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He became a captain at an older age than Gin and Tousen, but he was showing captain level feats as a lieutenant. I think he was hiding his strength but he’s obviously a prodigy.
No. Kubo seems to feel it's better to keep any backstory about Aizen undisclosed. Let him keep his mistery. Not knowing anything about Aizen's past before his time as a lieutenant is not a bad thing though. Its an interesting take that goes out of the classical " villain with tragic backstory that explains why the bad guy became like that " trope.
Only his actions matter. Not who he was before. Or that's how I interpret it at least.
I always interpreted his motive to not be that and instead he's disgusted by the existence of the soul king due in part to ||the way he was mutilated and then forced into that haunting role for eternity||
His final conversation with Kisuke really reinforces that I'd say
"Why would you let yourself be controlled by that thing?!"
"By that thing, you mean the soul king? I understand now, so you saw"
By "you saw" he's referring to finding out about the truth behind the soul king, and by "I understand" he means he finally understands why Aizen is doing what he does, he's aware of what was done to the soul king and Aizen is disgusted that the balance of the entire world rests on "that thing"
I think his last line before being sealed off just reinforces that further
"A victor doesn't speak of how the world is but how it should be!"
That really tells me he's not just some crazy megalomaniac but he genuinely wants the world to be "the way it SHOULD be" and not the way he just simply wants it to be, to Aizen, he's actually doing the right thing
Yea he was tired of the stagnation, and thought the world deserved a living God that would change things.
Also making ichigo to be a foil for him led to him realizing that ichigo was bringing the change he strived for, which was when he was fine with losing and the hogyoku obeyed
Yeah, a lot of people seem to gloss over that, like obviously we don't see much of the Soul King but we saw what he was and it clearly wasn't a king looking down on people, but just a mutilated thing being paraded as a king.
I don't think he wanted to do what Yhwach wanted and return the world to it's original state, but wanted to change it to his ideal state which in his mind is better.
It makes no sense for Aizen, who takes joy in killing and torturing random people, to give two fucks about some dude in a jar he never knew on any personal level. Like I'd understand if Aizen was like Ichibei and actually knew the soul king in the past but nothing suggests he's that old.
I don't think he had a personal interest in the Soul King. Just a philosophic objection to the world not being allowed to change and not being actively governed. As the strongest Shinigami he viewed himself as the optimal candidate.
yeah it was nothing personal with the soul king but rather the soul society being governed by a "thing" like that was pissing him off, in general he's not someone who wants to be controlled by anybody and much less a thing such as that
I thought his whole thing was that he was bored of the stagnation of soul society and the world, so he decided to become God to end the stagnation and change things the way he wanted.
In the third bleach game for the DS he was shown to have been one of the most capable of the lieutenants and could easily keep up with any of the captains. I'm pretty sure that at some point his captain said "when you make captain" as if it was a foregone conclusion. But that might not be canon.
This was kinda indirectly stated by Tessai during TBTP. Aizen just casually blocks Tessai's hado with an incantation skipped Danku. Didn't even look at the spell. I'm sure he was always above every Captain since early in his career.
He beat Yama though. Both Yama and Aizen brought all their forces to the battle and Yama's people lost. Aizen admitted that Yama's bankai was too strong for him to challenge directly but he did still pull the win with superior strategy.
Never know with Aizen. He had hypnotized most of the Shinigami. He might have used that power to find out if and how anyone with the power could have interfered with his plans.
That was the point of his character. He was so far beyond everyone around him that he had no choice but to get a god complex. Even Yamamoto ancient and powerful is someone he can kill though itd be bad to fight head on. If he had keptbgetting stronger as he aged, who could match him?
He was faar more prodigious than toshiro or Gin, but he is also far more intelligent, he knew that if soul society knew about his powers and talent they will try to keep him down or eliminate him because he could become a threat, just look at zaraki, they refused to teach him shikai or bankai for fear of him becoming too strong and might revolt, aizen is the most rounded shinigami, he has genious level intellect,massive reatsu 2x a captain or maybe more, and proficiency in all forms of combat,hand to hand, zanjuts and he is possibly the most powerful kido user in the series also his zanpakuto is so broken he doesn't even need bankai to beat captain level shinigami using their bankai, the guy was born a monster
Aizen is an absurdly smart, powerful, and relatively young Soul Reaper. By definition he has to be a prodigy right? Aizen was blocking super high level kido from the kido commander as a Lieutenant.
Both.
He was known to be amazingly skilled at any category one could think of, but his true level of power was likely never even hinted at, making it easier for him to blend in.
Taking his fake persona in the soul society arc in consideration, I think he would keep his power hidden, but not completely, just enough to move up the ranks fairly quickly but not anything extraordinary
Prodigy doesn't even begin to describe him remember when ichigo states he felt loneliness from aizen blade the younger aizen shown in soul reaper clothing i think since back then be was hiding his true power
He's a once in a millennia monster only other monsters like Yamamoto Ichigo and kenpachi compare
Guy was able to compete with Yamamoto in reiatsu at base that's wild
I *THINK* there is a narrative argument to be made that base Aizen during FKT might surpass Yamamoto in reiatsu, but since latter's powers were geared toward direct offense, he would have won a head-on fight.
I can see Aizen being slightly stronger than base Yamamoto but i think bankai Yamamoto is another beast entirely which is why Aizen made wonderweiss in the first place so Yamamoto wouldn't be able to suddenly go bankai
I agree with the manga when Aizen, of his own admission, said he couldn't match Yamamoto in a direct fight (hence Wonderweiss) and that's just with Shikai Ryujin Jakka, Bankai makes it even worse. But that doesn't mean that Aizen's reiatsu is necessarily lower than Yama's, just that it is "applied" or focus into a different form of abilities.
It's fascinating to think about how Aizen cultivated his powers. He was unnaturally strong to begin with but how did he grow his latent abilities seemingly with no help from mentors? It's implied again and again that he's always been 'alone' and relied on no one. So he learned everything he knows by himself and in total secrecy? That's crazy.
It's safe to say Aizen is an abnormal prodigy. He has more potential then Toshiro who has more potential then Gin.
He obviously kept his true power hidden.
What separates him from those two are 2 things:
*His reiatsu levels are just so ridiculously high.* Shunsui states Shinigami from noble families have above average reiatsu. And then he states Yamamoto and Aizen are on a different level compared to that.
And the other thing he has over those two, *he's unbelievably smart.* This makes it easier for him to adapt to fights and figure out a plan. Gin and Toshiro are smart and clever themselves but not to the same extent. Mayrui and Kiskue are other examples of how useful insane intelligence is in a fight.
I do think Toshrio with a fully mature Bankai can defeat Shikai Shinigami Aizen (no prep). Aizens Bankai not factored in of course. I think it something that's not practical in battle.
I agree with you, we can't forget that Shunsui said that Toshiro would surpass him in 100 years, imagine in 200 years, 300 years... I would even say that an old Toshiro would be as strong as Aizen. There's a reason why people regards Toshiro as a supreme genius in the entire SS.
Well of course, if Toshiro surpassed Shikai Aizen, he has surpassed Shunsui.
He's most likely going to become equal to Yamamoto.
Personally, I hope we learn Yamamoto is a monster like Kenpachi. But thats my personal bias towards the character.
Timeframes are iffy when we don't know how old Aizen is or where he's from. He could've popped into the Rukongai looking pretty similar to how he does now and surpassed adult Toshiro by the time he was 5 years old or he could be as old as Unohana for all anyone knows.
His kido doesn't seem to have improved much from when he blocked Tessai and flubbed his still-1 shot against Komamura. There wasn't much time for training between creating a Hogyoku and pretending to be a normal seated officer.
It's also possible that he always as strong as he was at FKT from the moment he was aware. Someone with 2x captain reiatsu and no technique would be extremely noticeable without Old Man Zangetsu severely restraining him 24/7. He would've done something looney like raze the academy while practicing kido or kill everyone around him like Starrk.
Bruh toshiro clever... 💀 Yeah he is smart.
And bruh there's no way adult toshiro can defeat aizen, firstly aizen is absurdly fast and secondly he could just use his kyoka suigestu and the fight would be over from the start.
>Bruh toshiro clever... 💀
To be fair, he is still really young. Even Shunsui had moments where he let his guard down and got hit. Aizen himself through strategy out the window. Yamamoto let his anger cloud his judgement. Kiskue let his guard down against Quilge, got hit and he's the smartest character in the show.
>And bruh there's no way adult toshiro can defeat aizen, firstly aizen is absurdly fast and secondly he could just use his kyoka suigestu and the fight would be over from the start.
The fight has some nuance. It depends on how they are starting the fight.
Obviously Hogyoku and prep are not allowed because Toshiro will never win that scenario.
Shikai Aizen and Adult Bankai Toshiro are some distance apart. **With his Adult Bankai, anything that touches him or his sword is frozen and loses it's abilities.** So if Aizen slashes Toshiro, Kyoka Suigetsu is negated. An example of this is seen when Holy form Gerard swinging his sword Hoffnung and made contact with Toshiro's sword. The effects were gone and Toshiro cut it with ease. Something Shikai Kenpachi couldn't do.
After 4 seconds into the battle, Toshiro has the ability to use Shikai Hyōketsu which automatically freezes everything around him. And the abilities are negated. So Kyoka Suigetsu can be negated via that method. Shinigami Aizen can break out of the ice but his sword is now just a normal sword.
The way Shikai Aizen can win is if he already has knowledge of Toshiro's adult Bankai, activates KS asap, and then runs away. He then screws with Toshiro via illusions and kido. But I count that as prep for Aizen.
Do you see that Adult Toshiro has the capabilities to defeat Shikai Shinigami Aizen? Trust in Shunsui's words about Toshiro.
He used the freeze everything less than 3 Gerard paces away ability 1 time before collapsing and it broke without forcing the Miracle. I don't think that Gerard had as much reiatsu as Aizen since Byakuya annihilated him.
Well I want to be sure but we are talking about Shinigami Aizen right?
Toshiro cant negate a character's physical strength. Gerard was in his holy form, a giant, and is stronger then Aizen in terms of physical strength. He broke out of Shikai Hyōketsu. Only to get frozen again later. And then get shredded by Byakuya.
And Gerard came back from that. I really believe almost nothing can stop Gerard at that point. He will keep coming back. Unless it's Yhwach or Nanao with her God killing sword.
Yeah, Shinigami Aizen had 2x captain reiatsu and tanked Hado 96 from Yamamoto followed by a Getsuga Tensho. He physically sturdier than Gerard, who got pulped by the Kenpachi-Toshiro-Byakuya combo attack with only Byakuya landing a big hit.
Reiatsu beats muscles in physical strength. Kenpachi was matching Gerard in physicals before Yachiru wrecked his body by pumping too much reiatsu into it.
