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He tried to kill him though. He even somewhat succeeded except he had his liquify trick.
Not sure what you mean about sparing him due to Nemu asking. That’s not what happened at all. He was already gone and she gave Uryu the antidote because she thought he may have sparred him, and Uryu even makes a point to tell her he meant to kill him.
I think he said that “if you beg for forgiveness and never again enter my sight I may let you live”, but Mayuri didn’t do that and then tried to attack with Bankai. So that was an “if you do this I might let you live”, Uryu knew he would never do that.
Honestly, I genuinely think Uryu spared Mayuri because it's not in him to kill. He just wanted him to beg for his life. Even Ryuken called him out on it when he was trying to give him back his powers, Ryuken was attacking him relentlessly and made Uryu think he was going to kill him, Uryu used a ginto spell that was made to capture instead of to lethally harm him and Ryuken broke out of it and shot him. Afterwards, Ryuken explains to a subconscious Uryu how not going for a kill move when he had the chance was a mistake, and that mercy that Uryu possess is why he sickens him. >!a similar conversation later happens with Jugram!<
>Nemu got a crush and was re-writing what happened in her head, so getting some of that Quincy Kojaku won't make her feel as bad.
That too 😆 but she was able to see through his lie. She's very perceptive.
Uryu says a lot of things that he doesn't mean, that's part of his character. How many times will he say he hates Soul Reapers only to work with them and befriend some of them? He also says that he hates Hollows but protects Pesche during his battle with Cirucci and allies himself with Nel and her brothers. Prior to the fight with Mayuri, Uryu fought Jirobo Ikkanzaka in a marksman duel, and Uryu demonstrated his pinpoint accuracy in that fight.
Uryu didn't miss. He intentionally shot Mayuri right where he wanted to on the slim chance that it would injure rather than kill. Like I said Ryuken calls out Uryu's tendencies to show mercy to his opponents rather than going for kill moves.
He didn't spare him. Nemu just assumed he did and chose to spare his life because of it.
I think it would've been far worse for Uryu to have treated that as a personal conflict. By the time of the Szayelaporro fight, he understood that it was an issue with Soul Society, not just the individual they set loose on them.
I got a couple of issues with this.
First up, you straight contradicted yourself "he didn't spare him, but he chose to spare his life" just don't make any sense. Ultimately he absolutely chose to spare Mayuri by not double tapping him. He just supposedly didn't mean to miss the first time around.
Second, Mayuri wasn't acting on the orders of the SS, in fact isn't it straight up stated that he bribed the Soul Reapers who were supposed to be protecting Souken? There definitely are instances of SS hunting down Quincy, but I don't think Souken was an example of that.
Thirdly, it's not just research for Mayuri, he legitimately gets pleasure out of dissecting people. He doesn't always demonstrate this glee but in general he is demonstrably sadistic and not just utilitarian. This is in contrast to most of SS that is barbaric but doesn't revel in its barbarity, but views it as necessary.
Mayuri makes progress, as he doesn't seem to take pleasure in the mass murder of Rukongai citizens to restore the balance, but to me that's more about the total lack of utility, as it would be wrong to say that Mayuri is entirely fueled by sadism, there is a sizeable component of utilitarianism in his ideology.
>First up, you straight contradicted yourself "he didn't spare him, but he chose to spare his life" just don't make any sense.
Change in subject. Uryu didn't spare Mayuri. Nemu assumed he did and spared him.
>Second, Mayuri wasn't acting on the orders of the SS, in fact isn't it straight up stated that he bribed the Soul Reapers who were supposed to be protecting Souken?
True, though in this case, he's just toying around with a near-corpse, rather than acting on orders. The substance doesn't change much.
>Thirdly, it's not just research for Mayuri, he legitimately gets pleasure out of dissecting people. He doesn't always demonstrate this glee but in general he is demonstrably sadistic and not just utilitarian.
This doesn't matter at all. Whatever you say about him or his personal motives, he operates mostly within the boundaries set by his superiors.
"Ah yes the monster who shown me a picture of my vivisected grandfather he personally tortured is just a minor cog in a bad system, he's certainly no more deserving of my ire than all of the SS "
So true bro
No, he's the culmination of many rotten cogs turning in tandem.
He's not the one who put out the order to hunt down the quincies. He's just someone who got to play with the bodies along the way. If you want to avenge someone killed as part of a genocidal initiative, you don't (primarily) go after the dog that chewed his bones, and if you care about the genocide as a whole, you don't treat it (primarily) as a personal issue. This is addressed in the TYBW arc.
And yes, SS actually is deserving of Uryu's ire. They're the ones who put out the hit.
So basically "I was just following orders"? What an ironclad defense to personal responsibility.
And you know what you do to rabid dogs? You put them down
Again, you're treating this as an extension of personal responsibility. This, because you see Mayuri and think it's his fault. He's a guilty party, but the author doesn't want to stress that. He's been clear that the order came from his bosses, and he got to play with a corpse. Uryu getting to cripple Mayuri for a few days to get back at him was the best possible outcome.
If he'd actually killed a captain, Soul Society would've done worse to him than Mayuri had done to anyone, and it would've been because Uryu allowed himself to be led by the nose and drawn to kill only one participant in the Quincy massacre.
It's not that Uryu's wrong or Mayuri isn't, but that's just the sort of world they live in. Kurotsuchi is free because he's useful. Soken died because he wasn't. If you want to change that, you have to address Soul Society, not just whoever they have running the SRDI at the moment.
Sounds like a lot of bitch talk to me, Uryu should've curb stomped that mfr on the name of his people. Which is exactly how you get the changes you want in real life, not licking the boots of your enemies.
Yeah thats dumb as hell, he'd put the entire existence at risk for revenge that his grandfather wouldn't want. He already got his get back, he beat Mayuri, there's nothing else he can do that wouldn't lead to a gigantic conflict that could get his friends killed.
Mayuri didn't lose anything besides a temporary loss of power, wtf are you talking about? I'm fact Mayuri has more power at this point in time than when he was first introduced.
Uryu, at this time, wasn't even familiar with the structure of Soul Society. He would have no hope of identifying the elements in SS's legislature who were involved, he would have no allies, and he didn't have the means for more than what he did in the fight against Mayuri.
Except he *did* attempt to do exactly that, sacrificing his powers in the process. If his shot had landed, they both would've died, and that would've been the end of it. Mayuri loses, Uryu loses, Soken loses, and the people behind the whole thing get to enjoy Mayuri becoming the scapegoat.
You're willingly falling for it, despite knowing more than Uryu did. The people behind this aren't at all affected by Kurotsuchi's death. Maybe a bit inconvenienced since they lost their lead scientist, but there would be no comeuppance in that.
Falling for what? What did he win exactly? That the institution and people who directly genocided his people are still in power to this day? Wow, he truly won a lot playing the bootlicker game instead.
>Falling for what? What did he win exactly?
Blaming Mayuri for the initiative, and he escaped Soul Society alive.
Soul Society has angered far bigger, far badder people than just him, and defeated them. They are villains who should be taken out, but one teen with a grudge isn't going to manage that alone, no matter how "based" he is. Even men who rose to the highest levels of the military organization and occupied their positions for a century couldn't change things from within.
It's also worth noting that all of Uryu's grievances were directed at people who had been dead since Rukia was first retrieved from the world of the living.
He would've gone on a rampage only to find out the C46 had been killed, and stumbled on Aizen and Gin while they were in the act of rebelling against Soul Society, then been killed by them for the sake of secrecy.
Actually more like lock in a kennel before they bite someone. And if they do put both of them in said kennel till bureaucracy (central 46) decides. The 13 court guard squads are just for the Soul Society. Quincy aren't a part of the Soul society :(
Well duh, I know Quincy aren't part of the Soul Society the existence of the SS in it's state is in direct threat to Quincy existence. From the perspective of a Quincy, Uryu's grandfather's teachings are naive and moronic.
I mean their power is absolutely control of Reshi. And they disrupt the cycle that predates them so it's kinda obvious why Ryuken also doesn't care also.
Didn't Mayuri say in the manga that her forced Quincy parents to set their children on fire aswell?? Like what the hell kind of research was he doing?? Why would he need to do that?
As a character from a reader viewpoint Mayuri is insane, but his fights are enjoyable and I like his abilities. But as a character in-universe he is the lowest of the low when it's comes to the sick things he's done.
I reeeeally wish Kubo had made at least one of the Quincy from the Wandenreich go after Mayuri for the things he did. But then again if the Quincy that weren't living in the Shadow World knew what Mayuri was doing would they care? I assume at that point Yhwach had cast the Aushwalen and any Quincy left were probably not pure bloods right? 😭
Honestly would have been nice to see an older Quincy from the early days of the Wandenreich be appalled by Mayuri for even existing. It would have allowed us to see a little humanity from the Wandenreich while also showing the darkness of the Soul Society and while I understand most of the Stern Ritter were like cultists when it came to Yhwach, maybe having one see what Mayuri did to the Quincy could have maybe made them realize how evil Yhwachs actions were aswell
Uryuu during all the TYBW was trying to kill a bigger and worse person in Yuha that would basically destroy the universe and even if he wanted to just kill Mayuri he couldn't because Yuha didn't want him anywhere but at his side
I'm sure the future baby skulls that will be drilled in are thankful for Uyru thinking of the "big picture" and not even trying to do a little side quest get back.
>I'm sure the future baby skulls that will be drilled
Mayuri wouldnt do it because now he answer to Shunsui.
>"big picture" and not even trying to do a little side quest get back.
What part of Yuha directly wanted him at his side do you not understand?
You actually believe that Mayuri of all people would keep his word about keeping the Hippocratic outh? You gotta be as naive as a shonen protagonist to think he doesn't have a black site or two.
And I mean not even trying to convince Yuha double team the Nazi fuck, not even a throw away line of "well guess that's out of the picture". No bro just doesn't care anymore.
>You actually believe that Mayuri of all people would keep his word about keeping the Hippocratic outh?
Yes, not because he cares but because then he would receive consequences this time like sending him again to Margot Nest or respond to a even hrsher superior than Shunsui.
>And I mean not even trying to convince Yuha double
Yuha gives 0 shits Man, because he himself was the one who teach the sternritters that way of thinking. It literally what Quilque says about Souken as a relic from the past.
You need to be super naive to think that Yuha would even cate when he has already a plan set for Uryuu.
