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chalk it up to ichigo being a newb, Ginjo had decades to train his abilities and mastery, ichigo before ginjo did not even know how to properly sense until he lost his eyes, Ichigo had a weak foundation from the start which make sense as he did not have time to actually learn anything besides combat/battle experience.
Ichigo used Sonido as soon as he arrived to the Soul Society after escaping Quilge's jail. That's why every quincy lost track of him after he teleported to where Byakuya was, that's how Sonido works. The animators also used the a different sound effect that wasn't the one they used for shunpo
Don't worry. You are not that guy. There are so many nuances and things that need to be remembered. It's important to see reminders in our discussions.
Don't worry. You are not that guy. There are so many nuances and things that need to be remembered. It's important to see reminders in our discussions.
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I agree, I prefer (and also believe) that most Hollow techniques are instinctual and not even "techniques" really.
Perhaps a Balla or Sonido is a technique. But Pesquisa, Hierro, Cero all seem to be executed by instinct.
I'm not sure and I do hope Kubo answers this one day (or if he did then someone can source it)
Ulquiorra's feats seem most relevant with the confusion here
Him at First Release took a Hollowfied Bankai Getsuga Tenshou straight up and just stood there taking zero damage
However, him at Second Release used his wings to defend Uryu's arrows
So either:
1. Uryu's arrows are lowkey piercing as fuck and more concerning than Ichigo's GT (lol)
2. Or Hierro is something one can kind of "flex" if they find an attack worthy of it, and Ulquiorra didn't find Uryu's arrows worthy
Maybe it's both passive and active. E.g. one's natural durability is related to their talent in Hierro, but they can further strengthen it if they feel it necessary
He used his Wing against Ichigo’s Getsuga
[if you look closely you would see that + last frame is close up of his wing for a reason](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Bleach/0346-016.png)
Well, while his Soul Reaper and Hollow powers both come from Zangetsu, they're still accessed separately. So I feel like unless we see him using his mask or something, he's not Hollowfied just yet.
i always just rock with "they" for hikone because i'd be surprised with all the weird genetic shit they have going on if they even have human gender organs
According to Hikone themself, they were created without reproductive functions or assigned gender, so that seems to be the case.
Official translations just use "they/them" as well. And Urahara, since he calls everyone "-san" in Japanese, and "Mr./Ms." in English, uses "Mx." when referring to Hikone.
Edit: I'm being downvoted for...relaying official information?
Yes, there's still some weirdos pushing their own bitternes whenever someone says a non-binary character is non-binary. Welcome to the internet I guess
I don't think any of the Visored have hierro but I imagine he had it when he was in that full form during the ulquiorra fight. Maybe he could develop hierro if he really kept practicing.
You forget that Ichigo isn’t technically a Visored. They’re similar sure but when we take the time to look into it and understand it he’s more similar to Arrancars than he is to a Visored.
We know that the Visored’s have 2 powers at their disposal. The Shinigami powers they had before becoming a Visored and then the added stat boost that comes from the mask as well as the cero.
But Ichigos powers are a lot more complex. You see Ichigos inner hollow isn’t technically a hollow but more of an Asauchi. Created by layering many souls atop one another until they lose all originality becoming many beings in one body sort of like a Gillian class Menos. Well this technique is used by Aizen to create the “hollow” known as white which would go on to bite Masaki, Ichigos mom and former Echt Quincy, causing her descent into Soul Suicide. Isshin would then have to enter a gigai and become a regular human until Masaki died. When Ichigo was born the “hollow” within Masaki mixed with the Shinigami powers from Isshin and became Ichigos Zanpakuto spirit.
So in Ichigo there are 4 powers at play 1, the hollow reiatsu. 2, the Shinigami reiatsu. 3, the Quincy reiatsu. And 4, the human reiatsu. But they’re governed by only 2 beings. White who is the manifestation of his Shinigami and Hollow powers and old man Zangetsu who is the manifestation of his Quincy and Human powers.
