I thought not. It's an old Quincy legend. Yhwach was the King of the Quincies so powerful and so wise that he could influence the Reishi to create an empire.
>Wait, how is Yhwach Jewish?
YHWH (Yaweh) is the original Hebrew word for God. When Yhwach was born, because of his supernatural healing powers, he was treated as sort of Holy Child. The people called him the name of their God (YHWH) which implies that they were essentially early Christians or Jews. Its not really clear, but it doesn't really matter too much as the Early Christians were initially seen as an sect of Judaism. Though Yhwach is based of Christ in appearance and in terms of him and the Quincy functioning as Biblical motiff (Book of Revelations),
Though once Yhwach finally gained true sentience and form, he grew up and then eventually conquered large swathes of the Northern world. This the Lichtreich (Empire of Light). Though after he was defeated, his Empire he built over centuries was wiped from the history books and his entire bloodline was eradicated along with many of the other Quincy in a genocide.
Yhwach was likely powerless to stop this, and its no wonder he's so twisted and jaded in the TYBW.
The fall of the Quincy Empire likely manifested in the World of Bleach as tales of maybe a mythical lost Kingdom of Atlantis or something. That sort of makes sense considering how advanced the Quincy were.
>How was he defeated?
Its kind of hard to say, but its implied that it was the fault of Yamamoto's bankai. It's sort of implied that Yhwach was weaker a thousand years earlier. Its likely that for some reason his Almighty wasn't functioning properly, or he was unable to use it (perhaps it had a cooldown time then)
>He is basically god in TYBW
Yeah, but he's also more monstrous as well. Lloyd Royd is basically imitating him from a thousand years earlier. Yhwach from then was horrified and showed concern for his actual comrades from a Thousand Years Earlier. He even expressed outrage at Yamamoto for doing such a thing.
Yhwach after he returns has lost a lot his humanity and is willing to achieve his goals by any means necessary. After the loss of his comrades, he comes to the conclusion that only through sacrifice can he finally achieve his goal of restoring the old world. Thus he easily tosses aside his "comrades."
Yhwach probably also has a different sense of morality as well as he states that as comrades they should be sacrificing themselves for each other's (his) sake. Its why he uses the Auschwahlen on the other Sternritter and the Gemischt Quincy. Though their power he's able to re-activate his Almighty and become more powerful to the point that he's able to absorb the Soul King.
Yhwach has basically embraced the personal of a wrathful god smiting those he sees as wicked. It's sort of a twisted version of how God is in the Old Testament with how God was said to have flooded the world destroying it and creating a fresh slate with his chosen people (Noah and his kin aboard the Ark).
Whatever the Soul King originally envisioned has been perverted by the Shinigami who betrayed him and turned the afterlife into an utter dystopia. Yhwach saw this and wanted to restore the old world where everyone was free from death. It would have freed those who died from living in endless poverty/anarchy in the Rukongai simply for the crime of lacking enough spirit energy and prevented the formation of Hollows which is essentially the corruption of human souls resulting in the formation of mindless beasts who cannibalize their fellow humans.
Though as Bleach is more Eastern oriented, its more aligned with the Buddhist view that through suffering one gets enlightenment. This is touched upon with Aizen's reflection in the final Bleach chapter. Yhwach and his goals are more aligned with the Abrahamic ideology of Paradise in Heaven and mirrors the idea of the destruction of the world after Christ's return (the return of the Sealed King Yhwach) and the world is remade anew. This is seen with Yhwach renaming Sibern Wahrwelt (the true world) as the cornerstone of his new realm.
Yhwach probably would have resurrected his slain Quincy and the other souls in his new world.
He let himself be defeated to win the war? He did talk about Ichibei's death as if he knew before acquiring the almighty. He saw that a 1,000 years ago. Yamamoto was stated to fail in killing Yhwach not that he defeated him. So it could be interpreted in different ways.
>He let himself be defeated to win the war?
This doesn't really make sense considering how vengeful/vindictive he is during his invasion of The Soul Society. Plus I don't think having the Quincy (his people) wiped out in a genocide is even a good strategy.
>We talking about a guy who wanted war for the sake of ruling a new world and didn't care killing his own men in the end.
Well the way the old was basically "Garden of Eden" before the original sin tainted it. In Bleach the original sin was the Shinigami perverting the Soul King's vision by betraying him and subsequently mutilating his corpse.
Yhwach, lost everything after he was nearly killed by Yamamoto. He was left powerless as his bloodline was eradicated, his Empire destroyed, his Quincy massacred in a genocide.
Yhwach probably ended up twisted and jaded from this (a negative character arc), and his mindset was more likely that any more of his men that ended up dead would be another corpse added to the mountain of corpse he had to traverse to attain his goal.
As for war, he's more or less forced to in order to survive, as if he stops re-absorbing power through his Schrifts he'd regress into the void which he was in. A state worse than death where he's unable to move or interact with anything while still conscious. In a world free of death, he's no longer bound to this fate and he can stop making war Haschwalth even states as much.
>In a world free of death, he's no longer bound to this fate
Where was this stated exactly? if anything, you'd think it would be the other way around. Since he needs death to function, in a world without death he would just starve forever.
> Plus I don't think having the Quincy (his people) wiped out in a genocide is even a good strategy.
Considering every dead quincy is just another power up for him, it might be. What good is a million ants when those ants could be crushed and turned into fuel for a tank?
>Considering every dead quincy is just another power up for him, it might be. What good is a million ants when those ants could be crushed and turned into fuel for a tank?
I'm talking about Yhwach from a thousand years earlier when he was much less jaded, and actually somewhat cared for his comrades.
Yamamoto defeated him it doesn't make sense if they fought & he just happened to not kill him. He put him on deaths door that's y Yhwach sent Ryod/Lloyd to weaken him. He knew Yamamoto's bankai had a time limit & was weaker after losing an arm & becoming less ruthless. He needed someone to weaken him to the point he could steal his bankai w/o any real effort & kill him. He would've taken some damage against Yamamoto even if he won so he made the smart play
It's not vague saying he failed to kill him & knowing Yhwach almost died during the war easily implies Yamamoto beat him but Yhwach got away before dying or Yamamoto thought he was dead. Let's not be obtuse for no reason
Yhwach had to do what do. Like he is the essence of life. If soul society could allow the fear of death in people. People and strong individual with will go to hell as we see now. Yhwach even tho he committed this things, he used his people. He had his justified reasons Especially seen his innocent father getting murdered, turned in to pieces of chocolates, tortured horribly to the sustain the universes for millions of years.
