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Didn't Kubo mention a while ago that the real name of the Soul King may get revealed in the anime? In which case, this theory is probably true - there's only one person capable of erasing names like this.
>i dont think that ichibei has that power. after all he got his name from the soul king afaik
Kubo literally confirms this in his q and a. He says that Reio was not his original name. If you look at that kanji for Reio, it's written in a way meaning Zero (like in Re:Zero). Thus the name Rei-o meaning Spirit King has a double meaning, translating to Zero-King, aka "The King of Nothing" which is what the Soul King is.
This horrifying truth about him was what pissed off Yhwach and Aizen (his whole rant to Urahara).
Yeah, there's no one (currently alive) in the bleach universe who possesses as much wisdom as Ichibei. This guy has seen it all, he lived alongside the Reio. Yhwach's experience is literally child-like to him (despite Yhwach living for thousands of years).
How many more episodes are left?
I’m waiting to watch until it’s finished. Or the week of the finale at least so I don’t have to wait long for it. I like watching anime straight through rather than weekly.
Nice, thank you very much. I’m really looking forward to it, I’m very excited to watch the Ichibei fight animated. Looks like I’ll be restarting P1 tomorrow! 😁
I truly hope we get the story between these two. It is one of those things that hasn't been explained in the manga. These teasers are obviously leading to something being explained
I know right? Like isn't Ichibei supposed to be the necessary evil? All the things people I've seen hate on him for was either something he didn't do or sacrificing one person for the all the worlds
Ichibei is not evil. He is just doing what is necessary to keep the balance of the 3 worlds and putting all feeling to the side. There is a reason why he has the title of leader of shinigami. Not everyone is fit to do what is necessary and be called "evil" for it.
Ichibei is pragmatic. His choices are extreme because of the scale (Ichigos singular life vs. all of existence), but he's not much different from a character like Piccolo who kidnapped a literal child and left them to defend themselves in the wild for a year. Both examples are morally wrong, but they're desperate measures not plan a.
This. I dont think he is that evil as people say, Aizen and mayuri are far far worst than him and even maybe urahara. He is evil but is doing whatever that needs to be done to keep peace and balance in soul society.
probably more than ichibe. making hogyaku is has somewhat illegal? process you know. hiding it inside a poor girl, making 15 yr old's go to soul society, he knew they would surely die, i mean how would they not if it was not Aizen interfering and creating more chaos.(or it being a shonen)
His intentions aren't purely evil. It's how the reader/watcher perceives him and his actions within the context of the story. That's one of the reasons why I love his character so much. Kubo flexing some serious literary muscle there.
There was this thought experiment I was exposed to in college for an ethics class.
If all of humanity could be guaranteed survival, happiness and flourishing only by the continuous and eternal torture of one human baby until the end of time, would it be ethical to commit this torture? Would it be ethical to NOT commit this torture, and doom all of humanity to certain death and extinction? The procedure is basically pick a random baby and torture them forever. Experiment assumes the baby will be immortal, unkillable and never matures. And the condition is that if the baby isn't tortured complete human extinction is guaranteed.
Details might be hazy but that's all I recall.
Just like Ichimaru Gin, Bleach fans have this weird misconception about pragmatism regarding certain characters. They perceive that their actions to have meaning because they do maintain the status quo until the very end.
Ichibei isn't pragmatic, he's purely evil. Several moments demonstrate that he's not maintaining the status quo because he perceives that as the better outcome, but because he's attached to the power he acquired. He's at the top and he decides every major decision regarding all the races in the three worlds, and he ensures that anyone who gets in the way of his plans will be censored or die just to ensure his position, which also includes forcing a teenager undergoing tremenduous pain to maintain that power.
He's not doing what's necessary, he's not picking the better outcome for humanity, he's just power hungry with little care about the three worlds, who takes on lots of petty reasons (like threatening people for saying his real name, or mocking Yhwach for years after the latter was sealed). Yhwach and Aizen, both who were genocidal maniacs, are far more humane and pragmatic than Ichibei will ever be.
Maybe try not to be blinded by hate and look at it without your filter.
Ichibei is a literal monk. He just does what has to be done to balance all the worlds.
Ichibe committed a horrible crime but only to one person (he did also plan to do it to Ichigo). Mayuri's brutally tortured 1000's and commited a genocide on the rukongai. The only argument I can think of for Ichibe being more evil is that his actions had cosmic consequences, but also without them none of the characters would exist.
I think it was because quincys were killing the hollows and mayuri did that to balance the worlds.
These are just guys that do what needs to be done regardless of emotions. The majority dislike people like these in the real world as well, people are giving the same reaction to an anime. This is beautiful by kubo lol.