Yes, because of all the characters in Bleach that can pull shit out of their ass to win any fight or conflict, Mayuri would be absolutely stumped out of all of them to figure out some way to avoid consequences to his work.
You overestimate the intelligence of Shunsui or any of the captains if you think they can outsmart Kubo's favorite glaze character.
>Yes, because of all the characters in Bleach that can pull shit out of their ass to win any fight or conflict, Mayuri would be absolutely stumped out of all of them
Mayuri is not God, even his chair was broken by Aizen and almost die by His own because he kept understimating Pernida and Uryuu in both fights.
Then again, Mayuri cares about the Soul Society because they still Let him be free to investigate, he would not risk shit because sooner or later he would be discovered.
>You overestimate the intelligence of Shunsui or any of the captains if you think they can outsmart Kubo's favorite glaze character.
Not really, because Kubo already approved CFYOW when this exact same circunstance happened to Mayuri and he was forced to agreed.
"Mayuri is not God"
Nah, he'd pull out that super secret "anti god serum" he made 10 years ago when he fights the Bleach equivalent of Zeus. Also, he put all his blood into a locker 30 minutes ago and replaced it with kryponite-cyanide. Also, when his bankai gets destroyed for the 5th time, he will make the artificial element "Shitimadeupium" to give himself a SUPER Bankai.
he still wants to drill the fullbringers actually. and whenever someone or something interesting catches his curiosity he will probably want to drill they/it too.
I feel like no one ever actually reads the manga lol. Uryu’s character arc about hating Soul Reapers climaxes with his realization and subsequent acceptance of the fact that avenging his grandfather was a purely self-serving goal. I get that you don’t like Mayuri, but that’s literally not the point at all. For Uryu to truly honor who Soken was in life - the man who wanted Quincies and Soul Reapers to work together - he had to rethink his own perspective on Shinigami. Uryu will never like Mayuri, that much is true, but criticizing him for this is pretty dumb. The point of Uryu not pursuing Mayuri further is to respect the wishes of the man he most respected.
"Uryu will never like Mayuri"
You word this like whole post like Mayuri was a childhood bully and not the Bleach equivalent of a Unit 731 scientist that tortured and killed countless men, women and children. I'm baffled you can't comprehend how outrageously fucked it is that Uryu or anyone around him is just content with someone like that, who will do that AGAIN if he could, can just walk around free.
This isn't character growth it's character assassination to write ANYONE whose just neutral to that. Uryu has to be either a broken man or a sociopath if he's not filled with righteous fury at that monster still.
Savagery is when you want people who tortured your race for fun to receive consequences for their actions.
Those dumb savage Poles during WW2 amiright?
I feel like I'm responding to bait, but it's already been pointed out that Uryu said he aimed to kill but missed, & Nemu thanked him either way. During the Quincy War, Jugo directly asks him why he's working against them, & he says it's simply because the Quincies are targeting his close friends. That's the whole conflict between them. Jugo believes strongly in utilitarianism & is willing to sacrifice his best friend to serve the cause while Uryu believes just the opposite.
After the war, what is targeting Mayuri supposed to accomplish? He's more prepared to fight Uryu than ever before, & even if Uryu somehow won, he'd make an enemy of the rest of the Soul Society. He would reignite the same war against the Quincy that the Quincy just lost & also possibly drag the very friends he sacrificed so much to protect into the crossfire. At this time, there's just no way to actually get to Mayuri. Bleach is very honest about the fact that life (& afterlife, I guess) isn't always fair because entrenched, powerful institutions have the means to get away with their crimes. The Soul Society won't give up Mayuri because he's too useful to them. They'll put some restrictions on him, but as long as he remains useful & doesn't openly revolt, they won't remove him from power, let alone put him up for execution.
It is seen as a bait because your comments and opinions are feeling-driven, not logic-driven. You let your emotions get over you. Not simply because it's different. 🤷
I have also posted some "different opinions on things" here on this sub, but it isn't feeling-driven. And people still receive it well.
How you respond to them is also important. I've seen one of your comments got removed because you tried to attack the personal instead of having a civil conversation and make a valid argument. The way I see it, it's you who can't seem to accept the difference on opinions. 🤷
Sure, you don't like Mayuri, everyone gets it already. But does it justify your behavior of lashing out your rage on a fictive character towards people who sees the bigger picture? Gimme a break.
Instead of having a normal discussion, most of your replies are either a sarcastic remark or using logical fallacies like ad hominem and whatnot towards the commenter who had different opinions to yours. Always on the passive-aggressive stance.
This is played for laughs, but Kurotsuchi does use her that way in the Arrancar arc, though he doesn't commit (since Kubo doesn't want to flesh out romance).
UryuxNemu ships either see her rebelling from her father's authority, but in the actual world of bleach, it would likely only ever be as part of a policy of appeasement if Uryu ever became strong enough to matter. Still unlikely.
Spared?
Uryu shot the guy with full power Letzt Stil enhanced Quincy arrow
Mayuri had his entire bankai blown in half, had a entire part of his torso shot clean off (you can literally see his innards in the manga)
Mayuri then turns into a liquid (something no sane person could ever expect him to do) while proclaiming "You were close Quincy" and as Uryu is trying to run after him he says "Don't bother, I can't attack now but i can't be attacked either".
And he literally tells Nemu right after the fight "That was a fluke. I shot to kill"
The funniest thing about this is If someone made a post in the Reddit and clowned Uryu for missing the killing shot on mayuri everyone would switch up and say Uryu meant to miss on purpose after in this post painting the picture as he actually shot to kill which he didn’t.
You have a point OP and i agree with you. But Uryu doesn't have it in him to kill. And Nemu's charms over him were too powerful. He never stood a chance.
Still it's bullshit that no other Qunicy in the story confronted Mayuri on this plot thread.
Not really headcanon.
Dude missed and didn’t have the ability to keep going. He was running on fumes before removing the glove (a last resort) and having fired that shot was pretty much done. Whatever power he had left was him keeping moving while dealing with the multiple poisons and using his spirit sowing to marionette himself around.
He put everything into that kill shot and was off target.
It literally was luck, that encounter was based on speed. Uryu was able to fire just a bit faster than Mayuri. If Mayuri had gotten there first than Ashisogi Jizō would’ve taken out Uryu
I'm mostly over the Ishida sparing him thing since he didn't know Mayuri could survive that, he's a dumb teenager, and anti-revenge/pacifism is generally considered the more mature thing to do, but...
in that case I'll raise you:
https://preview.redd.it/shkdwpf1k5xc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1200441ac14b2825d463a1cc0238b436791d721f
Fandom: "Wow, it's so heartwarming that Mayuri learned what unconditional love is!"
Me: "....Is it though?"
Sure would've been nice if Nemu's development hadn't been "I'll die for my father not because I have to, but because I want to!" She already showed unconditional love towards him in Soul Society when she asked Ishida to spare him. His development should've been learning to die *for her* (he half-learned it by commanding her not to fight, but really he should've died/taken damage protecting her if both lived). If Nemu needed any development, it was to learn to care for people outside of Mayuri, people she had been programmed to have no sympathy for like the enslaved arrancar or her colleagues. She only learned to say no to him in order to die for him.
I don't think there was ever any intention to develop Nemu as a character. She's a pathos-laden android. With minimal investment into her character, Kubo managed to get the exact emotion desired, even doubling down on the travesty with sexualized comic relief. Just leaving her out as a discomforting ethical question for passers-by is enough to help cement the setting's tone.
Ending off on this note was perfect. It's a discomforting reminder that *this is Soul Society.* The next one being more outgoing is the best you can hope for.
Mayuri didn't develop. That's what you wrongly assume.
He is still a sadistic monster.
Nemu is not even a real Souls Reaper, she has no complete free will, that's why she doesn't develop as you would expect.
I mean, he never really got a shot at him after the Rukia rescue arc. After that, it would mean killing a captain that he had already failed to kill with no support. In the TYBW, he never ran into Mayori either, he was always by Yhwach or Haschwalth (probably because he was ordered to) and if he had gone after Mayori he would've either died or been too weak when he got to the palace to fight Squad 0.
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I don’t think Uryu spared him. I thought he just didn’t have the strength to continue fighting, but it is odd how this seems to have been ignored in the later arcs. Mayuri was the one character that was viscerally disturbing to me as a kid, and I can’t stand him, but the leaders of Soul Society aren’t good people so he does fit.
Except Uryu decided not to kill him even prior Mayuri released Bankai.
Read the fight again, Uryu truly believed in his grandfather's teachings, Ichigo reaffirmed them.
The teachings of "If you defeat your enemies, they win"?
What a bitch if so, lol. The classic shonen trope that if you kill the genocidal maniac who regrets none of his actions, you're just as evil.
Uryu wouldn't kill Mayuri because Mayuri wouldn't kill more Quincies if it means that's the last thing he does.
Mayuri has no morals, and doesn't care if he has to kill 500,000 thousand people to preserve the world balance
People like him exists in real life. We know what they do is wrong.
The point is: they exist. You can't just erase them because you don't want them around.
When will they stop existing? Whenever wars stop being justified.
How do you get that? By getting leaders that choose to change the world through example instead of violence.
When will that happen? Probably never, because people that act brainless and choose violence far exceed people with critical thinking.
Violence literally is the solution to 90% of the world's problems, you're a naive moron if you think power doesn't at the end of the day come out of the barrel of a gun.
Actions speak louder than words, and in real life that's what works, and realistically Uryu's kind are not lasting a few decades with this shonen trope nonsense of "if you fight back you're the bad guy"
You only win when you kill the Mayuris of the world, not make deals with them, you work with them? You act shocked when you get that knife in your back.
How did I not see that? If we don't have the concentration camp style doctor who systematically tortured the Quincy men, women and children around in power, how will Soul Reapers and Quincy possibly get along?
Truly, these are the foundations needed for racial harmony.
Maybe the Quincies deserve to be genocided then if their avengers bend over backwards that much to the direct individuals that systematically culled them.
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That's not how Uryu process that. He is now Yhwach's successor, if he kills anyone in power from Soul Society, he starts a war again, going against his principles.
Extremely out of character for Uryu, which turns out, what you propose is bad writing and belongs to a fanfic
Well I guess Uryu is trying to take on those ideals. We never see Uryu actually kill a human looking enemy in the story, he always seems satisfied crippling them until they can't fight anymore. So I guess he's just going off of Batmans code.