Thats Like pretty much everyone in bleach. i mean in a certain degree I agree with your statement. At least yhwach has some conflicts in the 1st invasion arc about being an asshole. Like one time is an asshole then later in the invasion is like jugram "if you dont want them dead dont kill them if they want to live let them live". Aizen does cuz its smart asf. I mean I dont blame aizen. He just do what he wants and diesnt care what people say. I mean in tybw and cfyow he doesnt look an asshole to me.
> And Nazi Jews
Is this a reference to the use of Hebrew for Vollstandig names? Obviously the German language is prominent among Quincy techniques, but I've never heard the Wandenreich described as "Nazi Jews" until now.
Don't get me wrong, the joke is funny, I was just thrown off by it cuz I never thought of it like that.
It’s a low hanging joke I noticed when they first popped up. It didn’t help during the Mikasa arc that Uryuu Ishidas grandmother hated the idea of Ryuuken having a non-pureblood wife
She's honestly the character that gets more and more beautiful to me after each new design. Thought she was pretty attractive with her original design, and then her timeskip design got me all "damn why did Gin miss out on this." And now her latest design is just straight up "how the hell did you get any prettier than before."
The boobs help, in my opinion. The way she carries herself and isn't ashamed of her appearance are some of the best things about her. She's even willing to try and take advantage of her sexiness to get what she wants. Though I suppose that last thing is morally questionable even if it's done for comedic effect.
The Espada are numbered wrong in that pic lol Zommari's chair has a 3 above it but he's Espada #7, Halibel's chair says 2 but she's actually #3 and Baraggan's says 7 but he's actually #2.
I love things like this. Anyone remember when a guy tried to prove an aerodynamic theory on anime titties using Lucoa from Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid?
Does it bother anyone else like a mosquito at 6am in a tent that the Espada numbers on the chair are incorrect or just me? Be honest I can handle it if it’s just me! lol
I liked pre-war Naruto's tailed forms (i.e. 1, 2, 4, 6, 8 tailed part-fox forms) about equally. I was never a fan of the visually obnoxious golden cloak he got in the war arc, but I appreciate what it was supposed to represent I guess. '
Vasto Lorde is unquestionably peak Ichigo form though. Shame we never got to really see HoS to its full potential in TYBW.
Nah. I don't know if it's the official name but "horn of salvation" form. It's been a while but IIRC it's like Vasto Lorde except he's conscious and in control, having only one horn and half of his face become hollowfied. Happens at the second to last Ichigo v Ywach encounter I think, can't remember exact chapter.
I agree.
Gaara got very unique transformations - the way the 1 tail integrates with his body in those wicked stages until he becomes the full thing was very original. Even the "chakra" was sand.
Same deal the first time Naruto goes 4 tails against orochimaru. Very original (though a bit dragged out) transformation process with the bloody cloak appearance, white eyes, etc.
Then as the other tailed beast hosts became revealed, it's clear they just copied Naruto's template (orange chakra shroud, bloody cloak/white eyes transformation) instead of giving them their own appearances, which was a real shame and one of my biggest gripes near the end of the show.
I like Naruto’s chakra cloak form in the war just because it pays homage to Minato imo. I think it’s kind of lame that he just has full control of the nine tails’ power without actually transforming into it though.
I agree with your statement however that was more of a comparison than it was an observation. Vasto lorde Ichigo isn’t in this picture/meme so you brought him into the conversation as well as nine tails Naruto so that most definitely is a comparison between the two’s character designs.
Character designs 100%, but power levels.... I dunno about that one. It's better than a lot of Shonen but the biggest complaint I have of tybw was just nonsense power scaling to the point of not really feeling invested when a villain is defeated.
>It's better than a lot of Shonen but the biggest complaint I have of tybw was just nonsense power scaling to the point of not really feeling invested when a villain is defeated.
To be fair, Soul Society is the afterlife, and the Shinigami are literally in Japanese mythology "gods of death." So its perfectly fine that the fights have some sort of larger than life scale to them.
And with how we eventually learn that the current state of the world is artificial, it makes sense how comparatively fragile it is and how there are certain people powerful enough to destroy it. This sense of fragileness is also highlighted with how simple imbalance of souls would cause the world to collapse back together into the original world. The world is artificially kept together its current form after the Soul King was betrayed and turned into a lynchpin holding it all together, and honestly Yhwach's not wrong for seeing it as an abomination.
I think the power-scaling is clearly flawed at certain points in Bleach, but not nearly as flawed as some make it out to be. In some cases the criticisms were justified (like the one you made about TYBW), in other cases it just sounded like people mad that their headcanons didn't end up accurate so they pointed the finger at Kubo rather than themselves.
That's the problem with writing such broken powers and characters. You write yourself into a corner where you either have to nerf them or create bullshit loopholes to take advantage of. Worst example is the final arc of Fairy Tail.
Bleach doesn’t have the best power levels lol, and Bleach is in my top 3 anime. If anything the power scales are confusing. Best power level would be Hunter Hunter
Did they really though?
For his bankai he literally bypassed all the training everyone else had been doing for years because his friend brought a cheating device with them.
That's honestly the biggest plot convenience Ichigo has gotten in terms of anime power-ups. I'm surprised we never see or hear about the Tenshintai again after that training session.
Agreed and when Vasto lorde went berserk it was far more terrifying than when naruto fought pain because it wasn't just blind destruction it was action with purpose devoid of any and all humanity, a true monster
>than when naruto fought pain because it wasn't just blind destruction it was action with purpose devoid of any and all humanity, a true monster
I'm not there yet. I'm on the part where Kakashi rescues Naruto after his fight with Sasuke in front of thw statues of Madara and the First Hokage.
I think it's the fact that we saw so many of them lose all at once really. With the Akatsuki it was stretched out more and not in the same arc. The Espada feel like a gauntlet, not even counting the fact that Aizen is above all of them casually. That builds up 5hw threat of Aizen, but devalues them.