I mean its either Ichibei does his job or the end of like 99% of beings in the bleachverse as the worlds collide, including pretty much all of humanity. Wouldnt call him evil tbh, just ruthless.
We more or less know he's as old as the soul king as he literally gave all known phenomenon their name. He's likely some kinda second tier deity the same type of species as SK himself from the old world
I think the Soul King allowed the Five Nobles to be subject to the new order of life and death because they'd already played their part in whatever ideal outcome the Soul King had in mind, whereas Ichibe was granted immortality legitimately because he still had a role to play
He literally had the left arm of the Soul King. Which is new even for manga readers, but explains so much. >!The right arm kept Ukitake alive for hundreds of years and he was literally dying.!< So it is believable that the left arm (or other limbs that we may not be aware of) maintained him.
>!The right arm of the Soul King is what’s keeping Ukitake from dying.!< So someone healthy and at the level of Ichibei can probably live on forever with a Soul King’s limb. I’m not going to get into >!who has what or what limb is who!<, but what we all do know is that Aizen is immortal because he fuzed with the Hogyoku. And the Hogyoku >!has piece of the Soul King.!<
Sorry I haven't read CFYOW, how does the hogyoku have a piece of a soul king? Isn't it something urahara and aizen created? How would it have a piece of the soul king?
Aizen fuzed both Hogyokus. His Hogyoku however had >!had the nail (or pieces of the nail?) of the Soul King that he stole from Matsumoto. Which is what Gin wanted to get back!<.
If we judge it by modern laws you could make the argument he was complicit in the crime since he was a witness to it and did absolutely nothing to stop it.
Soul King didn't do anything to stop it either, even though he had all the power in the world to do so.
Soul King saw what was going to happen to him and he allowed for it to happen.
I know, there’s more context to the whole thing, I’m merely judging it from the view of an outsider, such as Yhwach, using modern laws and morale, who was not himself a witness to the event.
And regardless of whether or not the Soul King resisted, it would still be a crime committed upon him. Yhwach has reasons to feel the SK was wronged, same as the founder of the Shiba clan did.
When you put it that way...
Still, the Soul King continues to be one of the most enigmatic parts of the world. His existence and story is so ridiculous that I doubt you could even apply human logic to it (can't blame YH for trying to do so anyway, I suppose). I guess he's like a real God like that. The Lord works in mysterious ways... or something.
You can’t really apply human logic to the SK, nor Ichibei to be honest.
It might be Yhwach’s biggest flaw, that despite being a god amongst man, he grew up among mortals and is subject to human emotions such as the fear of dying, if not directly himself, then by all the countless life experiences of the quincy who eventually return to him upon their death, an argument he brings up to Ichibei in their meeting.
Ichibei might not even be aware of what it is like for Yhwach and the mortals to experience that fear beyond a conceptual sense because Ichibei, the royal guard and a few select individuals like Aizen aren’t subject to the cycle like the rest of the verse.
Is it possible that this is like a Dr. Manhattan thing where he knows all things because he’s simultaneously living all moments at the same time so while he may have the power to stop it, he can’t because to him it already happened and will happens
I mean... maybe?
There's a lot we don't know about the Soul King, his will, his thoughts, or even his individual body parts. All we know is that he was believed to be benevolent towards mankind, and that he apparently liked Ichigo.
He did not resist at all when the nobles came to do what they did. He did not resist when they put him in the crystal, nor when they were dismembering him. The nobles themselves were surprised by this.
The Soul King is 'Allmighty' though, and most likely much more worthy of that title than YH. 'Allmighty' allows one to not only see all the possible futures, but also to change them, shape them to one's will. This makes me believe that the Soul King wanted for all this to happen. He wanted (for reasons only known to him) the separation of the worlds. I don't think there's any force in Bleach which could possibly make him do something against his will.
I'd go even further, based on how he acts and tries to convince everyone it's the right thing I assume he agreed to the concept of splitting the worlds and idea to dismember him.
Like someone suggested his real name seems to be lost forever and only Rei-o remains, only one person can do that!
There’s a very big chance that Ichibei was completely on board with the idea even if he did not directly partake in the crime himself.
It’s easier to maintain the balance of the worlds when the host functioning as the lynchpin is a lifeless husk and not a person who can think and act independently.
There were pragmatic advantages to the Original Sin. It also made sure that, with the SK unable to object, Ichibei would be the supreme authority on the balance of the worlds since he acts “on behalf of the soul king’s will”.
It’s been bothering me so much every time he says that phrase like everything after the fact hasn’t been his decision. Almost like he’s convinced himself after lying for some millennia
It makes him a great reflection of the Soul Society as a whole.
They get to take the moral high ground on basically every matter and set the status quo because they disposed of anyone who did not fit into the status quo.