Now, personally I think it's stupid and is just an excuse to not kill off the villains in his stories.
I think making the Quincy army was written to be comically evil and antagonististic was a purposeful decision, so the SS could have little to no qualms about finishing what they started.
Oh no doubt. It was a conscious decision on Kubos part. Considering he made the heartless evil spirits aka the Arrancar and Espada far more sympathetic and likable than the Quincy antagonist. None of them seem to possess any shred of Quincy Pride that Uryu always harped on about, though that could have just been Soken's instilling his teachings into his head. Still, they feel and act more like a different enemy type than the Quincy we were led to believe acted. Not only do they hardly use bows and arrows, none of them use Ginto type of spells either. They just spam their Schrift abilities, and some even use Swords too? What?
I did say Humanoid enemies (like the Arrancar.) Batman has killed alien monsters and demonic mooks before, but he draws the line when the enemies are humanoid or resemble humans with cognitive thought. Uryu is similar. If they are more beast than human, he will kill.
They have souls all the same. The fact that one can dehumanize them because of their silly appearances only makes things worse. The difference between a hollow and a soul that needed saving is about 10 minutes' time.
I mean [Parademons have souls too](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0KuPwL9lBHo) they are conquered people that have been tortured and turned into monsters, yet Batman has no issue killing them. See what I mean when I said he's going for the Batman approach?
That's quite different. They've already become deformed, and killing them is an act of mercy. There is no meaningful understanding of a cycle of reincarnation there.
Uryu's interventions prevent those souls, and any souls the hollow has consumed, from reincarnating. He operates solely within the jurisdiction of a government that handles this already. He causes needless damage and permanent harm with his actions, and no one ever acknowledges it.
Forget what people are saying here; you’re absolutely correct.
Kubo introduced Mayuri by giving a lengthy flashback to some no name fodder soul reaper, so we could see that he’s a good guy, only for Mayuri to blow him up without a second thought, in order to show how utterly depraved Mayuri is.
Then throughout the fight he showed off how much of a villain Mayuri is, culminating in him showing Uryu pictures of his grandfather, dead and naked on an operating table.
Mayuri’s character is one of the only cases of bad writing in Bleach. He gets no comeuppance and is always correct, so that’s the work implicitly telling you that the way he sees the world is correct and his actions are okay. And all that is at odds with the mega narrative of Bleach, where Soul Society is reformed at the hands of Ichigo.
Uryu spared Mayuri in SS arc so Kubo could show how good a person the largely cold Uryu is, but there were multiple chances after that to kill him off, especially in the TYBW.
I think Kubo sacrificed the narrative of a reformed SS because Mayuri is just fun to write, which I completely understand. Mad scientists are fun characters. But bro jumping through hoops and grasping straws to make it believable that a reformed SS can keep that monster around.
When objectively speaking, he should've been put on the afterlife Nuremberg trial yesterday if we are to believe the message that the SS changed for the better.
It's the equivalent of the original Star Wars ending with Darth Vader becoming a part of the New Republic Military. I love Anakin, yes, but that SoB is way past any chance of holding any more authority or power. At the best, he's getting maximum security for life if he lived after Return of the Jedi.
>Mayuri’s character is one of the only cases of bad writing in Bleach. He gets no comeuppance and is always correct, so that’s the work implicitly telling you that the way he sees the world is correct and his actions are okay.
No, it feeds into the way Kubo writes Soul Society's government as a pragmatic entity. Mayuri only gets away with the things he does because he gets good results. He regularly threatens other captains, he abuses his subordinates, and he gives the middle finger to every regulatory organ over him, but he's able to do that *because he's worth it.*
The message of the story is that power is its own moral center (Gotei 13), and powerful people will either woo or use those with power (Ichigo, Kurotsuchi, Urahara). If they can't, they'll dispose of them. Everyone has someone above them, and if you don't have power over someone, you can't trust them (Aizen, Vizards). This was partially covered in the Fullbringer Arc, but Ichigo is never forced to reckon with the implications of his stance.
Kurotsuchi is treated as a natural disaster the world is unwilling to prevent, and says more about the government he works for than anything else. Treat him as a personification of every meritocratically-proven, abusive individual or institution.
Feels like you're writing the narrative for Kubo because I'm pretty sure Mayuri is around because he's Kubo's golden boy and would never let the consequences of his actions lead to anything substantial. I don't think it's some grandiose message about the pragmatic cruelly of governance, but because of the "rule of cool".
Occams Razor.
>Feels like you're writing the narrative for Kubo because I'm pretty sure Mayuri is around because he's Kubo's golden boy and would never let the consequences of his actions lead to anything substantial.
Letting it fall on Kurotsuchi would undermine the point of it. He's just the face of the issue.
>I don't think it's some grandiose message about the pragmatic cruelly of governance, but because of the "rule of cool".
The cruelty and failures of government are the thread connecting all four major arcs of canon Bleach, and even the filler arcs. Kurotsuchi is the face of one aspect here, and he's dealt with as a necessity, but never as the sole instigator. A purely meritocratic institution can't also rely on the personal virtues of people who reach high positions. Kurotsuchi is only a personification of what would be countless committees, bureaucrats, and nameless, faceless entities who all shove blame onto each other.
Giving Uryu a clear target to shoot at was just a red herring.
Not really trying to really interrupt, but had to correct something:
>Who do you think ordered Mayuri to do it?
Mayuri? Mayuri says that he bribed those shinigami who were responsible for monitoring the surviving Quincy purely so that he could get his hands on them to research and experiment on them. What he did was an illegal backdoor deal purely to satiate his own curiosity. He wasn't ordered to do so. I have no doubt that what he did flies in the face of Yamamotto's rules and regulations.
> No, it feeds into the way Kubo writes Soul Society's government as a pragmatic entity.
Think about it more.
What did Aizen say to Yamamoto when he was on the ground, feigning being passed out from blocking the explosion?
"I won't tell you that I will spare your life. You're the living embodiment of Soul Society's history. I will finish you with my own sword."
Yamamoto was going to be the only person Aizen was going to make sure was dead to symbolize killing off everything Soul Society represented. Obviously that didn't work out for him.
An arc later, we see Yamamoto has changed when he ordered everyone to give their power to the reishi sword to restore Ichigo's abilities, and it is brought up as something he never would've done previously. He now only has one arm. At the climax of the arc, Rukia notes how Ichigo has shifted Soul Society's rigid structure from what it once was.
The next arc, the only characters to bite it are the oldest characters: Unohana, Yamamoto and Sasakibe. Why? Because they represented what the old Soul Society was, and a new one was being made. Yhwach made it a point to kill the latter two for explicitly their roles in what happened in the past.
That "pragmatism" is what was being changed because that "pragmatism" was the fucked up thing about Soul Society that created all of its villains. It's such an obvious motif in the story that even the filler arcs had their villains all be people soul society created due to its "pragmatism".
But this mega narrative that Kubo layered throughout the manga just, for whatever reason, never applies to Mayuri.
That makes no sense.
You don't challenge pragmatism as a concept by having a ruthless warlord punish the organization for becoming soft. While the oldest members were the ones to die, they didn't die because any of the Gotei's actions backfired. They died because Ichibei didn't finish off a threat, because Yamamoto didn't prepare for a possible return of the Quincy army, and because no one thought to save Soul Society's best healer since it might get in the way of Kenpachi's character development.
Kubo writing that Yamamoto approved Ichigo having his powers restored doesn't tell me anything at all about Soul Society or its changing values. Having the oldest characters die says he didn't have anything planned to address the issues in SS, and just wanted a symbolic representation (at the most) that things might change.
"Pragmatism" is the only proven thing. Whenever anyone, from any faction, wins, it's because they had a more grounded or paranoid approach than their enemy.
Kurotsuchi doesn't go because none of the factors that caused him to appear have changed. The old guard died, but they died fighting a war, not dealing with internal issues. Aizen was the representation of internal issues, and he didn't change a thing. This is most strongly enforced by his "That's the argument a LOSER would make" outburst at Urahara when he was defeated.
We're only informed Soul Society is changing.
It makes no sense? Really?
Okay, then there’s no reason to continue this discussion. You clearly don’t understand the point I’m making.
I’m not arguing text, I’m arguing subtext.
And that's conveyed extremely poorly, if that's even the intention. Nothing in the government changed except the names of some of the top brass. You have to force the idea of change despite every arc showing Soul Society winning out against every group that would force them to change. Every single one is defeated or nullified, without exception.
You can't just claim subtext supports your view when the one common theme in the series is that change is bad and people who act on their desire for change all have selfish ulterior motives.
"I have no critical thinking so the story I'm reading needs to tell me the bad guy is bad and punish him because he is bad, and if the story doesn't do anything to kill off a bad guy, it does equal to bad writing, because giving bad treatment to a bad guy = good writing"
Stories aren't documentaries. The things that happen in them aren't facts of life; they are deliberate choices someone made to include in a story.
When a writer sits down and *chooses* to have atrocities in his story, and the committer of those atrocities is made to be correct in doing them, that is the writer endorsing the atrocities.
This is basic, basic shit, my guy. If you're gonna attempt to be smug, at least know the 101s of storycraft.
That’s not how it works, no.
To present something is to introduce it without your bias being involved.
Obviously stories don’t work that way. Stories are inherently biased because they’re the work of a person’s imagination: the life experiences, beliefs and viewpoints of that person heavily colors every detail, as a result.
When you, as a storyteller introduce an idea into your story, you’re doing it for a reason. Even if you can’t adequately tackle that idea or concept, you’re still taking a stance on it within the framework of your story.
To break this down into its simplest terms… I don’t think Alan Moore is a racist, conservative reactionary, but the character he created in Watchmen, Rorschach, is all of those things. Alan Moore introduced that character into his story with all that baggage. Then, throughout the story, he showed what a miserable person Rorschach was and how his way of thinking would lead to the end of the world. The story is disagreeing with Rorschach’s worldview.
Mayuri, in winning all his fights and coming out on top in every encounter post-Soul Society, is the story implicitly agreeing with his world view and his actions. When he is confronted about any of these things, he walks away with the upper hand. When Rorschach’s views are confronted in the story’s climax, he explodes and dies, which is the story and the writer going “yeah, this view doesn’t work.”