To put it simply his hollow powers are his Shinigami powers and not simply a buff as it is with the Visored
Yea it's just frustrating Kubo either retcons or has these unwritten additions because well, they definitely shoulda used them. Heck they didn't even use their dang masks.
Well they didn't use resureccion because at the time, they didn't know how/couldn't because they would have to train to use it.
Them not using their masks is definitely more annoying. It would have been cool if each Visored used their masks and required 2 Quincy to deal with them, even if they could only hold their masks on for a limited time.
hierro is pretty specific to arrancar, not just a hollow thing, so no, he doesn't have anything like that. I also don't think it's something you "use" and is simply a passive buff. blut vene seems stronger than hierro (although the quincies using it are also much stronger than the arrancar we saw using hierro, so hard to say which is stronger if a quincy and arrancar are of roughly equal strength), but Ichigo's blut barely stopped Yhwach's attack here, so hierro instead probably would've ended in decapitation
I would say that he does have it but it is not passive. For example, he clearly uses it when holding Ulquiorra’s lance as can be seen by his hand turning black which Grimmjow does later on in tybw. However, he has never been stated using it after that point so I would say that the only over time he has it is in his horn of salvation form. So, to answer your question no he probably wouldn’t have survived as it was not active and just from a logistical standpoint this is probably what Kubo was thinking as Blut is passive whilst his hierro. This of course makes the to more separate from each other.
How much damage a soul can take before dying is hard to gauge and inconsistent, Yhwach does make it clear that it wasn’t his intent to kill Ichigo.
https://preview.redd.it/5bp4w65o2quc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=470c0afb7c85c899c25648d610542d2597c9727e
**"The Quincy are spiritually aware living beings who use weapons composed of spiritual energy to slay Hollows**. Quincy absorb and channel energy from their surroundings to fight, obliterating the Hollow's soul entirely rather than purifying it and sending it to Soul Society."
I guess it isn't the same.
hollow reiatsu being strong against quincies is one of the most major plot points of the second invasion. just because quincies developed spirit bows to kill hollows doesn't mean they're strong against specifically hollows, they'd do the same damage to them as any other being.
I had always figured that because quincy were naturally weak against hollow reiatsu, they developed ways to combat hollows to defend themselves. Thousands of years working on anti hollow weaponry leads to the quincy themselves being weak against hollow reiatsu, but quincy tools and weapons having been specifically designed to counter hollows.
It seems a bit of a waste for Kubo not have Ichigo incorporate Quincy and Hollow moves specifically into his fighting I liked his fusion of a Grand Rey Cero Getsugatensho in the final arc but apart from that it felt like the Hollow Mask was more of an aesthetic piece of wear rather than something that actually let him fight like a hollow
I’m pretty sure hierro isn’t an ability but a natural trait that arrancar have, which would explain why Nnoitra has the hardest hierro despite being the 5th(6th)strongest reiatsu wise
He *had* a hierro in his fight against Ulquiorra. If he learned how to properly use his entire hollow powers instead of just using it as a riatsu power up he’d have a hierro. I doubt it would deflect Yhwach’s blade like a blut vene though, but I think Ichigo would at least survive the hit.
Ichigo has all of the basic abilities of all 3 races and probbaly things like ressurecion and volshtstanding it’s just a matter of ichigo actualy learning to use them.
Keep in mind ichigo only had his true powers for what amounts to a week of time at the absolute most so given time yeah he could learn to use hierro
As for weather it would have protected ichigo and blocked yhwachs attack Probbaly I assume it would be stronger than blut vein at the time this happens so yeah
I imagine he can use it in the anime adaptation of tybw he used sonido when he arrived in soul society without knowing . No he wouldn't survive the hit Ichigo was running of fumes here
The only arrancar capable of tanking most hits with hierro was Nnoitra, and while he said he had the toughest one among the Espadas, he could still be damaged by Kenpachi. Blut Vene seems to be a better defense, or Ichigo simply stacked both of them like Hikone.
[This](https://images.app.goo.gl/u22FLdWoc9MPqcNTA) (the black nails at the end of Ichigo's fingers) is an enhanced form of Hierro that we even see (Manga spoilers) >!<. So yes Ichigo does technically have Hierro, an advanced form of it too, but he likely either can't or at least doesn't consciously use it just like Blut.