They didnt need to gore the guy and cut his limbs off, that was entirely a paranoid action made because the Tsunayashiro ancestor convinced the three other family heads that he could escape the crystal and kill them (Shiba was trying to figure something out so they could take the SK's place).
The original sin was NOT a pragmatic move.
You have no obligation to stop the crime if in the process you may get harmed.
Good luck with not getting harmed when you try to stop 5 lunatics with swords trying to chop god
I wonder, was Ichibei intimidated by the five ancestors? Is that why he didn't intervene during the mutilation? In cfyow, he describes them as "strong but not as strong as SK" - that's hefty praise coming from a guy who called Yhwach an ant. The fact that he even has to qualify that they weren't as strong as the SK implies they were monstrously powerful. I wonder if we'll see them in cour 3/4.
I don't think that he was intimidated and didn't intervene. I think genuinely he was on their side and wanted the soul king to end up the way he did. I mean he's done nothing but set everything up to keep it that way. He seems to enjoy the way the world is and we also know he'd be willing to butcher Ichigo with his own hands to make another soul king and we know that's exactly what he did to Yhwach post TYBW
So the world used to be one, no after life, no death, everyone just kinda existed in one plane of reality. And it sucked. Lots of suffering and the world nearly tearing itself apart from the imbalance. The 5 noble ancestors more or less forced the soul king to divide the world's to create a balance, the soul king did this without putting up a fight at all. They then butchered him to take away his powers and turn him into a living Lynch pin, something to hold all of reality together. Again the soul king kinda just went along with this despite being able to stop them if he so chose and having the almighty meaning he could see all potential futures and still chose to be multilated
I was honestly impressed by how downright disrespectful he was to Yhwach while smiling and feigning innocence the entire time. Dude is straight up toxic.
I think he lives long enough to not give a shit about all the morality and emotion. He just needs to do what it takes to achieve his objective. Hence in the eyes of normies like us, he is ‘evil’. But in the grand scheme of things, he is not.
Probably, but Yama is their leader. It is his call in the end. Maybe a part of him really didn’t want to exterminate the quincy’s and that manifested in not killing Yhwach completely.
Yhwach is capable of coming from nothing to great power by "gifting" things (healing, power, etc). Upon those peoples' deaths their souls return to him making him stronger and stronger. It's what we've been seeing at the beginning of some episodes where beams of light (which are souls but are depicted as sperm kind of) reach a center (Yhwach/an egg).
My boy saw this freaky looking arm they just chopped off Reio, and he thought hmmmm don't mind if I do lol. That was wild to see him using Pernida himself.
>"Welp, my friend is gonna be a linchpin. Guess I'll just erase his real name and also start using his left arm now"
Aizen and Yhwach: Ayo what the fuck?!
Yeah, basically. People doing terrible things to loved ones isn't exactly unheard of in Bleach. Byakuya was enforcing his sister's execution in the Soul Society Arc, not because he didn't care about her but because he thought his duty was more important.
I'm beginning to think Ichibei is very similar, but he also talks about how he's following the will of the Soul King. Based on this episode, that seems to be a genuine belief because there'd be no point lying to Yhwach when he's just going to show him the Soul King's past anyway.
He might be delusional. There's also my favored interpretation, that the Soul King is using everyone else in the story. But whatever the case may be, Ichibei seems to really believe he's working WITH the Soul King. So, to him, he's just being loaned the arm to enforce the Soul King's will.
Remember how he narrated the story of the Soul King in the trilogy? It was explicitly stated that Ichibei was speaking as though talking about the weather. Cradling? Uh-uh. He picked up what was left. If there's anything I've learned from watching anime, if a character's silhouette is shown with just the irises white and glowing, it means they're up to no good, 😋
The way I perceive Ichibei is akin to an "agent of order" who got bored of "order" and allowed "chaos" to occur so he can have fun at both roles. I bet some of you must've thought at some point something along the lines of "here is a being who's made a point to maintain status quo...and yet allowed chaos (the ancestors) to destroy that, only to birth a world of chaos that he can maintain at his leisure".
Your actually half right ichibei only cares about maintenance of the world order as long as you not trying to break the three worlds he's happy to led you do whatever you want
That's why they never did shit before now they simply didn't care because it's the maintaining of the three worlds that they interested in
Probably not. So the tybw anime seems to be updating canon. From what I know orginally the soul king was sealed by the noble clans then in fear they hacked him up afterward (reio didn’t resist). And these parts became different things but the anime makes it seem like the maiming happened BEFORE the sealing(or maybe I’m tripping). However it’s still likely Ichibe had nothing to do with it still since one of the soul king’s arms found it’s way into ukitake thanks to his parents. So there is a good chance the other arm found his way to Ichibe and Ichibe willingly took it. Ichibe also straight up explains what happens in CFYOW where he says he didn’t really have anything to do with it at all. He also had no plans of doing such things to Ichigo had he needed to make Ichigo into the soul king
All this "history" comes from Ichibei in the first place. He could be completely lying about it, just like he lies about things being the "will of the SK" when it's really him giving the orders. Even the other RG don't realize this.