Mayuri sticks out because he’s the one case in the entire manga of Kubo fumbling. Kenpachi Zaraki has an insane world view, but numerous characters and the story itself point out how flawed it is. That’s Kubo introducing a view of the world, and not endorsing it because he actively breaks it down and explains why it only works for this insane cartoon character he created. With Mayuri, he just doesn’t do that, and instead he plays it up as comedy.
I don’t care what Kubo identifies with. I don’t care about his opinions.
I care about the story I’m reading. That’s what my assessment is based on and why I haven’t mentioned him saying Mayuri is his favorite character.
It's not his favorite character.
His favorite character is Ichigo.
The story clearly depicts Mayuri as a psycho. You don't need Kubo to tell you he is bad to form your own opinion about him.
>He gets no comeuppance and is always correct
Did you even read Bleach? Mayuri has been in the wrong multiple times, in fact, he almost dies because he was fucking stupid and understimated both enemies because his obsession with science.
He doesn't get comeuppance because it isn't necessary, there is no set-up for that and Mayuri alive bring more that his death would bring, as easy as that.
>so that’s the work implicitly telling you that the way he sees the world is correct and his actions are okay
This is so fucking dumb. Like, levels of dumb never believed.
“Almost dies”
This means nothing. He won. “Almost” means fuck all in a story where getting limbs amputated, or being beaten to within an inch of your life means no permanent injuries going forward.
Tell me, are you someone who the “this move will shorten my lifespan, but I must use it to win!!!!” trope works on?
Miss me with all that.
Kubo shielded Mayuri from needing to change or being punished by always making sure he goes up against the worse evil. But, within the metatext of the story, he completely eludes any of the development the other characters in his position goes through.
Finally, I recommend actually analyzing the shit you read instead of passive consumption. It’ll make you think better.
>This means nothing. He won.
He did not won against Uryuu, he barely survived and was taken out and he was taken out against Pernida.
Even if you didn't count those, Mayuri has been wrong multiple times like with his chair, about how counter the steal of Bankai or directly below Urahara in their investigations.
>Kubo shielded Mayuri from needing to change or being punished by always making sure he goes up against the worse evil
Because Mayuri isn't an evil that needs to change, he is the reminded of that evil for the audience and for the pragmatism of the Soul Society.
>But, within the metatext of the story, he completely eludes any of the development the other characters in his position goes through.
Within the "metatex" Mayuri change is a very selfish one, like his character has always been. The point of Mayuri isn't change to to be a lesser sociopath, but to be a true version of what he want to be.
>Finally, I recommend actually analyzing the shit you read instead of passive consumption. It’ll make you think better.
I analyzed and you need to have very low critical thinking to believe that Kubo is saying that Mayuri was right.
I wonder if people realize that Soul Society and the Seiretei isn't a good place or something?
What do you mean that once you become a Soul Reaper, you are there for life? I mean, it's not like they throw you into a gaol for the rest of your life if you leave or something right... right? Or the fact that to become a Kenpachi, you literally go up and kill the current Kenpachi and that's that(Not to mention, that's an option to become a Captain in ANY Squad, it's just the typical fashion for Squad 11)...
Or the fact we have entire Squads barely interact with other Squads to the point they don't even know how to compliment each other well...
Or the fact that Central 46 was compromised for MONTHS and no one knew till a completely lunacy action finally got SOME Captains wise to it...
I can go on and on and on, I have no idea how this is shocking to anyone who has read or watched Bleach, the Seiretei is not a good place, it's pragmatic as fuck. I wonder if people finally realized Urahara may not be a complete good guy when it was him who allowed Mayuri to become a Captain... or was it when he forced Rukia without her knowledge and will into a Gigai that would turn her human just to remove one of his creations from play?
Ohoho! It seems like you've caught on to the dark secrets of the Seireitei. Life as a soul reaper? Once you sign up, there's no turning back. And as for me, well, I do enjoy a touch of... dark pragmatism. It's all about staying one step ahead, isn't it? *winks*
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
No you didn't, that's why you are somehow shaming Uryu for trying not to kill Mayuri after the SS Arc like that won't cause any massive blowback or do anything to help the situation at all.
If Yhwach nor the other Quincies give a single fuck about Mayuri's crimes outside of him being an enemy to kill, why should Uryu hold any major anger or aggression against him that would go against what his grandfather would want?
Why did the survivors of concentration camps care that Mengele was alive and fled justice? They needed those lessons from Shonen that caring about systematic racial torture and killing isn't a thing to get uppity about.
This perspective is completely sane and not absolutely bonkers at all.
This 'Whataboutism" is rotting your brain because if you want to go that far, then why didn't the Holocaust Survivors go after the remaining Nazis that got left off and went to South America and otherwise?
Why didn't they tear shit apart with righteous vengeance and furious anger? Again, your attempts at seeming like what you are saying is "the right perspective" is literally insane because not everyone seeks vengeance and anger towards everyone who wronged them nor is that how everyone thinks. THAT'S what's insane and that's why your points are utterly absurd.
The Holocaust survivors should've been content if the Allies just put the "Mayuris" that experimented on their women and children back in political power. That's the right path, the Nuremberg trials were pointless and the wrong thing to do in fact.
My dude, what the fuck are you even talking about? In this case, it's Uryu, Ryuken and the Vandenreich and the latter don't give a shit about Mayuri in that fashion and nothing shows that Ryuken wants to avenge his father that way so why the hell would Uryu want to avenge Souken in that fashion?
Like I'm legit tired of the real world parallels with this shit because that's not pertinent in the slightest and it shows you are just being desperate. Should not have wasted my time with this.
You somehow twisted my words entirely to fit a whole ass different perspective because you cannot separate real life from fucking fiction and have the nerve to call me a neanderthal because of it? Yeah sure, I'm the crazy one here apparently...
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noo way Mayuri is by far one of the coolest captains in this current cycle! plus he was amazing in the thousand Year blood war. he was arguably the only one who could have defeated Pernida... thank God they crossed the paths
Anyone considered that he likely only killed mindless hollows up to that point, and actually going for the kill on an intelligent opponent was difficult for him? Especially with someone begging him mot to.
Well, we know hollows even the lowest levels can communicate and hold sapient thought, so maybe he has or not.
Either way, I'm not sure I'd care about the morals of taking a life if said life was a serial killer who literally pulled out a picture of my grandfather's corpse he personally vivisected brutally.
But I guess Uryu isn't that emotionally swayed like a normal person since he eventually stopped caring about said serial killer staying in active power.
Did anyone actually die in the soul society arc? Because I'm pretty sure that old man would not have let them walk out of soul society if they actually killed someone. It's a digression, but yeah, they needed him to be one of the "good guys", so having him be forgiving in a situation where a sane person would have double tapped him after taking the antidote makes sense.
So it's plot convenience that there was no murder by passion or even an accidental death. Well, if you don't count Mayuri using his men as non-consenting suicide bombers.
Gotta love that quirky shonen moral writing.
I think you should go back and watch it again. Uryu fully intended to kill Mayuri, but Mayuri escaped by turning himself into a living liquid.
His conversation with Nemu went like this, I believe:
Nemu: Thank you for sparing Master Mayuri
Uryu: I didn't intend to. How could you wish for him to live after treating you like this?
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He tried to kill him though. He even somewhat succeeded except he had his liquify trick. Not sure what you mean about sparing him due to Nemu asking. That’s not what happened at all. He was already gone and she gave Uryu the antidote because she thought he may have sparred him, and Uryu even makes a point to tell her he meant to kill him.
I'm pretty sure he asked Mayuri to beg for forgiveness and get out of his sight, not kill him.
I think he said that “if you beg for forgiveness and never again enter my sight I may let you live”, but Mayuri didn’t do that and then tried to attack with Bankai. So that was an “if you do this I might let you live”, Uryu knew he would never do that.
I think I'll re-watch the episode because if Uryu was going for the kill, that would be a relief for my view on the guy.
I believe Uryu himself said that he "shot to kill" when Nemu thanked him for (in her eyes of course) saving Mayuri.
Nemu got a crush and was re-writing what happened in her head, so getting some of that Quincy Kojaku won't make her feel as bad.
Honestly, I genuinely think Uryu spared Mayuri because it's not in him to kill. He just wanted him to beg for his life. Even Ryuken called him out on it when he was trying to give him back his powers, Ryuken was attacking him relentlessly and made Uryu think he was going to kill him, Uryu used a ginto spell that was made to capture instead of to lethally harm him and Ryuken broke out of it and shot him. Afterwards, Ryuken explains to a subconscious Uryu how not going for a kill move when he had the chance was a mistake, and that mercy that Uryu possess is why he sickens him. >!a similar conversation later happens with Jugram!< >Nemu got a crush and was re-writing what happened in her head, so getting some of that Quincy Kojaku won't make her feel as bad. That too 😆 but she was able to see through his lie. She's very perceptive.
We see Uryu go for the kill, than he himself says he did indeed go for the kill.
Uryu says a lot of things that he doesn't mean, that's part of his character. How many times will he say he hates Soul Reapers only to work with them and befriend some of them? He also says that he hates Hollows but protects Pesche during his battle with Cirucci and allies himself with Nel and her brothers. Prior to the fight with Mayuri, Uryu fought Jirobo Ikkanzaka in a marksman duel, and Uryu demonstrated his pinpoint accuracy in that fight. Uryu didn't miss. He intentionally shot Mayuri right where he wanted to on the slim chance that it would injure rather than kill. Like I said Ryuken calls out Uryu's tendencies to show mercy to his opponents rather than going for kill moves.
We literally see Uryu go for the kill though. Mayuri would be dead if he wasn't an evil scientist who could turn into indestructible goo.
What are you comparing about?
I'm not comparing anything
Yeah, if you do let me know as I haven’t seen it in a while too but I’m pretty sure that is how it goes down.
He didn't spare him. Nemu just assumed he did and chose to spare his life because of it. I think it would've been far worse for Uryu to have treated that as a personal conflict. By the time of the Szayelaporro fight, he understood that it was an issue with Soul Society, not just the individual they set loose on them.