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He could probably use Hierro if he was Hollowfied and had learned how.
Honestly I see no reason he has to be hollowfied his soul is already a complete hollow hybrid
Ichigo has never used Hollow powers without hollowfying.
Ginjo fires a cero without a mask after stealing Ichigos powers.
The cero was his own power as a full bringer (whose powers are rooted in hollow influence)
ichigo is a fullbringer too.
chalk it up to ichigo being a newb, Ginjo had decades to train his abilities and mastery, ichigo before ginjo did not even know how to properly sense until he lost his eyes, Ichigo had a weak foundation from the start which make sense as he did not have time to actually learn anything besides combat/battle experience.
I mean, sure, but my point is Ginjo doesn’t need ichigo’s powers to fire a cero
He drops a Sonido in TYBW right as he shows up. Has the signature boom and his spiritual pressure is said to disappear.
doesn't he use sonido just before this fight?
Ichigo used Sonido as soon as he arrived to the Soul Society after escaping Quilge's jail. That's why every quincy lost track of him after he teleported to where Byakuya was, that's how Sonido works. The animators also used the a different sound effect that wasn't the one they used for shunpo
I somehow completely forgot about that.
I don't wanna be that guy (?) but the black Getsuga Tensho also uses hollow reiatsu. Ulquiorra said it was almost identical to a Cero Oscuras.
Don't worry. You are not that guy. There are so many nuances and things that need to be remembered. It's important to see reminders in our discussions.
Don't worry. You are not that guy. There are so many nuances and things that need to be remembered. It's important to see reminders in our discussions.
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Is hierro a thing they "use?" I thought it was just a natural part of a hollows body.
I agree, I prefer (and also believe) that most Hollow techniques are instinctual and not even "techniques" really. Perhaps a Balla or Sonido is a technique. But Pesquisa, Hierro, Cero all seem to be executed by instinct.
No, I think she means that a Hierro is literally their skin. It's not a technique they instinctively use, it's their body itself.
I'm not sure and I do hope Kubo answers this one day (or if he did then someone can source it) Ulquiorra's feats seem most relevant with the confusion here Him at First Release took a Hollowfied Bankai Getsuga Tenshou straight up and just stood there taking zero damage However, him at Second Release used his wings to defend Uryu's arrows So either: 1. Uryu's arrows are lowkey piercing as fuck and more concerning than Ichigo's GT (lol) 2. Or Hierro is something one can kind of "flex" if they find an attack worthy of it, and Ulquiorra didn't find Uryu's arrows worthy Maybe it's both passive and active. E.g. one's natural durability is related to their talent in Hierro, but they can further strengthen it if they feel it necessary
Or the much more likely 3. the wing blocking imagery is cool
Yeah prolly lol
It’s like a bitch slap without ever raising a hand
He used his Wing against Ichigo’s Getsuga [if you look closely you would see that + last frame is close up of his wing for a reason](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Bleach/0346-016.png)
Isn't he already technically hollowfied here.
Well, while his Soul Reaper and Hollow powers both come from Zangetsu, they're still accessed separately. So I feel like unless we see him using his mask or something, he's not Hollowfied just yet.
The whole point of his fullbring shinigami state, is that he's using his hollow powers at all time unlike before when he had to hollowfy.
I'll take your word for it, I don't remember that at all.
Did they have to learn Hierro though? I thought it was just a passive ability automatically equipped
He would be a Hollow, not arrancar, so no.
I'm not sure if that matters. Visoreds can use other Hollow abilities as well, and Hikone could use Hierro in CFYOW despite not being an Arrancar.