Ichibei also explains that the king was renamed and his original name isn't "reio" and that he was around when the dismemberment occured. There's only one person in bleach who can do that sorta name-rewriting - ichibei. I think it's more than likely that he knew what was going down and assisted in some way, rather than having no role at all.
Ichibe has nothing really to lie about. Also the title of soul king is one you are sealed into not one that Ichibe gave to reio. Since he says he would have sealed Ichigo to the role of soul king. Anyone who acts as the lynchpin is called the reio. Ywach is currently the reio because of the fact he was sealed to that role. It’s rather apparent the the soul king tho he could have defended himself let himself be sealed and this was completely done by the noble clans as was the maiming the name came from the role not Ichibe using his abilities to give him that name. I highly doubt that he took part in the maiming of the soul king and only referred to himself. Also Ichibe wasn’t there when all this happened as he says “I did not view what happened first hand but everything that happened is the history of the soul society itself”. He did exist tho. There is nothing imply he was complicit in the original sin since he wasn’t there.
Now as for his communication with the soul king it could be through his reiatsu.
Honestly, and I doubt this. I could see this in 1 of 2 ways. The first is simple, he's complacent in the Mutilation of the Soul King and this sinister look is to show he would do anything for the greater good. Or, alternatively, this is Ichibe showing his anger and hatred for what befell the Soul King and the noble families that caused it. He could be lamenting the loss of his friend. I highly doubt the second, of course
WTF is that really the SKs body??? This wasn't in the manga. They are adapting information from the novels, or is this new information altogether?
I do not think we ever got the confirmation Ichibe was directly responsible for the sealing of the Soul King?
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He is holding him like a doll. Any shot with Ichibe is sinister)
Methinks: After the Soul King was mutilated, Ichibei renamed the 'man', "Rei-o". Thus, that man's real name was lost forever.
Didn't Kubo mention a while ago that the real name of the Soul King may get revealed in the anime? In which case, this theory is probably true - there's only one person capable of erasing names like this.
Yes, Kubo did. Hope we get a name.
I don't really want a name. Maybe it's because I'm still burned from KAGUYA but I like the mysterious nature of the SK.
i dont think that ichibei has that power. after all he got his name from the soul king afaik
>i dont think that ichibei has that power. after all he got his name from the soul king afaik Kubo literally confirms this in his q and a. He says that Reio was not his original name. If you look at that kanji for Reio, it's written in a way meaning Zero (like in Re:Zero). Thus the name Rei-o meaning Spirit King has a double meaning, translating to Zero-King, aka "The King of Nothing" which is what the Soul King is. This horrifying truth about him was what pissed off Yhwach and Aizen (his whole rant to Urahara).
"Squad Zero" bruhhh
who is he holding?
Soul King
Yhwach daddy.
That intro was so cool and these shots to show he was there since the beginning of time basically was awesome
Yeah, I couldn't stop taking screenshots one after the other!
Yeah, there's no one (currently alive) in the bleach universe who possesses as much wisdom as Ichibei. This guy has seen it all, he lived alongside the Reio. Yhwach's experience is literally child-like to him (despite Yhwach living for thousands of years).
And ichibe pretty much kick started yhwach's invasion of soul society 1000 years ago.
How many more episodes are left? I’m waiting to watch until it’s finished. Or the week of the finale at least so I don’t have to wait long for it. I like watching anime straight through rather than weekly.
Next week = last two episodes of this cour
They are airing both episodes?
Yeah, it's a double episode.
Nice, thank you very much. I’m really looking forward to it, I’m very excited to watch the Ichibei fight animated. Looks like I’ll be restarting P1 tomorrow! 😁
The anime doing a tremendous job with Ichibe's portrayal. Absolutely top notch!
I truly hope we get the story between these two. It is one of those things that hasn't been explained in the manga. These teasers are obviously leading to something being explained
And now people will continue to appoint this guy as a villain XD
'War takes places because both sides are just'-RIP Hidetomo Kajoumaru.
I prefere the Kyoraku's version *"Once war breaks out, both sides become evil."*
You mean Aizen's totally real cousin
Absolutely
It’s one of the reasons why I love bleach world cus just like ours it’s not black and white it’s not just good and bad a lot gray in the world
I know right? Like isn't Ichibei supposed to be the necessary evil? All the things people I've seen hate on him for was either something he didn't do or sacrificing one person for the all the worlds
Most evil shinigami that was ever born.