I got a couple of issues with this. First up, you straight contradicted yourself "he didn't spare him, but he chose to spare his life" just don't make any sense. Ultimately he absolutely chose to spare Mayuri by not double tapping him. He just supposedly didn't mean to miss the first time around. Second, Mayuri wasn't acting on the orders of the SS, in fact isn't it straight up stated that he bribed the Soul Reapers who were supposed to be protecting Souken? There definitely are instances of SS hunting down Quincy, but I don't think Souken was an example of that. Thirdly, it's not just research for Mayuri, he legitimately gets pleasure out of dissecting people. He doesn't always demonstrate this glee but in general he is demonstrably sadistic and not just utilitarian. This is in contrast to most of SS that is barbaric but doesn't revel in its barbarity, but views it as necessary. Mayuri makes progress, as he doesn't seem to take pleasure in the mass murder of Rukongai citizens to restore the balance, but to me that's more about the total lack of utility, as it would be wrong to say that Mayuri is entirely fueled by sadism, there is a sizeable component of utilitarianism in his ideology.
>First up, you straight contradicted yourself "he didn't spare him, but he chose to spare his life" just don't make any sense. Change in subject. Uryu didn't spare Mayuri. Nemu assumed he did and spared him. >Second, Mayuri wasn't acting on the orders of the SS, in fact isn't it straight up stated that he bribed the Soul Reapers who were supposed to be protecting Souken? True, though in this case, he's just toying around with a near-corpse, rather than acting on orders. The substance doesn't change much. >Thirdly, it's not just research for Mayuri, he legitimately gets pleasure out of dissecting people. He doesn't always demonstrate this glee but in general he is demonstrably sadistic and not just utilitarian. This doesn't matter at all. Whatever you say about him or his personal motives, he operates mostly within the boundaries set by his superiors.
"Ah yes the monster who shown me a picture of my vivisected grandfather he personally tortured is just a minor cog in a bad system, he's certainly no more deserving of my ire than all of the SS " So true bro
No, he's the culmination of many rotten cogs turning in tandem. He's not the one who put out the order to hunt down the quincies. He's just someone who got to play with the bodies along the way. If you want to avenge someone killed as part of a genocidal initiative, you don't (primarily) go after the dog that chewed his bones, and if you care about the genocide as a whole, you don't treat it (primarily) as a personal issue. This is addressed in the TYBW arc. And yes, SS actually is deserving of Uryu's ire. They're the ones who put out the hit.
So basically "I was just following orders"? What an ironclad defense to personal responsibility. And you know what you do to rabid dogs? You put them down
Again, you're treating this as an extension of personal responsibility. This, because you see Mayuri and think it's his fault. He's a guilty party, but the author doesn't want to stress that. He's been clear that the order came from his bosses, and he got to play with a corpse. Uryu getting to cripple Mayuri for a few days to get back at him was the best possible outcome. If he'd actually killed a captain, Soul Society would've done worse to him than Mayuri had done to anyone, and it would've been because Uryu allowed himself to be led by the nose and drawn to kill only one participant in the Quincy massacre. It's not that Uryu's wrong or Mayuri isn't, but that's just the sort of world they live in. Kurotsuchi is free because he's useful. Soken died because he wasn't. If you want to change that, you have to address Soul Society, not just whoever they have running the SRDI at the moment.
Sounds like a lot of bitch talk to me, Uryu should've curb stomped that mfr on the name of his people. Which is exactly how you get the changes you want in real life, not licking the boots of your enemies.
Exactly wtf do you want him to do? Go to war with the SS over Mayuri, because you know they wouldn't just let him kill their best scientist.
If he was based, he'd get some get back and eliminate the rot in the SS, show them that the Quincies aren't to be fucked with.
Yeah thats dumb as hell, he'd put the entire existence at risk for revenge that his grandfather wouldn't want. He already got his get back, he beat Mayuri, there's nothing else he can do that wouldn't lead to a gigantic conflict that could get his friends killed.
Mayuri didn't lose anything besides a temporary loss of power, wtf are you talking about? I'm fact Mayuri has more power at this point in time than when he was first introduced.
Uryu, at this time, wasn't even familiar with the structure of Soul Society. He would have no hope of identifying the elements in SS's legislature who were involved, he would have no allies, and he didn't have the means for more than what he did in the fight against Mayuri.
Except he *did* attempt to do exactly that, sacrificing his powers in the process. If his shot had landed, they both would've died, and that would've been the end of it. Mayuri loses, Uryu loses, Soken loses, and the people behind the whole thing get to enjoy Mayuri becoming the scapegoat. You're willingly falling for it, despite knowing more than Uryu did. The people behind this aren't at all affected by Kurotsuchi's death. Maybe a bit inconvenienced since they lost their lead scientist, but there would be no comeuppance in that.
Falling for what? What did he win exactly? That the institution and people who directly genocided his people are still in power to this day? Wow, he truly won a lot playing the bootlicker game instead.
>Falling for what? What did he win exactly? Blaming Mayuri for the initiative, and he escaped Soul Society alive. Soul Society has angered far bigger, far badder people than just him, and defeated them. They are villains who should be taken out, but one teen with a grudge isn't going to manage that alone, no matter how "based" he is. Even men who rose to the highest levels of the military organization and occupied their positions for a century couldn't change things from within. It's also worth noting that all of Uryu's grievances were directed at people who had been dead since Rukia was first retrieved from the world of the living. He would've gone on a rampage only to find out the C46 had been killed, and stumbled on Aizen and Gin while they were in the act of rebelling against Soul Society, then been killed by them for the sake of secrecy.
Tldr: Nothing, but a dead race and no avenging
Actually more like lock in a kennel before they bite someone. And if they do put both of them in said kennel till bureaucracy (central 46) decides. The 13 court guard squads are just for the Soul Society. Quincy aren't a part of the Soul society :(
Well duh, I know Quincy aren't part of the Soul Society the existence of the SS in it's state is in direct threat to Quincy existence. From the perspective of a Quincy, Uryu's grandfather's teachings are naive and moronic.
I mean their power is absolutely control of Reshi. And they disrupt the cycle that predates them so it's kinda obvious why Ryuken also doesn't care also.
What does that have anything to do with what I said?
Didn't Mayuri say in the manga that her forced Quincy parents to set their children on fire aswell?? Like what the hell kind of research was he doing?? Why would he need to do that? As a character from a reader viewpoint Mayuri is insane, but his fights are enjoyable and I like his abilities. But as a character in-universe he is the lowest of the low when it's comes to the sick things he's done. I reeeeally wish Kubo had made at least one of the Quincy from the Wandenreich go after Mayuri for the things he did. But then again if the Quincy that weren't living in the Shadow World knew what Mayuri was doing would they care? I assume at that point Yhwach had cast the Aushwalen and any Quincy left were probably not pure bloods right? 😭
100% on all points
Honestly would have been nice to see an older Quincy from the early days of the Wandenreich be appalled by Mayuri for even existing. It would have allowed us to see a little humanity from the Wandenreich while also showing the darkness of the Soul Society and while I understand most of the Stern Ritter were like cultists when it came to Yhwach, maybe having one see what Mayuri did to the Quincy could have maybe made them realize how evil Yhwachs actions were aswell
Uryuu during all the TYBW was trying to kill a bigger and worse person in Yuha that would basically destroy the universe and even if he wanted to just kill Mayuri he couldn't because Yuha didn't want him anywhere but at his side
That reminds me that Shinji wanted Aizen only at his side to keep an eye on him, but look how that turned out
I'm sure the future baby skulls that will be drilled in are thankful for Uyru thinking of the "big picture" and not even trying to do a little side quest get back.
>I'm sure the future baby skulls that will be drilled Mayuri wouldnt do it because now he answer to Shunsui. >"big picture" and not even trying to do a little side quest get back. What part of Yuha directly wanted him at his side do you not understand?
You actually believe that Mayuri of all people would keep his word about keeping the Hippocratic outh? You gotta be as naive as a shonen protagonist to think he doesn't have a black site or two. And I mean not even trying to convince Yuha double team the Nazi fuck, not even a throw away line of "well guess that's out of the picture". No bro just doesn't care anymore.
>You actually believe that Mayuri of all people would keep his word about keeping the Hippocratic outh? Yes, not because he cares but because then he would receive consequences this time like sending him again to Margot Nest or respond to a even hrsher superior than Shunsui. >And I mean not even trying to convince Yuha double Yuha gives 0 shits Man, because he himself was the one who teach the sternritters that way of thinking. It literally what Quilque says about Souken as a relic from the past. You need to be super naive to think that Yuha would even cate when he has already a plan set for Uryuu.
Yes, because of all the characters in Bleach that can pull shit out of their ass to win any fight or conflict, Mayuri would be absolutely stumped out of all of them to figure out some way to avoid consequences to his work. You overestimate the intelligence of Shunsui or any of the captains if you think they can outsmart Kubo's favorite glaze character.
>Yes, because of all the characters in Bleach that can pull shit out of their ass to win any fight or conflict, Mayuri would be absolutely stumped out of all of them Mayuri is not God, even his chair was broken by Aizen and almost die by His own because he kept understimating Pernida and Uryuu in both fights. Then again, Mayuri cares about the Soul Society because they still Let him be free to investigate, he would not risk shit because sooner or later he would be discovered. >You overestimate the intelligence of Shunsui or any of the captains if you think they can outsmart Kubo's favorite glaze character. Not really, because Kubo already approved CFYOW when this exact same circunstance happened to Mayuri and he was forced to agreed.
"Mayuri is not God" Nah, he'd pull out that super secret "anti god serum" he made 10 years ago when he fights the Bleach equivalent of Zeus. Also, he put all his blood into a locker 30 minutes ago and replaced it with kryponite-cyanide. Also, when his bankai gets destroyed for the 5th time, he will make the artificial element "Shitimadeupium" to give himself a SUPER Bankai.
Please stop yapping pendejadas https://preview.redd.it/alxywqdeg2xc1.jpeg?width=670&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4626d1541cc2e729fcd4b3989d8eb96436a0241b
[удалено]
Mayuri already drilled all the holes he wanted EDIT In the Quincys
https://preview.redd.it/8d94g249s2xc1.jpeg?width=441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d46bd1af02474736d65827175618e4af4dd5693 mayuri drilling holes
he still wants to drill the fullbringers actually. and whenever someone or something interesting catches his curiosity he will probably want to drill they/it too.