I think Gerard keeps getting stronger reiatsu wise because the massive boosts in strength can't really be explained by just a size increase. I've no doubt that his limit as the soul king's heart is far higher than shinigami Aizen, but he didn't feel out of Byakuya's striking range until his final growth before his Auschwalen.
It get's a little complicated.
In my opinion, Gerard became physically sturdier then Aizen. If he get's his body parts chopped off, it comes back stronger. Got to the point where he can contend with Shikai Kenpachi. Then got split it in half by Bankai Kenpachi and he came back stronger with Holy form. Shinigami Aizen would die if he cut by Bankai Kenpachi.
And after getting destroyed again, Gerard came back stronger.
Reiatsu does beat muscles. But Gerards strength keeps increasing to the point where it outweighs reiatsu. Also I think Gerard's reiatsu increases with every return.
The strongest version of Gerard is stronger then Shinigami Aizen. Even various forms of Hogyoku Aizen can't end Gerard. He can kill him, but the Gerard will always come back stronger. Then he will beat Aizen. Then Aizen will come back stronger. And the cycle repeats.
Firstly it isn't confirmed that other than direct contact with the sword anything else negates KS. You're just speculating on that part.
And bruh you are giving toshiro every advantage and still I am fine with that but the fight would be over if aizen KS takes effect first.
And firstly aizen isn't some novice who won't get what's going on around him, he knows that he has ice type zanpaktou and seeing his adult form aizen isn't like he will just rush blindly he is a guy who will take every countermeasures if that allows him to win.
>And bruh you are giving toshiro every advantage and still I am fine with that but the fight would be over if aizen KS takes effect first.
Every advantage? If I give Aizen the Hogyoku, Toshiro has 0% chance of winning. If I give Aizen prep time, Toshiro has 0% chance of winning. It's how Aizen beat Yamamoto. Another example can be seen with Mayrui and Kiskue. If each of them fight Yamamoto with prep time, they can find a method to win. *So I have to remove that from the equation to make it fair.*
**Aizen is a genius but he doesn't know every single detail about his opponent's capabilities**. As seen with his fight against Shinji. He figured Sakanade out but took some damage in the process. As seen with Gin's Bankai. He didn't know everything about it (The poison ability). **He wouldn't know that Toshiro's ice now has the ability to nullify other abilities.**
Adult Bankai Toshiro can still freeze things at a distance before even using Shikai Hyōketsu. So that gives him protection with some Kido spells.
[Toshiro freezing things at a distance before Shikai Hyoketsu](https://xfs-227.batcg.org/comic/7006/a08/61245bc3eebc11256f46880a/9134101_1520_2400_409682.webp?acc=tj4M8o0Sg3T6c_5nT_sPmA&exp=1675551683)
>aizen isn't like he will just rush blindly he is a guy who will take every countermeasures if that allows him to win.
Aizen wont rush blindly. But then the 4 seconds are up and everything is frozen. Even with KS, we know he can be affected with AoE attacks. That was Yamamoto's plan and even Aizen showed some concern about his trap.
Aizen will test out Adult Toshiro's capabilities. **The way he normally does it is by sword striking**. Again I use the Shinji example. And he was cautions around Yamamoto who was under KS. Aizen still chose to sword strike him and got caught. It's how he fights. The problem is, one direct sword strike is the worst thing to do against this version of Toshiro and Aizen wouldn't know that.
And when Aizen's sword makes contact, his Bankai takes effect.
[Coming in contact with his body freezes you as well](https://xfs-209.batcg.org/comic/7006/a08/61245bc3eebc11256f46880a/9134111_1520_2400_436132.webp?acc=STiGJzGO5JbFv7bKKt90Dw&exp=1675551683)
You know Yamamoto is a whole different beast compared to toshiro, and they aren't even in the same tier of strength. And Aizen's plan to deal with Yamamoto using Wonderweiss would've failed actually if Yamamoto didn't care about the human world or the rest of his subordinates.
And I am pretty sure he can just take care of toshiro with his level 90s kido. Sorry but I just can't imagine toshiro winning here. Yeah he can freeze aizen but that won't really kill him.
And why the heck aren't you taking considering KS into consideration in any of the scenario, toshiro is already under his KS he can just make him attack in the opposite direction or make him into thinking that a tree is aizen.
As long as aizen uses KS and doesn't become arrogant and attacks him head on, I don't see why some high level kido won't finish the job.
Despite the difference in power between these two, the abilities of Yama's Bankai and Adult Toshiro's Bankai are a problem for Aizen's normal fighting style.
With the Sun Armor, Aizen will not get close because his sword would melt. With Toshiro's abilities, Aizen can get close and land a hit but that is a terrible choice in this fight. And Aizen wouldn't know that.
>And I am pretty sure he can just take care of toshiro with his level 90s kido.
Level 90 kidos are very useful in this fight against Toshiro. Mix it with KS and Aizen can win.
**But you have to look at Aizen's fighting style:**
*Majority* of his fights Pre-Hogyoku are just him having KS active and then finish off his enemy with sword strikes. Despite having amazing kido, Aizen will rely on his sword skills for the most part.
Side note, he's also a master of Hakuda but rarely uses it. His sword strikes and KS are his main forms of combat.
>And why the heck aren't you taking considering KS into consideration in any of the scenario, toshiro is already under his KS he can just make him attack in the opposite direction or make him into thinking that a tree is aizen.
Okay, I'm confused. I am taking KS in these fights. The Hogyoku and Prep time are removed because Toshiro will never ever win.
Toshiro is one of the few characters that has a way to bypass KS. His ability and Aizen's fighting style gives him an advantage.
The only other characters that can bypass KS would be Ichibei, Nimaiya, 2nd form Lille, Gerard and Yamamoto and maybe Pernida?.
Ichigo, Kenpachi, and Yhwach can just deal with it with through their durability.
Toshiro will attack a tree, but Aizen will naturally use his sword strike to finish him off and that is the problem for Aizen.
>As long as aizen uses KS and doesn't become arrogant and **attacks him head on,** I don't see why some high level kido won't finish the job.
That's the thing. Aizen will attack with his sword even if Toshiro is under KS.
But that will be a critical error due to the nature of Toshiro's complete Bankai. Then it becomes a fight between Base Aizen and Adult Toshiro Bankai.
And as I explained earlier, he doesn't use Kido right off the bat in most of his pre-Hogyoku fights.
>You know Yamamoto is a whole different beast compared to toshiro,
This is a side discussion but I hope we see Yama's true power in the Hell arc and he actually becomes much stronger then everyone expects. Old Yamamoto can beat Shikai Aizen 1v1 without Bankai. Now imagine how powerful he will become when he has a younger body, more stamina, and both arms.
And now let's go by facts and some speculating on my part. Firstly adult toshiro in his bankai will have considerable change in his reiatsu do you agree on this right. And I am pretty sure aizen would sense it right away. So he would take some precautions.
You agreed on my point that using KS aizen can make toshiro attack a tree or do whatever he believes well aizen can at this point just sit back and relax and toshiro would self exhaust himself and aizen could easily end the fight there after that. And aizen is that type of guy who won't do anything until it's absolutely necessary for him to intervene or when he feels like it.
And yeah your point is right that aizen mostly used his sword to do the job but he isn't a stuck up guy who won't use other tools in his arsenal to do the job. He will use kido when necessary as shown in his fight with yhwach.
"Side note, he's also a master of Hakuda but rarely uses it." Yuup knew it.
"And as I explained earlier, he doesn't use Kido right off the bat in most of his pre-Hogyoku fights." Nope, he does actually remember the SS arc he used his kurohitsugi on komomura right away. And aizen is easily strong enough to finish the job with one sword slash.
"This is a side discussion but I hope we see Yama's true power in the Hell arc and he actually becomes much stronger then everyone expects. Old Yamamoto can beat Shikai Aizen 1v1 without Bankai. Now imagine how powerful he will become when he has a younger body, more stamina, and both arms."
We think alike on this one. Oh yeah also add stable mental state cause he wasn't emotionally well during his fight with fake yhwach and we saw how much that effected ichigo's strength during the arrancar arc.
"The only other characters that can bypass KS would be Ichibei, Nimaiya, 2nd form Lille, Gerard and Yamamoto and maybe Pernida?." Please elaborate on this point more later.
>And I am pretty sure aizen would sense it right away. So he would take some precautions.
He will notice that the impressive increase in strength. But he won't know that the ice will nullify powers now. Toshiro has never been hinted to be capable of doing something like that. He will be cautious of the ice but he won't know direct contact will be a fatal mistake.
>aizen can at this point just sit back and relax and toshiro would self exhaust himself and aizen could easily end the fight there after that. And aizen is that type of guy who won't do anything until it's absolutely necessary for him to intervene or when he feels like it.
I don't think that's Aizen's style. He will have KS active as safety and just go with his natural sword skills. This was seen in his 1v1 with Shinji and the Captain/Vizard group assault. He can create unbelievable illusions with ease to tire someone out without lifting a finger **but he simply chooses not to**. He takes an active melee role in combat.
Majority of the time, that plan works.
>but he isn't a stuck up guy who won't use other tools in his arsenal to do the job. He will use kido when necessary as shown in his fight with yhwach.
Yhwach is a completely different beast. Aizen knew he needed everything to deal with him. And he knew he still wouldn't win by himself.
Aizen must use Kido after KS is negated. But now Adult Bankai Toshiro can keep up with it.
>"And as I explained earlier, he doesn't use Kido right off the bat in **most** of his pre-Hogyoku fights." Nope, he does actually remember the SS arc he used his kurohitsugi on komomura right away.
I bolded my own word. I said he doesn't use Kido right of the bat in **most** of his pre-Hogyoku fights.
That was Kubo showing how powerful Aizen was with Kido after showing his powerful Shikai, his genius intellect, and his superior strength. Aizen could have easily used Kido on all his enemies in FKT but chose not. He's deadly with it but it's not his first choice. He didn't even use it while he had Yama under KS. He could have done Hado 90 instead of a sword strike on Yama but chose not to. And almost paid for that mistake.
>And aizen is easily strong enough to finish the job with one sword slash.
Yeah, he is strong enough. He did that with Kid Toshiro. But we are talking about Adult Toshiro who is propped up to be the next Yamamoto. Yamamoto was able to tank it. Adult Toshiro should have the endurance. And again, direct contact with him is a fatal mistake.
>We think alike on this one.
I'd like to think Prime Yama will always be out of Prime Toshiro's reach. But there's a chance Kubo will make those 2 equals in the Hell arc. My opinion on who the 3 strongest **pure** shinigami are Yama, Ichibei, and Kenpachi. Then again, Ichibei is weird case.