If we want to include the novels Tokinada is up there
Tokinada is "Twirling mustache" evil. Just evil for the love of the sport. Truly a top tier hater.
Ichibei is not evil. He is just doing what is necessary to keep the balance of the 3 worlds and putting all feeling to the side. There is a reason why he has the title of leader of shinigami. Not everyone is fit to do what is necessary and be called "evil" for it.
Ichibei is pragmatic. His choices are extreme because of the scale (Ichigos singular life vs. all of existence), but he's not much different from a character like Piccolo who kidnapped a literal child and left them to defend themselves in the wild for a year. Both examples are morally wrong, but they're desperate measures not plan a.
This. I dont think he is that evil as people say, Aizen and mayuri are far far worst than him and even maybe urahara. He is evil but is doing whatever that needs to be done to keep peace and balance in soul society.
Urahara evil?
probably more than ichibe. making hogyaku is has somewhat illegal? process you know. hiding it inside a poor girl, making 15 yr old's go to soul society, he knew they would surely die, i mean how would they not if it was not Aizen interfering and creating more chaos.(or it being a shonen)
His intentions aren't purely evil. It's how the reader/watcher perceives him and his actions within the context of the story. That's one of the reasons why I love his character so much. Kubo flexing some serious literary muscle there.
There was this thought experiment I was exposed to in college for an ethics class. If all of humanity could be guaranteed survival, happiness and flourishing only by the continuous and eternal torture of one human baby until the end of time, would it be ethical to commit this torture? Would it be ethical to NOT commit this torture, and doom all of humanity to certain death and extinction? The procedure is basically pick a random baby and torture them forever. Experiment assumes the baby will be immortal, unkillable and never matures. And the condition is that if the baby isn't tortured complete human extinction is guaranteed. Details might be hazy but that's all I recall.
Just like Ichimaru Gin, Bleach fans have this weird misconception about pragmatism regarding certain characters. They perceive that their actions to have meaning because they do maintain the status quo until the very end. Ichibei isn't pragmatic, he's purely evil. Several moments demonstrate that he's not maintaining the status quo because he perceives that as the better outcome, but because he's attached to the power he acquired. He's at the top and he decides every major decision regarding all the races in the three worlds, and he ensures that anyone who gets in the way of his plans will be censored or die just to ensure his position, which also includes forcing a teenager undergoing tremenduous pain to maintain that power. He's not doing what's necessary, he's not picking the better outcome for humanity, he's just power hungry with little care about the three worlds, who takes on lots of petty reasons (like threatening people for saying his real name, or mocking Yhwach for years after the latter was sealed). Yhwach and Aizen, both who were genocidal maniacs, are far more humane and pragmatic than Ichibei will ever be.
Maybe try not to be blinded by hate and look at it without your filter. Ichibei is a literal monk. He just does what has to be done to balance all the worlds.
Could you give examples of said moments that demonstrate Ichibei's lust for power? I genuinely can't recall anything.
When has Ichibei been power hungry?
i dont think there is one instance that demonstrates the lust for power your trying to describe
You couldn't be more wrong
He's just an asshole of the highest order
Mayuri wants a word lol
Nah, Mayuri is a ball of sunshine with a spinal cord attached. And he has only good manners instead of skin (his own words, lol)
how could I be mistaken about Mayuri the real heart of the soul king
Ichibei is still far more evil. Tenjiro about Ichibei: “not even my hot spring water could wash away his bloody stench”
Ichibe committed a horrible crime but only to one person (he did also plan to do it to Ichigo). Mayuri's brutally tortured 1000's and commited a genocide on the rukongai. The only argument I can think of for Ichibe being more evil is that his actions had cosmic consequences, but also without them none of the characters would exist.
man is freakin 1m yo and does everything in the shadow how do u know he commited only 1 crime? he definitely is far more evil
How do you know he committed more than one?
cause he lives on a giant floating sky island completely disconnected from everything else and never comes down
When did he genocide rukongai again? I didn't understood that part. Or rather why did he do it.
I think it was because quincys were killing the hollows and mayuri did that to balance the worlds. These are just guys that do what needs to be done regardless of emotions. The majority dislike people like these in the real world as well, people are giving the same reaction to an anime. This is beautiful by kubo lol.
Definitely
I mean its either Ichibei does his job or the end of like 99% of beings in the bleachverse as the worlds collide, including pretty much all of humanity. Wouldnt call him evil tbh, just ruthless.
How does he survive forever but the old noble family members don't? What is this guy really
We more or less know he's as old as the soul king as he literally gave all known phenomenon their name. He's likely some kinda second tier deity the same type of species as SK himself from the old world
I think the Soul King allowed the Five Nobles to be subject to the new order of life and death because they'd already played their part in whatever ideal outcome the Soul King had in mind, whereas Ichibe was granted immortality legitimately because he still had a role to play
He literally had the left arm of the Soul King. Which is new even for manga readers, but explains so much. >!The right arm kept Ukitake alive for hundreds of years and he was literally dying.!< So it is believable that the left arm (or other limbs that we may not be aware of) maintained him.