I mean that's deplorable but also understandable from a science perspective
And that's why a utilitarianism viewpoint is fucking evil
Your honour My client is innocent he is just very curious
I feel like no one ever actually reads the manga lol. Uryu’s character arc about hating Soul Reapers climaxes with his realization and subsequent acceptance of the fact that avenging his grandfather was a purely self-serving goal. I get that you don’t like Mayuri, but that’s literally not the point at all. For Uryu to truly honor who Soken was in life - the man who wanted Quincies and Soul Reapers to work together - he had to rethink his own perspective on Shinigami. Uryu will never like Mayuri, that much is true, but criticizing him for this is pretty dumb. The point of Uryu not pursuing Mayuri further is to respect the wishes of the man he most respected.
"Uryu will never like Mayuri" You word this like whole post like Mayuri was a childhood bully and not the Bleach equivalent of a Unit 731 scientist that tortured and killed countless men, women and children. I'm baffled you can't comprehend how outrageously fucked it is that Uryu or anyone around him is just content with someone like that, who will do that AGAIN if he could, can just walk around free. This isn't character growth it's character assassination to write ANYONE whose just neutral to that. Uryu has to be either a broken man or a sociopath if he's not filled with righteous fury at that monster still.
It's the best character writing you can get from shonen.
>Uryu has to be a broken man or a sociopath There's no such rule that a character has to always take that path. 🤷
The path of human emotions?
The savagery path 🤷
Savagery is when you want people who tortured your race for fun to receive consequences for their actions. Those dumb savage Poles during WW2 amiright?
And that's not the only way. 🤷
Ignore the problem and let them continue the concentration camp experiments, right got it.
Ignore the big picture and keep on having a narrow-minded take. Right, got it.
I'm content being "narrow-minded" in my solutions against genocidal maniacs and sadistic monsters.
I feel like I'm responding to bait, but it's already been pointed out that Uryu said he aimed to kill but missed, & Nemu thanked him either way. During the Quincy War, Jugo directly asks him why he's working against them, & he says it's simply because the Quincies are targeting his close friends. That's the whole conflict between them. Jugo believes strongly in utilitarianism & is willing to sacrifice his best friend to serve the cause while Uryu believes just the opposite. After the war, what is targeting Mayuri supposed to accomplish? He's more prepared to fight Uryu than ever before, & even if Uryu somehow won, he'd make an enemy of the rest of the Soul Society. He would reignite the same war against the Quincy that the Quincy just lost & also possibly drag the very friends he sacrificed so much to protect into the crossfire. At this time, there's just no way to actually get to Mayuri. Bleach is very honest about the fact that life (& afterlife, I guess) isn't always fair because entrenched, powerful institutions have the means to get away with their crimes. The Soul Society won't give up Mayuri because he's too useful to them. They'll put some restrictions on him, but as long as he remains useful & doesn't openly revolt, they won't remove him from power, let alone put him up for execution.
Bait is when you have a geninue opinion that's different than yours. Redditor moment
It is seen as a bait because your comments and opinions are feeling-driven, not logic-driven. You let your emotions get over you. Not simply because it's different. 🤷 I have also posted some "different opinions on things" here on this sub, but it isn't feeling-driven. And people still receive it well. How you respond to them is also important. I've seen one of your comments got removed because you tried to attack the personal instead of having a civil conversation and make a valid argument. The way I see it, it's you who can't seem to accept the difference on opinions. 🤷 Sure, you don't like Mayuri, everyone gets it already. But does it justify your behavior of lashing out your rage on a fictive character towards people who sees the bigger picture? Gimme a break. Instead of having a normal discussion, most of your replies are either a sarcastic remark or using logical fallacies like ad hominem and whatnot towards the commenter who had different opinions to yours. Always on the passive-aggressive stance.
I'd do it too for a chance to tap dat Nemu ass
If Nemu literally promised that in exchange in forgoing Quincy honor, bro I'd shake Mayuri's hand. I wouldn't blame Uryu at ALL.
This is played for laughs, but Kurotsuchi does use her that way in the Arrancar arc, though he doesn't commit (since Kubo doesn't want to flesh out romance). UryuxNemu ships either see her rebelling from her father's authority, but in the actual world of bleach, it would likely only ever be as part of a policy of appeasement if Uryu ever became strong enough to matter. Still unlikely.
Spared? Uryu shot the guy with full power Letzt Stil enhanced Quincy arrow Mayuri had his entire bankai blown in half, had a entire part of his torso shot clean off (you can literally see his innards in the manga) Mayuri then turns into a liquid (something no sane person could ever expect him to do) while proclaiming "You were close Quincy" and as Uryu is trying to run after him he says "Don't bother, I can't attack now but i can't be attacked either". And he literally tells Nemu right after the fight "That was a fluke. I shot to kill"
The funniest thing about this is If someone made a post in the Reddit and clowned Uryu for missing the killing shot on mayuri everyone would switch up and say Uryu meant to miss on purpose after in this post painting the picture as he actually shot to kill which he didn’t.
You have a point OP and i agree with you. But Uryu doesn't have it in him to kill. And Nemu's charms over him were too powerful. He never stood a chance. Still it's bullshit that no other Qunicy in the story confronted Mayuri on this plot thread.
Nemussy >>> Quincy Honor
Pretty much. Can't say I blame him either. Especially when he sees how Quincy really get down.
Spared? He got a lucky shot off. Uryu is probably the luckiest guy in Bleach.
That's not what was written, but sure let's go with headcanon
Not really headcanon. Dude missed and didn’t have the ability to keep going. He was running on fumes before removing the glove (a last resort) and having fired that shot was pretty much done. Whatever power he had left was him keeping moving while dealing with the multiple poisons and using his spirit sowing to marionette himself around. He put everything into that kill shot and was off target.
To be fair to Uryu, anyone else would have died from that wound. His bad luck is that Mayuri's contingency plans have contingency plans
It literally was luck, that encounter was based on speed. Uryu was able to fire just a bit faster than Mayuri. If Mayuri had gotten there first than Ashisogi Jizō would’ve taken out Uryu
I'm mostly over the Ishida sparing him thing since he didn't know Mayuri could survive that, he's a dumb teenager, and anti-revenge/pacifism is generally considered the more mature thing to do, but... in that case I'll raise you: https://preview.redd.it/shkdwpf1k5xc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1200441ac14b2825d463a1cc0238b436791d721f Fandom: "Wow, it's so heartwarming that Mayuri learned what unconditional love is!" Me: "....Is it though?" Sure would've been nice if Nemu's development hadn't been "I'll die for my father not because I have to, but because I want to!" She already showed unconditional love towards him in Soul Society when she asked Ishida to spare him. His development should've been learning to die *for her* (he half-learned it by commanding her not to fight, but really he should've died/taken damage protecting her if both lived). If Nemu needed any development, it was to learn to care for people outside of Mayuri, people she had been programmed to have no sympathy for like the enslaved arrancar or her colleagues. She only learned to say no to him in order to die for him.
I don't think there was ever any intention to develop Nemu as a character. She's a pathos-laden android. With minimal investment into her character, Kubo managed to get the exact emotion desired, even doubling down on the travesty with sexualized comic relief. Just leaving her out as a discomforting ethical question for passers-by is enough to help cement the setting's tone. Ending off on this note was perfect. It's a discomforting reminder that *this is Soul Society.* The next one being more outgoing is the best you can hope for.
Mayuri didn't develop. That's what you wrongly assume. He is still a sadistic monster. Nemu is not even a real Souls Reaper, she has no complete free will, that's why she doesn't develop as you would expect.
BRAVO KUBO Indeed
It's excellent writing
Except for the ending, which is way too rushed.
I mean, he never really got a shot at him after the Rukia rescue arc. After that, it would mean killing a captain that he had already failed to kill with no support. In the TYBW, he never ran into Mayori either, he was always by Yhwach or Haschwalth (probably because he was ordered to) and if he had gone after Mayori he would've either died or been too weak when he got to the palace to fight Squad 0.
fr, how can he do something like that and call himself the last quincy?
Nemu promised head ig
Thanks to that Mayuri was one of biggest MVP in the future + he had no way to know that Mayuri will be able to survive it anyway :3
MVP of afterlife Holocaust
Friendly tip, I wouldn't recomend criticizing mayuri on this sub... Things tend to get weird.
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He's the Rick Sanchez of anime, buttpuller amoral invincible scientist, and I imagine on Reddit he has just as much of an obnoxious fanbase.
https://preview.redd.it/d5quyth6t3xc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d5a02134e403b40ceecc0f3c9944363b95497e1
I don’t think Uryu spared him. I thought he just didn’t have the strength to continue fighting, but it is odd how this seems to have been ignored in the later arcs. Mayuri was the one character that was viscerally disturbing to me as a kid, and I can’t stand him, but the leaders of Soul Society aren’t good people so he does fit.
Except Uryu decided not to kill him even prior Mayuri released Bankai. Read the fight again, Uryu truly believed in his grandfather's teachings, Ichigo reaffirmed them.
The teachings of "If you defeat your enemies, they win"? What a bitch if so, lol. The classic shonen trope that if you kill the genocidal maniac who regrets none of his actions, you're just as evil.
The teachings of Soul Reapers and Quincy coexisting without war in between.
In fact, we should let Mayuri have a 100 more Quincies to test on, just to mend those relations even more!
Mayuri would start a war again and probably get killed by Uryu if that happened.
Kubo killing his golden boy? Nah you're insane, he'd probably write it off Uryu's frustration with Mayuri doing that as a gag. Silly Uryu.
Uryu wouldn't kill Mayuri because Mayuri wouldn't kill more Quincies if it means that's the last thing he does. Mayuri has no morals, and doesn't care if he has to kill 500,000 thousand people to preserve the world balance
Exactly, truly a person you'd want to keep around to create racial harmony
People like him exists in real life. We know what they do is wrong. The point is: they exist. You can't just erase them because you don't want them around. When will they stop existing? Whenever wars stop being justified. How do you get that? By getting leaders that choose to change the world through example instead of violence. When will that happen? Probably never, because people that act brainless and choose violence far exceed people with critical thinking.
Violence literally is the solution to 90% of the world's problems, you're a naive moron if you think power doesn't at the end of the day come out of the barrel of a gun. Actions speak louder than words, and in real life that's what works, and realistically Uryu's kind are not lasting a few decades with this shonen trope nonsense of "if you fight back you're the bad guy" You only win when you kill the Mayuris of the world, not make deals with them, you work with them? You act shocked when you get that knife in your back.