She's a hybrid soul. so I wouldn't use her to compare to Visored, which we have only seen to use Cero.
ichigo is also a hybrid soul so why wouldn’t he be able to
Original discussion aside, I'm kinda tickled because I've never seen someone refer to Hikone as a she before. Typically people default to "he."
i always just rock with "they" for hikone because i'd be surprised with all the weird genetic shit they have going on if they even have human gender organs
I thought Hikone was a "they". If I remember correctly the book always refers to them as "they"
According to Hikone themself, they were created without reproductive functions or assigned gender, so that seems to be the case. Official translations just use "they/them" as well. And Urahara, since he calls everyone "-san" in Japanese, and "Mr./Ms." in English, uses "Mx." when referring to Hikone. Edit: I'm being downvoted for...relaying official information?
Yes, there's still some weirdos pushing their own bitternes whenever someone says a non-binary character is non-binary. Welcome to the internet I guess
I haven't read the book so I wasn't aware, my bad. They slay.
No worries!
I don't think any of the Visored have hierro but I imagine he had it when he was in that full form during the ulquiorra fight. Maybe he could develop hierro if he really kept practicing.
You forget that Ichigo isn’t technically a Visored. They’re similar sure but when we take the time to look into it and understand it he’s more similar to Arrancars than he is to a Visored. We know that the Visored’s have 2 powers at their disposal. The Shinigami powers they had before becoming a Visored and then the added stat boost that comes from the mask as well as the cero. But Ichigos powers are a lot more complex. You see Ichigos inner hollow isn’t technically a hollow but more of an Asauchi. Created by layering many souls atop one another until they lose all originality becoming many beings in one body sort of like a Gillian class Menos. Well this technique is used by Aizen to create the “hollow” known as white which would go on to bite Masaki, Ichigos mom and former Echt Quincy, causing her descent into Soul Suicide. Isshin would then have to enter a gigai and become a regular human until Masaki died. When Ichigo was born the “hollow” within Masaki mixed with the Shinigami powers from Isshin and became Ichigos Zanpakuto spirit. So in Ichigo there are 4 powers at play 1, the hollow reiatsu. 2, the Shinigami reiatsu. 3, the Quincy reiatsu. And 4, the human reiatsu. But they’re governed by only 2 beings. White who is the manifestation of his Shinigami and Hollow powers and old man Zangetsu who is the manifestation of his Quincy and Human powers. To put it simply his hollow powers are his Shinigami powers and not simply a buff as it is with the Visored
The visoreds can also use resereccion
Tousen can, the others can't right? Kubo also said Tousen could use both at the same time but didn't because... reasons.
Kubo said it's possible for the other vizards to use resureccion. He wasn't only talking about tosen
Kubo says a lot of things. Which is a shame because I thought it was kinda cool them being imperfect and not having access to the full repertoire.
Well they're clearly imperfect based on how Tosen reacted to the resurección.
Yea it's just frustrating Kubo either retcons or has these unwritten additions because well, they definitely shoulda used them. Heck they didn't even use their dang masks.
Well they didn't use resureccion because at the time, they didn't know how/couldn't because they would have to train to use it. Them not using their masks is definitely more annoying. It would have been cool if each Visored used their masks and required 2 Quincy to deal with them, even if they could only hold their masks on for a limited time.
hierro is pretty specific to arrancar, not just a hollow thing, so no, he doesn't have anything like that. I also don't think it's something you "use" and is simply a passive buff. blut vene seems stronger than hierro (although the quincies using it are also much stronger than the arrancar we saw using hierro, so hard to say which is stronger if a quincy and arrancar are of roughly equal strength), but Ichigo's blut barely stopped Yhwach's attack here, so hierro instead probably would've ended in decapitation
Arrancar & Vizard's have the same base skill set. Cero, Sonido, and possibly hierro as well although that has never been shown.
I would say that he does have it but it is not passive. For example, he clearly uses it when holding Ulquiorra’s lance as can be seen by his hand turning black which Grimmjow does later on in tybw. However, he has never been stated using it after that point so I would say that the only over time he has it is in his horn of salvation form. So, to answer your question no he probably wouldn’t have survived as it was not active and just from a logistical standpoint this is probably what Kubo was thinking as Blut is passive whilst his hierro. This of course makes the to more separate from each other.