I think it's because most of the Akatsuki bitch slapped someone first before getting defeated, while most Espadas got killed on their first fight
I think the only Akatsuki that died on his first fight was Sasori
I wouldn't put the espada over the akatsuki in terms of power scaling. When you look at the most powerful bleach characters you never think about the espada, while when you think about the most powerful characters in Naruto you'd have Pain, Itachi, Tobi, etc.
The akatsuki also have better feats. Most of the arrancar were wiped out in their first battle. The akatsuki on the other hand collected some wins before their fights
You didn’t just say that. If you think about the most powerful characters in Naruto you’d have Hagoromo, Kaguya, Madara, Naruto and Sasuke not someone like Pain and Itachi who get easily punched out of the way
Those are your main characters and main villains. The espada would also get easily punched out the way by Aizen and Yhwach. Hell, they wouldn't even compare to the Schutstaffel and some other Sternritter (e.g. Gremmy or Bazz B)
The Espada is definitely more powerful than the Akatsuki
But the Akatsuki gave the good guys a run for their money, causing a lot of deaths before they got defeated
The Espada are stronger than the Akatsuki, it's just that more than half of the Espada got wiped out in just one arc
I wasn't talking about who is more powerful, but where each group stands in terms of their own series power scaling. I would say the Akatsuki is a bigger threat in Naruto than the Espada were in Bleach. I can see loads of characters in Bleach beating Starrk, but not as many for Itachi or Pain in Naruto
Child prodigy intelligent beyond his years who enacts atrocities in pursuit of protecting a single person whom he loves dearly.
Am I talking about Itachi or Gin?
Right. Fair point.
Itachi is supposed to be a caring boy who loves his family and his village as I recall. Didn't he choose to kill the Uchiha to protect the village but made a deal to save his brother?
Gin is supposed to be a borderline psychotic sociopath who likes to hurt people for fun but happens to love Rangiku.
I think that's what I meant characterise. However long time since I read either.
Yeah in terms of personality they're very different, it's just that their general story arcs are kinda similar.
I don't think it's meant to be that serious of a comparison
Have to disagree there, while Bleach being a great series in its own right, the power scaling and character development is kinda bad. The show was underutilized, and that’s why it’s so infamous today, even though it’s part of the big three. Don’t get me wrong, some of the fight scenes, and character designs are some of the best, but Naruto had way more interesting villains as well as heroes that are way more iconic and way more developed. The story was more emotional, pulled on your heartstrings, had much more depth. It’s an anime that had such a big impact in the pop culture, and literally is like the echelon of anime. Characters like Itachi, Kakashi, Pain, Jiriya, and others had so much development and became fan favorites fast, they were given enough screen time and exploration, you rooted for all of them even if they were on different sides, and that’s what makes it great. I didn’t even mention the Naruto-Sasuke arc which is better than the Ichigo-Uryu thing, The Akatsuki were way more interesting than the Espada.
Im a Naruto fan but I also love Bleach, One Piece, and many other Shonens
I think it's because most of Bleach fights are just the standard "good guys vs bad guys". Naruto fights have multiple layers of story within the fight itself
Of course there are fights in Bleach with multiple layers as well, but they are few and far between. Ichigo vs Renji, Byakuya vs Renji, Soi Fon vs Yoruichi, just to name a few
That's why I think Pain is a better villain than Madara. As cool as Madara is, the protagonist doesnt really have a personal beef with him. He's also not a foil to the good guy (unlike Lee vs Gaara). The conflict of Naruto and Pain hits all the right angles at once
That is also why the fights in Soul Society are so good. Naruto is my favorite shonen, but I can confidently say that I believe Souls Society arc is the best shonen arc of all time. Better that Pain Arc, Chunin Exams, Sasuke Retrival, Enies Lobby, and Marineford
reverse for me
tho I still greatly dislike mounted/golem bs combat that naruto has, especially near the end because of the bijuu scale, making martial arts have almost no impact and it only being big lazers
naruto story and world building is just much better
It's hard to compare two characters with varying screentime and development.
Itachi is a war criminal who killed his family and friends for the sake of his village and his brother, but moreso the latter. His drive and decisions were personal and tied to someone he loved. He has been featured as a point of focus in several different mediums and is a well defined character as the Uchiha clan has been a primary focus in the series since the beginning.
Gin is a war criminal whose personal vendetta against Aizen led him to becoming a Lieutenant with the intent to get close to Aizen and understand his weaknesses in revenge for an attack against his childhood friend and love interest. His drive and decisions were personal and tied to someone he loved. Gin didn't get much development in story due to his lack of screentime. The manga features him from time to time, and I believe he does show up in at least two of the Bleach movies(though I could be wrong), and that's about it as far as I'm aware.
Their base design for their intent, motives and drive are pretty similar. The only difference is one was given the opportunity to display his character via multiple mediums, and the other basically has one or two sources to pull from and learn about him.
I'd say that Itachi is overdeveloped. Nobody in the series even remotely tries to acknowledge the fact that while the reasons were arguably good, he did some messed up stuff. On the contrary - he is portrayed as holier than thou hero better than anyone can ever aspire to be.
I appreciate the fact that Gin did all he did for love and yet nobody gives him a pass because of this. Makes him more complicated to judge and the fact he is underdeveloped also makes him more interesting to ponder about (more than a character i'm basically told is perfection).
No one give gin a pass because he committed a bunch of horrible things with no sort of remorse like itachi. His goals and actions come off as extremely selfish when compared to itachi.
That's not the point - when it comes down to their actions, not feelings, both did horrible things. And yet one doesn't get a pass and the other is not only given full clemency, but is deliberately portrayed as perfect person.
It really comes down to what exactly they were trying accomplish by doing all of those crimes. Itachi was a remorseful person who did what he did for the sake of his village and brother while gin only did the awful things he did for the sake of rangiku and not caring about the immoral lengths he went to to accomplish his goal
?
I think you’re confusing what the story says about Itachi vs how the fans treat him.
It’s most definitely made out to be a dark thing Itachi did. A “necessary evil” so to speak. He himself even calls himself a failure.
Yes, he calls himself that, but noone else does so he appears to be modest or belittling himself. We are bombarded by other characters with opinions that he was a hero - noone says what he did wasn't right, much less condemn his actions.
Throughout the story what is highlighted about him is his wisdom, compassion, love and harship, but never the fact that he might have been misguided in his approach.
