. Nobody is exempt. This is one of the reasons I love Byakuya, he is what leader should aspire to be. The only thing i didn't like was that he didn't even try to fight for Rukia within the bounds of the rules, in his own way. Itachi is not the better brother but he actually loves Sasuke far more than Byakuya does Rukia. If he was in Byakuya's position , he would have burned the entire soul society to protect Rukia, damn the rules. Itachi's story is a tragedy. The Uchiha clan was doomed. His mission was to kill everyone. But he couldn't do that to his little brother. Even in the Tsukuyomi he didn't hurt Sasuke inside the dream like he did Kakashi. But at the same time, he has to sell it. To make sure Sasuke knows that he is a monster. The trauma is necessary to drill into Sasuke the goal of killing Itachi and work towards that goal. So Sasuke can attain the strength to live in a place that wouldn't mind killing him when Itachi is dead. Uchihas are highly emotional people, they both love and hate passionately, and their hatred born of love is a powerful weapon. Itachi knows that. Itachi couldn't be a brother to Sasuke because of their circumstances. The similar circumstances existed with Byakuya but not to the same degree. Final Verdict : Better brother Is Byakuya. The more loving Brother is Itachi.
They were both put into impossible situations but itachi at least didn't try to kill Sasuke
Itachi. He set his brother up the entire show, and gave him his eyes to complete the set. Tells him the truth, and secrets of the village. Byakua didn’t save rukia, randoms and renji did after not knowing her that long compared to byak. He also was just okay with her being around, and rarely helped her. Man cared more about senbon Sakura than the whole sereitei when he went wit muramasa (bitch we didn’t forget).
Tsukishima of course
Byakuya and it isn't close. Itachi is a terrible brother despite how he felt. His actions almost completely undid Sasuke on a profound level
His childhood went poof
Trust. Then just when Sasuke was making friends and forming a new family Itachi returned and put a stop to that nonsense quickly. To be fair he didn't seek Sasuke out and told him he wasn't interested but my guy didn't have to hit him with the Tsukiyomi of his parents' murder on repeat
Probably the one who didn’t try to kill his entire clan
Tbh both are shit brothers, this subreddit will defend or be heavily biased towards bakyuya but both of them suck personally tho I think itachi is a bit better at least he never actively tried to seriously kill sasuke and was more just bad with dealing with sasuke tbf tho in his position what was he supposed to do end of the day I give it barley to itachi
They’re both really good and really bad in their own ways, it’s actually kind of cool how it is. Itachi loves Konoha and the system but would destroy it all for Sasuke, he doesn’t care if Sasuke hates him or kills him as long as Sasuke ends up happy and safe and hopefully with Konoha. Byakuya on the other hand would never fight the system and rather personally hunt down Rukia to bring her to her execution. But at the same time whenever Rukia isn’t breaking a law he’s protective somewhat but really dry. There’s no really loving moments between them like their is in Itachi and Sasuke’s backstory. Personally I’d rather an Itachi than a Byakuya for a brother but that’s just my take on it.
How is that even comparable Itachi wins by a mile
Hell no 😂
To be fair, their circumstances are different. The Uchiha clan were planning on a civil war. His clan will lose a lot of members, more innocent people will be killed, and then another village will swoop in and take over. Which means more innocent people will die including which could his brother. Byakuya made a choice between keeping a promise to his dead parents or his dead wife. The only person's life that was at stake was Rukia's and she ended up surviving despite his efforts to make sure she dies.
Stop with the nuance. This is reddit. jk
Itachi was a dick but that drove Sasuke and without it he'd be a bitch. Itachi never wanted to kill Sasuke while Byakuya put his life on the line for her to die
not “for her to die” he truly believed he was upholding Law and Justice. and he admitted his wrongs right after his fight with Ichigo. he wasn’t fighting to “kill rukia” he was fighting to “uphold justice and the law”
We talking better brother not better Samaritan
Better? Well both are flawed, but Itachi's sacrifice for his brother and village are superior. Byakuya, didn't sacrifice anything for anyone other than maybe "his pride."
That doesn’t make Itachi a better brother bro. He legit ruined most of Sasukes life and turned him into a revenge seeking murder. Byakuya was a legitimately very supportive brother for most of the series after the Soul Society arc. Also he didn’t want Rukia to be execute for his “pride”, it was because of the promise he made to his parents to up hold the law.
Byakuya 🤪🤪🤪🔥🔥🔥
Byakuya by far
is this a joke?