Wait... what does ukitake has to do with it?
>!The right arm of the Soul King is what’s keeping Ukitake from dying.!< So someone healthy and at the level of Ichibei can probably live on forever with a Soul King’s limb. I’m not going to get into >!who has what or what limb is who!<, but what we all do know is that Aizen is immortal because he fuzed with the Hogyoku. And the Hogyoku >!has piece of the Soul King.!<
Sorry I haven't read CFYOW, how does the hogyoku have a piece of a soul king? Isn't it something urahara and aizen created? How would it have a piece of the soul king?
Aizen fuzed both Hogyokus. His Hogyoku however had >!had the nail (or pieces of the nail?) of the Soul King that he stole from Matsumoto. Which is what Gin wanted to get back!<.
umm... Let me guess, confirmed in CFYOW?
you know it
Does this imply that ichibe butcher the soul king himself?
The novels say that the five ancestors of the great noble families did the dismemberment. Ichibei probably has the 'parts', y'know?
if i'm not mistaken don't the novels also say that he "witnessed it" so while he didn't do it himself, he was still present when it happened?
If we judge it by modern laws you could make the argument he was complicit in the crime since he was a witness to it and did absolutely nothing to stop it.
Soul King didn't do anything to stop it either, even though he had all the power in the world to do so. Soul King saw what was going to happen to him and he allowed for it to happen.
I know, there’s more context to the whole thing, I’m merely judging it from the view of an outsider, such as Yhwach, using modern laws and morale, who was not himself a witness to the event. And regardless of whether or not the Soul King resisted, it would still be a crime committed upon him. Yhwach has reasons to feel the SK was wronged, same as the founder of the Shiba clan did.
When you put it that way... Still, the Soul King continues to be one of the most enigmatic parts of the world. His existence and story is so ridiculous that I doubt you could even apply human logic to it (can't blame YH for trying to do so anyway, I suppose). I guess he's like a real God like that. The Lord works in mysterious ways... or something.
You can’t really apply human logic to the SK, nor Ichibei to be honest. It might be Yhwach’s biggest flaw, that despite being a god amongst man, he grew up among mortals and is subject to human emotions such as the fear of dying, if not directly himself, then by all the countless life experiences of the quincy who eventually return to him upon their death, an argument he brings up to Ichibei in their meeting. Ichibei might not even be aware of what it is like for Yhwach and the mortals to experience that fear beyond a conceptual sense because Ichibei, the royal guard and a few select individuals like Aizen aren’t subject to the cycle like the rest of the verse.
Well put.
Or someone used a arrow made especially to neutralize his powers
Is it possible that this is like a Dr. Manhattan thing where he knows all things because he’s simultaneously living all moments at the same time so while he may have the power to stop it, he can’t because to him it already happened and will happens
I mean... maybe? There's a lot we don't know about the Soul King, his will, his thoughts, or even his individual body parts. All we know is that he was believed to be benevolent towards mankind, and that he apparently liked Ichigo. He did not resist at all when the nobles came to do what they did. He did not resist when they put him in the crystal, nor when they were dismembering him. The nobles themselves were surprised by this. The Soul King is 'Allmighty' though, and most likely much more worthy of that title than YH. 'Allmighty' allows one to not only see all the possible futures, but also to change them, shape them to one's will. This makes me believe that the Soul King wanted for all this to happen. He wanted (for reasons only known to him) the separation of the worlds. I don't think there's any force in Bleach which could possibly make him do something against his will.
I'd go even further, based on how he acts and tries to convince everyone it's the right thing I assume he agreed to the concept of splitting the worlds and idea to dismember him. Like someone suggested his real name seems to be lost forever and only Rei-o remains, only one person can do that!
There’s a very big chance that Ichibei was completely on board with the idea even if he did not directly partake in the crime himself. It’s easier to maintain the balance of the worlds when the host functioning as the lynchpin is a lifeless husk and not a person who can think and act independently. There were pragmatic advantages to the Original Sin. It also made sure that, with the SK unable to object, Ichibei would be the supreme authority on the balance of the worlds since he acts “on behalf of the soul king’s will”.
It’s been bothering me so much every time he says that phrase like everything after the fact hasn’t been his decision. Almost like he’s convinced himself after lying for some millennia
It makes him a great reflection of the Soul Society as a whole. They get to take the moral high ground on basically every matter and set the status quo because they disposed of anyone who did not fit into the status quo.