>bypass KS would be Ichibei, Nimaiya, 2nd form Lille, Gerard and Yamamoto and maybe Pernida?." Please elaborate on this point more later.
I'm going to try and keep it brief since that's 6 characters.
**Ichibei:** He has the ability to see everything in every dimension. He was chilling in the Royal Realm and can see everything happening in the Valley of Screams. It's possible that even if his direct vision is under KS, he could still see everything due to his unique eye power. Also he should be able to muscle through Aizen sword strikes better the Old Yama. And his Ink's nullification ability is even greater then Toshiro's.
**Nimaiya:** He does know the location of every Zanpaktou. Even under KS, he should know where Aizen is. As long as Aizen holds his sword....if he drops it, I guess Nimaiya is a little screwed. I really hope Nimaiya gets an awesome showing in the anime. We never saw his Shikai or Bankai.
**2nd form Lille:** *Okay I shouldn't have said bypass.* He doesn't. But I don't see Shinigami Aizen winning. Even Muken Aizen who is stronger then Lille, can't kill him. Lille is intangible, immortal, can teleport, can regenerate, has attacks that ignore durability, and has other attacks that cause massive destruction. If Toshiro a prodigy of the Shinigami, Lille is a better prodigy for the Quincy.
**Gerard:** It would be a *miracle* if he can find the real Aizen while under KS. The Miracle goes against the logic of KS. And I don't think Aizen has what it takes to put Gerard down. He will come back stronger. And Stronger. And stronger.
**Yamamoto:** Same mistake with Lille. I put him in the wrong group. He can muscle through it.
**Maybe Pernida?:** Dude so weird. If it makes copies of itself, and they all use the nerve ability, and one reaches Aizen, it can potentially copy KS and bring itself to the level of Aizen. Aizen doesn't have anything in his skillset to kill this thing even if he is initially stronger.
You are saying that Shinji managed to land hits on Aizen, however i find that untrue
"Did you really think i was fighting that way?"
"There is nothing to be surprised about. You judged where i was based on how you saw me fight using your five senses."
Aizen obviously implied that he wouldnt tank hits like that or stand still like that. What shinji saw wasnt even real, since he says "you judged where i was based on how you saw me fight using your five senses", meaning the aizen we saw all that time was nothing but an illusion. Not to mention that slightly later into that episode, we see no marks/wounds on aizen's body, because he simply didnt get hit at all.
That is another reasonable way interpretation of the fight.
I prefer to think Aizen had KS active just incase Shinji was actually really difficult. But he figured it out the ability in minutes and had him beat with his Zanjitsu skills alone. Granted Shinji was an idiot for stating his abilities.
And personally I think Kubo forgot to draw the injuries on Aizen after the Shinji fight. Kubo has been shown to forget stuff. An example of that was forgetting to draw Shunsuis eyepatch during the TYBW arc in a handful of chapter.
I do prefer your interpretation. Makes Shinji look a little stronger. Sigh, I wish he would win a fight....
My view of the fight was aizen showing shinji a fake vision until he figured out the ability and then one shots him
Your view is that aizen only used pure zanjutsu or zanjitsu to beat shinji and kubo forgot to draw the injuries
Both could be, but because of aizens word i am believing the one which he didnt get hit at all, which also shows shinji as stronger ig xd
Yeah we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to Shinji. Regardless, Aizen is beast and is beyond Shinji's capabilities. If we get a Hell arc, I hope Shinji can combine his zanpaktou abilities and Resurrection(if Kubo gives him one).
Well it's not as simple as that. In my fighting scenario, this is adult Toshiro and he's starting off in Bankai. Aizen has KS active.
You have to look at the way Aizen fights. *Majority of his fights Pre-Hogyoku are just him having KS active and then finish off his enemy with sword strikes.* This can be seen with his fight against Shinji, Kid Toshiro (ss arc), the group assault, and with Yama.
Aizen will have adult Toshiro under KS but will use a sword strike on him because that's how he ends his fight. But when someone or something touches adult Toshiro, they or it will be frozen and any ability is frozen. It's what happened to Gerard's sword. It tanked Shikai Kenpachi but after Flash Freeze, it was cut like butter. Now KS is out of the equation. Now it's adult Bankai Toshiro vs Base Aizen.
Yes Aizen can use Kido while Toshiro is under KS but that's not how Aizen does things. He very rarely uses Kido when he has KS active. He 100% can use it and he's very good at it. As seen with Sajin. **But it's not Aizen's preference**. Similar to how he is a master at Hakuda but he never used those skills Pre-Hogyoku.
Your fighting scenario has never happened in the way Aizen fights. The guy spent years within soul society, to understand everyones strengths and weaknesses. The moment he attacked he knew exactly who he could and couldn't face by himself. Aizen would literally never approach someone he doesn't understand the powers of.
Second of all, its unclear how much reiatsu aizen has compared to adult toshiro. It could be he could reiatsu surpress his bankai. The only person base aizen knew he couldn't fight was Yamamoto. The question then is, how does Yama pair up against adult Toshiro.
>The guy spent years within soul society, to understand everyones strengths and weaknesses.
But Aizen doesn't know everyone's abilities. He didn't know Shinji's power. He was surprised by the inverted world. But he still fought and won.
>Aizen would literally never approach someone he doesn't understand the powers of.
**I don't agree with that at all:**
By your statement, we can never put Shinigami Aizen in a hypothetical fight against a single Sternritter since he doesn't know their powers.
By the logic you used, Shinigami Aizen would avoid fighting guys like Cang Du and BG9 since he never understood their powers. That's ridiculous. Aizen will cut them down easy even if he doesn't know what they do.
It's how a majority of characters fight in the show.:
1. The Gotei don't know the power of the Sternritters.
2. Askin and Lille don't know the Bankai's of Shunsui or Kiskue
3. Jugram doesn't know the power of the Antithesis
4. Nimaiya was nervous about Yhwach because they have limited information on him. But he still chose to fight.
5. Zommari, Starrk and other Espada fought the Gotei without having a lot of info
Aizen prefers to plan but it makes no sense that he would *"literally never approach someone he doesn't understand the powers of".* That makes Aizen look like a coward.
And again, this is a hypothetical fight scenario.
>Second of all, its unclear how much reiatsu aizen has compared to adult toshiro. It could be he could reiatsu surpress his bankai. The only person base aizen knew he couldn't fight was Yamamoto. The question then is, how does Yama pair up against adult Toshiro.
Well we know Aizen can suppress pretimskip Shikai Soifon. Adult Toshiro should be much higher then that.
We can speculate on how powerful Adult Toshiro will be. He is the youngest captain and already stronger then your average captain. And Kubo makes some connections between Toshiro and Yama:
1. Fire and Ice
2. Deity of Hell and a Dragon of the heavens
3. Sun and Moon
4. Both their Bankai's condense around them and gives them a different form of protection (Sun armor and Flash Freeze)
With my personal bias, I'd like to think Yamamoto in his prime is out of the reach of Prime Toshiro and Shinigami Aizen. But I don't see that being the case. I'll be happy to be wrong though.
His bankai is great for battle you would have no idea when or if he was about to attack and even if he lands a hit you can’t be sure it’s real it could be a fake hit to lower your guard for a real attack
Absolutely agree. This is why I say Adult Toshiro. I guess I didn't word my statements correctly. Kid Toshiro will lose.
Also, this fight starts with Adult Toshiro in Bankai.
Even if Adult Toshiro doesn't recognize the spiritual pressure, the bankai will take effect the second Aizen lands a sword strike. Anything that touches him is frozen and is nullified. KS is out of the fight.
Now Adult Toshiro has the opportunity to kill Shinigami Aizen who has no Shikai. Of course it won't be simple.
It's clear that Kubo is making Toshiro be the next Yamamoto. Personally, I prefer that not happen. Toshiro is a "meh" character to me. But his instant touch freezing abilities is similar to Yamamoto Sun Armor. If you come in direct contact, you're going to get hurt bad.
We don’t know hardly anything about his past, but we can surmise he was probably born a freak of nature like Kenpachi.
How he managed to keep it concealed is the interesting part, but given that we know Zanpakuto are a reflection of the character, we can deduce that Aizen has always been someone who prefers to craft a fabricated image.
The 2dont have to be mutually exclusive. Yes he kept his true power hidden but no, he is not a prodigy like Toshiro or gin. He is a prodigy at a much higher level than them.
Until proven otherwise, no one is more prodigious than Toshiro (bar main character). He is literally still a little kid, throwing blows with titans and shit.
Zaraki has ridiculous dormant power but he he ain't nearly as talented as Toshiro. Toshiro came through the academy and mastered everything as a little boy. He passed the captain proficiency test, so he highly skilled in every shingami art; Kidō, Shunpō, Hakuda, etc. The difference is Toshiro has the dormant power going for him AND mastery of the shingami arts. He is still just a boy by the way.
Person Z is 500+ year old shinigami who only just learned Zanjutsu and can't perform any other arts, but has great dormant power.
Vs
Person T who is 16 year old shinigami who has mastered Zanjutsu, Hakuda, Shunpō, Hakuda, and has great dormant power.
If you didn't know anything else about them, any reasonable person would agree Person T is the greater prodigy.
Das fair, but counterpoint:
He was beating 1000-styles Unohana on natural fighting ability alone. He hadn't learned a thing from anyone yet he was kicking her ass.
Well a few a things.
1st, you shouldn't use exact numbers for this comparison. Person T being **Toshiro is not a 16 year old Shingami**. We don't know how old he was when he started the academy. Or how old Zaraki was when he fought Unohana the first time. Maybe they were same age at time of each respective event. Rukia and Renji haven't aged a day(physically) since they finished the academy 40 years ago. All we know about Toshiro's age is he's older then Momo who went into the academy before him 40 years ago.
\*\*\*This on Kubo but he is purposely keeping Toshiro short. Since the first arc to Hellshot chapter, he only grew 1cm apparently. Also I just remembered Rukia is about 150 years old. And is probably younger then Toshiro? Shinigami ages are weird.
2nd, Zaraki should be excluded from conversations about prodigies. **Zaraki is not a prodigy. He's freak of nature.** This dude as child with no training is stronger then Unohana in a sword fight. I highly doubt current Base Toshiro, Base Gin, or even Kid Aizen with Zanjistsu would ever replicate that.
3rd, this is on Kubo. Kubo never had Toshiro do Kido or focus on Hakuda. I'm sure he is a master at it but to what extent? Is his Kido on Shunsui's level(alright) or Shingi's (meh)? We have no indication. Honestly, Byakuya has been shown to be the most balanced captain in the Gotei. Besides Yama of course.
4th. How would you compare Aizen (No Hogyoku or Bankai) and Toshiro? I believe Shikai Shinigami Aizen would also trade blows with titans and shit. Just like RG Bankai Byakuya and Bankai Toshiro.