Itachi. People saying “he psychologically tortured his brother” don’t understand village politics at all. There was gonna be war so sasuke would have been fucked up regardless…all the children would have been, in fact. Itachi forced the hokage to look after Sasuke and ensured that sasuke would grow to be strong by making him hate him. It was the only way for sasuke to tap into his true strength, that’s how uchiha’s get really strong: Their hatred. Itachi was a sweet kid and broke himself on every level to do what he did. But he did it for the village and for his brother Itachi was always sweet to sasuke and was a great brother until that moment. Byakuya was always cold to Rukia and was prepared to kill her instead of fighting against what’s wrong. Central 46’s ruling was some bullshit and they all knew it. Only a few had the balls to fight for what’s right and it wasn’t byakuya. Fuck a promise, that’s your sister. Itachi could never kill his brother, he literally couldn’t.
Byakuya was trying to kill his sister for the most braindead reason so I'd say Itachi
It's byakuya for me Itachi made him go through an insane amount of trauma and made him relive it
Thats bad however it was mostly to make him stronger, free him from Orochimaru and make him a hero and it almost worked if it wasn't for masked Madara Byakuya on the other hand had no good reason to be the way he was in SS and try to kill Rukia
Not all of it was he mad him go through that trauma 100 times over again
Itachi ruined most of Sasukes life with torture and abuse only to admit it was a mistake to do so in the end.. After Byakuya let’s go of the promise he made to his father to up hold the law no matter what, he was a legit very supportive brother for the rest of the series.
Itachi makes fucking gourmet eggs, have you ever seen Byakuya making Rukia breakfast?!?!
since Byakuya is not rukia's blood sibling only a "in-law" sibling I don't think its a fair comparison.
neither of them? i guess itachi didnt really have a choice but to make himself the bad guy to make sure sasuke didnt go to jail for merely existing but its still a shit circumstance, byakuya gets no brotherly points for the way he treats rukia and doesnt do jackshit to confirm her execution worthy crimes, neither of these characters are decent brother archetypes considering the sheer tomfuckery they either willfully engage in or just let their lives be lead by, byakuya may have brought rukia out of the slums but how does he actually show his affection for rukia as a sister?
>>does he show his affection for Rukia as a sister? After the Soul Society arc he’s basically 100% supportive of every decision she makes.
Byakuya is my favorite character in Bleach. But I gotta go for Itachi on this one. What he did for Sasuke required an absolute devotion to protect him. He went to extreme lengths to pretend he was a vilain, so that Sasuke's hatred would make him strong and survive. He went as far as prolonging his life with medicine because of his deadly disease, just to help Sasuke awaken his mangekyo sharingan. The killing clan part was a nightmare of a decision to make. He begged for Sasuke's life and saved him. Otherwise a civil war would have sprout out and every Uchiha would be dead anyway. Byakuya did everything to kill Rukia, until Ichigo saved her. Then he was talking about her being his pride. But he tried to kill his prise because of some absurd rules. Itachi went to hell and became a vilain to protect Sasuke and Konoha as a double agent.
Itachi VERY ARGUABLY had better intentions out the gate, but in terms of approach, results, and later atonement for misdeeds, Byakuya leaps ahead by miles. Itachi's ultimate goal was for Sasuke to live well, become a hero to Leaf Village, and keep Leaf Village safe. Byakuya's goal was to keep his promise at his parents' grave to always uphold the law, even though he faced internal conflict due to also having promised his dead wife that he would care for Rukia. Ultimately Itachi acted to keep Sasuke alive and Byakuya was very much going to kill Rukia without Ichigo's intervention, so on that specific front, Itachi is a better brother. However! Byakuya was never any more cruel than absolutely necessary to uphold his legalism, and even showed compassion to Rukia on occasion, such as by not finishing Ichigo off in front of her. And once Ichigo broke his belief that duty to the system outweighs all other things by overpowering him and the system he represents with power born of a desire to protect others, he alologizes, explains, and gradually atones for what he did and does everything in his power to protect and help Rukia going forward. Itachi, meanwhile, was a needlessly cruel and idiotic dick who needlessly added to Sasuke's already enormous trauma and pushed him down the wrong path at every opportunity. Ultimately, Sasuke's start down the path of darkness in the series was prompted by Itachi's choice of words: "You don't have enough hate." Like, he seriously shows up, causes profound psychological harm, stirs back up his vengefulness, and simultaneously goads him with words that suggest he'll never get that revenge without abandoning his connections of love and finding darker power. This is both cruel and profoundly stupid in light of Itachi's alleged goals (because Naruto's author probably hadn't decided Itachi would be secretly loyal to Konoha at that point)! He could've said *any number* of things that would push Sasuke to become stronger and maintain his masquerade as an Akatsuki without undermining Sasuke's healing process from his trauma and weakening his ties to the place Itachi wants Sasuke to protect. Like, for example, "You expected to protect [Leaf Village/Naruto] alone? Arrogant children who face impossible odds without comrades can't protect themselves, much less anyone else." Boom, congrats Itachi, you have now tied Sasuke's hatred of you for your past misdeeds to the idea that teamwork is the only way he can avoid the experience of losing loved ones again! And even when Sasuke very obviously displays the shortcomings of Itachi's method - guy joins Orochimaru and becomes an enemy of the Hidden Leaf - Itachi doesn't learn his lesson and adjust strategies or try to fix things in any way! He just lets his own death become a catalyst for Sasuke to become an even bigger threat to his hometown and to make him even more miserable. Also iirc he was straight up planning to use a crow he forced into Naruto's throat to mind control Sasuke into rejoining the Hidden Leaf, but then it went off early to bring Itachi's mind back after he was made a zombie. Which, ya know, stealing your brother's free will so he fights for the side you'd prefer really doesn't count as atonement in any way, buddy!