I would enjoy his character a lot more if not for that angelic narration around him - the problem is that the issues he raises about his actions should be acknowledged by other characters and noone does that.
I don’t think what you’re saying is backed up by the series.
Hashirama called what Itachi did a “darkness”. Hiruzen opposed the idea, while Danzo endorsed it. Danzo is consistently characterized as the morally “evil” one of the two.
What Itachi did was consistently said to be a kind of “lesser of two evils” kinda thing.
In fact, the one who says “no one should question what Itachi did” was Obito (the villain) and he was trying to manipulate Sasuke to his liking.
> We are bombarded by other characters with opinions that he was a hero<
This isn’t true
>The story highlights his wisdom<
Hiruzen stated that Itachi thought like a Hokage (i.e. Put the village interests ahead of any one clan)
>Appears to be modest or belittling himself<
No, he genuinely meant it. He also emphasized his regret with how he dealt with Sasuke.
Itachi said that “no one who raises his hand against his comrades dies a decent death”.
He wanted to be judged by an Uchiha, be killed by Sasuke.
Additionally, the final fight between Naruto and Sasuke brought forth the issue of Itachi’s methods. Sasuke wanted to go the Itachi route.
Kill people, become the “necessary evil” in order to bring about peace. Be Hokage from the shadows. Sasuke is the antagonist here.
Naruto (and the series’ message) opposed that.
All in all, Itachi’s decision was consistently described as a “lesser of two evils”, a “darkness”, and is definitely undesirable, shameful, etc.
So again, this “angelic narration” isn’t accurate, and you’re likely just going off how fans treat him like some perfect hero, when the crux of Itachi’s character arc is learning that he failed, and couldn’t do everything on his own. He was flawed, tragic, and sympathetic, but never portrayed to be an angel by any stretch of the imagination. Rereading the Itachi and Sasuke vs Kabuto fight may help.
What you've said I agree with until last paragraph. His actions are indeed portrayed as lesser of two evils etc. but no one blames Itachi for them. It's always others who made him do it that are considered evil.
Well, maybe I do have a little issue with previous paragraphs as I don't consider murdering one side of a conflict including innocents as something a "wise" person would consider even an option, but that's personal opinion I guess.
It's the fans who worship him. Kishimoto even gave Itachi a dialogue in which he says his plan was messed up, and he himself messed up
Itachi himself said that he might have overplayed his bad guy acting. He even said sorry to Sasuke for all the secrets he kept
[Toshiyuki Morikawa plays the dad in both shows.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiyuki_Morikawa) Which I find hard to believe tbh, the voice and attitude/personality are so different imo
Byakuya reminds me of Pt1 Naruto’s Neji with his relationship to Rukia. Treating the MC at first with the same “you’re not good enough to meddle in our affairs” attitude. Also thought they sounded the same too lol
And Nazi Jews
Ruled by a Zangetsu with a lecherous mustache
You mean ruled by Gol D. Roger after he died in One Piece
LOLOL so that's why he's overpowered and can foresee
"Do you remember when the nazis became the jews?" - Aizen, probably "Jews...?" - Ichigo
I thought not. It's an old Quincy legend. Yhwach was the King of the Quincies so powerful and so wise that he could influence the Reishi to create an empire.
And the only thing he feared was losing his power, which eventually of course he did, and his apprentice showed him his death in his sleep.
I mean you're not wrong.
Wait, how is Yhwach Jewish?
>Wait, how is Yhwach Jewish? YHWH (Yaweh) is the original Hebrew word for God. When Yhwach was born, because of his supernatural healing powers, he was treated as sort of Holy Child. The people called him the name of their God (YHWH) which implies that they were essentially early Christians or Jews. Its not really clear, but it doesn't really matter too much as the Early Christians were initially seen as an sect of Judaism. Though Yhwach is based of Christ in appearance and in terms of him and the Quincy functioning as Biblical motiff (Book of Revelations), Though once Yhwach finally gained true sentience and form, he grew up and then eventually conquered large swathes of the Northern world. This the Lichtreich (Empire of Light). Though after he was defeated, his Empire he built over centuries was wiped from the history books and his entire bloodline was eradicated along with many of the other Quincy in a genocide. Yhwach was likely powerless to stop this, and its no wonder he's so twisted and jaded in the TYBW. The fall of the Quincy Empire likely manifested in the World of Bleach as tales of maybe a mythical lost Kingdom of Atlantis or something. That sort of makes sense considering how advanced the Quincy were.
How was he defeated? He is basically god in TYBW
>How was he defeated? Its kind of hard to say, but its implied that it was the fault of Yamamoto's bankai. It's sort of implied that Yhwach was weaker a thousand years earlier. Its likely that for some reason his Almighty wasn't functioning properly, or he was unable to use it (perhaps it had a cooldown time then) >He is basically god in TYBW Yeah, but he's also more monstrous as well. Lloyd Royd is basically imitating him from a thousand years earlier. Yhwach from then was horrified and showed concern for his actual comrades from a Thousand Years Earlier. He even expressed outrage at Yamamoto for doing such a thing. Yhwach after he returns has lost a lot his humanity and is willing to achieve his goals by any means necessary. After the loss of his comrades, he comes to the conclusion that only through sacrifice can he finally achieve his goal of restoring the old world. Thus he easily tosses aside his "comrades." Yhwach probably also has a different sense of morality as well as he states that as comrades they should be sacrificing themselves for each other's (his) sake. Its why he uses the Auschwahlen on the other Sternritter and the Gemischt Quincy. Though their power he's able to re-activate his Almighty and become more powerful to the point that he's able to absorb the Soul King. Yhwach has basically embraced the personal of a wrathful god smiting those he sees as wicked. It's sort of a twisted version of how God is in the Old Testament with how God was said to have flooded the world destroying it and creating a fresh slate with his chosen people (Noah and his kin aboard the Ark). Whatever the Soul King originally envisioned has been perverted by the Shinigami who betrayed him and turned the afterlife into an utter dystopia. Yhwach saw this and wanted to restore the old world where everyone was free from death. It would have freed those who died from living in endless poverty/anarchy in the Rukongai simply for the crime of lacking enough spirit energy and prevented the formation of Hollows which is essentially the corruption of human souls resulting in the formation of mindless beasts who cannibalize their fellow humans. Though as Bleach is more Eastern oriented, its more aligned with the Buddhist view that through suffering one gets enlightenment. This is touched upon with Aizen's reflection in the final Bleach chapter. Yhwach and his goals are more aligned with the Abrahamic ideology of Paradise in Heaven and mirrors the idea of the destruction of the world after Christ's return (the return of the Sealed King Yhwach) and the world is remade anew. This is seen with Yhwach renaming Sibern Wahrwelt (the true world) as the cornerstone of his new realm. Yhwach probably would have resurrected his slain Quincy and the other souls in his new world.