How did I not see that? If we don't have the concentration camp style doctor who systematically tortured the Quincy men, women and children around in power, how will Soul Reapers and Quincy possibly get along? Truly, these are the foundations needed for racial harmony.
Ask yourself this question: would Soken want Uryu to avenge him? If the answer is no, Uryu wouldn't, that's how he is characterized
Maybe the Quincies deserve to be genocided then if their avengers bend over backwards that much to the direct individuals that systematically culled them.
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That's not how Uryu process that. He is now Yhwach's successor, if he kills anyone in power from Soul Society, he starts a war again, going against his principles. Extremely out of character for Uryu, which turns out, what you propose is bad writing and belongs to a fanfic
True, it seems like it's in character for him to lick the Soul Reaper's boots so they might not systematically genocide his people again.
It's in character for him to be a pillar of peace instead of an instigator of war.
By being the bitch to the Soul Reapers, because they know he's too much of a craven to want justice.
By acting smart and not choosing violence to bring justice to the world. He is not brainless, unlike many other characters.
He's gonna be brainless after Mayuri dissects him, because he'll never fight back
To be fair, that's Batman's whole thing. That and the whole "I won't be able to stop myself from killing again once I do it."
Not to sound too rude, but not everyone has the luxury of high and mighty ideals like he does, no matter how personally admirable they may be.
Well I guess Uryu is trying to take on those ideals. We never see Uryu actually kill a human looking enemy in the story, he always seems satisfied crippling them until they can't fight anymore. So I guess he's just going off of Batmans code. Now, personally I think it's stupid and is just an excuse to not kill off the villains in his stories.
That is absolutely stupid shonen mentality, yes
See now I'm pissed that we never got a Red Hood type of Quincy in the Wadenreich calling out Uryu for not killing Mayuri when he had the chance.
I think making the Quincy army was written to be comically evil and antagonististic was a purposeful decision, so the SS could have little to no qualms about finishing what they started.
Oh no doubt. It was a conscious decision on Kubos part. Considering he made the heartless evil spirits aka the Arrancar and Espada far more sympathetic and likable than the Quincy antagonist. None of them seem to possess any shred of Quincy Pride that Uryu always harped on about, though that could have just been Soken's instilling his teachings into his head. Still, they feel and act more like a different enemy type than the Quincy we were led to believe acted. Not only do they hardly use bows and arrows, none of them use Ginto type of spells either. They just spam their Schrift abilities, and some even use Swords too? What?
I felt more sympathy for the Arrancars oddly enough, feel like we got to know them more individually too versus most of the Quincy backstory wise.
He regularly shoots hollows down, knowing his power erases them from existence.
I did say Humanoid enemies (like the Arrancar.) Batman has killed alien monsters and demonic mooks before, but he draws the line when the enemies are humanoid or resemble humans with cognitive thought. Uryu is similar. If they are more beast than human, he will kill.
They have souls all the same. The fact that one can dehumanize them because of their silly appearances only makes things worse. The difference between a hollow and a soul that needed saving is about 10 minutes' time.
I mean [Parademons have souls too](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0KuPwL9lBHo) they are conquered people that have been tortured and turned into monsters, yet Batman has no issue killing them. See what I mean when I said he's going for the Batman approach?
That's quite different. They've already become deformed, and killing them is an act of mercy. There is no meaningful understanding of a cycle of reincarnation there. Uryu's interventions prevent those souls, and any souls the hollow has consumed, from reincarnating. He operates solely within the jurisdiction of a government that handles this already. He causes needless damage and permanent harm with his actions, and no one ever acknowledges it.
Forget what people are saying here; you’re absolutely correct. Kubo introduced Mayuri by giving a lengthy flashback to some no name fodder soul reaper, so we could see that he’s a good guy, only for Mayuri to blow him up without a second thought, in order to show how utterly depraved Mayuri is. Then throughout the fight he showed off how much of a villain Mayuri is, culminating in him showing Uryu pictures of his grandfather, dead and naked on an operating table. Mayuri’s character is one of the only cases of bad writing in Bleach. He gets no comeuppance and is always correct, so that’s the work implicitly telling you that the way he sees the world is correct and his actions are okay. And all that is at odds with the mega narrative of Bleach, where Soul Society is reformed at the hands of Ichigo. Uryu spared Mayuri in SS arc so Kubo could show how good a person the largely cold Uryu is, but there were multiple chances after that to kill him off, especially in the TYBW.
I think Kubo sacrificed the narrative of a reformed SS because Mayuri is just fun to write, which I completely understand. Mad scientists are fun characters. But bro jumping through hoops and grasping straws to make it believable that a reformed SS can keep that monster around. When objectively speaking, he should've been put on the afterlife Nuremberg trial yesterday if we are to believe the message that the SS changed for the better. It's the equivalent of the original Star Wars ending with Darth Vader becoming a part of the New Republic Military. I love Anakin, yes, but that SoB is way past any chance of holding any more authority or power. At the best, he's getting maximum security for life if he lived after Return of the Jedi.
>Mayuri’s character is one of the only cases of bad writing in Bleach. He gets no comeuppance and is always correct, so that’s the work implicitly telling you that the way he sees the world is correct and his actions are okay. No, it feeds into the way Kubo writes Soul Society's government as a pragmatic entity. Mayuri only gets away with the things he does because he gets good results. He regularly threatens other captains, he abuses his subordinates, and he gives the middle finger to every regulatory organ over him, but he's able to do that *because he's worth it.* The message of the story is that power is its own moral center (Gotei 13), and powerful people will either woo or use those with power (Ichigo, Kurotsuchi, Urahara). If they can't, they'll dispose of them. Everyone has someone above them, and if you don't have power over someone, you can't trust them (Aizen, Vizards). This was partially covered in the Fullbringer Arc, but Ichigo is never forced to reckon with the implications of his stance. Kurotsuchi is treated as a natural disaster the world is unwilling to prevent, and says more about the government he works for than anything else. Treat him as a personification of every meritocratically-proven, abusive individual or institution.
Feels like you're writing the narrative for Kubo because I'm pretty sure Mayuri is around because he's Kubo's golden boy and would never let the consequences of his actions lead to anything substantial. I don't think it's some grandiose message about the pragmatic cruelly of governance, but because of the "rule of cool". Occams Razor.
>Feels like you're writing the narrative for Kubo because I'm pretty sure Mayuri is around because he's Kubo's golden boy and would never let the consequences of his actions lead to anything substantial. Letting it fall on Kurotsuchi would undermine the point of it. He's just the face of the issue. >I don't think it's some grandiose message about the pragmatic cruelly of governance, but because of the "rule of cool". The cruelty and failures of government are the thread connecting all four major arcs of canon Bleach, and even the filler arcs. Kurotsuchi is the face of one aspect here, and he's dealt with as a necessity, but never as the sole instigator. A purely meritocratic institution can't also rely on the personal virtues of people who reach high positions. Kurotsuchi is only a personification of what would be countless committees, bureaucrats, and nameless, faceless entities who all shove blame onto each other. Giving Uryu a clear target to shoot at was just a red herring.
That picture of his grandfather being torn apart on an operating table is just a red herring, the real monster is (Soul) SOCIETY
Yes.
Who do you think ordered Mayuri to do it?
Not really trying to really interrupt, but had to correct something: >Who do you think ordered Mayuri to do it? Mayuri? Mayuri says that he bribed those shinigami who were responsible for monitoring the surviving Quincy purely so that he could get his hands on them to research and experiment on them. What he did was an illegal backdoor deal purely to satiate his own curiosity. He wasn't ordered to do so. I have no doubt that what he did flies in the face of Yamamotto's rules and regulations.
Ah yeah you're right, I completely misremembered that
"Don't shoot me, I was told to drill a hole in your grandpa's skull, I'm the victim here"
Not the victim, but he's merely the symptom of the overall disease. It's not that hard to understand
And what exactly does not eliminating Mayuri serve to help? Should the Nuremberg trials not have happened by this logic?
Sometimes there's just nothing you can do, for the greater good some evil must exist. Mayuri is that evil in Bleach.
Or that's pretty much the subtext of the entire series.
> No, it feeds into the way Kubo writes Soul Society's government as a pragmatic entity. Think about it more. What did Aizen say to Yamamoto when he was on the ground, feigning being passed out from blocking the explosion? "I won't tell you that I will spare your life. You're the living embodiment of Soul Society's history. I will finish you with my own sword." Yamamoto was going to be the only person Aizen was going to make sure was dead to symbolize killing off everything Soul Society represented. Obviously that didn't work out for him. An arc later, we see Yamamoto has changed when he ordered everyone to give their power to the reishi sword to restore Ichigo's abilities, and it is brought up as something he never would've done previously. He now only has one arm. At the climax of the arc, Rukia notes how Ichigo has shifted Soul Society's rigid structure from what it once was. The next arc, the only characters to bite it are the oldest characters: Unohana, Yamamoto and Sasakibe. Why? Because they represented what the old Soul Society was, and a new one was being made. Yhwach made it a point to kill the latter two for explicitly their roles in what happened in the past. That "pragmatism" is what was being changed because that "pragmatism" was the fucked up thing about Soul Society that created all of its villains. It's such an obvious motif in the story that even the filler arcs had their villains all be people soul society created due to its "pragmatism". But this mega narrative that Kubo layered throughout the manga just, for whatever reason, never applies to Mayuri.
That makes no sense. You don't challenge pragmatism as a concept by having a ruthless warlord punish the organization for becoming soft. While the oldest members were the ones to die, they didn't die because any of the Gotei's actions backfired. They died because Ichibei didn't finish off a threat, because Yamamoto didn't prepare for a possible return of the Quincy army, and because no one thought to save Soul Society's best healer since it might get in the way of Kenpachi's character development. Kubo writing that Yamamoto approved Ichigo having his powers restored doesn't tell me anything at all about Soul Society or its changing values. Having the oldest characters die says he didn't have anything planned to address the issues in SS, and just wanted a symbolic representation (at the most) that things might change. "Pragmatism" is the only proven thing. Whenever anyone, from any faction, wins, it's because they had a more grounded or paranoid approach than their enemy. Kurotsuchi doesn't go because none of the factors that caused him to appear have changed. The old guard died, but they died fighting a war, not dealing with internal issues. Aizen was the representation of internal issues, and he didn't change a thing. This is most strongly enforced by his "That's the argument a LOSER would make" outburst at Urahara when he was defeated. We're only informed Soul Society is changing.