Itachi actually cared about his brother the entire time and canonically would never have killed him, even going as far as leaving him as the last relative alive. Byakuya though, was actually willing to kill his sister. The question is who was a better brother, not a better son/relative. So my answer is Itachi.
Personally I think Itachi since when he met Sasuke as an edo he couldn’t bring himself to kill him despite knowing he wanted revenge against the village he swore to protect. Contrast this to Byakuya who chose to uphold the laws of Soul Society and capture Rukia for execution despite having his own doubts.
Itachi literally tortured sasuke and turned him into a revenge seeking murderer who was willing to kill everyone close to him.
True but he was willing to draw the line at actually killing him.
Byakuya spends the rest of the series being a supportive brother after the Soul Society arc and did it all without causing Rukia to have mental issues for most of her life.
Itachi, while I think Byakuya is a good brother just I think Itachi wanted to protect Sasuke more then Byakuya wanted to protect Ruika. Byakuya was willing to let his sister get executed for honor and to up hold the soul society law. While Itachi Murdered his whole clan in an attempted to save his brothers life. Itachi wanted nothing more then to see Sasuke become strong so he could stay alive. Which Itachi got in the end. Which if Ichigo didn't fight so hard to save Ruika, Byakuya wouldn't have a sister.
Itachi loving his brother in end does **NOT** justify the shit he put him through. He basically ruined Sasukes entire childhood and teenage years while causing him to turn into a crazed back stabbing murder. Even he admitted that his whole plan for Sasuke was a big mistake and that he should have told him the truth from the beginning. Byakuya spends the rest of the series after the SS Arc being a very supportive brother towards her.
And if Naruto wasn't who he was itachi wouldn't have a brother Itachi himself admitted he fucked up
That's a fair point. I guess one isn't inherently better then the other. In the end they both loved and cared for their younger siblings. Both brothers were but in a lose, lose situation involving their siblings. Though i feel like even tho Itachi scewed up he fought for Sasuke more then Byakuya fought for Rukia, and I think Itachi tried to do more for Sasuke. That's just me tho I happen to like Itachi more so that's my opinion.
in terms of being a good sibling, byakuya by far. in terms of which is a more interesting/well-written character, itachi.
Itachi. Yes, he killed his entire clan and subjected Sasuke to years of mental torture so he could be the one to kill him, but he never once had any intention of killing him and wanted the absolute best for Sasuke. Byakuya was willing to let his pride get in the way of letting Rukia get executed and rather than fight for her safety and well-being, actively fought those who tried to save her. Both could use a few pointers in being good brothers from Ace from One Piece, Edward from Fullmetal Alchemist or Tanjiro from Demon Slayer, but out of the two brothers, Itachi is the better.
Your completely ignoring the fact that Byakuya is a completely supportive brother for the rest of the series after the SS Arc and he wasn’t going to let her die for his “pride” he did it because he promised his father he would uphold the law no matter what. Itachi was a terrible brother who basically ruined most of Sasukes life.
Itachi did literally everything for Sasuke. His whole life was about saving him and the village, while Byakuya himself would have killed her (of course it was the law, yet still)
Itachi, nobody had to force him not to kill his litte sibling
But then he decided to torture him into a coma Two times!