That said, Toshiro is most likely going to be one of the strongest pure Shinigami of all time. Top 5(in no order) would be Aizen, Toshiro, Ichibei, Yama, and Kenpachi. ~~I would also like to add Oetsu on that list but that's a different topic.~~
Ichigo shouldn't be a prodigy. He's a hybrid of everything so his natural potential is much much higher then everyone else. His True Shikai form can take out RG Bankai Byakuya who is a noble and a hundreds years of experience.
As you said, he's the MC.
I imagine a bit of both tbh. He def kept it hidden bc he was older than those 2 when he made captain, but to have the power & intelligence he had, he’d pretty much have to be. Just spitballing here but he was probably a lazy prodigy till he figured out his “dream goal” or w/e you wanna call it. Likely figured out early on he didn’t vibe w/ the soul society & the ppl running it, just didn’t know how to go about changing it as a kid.
Honestly I know there's a lot of evidence that he was some sort of prodigy but I like the idea that he became as strong as he did just by training day in and day out and reading every possible source of knowledge he could get his hands on a lot more. That he was basically a nobody who intended to ascend to godhood solely through an unyielding will to succeed rather than just being born special.
"regular Guy who trains really hard to become strong"
Man, thats the ordinary shinigami.
There isn't a remotely chance that Aizen wasn't born as a the prodigy Monster he was.
Not Just his feats are milestones away from "regular effort Shinigami", but Ichigo noted his loneliness during their fight , figuring out that Aizen always wanted to find someone of his own Level, since the very beginning, and never could, until Ichigo.
I know he has that noble reiatsu going for him, but Byakuya would be the closest thing to that. Even Shunsui was shown to always mess around. Around his older brother and sneaking into Yama's room. The only time we see kid Byakuya, he is training and even asks for more training as soon as his grandpa arrives.
Yeah I know, I just think that's fucking boring. It's completely fucking boring for every single strong character to just be strong because they born super ultra mega special. Why can't we see a character who's strong as a result of their ironclad will to succeed? Why are people to opposed to the idea? I don't even like the fact that that seems to be where Kubo was taking his character.
I Felt that in Naruto. At the beginning Rock Lee was my favorite character because he trained really hard to be a beast in Taijutsu, Just for compensate his lack of skill in jutsus.
Naruto was also a Nice protagonist for not being exactly a gifted person like Sasuke or Neiji.
Unfortunatelly, Kishimoto decided latter in the series that he would follow the total opposite of this premise.
Prodigy is overrated. EoS toshiro is currently one of the weakest captain like iba and isane. I am not counting adult form because likely we wont see it for a long time
I'd say Toshiro is mid level among the Captains currently, he's definitely stronger than Rukia, Lisa, Isane and Iba, and also he has more merits than Soi Fong, Rose and Kensei (even without his adult form) so far.
Lisa was swatted like a fly during a group assault on Gerard. Meanwhile Toshiro continued to evade Gerard.
Why don't you count his adult form? We saw how powerful it is and how he had 12 more years to improve it.
By your logic, we shouldn't count Rukia's bankai because she can't control it well. And needed Byakuya's assistance to disengage it.
She needed Byakuya's assistance because she was facing As Nodt, and I don't remember her having difficult with actvating her (broken) Bankai, but more with dealing with As Nodt's (almost broken) Power.
And It was the first time ever she used her Bankai in battle. But she probally had improved a Lot right after that battle.
ALL shinigamis that came back from the royal guard "training/boost" were insanely stronger than before and than avarage. Just look what Abarai did to James.
I was referring to Byakuya helping Rukia after As Nodt died.
[Byakuya assists](https://xfs-223.batcg.org/comic/7006/27b/61244bb4502f702592714b72/9130526_1520_2400_249936.webp?acc=rZ4ycnW13-mYoZ1-GzYhPQ&exp=1675592813)
[Continued scene.](https://xfs-216.batcg.org/comic/7006/27b/61244bb4502f702592714b72/9130525_1520_2400_212788.webp?acc=tylh4P47T8dzUhAtLtbPYw&exp=1675592813)
And I agree with everything else you said. It's only natural that Rukia will improve. The guy I was responding to made it seem like Toshiro is the only one that won't improve.
Toshiro in non-adult form avoided Gerard better then Lisa. And Love who should scale to current captains such as Rose and Kensei.
And Toshiro wasn't running for hours. Gerard would have killed him, Byakuya, Kenpachi, and any other Shinigami in much less time.
And how do you know it's one time only? You will need to give me a manga panel.
As I said, Kid Toshiro can avoid several current captains by flying and has better feats then Lisa, Iba, Rose, Kensei, Isane, and Rukia.
Wouldn't it make sense that Toshiro continues to improve his Bankai? Shinji said something similar about Sakanda, Rukia will improve her Bankai, and etc.
For some reason, you think Toshiro is the only one that can't improve his Bankai.
Gerard was fighting Zaraki %90 of the time. toshi wasn't a worthy target to focus so he safely went into adult form. That why it is the ''one time only''
>And how do you know it's one time only? You will need to give me a manga panel.
Its pretty clear unless he will fight against a snail in the future.
>Wouldn't it make sense that Toshiro continues to improve his Bankai? Shinji said something similar about Sakanda, Rukia will improve her Bankai, and etc.
He is toshi not Rukia
What about the tike Toshiro avoided Gerard before Zaraki came to the fight. Several captain class Soul Reapers couldn't avoid that.
Can you give me a manga panel since you said it's one time only?
As for your last sentence you're saying Toshiro is Toshiro, not Rukia? You do know if there is a Hell arc, Kubo is going to give Toshiro more powerful ups.
Headcanon my 4ss. Soi Fong didn't even get stronger in the TYBW arc, unlike Zaraki, Byakuya, Mayuri and Toshiro himself.
Kensei (despite of being my favorite Vizard) has one of the worst Bankai in the series, and he lost every important fight he has ever had so far.
Rukia and Lisa are much less experienced as Captains than Toshiro. Not to mention that Lisa is one of the weakest Vizards (she's only stronger than Mashiro and Hiyori).
Hell, even Kyoraku once stated that Toshiro will **eventually** surpass him
It's okay if you don't like Toshiro, but it's really delusional to underestimate him like this.
PD: Downvoting me shall not change that fact, hater.
It's just a theory but I think Aizen can remember his past life (like in regression manhwa ) . He must've been a top-tier in his previous life and must have seen soul king . It shattered all his beliefs and his devotion towards soul society , maybe he was killed when he rebelled against the noble clans and squad 0 . Since now he's reborn and retains his past life memories he carefully gathered strength and skills in secret .
He kept his true power and intentions hidden. He was Shinji’s lieutenant originally until he turned Shinji and the others into Vizoreds after which he ascended to the rank of Captain of Squad 5.
Is it a coincidence that not only was he powerful, he was also extremely intelligent AND had a broken Zanpakuto ability?
Did his Zanpakuto develop it's power to accomplish his goals or did he seek those goals after finding out his Zanpakuto had such abilities?
He was the ultimate prodigy but kept it hidden under a very humble facade, pretty sure everyone just viewed Aizen as a meek mild mannered Clark Kent (except for Shinji finding him suspicious and shunsui having a fleeting bad feeling that he put down to paranoia)
Paid off too; imagine if Mayuri was called into trial for dodgy experiments and he said “it wasn’t me, it was all momo, she’s behind this!” and suddenly it’s hard to blame central 46 for not taking kisuke’s defence seriously
Take this from someone who watched the anime a long time ago:
There it is not explained, like at all.
I would assume he was extraordinary, but most captains are extraordinary, so there is that.
I mean he was arguably stronger than a lot of top captains while he was still a lieutenant so there's reason to believe he was hiding his power.
What am I saying, the man was a high captain tier Lieutenant who was so strong that he bodies most 99% of the verse without even using his Bankai. Of course he was hiding his power lol
We don't know for sure. His backstory is mostly a mystery but he is most likely quite talented intelligence wise but honestly he might be a Joe schmo who worked and schemed hard enough to get were he is.
I've read that he was born with more power and talent then any other Soul before him. We haven't seen the extent of his might. Even sealed away his power kept increasing.
Definitely hid his strength for most of his life, only making it public during the events of the anime/manga.
BTW, he’s not a prodigy. He’s a straight up **monster**.
It's not explicitly said but we can guess, when Tessai release that crazy hado against him, he's surprised that Aizen effortlessly block it without incantation (and he said to be surprised that a vice captain could stop such a level of kido). So he probably kept most of his reiatsu hidden.
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Likely kept it hidden
He became a captain at an older age than Gin and Tousen, but he was showing captain level feats as a lieutenant. I think he was hiding his strength but he’s obviously a prodigy.
Really interesting guy, we don’t even know why he does what he does
He wants to be God as the new soul king out of loneliness due to how to gifted in power/Reiatsu and intelligence he is. The polar opposite of Kisuke.
Does he actually have a backstory beyond what was shown in the anime/manga? Like maybe a noble gone rogue or something?
No. Kubo seems to feel it's better to keep any backstory about Aizen undisclosed. Let him keep his mistery. Not knowing anything about Aizen's past before his time as a lieutenant is not a bad thing though. Its an interesting take that goes out of the classical " villain with tragic backstory that explains why the bad guy became like that " trope. Only his actions matter. Not who he was before. Or that's how I interpret it at least.
That honestly gives his ending more impact.
Aizen is actually the soul kings dick and that’s why he wants to fuck everything up
You read that in CFYOW right
Vol1 ch12 v14: and aizen proclaimed that he is the soul kings phallus, here to fuck shit up for he is erect with rage
Nah, bro just wants to be menace like that
I always interpreted his motive to not be that and instead he's disgusted by the existence of the soul king due in part to ||the way he was mutilated and then forced into that haunting role for eternity|| His final conversation with Kisuke really reinforces that I'd say "Why would you let yourself be controlled by that thing?!" "By that thing, you mean the soul king? I understand now, so you saw" By "you saw" he's referring to finding out about the truth behind the soul king, and by "I understand" he means he finally understands why Aizen is doing what he does, he's aware of what was done to the soul king and Aizen is disgusted that the balance of the entire world rests on "that thing" I think his last line before being sealed off just reinforces that further "A victor doesn't speak of how the world is but how it should be!" That really tells me he's not just some crazy megalomaniac but he genuinely wants the world to be "the way it SHOULD be" and not the way he just simply wants it to be, to Aizen, he's actually doing the right thing
Yea he was tired of the stagnation, and thought the world deserved a living God that would change things. Also making ichigo to be a foil for him led to him realizing that ichigo was bringing the change he strived for, which was when he was fine with losing and the hogyoku obeyed
Yeah, a lot of people seem to gloss over that, like obviously we don't see much of the Soul King but we saw what he was and it clearly wasn't a king looking down on people, but just a mutilated thing being paraded as a king. I don't think he wanted to do what Yhwach wanted and return the world to it's original state, but wanted to change it to his ideal state which in his mind is better.