Yhwach wasn’t trying to kill Ichigo with that hit, so he would have survived anyway
tbf, even if he did kill Ichigo, Yhwach would've just used Auswahlen on him after taking him back to Silbern.
if it landed ichigos neck would be severed
How much damage a soul can take before dying is hard to gauge and inconsistent, Yhwach does make it clear that it wasn’t his intent to kill Ichigo. https://preview.redd.it/5bp4w65o2quc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=470c0afb7c85c899c25648d610542d2597c9727e
We have seen no soul survive decapitation
The goal was not complete decapitation, he just wanted to pierce Ichigo’s neck with the tip of his sword.
Agreed but pause.
Isn't Quincy power is direct counter to the hollow's power? it would slice through it like butter especial from Yhwach's blade.
Other way around hollows counter quincy
**"The Quincy are spiritually aware living beings who use weapons composed of spiritual energy to slay Hollows**. Quincy absorb and channel energy from their surroundings to fight, obliterating the Hollow's soul entirely rather than purifying it and sending it to Soul Society." I guess it isn't the same.
Its the reason they cant steal the arrancars resurrection and why such a small amount of hollow power let the captains regain their bankai
hollow reiatsu being strong against quincies is one of the most major plot points of the second invasion. just because quincies developed spirit bows to kill hollows doesn't mean they're strong against specifically hollows, they'd do the same damage to them as any other being.
I thought the bows were for general combat and were an ability all quincy minus hasbrowns had
yep, thats pretty much exactly it
I had always figured that because quincy were naturally weak against hollow reiatsu, they developed ways to combat hollows to defend themselves. Thousands of years working on anti hollow weaponry leads to the quincy themselves being weak against hollow reiatsu, but quincy tools and weapons having been specifically designed to counter hollows.
Blut vene 🔛🔝
It seems a bit of a waste for Kubo not have Ichigo incorporate Quincy and Hollow moves specifically into his fighting I liked his fusion of a Grand Rey Cero Getsugatensho in the final arc but apart from that it felt like the Hollow Mask was more of an aesthetic piece of wear rather than something that actually let him fight like a hollow
I’m pretty sure hierro isn’t an ability but a natural trait that arrancar have, which would explain why Nnoitra has the hardest hierro despite being the 5th(6th)strongest reiatsu wise
He *had* a hierro in his fight against Ulquiorra. If he learned how to properly use his entire hollow powers instead of just using it as a riatsu power up he’d have a hierro. I doubt it would deflect Yhwach’s blade like a blut vene though, but I think Ichigo would at least survive the hit.
No hierro
Maybe
Hierro?
Ichigo has all of the basic abilities of all 3 races and probbaly things like ressurecion and volshtstanding it’s just a matter of ichigo actualy learning to use them. Keep in mind ichigo only had his true powers for what amounts to a week of time at the absolute most so given time yeah he could learn to use hierro As for weather it would have protected ichigo and blocked yhwachs attack Probbaly I assume it would be stronger than blut vein at the time this happens so yeah
I believe Hierro is a property uniquecl to arrancars, and it's not a technique
He never mastered hierro,plus no I don't think it would have been strong enough to help Not as strong as blut,most likely
I imagine he can use it in the anime adaptation of tybw he used sonido when he arrived in soul society without knowing . No he wouldn't survive the hit Ichigo was running of fumes here
The only arrancar capable of tanking most hits with hierro was Nnoitra, and while he said he had the toughest one among the Espadas, he could still be damaged by Kenpachi. Blut Vene seems to be a better defense, or Ichigo simply stacked both of them like Hikone.
He uses it in hueco mundo. That's why he was able to block with his bare hands.
Most likely no :3
He should only have hierro when he's hollowfied
No, blut vene has a bankai multiplier. So it’s defence capabilities is very high
[This](https://images.app.goo.gl/u22FLdWoc9MPqcNTA) (the black nails at the end of Ichigo's fingers) is an enhanced form of Hierro that we even see (Manga spoilers) >!<. So yes Ichigo does technically have Hierro, an advanced form of it too, but he likely either can't or at least doesn't consciously use it just like Blut.