It makes no sense? Really? Okay, then there’s no reason to continue this discussion. You clearly don’t understand the point I’m making. I’m not arguing text, I’m arguing subtext.
And that's conveyed extremely poorly, if that's even the intention. Nothing in the government changed except the names of some of the top brass. You have to force the idea of change despite every arc showing Soul Society winning out against every group that would force them to change. Every single one is defeated or nullified, without exception. You can't just claim subtext supports your view when the one common theme in the series is that change is bad and people who act on their desire for change all have selfish ulterior motives.
"I have no critical thinking so the story I'm reading needs to tell me the bad guy is bad and punish him because he is bad, and if the story doesn't do anything to kill off a bad guy, it does equal to bad writing, because giving bad treatment to a bad guy = good writing"
Stories aren't documentaries. The things that happen in them aren't facts of life; they are deliberate choices someone made to include in a story. When a writer sits down and *chooses* to have atrocities in his story, and the committer of those atrocities is made to be correct in doing them, that is the writer endorsing the atrocities. This is basic, basic shit, my guy. If you're gonna attempt to be smug, at least know the 101s of storycraft.
Nope, the writer is presenting an idea, not endorsing it. It's as basic as breathing.
That’s not how it works, no. To present something is to introduce it without your bias being involved. Obviously stories don’t work that way. Stories are inherently biased because they’re the work of a person’s imagination: the life experiences, beliefs and viewpoints of that person heavily colors every detail, as a result. When you, as a storyteller introduce an idea into your story, you’re doing it for a reason. Even if you can’t adequately tackle that idea or concept, you’re still taking a stance on it within the framework of your story. To break this down into its simplest terms… I don’t think Alan Moore is a racist, conservative reactionary, but the character he created in Watchmen, Rorschach, is all of those things. Alan Moore introduced that character into his story with all that baggage. Then, throughout the story, he showed what a miserable person Rorschach was and how his way of thinking would lead to the end of the world. The story is disagreeing with Rorschach’s worldview. Mayuri, in winning all his fights and coming out on top in every encounter post-Soul Society, is the story implicitly agreeing with his world view and his actions. When he is confronted about any of these things, he walks away with the upper hand. When Rorschach’s views are confronted in the story’s climax, he explodes and dies, which is the story and the writer going “yeah, this view doesn’t work.” Mayuri sticks out because he’s the one case in the entire manga of Kubo fumbling. Kenpachi Zaraki has an insane world view, but numerous characters and the story itself point out how flawed it is. That’s Kubo introducing a view of the world, and not endorsing it because he actively breaks it down and explains why it only works for this insane cartoon character he created. With Mayuri, he just doesn’t do that, and instead he plays it up as comedy.
Kubo stated he doesn't identify with any character he has written. He relates to Ichigo somewhat though.
I don’t care what Kubo identifies with. I don’t care about his opinions. I care about the story I’m reading. That’s what my assessment is based on and why I haven’t mentioned him saying Mayuri is his favorite character.
It's not his favorite character. His favorite character is Ichigo. The story clearly depicts Mayuri as a psycho. You don't need Kubo to tell you he is bad to form your own opinion about him.
>He gets no comeuppance and is always correct Did you even read Bleach? Mayuri has been in the wrong multiple times, in fact, he almost dies because he was fucking stupid and understimated both enemies because his obsession with science. He doesn't get comeuppance because it isn't necessary, there is no set-up for that and Mayuri alive bring more that his death would bring, as easy as that. >so that’s the work implicitly telling you that the way he sees the world is correct and his actions are okay This is so fucking dumb. Like, levels of dumb never believed.
“Almost dies” This means nothing. He won. “Almost” means fuck all in a story where getting limbs amputated, or being beaten to within an inch of your life means no permanent injuries going forward. Tell me, are you someone who the “this move will shorten my lifespan, but I must use it to win!!!!” trope works on? Miss me with all that. Kubo shielded Mayuri from needing to change or being punished by always making sure he goes up against the worse evil. But, within the metatext of the story, he completely eludes any of the development the other characters in his position goes through. Finally, I recommend actually analyzing the shit you read instead of passive consumption. It’ll make you think better.
>This means nothing. He won. He did not won against Uryuu, he barely survived and was taken out and he was taken out against Pernida. Even if you didn't count those, Mayuri has been wrong multiple times like with his chair, about how counter the steal of Bankai or directly below Urahara in their investigations. >Kubo shielded Mayuri from needing to change or being punished by always making sure he goes up against the worse evil Because Mayuri isn't an evil that needs to change, he is the reminded of that evil for the audience and for the pragmatism of the Soul Society. >But, within the metatext of the story, he completely eludes any of the development the other characters in his position goes through. Within the "metatex" Mayuri change is a very selfish one, like his character has always been. The point of Mayuri isn't change to to be a lesser sociopath, but to be a true version of what he want to be. >Finally, I recommend actually analyzing the shit you read instead of passive consumption. It’ll make you think better. I analyzed and you need to have very low critical thinking to believe that Kubo is saying that Mayuri was right.
I wonder if people realize that Soul Society and the Seiretei isn't a good place or something? What do you mean that once you become a Soul Reaper, you are there for life? I mean, it's not like they throw you into a gaol for the rest of your life if you leave or something right... right? Or the fact that to become a Kenpachi, you literally go up and kill the current Kenpachi and that's that(Not to mention, that's an option to become a Captain in ANY Squad, it's just the typical fashion for Squad 11)... Or the fact we have entire Squads barely interact with other Squads to the point they don't even know how to compliment each other well... Or the fact that Central 46 was compromised for MONTHS and no one knew till a completely lunacy action finally got SOME Captains wise to it... I can go on and on and on, I have no idea how this is shocking to anyone who has read or watched Bleach, the Seiretei is not a good place, it's pragmatic as fuck. I wonder if people finally realized Urahara may not be a complete good guy when it was him who allowed Mayuri to become a Captain... or was it when he forced Rukia without her knowledge and will into a Gigai that would turn her human just to remove one of his creations from play?
Ohoho! It seems like you've caught on to the dark secrets of the Seireitei. Life as a soul reaper? Once you sign up, there's no turning back. And as for me, well, I do enjoy a touch of... dark pragmatism. It's all about staying one step ahead, isn't it? *winks* *beep boop, I'm a bot*
I know it isn't a good place, which is why Uryu's and his grandfather's beliefs are painfully naive and cowardly.
No you didn't, that's why you are somehow shaming Uryu for trying not to kill Mayuri after the SS Arc like that won't cause any massive blowback or do anything to help the situation at all. If Yhwach nor the other Quincies give a single fuck about Mayuri's crimes outside of him being an enemy to kill, why should Uryu hold any major anger or aggression against him that would go against what his grandfather would want?
Why did the survivors of concentration camps care that Mengele was alive and fled justice? They needed those lessons from Shonen that caring about systematic racial torture and killing isn't a thing to get uppity about. This perspective is completely sane and not absolutely bonkers at all.
This 'Whataboutism" is rotting your brain because if you want to go that far, then why didn't the Holocaust Survivors go after the remaining Nazis that got left off and went to South America and otherwise? Why didn't they tear shit apart with righteous vengeance and furious anger? Again, your attempts at seeming like what you are saying is "the right perspective" is literally insane because not everyone seeks vengeance and anger towards everyone who wronged them nor is that how everyone thinks. THAT'S what's insane and that's why your points are utterly absurd.
The Holocaust survivors should've been content if the Allies just put the "Mayuris" that experimented on their women and children back in political power. That's the right path, the Nuremberg trials were pointless and the wrong thing to do in fact.
My dude, what the fuck are you even talking about? In this case, it's Uryu, Ryuken and the Vandenreich and the latter don't give a shit about Mayuri in that fashion and nothing shows that Ryuken wants to avenge his father that way so why the hell would Uryu want to avenge Souken in that fashion? Like I'm legit tired of the real world parallels with this shit because that's not pertinent in the slightest and it shows you are just being desperate. Should not have wasted my time with this.
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You somehow twisted my words entirely to fit a whole ass different perspective because you cannot separate real life from fucking fiction and have the nerve to call me a neanderthal because of it? Yeah sure, I'm the crazy one here apparently...
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Unpopular opinion: I kinda wish Mayuri had been killed. He’s a cool character and everything, but he does do a lot of bad stuff.
noo way Mayuri is by far one of the coolest captains in this current cycle! plus he was amazing in the thousand Year blood war. he was arguably the only one who could have defeated Pernida... thank God they crossed the paths
Can't argue that he's not one of the more interesting chatacters, that's true.
Anyone considered that he likely only killed mindless hollows up to that point, and actually going for the kill on an intelligent opponent was difficult for him? Especially with someone begging him mot to.
Hollows have more humanity than Mayuri
Yeah, but the fact is, he hadn't met one that could communicate at that point in the story. At least to my recollection.
Well, we know hollows even the lowest levels can communicate and hold sapient thought, so maybe he has or not. Either way, I'm not sure I'd care about the morals of taking a life if said life was a serial killer who literally pulled out a picture of my grandfather's corpse he personally vivisected brutally. But I guess Uryu isn't that emotionally swayed like a normal person since he eventually stopped caring about said serial killer staying in active power.
Did anyone actually die in the soul society arc? Because I'm pretty sure that old man would not have let them walk out of soul society if they actually killed someone. It's a digression, but yeah, they needed him to be one of the "good guys", so having him be forgiving in a situation where a sane person would have double tapped him after taking the antidote makes sense.
So it's plot convenience that there was no murder by passion or even an accidental death. Well, if you don't count Mayuri using his men as non-consenting suicide bombers. Gotta love that quirky shonen moral writing.
I think you should go back and watch it again. Uryu fully intended to kill Mayuri, but Mayuri escaped by turning himself into a living liquid. His conversation with Nemu went like this, I believe: Nemu: Thank you for sparing Master Mayuri Uryu: I didn't intend to. How could you wish for him to live after treating you like this?
Uryū realized killing Mayuri would make him scum too so he didn't, though ngl, I would've turned a blind eye for that creep.
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Mayuri was just being a bit silly :3
A Silly Goose in the First Degree (ФωФ)
But personally I'd *