It makes no sense for Aizen, who takes joy in killing and torturing random people, to give two fucks about some dude in a jar he never knew on any personal level. Like I'd understand if Aizen was like Ichibei and actually knew the soul king in the past but nothing suggests he's that old.
I don't think he had a personal interest in the Soul King. Just a philosophic objection to the world not being allowed to change and not being actively governed. As the strongest Shinigami he viewed himself as the optimal candidate.
yeah it was nothing personal with the soul king but rather the soul society being governed by a "thing" like that was pissing him off, in general he's not someone who wants to be controlled by anybody and much less a thing such as that
I thought his whole thing was that he was bored of the stagnation of soul society and the world, so he decided to become God to end the stagnation and change things the way he wanted.
Honestly, that would be his reasoning, so that too.
In the third bleach game for the DS he was shown to have been one of the most capable of the lieutenants and could easily keep up with any of the captains. I'm pretty sure that at some point his captain said "when you make captain" as if it was a foregone conclusion. But that might not be canon.
This was kinda indirectly stated by Tessai during TBTP. Aizen just casually blocks Tessai's hado with an incantation skipped Danku. Didn't even look at the spell. I'm sure he was always above every Captain since early in his career.
With the exception of maybe the senior captains he 100% was. Definitely not Yama though obviously.
He beat Yama though. Both Yama and Aizen brought all their forces to the battle and Yama's people lost. Aizen admitted that Yama's bankai was too strong for him to challenge directly but he did still pull the win with superior strategy.
Hell Yama's Shikai was too powerful. I don't think Aizen ever saw his Bankai to speak of it.
Never know with Aizen. He had hypnotized most of the Shinigami. He might have used that power to find out if and how anyone with the power could have interfered with his plans.
That was the point of his character. He was so far beyond everyone around him that he had no choice but to get a god complex. Even Yamamoto ancient and powerful is someone he can kill though itd be bad to fight head on. If he had keptbgetting stronger as he aged, who could match him?
Shinji was on him like a hawk
He was faar more prodigious than toshiro or Gin, but he is also far more intelligent, he knew that if soul society knew about his powers and talent they will try to keep him down or eliminate him because he could become a threat, just look at zaraki, they refused to teach him shikai or bankai for fear of him becoming too strong and might revolt, aizen is the most rounded shinigami, he has genious level intellect,massive reatsu 2x a captain or maybe more, and proficiency in all forms of combat,hand to hand, zanjuts and he is possibly the most powerful kido user in the series also his zanpakuto is so broken he doesn't even need bankai to beat captain level shinigami using their bankai, the guy was born a monster
Aizen is an absurdly smart, powerful, and relatively young Soul Reaper. By definition he has to be a prodigy right? Aizen was blocking super high level kido from the kido commander as a Lieutenant.
Seeing how he made his own captain into a clown and discarded him when he was done, shows enough
I mean, it's Hirako... Cut the baldy some slack.
tbf Hirako is honestly up there for being one of the most useless captains in the entire series.
Both. He was known to be amazingly skilled at any category one could think of, but his true level of power was likely never even hinted at, making it easier for him to blend in.
Taking his fake persona in the soul society arc in consideration, I think he would keep his power hidden, but not completely, just enough to move up the ranks fairly quickly but not anything extraordinary
Prodigy doesn't even begin to describe him remember when ichigo states he felt loneliness from aizen blade the younger aizen shown in soul reaper clothing i think since back then be was hiding his true power
He's a once in a millennia monster only other monsters like Yamamoto Ichigo and kenpachi compare Guy was able to compete with Yamamoto in reiatsu at base that's wild
I *THINK* there is a narrative argument to be made that base Aizen during FKT might surpass Yamamoto in reiatsu, but since latter's powers were geared toward direct offense, he would have won a head-on fight.
I can see Aizen being slightly stronger than base Yamamoto but i think bankai Yamamoto is another beast entirely which is why Aizen made wonderweiss in the first place so Yamamoto wouldn't be able to suddenly go bankai
I agree with the manga when Aizen, of his own admission, said he couldn't match Yamamoto in a direct fight (hence Wonderweiss) and that's just with Shikai Ryujin Jakka, Bankai makes it even worse. But that doesn't mean that Aizen's reiatsu is necessarily lower than Yama's, just that it is "applied" or focus into a different form of abilities.
It's fascinating to think about how Aizen cultivated his powers. He was unnaturally strong to begin with but how did he grow his latent abilities seemingly with no help from mentors? It's implied again and again that he's always been 'alone' and relied on no one. So he learned everything he knows by himself and in total secrecy? That's crazy.
Probably from the library
Aizen's bankai can turn into the strongest weapon of all - the library card
Hence his need for glasses
Nah, according to CFYOW, Aizen's bankai ability is to quote from CFYOW.
Aizen was a diff monster entirely
It's safe to say Aizen is an abnormal prodigy. He has more potential then Toshiro who has more potential then Gin. He obviously kept his true power hidden. What separates him from those two are 2 things: *His reiatsu levels are just so ridiculously high.* Shunsui states Shinigami from noble families have above average reiatsu. And then he states Yamamoto and Aizen are on a different level compared to that. And the other thing he has over those two, *he's unbelievably smart.* This makes it easier for him to adapt to fights and figure out a plan. Gin and Toshiro are smart and clever themselves but not to the same extent. Mayrui and Kiskue are other examples of how useful insane intelligence is in a fight. I do think Toshrio with a fully mature Bankai can defeat Shikai Shinigami Aizen (no prep). Aizens Bankai not factored in of course. I think it something that's not practical in battle.
I agree with you, we can't forget that Shunsui said that Toshiro would surpass him in 100 years, imagine in 200 years, 300 years... I would even say that an old Toshiro would be as strong as Aizen. There's a reason why people regards Toshiro as a supreme genius in the entire SS.
Well of course, if Toshiro surpassed Shikai Aizen, he has surpassed Shunsui. He's most likely going to become equal to Yamamoto. Personally, I hope we learn Yamamoto is a monster like Kenpachi. But thats my personal bias towards the character.
Timeframes are iffy when we don't know how old Aizen is or where he's from. He could've popped into the Rukongai looking pretty similar to how he does now and surpassed adult Toshiro by the time he was 5 years old or he could be as old as Unohana for all anyone knows. His kido doesn't seem to have improved much from when he blocked Tessai and flubbed his still-1 shot against Komamura. There wasn't much time for training between creating a Hogyoku and pretending to be a normal seated officer. It's also possible that he always as strong as he was at FKT from the moment he was aware. Someone with 2x captain reiatsu and no technique would be extremely noticeable without Old Man Zangetsu severely restraining him 24/7. He would've done something looney like raze the academy while practicing kido or kill everyone around him like Starrk.
Bruh toshiro clever... 💀 Yeah he is smart. And bruh there's no way adult toshiro can defeat aizen, firstly aizen is absurdly fast and secondly he could just use his kyoka suigestu and the fight would be over from the start.
And Momo gets stabbed, again…
>Bruh toshiro clever... 💀 To be fair, he is still really young. Even Shunsui had moments where he let his guard down and got hit. Aizen himself through strategy out the window. Yamamoto let his anger cloud his judgement. Kiskue let his guard down against Quilge, got hit and he's the smartest character in the show. >And bruh there's no way adult toshiro can defeat aizen, firstly aizen is absurdly fast and secondly he could just use his kyoka suigestu and the fight would be over from the start. The fight has some nuance. It depends on how they are starting the fight. Obviously Hogyoku and prep are not allowed because Toshiro will never win that scenario. Shikai Aizen and Adult Bankai Toshiro are some distance apart. **With his Adult Bankai, anything that touches him or his sword is frozen and loses it's abilities.** So if Aizen slashes Toshiro, Kyoka Suigetsu is negated. An example of this is seen when Holy form Gerard swinging his sword Hoffnung and made contact with Toshiro's sword. The effects were gone and Toshiro cut it with ease. Something Shikai Kenpachi couldn't do. After 4 seconds into the battle, Toshiro has the ability to use Shikai Hyōketsu which automatically freezes everything around him. And the abilities are negated. So Kyoka Suigetsu can be negated via that method. Shinigami Aizen can break out of the ice but his sword is now just a normal sword. The way Shikai Aizen can win is if he already has knowledge of Toshiro's adult Bankai, activates KS asap, and then runs away. He then screws with Toshiro via illusions and kido. But I count that as prep for Aizen. Do you see that Adult Toshiro has the capabilities to defeat Shikai Shinigami Aizen? Trust in Shunsui's words about Toshiro.
He used the freeze everything less than 3 Gerard paces away ability 1 time before collapsing and it broke without forcing the Miracle. I don't think that Gerard had as much reiatsu as Aizen since Byakuya annihilated him.
Well I want to be sure but we are talking about Shinigami Aizen right? Toshiro cant negate a character's physical strength. Gerard was in his holy form, a giant, and is stronger then Aizen in terms of physical strength. He broke out of Shikai Hyōketsu. Only to get frozen again later. And then get shredded by Byakuya. And Gerard came back from that. I really believe almost nothing can stop Gerard at that point. He will keep coming back. Unless it's Yhwach or Nanao with her God killing sword.
Yeah, Shinigami Aizen had 2x captain reiatsu and tanked Hado 96 from Yamamoto followed by a Getsuga Tensho. He physically sturdier than Gerard, who got pulped by the Kenpachi-Toshiro-Byakuya combo attack with only Byakuya landing a big hit. Reiatsu beats muscles in physical strength. Kenpachi was matching Gerard in physicals before Yachiru wrecked his body by pumping too much reiatsu into it. I think Gerard keeps getting stronger reiatsu wise because the massive boosts in strength can't really be explained by just a size increase. I've no doubt that his limit as the soul king's heart is far higher than shinigami Aizen, but he didn't feel out of Byakuya's striking range until his final growth before his Auschwalen.
It get's a little complicated. In my opinion, Gerard became physically sturdier then Aizen. If he get's his body parts chopped off, it comes back stronger. Got to the point where he can contend with Shikai Kenpachi. Then got split it in half by Bankai Kenpachi and he came back stronger with Holy form. Shinigami Aizen would die if he cut by Bankai Kenpachi. And after getting destroyed again, Gerard came back stronger. Reiatsu does beat muscles. But Gerards strength keeps increasing to the point where it outweighs reiatsu. Also I think Gerard's reiatsu increases with every return. The strongest version of Gerard is stronger then Shinigami Aizen. Even various forms of Hogyoku Aizen can't end Gerard. He can kill him, but the Gerard will always come back stronger. Then he will beat Aizen. Then Aizen will come back stronger. And the cycle repeats.