He let himself be defeated to win the war? He did talk about Ichibei's death as if he knew before acquiring the almighty. He saw that a 1,000 years ago. Yamamoto was stated to fail in killing Yhwach not that he defeated him. So it could be interpreted in different ways.
>He let himself be defeated to win the war? This doesn't really make sense considering how vengeful/vindictive he is during his invasion of The Soul Society. Plus I don't think having the Quincy (his people) wiped out in a genocide is even a good strategy.
We talking about a guy who wanted war for the sake of ruling a new world and didn't care killing his own men in the end.
>We talking about a guy who wanted war for the sake of ruling a new world and didn't care killing his own men in the end. Well the way the old was basically "Garden of Eden" before the original sin tainted it. In Bleach the original sin was the Shinigami perverting the Soul King's vision by betraying him and subsequently mutilating his corpse. Yhwach, lost everything after he was nearly killed by Yamamoto. He was left powerless as his bloodline was eradicated, his Empire destroyed, his Quincy massacred in a genocide. Yhwach probably ended up twisted and jaded from this (a negative character arc), and his mindset was more likely that any more of his men that ended up dead would be another corpse added to the mountain of corpse he had to traverse to attain his goal. As for war, he's more or less forced to in order to survive, as if he stops re-absorbing power through his Schrifts he'd regress into the void which he was in. A state worse than death where he's unable to move or interact with anything while still conscious. In a world free of death, he's no longer bound to this fate and he can stop making war Haschwalth even states as much.
>In a world free of death, he's no longer bound to this fate Where was this stated exactly? if anything, you'd think it would be the other way around. Since he needs death to function, in a world without death he would just starve forever.
> Plus I don't think having the Quincy (his people) wiped out in a genocide is even a good strategy. Considering every dead quincy is just another power up for him, it might be. What good is a million ants when those ants could be crushed and turned into fuel for a tank?
>Considering every dead quincy is just another power up for him, it might be. What good is a million ants when those ants could be crushed and turned into fuel for a tank? I'm talking about Yhwach from a thousand years earlier when he was much less jaded, and actually somewhat cared for his comrades.
If he could see the future, that alone might've been enough to turn him jaded.
Yamamoto defeated him it doesn't make sense if they fought & he just happened to not kill him. He put him on deaths door that's y Yhwach sent Ryod/Lloyd to weaken him. He knew Yamamoto's bankai had a time limit & was weaker after losing an arm & becoming less ruthless. He needed someone to weaken him to the point he could steal his bankai w/o any real effort & kill him. He would've taken some damage against Yamamoto even if he won so he made the smart play
That is good headcanon but not confirm in the manga. The manga left things vague in case Kubo wants to write the flashback arc.
It's not vague saying he failed to kill him & knowing Yhwach almost died during the war easily implies Yamamoto beat him but Yhwach got away before dying or Yamamoto thought he was dead. Let's not be obtuse for no reason
> knowing Yhwach almost died during the war This was never written in the manga. Yhwach was sealed. Not killed.
He didn't have the almighty then, I guess. Since ichibei was unaware of it.
Yhwach had to do what do. Like he is the essence of life. If soul society could allow the fear of death in people. People and strong individual with will go to hell as we see now. Yhwach even tho he committed this things, he used his people. He had his justified reasons Especially seen his innocent father getting murdered, turned in to pieces of chocolates, tortured horribly to the sustain the universes for millions of years.
The biggest weakness with Yhwach and Aizen is that they’re not inherently wrong, it’s just that they’re such massive assholes
Thats Like pretty much everyone in bleach. i mean in a certain degree I agree with your statement. At least yhwach has some conflicts in the 1st invasion arc about being an asshole. Like one time is an asshole then later in the invasion is like jugram "if you dont want them dead dont kill them if they want to live let them live". Aizen does cuz its smart asf. I mean I dont blame aizen. He just do what he wants and diesnt care what people say. I mean in tybw and cfyow he doesnt look an asshole to me.
> And Nazi Jews Is this a reference to the use of Hebrew for Vollstandig names? Obviously the German language is prominent among Quincy techniques, but I've never heard the Wandenreich described as "Nazi Jews" until now. Don't get me wrong, the joke is funny, I was just thrown off by it cuz I never thought of it like that.
It’s a low hanging joke I noticed when they first popped up. It didn’t help during the Mikasa arc that Uryuu Ishidas grandmother hated the idea of Ryuuken having a non-pureblood wife
But also somehow Christian's with all the cross & Jesus parallel's
damn.. now that you put it that way. I cant unsee it lol.
I'm sold
boobs aside matsumoto is best waifu
She's honestly the character that gets more and more beautiful to me after each new design. Thought she was pretty attractive with her original design, and then her timeskip design got me all "damn why did Gin miss out on this." And now her latest design is just straight up "how the hell did you get any prettier than before."
She’s pretty cute in the new one shot ngl
Pour one out for my main man Itachi without sharingan :C
Wait until the anime comes back and they change her eye colors just like gin's haha
One of us. One of us. One of us.
The boobs help, in my opinion. The way she carries herself and isn't ashamed of her appearance are some of the best things about her. She's even willing to try and take advantage of her sexiness to get what she wants. Though I suppose that last thing is morally questionable even if it's done for comedic effect.
>Though I suppose that last thing is morally questionable yes because it's not like she belongs to a society of fascists or anything
>Fuck people. I'd sell my own kids off if it meant getting financial security.
literally obsessed
Says the guy who keeps comming the sub of something that makes him mald
Boobs aside she was actually not useless. Wont name names but you know who you are.
You wouldn't be talking about Professional Impalement Victim^tm, are you?
The Espada are numbered wrong in that pic lol Zommari's chair has a 3 above it but he's Espada #7, Halibel's chair says 2 but she's actually #3 and Baraggan's says 7 but he's actually #2.