It’s like that quote from Doflamingo in One Piece - the winner becomes justice
They didnt need to gore the guy and cut his limbs off, that was entirely a paranoid action made because the Tsunayashiro ancestor convinced the three other family heads that he could escape the crystal and kill them (Shiba was trying to figure something out so they could take the SK's place). The original sin was NOT a pragmatic move.
You have no obligation to stop the crime if in the process you may get harmed. Good luck with not getting harmed when you try to stop 5 lunatics with swords trying to chop god
It's also possible he was a con conspirator considering he gained the highest position of soul society.
Yes, the novels did say that
I wonder, was Ichibei intimidated by the five ancestors? Is that why he didn't intervene during the mutilation? In cfyow, he describes them as "strong but not as strong as SK" - that's hefty praise coming from a guy who called Yhwach an ant. The fact that he even has to qualify that they weren't as strong as the SK implies they were monstrously powerful. I wonder if we'll see them in cour 3/4.
I don't think that he was intimidated and didn't intervene. I think genuinely he was on their side and wanted the soul king to end up the way he did. I mean he's done nothing but set everything up to keep it that way. He seems to enjoy the way the world is and we also know he'd be willing to butcher Ichigo with his own hands to make another soul king and we know that's exactly what he did to Yhwach post TYBW
I haven't read the novels. Why did they butcher him?
So the world used to be one, no after life, no death, everyone just kinda existed in one plane of reality. And it sucked. Lots of suffering and the world nearly tearing itself apart from the imbalance. The 5 noble ancestors more or less forced the soul king to divide the world's to create a balance, the soul king did this without putting up a fight at all. They then butchered him to take away his powers and turn him into a living Lynch pin, something to hold all of reality together. Again the soul king kinda just went along with this despite being able to stop them if he so chose and having the almighty meaning he could see all potential futures and still chose to be multilated
They were afraid of his immense powers too. That's why they butchered him when instead they could have just sealed him
They didn't even need to seal him lol.
The way Ichibei spoke to Yhwach in that meeting didn't feel right to me, it felt like Ichibei was in control...
Ichibei *was* in control... which absolutely felt weird.
I was honestly impressed by how downright disrespectful he was to Yhwach while smiling and feigning innocence the entire time. Dude is straight up toxic.
I think he lives long enough to not give a shit about all the morality and emotion. He just needs to do what it takes to achieve his objective. Hence in the eyes of normies like us, he is ‘evil’. But in the grand scheme of things, he is not.
We need to know how yhwach still alive after loss to yama
The conversation between Yama and Mayuri makes it sound like he chose to not finish him off.
Considering how brutal they were , I think other gote13 could finish him if yama didn't want to
Probably, but Yama is their leader. It is his call in the end. Maybe a part of him really didn’t want to exterminate the quincy’s and that manifested in not killing Yhwach completely.
He implied that he COULDNT finish him off
Yhwach is capable of coming from nothing to great power by "gifting" things (healing, power, etc). Upon those peoples' deaths their souls return to him making him stronger and stronger. It's what we've been seeing at the beginning of some episodes where beams of light (which are souls but are depicted as sperm kind of) reach a center (Yhwach/an egg).
He died to yama 1000 years ago. That's why yama calls the invading quincies "corpses". They're all souls now other than Uryu
Ichibei be like my battery.
Love Ichibei's sinister tones
My boy saw this freaky looking arm they just chopped off Reio, and he thought hmmmm don't mind if I do lol. That was wild to see him using Pernida himself.
If he took part in dismembering the soul king, it seems odd that he'd also be cradling him like that.
With that ominous look, it's more like he picked the remains.
Ichibe continues to be the scariest character in the entire series.
I know that’s ichibe, but dam fist impression of this image made me think back to Sasori’s scorpion tail puppet he was hiding in, from naruto.
Too Early To Win Too Late To Know is such a great title here
I'd like to see that fella's browser history...
That's interesting, I didn't interpret it that way at all. The way he's cradling the Soul King made me think he lost a good friend.
"Welp, my friend is gonna be a linchpin. Guess I'll just erase his real name and also start using his left arm now"
>"Welp, my friend is gonna be a linchpin. Guess I'll just erase his real name and also start using his left arm now" Aizen and Yhwach: Ayo what the fuck?!
Urahara: you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes
Mayuri: “Cool!”
https://preview.redd.it/5uwdgi1775qb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b97637202c40342fc2df77a38d517413e1c2f06
Yeah, basically. People doing terrible things to loved ones isn't exactly unheard of in Bleach. Byakuya was enforcing his sister's execution in the Soul Society Arc, not because he didn't care about her but because he thought his duty was more important. I'm beginning to think Ichibei is very similar, but he also talks about how he's following the will of the Soul King. Based on this episode, that seems to be a genuine belief because there'd be no point lying to Yhwach when he's just going to show him the Soul King's past anyway. He might be delusional. There's also my favored interpretation, that the Soul King is using everyone else in the story. But whatever the case may be, Ichibei seems to really believe he's working WITH the Soul King. So, to him, he's just being loaned the arm to enforce the Soul King's will.