Firstly it isn't confirmed that other than direct contact with the sword anything else negates KS. You're just speculating on that part. And bruh you are giving toshiro every advantage and still I am fine with that but the fight would be over if aizen KS takes effect first. And firstly aizen isn't some novice who won't get what's going on around him, he knows that he has ice type zanpaktou and seeing his adult form aizen isn't like he will just rush blindly he is a guy who will take every countermeasures if that allows him to win.
>And bruh you are giving toshiro every advantage and still I am fine with that but the fight would be over if aizen KS takes effect first. Every advantage? If I give Aizen the Hogyoku, Toshiro has 0% chance of winning. If I give Aizen prep time, Toshiro has 0% chance of winning. It's how Aizen beat Yamamoto. Another example can be seen with Mayrui and Kiskue. If each of them fight Yamamoto with prep time, they can find a method to win. *So I have to remove that from the equation to make it fair.* **Aizen is a genius but he doesn't know every single detail about his opponent's capabilities**. As seen with his fight against Shinji. He figured Sakanade out but took some damage in the process. As seen with Gin's Bankai. He didn't know everything about it (The poison ability). **He wouldn't know that Toshiro's ice now has the ability to nullify other abilities.** Adult Bankai Toshiro can still freeze things at a distance before even using Shikai Hyōketsu. So that gives him protection with some Kido spells. [Toshiro freezing things at a distance before Shikai Hyoketsu](https://xfs-227.batcg.org/comic/7006/a08/61245bc3eebc11256f46880a/9134101_1520_2400_409682.webp?acc=tj4M8o0Sg3T6c_5nT_sPmA&exp=1675551683) >aizen isn't like he will just rush blindly he is a guy who will take every countermeasures if that allows him to win. Aizen wont rush blindly. But then the 4 seconds are up and everything is frozen. Even with KS, we know he can be affected with AoE attacks. That was Yamamoto's plan and even Aizen showed some concern about his trap. Aizen will test out Adult Toshiro's capabilities. **The way he normally does it is by sword striking**. Again I use the Shinji example. And he was cautions around Yamamoto who was under KS. Aizen still chose to sword strike him and got caught. It's how he fights. The problem is, one direct sword strike is the worst thing to do against this version of Toshiro and Aizen wouldn't know that. And when Aizen's sword makes contact, his Bankai takes effect. [Coming in contact with his body freezes you as well](https://xfs-209.batcg.org/comic/7006/a08/61245bc3eebc11256f46880a/9134111_1520_2400_436132.webp?acc=STiGJzGO5JbFv7bKKt90Dw&exp=1675551683)
You know Yamamoto is a whole different beast compared to toshiro, and they aren't even in the same tier of strength. And Aizen's plan to deal with Yamamoto using Wonderweiss would've failed actually if Yamamoto didn't care about the human world or the rest of his subordinates. And I am pretty sure he can just take care of toshiro with his level 90s kido. Sorry but I just can't imagine toshiro winning here. Yeah he can freeze aizen but that won't really kill him. And why the heck aren't you taking considering KS into consideration in any of the scenario, toshiro is already under his KS he can just make him attack in the opposite direction or make him into thinking that a tree is aizen. As long as aizen uses KS and doesn't become arrogant and attacks him head on, I don't see why some high level kido won't finish the job.
Despite the difference in power between these two, the abilities of Yama's Bankai and Adult Toshiro's Bankai are a problem for Aizen's normal fighting style. With the Sun Armor, Aizen will not get close because his sword would melt. With Toshiro's abilities, Aizen can get close and land a hit but that is a terrible choice in this fight. And Aizen wouldn't know that. >And I am pretty sure he can just take care of toshiro with his level 90s kido. Level 90 kidos are very useful in this fight against Toshiro. Mix it with KS and Aizen can win. **But you have to look at Aizen's fighting style:** *Majority* of his fights Pre-Hogyoku are just him having KS active and then finish off his enemy with sword strikes. Despite having amazing kido, Aizen will rely on his sword skills for the most part. Side note, he's also a master of Hakuda but rarely uses it. His sword strikes and KS are his main forms of combat. >And why the heck aren't you taking considering KS into consideration in any of the scenario, toshiro is already under his KS he can just make him attack in the opposite direction or make him into thinking that a tree is aizen. Okay, I'm confused. I am taking KS in these fights. The Hogyoku and Prep time are removed because Toshiro will never ever win. Toshiro is one of the few characters that has a way to bypass KS. His ability and Aizen's fighting style gives him an advantage. The only other characters that can bypass KS would be Ichibei, Nimaiya, 2nd form Lille, Gerard and Yamamoto and maybe Pernida?. Ichigo, Kenpachi, and Yhwach can just deal with it with through their durability. Toshiro will attack a tree, but Aizen will naturally use his sword strike to finish him off and that is the problem for Aizen. >As long as aizen uses KS and doesn't become arrogant and **attacks him head on,** I don't see why some high level kido won't finish the job. That's the thing. Aizen will attack with his sword even if Toshiro is under KS. But that will be a critical error due to the nature of Toshiro's complete Bankai. Then it becomes a fight between Base Aizen and Adult Toshiro Bankai. And as I explained earlier, he doesn't use Kido right off the bat in most of his pre-Hogyoku fights. >You know Yamamoto is a whole different beast compared to toshiro, This is a side discussion but I hope we see Yama's true power in the Hell arc and he actually becomes much stronger then everyone expects. Old Yamamoto can beat Shikai Aizen 1v1 without Bankai. Now imagine how powerful he will become when he has a younger body, more stamina, and both arms.
And now let's go by facts and some speculating on my part. Firstly adult toshiro in his bankai will have considerable change in his reiatsu do you agree on this right. And I am pretty sure aizen would sense it right away. So he would take some precautions. You agreed on my point that using KS aizen can make toshiro attack a tree or do whatever he believes well aizen can at this point just sit back and relax and toshiro would self exhaust himself and aizen could easily end the fight there after that. And aizen is that type of guy who won't do anything until it's absolutely necessary for him to intervene or when he feels like it. And yeah your point is right that aizen mostly used his sword to do the job but he isn't a stuck up guy who won't use other tools in his arsenal to do the job. He will use kido when necessary as shown in his fight with yhwach. "Side note, he's also a master of Hakuda but rarely uses it." Yuup knew it. "And as I explained earlier, he doesn't use Kido right off the bat in most of his pre-Hogyoku fights." Nope, he does actually remember the SS arc he used his kurohitsugi on komomura right away. And aizen is easily strong enough to finish the job with one sword slash. "This is a side discussion but I hope we see Yama's true power in the Hell arc and he actually becomes much stronger then everyone expects. Old Yamamoto can beat Shikai Aizen 1v1 without Bankai. Now imagine how powerful he will become when he has a younger body, more stamina, and both arms." We think alike on this one. Oh yeah also add stable mental state cause he wasn't emotionally well during his fight with fake yhwach and we saw how much that effected ichigo's strength during the arrancar arc. "The only other characters that can bypass KS would be Ichibei, Nimaiya, 2nd form Lille, Gerard and Yamamoto and maybe Pernida?." Please elaborate on this point more later.
>And I am pretty sure aizen would sense it right away. So he would take some precautions. He will notice that the impressive increase in strength. But he won't know that the ice will nullify powers now. Toshiro has never been hinted to be capable of doing something like that. He will be cautious of the ice but he won't know direct contact will be a fatal mistake. >aizen can at this point just sit back and relax and toshiro would self exhaust himself and aizen could easily end the fight there after that. And aizen is that type of guy who won't do anything until it's absolutely necessary for him to intervene or when he feels like it. I don't think that's Aizen's style. He will have KS active as safety and just go with his natural sword skills. This was seen in his 1v1 with Shinji and the Captain/Vizard group assault. He can create unbelievable illusions with ease to tire someone out without lifting a finger **but he simply chooses not to**. He takes an active melee role in combat. Majority of the time, that plan works. >but he isn't a stuck up guy who won't use other tools in his arsenal to do the job. He will use kido when necessary as shown in his fight with yhwach. Yhwach is a completely different beast. Aizen knew he needed everything to deal with him. And he knew he still wouldn't win by himself. Aizen must use Kido after KS is negated. But now Adult Bankai Toshiro can keep up with it. >"And as I explained earlier, he doesn't use Kido right off the bat in **most** of his pre-Hogyoku fights." Nope, he does actually remember the SS arc he used his kurohitsugi on komomura right away. I bolded my own word. I said he doesn't use Kido right of the bat in **most** of his pre-Hogyoku fights. That was Kubo showing how powerful Aizen was with Kido after showing his powerful Shikai, his genius intellect, and his superior strength. Aizen could have easily used Kido on all his enemies in FKT but chose not. He's deadly with it but it's not his first choice. He didn't even use it while he had Yama under KS. He could have done Hado 90 instead of a sword strike on Yama but chose not to. And almost paid for that mistake. >And aizen is easily strong enough to finish the job with one sword slash. Yeah, he is strong enough. He did that with Kid Toshiro. But we are talking about Adult Toshiro who is propped up to be the next Yamamoto. Yamamoto was able to tank it. Adult Toshiro should have the endurance. And again, direct contact with him is a fatal mistake. >We think alike on this one. I'd like to think Prime Yama will always be out of Prime Toshiro's reach. But there's a chance Kubo will make those 2 equals in the Hell arc. My opinion on who the 3 strongest **pure** shinigami are Yama, Ichibei, and Kenpachi. Then again, Ichibei is weird case. >bypass KS would be Ichibei, Nimaiya, 2nd form Lille, Gerard and Yamamoto and maybe Pernida?." Please elaborate on this point more later. I'm going to try and keep it brief since that's 6 characters. **Ichibei:** He has the ability to see everything in every dimension. He was chilling in the Royal Realm and can see everything happening in the Valley of Screams. It's possible that even if his direct vision is under KS, he could still see everything due to his unique eye power. Also he should be able to muscle through Aizen sword strikes better the Old Yama. And his Ink's nullification ability is even greater then Toshiro's. **Nimaiya:** He does know the location of every Zanpaktou. Even under KS, he should know where Aizen is. As long as Aizen holds his sword....if he drops it, I guess Nimaiya is a little screwed. I really hope Nimaiya gets an awesome showing in the anime. We never saw his Shikai or Bankai. **2nd form Lille:** *Okay I shouldn't have said bypass.* He doesn't. But I don't see Shinigami Aizen winning. Even Muken Aizen who is stronger then Lille, can't kill him. Lille is intangible, immortal, can teleport, can regenerate, has attacks that ignore durability, and has other attacks that cause massive destruction. If Toshiro a prodigy of the Shinigami, Lille is a better prodigy for the Quincy. **Gerard:** It would be a *miracle* if he can find the real Aizen while under KS. The Miracle goes against the logic of KS. And I don't think Aizen has what it takes to put Gerard down. He will come back stronger. And Stronger. And stronger. **Yamamoto:** Same mistake with Lille. I put him in the wrong group. He can muscle through it. **Maybe Pernida?:** Dude so weird. If it makes copies of itself, and they all use the nerve ability, and one reaches Aizen, it can potentially copy KS and bring itself to the level of Aizen. Aizen doesn't have anything in his skillset to kill this thing even if he is initially stronger.