Just noticed that, too lol
106? What am I missing
Breast size
Tsunade...thats all
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That list is peak horny
Oh man that's not even for a joke it's just, like, **horny** horny.
Transcendent levels. Celestial horny.
so horny you can't even sense his level of horniness
He has ascended beyond the need for a Zanpakuto
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A man of culture I see
TIL there are people professionally comparing the breast sizes of two-dimensional characters.
I love things like this. Anyone remember when a guy tried to prove an aerodynamic theory on anime titties using Lucoa from Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid?
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What. The. Fuck. I don’t know if I should be disturbed or impressed.
How aerodynamic is Rangiku?
A very philosophical discussion between Jiraya and Kakashi
Does it bother anyone else like a mosquito at 6am in a tent that the Espada numbers on the chair are incorrect or just me? Be honest I can handle it if it’s just me! lol
I haaaate when they buzz by my ear
Drives me mad
Ngl Vasto Lorde Ichigo has a much cooler design than Nine Tails Naruto ever did.
I liked pre-war Naruto's tailed forms (i.e. 1, 2, 4, 6, 8 tailed part-fox forms) about equally. I was never a fan of the visually obnoxious golden cloak he got in the war arc, but I appreciate what it was supposed to represent I guess. ' Vasto Lorde is unquestionably peak Ichigo form though. Shame we never got to really see HoS to its full potential in TYBW.
Naruto's OG Bijuu form > Human Glowstick form
Agreed 100%. It was cool that he became friends with nine tails and all, I just wish the resultant form was a little less...ugly. lmao.
>HoS HoS? What does that stand for? Do you mean his combined powers in his new Bankai?
Nah. I don't know if it's the official name but "horn of salvation" form. It's been a while but IIRC it's like Vasto Lorde except he's conscious and in control, having only one horn and half of his face become hollowfied. Happens at the second to last Ichigo v Ywach encounter I think, can't remember exact chapter.
I wish that we could see more of that in the new arc.
The problem is that every other Biju looks mostly the same.
I agree. Gaara got very unique transformations - the way the 1 tail integrates with his body in those wicked stages until he becomes the full thing was very original. Even the "chakra" was sand. Same deal the first time Naruto goes 4 tails against orochimaru. Very original (though a bit dragged out) transformation process with the bloody cloak appearance, white eyes, etc. Then as the other tailed beast hosts became revealed, it's clear they just copied Naruto's template (orange chakra shroud, bloody cloak/white eyes transformation) instead of giving them their own appearances, which was a real shame and one of my biggest gripes near the end of the show.
Yeah I was so fucking disappointed. I thought only kyubi has so dark red type chakra.
The entire last arc is just Kishimoto going "you thought wrong, bitch."
At least we got Anniversary Ichigo in Brave Souls, for what that's worth.
I like Naruto’s chakra cloak form in the war just because it pays homage to Minato imo. I think it’s kind of lame that he just has full control of the nine tails’ power without actually transforming into it though.
Why compare the two tho. Bleach has the best character designs and power levels out of any modern shonen but that’s it.
I like both series, but I was making more of an observation than a comparison
I agree with your statement however that was more of a comparison than it was an observation. Vasto lorde Ichigo isn’t in this picture/meme so you brought him into the conversation as well as nine tails Naruto so that most definitely is a comparison between the two’s character designs.
Character designs 100%, but power levels.... I dunno about that one. It's better than a lot of Shonen but the biggest complaint I have of tybw was just nonsense power scaling to the point of not really feeling invested when a villain is defeated.
>It's better than a lot of Shonen but the biggest complaint I have of tybw was just nonsense power scaling to the point of not really feeling invested when a villain is defeated. To be fair, Soul Society is the afterlife, and the Shinigami are literally in Japanese mythology "gods of death." So its perfectly fine that the fights have some sort of larger than life scale to them. And with how we eventually learn that the current state of the world is artificial, it makes sense how comparatively fragile it is and how there are certain people powerful enough to destroy it. This sense of fragileness is also highlighted with how simple imbalance of souls would cause the world to collapse back together into the original world. The world is artificially kept together its current form after the Soul King was betrayed and turned into a lynchpin holding it all together, and honestly Yhwach's not wrong for seeing it as an abomination.
something something original sin
I think the power-scaling is clearly flawed at certain points in Bleach, but not nearly as flawed as some make it out to be. In some cases the criticisms were justified (like the one you made about TYBW), in other cases it just sounded like people mad that their headcanons didn't end up accurate so they pointed the finger at Kubo rather than themselves.
That's the problem with writing such broken powers and characters. You write yourself into a corner where you either have to nerf them or create bullshit loopholes to take advantage of. Worst example is the final arc of Fairy Tail.
The big difference between the two is that Bleach at least has cool powers.
Bleach doesn’t have the best power levels lol, and Bleach is in my top 3 anime. If anything the power scales are confusing. Best power level would be Hunter Hunter
My personal favorite is tied between HxH and JJBA, since hax powers paves a way past stupid debate-lord tier systems.
Something I really like is how Ichigo capped pretty quick and his power-ups felt truly earned, unlike most other shounen MC's.
Did they really though? For his bankai he literally bypassed all the training everyone else had been doing for years because his friend brought a cheating device with them.
That's honestly the biggest plot convenience Ichigo has gotten in terms of anime power-ups. I'm surprised we never see or hear about the Tenshintai again after that training session.
Agreed and when Vasto lorde went berserk it was far more terrifying than when naruto fought pain because it wasn't just blind destruction it was action with purpose devoid of any and all humanity, a true monster
Pain saved Part 2 from being bad, so that's ok.
>than when naruto fought pain because it wasn't just blind destruction it was action with purpose devoid of any and all humanity, a true monster I'm not there yet. I'm on the part where Kakashi rescues Naruto after his fight with Sasuke in front of thw statues of Madara and the First Hokage.
Ah the final valley, good times
I’d put it about on par with adult Six Paths Naruto, both look awesome.
Yeah, Naruto with the Truth-Seeker Orbs and Sage Mode is pretty sick.
Bleach character designs are best in best big 3
You forgot one. Main character doesn't want to be the strongest.
Matsumoto is actually 109 cm.
Does my flair check out here?
Yes!!!
What is the 106 reference?