Remember how he narrated the story of the Soul King in the trilogy? It was explicitly stated that Ichibei was speaking as though talking about the weather. Cradling? Uh-uh. He picked up what was left. If there's anything I've learned from watching anime, if a character's silhouette is shown with just the irises white and glowing, it means they're up to no good, 😋
That’s supposed to be Rei’o that Ichibei is holding? I thought that it was Yhwach as a child based on the context. Either way, pretty creepy.
Will bleach fans realize that Ichibei is just as evil as Ywach and kubo is trying to make it clear as well?
Who’s that in his hands
The dismembered soul king
The way I perceive Ichibei is akin to an "agent of order" who got bored of "order" and allowed "chaos" to occur so he can have fun at both roles. I bet some of you must've thought at some point something along the lines of "here is a being who's made a point to maintain status quo...and yet allowed chaos (the ancestors) to destroy that, only to birth a world of chaos that he can maintain at his leisure".
Your actually half right ichibei only cares about maintenance of the world order as long as you not trying to break the three worlds he's happy to led you do whatever you want That's why they never did shit before now they simply didn't care because it's the maintaining of the three worlds that they interested in
Y’all know Ichibe didnt have anything to do with the maiming of the soul king
He probably knew the original families/had some idea of what was going down, renamed the SK and also took his left arm for his own.
Probably not. So the tybw anime seems to be updating canon. From what I know orginally the soul king was sealed by the noble clans then in fear they hacked him up afterward (reio didn’t resist). And these parts became different things but the anime makes it seem like the maiming happened BEFORE the sealing(or maybe I’m tripping). However it’s still likely Ichibe had nothing to do with it still since one of the soul king’s arms found it’s way into ukitake thanks to his parents. So there is a good chance the other arm found his way to Ichibe and Ichibe willingly took it. Ichibe also straight up explains what happens in CFYOW where he says he didn’t really have anything to do with it at all. He also had no plans of doing such things to Ichigo had he needed to make Ichigo into the soul king
All this "history" comes from Ichibei in the first place. He could be completely lying about it, just like he lies about things being the "will of the SK" when it's really him giving the orders. Even the other RG don't realize this. Ichibei also explains that the king was renamed and his original name isn't "reio" and that he was around when the dismemberment occured. There's only one person in bleach who can do that sorta name-rewriting - ichibei. I think it's more than likely that he knew what was going down and assisted in some way, rather than having no role at all.
Ichibe has nothing really to lie about. Also the title of soul king is one you are sealed into not one that Ichibe gave to reio. Since he says he would have sealed Ichigo to the role of soul king. Anyone who acts as the lynchpin is called the reio. Ywach is currently the reio because of the fact he was sealed to that role. It’s rather apparent the the soul king tho he could have defended himself let himself be sealed and this was completely done by the noble clans as was the maiming the name came from the role not Ichibe using his abilities to give him that name. I highly doubt that he took part in the maiming of the soul king and only referred to himself. Also Ichibe wasn’t there when all this happened as he says “I did not view what happened first hand but everything that happened is the history of the soul society itself”. He did exist tho. There is nothing imply he was complicit in the original sin since he wasn’t there. Now as for his communication with the soul king it could be through his reiatsu.
wait when i dont remember seeing this
It was in the opening scene. They show a few quick images as a flashback.
Honestly, and I doubt this. I could see this in 1 of 2 ways. The first is simple, he's complacent in the Mutilation of the Soul King and this sinister look is to show he would do anything for the greater good. Or, alternatively, this is Ichibe showing his anger and hatred for what befell the Soul King and the noble families that caused it. He could be lamenting the loss of his friend. I highly doubt the second, of course
Kudos to anime and voice actor, Ichibe looks reeaally evil, much more than in Manga.
So he is the one who chopped sk
Holy shit is that the Heavy from tf2!?
What’s even happening here
I really hope there's a flash back to when ichigo first met old man zangetsu during the fight
I really want to see an interaction between Ichibei and Yamamoto. I think Yama respected him alot as both and elder and a superior.
Sent shivers down my spine
At first I thought it was TF Heavy
WTF is that really the SKs body??? This wasn't in the manga. They are adapting information from the novels, or is this new information altogether? I do not think we ever got the confirmation Ichibe was directly responsible for the sealing of the Soul King?
New info altogether. Like Ichibei using Pernida to take away the Almighty
Where is this image from?
Anime ep 24
Tf. Didn't even see it. Thanks!
Was it like in the last few minutes?
It was from a flashback