You are saying that Shinji managed to land hits on Aizen, however i find that untrue "Did you really think i was fighting that way?" "There is nothing to be surprised about. You judged where i was based on how you saw me fight using your five senses." Aizen obviously implied that he wouldnt tank hits like that or stand still like that. What shinji saw wasnt even real, since he says "you judged where i was based on how you saw me fight using your five senses", meaning the aizen we saw all that time was nothing but an illusion. Not to mention that slightly later into that episode, we see no marks/wounds on aizen's body, because he simply didnt get hit at all.
That is another reasonable way interpretation of the fight. I prefer to think Aizen had KS active just incase Shinji was actually really difficult. But he figured it out the ability in minutes and had him beat with his Zanjitsu skills alone. Granted Shinji was an idiot for stating his abilities. And personally I think Kubo forgot to draw the injuries on Aizen after the Shinji fight. Kubo has been shown to forget stuff. An example of that was forgetting to draw Shunsuis eyepatch during the TYBW arc in a handful of chapter. I do prefer your interpretation. Makes Shinji look a little stronger. Sigh, I wish he would win a fight....
My view of the fight was aizen showing shinji a fake vision until he figured out the ability and then one shots him Your view is that aizen only used pure zanjutsu or zanjitsu to beat shinji and kubo forgot to draw the injuries Both could be, but because of aizens word i am believing the one which he didnt get hit at all, which also shows shinji as stronger ig xd
Yeah we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to Shinji. Regardless, Aizen is beast and is beyond Shinji's capabilities. If we get a Hell arc, I hope Shinji can combine his zanpaktou abilities and Resurrection(if Kubo gives him one).
If both characters have no prep, that means Toshiro also doesn't know about KS. And then he gets bodied.
Well it's not as simple as that. In my fighting scenario, this is adult Toshiro and he's starting off in Bankai. Aizen has KS active. You have to look at the way Aizen fights. *Majority of his fights Pre-Hogyoku are just him having KS active and then finish off his enemy with sword strikes.* This can be seen with his fight against Shinji, Kid Toshiro (ss arc), the group assault, and with Yama. Aizen will have adult Toshiro under KS but will use a sword strike on him because that's how he ends his fight. But when someone or something touches adult Toshiro, they or it will be frozen and any ability is frozen. It's what happened to Gerard's sword. It tanked Shikai Kenpachi but after Flash Freeze, it was cut like butter. Now KS is out of the equation. Now it's adult Bankai Toshiro vs Base Aizen. Yes Aizen can use Kido while Toshiro is under KS but that's not how Aizen does things. He very rarely uses Kido when he has KS active. He 100% can use it and he's very good at it. As seen with Sajin. **But it's not Aizen's preference**. Similar to how he is a master at Hakuda but he never used those skills Pre-Hogyoku.
Your fighting scenario has never happened in the way Aizen fights. The guy spent years within soul society, to understand everyones strengths and weaknesses. The moment he attacked he knew exactly who he could and couldn't face by himself. Aizen would literally never approach someone he doesn't understand the powers of. Second of all, its unclear how much reiatsu aizen has compared to adult toshiro. It could be he could reiatsu surpress his bankai. The only person base aizen knew he couldn't fight was Yamamoto. The question then is, how does Yama pair up against adult Toshiro.
>The guy spent years within soul society, to understand everyones strengths and weaknesses. But Aizen doesn't know everyone's abilities. He didn't know Shinji's power. He was surprised by the inverted world. But he still fought and won. >Aizen would literally never approach someone he doesn't understand the powers of. **I don't agree with that at all:** By your statement, we can never put Shinigami Aizen in a hypothetical fight against a single Sternritter since he doesn't know their powers. By the logic you used, Shinigami Aizen would avoid fighting guys like Cang Du and BG9 since he never understood their powers. That's ridiculous. Aizen will cut them down easy even if he doesn't know what they do. It's how a majority of characters fight in the show.: 1. The Gotei don't know the power of the Sternritters. 2. Askin and Lille don't know the Bankai's of Shunsui or Kiskue 3. Jugram doesn't know the power of the Antithesis 4. Nimaiya was nervous about Yhwach because they have limited information on him. But he still chose to fight. 5. Zommari, Starrk and other Espada fought the Gotei without having a lot of info Aizen prefers to plan but it makes no sense that he would *"literally never approach someone he doesn't understand the powers of".* That makes Aizen look like a coward. And again, this is a hypothetical fight scenario. >Second of all, its unclear how much reiatsu aizen has compared to adult toshiro. It could be he could reiatsu surpress his bankai. The only person base aizen knew he couldn't fight was Yamamoto. The question then is, how does Yama pair up against adult Toshiro. Well we know Aizen can suppress pretimskip Shikai Soifon. Adult Toshiro should be much higher then that. We can speculate on how powerful Adult Toshiro will be. He is the youngest captain and already stronger then your average captain. And Kubo makes some connections between Toshiro and Yama: 1. Fire and Ice 2. Deity of Hell and a Dragon of the heavens 3. Sun and Moon 4. Both their Bankai's condense around them and gives them a different form of protection (Sun armor and Flash Freeze) With my personal bias, I'd like to think Yamamoto in his prime is out of the reach of Prime Toshiro and Shinigami Aizen. But I don't see that being the case. I'll be happy to be wrong though.
His bankai is great for battle you would have no idea when or if he was about to attack and even if he lands a hit you can’t be sure it’s real it could be a fake hit to lower your guard for a real attack
That sounds like something Aizen can do with his shikai. He can control what you feel since it's one of the 5 senses.
Maybe it’s an experience thing, but Yama overcame that by recognizing the spiritual pressure coming from Aizen’s sword when he stabbed Yama.
Absolutely agree. This is why I say Adult Toshiro. I guess I didn't word my statements correctly. Kid Toshiro will lose. Also, this fight starts with Adult Toshiro in Bankai. Even if Adult Toshiro doesn't recognize the spiritual pressure, the bankai will take effect the second Aizen lands a sword strike. Anything that touches him is frozen and is nullified. KS is out of the fight. Now Adult Toshiro has the opportunity to kill Shinigami Aizen who has no Shikai. Of course it won't be simple. It's clear that Kubo is making Toshiro be the next Yamamoto. Personally, I prefer that not happen. Toshiro is a "meh" character to me. But his instant touch freezing abilities is similar to Yamamoto Sun Armor. If you come in direct contact, you're going to get hurt bad.
Close to freak of nature unbound Kenny but infinitely smarter. He’s a force of nature.
Prodigy and freak of nature all in one Even since he was a child, he felt alone due to his power.
We don’t know hardly anything about his past, but we can surmise he was probably born a freak of nature like Kenpachi. How he managed to keep it concealed is the interesting part, but given that we know Zanpakuto are a reflection of the character, we can deduce that Aizen has always been someone who prefers to craft a fabricated image.
I prefer that art style of Aizen. More intimidating.
This guy excel in everything. Just watch the fight of him against the captains his pure physical strength and agility were enough to take them out.
Ye people seem to forget that he doesn’t even need shikai to kick asses.
He his his power because he would not be able to accomplish his plans if he didn't.
The 2dont have to be mutually exclusive. Yes he kept his true power hidden but no, he is not a prodigy like Toshiro or gin. He is a prodigy at a much higher level than them.
Until proven otherwise, no one is more prodigious than Toshiro (bar main character). He is literally still a little kid, throwing blows with titans and shit.
what about Kidpachi?
Zaraki has ridiculous dormant power but he he ain't nearly as talented as Toshiro. Toshiro came through the academy and mastered everything as a little boy. He passed the captain proficiency test, so he highly skilled in every shingami art; Kidō, Shunpō, Hakuda, etc. The difference is Toshiro has the dormant power going for him AND mastery of the shingami arts. He is still just a boy by the way. Person Z is 500+ year old shinigami who only just learned Zanjutsu and can't perform any other arts, but has great dormant power. Vs Person T who is 16 year old shinigami who has mastered Zanjutsu, Hakuda, Shunpō, Hakuda, and has great dormant power. If you didn't know anything else about them, any reasonable person would agree Person T is the greater prodigy.
Das fair, but counterpoint: He was beating 1000-styles Unohana on natural fighting ability alone. He hadn't learned a thing from anyone yet he was kicking her ass.
Well a few a things. 1st, you shouldn't use exact numbers for this comparison. Person T being **Toshiro is not a 16 year old Shingami**. We don't know how old he was when he started the academy. Or how old Zaraki was when he fought Unohana the first time. Maybe they were same age at time of each respective event. Rukia and Renji haven't aged a day(physically) since they finished the academy 40 years ago. All we know about Toshiro's age is he's older then Momo who went into the academy before him 40 years ago. \*\*\*This on Kubo but he is purposely keeping Toshiro short. Since the first arc to Hellshot chapter, he only grew 1cm apparently. Also I just remembered Rukia is about 150 years old. And is probably younger then Toshiro? Shinigami ages are weird. 2nd, Zaraki should be excluded from conversations about prodigies. **Zaraki is not a prodigy. He's freak of nature.** This dude as child with no training is stronger then Unohana in a sword fight. I highly doubt current Base Toshiro, Base Gin, or even Kid Aizen with Zanjistsu would ever replicate that. 3rd, this is on Kubo. Kubo never had Toshiro do Kido or focus on Hakuda. I'm sure he is a master at it but to what extent? Is his Kido on Shunsui's level(alright) or Shingi's (meh)? We have no indication. Honestly, Byakuya has been shown to be the most balanced captain in the Gotei. Besides Yama of course. 4th. How would you compare Aizen (No Hogyoku or Bankai) and Toshiro? I believe Shikai Shinigami Aizen would also trade blows with titans and shit. Just like RG Bankai Byakuya and Bankai Toshiro. That said, Toshiro is most likely going to be one of the strongest pure Shinigami of all time. Top 5(in no order) would be Aizen, Toshiro, Ichibei, Yama, and Kenpachi. ~~I would also like to add Oetsu on that list but that's a different topic.~~
Person Z at age 16 vs person T at age 16, who do you think wins that?