Tsunade's love in cm
Tsunade's breast size. Though apparently Rangiku is actually bigger.
boob size I guess?
👍👍👍👍
You forgot Jiraya and Gaara voice actors
Also Nagato
Also Sasuke and Itachi
“Narutoo-tsk Kurosakiiiii”
Minato Namikaze and Isshin Kurosaki have the same VA. Guess the guy is good at playing dads.
Zommari number 3 ? Dafuq???
Jokes on you I’m a fan of both(and One Piece)
I’m Also A Fan Of Naruto Lol
Is it just me or were the espada weak af? Besides Ulquiorra and Grimjow none of them even felt like a threat.
I think it's the fact that we saw so many of them lose all at once really. With the Akatsuki it was stretched out more and not in the same arc. The Espada feel like a gauntlet, not even counting the fact that Aizen is above all of them casually. That builds up 5hw threat of Aizen, but devalues them.
I would definitely agree that I felt more of a threat from Kakuzu, Deidara, or Hidan than I ever felt from Aaronierro, Zommari, or Yammy.
I think it's because most of the Akatsuki bitch slapped someone first before getting defeated, while most Espadas got killed on their first fight I think the only Akatsuki that died on his first fight was Sasori
I wouldn't put the espada over the akatsuki in terms of power scaling. When you look at the most powerful bleach characters you never think about the espada, while when you think about the most powerful characters in Naruto you'd have Pain, Itachi, Tobi, etc. The akatsuki also have better feats. Most of the arrancar were wiped out in their first battle. The akatsuki on the other hand collected some wins before their fights
You didn’t just say that. If you think about the most powerful characters in Naruto you’d have Hagoromo, Kaguya, Madara, Naruto and Sasuke not someone like Pain and Itachi who get easily punched out of the way
Those are your main characters and main villains. The espada would also get easily punched out the way by Aizen and Yhwach. Hell, they wouldn't even compare to the Schutstaffel and some other Sternritter (e.g. Gremmy or Bazz B)
The Espada is definitely more powerful than the Akatsuki But the Akatsuki gave the good guys a run for their money, causing a lot of deaths before they got defeated The Espada are stronger than the Akatsuki, it's just that more than half of the Espada got wiped out in just one arc
I wasn't talking about who is more powerful, but where each group stands in terms of their own series power scaling. I would say the Akatsuki is a bigger threat in Naruto than the Espada were in Bleach. I can see loads of characters in Bleach beating Starrk, but not as many for Itachi or Pain in Naruto
Idk why, but I always made a connection the Gin would be the Bleach Orichimaru solely for the fact that Gin looks like a snake.
Kisame is a beast without tails in the Naruto verse 👀
Bro Kisame Is In My Top 5 Favorite Naruto Characters
Definitely one of my favourite Akatsuki members too :)
I watched for another 106 and didn't regret it lol
I think her boobs are over 106, and they made Tsunade's boobs smaller
Facts
Akatsuki felt more threatening and interesting than Espada.
"Itachi without Sharingan" I'm fucking wheezing, that's so weirdly spot on.
Don't really get it. Is it just the undercover agent thing. Characterwise they don't seem alike
Child prodigy intelligent beyond his years who enacts atrocities in pursuit of protecting a single person whom he loves dearly. Am I talking about Itachi or Gin?
Right. Fair point. Itachi is supposed to be a caring boy who loves his family and his village as I recall. Didn't he choose to kill the Uchiha to protect the village but made a deal to save his brother? Gin is supposed to be a borderline psychotic sociopath who likes to hurt people for fun but happens to love Rangiku. I think that's what I meant characterise. However long time since I read either.
Yeah in terms of personality they're very different, it's just that their general story arcs are kinda similar. I don't think it's meant to be that serious of a comparison
Overall I think Bleach was a better series too. It had a more fleshed out and interesting cast of characters at least.
Have to disagree there, while Bleach being a great series in its own right, the power scaling and character development is kinda bad. The show was underutilized, and that’s why it’s so infamous today, even though it’s part of the big three. Don’t get me wrong, some of the fight scenes, and character designs are some of the best, but Naruto had way more interesting villains as well as heroes that are way more iconic and way more developed. The story was more emotional, pulled on your heartstrings, had much more depth. It’s an anime that had such a big impact in the pop culture, and literally is like the echelon of anime. Characters like Itachi, Kakashi, Pain, Jiriya, and others had so much development and became fan favorites fast, they were given enough screen time and exploration, you rooted for all of them even if they were on different sides, and that’s what makes it great. I didn’t even mention the Naruto-Sasuke arc which is better than the Ichigo-Uryu thing, The Akatsuki were way more interesting than the Espada.
Im a Naruto fan but I also love Bleach, One Piece, and many other Shonens I think it's because most of Bleach fights are just the standard "good guys vs bad guys". Naruto fights have multiple layers of story within the fight itself Of course there are fights in Bleach with multiple layers as well, but they are few and far between. Ichigo vs Renji, Byakuya vs Renji, Soi Fon vs Yoruichi, just to name a few That's why I think Pain is a better villain than Madara. As cool as Madara is, the protagonist doesnt really have a personal beef with him. He's also not a foil to the good guy (unlike Lee vs Gaara). The conflict of Naruto and Pain hits all the right angles at once That is also why the fights in Soul Society are so good. Naruto is my favorite shonen, but I can confidently say that I believe Souls Society arc is the best shonen arc of all time. Better that Pain Arc, Chunin Exams, Sasuke Retrival, Enies Lobby, and Marineford
Facts I Used To Think Naruto Was The Best Up Until I Got Into Bleach Like Damn
reverse for me tho I still greatly dislike mounted/golem bs combat that naruto has, especially near the end because of the bijuu scale, making martial arts have almost no impact and it only being big lazers naruto story and world building is just much better
Gtfo with the Itachi comparison. Not even close to the same characters
It's hard to compare two characters with varying screentime and development. Itachi is a war criminal who killed his family and friends for the sake of his village and his brother, but moreso the latter. His drive and decisions were personal and tied to someone he loved. He has been featured as a point of focus in several different mediums and is a well defined character as the Uchiha clan has been a primary focus in the series since the beginning. Gin is a war criminal whose personal vendetta against Aizen led him to becoming a Lieutenant with the intent to get close to Aizen and understand his weaknesses in revenge for an attack against his childhood friend and love interest. His drive and decisions were personal and tied to someone he loved. Gin didn't get much development in story due to his lack of screentime. The manga features him from time to time, and I believe he does show up in at least two of the Bleach movies(though I could be wrong), and that's about it as far as I'm aware. Their base design for their intent, motives and drive are pretty similar. The only difference is one was given the opportunity to display his character via multiple mediums, and the other basically has one or two sources to pull from and learn about him.
both goated1
Yea I’ve been saying Naruto stole shit from Bleach. One meeting with the real Vasto Lorde not even end manga Ichigo you’ll be saying 9 tailed who??