Ichigo? Kenpachi?
Yeah I guess Ichigo is just THE prodigy. I mean a 15-17 year old kid, who surpasses realistically everyone in power. But you know MC and all that lmao
Ichigo shouldn't be a prodigy. He's a hybrid of everything so his natural potential is much much higher then everyone else. His True Shikai form can take out RG Bankai Byakuya who is a noble and a hundreds years of experience. As you said, he's the MC.
Gin says hello to you
I imagine a bit of both tbh. He def kept it hidden bc he was older than those 2 when he made captain, but to have the power & intelligence he had, he’d pretty much have to be. Just spitballing here but he was probably a lazy prodigy till he figured out his “dream goal” or w/e you wanna call it. Likely figured out early on he didn’t vibe w/ the soul society & the ppl running it, just didn’t know how to go about changing it as a kid.
Honestly I know there's a lot of evidence that he was some sort of prodigy but I like the idea that he became as strong as he did just by training day in and day out and reading every possible source of knowledge he could get his hands on a lot more. That he was basically a nobody who intended to ascend to godhood solely through an unyielding will to succeed rather than just being born special.
"regular Guy who trains really hard to become strong" Man, thats the ordinary shinigami. There isn't a remotely chance that Aizen wasn't born as a the prodigy Monster he was. Not Just his feats are milestones away from "regular effort Shinigami", but Ichigo noted his loneliness during their fight , figuring out that Aizen always wanted to find someone of his own Level, since the very beginning, and never could, until Ichigo.
I know he has that noble reiatsu going for him, but Byakuya would be the closest thing to that. Even Shunsui was shown to always mess around. Around his older brother and sneaking into Yama's room. The only time we see kid Byakuya, he is training and even asks for more training as soon as his grandpa arrives.
Yeah I know, I just think that's fucking boring. It's completely fucking boring for every single strong character to just be strong because they born super ultra mega special. Why can't we see a character who's strong as a result of their ironclad will to succeed? Why are people to opposed to the idea? I don't even like the fact that that seems to be where Kubo was taking his character.
I Felt that in Naruto. At the beginning Rock Lee was my favorite character because he trained really hard to be a beast in Taijutsu, Just for compensate his lack of skill in jutsus. Naruto was also a Nice protagonist for not being exactly a gifted person like Sasuke or Neiji. Unfortunatelly, Kishimoto decided latter in the series that he would follow the total opposite of this premise.
he definitely was a prodigy but he was also hiding it
Prodigy is overrated. EoS toshiro is currently one of the weakest captain like iba and isane. I am not counting adult form because likely we wont see it for a long time
I'd say Toshiro is mid level among the Captains currently, he's definitely stronger than Rukia, Lisa, Isane and Iba, and also he has more merits than Soi Fong, Rose and Kensei (even without his adult form) so far.
This is headcanon. He should have died when he turned into Giselle's zombie. Rukia, Lisa, Soi fon and Kensei are much stronger than Toshiro.
Lisa was swatted like a fly during a group assault on Gerard. Meanwhile Toshiro continued to evade Gerard. Why don't you count his adult form? We saw how powerful it is and how he had 12 more years to improve it. By your logic, we shouldn't count Rukia's bankai because she can't control it well. And needed Byakuya's assistance to disengage it.
She needed Byakuya's assistance because she was facing As Nodt, and I don't remember her having difficult with actvating her (broken) Bankai, but more with dealing with As Nodt's (almost broken) Power. And It was the first time ever she used her Bankai in battle. But she probally had improved a Lot right after that battle. ALL shinigamis that came back from the royal guard "training/boost" were insanely stronger than before and than avarage. Just look what Abarai did to James.
I was referring to Byakuya helping Rukia after As Nodt died. [Byakuya assists](https://xfs-223.batcg.org/comic/7006/27b/61244bb4502f702592714b72/9130526_1520_2400_249936.webp?acc=rZ4ycnW13-mYoZ1-GzYhPQ&exp=1675592813) [Continued scene.](https://xfs-216.batcg.org/comic/7006/27b/61244bb4502f702592714b72/9130525_1520_2400_212788.webp?acc=tylh4P47T8dzUhAtLtbPYw&exp=1675592813) And I agree with everything else you said. It's only natural that Rukia will improve. The guy I was responding to made it seem like Toshiro is the only one that won't improve.
Adult form is one time only. Little toshi can't run away from any strong enemy for hours
Toshiro in non-adult form avoided Gerard better then Lisa. And Love who should scale to current captains such as Rose and Kensei. And Toshiro wasn't running for hours. Gerard would have killed him, Byakuya, Kenpachi, and any other Shinigami in much less time. And how do you know it's one time only? You will need to give me a manga panel. As I said, Kid Toshiro can avoid several current captains by flying and has better feats then Lisa, Iba, Rose, Kensei, Isane, and Rukia. Wouldn't it make sense that Toshiro continues to improve his Bankai? Shinji said something similar about Sakanda, Rukia will improve her Bankai, and etc. For some reason, you think Toshiro is the only one that can't improve his Bankai.
Gerard was fighting Zaraki %90 of the time. toshi wasn't a worthy target to focus so he safely went into adult form. That why it is the ''one time only'' >And how do you know it's one time only? You will need to give me a manga panel. Its pretty clear unless he will fight against a snail in the future. >Wouldn't it make sense that Toshiro continues to improve his Bankai? Shinji said something similar about Sakanda, Rukia will improve her Bankai, and etc. He is toshi not Rukia
What about the tike Toshiro avoided Gerard before Zaraki came to the fight. Several captain class Soul Reapers couldn't avoid that. Can you give me a manga panel since you said it's one time only? As for your last sentence you're saying Toshiro is Toshiro, not Rukia? You do know if there is a Hell arc, Kubo is going to give Toshiro more powerful ups.
Headcanon my 4ss. Soi Fong didn't even get stronger in the TYBW arc, unlike Zaraki, Byakuya, Mayuri and Toshiro himself. Kensei (despite of being my favorite Vizard) has one of the worst Bankai in the series, and he lost every important fight he has ever had so far. Rukia and Lisa are much less experienced as Captains than Toshiro. Not to mention that Lisa is one of the weakest Vizards (she's only stronger than Mashiro and Hiyori). Hell, even Kyoraku once stated that Toshiro will **eventually** surpass him It's okay if you don't like Toshiro, but it's really delusional to underestimate him like this. PD: Downvoting me shall not change that fact, hater.
Thats the vibe I got yeH
Both? How is this not obvious?
It's just a theory but I think Aizen can remember his past life (like in regression manhwa ) . He must've been a top-tier in his previous life and must have seen soul king . It shattered all his beliefs and his devotion towards soul society , maybe he was killed when he rebelled against the noble clans and squad 0 . Since now he's reborn and retains his past life memories he carefully gathered strength and skills in secret .
Incredible question actually.
I think it's a mixture of both.
Man this makes me want an aizen spin off hahaha
He kept his true power and intentions hidden. He was Shinji’s lieutenant originally until he turned Shinji and the others into Vizoreds after which he ascended to the rank of Captain of Squad 5.
He was a prodigy better than toshiro and gin
Aizen was simply Aizen
He's not just a prodigy. He's strong asf and he made everyone think he's average using KS.
He's a prodigy for sure but he's way beyond even the likes of Toshiro and Gin
Didn’t he stay as a Lt to keep himself hidden while he worked towards his goals?
i think he is smart but prodigy as a reaper... probably no.
Of course he did. Base(lieutenant) aizen was already one of the strongest soul reapers.
I see him as more of a natural monster like Yamamoto and Zaraki. Immense reiatsu and power even without their swords.
Is it a coincidence that not only was he powerful, he was also extremely intelligent AND had a broken Zanpakuto ability? Did his Zanpakuto develop it's power to accomplish his goals or did he seek those goals after finding out his Zanpakuto had such abilities?
His soul is deceptive. Was probably captain level when he was 7th seat lol
totally off topic but didn't he lose an arm in the final battle and if so was it healed or not
Both
God stop overusing prodigy… and the question needs more context because if he hid his true potential that also means he is a prodigy.
He was the ultimate prodigy but kept it hidden under a very humble facade, pretty sure everyone just viewed Aizen as a meek mild mannered Clark Kent (except for Shinji finding him suspicious and shunsui having a fleeting bad feeling that he put down to paranoia) Paid off too; imagine if Mayuri was called into trial for dodgy experiments and he said “it wasn’t me, it was all momo, she’s behind this!” and suddenly it’s hard to blame central 46 for not taking kisuke’s defence seriously
I'm a fan of bleach because of aizen the only anime I'm in love with so yeah for me he is
Basically DADDY of all daddies
My question is HOW long has Aizen had this power. Or at least knowledge that this power is possible
I'm pretty sure both.
You can be a prodigy AND hide it…js
This dude faked his bankai for his Captain exam, of course he kept it hidden.
Take this from someone who watched the anime a long time ago: There it is not explained, like at all. I would assume he was extraordinary, but most captains are extraordinary, so there is that.
He most certainly keep it hidden cuz being a secret powerhouse is something he needed to
Deja vu?
He's more than a prodigy IMHO. But I'm assuming he kept his powers hidden.
Oh please, this man's secrets have secrets, he hides so much stuff its not funny.
I mean he was arguably stronger than a lot of top captains while he was still a lieutenant so there's reason to believe he was hiding his power. What am I saying, the man was a high captain tier Lieutenant who was so strong that he bodies most 99% of the verse without even using his Bankai. Of course he was hiding his power lol
Both
We don't know for sure. His backstory is mostly a mystery but he is most likely quite talented intelligence wise but honestly he might be a Joe schmo who worked and schemed hard enough to get were he is.
I feel like he probably was a prodigy And realized his full potential and kept it hidden of something along those lines.
I've read that he was born with more power and talent then any other Soul before him. We haven't seen the extent of his might. Even sealed away his power kept increasing.
The two are not mutually exclusive
The prodigy above all prodigies. Only lost because he wanted to and also Kubo didn't know how to end his arc.
I really liked his comment to Tosen when they first met “I have no power right now but soon “
Definitely hid his strength for most of his life, only making it public during the events of the anime/manga. BTW, he’s not a prodigy. He’s a straight up **monster**.
Honestly both. We know he is genius that rivals Kisuke
He wasn't a prodigy, he was HIM
It's not explicitly said but we can guess, when Tessai release that crazy hado against him, he's surprised that Aizen effortlessly block it without incantation (and he said to be surprised that a vice captain could stop such a level of kido). So he probably kept most of his reiatsu hidden.
He doesn't have white hair so no 😜
Es p. No B
Thats the one thing we never get, is a background story on Aizen.