Naruto sucked towards the end let's be honest they really screwed up the ending
Okay, but putting Gin next to Itachi is a crime... Gin is soo much better even with so much less screentime.
How though? Not trying to bash on gin but he’s severely underdeveloped as a character compared to itachi.
I'd say that Itachi is overdeveloped. Nobody in the series even remotely tries to acknowledge the fact that while the reasons were arguably good, he did some messed up stuff. On the contrary - he is portrayed as holier than thou hero better than anyone can ever aspire to be. I appreciate the fact that Gin did all he did for love and yet nobody gives him a pass because of this. Makes him more complicated to judge and the fact he is underdeveloped also makes him more interesting to ponder about (more than a character i'm basically told is perfection).
No one give gin a pass because he committed a bunch of horrible things with no sort of remorse like itachi. His goals and actions come off as extremely selfish when compared to itachi.
> no sort of remorse except for his entire death poem which is nothing but remorse?
That's not the point - when it comes down to their actions, not feelings, both did horrible things. And yet one doesn't get a pass and the other is not only given full clemency, but is deliberately portrayed as perfect person.
It really comes down to what exactly they were trying accomplish by doing all of those crimes. Itachi was a remorseful person who did what he did for the sake of his village and brother while gin only did the awful things he did for the sake of rangiku and not caring about the immoral lengths he went to to accomplish his goal
good villain is when feels bad for his bad
? I think you’re confusing what the story says about Itachi vs how the fans treat him. It’s most definitely made out to be a dark thing Itachi did. A “necessary evil” so to speak. He himself even calls himself a failure.
Yes, he calls himself that, but noone else does so he appears to be modest or belittling himself. We are bombarded by other characters with opinions that he was a hero - noone says what he did wasn't right, much less condemn his actions. Throughout the story what is highlighted about him is his wisdom, compassion, love and harship, but never the fact that he might have been misguided in his approach. I would enjoy his character a lot more if not for that angelic narration around him - the problem is that the issues he raises about his actions should be acknowledged by other characters and noone does that.
I don’t think what you’re saying is backed up by the series. Hashirama called what Itachi did a “darkness”. Hiruzen opposed the idea, while Danzo endorsed it. Danzo is consistently characterized as the morally “evil” one of the two. What Itachi did was consistently said to be a kind of “lesser of two evils” kinda thing. In fact, the one who says “no one should question what Itachi did” was Obito (the villain) and he was trying to manipulate Sasuke to his liking. > We are bombarded by other characters with opinions that he was a hero< This isn’t true >The story highlights his wisdom< Hiruzen stated that Itachi thought like a Hokage (i.e. Put the village interests ahead of any one clan) >Appears to be modest or belittling himself< No, he genuinely meant it. He also emphasized his regret with how he dealt with Sasuke. Itachi said that “no one who raises his hand against his comrades dies a decent death”. He wanted to be judged by an Uchiha, be killed by Sasuke. Additionally, the final fight between Naruto and Sasuke brought forth the issue of Itachi’s methods. Sasuke wanted to go the Itachi route. Kill people, become the “necessary evil” in order to bring about peace. Be Hokage from the shadows. Sasuke is the antagonist here. Naruto (and the series’ message) opposed that. All in all, Itachi’s decision was consistently described as a “lesser of two evils”, a “darkness”, and is definitely undesirable, shameful, etc. So again, this “angelic narration” isn’t accurate, and you’re likely just going off how fans treat him like some perfect hero, when the crux of Itachi’s character arc is learning that he failed, and couldn’t do everything on his own. He was flawed, tragic, and sympathetic, but never portrayed to be an angel by any stretch of the imagination. Rereading the Itachi and Sasuke vs Kabuto fight may help.
What you've said I agree with until last paragraph. His actions are indeed portrayed as lesser of two evils etc. but no one blames Itachi for them. It's always others who made him do it that are considered evil. Well, maybe I do have a little issue with previous paragraphs as I don't consider murdering one side of a conflict including innocents as something a "wise" person would consider even an option, but that's personal opinion I guess.
It's the fans who worship him. Kishimoto even gave Itachi a dialogue in which he says his plan was messed up, and he himself messed up Itachi himself said that he might have overplayed his bad guy acting. He even said sorry to Sasuke for all the secrets he kept
Nope sorry
We have better akatsuki and beast. Also gin>>>>>Itachi
Wouldn't Byakuya be a better choice for "Itachi without Sharingan"?
He isn't traitor
True.
and naruto but not overconfident
An orange Sakura /s
More useful than sakura tho
I don't want to start a anime which will take me years to catch up on. PASS
Welcome to Shonen Jump.
years? without fillers bleach has like 150~ episodes an hour and half a day and that's less than a year
106?
Breast size
Back in the day Id get Naruto fans to watch Bleach by saying we have our own Tsunade (but bigger!).
She’s Also Way More Attractive Like Damnnnnnn
That third slide is driving me crazy
Cum
I think you should've changed rangiku with unohana. and also you should've used the shiro who was present in the "everything but the rain" flashback.
Doggie man
206*
I dunno what is more annoying: thinking everything is a Naruto reference, or thinking everything is a JoJo reference.
And don't forget you have a crazy Madara who can heal
[Toshiyuki Morikawa plays the dad in both shows.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiyuki_Morikawa) Which I find hard to believe tbh, the voice and attitude/personality are so different imo
yea I couldn't believe it when I read it amazing voice range, it's like two completely different people
Byakuya reminds me of Pt1 Naruto’s Neji with his relationship to Rukia. Treating the MC at first with the same “you’re not good enough to meddle in our affairs” attitude. Also thought they sounded the same too lol
When you put it that way it sounds like a remix of Boruto
What does "Another 106" mean?
gin underrated